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Violence

Charlie Kirk Assassinated

Plus: Poland and NATO, gene editing and God, and more...

Liz Wolfe | 9.11.2025 9:31 AM

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Charlie Kirk on his show | Dave Decker/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom
(Dave Decker/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom)

A dark day: Charlie Kirk, the 31-year-old conservative activist (and father of two), was murdered yesterday at a campus speaking event in Utah. We seem to be entering an era of heightened political violence. It is profoundly, disturbingly sad. And it may have consequences we cannot yet know.

Kirk was fiery, passionate, and provocative. He valued the art of persuasion, of discourse, of changing a mind or letting your own be molded, as it so often is, by fierce exchange. He was a great evangelist for the conservative cause, launching Turning Point USA back in 2012, just a year or two before that wave of wokeness really infiltrated, with backing from former Tea Party types. His sense of timing was impeccable. 

He took young people seriously and saw college campuses as the ideological incubators that they are—for good ideas, and for toxic ones. As he grew up, he modeled the values he professed: He was a married father of two young children, and a devout Christian. He returned to college campuses—like Utah Valley University, where he was yesterday—even as he amassed more and more fame, featuring a "Prove Me Wrong" table at these events, where he'd invite some students to debate him.

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"The Great, and even Legendary, Charlie Kirk, is dead. No one understood or had the Heart of the Youth in the United States of America better than Charlie," wrote President Donald Trump on social media. "He was loved and admired by ALL, especially me, and now, he is no longer with us."

In an address following the assassination, Trump called Kirk a "martyr for truth and freedom." 

"My administration will find each and every one of those who contributed to this atrocity and to other political violence, including the organizations that fund it and support it, as well as those who go after our judges, law enforcement officials, and everyone else who brings order to our country," Trump said. But lots of people on the left just couldn't resist the urge to blame Kirk for his own demise, or suppress their hatred of the president even for a few moments. "[He is] constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate speech, aimed at certain groups," said Matthew Dowd on MSNBC. "I always go back to, hateful thoughts lead to hateful words, which often then to hateful actions." MSNBC anchor Katy Tur speculated that the president might "use the Charlie Kirk shooting as a justification for something bad." (Prosecuting the killer, once found, to the full extent that the law allows does not strike me as "something bad" but maybe Tur disagrees.)

Predictions: Will the new deplatforming consist of colleges claiming that security for conservative speakers is just too darn expensive? Look for ways this might get twisted into a means of controlling right-leaning speech. Will the many MSNBC pundits who said nasty things face any professional consequences for their seemingly sincere beliefs (that conservatives have it coming, or that they're reaping what they've sown, or that political violence is in some way justified)? (So far, one actually has.) Masks just keep slipping every time this kind of thing happens.

Bluesky is reacting exactly like you would have expected pic.twitter.com/oQAPtyjgrL

— Robert Sterling (@RobertMSterling) September 10, 2025

Last year, an extremist tried to assassinate Trump, then campaigning in Butler, Pennsylvania. A few months ago, a Free-Palestiner named Elias Rodriguez murdered two young Israeli embassy staffers—on the eve of their engagement—outside an event for young Jewish professionals. There was the murder of health care executive Brian Thompson, for which Luigi Mangione will be prosecuted by New York, Pennsylvania, and the federal government. And prominent Democrats like Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D–N.Y.) seem to think stricter gun control—something Kirk would have vociferously opposed—will stop it all.

No, the rot is deeper, and it's not just left-on-right. There was that right-wing crazy who shot and killed several Minnesota state lawmakers in June, for example. 

But there is also a disturbing strain emerging specifically on the left that makes light of political violence and seems to revel in bad things happening to the ideological enemies, like we're all playacting life, like deadly violence isn't real and concrete and something that permanently deprives children of their fathers, something that can't be taken back. 

Just two days before the shooting, the women's magazine Jezebel posted an article about paying "Etsy witches to curse Charlie Kirk." When Mangione killed Thompson, the famous and highly-paid journalist Taylor Lorenz—formerly an employee of The Washington Post and The New York Times—said on Piers Morgan's TV show that she felt "joy." ("Joy at a man's execution?!" balked Morgan.)

Whether Thompson or Trump or the Israeli embassy staffers or Kirk, whether "joy" or justification, this way madness lies. We don't want to relive the '60s, that decade that saw the killings of Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy, Medgar Evers and John F. Kennedy, Fred Hampton and Malcolm X (some of whom were justifiers of political violence to achieve their objectives). We don't want to relive the '70s, which saw just staggering amounts of political violence emanating from the left wing. 

It's not just that Charlie Kirk's kids will grow up without a father, though that's a tragedy. It's also that the thousands of young people in the audience at Utah Valley University will live with this horrible image: watching a man just a few years older than them get shot for professing his conservative beliefs, blood gushing out of his neck. And who, exactly, will want to speak freely in the aftermath, knowing that sort of violence is now on the menu?

31 years old, 2 kids https://t.co/pSRLWMZ32C pic.twitter.com/L1PYSvJo0l

— Mason (@webdevMason) September 10, 2025


Scenes from New York: Today's the 24th anniversary of 9/11, that horrible day in which terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into the Twin Towers, the Pentagon, and a third location that shall forever remain unknown as passengers summoned the courage to take over and crash the plane into a field in Pennsylvania instead, sparing the targets but sacrificing themselves in the process. I'm going to Mass at my church in Lower Manhattan today, where we honor the firefighters who died, and pray for their families (many of whom are in attendance). My son and I go every year and it's always very beautiful; Irish and Italian and a lot louder than usual, and I always look around at the men and women who are my age, many of whom lost their dads when they were young, and am just struck with appreciation for these firefighters' sacrifice. Bless them all.


QUICK HITS

  • "Selecting for liars is bad," argues Kelsey Piper over at The Argument. But the way our welfare system is designed incentivizes lying vs. telling the truth. So does the way our federal-government hiring works, and the way many cities' zoning codes work.
  • "Poland sought a consultation of NATO powers after shooting down drones that crossed into its territory during Russia's latest massive air strike on Ukraine, calling the incursion an 'act of aggression,'" reports Bloomberg. "North Atlantic Treaty Organization Secretary General Mark Rutte denounced 'Russia's reckless behavior' and confirmed that the alliance discussed the incident after Poland invoked Article 4 of the alliance treaty, which triggers consultations and can open a path to coordinated action among allies." ("Polish authorities registered 19 airspace violations, with a 'significant' number of drones originating from Belarusian territory.")
  • Tablet Editor in Chief Alana Newhouse takes to the pages of The Free Press to reconcile her belief in gene editing with her belief in God.
  • Yup:

this is the single most psychotic use of passive framing in a headline I've ever seen.

they weren't star-crossed lovers. he slit her throat on a fucking train, Jeff. https://t.co/fzwXjIT3K2 pic.twitter.com/KTOLGj7isP

— pagliacci the hated ???? (@Slatzism) September 9, 2025

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NEXT: Trump Calls His Drone Strike on an Alleged Drug Boat 'Self-Defense.' It Looks More Like Murder.

Liz Wolfe is an associate editor at Reason.

ViolenceCharlie KirkAssassinationConservatismPoliticsPolandReason Roundup
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  1. Chumby   2 months ago

    RIP Charlie Kirk

    1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

      RIP, Charlie Kirk.

      It is a very sad time for the US, for freedom and especially for free speech.

      1. Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)   2 months ago

        You’ll just have to get used to it.

        1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

          I'm afraid I will.

          Too soon to laugh, but that was a good one and why I always enjoy a DLAM jab.

          1. Dillinger   2 months ago

            done properly it is never too soon to laugh.

      2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        Yeah. Nobody believes you.

        But good impulse control not joining the rest of your allies yesterday.

        Shrike, sarc, and all your other allies tried the same thing prior to demeaning Charlie and attacking MAGA. So yeah. Nobody believes you actually care.

        1. Chumby   2 months ago

          Shrike is a pathological liar and pedophile that comes to one of the few places that hasn’t banned his accounts/turned him in to authorities to get his supply.

        2. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

          We can argue that at another time and place. Let's leave this 1st comment thread as a peaceful tribute to Charlie.

          1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

            Thanks to you democrats, there is in peace. If you want things to be peaceful, renounce the democrat party and all its evil works, here and now.

        3. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

          Sorry, but I'm going to disagree with you on this one. I think QB's statement here is entirely sincere.

          1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

            I dont. He has pushed much of the rhetoric that leads the left to these attacks, such as claims of immigration enforcement being "disappearing" people. Also his entire shtick with we have always had crime, so no big deal.

            Not once has he criticized democrats for their rhetoric. Even here I doubt he ever criticizes the actual acts here.

            Justified lawfare, j6 and other forms of political abuse against conservatives.

            So no, I dont buy it. In my view he is more concerned of the optics of how this makes his allies look.

            1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

              That's fine. I'm going to choose to take him at his word on this one.

              1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

                Thanks RR, I appreciate you saying so despite our frequent disagreements. You're a standup guy.

                1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

                  Great. Now will you renounce the democrat party?

                  1. Zeb   2 months ago

                    When did you stop beating your wife?

      3. Randy Sax   2 months ago

        We lost a master debater, he would master debate all over those college girls.

        1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

          I’m willing to help take up the fight.

      4. Jefferson Paul   2 months ago

        I agree. Well-said.

      5. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

        That, it is.

    2. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

      RIP.

    3. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

      Agreed.

      I would argue this is not a new era but continued. From antifa assaults, BLM murders, scalise, multiple assassination attempts etc. Liz is wrong it is a new era.

      This one solely because Charlie was an effective communicator. My daughter and her friends all watched his debates. She was angry yesterday.

      1. Social Justice is neither   2 months ago

        How old is that Welch Red Wedding Twitter post? Is he gleefully dancing around proclaiming "one down!!"

        1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

          I posted it below.

        2. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

          Him and Sammy fried are doing the buffalo bob “I’d fuck me” dance in front of the mirror with their tiny dicks tucked between their legs. Lol.

      2. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

        Yes. The left has been extremely violent for at least a decade now, it’s finally time end their movement. The democrat party is a terror organization and must be designated as such. And all the democrat propaganda organizations like NYT, WaPo, etc. must be shut down.

        They’re all guilty of multitudes of FEC violations. Enough so that RICO should apply to any of them.

    4. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

      RIP, Charlie Kirk.

  2. Fist of Etiquette   2 months ago

    They're making it very difficult to not be a conspiracy theorist.

    1. Chumby   2 months ago

      Don’t think it is a conspiracy as much as one political persuasion believes the speech of others is violence and their own violence is justified speech. The age of entitlement.

      1. Fist of Etiquette   2 months ago

        If we end up knowing as much about this shooter as the Las Vegas sniper, you'll know there was a decent about of conspiring going on here.

      2. Spiritus Mundi   2 months ago

        Maybe.....

        ATF and other law-enforcement located an older model imported Mauser .30-06 caliber bolt action rifle wrapped in a towel in a wooded area near the campus. The location of the firearm appears to match the suspects route of travel. The spent cartridge was still chambered in addition to three unspent rounds at the top fed magazine. All cartridges have engraved wording on them, expressing transgender and anti-fascist ideology.

        1. But SkyNet is a Private Company   2 months ago

          “Anti-Fascism” = violently killing those peaceful people smarter than you with which you disagree.
          A perfect summation

          1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

            "...“Anti-Fascism” = violently killing those peaceful people smarter than you with which you disagree..."

            The cunt Molly Godiva proves this with every post.

          2. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

            If it’s antifa, then they must all be rounded up as terrorists. Which should have happened years ago.

        2. Chumby   2 months ago

          The close-up video didn’t look like a hit from a 5.56x45 where I equated it to a CXP2/3 hunting cartridge impact. So if it were a .30-06 with a soft point, the results looked as such. But don’t know.

          The 48-hour rule in effect/fog of war.

        3. Quo Usque Tandem   2 months ago

          A ‘98 Mauser converted to 30/06 from 8mm; interesting as you don’t see those every day.

          1. Spiritus Mundi   2 months ago

            Probably a rebarrel. Interams sold lots of those in the 50s and 60s from surplus mauser actions as mark x models. There are 61 for sale on gunbroker at the moment.

        4. Longtobefree   2 months ago

          Unpossible.
          I have it on good authority, every democrat ever, that only small caliber, scary-looking, semi-automatic, black rifles with massive magazines are capable of killing.
          A bolt action rifle with a four round, non-detachable magazine cannot have done this evil deed.

      3. Juliana Frink   2 months ago

        The Ultimate Entitlement.

        1. Juliana Frink   2 months ago

          Hmmm... Let me rephrase that:

          "The Ultimate Entitlement (TM)"

          1. Chumby   2 months ago

            Watching the CSPAN feed from the HoR when Colorado retardus interruptus demanded to make a public ass of herself during the moment of silence for Kirk helps highlight this new age.

            1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

              TMZ had laughs and cheers in the background when the news he died dropped.

              https://x.com/realtimsharp/status/1965893002746036553

              They had to follow up claiming those employees were watching a car chase.

              1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

                Someone posted a video of the car chase. Didn’t see anything funny about it.

                1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

                  Check out the NYT obituary for Kirk. No austere scholar framing.

                  1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

                    It’s not like Charlie was a lifelong Islamist terrorist. So how could he be an austere scholar?

    2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

      Not sure if you noticed the trends yesterday, but this was all justified because they imagine what conservatives and trump would do. A lot of both sides with one side being pure imagination.

    3. Kungpowderfinger   2 months ago

      My administration will find each and every one of those who contributed to this atrocity and to other political violence, including the organizations that fund it and support it

      Talk is cheap, but find another president besides DJT that’ll call out the fuckers in an Oval Office speech.

    4. Sam Bankman-Fried   2 months ago

      I agree, Crooks was a bitter clinger MAGA Republican and Kash Patel still hasn’t told us anymore about his motive. Plus the George Floyd violence was instigated by a Trump supporting white supremacist orchestrating a false flag operation.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

        So what happened to your original account, Rev. Kirkland?

        1. Quo Usque Tandem   2 months ago

          Arty resurrected? That fits. Probably because it got to where he had been muted by everyone. Let's continue that tradition.

        2. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

          Does he have to pay for reason plus?

          1. Sam Bankman-Fried   2 months ago

            Nope.

            1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

              So why don’t you explain what happened to your original account, clinger?

      2. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

        You losers are just spazzing out as the realization sinks in that repeatedly releasing violent criminals (as long as they’re black!) until they finally murder a 90 lb. woman, climate doom, and fetishizing mentally ill chicks with dicks is not nearly as popular with most sane Americans as deporting illegal aliens, ending DEI in government, and at least trying to eliminate some of the parasitic bureaucracy. Hence, 8 more years of “Mr. Wrong” himself, JD, is becoming more and more likely.

        This is breaking you idiots even more than trump. And you deserve it, Sammy. Haha.

  3. Fist of Etiquette   2 months ago

    He valued the art of persuasion, of discourse, of changing a mind or letting your own be molded...

    Increasingly a one way street.

    1. Idaho-Bob   2 months ago
  4. Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)   2 months ago

    But there is also a disturbing strain emerging specifically on the left that makes light of political violence and seems to revel in bad things happening to the ideological enemies, like we're all playacting life, like deadly violence isn't real and concrete and something that permanently deprives children of their fathers, something that can't be taken back.

    Like making fun of murder victims by calling them “saint”.

    1. Idaho-Bob   2 months ago

      Like 1000's of dancing TikToks celebrating violence.

      Not just Kirk, but the Pharma CEO, Trump, the Ukrainian woman, etc. They will celebrate the same way with any of us getting intentionally harmed. Eric July said it perfectly. We need to stop taking the high ground. It is a losing strategy.

      1. Spiritus Mundi   2 months ago

        The more they show the evil they are the more they loose. MLK and Ghandi knew this. If you are christian, you believe Christ knew this too. For give them, for they know not what they do.

        1. Idaho-Bob   2 months ago

          What happened to MLK and Ghandi?

          1. Spiritus Mundi   2 months ago

            Their ideas prevailed. We are all dead men walking. The only thing that lives on is our legacy. MLK's is on the ropes these days unfortunately.

            1. tracerv   2 months ago

              Did MLKs & Gandis ideas prevail? I doubt that more every day.

              1. Quo Usque Tandem   2 months ago

                "Content of character over color of skin?" Just imagine what leftists rags would make of that today. Meritocracy, supremacist thinking, any number of isms.

                1. tracerv   2 months ago

                  MLK would be the Ultimate Uncle Tom nowadays.

                  1. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

                    “The black face of white supremacy”!

                    Change all those street signs to George Floyd boulevard! Haha.

      2. Marshal   2 months ago

        https://x.com/TheLucyShow1/status/1965932486736908620

        Left wingers who witnessed the murder cheered.

        1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

          That young lady saw something no young lady should ever have to see, a man getting shot in the neck and gushing blood from a carotid artery due to expressing his First Amendment rights on a stage. I agree with her, those celebrating are disgusting.

          That’s an image I’ll never get out of my head after I saw it on X.

      3. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        California named a fucking bill after Luigi. This isnt just small time random activists.

        Something like 60% of democrats support ideological murder.

        1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

          The democrat party is a terror organization. They are inextricably intertwined with antifa, BLM, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, the an Iranian regime, the ChiComs {who own many democrat legislators and our last president), and so many other terror groups.

      4. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

        Cleanse them.

    2. Mickey Rat   2 months ago

      It is not "emerging". It has been out in light for some time now. Certain people are just now noticing.

      1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

        Liz has been sheltered in NYC. She needs to escape that dump ASAP.

    3. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

      One of the most fucked up things about this, is seeing dozens and dozens of posts celebrating this assassination, and realizing that a majority of the non-anonymous posters are in either education or healthcare.

      1. Chumby   2 months ago

        Lesson of war: You can’t change human nature.

      2. Minadin   2 months ago

        https://notthebee.com/article/here-is-a-roundup-of-the-teachers-social-workers-firefighters-city-councilors-and-marines-who-are-celebrating-charlie-kirks-death

        1. Kungpowderfinger   2 months ago

          “If they thought Charlie Kirk was too extreme and deserved to die, imagine what they think of you”

  5. Fist of Etiquette   2 months ago

    Predictions: Will the new deplatforming consist of colleges claiming that security for conservative speakers is just too darn expensive?

    We've heard that tune before. Honestly, I'm surprised many of them allowed his events in the first place.

  6. Minadin   2 months ago

    There was that right-wing crazy who shot and killed several Minnesota state lawmakers in June, for example.

    There's very little evidence that guy was right-wing, and a substantial amount that he was left-wing. If you believe otherwise, please do attempt to prove it. Just because his victims were left-wing (ish) doesn't mean he's on the right.

    1. Chumby   2 months ago

      Yup. A soft boaf sidez is still a boaf sidez. Like when one Team R legislator supported Team D that somehow became bipartisan.

    2. Spiritus Mundi   2 months ago

      Her source article was NPR.....

      1. Minadin   2 months ago

        If the guy was verifiably right-wing, don't you think it would be covered a lot more in much more reliable sources than NPR? And still be in the news perhaps?

        1. HorseConch   2 months ago

          Without a doubt. That story disappeared unbelievably fast considering he was in custody within hours and they never let a politically advantageous story go to waste.

      2. awildseaking   2 months ago

        Did you actually read the source? It's an outdated article from June 2nd. We have much more information now.

        In case anyone is wondering why Vance Boelter was memoryholed, it's because he was not a sane person motivated by typical left/right politics. He is a religious fanatic. His reason for targeting politicians? They were pro-choice. The full list of targets was not made public, but reputable orgs like AP have reported that in addition to politicians, community leaders and abortion rights activists were also named.

        Is that political? Sure. Is it "right wing" violence? Only if you believe that abortion is a right/left issue. Most reasonable people recognize it isn't.

        1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

          The pro choice article was debunked. The crazy part was not.

          He prior worked with NGOs. He was appointed to boards by Waltz. He claimed Waltz told him to kill those running against him for senate.

          He has given public interviews. He did not due it for abortion reasons.

          1. awildseaking   2 months ago

            What do you mean debunked? I just checked recent articles from local Minnesota publications since the story was dropped at a national level.

            My understanding is that we still don't know, but there wasn't anything plainly obvious other than the abortion connection. AFAIK, none of the facts asserted have been debunked unless you:

            1. Believe the AP made up the contents of the list.
            2. Believe that Boelter is not a missionary and that the sermons he wrote are not his work.
            3. Believe his friends/associates are all lying about him being religious and reserved.

            I would check this out. I have not seen any of these facts debunked.

            https://minnesotareformer.com/2025/08/18/did-religion-motivate-assassination-of-minnesota-lawmaker/

            1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

              In one of his interviews he explicitly said his list was not about abortions. His list included people on both sides of the issue.

              1. awildseaking   2 months ago

                Ok, but he's insane and the full list is not publicly known. Why are we taking his word when there's an ongoing criminal trial? He plead not guilty. Doubt he would go on tape and say why he really did it. Plus, what he says doesn't debunk what he has physically done in this world.

                1. Gaear Grimsrud   2 months ago

                  Boelter is clearly delusional and is claiming that he had worked undercover for mostly unspecified government agencies. He was obviously involved with Democrats in MN and was appointed to a board by Tim Walz. He claimed that Walz asked him to assassinate Amy Klochubar because he wanted her senate seat and that other MN democrats were somehow involved. Yes he was at one point a evangelical minister but he also has a long history of crazy sketchy shit none of which includes association with right wing or pro life organizations. His roommates say he wasn't overtly political and he says abortion was not a motivation. He could be lying but the dude is batshit crazy so it's pretty difficult to judge either way. Bottom line, these were political assassinations because the victims were politicians. But there is no evidence that he was motivated by right wing beliefs. The dude is delusional and batshit crazy. Sorry but that's the only rational conclusion.

                  1. awildseaking   2 months ago

                    I agree completely. Sorry if I didn't come across that way. I do feel he shouldn't be lumped in with the rest of the political violence examples for that reason. I was just trying to provide as many facts as possible to prove that he wasn't a good example.

            2. Neutral not Neutered   2 months ago

              There's plenty of religious people on the left, this is not in question.

              He worked for Walz...

          2. Ron   2 months ago

            His list also include republicans the guy was literraly crazy like most shooters. Even the two people who attempted to kill Trump were deranged. the person who shot Kirk was well prepared and clearly out for political purposes

            1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

              Like I said yesterday, Trantifa's been openly stating on social media that they're going to be carrying out assassinations from here on out, which would clearly fall under the rubric of a confession of conspiracy to commit murder and domestic terrorism.

              If Patel isn't already telling the FBI and Mama Tulsi to find out who controls those accounts and to start bringing charges, he's completely impotent and needs to be replaced. He's already fucked up once by announcing that they supposedly caught the killer before letting him go, and I wouldn't be surprised if Trump is telling him that he's on thin ice.

              1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

                The other weird instance, which may or may not be coincidental, was the report of that private aircraft that took off from Provo about an hour after the shooting, illegally turned off its tracking device during the trip, and re-emerged at some bumfuck airstrip in Tuba City, Arizona. I've been through there, and it is about as remote as you could possibly imagine.

                So given that the rifle and bullets had a bunch of Trantifa shit written on them, if that flight is in any way connected to the shooting, now we're looking at the possibility of a classic false flag attack. One of Kirk's buddies said that Kirk had told him recently that he was getting pushback from people in Israel over his criticisms of the conflict, and was concerned there might be a backlash. Something like that flight would bear all the hallmarks of professional hit, and quick egress for transfer in an area that wasn't heavily monitored.

                But again, that's all speculation, like the theory that the reason Biden and Trump chose not to release the Epstein files isn't because THEY are in them, but because Epstein was acting as a Mossad agent or contact, and opening the files would really fuck up relations with Israel.

                1. HorseConch   2 months ago

                  That's a big leap that I'm not willing to discount. The whole Trantifa shit on the ammo doesn't make much sense for any reason, even if the assassin was. At a minimum, the person was prepared and had an exit plan. However much bigger it is than that, I hope we eventually find out.

              2. Gaear Grimsrud   2 months ago

                I don't think Kash said they had caught the killer. A person of interest was detained at the scene I think by local police but was determined to be uninvolved. Looks like they have video of the shooter at this point but we're only one day in so it might take a while.

    3. Fist of Etiquette   2 months ago

      There has to be a legit example on right-on-left political violence, though. We're a nation of 330 million, after all.

      1. Spiritus Mundi   2 months ago

        Abortion clinic bombings? Those haven't happened in years though.

        1. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   2 months ago

          More then 500 attacks on catholic churches since 2020.

          O wait you were looking for the other way

        2. Chumby   2 months ago

          Christians praying outside of abortion clinics!

          1. Wizzle Bizzle   2 months ago

            Nice. I wish it were hard to believe that this action is actually considered violence in the UK and all of it shitshow provinces around the globe. Proof that the left is a cancer in the entire western world, not just here.

        3. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

          Majority of attacks that happen against birthing centers or abortion centers are on birthing centers. More than 2 to 1. Prosecution for FACE is almost exclusively for anti abortion protests. Virtually all for quietly praying.

      2. Ajsloss   2 months ago

        Get a load of the bigot that never heard of tire tracks on a rainbow crosswalk.

        1. Spiritus Mundi   2 months ago

          Do Trump's mean tweets count?

      3. Bubba Jones   2 months ago

        Mostly, right wing terrorists seem to be incompetent. From a long list of attempted attacks and various conspiracies, here are some that actually did harm.

        Colorado Springs, November 19, 2022. Anderson Lee Aldrich was charged with 317 crimes, including five counts of first-degree murder, for a November 19, 2022 shooting spree against an LGBTQ+ nightclub.

        San Francisco, California, October 28, 2022. David DePape invaded the home of then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi in a self-described “suicide mission” to kidnap her and “break her kneecaps” to serve as an object lesson for other Democrats.

        Kalamazoo, Michigan, July 31, 2022. On the afternoon of July 31, a masked man dressed in camouflage used a combustible log and fuel to set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Kalamazoo.

        Buffalo, New York, May 14, 2022. In an elaborately planned attack, white supremacist Payton Gendron opened fire at a supermarket in Buffalo, New York, deliberately targeting Black people.

        Atlanta, Georgia, July 30, 2021. Larry Edward Foxworth, a self-described white supremacist, conducted an attempted shooting spree from a vehicle against two convenience stores in an Atlanta suburb. Both stores had customers and staff inside when attacked, but luckily no one was hit. After his arrest, Foxworth confessed that he shot at the stores in an attempt to kill Black people and Arab people. Foxworth subsequently pleaded guilty to federal hate crime charges and received a 20-year sentence.

        Winthrop, Massachusetts, June 26, 2021. White supremacist Nathan Allen stole a truck and crashed it into a residence in Winthrop, Massachusetts. As people in the neighborhood responded, Allen walked by several white people to shoot two people of color, a man and a woman. He shot one victim seven times, including four times in the head, and the other victim three times in the back, killing both. Responding police shot and killed Allen. Subsequent searches revealed that Allen possessed considerable white supremacist literature as well as journals in which recorded his racist and antisemitic beliefs, including the idea that white people were superior “apex predators.” He also wrote that “whites in the US will snap and kill all the shitskins."

        1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

          Almost none of those examples are for political purposes, and rely on ADL subscribing right wing views to the person.

          And like the other fucked up leftist retards you even tried to include the Pelosi attacker as right wing.

          Disgusting behavior from your side.

          You are trying to equate every bad act from racist groups to conservatives to justify shooting a Christian conservative. Go. Fuck. Yourself.

          Amazing watching you assholes justify this murder any way you can.

        2. Wizzle Bizzle   2 months ago

          I don't know if all of these are true, though I'm sure 90% of the commenters will refute them with or without evidence. What I do know is this in so close to being only a left-on-right problem that we can treat it as such.

          If you want an own the libs scenario, stop calling for counter-violence. Instead sick all of the intelligence agencies on the radical leftist groups in America, which are legion. Revoke their tax-exempt status, put them under surveillance, audit their funders, etc. It seemed to be quite effective at quashing right-wing violence the last 50 years, so who could argue with it?

        3. Minadin   2 months ago

          The only apparent attack on a political figure in all of your examples was the guy who hit Pelosi's husband with a hammer, and he's most definitely not motivated by right-wing politics.

        4. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

          And not one of those "examples" were right wing political violence.

          Colorado Springs, November 19, 2022. Anderson Lee Aldrich

          The guy who attacked the gay bar was also gay you stupid fuck. He was a former gay porn actor, FFS. How are you this fucking retarded?

          Also, from wikipedia: "Twice before the 2021 incident Aldrich had been reported to Colorado Police for "escalating homicidal behavior".[68] On June 17, 2021, Aldrich's grand-aunt contacted the FBI to report Aldrich was planning to kill Christians and government employees after Aldrich's grandfather had reported being threatened by Aldrich; however, the family did not press charges with local police."

          San Francisco, California, October 28, 2022. David DePape

          Explain how a rent boy attacking his john is "right-wing". Where's the politics there?

          Kalamazoo, Michigan, July 31, 2022. On the afternoon of July 31, a masked man dressed in camouflage used a combustible log and fuel to set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Kalamazoo.

          WTF is this doing in here? He committed arson. He didn't kill anyone, unlike the abattoir he lit up. You guys burn buildings all the time so pretty gutsy of you to equate it to murder.

          Are you that desperate that you would try to sneak an arson into a list of purported political assassinations?

          Buffalo, New York, May 14, 2022. In an elaborately planned attack, white supremacist Payton Gendron

          Not right wing. Racist. Just like Sarah Palin's Buttplug, the Democrats historically, Karl Marx and Che Guevara.

          Atlanta, Georgia, July 30, 2021. Larry Edward Foxworth, a self-described white supremacist,

          Not right wing. Racist. Just like Sarah Palin's Buttplug, the Democrats historically, Karl Marx and Che Guevara.

          Winthrop, Massachusetts, June 26, 2021. White supremacist Nathan Allen

          Not right wing. Racist. Just like Sarah Palin's Buttplug, the Democrats historically, Karl Marx and Che Guevara.

        5. Neutral not Neutered   2 months ago

          You do now know that the Biden/Democrat White Supremacy is the greatest threat to America statement were a projection of themselves?

          How can people be so stupid to believe racism is only on the right?

          The democrat party is the party of racism and Biden glorified Byrd...

      4. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

        Both sides have individuals who commit violence for political purposes. But they carry it out in different ways.

        The left-on-right political violence tends to be acts against specific individuals with a relatively clear agenda. Like Luigi, like Charlie Kirk's murderer.

        The right-on-left political violence, on the other hand, tends to be more diffuse, not directed against specific people, but against "society" in a broad sense. Such as, the El Paso Walmart shooter, the Pittsburgh synagogue shooter, the Buffalo supermarket shooter. Their targets were not specific people. They were directed against people or groups whom the shooter believed were enemies of the right in a broad sense, like "the Jews" or "the Blacks" or "the Hispanics".

        I think this is rooted by how each side tends to identify the villains on the other side. The left-wing shooters tend to think that the villains are specific people - Trump, Charlie Kirk, CEOs, etc. The right-wing shooters tend to think that the villains are broad classes of people out to undermine America as a whole - immigrants, gays, etc.

        1. Uilleam   2 months ago

          Not even remotely close to anything coherent.

        2. VinniUSMC   2 months ago

          Still fighting hard for dumbest comment of the year, I see.

          1. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

            Haha. Jeffy probably has the top 5 all wrapped up in September.

        3. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

          Go blow it out your fat ass, Jeffy.

        4. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

          The right-on-left political violence, on the other hand, tends to be more diffuse, not directed against specific people, but against "society" in a broad sense.

          If it's directed against society in the broad sense then how the hell is it right-on-left political violence?
          Do you know what the "political" in political violence means?

          "They were directed against people or groups whom the shooter believed were enemies of the right in a broad sense, like "the Jews" or "the Blacks" or "the Hispanics".

          You're simply describing racism and pretending it's somehow uniquely right.

          You know who thought black people were monkeys? Karl Marx.
          You know who said, "The Negro is indolent and lazy and spends his money on frivolities, whereas the European is forward-looking, organized and intelligent.”? Che Guevara.
          You know what other dictator hated Jews and had them rounded up and removed? Stalin.
          You know who operated the Klan as their own militia? Or filibustered the Civil Rights Act? The Democratic Party.
          You know which commentor here said "How many little lawn jockeys are in your yard? I bet it looks like a scene from a Tarzan movie out there."? Sarah Palin's Buttplug.

          Pretending that racism is somehow uniquely right-wing and isn't pervasive on the left is dishonest.

          1. Chumby   2 months ago

            Looks like jeff has been taking classes from charliehall.

          2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

            Jeff thinks democrats own society. It is theirs. That's the only way his comment makes sense.

            And funny how he claims attacks on jews are from the right.

          3. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

            Murdering people at walmart isn't an attack by the right against the left? Who knew?

            Oh, that's right. Everyone knows that, including Demon Jeffy. But he's busy lying defending an assassination by his tribe.

        5. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

          Hey Jeff, tell us again your thoughts on why some people avoid “mass transit or living in urban areas”. It’s all because of their own prejudices, of course, but maybe you can expand on that?

          Yikes. That comment didn’t age well. Like, not even a day.

          Asshole.

    4. Super Scary   2 months ago

      Yeah, big swing and miss with the "both sides!" attempt. I even clicked into the link Liz included and after reading through the whole article (NPR, lol) the only mention any sort of political affiliation is -
      "Officials also said they found "No Kings" flyers in the car, a reference to the anti-Trump protests that happened around the country Saturday."

    5. mad.casual   2 months ago

      I was watching a history professor's clip on the historical distinction between Hitler's Fascism and Stalin's Socialism and saw this [paraphrased] gem in the comments:

      "It's like seeing a tiger fight a lion and concluding that because the lion is a carnivore and they're fighting, the tiger must be an herbivore."

      To say nothing of the usual no-shit libertarian rhetoric about a private citizen of either/any stripe taking back his liberties from oppressive lawmakers of either/any stripe is categorically different than shooting someone in cold blood for saying things you don't like.

      1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

        "It's like seeing a tiger fight a lion and concluding that because the lion is a carnivore and they're fighting, the tiger must be an herbivore."

        And it's because fascism and communism, insofar as they could be put on the political spectrum, are only different as a matter of degree. The fight between Stalin and Hitler was ultimately over territory, not political ideology. Two sides supposedly on the complete opposite end of the spectrum don't strike a deal to invade Poland, split the spoils, and let each other have free rein in their own spheres of influence.

        Fascism became classed a "right-wing" belief system only after the fact, and that was mainly due to western marxists being pissed at Hitler for violating the pact. But it's also why they call any inkling of patriotic feeling and pride in US/western civilization as "fascist". Anything that doesn't advance global communism is fascist, and since they're on the left, fascism is on the right by default.

        1. Neutral not Neutered   2 months ago

          That and the most simple truth, the left needed a boogy man on the right. Marxists, socialists and communists needed to ensure there is an evil boogy man on the right. Just as they suggest someone who is religious is on the right which is just as absurd.

          1. Jefferson Paul   2 months ago

            And it has worked. That's why society at large doesn't look at someone wearing a Che shirt as similar to someone wearing a Hitler shirt. Both are evil, racist killers, but one is venerated and the other condemned, when both deserve condemnation from everyone.

            1. Stuck in California   2 months ago

              I've always found this fascinating, the che shirt thing. I have theories.

              Che wasn't nearly as competent, not as global.

              Che's biography was written by other Cuban communists to venerate him for propaganda purposes.

              Che's pop culture fame came in a time when "counterculture" was a thing and hating on "the man" very often morphed into venerating perceived enemies.

              After a while it was just the cool thing to do. To the point where you'd see a rock star like Carlos Santana wearing a Che shirt, ask him why, and he'd talk about him like he was a saint, completely ignoring the fact that Che despised rock music, and would sentence people to prison for listening to the wrong music. He'd also send homosexuals to hard labor in a prison camp on the Isle of Pines. Che shirt wearers would hand wave or say you were lying because they don't want to know.

  7. Fist of Etiquette   2 months ago

    Last year, an extremist tried to assassinate Trump...

    Extremist? We know even that much about Crooks? I'm predicting we'll know even less about the Kirk assassin(s), if they ever even really catch him.

    1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

      Weird use of the singular. It was 2.

    2. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

      "We know even that much about Crooks?"

      Here's a reply from a certified TDS-addled lying pile of slimy shit:
      Sam Bankman-Fried
      "...These people that can’t accept that Crooks was a Republican simply can’t accept reality and aren’t worthy of my replies."

    3. mad.casual   2 months ago

      Extremist? We know even that much about Crooks?

      [Norm McDonald "I don't think that was the worst part" voice]
      The more relevant information is the number of behaviorally-similar individuals.
      [/Norm McDonald voice]

  8. Spiritus Mundi   2 months ago

    Bluesky is reacting exactly like you would have expected

    Has have several* commentors here.

    *really they are just one pedo from dogdick

    1. Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)   2 months ago

      I had to give up on that whole thread. It was disturbing and disgusting.

      1. But SkyNet is a Private Company   2 months ago

        Lots of new gray boxes from now on

        1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

          Yeah. I usually only Grey for the most extreme. But done with all them. A lot of Grey's now.

          1. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   2 months ago

            Well the most extream have shown themselves

      2. Marshal   2 months ago

        Unpleasant truths are often the most important truths to know. You have to understand what the left is to figure out how to effectively oppose it.

      3. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

        Yeah, that thread last night had some of the most disgusting individuals in it. I had to stop lest I start saying shit here that’ll a) get me banned and b) interest the FBI.

        1. Chumby   2 months ago

          The akita chapter of the woodchipper union asked its members to stay away from making social media posts.

        2. Jefferson Paul   2 months ago

          It's pretty telling that most of those commenters rarely post, but as soon as Kirk was murdered, they all log in to celebrate and taunt the rest of us. Pretty fucking sick.

          Even the MN killer that they're saying was right wing (which I haven't seen sufficient evidence for that). None of us were celebrating those murders. There is a serious problem in this country now with people saying on polls that they think it's acceptable for politicians they don't like (and now Kirk who wasn't even a politician) to be assassinated. (And while right-wing respondents to these polls have increased in the number that think political violence is okay, the left are multiples higher that support it.) That kind of violence didn't have mainstream support until much more recently, and I fear it's going to increase.

          I REALLY hope I'm wrong, but I suspect there will be more assassinations or assassination attempts against more people on the right. We've already seen the massive swatting attempts on even minor right wing personalities. This is just escalating it to the next level. The level after this will be scary if it comes to pass.

          When speech is considered violence, and violence is considered speech, we are likely done as a country.

          1. Jefferson Paul   2 months ago

            I'm aware of the possibility or even likelihood that some/all of those commenters were socks of regular commenters here.

            1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

              I’m fairly certain some were Shrike socks (hell, one actually was Shrike).

          2. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

            I’m afraid you’re right, and we’ll see more assassinations and assassination attempts after this. They were successful here, and, unfortunately, that tends to make others bolder.

          3. Gaear Grimsrud   2 months ago

            We're becoming a third world country politically where lawfare and assassination are the path to power.

    2. Chumby   2 months ago

      Like with covid hysteria, reaction to this event helps expose people’s true nature.

      1. Spiritus Mundi   2 months ago

        On this of all days, remember there were people all over the world celebrating 9/11. And more so celebrating 10/7.

        1. Wizzle Bizzle   2 months ago

          That Venn diagram looks an awful lot like a circle.

          1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

            With a giant D inside.

            1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

              For the (D)amn (D)isgusting (D)icks.

    3. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   2 months ago

      By sharing child porn?

    4. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

      "*really they are just one pedo from dogdick"

      He posted an entire list of "right-wing" killers yesterday which turned out to be a list of incidents alleged to be racially motivated, and had nothing to do with politics.

      That's right. The guy who calls black people "coons", "shine boys" and "lawn Jockeys" right here in the comments is trying to claim that they were conservative because they were racist.

      Remember folks, you don't tell Shrike to "fuck off" enough. You may think that you do, but you don't.

      1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        Bubba just did the same above. They cant help but seek means to defend this assassination.

        1. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

          Bubba is Shrike, isn't he?

          1. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

            They're all scared to use their regular nicks today so they're all socking.

          2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

            Could be. Hasn't had the usual ticks shrike uses to give himself away.

            1. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

              Well, maybe it's KAR then.

              1. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

                I don’t think he’s either. (Surprise, surprise). Bubbas an idiot, but not as hateful as those two assholes.

                1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

                  Agree. Bubba is just a garden variety hateful leftist. There's millions of people like him.

  9. Fist of Etiquette   2 months ago

    But there is also a disturbing strain emerging specifically on the left that makes light of political violence and seems to revel in bad things happening to the ideological enemies...

    Once the right decides to join in in earnest (and they're getting pushed pretty hard to do just that) it's going to get a whole lot uglier.

    1. Eeyore   2 months ago

      Once both sides are fully committed to violence it can go on forever.

      1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        Bulwark and others are demanding conservatives retreat back to their timid and never fight back ways. Think we are in the mutually assured destruction phase.

        1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

          Fuck the Bulwark.

      2. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

        It’ll go on until one side is exhausted.

    2. Randy Sax   2 months ago

      That's what I'm afraid of. How many times did AOC die on J6? How many more times will she die now?

      1. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   2 months ago

        Hopefully just 1 more

    3. Zeb   2 months ago

      Yeah, once people who just want to be left alone to live their lives are convinced that violence is inevitable, things change a lot. We don't want to see what that looks like. The right is in general less willing to engage in political violence, but they are much better prepared for it.

      1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        This is why the left has spent a decade criminalizing self defense like with Daniel Penny.

        1. Chumby   2 months ago

          Bernard Goetz was the pilot program though I believe much of the press was sympathetic at that time.

          1. Neutral not Neutered   2 months ago

            They played the game with Rittenhouse until they couldn't as well.

            1. Chumby   2 months ago

              Jorge Zimmerman as well. Recall one of the MSM outlets chopping up the 911 call.

            2. tracerv   2 months ago

              So lucky it was on video.

          2. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

            Yes, Bernie Goetz came to my mind as well after the charlotte murder.

      2. Minadin   2 months ago

        'but they are much better prepared for it'

        I have several liberal friends who think that 100 rounds is a lot of ammunition.

        1. Quo Usque Tandem   2 months ago

          "100 rounds is a lot of ammunition."

          For one magazine, maybe.

  10. Idaho-Bob   2 months ago

    We seem to be entering an era of heightened political violence. It is profoundly, disturbingly sad. And it may have consequences we cannot yet know.

    Not "may have consequences"; there will be consequences. The left thinks they can just murder conservatives without consequences. The media gaslights everyone into believing the killers are conservatives.

    The shit is about to change.

    1. Chupacabra   2 months ago

      I really doubt that. In a tit for tat, the Democrats will always have an advantage because they have a large pool of mentally ill people who will sacrifice their lives/freedom to kill heretics.

      It's not unlike Islam and suicide bombers.

      1. Ajsloss   2 months ago

        ^-this

      2. Wizzle Bizzle   2 months ago

        The left does have an army of brainwashed kooks, but they are mostly girls with He-Man bangs and men(?) who couldn't impregnate a woman with George Foreman's dick.

        The right (or at least anti-left) has loads of self-radicalized kooks who have been arming for a Russian invasion for years. If the floodgates do break, the damage would likely be 30-1 for every reaction against the left. Unless, of course, the government puts its thumb on the scale. But what are the chances of that?

        For the record, I'm not in favor of a violent reaction to the left's utter evil. Their ideas have been disproved and their ugliness is on full display. Let them die of atrophy, not martyrism.

        1. Kungpowderfinger   2 months ago

          Uh, it’s dangerous to forget how close the USSR and their friends in western establishments came to burning the whole shit house down.

          The time to really start worrying is when the left sheds their woke mask and starts distancing themselves from the traditional cast of useful idiots. They’re a stupid lot of evil fucks, but eventually they’re going to figure it out and get serious.

          That’s when it gets ugly, do or die once more for the US, and we’ll be lucky if the war is cold again.

      3. Marshal   2 months ago

        They also have institutions willing to support political violence.

        The classic morality question regarding murder in American culture is to ask if you could go back in time to kill Hitler would you? Most people say yes.

        So what do you think they're doing when they call their enemies Hitler / Nazis / fascists? They're leading their most extreme adherents to that same conclusion.

        1. Chumby   2 months ago

          I would have travelled further back in time and stopped Zimmermann from sending that telegraph. Or stopped Princip from firing those two shots.

          1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

            How about just go back and bitchslap Eve?

            1. Chumby   2 months ago

              They should have slain the serpent in the garden.

        2. Juliana Frink   2 months ago

          "So what do you think they're doing when they call their enemies Hitler / Nazis / fascists? They're leading their most extreme adherents to that same conclusion."

          This is why we need an honest press. It surely illustrates that we have nothing LIKE an honest press, because if we did we would see more of this kind of insight. Instead they push the opposite.

          They haven't figured out that this only sharpens our instincts.

          1. Ersatz   2 months ago

            I would never want people not to be able to depants themselves in public on msnbc or cnn , what with their hyperbolic nazi accusations etc. but it MUST elicit pushback from supposed journalist interviewers. So far the record of these said journ-os is to amplify the gaslighting. If you want to even start correcting for the evil of the lefts defacto ownership of all media this must be a starting point.

            If it isnt - then the institutions arent interested in course correction they just want to have enough peace to maintain power - which is usually achieved by Unilateral disarmament by conservatives.

            1. Marshal   2 months ago

              it MUST elicit pushback from supposed journalist interviewers.

              This omits it's often the "journalists" making the accusations.

        3. Neutral not Neutered   2 months ago

          Sadly you are spot on.

    2. Mickey Rat   2 months ago

      How many years have the Left been saying they can "punch Nazis", with them being judge, jury and executioner defining a rather expansive meaning of "Nazi"?

      1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        And how many times have activist judges not only dismissed cases when they do, but often pay them through civil suits for even being arrested.

      2. Jefferson Paul   2 months ago

        They didn't seem to care about "due process" when they were saying it's good to "punch Nazis."

  11. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   2 months ago

    Morning poll, do leftists deserve to live
    1 for no
    2 for hell no

    1. Spiritus Mundi   2 months ago

      3. Of course, win with ideas

      1. Social Justice is neither   2 months ago

        Ask Charlie Kirk how that goes.

        1. Zeb   2 months ago

          He would have done less good and probably still be dead if he'd started killing motherfuckers instead of trying to win with ideas. This is disgusting and tragic, but it can get a lot worse.

        2. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

          If Charlie Kirk had done as suggested he would have just been another Democratic Party talking point rather than their scourge.

        3. Moonrocks   2 months ago

          He was murdered for being effective at winning with ideas. The glee on the left over his murder comes from the damage he was causing their political agenda solely from spreading his ideas on "their" turf.

      2. mad.casual   2 months ago

        You mean like the idea of making the other poor bastard die for his, right?

        I agree about the lesser effectiveness about wanton slaughter. I disagree about the effectiveness of ideas or morality that carries no risk or avoids it at all costs.

  12. Fist of Etiquette   2 months ago

    Just two days before the shooting, the women's magazine Jezebel-

    Stop right there.

    1. Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)   2 months ago

      What is a woman?

      1. Wizzle Bizzle   2 months ago

        What is a magazine?

        1. Zeb   2 months ago

          Sort of like a clip, right? Or is it the thing that goes up?

          1. Minadin   2 months ago

            How many high-powered fully semiautomatic clips does the magazine hold?

            1. Quo Usque Tandem   2 months ago

              Sounds like a direct quote from any leftist publication.

      2. Neutral not Neutered   2 months ago

        (W)ith (O)ut man

        Woman = man with no penis.

  13. Fist of Etiquette   2 months ago

    I'm going to Mass at my church in Lower Manhattan today, where we honor the firefighters who died, and pray for their families (many of whom are in attendance).

    The more distance from the event the less we contemplate the lessons we should have learned from that day.

    1. Spiritus Mundi   2 months ago

      NYC is soon to have an Islamist mayor. No lessons have been learned.

      1. Fist of Etiquette   2 months ago

        To be fair his (mostly) unabashed socialism spells more a lesson New Yorkers seem to have yet to learn.

        1. Marshal   2 months ago

          Including fair Liz.

          I'm a little shocked she moved but not out of NYC. You seem to recognize the shitstorm coming. You're moving already and thus incurring the life upheaval anyway. But you stay for the shitstorm?

          Bizarre.

          1. Fist of Etiquette   2 months ago

            NYC has a lot of appeal, even to me who hates everything about its politics and the mindset that votes it in. Maybe it can be fixed.

          2. Gaear Grimsrud   2 months ago

            I think Liz was just chasing the wave. Brooklyn is a beach town doncha know.

      2. Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)   2 months ago

        Sad but true.

      3. Kungpowderfinger   2 months ago

        Shit, less than 10 years later the USA put one in the White House.

        1. Spiritus Mundi   2 months ago

          Obama was more of a queers for palestine islamist than allhu akbar kind.

  14. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

    Now would be a good time to throw a big cocktail party in New York or Washington, and invite every single conservative writer you know.

    https://x.com/mattwelch/status/1102654202545913857?s=12

    1. But SkyNet is a Private Company   2 months ago

      A tweet in response to Mueller Report/ Impeachment disinfo.
      What a disgusting useless pile of Establishment crap Welch is

    2. Chumby   2 months ago

      Commenters could start flooding KMW’s inbox and demand that Welch be let go for him advocating for political violence in the age of political violence against the right.

      1. Quo Usque Tandem   2 months ago

        Matthew Dowd just got fired for less.

        1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

          That fucker got his firing the hard way. He earned it. May such happen to more of these fucking ghouls.

          1. Chumby   2 months ago

            Do we push KMW to dump Welch?

            1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

              Unequivocally, fuck yes.

              1. Chumby   2 months ago

                kmw@reason.com

                Include the post and call for a stance against political violence.

                https://x.com/mattwelch/status/1102654202545913857?s=12

                1. VinniUSMC   2 months ago

                  They're having him talk about Charlie later. I think KMW doesn't care at all.

                  1. tracerv   2 months ago

                    Yep. It's a rage bait situation for clicks. Got to be.

                  2. Chumby   2 months ago

                    Not sure she has been posed with the concept that she is employing someone that publicly advocated for the deaths of people having a different political perspective.

                    1. VinniUSMC   2 months ago

                      There's no way KMW is not fully aware of that tweet. It's 7 years old.

                    2. Chumby   2 months ago

                      Do you monitor all the social media posts by your staff? I don’t.

                    3. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

                      That tweet has been reposted in the comment sections multiple times, if KMW ever bothered to read the comments.

    3. Marshal   2 months ago

      Murdering your political enemies is fun!

  15. Open Borders Libertarian (formerly Sandra)   2 months ago

    A dark day

    No, it’s not. He was a grifting, low class douche. Ask Orwell how he felt about killing fascists.

    1. Mickey Rat   2 months ago

      Your definition of "fascist" shows that you are a stupid and evil person.

      1. Chumby   2 months ago

        He thought Orwell’s “newspeak” were instructions.

      2. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   2 months ago

        The left is full of retards that don't know fascism is directly from marxism

        1. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

          Reminder that this is not Sandra, folks.
          It's either Shrike, KAR or Sarcasmic who have stolen her nick so that they can celebrate the murder of Kirk without having it backfire on them later.

          Remember to never stop telling those creepy old monsters to go fuck themselves.

          1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

            I would agree. This isn’t Sandra. It’s not her style.

          2. Fats of Fury   2 months ago

            My money is on Buttplug, Sandra was always rubbing his face in his own bullshit.

            1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

              I think I’ve deduced Sam Bankman-Fried is our old fiend, Rev. Kirkland. Same tics about bitter clingers.

              1. Jefferson Paul   2 months ago

                I saw that too. But it was such an obvious tell for Rev. Kirkland, that I'm suspecting that it could still be Bushpig2 using that term intentionally to throw suspicion off of himself.

            2. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

              Nope. I’m usually skeptical of sock accusations, but that asshole is KAR all the way.

          3. Chumby   2 months ago

            Shrikarsmic

        2. charliehall   2 months ago

          And Trump is now promoting policies that resemble both Fascism and Marxism. He even has his blackshirts (ICE). And he now has a controlling ownership interest in multiple major businesses, with more to come.

          They will come for you eventually.

          1. Chumby   2 months ago

            Parody

          2. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   2 months ago

            The nazis built walls to keep people in

          3. VinniUSMC   2 months ago

            Have you ever not been retarded?

            1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

              I think we know the answer to that. Charliehall here has always been a full retard.

          4. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

            Shut the fuck up, Donnie.

            God, you’re boring.

      3. Juliana Frink   2 months ago

        Marxism/socialism and fascism are two faces of the same dull coin; the differences between them don't amount to a hill of beans. One awards government (elites) control of everything, the other awards control to government (elites) which shares some control with elite private individuals. With Globalism, elite private individuals enjoy a larger share of control and thus exert pressure on governments (elites), but all of it leads to tyranny. Note the two common words associated with all of the above are 1) elites and 2) control.

        There you have it, Control Freaks 101.

        Libertarians oppose Control Freaks. It's really that simple.

        1. charliehall   2 months ago

          The difference between Fascism and Marxism is that Fascism buys off the well to do; Marxism sends the to the gulag or shoots them. They are both totalitarian and in fact it was Mussolini who invented the term. Trump is Fascist.

          1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

            that Fascism buys off the well to do

            Marxism's been led by the well-to-do since Lenin. Every single rad-left revolutionary movement since the French Revolution has mostly been directed by the radical bourgeoisie, and in the instances they actually manage to get the working classes agitated enough to march, it inevitably peters out because the working classes are concerned about reasonable pay and working conditions, not establishing the communist utopia. The result is that these activist organizers migrate from org to org because nothing ever sticks beyond the next labor agreement.

          2. VinniUSMC   2 months ago

            The difference between charliehall and bull shit, is that bull shit is actually useful sometimes.

          3. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

            Charliehall is the dumbest motherfucker alive.

            1. DesigNate   2 months ago

              Shrike has a sad.

        2. Juliana Frink   2 months ago

          Looks like someone panicked and lit up the Batshit Signal (TM) and QUICKLY to the rescue is that Fiend, the pedant, Charlie-Son-Of-Gus to try to shit up the thread with his signature, unadulterated horseshit. He is a veritable walking Wikipedia (that was meant as an insult, of course).

          Nothing new under the sun. He believes his bleatings have some power that they don't. We see right through him. Pathetic.

    2. Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)   2 months ago

      Fail

    3. Randy Sax   2 months ago

      Do you really want political violence to escalate? Think about if for five minutes before you post next time.

      1. Juliana Frink   2 months ago

        Yes.

        I would add, "Think Before You Bleat (TM)."

        1. Juliana Frink   2 months ago

          To clarify:

          Yes, think about it...

          No, I do NOT want political violence to escalate.

          1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

            Nor do I. It’s a place I’ve never wanted to go, yet, I’ve a very bad feeling it’s a place we’re going to.

      2. Wizzle Bizzle   2 months ago

        That would be a good lesson for most of the comment section. You can't state (correctly) that the left has been cheering on violence against the right and thus contributed to the actual violence against the right in recent years, and then out of the other side of your mouth plead for reactionary violence against the left. By your own reasoning, you will be culpable for any violence that occurs.

        I'm not a lefty, so I don't think words = violence. And I do realize almost all of this is people blowing off some anger in a healthy way, which lefties seem to be incapable of doing. But it's pretty ugly stuff, and I'm not sure you really want to be the mirror image of Jezebel and Jacobin.

        1. Idaho-Bob   2 months ago

          So, we just sit back and be attacked and murdered? We are on the precipice of legitimate self-defense, not wanton violence.

          Leftists protesting in a street, blocking traffic and your wife/kid/parent is in the car in medical distress. Do you run them down or say "Oh well, I'm not committing violence today."

          We already know begging them to move doesn't work.

          I do not see a NAP violation with either scenario.

          1. tracerv   2 months ago

            +1

          2. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

            True. The NAP has been violated repeatedly by the left, the Democrats without a response by anyone else as we don’t want to violate the NAP.

            Enough of this shit. Once the NAP has been violated by one side, all bets should be off. Why should we play nice with those who’ve already violated the NAP?

            1. Neutral not Neutered   2 months ago

              Because we are pissed doesn't mean we become murderers. We talk them through like Charlie did.

              1. Gaear Grimsrud   2 months ago

                Well of course that strategy didn't end well for Charlie. Not that I'm advocating for the murder of anyone, but the rules are changing whether we like it or not.

                1. Wizzle Bizzle   2 months ago

                  You aren't. Too many here are.

        2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

          I agree with you. Advocating for political violence is as anti-libertarian as it gets. This only leads to rule by sheer force.

          1. Idaho-Bob   2 months ago

            Submitting to political violence is what you are suggesting, because it's your side committing the violence.

            You are not against political violence; you oppose retribution.

            1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

              Notice he compares beating up an asshole who shows up to a vigil and screams “fuck that guy!” to the people mourning a murder victim to someone being assassinated on a debate stage.

              Why? To minimize an assassination by his tribe.

              1. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

                +1

              2. Chumby   2 months ago

                As usual, jeff plays the role as the heavy.

              3. Marshal   2 months ago

                Why? To minimize an assassination by his tribe.

                Right. Every comment is to attack the right to protect the left. But sure, he's just some disinterested centrist and it just happened to work out this way in roughly 250,000 straight comments. Surely if you've ever flipped a coin as a probability experiment you've noticed this outcome pops up routinely.

          2. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

            Fuck you, Jeff.

            Why do you think some people don’t use mass transit?

            Asshole.

      3. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   2 months ago

        It's already escalated, and only in one direction. Putting down the Marxists like the animals they are will stop it

        1. Zeb   2 months ago

          Fuck off with that shit. Opening the doors to that level of violence against human beings for their (often ridiculous and awful) beliefs is not a path that leads to good things.

          1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

            Pretty sure he is angry at their actions. From yesterday.

            1. Zeb   2 months ago

              He's been promoting killing people for their political beliefs long before yesterday.

              1. Wizzle Bizzle   2 months ago

                Indeed. This kind of shit is the problem, not the solution.

              2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

                Usually it is for them to kill themselves. Not others killing them.

          2. tracerv   2 months ago

            The doors have been kicked opened yesterday. What the fuck do you think is going on here?

          3. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

            And yet, that door was kicked down by the left yesterday afternoon. Once the NAP is violated by one side, should the other still try to adhere to it?

            1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

              This os why the bleeding of the left into the LP has been so dangerous. Theyve convinced a large segment that the NAP means pacifist, convincing them to never respond.

              We see it here with political violence.

              We see it in the false free market cries of never responding to foreign actors.

              We see it in cries of culture war for responding.

              The left has done a good job of pacifying libertarians.

              1. tracerv   2 months ago

                After this week, I'm going to start selling "Nardz was right!" t-shirts.

                1. rbike   2 months ago

                  How much$

                  1. tracerv   2 months ago

                    $1.05!

                    1. Gaear Grimsrud   2 months ago

                      Freedom isn't free.

                    2. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

                      No, there’s a hefty fuckin’ fee.

            2. Chumby   2 months ago

              That is your decision to make. If you stop following the NAP, go on a campaign against the others and are victorious, when you are standing over the bodies of your former adversaries would you be recognizable to the person you were two days ago?

              1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

                That’s a fair question as well as that type of change is not necessarily for the better.

                I don’t favor going on any attack. I do favor self defense that ends the threat.

                1. Randy Sax   2 months ago

                  As long as the defense is actual defense, not a preemptive "defensive" strike.

                  1. Idaho-Bob   2 months ago

                    So wait to be assaulted prior to reacting? That's how you end up battered or dead.

                    This goes beyond political bullshit; this is everyday life. I'm not taking a bullet for some imaginary high ground.

                    1. Randy Sax   2 months ago

                      Let me expand on what I mean;

                      Actual defense: Someone is coming at you, shoot him.

                      Preemptive strike: Shoot some guy because you think he *might* come at you.

              2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

                Dame question asked of El Slavador for coralling up their gangs. Think that turned out just fine.

            3. Zeb   2 months ago

              The NAP is a guide for individual behavior, not interactions between broad political groupings. Claiming that this means it's OK to murder Marxists is not a reasonable application of the NAP. War is what happens when the NAP goes out the window.

              1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

                Question zeb, though you may not agree with the premise.

                If youre in war, do you have to wait for the enemy to fire at you instead of the guy standing next to you?

                Now you may not agree this is a cultural war, probably where we differ. But given all the violence on the left, at what point is it appropriate to respond?

                How many does antifa have to kill before we can arrest and go after antifa in general?

                1. Randy Sax   2 months ago

                  I'm not zeb, but I'll answer anyway.

                  Now you may not agree this is a cultural war, probably where we differ.

                  I think we can agree that a culture war, and a war between or within nations on a physical battlefield with uniformed troops and tanks and artillery etc. are two verry different things.

                  But given all the violence on the left, at what point is it appropriate to respond?

                  At what point? As soon as possible. To what degree is the real question. Step one. anyone who actually commits violence, bury him under the jail. Step two is the difficult one. A "call to violence" is interpreted many different ways by different people. It's how the British guy making a joke about punching tranny balls went to court. I know there is a legal definition, but it still isn't black and white. It has to be refined more before you can make action against and antifa heads.

                  1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

                    Most wars are fought outside of battlefields now.

                    Ive watched the only good after who you see doing crimes in Mexico and watched a country decline into the shithole it is now, with cartels controlling government.

                    Ive also seen El Salvador get fed up with the shit and got after the gangs. And the country has become great.

                  2. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

                    "Step one. anyone who actually commits violence, bury him under the jail."

                    We've already lost that battle.

                2. Zeb   2 months ago

                  If youre in war, do you have to wait for the enemy to fire at you instead of the guy standing next to you?

                  No, of course not. That was my whole point about war being when the NAP goes out the window.
                  I think there is a metaphorical culture war going on. But literal war is a whole different animal. We're getting uncomfortably close to that, but I don't think we're there yet and hope it can be avoided.

                  1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

                    Most war is fought with asymmetric warfare these days. When the left is now assassination (3 times in a year they have or tried), we are in a war.

                    So how many incidents have to happen?

                    1. Chumby   2 months ago

                      Then what are the tactics in response?

    4. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

      You are a slimy pile of TDS-addled lying lefty SHIT.
      Fuck off and die, asswipe.

  16. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

    Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy, Medgar Evers and John F. Kennedy, Fred Hampton and Malcolm X

    Dorothy Kilgallen and Marilyn Monroe should always be included on that list. Theirs were political assassinations also.

    1. charliehall   2 months ago

      A commenter below complained that the Left didn't care about objective truth. You are an example of that on the Right. Kilgallen and Monroe both died from drug overdoses.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

        Cite?

  17. Open Borders Libertarian (formerly Sandra)   2 months ago

    I’m going to pull a page from your playbook.

    Charlie Kirk shoved his ideology down the Left’s throat. There’s only so much advocacy for police states, misogyny and racism that the Left could take. What did you expect? Eventually someone was going to react

    That’s pretty much what I heard when Anders Breivik killed 70 kids while they went camping from the likes of you guys. That guys killed a bunch of kids. This modern day Dillinger (who hasn’t been caught yet) took out a fascist douche. Big difference. Take your piety and empathy elsewhere. CK wouldn’t want that because to him those things were the domain of weak, faggy cucks.

    Which is why I’m glad he’s dead.

    1. Chumby   2 months ago

      ^ Example regarding the Age of Entitlement.

    2. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   2 months ago

      Kill yourself

    3. Juliana Frink   2 months ago

      Keep bleating, loser. It amuses us that you think you gain by shitting up the thread on behalf of your handlers - the real fascists. Buffoon! We fart in your general direction.

    4. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

      That’s pretty much what I heard when Anders Breivik killed 70 kids while they went camping from the likes of you guys.

      So you went thru the archives back to 2011 to find this?

      Was this from before or after you "lost the password" to your account?

      1. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

        Anders Breivik was a Nazi corporatist who held beliefs indistinguishable from today's Democrats. Also, note that NotSandra has to go all the way to Norway a decade and a half ago to find his "right-wing" to find something he can pretend is somehow analogous.

    5. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

      You are a slimy pile of TDS-addled lying lefty SHIT.
      Fuck off and die, shitstain.

    6. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

      This is not Sandra, folks. Even in her biggest rages she did not sound like this.

      It's either Shrike, KAR or Sarcasmic who have stolen her nick so that they can celebrate the murder of Kirk without having it backfire on them later.

      They're so fucking gross.

      1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

        Agreed, but whoever it is, it is a slimy pile of TDS-addled lying lefty SHIT who should fuck off and die.

      2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        It's KAR. Came premuted and one of KARs socks is missing on the mute list.

      3. Chumby   2 months ago

        It is more of KAR’s MO since he danced on a grave before and openly advocated for violence against political opponents but shrike went orgasmic yesterday seeing his opportunity to get copious supply and given his pathology, that’s in play too. Sarcles is the dark horse in that race.

        1. Dillinger   2 months ago

          OBL was Open Borders Liberaltarian ...

          1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

            KAR isnt the brightest.

            1. Chumby   2 months ago

              He is also boring

      4. mad.casual   2 months ago

        This is not Sandra, folks.

        +1

        I have/can/will shame Sandra for her comments and ideas to the point where, IRL, I probably deserve to be punched or slapped in the face. Suffice to say we don't agree. That said, her OBL "I'm just restating Reason contributors' popular opinions." shtick was solid and she's no ghoul or insane noise generator. I don't have her muted, but this post was muted already when I loaded the page.

      5. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

        Pretty sure it’s kar.

    7. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

      Charlie Kirk shoved his ideology down the Left’s throat.

      The hilarious part is that he didn't even do that. He just went to college campuses to debate college students. But to leftists, anyone who dares to not follow their dumb political theology is "shoving their ideology down the Left's throat."

      1. Open Borders Libertarian (formerly Sandra)   2 months ago

        You FA and FO, amirite? That’s what you guys have been saying here for years when some Black
        Man gets shot by a cop. Spare me your dumb fake piety. You’ve been itching for political violence for years, but the moment the bullets start coming your way you go all kumbaya. Get shot in the neck, fascist.

        When are we meeting?

        1. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

          what you guys have been saying here for years when some Black
          Man gets shot by a cop.

          Cite?

          Also, appreciate your complying with the newspeak style guide by capitalizing "Black Man"

        2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

          You FA and FO, amirite? That’s what you guys have been saying here for years when some Black Man gets shot by a cop. Spare me your dumb fake piety. You’ve been itching for political violence for years, but the moment the bullets start coming your way you go all kumbaya. Get shot in the neck, fascist.

          Yes, someone sitting on a college campus minding is own business is completely the same thing as a violent criminal getting shot when he goes after the cops.

          And who's going all kumbaya? Your side made it clear a while ago that you think violence is acceptable for you. You're the one who said you were going to stab me in the temple for disagreeing with you, after all. So spare me your own circular reasoning, faggot.

          And I gave you the address, remember? Feel free to show up anytime.

        3. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

          So what’s your take on it happening in a Mormon area, KAR?

          1. Idaho-Bob   2 months ago

            The gathering in Boise last night to honor Kirk, was disrupted by some dude riding a scooter, wearing a rainbow backpack, and yelling "FUCK CHARLIE KIRK!!"

            The crowd beat his ass. Badly.

            This is the way.

            1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

              So, this would be an act of political violence against someone because he said something you disagree with. Right?

              1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

                Begone demon.

              2. Idaho-Bob   2 months ago

                No this is retribution for being an asshole in a crowd of mourners.
                This goes beyond politics.

                You defended the religious kooks who protested veteran funerals, while I was part of the Patriot Guard Riders.

                We are not the same.

                1. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

                  Yeah. They didn't punch him for being a Democrat. They punched him for being an asshole.
                  Having the magic (D) by your name doesn't mean that every time you're an asshole, any retribution is an attack for your political stance.

              3. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

                Go blow your boaf sidez shit out of your ass, asshole.

              4. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

                So some progressive was yelling "FUCK CHARLIE KIRK!!" at a memorial service for Charlie Kirk and gets his ass kicked.

                Chemjeff - "So, this would be an act of political violence against someone because he said something you disagree with. Right?"

                I'm saving this one for posterity, Jeffy. Nothing but the hottest of hot takes today. And the answer is no.

                For an act to count as political violence it has to be directed at someone because of their political identity, affiliation, or expression, and the attacker has to be targeting the guy for political reasons, and not because he was shouting "Fuck the dead guy" at a memorial.

                They did not beat up the guy because of his politics. They beat him up because he was shouting "Fuck Charlie Kirk" during a memorial for him. If the screamer had been GOPe or a member of the American Rhinoceros Party he would have been beaten up for yelling that. The motive was not political.

              5. DesigNate   2 months ago

                Wow.

  18. Marshal   2 months ago

    He is] constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate speech, aimed at certain groups," said Matthew Dowd on MSNBC. "I always go back to, hateful thoughts lead to hateful words, which often then to hateful actions.

    Dowd characterized this as "divisive" which I hate. First because it's a weasel word which means it's non-specifically derogatory so the user does not have to defend the position. Further why does "divisive" supposedly matter? It just means disagreement. When Bush was president the left claimed "dissent was the highest form of patriotism" valorizing their own divisiveness. Lastly the term is never used to describe truly vile positions like describing their enemies as fascist and/or Nazis.

    Putting these failures together we can conclude "divisive" is code for "opposes the left" in circumstances where the truth does not sufficiently demonize the subject which the speaker needs to imply but cannot defend. It's a disgusting slander.

    For example calling your enemies fascist isn't bad because it's "divisive", it's bad because the claim is wrong. But if you cannot claim something is wrong because the claim is a value judgement which effectively admits you're a leftist propagandizing your opinion rather than a journalist discussing reality you switch to "divisive" to hide this.

    1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

      "...First because it's a weasel word which means it's non-specifically derogatory so the user does not have to defend the position..."

      Or it simply means "he thinks I'm wrong", and in Kirk's case, you probably were and he was probably right.

    2. Gaear Grimsrud   2 months ago

      Strongly agree with you about the term divisive. It's the perfect example of the media perverting the language and getting away with it for decades. At it's core it has come to mean anyone who challenges the writer's preferred narrative. Period. When there are two sides to an argument the side disfavored by the journalist is deemed divisive leaving the other side as the conventional wisdom that all Right Thinking People must adhere to. This has been newspeak for at least 35 years in my personal experience and things are getting worse with every passing day. I speak English motherfuckers. I want my language back.

  19. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 months ago

    'But there is also a disturbing strain emerging specifically on the left that makes light of political violence'

    Could this be the same left that has declared the Enlightenment to be nothing but oppression, that objective truth is delusional, that all life is power struggle, and therefore any action to defeat "evil" is justified, that fundamental and universal principles do not apply (certainly to them), and double standards are what they say they are. That includes the claim that their violence is speech and our speech is violence.

    1. charliehall   2 months ago

      "objective truth is delusional"

      That is Robert Kennedy, not anyone from the mainstream left.

      1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

        Right, asswipe:
        "The relationship between the left and notions of objectivity and truth is a complicated and fraught relationship. Within the heterogeneous milieu that is leftist thought and practice, there are unresolved debates as to whether the left ought to embrace objectivity and truth, or abandon these notions as regressive enlightenment ideals which mask power and inequality."
        https://alyesque.medium.com/the-leftist-case-for-objectivity-68422caeeda2

      2. Gaear Grimsrud   2 months ago

        God you're stupid.

  20. Ron   2 months ago

    On CNN yesterday they tried a both sides by claiming that Obama, Hillary and Biden had multiple death threat. Crazy she left out the death threat toward both Bush's and Trump and all presidents and most politicians get death threats thats nothing new but hey had to make one side look equally bad.

    1. Mike Parsons   2 months ago

      "claiming that Obama, Hillary and Biden had multiple death threat."

      How many bullets fired at them?

      Everyone online gets death threats. Trump gets more, he got shot, and then almost shot again. And one of his biggest fundraisers and supporters assassinated. The "boaf sides" would be Obama getting shot in the ear and Rahm Emmanuel getting assassinated in broad daylight.

      These things are in different universes

      1. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

        How many bullets fired at them?

        Can Hillary count the sniper fire at that airfield in Bosnia?

        1. tracerv   2 months ago

          Ha!

        2. Gaear Grimsrud   2 months ago

          Fair. Not to mention Biden's uncle assassinated by cannibals.

          1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

            Another Democrat murdered. Chalk it up to right wing violence.

            --Demon Jeffy

  21. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

    "No, the rot is deeper, and it's not just left-on-right. There was that right-wing crazy who shot and killed several Minnesota state lawmakers in June, for example."

    BOAF SIDES!!!!!!1!!

    Also, attending and endorsing the anti-Trump No Kings rallies, working for a Democratic Party state elected official and hating on Trump all over your Facebook page now makes you almost as much of a "right-wing crazy" as donating to Act Blue.

    SMH.

    Looks like Liz does almost as much research as Boehm and Welch now.

    1. Chumby   2 months ago

      Sarcles attempted a boaf sidez too in Robby’s obituary article.

  22. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

    "Trump wins again as John Roberts joins liberal justices in surprise Supreme Court dissent"
    [...]
    "The Supreme Court has cleared the way for the Trump administration to move forward with deep cuts to federal research funding tied to diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives, marking a significant shift in the government’s approach to scientific investment."
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-wins-again-as-john-roberts-joins-liberal-justices-in-surprise-supreme-court-dissent/ss-AA1MiJIM?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=68c2230d14884adc8a55db3455448ce9&ei=19

    Yeah, a 'shift' toward SCIENTIFIC investment and away from lefty bafflegab.

    1. Jefferson Paul   2 months ago

      That's a poorly-worded title. It implies John Roberts joining the liberal justices is what got Trump his win. Now, obviously anyone who has even a cursory understanding of the justices would know that's not the case.

      It should have read, "Trump wins again despite John Roberts joining the liberal justices in their dissent."

      1. Gaear Grimsrud   2 months ago

        Did Roberts find a penaltax in there somewhere?

  23. Dillinger   2 months ago

    >>But there is also a disturbing strain emerging specifically on the left that makes light of political violence

    children incapable of using their words will lash out.

  24. Dillinger   2 months ago

    >>And who, exactly, will want to speak freely in the aftermath, knowing that sort of violence is now on the menu?

    there's always a next man up. Christianity took down Rome in a matter of years.

  25. MWAocdoc   2 months ago

    "But there is also a disturbing strain emerging specifically on the left"

    Back in my campus anti-war days before I volunteered to serve in the US Army, I observed this disturbing strain in my Socialist Workers Party "Find out which way the masses are going and put yourself at the head of the movement" protest colleagues. Every one of them had this subliminal fantasy of themselves deposing the Tsar while waving red (or black) flags. The Trots notwithstanding, Matthew Dowd was probably correct that Charlie Kirk martyred himself. Dowd is being fired for "insensitivity" but isn't that what hard truth always ends up being? Political violence is never justified, but isn't that what the Civil War (remember "preserving the union" and "freeing the slaves") and World War Two (ending fascist imperialist conquest?) were all about? How can we make a convincing case against retail political violence when we are surrounded by it, having been subjected to the wholesale political violence message for decades? Maybe if our Fearless Leaders would stop trying to make the world safe for Democracy, making war on global terrorism and waging a never-ending war on drugs; and "protecting our vital national interests" all the time everywhere all at once, then the rhetoric might be toned down a bit and revolutionary wet dreams might stop provoking assassinations.

    1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

      Matthew Dowd was probably correct that Charlie Kirk martyred himself.

      What the actual fuck is wrong with you.

      1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

        That asswipe is a TDS-addled lying pile of shit who does his best to hide it.

    2. Chumby   2 months ago

      MSNBC was correct in firing Dowd for saying such stupid shit.

    3. VinniUSMC   2 months ago

      Well, I actually didn't see this coming, but way to remove the mask MWAodcoc. What a piece of shit you really are.

      1. MWAocdoc   2 months ago

        You usually do better than simple name-calling. Exactly what mask did I remove? Do you think our leaders can engage in constantly killing people around the world and here at home without consequences?

        1. Jefferson Paul   2 months ago

          Charlie Kirk wasn't a politician. He wasn't in government making those decisions. He was a private citizen whose goal was to settle things by speech and debate. You can dislike the guy all you want, but your post above seems to blame Kirk for his own death, despite your disclaimer that "political violence is never justified, BUT..."

          If we as Americans, in America, can't express our views, advocate for policy, or exercise free speech, because then we may bring upon ourselves our own murder, the country, and its founding principles, are dead. I don't see it that way. If you do, then you'd have to justify any prominent person's assassination (were it to happen) because they brought it upon themselves by being a free American.

        2. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

          Charlie Kirk wasn’t responsible for killing anyone, demon.

        3. Chumby   2 months ago

          What were the actions by Charlie Kirk that justified what happened?

        4. Gaear Grimsrud   2 months ago

          Read your entire comment twice and still can't quite follow the logic so feel free to clarify. For the record I was peripherally part of the anti war, or more accurately the anti draft, movement. And I read the SWP tracts occasionally. They were just one of dozens of malcontents without a rational political philosophy to me but whatever. You're taking heat for saying that Charlie Kirk martyred himself and follow up by explaining that all war amounts to political assassinations. I can agree with the latter but really struggle with the former. Kirk was not a state actor and I don't see how Dowd's comments, insensitive or otherwise, support your case.

          1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

            I hope he gives you the answer you're looking for. I'm sticking with my new conclusion about him that he's a demon until shown otherwise. Although that's based on the totality of his posts regarding Kirk's assassination, not just this one.

    4. charliehall   2 months ago

      "emerging specifically on the left"

      I regularly see MAGA commenters calling for death to trans people and to illegal immigrants.

      1. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

        Oh? Who?

        I see a few people telling you to kill yourselves but that's a very different thing.

        1. Chumby   2 months ago

          In that case, would it be violence against retards?

      2. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

        Cite missing for the voices in you head, asswipe.

        1. rbike   2 months ago

          Yes, who?

      3. Chumby   2 months ago

        Cite?

      4. DesigNate   2 months ago

        No, you don’t.

    5. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

      Begone demon.

    6. DesigNate   2 months ago

      “World War Two (ending fascist imperialist conquest?)”

      FDR wasn’t against any of those words and actively worked to implement all of them.

  26. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

    "Charlies' skirt was too short!"
    MSNBC lefty asshole gets CANNED!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8mtmQc7vuM
    Bu-bye, shitstain.

    1. Super Scary   2 months ago

      "We don't know if this was a supporter shooting their gun off as a celebration"

      What an absolute piece of shit trying to start that brainless narrative.

    2. Chumby   2 months ago

      Thanks for sharing the update on that.

  27. mad.casual   2 months ago

    There was that right-wing crazy who shot and killed several Minnesota state lawmakers in June, for example.

    [averts eyes and shields brow] Hey, uh, libertarian journalist, you *do* know the critical difference between a journalist public speaker and a lawmaker, right?

    1. Dillinger   2 months ago

      lol had to post this at least twice now.

  28. Dillinger   2 months ago

    >>Today's the 24th anniversary of 9/11

    seems different this year what with NYC surrendering to Islam and all ...

    1. tracerv   2 months ago

      Kind of feels like Bin Laden won, doesn't it. Fucking tragic.

      1. Marshal   2 months ago

        Once Bin Laden said he hated America and wanted to tear it down the American left welcomed him as a true ally.

  29. Wizzle Bizzle   2 months ago

    Still no Sarc sighting. Weird, cuz he totes isn't on one side.

    1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

      He was jumping on the death yesterday, outraged maga would be angry at the death.

    2. Marshal   2 months ago

      He's concerned the emotion of the moment will cause him to slip up and accidentally reveal what he really thinks.

      1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

        "...he really thinks..."

        Pretty sure there is no danger of this happening.

  30. Reshufflex   2 months ago

    “New Era” of political violence? Huh? The lunatic fringe has spent years demonizing Trump and those who walk in his shadow-including Kirk.

    They’ve used the coded language of hate and fake moral leverage to transform anyone outside of their mindless tribe into being evil. And again we witness the consequences.

    The only new era of political violence should be to line these bastards up against the wall. Followed by champagne and celebration.

  31. NoVaNick   2 months ago

    Found out yesterday that my 15 year old son was a big fan of Charlie Kirk’s. I noticed the my son often wanted to discuss hot button topics recently and took a well-reasoned conservative position on them. I didn’t agree with him on everything , but if Charlie was able to inspire my son to argue more effectively and think critically, he did a great thing.

    1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

      Yeah. He was getting pretty big down to middle schools here. Mentioned above. Daughter and her friends watched his debates often.

      That's one of the primary reasons he was targeted.

    2. MWAocdoc   2 months ago

      How did your son react to the news? Horrible to have someone you were listening to respectfully murdered. I hope what he learned from Kirk will carry forward logically instead of emotionally.

      1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        How dare a kid get emotional that someone died. After all Kirk martyred himself as you say above.

  32. Open Borders Libertarian (formerly Sandra)   2 months ago

    America is one day removed from master debation and already things seem a little brighter and happier. Politics aren’t really allowed in my jujitsu class, but you get a feel for people’s leanings and I’ll just say things were decidedly upbeat.

    1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

      KAR, cut the shit and have the balls to post under your original moniker.

      1. Chumby   2 months ago

        KAR has no balls. He’s a below average urban urchin barely making ends meet. Emotionally stunted and low self-esteem, more pathetic than anything else.

      2. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

        The dude doxed a dead cops wife. He has no balls.

    2. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

      Quit sockpuppeting ragebait under Sandra's nick, KAR. You can't even spell her name correctly.

    3. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

      my jujitsu class

      You volunteer as a grappling dummy?

  33. charliehall   2 months ago

    No mention of the assassination of Melissa Hortman or the attempted assassination of Josh Shapiro and his family -- on Passover!

    1. Minadin   2 months ago

      As two more examples of crazy lefties committing political violence?
      1. The Hortman shooting was referenced in the above article. We discussed it several times in the comments.
      2. The crazy (and off his meds) bipolar guy who set fire to the Penn Governor's Mansion stated his motivation was, 'based on "perceived injustices toward the people of Palestine"'. Not a right-wing motivation, certainly.

    2. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

      Boelter was a Walz appointee who supported the No Kings anti-Trump movement and a "Free Palestine" and in the letter he left for police said that Governor Walz instructed him to kill multiple officials, especially Klobuchar, to allow Walz to run for her Senate seat.

      But somehow you guys managed to turn him into a right-wing Trump supporter because a neighbor told the newspaper he was.

      This is as bad as when they claimed potential Trump assassin and ActBlue donor was MAGA. The lack of shame you guys have is amazing.

      1. Chumby   2 months ago

        Charlie is the village idiot in retardville.

        1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

          A village somewhere is missing its idiot.

          1. Chumby   2 months ago

            Matthew Dowd now has more free time where he could fill that role.

            1. Sam Bankman-Fried   2 months ago

              Dowd is a Bush Republican like many others at MSGOPe. Bush Republicans are the same people that orchestrated the coup to overthrow Trump and install Pence as president.

              1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

                Go take a long walk off a short pier, Kirkland.

      2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        Wasn't his neighbor some fat drunk that lived miles away also? Remember that being part of ot.

      3. Sam Bankman-Fried   2 months ago

        Nope, he was a good Christian anti-abortion activist. Crooks was a bitter clinger MAGA Republican. The George Floyd violence was instigated by a false flag operation orchestrated by a Trump supporting white supremacist.

        1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

          Go take a one-way flight to North Korea so your betters can replace you here, Kirkland.

        2. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

          Weren't you the one who said that Republicans donate to ActBlue when you were trying to cover for the second Trump shooter?

          Same deal here. It doesn't matter what political paraphernalia he had or his insistence that he was acting on Walz orders in his own manifesto. Nope, some fat fucking neighbor who lived miles down the road said he was MAGA to the NYT for a thousand bucks, so MAGA he is.

          1. Chumby   2 months ago

            I believe that was Nelson.

            1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

              Yes.

    3. Jefferson Paul   2 months ago

      So this "neighbor" is all the confirmation you need to declare the Hortman killer right wing, but the neighbor of Papale (guy who assaulted Pelosi) who reported him flying a Pride flag at his house isn't confirmation of Papale being left wing?

  34. Incunabulum   2 months ago

    *This does*? But not 2020?

  35. Torguud   2 months ago

    Politics revolves around the use of force to enforce law. What is surprising is how little violence occurs.

    1. MWAocdoc   2 months ago

      Worse, politics revolves around the use of force to enforce very bad laws. Enforcement of very bad laws revolves around violation of their own rules of engagement without penalty.

  36. Open Borders Libertarian (formerly Sandra)   2 months ago

    Cancel culture. You can’t even talk about what a shit Charlie Kirk was without SJWs coming after you online.

    https://www.indiatimes.com/amp/trending/gofundme-for-charlie-kirks-shooter-netizens-track-down-nurse-firefighter-teacher-and-others-celebrating-influencers-assassination-669779.html

    1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

      Fuck off and die, asswipe.

    2. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

      If you're going to try and spoof someone, at least make the attempt to be believable.

      1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

        He’s too stupid to do that. It’s just the same hateful schtick under different names.

  37. Cyrano   2 months ago

    But wait -- Robby Soave assured us in his post about the Kirk assassination last night that political violence is still rare in the US. Is it possible that he is completely wrong and Liz is completely right?

    1. MWAocdoc   2 months ago

      Yes. No! Maybe?

      1. Gaear Grimsrud   2 months ago

        Okay I'm convinced.

  38. AT   2 months ago

    This says it all:

    https://x.com/Black_Pilled/status/1965880897548485042

  39. sarcasmic   2 months ago

    Nobody had heard of this guy until he was killed, and now he’s a religious martyr for the Church of Trump. I wonder if his family appreciates his canonization. I suppose they will appreciate the payout when their religious leader gives them a few million dollars, like he did for the family of Saint Babbitt.

    1. Mike Parsons   2 months ago

      "Nobody had heard of this guy until he was killed"

      You spend this much time on political forums and hadnt heard of Charlie Kirk?

      1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

        He’s a broken drunken idiot that doesn’t remember what he posted 20 minutes ago.

      2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        The piece of shit tried pulling that yesterday too.

        The same drunken leftist who claimed to be pro Tea Party, which Kirk was a big part of.

    2. Sam Bankman-Fried   2 months ago

      I believe school shootings are now copycats and so I advocate not publicizing them. I said the same thing could happen after the bitter clinger MAGA Republican shot Trump and his supporters because even though Crooks was a registered Republican his profile was that of a school shooter attempting to go out in a blaze of glory in his demented mind.

      1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

        "...even though Crooks was a registered Republican..."

        I'm certain you're a slimy pile of lying TDS-addled lefty shit entirely too fucking stupid to know what "false flag" is.
        Fuck off and die, asswipe.

      2. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

        So you got around your ban, Kirkland?

    3. Dillinger   2 months ago

      don't feed the trolls.

      1. Sam Bankman-Fried   2 months ago

        This troll chow is delicious!!! 😉

    4. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

      Now you rear your head, Sarc, when you think it’s safe to enter the water? Go fuck yourself.

    5. tracerv   2 months ago

      Didn't South Park do an episode on him, faggot?

      1. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

        Yup:

        Was 'South Park' Charlie Kirk Episode Pulled After Killing: What We Know

    6. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

      "Nobody had heard of this guy until he was killed"

      Sarcasmic everyone. If they don't have a half hour on CNN or MSNBC, then Sarcasmic hasn't heard of them.

  40. Chumby   2 months ago

    You are not welcome

    On the direction of US Secretary of State Marco Rubio, the US State Department will ban any foreigner who celebrated the assassination of Charlie Kirk online from entering the US.

    - Bellum Acta

    1. Sam Bankman-Fried   2 months ago

      I agree, Crooks was a bitter clinger MAGA Republican and Kash Patel still hasn’t told us anymore about his motive. Plus the George Floyd violence was instigated by a Trump supporting white supremacist orchestrating a false flag operation. That said, everyone is responsible for their own actions even if the initial spark is from a false flag!

      1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

        I'm certain you're a slimy pile of lying TDS-addled lefty shit entirely too fucking stupid to know what "false flag" is.
        Fuck off and die, shitstain.

        1. Sam Bankman-Fried   2 months ago

          Crooks was a Republican but his assassination attempt wasn’t political violence….he was nutz and he was suicidal.

      2. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

        Fuck off, Kirkland.

  41. MWAocdoc   2 months ago

    "Today's the 24th anniversary of 9/11"

    I lost a cousin on that day who worked in the Towers. Please light a candle in honor of him for me, Liz.

  42. VinniUSMC   2 months ago

    Has REEEason gone completely insane?

    Nick Gillespie and Matt Welch discuss Charlie Kirk’s murder and rising violence in U.S. politics today at 2:30 p.m. ET.

    Who the fuck wants to hear "Red Wedding" bitch talk about Charlie Kirk or political violence? Fire Welch, preferably out of a cannon, into a woodchipper.

    Fuck REEason.

    1. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

      +1

    2. Chumby   2 months ago

      kmw@reason.com

      Ask for Welch to be relieved of his employment for promoting political violence. Cite his social media post:

      https://x.com/mattwelch/status/1102654202545913857?s=12

  43. Open Borders Libertarian (formerly Sandra)   2 months ago

    Re: Strange bedfellows

    I’m becoming a fan of the Proud Boys founder, Gavin McInnes. I quote:

    Violence doesn't feel good, justified violence feels great, and fighting solves everything... I want violence. I want punching in the face

    Violence is good in very carefully controlled doses of which yesterday was a good example. Body count: 1. Insufferable fascist asshat wasted: 1. As Orwell said once: Doubleplusgood.

    1. Randy Sax   2 months ago

      You are fucking insane. Killing a person because you don't like the sounds coming out of his mouth. Do you really want to live in that world?

      1. Chumby   2 months ago

        His world is miserable because he is a loser and has to live with himself 24/7. If people better than him are eliminated, he might feel some sort of gain. But alas, he’ll always be a loser.

    2. Sam Bankman-Fried   2 months ago

      ^^^ reported.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

        So we have Kirkland reporting KAR. That’s mildly amusing.

        1. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

          If two monumental trolls like Kirkland and KAR fall for each other's trolling have we reached the event horizon?

          1. Chumby   2 months ago

            This is THE libertarian moment!

  44. Rick James   2 months ago

    Predictions: Will the new deplatforming consist of colleges claiming that security for conservative speakers is just too darn expensive? Look for ways this might get twisted into a means of controlling right-leaning speech.

    I am a bit of a heretic on this subject.

    To get one thing out of the way first, security logistics and costs have already been used as an excuse to block not only right-leaning events, but 'right-coded*' events and speakers. This has been going on for probably more than 5 years if not longer.

    *right-coded is a term that is sometimes used which applies to nominally left-wing people, activists (often feminists, especially in the so-called TERF lane) who, from the outside, fit most left-leaning descriptions, but have come out swinging against wokeness, trans ideology (but I repeat myself), racialized politics etc. These speakers are sometimes referred to as having 'right-coded' ideas.

    Anyway, on with my comment. Several years ago when various people I follow had events canceled by venues and the excuse was "we can't provide the security/it's too expensive etc" there was a twinkle in the back of my brain that made me think this wasn't a handwave or an excuse, but was a legitimate concern. Then over time, I began to seriously suspect it to be true-- all the while the people being de-platformed or having their events canceled continued to suggest it was just a weak-tea excuse. And now with the Kirk assassination, I absolutely believe it to be true.

    The very people who would have their events canceled by the venue would, in the next breath, talk about how many death threats they got on the regular. In the case of the 'gender critical' feminists, you can only imagine the amount of violent threats they got from Girl Bulliers, also known as the Trans Movement. You can only imagine that if you were a venue manager or owner, and you started getting real threats of violence, bombings, mass shootings, firebombs, that you'd be well within reason to say, "These leftoids are fucking dangerous, no way I'm hosting this."

    1. Sam Bankman-Fried   2 months ago

      America is full of guns…you are never safe. But I assume everyone is armed and behave accordingly. In fact Biden got the murder rate so low after the Trump spike in violence that now it’s mostly alcohol plus domestic violence plus guns and thus not really preventable.

      1. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

        it’s mostly alcohol plus domestic violence

        Leave sarc alone.

  45. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

    Why are people acting like the ONLY thing that Charlie Kirk did was to debate college kids? He was ALSO a political operative. He worked directly with the Trump campaign. He visited the White House several times. He was the leader of a political organization which is very much on Team Red. And, let's be honest, he also defended some very terrible ideas, such as the idea that school shootings are justified in order to keep the Second Amendment.

    He should not have been murdered for any reason, let alone for debating college kids. But let's also be honest about who he was.

    1. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

      He was the leader of a political organization which is very much on Team Red.

      This is his real crime, eh?

      1. Super Scary   2 months ago

        "And he worked for Trump? Is it too late to shoot him again?" - The Left, currently.

      2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

        There is a difference between murdering someone because he presents ideas you don't like, and murdering someone because he is working for the other team. They are both wrong, but they are wrong on different levels.

        1. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

          There is a difference between murdering someone because he presents ideas you don't like, and murdering someone because he is working for the other team.

          Huh?

          So which one was it, and how do you know?

        2. Marshal   2 months ago

          What an odd effort at hairsplitting considering his "job" for the other team is presenting ideas you don't like.

          1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

            No it wasn't, which is my whole point. His job *included* presenting ideas that some didn't like, but it ALSO *included* things like fundraising and activism and engaging in electoral politics specifically to get one team elected.

            But I understand why you choose to misrepresent what I am saying, because claiming that "the left shot Charlie Kirk because they don't like his ideas" make them sound way worse than the claim "the left shot Charlie Kirk because he helped get Trump elected".

            1. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

              ^in which jeff doubles down on the hair splitting.

              How the fuck is one of those worse than the other? I'm not even sure which one is supposed to be worse in your fucked up world, jeff.

            2. Marshal   2 months ago

              claiming that "the left shot Charlie Kirk because they don't like his ideas" make them sound way worse than the claim "the left shot Charlie Kirk because he helped get Trump elected".

              Actually most people don't think there is much difference here at all since both are politically driven murders. But you pretend there is because you think the difference gives you the opportunity to attack the right and that's what gives you the dopamine hit.

              1. rbike   2 months ago

                My God, what a dumbass. Jeff just try not to get dumber.

                And this really damages your virtue signalling.

              2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

                One of those explanations turns Charlie Kirk into a martyr of free speech.

                The other one of those explanations casts Charlie Kirk as just a victim of political violence.

                Of course you and your team chooses the explanation that canonizes Charlie Kirk, rather than the one that is closer to reality.

            3. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

              In case you ever wondered if Demon Jeffy is evil folks^

            4. Chumby   2 months ago

              They both sound awfully horrible.

              1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

                Some animal's murders are worse than other animal's murders.

        3. Mother's Lament   2 months ago

          "There is a difference between murdering someone because he presents ideas you don't like, and murdering someone because he is working for the other team."

          No. There really isn't.

          1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

            Oh yes it is. You just don't want there to seem like there is a difference because you are trying to get as much mileage as you can in your canonization campaign for Charlie Kirk.

            1. DesigNate   2 months ago

              Or, and walk with me on this, there really isn’t and you’re just trying to split hairs because if it was his speech he was killed for it makes the left look even worse than people already think they are.

              See how that can be done?

        4. NealAppeal   2 months ago

          Like raping or just nutting on the victim and feeling sorry about it after being caught?

          1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

            Fuck off, troll

            1. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

              The only reason to avoid mass transit is to pwn the left, eh Jeff?

              Fuck off, asshole.

    2. Marshal   2 months ago

      he also defended some very terrible ideas, such as the idea that school shootings are justified in order to keep the Second Amendment.

      In general left wingers are incapable of accurately analyzing everything because their ideology is defeated if they do so accurately. Here we see Jeffey is no exception to that rule.

      It's idiotically wrong to say Kirk believed school shootings were justified.

      1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

        It's idiotically wrong to say Kirk believed school shootings were justified.

        What Charlie Kirk said:

        “It’s worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment.”

        So is your point of contention that he didn't specifically say "school shootings"? You're right, he didn't. He was defending all categories of gun deaths, *including* school shootings.

        1. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

          You would think a libertarian would agree with kirk about 2A...

        2. Marshal   2 months ago

          He was defending all categories of gun deaths, *including* school shootings.

          Again, he is not defending or justifying them which would mean they are a positive outcome. He said they were an inescapable cost which is a negative outcome.

          1. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

            +1, but jeff knows this; he's obfuscating stupidity.

          2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

            Fine, he did not "defend" them, I stand corrected. He absolutely did justify them as an unfortunate byproduct of what he viewed as the necessity of keeping the Second Amendment. He was wrong, because it is not the Second Amendment itself that is the cause of abnormally high gun violence rates in this country, it is the toxic gun culture that has sprouted up around the Second Amendment that has.

            I will also note that Marshal continually accuses me of being a leftist, except the standard leftist argument re: guns is that the Second Amendment itself is the problem, that it needs to be repealed or watered down to a significant extent. I am explicitly not making that argument here. The problem isn't the Second Amendment. The problem is how Americans culturally view guns. I don't expect you to acknowledge this however.

            1. Marshal   2 months ago

              He absolutely did justify them

              Similarly you agree your support for the 4th amendment can be accurately characterized as you justifying murder since the exercise of that right will inevitably lead to some additional murders?

              This is typical Jeffey hairsplitting because his only motivation is finding something to blame the right for. What a ridiculous person.

              I will also note that Marshal continually accuses me of being a leftist

              Which you are. As we see here you try to turn every discussion into the right's faults. If you were not a leftist this would not be such a psychological imperative you end up proving that you justify murder to go along with justifying immigrants jerking off on pre-pubescent girls.

              1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

                Demon Jeffy is just defending an assassination by his team, nothing more.

                That he’s using the same dishonest tactics that he would use to debate any other topic is irrelevant.

              2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

                you try to turn every discussion into the right's faults.

                Not true. But it is true that I do try to expose the faults of the right. That doesn't make me a leftist, that makes me a person who is opposed to the right.

                1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

                  Not true. But it is true that I do try to expose the faults of the right when discussing the assassination of someone on the right. That doesn't make me a leftist, that makes me a demon.

                  It makes more sense in full context.

                2. InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)   2 months ago

                  You only expose your own faults, dipshit. Are you trying to be the most retarded commenter here?

                3. DesigNate   2 months ago

                  No, you do it all the time.

                  Own your biases.

        3. Jefferson Paul   2 months ago

          I'm guessing you'd say something like, "It's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some migrant killers every single year so that we can have freedom of movement (open borders).”

    3. Rick James   2 months ago

      Why are people acting like the ONLY thing that Charlie Kirk did was to debate college kids? He was ALSO a political operative.

      Definitely deserving of an assassin's bullet...

      me very terrible ideas, such as the idea that school shootings are justified in order to keep the Second Amendment.

      I never really followed Charlie Kirk, but this very much smells like he probably made the same argument that free speech advocates make-- that if we're going to have free speech, we're going to have to hear some really awful stuff-- ie, if we're going to have the 2nd amendment where people can freely buy firearms, occasionally, some nutcase is gonna pop off and kill some kids.

      It's the age-old argument about accepting a certain amount of risk to maintain the freedoms you have.

      1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

        I wrote:

        He should not have been murdered for any reason

        I will accept your apology now.

        What Charlie Kirk said:

        “It’s worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment.”

        1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

          We tolerate alcohol-related deaths at 2.5 times the number of total firearm-related deaths because the cost of Prohibition wasn't worth it.

          You're not making the case you think you are.

          1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

            We ALSO have all sorts of rules and restrictions on the sale and consumption of alcohol *because* of the social harm that its abuse can lead to.

            And let's just be real honest. Every nation on earth has "gun deaths", but most do not have a Second Amendment-type of statement in their constitutions. What makes America unique is not the presence of gun deaths, but the *gun culture* that the current interpretation of the Second Amendment promotes. This gun culture prohibits or hobbles many of the types of rules and restrictions that we ordinarily tolerate on other substances and practices that lead to social harm, like alcohol consumption, like driving. The gun culture is the actual problem which leads to the abnormally high gun violence rates in the US compared to other nations.

            The right to own a gun is fine. The Second Amendment itself is fine. The mythology and culture that has grown up around the Second Amendment is generally toxic and a problem.

            1. Michael Ejercito   2 months ago

              So criminal gangs only exist in the U.S. because of the Second Amendment?

              Of course, here is quote from Paul Harding.

              https://www.quora.com/How-can-a-gun-enthusiast-still-claim-their-right-to-bear-arms-is-more-important-than-public-safety/answer/Paul-Harding-14

              All of your Constitutional Rights come at the cost of safety.

              For example, you would be much safer if I could search houses, cars, and people whenever I wanted to, for any reason, or no reason at all. I'd catch more real bad guys. You know those stories about creeps who keep sex slaves locked in their basements for years? I'd find those victims and rescue them. That neighbor of yours who might have a meth lab that is going to send poisonous fumes into your child's bedroom window, or explode and burn down your house? I'd find out for sure whether a lab was there.

              How about all those guys who are probably child molesters, and we've got some evidence, but it isn't enough to convict in front of a jury, especially with that defense attorney throwing doubt all over our evidence? Those guys are on the street right now, and a child you love may be their next victim.

              Give up your rights under the 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments, and I'll make the world safer for you. No question about it.

              The only problem is that if you give up all those rights, which are really just restrictions on the things I'm allowed to do to you, what's going to keep you safe from me?

              Every right you have increases your danger from other people who share that right. Free speech? It allows monsters to spread hateful messages, possibly about a group to which you belong, just the same as it allows you to petition your government with legitimate grievances.

              That free speech even allows you to argue in favor of discarding freedom and liberty as just too dangerous to trust in the hands of ordinary people. Now that, my friend, is what scares me - that people with opinions like that will spread them to weak-willed individuals who haven't really thought through the consequences. I won't argue for taking that right away, though, despite the dangers. That would be even more scary than you are.

              Yes, some people in a free society are always going to abuse those freedoms. Criminals are going to hide behind the 4th amendment to conceal the evidence of their crimes. People who commit horrific acts are going to hire excellent defense attorneys who can convince a jury that doubt exists. And, yes, some people are going to use guns to commit murders.

              Freedom is scary, but lack of freedom is scarier.

              1. Neutral not Neutered   2 months ago

                Thanks for posting

              2. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

                +1

            2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

              We have barely any restrictions. The only rules are that you have to be 21 to buy it, and you can't walk around with an open container, drive drunk, or be publicly intoxicated.

              It's far more difficult to buy a gun than booze, and booze kills far more people.

              1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

                Oh it's way more than that. Look into what it takes to become a licensed alcohol server, such as a bartender. Look into the requirements to get a liquor license. Look into the liability issues for establishments that serve alcohol. And of course the high taxes specifically on alcohol.

                And you conveniently ignored the rest of my comment. Hmm.

                1. Jefferson Paul   2 months ago

                  Do you think it's easy to get an FFL?

                  1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

                    Do you want to talk about the rest of my comment?

                    1. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

                      Do you have to pay for the FBI background check each time you buy an alcoholic drink?

                    2. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

                      He's probably violating his probation when he buys a drink.

                    3. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

                      Look at Demon Jeffy go!

                2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

                  No it really isn't. What a bartender has to do to get a liquor license isn't equivalent to what someone who wants a drink has to do to buy alcohol. You're trying the false analogy now because alcohol empirically kills more people and is easier to access than firearms.

                  The rest of your comments are based on a false dilemma. Hmmmm.

                  1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

                    Fine, I totally concede your entire point re: alcohol, IT'S TOTALLY EASY TO DO ANYTHING AT ALL WITH ALCOHOL. There, happy?

                    Now why don't you provide something meaningful on the actual substantive part of my comment, with regards to the toxic gun culture that we have in this country, and that this is the reason for abnormally high gun violence rates in this nation compared to others?

                    1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

                      Now why don't you provide something meaningful on the actual substantive part of my comment, with regards to the toxic gun culture that we have in this country, and that this is the reason for abnormally high gun violence rates in this nation compared to others?

                      I already addressed this. You're desperately trying to re-frame it because it deflects from a guy who wasn't on your team getting assassinated. That "toxic gun culture" you're trying to assert isn't any worse than "toxic alcohol culture," and has an empirically lower body count.

                      And I know you don't want to treat guns EXACTLY like we do automobiles. It would lead to the end of nearly every blue state gun control law in existence and several federal ones, besides.

                    2. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

                      Fine, I totally concede your entire point re: alcohol, IT'S TOTALLY EASY TO DO ANYTHING AT ALL WITH ALCOHOL. There, happy?

                      Pretty typical jeff reaction when backed into a corner - act like a child.

                    3. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

                      Again:

                      Demon Jeffy is just defending an assassination by his team, nothing more.

                      That he’s using the same dishonest tactics that he would use to debate any other topic is irrelevant.

                    4. Michael Ejercito   2 months ago

                      No law prohibits someone convicted of multiple counts of manslaughter arising from drunk driving from operating a motor vehicle outside of public roads.

                    5. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

                      You're desperately trying to re-frame it because it deflects from a guy who wasn't on your team getting assassinated.

                      Oh, there you go. A made-up argument to avoid engaging in the real discussion.

                      It's funny, you can always win an argument if you invent the other team's arguments for them!

                    6. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

                      "Oh, there you go. A made-up argument to avoid engaging in the real discussion."

                      The real discussion is an actual assassination you fucking psychopath.

                      "It's funny, you can always win an argument if you invent the other team's arguments for them!"

                      This was your first sentence of the start of this thread:

                      "Why are people acting like the ONLY thing that Charlie Kirk did was to debate college kids? He was ALSO a political operative."

                      Again everyone, I have not been hyperbolic in the past when I call Demon Jeffy a psychopath.

            3. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

              Stop talking about culture. Just stop. Jesus fucking Christ.

              What an asshole.

            4. DesigNate   2 months ago

              “We ALSO have all sorts of rules and restrictions on the sale and consumption of alcohol *because* of the social harm that its abuse can lead to.”

              If you were actually a libertarian, you’d be opposed to a fuck ton of those rules.

        2. Rick James   2 months ago

          I wrote:

          He should not have been murdered for any reason

          I will accept your apology now.

          When an innocent person is assassinated (in a particularly horrible way) and you don't like their opinions, you don't open with, "Hang on, let's not forget how bad their ideas were". That's how you open a discussion about a police shooting that on the surface appears to be unjustified.

          “It’s worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment.”

          So it's exactly as I suggested. Actually, no, it's not even as bad as I suggested, and not within the solar system of what you suggested.

          1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

            When an innocent person is assassinated (in a particularly horrible way) and you don't like their opinions, you don't open with, "Hang on, let's not forget how bad their ideas were". That's how you open a discussion about a police shooting that on the surface appears to be unjustified.

            Pretty much puts a lie to the fork-tongued assertion that politics should be about a give and take between ideas, doesn't it? Kirk took them at their word and he was killed for it. And it notably happened after the right started getting Ws in the culture war, after a 30-plus year stretch of the left pushing the Overton window.

          2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

            No, you are misrepresenting my complaint, and deliberately so.

            My complaint is the people around here who are pretending that all Charlie Kirk did was debate college kids, when that isn't what he did. As I mentioned above, to murder someone for saying things you disagree with, or to murder someone for working for the other team, are both wrong, but they are wrong in different ways.

            To murder a person *merely* for expressing ideas that one doesn't like, is wrong in a much more profound way, because it suggests an especially intolerant and authoritarian worldview. Which is why I suspect you and others on the right are gravitating towards this characterization of the crime, because it casts the left as especially villainous, much worse than ordinary murderers.

            And I *NEVER* suggested he deserved an assassin's bullet. You still owe me an apology.

            1. Sam Bankman-Fried   2 months ago

              I helped create the right wing blogosphere…nobody actually retains any of the content 5 seconds after consuming it. It’s all confirmation bias and Orwellian propaganda and there is a shitload of money to be made as part of the right wing echo chamber. Of course I’m the unluckiest guy in America and so I got out around 2012 which is right when YouTube started paying creators and that’s when the money started rolling in. Crowder was the pioneer that stuck with YouTube and really showed what was possible but most bloggers wanted a radio show and book deals.

          3. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

            So it's exactly as I suggested. Actually, no, it's not even as bad as I suggested, and not within the solar system of what you suggested.

            It is worse. He didn't distinguish between which gun deaths were acceptable and which were not. Are "some gun deaths" from a school shooting equally as justifiable as "some gun deaths" from suicides, or domestic violence, or hunting accidents?

            1. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

              You'd think a radical individualist would understand that any number of gun deaths, would still not impinge on an individual's right to bear arms.

            2. Jefferson Paul   2 months ago

              You always dismiss the examples of illegal immigrant killers since you support some form of open/relaxed borders, and reject the idea of closing the border since most of the illegals coming across aren't killers. So you are basically saying, "It's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some migrant killers every single year so that we can have freedom of movement (open borders).”

              Does that mean you support migrant killers? I don't think you do, just as Charlie Kirk didn't support gun homicides. Kirk recognized that keeping your rights has unfortunate unintended results or trade offs, but getting rid of rights just to save "just one life" is not the right approach to take.

              1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

                So you are basically saying, "It's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some migrant killers every single year so that we can have freedom of movement (open borders).”

                No, because that's a bullshit conclusion, just like Charlie Kirk's claim is a bullshit conclusion. Support for rights is not the same as support for every instance of the exercise of those rights. And I'm quite certain that Charlie Kirk, the Master Debater of College Students, understood this. There is zero inconsistency between supporting free migration of people, and opposing every crime that any migrant might commit. But, in order to correctly hold BOTH positions, it means that you have to do more than just say you support those rights. You ALSO have to support measures to deter and punish those crimes.

                Because I don't think Charlie Kirk was stupid, and he knew that supporting rights is not the same as supporting every exercise of those rights, when he made that claim that "some gun deaths are worth it", he is actually saying that he doesn't give a shit if *some* people die so long as he has his weapons.

                1. DesigNate   2 months ago

                  It’s not a bullshit conclusion, because the exact same thing has been said to you about your immigration stances and you consistently get ass blasted over it.

                  1. Jefferson Paul   2 months ago

                    I would expect nothing less from chemjeff. I applied his exact argument for his desire for open immigration despite the result of some migrant killers to Charlie Kirk's position of supporting the 2nd Amendment despite some gun deaths.

                    Does chemjeff admit he was wrong? Of course not. I don't think I've ever seen chemjeff admit something like that. He's been cornered with his own logic applied to himself, and he always weasels out of admitting it. I guess he's allergic to introspection and honest debate.

          4. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

            Also, one more thing:

            Whenever anyone makes a claim like that, along the lines of "you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet", it is nearly always delivered from a place of privilege. The people who think it's okay to have a few broken eggs never expect to be one of the eggs that is broken. I seriously doubt Charlie Kirk ever expected to be one of those "some gun deaths" when he made that statement. So be careful when advocating for some claim which inevitably leads to harm, because you never know when that harm might fall upon you.

            1. Michael Ejercito   2 months ago

              https://ethicsalarms.com/2022/05/25/on-the-uvalde-school-shooting/#comment-807397

              It is true, of course, that the 2nd Amendent makes it more difficult for the state to keep us safe from the street thug and the gangbanger.

              Of course, what we should all remember is that the 2nd Amendment is not alone in this. Other constitutional provisions place limits on the state to keep us safe from the street thug and the gangbanger.

              Consider the 4th Amendment. It restricts the ability of the police to find evidence of criminal wrongdoing. This means the street thug and the gangbanger may get away with their crimes, which enables murder.

              Not only that, the 4th Amendment is unique to the United States of America. Surely the police in Paris, Lagos, or Singapore do not worry about the 4th Amendment, probable cause, or the exclusionary rule. They just look for evidence. Why not follow the example of other countries?

              Or what about the 5th or 6th Amendments? How many more street thugs and gangbangers could we catch if we could make them testify against themselves?

              Or why even bother with trials? Why not trust the police to judge who is and is not guilty?

              How much more difficult would it be to commit murder- let alone get away with murder- if we let the police judge whether or not a street thug or gangbanger is guilty?

              Or what about the 14th amendment? What if there were certain racial demographics in the U.S. that commit murder at a significantly higher rate than the general population? Why should not the police focus on those demographics? Why should not lawmakers place extra restrictions on the liberties of people in those crime-prone demographics?

              Would it not be worth it if it prevented one murder?

              Why do we need civil rights at all, given how they tie the hands of the state?

              1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

                I agree with your point here. I support the Second Amendment. I support the Fourth Amendment. In fact I think the Fourth Amendment does not go far enough. It only prohibits "unreasonable" searches without a warrant, but as we all know, that word "unreasonable" is too vague and slippery, and what constitutes "unreasonable" has been watered down into almost nothingness.

                1. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 months ago

                  "It isn't the 4th amendment itself, but the toxic privacy culture that has sprouted up in this country around the 4th amendment."

                  chemjeff's bullshit regarding 2A can easily be molded to kill 4A

                  1. Michael Ejercito   2 months ago

                    One could call the 4th Amendment "privacy culture".

                    1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

                      Demon Jeffy is much more supportive of privacy culture than gun culture. He doesn't use guns for his crimes. He uses candy and a lock on his mom's basement door.

        3. Zeb   2 months ago

          What's wrong with that statement? That's just reality. If guns are available, some bad people are going to do bad things with them sometimes. In this country, we have the 2nd amendment and a lot of people that value the rights it protects. You simply can't have a robust right to be armed without the possibility that bad things will occasionally happen.

      2. mad.casual   2 months ago

        It's the age-old argument about accepting a certain amount of risk to maintain the freedoms you have.

        Yeah, taking it out of context, especially in light of his death, the argument is made on the layers-deep false supposition that the 2A defends school shootings.

        The idea that we can't have guns without defending murderers is the same sloppy thinking or sleight of hand that buttresses a President backhandedly threatening air strikes against law-abiding citizens.

    4. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

      Why are people acting like the ONLY thing that Charlie Kirk did was to debate college kids? He was ALSO a political operative.

      Which is immaterial. Someone whose political activity centered around going to the most left-wing institutions in the country and debating kids who went there, doesn't make him a sinister figure like you're implying.

      This is like your defense of officials at Oberlin who helped college students try to get Gibson's Bakery shut down, because the owners had the temerity to not want to be robbed. Whatever puts your lefty boos in a bad light immediately has to be redirected.

      1. Sam Bankman-Fried   2 months ago

        He was in Utah! All of those students are married 22 year old conservatives with 2 kids with a pregnant wife at home. Why do you think Utah fully implemented Obamacare?? So gay dudes in San Francisco pay for their maternity coverage!!

        1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

          You've never actually been to Utah, have you? Even BYU's professoriate is chock full of the same old CRT spouting marxists. The University of Utah isn't any different from any other shitlib college.

          1. Sam Bankman-Fried   2 months ago

            Yeah, having taxpayers pick up whites’ maternity costs is so awful…way to fight the good fight opposing white babies.

            1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

              Take a trip to the state to the southeast of there if you want to see what real taxpayer subsidization of births is like.

              College students are also required to have some kind of health insurance to be able to attend the school, so your own snark is falling apart in the face of your own lack of knowledge.

              1. Sam Bankman-Fried   2 months ago

                Maternity wasn’t covered in anything other than employer provided policies prior to Obamacare. Utah explicitly stated maternity coverage was why they were fully implementing Obamacare….but Mormons had figured out how to pay maternity costs prior to Obamacare because they were doing fine financially even as maternity costs hit $8k a baby.

                1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

                  I'm not talking about employers, I'm talking about college students and what's required of them to attend college. It was that way long before Obamacare. Try to keep up.

          2. Neutral not Neutered   2 months ago

            This occurred at Utah Valley University, not the University of Utah.

            1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

              Lt Dan: "Yes, I know that."

              It's the same thing there, too. Kirk didn't go to these places because they were right-wing echo chambers. UVU's the same way.

  46. Super Scary   2 months ago

    https://www.charliesmurderers.com/

    I wonder if Sam is on here yet.

  47. Mike Parsons   2 months ago

    Photos of the suspected shooter going around. Looks like a scrawny soiboy, pretty striking resemblance to David Hogg

    1. Sam Bankman-Fried   2 months ago

      Now tell us about the tshirt.

  48. jagjr   2 months ago

    ("Joy at a man's execution?!" balked Morgan.)

    this really tell you something. if an always-on-the-wrong-side-of-life-and-history knucklehead like Piers Morgan can object to a position you are taking, you're doing it wrong.

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