The Supreme Court May Rule for Trump on Nationwide Injunctions but Probably Not on Birthright Citizenship
The president's executive order on birthright citizenship had its first test before the Supreme Court.

The U.S. Supreme Court heard oral arguments on Thursday in a consolidated case arising from President Donald Trump's executive order purporting to strip birthright citizenship from millions of U.S.-born children. However, the central issue before the Court was not the legality of Trump's order; rather, the issue was whether federal district judges may issue nationwide injunctions that entirely block such orders from going into effect. Still, there was some discussion among the justices about the legality of Trump's underlying order, and that discussion was probably not reassuring for Trump.
The most forceful critic of Trump's position was Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who told Solicitor General John Sauer that Trump's claim that birthright citizenship should be denied to the U.S.-born children of both undocumented immigrants and temporary lawful visitors ran counter to both "the plain meaning" of the Constitution and over a century's worth of Supreme Court decisions. "As far as I see it," Sotomayor said, "this order violates four Supreme Court precedents."
A few minutes later, Justice Neil Gorsuch referenced Sotomayor's point while questioning Sauer about the government's argument that other, more laborious alternatives to a nationwide injunction might still be available to those seeking emergency relief from a presidential decree. "The argument, of course," Gorsuch said, "is that the injury [from Trump's executive order] is immediate and ongoing and, as Justice Sotomayor suggested, might be seriously questioned as to its compliance with this Court's precedents." The tone of Gorsuch's voice suggested that he himself might be harboring some of those serious questions about the legalities of Trump's order.
By contrast, the solicitor general seemed to be on steadier ground with Gorsuch and other justices when it came to the Trump administration's desire to eliminate the practice of nationwide injunctions. Which is not exactly a surprise, since Gorsuch and others are already on record as critics of the practice. In a 2020 concurrence, for example, Gorsuch, joined by Justice Clarence Thomas, complained about the "problem" of "trial courts ordering relief that transcends the cases before them. Whether framed as injunctions of 'nationwide,' 'universal,' or 'cosmic' scope," Gorsuch wrote, "these orders share the same basic flaw—they direct how the defendant must act toward persons who are not parties to the case."
Judging by Thursday's oral arguments, the Trump administration may be able to secure a majority in its favor on the nationwide injunction issue. Indeed, since there were already several justices looking to limit the practice, this case might provide them with the vehicle to do it.
But I would not bet the farm on Trump winning anything more than that, at least as this case currently stands. By my count, not a single justice said anything that was remotely supportive of Trump's executive order itself, while several justices cast meaningful doubt on its legality.
So if Trump does win this case, which he might, it seems likely to be a narrow win on the issue of nationwide injunctions alone. The larger constitutional fight over birthright citizenship is likely to be postponed until a later date.
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So if Obama executive ordered a ban on guns in direct opposition to 2A , every single gun owner would have to file a (very expensive) separate legal case on their own behalf to establish injury, instead of a non-SCOTUS judge being able to put a stop to it across the board by issuing a nationwide ban on grounds that unconstitutionality affects everybody.
That is nonsense, if a judge unilaterally blocks something like that the immediate action afterwards would be an appeal which we already have a process for. Why make every single injured person reinvent the wheel ? Unless you are judge shopping for a friendly 'gotcha' ruling.
Because they are a district appeals court. Their injunctions and decisions should only affect their district. It's when they get bumped up to the Supreme Court that they become nationwide.
IANAL and I have lots of problems with our legal system. But pretending to misunderstand the system doesn't solve anything.
But not everything can fit in such nice buckets as the district courts.
So if your citizenship is denied, You need to hit all 9 district courts?
Same sex marriage? Only valid in certain districts? Where are you going to file your taxes?
Besides, an injunction is just temporary until the courts can hear the case.
Stop pretending to be as dumb as Liberty_Belle. The decisions themselves always apply to the parties in question, just as trial convictions always apply to the parties themselves. It's when an appeals court issues some kind of order that it should only apply within their district.
My mistake was writing "Their injunctions and decisions" and thinking only sane people would read that, and understand it doesn't make a person guilty in only one district. For one thing, appeals courts don't decide guilt or innocence; they are appeals courts, and confirm, deny, or modify trial court verdicts.
But if you want to continue playing the idiot, go ahead and pretend IAAL. If I could fix stupid, there wouldn't be any stupid government tricks left.
You think the courts are clogged now ? Just wait until everyone has to reinvent the wheel over and over again.
What if Obama/Trump/whoever decides, well I lost in district X ... oh well, I'll still screw the people in other districts and hope for a win. If I never appeal the loss to SCOTUS, then SCOTUS will never get a chance to swat it down. Don't worry Judge Aileen Cannon is still on the bench, she will give me a W at whatever the cost.
Outliers aside, I believe wide scope is sometimes necessary. If the case is good enough, it is good enough to survive a little delay for injunction / appeal.
You not liking the system is not my problem. You thinking the system sucks won't fix it. Next time wear an onion on your belt.
That is literally what they've already been doing.
Because that is how the legal system already works.
SCOTUS has already discussed this with deportations. Jurisdiction is defined by residency relative to district courts.
The XOs are nationwide. So should the court decisions in each case be, unless there is a local aspect, which is not the case for the citizenship issue.
Correct. The federal courts would be more overwhelmed with lawsuits than the immigration courts are today with asylum applications. Essentially, the SC will have destroyed the federal legal system.
Actually, just the citizenship lawsuits will do that. Four hundred thousand children were born to non-citizens in the US last year. Add that by decades of years, and we are talking about tens of millions of legal cases in a system that can't even handle the less than a million that it has today.
If Trump said guns should be banned, his defenders would turn them in in droves. He is a religion.
"Illegals are stealing our guns. Yes, they are. They're stealing our guns. They use those guns to kill pretty, young, white women. Yes, they're murdering pretty girls. I call upon all Americans to turn their guns into the police. You can trust the police. This will save pretty white girls from being murdered. Just turn in all your guns. And vote for me in 2028! Let's make America Grate Again!"
It is amazing how often liberals try this argument to have conservatives state they support gun rights of everyone. You really have just resorted to a bog standard MSNBC liberal.
It has been amusing.
He really is a basic bitch thinker,
A lot of the views expressed about the 14A were being put forth well before Trump, you know that right?
SCOTUS typically takes cases where there is a disagreement in the circuits. A nation wide injunction in a district court denies all courts of review from litigating the merits. It is judicial insurrection.
Except with the 14th it directly includes jurisdiction in it.
Jurisdiction means full jurisdiction.
Where there is no US jurisdiction for illegals:
Military draft registration
Passports
Taxes for foreign work.
Jury duty
Us consulate access as a citizen (in fact illegals have consulate rights to their home country consulates)
Legal right to cross the border
You idiots remain ignorant to base concepts of the discussion. Manu legal scholars have addressed this. One of the most famous is a book from 2 liberal law professors from UPenn.
This is why you have to pretend there is no argument. Primarily you're ignorant. Secondary you realize how insane a cincept that crossing a line and spitting out a new citizen is.
District courts jurisdiction is limited to their district. Circuit courts jurisdiction is limited to their circuit. The Supreme Court claims the authority to create law nationwide. They can all be right, wrong or otherwise but there have to be actual parties with standing to even begin the process. A district court by definition can only rule on the evidence presented by the parties within their district. When a district court imposes a judgment on other parties they deny those people their due process. That doesn't change because you think it's impractical.
If the SC is going to rule on the EOs legality it should absolutely be done at the same time as any ruling about the scope of an injunction.
Otherwise the ruling just creates trouble
That’s it how that works. It would be fast tracked to the SCOTUS. Similar to Bush V. Gore in 2000.
How’s your great uncle doing?
That is what an appeals court is for.
Reasonable people can argue the merits, meaning and intent of the wording of the 14th. The 2nd is 100% fricking clear.
They aren't the same.
I can't read what's behind the gray box but, for/from context/replies:
The 2A is a right of citizens. Foreign nationals have no right to march across the border armed. The argument is stupid at it's premise.
Further, it would (or is supposed to if the people arguing MUH 14A! were the least bit honest) be an equal violation of the 14th for someone to say that illegal immigrants have rights that can't be infringed which the government freely infringes domestically or on it's own people. It is an ideological coup that essentially turns a democracy of, for, and by the people into an authoritarian plutocracy that gets to decide which people it deigns as right-thinking and allowed to defend themselves (for now) and which deplorable people it doesn't.
This, while not the sole cause nor cookie cutter, is actually a part of the narrative of how the Nazis rose to power.
Roberts will make it as narrow as possible if he follows previous practice. Stupid thing to do, since the dispute isn't going away.
The dispute, right now, is just about the scope of the injunction - not the merits.
Then these two concluding paragraphs are misleading.
1. Birthright citizenship as it works today MUST go. You can't allow the whole world to just fly here for the weekend and birth an American. The administration's argument that it only ever applied for children of slaves is as good as any. Whatever it takes to get rid of it.
2. Nationwide injunctions are sometimes appropriate. I dont know to resolve that one.
Uhhh, the whole word can't just fly here, they need visas.
Did you really mean to interpret that statement so literally, when he was obviously being hyperbolic for effect?
Gosh, I hadn't realized hyperbole was limited to one use a day.
How’s your great uncle doing?
Birthright citizenship was in English common law even before Jamestown. Most of the Western Hemisphere has it.
Have you tried emigrating to the UK and having a baby ?Get back to us.
English common law came from England, not the Western hemisphere.
It started in England, and spread across most of the Western Hemisphere due to colonialism. Duh. Any honest person with a brain can figure that out.
So it's no surprise you pretend to not get it.
You're as deliberately obtuse and dishonest as your mentor Jesse. All you have to do is renounce economics and his gang will love you. That's all you have to do.
Renounce it! Say Adam Smith was a dumbass! Say comparative advantage does not exist! Renounce opportunity cost as something you cannot measure which means it doesn't exist.
Stop standing up for economics and embrace protectionism, mercantilism, and Trumpism.
If you don't you'll never be popular.
I was pointing out that the Western Hemisphere has no bearing on US common law, since he was invoking English common law as the source of US common law.
Karl Marx also tried to use the teachings of Adam Smith. You fall closer to his beliefs regarding Smith.
I do love how you continue to claim others are denouncing economics despite you being the one constantly shown to be wrong. Have you wondered why yet?
You don't even seem to know there are different economic theories let alone schools of economics. You're so fucking ignorant.
This is false. It was determined by allegiance to the ruler, not location.
England got rid of birthright citizenship, then, because they don't have it today.
"Most of the Western Hemisphere" is comprised of shithole countries that people try to leave in order to get to the United States. I wonder if these two things are connected somehow.
Also, most of the Western Hemisphere doesn’t have English common law. They use civil codes instead.
no way to solve it without the result being gamed by one side or another... the legal system relies on people (judges, lawyers, interest groups) acting in good faith - and that is an rare supply these days, judge shopping being evidence of this.
>>the Trump administration may be able to secure a majority in its favor on the nationwide injunction issue.
so ... justice as designed then
>>The tone of Gorsuch's voice suggested that he himself might be harboring some of those serious questions about the legalities of Trump's order.
oooh serious questions ... and at oral arguments this race is lost
Trump Derangement Syndrome to be studied under new bill... how to tell if you've got symptoms
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14715851/maga-ally-trump-derangement-syndrome-outrage-trolling-democrats.html
'The TDS Research Act would require the NIH to study this toxic state of mind, so we can understand the root cause and identify solutions,' said Davidson.
Communist totalitarians defined opposition to their leader as a mental illness.
Add that to the long list of things that Trump defenders and leftists have in common. It's getting to the point where the only way to tell the difference is with who, not what.
Find some indefensible government action and then tell Trump defenders that Obama did it. They'll tell you it was pure evil. Do the same thing except you say Trump did it. They'll attack anyone who criticizes it and shower them with contempt.
No principles. None.
Haven't they already done studies that show democrats are more likely to be depressed, unhappy, ideation of suicide and/or murder? Not just by a little bit, like 50% more likely.
What they haven't done yet is declared criticism of Trump to be a mental disorder. That's what the commies did. Criticize Stalin and they kill you. Criticize Khrushchev and you go to the gulag. That's what Trump defenders want. And they're on their way to making it law. It's only a matter of time before some EO based upon some fictitious emergency is used to jail his critics.
You are an example of TDS. Everyone here you call a cultist has also criticized Trump. But you take it to the mental illness level. This is true of you and other democrats.
Usually one trait of an illness is some behavior that affects work, family, friends. Liberals, including yourself, have cut off members of their own family simply for not always raging against Trump. This is an illness, not a mere disagreement.
I hate to break it to you ..., well, no, I hate to weigh in when sarc will misconstrue the intent ... but TDS is apartisan. You've got it just as bad, since you refuse to acknowledge that Trump has ever made any mistakes or told any porkies.
* He thinks tariffs raise prices enough to discourage imports and encourage inefficient domestic producers, yet he thinks prices won't rise, yet he thinks prices will rise so much that moms will only be able to buy 2 dolls instead of 30.
* He thinks he has to levy tariffs on islands which are owned by and part of countries which have the same tariff applied. He also thinks he has to levy tariffs on an island which is a joint UK/US military base.
* You and the other Trumpistas say his tariffs are in pursuit of zero tariffs around the world, yet Trump says 10% is the new zero. Also you say judge Trump by what he does, not what he says.
When you can sort out that cognitive dissonance and admit Trump is a liar and faker, you just might be on the road to being TDS-clear.
And you have a different strain of TDS. Tariff Derangement Syndrome.
Couldn't find anything to rebut, could you? Nice to advertise your own TDS -- Truth Derangement Syndrome.
Common to many penguin worshippers.
Another example of someone who demands he is right in spite of actual evidence of failure in his beliefs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not worth arguing with the religious.
How’s your great uncle doing?
Maybe they could call it Leader Dysphoria? I'm sure the cure is surgery. Fontal lobotomy maybe?
Yes! I can't wait to start collecting disabiliy.
Slave owners also described slaves desire to run away from slavery as a mental illness - called drapetomania.
And what about people who hate Jews, J(ew)free?
I can do that for way cheaper…
If they can ban certain guns because of the reasonable limits on freedom arguments. Like trying to ban everything except muskets because of what existed when the constitution was written, blah blah.
Maybe just ban birthright citizenship for people who arrived here by plane? Planes didn't exist when the constitution was written. Damn, cars didn't exist. Maybe if you arrive at the hospital by car your kid should not be a citizen? Reasonable limits based on original intent or something, blah blah. Planes and cars enable assault pregnancies. Also, need a c-section? Didn't exist when the constitution was written. Again, not a citizen.
And the kinds of shoes worn by the illegals that sneak in on foot also didn’t exist in the 18th century. That too can be a disqualifier.
You are right. Forgot about shoes.
How’s your great uncle doing?
Why don't you just put up a sign saying "We refuse the right to serve anyone, at any time, for any reason.", you racist? 🙂
Sotomayor said, "this order violates four Supreme Court precedents."
Keep the status-quo going!!! /s
Does Sotomayor have any explanation what-so-ever for why that 'AND' 'jurisdiction' is there?
Tell us more about 85% tax rates on manufacturers. I want to see that stupidity again.
Will you admit it is above 0%? You seem to be unaware. In the other thread you were given links to the costs from government on housing. Do you have a comment?
How about you stay on subject instead of trolling around like a child?
All the information you claim is stupid is where you asked the 1st time.
I get that this is just oral arguments but I'd like to see her citations.
"the problem of trial courts ordering relief that transcends the cases before them these orders share the same basic flaw—they direct how the defendant must act toward persons who are not parties to the case."
It's not a FLAW, it's exactly what Federal judges should be doing. If an official violates the Constitution, the Federal judge should forbid the official - and all OTHER officials - from violating the Constitution! If the Supreme Court had been doing its freaking job over the last century, there would be no question here. I don't know whether to laugh or cry ...
This is false as Justice Thomas pointed out today.
How many of the TROs and injunctions have been overturned?
I honestly don't have a strong position on birthright citizenship. It's one of those things that you can argue flat or round but it's not a slam dunk and will ultimately depend on how the Supremes thread the needle. As a practical matter overturning birthright citizenship as it has been assumed would require making 90 year olds eligible for deportation. On the other hand going forward Congress could mitigate the personal damage. But of course they won't. The court can duck and weave but they can't hide behind their robes. Trump, believe it or not, can tell them to fuck right off. Roberts claims that his court has the supreme authority to override the decisions of a co equal branch. But of course he's actually not proposing that the Court is co equal. He claims that it can overule the other branches and create the law of the land by dictat. The ball is in his court and he can either recognize the constitutional authority of the executive or create the constitutional crisis the talking heads are shrieking about. This isn't about about Trump anymore.
I agree with just about everything but that last sentence. It's all about Trump. The Supremes have long since made a mockery of the Constitution being the law of the land, going way way back, but most egregiously approving FDR's New Deal. Roberts hasn't got the spine for standing up, either for or against Trump's interpretation, so it really comes down to how far Trump wants to push things.
Fair enough.
The EO kept the citizenship for those already granted it under the old interpretation. This is common when a ruling or belief is changed. It just forbade it going forward. This is a common outcome of cases like this.
Even at that, overturn it, if the administration wants to go after 90 yr. olds, have at it. If they want to pen an EO or "internal memo" prioritizing working-age grifters on the public dote and violent criminals above the 90 yr. olds, great.
Bulger was 85 when we arrested him. Palij was 95 when we deported him to Germany. It's not like the laws or parts of The Constitution gradually wear off as you age.
I don’t really think that Birthright Citizenship is all that critical. The problem was the illegal alien mothers turning around and becoming undeportable as a result. Under Biden, that happened because of the idea that you can’t separate the mother from the child, so if the child can stay, so can the mother. A week or two ago this was addressed y simply ordering the mother deported, and then giving her the choice of what to do with her kid. The kid had US citizenship, so could return, by right as a citizen, when they are of age. And, no, the kid was not deported - just the rest of the family. The parents just decided to take the kid with them. That’s the sort of rights we usually give parents of minors, and esp if young minors.
Quit letting illegal alien mothers use their birthright citizen children as anchor babies, preventing their own deportation, and the problem effectively disappears.
China sends 40k pregnant woman to a US protectorate near Guam every year to birth citizens. It is a big problem.
If nationwide injunctions go away, there will be no way to stop Trump's illegal actions. He can pump out illegal EOs far faster than the courts can handle. We are already seeing this now and it would get 100x worse.
You remain unimaginably retarded.
Do you have a substantive response or you just a MAGA troll?
That’s all you deserve.
There was nothing substantive in your post. Don't demand from others what you fail to do yourself.
Oh, I can definitely imagine her being more retarded.
Huh, and I was told that district court judges are impartial and totally able to apply orders to the whole country.
Now you're telling me they can't?
But you were wrong on that point - but I'm supposed to accept your assertion that Trump will totally lose on the birthright citizenship question?
Sure, Jan.
https://www.axios.com/2025/05/15/tariffs-inflation-recession-data?utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
Turns out the actual data doesn't support the 'tariffs will destroy America' narrative.
I’m sure the super-honest paragons who write for this pig stye of a webzine will get right on it.
Turns out the actual data doesn't support the 'tariffs will destroy America' narrative.
Again, complete and total shutdown of ports, distribution centers, and even major domestic production centers didn't destroy the US (or global) economy and, even if it did, "it would be worth the cost to save grandma". The idea that tariffs were going to cripple the economy was obviously retarded, playing to whose awareness and memories don't stretch back 5 yrs.
You guys really don't get it, do you.
Birthright citizenship is over. The Courts can hem and haw all they want, but they - the Federal Courts, both district and circuit - have lost the people's trust.
And I say that very, VERY sadly - because I'm on record telling people (MAGA and BLM, in particular) that if they lose faith in the justice system, then all this thing we call "The USA" is going to fall apart. Which, I might add, is exactly what the Marxist agitators want.
But, the Federal Courts keep pushing and now they've pushed too far. Among other insane things, they declared that a gangbanging wifebeating illegal alien is somehow the "victim" in a cruel plot against... criminal aliens who have no right to be here. Proudly open terrorist sympathizers are the "victims." Mob agitating anti-American activists are the "victims." How is ANYBODY supposed to take that seriously? And by making these ludicrous decisions, these Federal Judges have lost the support of and trust of the People in the justice system as a result.
Of course, the Left likes to say the same thing. Reason, in particular, does it all the time. ACAB, right? The police have lost the support and trust of the People, right? And how's that working out for you?
I saw a great tweet today that really summed it up perfectly.
He's referring to this. Just some rando on the internet, but he nailed it. That's it man. They're just not going to tolerate it anymore. They're not going to tolerate a court "of law" that is openly and brazenly and even mockingly putting the "rights" of border jumping criminals and their intentional anchor babies over those of American Citizens.
The People are done with that. That's what birthed MAGA into existence and appointed Donald Trump its godking.
So, birthright citizenship may exist on paper - depending on how SCOTUS rules - but it's gone in fact. Anchor babies will never be regarded as American Citizens by any ACTUAL American ever again. They won't care about their "due process," nor will they shed a tear over whatever hellhole they wind up in hours after they're arrested.
And that you still don't get that, after all this time - well, that's just you never, ever, leaving your echo chambers. That's a partisanship at work so mindless, so zealous, so cultlike that it's incapable of anything meaningful.
Least of all "Reason."
The post you quoted has sadly given the victory of the argument to the left. Due process does not mean trial it means the process due for a given state response. In the case of illegal immigrants due process is merely determination of legal status prior to deportation. Done at the administrative level.
Blah blah blah you are a loser and I'm glad you see it coming. Write all you want, but you have a losing argument and it's rather funny that you think anyone except the usual cabal of losers is going to care about this. I couldn't even finish reading your wall of loser whining, but I'm glad it exists because it means you're out of my way in the real world where you have no chance of getting in our way.
Excellent analysis.
The justices' silence on the President's putative emergency power to stop birthright citizenship suggested doubtfulness. Their relative silence on Congress's clear ability to end birthright citizenship under Article 5 was also telling.
Overall, the prospect didn't look good for nationwide injunctions, nor for anything less than meticulous Executive and Legislative cooperation and advance planning before making a change that triggers an avalanche of interstate conflicts and federal/state inconsistencies.
The case reminds me of the tangle created by last year's Insurrection Clause matter, which involved a putative mandate by 14A, also hung up on the matter of inaction on Article 5.
It would seem that the "lower courts" have a huge problem with deciding cases correctly.
"Since 2007, SCOTUS has released opinions in 1,250 cases. Of those, it reversed a lower court decision 891 times (71.3 percent) while affirming a lower court decision 347 times (27.8 percent). In that time period, SCOTUS has decided more cases originating from the Ninth Circuit (243) than from any other circuit. The next-most Article III circuit court is the Fifth Circuit, which had 105 decisions. During that span, SCOTUS overturned a greater number and percentage of cases originating from the Ninth Circuit (192, or 79 percent).
The Supreme Court hears and reaches decisions in an average of 74.3 cases each year. There are a number of major decisions SCOTUS can make—affirm a lower court's ruling, reverse it, affirm in part, and reverse in part. This data only examines when a court affirms or reverses a lower court's decision. The vast majority of SCOTUS cases originate in a lower court—either one of the 13 appeals circuits, state-level courts, or U.S. district courts. Original jurisdiction cases cannot be considered affirmed or reversed since SCOTUS is the first and only court that rules in the case."
https://ballotpedia.org/SCOTUS_case_reversal_rates_(2007_-_Present)
The best outcome of this case in my opinion would have SCOTUS rule against nationwide injunctions and rule that the executive order against birthright citizenship is too broad, but leave the door open to a more refined executive order.
If the parents are extra-legal, then they are outside the jurisdiction. If they are documented, the they would be subject to the jurisdiction. There are/have been other exceptions to birthright citizenship, so it is not completely out of the question or completely outlandish.
I do however believe that the executive order is overly broad and should be less restrictive. I however, believe that illegal immigrants should not be rewarded for thwarting the legal process simply by giving birth and being sheltered because the public does not want to deport the child or separate the mother from the child.