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When 'Preventing Rape Promotes Rape,' You're Doing Feminism Wrong

Teaching men not to rape and helping women avoid rape aren't mutually exclusive options.

classic_film/Flickrclassic_film/FlickrA team of undergraduate students at North Carolina State University has developed a novel solution to helping women avoid "date rape" drugs like Rohypnol (aka "roofies") and Gamma-Hydroxybutric acid (GHB): nail polish that changes colors when it comes into contact with these substances. "Our goal is to invent technologies that empower women to protect themselves from this heinous and quietly pervasive crime," the creators of "Undercover Colors" polish wrote in their winning submission to the school's Entrepreneurship Initiative competition—hardly the words of people promoting sexual assault, would you say? 

Yet bunches of high-profile, liberal feminists* saw things otherwise. Maya Dusenbury at the blog Feministing starts with a good point—that drugs like Rohypnol, Xanax, and GHB are not used to facilitate rape as commonly as we might imagine, and it's important not to give people false impressions of when and how assaults take place. But to Dusenbury, that makes preventative efforts aimed at less-common circumstances somehow suspect: 

Are you at all worried that by overstating the prevalence of date rape drugs, your product might give its users, who are no less likely to become victims of other kinds of sexual assault, a false sense of security? And given that your product only addresses a relatively tiny subsection of the sexual violence in this country, do you have any plans to donate your profits to help protect the remainder of the 18 percent? 

Yes, her complaint actually seems to be that the nail polish creators are only helping prevent some rapes and not all rapes. Meanwhile, Salon assistant editor Jenny Kutner is skeptical of the polish and yet still distraught that it will be sold and not magically subsidized and distributed freely:

... there’s room for skepticism about a rape prevention method that aims to deter assaults through more fear and stigma — albeit stigma attached to committing sexual assault, not to surviving it — instead of through education. And, beyond that, tools like Undercover Colors raise questions about the cost of profiting from rape prevention: Is this really a market we should continue to applaud entrepreneurs’ (notably male ones) tapping into? Or might these resources be better allocated trying to teach people not to rape?

At The Guardian Jessica Valenti asserts that "anything that puts the onus on women to 'discreetly' keep from being raped misses the point. We should be trying to stop rape, not just individually avoid it." Here's Jezebel writer Lindy West:

Here's Elizabeth Plank, a senior editor at millennial news site Mic

And Rebecca Nagle, co-director of the group FORCE: Upsetting Rape Culture, told Think Progress:

One of the ways that rape is used as a tool to control people is by limiting their behavior. As a woman, I’m told not to go out alone at night, to watch my drink, to do all of these things. That way, rape isn’t just controlling me while I’m actually being assaulted—it controls me 24/7 because it limits my behavior. Solutions like these actually just recreate that. I don’t want to fucking test my drink when I’m at the bar. That’s not the world I want to live in.

At the crux of most of these complaints is the axiom that we should teach men not to rape instead of teaching women not to be raped. And that's an important message! Too much cultural focus for too long has been on how a women's own conduct contributed or may contribute to her assault, in a way that winds up absolving assailants of culpability.

But teaching men not to rape and helping women avoid rape aren't mutually exclusive options. It's been said so many times already so as to be a cliche, but no one accuses security cameras of encouraging "theft culture". And neither do most people blame theft victims for getting robbed just because they didn't have security cameras. This sort of surveillance is simply an extra precaution that some homeowners and businesses take, particularly if circumstances (living in a wealthy neighborhood that's often targeted, living in a high-crime neighborhood, etc.) suggest a higher likelihood of their property being robbed.

Similarly, I find it hard to believe the mere existence of discreet date-rape detection tools would lead to the belief that anyone not employing them deserves being drugged. No one's gonna start expecting all women to start slathering this stuff on all the time. But someone who frequents crowded clubs, or a college student going to a keg party, or someone on a first date may find that taking this added precaution seems worthwhile. Are we supposed to prefer they get drugged and assaulted while we're waiting for a perfect, rape-free culture? As writer and activist Maggie McNeill commented on Twitter, I'm skeptical about "solutions" to crimes & social problems "that require establishing a Utopia first."

* Really want to stress that these criticisms are coming from mainstream liberal feminists because I've seen plenty of other feminist-minded women, from libertarians and conservatives to rad-fems and writers at popular women's publications, mentioning the nail polish approvingly. 

Photo Credit: Maria Morri/Flickr

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  • AustinRoth||

    Their real concern is anything that actually does directly help prevent rape lessens their control of the narrative.

    They are only interested in 'solutions' that involve political power.

  • Brendan||

    Indeed. That's also my guess as to why they can't discuss subtypes of rape and instead lump all of them together along with expanding the definition to ridiculousness.

    A guy threatening (or mildly suggesting) that he's going to stop seeing a girl if she doesn't consent to sex is rape and that rape should be treated as seriously as one where a person puts a gun to someone's head and rapes them so violently they end up in the ER.

  • anon||

    You looked at that hotty crossing the street in a tantalizing skirt!? RAPIST!

  • SForza||

    Have feminists already made this claim? Negotiating about sex (no sex = no more dates) and receiving her consent is now rape? Because there are, like, trade-offs and stuff?

  • WTF||

    Actually, if you are dating a woman, and have sex, and break up with her later on, and she feels bad about having had sex with you, guess what? RAPE!

  • Azathoth!!||

    It is so fucked up that this is not a joke.

  • Brendan||

    There is a position floating around that any coercion for sex is tantamount to rape.
    In short, if she feels "pressured" into it, it's rape.

  • Otisjay||

    Even if the "coercion" is that i make her horny?

  • Cyto||

    Brendan is correct - their position is that "emotional coercion" subverts "enthusiastic consent", so if you say "if you loved me, you'd.." you are a rapist. If you say "Ok, I understand that you don't want to have a sexual relationship. I'll just go find someone else... thanks!" and then she relents and you have sex... RAPE!

    There is a pretty strong correlation between people who use the words "rape culture" without irony and people who are idiots. The same could be said for "enthusiastic consent" and people who are evil. Their world vision includes locking up men who have sex with women who told them that they wanted to have sex, proceeded to have sex in a voluntary and enjoyable way, but didn't really, really want to deep down. They place the onus on men to be psychic and understand everything going on in a woman's head - under penalty of life in prison.

    Surprisingly, this is not hyperbole. It is a simple restatement of their position with the subjective judgement of "evil" tossed in their and the pejorative use of the term "psychic" to underscore just how ludicrous their position is.

  • ||

    I have trouble with this one.

    Why would anyone want to have sex with someone who doesn't really want to? The instant I figure out she is only going through the motions for my sake.... I quit.

    I roll over and light a cigarette and ask her what is on her mind.

    You are correct though. It is not rape.

  • Cyto||

    Too late though. You already raped her. That is why this whole enthusiastic consent thing is so evil.

    It isn't that you should want your partner to want to have sex with you. This is where their argument always starts. Of course everyone (well, most everyone) agrees with that. I think one of the Blue Collar Comedy Tour guys covered that idea with "But I'm a picky guy.... I won't have sex with a woman unless she says, 'yes, I will have sex with you!'"

    When you listen further though it becomes apparent that this kind of relationship truism isn't what they have in mind. This is just their hook to make their argument sound reasonable. It quickly devolves into a world where criminal intent on the part of the "rapist" is not a component of the crime. Nor is any knowledge on his part that he was doing anything wrong. If she feels like what occurred was entered into with less than "enthusiasm" on her part, then it is rape. Not even a special category of inappropriate conduct, but full-on life-in-prison rape.

  • Cyto||

    Say she was worried that her boyfriend was going to leave her because she heard that some other hot girl who puts out was interested in her man. So she approaches him and says "tonight is the night!" and they get a room and have sex. By the dictates of this "enthusiastic consent" crowd, he is a rapist. I have debated this exact scenario on a couple of their websites and they always double down with "it is your responsibility to get enthusiastic consent for every sex act."

    They are sick and evil people and should be opposed at every level. And this coming from someone who waited until marriage - talk about getting full documentation of consent!

  • ||

    Their real concern is anything that actually does directly help prevent rape lessens their control of the narrative.

    They are only interested in 'solutions' that involve political power.

    Nobody penetrates a narrative and uses it as a display of dominance like a feminist.

  • mtrueman||

    "They are only interested in 'solutions' that involve political power."

    'They' are called feminists. And, yes, feminism is a political movement. You seem to disapprove.

  • HolgerDanske||

    Austin, you're right. Meanwhile, the cognitive disconnect is staggering.

    Case in point, when I read the above quote from thinkprog, it made me think how easy it would be to replace the word "rape" and edit out a little bit of the context in it, to make it fit what those types of people are constantly pushing on others.

    Too bad we can't come up with a nail polish that detects when your freedom is being raped.

  • RBS||

    So, Never Go Full Feminist?

  • Hugh Akston||

    Look all they want is a world where nobody is a potential threat to anybody and their personal safety is not their responsibility. That's really not so much to ask, is it?

  • ||

    Kumbaya, my ladies, kumbaya...

  • ||

    Look all they want is a world where nobody is a potential threat to anybody and their personal safety is not their responsibility.

    Remember Ferguson.

  • GILMORE||

    Wouldn't it just be easier to learn Kung Fu like the rest of us? I mean, geez.

  • BiMonSciFiCon||

    Look, why should we, citizens of China, have to build some wall to keep out the Mongol horde? Teach Genghis Khan not to pillage, is what I say.

  • anon||

    Thanks for ruining my day. I cannot comprehend the absurdity of any argument against such an awesome nail polish.

  • Libertarius||

    Then you need to read up on postmodernism, the bullshit anti-philosophy with which all these nutty, neurotic leftists have been indoctrinated.

  • anon||

    teach men not to rape instead of teaching women not to be raped

    Let me know how that works out for you. My daughter will be taught how not to be raped though.

  • Brendan||

    Exactly. If someone questions you, just tell them you're not going to wait around for rapists to solve the problem of rape.

    /Bank vaults just enable robbery culture, teach robbers not to rob.

  • JeffreyinSandySprings||

    good analogy - perhaps better than mine

  • WTF||

    Teach robbers not to rob rather than teaching people how not to be robbed.
    Yeah, that makes sense.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    That burglar system I had installed only proves that I have submitted to the thieviarchy.

  • Zeb||

    I'm pretty sure that men already know how not to rape. Some just choose not to apply that knowledge in every situation.

  • anon||

    I'm pretty sure that men already know how not to rape.

    I submit Steve Smith and Warty as evidence to the contrary.

  • Zeb||

    I said "men". As in adult male Homo sapiens. Steve Smith is some sort of partially shaved ape and I don't even know what Warty is supposed to be.

  • anon||

    Well then I would say not raping is actually a pre-requisite to being a Man, and that an actual rapist does not qualify.

  • Sudden||

    Warty does not rape. The DOOMCOCK OF DOOM simply magnetically pulls women onto his well-endowed sex organ without either he or the women exercizing any free will.

    That's what my ex-wife told me at least.

  • Marshall Gill||

    My daughter will be taught how not to be raped though.

    Indeed. Much of that lesson will involve the use of (gasp!) guns.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    This kind of idiocy (the referenced author's, not yours) is just sad. The existence of evil people (e.g. rapists) does not mean that all non-evil people within the same category need to "learn" anything. If you accept this nonsense, then because of Lorena Bobbit, we can all say "Teach women not to be dick slicing psychopaths instead of teaching men to not get their dick sliced off by a psychopath."

  • anon||

    Teach women not to be dick slicing psychopaths instead of teaching men to not get their dick sliced off by a psychopath."

    I'm actually ok with this though.

  • Sudden||

    It does serve to expose their lies for what they are: lies.

    Most of what is classified as "rape" today, especially on college campuses, is not some concerted effort to deflower some innocent girl using drugs that knock her out cold.

    Instead, a woman gets drunk, makes a bad decision about who she will allow to penetrate her, has regrets afterwards and doesn't want her friends to think her a sloot, and therefore says she was raped because she was drunk (eventhough she was far from blacked out, merely half a bottle of wine buzzed and fully aware of what she was doing at the time).

  • Whahappan?||

    And the men are at least as drunk in most cases. Anyone ever hear of beer goggles?

  • Bill Dalasio||

    So, why don't we consider the woman a rapist?

  • Carnival||

    [citation needed]

    Please tell me how you know what percentage of sexual assaults happen which way.

  • JakeTSnake||

    Do you?

    http://www.slate.com/articles/.....ulted.html

    Consider also that rape by forced envelopment has only recently been added to the definition of rape, finally making it possible for women to rape men under the law. Prior to that, it was impossible, and only men could commit rape.

  • JakeTSnake||

    Another article on the same subject:

    http://www.inquisitr.com/12313.....ink-study/

  • DFG||

    How does one teach someone not to rape? Is it part of the "Just Say No To Murder" lessons? My parents never gave me instruction in either not raping or not murdering and yet I never did either. Looks like someone dodged a bullet there. So to speak.

  • Brian D||

    What we need is a chemical that stops men from raping women. You know, like arsenic.

    Love,
    Lindy West

  • Marshall Gill||

    Why would Lindy West need anything other than her personal appearance to resist rape?

  • Zeb||

    One thing that a lot of feminists do get right is that rape often has nothing to do with sexual attraction.

  • ||

    Anything Lindy West does involving sex has nothing to do with sexual attraction.

  • SForza||

    Therefore, Lindy West is a rapist. QED.

  • Sudden||

    Violent rape, yes that is true. It's a power thing.

    The crap that feminists want to be considered in the category of rape, i.e. post-coital regret combined with a glass of wine for plausible deniability of consent, that is always a matter of sexual attraction on behalf of the male.

  • Zeb||

    Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of. And I think that a lot of the "get a girl incoherently drunk at a party and fuck her" kind of rape is probably often a power thing too.

  • Illocust||

    Has this ever been proven? I keep hearing it asserted, but no one has ever been able to provide me a study to prove it. It really has the ring of "if we say it enough times it will be true".

  • Sudden||

    It's generally true of violent rape in this country. Any interviews with serial rapists, the kind that violently and forcibly rape a woman, will reveal as much (though I'm unaware of any studies on the matter, it's anecdotal but passes the eye test upon seeing said interviews).

    But the stuff that the feminists want considered within the rubric of rape, namely sexual acts aided by a minor amount of intoxication but with full awareness on the part of the female that are later regretted, those are entirely about the man's sexual attraction.

  • Illocust||

    If it was all about power and not sexual attraction, wouldn't we expect he majority of violent rape victims to be old and crippled people? It doesn't seem to fit with the narrative that the group we consider most attractive in society is also the group most likely to be raped if the goal is really power.

  • Sudden||

    Violent rapists will often take advantage of the old and crippled. Pedophilia is also an extension of this.

    However, the power trip is greater when you successfully rape a woman in the fruit of her years as there is inherently a greater struggle involved.

  • ||

    To amplify this, it should be noted that many serial rapists begin with prostitutes, drug addicts, or the elderly and "graduate" to more difficult targets.

  • Illocust||

    Wait, if its about a greater struggle, then wouldn't the ultimate target be men?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • Illocust||

    On that though, I would still like to see some actual research on this, because starting with the weak and defenseless could just as easily be interpreted as starting with easier less sexually desirable targets until your confident enough to go after the people you are really attracted too.

  • Carnival||

    Where did you get your (apparent) doctorate in psychology from?

  • DFG||

    Come on. The rapist targets the women he can't have for one reason or another, or wants to "teach a lesson" or who remind him of someone who hurt him. It's ultimately all about power though. You force someone to do something she would never do willingly.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    And robbery often has nothing to do with a desire for money?

  • Zeb||

    I don't see any reason to assume that the two would be parallel necessarily.

  • ||

    That's silly and you know it. Rape is violent, and other violent acts like beatings and murders are often committed for revenge, as punishment, or purely for pleasure.

  • ||

    I think it's important to note some grey areas, where violent rape has nothing to do with sexual attraction in the conventional sense but still has to do with sex.

    Many rapists seek the power that rape gives them because they hate women; some of them hate women because they have been denied sex repeatedly or by certain women they had a particularly strong desire for. Of course, as should go without saying, most men who are denied consensual sex do not become rapists (or even nonviolent misogynists).

    And not all rapists lack the ability to have sex, even with attractive women (for extreme but famous examples, see Ted Bundy and Rodney Alcala [the "Dating Game Killer"]).

    Second, some rapists do so not because they want sex and they are evil enough to just "take it", but rather because they want sex and have trouble getting off during consensual sex. In other words, it is sexual, but in the sense that they are sexually aroused by rape (whereas most people are sexually aroused by... sex).

  • Jeff R.||

    Thanks, Marshall. It needed to be said at some point.

  • ||

    Really want to stress that these criticisms are coming from mainstream liberal feminists because I've seen plenty of other feminist-minded women, from libertarians and conservatives to rad-fems and writers at popular women's publications, mentioning the nail polish approvingly.

    Yeah, I have to say that not only is this fucked up, but I'm actually surprised by it. My most rad-fem real-life friend is seriously fucking loving this nail polish. But then she's also an anarchist and not a fucking idiot asshole.

  • ||

    "real-life", "friend"?

    Either of these on their own are completely over the top boasts for an HyR poster, but combined? At long last, have you no shame?

  • Swiss Servator, Bern baby Bern||

    Shame?! She is the worst, remember?

  • ||

    Sorry, I forgot. The pills that Warty gave me seem to be playing havoc with my memory.

    He says that they will help protect me from any infections from basement mold, but to be honest all they seem to do for me is knock me out and make my ass hurt.

  • Warren's Strapon||

    But then she's also an anarchist and not a fucking idiot asshole.

    Thank you for brightening my day with that.

  • Xeones||

    "Of course i would prefer to be in anarchy, but that would require us all to act like adults, wouldn't it?"

  • ||

    And she's trans, too, and ridiculously fucking awesome. Some people really do live this shit. She is one of them. And yes she is also a rape victim.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    And she's trans, too, and ridiculously fucking awesome.

    Unpossible. Gavin told me that they are all mental and emotional cripples.

  • ||

    Turns out adversity does make some people incredibly badass.

  • Slocum||

    At the crux of most of these complaints is the axiom that we should teach men not to rape instead of teaching women not to be raped. And that's an important message!

    No! It isn't an important message! It's offensive, sexist BS! Try changing 'teaching men not to rape' to 'teaching African Americans not to steal' and see if you still endorse the 'axiom' as an important message rather than straight out racism!

  • AuH20||

    It's also a weird one when you consider how much modern feminism is all about the idea of gender being a social construct.

    There has been major pressure on pro-legal abortion groups to change their names from, say, Fund Texas Women to Fund Texas Choice under the idea that non-women get abortions (basically, people who have female genitalia but don't identify as women).

    For example, under their logic: Trans men are men, and always have been, even if they were raised as females. Should we be teaching them not to rape? The answer generally seems to be "no", but is completely illogical.

  • Freddy B||

    I don't care what people call themselves, how they sex identify, or with whom they want to partner sexually or otherwise. However, I am disgusted with the pressure (especially when it involves state coercion) to be almost psychically in tune with another person's self identification. It's not up to me to understand them or care about them, nor any other person on this planet. If they want me to understand, care, and relate, then they need to make the effort, not me.

    I can specifically recall an NPR piece on gay relationships and how other people are supposed to talk about the couples and relate to the couples. For instance, just because a couple is OUT, you are never to mention their being OUT, it's bad etiquette. You are supposed to check with them, tell them who you are talking to, and then relate the OUT. FU, I'll relate and talk however I want to whomever I want, whenever I want.

    Their is something controlling that drives parts of the sex identification movement, like they are all a bunch of British Mom's.

  • mtrueman||

    " It's not up to me to understand them or care about them"

    I'm afraid it is up to you. There's certainly nothing I can do to understand them for you.

  • Libertarius||

    No, asswipe, no one has any intrinsic duty to understand or accept others.

  • mtrueman||

    Nobody here is talking about intrinsic duty. The guy said: " If they want me to understand, care, and relate, then they need to make the effort, not me."

    This is clearly nonsense. If he wants to understand others, it's up to him to make the effort. Others can't do it for him.

  • Riven||

    Having once been subjected to roofies, I would probably consider using this if I ever decided to drink in public again.

  • ||

    Look, as a man, all I know is ball...and good...and rape.

  • WTF||

    Yeah, and now I must go on a quest for fire since mine just burned out.

  • Doctor Whom||

    Why is the onus on me not to lock my front door? Teach burglars not to burgle.

    Imagine a Venn diagram with two circles marked "Men who need to be told that rape is a bad thing" and "Men who will listen when you tell them that rape is a bad thing." They don't intersect.

  • ||

    I have positioned a stack of pamphlets outside all my unlocked windows titled "So You've Decided to Burgle." Hopefully, any would-be burglars in the area know how to read.

  • ||

    I use the same security, but mine say "So you've decided to commit suicide by entering my home, uninvited"

  • Sudden||

    Yeah, but the trip wire that unleashes the Gatling gun upon their lifting a pamphlet is probably the more effective part of that defense.

  • RBS||

    Also, I think it's time to retire "empower."

  • Swiss Servator, Bern baby Bern||

    That time came at least a decade ago, no?

  • Jordan||

    "Teach men not to rape"

    Um... I get that there may be room for education on what meaningful consent is, but somebody who drugs another person's drink so that person can't physically resist is under no illusions about whether or not what they're doing is kosher. No amount of "teaching" is going to stop guys like that.

  • Brandon||

    It could if teachers were paid more!

    -Karen Lewis

  • ||

    If we had year round schools, this wouldn't happen. There would finally be time to cover the "Rape. What is it good for? NOTHING!" chapter in our 8th grade health class.

    That and we could cover history after WW I.

  • MJGreen||

    Exactly. This nail polish is directed at a particular kind of sexual predator, one that is not merely confused or "needs to be educated," but one that purposefully goes around drugging women. The only way to stop such people is to give others the tools to identify them before a crime is committed.

  • Brandon||

    And, beyond that, tools like Undercover Colors raise questions about the cost of profiting from rape prevention: Is this really a market we should continue to applaud entrepreneurs’ (notably male ones) tapping into? Or might these resources be better allocated trying to teach people not to rape?

    Men shouldn't be allowed to profit by creating effective tools to help women avoid being raped at a price point that some women find agreeable?Cutting-edge feminists are getting more ridiculous by the day.

  • WTF||

    Profit is bad, m'kay?

  • LarryA||

    I bet she'll have the same criticism if I charge for concealed carry classes. Or if I teach them free. (Which I will for people with protective orders.)

  • BiMonSciFiCon||

    "It's better for women to be raped than for men to profit off of the prevention of such rape." /Salon-Jezebel feminism.

  • LarryA||

    Meanwhile, Salon assistant editor Jenny Kutner is skeptical of the polish and yet still distraught that it will be sold and not magically subsidized and distributed freely:

    Anyone want to bet Salon and Jenny Kutner "allocated" their profits?

  • ||

    Salon doesn't have profits, and never has (seriously).

    Though I know you meant revenues.

  • BillEverman||

    You can make a profit by selling nail polish that just sits there being a color, but if it actually serves a purpose, then it's wrong to charge. That makes sense,right?

  • tarran||

    It makes sense in a depressing sort of way if you are the sort of person who believes freedom = "being free from any consequence to one's actions" and that justice should be costless.

    I think we all in some degree strive for these conditions. I don't like having to pay for a locksmith to maintain my door locks to prevent someone else agressing against me. It would be wonderful to live in a society that had no thieves, where locksmith was as archaic a job as the piss collectors who worked for the laundries of ancient Rome.

    However, we will always have thieves, rapists, murderers, asteroids, carnivorous animals, tidal waves, volcanoes, and supergiants itching to go supernova, all of which if allowed to act according to their natures will injure or kill us. To rail that it isn't fair that we have to spend our valuable money, time and consideration on how to protect ourselves against these threats misses the point; life *isn't* fair; the universe is full of forces that will leave you injured or dead and death awaits us all implacably. (cont)

  • tarran||

    To me, the defining characteristic of adulthood is taking responsibility for one's life, and that includes taking the onus (latin for burden) of protecting the things we care about onto our shoulders. I can delegate that burden eg purchase life insurance to fund a trust to care for my children in the event I die; but in the end the buck has to stop with me.

    The people saying "just teach men not to rape" are being childish. They are rejecting that they should bear any burden. They want others to shoulder the burden instead. This is to be expected of a toddler. It is depressing to see it expressed by grown men and women who have graduated college.

  • WTF||

    The people saying "just teach men not to rape" are being childish. They are rejecting that they should bear any burden. They want others to shoulder the burden instead. This is to be expected of a toddler.

    This is modern feminism/leftism in a nutshell.

  • ||

    A lot of people hate, hate, hate personal responsibility, tarran. And some hate it so much that they will create whatever narratives they can to pretend it doesn't exist or to try and advance the notion that they shouldn't have to accept personal responsibility, for anything. This is just one example of that type of attitude.

    It's something I don't get at all since I alone am responsible for everything that I do. If I get myself in a fucked up situation, well, I was stupid. And if I want out of that situation, it's up to me to get myself out. But to the people who don't feel this way, everything is someone else's fault.

  • HolgerDanske||

    You only understand responsibility because you understand liberty. The two are inseparable, and intersect to the point where they are essentially the same concept expressed in different ways.

    However, people who understand liberty to mean "freedom from responsibility" will never understand neither true liberty, nor why it cannot exist without personal responsibility.

  • LarryA||

    This is to be expected of a toddler.

    Fail. My twin grandkids are in the toddler stage, and heavy into "Do it myself!!

  • Sudden||

    To me, the defining characteristic of adulthood is taking responsibility for one's life

    That is plain un-American.

  • anon||

    It makes sense in a depressing sort of way if you are the sort of person who believes freedom = "being free from any consequence to one's actions"

    False premise. Freedom means the exact opposite; accepting responsibility for all of your actions, whether the consequences were intended or not.

  • HolgerDanske||

    Yet a lot of people simply don't understand this. They think the only kind of freedom there is, is freedom FROM responsibility.

    From my personal experience, what it took was a change in the amount of freedom I had (more than before) to inoculate me against this false type of freedom, and helped me embrace the idea that it was inseparable from responsibility.

  • ||

    Meanwhile, Salon assistant editor Jenny Kutner is skeptical of the polish and yet still distraught that it will be sold and not magically subsidized and distributed freely

    Fucking what?

    Or is this just WAR ON WIMMINZZ!!!1!!1!!?

  • WTF||

    If the shit they want isn't paid for by someone else, you are DENYING THEM ACCESS!!!1!!!!

  • Sudden||

    I'm gonna get in on this racket. I just gotta find something I can invent exclusively for female use and let the Sandra Flukes of the world make me rich via govt theft from you poor saps.

    If you can't beat em, right?

  • Remnant Psyche||

    So, basically, you'd rather beat women than join them? [/internet SJWfeminist]

  • Zeb||

    So if everyone would just stop being bad, then we wouldn't have to worry about people doing bad things and people wouldn't have to do anything to protect themselves from other people doing bad things. What a brilliant insight.
    And there are people who don't laugh in these people's faces?

  • ||

    God forbid if one suggests women carry guns.

  • ||

    A man might make a profit on that. And would he donate it to the rest of the rape victims?!?

  • John C. Randolph||

    I make that suggestion quite frequently over on Reddit. The womynz tend to get upset when I do, and make hysterical arguments about how helpless they are and it's my fault.

    -jcr

  • John||

    I think wen like Valemti crave being raped. First, the suffer from so much self loathing that they secretly think they deserve it. Second, their minds are so poisoned by and obsessed with politics they would happily experience even the worst degradation if doing so affirmed their political views. Lastly, they want most of all that red badge of courage known as victim status. If Valenti has never been raped, she no doubt wishes she had. That is how sick. These people are.

  • tarran||

    I disagree. I think they fear it. But they also fear responsibility. They also lack the maturity to asses things like risk and danger. I believe they never matured past that stage in a child's development when they crave freedom to explore while getting complete security and food from their parents.

  • John||

    They consciously fear it but subconsciously desire it at some level.

  • WTF||

    There's a reason 50 Shades of Grey was a huge hit.

  • Sudden||

    Rape fantasy has a long history in wimmenz' minds, predating 50 shades by quite some time.

    The allure of the rape fantasy is the absolution from responsibility. Women, at their craven base, desire a life free of any responsibility for their actions. The false rape accusation epidemic and the desire to label every coital act resulting in a post-coital regret is now being redefined as rape for the very purpose of absolving wimmenz from any responsibility.

    They are a vile breed, the whole lot of them. Sometimes I wish I was gay so I didn't have to put up with their shit.

  • John||

    The allure of the rape fantasy is the absolution from responsibility.

    So you are telling me modern feminism is just a giant rape fantasy? I can't really argue with you there.

  • ||

    Actually, John, he's telling you that about women in general. But at least I get to be a breed, like a horse or a dog. Hopefully a pretty one. Enjoy your men friends, Sudden!

  • SugarFree||

    Much like the beagle, the Nikki breed has a strong prey drive and with often bay at the full moon.

  • ||

    As long as it's not a wire-haired breed. Those women either need to get waxed before they play their race fantasy games with us or they need to find another man to play with.

  • ||

    The Nikki breed is rarely seen but is nevertheless breathtaking.

  • Sudden||

    It should be noted that the lion's share of men also desire a life free from responsibility. Perhaps its a more broadly fucked cultural trend here in the dying West.

    Men are also bad, Nikki. Women are worse. But you, dear, are the worst.

  • ||

    Hey sudden, in all seriousness were seeing if you want to walk that all-women-encompassing statement back a bit and you didn't.

    So are you really telling us that you think all women are vile? Because that's really a load of fucking shit.

  • Sudden||

    I walked it back somewhat below. But I look at it as a rounding error. If 95% of a given population sucks, its easiest just to say "population X sucks" (although not "all of population x sucks"). The level of derp is high enough among the vast majority where it taints the sum of its parts, even if there are some rare decent parts that comprise the sum. You mix a glass of barolo in with a teeming tributary of sewage and it doesn't make the sewage any more bearable.

  • ||

    You mix a glass of barolo in with a teeming tributary of sewage and it doesn't make the sewage any more bearable.

    Again, strangely applicable to your comments.

    What I really want to know, though, is that if both men and women cravenly want to evade responsibility for their actions, and women manifest this via rape fantasy, what's your rape fantasy, Sudden? Is it a fantasy of not being held accountable for collectivist comments? Or perhaps it's a fantasy of us criticizing you for being a dick while insisting that you are apologizing but not repenting?

  • Sudden||

    If we really wanna get deep into it, my rape fantasy (i.e. abrogation of responsibility for my own failures) is probably partially intertwined with my identity as a libertarian. There are things that I have failed to accomplish due largely to my own actions where govt (which in its ubiquitous presence may have impacted a particular failed accomplishment in some, albeit tertiary, way) gets some of my wrath and helps me deflect my own personal failures. I can only maintain that illusion for so long, as once you realize it's really an effort to evade responsibility for your own choices, it negates its entire effectiveness.

    There's some self awareness for you. I'll maintain that none of that serves to undermine my larger libertarian worldview, and that worldview isn't one derived purely from such narrow interests. I just try to have a fair appraisal of my own faults and I know that is among them.

  • ||

    Sudden, the only taint here is you.

    The overwhelming majority,of,women I know or associate with are wonderful people. And yes, I know you've had as shit run of luck lately (and I can relate as I've been there before), but you're painting with way too broad a brush here.

    Come on, man. You're so much better than this.

  • ||

    If 95% of a given population sucks, its easiest just to say "population X sucks" (although not "all of population x sucks").

    Sudden, I hate to have to point this out, but you don't know 95% of women. It may be true that 95% of the women you've met are awful people, but that's a far cry from 95% of women.

    Seriously, you need to take a look at why you're meeting only the awful women.

  • Sudden||

    Seriously, you need to take a look at why you're meeting only the awful women.

    I don't. I've met some wonderful and amazing women. Most of them still have an aspect in their nature that concerns me, but the same holds true largely with men.

    But for some reason, the women I'm generally attracted to are borderline personality disorders and trainwrecks waiting to happen. Sadly my balls weren't imbued with the same thoughtful consideration as my brain.

  • ||

    There's a reason you're attracted to those types. It's not just your balls leading you around. I know it can seem like attraction is involuntary, but I'm really not kidding that there's something inside you that finds those types attractive.

  • ||

    Men are also bad, Nikki. Women are worse.

    Your commenting history might make me question that if I were a collectivist asshole.

  • Sudden||

    I am probably the second worst next to you, m'lady.

    And yeah, "the whole lot of them" was certainly laden with collectivist tripe. I'll not repent, but I'll recognize the error. But the entire point is that vast swaths of humanity are so wretched that finding the rare gem is the exception to the rule. It's easier to just round up and say all people suck than break down the exact percentages.

    Obilgatory caveat: While most people suck, that does not mean you should assume a single person sucks until they open their mouth or pen an article for Salon to prove it.

  • ||

    Men are also bad, Nikki. Women are worse.

    As someone who dates men, I find this sentence a little surreal. There's nuttiness regardless of sex or sexual orientation. And submission fantasies are hardly the sole province of women.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    And submission fantasies are hardly the sole province of women.

    I think you told me about that "movie" as well.

    Because that's the only way my mind can comprehend why a possessor of a Y chromosome would willingly subject himself to such tripe.

  • ||

    I think you told me about that "movie" as well.

    HOW WAS THAT MOVIE EVEN MADE? Although Ryan Kwanten has a great ass, so I may have to watch it at some point.

    Damn it.

  • Sudden||

    My understanding from the high-end escort world of political scandals is that its generally very powerful men who desire submission (think Elliot Spitzer). I think that plays into the same desire to be free of responsibility for their actions. The powerful male types that engage in the submission fantasies have considerable responsibilities and pressures (and it should be noted, women have higher responsibilities where sex is concerned due to the chance of pregnancy). I believe the submissive fantasy is a byproduct of wanting to escape responsibility.

  • ||

    its generally very powerful men who desire submission

    I think we hear about those because they're high profile. Human sexuality is weird. I've been surprised about how often cuckolding comes up.

    Dominatrices are also just the most obvious form of submission for men. You can get more complicated with some variant of cuckolding or having threeways where the primary male partner is essentially left out. The whole raunch side of things can also be acting out a submissive role, or it can be playing with cultural taboos. People are varied and strange, and it's awesome.

  • ||

    Hey Sudden, I'd sure appreciate it if you'd clarify what you mean by "vile breed, the whole lot of them,"

    Because if you're speaking in generalities that include my wife, mother, daughters and many other women I know then I am gonna have to tell you to go fuck yourself.

  • Sudden||

    Am I not permitted to engage in my occassional bouts of hyperbole, damnit?

  • ||

    Am I not permitted to engage in my occassional bouts of hyperbole, damnit?

    The problem is they're not occasional, and they're not hyperbole. Your collectivism and bitterness and hatred bleeds through in virtually every comment you make.

    You seriously need to engage in some self-reflection.

  • Sudden||

    Self-reflection can be found above.

    And you collectivize as well at times (namely, cops). Granted, I know that's a chosen identity as opposed to something that nature imbued a person with so the collectivization may function with a higher correlation, but at its root its the same fundamental thought process.

    I don't think that an anti-collectivist mentality need be necessarily blind to population trends that can be observed. If 90% of cops you've interacted with are semi-literate fuckstains, it's perfectly reasonable to approach all interactions with a cop with your guard up and to walk around with a general disdain for police. But if the cop you're interacting with at the time somehow proves himself to be a member of that rare 10%, then it behooves you to recognize that.

    Again, like I said, my smaple dataset probably sucks on account of where I live and the generation I'm a part of.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    They are a vile breed, the whole lot of them. Sometimes I wish I was gay so I didn't have to put up with their shit.

    Don't be Lindy West's porn.

  • JW||

    You might want to try a self-examination there, chief.

    My record at choosing compatible mates is probably as poor as you can get, but I had a significant role to play in those flaming disasters.

  • ||

    Women, at their craven base, desire a life free of any responsibility for their actions.

    This is one of the cuntiest things I've ever read. You should start backpedaling a lot faster.

  • Sudden||

    I only pedaled further and extended that most men as well. I guess I'm more misanthropic than anything.

    Again, let's include the caveats:

    Not all people/women/men/seahorses/sexbots are like that. Just that the percentages seem high enough that it's easier to make a blanket statement than try to isolate the exact percentages of the breakdown.

    And please note that I live in Los Angeles, so the odds are my dataset may produce skewed results.

  • ||

    LA people are fine. Jesus Christ, stop nursing your hurt feelings because some girl dumped you or whatever. Life is better when you're not a cunt.

  • ||

    Collectivism clearly makes the most sense when you're dealing with large groups of people, such as those found in megacities.

  • SugarFree||

    Life is better when you're not a cunt.

    The motto of a short-lived, but by all accounts successful Coca-Cola ad campaign in the mid-1980s.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • ||

    I keep my craven base right behind my tum button. Just FYI.

  • Sudden||

    Rape fantasy has a long history in wimmenz' minds, predating 50 shades by quite some time.

    The allure of the rape fantasy is the absolution from responsibility. WomenAll people, at their craven basesome point in time, desire a life moment free of any responsibility for their actions. The false rape accusation epidemic and the desire to label every coital act resulting in a post-coital regret is now being redefined as rape for the very purpose of absolving wimmenz from any responsibility.

    They are a vile breed, the whole lot of them. Sometimes I wish I was gay so I didn't have to put up with their shit.

    Edited, to highlight the bits that I felt important to note and redact the shit that was clearly hyperbolic and doesn't exactly fit with my long and illustrious commenting history here.

  • ||

    I love that photo of Valenti sticking her tits out hoping to get noticed by accused rapist Bill Clinton.

  • KPres||

    Like how you want a job but don't want to go through a grueling interview. Nobody wants to be raped...but having been raped is like striking gold in their world, where pity serves as a form of currency.

  • Jeff R.||

    I think part of the issue, also is they're unable to view the world through anything but simplistic binary categories of oppressors and the oppressed, victims and victimizers, good people and bad people, etc. The result is every man looks like a potential rapist to them, every woman is oppressed, every instance of inequality between men and women is evidence of sexism and patriarchal oppression or manipulation, etc.

    Ideology: dangerous in the wrong hands.

  • ||

    As a woman, I’m told not to go out alone at night, to watch my drink, to do all of these things. That way, rape isn’t just controlling me while I’m actually being assaulted—it controls me 24/7 because it limits my behavior. Solutions like these actually just recreate that. I don’t want to fucking test my drink when I’m at the bar. That’s not the world I want to live in.

    As a person, I'm told not to go out in dangerous neighborhoods at dangerous times, to watch my drink and make sure it isn't tampered with, to do all of these things to make sure strangers have less chance of harming me. That way, existing in the world isn't just controlling me while I'm actually being assaulted by harmful strangers—it controls me 24/7 because it limits my behavior. Solutions like these actually just recreate that. I don't want to fucking make sure my drink hasn't been tampered with. That's not the world I want to live in.

    I'd much prefer one where everyone else disappeared so no one could possibly control my behavior by getting me to be more careful of strangers.

  • John||

    As a man, I shouldn't have to be told walking around bad neighborhoods flashing my iPhone around is a bad idea.

    These women are more than just stupid. They are insane.

  • John||

    As a man, I shouldn't have to be told walking around bad neighborhoods flashing my iPhone around is a bad idea.

    These women are more than just stupid. They are insane.

  • WTF||

    These women are more than just stupid. They are insane.

    And yet they wield political influence and shape our social policies and laws.

  • ||

    Yeah, I don't get it. It's not blaming the victim to tell people that they are responsible for protecting themselves.

  • Zeb||

    The fact is that there are bad people out there. Yes, it would be great if we could convince everyone to stop harming other people. But until that happens, being right about how the world should be doesn't stop you from getting raped.

  • MJGreen||

    Why can't I do anything I want at any time I want?

    GUH, it's isn't FAIR!!

  • ||

    I'd much prefer one where everyone else disappeared so no one could possibly control my behavior by getting me to be more careful of strangers.

    I Am Legend!

    or the good version, Omega Man!

  • Remnant Psyche||

    Or the even better version, The Last Man on Earth.

    Or the very best version, the novella.

  • ||

    The first advice I was given at a high school party, by a burly football player friend, was "never leave your drink unattended", so that line jumped out at me too.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    The first advice I was given at a high school party, by a burly football player friend, was "never leave your drink unattended",

    I think you told me about this "movie".

  • ||

    Yeah, it could have just been for the sake of political correctness, but in high school when they told us about date rape drugs they never singled out the girls for watching their drinks, they warned all of us.

  • anon||

    Want to "solve" rape?

    Legalize prostitution.

    /argument.

  • Zeb||

    I very much doubt that most rapists do their thing because there aren't enough prostitutes available or because they are concerned about the legality of visiting one.
    Most rapists rape because they get off on rape, not because they can't get laid otherwise.

  • ||

    You're talking about forceable rape.

    I suspect a lot of 'ruffie rapists' are people who are afraid of women and rejection, but would take advantage of prostitutes if they were available and not stigmatized.

  • Zeb||

    Yeah, maybe. I'm not going to pretend to understand the mind of a rapist. I'm sure there are many different things that motivate such people.
    But even in the case of using roofies (or the old stand by alcohol), anecdotal evidence suggests that a lot of people doing that sort of thing get off on the whole thing. The sex can't be that good.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    "Our goal is to invent technologies that empower women to protect themselves from this heinous and quietly pervasive crime,"

    Jumping Jeezis on a solid gold pogo stick.

    Those poor, powerless, feeble minded little flowers could never learn situational awareness, but technocracy will save them.

  • anon||

    Brooks, I'd argue that a nail polish that detects "date rape drugs" exponentially increases one's situational awareness.

  • BuSab Agent||

    When your existence, income, and influence are dependent on the existence of a problem, of course you are going to fight anything that might actually lessen the severity of that problem. See any bureaucracy ever.

  • ||

    Yup, true of all special interests groups ever. The thing is, the people who are complaining here have abstracted a violent physical crime into a political football that loses its "reality" to them at a certain point. "Rape" becomes a totem, a supernatural symbol for everything they perceive as wrong, as opposed to what it actually is: the violent sexual assault of a person.

    That's why they're so fucking retarded about it. Because it's not rape any more to them. It's KULTUR WAR and GENDER WAR and a source of income and a source of political power. And that warps their perceptions accordingly.

  • Zeb||

    The only solution that they will accept is the completely impractical one that will never happen.

  • ||

    There are people out there who actually want to stamp out bad things, like polio or rape or drunk driving accidents. But the problem is, once you bring awareness of the problem to people, the bandwagoners will latch on. They will infest any organization that's set up. They are people who are attracted to the appearance of "doing something" and how that makes them look socially. They can be attracted to the money paid in non-profit salaries, or the power to push for CONTROL.

    It's highly unfortunate that the way our society works, people who end up advocating for do-gooder policies have terrible incentives. And most primarily, the strongest incentive is to not actually solve any problems, because then the money and the power and the social standing go away. If there's no drunk driving, there's no need for MADD. If there are no rapes, there's no need for anyone to listen to Lindy West blather about it.

    Incentives matter.

  • ||

    If there are no rapes, there's no need for anyone to listen to Lindy West blather about it.

    Yeah but she would then just blather about the girls pink toy section at K-Mart and how sexist Mario video games are.

  • Zeb||

    Wendy O Koopa is a feminist icon.

  • JW||

    They are people who are attracted to the appearance of "doing something" and how that makes them look socially.

    What are we going to have to dump on our heads to stop rape?

    I'm challenging YOU, Epi.

  • ||

    The only thing the bull semen ever did for me is activate my gag reflex.

  • ||

    But you kept trying anyway?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    ALL SEX IS RAPE.

    What kind of nail polish will fix that?

  • Swiss Servator, Bern baby Bern||

    Heavily poisoned nail polish.

  • ||

    Whatever kind Lindy West wears, because there is no way in hell I'd put my dick in that.

  • John||

    Serious question. What kind of parents raise a daughter who grows into a Lindy West or Valenti? Did they jus not notice their little snowflake had gone insane?

  • anon||

    Rapists, John. Rapists.

  • AuH20||

    I tried to once make it through Marcotte's book "It's a Jungle Out There: Surviving Hostile Enviroments as a Feminist" as a lark.

    I don't even know how to describe the insanity.

  • John||

    Her prose is flat out unreadable. She makes Sad Beard sound almost coherent by comparison.

  • JW||

    The she-spawn lives on tumblr and I have to keep reminding her that most men, in fact nearly all men, won't rape her. They may lie, cheat and steal to get into your pants, but 99%+ of them won't do it without your permission.

    It's the self-reinforcing, bug-eyed insanity of the Internet.

  • anon||

    OT: It's time we divided society into those that don't want any personal responsibility whatsoever for their choices and actions, and those that do.

    I dictate the former are now fully owned as slaves by the latter. I'll relieve you of all your choices so long as you are my slave. If you don't agree, then fucking suck it up dickwad.

  • ||

    Nail polish is weird.

    I suspect the whole point is to get high off the fumes. Cuz it sure as hell does not make a woman's hand more attractive.

  • Marshall Gill||

    Cuz it sure as hell does not make a woman's hand more attractive.

    I get exactly the opposite effect.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Stirring her drink with her finger sends the wrong message to her date.

    Also, I'm curious about the tag on this article. What does anything have to do with the Egyptian sun god?

  • anon||

    Everyone knows Ra loved him some rape.

  • Rich||

    It's "Rape Prevention", Fist -- Get it?

  • Elizabeth Nolan Brown||

    Squirrels ate the rest of my tag for a while.

  • Mongo||

    Last month, I was at a bar and wanted to bang a hot chick there. My friend gives me some roofies and says: "Here, use these."

    I thanked him, downed the pills, and the next day I woke up in a closet with a bleeding anus.

  • Marshall Gill||

    Be careful if you get in a sleeper hold because your anus will really, really hurt

    http://www.cc.com/video-clips/.....uncensored

  • Rev-Match||

    Similarly, I find it hard to believe the mere existence of discreet date-rape detection tools would lead to the belief that anyone not employing them deserves being drugged.

    I see this as an extension of the socialist (feminazi) "not giving=taking" philosophy. Note how they would probably all expect it to subsidized.

  • Marty Feldman's Eyes||

    And, beyond that, tools like Undercover Colors raise questions about the cost of profiting from rape prevention: Is this really a market we should continue to applaud entrepreneurs’ (notably male ones) tapping into? Or might these resources be better allocated trying to teach people not to rape?

    That order of feminism comes with a nice side dish of socialism. Resources that belong to someone else are for allocating, even when those resources didn't exist before this product was made and sold at a profit.

  • Mainer2||

    Personal responsibility in the real world:

    Jesus H Christ. Private Pyle, why is your footlocker unlocked?

    Sir, I don't know, sir.

    Private Pyle, if there is one thing in this world that I hate, it is an unlocked footlocker! You know that don't you?

    Sir, yes, sir.

    If it wasn't for dickheads like you, there wouldn't be any thievery in this world, would there?

    Sir, no, sir.

  • Rich||

    +1 FMJ

  • WTF||

    Are you quitting on me? Well, are you? Then quit, you slimy fucking walrus-looking piece of shit! Get the fuck off of my obstacle! Get the fuck down off of my obstacle! NOW! MOVE IT! Or I'm going to rip your balls off, so you cannot contaminate the rest of the world! I will motivate you, IF IT SHORT-DICKS EVERY CANNIBAL ON THE CONGO!

  • Jensen||

    "At the crux of most of these police complaints about Ferguson is the axiom that we should teach black people not to riot and destroy property. And that's an important message!"

    See how it sounds when you qualify it with race ENB? Maybe 'feminists' shouldn't engage in moronic strawmen about 'teaching men not to rape'? Maybe you shouldn't insult the collective intelligences of men by arguing the reason why rape happens is because rapists weren't constantly told not to? Seriously, I can't believe such a childish position is held up as some legitimate plan.

  • WTF||

    You're right, it's not an important message, it's idiotic. I am disappoint that ENB buys into that collective guilt crap.

  • Dances-with-Trolls||

    I'm sure it seems like a perfectly natural thing to "teach men not to rape" when you have redefined rape to include so many things that aren't, well, actually rape.

  • WTF||

    Of course, when everything is rape, it becomes kind of hard to teach what is and isn't actually rape.

  • GILMORE||

    About this "Teaching Men Not To Rape"

    I never actually received the instructions, yet strangely have never raped anything or anyone.

    What happened?! It must be one of those *Bizarre, Lucky Accidents*

  • WTF||

    You know, I never received formal instruction on how not to rob, cheat, steal, and commit assault and murder, but I have managed to avoid doing that shit. I must be some kind of savant.

  • JW||

    There have to be some classes you could audit at the Continuing Adult Education center.

  • ||

    As a horny 13 yr old, I may have raped the cushions on the couch, but I think they were asking for it.

  • JW||

    Amusing that the whingers would be the some of the same people who would accuse of right-to-carry people of being paranoid.

    Maybe if you stopped expecting every man you encounter to be a rapist, you might actually enjoy life more.

  • Mainer2||

    People making childish pronouncements about how the world ought to be is a minor annoyance. The fact that they are taken seriously is a problem. Then they have the nerve to claim they are the adults and the rest of us are the children.

  • GILMORE||

    Good point.

    There should be a Trigger Warning applied to every "Rape Culture" article saying =

    Below Is Some Dumb Shit Which Should Probably Be Ignored - However, Its The Internet, and We Need Them Clicks

    Or something to that effect

  • Mainer2||

    Gilmore: There is more wit in one Independents Attire Review than all of Botard's posts combined. Just thought I'd mention that.

  • GILMORE||

    Amazing how in these people*'s discussions, no one noted that most "Date-Rape Drugs" are 'Self Administered'

    Which basically means that Women are rape-enablers.

    *(i don't call them women or men or feminists, those terms being too *oppressive*)

  • SIV||

    What good is nail polish that doesn't even test for the most common (by far) date rape drug?

  • AuH20||

    "Mainstream" liberal feminism is greatly informed by acadamia and is built on a lot of Marxist assumptions.

    You will seriously hear "mainstream" liberal feminists argue that the right to abortion is meaningless if you can't pay for one- ie it excludes poor women- so the government must pay for it. They don't make the same argument when it comes to, say, political speech (They tend to advocate for publicly funded elections, but not money given to the NRA to broadcast radio ads).

    Secondly, they are collectivists. Rape isn't caused by individuals- it is caused by culture. And men. Except transmen. Or people with penises who don't identify as men. Except lesbians can rape. But they don't like to talk about that, just as they don't like to talk about women-commited domestic abuse.

    Anyway, they believe this culture can only be combated by "education". Education conducted by, you guessed it, liberal feminist, preferably with a gender or queer studies degree. So, rather than being a useless degree, it becomes a degree that gets you a pubsec job.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    You will seriously hear "mainstream" liberal feminists argue that the right to abortion is meaningless if you can't pay for one

    And Tony

  • ||

    To b e fair, Tony is what passes for "mainstream" liberal feminist...

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Those goddam buses everywhere!

  • WTF||

    The right to keep and bear arms is meaningless if you can't afford a gun. It excludes poor people, so the government must provide everyone with guns.

  • Jensen||

    Now that's some free shit I could get behind.

    A chicken in every pot, and a machine gun on every mantle.

  • Mainer2||

    If we get any choice, I'll take a Kimber Ultra Carry in 45 ACP, please.

  • WTF||

    You'll take your Obamagun and you'll like it.

  • Doghouse Reilly||

    It'll be a Hi-Point C9, only at 5x the original cost, because bureaucracy and government acquisitions process.

  • AlbedoAtoned||

    There is at least one strain of feminism that actually doesn't get along with trans women. Look up the term "womyn born womyn". It's a policy some places, many of them feminist that purposefully exclude transgendered and transsexual women.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    I started clicking thru on the links but then I started to lose my grip on reality and thought the better of it.

  • LarryA||

    One of the ways that rape is used as a tool to control people is by limiting their behavior.
    +
    At the crux of most of these complaints is the axiom that we should teach men not to rape instead of teaching women not to be raped.

    1. So the way to not control women using rape is to place men in control of not raping women. Cognitive disconnect much?
    2. Nail polish gets criticized because it only helps in a limited percent of cases, but "teaching men not to rape" has to be 100% voluntarily effective before women are safe. ("Sorry. You were attacked by the one guy we haven't convinced yet.")

  • GILMORE||

    also, i'm beginning to suspect that this "teaching men not to rape"-thing is just a 101 course in the "Things You Need To Think"-academy

    I'm not sure it starts and ends there. Its like Kindergarden. when it was over my mom congratulated me, and the teacher said, "he'll be great in 1st grade!"

    I recoiled in shock: There's MORE?

  • Remnant Psyche||

    My mom likes to tell the story of my first day of school. Short version: when I got home, I had a similar reaction. "I have to go back tomorrow!?"

  • OldMexican||

    One of the ways that rape is used as a tool to control people is by limiting their behavior. As a woman, I'm told not to go out alone at night, to watch my drink, to do all of these things.


    Oh? So are you turning full libertarian all of a sudden?

    By the way, bad things entice all people to limit their behavior. For instance, it's been a long time since idiots have jumped from the Eiffel Tower with makeshift parachutes. Because of gravity.

    I don't want to fucking test my drink when I'm at the bar. That's not the world I want to live in.


    I don't want to test my brakes when I want to drive my car, yet there you have it. We live in a physical world with limitations, scarcity and bad people. Either you raise your situational awareness or you will be a victim all your life.

    And I believe this is the crux of the matter: Feminists are NOT about empowering women or raising their situational awareness. Things like that nail polish would reduce the number of victims required by the feminists to keep their movement (and income) alive.

  • Mainer2||

    I wonder what went through Franz Reichelt's mind when he jumped.

  • GILMORE||

    The sidewalk

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    "OK, men, final exam in the how not to rape course.

    "Question 1: You're walking on campus late a night, and this cute coed with a short skirt is walking nearby. There are no other people in sight. What do you do?"

    "Grab, her, drag her into the bushes, and have my way with her?"

    "OK, very creative answer, but what I was looking for was *don't* grab her.

    "OK, Question 2 - what is best in life?"

    "Ooh, I know! To defeat your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women! And rape them!"

    "Ooooh-kay, I was hoping you'd say something more along the lines of 'brotherhood, and rights, and freedom, and respecting people's boundaries.'

    "I'm gonna be frank with you - I won't be able to pass you. I don't even think you've been reading the assigned material."

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    "Oh, wait, there's an exclamation point between "don't" and "stop" - no wonder I scored so low on the test.

  • Mainer2||

    OH ! Please don't ! Stop !

    Oh Please ! Dont' Stop !

  • Marshall Gill||

    Just remember, 1000 no's and one yes is still a yes.

  • JW||

    teaching men not to rape

    It's probably time to make sure that my rape certification doesn't expire. I'd hate to have to take those tests again.

  • ||

    The written tests are mandatory, but the practical exercise only has to be taken if you let certification expire.

    I got a ninety out of a hundred. If I hadn't forgot to signal before penetrating that coed, I'd have aced it!

  • Knarf Yenrab!||

    Tell me about it. Cramming is so stressful.

  • GILMORE||

    And they say Women Never Rape?....

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • ||

  • Real American||

    I guess we just need to teach blacks not to attack the police or neighborhood watchmen with guns.

    Maybe we can teach terrorists not to behead journalists or bomb Israel.

    Maybe we can teach Russians not to invade other countries.

    Heck, if only we taught Hitler not to perpetrate the Holocaust!

    WHO KNEW THAT WAS ALL WE NEEDED TO DO?

  • Agile Cyborg||

    The Jezebel/Salon prog-feminist is safe from being raped by even Klingons who will rape just about any hairy hump of flesh with a pink castle- so, I guess if you can afford nail polish and are rape 'material' that just won't do, deario. Find your place in progbozo culture and stay vulnerable, womyns.

  • Loki||

    do you have any plans to donate your profits to help protect the remainder of the 18 percent?
    ...
    Salon assistant editor Jenny Kutner is skeptical of the polish and yet still distraught that it will be sold and not magically subsidized and distributed freely

    And there it is: "GIVE ME MONEY!" That's what it always seems to come down to.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Isn't this essentially the socon argument against the HPV vaccine?

  • John||

    Sort of. I am not sure how that helps Valente and company though.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    I don't think it does. I was just pointing out the irony of radical feminists increasingly resorting to religious conservative style rhetoric on sex issues.

  • Agile Cyborg||

    It's not 'increasing', Stormy. Radical feminism has always had an affinity with religious conservatives on pornography, in particular, which goes back to the 70's and Dworkin.

    You'll also find radical feminism in many corners has for decades also supported the religious insanity of the burqa and its preservation of female sexuality in light of the male gaze.

  • trshmnster the terrible||

    They are all shoots of the same tree. They all start their sentences the same way, "we need to impose our morality through law because..."

    It just so happens that some progs finish the sentence with "Jesus", some with "Patriarchy", and some with one of a variety of other PC buzz words.

  • trshmnster the terrible||

    Too much cultural focus for too long has been on how a women's own conduct contributed or may contribute to her assault, in a way that winds up absolving assailants of culpability

    I don't think that's true, and to the extent that it is, it's likely due to unintended consequences the dehumanization of men. When you see all men as potential rape machines, you tend to focus on what the women can do, since they're the person in the situation.

    Furthermore, the idea that you can improve the situation with action to prevent potential rapists from raping AND action to make potential victims less likely to be raped is far from "absolving assailants of culpability." It's just realism. The same realism that people employ to take reasonable precautions against robbery can be used to take reasonable precautions against rape. However, nobody has accused people of going light on robbers for putting a lock on the front door. Somehow, it's bad to be proactive against rape, but it's OK to be proactive against every other crime. That's a strange dissonance that betrays a less beneficial motive than simply preventing rape.

  • Gleep Glop||

    If it is true that we all live in a patriarchal society, why isn't rape legal in most jurisdictions? IOW, how do these people explain why rape is illegal if we live in the so-called "rape culture"?

    I'm not aware of any jurisdiction that explicitly allows this kind of behaviour but I'm willing to be enlightened.

  • mtrueman||

    It is illegal but a 'rape culture' is one where rape is liked to unavoidable natural phenomena such as 'asteroids, carnivorous animals, tidal waves, volcanoes etc.'

  • DWC||

    And you have those who, following in the deep footsteps of Andrea Dworkin who would argue that ALL sex is rape.

  • Agile Cyborg||

    Dworkin's psychosis launched the rebellious sex-positive wing of Feminism.

    With its candor, pragmatism, and focus on female individualism this type of feminism strikes me as a thought construct worthy of respect and consideration.

  • brec||

    A team of undergraduate students at North Carolina State University has developed a novel solution ... [emphasis added]

    Uh, no. According to bizjournals.com:

    "We are early in the R&D stage for this important product," says Tyler Confrey-Maloney, spokesperson for Undercover Colors, declining to provide further comment. [emphasis added]

    In other words, these kids had an idea...

  • Frank2k14||

    I haven't read that the makers of this nail polish make any claim that it will stop ALL rapes and sexual assault. Also, yes, feminists, in a perfect world, the real solution is to teach boys not to rape or assault ; that is understood. But what is wrong with advocating for yourself just a little ? As Ms. Nolan Brown sates " Are we supposed to prefer they get drugged and assaulted while we're waiting for a perfect, rape-free culture? " I think the feminists that have a problem with this only do so b/c the creators are men and they are profiting from it. If the creators were women, they would be getting applause.

  • ||

    ".....do you have any plans to donate your profits to help...."

    "....profiting from rape prevention: Is this really a market we should continue to applaud entrepreneurs’ (notably male ones) tapping into? Or might these resources be better allocated trying to teach people not to rape?"

    I think I see the real problem here and it has nothing to do with rape.

  • Cyto||

    Well, there's also those evil "rape whistle" manufacturers. And the pepper spray conglomerates. And the taser magnates.

  • bhavinder||

  • Freddy B||

    I mentioned this to my daughter, might have been something she could use as she is a typical college student. She said she already knew about it and said she'd prefer to get her conceal carry.

    Time for me to go gun shopping with her. Any suggestions(she's small frame and dainty hands)?

  • HolgerDanske||

    It's difficult to say what kind of gun without her shooting a variety first. Most ranges will let you rent different types and calibers.

    Go to a range, rent as many guns as possible. Start with the lowest recoil caliber (like .22) possible, this will help reinforce that shooting isn't difficult or painful. But pick a slightly bigger cartridge for actual self defense.

    Consider the various factors, women often have difficulty racking a slide, and small (carry size) guns pack a punch for the shooter's wrist. But continued training and technique is everything.

    Clearing a semi-automatic pistol is slower, where a double-action revolver you can just keep pressing the trigger. Revolvers are slower to reload.

    Purse carry is not considered a good idea by some, a purse is easily taken, lost, or forgotten. Look into flashbang holsters.

    Finally, the mentality is important, is she ready to potentially take a life in self defense? And equally important are the laws and understanding consequences of your actions.

    Sorry if you already knew all this :)

  • Freddy B||

    My son keeps me somewhat gun fluent, bought him a nice sidearm when bears moved near his hunting lease. He suggested a revolver for her since he thought accidental fire was less likely and reload likely wouldn't be an issue. Suppose I'll take her to the range, just want to steer her toward something practical, I suspect recoil will be an issue for her. Just looking for input away from the gun range, trust them, but would like to have the right questions for them and my daughter. Thanks.

  • HolgerDanske||

    A revolver sounds like a good option. Safe and easy to use, reloads depends on your familiarity. Check out the Ruger LCR, or ask your son for his preferences?

    Recoil can be managed, and small ladies can shoot big guns as well. The most important part is training and familiarity. Make sure she takes a concealed carry class with her gun.

  • american socialist||

    Hi Elizabeth,

    I'm just wondering what the frequency of articles on Reason is going to be where libertarians make ridiculous generalizations about liberals because of statements by people, who may share my opinions on taxes and social security, with a bee in their bonnet. I mean, i work with and live with women who are independent, funny, and politically liberal who wouldn't care that someone is selling a nail polish that detects ghb-- besides, maybe, a mild discuss-- "you mean I have to stick my finger in my gin and tonic?

    With yesterday's article on the hard left drift of the Democrat party and your contribution today I take it the number is one per day. Maybe you should turn it into a series so that those of us who do still find distinction between someone stealing your wallet and the taxman can prepare ourselves for this intellectual onslaught. You go, girl.

  • BillEverman||

    Funny, I would think that if a guy is caught trying to drug a woman and ends up with a drink in the face/kick in the groin/pleasant time with local law enforcement/fall down a couple flights of stairs, that would be pretty educational, both for him and any other would-be rapists who might be watching. Two birds, one stone. You're welcome.

  • JewPenis||

    What the fuck does this nail polish have to do with personal responsibility? Who is seriously suggesting that women who don't buy this nail polish and stick their fingers in their drink are somehow less responsible than those who don't? There isn't an ounce of evidence that this stuff would prevent rapes. Personal responsibility is watching your drink. Personal responsibility is not letting a stranger buy you a drink. This nail polish is bullshit.

  • bassjoe||

    Dude...you okay?

  • JewPenis||

    Because I think this nail polish is a scam? That means I'M not ok? Right...

  • AlbedoAtoned||

    Nobody said that those who didn't use the nail polish was less responsible. You must have been imagining it.

    1. First of all, this isn't even out. From the sound of things, this is still in RND.

    2. While I agree with you that the most responsible thing would be to buy your own drinks and to watch it to make sure that nobody sticks anything in it. Wouldn't something like this help. I won't say that forgoing buying it makes you less responsible, but surely it can't hurt.

    3. If and when it comes out, you are free to not buy it. Nobody is forcing you. You aren't being deprived from it because it isn't even out yet, It may work, it may not. It isn't like a little consumer testing won't figure it out. Why assume that it's a scam when it hasn't even been released yet?

  • JewPenis||

    AlbedoAtoned,

    You are one big dummy...the guy right underneath you is saying exactly what you say 'Nobody' is saying. If you couldn't tell that was implicit in many the comments then read what that other dummy said.

  • JeffreyinSandySprings||

    opposite is true - women who use this product are actively responsible in preventing their own rape. That makes them more responsible not less.

    Same with contraceptives - women who carry their own condoms are more responsible than those that don't.

    In both cases, the women may feel that the responsibility is "not theirs' but that is small consolation if the worse happens if they didn't take the extra step to protect themselves.

  • bassjoe||

    What does "teach men not to rape" even mean? The vast majority of us men would never THINK of raping a woman -- or even touching her in a way she finds offensive. "No" is a simple word to understand.

    For the men who DO think rape is "okay", they can't be taught! That's why they go to prison for a very long time when they're caught.

    Is this nail polish thing kind of gimmicky and a little silly? Eh, yeah. But it was invented by undergrads who go to college parties/bars and probably have a better idea of what would work in those settings than these feminists blasting screeds from their home offices.

  • SimonD||

    Don't forget these leftist types are the ones who explicitly removed ANY moral teachings from our school. So it's hard to accept their 'teach men not to rape' gimmick when they are the ones who cause men to not be taught these things.
    Unintended consequences are a bi**h.

  • lap83||

    "For the men who DO think rape is "okay", they can't be taught!"

    The problem is likely that they WERE taught, but it was the wrong thing. Men generally learn how to treat women by watching their father. When they're old enough to emulate it, the damage is already done.

  • JeffreyinSandySprings||

    "men who think rape is OK"

    Men (at least ones in the western tradition) know rape is wrong- the ones that do it simply don't care. Same with just about any crime. So that argument is wrong from the start.
    But so is the Radical Feminist belief that anything a man does for a woman is evil simply because he is a man. It is also stupid to think that the creators of this product should not be making money off of it
    Drug companies make money off of life saving drugs otherwise they wouldn't be able to exist. Apparently Feminists lack knowledge of basic economic reality

    Kind of makes me wonder why in the world anyone would listen to these people because they are very ignorant

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    See the problem with abortions is that they're only a partial solution to the problem of unwanted pregnancies. What we need to do is teach women to abstain if they aren't prepared to have a child, and abortions should be banned because they're not a complete solution. Precisely the same logic applied against the nail polish, but somehow I don't think the feminists would approve. But it was never really about solving the problem, was it?

  • JeffreyinSandySprings||

    this shows more their absolute hatred of men rather than their concern for women. Of course this is in the abstract (which feminists - group identity types don't understand) because it is impossible to hate "men" anymore than it is impossible to hate any group. Groups are made up of individuals and unless you know each member of a group individually it is impossible to hate every one of them. The only men that they tolerate are the ones who surrender their will and intellectual freedom to radical feminist ideology.

    It shows complete intellectual immaturity and dishonesty.

  • FuriousFatMan||

    the only lesson we can take from this article is that no matter what you do, what you give them, women will always find something to bitch about.

    the motto of feminism should be "you're doing it wrong" printed on a giant finger pointing at a man.

    cuz, that's all they got.

    bitching. and complaining. and general cuntyness... cuntiness? hmm..

  • See.More||

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