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Bernie Sanders Campaign Demands Wikipedia Take Down Images of Its Campaign Logos

Internet encylopedia felt the bern.

Internet screenshotInternet screenshotThe editors of Wikipedia, the Internet’s largest free encyclopedia, often work to include as many images as they can without running afoul of copyright laws. That’s accomplished through the use of public domain images, user-generated images uploaded to the site, and applying the fair use doctrine.

Lawyers for Bernie Sanders’ insist the encyclopedia has run afoul of copyright law by using images of various Bernie Sanders campaign paraphernalia in articles about Sanders and his presidential campaign.

Via Ars Technica:

"We also contacted the attorneys representing the Bernie Sanders campaign to discuss the issue, and they asked that WMF carry out a takedown in compliance with the DMCA rather than work with the community to update the licensing information or allow the images," wrote Wikimedia community manager James Alexander on a discussion page about the Sanders DMCA notices.

Observers have noted that it's debatable whether logos qualify for copyright protection at all. Even if they do, Wikipedia commentary about a political campaign seems like a crystal-clear example of fair use. Most of all, it's unclear why Sanders' lawyers think that removing their logos from a nonprofit site like Wikipedia would help the campaign.

Several logos were removed, including the "Feel The Bern" car magnet… which is sold for $10 at the berniesanders.com store. The takedown was publicized yesterday on Twitter by the Lumen Database (formerly Chilling Effects) and first noticed by Techdirt.

Ars Technica also reports that the DMCA notice wasn’t the work of an overzealous volunteer attorney, but rather someone from the same firm that represented Sanders in his lawsuit against the Democratic National Committee.

There is, of course, a libertarian case against copyright and intellectual property, and at the very least against the onerous regimes set up in the United States, and there is also a socialist case against copyright. Both perspectives are right in that copyright and other intellectual property laws are privileges granted by government. As Internet culture increasingly challenges the culture of intellectual property rights, it’s worth re-examining the laws on the books and asking how they could be reformed to limit government-granted privilege and limit the liability government then has to enforce the law regarding those privileges.

Copyright hasn’t been an issue on the campaign trail until now. What a rotten way to start, but maybe there’s a candidate who supports copyright reform and could use the Sanders campaign’s actions as a starting point for a broader discussion.

Photo Credit: BernieSanders.com

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  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Demanding your logos and imagry be taken down during an election cycle is always a great strategy. Keep that shit under wraps... protect your brand.

  • Agammamon||

    Its double-blind reverse psychology!

    "You know how those books and movies get all that press and attention when someone demands that they be censored? What if we demanded that our campaign be censored?"

    "Genius! Bernie Sanders will be on everyone's mind all the time!"

    "Yeah, as a moron."

    "Shut up Frank."

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    HOW MANY GODDAMN OUTLETS FOR YOUR CAMPAIGN DOES A PERSON NEED WHEN PEOPLE ARE STARVING IN LINE TO GET INTO RED LOBSTER?

  • Los Doyers||

    Have you had their biscuits?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    You know I only eat what I kill and prepare myself.

  • Los Doyers||

    A bonafide millennial Jeffrey Dahmer, eh?

  • commodious spittoon||

    Just because you "kill" a twenty-four pack of Natty Light...

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Do I look like I need light?

  • BigT||

    Book sales were boosted by "Banned in Boston" association.

    Bernie is just getting free publicity. But he's no Trump.

  • Agammamon||

    . . . there is also a socialist case against copyright.

    Someone should explain to Sanders that he didn't build that.

  • JW||

    It's always hilarious when professional thieves object to having their stuff taken.

    (SLD on copyright applies)

  • SQRLSY One||

    I want to copyright my $$$MONEY$$$ so that Bernie and the Commies can NOT take it away fro me!

  • JPyrate||

    The argument that only the state can enforce trademarks, and copyright is comedic.

  • JPyrate||

    And ironic.

  • Adans smith||

    Nobody needs 23 kinds of logos.

  • Acosmist||

    It's fair use. Seems odd to destroy property protections over it, when the laws as written don't support this.

  • Quincy.||

    The car magnets are a smart idea. More easily removed than traditional stickers and decals. Don't want to have Bernie supporters' sticker slathered trade-ins ending up in Syria in a few years time.

    "Feel the Bern, Infidel."

  • SIV||

    car magnets are a smart idea

    True

    "4 Doors For More Whores" is much better as a magnet than as a sticker

  • Tommy_Grand||

    awesome. plz send me that one

  • SIV||

    You can find the stickers online and at your local ricer shops. It would be much more popular as a magnet so you could display it selectively.

  • Sevo||

    With any kind of luck, he'll demand that news outlets stop using his name and call on the other candidates to join him in his courageous action!
    My candidate, Nobody, might end up with a chance; "Nobody for President" (logos freely available).

  • The Hyperbole||

    "Nothing last forever, Nothing is worth dying for" Vote Nothing!!!

  • MSimon||

    If it lasts forever no need to die for it.

  • Jerryskids||

    Nobody cares about you, Nobody takes you seriously. Nobody loves you, Nobody will take care of you, Nobody will fix all the problems in your life. Nobody will listen to your complaints, Nobody will make things right, Nobody will give you the things you deserve. Nobody can be all you've ever wanted in a candidate.

  • DenverJ||

    Genius

  • Sevo||

    Nobody deserves your vote!

  • Cdr Lytton||

    +1 Sylvia

  • PapayaSF||

    A favorite graphic: Vote for Nobody

    Hey Sevo, did you ever see the links I posted a week or so ago about the working model engines that sold at auction recently? It was a response to a model-related post of yours, but you didn't reply so I wanted to check.

  • Sevo||

    Papaya,
    Missed that, dammit.
    I was following the 'progress' of a model 24-cyl, H-pattern, sleeve-valve WWII aero engine, but the magazine that covered it every 6 months or so went out of business.

  • PapayaSF||

  • Almanian's Rusty Woodchipper||

    These are so fucking cool! I saw some that were Chevy V8's (SB/BB) and WWII rotary airplane engines. Ridiculous. They sound really cool, too..

    Thanks for the link!

  • PapayaSF||

    You're very welcome.

    Are you OK, by the way? People were wondering about your absence and your health.

  • PapayaSF||

  • Zeb||

    I've been tryin gto promote nobody for president for years now. Most people look at me like I'm nuts. But I think it would be worth seeing how things go for 4 years without a president.

  • DarrenM||

    I always like this:

    "Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?"

    http://www.cthulhu.org/

  • chemjeff||

    Do the good people of Reason generally favor copyright protections, and/or "fair use" exceptions to copyright protections?

  • Los Doyers||

    Who knows, Tulpa. Who knows.

  • chemjeff||

    Sheesh not this again. For the last time I am not Tulpa.

    I am politely asking a question, why do you have to do this?

  • ||

    Nobody has to do anything, Tulpy-Poo. It's just that you're universally reviled, so we like to.

    Lonely weekend coming up, huh, big guy?

  • chemjeff||

    You know, you are doing a pretty good job of driving someone away who is actually somewhat supportive of your point of view.

  • chemjeff||

    Last I checked, Libertarians could use all the allies that they could get.

  • ||

    You really are horrifically bad at this, Tulpy-Poo. A less insane person would have given up being a moronic punching bag long ago.

  • chemjeff||

    What would it take to convince you that I am not Tulpa?

  • ||

    You not being Tulpa. But you are, so...I guess you're shit out of luck, Tulpy-Poo.

  • Swiss Servator||

    PICARD: what is it you want, Q?
    Q: Your compassion. All right, Sanctuary on this ship, dreary as it may sound to both of us.
    PICARD: Return that moon to its orbit.
    Q: I have no powers. Q the ordinary.
    PICARD: Q the liar. Q the misanthrope.
    Q: Q the miserable. Q the desperate. What must I do to convince you people?
    WORF: Die.
    Q: Oh, very clever, Worf. Eat any good books lately?

  • JPyrate||

    The fact the you as a new poster know who Tulpa is, makes you a Tulpa sock.

  • SIV||

    There's few libertarians here. Mostly just cosmo-fags and trolls like you.

  • Swiss Servator||

    I beg pardon?!

  • Almanian's Rusty Woodchipper||

    I MISS YOU SWISSY! I hope all is well with you.

  • Almanian's Rusty Woodchipper||

    Aaaaaaaaand some glibertariarians and liberaltarians. Be fair, SIV.

  • ||

    Fuck off, Tulpa.

  • chemjeff||

    What is wrong with you people?? I am not Tulpa!

  • Wasteland Wanderer||

    Thing is, you argue like him, so whether you are or not doesn't really matter. It was Tulpa's dishonest methods of debating that got him disliked around here, and so far you're mirroring him to a T.

  • chemjeff||

    How do I argue like him? I am sincerely not trying to argue in bad faith. I asked an open-ended, not-leading question. How more neutral do I have to be?

  • Agammamon||

    Actually, your question only makes sense if you're here with no prior interest in or understanding of (small "l") libertarianism - or if you're trying to jerk people's chains.

    Libertarians regard IP protection . . . suspiciously, at best - as it is a *privilege* extended solely from government power (IOW - the monopoly on violence to coerce) and as such even the most pro-IP libertarians support 'fair use' exemptions to that protection.

  • chemjeff||

    I sincerely don't know what the prevailing libertarian view on intellectual property protections are.

    I can imagine that they are property-rights-based, since much of libertarian thought appears to be property-rights-based, which if they are, shouldn't seem to accommodate "fair use" exceptions (since there is no "fair use" exception to my rights over my real property).

  • ||

    You make a mistake in assuming there IS a "prevailing libertarian view".

    Ain't no two libertarians cut exactly from the same cloth.

  • ||

    Ain't no two libertarians cut exactly from the same cloth.

    So there are no identical twins that became libertarian?

  • Artifex||

    No the stronger one always kills the weaker one. Sort of like queen bees

  • Pathogen||

    Easements? Sidewalks? Mailbox? Parcel delivery?

  • Agammamon||

    Do the good people of Reason generally favor copyright protections, and/or "fair use" exceptions to copyright protections?

    Uhm, . . . yes.

    The recognition that IP protections originate from government power is *complementary* to allowing 'fair use' exceptions to that protection.

  • chemjeff||

    Finally, someone who isn't interested in calling me names!

    May I infer from your comment that you view intellectual property to be qualitatively different from real property? And if so, how?

  • Agammamon||

    OK - I'ma answer this but you really need to go do some research on your own. These are baaaaaaasic questions that I don't want to hash out yet again. Nothing against you except I've done this hundreds of times and the core concepts of (small 'L') libertarianism aren't exactly *occult* knowledge.

    Yes IP is fundamentally different from real property - I can take your car and you no longer have a car. I can take your idea for a better mousetrap and you still have the idea for a better mousetrap.

    I *personally* am not against IP protections - in theory. I recognize that a limited ability to monopolize the monetization of an idea is an incentive for people to come up with ideas that can be monetized. But 'fair use' exemptions are also essential as is a reasonable time-frame for this monopolization - 99+ years is just ridiculous and actually acts to *retard* innovation.

  • chemjeff||

    I suppose that depends on what you regard to be the "property" aspect of intellectual property. Does *the idea itself* constitute the "property"? If so, then it would seem to me that if you take my idea for a better mousetrap, you've committed theft just as much as if you had taken my car. It would seem to me that you instead regard the "property" aspect of intellectual property to be only the copy of the idea that resides in one's own head. Would that be a fair statement? Or perhaps I am just getting too hung up on the word "property".

  • Agammamon||

    But if I 'take' (read: copy) your idea - what do I deprive you of? You still have the idea.

    Do I take away your ability to monetize that idea? That's something that actually isn't your property, isn't a *right* of yours. You still have the right and the ability to put the idea out for sale - that's not been taken away from you, only being able to do so sans competition.

    The right of recognition for being the first with that idea - again, that's not actually a 'right', its a privilege granted under our IP protection scheme.

    Yes - you're too hung up on 'property'. We call it 'Intellectual Property' because we are usually discussing it inside the framework of IP protection schemes. Its the *scheme* that makes *property*. Intellectual property doesn't exist outside the IP protection scheme. Then its just an idea, an abstract. And you can't steal an abstract idea.

  • d3x / dt3||

    You can innovate retards? Details please!

    Can they still work in mines?

  • Agammamon||

    Retards are no good in mines. You dress them up funny and leave them on the front lawn to annoy the neighbors.

  • Bubba Jones||

    Because it is a government granted monopoly?

    Libertarians oppose both the patent on a drug, and the billion dollar regulatory burden in approving it.

    But you can't kill the patent before you kill the regulatory burden.

    Copyright is different. No regulatory burden there.

    But it would be odd to expect people to publish books if the Chinese printed knockoffs ten minutes after they were released.

  • commodious spittoon||

    As much as I want to argue against your being treated this way, I'm also pretty entertained by it. Does that violate the NAP?

  • Los Doyers||

    Depends, did you wake up?

    /runs

  • ||

    Seriously, Tulpa. Fuck off.

  • True Neutral Paladin||

    Don't know about "the good people of Reason", but:

    Against Intellectual Property by Stephan Kinsella

    PDF & audiobook are free.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Objectivity are adamantly pro, an-caps are necessarily anti, the ones in middle vary but almost always think the current system goes too far. It's not uncommon to hear people say that the initial copyright laws of the US were much more of a utilitarian measure to prevent free riding from stifling intellectual work vital to society's well-being, instead of a pure rent seeking measure.

  • ant1sthenes||

    *objectivists

  • ||

    'Do the good people of Reason generally favor copyright protections, and/or "fair use" exceptions to copyright protections?'

    As long as your guildmembership is in good standing.

  • DEG||

    OT: I stumbled on this video of John Stossel trying to get a gun permit in New York City.

  • DEG||

    OT: I'm rewatching this John Stossel special on healthcare. It was filmed in 2007 but it still an excellent show.

    The link goes to part one of six.

  • __Warren__||

    Since there was already no ethos I guess all that is left at the Wikipedia page is pathos.

  • ||

    I can TOTALLY see Sanders going ape shit socialist once in power. Beating up people and things and shit.

    Where is Alamanian by the way?

  • DEG||

    I hear Sanders commercials on the radio here in NH. When I hear that guy talk about what he wants, I think immediately of Zimbabwe under Mugabe.

    Some folks were talking about Almanian a few days ago. I saw the talk after the thread died. Someone, Old man with candy I think, is in touch with him. He would know more. I remember something about a health problem. Hopefully Almanian pulls through.

  • ||

    Man.

    I hope he's alright. Do please keep us informed!

  • DEG||

    I'm not in touch with him, others are, but I hope those folks do keep us informed.

  • Notorious UGCC||

    Yes

  • Swiss Servator||

    He was doing chemo... I am praying every day for him to come back and assume his rightful place beside Cthulhu on the Almanian!/Cthulhu '16 ticket.

  • ||

    Nut.

    Punch.

    You just put a dent in my night.

  • Los Doyers||

    He mentioned it a few times a few weeks ago, but he's terminal. I'm guessing he hasn't been around much because of the treatment and all that.

  • ||

    You guys are killing me with this news.

  • Los Doyers||

    He seems to be in good spirits, from what I can see on FB. If you're religious, I'd say pray for him. If not, keep him in your thoughts. Crap, something in my eye.

  • ||

    Oh, he will be.

    Thoughts and prayers.

  • ||

    Please contact me if you can.

  • commodious spittoon||

    Thoughts as well.

  • Notorious UGCC||

    Thoughts and prayers

  • commodious spittoon||

    Showoff.

    (I figure he'd be less indignant about a tasteless joke than he would H&R foregoing a tasteless joke.)

  • DEG||

    Terminal? Seriously? Shit.

  • JW||

    Yeah, but he's not going down without shitting in death's mouth beforehand.

  • DEG||

    That's the way to do it.

  • PapayaSF||

    Sorry to hear that. Best of luck to him.

  • Quincy.||

    Al, kick its ass.

  • d3x / dt3||

    My vote:

    He is The Best. The anti-Nikki, as it were.

  • grrizzly||

    I feel bad, I completely missed it. He's the only one I'd vote for. This year.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Me too, although I'm a little concerned with Cthulu being a heart beat away from the presidency. I don't think that quite fits with his "probably won't make things worse" campaign promise.

    Snark aside, my thoughts are with you Almanian.

  • Zeb||

    That sucks. Almanian! rules. He'll be in my... whatever it is that atheists do instead of pray.

  • chemjeff||

    I would imagine that some libertarians might consider the "fair use" exception for copyright infringements to be a form of theft. Is that the prevailing view here?

  • Notorious UGCC||

    I think the anti-copyright contingent is probably a majority.

    I can't think of anyone who thinks the copyright laws aren't strict *enough.*

    I'm for copyright protection, but I'm not a full libertarian.

  • Agammamon||

    I would say that is the exact opposite.

    And the article makes that abundantly clear.

    If anything, we consider *copyright* to be theft and 'fair use' to be some small manner of remediation.

  • chemjeff||

    Really? Hmm.

    How then is real property different from intellectual property from a property-rights perspective?

  • DenverJ||

    Because ideas aren't property. And where do you draw the line on what ideas are ownable?
    "look, i put a motor on a bicycle!"
    "that's so cool! I'm gonna do that, too!"
    "you can't, I thought of it first, anybody who wants to put a motor on a bicycle from here on out has to pay me or they can't do it."

  • Agammamon||

    Well, when you get into areas like "I've made this big wide-brimmed hat to protect my head from the sun" you'll find there are a *lot* of people who are all for not letting anyone else do the same in the name of preventing 'cultural appropriation'.

  • d3x / dt3||

    You better not have actually gone and made a wide-brimmed hat. I fear that you already have.

    You know who *else* wore a wide-brimmed hat?

  • Swiss Servator||

    Sulla?

  • Agammamon||

    Pancho Villa?

  • True Neutral Paladin||

    Odin?

  • ||

    "Because ideas aren't property."

    Yes they are. Ideas are self-replicating technologies, therefore property. On the other hand, if you don't want people to steal them, don't make your ideas self-replicating ideas.

  • Harold Falcon||

    Fuck off, Tulpa.

  • Swiss Servator||

    *wife off at own thing*

    *kids off and running around somewhere else after finals finished semester*

    *bottle of whisky and Blackhawks winning on strength of two Kaner goals*

    /LifeisOKforalittlewhile

  • DEG||

    Very nice.

  • DEG||

    Second beer time. Cabin Fever by New Holland. I like it better than the Gahan House Iron Bridge I had earlier, and that Iron Bridge is a good beer.

  • Swiss Servator||

    Iron Bridge is indeed good beer. I might have to look up that Cabin Fever, if you say it is better.

  • DEG||

    You can get Gahan House beer out by you? I didn't know they distributed outside of Canada.

  • DEG||

    Or you could have made a trip to Canada... silly of me not to think of that as I typed.

  • Swiss Servator||

    I should sample some New Holland...

    When I was ....poorer, Holland used to be part of the "World Tour" me and my friends could make....

    "We are going to Holland this summer" = Holland, Michigan

    "We are going to Germany" = Frankenmuth, Michigan

    "We are going to Switzerland" = New Glarus, Wisconsin.

  • ||

    it's a shame you guys never visited Paris, Texas for the culture.

    You could have stopped by Moscow, Texas for the night on your way back home.

  • Swiss Servator||

    Yeah, I have been to Canuckistan a couple of times the past while :)

  • DEG||

    I have some Canadian coworkers. I told them I was amused at the distribution regions of brewers and winemakers in the Maritimes. "New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Alberta", "Nova Scotia and Alberta", "Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, and Alberta". "blah blah blah, and Alberta". My Canadian coworkers laughed and said, "Think of Alberta as Canada's Texas".

  • Swiss Servator||

    "Think of Alberta as Canada's Texas"...

    THEY HAVE GOOD BBQ AND COLLEGE FOOTBALL?!?!?!?!?!?!

  • DEG||

    Probably no BBQ but they might have good hockey.

    One of those coworkers recommended I visit Banff. If I decide to go back to Canada (three of five times I've been to Canada the border guards have harassed me and I'm getting tired of it), Banff will be high on my list and I'll find out how similar Alberta is to Texas the hard way.

  • Swiss Servator||

    Hmmmm... I have never had trouble at Canadian border. Now, coming back from Afghanistan after a year.... I thought the Navy pukes inspecting us on the way out were going to insist on rectal exams...

    All I know about Banff, is that their University had a rugby club, and they stomped the shite out of my club back 20 years ago. They were polite about it, FWTIW.

  • DEG||

    I have to say, one of the two decent crossings into Canada, the border guard was a good looking French Canadian woman. I swore she was flirting with me.

    Interestingly enough, I've never had major problems getting back into the USA. The worst crossing was driving back into the US from a trip to Quebec. I crossed at the Derby, VT crossing. I had lots of booze, far over the tax free limit.

    To help make an early start back to the US, I had packed all of my stuff into two bags so I only had to make one trip to my car from my hotel room. I put the bottles of booze in my socks or wrapped the bottle up in a shirt, and then shoved them all into my two bags with the rest of my dirty clothes.

    The US border guard was in a bad mood but got happier when I answered his question about how much booze I was bringing back. He wanted me to open my trunk. I opened it. He walked around the back of my car, paused a moment, and then he slammed my trunk shut. He came back to my window, handed me back my passport, and in a pissed off tone of voice told me I was free to go.

  • ||

    Alberta has a strong university football tradition with the Dinos and Golden Bears.

    Now Quebec is dominating.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrills

  • ||

    Banff and Jasper are staggeringly beautiful.

    Alberta has a cowboy culture.

  • Swiss Servator||

    BWAHAHAHAHA - Patrick Kane hat trick vs. Maple Leafs.

    This whisky is going down good....

  • ||

    Guy in first place in my hockey pool has Kane.

    I'M IN SECOND. Needless to say I hate Kane.

  • Swiss Servator||

    There are reasons outside of pools to hate Kane.

    He excels when he is dry... a few more years and he could drown himself in beer and poontang, but he seems to wobble back and forth between extremes.

  • Derpmaster General||

    He's a grade A cunt and managed to not register a shot on net in 2 penalty shots last olympics. 2nd or 3rd worst player on the team easy.

  • R C Dean||

    In my experience, wearing pants when crossing the border reduces harassment. Give it a try.

  • Zeb||

    Isn't Alberta cattle country? THey must have some kind of barbecue.

  • DEG||

    No third beer. I'm going to sign off, read a bit, then go to sleep. Wild night at my place!

  • Agammamon||

    As a wise man once said - nothing is more annoying than the love of a child.

    http://dadholes.tumblr.com/

  • Swiss Servator||

    My kids are right in the sweet spot - oldest can drive, they like to do a few things with the parents, but mostly prefer to be with friends. No stupidity involving cops so far, so they have learned something from me...

  • DenverJ||

    That's a great site, thanks for the link.
    "If my wife were a Christmas movie, she be The Bipolar Express." That's great!

  • commodious spittoon||

    *narrows cantankerousness*

  • Swiss Servator||

    *pours two fingers of whisky for c. spittoon*

  • Swiss Servator||

    *notes aforementioned c. spittoon has not taken whisky, so takes instead and slams down...notices Blackhawks now up 3-0 and smiles a complete cheese eating grin*

  • Swiss Servator||

    Oops, dammit. 3-1.

    *goes for more whisky*

  • commodious spittoon||

    I'm enjoying a drink my brother's bartender girlfriend/baby mama mixed up, featuring gin, soda, Pimm's, and muddled cucumber. It's quite good, although I'd love a measure of whiskey. Peatier the better.

  • Swiss Servator||

    +1 Ardbeg Uigeadail

  • Swiss Servator||

    Or is that Laphroaig Quarter Cask?

  • commodious spittoon||

    I'll be honest: my tastes are unrefined. I have had Ardbeg 10 year, and I very much enjoyed it, but I couldn't tell it from Smokey Joe which was my go-to because it is (or was) very affordable. When I graduate and have some cash to throw at proper alcohol, I'm going to develop a proper palette. Till then, all I know is I love the peat.

  • Raven Nation||

    My girlfriend loves the peat and her current favorite is a Lagavulin 16 year. It makes Christmas fairly simple for me.

  • commodious spittoon||

    I have major trust issues with alcohol: I don't trust I won't just swill away a pricey bottle. But I'm working on it. Before we split my ex bought me a bottle of sipping tequila which I made last three or four months.

  • Swiss Servator||

    which I made last three or four months

    Mr. spitoon....you have, discipline. That is good.

  • Raven Nation||

    CS: see if any of the local bars or liquor stores do tastings. We've got a couple of places where I live that do so and that's how I figured out what I like. They usually charge $50 and you get 8 tastings (about half a regular serving each). It's a little pricey but better than buying individual servings in a bar.

  • Swiss Servator||

    oooh, Lagavulin is GOOOOOD!

  • Zeb||

    Lagavulin is great. Ardbeg is my other favorite for very peaty whisky. Laphroaig comes close. Actually, I haven't encountered very many Scotch whiskys that I don't like.

  • MSimon||

    Hockey is sticky.

  • ||

    "There is, of course, a libertarian case against copyright and intellectual property,..."

    My mind, body and conscience belong to me, and thus the product of my labor, mind or body, belong to me.

  • Agammamon||

    Certainly. However *my* money doesn't belong to you - you have no inherent right to *make money* off your ideas. You certainly have the first right to control dissemination of that idea. But once you've disseminated it you have no right over how *I* think about it or how I *use* it.

    And you have no right to control those who independently come up with the same idea.

    *Those* are the things IP protections address.

  • Jerryskids||

    If you build a thing, I cannot take it from you. But if I see that thing you made, decide I would like one as well and make my own, is that stealing from you? I have used your idea, but you still have your idea and I did not take the idea directly from you, I took it from looking at the thing itself which you made. It seems to me close to an argument that if you have a lovely garden I cannot walk by and admire it for I am somehow stealing from you by taking pleasure in your hard work. You don't want people looking at your stuff and borrowing your ideas, keep them to yourself.

    I can see the practical argument for limited patent and copyright as an incentive to create new things, however. But the limit shouldn't be until Mickey Mouse has made his last buck. You come up with something new, yay you! have some money!, but now it's not new any more so let somebody else have a crack at making a new and improved model.

  • Notorious UGCC||

    This pun-filled article describes the theft of a sculpture of Abraham Lincoln's hand from a museum in Kankakee, Illinois. The sculpture was by George Grey Bernard.

    The one pun the articles omitted was that the thief took a hand out.

  • Swiss Servator||

    To further spread good feeling - I had a very nice encounter with.....a cop! Actually a young sheriff's deputy (an advantage of a 1/2 suburb, 1/2 farm county). My kid blew a tire and got stuck on side of road during snow storm....wife took him home while I waited for tow truck. Deputy pulls up, hits lights...I think "oh, sit, now what". he very politely asks if I am OK, offers to call tow truck but tells me he is not sure the cost would be anything less than high - when I told him I had called one, he said to please tell the tow truck driver that there was another car off the road (bad night) and he should go south, so he would not get stuck trying to get around the next accident. He said good night and moved on.

    /small ray of hope

  • Raven Nation||

    I'm trying to improve my attitude toward cops. I figure assuming they're all bastards is an unsavory group accusation. That said, I refuse to return to my former ways of trusting all cops.

  • Swiss Servator||

    From my experience of 5 years as a prosecutor.....alone, many cops will be OK. In a group, the worst will drive the dynamic. If you are around more than one cop, it is "yes, sir. No, sir. Three bags full." or you might have a problem....

  • Raven Nation||

    Good advice. One of the points I make to people is, if cops really wanted to improve their image, they wouldn't draw the thin blue line around one of their own who has done something abusive or criminal.

  • Tommy_Grand||

    good point

  • Wasteland Wanderer||

    I think it's very much a department by department kind of thing. I don't think a good cop lasts long in a department that puts up with and protects bad cops; the incentives will either turn him into a bad cop or drive him out of the department or profession.

  • Swiss Servator||

    In our county - it is the "drives them out" thing.

  • ant1sthenes||

    They're people acting under a set of social dynamics that tempt most people into being bastards, and appeal to people who already are bastards. But it doesn't technically mean that everyone will be a bastard.

    Also, a lot of them are more bastard-enablers than active bastards. If the guy who pulls you over shoots you, they'll cover for him, which is why he thought he would get away with shooting you, but they won't mess with you themselves.

  • Zeb||

    I would go so far as to say that most cops, at least on their own, are reasonable and decent people. But the risk they pose is still high enough to be wary of any of them. Then there is the fact that just about all of them would arrest you for drugs or other victimless non-crimes. Which to my mind is an utterly immoral and evil action not excused by "just doing my job". If you don't refuse to enforce those laws, you can't be entirely good and be a cop.

  • Harold Falcon||

    Most cops are terrible people. There's a reason they have a high suicide rate.

  • DenverJ||

    I believe sheriffs deputies tend to be more professional, because their boss has to answer to the voters. Somebody argued against the sheriff model of policing a few days ago, saying that idiots like Arapaio shows that local voters shouldn't be able to vote for sheriff. Of course, the person who made that argument is not somebody I usually agree with.

  • Swiss Servator||

    Around here - Local cops vary widely. My town...OK. South end of the county....brrrrr. Sheriff deputies around here tend to be the small town fellas - and they have to go look their fellow folk in the eye at the diner, the bar, the softball field, etc. Draw your own lessons from that...I am too happy right now and slowly getting drunk.

  • ||

    Make sure that you county sheriff is an Oath Keeper.

    That is very important as one's county sheriff is the only LE that stands between you and the King's Men.

  • Zeb||

    I would think that it goes both ways. In a relatively safe place where people want to be left alone, it probably works well to keep law enforcement behaving better. In more urban situations, like Joe Arpaio, you are probably more likely to see people voting for someone who will brutalize all those criminals and immigrants because more people will assume that they won't likely be on the receiving end.

  • Jerryskids||

    Why?

    Almost certainly a Fair Use and I can't see any harm to the campaign by getting its images out there - and plenty of harm by picking this sort of fight, greedy bastard 1% lawyers trying to screw the little guy who's just trying to provide a public service by using some sort of "rich guy" government monopoly law just so he can add another buck to his bank account. I don't think that's the look you're going for there, Bernie. What happened to all the "share the wealth"?

    Is Wikipedia owned by the Koch Brothers or something? That's about all I can think of for why the Sanders campaign would do something that seems this pointless and petty and stupid and doomed to failure.

  • Sevo||

    Posted late in the AM links and didn't get to the PM:

    "Obama Administration Wants to Spend $4B on Self-Driving Cars"
    [...]
    ""We are bullish on automated vehicles," said Foxx, flanked by auto executives at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit. "
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/obama.....d=36298745

    The UAW supports this message!

  • GILMORE™||

    ""Obama Administration Wants to Spend $4B on Self-Driving Cars"

    FTFY

  • Sevo||

    And this from the folks who brought you Solyndra!

  • PapayaSF||

    A friend of mine got some of that Solyndra money, doing some graphic design for them.

  • Swiss Servator||

    *opera applause*

  • Robert||

    This is as retarded as when Parker Bros. wouldn't let a hotel advertise the Monopoly tourney they hosted.

  • Robert||

    So they called it Monotony on their marquee.

  • Sevo||

    When the EU outlawed cigarette adverts on race cars, one of the Brit teams (sponsored by Benson and Hedges) redid the rear wing in exactly the same font: "Buzzard and Hornets".
    It's amazing how most everybody read Benson and Heges.

  • Robert||

    Jean P. Shepherd told a story of someone who homemade a nice inlaid wood version of the board, & the 1st time playing it w friends, after a while someone vaguely sensed something odd about it, but couldn't quite put a finger on it. Eventually the discrepancy was discovered: "MONOLOPY". (Like the Kansas City Chefs in the Snickers ad.) So they started calling it that, & w house rules it became a slightly different game from Monopoly.

  • PapayaSF||

    +1

  • Sevo||

    When I was a mere yute, folks would have a local talent 'pin-stripe' their car, with perhaps some lettering. A guy in the 'hood had a '54 Chev (I think) with "Blue Angle" in cursive on the dash.

  • commodious spittoon||

    No regrats.

  • Robert||

    Well, of course, it was a blue, wedge-shaped car, wasn't it?

  • Robert||

    https://podfanatic.com/podcast/the-brass-figlagee
    /episode/1975-12-17-monolopy-edit-1

  • Sevo||

    That's been there since 2010?!

  • Robert||

    Have you been looking for a lot of Shep archives?

    The original telling of the Monolopy story was said to have aired in 1965, and somebody's streaming that from somewhere too, maybe the same free archive.

  • commodious spittoon||

    One (maybe dubious) benefit to being a live-in uncle: mom and dad hand off kid for me to annoy awake because he's been asleep all day. One of the only opportunities I can be casually cruel and not feel at all bad about it

  • straffinrun||

    Don't be stingy. Favorite method?

  • commodious spittoon||

    Oh, tickle torture. He's barely three months and I'm terrified of being strangled by my sis-in-law, who's a very anxious first-time mother. But I have a repertoire of tortures thanks to his dad, for when he grows older.

  • straffinrun||

    You'll make a fine Uncle.

  • Wasteland Wanderer||

    Heh...my brother was almost a live-in uncle, but he got the fuck out when he learned our sister was pregnant. He was already spending way too much time caring for my sister's dog, and I think he was afraid of it ending up the same way with the kid.

  • Sevo||

    I'm admitting up front that I have no knowledge that the government(s) caused this problem, but it just seems so big a fuck-up that it's hard to imagine otherwise.
    So as one of the commentariat mentioned WRT the State of Jefferson, I'm betting that the one or the other broke that leg and is now acting as a hero by lending you a cane:

    "Gov. Snyder asks Obama for federal aid in Flint water crisis"
    [...]
    "Snyder's letter to President Barack Obama paints a bleak picture of the troubled city, describing Flint as an "impoverished area" that has been overwhelmed by the release of lead from old pipes — the result of using the Flint River as the city's drinking water for 18 months."
    http://www.sfgate.com/news/med.....760644.php

    At least there's some hope:
    ""Mistrust in government is at a heightened level," Snyder, a Republican, said in a request"

  • commodious spittoon||

    So cauliflower is, like, so hot right now. I hadn't noticed any drastic change in price, but I haven't, like, bought any recently. So I wouldn't, you know, know.

  • commodious spittoon||

    When my sister (not my sis-in-law) was pregnant with her son, she had a dream about thinking up a name for her son. She thought "Kohl.... Kohl Rabi! How cool is that!" and felt really dumb when she woke up.

  • MSimon||

    Rabbi Kohl.

  • straffinrun||

    I posted something similar a few days ago, but I'm having a hard time convincing my 23 year old niece that $1.5 billion is the same as $1.500000000 billion. I've even tried explaining that 1 and 1.00000000000 are the same. I recommend staying out of my gene pool.

  • d3x / dt3||

    Well, they do differ considerably in the number of significant figures. The "1.500000000 billion" represents a more precise measurement. So she's not wrong per se.

    Or maybe she's just a dumbass. This is left as an exercise to the reader.

  • straffinrun||

    Doubt she was thinking of that, but that's why we come here. :) Well actually...

  • straffinrun||

    Since I'm fucking around on a dead thread: http://www.metalinjection.net/.....lable.html
    They should've put a giant growth on the bottle. Lemmy!

  • d3x / dt3||

    I'm not dead yet!

  • Sevo||

    Good bizz day here, some bourbon and waiting for the rain. Certainly not dead.

  • straffinrun||

    Cheers, kompai, salut.

  • Sevo||

    l chaim!

  • Sevo||

    And why not a pony?
    If you ever took flying lessons, you could fantasize going cross-country in one of these:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1IM6nXsdQc

  • Rockabilly||

    Feel the Bern's fingers in your wallet

  • d3x / dt3||

    Ew.

  • Swiss Servator||

    Gah?!

  • d3x / dt3||

    "That's not my wallet"

    "And that's not my finger"

    Yuk yuk.

  • hurts_donut||

    Everyone knows this election will be decided on weather or not Bernie is for or against foreskin. Obviously, the most pressing issue of our time. Also, buffalo wings, breaded or non breaded and we all know where a fuckin commie would come down on this one.

  • Notorious UGCC||

    If Sanders doesn't have a foreskin then, being a socialist, he'll make sure that nobody else has one.

  • hurts_donut||

    Bernie Sanders doesn't have a foreskin anymore, but he's conflicted. He opened the door and the jack boot commies are standing in front of him and hes pouring sweat hoping they don't hear his old foreskin scratching words into a composition diary in the attic.

  • Notorious UGCC||

    Don't drink the whole bottle at once, man.

  • hurts_donut||

    Thanks for the heads up.

  • hurts_donut||

    *old foreskin that he hid

  • Rational Exhuberance||

    It may be against socialist principles, but since Sanders is a fascist, that isn't an issue for him.

  • Agammamon||

    Uh - socialists *are* fascists. That's a core principle of socialism. Everything for the state, everything in the state, nothing against the state.

  • Rational Exhuberance||

    While both socialists and fascists are totalitarians and statists, they are still different ideologies. Think of it this way: Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are all monotheistic religions, but they aren't the same religion.

  • hurts_donut||

    Anybody vaping? Have you found a decent ejuice supplier?

  • hurts_donut||

    The online vendor I have tried is giant vapes http://www.giantvapes.com

    Buddy of mine said he orders from https://www.thevapeshack808.com

    Other than that i have been buying local

  • sunsky resort||

    ok. i like this post.

  • Steve G||

    Nothing yet from reason on the supposed imminent demise of bitcoin? Or did I miss it...

  • AlmightyJB||

    ?

  • PapayaSF||

  • AlmightyJB||

    Thanks

  • gphx||

    Bernie thinks Wikipedia displaying a .png of his campaign logo is using up his stack of bumper stickers.

  • PapayaSF||

    "I keep putting this into the fax machine, but it just keeps coming out again! It must be broken."

  • MoreProgressiveThanYou||

    What kind of socialism is this, everything free except campaign images???

  • AlmightyJB||

    I demand people stop talking about me!

  • aliciakelley786||

    my friend's half-sister makes $77 /hour on the computer . She has been laid off for 7 months but last month her income was $12280 just working on the computer for a few hours. browse around this web-site

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  • Rational Exhuberance||

    It's item number 23 on Sanders' political program:

    We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press
  • Agile Cyborg||

    Filing haze in this godamn room is thicker'n alley dreams filled wid blood guitar ghosts.

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