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Will Ben Carson's Ideas About the Endtimes Scare Away Evangelical Voters? Don't Count On It

The religious right has long been willing to put politics ahead of doctrinal differences.

Here's a headline at Mother Jones today:

Congratulations, Mother Jones Web team: Your headline reeled me in! But the article beneath the title hasn't convinced me that social conservatives are about to fall out of love with Ben Carson's candidacy.

David Corn's piece begins by pointing out that Carson now leads the Republican race in Iowa and that much of his strength there comes from evangelical Protestants. "Yet it is odd that Carson has done so well with evangelicals," Corn says, "when he is a high-profile and devoted member of a church that teaches that almost all evangelical Christians will soon join with Satan to oppose Jesus Christ":

Infographic!Seventh Day Adventist Publishing AssociationSeventh-day Adventists hold that the Sabbath should be worshipped on Saturday and that religions that observe the Sabbath on Sunday have been corrupted by Satan. The church's early prophet Ellen White cast much of the blame for this supposed perversion of the Sabbath on the Roman Catholic Church.

White's prophecies—rendered in the 1800s—are regarded as sacrosanct by the church. She predicted that when Jesus Christ returns to earth, per the Book of Revelation, and triggers the final and cataclysmic clash between God and the Antichrist, a paramount battle will be over the Sabbath. She foresaw the government doing the devil's bidding by outlawing the Saturday Sabbath, locking up Seventh-day Adventists, and even threatening them with death. And she prophesized that other Christian denominations would hold fast to the Sunday Sabbath and become handmaidens of Satan. Ultimately, Jesus Christ would vanquish Beelzebub, and only Seventh-day Adventists, because they stuck with the Saturday Sabbath, would join him in the kingdom of God. The other Christians? Well, they would be forever condemned....

Fundamentalist religions tend to cast their way as the only way. That's the nature of such churches. It is not a huge surprise that Seventh-day Adventists say nonbelievers will be screwed in the End Times. Yet true-believing Seventh-day Adventists take a dim view of other Christian religions and hold what is essentially a dark conspiracy theory: that the government will target them for imprisonment and, possibly, execution.

I do not know how closely Carson's view of the endtimes matches White's. I agree that it would be interesting to find out. But I doubt that any of this will do much harm to Carson's popularity among evangelical voters. The members of the religious right are well aware that they do not all agree on theology, and they've had decades of experience negotiating the tricky terrain created by an alliance among people with doctrinal differences.

That's one of the themes of a brand-new book I've been reading, Neil J. Young's We Gather Together: The Religious Right and the Problem of Interfaith Politics. Before the 1970s, Young notes, conservative Catholics, evangelicals, and Mormons disapproved of the ecumenical approach to religion that was gaining steam among liberal Christians and Jews. Yet their initial response was not to form a counter-alliance of their own. "They appreciated one another's efforts—they thought it necessary to attack the ecumenical monolith from all sides—but they passed on joining forces," Young writes. "Indeed, since their challenges to ecumenism sprang from their own particular theological claims and traditions, a coordinated religious response was impossible."

But as America's

But not just fundamentalism, see.Timecivic ethos shifted from pluralism to secularism in the 1970s, at least as far as conservative Christians saw it, anti-ecumenists reassessed their relationship with each other, recognizing their shared cultural positions and moral convictions. Separately, conservative evangelicals, Mormons, and Catholics decried the breakdown of the traditional heterosexual family; fretted about changing gender roles and the strength of the women's movement and feminism; denounced sexual permissiveness, abortion liberalization, and the normalizing of homosexuality; and inveighed against government encroachments on individual rights, free enterprise, and religious liberty. In doing so, they again perceived themselves as outsiders fighting the cultural and political consensus. But this political crisis, they reasoned, was different. Because it was not, at heart, a conflict over theology, it allowed for more cooperation among them.

And in that way, the modern religious right was born. It was always an alliance of people willing to put their political agreements ahead of their religious disagreements.

One possible objection to this argument is that Adventists have not traditionally been a part of the religious-right coalition. Indeed, until the 1990s their church supported the group Americans United for Separation of Church and State, an organization that was about as popular as Playboy within the Falwell coalition. But 2015 is not 1980, and coalitions are always shifting their shapes and sizes.

If you'll take Romney, you'll take me.Gage Skidmore / FoterAnother objection is that there are limits to how far afield a religious-right voter will go, theologically speaking. It will surely be a long time before a Muslim wins the Iowa caucus, no matter how socially conservative he might be. But while it's not hard to find Christians claiming that Carson's church is a cult, just as activists issued similar warnings about Mitt Romney's Mormonism four years ago, the fact remains that the most popular candidate with Republican evangelicals this time around is Carson and not, say, Mike Huckabee. It is of course possible that a substantial number of these voters do not know what denomination Carson follows, and there is even a chance that they do not know just how distant Adventist views are from their own. But I suspect that most of them are much more aware of such issues than most outsiders, including both me and David Corn.

We'll see how Carson's popularity among evangelicals fares as Corn's questions wend their way into the mainstream media. But if you want proof that the religious right is willing to overlook even enormous doctrinal differences, just think back to the first presidential election in which the movement really flexed its political muscles. In 1980, the Democrats nominated a born-again Southern Baptist who had attracted most of the evangelical vote four years earlier. The Republicans nominated a twice-married movie star who belonged to a theologically liberal church and had been influenced by Transcendentalist and even New Age doctrines. Who did the religious right back? Ronald Reagan, of course.

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  • R C Dean||

    It raises an interesting question:

    Would we be worse off with a President who has little to no actual management experience and a number of fringe views,

    or one who is a well-known sociopathic liar who has either failed spectacularly or been a nonentity in every position to date?

    IOW, who would make a worse President: Obama, or Hillary?

  • Rich||

    Before I answer: Did you mean to write "Obama"?

  • R C Dean||

    Did Obama have "little to no actual management experience and a number of fringe views" when he ran for President?

  • lap83||

    which is which?

  • ||

    Oh, I didn't know Carson was SDA. They're a special kind of crazy.

  • AlmightyJB||

    A female prophet? I would say so.

  • Bern-o-Matic 5000||

    Wait, which one of those is Obama?

  • Bern-o-Matic 5000||

    Argh, this was in response to RC's question. Damn you, squirrels!

  • R C Dean||

    Is Obama " a well-known sociopathic liar who has either failed spectacularly or been a nonentity in every position to date"?

  • AlmightyJB||

    Kasich doesn't feel your pain

    http://www.cincinnati.com/stor...../74636402/

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Who did the religious right back? Ronald Reagan, of course.

    Who, like his wife Nancy, is currently burning in Hell for the sin of consulting astrologer Jeane Dixon, in clear violation of Leviticus 19:31, 20:6, and Deuteronomy 18:9-14.

  • Mickey Rat||

    I am thinking this article reveals more about the problems with David Korn's approach to people with different philosophies of life than him than it does about Ben Carson's.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    Isn't it ironic that a brain surgeon would follow the teachings of someone that was literally brain damaged.

  • AlmightyJB||

    He who walks behind the rows will not be pleased

  • Rich||

    Is that like "He who farts in church sits in pew"?

  • Homple||

    The members of the religious right are well aware that they do not all agree on theology, and they've had decades of experience negotiating the tricky terrain created by an alliance among people with doctrinal differences.

    If only libertarians could learn to do this.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Blasphemy! You are a defiler and profaner!

  • AlmightyJB||

    Blasphemy! You are a defiler and profaner!

  • Hugh Akston||

    If only libertarians could learn to lend their unconditional support to the party that can't get enough warfare, welfare, violent prohibitions, and onerous regulation of every aspect of peoples' live, why they could someday get a major party candidate to pay lip service to their beliefs before putting them all in concentration camps.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    I, too, like to concentrate without lip service

  • Homple||

    I don't believe that "an alliance among people with doctrinal differences" means lending unconditional support to anybody but I could be wrong. I think "alliance" implies voluntary cooperation, not voluntary subjugation but I am old and haven't kept up with how the kids talk these days.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "She foresaw the government doing the devil's bidding by outlawing the Saturday Sabbath, locking up Seventh-day Adventists, and even threatening them with death. And she prophesized that other Christian denominations would hold fast to the Sunday Sabbath and become handmaidens of Satan."

    If you guys wanna sometimes actually talk to some Adventists (before you write silly things about them), feel free to email me, and I'll be happy to put you in touch with some real live Adventists.

    This isn't about prophecy. This is just straight from the Bible.

    The 144,000 are those still on God's side at the end of time. There are two identifying characteristics of the 144,000. It says they 1) have the testimony of Jesus Christ and 2) that they keep the commandments.

    Revelation 12:17

    One of the ten commandments is the Fourth Commandment. It reads:

    "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath. In it, thou shall not do any work. Thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

  • Ken Shultz||

    The Catholics changed the ten commandments by the authority of the Pope (starting with Constantine) and shortened the Fourth commandment to read "Remember the Sabbath" in its entirety.

    Adventists believe that the 144,000 will be made up of people of all religions. In fact, there won't be any denominations anymore at the end of time. By that time, there will only be those who are on on God's side and those who are against him. Those who are on God's side will be keeping all ten commandments--and not the altered version championed by the Catholic church. You know, the version God wrote with his own hand and gave to Moses on Mt. Sinai?

    None of this has anything to do with Ellen White. This is strictly from the Bible.

  • Hugh Akston||

    So wait, do they wield the Light side of the Force or the Dark side?

  • CampingInYourPark||

    Sorry, but it's still a stupid reading of a commandment. Do you see anything there that says anything about the 7th day of the week in a Roman calendar?

  • Ken Shultz||

    Jews haven't had any problem keeping track of which day God told them to worship since before the Babylonian captivity. It's the one of the things the Jews who came back to rebuild the temple and the Jews that were still there from before the Babylonian captivity agreed on.

  • Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair||

    So what happens when a Christian crosses the International Date line and loses / gains a day?

  • Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair||

    Hell, for that matter, what about Christains, Jews, and Muslims in orbit? What day are they on? Do Muslims break out the prayer rug 5 times every 90 minutes? How do any of them square regular praying with losing or gaining a Sunday / Saturday / Friday / Sabbath when they cross the line? How do they figure sundown Friday to Sunup Sunday when in orbit, or in a submarine and they can't see the moon rise / set for Easter?

  • Ken Shultz||

    Well, I don't know. Why don't we ask David Corn? He seems to know everything about Adventists (except for even the first thing).

    I'm going to go with, as a seriously Protestant religion, Adventists believe in the priesthood of believers. That means you have to use your own head.

    They believer that there's a truth out there, they believe the commandments were written as is by God, and they believe that they'll be judged individually or by the grace of God through their faith in Jesus.

    So it's between them and God. It isn't like Catholicism, where the Pope tells you what's right and what's wrong. If you're in a situation like that, use your head. Some religious people find that prospect scary. Adventists, not so much.

  • sharmota4zeb||

    A Jew in orbit is supposed to use Jerusalem time when it comes to the time based commandments.

  • ||

    I heard from a Muslim co-worker that Muslims should follow Mecca time when they are in orbit.

  • R C Dean||

    Dude, do you seriously think the Jews haven't figured out all the angles on this by now? Give them a little credit, they aren't going to say "OMG, I crossed the international date line and now I don't know what day it is and I don't what the Sabbath is and I'm going to burn in hell AAAAAAGH."

  • Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair||

    Well duh, why do you think I asked? If you are just trynig to say you don't know, thanks. A lot.

  • Hugh Akston||

    Also, do Adventists consider the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force to be canon? Or is that part of the retconned apocrypha?

  • Ken Shultz||

    Anyone who finds fault with Carson because he has a religion should continue to do so.

    Those who find fault with him because of the particulars of his beliefs should know something about his beliefs before finding fault with them.

    Certainly, anyone who gets the facts of Adventistism wrong in a public forum should expect to see those points corrected.

  • LarryPPy||

    Carson's reaction to the crap that trump is throwing at him is absolutely priceless http://newsdailynow.com/2015/10/26/trump-carson/ and some of the junk that trump is saying is ridiculous. What he was saying about carson's religion was ridiculous

  • Ken Shultz||

    "The church's early prophet Ellen White cast much of the blame for this supposed perversion of the Sabbath on the Roman Catholic Church."

    This is not the wild idea of a 19th Century prophet.

    This is an historical fact.

    Roman pagans had certain times of the year, certain days of the week, and certain times of day that they liked to do things. People liked to get married in June because of Juno--the goddess of family and matrimonial love, for instance.

    When Constantine started bringing the pagans into the church, the day of worship was one of the things he started to change--because Saturday was a toughie for pagans. Saturn was an insane god who ate his own children. It was like Friday the 13th came every week. Sunday, on the other hand, was the day of Apollo, god of wisdom, poetry, etc. Much better day for pagans!

    This is also attested to in Romance languages. In Spanish, for instance, the word for Saturday is "Sabado, which means "Sabbath". This shows that the day was changed after the people with that linguistic legacy had been Christianized.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Accusing Adventists of believing that the Catholic church changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday because of what some prophet wrote is like accusing them of believing that Washington defeated the Hessians at the Battle of Trenton. It's an historical fact.

    Go look up the ten commandments in the Catholic version of the Bible. They've gotten rid of the part that specifies which day is the Sabbath because it was embarrassing. (They also got rid of the commandment about graven images.)

  • Notorious UGCC||

    "On the seventh day God completed the work he had been doing; he rested on the seventh day from all the work he had undertaken.

    "God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work he had done in creation."


    "Remember the sabbath day—keep it holy.

    "Six days you may labor and do all your work,

    "but the seventh but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God. You shall not do any work, either you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your work animal, or the resident alien within your gates.

    "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them; but on the seventh day he rested.g That is why the LORD has blessed the sabbath day and made it holy."

  • Notorious UGCC||

    "For six days work may be done; but the seventh day is a sabbath of complete rest, a declared holy day; you shall do no work. It is the LORD’s sabbath wherever you dwell."

    All of this, of course, is from The New American Bible, Revised Edition, a Catholic translation, as the links will show.

    And from the Catechism:

    " Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:

    "Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death."

  • Ken Shultz||

    According to the Catechism, this is the entirety of the Fourth Commandment:

    "Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy".

    Here's the link:

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/.....ommand.htm

  • Ken Shultz||

    They also got rid of the one about graven images completely and split the Tenth Commandment about "Thou shalt not covet" in two--so they could keep ten commandments.

  • Notorious UGCC||

    Look again - the Catechism quotes from Exodus:

    "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    Six days you shall labor, and do all your work;
    but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God;
    in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son,
    or your daughter, your manservant,
    or your maidservant or your cattle,
    or the sojourner who is within your gates;
    for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth,
    the sea, and all that is in them,
    and rested the seventh day;
    therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it."

  • Notorious UGCC||

    A bunch of early Church fathers - lots of them before Constantine - testified to the Christian use of Sunday as a holy day. These fathers seemed to be under the impression that Christ, not Constantine, made Sunday a special day by getting resurrected on it.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I appreciate that there are...um...convoluted...um...justifications people go through...

    They had to rewrite the ten commandments--because the ones God wrote by hand, apparently, weren't good enough?

    Adventists are too Protestant for a lot of protestants. They believe the Bible is the ultimate authority on religious questions, and the ten commandments say what they say. They're the standard by which Jesus was judged, and Revelation says they'll be kept by the people at the end of time. Some Adventists would rather be burned at the stake than cross themselves in front of a statue for the same reason. The real commandments, not the ones the Catholics rewrote, say not to do that.

    Sunday isn't the only thing like this. Christmas isn't on December 25 by accident. It's the holy day for Mithras. Why not bring the Mithras worshipers into the fold? We can celebrate birth of their god on December 25th! But let's just call him Jesus instead of Mitrhas, m-kay?

    My understanding is that there are a number of well preserved Mithraeum in Rome--because they built churches right on top of them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraeum

  • Ken Shultz||

    Yeah, there may have been some debate before, the but Bible says what it says--regardless of what the church fathers said. And the ten commandments say what they say, and every time you break one of them--it's like you're crucifying Jesus all over again. Jesus had to die because I broke a commandment.

    That's why the lamb was slain on the day of atonement. That's why the lamb's blood was flecked on the ten commandments that were sitting on the ark on the day of atonement. That's why Jesus was killed--on the day of atonement. Believing in the importance of Jesus' sacrifice is what being a Christian is all about--and Ken Shultz breaking a commandment is why Jesus had to die. Take that seriously and be forgiven, or...

    You're not going to convince an Adventist that the standard by which we and Jesus are judged can be fiddled with by the Pope and the church fathers. That commandment was written by God's own hand. The sacrificial law was fulfilled with Jesus' death and resurrection, but the ten commandments didn't change.

  • Notorious UGCC||

    "You're not going to convince an Adventist that the standard by which we and Jesus are judged can be fiddled with by the Pope and the church fathers."

    Again, you started by claiming that Constantine switched it to Sunday.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I said that's when the switch really started and started to become enshrined in practice.

    Are you going to tell me that Constantine didn't make any effort to merge pagan belief with Christianity?

    "Later in 321, Constantine instructed that Christians and non-Christians should be united in observing the venerable day of the sun, or Sunday referring to the sun-worship that Aurelian had established as an official cult. Furthermore, and long after his oft alleged conversion to Christianity, Constantine's coinage continued to carry the symbols of the sun.

    Even after the pagan gods had disappeared from the coinage, Christian symbols appeared only as Constantine's personal attributes: the chi rho between his hands or on his labarum, but never on the coin itself.[217] Even when Constantine dedicated the new capital of Constantinople, which became the seat of Byzantine Christianity for a millennium, he did so wearing the Apollonian sun-rayed Diadem; no Christian symbols were present at this dedication.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Constantine_the_Great #Religious_policy

    Why ignore that?

  • Notorious UGCC||

    Again, I simply showed that the Church had replaced Saturday with Sunday long before Constantine came along.

  • Ken Shultz||

    And I showed that the day was switched, in earnest, beginning with Constantine.

    Heck, in the early part of the Roman Empire period, Christians were assumed to be Jews. They kept the Sabbath, and do you know why Christians were sometimes sentenced to death?

    Because they wouldn't bow to idols!

    Have you ever read Pliny's letters to the emperor about what to do with Christians that won't bow to an idol?

    I'm not convinced that your early church fathers actually rewrote the ten commandments or somehow thought they weren't important--just because they reverenced Sunday becasue Jesus rose that day (instead of because it was traditionally Apollo's day). But even if they did, why that means I should ignore the ten commandments and obey the Pope is beyond me.

  • Notorious UGCC||

    All that I purport to show with my links is that the Church switched from Saturday to Sunday before the time of poor old Constantine.

    And that the Catholic Church didn't cover up the fact that the Jewish Sabbath was on the 7th day.

    A more detailed apologetic is probably online somewhere.

  • Notorious UGCC||

    I also feel a bit awkward intervening in what is essentially a dispute *among Protestants.*

    The Seventh Day Adventists are simply one of many examples of a Protestant denomination accusing most of the other Protestants of clinging to some Romanist superstition, and demanding that other Protestants get with the program and renounce this or that allegedly Catholic practice.

    So the Baptists attack the other Protestants for the papist practice of baptizing infants.

    The low-church Protestants blame the high-church Protestants for using bishops, in imitation of the Catholics.

    The early Quakers - and many Quakers today - blame other Protestants for retaining Catholic practices like sacraments, oaths and ministers.

    And the Seventh Day Adventists claim that just about every other Protestant group is contaminated by the Romish observance of Sunday.

    I think I'll let the Protestants debate these matters amongst themselves.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Yes, the other protestant groups inherited Sunday worship from the Catholics.

    Whether or not they're Adventists, the Fourth Commandment says what it says. And Jesus kept the Sabbath. So it can't be wrong...

    And when those other Protestant groups try to justify breaking the Fourth Commandment, they do sound a lot like Catholics.

    It is what it is. If you break a commandment because the Pope or the Catholic church or the "church fathers" say or said it's okay, then...

    One of the defining features of Protestantism is supposed to be sola scriptura.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura

    Show me where it says that ten commandments shouldn't be taken seriously (despite being written by God's own hand), or show me where it says that the Fourth Commandment was somehow revised (by some greater authority?), and I'll be happy to look at it. Every explanation I've seen seems to boil down to rationalizations about doing things the way they've always been done--going back to before the Reformation, to Constantine (and maybe before that to Roman Paganism, as well).

  • Notorious UGCC||

    You made a couple of claims.

    "When Constantine started bringing the pagans into the church, the day of worship was one of the things he started to change--because Saturday was a toughie for pagans." etc.

    I showed quotes from pre-Constantinian Church fathers attesting to the use of Sunday in the Church.

    In other words, you're mistaken in blaming Constantine.

    "Go look up the ten commandments in the Catholic version of the Bible. They've gotten rid of the part that specifies which day is the Sabbath because it was embarrassing."

    I showed the relevant parts of the (Catholic) New American Bible, Revised Edition indicating that they had *not* "gotten rid of the part that specifies which day is the Sabbath."

    In other words, you are mistaken in saying these parts were eliminated from "the Catholic version of the Bible."

  • Ken Shultz||

    "I showed quotes from pre-Constantinian Church fathers attesting to the use of Sunday in the Church."

    The push to merge Christianity with pagan beliefs began with Constantine. It was a political decision.

    And if you showed that the early church fathers were celebrating Sunday becasue Jesus died on that day, that doesn't necessarily mean they changed it. Maybe they were just celebrating Sunday, for that reason, and keeping the ten commandments, too.

    It could also mean that Roman Christians were already into worshiping on Sunday from their pagan days and didn't want to change. Just like Baptists today! They don't believe the Pope has the right to rewrite the ten commandments either--but they want to worship on the same day their parents did, they come up justifications for continuing to do what they always did.

    There certainly wasn't anything in there about how the ten commandments were rescinded and rewritten by Jesus. If some church father once took communion on a Wednesday, that doesn't necessarily mean anything from a theological standpoint either.

  • Notorious UGCC||

    Several of the quotes from the early Church fathers indicate the Church had *replaced* Saturday with Sunday.

    I don't think I'll be able to persuade you that these Church fathers are authoritative, I was showing that the blame (if there's blame to be meted out) doesn't belong to Constantine.

  • Notorious UGCC||

    "Bible says what it says"

    The Bible also says Christ rose from the dead on Sunday.

    But I doubt we'll settle this matter tonight. God bless.

  • IceTrey||

    Why can't people see that what is happening in Syria is obviously the beginning of Armageddon?

  • Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair||

    Great. They can all ascend to Heaven or descend to Hell. The rest of us will inherit the earth and lose all those tossers.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "Fundamentalist religions tend to cast their way as the only way. That's the nature of such churches. It is not a huge surprise that Seventh-day Adventists say nonbelievers will be screwed in the End Times. Yet true-believing Seventh-day Adventists take a dim view of other Christian religions and hold what is essentially a dark conspiracy theory: that the government will target them for imprisonment and, possibly, execution."

    Again, Adventists believe that people of all faiths will be heaven. And, FWIW, Ellen White wrote that people of all faiths would be in heaven and among the people on God's side at the end of time.

    Notice he threw in "Yet true-believing Seventh-day Adventists". That's called the No True Scotsman fallacy.

    Adventists generally do believe that one day the government and the church will unite against God's people everywhere (of all religions), and this is probably the main reason why Adventists are so fundamental in their insistence on separation of church and state.

    These are fundamentalists who are so wary of not violating the separation of church and state that they skew pro-choice.

  • Ken Shultz||

    E.g, Carson is opposed to voting for a Muslim President because he doesn't think Muslims believe in the separation of church and state.

  • brady949||

    I'll go out on a limb and say Ben Carson's batshit ideas won't be a problem for his batshit supporters.

  • Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair||

    I like this description of statists:

    Fundamentalist religions tend to cast their way as the only way.


    Libertarians, of course, also fit this profile, until you realize that libertarian fundamentalism is for everybody to do their own thing, while statists each and all assert that their own peculiar brand of DIY is also the only suitable way for everybody else to DIY.

  • sharmota4zeb||

    Speaking of Carson, religion and politics, here is the entire text from his website that states his position on faith in our society:


    Keep Faith in Our Society

    Our Founding Fathers were courageous men of principle and faith. We know this because the Declaration of Independence, our bedrock document, explicitly acknowledges the existence of our Creator.

    The United States of America was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. We can and should be proud of that fact. It served us well for almost 200 years.

    However, we need to reverse the recent trend of secular progressives using activist, federal judges to drive faith out of our society. Anyone who wishes to practice their faith, for example by praying privately, can and should be able to do so. Equally, the rights of someone to abstain from private prayer should also be jealously protected.

    The First Amendment enshrines our freedom to practice whatever faith we choose from any government intrusion. Our Founding Fathers never meant for the First Amendment to be used to drive prayer out of the public square.

    Source:
    https://www.bencarson.com/issues/faith

  • Ken Shultz||

    First Amendment protections for free exercise--like it was given the same weight as establishment protections?!

    Why that's just crazy!

    The First Amendment doesn't protect stupid speech. It only protects smart speech, and the First Amendment only protects smart religious beliefs, too. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

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