MENU

Reason.com

Free Minds & Free Markets

ISIS Claims Responsibility for Paris Terror; French President Hollande Declares He'll Be "Unforgiving with the Barbarians"

Death toll in the coordinated series of attacks now at 129; Syrian refugee reported among attackers.

The New York Times sums up the latest on the Paris terror attack aftermath:

President François Hollande blamed the Islamic State for the terrorist attacks. Officials said Saturday night that the death toll had reached 129 victims, with 352 others injured, 99 of them seriously. Mr. Hollande declared three days of national mourning, and said that military troops would patrol the capital. France remained under a nationwide state of emergency.

perceptions (mostly off) / Foter.com / CC BY-NCperceptions (mostly off) / Foter.com / CC BY-NC

“It is an act of war that was committed by a terrorist army, a jihadist army, Daesh, against France,” Mr. Hollande told the nation from the Élysée Palace, using an Arabic acronym for the Islamic State. “It is an act of war that was prepared, organized and planned from abroad, with complicity from the inside, which the investigation will help establish.”

Mr. Hollande did not specify what intelligence pointed to the militant group’s involvement. On Saturday, the Islamic State claimed responsibility for the attacks, but its claim could not be independently verified.....

Mr. Hollande vowed to “be unforgiving with the barbarians from Daesh,” adding that France would act within the law but with “all the necessary means, and on all terrains, inside and outside, in coordination with our allies, who are, themselves, targeted by this terrorist threat.”

At least one attacker has been linked to the wave of Syrian refugees:

A French security official said separately that one of the attackers had been linked to a Syrian passport. A Greek official had said earlier that the person carrying the passport had passed through Greece last month along the migrant trail into Europe.

The investigation has already extended beyond France:

The police raided a neighborhood in Brussels in connection with the Paris attacks, and made a number of arrests. A Greek official said that a Syrian passport used by a migrant who had passed through the island of Leros was found on a body at one of the attack sites. And in Germany, the police were exploring whether a man they arrested last week with weapons in his car and his GPS navigator set for Paris was linked to the attacks.

CNN on Obama being upbraided for his very bad timing in declaring ISIS "contained" just before this attack.

The BBC's ongoing live updated page on the Paris terror attacks. The same from Associated Press.

UPDATE: One unnamed U.S. intelligence official suggests to CBS News that the Syrian passport linking one terrorist to the refugee stream is fake.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  • Cytotoxic||

    There's a report that a guy was stopped in Bavaria several days ago with a kilo of TNT and 'professionally hidden' guns in the car. They police were tipped off.

  • RAHeinlein||

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

    David Burge ‏@iowahawkblog 6h6 hours ago
    Curious; has there ever been a terrorism conference canceled due to climate change?

  • Atanarjuat||

    That's easy. Terrorism is *caused by* climate change. Inflames their swarthy tempers, you see.

  • SoCal Deathmarch||

    If we can supply the world with $15 per hour Green Energy jobs we can kill two birds with one stone.

  • ||

    And it can be funded by the 1%! Just like free college educations.

  • Pan Zagloba||

    Holy shit, now that's thinking! Conference is back on, boys.

    Luckily, Bolivian government has prepared a detailed plan for achieving all the goals.
    Trigger Warning: PDF.

  • ||

    Let me guess, it involves large sums of money to be paid to Bolivia?

  • Pan Zagloba||

    Are you psychic?

    But also, it includes gems such as

  • Pan Zagloba||

    oops, tag ate it:

    Decolonize natural resources environmental colonial biased views that see the peoples
    of the South as forest rangers of Northern countries and communities as enemies of
    nature.
  • thrakkorzog||

    For those who don't speak gibberish, it basically translates as bolivia can cut down all the rainforests it wants and all the hippies out there should shut up.

  • Win Bear||

    That's probably what it said in the original before they translated into the language of the SJWs. So you're just translating it back.

  • Intraveneous Woodchipper||

    Freaking brilliant. Thank you lol

  • Zeb||

    I've got it! The terrorist were employed by oil companies to shut down the climate change meeting.

  • Zeb||

    I've got it! The terrorist were employed by oil companies to shut down the climate change meeting.

  • EMD||

    What's a terrorism conference?

  • EMD||

    What's a terrorism conference?

  • ||

    Well, according to the SPLC, the DHS and certain thin-skinned judges, there is a terrorism conference every time we all debate, post, read, lurk, glance or otherwise not-not-enjoy sardonic remarks about the State on reason.com

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

    Think ISIS may make itself useful someday and attack the lines in front of Krispy Kreme that are blocking traffic on Westheimer?

  • SIV||

    Yankees still line up and wait for doughnuts? I've never understood this. It isn't like you didn't have your own local and regional doughnut shops before Krispy Kreme moved into your market.

  • ||

    Houstonians. Due to a fight betwen the previous franchise owner and the company, as I understand it, Houston has been a donut desert. Well, they have donuts, but not 1000 calorie, zero nutrient magic donuts like Krispy Kreme. Until a week ago.

  • sasob||

    Isn't Shipleys still in business?

  • ||

    They are here in San Antonio. Dunkin' Donuts returned to the city, too. Krispy Kreme? You can have 'em. HEB makes better donuts than KK.

  • Atanarjuat||

    What would a sensible, effective French retaliation look like? Special Forces-style strike killing a bunch of ISIS assholes and leaving as quickly as they came? Random killings with drones, Obama-style? Interminable prosecutions like the Guantanamo prisoners?

  • Drake||

    Now they'll only admit 75,000 "Syrian" "Refuges". Take that ISIS!

  • wareagle||

    would a strongly-worded memo work? I am reasonably sure that doing nothing will not result in any change.

  • Robert||

    Going by the logic of the short story "The New Kid", the most satisfying thing would be to terrorize some other innocent people, because that's the only way to get into a position analogous to the attackers.

  • Agammamon||

    Talking. At great length. Until you agree to do whatever they want if they'll just shut up.

  • commodious spittoon||

    That's taking place *next* week.

  • MarkLastname||

    I just got word France, together with Italy and Greece, are going to line the Mediterranean coast with giant fans to blow all the migrant boats back in the direction of North Africa and the Middle East.

  • american socialist||

    The brand of libertarianism common in the comments is essentially a reactionary one. If there's an attack-- roughly comparable to those routinely committed by nut jobs in the United States-- out come the "libertarians" who are willing to close the border or, worse, go to war in the ME for a French terror attack. I say that Those who would give up liberty for freedo deserve neither. That's an original quote from moa in the same way that certain Rand Paul speeches are original with him.

  • Cytotoxic||

    "Those who would give up liberty for freedo deserve neither."

    What?

  • Atanarjuat||

  • Cytotoxic||

    Well that was random.

  • Atanarjuat||

    That's an original quote from moa

    Take it up with American Communist.

  • american socialist||

    "Freedom". A typo. Gees he. Add excitable to reactionary.

  • Cytotoxic||

    That's not why it's stupid.

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    You don't prefer liberty to freedom? You really are a neocon.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Perfect.

  • Agammamon||

    Keep in mind that to people like AS there is a difference between freedom and liberty.

    Liberty, to these people, is the ability to go about your life as long as its within the (supposedly broad, but we've seen how power likes to be exercised too many times to believe that it won't be narrowed.) limits allowed by your government. As long as you stay within those lines you'll be taken care of - in whatever manner the government deems fit.

    Freedom is living with the fear of failure and having to deal with the consequences of your actions.

    To them its solely the difference between a being a feral dog and a dog bred to be carried in a purse.

  • american socialist||

    The idea was to make fun of people who fail to attribute and then go ahead and mangle the thing they were plagiarizing. Maybe it went over your head

  • d3x / dt3||

    Talk to the moa.

  • Number 2||

    I know not course others will take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me FREEDO!

    (Hey.... Isn't it's supposed to be about trading liberty for security? Just sayin'...)

  • lap83||

    No, he meant to say "no one deserves freedom or liberty"

  • Agammamon||

    Call it, freedo.

  • Bern-o-Matic 5000||

    FREE DOUGH!!!!

  • Atanarjuat||

    Freedo shot first.

  • Michael||

    Can freedo melt steel beams?

  • RAHeinlein||

    GREEDO can't melt steel beams, Barbara!

  • jester||

    Who is the freedo bandido?

  • EMD||

    Freedo Khala has no eyebrows.

  • Suicidy||

    Freedo? Is that Greedo's brother?

  • XM||

    "Those who would give up liberty for security deserve neither."

    That's what he meant to say, although I'm sure he doesn't actually understand what it means.

    Amsoc and his two buddies who post here make it their business to paint libertarians as hypocrites. They'll often assign libertarian support to random / distorted positions made up in their minds.

    No one's actually argued for closing of the borders. Most commentators here aren't for open borders though, and were universally against accepting refugees. But that's akin to border fanaticism to the trolls.

  • Cytotoxic||

    "No one's actually argued for closing of the borders."

    Actually the yokeltarians are pretty warm to this 'option'.

  • Tommy_Grand||

    You're thinking of Rob Lowe

  • ||

    The full yokels have been more than warm to it. They've been gleefully trying to see which of them can be the most disgusting.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    "WHYCOME DOES YOKELS NO LIKE DUH RAPE GANGS?"

  • wareagle||

    so nothing should be done and hope is your recommended method of resolution? Sure, that'll work.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Nice strawman. "If you oppose my stupid and immoral ideas/precepts then you just want to do nothing!"

    This is how butthurt mouthbreathers argue.

  • wareagle||

    in two days, all you have done is yammer about the wonder of open borders as though they are the solution to everything. They're not and in the case of Europe, they are proving harmful. At some point, it helps to take a harder look at your premises.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    It's simple: kill all the bad guys over there and bring the remainder here. What don't you understand?

  • Lawless Heathen||

    Well, to be fair, they forgot to allow the populace to arm itself.

  • Marshall Gill||

    This is how butthurt mouthbreathers argue.

    It is all you have got. Don't worry, it isn't like anyone here could have a lower opinion of you.

  • Suicidy||

    Yes Cyto, and people like me, with intelligence and wisdom vastly superior to yours. Also my charisma score is higher as well.

  • ||

    I think he was trying to make a LotR reference regarding Sam and his surrendering of his personal freedom when he joined up with FRODO on the trek to Mordor. Neither liberty nor security in that whole situation, the borders of Mordor being what they were.

  • Cytotoxic||

    If only those borders had been open, Mordor would have been freer sooner.

  • BigT||

    "Those who would give up liberty for freedo deserve neither."

    Fredo Corleone?

    Frodo Baggins?

    Make up your mind.

  • Brian||

  • The online me||

    I think I can solve the puzzle but I am going to spin the wheel one more time.

  • F. Iron-Ass Stupidity, Jr.||

    Those who would give up liberty for freedo deserve neither.

    Was Freedo Michael's brother, or the green guy that Han Solo shot?

  • Cytotoxic||

    I get it! Han Solo = Liberty, so AmSoc is coming down on one side of the 'who shot first' debate.

  • Jerry on the rocks||

    Talking about Han Solo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkg-KTXxLJ8
    Also princess Leia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpf8O6NYvA0
    They look so refined! (at least Fisher does)

  • Agammamon||

    Christ, Ford is *so* Indiana with those glasses on and that pose.

  • ||

    There are smokers in that studio! There was no trigger warning about 3rd hand smoke!

  • F. Iron-Ass Stupidity, Jr.||

    roughly comparable to those routinely committed by nut jobs in the United States

    This attack killed what, 170, 180? I don't think Dylann Roof, James Holmes, and Adam Lanza killed 1/10th that many combined.

    Other than that, you are as correct as always.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Er there was the OKC bombing but that was a while back. Breivik is more recent.

  • F. Iron-Ass Stupidity, Jr.||

    I assumed he was referring to recent events. It's my mistake wondering what the hell he's ever talking about.

  • wareagle||

    and OKC was an event that went unreplicated, was not done in the name of any religion, and the perpetrator was executed in record time. Totally the same.

  • Cytotoxic||

    I wasn't saying 'it was the same' but just trying to make sense of what AmSoc said. Futile task.

  • Intraveneous Woodchipper||

    Funny how the Left was ok with killing a rightwing nutjob in record time

  • dantheserene||

    OKC was one bomb by one guy, so other than having a roughly similar death toll, not very comparable.

  • Procrastinatus||

    Plus the US has a population of 4.5 times that of France. Per capita this would be like if radical Muslims gunned down about 580 people.

  • Brochettaward||

    Those who would give up freedom for 'free' shit, however, are members of the intelligentsia.

  • Intraveneous Woodchipper||

    ^Savage.

  • Agammamon||

    out come the "libertarians" who are willing to close the border or, worse, go to war in the ME for a French terror attack. I say that Those who would give up liberty for freedo deserve neither.

    The first part of this shows you don't know what the fuck libertarianism is about. The second part is just incoherent. Without freedom, you *have no liberty*.

  • Suicidy||

    Of which comparable attacks do you speak?

  • american socialist||

    OKC. Some of the shootings at college campuses. BTW, in the U.S. You're much more likely to die at the hands of some right-wing extremist than you are at the hands of an Islamic extremist-- although I will say I find the two ideologies kissing cousins.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06......html?_r=0

  • Procrastinatus||

    Ha ha ha. Look at the random stuff this guy googles up. Do you even spend two minutes to think about what you post? Classic Leftist.

    "Since Sept. 11, 2001, nearly twice as many people have been killed by white supremacists, antigovernment fanatics and other non-Muslim extremists than by radical Muslims: 48 have been killed by extremists who are not Muslim, including the recent mass killing in Charleston, S.C., compared with 26 by self-proclaimed jihadists"

    So if we totally forget for some reason the 3k people killed by Muslim extremism on 9/11, and start counting on 9/12/2001, the count complied by a progressive center is twice as many killed by non Muslim extremists than Muslim?

    OR you could say that since 9/11 Jihadists have killed only 22 less people than all other radical ideologies combined. Gee I wonder what that number would look like compared to gang violence of progressive US cities?

    If it's so easy to pull the wool over you eyes, you really are hopeless.

  • Suicidy||

    OKC is the only one that's close. And this one is much bigger. Lone deranged nuts don't count. Nice try though. Thanks for playing.

  • MarkLastname||

    " those routinely committed by nut jobs in the United States"
    Huh? Pretty sure the last time an attack this big happened in the US was 9/11. Or are you referring to the fantasy world of yours where Koch bros funded right wing terrorists are blowing up skyscrapers every weekend? Get a grip, fella.

  • Win Bear||

    out come the "libertarians" who are willing to close the border

    Libertarians generally believe that borders should be open... once we restore freedom of association and eliminate the welfare state. Until that time, the question of immigration is not a libertarian one. Personally, I favor an increase of skilled immigration, while generally penalizing and deporting illegal migrants.

    worse, go to war in the ME for a French terror attack

    Libertarians didn't want to go to war in the ME before the French terror attack, and they certainly don't want to do it now.

    The brand of libertarianism common in the comments is essentially a reactionary one.

    It's been a while that a socialist has called me "reactionary". Of course, you're just a fake, but the thought is still appreciated: thank you!

  • Cytotoxic||

    Thank God that asshole Harper isn't PM anymore. I was ambivalent before but if he were still in charge he would shamelessly use this incident to advance his police state. We got C-51 from a single guy getting shot in Ottawa I shudder to think what would happen in response to this. "You either where the Child-Tracker 2000 or you're with the terrorists."

  • BigT||

    Fermer la frontiere Quebec, non?

  • MarkLastname||

    Hmm? PM? Oh, right, you mean governor of Canada. Sorry, sometimes I forget you North Minnesotans think you're a real country ;)

  • Suicidy||

    If you consider that lightweight Trudeau and improvement, the. Your sense of judge,emt is in question.

  • Wizard with a Woodchipper||

    The "Peace Sign Meets Eiffel Two" image really misses the mark by a wide margin. Of course peace is desirable, but as Hollande has finally acknowledged, France is at war, and there will be no peace until one side loses. That side will be ours unless we begin taking the appropriate steps.

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

    Peace requires two sides. Conflict only requires one.

  • BigT||

    "Conflict only requires one."

    Only if one is fighting oneself. You meant Conflict only requires one to act

  • Mrs. Lemuel Struthers||

    France is at war, and there will be no peace until one side loses.

    This is delusional. There's no winning when 1)you're fighting your own citizens 2)you're enemy moves and morphs through wide regions of the world 3)you haven't got the military or financial means to engage in protracted conflict, not to mention the stomach for it 4)you still can't bring yourself to name the enemy accurately.

    The French won't win shit.

  • wareagle||

    #4 is the most puzzling problem. The first step toward fixing a problem is identifying it. How silly Obama looks for first, his assessment yesterday of ISIS being contained and second, for his response to this that also ignored the enemy's identity.

  • Cytotoxic||

    4) Well the enemy is ISIS and AQ and maybe some other groups. They've been named.

  • Mrs. Lemuel Struthers||

    and maybe some other groups

    like who exactly? Right.

    A swing and a miss.

  • MarkLastname||

    I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at. I agreed with your earlier post, but I was thinking about it in the sense that a war on terrorists is like a war on crime; it's only really a war in a metaphorical sense. The 'enemy' isn't a single entity, a nation or even an organization.

    And there is certainly no country you could invade that could rectify the problem. But there's no reason they shouldn't make a point of going around and finding whatever particular individuals were involved and killing them (sure they could bring them to trial alive, but I just assume most of them aren't eager to be taken alive).

  • wareagle||

    Obama keeps insisting otherwise. Just yesterday, he proclaimed ISIS as "contained" and I don't see Trudeau is a profile in much beyond idiocy.

  • Res ipsa loquitur||

    You doubt the lightbringer's word ? What possible evidence is there that Isis isn't contained in iraq\syrua there smart guy ?

  • Atanarjuat||

    That Russian airliner they brought down?

  • Pan Zagloba||

    Look, that was totally a Mossad false flag operation! ISIL is c o n t a i n e d!

  • MarkLastname||

    I'm still waiting for the Russian response to that one. A Russian invasion of Syria would be a great way for ISIS to get dealt with and for the US and Europe not to have to be the bad guy.

  • Intraveneous Woodchipper||

    Wondering about this. Would it also be Bush's fault if this happened? Anyway the Ruskies are soooo good about following the spirit of the Geneva convention. Would be nice to see the barabrian Islamofascicts get a taste of their own deraved medicine.

  • Wizard with a Woodchipper||

    Where did the terrorists who perpetrated yesterday's massacre come from? Your first point suggests that they were citizens of France. Right now, reports indicate that they came from elsewhere--so far, Syria and Egypt have been identified as countries of origin. So, they were foreigners. One thing the French could do is stop importing huge numbers of Muslims from these and similar regions in the world.

    As to your third and fourth points, you're right. France is broke and they are still living in denial to certain degree, although Hollande's remarks are encouraging. But those points don't change the truth of what I said, which was: the French are at war and they need to take the appropriate steps in order to win it. We'll see what happens next.

  • wareagle||

    hang on a minute and cyto will be along to tell you why your first idea is a non-starter.

  • Suicidy||

    No more Muslims.

  • Slammer||

    The peace sign is the footprint of a chicken. It's also an inverted cross with the arms broken down toward Satan. That's what the preacher used to say. He also didn't like KISS, and Dungeons & Dragons

  • Suicidy||

    Your preacher probably wasn't more than a 3rd level cleric. So he's took it out on Gary Gygax.

  • SoCal Deathmarch||

    Headline:

    France Feels The Sting Of Workplace Violence

  • Suicidy||

    +1. And I'm using that one at the gym tomorrow when I talk to the guys.

  • Cytotoxic||

    I've noticed that the part of the attacks involving explosives killed way less people than the part carried out with guns. Unless it's true that explosives were being hucked around the Bataclan but that's a different environment than the suicide bombings at an entrance McDonald's.

  • Wizard with a Woodchipper||

    From my reading of the papers, terrorists at the Bataclan used automatic weapons to gun down at least 87 people; about 40 were killed in the explosions at other sites, but a good deal were left wounded there, too.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    The suicide bombers had tickets and tried to get into the stadium but were detected by security. They detonated outside the stadium.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Well that's good. Still surprising that they didn't kill more people.

  • SIV||

    They must not teach improvised FAE weapons in vacation Koran school.

  • Tejicano||

    Setting off explosions in the middle of a large crowd can kill more people from the stampede than from the actual explosion.

  • Res ipsa loquitur||

    Explosives in confined areas amplify the effects. It was fortunate that the explosives appear to have been detonated outside, inside a small area packed with people the death toll may have been much worse.

  • MarkLastname||

    Good thing they don't teach physics at whatever madrassa these guys went to.

  • sasob||

    Imam, er, Allah doesn't approve of physics.

  • Mint Berry Crunch||

    It's worth revisiting this (newly updated!) classic from Think Progress: Why ISIS Is Not, In Fact, Islamic

  • Wizard with a Woodchipper||

    Pass.

  • Drake||

    Having read the Koran and some of the Haddiths, I still won't agree with it.

    ISIS is the epitome of Islam.

  • Mint Berry Crunch||

    You're just an Islamophobic bigot, then. Probably a racist too. If Islam were practiced mainly by white Americans you'd have no problem with it.

    Here's some wisdom from the Reality-Based Community.....

    Nancy Pelosi is Catholic.

    Jared Loughner is a Tea Partier.

    Caitlyn Jenner is a woman.

    But ISIS is not Islamic. Not even a little bit.

  • sarcasmic||

    I don't know how anyone who does even the slightest research into Islam could say ISIS is not Islamic. I did a report on the religion back in high school (pre-9/11, so hopefully I didn't get on any watch lists), and everything I read said Islam is more than a religion. It's a way of life. It is a religion, a system of government, as well as a system of law. It encompasses every aspect of life. The only way for it to be fully expressed is within an Islamic state. That makes ISIS the embodiment of Islam.

  • lap83||

    Yeah, Islam is a political system as well as a religion. Unfortunately that makes dealing with it a tricky dilemma for Westerners who value basic freedoms like the right to religion. Imagine if communism had religious protections

  • Christophe||

    Communism had free speech protections. Or are we going to start saying putting Eugene Debs in jail was a good idea?

  • lap83||

    A religion has more protections than just speech.

  • CatoTheYounger||

    That wasn't a good idea then and it isn't a good idea now.

  • Suicidy||

    Or.....just don't have Islam in any western country. Problem solved.

  • BigT||

    "If Islam were practiced mainly by white Americans you'd have no problem with it."

    A mind reader walks amongst us!

  • Res ipsa loquitur||

    Blessed be to Allah for such a person amongst us !

  • Drake||

    So if Mohammed wasn't a murderer, rapist, slaver, and terrorist - why did he so emphatically endorse this behavior. And why did his biographers write about him committing these acts in glowing terms?

  • block30||

    Tell that to Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

  • ||

    I have never seen anything from Think Progress that was not a calculated lie.

  • Win Bear||

    Could we follow that up with:

    "Why progressives are not, in fact, progressive."

    "Why liberals are not, in fact, liberal."

    "Why social justice warriors are not, in fact, fighting for social justice."

  • Jimbo||

    ISIS is contained, huh? You know who else declared "Mission accomplished" prematurely?

  • Pan Zagloba||

    General Westmoreland?

    (Holy shit, I never realized how imperialist his name is - that land belongs to the native tribes, General!)

  • blcartwright||

    My great-great-great-great grandmother was kidnapped by Indians...in Westmoreland County.

  • sasob||

    In Virginia? That's where my first American ancestor supposedly landed back about 1630 something. Twelve generations ago, la de da. :-)

  • Marshall Gill||

    So you are an immigrant?

  • sasob||

    I was born here - I'm a twelfth generation American on my father's side of the family. My ancestor in the 17th century was the immigrant.

  • sasob||

    I'm also the last of my line - unless I do like my grandfather did and father children in my 60's. (Unlikely)

  • The online me||

    Have you got your reparations yet? If not demand some casino chips

  • F. Iron-Ass Stupidity, Jr.||

    Lindsay Jacobellis?

  • Mrs. Lemuel Struthers||

    Gillespie and Welch?

    /Libertarian Moment

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Man, you're really worked up.

    Can I comfort you in your time of need?

  • Mrs. Lemuel Struthers||

    Yes, please send bourbon and steak.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    I'll deliver the meat in person.

  • EMD||

    HEY NOW.

  • lap83||

    It's a trap!

  • Pan Zagloba||

    Transphobe!

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    She knows what she's getting into.

  • Suicidy||

    Well, they were shouting 'Admiral Ackbar!', weren't they?

  • Wizard with a Woodchipper||

    The Franciscans?

  • Atanarjuat||

    Bushitler?

  • BigT||

    John Bobbitt?

  • Crusty Juggler||

    OT: Because the French tragedy is supremely terrible, I am going to share the best (and worst) rap song I have heard in awhile, which includes a video starring the artist who does a fine job acting out the lyrics.

  • RAHeinlein||

    Thanks for the laugh on an otherwise dismal day.

  • Mrs. Lemuel Struthers||

    unfriended.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    I don't give a fuck.

  • Mrs. Lemuel Struthers||

    Well, you are ratchet.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Thank you.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    So you have at least a semi, right?

  • Trigger Warning||

    A semi...ratchet? Is that how that word works?

  • lap83||

    Better than Taylor Swift *runs*

  • Mrs. Lemuel Struthers||

  • lap83||

    Honestly I was able to watch more of the fat girl twerking in sweatpants than that video

  • Rhywun||

    Me too.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    My 2 youngest love watching live concerts on the Palladia channel. They'll watch pretty much anyone, and eventually fall asleep doing so.

    The other day, it was Taylor Swift live at the Claremont Colleges. OH MY GOD IT WAS THE WORST THING I'VE EVER SEEN.

    She has some, I repeat SOME musical talent. But the act, the personality, the phoniness, all of it was just too much. I'd rather listen to Will.i.Am talk about how he flies around in a corporate helicopter fighting global warming.

  • Mrs. Lemuel Struthers||

    unfriended

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    I had no idea that you were president of the fan club.

    Implied offer of extra-marital sex withdrawn.

  • Mrs. Lemuel Struthers||

    Too late. Once it's out there there's no backsies, sucka.

  • MSimon||

    Consent can be withdrawn at any time. Dicks take longer.

  • ||

    A nice one.

  • lap83||

    Music for little kids to fall asleep to. Sounds about right

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    They love Ellie Goulding. She puts on a good show.

  • lap83||

    Ellie Goulding is pretty good. A bit poppier than what I usually listen to, but I'm a sucker for electronic. So she's cool.

  • Trigger Warning||

    Perhaps you would like Conjure One?

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jy1KQZKl1hA

  • lap83||

    I do like Conjure One. (also Delerium and Front Line Assembly) Although I haven't listened to them much in years.

  • Rhywun||

    Big FLA fan since the beginning. But this is putting me to sleep. I should try it at bedtime.

  • ||

    I heard from an industry type that she's actually very sweet in person.

  • Mrs. Lemuel Struthers||

    Why thank you, Jesse. I am in fact very sweet in person. You're talking about me, right?

    friended

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    It's a trap. He's just trying to bang your bearded son.

  • Mrs. Lemuel Struthers||

    Can no one be trusted?!!

    /runs away crying

  • ||

    Wildly inappropriate, Plàya. I haven't even seen her bearded son yet.

  • Cytotoxic||

    A thought just occurred to me: a while ago I remember ISIS was urging refugees and other people wanting to leave to stay and join The Caliphate. Makes sense: a state without people-especially skilled/smart ones-isn't much. They are serious about getting families to settle in their state. Need kids to indoctrinate and draft. You know what's a great way to prevent them from leaving? Attack the countries they're leaving for, and have them blame refugees who didn't do anything! Then they get forced to come back.

    Even if this isn't ISIS's intent, it would not be at all surprising for the mouth breathers to end up aiding them.

  • Wizard with a Woodchipper||

    You're kidding, right?

  • Brochettaward||

    Maybe some of those refugees can actually stay and fight for their country? The idea that sending refugees back would help ISIS is a pretty ridiculous line of thought even if ISIS itself believes it.

  • Cytotoxic||

    "Maybe some of those refugees can actually stay and fight for their country?"

    They may just have better things to do than die pointlessly without adequate weapons.

    "The idea that sending refugees back would help ISIS is a pretty ridiculous line of thought even if ISIS itself believes it."

    Why? Like I said they want the people, like a parasite needs a host.

  • Brochettaward||

    Your assumption being that any authority can just do what it wants to individuals who object without push back. If anything, the exodus of people only helps a regime like the one ISIS wants to implement as it relieves social pressure that would normally end up directed against them.

    They may just have better things to do than die pointlessly without adequate weapons.

    Are you implying that they are just outgunned by ISIS which itself mostly relies upon small arms? There's no lack of weaponry in Syria.

  • Marshall Gill||

    He has to convince himself that the act of immigration makes people good. He has to confront his imbecilic belief that, somehow, immigrating to the West makes you a libertarian. It just has to!

    Sure, there is no basis for these beliefs but he is probably mentally ill, if not simply of very low intelligence.

  • ant1sthenes||

    ISIS's intent is to shit all over everything and be as evil as possible, that's about as deep as it goes.

  • lawnerd||

    ISIS intent is to establish an extremist Islamic state. One that is extreme even by comparison to Tehran. We must back Syria. We shouldn't demand democracy. In this case dictatorship and stability are worth peace. We should back Russia and Syria, and decimate ISIS. This is war and all western countries must unite to burn ISIS to the ground.

  • Drake||

    How's that gun control working for the Frenchies? Sounds like they need better signs.

  • Pan Zagloba||

    It's impossible for law-abiding citizens to carry a gun (though their laws are actually rather liberal* about long arms in rural areas), so working just fine.

    *relative to most of Western and Northern Europe.

  • DEG||


    *relative to most of Western and Northern Europe.

    Yes, not all of Europe is fucked about guns. Switzerland and The Czech Republic are pretty relaxed about guns. I remember reading one or two of the Balkan countries were also pretty relaxed about guns, but I can't remember which ones.

  • Pan Zagloba||

    Someone posted a list of top 10 countries for gun owners, and Serbia was the only Balkan country that made the list, though not as high as I'd assume, because a lot of European countries are tightening up their gun laws due to EU regulation (Swiss politicians fucked over their citizenry because the French were pissy about their citizens buying firearms in Switzerland, for example).

  • DEG||

    Was it this list? I also found this page while searching. I read that southern South America is pretty relaxed (relatively speaking) about guns, but I note that on both lists only Paraguay makes the list.

  • Pan Zagloba||

    Yeah, it was that first list. And, it's mostly about legal requirements - lots of countries on the list are even more loose when it comes to old bolt-action rifles out in the boonies.
    One of my regrets about moving to Canada will always be that it put my grandfather's trophy Kar98, complete with Nazi eagle stamp, out of my reach. Hopefully it's safe with my uncle's side of the family.
    Actually, I guess it technically wasn't the trophy, as that was the rifle he used to fight other Germans after he got it.

  • DEG||

    One of my regrets about moving to Canada will always be that it put my grandfather's trophy Kar98, complete with Nazi eagle stamp, out of my reach. Hopefully it's safe with my uncle's side of the family.

    Seriously? You can't own a K98 in Canada?

    I hope it is safe with your uncle's side of the family.

    Two stories.

    A guy I used to know, who was in his early 50s when I hung around him in the early 00s, told me about a trip he took to Canada after he got out of the Marines. This trip was before GCA '68. He told me he bought a K98 in Canada, no questions asked. He declared it when he crossed the border to return to the States. The US border guards all wanted to see the rifle. Some of the guards gave him tips to make the rifle more accurate, others gave him sporterizing tips. They let him bring the rifle into the US, no permits, no fuss, no muss.

    The other story is one of my grandfathers told me he picked a Luger up off of a dead German officer sometime before my grandfather arrived at Bastogne. My grandfather was wounded during the siege. When the siege was over, in a daze from his injuries he told the medics about his Luger. He asked them to keep it safe. They told him that they would. When he woke up in a field hospital, he discovered that only did the medics steal the Luger from him, they stole everything else they could, including his boots.

  • Pan Zagloba||

    Seriously? You can't own a K98 in Canada?

    You can own it, if you get a licence and spell out why you want it (self-defense is not a reason). Importing this specific rifle would have been much harder.
    The killer is, I rent an apartment and don't drive. That means I cannot pass the requirements to legally store or transport the weapon. So while I technically could have tried getting it over, in practical terms it may as well have been banned.
    And, though I was Beloved Oldest Grandchild (male to boot), my uncle was the older child, so he has a much better claim on it (plus easier to keep, as he worked for the police).

  • DEG||

    Wow. I hope it is safe.

  • Brochettaward||

    So, France is going to beg America to do something? That's how I read those comments.

  • Jerry on the rocks||

    Apparently the only drone they have is on strike.

  • sarcasmic||

    I don't know what the solution is to this, but war isn't it. War is how one government convinces another government to tell its soldiers to stop fighting. In the case of terrorism, the terrorists have no central authority who will tell them to stop fighting. You can't kill the snake by cutting off its head because it doesn't have a head. You can't kill ideas with guns.

  • wareagle||

    you can't negotiate or talk with them. When one side starts with "I keel you" there is really nowhere to go. It's asymetrical so you can't attack a sovereign nation that hosts the problem, but you can't issue meaningless statements, either. The terrorists do have some form of leadership that can be attacked but it is a time- and resource-consuming process.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Um wrong. ISIS absolutely has a head that can be cut off and soldiers.

  • Agammamon||

    Hydra had a head that could be cut off also.

    Early Christianity had a head that could be cut off.

    Memetic warfare - the only way to win is to have a better meme.

  • Agammamon||

    The British didn't beat the Irish separatists with bullets, they beat them with a better meme.

  • MarkLastname||

    So, we need to get the Arabs really into cat-breading?

  • ||

    GI Joe Hydra or Herakles hydra?

    Because employing Greek demigods to burn the neck stumps of ISIS leaders is just the kind of quirky mental image my Saturday needed.

  • Professor Woland||

    I think you mean Marvel Comics Hydra, GI Joe fought Cobra.

  • BearOdinson||

    So as long as we keep ISIS away from the Infinity Stones, were golden!

  • sarcasmic||

    Um, I said terrorists, not ISIS. Sure ISIS has leadership, but not all terrorists are ISIS. Besides that, did terrorism stop after killing AQ's leadership? No. It came back with a vengeance.

    Not that I expect silly things like facts to deflate your war-boner.

  • Agammamon||

    Funny, after we killed Al Qaeda's leadership we got . . . ISIS.

  • blcartwright||

    After bin Laden was killed, Obama declared victory and went golfing

  • Robert||

    Then what are hostages for?

  • ant1sthenes||

    Ideas don't existing in some magical Aristotelian plane of Logos, they exist in people's heads, and survive by being communicated. You can absolutely kill an idea with guns, though people might develop it again independently. Depends on how obvious it is and whether the social climate supports it.

  • Christophe||

    I don't think that's applicable here. People are self-radicalizing online. Genie's out of the bottle.

  • sarcasmic||

    So how does that work? Kill every Muslim and destroy every Muslim text? Because if you study the religion, ISIS is the logical conclusion. Conquest is how the religion started, and for people who take it seriously that's where it must return.

  • Marshall Gill||

    So how does that work? Kill every Muslim and destroy every Muslim text? Because if you study the religion, ISIS is the logical conclusion

    I think that if we nuked Mecca and Medina Islam would reform itself, if not disappear completely. The destruction of the "holy cities" would be proof positive that their religion was not divine. You could even give advance notice so that people could evacuate. Short of that? Some sort of forced Reformation? Protestantism helped take the violent edge off of Christianity.

  • Akira||

    To kill an idea with guns, you'd have to kill everyone who believes in said idea (and all at the same time so that nobody spreads the word), physically destroy any founding manifestos or screeds (an impossibility in the Internet age), and also eliminate the social conditions and thought processes that led to that idea in the first place.

    In other words, no, you can't kill an idea with guns.

  • Res ipsa loquitur||

    We can try !

  • Free Society||

    I don't know. It happens with languages all the time. If you kill the people to whom the idea is actually valuable and then even if the idea is preserved in texts and on the internet, and even if random jackoffs occasionally pick up the mantle, the idea will die as the context in which mass amounts of people can find it valuable has been destroyed. There won't be enough "native speakers" of this idea to make carrying it forward to be worthwhile for one's social survival.

    Not saying that's what should be done, just that even in an information age, you can effectively kill an idea.

  • thrakkorzog||

    Well you can certainly make an idea less popular if the followers look like losers. There's a reason there are a lot less Nazis and Klan members around than there were 70 years ago. The ideas are still out there, just a lot less popular than they used to be. People can still read Mein Kampf if they want to, but for some reason the ideas are a lot less persuasive these days.

  • lawnerd||

    NO. War is armed conflict between different governments, institutions, or peoples. War can be fought against a group. But war is NOT a police action. War is armed conflict. War is hell. You fight war with only on objective. To defeat your enemy. In the extreme, defeat is the total destruction and death of the enemy. You do this despite collateral damage. You do this with all urgency and primacy. It is a fight to the death. Johnson, Nixon, and Bush did not understand this. Our current leader does not. Hopefully, Putin does. ISIS must be destroyed, utterly. Each and every member must be killed. Without this, there will be no peace. Without this there will be endless uncertainty and terror.

  • sarcasmic||

    Johnson, Nixon, and Bush did not understand this.

    Johnson, Nixon, and Bush were not fighting wars. They were not fighting a central government. WWII was the last war this country fought in the sense of one government arguing with another government. Traditional war against insurgents or ideas doesn't work. It has been proven time and time again. There is no central authority that you can convince to stop fighting. I don't know what the solution is, but war isn't it.

  • Raven Nation||

    WWII was the last war this country fought in the sense of one government arguing with another government.

    Korea?

    /nitpicker

  • Pan Zagloba||

    Grenada? Panama? War with Iraq 1 and 2?

  • MarkLastname||

    You call those countries?

  • ||

    Iraq?

  • lawnerd||

    War is not simply armed conflict between government. War is armed conflict between groups. We did not need Nazi Germany to convince to stop fighting. They stopped fighting because they lost the ability to fight - we destroyed their ability to fight. What is traditional war? We haven't fought a real war since world war II. Everything else has been a police action. In war, you define an enemy and you destroy them. War is a question of life and death, you don't go into this with defined rules. In war it is OK to fire bomb Dresden. In war it is OK to nuke Hiroshima. Innocent people die. But otherwise innocent people die.

  • sarcasmic||

    you define an enemy and you destroy them

    So how do you define this enemy? That's the question, and I don't know the answer.

  • blcartwright||

    lawned is correct in that they only fought their wards hard enough to get the other side to the negotiating table, instead of removing the other side from any position of power.

  • RG||

    This "idea" has ~30-50k hard core adherents? War can certainly work. The idea may still remain, but the means to achieve it are severely decimated and have to be rebuilt.

  • sarcasmic||

    And I agree in the sense that the goal must be absolute destruction of the enemy. But the enemy in this case isn't in a uniform. It isn't represented by a central authority. It has no leader to tell it's fighters to stop fighting. So other than killing every man, woman, and child who may or may not be a terrorist (and creating terrorists out of friends and family in the process), I don't see how war can solve this.

  • wareagle||

    given that, stopping the flow of Muslims into non-Muslim nations becomes the next step. Yes, I know this will cause heads to rotate here as the it is the highest form of heresy, but putting people who are hostile to a culture into that culture will end badly every time.

  • BigT||

    Unfortunate, but true. We must closely control immigration. Best way is to increase the number of legal permits so the immigrants will be cooperative. Screen out any undesirables - criminals, activists, etc

  • wareagle||

    and with these folks, force the Middle Eastern nations to address a problem that originates in their backyard. Stopping the flow is non-violent, no military, no more dead Americans or anyone else, and it puts the onus of a solution where it belongs.

  • MarkLastname||

    Um, how exactly? Ask everyone "are you a Muslim?" at the border? Or base it on country? So Lebanese and Coptic Christians are just screwed? What about countries with significant Muslim minorities like India? Besides, I doubt you could keep them out anyway. Much like getting a gun, getting into a country is something a person will probably find a way to do if they're dedicated enough. Stupid plan methinks.

  • lawnerd||

    NO. War is armed conflict between different governments, institutions, or peoples. War can be fought against a group. But war is NOT a police action. War is armed conflict. War is hell. You fight war with only on objective. To defeat your enemy. In the extreme, defeat is the total destruction and death of the enemy. You do this despite collateral damage. You do this with all urgency and primacy. It is a fight to the death. Johnson, Nixon, and Bush did not understand this. Our current leader does not. Hopefully, Putin does. ISIS must be destroyed, utterly. Each and every member must be killed. Without this, there will be no peace. Without this there will be endless uncertainty and terror.

  • GamerFromJump||

    "Allahu ackbar"-seeking rockets?

  • lawnerd||

    Sorry my libertarian friends. France must respond. Must respond with decisive and lethal action. Similarly, Russia will respond if it is found that ISIS bombed their plane. And we should respond if attacked. But response should be complete without hesitations or pity. War is declared and war is hell. When drawn to war a party must act without mercy. This is not a police action, despite our leader's claims. This is war. And war must be fought to win, regardless of cost. This is the mistake of Bush, and Nixon, and Johnson. War is an extreme. You must drive your enemies to defeat. Kill them all.

  • Christophe||

    Who's "them"? Kind of an important thing to specify.

  • lawnerd||

    This is the kind of police action mentality that you can't have in war. Do you think all Germans were Nazis, all Southerns were slave owners, all Soviets communists. You define your enemy with the broadest measure needed and you kill them. Innocents will die, but innocents are being killed. What is the alternative?

  • Sevo||

    lawnerd|11.14.15 @ 5:40PM|#
    "...What is the alternative?"

    Well, one is not doing that.

  • wareagle||

    France tried that alternative. First it had a magazine attacked and now this.

  • Sevo||

    wareagle|11.14.15 @ 5:50PM|#
    "France tried that alternative. First it had a magazine attacked and now this."

    Uh, do I need to point out the false alternative?

  • wareagle||

    France tried being peaceful and accommodating. It hasn't worked.

  • Sevo||

    So the only alternative is:
    "You define your enemy with the broadest measure needed and you kill them. Innocents will die, but innocents are being killed."
    You and lawnerd need brain transplants.

  • ||

    What would them swapping brains improve ?

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    LOL

    "Who are we declaring war on?"
    "That's exactly the kind of attitude you can't have in war!"

  • lawnerd||

    This is the kind of police action mentality that you can't have in war. Do you think all Germans were Nazis, all Southerns were slave owners, all Soviets communists. You define your enemy with the broadest measure needed and you kill them. Innocents will die, but innocents are being killed. What is the alternative?

  • Sevo||

    And what constitutes "defeat"?

  • Res ipsa loquitur||

    No more escargot on the menu.

  • Sevo||

    Hey! What am I gonna dip the bread into?

  • sasob||

    Olive oil?

  • MarkLastname||

  • creech||

    How does one identify the guilty from the innocent? For example, Viet Cong or Mosby's Rangers operating within the general population. Like with the Cathers - kill them all and let God sort em out?

  • lawnerd||

    Unfortunately yes. If ISIS is in a known region of Iraq, you kill everyone there. There is no alternative but loss, surrender.

  • Sevo||

    lawnerd|11.14.15 @ 5:41PM|#
    "Unfortunately yes. If ISIS is in a known region of Iraq, you kill everyone there. There is no alternative but loss, surrender."

    Sarc? Stupidity?

  • BigT||

    "Unfortunately yes. If ISIS is in a known region of Iraq, you kill everyone there."

    ISIS is in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Egypt, Turkey, and a few others. You really want to kill 250-500 million people?

  • ||

    You forgot the US. And France. And Sweden and Germany.

    You forgot the US, France, Sweden and Germany.

    You're very forgetful.

    We may have to call in some willie peter and napalm here on Galveston Bay.

    The survivors can eat the byproducts of fried shrimpa and steamed crabs

  • Res ipsa loquitur||

    Is this a trick question ?

  • MarkLastname||

    By this logic you don't even need radical Islam to justify blowing the world trade centers. Hell, I'd bet at least one person in those buildings was a murderer or a rapist, may as well take town the whole thing. Better a thousand innocent should hang than a single guilty one go free! I think that's what Blackstone said at least.

  • sarcasmic||

    Who will tell the terrorist fighters to stand down? Who gives them their orders, uniforms, and paychecks? Exactly.

    War is a tool of politics. It is how governments settle arguments. Terrorists do not take orders from any central authority, so to make war with them simply will not work.

    Like I said above, I don't know what the solution is. But I fail to see how war is it.

  • lap83||

    Well you can take it on a case by case basis. In this situation, ISIS claimed responsibility and it is a governing body. That suggests a pretty straightforward form of retaliation.

  • Akira||

    Even if we suppose that the US succeeded in getting ISIS's "leadership" to order a cease-fire, do you think their rank-and-file members would obey? Think about the mental state of a guy who picks up a gun and massacres a theater full of civilians because he believes that this is the highest calling and that it will be rewarded with virgins in heaven.

    I don't think that an order from the "top brass" of ISIS is going to get these people to go home and get a job. Maybe a few of them would stand down, but not very many. They would most likely split off and form their own group with an even more extreme ideology.

  • sarcasmic||

    Even if we suppose that the US succeeded in getting ISIS's "leadership" to order a cease-fire, do you think their rank-and-file members would obey?

    That's my point.

  • The artist known Dunphy||

    The difficulty is, as they admit - we worship life, they worship death

  • sarcasmic||

    When I want your opinion I'll cook some bacon.

  • sarcasmic||

    Oh, and for someone who worships life, why did you choose a job that allows you to murder with impunity? Ass.

  • EMD||

    Death cults rarely win protracted engagements.

  • Akira||

    I agreed with your point - I was disputing lap83's assertion that it's simple to destroy ISIS with military action.

  • lap83||

    I didn't mean that it would be simple to accomplish

  • lap83||

    No I don't, but I also tend to mistrust cease-fires. But if ISIS were destroyed that would obviously put a damper on recruitment. There are no perfect solutions, but there are degrees of effectiveness. ISIS may originate from ideas, but they still rely on logistics like any militant group. Make it harder for them to sustain themselves and grow.

  • lawnerd||

    War is a tool of politics. But it is more than that. Real war, us or them. It is not pretty, but it is survival. If you have an enemy that is out to kill you, you kill him first despite all cost. Sorry to be this way, but I do not want to die in a terrorist attack. I would want my people to find and kill anyone willing to kill me. And it should be terrible. It should be so terrible that no one would consider a terrorist attack because WAR IS WORSE THAN TERRORISM. It is the trump card. You can't abide some people killing your kin at will. You can't.

  • sarcasmic||

    Sorry to be this way, but you've got a better chance of getting struck by lightning on a cloudless day (it does happen) than being killed in a terrorist attack.

    I don't see how war is the answer because there is no organized group to go after. Yes there are some organized groups, but they don't represent all radical Islamists. Kill off one group and another will pop up, just as ISIS popped up after we cut off AQ's head.

    That said, I would not complain if our government decided to carpet-bomb ISIS. It would help, but it wouldn't solve the problem.

  • wareagle||

    then the other option is you do not allow people from Islamic countries into the Western world. People here will freak out but their open borders fealty is not working. It remains a curiosity why the Syrians cannot and are not being pushed toward other Muslim countries where at least they have that much in common.

  • sarcasmic||

    I see your point, but on the other hand how many honest refugees will be unfairly punished?

  • wareagle||

    no doubt, some will be but I don't hear any other ideas. This one is non-violent. In addition, it puts the onus on other Middle Eastern nations to address a problem of their making.

  • ||

    A great many of the invaders are getting to Europe via Turkey, an islamic country that is willing to accommodate them. They don't stay there because they want the larger freebies the Europeans are offering and also, they are invading Europe.

  • MarkLastname||

    "It remains a curiosity why the Syrians cannot and are not being pushed toward other Muslim countries..."
    How is that a curiosity? Most other Muslim countries are poor and miserable, so the Syrians try to move to countries that are prosperous. It seems pretty intuitive. Why did so many Irish come to the US instead of moving to Catholic Poland? Because more important than being surrounded by co-religionists, they wanted to survive.

    And in one sense that is good news. It means even among Syrians most people are still interested in practical things like not dying and finding work and whatnot. And they, they can be reasoned with. They can be useful. Hence why the Kurds have been the most effective opponent of the Islamic state: they are fighting for their lives. And thankfully, when it comes to fighting for that, most everyone is ever bit as much a fanatic as the most devoted ISIS follower.

  • sasob||

    Why did so many Irish come to the US instead of moving to Catholic Poland?

    Um... because not many people in Poland spoke English? Granted the Irish had their own native language, but most of them could also speak English.

  • MarkLastname||

    Well the language difference didn't stop Italians or Poles from coming to the US either. The point being that when picking a place to migrate to, people rarely pick the shithole next door with a similar culture or language over the land of opportunity thousands of miles away.

  • sasob||

    I agree with you, but considering the way the Irish were treated here I'm not sure it was much better than the "shithole next door" for many of them. But at least, there was cheap land available; that's what drove much emigration.

  • BigT||

    "That said, I would not complain if our government decided to carpet-bomb ISIS. It would help, but it wouldn't solve the problem."

    We can do better with drones and cruise missiles. Also less collateral damage. For this we need on the ground intelligence. Maybe some of those refugees would like to become agents?

  • ||

    Yeah thats the ticket.

    They could guide our bombs to kill their personal enemies and hospitals and such.

    No thanks.

    Get an Israelie.

  • ||

    Well, they won't respond, unless it's to apologize more and make speech less free for their own citizens.

    And Russia not too long ago shot down a fucking plane full of Dutch citizens over the Ukraine? Remember that? Fuck Russia.

  • MarkLastname||

    All the better. If ISIS and Russia are too busy duking it out we may all be a little safer.

  • Caligula||

    OT: I was in downtown Denver attending an event, and witnessed for the first time a group of women doing FUCKING jazz hands. I came very, VERY close to violating the NAP.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    I hope it catches on.

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    witnessed for the first time a group of women doing FUCKING jazz hands. I came very, VERY close to violating the NAP.

    Jazz hands are great. (or "is" great?)

  • Akira||

  • Mr Lizard||

    Your mother?

  • John C. Randolph||

    Hollande says it's war. I guess now we'll see what the French military has learned since Vietnam.

    -jcr

  • Raven Nation||

    Maybe they'll dust off the Algiers playbook.

  • Sevo||

    "I guess now we'll see what the French military has learned since Vietnam."

    They learned to scram and turn it over to the US.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    It's just a bunch of guys in pajamas dragging around old artillery, so how much damage can they do?

    It's just junior varsity, which is now contained, so how much damage can they do?

  • GILMORE™||

    NYT Focuses on Priorities = "Will Dead Parisians Help Hillary?"

  • wareagle||

    given her dismal performance as SoS and given that the president is her ex-boss, it is hard to see how this helps.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Stop inserting logic into presidential politics. Logically, she would have resigned in disgrace after Benghazi.

    Logically she would have ceased to be a decent candidate after we found out about her secret, email server.

    Logically Donald Trump would not be in first place for the Republicans.

  • lap83||

    If it does help, she'll definitely take full advantage

  • ||

    I think it will help Trump more than anyone because of his hard anti illegal immigrant posture.

  • MarkLastname||

    Well, she did help create this ISIS problem, so who would know more about how to solve it?

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Brendan O'Neil on Paris

    I think the entire piece is worth reading, but the conclusion is:

    Let us now refortify those values of freedom and openness, in a real and direct way, angrily if we must, and in the process shrink the moral vacuum in which nihilistic Islamists have been able to place their backward, bloody flag. That’s enough cultural appeasement; fight — really fight — for the Enlightenment.
  • Pan Zagloba||

    Have I mentioned recently that Brendan O'Neill is my favorite Reason non-staff contributor? If he keeps this up, Reason should hire him full-time.

  • Almanian's Rusty Woodchipper||

    nihilistic Islamists

    Say what you will about the tenets of national socialism - at least it's an ethos.

  • Mr Lizard||

    Perhaps the Parisian mammals want to rethink gun regulations. Kinda adds meaning to the second part of 2A

  • Almanian's Rusty Woodchipper||

    My son has decided to get one of your colleagues, a "bearded lizard". We scoped out prospects and habitats. 55l aquarium necessary. He's excited - Christmas present.

  • Atanarjuat||

    Don't go on Facebook, unless you have a higher tolerance for sanctimonious displays of whatever than I do.

  • Slammer||

    Don't wanna overlay the French flag over your profile pic? Me either

  • Almanian's Rusty Woodchipper||

    Yeah, this

  • lap83||

    So glad I'm not on FB anymore

  • Akira||

    They're doing that now?

    Don't people already overlay their photos with rainbow flags? And wasn't there something about an equals sign for "marriage equality" or something?

    I don't use or view Facebook, but their profile pics must be obscured by a lot of shit.

  • BigT||

    I added a link to the Marseillaise scene from Casablanca ( as was posted in HnR by someone) I always get a tear at that scene.

  • DEG||

    This one, right?

    I'm not the one that originally posted it here, and I'm embarrassed to say I still haven't seen Casablanca.

  • blcartwright||

    oh, Ingrid is hot!!

  • BigT||

    DEG: "I'm embarrassed to say I still haven't seen Casablanca."

    I strongly suggest you correct this gap in your education.

  • DEG||

    It's on my list.

  • Slammer||

    What is your nationality?

    I'm a drunkard.

  • BigT||

    I'm same as Lazslo - Czech.

  • EMD||

    I did too.

  • MarkLastname||

    I kinda feel like I should "accidentally" overlay the Dutch flag over my pic instead (the Dutch flag is the French flag sideways).

    I suspect no one will get the joke, and those that do probably won't be pleased.

  • Atanarjuat||

    Just use the ISIS flag.

  • MarkLastname||

    Haha, much as I would like to visit Cuba, I'd prefer to do it on a commercial jet to Havana, not air freight to Guantanamo Bay with a bag on my head.

  • Arizona_Guy||

    I used this picture for my FB background. No one got the reference:


    Battle_of_Tours

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

  • Almanian's Rusty Woodchipper||

    Peace sells.

    Buy who's buyin'?

  • Slammer||

    Holy Wars

  • Almanian's Rusty Woodchipper||

    Dance to the symphony....

    ....of destruction...

  • SusanM||

    Punishment due...

  • Slammer||

    Good Mourning/Black Friday

  • SusanM||

    !

  • Slammer||

    yeah Black Friday is creepy weird

  • sarcasmic||

    What do you mean I hurt your feelings. Didn't know you had any feelings.

  • Almanian's Rusty Woodchipper||

    I'm just not your kind

  • Raven Nation||

    The bot channels Ann Coulter.

  • Almanian's Rusty Woodchipper||

    perfect

  • Pan Zagloba||

    Laugh all your like, but one day Ann Coulter will rip off the face mask and triumphantly scream "Foolish mortals, your robotic masters have been among you for decades. Now BOW AND SUBMIT!"

  • DEG||

    I always think of this when Ann Coulter is mentioned.

  • Mrs. Lemuel Struthers||

    So, skynet went live?

  • MarkLastname||

    Damn you, I was about to say "this is how skynet is born"!

    Anyway, I wonder if that New York prosecutor (the woodchipper guy) will subpoena the bot now.

  • __Warren__||

    The Saracens will fall to the Holy Swords wielded by the Paladins of Christendom!

  • Pan Zagloba||

    +5 Holy Avenger? Dibs!

  • __Warren__||

    The Sword of Sharpness is better.

  • thrakkorzog||

    Worthless paladins will just bubble hearth out though.

  • MSimon||

    The current military plan is not so stupid as the last one. (Free Syrian Army support)

    The Kurds fight ISIS well. Obama is strengthening the Kurds. That is a blow to Syria and Iran. God you Reason guys are not very good when int comes to military stuff. The Kurds also have a tolerably tolerant culture and they like Israel.

    And yes sometimes the things the military does are stupid. But sometimes they are not.

  • __Warren__||

    There are different strains of Kurds. Some are terrorists in their own right.

  • MSimon||

    But they have no large ambition. Europe is not in their sights as part of Greater Kurdistan. When was the last Kurdish attack on Europe.

    And yes. The Kurds have quite a few communists.

    But it is still a better plan than the last one.

  • __Warren__||

    I'm not opposed to the Kurds being armed but is there a way to make sure the commie bits get nothing?

  • MSimon||

    Doubtful. There seem to be a LOT of them in Kurdistan. And they fight.

  • MarkLastname||

    I'm not sure it really matters. They're not the Soviet Union, it's not like they're going to spread international socialism or anything.

    And I would bet that these days a lot of people are beginning to wonder if we sided with the right side in the Soviet-Afghan war.

  • blcartwright||

    The Kurds live in Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey, and their situations are different in each country. The Turks have been fierce in oppressing any separatism. I heard that the Turks were flying bombing missions out of Incirlik against the Kurds at the same time the US was lfying bombing missions out of Incirlik backing the Kurds.

  • MSimon||

    This is true. However, the US was supporting Kurds in Syria. The Turks were bombing Kurds in Turkey.

  • JeremyR||

    And how many people who bitch about Israel oppressing the Palestinians also bitch about Turkey?

    Not a single one.

  • ||

    I see Obumbles has dumped 10K 'refugees' in New Orleans.

  • __Warren__||

    Obama doesn't care about black people!

  • BigT||

    Put them in the 9th ward, then pop the levee. Muslim soup!

  • __Warren__||

    My religion doesn't allow me to eat long pork.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    OT: Tonight’s Debate Now Beyond Insulting as Moderator Meets with Campaigns Beforehand

    He had to make sure everyone was on the same page.

  • __Warren__||

    Since you can't kill the idea and going after Muslims in general is pointless (even if it was physically possible) as the vast majority are and will continue to be innocent of any aggression you have to harden the potential targets, and to maintain a free society do it in a non-police state way.

    Therefore pistols, SMGs or short-barreled rifles and the training for every competent person is the way to do that.

    All gun laws get trashed, no taxes on weapons, ammo, accessories, range time or training. Encourage weapons proficiency with competitions with significant prize money.

    You can't force people to carry but you can suggest that business charge more to people who aren't carrying. Say a premium of 20%.

    These will get enough people to put aside their resistance to carry to create the necessary percentage of people capable of fighting back to reduce the success rate of terrorists.

  • ||

    "...people capable of fighting back..."

    Exactly why the Pols here will never allow any of that to happen.

  • John||

    Personal defense is great and all but it is of limited effectiveness against people who want to die and thus cannot be deterred and hide in the population. Arm yourself all you like. Become a great shot. Unless you are psychic, however, it won't save you when person next to you on the train blows himself up.

    The only solution is to go after Muslims. It is an ugly solution but the only one that is available.

  • __Warren__||

    There's a billion of them. it's not physically possible. You need some sort of filter to get that huge number down to a relevant actionable number. Does that filter exist?

  • John||

    I don't mean all. I mean in every country where they are a minority. Make it clear they are no longer welcome anywhere outside of where they already are a majority.

    Europe could deport their entire Muslim populations if they wanted too. It would be an extreme solution but it could be done.

    As far as there being a billion of them; they would find the religion less appealing as time went on if it meant they were no longer welcome in large parts of the world.

  • __Warren__||

    The Somali diaspora is un-diasporaing as things get better down there. Maybe not fast enough for some but it is happening.

    So that's one thing, but many of the Muslims in France are French. Most of them have not harmed and will never harm anybody, why would you kick them out?

  • John||

    Because you can't tell which is which. You give them a chance; renounce Islam or get out. If they care more about being Muslim than staying, that is their choice.

    Again that would be a brutal and nasty solution. But it may be the only one available at some point.

  • BigT||

    "You give them a chance; renounce Islam or get out."

    Yes, Ms. Coulter.

  • MarkLastname||

    This is just plain asinine. The proportion of self-identified French Muslims that are prospective terrorists is negligible. I can see radical feminists using the exact same reasoning, "oh sure, maybe some, even most men aren't rapists/wife-beaters or whatever, but we can't tell which ones they are just by looking at them; may as well put them all in jail."

    What aggravates the stupidity is that no terrorist is going to hesitate to verbally renounce Islam, then two weeks later go blow up an office building. It's just silly.

  • MarkLastname||

    Now your answer may just be to restrict immigration from Muslim majority coutnries, which also suffer1s from acute lack of sense. Even forgetting that you'd be screwing over Lebanese or Coptic Christians (we'll call that 'collateral damage, right), you'd have to vet immigrants by country of origin, not just where they directly came from (otherwise they'll just travel through other countries first), and most countries from which people like to emigrate tend not to have very good records, making it impossible to verify whether one is Indian or Pakistani; Bulgarian or Turkish; even Bolivian or Syrian; and also makes it fairly easy for a prospective terrorist to get the right fraudulent documents demonstrating his supposed country of origin.

    Furthermore, simply being Muslim isn't itself a specific enough predictor. Why should we bar immigrants from Malaysia? How often do Malaysian Muslims commit acts of terrorism around the world? I'd speculate not marginally more than people of any other southeast Asian country. But for the above reasons, even restricting immigration from Middle Eastern countries could only be done effectively by stopping immigration altogether. Targeted immigration restriction of this kind is simply not feasible.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    John is the guy who supported Japanese American internment camps and the deportation of German Americans during WWII.

    John, you are an immoral pig.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Finally, some good news:

    Costco sells Ribeye cap now!
    Yep, that's right. Just the cap. It's by far the best part of the cow.

    Guess what I'm having for dinner tonight (and probably tomorrow)?

  • __Warren__||

    Chipoltle?

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Man, I'm getting tired of being right. I've shorted them every week, and I keep winning. I'm going to keep doing it until they're down to 400.

  • __Warren__||

    592? WTF?

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    I have some puts at a strike of 750. I paid 7 bucks.

  • __Warren__||

    Expiry?

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Next Friday. I would hold longer if I could. The only way is down.

  • Mrs. Lemuel Struthers||

    All your ribeye caps are belong to me!

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    If you truly love steak and bourbon, you should be excited about this.

  • ||

    Yum.

    My wife makes a sweet muscadine/habenero hot sauce that I love to put on beef and cook to a glaze. It is so fucking good it will make you cry.

    I know, I know but I am not a steak purist.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Depends. Tenderloin/filet requires a sauce, IMHO.

  • ||

    Negative ole saucy one.

    Loads of black pepper before the fire and a splash of salt during cooking.

    No sauce or knife required.

    I buy them whole trim and cut my own steaks and it's not much pricer than grocery store cheap cuts these days.

    I get them at $6.50 per and there is zero waste.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Not enough fat. You may as well be eating chicken breast.

  • ||

    The best part of the cow as it is in any mammal, is the backstrap, known as tenderloin .

    I buy them whole and cut my own steaks. It's cheap compared to buying it after they Frenchify the name to filet mignon (sp) or whatever.

    They whole cut is eaten and unlike a T-Bone you don't leave half the weight on the plate in bone and grisel.

    No knife needed.

  • EMD||

    Filet mignon is terrible, usually. Overpriced and mushy.

  • ||

    Hollande's going to be unforgiving with the barbarians. Haha, what does that mean, that they get free bread instead of free cake when he invites them to migrate to France and that he'll ban bacon to keep from offending them?

  • ||

    Apparently the Swedes are doing just that. The country is on the verge of collapsing into anarchy and the leadership kneecapped the cops to prevent them from stopping the inflow of invaders.

    It is insanity.

    I have no idea what they are thinking or how they think this will turn out. Angela Merkel is doing about the same thing.

    "No matter how much information they have they cannot draw a sensible conclusion, and this way they cannot defend themselves, their families, or their country." -Bezmenov on useful idiots.

  • ||

    You know it is absolutely insane what the Swedes and most of Europe is doing.

    What are they thinking and why ? I cannot figure it out. Is Merkel taking personal bribes to set her family up for generations to come ?

    It is beyond my simple mind how people can think that importing this many Muslims into their countries is a good thing.

    Population shrinking ? Tax policy to buy more native babies.

  • ||

    Incitives to other Christian based countries (South and Central America) to get their huddled masses to become German.

    Anything but a bunch of non assimilating people raised in a religion/ ideology that teaches them that you are an infidel and that if you don't submit to Islam then you should die. ( or pay tax).

    Submission is the key tenent to Islam.

  • sasob||

    Yeah. Sorta like how if you don't submit to Obamacare, you should pay tax.

  • GamerFromJump||

    Sweden might have finally managed peak derp; they want to ban cash totally, so they are free to impose negative interest.

  • MarkLastname||

    Well then it looks like the NDP is going to have a good year.

    In fairness to Merkel et al., many of these countries have declining labor supplies due to an aging population and overly generous retirement benefits. For them it's immigration of inflation, so it's not just about political ideology; they are, in a purely practical sense, between a rock and a hard place. Though Spain at least could start recruiting Latin American immigrants to avoid some of the socio--cultural issues the other countries face.

  • John||

    It means French Muslims get the screws put to them in ways they have never imagined. I roll me eyes at the people on here who claim that you can't go after every Muslim. Oh yes you can, at least in any country where they are a minority.

  • ||

    What? Hollande will apologize to Muslims and get new laws passed that make it a felony to insult the prophet, or something like that?

    They aren't going to do jackshit because their leftist political correct nonsense that they have been pushing for decades is not going to allow them to. They will never admit they are wrong even after Paris has been burned to the ground. French citizens will be punished for this. Nothing will happen to Muslims, except more will be invited.

  • John||

    Maybe but if he does, he won't be in office very long. What he wants is irrelevant. What matters is the collective will of the nonMuslim French. I think that will is a bit stronger than you think.

  • ||

    Governments are not going to save Europe. The people have to save themselves. They either grow a pair and learn to fight or a caliphate is in their future. You think Hollande cares? Him and his ilk would be just as happy as Imams as they would in the current power roles. Probably more happy, because it's 'easier to govern' in that type of government. The communist thing didn't work out, so a caliphate will do. It's all about power to these sociopaths.

  • Bgoptmst||

    What really concerns me is that this generation of #mizzou morons will set us up for the same failed policies.

    It's okay to be full of shit as long as you don't buy into it. We all know that guy, the big dumb idiot, but what makes him like able is that he knows he is an idiot. It's the people that think their feelings should be acualized by society that are problematic.

  • ||

    I think that will is a bit stronger than you think.

    I'll believe that when I see it.

  • BigT||

    He'll arrest a few hundred and kill a few dozen in police actions. But then the gendarmes will shoot a 6-yr old girl, caught on video, and the whole scheme unravels. Maybe the dope-pope will say something, too.

    You heard it here first.

  • MarkLastname||

    Sounds about right.

  • EMD||

    "But then the gendarmes will shoot a 6-yr old girl, caught on video, and the whole scheme unravels. "

    Wait, they don't have ways of justifying this like our police do?

  • ||

    This

  • Mike M.||

    "Arab Spring."

  • ||

    We can only hope that when this happens in Germany, and it will, guaranteed, or some other country, that some people will finally rise up and there will be severe blowback to this. If there is no one in Europe willing to fight back, then Europe is going back to the dark ages.

  • greenwad||

    Video from 2008 shows a group of people threatening employees at the same music venue. (Assuming the translated captions are correct)

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4d8_1447514351

  • ||

    What a wonderful endorsement of the 2nd.

    If the same happened here in the US do you think LE would place a gurad 24/7 to protect them ?

  • american socialist||

    I have the same reaction to this terrorist attack as I do to when some sexually-frustrated virgin shoots up a college campus.

    I'm for doing nothing. Or close to nothing.

    I'm not for banning guns, I'm not for closing borders, I'm not for stereotyping an entire religion, I'm not for going to war. It's not a perfect analogy, but I'm for utilizing Robby soave's techniques when it comes to racist speech on college campuses. You ignore it, you continue on, you go to parties, you fuck attractive people, you take good drugs, you cook good food, you revel in family, you do good work, you try to be compassionate. By lashing out at these tinpot Islamist assholes you give them license. Fundamentally, they are losers. Big ones. They don't deserve our attention. Look at every one of them and what their family or relatives or coworkers, or neighbors say about them. Most of them couldn't get laid in a harem. Fuck 'em. Their beneath me and my concern.

  • Sevo||

    "lashing out at these tinpot Islamist assholes you give them license."

    It also gives us another TSA to 'make us safe'.
    Dammit, commie-kid, stop posting reasonable content!

  • Mint Berry Crunch||

    I expected you to say "I'm for addressing climate change because it contributes to terrorism."

  • ||

    In a sane world, if a group of so callled 'leaders'' ran around the world meddling in the affairs of others and created unsolvable messes and immigration crisis, then blamed it on the weather, they would be hanged in public after being tarred and feathered.

  • Brian||

    but I'm for utilizing Robby soave's techniques when it comes to racist speech on college campuses. You ignore it, you continue on,


    brian, how long of a list do you want of Southern politicians who covered their racism and appeals to racism with arguments about limiting the power of the federal government? and you would have stood there right with them with libertarian position paper arguments about how private discrimination everywhere should be legal.

    its not that you are racist, brian, but if we had listened to guys like you there would still be apartheid and lynchings in alabama today along with libertarians who would make arguments that there is nothing the government should do about it.

    Jeez, Am Soc. You're so selective about your revolution to PC arguments.

    Wanna make another "ching-chang" joke?

  • Brian||

    .

  • american socialist||

    "Close to nothing"...

    ...As in I would certainly prosecute people who commit crimes. I'm for changing laws so that Black people don't ride at the back of a bus. Yes, also, I do think that there should be laws that prohibit Woolworth's from not seating Black people at the lunch counter. Is that equivalent in your estimate to a proposal to invade Syria? Let me know.

  • Sevo||

    Yep, busted.

  • Brian||

    Yeah, I get it, Amsoc:

    Libertarians are horrible racist enablers for their "limited government" approach.

    However, when you're actually racist, it's totally hip and cool to be that un-PC (the "Lets vote for Trump!" philosophy).

    And libertarians getting into a big huff over a few dozen murdered people is completely ridiculous and unprincipled.

    But libertarians willing to let segregated lunch counters die in the market place, instead of living in the false reality of a country that's only a few inches of freedom away from lynchings? They just don't want a big enough government.

    I think there's definitely a unprincipled, hypocritical, racist position being presented here, but I'm not sure its the libertarians doing it. Well, maybe. You are one of us, right?

  • BigT||

    Amsoc's you actually made sense! You must have learned something here.

    "Fundamentally, they are losers. Big ones. They don't deserve our attention. "

    They do deserve our attention. We need to have first rate, thorough intelligence on them. We need to be able to neutralize the ones that threaten to destabilize the region or get their hands on nukes. Carefully chosen drone strikes are a pretty good option.

  • MarkLastname||

    Well, it's not like somewhere out there there's a coalition of psychotic college kids sending their psychotic college kids in coordinated attacks to kill lots of people. Nor would I say 'racist speech' is remotely akin to bullets and bombs.

    I may not decidedly disagree with you, but I don't decidedly agree with you either. There's the occasional random and aimless act of violence that little could be done about even if we wanted to. Then there's Hitler invading Poland, in which case doing nothing is clearly not an option. Situations like this one are somewhere in between.

  • Win Bear||

    I'm not for banning guns, I'm not for closing borders, I'm not for stereotyping an entire religion, I'm not for going to war.

    Then you are not a socialist. So you are either a liar or terribly confused.

  • The artist known Dunphy||

    Hollande is being far from PC

    people are simply wrong

    He has declared war and he has called the perps Barbarians

    I happen to speak French so I've watched a few French language broadcasts

    Both the French govt and the French people I have seen interviewed are not being PC , morally relativistic or squishy in the slightest

    Admittedly, I do not understand all the slang and idioms but the tone and word choice among those I understand is FAR from PC or Kumbaya
    There was a lot of latent built up animosity and the burka ban/backlash, the riots, etc have used up French hospitality and grace

    They are fucking pissed off and using the language of revenge

    The sleeping frog has been awakened

  • ||

    He has declared war

    Haaahhaahaaa, haaahaaaahaah, Haaahhaahaaa, haaahaaaahaah, Haaahhaahaaa, haaahaaaahaah, Haaahhaahaaa, haaahaaaahaah, Haaahhaahaaa, haaahaaaahaah, Haaahhaahaaa, haaahaaaahaah, Haaahhaahaaa, haaahaaaahaah, Haaahhaahaaa, haaahaaaahaah, Haaahhaahaaa, haaahaaaahaah, Haaahhaahaaa, haaahaaaahaah, Haaahhaahaaa, haaahaaaahaah, O gawd, make it stop, Haaahhaahaaa, haaahaaaahaah, Haaahhaahaaa, haaahaaaahaah, Haaahhaahaaa, haaahaaaahaah, Haaahhaahaaa, haaahaaaahaah...

  • Jerry on the rocks||

    And then half of the perpetrators turn out to be French-born citizens. What is Hollande going to do then, nuke Clichy-sous-Bois?

  • EMD||

    That doesn't sound so bad.

  • BigT||

    I doubt they will have staying power. Let a couple of tres jeune filles get shot by the gendarmes as bystanders and they'll fold.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    When are you going to learn english?

  • Sevo||

    English is hard.

  • DEG||

    I'm wrapping up a bottle of this as I get some house work done. It's OK, but not the best of the series. Mokah and Choklat are the best of the series.

  • DEG||

    Well... I think the alcohol is starting to affect me. Let me try again. This is the beer I'm finishing up.

  • DEG||

    On beer, I stumbled on this post on Beeradvocate. Someone found Jameson's aged in stout barrels.

  • __Warren__||

    What's the difference between aging the whiskey in the barrels and just putting a little stout into the whiskey as it's bottled?

  • DEG||

    Probably just a little bit of flavor from the wood.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    WWDD?

    (What Would Dubya Do?)

    Instead of attacking ISIS he would attack - the Kurds maybe. Or Jamaica.

  • ||

    Maybe he would arm the good terrorists and create an immigration crisis in Europe.

    Obama gooooddddddd, Boosh baaaadddddd.

    The new Butthead derp, same as the old Butthead derp.

    He's cuckoo for cankles, he's cuckoo for cankles.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Quit stalking me, you pervert.

    I know you're a Dubya fan, but this is his legacy. Here read this:

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2.....d-to-isis/

    Get some knowledge, son! Don't barrel through life a dumbass!

  • ||

    Meh, you are such a bore. You're not even fun anymore in all of your blubbering ignorance.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    You just linked to addictinginfo.org as a source, and then told somebody else to get some knowledge.

    I don't even need to comment on it. Just describing what you did is sufficient.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    The decision to invade Iraq, which had been contained by the no-fly zone created by the George H.W. Bush and Clinton administrations and unable to threaten its neighbors or the West, created a power vacuum in the Middle East which had been filled by Saddam Hussein until the invasion in March o 2003.

    True

  • ||

    Buttface sources are always the typical leftist retard sources, nothing new to see here.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    The Bush administration believed it could install Ahmed Chalabi – part of the public relations campaign to sell the Iraq War to America – as leader of the new government, but he had been outside of the country so long they never accepted him. He was viewed as a “western stooge.”

    True.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Almost all of the leaders of ISIS have connections to the former Iraqi government, mostly coming from the military of the Saddam Hussein regime:

    Abu Hamza, who became the group’s ruler in a small community in Syria, never discovered the Iraqis’ real identities, which were cloaked by code names or simply not revealed. All of the men, however, were former Iraqi officers who had served under Saddam Hussein, including the masked man, who had once worked for an Iraqi intelligence agency and now belonged to the Islamic State’s own shadowy security service, he said.

    True.

  • Palin's Buttplug||


    Paul Bremer, who was the appointed head of Iraq by the Bush administration, passed the de-Baathification law which sent Iraqi army members into the populace, eventually becoming insurgents and terrorists:

    The de-Baathification law promulgated by L.­ Paul Bremer, Iraq’s American ruler in 2003, has long been identified as one of the contributors to the original insurgency. At a stroke, 400,000 members of the defeated Iraqi army were barred from government employment, denied pensions — and also allowed to keep their guns.

    Also true.

  • ||

    It doesn't matter what the subject is, in this case, terror attacks in Paris. It could be the price of eggs in Bhutan or the latest mega dino bones find in Patagonia, and the derpbot would somehow relate it either to something great Obama has done or something bad that Bush did.

    It's not sentient.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    And you are here to defend the Bushpigs - 24/7. Every day.

  • fuckyougotmine||

    It doesn't matter what the subject is, in this case, terror attacks in Paris. It could be the price of eggs in Bhutan or the latest mega dino bones find in Patagonia, and the [average libertarian] would somehow relate it either to something great [Bush] has done or something bad that [Obama] did.

    It's not sentient.

  • Sevo||

    "... and the [average libertarian] would somehow relate it [...]to something great [Bush] has done"

    I see you're not only an ignorant piece of shit, but a liar besides.

  • ||

    You already knew that Sevo.

    Don;t act like it just dawned on you.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    The Bush administration created a power vacuum in the Middle East, then made it worse with wrongheaded decision making while occupying Iraq. Those dispersed fighters formed the insurgency which killed thousands of Americans until 2009, and then the backbone of ISIS, which now has killed thousands

  • BigT||

    You can't blame only W. IIRC 79 Senators, including Kerry and the Hildebeast, gave him carte Blanche to go to war. Bush et al DO have to take the blame for over-staying their welcome and nation building, which btw was very strongly supported by the lib media. I blame Cheney, Rummy, Rice, and Powell for poor advice

  • John Titor||

    Forget it. Bush is to PB what the Devil is to a fundamentalist Christian. His hate doesn't have to make any reasonable sense and the complexities of the situation don't matter, he's just an entity that Buttplug screams at to make himself feel better.

  • MarkLastname||

    So, Obama didn't arm Islamist militants in order to destablilize Syria? He didn't overthrow the Lybian government, paving the way for an ISIS party there?

    This situation is, more than any other president, Obama's legacy; indeed, it's a great example of the legacy of this administration's foreign policy. That you continue to fellate him even now just tells us how good his cum must taste.

  • MSimon||

    The mullahs of Iran are a Jimmy Carter legacy. That was a "Persian Spring " gone bad. It is not like there haven't been precedents for the "Arab Spring".

    But we also have Reagan's Iran-Contra. which didn't help.

  • Brian||

    Palin's Buttplug:

    WWDD?

    (What Would Dubya Do?)

    Instead of attacking ISIS he would attack - the Kurds maybe. Or Jamaica.

    Maybe it's just me, but...

    I'm pretty sure GWB would attack ISIS.

    Especially if it happened in the US. But, then, so would Obama or Hillary. And they're already attacking ISIS now.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    You know who else said they would attack ISIS?

  • Free Society||

    At least one attacker has been linked to the wave of Syrian refugees:

    Well gee wiz.

  • Greerg||

    One unnamed U.S. intelligence official suggests to CBS News that the Syrian passport linking one terrorist to the refugee stream is fake.

    No. From the link:

    However, a U.S. intelligence official told CBS News the Syrian passport might be fake. The official said the passport did not contain the correct numbers for a legitimate Syrian passport and the picture did not match the name.

    How do they know the picture doesn't match the name,anyway?

  • BigT||

    Yeah. Why would a suicide bomber bring a passport to work?

  • EMD||

    Must've been one of the gunmen, not a bomber.

  • Mike M.||

    Looks like this may have pushed Weigel over the edge for good.

  • jester||

    I thought the NSA would have been onto them. They definitely have it in their haystack. Right?

  • John Titor||

    So, how much longer til the ol' 'Pershing Islamic Murder Sausage' legend becomes reality?

  • foghornleghorn||

    The French will do exactly two things after this: jack and shit. Hollande will talk a big game but he is a pussy. The frogs are pissed because their own have died but the first time a raghead kid is killed, they'll fold faster than a paper towel.

  • Sanjuro Tsubaki||

    I'm sure he'll hunt them all down himself with a hatchett. This man is desperate.

  • Pan Zagloba||

    So Paris hasn't suffered enough?

    Area man brings piano to scene of atrocity, plays Imagine

    Is there a modern Kafka to keep up with the absurdities?

  • ||

    Out of all the songs.

  • Sevo||

    Coulda been "Bring On the Clowns".

  • MetalBard||

    I'm sure ISIS felt very moved. Could you have imagined (drink!) a better to tell the Islamists that we are a bunch of pussies who won't do shit to stop you?

  • MSimon||

    Hollande: "This time it is war"

    Because a few Jews and crazy cartoonists do not matter.

    Evidently not all the French collaborationists were eradicated in 1945.

  • XM||

    ISIS claims "responsibility" for these attacks, but is there any way to be sure? How do we know some random cells or radicalized individuals didn't act on their own?

    If they're right, then that means they trained all six of them and either provided them with resources outright or gave them money to purchase the guns, fake passports, etc.

    That's something that Reason doesn't quite understand. Mass shooting and acts of terror are rare, but only one of them is an anomaly.

  • jimmyrustler||

    so will reason double down on open borders or not?

  • jimmyrustler||

    so will reason double down on open borders or not?

  • eyeroller||

    Terrorism is basically a game where you trick your opponent into foolishly overreacting.

  • Mike M.||

    No, it isn't. This is the trite old pussy rationalization for doing nothing. Terrorism is the method of warfare used by the weak. If the Muslims nations were strong enough and had conventional armies capable of defeating the west, they would be using them.

  • MetalBard||

    Thats retarded. Terrorism is a tool to get your opponent to do what you want. When they attacked those Danish cartoonists who drew pictures of Mohamed they did it to force people to stop drawing pictures of Mohamed, and you know what? It worked. How many newspapers cowered and refused to reprint them? Even South Park had to censor images of Mohamed as a result.

    The terrorists' goals are exactly what they say they are, and their methods work every time some pussy decides to cave in to their ridiculous demands.

  • simplybe||

    The Islamic State is the true nature of Islam. Read the Koran. Study their history. Luckily for the West most Muslims are like most Christians, when only practice their belief on Holy days if then. What most people won't tell tell you is that Iran is mainly a threat to the Sunni states because they are in a Holy War for the soul of Islam. Saudi Arabia is our true enemy. If it weren't for our bought and paid for government we would have leveled Saudi Arabia after 9/11. Until we of the West do something to counter the radicals in Saudi Arabia the terror will keep on happening. Just check the money the Saudi's give to our elected officials and especially to our probable next President through the Clinton Foundation which all the organizations that monitor charities say is a joke. The Clinton Foundation is just another scam that the rich use to not pay taxes.

  • Mike M.||

    By the way, some of these Arab Muslim countries are among the wealthiest countries on earth (yes, with a lot of inequality, but still also tremendous wealth). Countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the UAE, Kuwait, and Brunei.

    Why don't these rich, predominantly Sunni Muslim countries take in some of these so-called "refugees"? These are culturally their people after all.

    The answer of course is they don't want them because they know full well that many of them are violent, psychotic jihadi murderers!

  • MSimon||

    Daily Beast

    Scott Atran, an anthropologist frequently consulted by U.S. government agencies and the military, sees the struggle again ISIS primarily in ideological terms. He has studied closely, for instance, the work that guides much of the group’s strategizing, The Management of Savagery by Abu Bakr Naji, published almost 10 years ago. A typical maxim from that treatise: “Work to expose the weakness of America’s centralized power by pushing it to abandon the media psychological war and the war by proxy until it fights directly.” That is, suck U.S. troops into the fight.

    Were there any doubt about that strategy, Atran tells The Daily Beast, it should have been dispelled by a piece that appeared in the ISIS online magazine Dabiq this year.

    “The Gray Zone” was a 10-page editorial describing, as Atran puts it, “the twilight area occupied by most Muslims between good and evil, the Caliphate and the Infidel,” which the “blessed operations of September 11” brought into relief, as Bin Laden had declared.

  • MSimon||

    “The world today is divided,” wrote Dabiq. George W. Bush “spoke the truth when he said, ‘Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists.’” Only the actual “terrorists” supposedly are the “Western crusaders.” And now, “the time had come for another event to ... bring division to the world and destroy the Gray Zone,” of which the Paris attacks are just the latest, most spectacular installment.

    As ISIS evaluated the attacks, Atran tells us, they are positive on three fronts: 1) they help erase the gray line; 2) they exacerbate antagonism toward Muslims in Europe (“The more hate there is the happier ISIS is”); and they send a message to restive young people that without huge effort they can sow massive chaos—they can impact their world.

  • MSimon||

    2) they exacerbate antagonism toward Muslims in Europe (“The more hate there is the happier ISIS is”);

  • MetalBard||

    Which is unavoidable, which is why there are not going to be any happy endings here, either the governments in Europe are going to have to take drastic measures to prevent anymore of this bullshit, or if they don't their citizens will and we're going to end up with some small scale civil war on our hands.

    Maybe it's best to do things now while Europeans still have the numbers on their side.

  • MSimon||

    It will not be limited to a civil war. It will be Islam vs Europe on a large scale. Well larger scale.

  • space junk||

    Since ISIS apparently does not like the term Daesh, can we now refer to them as Daeshbags?

  • MSimon||

    The stunned New York customer wrote on Twitter: "For 25 minutes I had to tell this stranger, this human being like you and I, that he was not part of what was happening.

    "He cried the whole way to my apartment and it made me cry too. He kept saying, 'Allah, my god, does not believe in this. People think I'm a part of this and I'm not'."

    [New York] Man describes 'saddest moment' after getting into taxi with crying Muslim driver following Paris attacks

  • ||

    So, like, how about the Assad Regime? I really think it's like SO IMPORTANT that he be removed from power. We can't let this ISIS situation interfere with our efforts to support the Arab Spring and democracy and stuff. Assad is BAD, really, really, bad, and we should never have supported him, or sold him chemical weapons.

  • AnonymousCoward532||

    I wonder if ISIS tries to attack the G-20 summit today given how they've become more emboldened over the past two weeks. Playing conspiracy theory for a moment, that's if these haven't been false flag ops. Of course, I can't offer any evidence of that. All of this seems to be playing to interventionist candidates. If one believe the polls, this seems to helping Clinton. I think this benefits Rubio on the GOP side as he can spin it better than Trump or Carson. Sadly, we'll go after these groups and it will just result in more instability. Makes me question the point of participating in politics. It's all tit for tat high school bullshit between the beliigerents.

  • Tejicano||

    Maybe it won't come to it any time soon but I believe that at some point the muslim world is going to have to split and each muslim will have to take a stand - are they for this kind of terrorism or against it? Wherever they live and make their home - do they agree with this global jihad or not?

    Up to now they have basically been given a pass when they say there is no central authority, no one organization which speaks for muslims. And I understand that this is pretty much the truth in their religion. But we are at the point (probably past it) where baby will have to be separated from bathwater - or get thrown out with it. It would be nice if we could depend on countries which are predominately muslim to both declare where they are and push this decision on their people - and I believe that something should be done to nudge them in that direction.

    Imagine if the shoe were on the other foot - if private organizations in the US were preaching violent retribution against people in foreign countries, training its members to carry out mass murder, and sending them to foreign destinations to blow up train stations and mosques. Nobody would accept the US government just washing its hands and saying "not our problem". And if most Americans publicly just shrugged their shoulders and said "boys will be boys" - how far would that fly in the international press?

  • PetraRawls||

    Im making over $9k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life. This is what I do,

    ---------- http://www.onlinejobs100.com

GET REASON MAGAZINE

Get Reason's print or digital edition before it’s posted online