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Study Confirms That E-Cigarettes Generate Virtually No Toxins

Levels are about the same as those found in air.

FIN Ecig adFIN Ecig adAnti-smoking activists and public health officials who question the usefulness of electronic cigarettes in reducing tobacco-related disease often talk as if the content of the aerosol generated by these newfangled contraptions is utterly mysterious. While it may be plausible that the absence of combustion makes e-cigarettes safer than the conventional kind, they say, we can't know for sure without more information about exactly what vapers are sucking into their lungs. That stance is misleading and disingenuous, since we already have a pretty good idea.

2013 study reported in Tobacco Control, for example, looked at a dozen e-cigarette brands available in Poland and found that "the levels of potentially toxic compounds in e-cigarette vapour are 9–450-fold lower than those in the smoke from conventional cigarettes, and in many cases comparable with the trace amounts present in pharmaceutical preparations [of nicotine]." A new study of leading American and British brands, reported in Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology, confirms this point, finding that the levels of potentially problematic substances in e-cigarette aerosol are about the same as those detected in ambient air.

For their analysis the researchers picked three flavors of Blu eCigs, which account for about 50 percent of the U.S. market, and two flavors of SKYCIGS, which represent around 30 percent of the e-cigarettes sold in the U.K. They compared the output of these products with air samples and with the smoke generated by Marlboro Golds and two varieties of Lambert & Butler cigarettes. Here is what they found:

Analysis of the smoke from conventional cigarettes showed that the mainstream cigarette smoke delivered approximately 1500 times more harmful and potentially harmful constituents (HPHCs) tested when compared to e-cigarette aerosol or to puffing room air. The deliveries of HPHCs tested for these e-cigarette products were similar to the study air blanks rather than to deliveries from conventional cigarettes; no significant contribution of cigarette smoke HPHCs from any of the compound classes tested was found for the e-cigarettes. Thus, the results of this study support previous researchers' discussion of e-cigarette products' potential for reduced exposure compared to cigarette smoke.

The e-cigarette aerosols consisted mainly of glycerin or propylene glycol (70 percent to 85 percent), water (10 percent to 19 percent), flavoring (3 percent to 11 percent) and nicotine (1 percent to 2 percent). The researchers measured eight kinds of HPHCs: carbon monoxide, carbonyls, phenolics, volatiles, metals, tobacco-specific nitrosamines, polyaromatic amines, and polyaromatic hydrocarbons. The combined weight of all these in 99 puffs from a Blu Classic Tobacco Disposable (which proved to be typical) was less than 0.17 milligram. That's almost the same as the total amount of HPHCs (0.16 milligram) found in 99 puffs of air. By contrast, a single Marlboro Gold generated 30.6 milligrams of HPHCs—180 times as much as the Blu eCig. Per puff, the Marlboro Gold generated 3,357 nanograms of HPHCs—about 2,000 times as much as the Blu eCig.

You can find the specific breakdown by substance class and sample in Tables 4 and 5. But any way you cut it, the difference is enormous.

Does this mean e-cigarette vapor is about as safe as air? Not quite, since we don't know the long-term respiratory effects of inhaling the glycerin or propylene glycol that delivers nicotine into vapers' lungs. But whatever those effects are, it is safe to say they will not compare to the effects of smoking.

In light of data like these, anyone who implies that e-cigarette vapor is about as dangerous as tobacco smoke cannot be taken seriously. That includes Mark Leno, the California legislator who predicts that "we're going to see hundreds of thousands of family members and friends die from e-cigarette use, just like we did from traditional tobacco use." It also includes Ron Chapman, director of California's Department of Public Health, who recently declared e-cigarettes "a community heallth threat" in a report that includes panic-promoting pronouncements like these:

E-cigarettes do not emit water vapor, but a concoction of chemicals toxic to human cells in the form of an aerosol. The chemicals in the aerosol travel through the circulatory system to the brain and all organs.

Mainstream and secondhand e-cigarette aerosol has been found to contain at least ten chemicals that are on California's Proposition 65 list of chemicals known to cause cancer, birth defects, or other reproductive harm. 

You would never guess from such dire warnings that the toxic chemicals Chapman cites are present in e-cigarette aerosol at levels nearly indistinguishable from those in the air he is breathing right now. But since that appears to be the case, there is no justification for this sort of scaremongering.

[via Michael Siegel]

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  • Antilles||

    Truth and facts doesn't matter to these people. All forms of smoking is evil (except weed) and must be stopped. My home state of California is determined to tax and regulate e-cigs out of business, even though everyone with a brain knows they're far safer than traditional cigarettes.

  • ||

    It's because a fair number of them are animists. They've so internalized "cigarettes are teh evuls" and associate that totem (the cigarette shape and smoke) with supernatural, human-killing evil so much that they cannot disassociate the e-cig from their animism. It looks like the totem they hate and fear, and people exhale a cloud of something when they smoke either of them, so they just think e-cigs are evil too. Animists are pretty fucking stupid, remember, they're basically primitives.

    The rest of the anti-e-cig crowd is just repulsive puritan killjoys (and probably some tobacco industry lobbyists mixed in).

  • Antilles||

    Yet it seems so odd that so many leftists (including Obama) smoke. Perhaps it's because they're addicted and can't quit, so all they can do is try to keep others from starting. But leftists aren't known for their altruism, so what's they're real motive? If they wish to deprive those evil tobacco corporations of horrible profits then they should be embracing e-cigs. Is it all about controlling what people do and how they live their lives?

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Yes.

  • ||

    Yes. And projecting their own weaknesses on others, so that everyone "needs" to be controlled like they think they need to be. And they also just love an excuse to feel morally superior to others and to hate on them, but that's not limited specifically to any TEAM, it's more of an unfortunately common human emotion.

  • Antilles||

    Yes, but the rules they impose to control others rarely (if ever) apply to themselves. I suppose they believe that if a superior person such as themselves is susceptible to tobacco addiction then us little people are even more at risk. It just seems so arbitrary as to what they choose to focus on. And the opposition to e-cigs makes zero sense. If they really wanted to save lives and discourage tobacco use then embracing vaping is the way to go. But then again, they don't make nearly as much in taxes (yet!) from e-cig smokers. Perhaps that's their real motivation.

  • ||

    Well, there is the whole " the state gets $4 for every pack sold" which is an incentive many statists can embrace.

    Cig companies make like $.50 per pack.

    So who's the evil fuck in this fucking equation?

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Eric Garner, the tax evader?

  • Lanceman||

    The chances are great that, were cigarettes not prohibitively expensive in democratville, Eric Garner, 1, would not have been in the business of selling 'loosies' and 2, the state would have had no reason to arrest him that last fateful time or previous times.

  • ||

    "Is it all about controlling what people do and how they live their lives?"

    Yes.

    In this case it isn't just the left.

  • jay_dubya||

    "In this case it isn't just the left." Thank you for pointing this out.

  • rudehost||

    True. The socons are identical with a slightly different list of pet issues.

  • Paul.||

    It's because a fair number of them are animists.

    Why do you hate animists? Animists are cool. They sit around in temples worshipping stones, rivers and trees. How awesome is that?

    My spirit resides in my .45.

  • ||

    This .45, of course, amirite?

  • Paul.||

    Are you fucking kidding me? I don't carry that! That sits in a cherrywood box under the velvet painting of Mr. Twitty (to you).

    And I have custom grips with the first verse of Don't Cry Joni laser cut into the wood.

  • ||

    You're a good man, Paul. I try to tell your mom that all the time but she's usually...occupied.

  • From the Tundra||

    Gah! Dammit Epi. I had finally gotten that abortion out of my mind!

    Here is the correct .45.

  • ||

    Eight grand?!? And of course now I want one.

  • From the Tundra||

    Pretty, ain't she?

    Wilson makes some beautiful pistols. I don't have one... yet.

  • Paul.||

    Nice, but I think for value, you can do better. You can get a top, custom 1911 for $2000-$3000.

  • VapeVine||

    I am from Windsor, Ontario, Canada and the Ontario government is using the same toxicity scare tactics in order to tax and monopolize (synonym for "regulate") the burgeoning vaping industry (synonym for "tobacco tax leak"). Aristotle was wrong, reason is not distributed evenly among men; neither is money. And money can do wonders to influence perceptions when there is a vested interest in the obfuscation of facts. Hard to get unbiased scientific research done on Canadian and US soil when the results always seem to lean toward disproving what the big funding sources hoped to prove.

  • Hugh Akston||

    So I guess it's just a matter of time before all those municipalities rescind their e-cig bans.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    My place of business makes e-cig smokers go outside to the small 10'x10' plot of pavement with the other smokers behind the building. Fucking BS.

    Making smokers smoke in one small area is all about second hand smoke. So they are making e-cig smokers (which is being proven to be completely harmless) go breath in the perceived evil second hand smoke.

  • sarcasmic||

    I like having a cubicle where I can see and hear people coming. It allows me to discretely vape to my heart's content at my desk.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    I see we are similar in this regard.

  • Zeb||

    That's funny. I just got an e-cig (really should stop smoking cigarettes) and gave that a try today. My office is kind of weirdly isolated, so I have a pretty good spot for it.

  • sarcasmic||

    The disposable ones are a waste of money. If you haven't already, look into a battery with tips and juice. You can satisfy your nicotine addiction for less than a dollar a day that way.

    I order my stuff here (this is a link, not sure if they're showing yet or still black), though I'm thinking of checking out one of the shops that has opened up nearby.

  • sarcasmic||

    Guess they worked that bug out. Links show as links.

  • Warrren||

    Or did they isolate the weird?

  • Zeb||

    Both?

    Mostly we are just slightly understaffed. I may be weird, but I am also very useful.

  • Zeb||

    So much of this shit is about punishing smokers more than any real health concerns. Even worrying about second hand smoke outside is stupid. Asking smokers not to stand right by the door is reasonable, but making smokers stand in one inconvenient spot is just spite.

  • ||

    Lots of people love, love, love to have "pariahs" around to look down upon and feel superior to. The anti-smoking scum managed to make smokers pariahs, so are you surprised they get treated this way? Can you think of another habit that people have (other than really rare stuff like meth or heroin habits) that is essentially harmless to others but gets treated with this level of disgust, hate, and shunning?

  • Hugh Akston||

    Look Epi, you can bitch about it all you want, but the fact is that you leave a mess when you masturbate at work.

  • ||

    Sure, Hugh, but that's why I do it in the offices of people who are away on vacation or conferences. No one knows it's me! And man, do NOT go away for a long vacation because your office will basically be a biohazard swamp when you get back. Plus I'll Secret of My Success your ass too.

    DAY BOW BOW

  • utabintarbo||

    Well, that explains a lot...

  • Antilles||

    That type of thinking is so alien to me. Lots of people do things I don't like (such as smoking tobacco), but I would never consider myself superior to them or attempt to stop them from doing something they clearly enjoy. I don't like to smell smoke, but I also don't like smelling bad B.O. or seeing women wearing those dumb headscarfs--but I don't want to see those things outlawed. Do your thing and let me do mine...

  • JWatts||

    "but I would never consider myself superior to them or attempt to stop them from doing something they clearly enjoy."

    Well you'll clearly never be a Puritan or a Progressive.

  • Sudden||

    I'd wager it's far more about lost cigarette tax revenue than anything.

  • Contrarian P||

    As far as I'm concerned, if I own a place of business, I'm perfectly within my rights to make you go stand on your head on a park bench if you want to smoke an e-cigarette while you work for me. You can talk to your employer and ask for a separate area to use an e-cigarette, but if they're not sympathetic I can't see that you have much of a gripe.

  • Jordan||

    Yes, you are free to be an asshole. Doesn't mean we can't call you one.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    You're an asshole? Thanks for letting us know.

  • ||

    How many assholes we got on this ship?

  • MJGreen||

    We're surrounded by assholes!

  • Contrarian P||

    So let me get this straight. You're mad at your employer, who is paying you a salary to be at work and pays for the building you work in, because he wants you to go outside to vape when you're working on his property. And for this he's an asshole. And for telling you that you have no grounds to be mad, I'm an asshole. Ok.

    I've spent years working alongside smokers. Now I work alongside several people who vape. Pretty much without exception, they take very frequent breaks to go smoke/vape, while those of us who don't smoke get to stay in and keep on working, usually picking up their work in addition to our own. So no, you get no sympathy from me for your plight. If that makes me an asshole, so be it.

    Maybe your employer is an asshole, but he's the asshole that's paying you a salary. Whining because you can't indulge your habit in a matter that's convenient to you while you're getting paid to be productive is rather pathetic. If you don't like the policy, why don't you go talk to your employer rather than bitch about it here? If you don't like his answer, you're free to quit.

  • ||

    Pretty much without exception, they take very frequent breaks to go smoke/vape, while those of us who don't smoke get to stay in and keep on working, usually picking up their work in addition to our own. So no, you get no sympathy from me for your plight. If that makes me an asshole, so be it.

    Letting them vape at their desk solves that problem.

  • Contrarian P||

    Pretty much, but my point is that's the owner's call to make. If they feel it sets a bad example, is unprofessional, or might turn off potential clients...or even if they do it because fuzzy bunnies in their dreams told them to, it's still their company and they can set whatever policies they want.

  • Marcedward||

    There are a number of good reasons to let employees vape in the workplace it they are discrete (hint - no fog machines). A vaping in the workplace employee will be much more productive and happy than somebody who has to waste time going outside. Other reasons are too obvious to mention.

  • bassjoe||

    It will be just like how governments immediately stopped demanding additional snooping powers after it was discovered the Charlie Hebdo attackers used methods of communications that the State already ad the power to intercept and monitor (messages over child porn bulletin boards) to plan their attacks.

    Oh wait? That didn't happen? They still insisted on laws that would have done absolutely nothing to stop those attacks? Crap.

  • bsutansalt||

    Hold up. The authors of the study work for Lorillard Tobacco Company. Let's wait and see what an independent 3rd party lab comes up with.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    BAN THEM

  • Scarecrow Repair||

    Your math figures don't add up:

    The combined weight of all these in 99 puffs from a Blu Classic Tobacco Disposable (which proved to be typical) was less than 0.17 milligram. That's almost the same as the total amount of HPHCs (0.16 milligram) found in 99 puffs of air. By contrast, a single Marlboro Gold generated 30.6 milligrams of HPHCs—180 times as much as the Blu eCig. Per puff, the Marlboro Gold generated 3,357 nanograms of HPHCs—about 2,000 times as much as the Blu eCig.

    Also the switch to nanograms from milligrams is confusing. The 2,000 should either be 20,000 (if milligrams) or 20 (if nanograms).

    Unless I am just confused.

  • Zeb||

    Either that or it should be microgram instead of nanogram. (.17mg/99) * 2000 = 3.434 mg which is about 3357 ug.

    It was confusingly stated.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    Levels are about the same as those found in air.

    That's because of all the e-cigarettes polluting the air! Secondhand e-smoke!

  • Sevo||

    Won't matter.
    To proggies, it looks like someone is enjoying themselves in privacy.

  • Chumby||

    I think Mike would like to tax them.

  • bassjoe||

    Pshaw. Weak. What sort of "study" is this? They didn't examine the worst killer of them all: nitrogen!

    People breathe in nitrogen when using e-cigs. It's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that people die after breathing nitrogen their entire lives.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    100% of people who breath nitrogen on a regular basis will die. How have we not banned this stuff?

  • Zeb||

    I don't know. I haven't died yet. So I might not.

  • Cloudbuster||

    Do you really expect us to take your anectodal evidence seriously?

  • ||

    You joke, but try breathing pure Nitrogen for even just a short time and see what happens to you. That shit is bad news.

    I think we should funnel zillions of dollars to academics so that they can come up with some geoengineering that will rid the planet of the stuff.

    Also, we should tax somebody. No, everybody.

  • ||

    You joke, but try breathing pure Nitrogen for even just a short time and see what happens to you. That shit is bad news.

    Dry Martini Effect?

  • buybuydandavis||

    "there is no justification for this sort of scaremongering."

    Justification? You mean besides their lust for power?

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    People get put in cages for decades over a harmless plant. E-cig scaremongering just seems like business as usual.

  • Knarf Yenrab!||

    You would never guess from such dire warnings that the toxic chemicals Chapman cites are present in e-cigarette aerosol at levels nearly indistinguishable from those in the air he is breathing right now. But since that appears to be the case, there is no justification for this sort of scaremongering.

    It's Public Health, Sullum. There's always a justification.

    I'd be curious to know whether the insurance lobby is pushing back against the anti-vaping crowd. Insurers have a lot to lose if the public health thugs get their way.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I don't think anybody's ever been addicted to nicotine as badly as nanny-state progressives are addicted to telling other people what they can and can't do.

  • John Galt||

    That is fact.

  • Winston||

    So did Reason change their site up today? It looks... different.

    And is Obama going to raise taxes through executive order and go full Bismarck/Charles I/Louis XIV? What's stopping the US from becoming a dictatorship now?

  • Ken Shultz||

    Nothing's changed.

    You're on shrooms.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    This is the kind of issue that really exposes the public health nuts. Even if all you could say about e-cigs was that they were less toxic than cigarettes by X% then every person who switches from the latter to the former should be celebrated as a victory. But they act like it's just a new disaster.

  • Curtisls87||

    Unfortunately, here's the only part of the study the statists/animists will believe is true...

    Conflicts of interest
    The company for which the study authors work and the companies that manufacture the e-cigarettes tested for this study are owned by the same parent company.

  • jay_dubya||

    Weeeeellll, in all fairness that is a pretty significant conflict of interest. And tobacco companies dont have a great track record with this sort of thing. Maybe we should hold out for this experiment to be reproduced by a lab with funding not as directly conflicted before drawing conclusions.

  • ||

    Maybe we should hold out for this experiment to be reproduced by a lab with funding not as directly conflicted before drawing conclusions.

    Or, I could possibly make a reasonable decision on a personal/family level without a department of health, a dozen separate grants, and a legion of men in white coats!

    I mean, if I'm erring on the side of caution, I should turn off the humidifier. I have no idea what's in the water that's being fed into that thing.

  • jay_dubya||

    Dude, I smoke real non-electronic cigarettes. Do whatever you want - my comment wasn't in reference to whether people smoke or don't smoke. My comment was in reference to the topic of the article - which was a study about what chemicals are in e-cigarettes. I'm not sure what decisions could be made on a "personal/family level" that would impact what chemicals are in e-cigarette vapor(?). Also, I have no idea what studies if any have been conducted about humidifiers, I don't use them and they weren't addressed in the article.

  • Robert||

    Butt that's how it is for drugs & medical devices & most other safety-tested things. Who else is going to spend the $ to test them?

  • jay_dubya||

    Universities. Trade associations. Government regulatory agencies (I'm not a fan of them, but they exist & produce research). All I am saying is there is a conflict of interest. Leaving aside the "corporate" issue for a moment, non corporate-funded research that has not been reproduced has similar conflicts of interest as well.

    I have more faith in peer reviewed research than in research that has yet to be reproduced.

  • John Galt||

    Never known the social engineers to allow facts to interfere with their scare mongering or demonizing.

  • mfckr||

    E-cigs are reviled bc they potentially interfere with tax revenues derived from regular cigs. Has nothing to do with public health. And they'll continue to be reviled until a sufficient tax & fleece scheme can be concocted around them.

  • sarcasmic||

    E-cigs are used by people who are seeking artificial highs, and that is immoral.

    Natural highs, like the ones one gets when they throw a grenade into a crib before storming a home and terrifying innocent people, now that's moral because it's not artificial.

    But sucking on an electronic device that gives off chemicals? That's immoral.

  • mfckr||

    Natural highs, like the ones one gets when they throw a grenade into a crib before storming a home and terrifying innocent people, now that's moral because it's not artificial.

    Those acts are moral bc they're sanctioned by our noble wardens of the State (or some such shit).

  • sarcasmic||

    No. Because the highs are natural. Nothing chemical or artificial involved. Losers seek chemical highs because they're losers. Winners get their natural highs locking them up, or by calling the cops and watching the fun.

  • mfckr||

    No. Because the highs are natural. Nothing chemical or artificial involved. Losers seek chemical highs because they're losers. Winners get their natural highs locking them up, or by calling the cops and watching the fun.

    Well, by that logic, rape ought to be deemed an acceptable 'natural high' too. Surely the adrenaline rush experienced by both parties in a good ol' sexual ravaging is worthy of such consideration.

  • sarcasmic||

    Only if the woman being raped is a druggie or a prostitute, and if you're a cop.

  • mfckr||

    Only if the woman being raped is a druggie or a prostitute, and if you're a cop.

    See, we're back to the holy thugs of the State being held to divergent moral standards.

  • Antilles||

    If this is true then shouldn't the progs be encouraging tobacco consumption, rather than trying to reduce or eliminate it? I realize they like to control and tax people into oblivion, but their near-religious opposition to smoking tobacco defies logic.

  • mfckr||

    The public health scaremongering re: tobacco def. went into apoplectic hysteria, but I still think the core motive is and was always about revenue.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    Nah, they're happily raising the same taxes on e-cigs as they did on cigarettes. It's only a question of how long until they're at parity.

  • mfckr||

    Yes.

  • thom||

    They got the best of both worlds and they know it. Their policies have cut the smoking rate from 40% to 20% while they have at the same time increased cigarette taxes 400%, maybe 500%, AND they get to look like the good guys. Even better, they get to concentrate these taxes among a group of people who will die off shortly after they reach the end of their productive life. They've got a fifth of the population paying huge amounts of taxes for that can be used on their pet programs and then dying off when they would otherwise start drawing on the public purse. The progs are definitely not coming out behind in this deal.

  • Warrren||

    They will never stop. Ever.

  • Irish||

    The Onion is sometimes awesome.

    Hillary Clinton Hints At Presidential Ambitions By Concealing Information From American People

    Clinton is showing voters that she’s ready and willing to circumvent regulations in order to keep Americans in the dark on important issues and prevent anyone from uncovering potentially incriminating evidence. This is definitely her most unambiguous declaration of her intentions at a presidential run.”
  • ||

    Pure. Gold.

  • Contrarian P||

    Unfortunately it's probably going to be spun as a positive by her supporters in precisely this way. I can't wait to see the Salon articles about how Hillary bravely concealed the crucial goings on at State from the patriarchy.

  • ||

    I think we are going to see more of this kind of bullshit but in earnest.

    The less she says and the less she is seen, the more popular she is.

    It is stunning how fucking moronic lefty voters are. They are like bobble head dolls or trained seals. It doesn't matter how obvious a scumbag you are if you just learn to go through the right motions they will respond the way you want them to.

  • ||

    It's stunning, but they literally do not care about actions or results. Only words matter. So as long as you say the right words, you can do virtually anything you want and they will still love you. It's truly amazing and I find it extremely difficult to wrap my head around. I just don't understand how so many people can accept words without looking to see if the person speaking them actually does what they say.

  • Contrarian P||

    Unfortunately that tends to apply to the conservatives too. Rampant expansion of government? A-ok as long as it's our guy in charge!

  • ||

    True, but I've noticed a definite preponderance in those who lean left to completely excuse any action by someone on their TEAM who says the right words even if that person's actions are literally diametrically opposed to what the left is supposedly about. The right doesn't do that nearly as much. So yes, many right wingers will excuse growth of government from their TEAM talkers, but adultery? Not so much. Whereas the left seems to excuse anything from adultery to sexual assault (to use Clinton as an example) that they would pillory a right-winger for doing. They also excuse being rich, which they hate, if the person says the right words. They also excuse being a warmonger, a cronyist, anti-gay-marriage, and numerous other things (to use Obama as an example).

    It's definite that both TEAMs do it, it is in the nature of TEAMs to excuse their fellows to a certain degree. But the amount to which the left does not give one whit about actions is amazing. It absolutely dwarfs that tendency in the right. I'd like to figure out why.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    They also excuse being rich, which they hate, if the person says the right words.

    Yes, especially that one. Warren Buffett playing games to lower his taxes and taking charitable deductions is irrelevant as long as he supports higher taxes on the "rich." I think the reason the Left is worse than the Right is simply because they never perceive unintended consequences. Maybe it's just a corollary to the Conceit of Knowledge?

  • Contrarian P||

    I'd agree with that, but wanted to make it clear that I'm opposed to that kind of rampant bullshit from both parties, lest Tony, PB, or their ilk swoop in with their "BUT BOOOOSH!!!!" nonsense.

  • ||

    I will take a stab at it.

    I think people like us look at results because we are interested in what is going on in the world outside ourselves. Real world results matter because we are focused outwardly.

    They are not like that. They are focused inwardly. How something makes them feel counts. Their feelings matter. They are self absorbed and everything is about them.

    You can't get your head around it because you are a different kind of critter altogether.

    I know some of them and believe me when I say everything is about them. It is a borderline personality disorder really. The ones I know are barely functional. It isn't just the arena of politics where they make stunningly bad decisions.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    Obligatory.

    Are you a Keynesian?

  • ||

    They are definitely dressed appropriately.

  • Quincy 12||

    If Rand Paul is ever elected Prez, I want an "Is Paul an Austrian?" video.

  • ||

    I can buy that to a certain degree, it's just such an odd thing. I mean...even if you're inwardly focused, don't you want to make sure you're not getting played? That you're not voting for someone who just cynically says what you want to hear and then does the opposite? So, basically, to make sure you're not a moron, because people who get fooled by easily-verified charlatans are morons?

  • ||

    "I mean...even if you're inwardly focused, don't you want to make sure you're not getting played? That you're not voting for someone who just cynically says what you want to hear and then does the opposite?"

    We have been over this a thousand times. They want someone to make them feel like they are the right kind of people. It is about how they feel. It is a mild form of sociopathy. Everything is about them. What happens out in the real world only matters as it relates to their feelings about themselves. They are blind to what makes them feel bad about themselves and obsess about what makes them feel good.

    You are a dog wondering why fish don't think like dogs.

    They don't. They are fish.

  • ||

    I guess I am, because I cannot fathom the mentality of someone who doesn't care if they're getting used/played/tricked/made a fool of or not.

  • ||

    "It is about how they feel."

    This x 1000.

    My best friend dated a girl in college who was exactly what you describe. Nice girl, and by no means stupid. She used to like to talk politics with me. One night she broke down and admitted that logically,I was right about the welfare state, size of government, and cronyism etc. Then she said she would still vote team blue because it made her feel good.For the first time in my life, I was literally speechless.

  • Virginian||

    I mean, your vote as a vote is statistically meaningless, but it serves a valuable purpose in social signaling. I remember every laptop I saw on campus post 2008 being adorned with an "I Voted for Change" sticker.

  • ||

    Oh, I totally agree that a vote is vastly more valuable as social signaling than it is for achieving actual policy. It's just that you'd think the social signal of "hey, I voted for Hopey McChangey guy and then he proceeded to change nothing and inspire the opposite of hope" would make one actually start looking at the person's actions so that you don't have to admit that again.

    Though I suspect Suthenboy is right that it's much more about FEELZ than it is about a rational desire to make sure you're not taken for a sucker.

  • Virginian||

    Plus you can always blame obstructionism for things not going your way.

  • Robert||

    How can it be social signaling if it's a secret ballot?

  • ||

    I find social signaling pretty important actually. It lets me know who is what.

    I had a cousin who, when he was 19, couldn't quit telling everyone how he was a 'grown man'.

    My grandfather dressed him down pretty well. He got sick of hearing about it.

    "Son, if someone has to tell you that they are a grown man it means that they are not."

  • Sevo||

    "Son, if someone has to tell you that they are a grown man it means that they are not."

    "World Famous for our Steaks!"
    Well, no. If you were, I'd know about them without you claiming so.

  • ||

    There was a study published in Skeptic magazine ten or so years ago finding that there are several different kinds of human intellects that occur naturally. What I found sad was that only about 7% of people are naturally curious/skeptical. That percentage was constant across all cultures, languages, etc. They are just born that way.

    I wish I could find that study again. It was very interesting, but I have thrown away my boxes of Skeptic.

    Those are the people you are talking about, the ones who don't get played, the ones who ask questions. They want answers, and results matter to them. They want to know how things work and what it means. The other 93% of the human race don't give a shit about any of that. They are just wolves and different varieties of lemmings.

  • ||

    I should have said sheep, not lemmings.

    I grew up on a farm and when I wasn't working on our farm I would work on my friends farms. One of them was a sheep farm. My buddies daddy was a veterinarian but the guys real passion was raising sheep. One year I helped them herd the sheep for sale. We got them all in the barn (actually we watched while the coolest australian shepard dogs got them all in the barn) and then we had to load them in tractor trailers to ship out.

    The trailers were actually three story labyrinths with one door at the bottom. No matter what you do you cannot force the sheep to go in that door. If you try and force them in they will kick your ass. The sheep farmer told me to get on my hands and knees and crawl in that door. I did what he said. Then I crawled the length of the trailer and up all three stories. There was a hatch at the top just for the 'crawler' to escape through. As soon as I went through that door all the sheep followed me in just as nice as you please. The whole herd. All the way to the top, filling the trailer.

  • Slammer||

    Great story. I' ve heard about that, but with goats. And the one who leads them all in is called the Judas Goat.

  • Sevo||

    Blast your fast fingers!

  • Sevo||

    Something about a Judas sheep from a myth I remember....

  • LynchPin1477||

    It's somewhat amusing to see the ways in which people are tacitly acknowledging that Obama hasn't exactly lived up to expectations. They won't criticize him, but they'll criticize the Presidency while he's in the big chair.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    You know what else has virtually no toxins in it? Good old fresh air. (Except if you're in Jersey.)

  • ||

    I wish I could say the same thing about your mom.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    My mother never went to New Jerksey. You make no sense.

  • ||

    New Jerksey came to her. In the form of me. I mean in her, not to her. Sorry.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I SAID GOOD DAY, SIR.

  • ||

    I thought you said I make no sense!

  • Chumby||

    The white powder in the envelopes mailed to Congress?

  • heartburn||

    "You would never guess from such dire warnings that the toxic chemicals Chapman cites are present in e-cigarette aerosol at levels nearly indistinguishable from those in the air he is breathing right now."

    California should ban air, IMO.

  • ||

    California should choke itself.

  • Irish||

    Hilarious.

    David Brock goes on T.V. to do damage control, gets read a quote from himself that he made like 20 years ago when he was a right-wing hack rather than a left-wing hack, then argues against his own quote.

  • ||

    Like Gruber, he exudes slimy sleaziness.

  • ||

    Paul Krugman does that in print form several times a month.

  • ||

    Leftists come up with rules and laws to justify (nay cleanse) their own bad behaviors.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Projection is all they see.

  • JeremyR||

    Muslim sex gang in Oxford

    http://news.sky.com/story/1437.....s-of-girls


    Another told the authorities: "The Asian men felt they ran Oxford. That was exciting. People were afraid of them. I felt protected. People respected them."

    Yup, we need more open borders

  • kbolino||

    The UK, a country that has forbidden people from entering because they hold the wrong political opinions, has "open borders"?

  • ||

    See the discussion above about intentions vs results.

    They invite red-eyed, bloodthirsty, rapey, savages in in the name of tolerance. People with Ungood thoughts are kept out. They do this because they are good people.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    They invite red-eyed, bloodthirsty, rapey, savages in in the name of tolerance.

    It's more due to the fact that as a former colony and now member of the Commonwealth, it was easier for these Pakistani's fathers and grandfathers to move there, as technically, Commonwealth citizens cannot be "foreigners" within the Commonwealth itself. If I remember correctly, the law was actually changed to be more restrictive around the time of the Hong Kong transfer and Britain feared being swamped with exiles. Long story short, I doubt that any of those men were 1st generation immigrants.

  • Irish||

    Jihadi John is notably a natural born Brit and the Charlie Hebdo shooters were all born in France, I believe.

    I could be wrong about the Charlie Hebdo shooters though.

  • kbolino||

    According to Wikipedia, they were born in 10e arrondisement, Paris, so they were native born but their parents were from Algeria

  • ||

    I had forgotten about that. If your grandfather was a british citizen then you are as well.

    They committed cultural suicide. They should have just cut all of their colonies loose.

  • Sevo||

    "They should have just cut all of their colonies loose."

    England bled those colonies for at least 150 years. Without the colonies, England was France with expensive trade transport costs.

  • kbolino||

    They invite red-eyed, bloodthirsty, rapey, savages in in the name of tolerance. People with Ungood thoughts are kept out. They do this because they are good people.

    This isn't wrong per se, but in many cases the perpetrators are not first-generation immigrants. They are raised in insular cultures and the native population is unwilling, or unable, to enforce laws protecting life and property. Before these stories broke, I imagine there were several people who were threatened by the perps or their neighbors when they tried to find out what was going on and then brushed off or even threatened by the police.

    This is the sort of thing that "equal protection of the laws" is supposed to be about; it does not matter what your culture is, if there is suspicion of a crime, then you should be investigated, if there is evidence, you should be tried, and if the state proves its case, then you should be punished the same as anyone else.

  • kbolino||

    This being Britian, of course, I don't know that such a principle as "equal protection of the laws" even exists, but a case such as this ought to illustrate why it's essential.

  • ||

    Every principle that our constitution is built on is there for very good reason. This is why I get so enraged by people who argue against them.

    How can they be so ignorant of history, so blind to human nature. Essentially they are insisting on remaking huge mistakes that we should have already learned from.

  • Sevo||

    You think only "Asian" men (immigrants) molest children?

  • jay_dubya||

    Typical Big Tobacco Kochtapus spin. This study just shows how imperative it is that we ban air. For the children.

  • Warrren||

    But I like air!

  • Rich||

    potentially harmful constituents

    Well, let's see. According to the FDA, "Harmful and potentially harmful constituents (HPHCs) are chemicals or chemical compounds in a tobacco product or tobacco smoke that cause, or could cause, harm to smokers or non-smokers." Leaving aside the "chemical compounds" pseudo-legalese, one surmises potentially harmful constituents are chemicals that could cause harm.
    Alrighty, then.

  • Agile Cyborg||

    American friend, the Saudi's, slice heads off people over questioning ninny gods and this fucking country has a mechanized industry 'saving' smokers...

    America the land of where morons try to save people from whores and dandelions in the face of allies who kill over books and blogs.

    This shit has never been more fucked up.

  • Agile Cyborg||

    When did an e-cig chop a head off?

  • Agile Cyborg||

    Why is there no 'industry' in this country trying to teach the fucking irritant ISIS in battle lands to live somewhat fucking planetary normal yet these same anti-big-nicotine people spend billions of seized tax dollars trying to teach 'normal' UNkilling Americans that your e-cig is NOT normal...

    The world is a jaded sun stroke... The micro brained are running the efforts here while REAL world bullshit is relegated to strawberry shortcake by this puny collective minds.

    Cig-haters... go after fucking evil parasites that want to end your world for real... People who want to get high on safe nicotine are not your problem.

  • Irish||

    The world is a jaded sun stroke

    I've decided to start writing Lovecraftian horror stories where every title is a quote from Agile Cyborg.

  • Agile Cyborg||

    People who save smokers live a few short years longer...

    They should get a certificate for this.

  • Agile Cyborg||

    ...and the funeral director should staple this on their coffin.

  • Agile Cyborg||

    The DEA fucking morons who all of them who spend 20-40 years saving mankind from drugs...

    and these dummies die in a car crash, or from cancer, or from old-age at 64, or their boat tipped in a Florida pond, or.....

  • ||

    Here is a good one for Epi.

    First two minutes is it in a nutshell. Her feelings destroyed her health.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZSz4AmaMcs

  • Aloysious||

    You know, you guys are seriously destroying my sense of calm tonight.

    Keep it up.

  • ||

    Oh I know all about vegans and vegetarians and health and feelings, dude. I worked for serious vegans in their health food store as a teen. My sister went vegetarian when she was 12 and then finally gave it up about 10-15 years later when she couldn't seem to get as slim as she wanted to be while eating that way. Now, none of their health was "destroyed" like this woman claims hers was, but all the vegetarians I know who stopped uniformly said that they felt significantly better after eating an omnivorous diet again. But that's what happens when you base your food consumption on ideology or feelings or worry about prey animals or whatnot.

    "Britta, we're done. I ate a hamburger the other day and suddenly I'm not cold all the time."

  • ||

    I remember you telling about that before.

    I only knew one from college. She was pasty, clammy and smelled weird as hell. For those reasons I did not get to know her well.

  • Agile Cyborg||

    Heaven doesn't exist for those who relish life.... Heaven only exists for those who fear life....

  • Irish||

    Heaven only exists for those who fear life

    Yet another brilliant story title for my upcoming book of eldritch horror which shall be entitled Do you knot love the millennial virgin?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I don't know, that sounds like some jihadi "Americans love Pepsi cola, we love death" kind of shit. I wouldn't want you on some list somewhere.

  • Agile Cyborg||

    Heroi Mushamatto enters le' circle of light and around him stands several flat unimposing creaturolas...

    INstantly the Heroi Mushamatto understand s that his space craft into the mental void of cosmic vipers on strata delto 2.2 has been recover'd by miniature lights... tiny lights... like mini clouds and tiny electrcical storms.... Mushamato stood strong and tons of tiny clouds and tiny lightnings strucks hither and yon like an unleashed ac/dc voltage party and Harold the Mulatoma danced into the seas of a heaving vast corpuscle Newtonian virgin lab...

  • Agile Cyborg||

    The fists are coming across the great plains... iron, red, old, ancient.... I fear channeling and I don't fucking even believe in channeling... I so do believe in mym=ind receiving an astral chain... and I do love my brothers on reason... I've always loved my reason brothers and the 2 sisters... however...

    Is history a druid fluid.... a meandering cross section of where and how? and then a bridge over dark pits and so... I once got supre high with an old lady who had great bud and I wanted to fuc k her.... and i kind of feel bad about this but not really because she was supra interesting and she was skinny and has really interestin g tits...

  • Agile Cyborg||

    =The universe might have gates. But who locks o r unlocks them?.

  • Quincy 12||

    Catlike, some slip beneath the gates.

  • Agile Cyborg||

    Should we like our galaxie? WHY should we think Milkyway is cool?

    Milkyway is NOT a fucking pol and is NOT fucking telling us to NOT fucking get ripped....

    Therefore..I does suggest our fucking galaxy partayy's with various cosmic anamoloi...

  • Quincy 12||

    Our galaxy is ours. We gentrify what is near. Andromeda is tempting, exotic, exciting but the commute is awful.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    Give it 4BB years.

  • Agile Cyborg||

    Space is like ramen noodles...

    Space and time twists... the farther it gets from each body... time and space is not human it is based on atomic levers..

  • Agile Cyborg||

    reason bros always foil the giants.... great fucking warriors.. but I see a ribbon from the outer stripes far beyound this world and I'm thinkin about ho[ppin on it.... Shit is like fuckin lightin and it pierces the moon like a sweet glow and my carriage is muscular and I plan on shooting right the godam fuckin to the nearest comet

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    You fantasize about Kirk bringing you toast in the morning before your horse ride, don't you?

  • Agile Cyborg||

    I dont have much time I.m onit and I.m into the next beyond

  • Quincy 12||

    Fare thee well, Patriarch of the Oort.

  • Chumby||

    The Vapist

  • Walter Peck||

    Vape Culture

  • seguin||

    Campus Vape.

  • griffinjess||

    my co-worker's mom makes $66 hourly on the computer . She has been without a job for nine months but last month her income was $15318 just working on the computer for a few hours. this page.for work detail go tech tab.... http://www.Job-bandana.com

  • userve32||

    This my friend is why we roll with the punches.

    www.AnonStuff.tk

  • AzD||

    Think of the children.

  • GilRossMDACSH||

    Excellent piece as always Jacob. Interested readers can also see my contemporary piece in California Political Review: http://www.capoliticalreview.c.....l-smokers/
    .....And, I'm pretty sure Dr. Chapman has resigned from his post at CDPH, a real plus for public health--although his stated reasons for fleeing had nothing to do with his lethally misguided attack on e-cigarettes. Gil

  • FuriousFatMan||

    well, good thing the FDA already approved glycerin or propylene glycol as safe for human consumption so now we can end all this since the stated goals of the FDA are to ensure safe food quality and they do not have any other kind of agenda they are pursuing.....

    :D

    -FFM

  • maryjaneromeo||

    My Uncle Ryder just got black Jeep Liberty SUV from only workin parttime on a pc... go to this web-site ...... ✹✹✹✹✹✹ www.jobsfish.com

  • HarveyJay||

    We recently sent an e-newsletter discussing the difference and dangers of e-cigs, vape pens & hookahs (based on reporting by the Cincinnati Drug & Poison Information Center article) -- if anyone is interested in getting a copy email me at nipc@prismnet.com

  • Lisa Lashed||

    More great news for the vaping community, if you are based in the UK and trying to find an eCig or vape shop then visit http://ecigdirectory.co.uk

  • bsutansalt||

    FYI, the authors of the study work for Lorillard Tobacco Company.

  • bluedodger||

    The CDPH report was wild. In one paragraph they scare you about nicotine in ecigs in the next, they say... try an approved nicotine replacement therapy! You can't make up stuff like this.

    http://www.electroniccigarette.....igarettes/

  • EugeneDean||

    This is the news I have been waiting for. My wife has been trying to get me to quit smoking for years. There is no way that I will be able to go cold turkey. If e-cigarettes are as harmless as puffing air, I don't think she will be opposed to a conversion.

    http://www.aussie-e-cigarettes.....arter-kit/

  • bsutansalt||

    FYI, the authors of the study work for Lorillard Tobacco Company.

  • bsutansalt||

    FYI, the authors of the study work for Lorillard Tobacco Company. Hellooooo conflict of interest.

    Call me when an independent lab/3rd party comes out with results on the subject.

  • Adelabasch||

    I try to change my mind but when I see this http://www.cig007.com/cigarett.....igarettes/ I can't it.

  • amzav||

    Vaping e cigarettes have really helped me to quit smoking regular cigarettes. Earlier when I used to smoke cigarettes I felt irritated and wake up between every night to smoke cigarette. But now it really feels good as I have avoided and trying my best to quit smoking.

  • SteveAlive||

    It has no toxins unlike tobacco cigarette. That is why I prefer to use ecigs because I know it is not harmful.

  • jamesbrown||

    I really impressed after read this of some quality work and informative thoughts . I just wanna say thanks for the writer and wish you all the best for coming!.
    vapor cigarettes nz

  • Ray William||

    E-cig virtually are not at all harmful. Also they are best replacement to quit smoking. This is the best way to quit smokers bad habit. Really people should try this.
    Some great collection of E-cig which are guaranteed -- http://ecigvapehut.co.uk/

  • SonnyV||

    All one really has to do is ask anybody who quit smoking using Vape. They will all tell you just how much better they feel!

  • DanielGTV||

    Even though vaping has been deemed 95% less harmful than smoking by everybody except the Queen in England, here we are getting ready to watch everyone go back to smoking unless they enjoy using what ever Big Tobacco decides to leave on the market. You would think that the Government would like to see a healthier population with longer lifespans -- oh sorry, I forgot they can get more taxes in less time from cigarettes.

  • megaflores||

    For the past few years I have had difficulty working out in yard, then in 2015 it got harder and harder to breathe. After many tests, it was a CT scan that showed COPD, emphysema and scarring in my lungs. I quit smoking 8 years ago but the damage has been done. I got to a point I couldn't catch my breath and was coughing so hard I thought the top of my head would blow off, nothing was really working to help my condition. Finally i started on COPD herbal formula i purchased from NewLife Herbal Clinic, i read alot of positive reviews from other patients who used the COPD herbal treatment. I used the herbal remedy for 7 weeks, its effects on COPD is amazing, all my symptoms gradually faded away, i breath very more freely now! (Visit www. newlifeherbalclinic. com ) I recommend this COPD herbal formula for all COPD/Emphysema sufferers

    Megan Flores
    New Jersey, USA.

  • Bonnie Blum||

    I was told I had emphysema in 1987 when I was 45 years old. I smoked for 30 years, but quit smoking as soon as I was told that I had COPD. Quitting smoking was the hardest thing I ever did. But I knew I would die if I didn't. My health was getting so bad that I needed oxygen 24/7 and was down to 92lbs. Thankfully, in 1999 I got lung volume reduction surgery. It saved my life. I no longer needed oxygen and was able to climb stairs, dance, and travel the world. That good fortune lasted for almost 13 years. I am now back on oxygen 24/7 and can't climb stairs, dance or travel the world. i searched for alternative treatment Online i was introduced to Health herbal clinic by a friend here in the United states she told me they have successful herbal treatment to Emphysema and other lungs diseases. I spoke to few people who used the treatment here in USA and they all gave a positive response, so i immediately purchased the COPD herbal formula and commenced usage, its totally unexplainable how all the symptoms totally dissapeared, my cough was gone and i no longer experience shortness of breath(dyspnea), contact this herbal clinic via their email Info@ healthherbalclinic. net Or website www. healthherbalclinic. net Herbs are truely gift from God

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