Trump's Drug Boat Drone Strike Shows How 'Terrorism' Makes Everyone Killable
The logic of the war on terror means infinitely expandable government power.

Vice President J.D. Vance was almost incredulous when a reporter asked him what "legal authority" the Trump administration used to blow up an alleged drug boat off the coast of Venezuela with a drone on Tuesday. "There are people who are bringing—literal terrorists—who are bringing deadly drugs into our country," Vance said.
Why are they "literal terrorists"? Because the administration said so. President Donald Trump declared just after taking office that he would be designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations. One of them was Tren de Aragua, the organization accused of sending out the drug boat. (The administration tends to play fast and loose with labeling things Tren de Aragua; for all its criminal activities, the gang is not known to smuggle cocaine.) After the drone strike, multiple cabinet officials made sure to use the phrase "narco-terrorist organization."
What is a terrorist? According to U.S. law, it's any "subnational groups" or "clandestine agents" who use "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets." Of course, that can describe almost any rebel group, including ones that the U.S. backs, or almost any intelligence agency, including ones in the U.S. government. In practice, that means that a "terrorist" is whoever the executive branch decides to label one.
We need the power to kill the terrorists. Who are the terrorists? The people we need the power to kill. This circular logic is the basis for forever war. It can justify almost anything the government wants to do to anyone, far beyond the threats that first justified the counterterrorist measures. Legal authorities that were born out of the Oklahoma City bombing and matured during the long war against Al Qaeda are now being used to blow up suspicious boats in the Caribbean.
"[A] terrorist act is violence carried out by a terrorist. Conversely, if someone is killed, it is because they are a terrorist, because to be a terrorist means to be killable. This circularity of the definition allows the designation to justify violence against entire populations both ex-ante and ex-post," wrote journalist Jake Romm in an essay aptly titled, "Your Death Will Serve as Its Own Justification."
These authorities took many presidents to build. The term "narco-terrorism" was popularized during Plan Colombia, a U.S.-backed campaign against Colombian communist rebels during the Clinton and Bush administrations. The Bush administration, of course, also declared a "global war on terror" after the attacks by Al Qaeda on September 11, 2001, arguing that more or less anything goes in an emergency.
The Obama administration turned the extraordinary into the ordinary, running a drone assassination campaign that was out of sight, out of mind for the public. The administration chose the targets—including a teenage American citizen—through a completely secret process. Bilal Abdul Kareem, an American journalist who survived five airstrikes in Syria, found out in 2019 that it was legally impossible to challenge the "kill list" or even find out if he was on it.
In response to Abdul Kareem's lawsuit, the government's lawyers kept insisting to an increasingly frustrated Judge Rosemary Collyer that they could not "confirm or deny" whether their client was trying to kill Abdul Kareem. "If the government says we can't confirm or deny the underlying facts to prove his standing, well then all we're left with is the complaint," Collyer sighed. In the end, she allowed the state secrets privilege to triumph.
"The government explains that disclosure of whether an individual is being targeted for lethal action would permit that individual to alter his behavior to evade attack or capture and could risk intelligence sources and methods if an individual learns he is under surveillance," Collyer wrote.
In other words, even trying not to be killed is an action that could harm the war on terror. You're not allowed to know whether the government is trying to kill you, so you can't prove that the government is trying to kill you, so you have no way to oppose the government trying to kill you. A "terrorist" is guilty until proven innocent, which is impossible by design.
Trump pushed the boundaries of what can be labeled terrorism. In 2019, the first Trump administration designated a branch of the Iranian military a "foreign terrorist organization," the first time that law was ever used against a foreign government body. "Iran's actions are fundamentally different from those of other governments," the White House declared. Our terrorism is covert activity; their covert activity is terrorism.
Both the Trump and Biden administrations used that designation to seize Iranian oil tankers, because that oil was now terrorist oil. And declaring part of the Iranian government terrorists helped justify war with Iran politically, without going to Congress. The terrorist designation for Tren de Aragua seems to be another attempt to do that. Despite statements to the contrary from his own intelligence officers, Trump declared that Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro runs Tren de Aragua from behind the scenes.
Amidst the military buildup in the Caribbean Sea, the administration has issued a $50 million bounty for Maduro's capture. Should the White House decide to wage a regime change war, all the pieces are already in place, without any need for public debate. Overthrowing the Venezuelan government (and more importantly, imposing a new one) would be a natural extension of this new campaign against "narco-terrorism."
A terrorist can be anyone the White House declares: an American journalist, a suspected drug smuggler, or another government. The only requirement seems to be that the terrorist is located outside of U.S. soil. President Barack Obama insisted that the government should never "deploy armed drones over U.S. soil," while he justified killing American citizens without trial, in secret, as a necessary battlefield tactic. Yet why couldn't the battlefield be America itself, if the situation called for it? Who would be able to question the President's judgment?
Deploying uniformed troops against street crime, flying (unarmed) Predator drones over protesters, blowing up suspected smugglers instead of arresting them—these images are breaking down the political distinction between the "battlefield" and the "homefront." Last week, U.S. Border Patrol agents were photographed training with mortars during live-fire exercises in Alaska. Since when do American police need artillery?
These measures alone would have been dismissed as paranoid fantasies twenty or thirty years ago. State power is built piece by piece. It starts with measures against unpopular enemies. (Al Qaeda and organized crime gangs are a genuine menace to society, after all.) People trust that it will only be used carefully. But when you outsource your judgment to an absolute ruler, you no longer get to choose how far he goes.
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Trump's Drug Boat Drone Strike Shows How 'Terrorism' Makes Everyone Killable
Fucking LOL
"What terrifies me is if ISIS were to detonate a nuclear device and kill 50 million Americans. Imagine the backlash against peaceful Muslims?" - Norm McDonald
"The wives and children of drug dealers have always been the primary victims of the drug war." - Reason
[Drake with his hand up]: Terrorists
[Drake with his hand up]: Drug dealers
[Drake with his hand up]: Non-uniform combatant
[Drake pointing and smiling]: They aren't radical Islamists, they're groups of lone wolves who've self-radicalized. Their victims aren't Christians or Westerners, just ill-defined collections of Easter worshippers.
Trump's Drug Boat Drone Strike Shows How 'Terrorism' Makes Everyone Killable
I still can't read this title without hearing Norm's voice say, "I don't think the drone strike is what showed how terrorism makes everyone killable."
Half the population: Never Forget.
Matthew Petti: Forget what? What am I forgetting?
What this is really about is truth. What is truth? It is and always has been what the government says. That could have been any boat with anyone on it. NO ONE really knows. We only know what they tell us. It was narco terrorists, they said, and no one can refute it.
They don't give a fuck about 5 people on a boat or 3,000 lives in buildings or 10,000 Vietnamese collateral damage citizens or sending anyone to a country they have never been to.
This is the truth right here.
The only reason to blow up a boat like that is if it is an imminent threat. If it's not cruising directly at a ship, or credibly carrying a fucking nuke, then the boat could be stopped/intercepted/picked up at port/shore... drugs on a boat are not an imminent threat.
This is the truth right here.
How libertarian of you to tell other people what the truth is/isn't. Even "I trust the people who were in the situation at the time to have made a fair and/or objective call." is less authoritarian and more respective of individual liberty than "Everyone else is invariably wrong regardless of any/all (lack of) evidence."
I know, you're like AT when it comes to authoritarianism. Boot-licker.
As I said, the only reason to blow up a little boat like that is if it was an imminent threat. "They was moving drugs" is not an imminent threat. I even agree that there are instances where the use of force in the "war" on drugs is justified, but this ain't it bro. There is no evidence to be had, because it was blown up instead of intercepted and confiscated.
^^This.
^ This is really about TDS-addled lying piles of slimy lying shit lying.
There are no peaceful Moslems,their evil ideology requires them to kill all Infidels
Remember that time Obama killed a kid and a bunch of bystanders in a drone strike just because he'd already killed the kid's father without so much as an indictment, let alone a conviction for a capital crime?
-jcr
You mean it's ok because Democrats did it first?
Your autistic repetition would make more sense if you actually criticized when dems did it, and not defend it.
Remember how JD Vance was wrong about immigrants eating cats? By Petti's own source:
So we're more absolutely certain that they're involved in 100% no-shit acts of violence that libertarians consider no-shit crimes Constitution or not, but they're only probably kinda involved in drugs and it's wrong to kinda go after them under those auspices.
"They're mostly peaceful extortionists, human smugglers, and contract killers." - Reason
The factory owner said too many of the white working class were addicted to drugs which tracks with Vance’s memoir “Dreams From My Mamaw” about how his grandmother raised him because his mom was a drug addicted violent slut.
Trump’s first military order was for SEAL Team 6 to assassinate a little American girl and 9 of her little friends. We lost one SEAL and gathered no actionable intelligence and Trump lied about the mission to the Gold Star father.
Yes, and absent any objection from the TDS-addled slimy piles of shit currently listed as 'editors' of this now lefty rag.
I remember finding a publication named "Reason" dedicated to free minds and free markets sometime in the'70s.
And then it went to shit.
Fuck off and die, "Reason" asswipes. The lot of you.
Wars without a specific enemy that can be defeated become forever wars with moving goalposts. Examples include the wars on poverty and on drugs. Poverty gets redefined, people invent new drugs, and more and more people will be labeled as terrorists, so these assaults on liberty can go on forever and ever and ever.
And your solution to the cartel/criminal organization problem is....
Does the NAP even exist in your lexicon?
My approach to the criminal cartel organizations is to decriminalize their victimless bread and butter activities and arrest perpetrators of actual crimes like burglary, armed robbery, theft, assault, battery and murder. If the LEO's you cravenly toady up to actually followed the constitution with probable cause for search and arrest warrants in cases of actual crimes and starved the criminal organizations of their sources of income, then those of us who actually love liberty will have no complaint. Let the drug abusers have unlimited access to their vices and arrest THEM if they perpetrate actual crimes too.
So when someone in your family dies from an O.D. due to fentanyl, you can celebrate their freedom to ingest whatever drugs they wish.
That's correct. Unlike you who prefer to kill them in a drug raid instead.
Unlike TDS-addled piles of lefty shit who would prefer them killed by cops.
Thanks for the clarification, asswipe
If we got rid of you leftists none of that would be necessary.
Got rid of? That's why conservatives can't be trusted any more than liberals. Each is itching to impose their own form of tyranny.
People overdose on illegal drugs because they are illegal. Legal drugs have predictable composition and purity and the makers can be sued if the labels are incorrect. For example if someone buys what they are told is cocaine, and then die from a fentanyl, they're shit out of luck. However it the stuff was legal then any overdose would be a result of negligence, not fraud. Point being that if drugs were legal, fewer people would die.
A common response is "If drugs were legal then everyone would do them!" To which I ask, if drugs were legal would you do them? No? Then why would everyone else?
I’ll consider hard drug legalization once the democrats are wiped out and addicts are held responsible for their shitty behavior. Otherwise you just get Portland, Seattle, and San Francisco.
Fentanyl deaths spiked in April 2020 because Trump shut down the border to immigrants that wanted jobs but kept it wide open for criminals…very strange.
Fentanyl deaths spiked in April 2020 because Trump shut down the border to immigrants that wanted jobs but kept it wide open for criminals…very strange.
"I'm a fucking lefty ignoramus"
Thank you,TDS - addled lying pile of lefty shit.
Yup,in a free country everyone is free to OD or blow their heads off.
They're their lives to do with as they wish so long as they respect individual rights of others. Sometimes there's tragedy, but a tragedy is not necessarily an evil, even if all evil is tragedy of some sort.
No. You mourn for them. It's not a question of "celebrating" rather respecting peoples' rights to ingest. Some people will overdose. But the way to reduce overdoses is to have pure accurate measured doses from legal pharmacies. Some people will misuse firearms but we don't outlaw firearms.
So your solution is unicorns. Got it. A non solution.
Because they are already doing all those other crimes dummy.
Your entire post is fucking nonsense lol.
I have come up with a new daily prayer: "Lord, protect me from earnest people, unable to mind their own damned business, pursuing non-existent imaginary solutions. Amen"
'I have come up with a new daily idiotic claim'
Fixed for you, TDS-addled slimy pile of lying shit.
He makes perfect sense despite your scatalogical preoccupation.
It doesn’t help that MW is frequently being shitty.
Yeah, it amazes me how shitty libertarians can be towards each other at times. But are they libertarians?
I thought it was libertarianism.
It isnt. Because libertarianism includes the NAP, which does not mean liberty for criminals at thr expense of non criminals which is what is being endorsed. It does not mean ignoring societal rules because your specific brand of beliefs over rules others.
That's what most of you don't get. Libertarianism isnt about overriding the will of others solely for your preference.
Even without drugs these cartels commit other crimes. Human trafficking. Sex. Kidnapping. Theft. And on and on.
Thinking the magic solution is to remove one crime and all puppies and unicorns begins is just fucking sophomoric.
Demanding society be burdened by criminals instead of government isnt a fucking solution either. Your just switching the nexus of power.
It is infantile thinking. One done when a real solution cant be presented. That's why his argument is nonsensical.
Tired of this infantile version of libertarianism. It will never exist without responsibility. Libertarianism without it is just anarchy.
And i can bet you 1p to 1 odds doc has been against citizen self defense in Rittenhouse and Penny.
So offer real solutions instead of number stickers. Shit is getting old.
You live in a society. Demanding you dont live in such and can do whatever is not reality.
You are such a fucking clown. No one said people can do whatever they want you fucking half wit.
A human being should be allowed to ingest whatever they fuck they want. Plenty of people OD on "legal" drugs. 2 of the top 3 suicide methods are guns and overdoses. Both guns and drugs can be obtained legally. You should choose one and get the relief you need.
A crime should NOT be someone took a non approved drug, but for acts that cause harm, like the OP said, theft, assault, etc.
The idea floated was not "do whatever you want." It was ingest whatever you want and do not commit other crimes.
People commit theft for drugs sure, but also for spending habits that are not drug related you fucking idiot.
There is no reason to read the bullshit posted by the lying pile of lefty shit posting under the bogus handle of "freedomwriter"
"freedomwriter" is nothing other than a slimy pile of lying shit hoping to hide behind a bogus handle.
Fuck off and die, asswipe.
No, freedomwriter made some good points. But he should have refrained from personal attacks.
"Thinking the magic solution is to remove one crime and all puppies and unicorns begins is just fucking sophomoric."
Jesse, I will try one more time: I have NEVER said that legalizing victimless activities is a solution to anything. Despite having been called on your logical fallacies many times, you continue manufacture opinions for others that they do not hold. Legalizing drugs, prostitution and gambling does not solve the problems that prostitutes and their clients, gamblers or drug abusers may cause for themselves. It takes away a source of income and an incentive for violence for the drug gangs and makes society generally safer in the process. Criminalizing victimless activities makes society generally less safe for innocent bystanders near the drug warriors and the drug gangs, and fails massively to reduce drug dealing and drug abuse. There is, therefore, NO justification for your position and lots of justification for mine. I know this will not put even a little dent in your thick skull, but for those reading this who are not terminally biased in your idiotic direction, it may do some good.
By the way, all major thinkers in libertarianism slowly drift to this belief, that some type of responsibility and system must exist, that libertarianism is not anarchy. From rothbard to Mises you see it in earlier works compared to later works.
At some point the distinction between the two becomes clear. Usually when negative externalities of anyone can do whatever they want become clear.
I never thought I would live to see the day when you would cite ivory tower thinkers to support your moronic opinions. "Drifting" is exactly what thinkers do. Meanwhile, those of us who live in the real world consider facts to be superior to theories.
LEGALIZE DRUGS. When's the last time pharmacies engaged in violent activity? When's the last time liquor producers, distillers, brewers, and liquor store owners engaged in violent behavior? Oh, yeah!!! That's right during prohibition!! The homicide rate decreased by 40% after the end of prohibition in 1934.
In libertarian lexicon but not conservative lexicon. The drug warriors are the ones initiating force so as to impose prohibition, not the drug dealers or cartels. No one is being forced to use drugs. It's universal knowledge of drugs addictive qualities, yet the addicts did them anyway, no one forced them. The drug warriors are the evil ones, not the drug dealers.
^^Agreed.
Did we have an AUMF for this ? Or are we pirates/terrorists now ?
TdA is an announced terrorist organization.
How do you know they were actually Tren de Agua? Oh, wait ... because Trump said so! Like the kids killed by a drone strike in the middle east at a daycare center with our Aid workers.
what evidence would satisfy you?
What would satisfy you if the drug warriors broke into your home? How about a search warrant based upon probable cause that a crime had been committed? Would that satisfy you?
And here doc admits no evidence would.
Notarized membership cards?
That's right bootlicker. Governemnt fucks lie, especially when it comes to war.
Fuck off and die, TDS-addled asswipe.
objection non-responsive lol
"What would satisfy you if the drug warriors broke into your home? How about a search warrant based upon probable cause that a crime had been committed? Would that satisfy you?"
Fuck off and die, TDS-addled slimy pile of lying shit. You deserve nothing other.
Lol. What a fucking childish dumbass you've become.
Just above you demand investigations and such, now you claim there is no evidence and the entities here dont do them.
Because Doc wasn't given the evidence it has to be a lie.
Does trump now need to run everything by you? Lol.
I find it weird youre angrier at foreign cartel members getting killed than you've ever been for a citizen being killed, raped, etc by an illegal here. Priorities i guess.
Jesse, did you miss the part of our Constitution that required all "process of law" that is "due" before depriving ANY "person" of "life"? Here, as far as I can see, there was no process of law relevant to the alleged (potential) crime. I haven't seen anyone even identify a relevant federal law making any relevant conduct criminal. What statute do you think is controlling?
No warrant was sought or issued. No search or seizure was effected. No evidence was presented or even obtained. Our national leaders (at least Trump and Hegseth) merely committed murder far from our shores, and to do so they abused other Americans who had sworn to support and defend our Constitution in every official action they take.
Much of what we have are mere allegations of a few people suffering from their own form of Trump Derangement Syndrome (Trump, Hegseth and Rubio) that the people on the boat they blew up (1) were not U.S. citizens, (2) were Venezuelan citizens, (3) were involved in smuggling a substance that cannot be imported into the U.S. without committing a crime. Trump and Hegseth publicly admitted to murdering 11 people that, as far as I know, they have not even identified publicly.
Jack Jordan, did you miss the part of our Constitution which allowed, say, the attacks on the Barbary coast pirates?
Or are you simply a TDS-addled lying pile of shit?
Sevo, I'm not following your logic. What does blowing up a boat carrying 11 people who allegedly planned (at some unidentified time in the future) to commit a crime in the U.S. (drug smuggling) have to do with combatting the Barbary coast pirates? Have you heard of the logical fallacy of false equivalency?
Have we ever not been terrorists/pirates?
Does an AUMF not make you a terrorist?
Is that all al-Qaida was missing? They didn't sign the proper form;)
Yes, sometimes "we" have not been pirates and terrorists. Within our borders there are some honest cops, honest prosecutors and honest magistrates who base their search warrants upon probable cause that a crime has been committed, and reasonable suspicion that the search or arrest warrants issued will target a legitimate suspect; who do not lie or round up the usual suspects and plea bargain them into guilty pleas; and who refuse to look the other way or let dirty cops off the hook.
And only doc can say who those ones are. He is king everyone.
Well, obviously you can't, so maybe we should be glad that SOMEONE can tell right from wrong.
Fuck off and die, asswipe.
He's right. You can't logically answer him, so you resort to insults.
Terrorists.
>>The logic of the war on terror means infinitely expandable government power.
lol 2003 called.
In completely unrelated news, apparently "There are pre-Sumerian religions less dead than 'defund the police'".
Turns out the "What's a terrorist?" game doesn't get you very far politically.
next time they post an "Ask Us Questions" deal I'm asking who they write for ultimately.
"Defund the police" was never legitimate. Expecting the law enforcement agencies and their agents to comply with the Constitution and follow reasonable policies and procedures while punishing officials who violate the laws and procedures and lie on affidavits is, on the other hand, legitimate. You have a problem with that?
Expecting the law enforcement agencies and their agents to comply with the Constitution and follow reasonable policies and procedures while punishing officials who violate the laws and procedures and lie on affidavits is, on the other hand, legitimate.
Doesn't it suck when movements based upon reasonable ideas get hijacked by certified idiots? Tea Party and police reform come to mind. One hijacked by morons on the right and the other by morons on the left.
This statement is fucking laughable as you keep demanding the INA is illegal.
Hey retard, youre not the ruler of society but you act like such through your comments.
You just declare everything you disagree with unconstitutional or illegal. Even when youre given direct evidence. You provide less substance than even sarc. You two are a lot alike.
And here I thought Readon wanted "wrong within normal parameters"?
So then why do you think the administration did this? Is it just to make it look like the administration is doing something serious? Is it to show the Chinese the administration is on a hair trigger? Is it to show the EU American priorities? Is it to scare Maduro into abdicating?
They did it because fuck you, that's why.
Reviving the Monroe doctrine, or FAFO.
As a nationalist, I'm ok with the latter depending on how far that goes.
I'm guessing "all of the above"
Anything to take your mind off the Epstein files and talk about something else is good.
nobody cares about Epstein, Marjorie
Trump could murder someone on 5th Ave and not lose a single vote. Do you think his defenders care what's in the Epstein files?
Thanks Maddow.
I was going to ironically say this, but you did it for me unironically.
Yep. Probably should have cried louder when Obama did it - but that boat has sailed now.
Also, Marvel's Civil War plot with the algorithm-driven killbots doesn't seem as far-fetched nowadays, does it?
The solution, of course, is to ditch Orangemandbad - because a traditional deep-state politician won't tweet mean things.
What? No, of course they use the same powers against you, don't be ridiculous. But *they're adults* who knows how to comport themselves on Twitter and they'll only kill the bad people.
"Tu quoque! Tu quoque!"
-Trumpian mating call
Leftists really hate when their hypocrisy gets called out.
But that's (D)ifferent and besides, it's racist to criticize a Black man for anything.
I have no problem with blowing up drug smugglers. Next, go after the drug submarines.
Remember how enemy subs were dispatched during WW II. Do the same to drug cartel subs.
Not quite so easy. This isn't WWII. What's the next generation? Stealth drug drones - arial, marine and submarine. Real hard to detect, real hard to kill. There's more than enough value-added in avoiding being taken out by the narcs to justify hiring the best engineers, which the cartels will likely do. Safer, less people killed or arrested that way, less product lost.
All drugs should not be illegal. End all forms of govt welfare when making that change.
TdA members sleeping in Davy Jones’’ locker is not a bad thing.
I'll do you one better. Drug smuggling into the United States, especially fentanyl, has become an act of war, particularly when perpetrated by the Chinese. It's designed to weaken us spiritually, economically, culturally and socially.
It's also an act of violence when you consider that over 80,000 people in the United States die of a fentanyl overdose each year. That's murder. In the US if a drug dealer knowingly sells tainted drugs to a person and they die, the dealer can be charged with drug-induced homicide, felony murder, or reckless manslaughter. You think the TdA cocksuckers give a fuck if their drugs are "safe for consumption" or not?
Blow them all to fucking hell (without due process, because they're not American citizens) and I won't shed a god damned tear.
Oh, that's ridiculous. You might as well say the makers of foreign cars commit murder because a large number of people die riding in them in the countries they're exported to.
You're comparing illegal drugs smuggled into the United Sates that routinely kill people to a Mercedes? Read this again:
"In the US if a drug dealer knowingly sells tainted drugs to a person and they die, the dealer can be charged with drug-induced homicide, felony murder, or reckless manslaughter."
That is highly unlikely. Why would a drug dealer want to kill a paying customer? If conservatives actually wanted keep people from dying of overdoses due to inaccurate dosages, then they'd favor legalization so drug users could get pure accurate dosages from pharmacies. You conservatives WANT people to die so you can use it as an excuse to expand police powers and impose your own form of oppression.
Why would a drug dealer want to kill a paying customer?
Want to kill? Probably not.
Entirely indifferent to whether the product they are selling could or will kill you? Yeah.
The same people who make arguments like this, unironically argue that companies knowingly kill people for profit. The same people who they rely on to buy their products. CEOs are murderers!!! But drug dealers are good guys.
Maybe liberals do. But, libertarians do not.
No, it's not. No one is forced to do drugs. The addicts knew the drugs were addictive before they ever used them.
IF they knowingly or negligently sell tainted drugs, IF, then prosecute them.
I do think that TdA, hated by conservative cocksuckers, give a fuck whether they kill their customers. Why would they want to overdose their customers, thereby lose money?
The conservative, drug warrior cocksuckers are the true evil ones. If the drugs were legalized, people could get pure accurate dosages at a legitimate pharmacies. But, the cocksucking conservatives WANT people to die so they can use it as an excuse to expand oppressive government power.
Then you are a FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR,....FAR, FAR greater danger to liberty and true morality then the cartels and Tren de Aragua could ever be. Like many or most conservative cocksuckers, you have this false-righteous bloodlust. Judging from the number of cocksucking conservatives who applaud extrajudicial killing of people who have not infringed individual rights, if conservatives ever obtained unchecked power, they wouldn't hesitate to holocaust the opposition (so would many liberals if they had unchecked power). Conservatives false-righteous morality is an absolute evil.
I do think that TdA, hated by conservative cocksuckers, give a fuck whether they kill their customers.
That's retarded. TdA doesn't give a fuck who they kill. They might be happy to have some braindead idiot stick around to keep paying up for his next hit, but when that braindead idiot dies, or doesn't pay, he's just another piece of garbage to throw out. They don't give a single fuck about any human life beside their own. They're drug traffickers, human traffickers, gang-bangers, etc... just criminals. (Who should have been arrested, or at least, killed in a firefight when they resisted arrest, not just bombed.)
Be that as it may, they still make less money if the addict dies and more money if the addict lives and continues to pay. The reward structure still goes against them killing their customers.
Drug trafficking is a victimless offense. No one is forced to use the drugs. So is human trafficking a victimless offense since the trafficked people are not forcibly kidnapped rather voluntarily seek to enter the U.S. There's so much demand to enter the U.S. that the traffickers don't have to force anyone.
If conservatives really wanted to end cartels like Tren de Aragua, they'd end drug prohibition and implement an expanded guest worker program, thereby displacing Tren de Aragua. But conservatives want to expand the power of the government. They need Tren de Aragua as a boogyman to justify expansion of government power.
You seem obsessed with the word "cocksucker." Tell you what -- I'll let you suck my dick to see if you're gay.
Other than that, no -- I don't give a FUCK if subhuman drug smugglers from other countries get blown to shit without OUR system of due process. They're not entitled to it.
Too bad, so sad. Fuck off.
Dude, you're the one who first used the term "cocksucker". Stop whining.
As dangerous as liberals are to liberty, that's what makes conservatives more dangerous to liberty than liberals - eagerness to circumvent the rule of law to murder those they don't like, and to expand unchecked power of the state. Even if the people on the boat were smuggling drugs, they're not forcing anyone to use them, so they're not committing any moral wrong, at least not morally wrong to the degree that it justifies the use of force. The conservatives, however, are initiating the use of force committing murder. That makes conservatives evil, more evil than Tren de Aragua. Since conservatives hold more political power than Tren de Aragua, that makes them more dangerous than Tren de Aragua. If conservatives ever got unchecked power in the U.S., they'd get rid of or abrogate Constitutional protections and impose their own form of tyranny. Too bad liberals are so oblivious to the conservative threat and want to disarm the people in the face of it.
Mule, did you miss the part of our Constitution that required all "process of law" that is "due" before depriving ANY "person" of "life"? Here, as far as I can see, there was no process of law relevant to the alleged crime. No warrant was sought or issued. No search or seizure was effected. No evidence was presented or even obtained. Our national leaders (at least Trump and Hegseth) merely committed murder far from our shores, and to do so they abused other Americans who had sworn to support and defend our Constitution in every official action they take.
Much of what we have are mere allegations of a few people suffering from their own form of Trump Derangement Syndrome (Trump, Hegseth and Rubio) that the people on the boat they blew up (1) were not U.S. citizens, (2) were Venezuelan citizens, (3) were involved in smuggling a substance that cannot be imported into the U.S. without committing a crime. Trump and Hegseth publicly admitted to murdering 11 people that, as far as I know, they have not even identified publicly.
Trump is very slickly trying to avoid Constitutional problems, even if he's ultimately wrong. Note that the attack happened in international waters upon a non-U.S.-flag vessel. Trump would argue that since it happened outside U.S. territory and not on a U.S. flag vessel and not to U.S. citizens, the U.S. Constitution, and even U.S. criminal law or procedure, does not apply. And he could contend that he could do anything he wants, having sovereign executive power of the United States backed up by the U.S. military of which he's commander in chief.
Also, note that the attack did not take place in Venezuelan waters, thereby not posing a direct threat to Venezuela itself, and avoiding a possible naval confrontation with Venezuela itself even if by drone.
Venezuela has the right to defend Venezuelan ships on the high seas. Whether they would or could defend a boat owned by Tren de Aragua against the U.S. Navy or against U.S. drones is highly unlikely.
So Trump was slick enough to pull it off. Still doesn't mean he didn't commit murder in the absolute moral sense - willfully initiating the use of force knowing it would cause death. Unless it can be shown that any of the people killed had themselves initiated force to the extent of justifying death, then Trump ordered an actual murder in the absolute moral sense.
No, it's not an act of war. But, yes it is designed to weaken us spiritually and culturally. How? They'll flood the market with fentanyl so the U.S. will adopt oppressive authoritarian policies in response, thereby getting U.S. Americans to accept authoritarian social and cultural policies like the authoritarian policies of Red China, and thereby inducing U.S. Americans to be less repelled and more attracted to Red China and its authoritarian social and cultural policies.
Okay cool, now do Obama and his drone murders.
We need the power to kill the terrorists. Who are the terrorists? The people we need the power to kill. This circular logic is the basis for forever war.
Yes but a different logic will not provide the basis for anything other than forever war. For a few years after the Cold War ended, there was a window where we could have, in the words of Jeane Kirkpatrick, become once again a normal country in normal times. We took the first steps at a peace dividend - closing hundreds of bases and reducing the size of both the military and the MIC. Different rounds took place in 1988, 1990, 1991, 1993, 1995. Even in 2005, the Pentagon recommended closing a few dozen bases - but politicians (spec R's) now prefer pork and permawar.
There is NOTHING apart from virtual bankruptcy that will ever compel pols to base military spending on military need anymore. 'Terrorists everywhere' is just the easy way for pols to smear anyone who might oppose unlimited spending on military pork. And since war no longer even involves taxes - much less conscripted blood - there is no reason why Americans will oppose permawar. Which makes it easy for the graybox commenters here to spout the same nonsense that anyone who opposes permawar obviously supports terrorists.
The worst part was the lost opportunity for rapprochement with the Russians. Instead they deliberately kept Russia as "the enemy" because they could, and they like having more enemies.
One of the signature pieces of legislation of Gingrich's Contract with America in 1995. To create a formal process for NATO to expand and to make it formal US policy for US facilities in NATO to be used to act beyond the geographic bounds of NATO. An almost entirely bit of partisan legislation (in the House but not the Senate) that enabled the US to keep Russia as the enemy and to double down on imperial meddling in the Middle East without needing any footprint there.
Exactly right. Stupid-ass Daddy Bush's "pivot to the middle east" was the most stupid foreign policy mistake since WW2. After the fall of one enemy, one's focus should then be on the next most dangerous enemy. After the fall of the Soviets, the next greatest threat was Red China, not the strategically insignificant middle east. We should have consolidated gains after the fall of the Soviets, drawn closer to the Russians, less close to Red China.
Former Philipine President Duterte is in prison at the Hague having been charged for the summary execution of 11 drug traffickers. President Trump has just authorized the summary execution of 11 drug traffickers on a boat targeted by a military strike. I'd say a Nobel Peace Prize is now out of the question.
Guess he has to bomb an American citizen at a wedding now to get it.
No, they'll give him a Nobel, but let the ICC nab him when he goes to receive it in Norway.
If I were the judge facing a claim of state secrets privilege, I'd say, “You are of course free not to present a defense, in which case the plaintiff wins by default.”
And you'd be quickly overturned on appeals. Glad to know you'd be an activist who doesn't follow laws or precedence.
Jesse, what law do you think Trump and Hegseth were following?
Prior to punishing criminal conduct, Trump was required to identify the controlling law, secure a grand jury indictment, pursue a public trial in accordance with rules of procedure and evidence, and secure a conviction by a jury. Even if Trump had done all the foregoing, Trump could not have imposed the death penalty. He could have imposed only the penalty that Congress authorized in the relevant statute.
Alternatively, Trump is required to be acting under a declaration of war. Our Constitution vested in Congress, alone, the power to declare war. In mid-March, Trump merely proclaimed we were at war with Venezuela. Since then, as far as I know Congress has done nothing to authorize Trump to wage war on Venezuela. Are you aware of any such authorization by Congress?
^^This.
I hope the Eco-terrorists and the Rainbow-terrorists are next.