An Intelligence Memo Casts Further Doubt on Trump's Nonsensical Definition of 'Alien Enemies'
A declassified assessment contradicts the president's assertion that Tren de Aragua is "closely aligned with" the Venezuelan government and acts at its "direction."

In a March 15 proclamation, President Donald Trump declared that suspected members of the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua were "alien enemies" subject to immediate deportation. He invoked the Alien Enemies Act (AEA), a rarely used, 227-year-old law that applies when "there is a declared war" between the United States and a "foreign nation or government" or when a "foreign nation or government" has "perpetrated, attempted, or threatened" an "invasion or predatory incursion against the territory of the United States."
To support that dubious interpretation of the AEA, Trump averred that Tren de Aragua (TDA) is "is closely aligned with" the Venezuelan government. He said the gang was "undertaking hostile actions and conducting irregular warfare against the territory of the United States…at the direction, clandestine or otherwise, of the [Nicolas] Maduro regime in Venezuela." A newly revealed memo from the National Intelligence Council (NIC) casts doubt on those assertions. Those claims, in any event, do not validate Trump's highly implausible reading of the AEA, which a federal judge in New York rejected on Tuesday, agreeing with an earlier decision by a federal judge in Texas.
The declassified April 7 memo, which the Freedom of the Press Foundation obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, says "Maduro regime leadership probably sometimes tolerates TDA's presence in Venezuela, and some government officials may cooperate with TDA for financial gain." But it adds that "the Maduro regime probably does not have a policy of cooperating with TDA and is not directing TDA movement to and operations in the United States."
The U.S. intelligence community, which includes the CIA, the FBI, and the National Security Agency, "bases this judgment on Venezuelan law enforcement actions demonstrating the regime treats TDA as a threat," the memo says, describing "an uneasy mix of cooperation and confrontation" rather than the "top-down directives" that characterize "the regime's ties to other armed groups." It adds that "the decentralized makeup of TDA" would "make such a relationship logistically challenging."
The NIC says "most" of the intelligence community views "intelligence indicating that regime leaders are directing or enabling TDA migration to the United States" as "not credible." While "FBI analysts" agree with that overall assessment, it adds, they believe "some Venezuelan government officials facilitate TDA members' migration from Venezuela to the United States."
Contradicting Trump's assertion that TDA is "closely aligned" with the Venezuelan government and acts at its "direction," the memo notes that "Venezuelan intelligence, military, and police services view TDA as a security threat" and "operate against it in ways that make it highly unlikely the two sides would cooperate in a strategic or consistent way." Those conflicts have included arrests of TDA members by Venezuelan National Guard units and "armed confrontations" between "Venezuelan security forces" and TDA that resulted in "the killing of some TDA members."
The intelligence community "has not observed the regime directing TDA, including to push migrants to the United States," which "probably would require extensive coordination" and "funding between regime entities and TDA leaders" that would have come to light, the NIC says. While "US law enforcement reports claim members of the regime" have "cooperated with TDA by providing financial or materiel support," it adds, "we cannot verify the sources' access," and those reports "do not claim that these figures direct the group."
The memo notes that sources claiming ties between TDA and the Maduro regime could be "motivated to fabricate information." Specifically, "some reports come from people detained for involvement in criminal activity in the United States or for entering the country illegally, which could motivate them to make false allegations about their ties to the Venezuelan regime in an effort to deflect responsibility for their crimes and to lessen any punishment by providing exculpatory or otherwise 'valuable' information to US prosecutors."
In response to the memo's publication, Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard issued a statement that tellingly glided over its import: "It is outrageous that as President Trump and his administration work hard every day to make America safe by deporting these violent criminals, some in the media remain intent on twisting and manipulating intelligence assessments to undermine the president's agenda to keep the American people safe." This controversy over "the president's agenda," however, stems from uncertainty about whether all of the people whom the administration describes as "violent criminals" are in fact TDA members and from Trump's attempt to dodge that issue by invoking the AEA.
Based on Trump's proclamation, the government already has shipped hundreds of alleged gang members off to a notorious prison in El Salvador, where more than 130 of them remained as of late April, according to a lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). The U.S. Supreme Court has unanimously held that foreign nationals covered by the proclamation have a due process right to contest their designation as "alien enemies."
Although the Supreme Court has not yet addressed the proclamation's legality, Fernando Rodriguez Jr., a Trump-appointed federal judge in Texas, ruled last week that "the President's invocation of the AEA through the Proclamation exceeds the scope of the statute and is contrary to the plain, ordinary meaning of the statute's terms." On Tuesday, Alvin Hellerstein, a federal judge in New York, agreed that the AEA "was not validly invoked by the presidential proclamation."
That would still be true even if Trump's claims about the relationship between TDA and the Venezuelan government were accurate. After all, Trump does not claim that Venezuela is waging war on the United States, which would turn all Venezuelans (not just alleged TDA members) into "alien enemies." It makes little sense to identify a "transnational gang" that operates in "loosely organized cells of localized individual criminal networks" (as the NIC describes TDA) as a "foreign nation or government." Nor does it make sense to describe members of that gang as "natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects" of a "hostile nation or government," which is the AEA's definition of "alien enemies." It is likewise untenable to claim that the gang's criminal activities within the United States constitute an "invasion or predatory incursion" in the sense that Congress had in mind when it enacted the AEA.
As the ACLU noted in its lawsuit, Rodriguez noted in his order, and Hellerstein noted in his opinion today, Trump's reading of these key terms is inconsistent with the law's historical context and with contemporaneous usage, including the definition of "invasion" reflected in the Constitution, dictionaries, and correspondence among the Founders. Even if the evidence of collusion between TDA and the Maduro regime were stronger than the NIC thinks it is, Trump's invocation of the AEA would be plainly frivolous.
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Reason has this weird habit where they think the only valid evidence is whatever agrees with their first impressions.
Ignore multiple different memos counter this one sent to the NYT, this is the smoking gun. Ignore all the others.
Also ugnore the AEA puts the decision into the executive. And their summary determination is different.
But sullum has always had this habit of isolating only one side of an argument.
Ignore multiple different memos
Where are the "multiple different memos"? The news article you linked to this morning merely described the ramblings of an anonymous source.
Trust the CIA
Trust low level deep state bureaucrats?
https://justthenews.com/government/security/tren-de-aragua-works-maduro-gabbard-patel-say-after-twisted-illegal-classified
Washington Post cited unnamed “people familiar with the matter” when reporting that “the National Intelligence Council, drawing on the acumen of the U.S.’s 18 intelligence agencies, determined in a secret assessment early this month that the Venezuelan government is not directing an invasion of the United States by the prison gang Tren de Aragua.”
Trust the activists unelected burecrats demands Jeff and sullum.
And...
“the intelligence product found that although there are some low-level contacts between the Maduro government and Tren de Aragua…the gang does not operate at the direction of Venezuela’s leader.”
Just like hallmarks of Russian disinformation.
And the quality of the secret assessment?
“moderate” confidence in their assessment, with “some supporting points put at ‘low’ confidence.”
And..
An anonymous official reportedly told the Times that the assessment “also portrayed the gang as lacking the resources and being too disorganized — with little in the way of any centralized command-and-control — to be able to carry out any government orders”
You probably think ANTIFA is real too. Ha!
Then more parsing.
“says that while a handful of corrupt Venezuelan officials have ties to gang members, that does not amount to the gang’s being under the sway of the government as a whole.”
Then there is gabbard willing to talk on the record.
“The weaponization of intelligence to undermine the President’s agenda is an assault on democracy. Those behind this illegal leak of classified intelligence, twisted and manipulated to convey the exact opposite finding, will be held accountable under the full force of the law [...]Rooting out this politicization of intelligence is exactly what President Trump campaigned on and what Americans overwhelmingly voted for. The Office of the Director of National Intelligence fully supports the assessment that the foreign terrorist organization, Tren De Aragua, is acting with the support of the Maduro Regime, and thus subject to arrest, detention, and removal as alien enemies of the United States.”
And if you prefer anonymous sources...
A senior intelligence official who declined to be named told Just the News this week that there were a number of “facts based on intelligence that the illegal leakers and propaganda media conveniently did not include because it gets in the way of their biased narrative and attempt to deceive the American people.”
“facts based on intelligence that the illegal leakers and propaganda media conveniently did not include because it gets in the way of their biased narrative and attempt to deceive the American people.”
So where are these facts? Where is the concrete evidence that the government of Venezuela is directing the actions of Tren de Aragua?
So far, all we have for the arguments in favor, is the say-so of Trump and his team, and we should just trust him
“The weaponization of intelligence to undermine the President’s agenda is an assault on democracy.
Oh, look how far Tulsi has sold out. Would Tulsi have said those words about, say, Chelsea Manning divulging secrets about Bush's war in Iraq? Would Tulsi have said those words about Edward Snowden's work? Of course not. Divulging state secrets is only an "assault on democracy" when it happens against the Orange God Emperor Himself. Tulsi was always a throne-sniffing fraud.
She opposed same sex marriage…she was always a fraud.
"Divulging state secrets is only an "assault on democracy" when it happens against the Orange God Emperor Himself.Tulsi was always a throne-sniffing fraud"
"She opposed same sex marriage…she was always a fraud"
She's not changed one iota. It's the establishment "left" that has changed and has welcomed imperialist neocon clowns like you two Nazis into it's tent, and with you all your corporatist and totalitarian notions.
Particularly disgusting here is Nazi Jeff's pretense that unelected bureaucrats purposefully undermining an administrations efforts on behalf of the military industrial complex, is the same thing as a whistleblower like Snowden giving evidence of genuine criminality by the exact same bureaucracy.
Jeff never fails to disgust. What a vile, evil creature he is.
"She opposed same sex marriage…she was always a fraud"
Was that back when Obama opposed same sex marriage?
Obama lied to Republicans…I think it’s hilarious!!
Or Hillary?
Jeff doesn't understand leaking classified information is illegal even as he argues the president can't removed clearances from democrats who abuse clearances.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
leaking classified information is illegal
Just like what Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden did, right?
Of course it is illegal. That doesn't *necessarily* mean it is wrong.
Besides, if you had bothered to even read the article, the memo was obtained from a FOIA request.
This is also a funny thing...
This is by no means the first time that the FBI has diverged from other spy agencies on intelligence assessments — the FBI was the first U.S. agency to conclude that COVID-19 likely emerged from a Wuhan lab, even as many other intelligence elements took the opposite view or remained on the fence.
Almost like the bureaucrats thr IC have political concerns.
Almost like the bureaucrats thr IC have political concerns.
And Trump doesn't????
I am completely willing to accept that both sides here are trying to spin the truth for political reasons. So instead, let's find the actual facts that support your case. Where are they?
Here’s something we can celebrate that will make Fatfuck sad…….
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/05/breaking-supreme-court-allows-trump-transgender-troop-ban/
The US Supreme Court on Tuesday allowed the Trump Administration’s transgender military ban to take effect.
“The Supreme Court stayed the lower court’s preliminary injunction on the transgender military ban pending appeal in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.
The high court made the decision 6-3. Liberal Justices Sotomayor, Kagan and Jackson would have denied the application.“
Then a politician in Venezuela has this to say.
“Nicolas Maduro, the tyrant oppressing Venezuela, also leads the criminal organizations Tren de Aragua and the Cartel de los Soles,” Machado and Urrutia said in a joint statement, according to Apple and Google Translate. “The TdA's rise in Venezuelan prisons, and its rapid expansion throughout the Americas, is explained by its ties to the autocratic and criminal regime headed by Maduro.”
Okay great, Machado and Urrutia also think that the government of Venezuela is directing the actions of Tren de Aragua. What is THEIR evidence?
Then a team of Venezuelan expats states the same.
https://archive.is/a36TL
Jesse, don’t you understand? Only leftist sources that support MAPedo Fatfuck’s open borders fever dreams counts as real evidence. He will parse, split hairs, and attempt all manner of sophistry against anything you present.
Former CIA station chief
Gary Berntsen — a former CIA station chief whose book "Jawbreaker" describes himself as “the CIA’s key commander coordinating the fight against the Taliban forces around Kabul” in 2001 — reportedly told the Herald that 300 of the Venezuelan gang members sent to the U.S. had received paramilitary training inside of Venezuela.
“The Venezuelan regime has assumed operational control of these guys [Tren de Aragua] and has trained 300 of them; they have given them paramilitary training, training them to fire weapons, on how to conduct sabotage, how to use crypto,” Berntsen told the outlet. “They have given them all like a four- to six-week course. They put these 300 guys through that course and that they were deploying them into the United States to 20 locations, to 20 separate states.”
Oh so NOW who is sucking CIA cock? Why should we believe this CIA guy, as opposed to the CIA guys who are now saying the opposite?
You’re so incredibly dishonest.
Then.
Ivan Duque, the former president of Colombia, said in January, “It's as simple as this: The Aragua Train is a criminal organization serving the Cartel of the Suns in Venezuela, that is, Maduro's narco-dictatorial regime. The Aragua Train killed [Venezuelan dissident Ronald] Ojeda in Chile, and everything points to Miraflores [the head office of the president of Venezuela]. Similarly, the Aragua Train is advancing criminal activities in the U.S. Simply put, Maduro's narco-dictatorial regime is exporting violence, crime, and drug trafficking.”
But who are you gonna trust? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The Chilean issue was blacked out in the leaked memo though. Lol.
Did you oppose the Iraq War like Gabbard??
Do you fuck children like Shrike? Or are you Shrike?
7000 of our best and brightest sacrificed to slaughter innocent Muslims…so totes worth it! 😉
So "yes" and "yes", shit-stain?
At least two dudes can’t get married…so voting for Bush and sacrificing 7000 soldiers was totes worth it!! 😉
So you fuck kids. Got it.
You are the Bush administration, Yellowcake.
The whole fucking Iraq war, right here, endorsed Team Kamala.
Bush Administration VP Dick Cheney
Bush Administration United States Attorney General Alberto González (Yay, waterboarding)
Bush Administration Homeland Security Advisor Steve Abbot
Bush Administration Director of the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency Kenneth Adelman
Bush Administration Secretary of the DHS Richard C. Barth
Bush Administration Director of the National Security Council Christopher Barton
Bush Administration National Security Council Legal Adviser John Bellinger
Bush Administration Special Assistant to the President Kenneth Bernard
Bush Administration Special Assistant to the Secretary of Defense Mark E. Bitterman
Bush Administration Deputy National Security Advisor Robert D. Blackwill
Bush Administration Assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force William Bodie
Bush Administration DND Deputy General Counsel Christian M.L. Bonat
Bush Administration Assistant Secretary of State Richard Boucher
Former FBI Assistant Director Greg Brower
Bush Administration Chief Presidential Speechwriter Christopher Buckley
Bush Administration Deputy Secretary of State Jack C. Chow
Bush Administration Assistant to the President & Deputy to the Chief of Staff James W. Cicconi
Bush Administration Deputy Chief of Staff to Secretary of State Peggy Cifrino
Bush Administration Counselor of the Dept. of State Eliot A. Cohen
Bush Administration General Counsel, Dept. of the Army Benedict S. Cohen
Clinton Administration Former Secretary of Defense William Cohen
Bush Administration Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense Joseph J. Collins
Bush Administration Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs Cindy Courville
Bush Administration National Security Council Legal Advisor Stephen W. DeVine
Bush Administration Secretary of the Air Force Michael Donley
Bush Administration Acting Under Secretary of the Army Raymond F. DuBois
Bush Administration Senior Executive Service Dept. of Defense Martha E. Duncan
Bush Administration Under Secretary of Defense Eric S. Edelman
Bush Administration Former Deputy Assistant to the President Richard A. Falkenrath
Bush Administration Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs
Jendayi E. Frazer
Bush Administration Deputy Assistant to the Vice President Aaron L. Friedberg
Bush Administration NSA Director of Counterterrorism William Gaches
Bush Administration Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Janice Gardner
Bush Administration Acting Attorney General of the United States Stuart M. Gerson
Bush Administration Under Secretary of State James K. Glassman
Bush Administration Deputy National Security Advisor to the Vice President Jon D. Glassman
Bush Administration Director of State Dept, Policy Planning David Gordon
Bush Administration Director of the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency Michael V. Hayden
Bush Administration Counsel, President’s Intelligence Oversight Board Seth Hurwitz
Bush Administration Acting Attorney General of the United States Peter Keisler
Bush Administration Assistant Secretary of State James A. Kelly
Bush Administration Under Secretary of Defense Kenneth J. Krieg
Bush Administration Deputy Administrator United States Agency for International Development James R. Kunder
Bush Administration Commander, United States Personnel Information Systems Command George Landis
Bush Administration Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary in the State Dept. Steven R. Mann
Bush Administration Deputy Under Secretary of the Army John W. McDonald
Bush Administration General Counsel, U.S. Information Agency Alberto Mora
Bush Administration Associate Deputy Attorney General Kenneth Mortensen
Bush Administration Director of National Intelligence and Former Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte
Bush Administration Secretary of the Navy Sean O’Keefe
CIA Chief of Station William R Piekney
Bush Administration National Security Advisor Daniel M. Price
Bush Administration White House Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board Vice Chairman Alan Charles Raul
Bush Administration Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency Director Victor Reis
Bush Administration Deputy Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security Paul Rosenzweig
HW Bush Administration Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense Charles O. Rossotti
Bush Administration State Dept. Deputy Director of Policy Planning Kori Schake
Bush Administration Deputy Under Secretary of Defense Wayne Schroeder
Bush Administration Senior Director, National Security Council Staff and Ambassador to the International Atomic Energy Agency Gregory L. Schulte
Bush Administration Senior Director, National Security Council Staff John Simon
Bush Administration Senior Director, National Security Council Staff Stephen Slick
Bush Administration Deputy Secretary of Defense and Ambassador to NATO William H. Taft
Chief of Staff, Dept. of Homeland Security Miles Taylor
Bush Administration Deputy Attorney General Larry D . Thompson
Bush Administration Principal Deputy Under Secretary of Homeland Security Jack Thomas Tomarchio
Bush Administration Assistant Secretary of Defense John K. Veroneau
Director of Threats, Ballistic Missile Defense Organization Thomas G. Ward, Jr.
Bush Administration Principal Deputy Director, State Dept Policy Planning Matthew C. Waxman
Bush Administration Counselor of the Dept. of State Philip Zelikow
Bush Administration Deputy Secretary of State Robert B. Zoellick
HW Bush Administration Commander of the 24th Infantry Division in Iraq Major General McCaffrey
Republicans in Congress voted Lizard Cheney into leadership in January 2021!! Kamala didn’t promote neocon policies while Republicans in Congress truly believed Cheney and Crenshaw would return the GOP to neocon warmongering after Trump lost in 2020.
Well, then it's a good thing KamKam didn't win, then, isn't it?
Former colonel in Venezuelan army.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tren-aragua-ideological-terrorists-disguised-gang-warns-former-military-officer
Great, this again just represents the say-so of some guy who was imprisoned by Maduro. Again where is the evidence? There needs to be more than just hot air from people saying this or that. Do you not understand this?
You WANT it to be true because it validates Trump's power grab.
Fatfuck, you will shout down a mountain of evidence while screaming ‘where is the evidence”. Because you’re disingenuous, and want open borders at any cost.
Always the "open borders" strawman, since you have nothing intelligent to say, or nothing of anything to say.
But there's hope!! You too can indeed learn to be a rational, objective, non-tribalist thinker - someone actually capable of criticizing Trump in some cases, and praising him in others. Yes, BOTH are possible!! I'm rooting for you.
I'm rooting for you to fuck off and die.
It's not a strawman you retarded fuck, it's what he actually advocates for.
I mean all the ecidence, actual evidence here, is against yours sullims and jeffs deep state leak talking points dumdum.
Glug glug glug…hiccup!
How dry I am!
Fatfuck has advocated for open borders for years. and he is proven liar. Like you.
Univision story on Maduros nephew working with tda.
https://www.univision.com/noticias/narcotrafico/ejecuciones-y-bombas-espeluznantes-detalles-en-los-chats-de-los-sobrinos-de-maduro-condenados-a-18-anos
Jesse has this weird habit of slobbing Trump’s knob like corn on the cob.
It is so funny how much you guys love deep state leaks while ignoring actual evidence.
Ever think you guys are the bad guys buddy?
Imagine saying not being ignorant means you're a Trump cultist lol.
Fucking retards United under the dem banner.
4 of you commenting against actual evidence. 4 of you countering any of it. Just demanding it be ignored as you slobber to the dem government bureaucracy.
Do you ever criticize anything Trump does?
I see this is the common theme for the retards on the left here.
Ignore the dozen or so examples posted here and trust blindly in deep state bureaucrats.
Amazing how none of you can actually make an intelligent argument on what makes this leaked memo correct.
So because you're a retarded leftists, the rest of us have to blindly trust the unelected IC?
JS;dr
JS;dr
Are these the same people that worked on the Steele dossier, the ones that falsified testimony for impeachment, the ones that signed the Hunter Laptop memo, the ones that rounded up J6ers for parading, the ones that investigate PTAs for questioning child genital mutilation and grooming or some new nest of traitors you're sucking off because they're part of the Marxist Resistance?
They went directly to the NYT, at least alerting them to the memo. So you can tell it is legit.
Trump’s own appointee, Rodentstain, appointed Mueller. Oops.
Gee, swamp critters ended up lying about Trump! And the pile of shit SBF is surprised!
Fuck off and die, asshole
Trump appointed him.
Sevo contributing his useless pro Trump TDS. A truly demented cult member.
What’s crazy is there was definitely a story about people sabotaging Trump in 2017…and it was obviously Bush Republicans doing the sabotaging! And then when Lizard Cheney endorses Kamala they just say she’s a “Democrat”…who Republicans in Congress voted in to leadership in January 2021!?! But by just focusing their hate on Democrats it solidifies tribalism because Trump by his own standards failed in his first term…but the right wing echo chamber still managed to successfully blame it on Democrats or the “deep state”. The Deep State is very obviously Bush Republicans! So drive up the negatives of your opponents and you don’t have to worry about whether your tribe was successful or not.
Hey sarc!
An Intelligence Memo Casts Further Doubt on Trump's Nonsensical 'Hunter Biden Laptop' Story
An Intelligence Memo Casts Further Doubt on Trump's Nonsensical 'Lab Leak' Theory
An Intelligence Memo Casts Further Doubt on Trump's Nonsensical 'Wiretap' Scandal
Need I go on?
You PervFectly forgot "An Intelligence Memo Casts Further Doubt on Trump's stolen erections theories".
https://reason.com/2023/10/20/how-sidney-powells-plea-deal-could-hurt-trump-in-the-georgia-racketeering-case/
https://reason.com/2022/02/11/sidney-powell-disowns-her-kraken-saying-she-is-not-responsible-for-her-phony-story-of-a-stolen-election/ (Yet another Powell article)
https://reason.com/2021/03/23/sidney-powell-says-shes-not-guilty-of-defamation-because-no-reasonable-person-would-have-believed-her-outlandish-election-conspiracy-theory/
Sidney Powell Says She’s Not Guilty of Defamation Because ‘No Reasonable Person’ Would Have Believed Her ‘Outlandish’ Election Conspiracy Theory
Which particular lies are you wanting to hear and believe today, hyper-partisan Wonder Child?
WHY do you evil people love it SOOOOO much when lawyers LIE in court? Is it the lawyers that You love, the lies, or both?
Conspiracy theories or cunt-spermacy theories; which appeal to ye the MOISTEST?!?!? And twat does Spermy Daniels say about tit all? Are Ye Perfectly titillated yet?
Spermy Daniels for Der TrumpfenFarter-Fuhrer’s new VEEP!!! Shit is TWAT too late to CHANGE the VEEP! Government Almighty already KNOWS that The TrumptatorShit will need MANY-MANY (affordable) criminal defense lawyers, and Spermy Daniels can attract MANY “Pro Boner” lawyers!!!
Cmon now. Are you going to distrust the same agency that had to fire 100 people this year for sex chats on IC databases?
These institutions are crawling with activists.
No no, we should trust the guy who paid hookers for sex, who cheated on every single one of his wives, who wanted to grab women by the pussy, and who has the morals of an alley cat. Yes, that's the guy we can trust!
Wow, you’re desperate. That figures, as you already lost the argument.
You’re also a hypocrite. As you are as scumbag who always lands on the side of pedophiles on any issue, and wants to give sex predators from a round the world unlimited rights to come here, and cum inside small children.
Wow... and you call the other guy desperate?
One more lefty shit claiming some intelligence. And failing.
Quit samefagging your posts, Jeffy. You're not tricking anyone.
What did he say that was wrong? Or are you a Jeff pedo too?
Yes faggot, because he is desperate. Like you.
Have you even CONSIDERED suicide.
Cuntsorevaturds making friends, gathering votes, and influencing people by... PEDDLING KOOL-AID AND SUICIDE!!! How's it workin' for ya, servant and serpent of the Evil One?
EvilBahnFuhrer, drinking EvilBahnFuhrer Kool-Aid in a spiraling vortex of darkness, cannot or will not see the Light… It’s a VERY sad song! Kinda like this…
He’s a real Kool-Aid Man,
Sitting in his Kool-Aid Land,
Playing with his Kool-Aid Gland,
His Hero is Jimmy Jones,
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jim-Jones
Loves death and the dying moans,
Then he likes to munch their bones!
He’s truly, completely a necrophiliac,
His brain, squirming toad-like, is REALY, really whack!
Has no thoughts that help the people,
He wants to turn them all to sheeple!
On the sheeple, his Master would feast,
Master? A disaster! Just the nastiest Beast!
Kool-Aid man, please listen,
You don’t know, what you’re missin’,
Kool-Aid man, better thoughts are at hand,
The Beast, to LEAVE, you must COMMAND!
A helpful book is to be found here: M. Scott Peck, Glimpses of the Devil
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1439167265/reasonmagazinea-20/
Hey EvilBahnFuhrer …
If EVERYONE who makes you look bad, by being smarter and better-looking than you, killed themselves, per your wishes, then there would be NO ONE left!
Who would feed you? Who’s tits would you suck at, to make a living? WHO would change your perpetually-smelly DIAPERS?!!?
You’d better come up with a better plan, Stan!
This is actually funny.
Team Trump wanted to use the AEA because they saw it as a way to rapidly deport people without having to bother with that pesky due process thing. They saw it as a useful tool that just required the barest figleaf of a justification in order to successfully wield that tool. So of course they invented this whole narrative about the government of Venezuela "directing" Tren de Aragula to "invade" the US, because that is what they had to do in order to use the tool they wanted to use.
you lost the due process argument on mslsd this morning
https://x.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1919778856732360908
Oh I am fully aware that the current law as it exists is horribly unjust and unfair. It creates a sham version of 'due process' for migrants that, evidently, permits migrants to be sent to a foreign gulag based on the anonymous testimony of an informant who claimed the migrant was in a gang, and that's all. No one here should be supporting this. I don't support the status quo, I don't support these laws.
The rest of us do, and we’re right. We are also in charge. So slither back under your rock, if you know what’s good for you.
That’s because you’re a bigot.
That all you got fag? ‘Bigot’? We’re right on the law. And I’ll bet you’re a MAPedo Fatfuck sock. Too afraid to confront me directly, you fat grooming bitch?
“Oh I am fully aware that the current law as it exists is horribly unjust and unfair”
Was that your argument before it got overturned Lying Jeffy?
How, exactly, is current immigration law "unjust and unfair"?
It doesn’t match his globalist master’s ideology.
Gee, where do I begin.
For starters, from a libertarian perspective, it violates the right of free association when the government demands a permission slip for a peaceful adult to be able to visit another peaceful adult, with the consent of both parties.
But even if you ignore such a thing:
The current system is hopelessly convoluted. The "line" for certain classes of migrants to be able to legally immigrate here, in the 'usual' way (get a green card, etc.), can be as long as 30 years. Be honest: if the state required you to wait 30 years in line before you could get, say, a driver's license, would you patiently wait in line? Or would you break the law and drive without a license anyway? ESPECIALLY when you know that for SOME people, they can get a driver's license in a much shorter amount of time, say if they have relatives who already have a license, or certain people who have skills in high demand who can 'skip the line' and get a license ahead of everyone else, or rich people can just outright buy a license? From the point of view of the ordinary person, it is quite clear that the entire system is rigged against them. It is no surprise then that they recognize things as such and refuse to recognize the legitimacy of such a rigged system. THAT is why so many people 'apply for asylum'. OF COURSE most of the applicants aren't really fleeing persecution in any meaningful sense. But it is an entirely predictable response to an immigration system that is hopelessly against them.
Furthermore, once migrants are here, they are subject to a standard of justice that is far too low. If you want to require migrants to be on their best behavior while here, then that is fine. But the standard of proof required to prove that a particular migrant has broken the rules should not be so substantially less than the standard of proof for citizens. Otherwise, what is to stop the government from 'accidentally' declaring you to be a non-citizen and therefore stripping you of the legal protections of citizens? Requiring high burdens of proof for the government in their treatment of migrants, is really for OUR sake as well as for the sake of the migrants.
Why do you even bother with these Nazi fascists? They are awful.
Hey Fatfuck, quit samefagging.
This is actually sarc given his TDS comment above.
While I disagree with your basic premise (we're talking about a bit more than two consenting adults just visiting each other), I appreciate you elaborating. I'll come back later to read through it more carefully
You shouldn’t tease that morbidly obese grooming ,artist like that.
Poor Jeff and Scarborough.
Fatfuck is probably sobbing as he devours his daily 55 gallon drum of Ben & Jerry’s. I hear they’re dedicating a new flavor to him and Shrike. It’s called ‘Pedophile Passion Fruit’.
I love that every single person that is up in arms about the use of this act gets the basic fact wrong about whether or not a war has to be declared.
Der TrumpfenFarter-Fuhrer the udder day (in case you missed shit) said that Witches and Trannies and NON-Spermy-Stormy-Drag-Queen Dancers are ALL pubic enemas, and therefor (even if citizens) need to be, pronto, exported to Puppet Regime titture-torture chambers in El Salvador, without trial!!!
Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard issued a statement that tellingly glided over its import: "It is outrageous that as President Trump and his administration work hard every day to make America safe by deporting these violent criminals, some in the media remain intent on twisting and manipulating intelligence assessments to undermine the president's agenda to keep the American people safe from Witches and Trannies and NON-Spermy-Stormy-Drag-Queen Dancers."
Also:
The Alien Enemies Act should be repealed in its entirety.
Twat?!?? TWAT did ye say?!?!?
If we repeal the Alien Enemas Act, WHO, I say, WHO will PROTECT the pubic from pubic enemas?!?!? AND from illegal sub-humans, trannies, accused “groomers”, abortionists, gays, heathens, infidels, vaxxers, mask-wearers, atheists, dirty hippies, Jews, witches, or, the very WORST of them all, being one of those accused of STEALING THE ERECTIONS OF OUR DEAR LEADER, right, right-wing wrong-nuts? ANY methods are OK, so long as they are used against the CORRECT enemas, am I right?
Nah. Instead, why don’t you eat shit?
Iraq's WMD still MIA.
Fucking establish-libertarians sucking the d of CIA is pathetic.
Just Replace all your words with "Trump must die".
No one here is "sucking the d of CIA". It is about evaluating the evidence and forming a conclusion that is based on facts and reason and logic.
For example, last I checked, the CIA has designated Al Qaeda as a terrorist organization. Are they wrong? If you agree with the CIA on this assessment, does it mean you are "sucking the d of CIA"? No it means that you agree with reality.
If anyone, CIA or otherwise, claims that the government of Venezuela is directing Tren de Aragula to infiltrate the US, then we should evaluate the strength of their evidence and form a conclusion on this basis. If anyone, CIA or otherwise, claims that the government of Venezuela and Tren de Aragula are operating independently of each other, then we should evaluate the strength of their evidence and form a conclusion on this basis. Sound good to you?
So far, the evidence that the government of Venezuela is directing the actions of TdA, are based on the say-so of Trump and his political appointees. The evidence that the two are operating largely independently, are given in the memo above. Which do you think has the stronger case, and why?
"No one here is "sucking the d of CIA".
YOU, Jeffy.
You are sucking the dick of the CIA, and zero surprises because that's what authoritarian fascists like you are compelled to do, and what DNC fifty-centers like you are paid to do.
No one cares what your gaslighting ass thinks.
Just die, you fat lying cunt.
Speaking of WMDs, India and Pakistan are only 1 decision from nuclear war.
Where is this rags peacenik?
Also:
Remember this moment, because it reveals what Team Red really thinks about liberty and justice. Spoiler alert: It's not the same as how libertarians view the concepts of liberty and justice.
Like you would know.
We just need to TRUST in The One Whose Neurons, Glia, and udder so-called "brain" smells are ALL photo-shopped, photo-shipped, gland-or photo-shitted!!!
ALL HAIL THE PHOTO-SHITTED WONDER-BRAINIAC!!!
You’re neither conservative nor libertarian. It’s also entirely possible that you’re not even American. So you opinion is meaningless, much like you.
This is the same "intelligence community" that's missed everything of any importance since the dawn of recorded time? The "intelligence community" that signed onto the Hunter laptop being bogus? The "intelligence community" that killed at least one U.S citizen with LSD but couldn't poison Fidel Castro's cigars? That "intelligence community"?
Hunter’s laptop is a bigger deal than WMDs! Lololol!!
SBF makes light of the Biden crime family! Not at all surprising. Fuck off and die, asshole.
It’s Shrike, thinking this shit is clever.
I think it’s awesome that Hunter conned a billion dollars out of China. Saudi Arabia and Qatar are getting value for their billions by giving billions to the Trump family.
You’re a silly bitch.
They don't miss anything. It's always about plausible deniability.
Some scribbling on the bathroom stall at the local rest stop casts doubt on Trump's policies.
Turns out you are a libertarian for the racism! You voted for McStain over Obama!! Lololololol!!
Turns out you're a slimy pile of lying TDS-addled lefty shit. Fuck off and die, asshole.
I’m pro Trump 2016…I just agree with Trump 2025 that his first term was an unmitigated failure. Biden did a better job implementing America First policies.
Bill Clinton deported more than 12 million illegal aliens, 98% without hearing.
You didn't hear a peep out of the MSM or any judges.
Another idiotic rant from Sullum casts doubt on his claim to be a sentient human being rather than a steaming pile of TDS-addled shit.
Funny how the very same people who belittled and attacked anyone who cited government intelligence are now claiming it’s gospel.
The difference, as always with Trump defenders, is who not what.
Everyone I'm seeing, besides jeff and sullum, is belittling government intelligence. Genuinely confused by this take.
Sarc has a habit of demanding we trust government institutions.
I fear our solution to our recent problems at .gov is to break Trump of his addiction to genocidal zionist baby batter. God… maybe get the man on at least just a glue bag.
Or maybe just deposit all you traitors into landfills.
JS;dr
Speaking of the gobbling of genocidal zionist baby batter, we hear from dear Gaear…. Sir, do you have any intellectually stimulating dialogue to contribute?
Gears Grimy and Stripped; SNOT worth reading! Surely snot worth heeding either!
Can we do a signature match on this report and the Hunter Biden Laptop report? What, too soon?
You trusted the experts…that’s on you! 😉
It was done in secret. Too scared to put their names on it.
So you voted for Biden because of what the experts told you??
Your horse is D E A D .... DEAD.
The Senate already voted on Trumps usage of the Alien Enemies Act and the resolution passed.
If you want change you're going to have to REPEAL the Act and every other Act where a [D] congress handed over the taxation power to the executive. IF you won't do that you're just kicking a dead horse.
Stopping *just* Trump from using Acts Democrats literally wrote and have used for over a century is just more of the same party-partisan witch-hunting.
I am completely fine with repealing the Alien Enemies Act in its entirety. Are you?
Trump did not know if Tren de Arugula is controlled by the Venezuelan government, and does not care. The entire stunt was just an excuse to deport the "bad hombres" without any meaningful due process.
Real libertarians support illegal immigration. Unjust laws deserve to be broken. Who the hell is the government to decide where someone should live? I’ve never seen so many boot licking statists on a libertarian website as I see here on the comment page of reason.com. These guys like Sevo and JesseAZ don’t have anything resembling a libertarian position and just come here on a daily basis to defend illegal power abuses by Trump. These are guys who would gladly lose all their money and declare bankruptcy just to “own the libs” with a disastrous Trump presidency.
Pathetic people. Fake libertarians. Leave this website, fascist creeps.
Lol. Retard sarc got a sock. Still as ignorant and retarded as his original handle.
Open borders is the only way. From a libertarian friend of mine:
MAGAbots and rightwing Libertarians ask me this a lot, thinking its some kind of gotcha: "Are you one of those open borders people?"
Yes, I am proudly 'open borders'. It is the default-and-only-permissible position for anyone who genuinely cares about human liberty.
Does/did anyone seriously think a libertarian framework would allow for a massive government army of unaccountable, amoral blackshirts thugging it up for ICE/CBP, while shitting all over our rights? And this in pursuit of an imagined class of 'criminal' who have harmed zero people? And at taxpayer expense?!?!
I don't give a damn what your fascist-led government has to say about who is allowed to live and work peacefully here. At most, I would tolerate designated points of entry where people are documented for administrative purposes, and to make sure they aren't criminals fleeing legitimate justice in the country of origin.
Also as the only partially coherent basis for government power is the consent of the governed -- and they clearly intend for migrants to be governed *harshly* -- then I'd say the next step is to give migrants BACK the right to vote.
This was a completely routine and uncontroversial state of affairs for the entire colonial period and well into the mid 1800s. This is also why *not once* does the constitution lay out any power for the federal state to control migration. That would have been an insane proposition in 1776, an unthinkable, intolerable power grab against a federated society.
This is just a power the supreme court of the day spun out of nothing. Because they wanted migrants to build their infrastructure and economy -- but not have a say in how their society runs. The restricted immigration position today is as invalid and transparently abusive as it was back then. We are still haunted by it, and it pollutes our thinking terribly.
But then you could invade a country without military force. I think the pre 2020 equilibrium worked but 2020 broke the equilibrium. But America benefited from the illegal immigration because we got a record number of apartments and hotel rooms delivered for very little disruption. Most of the disruption was from young lower class blacks that got PPP cash and then gang wars and Gen X cops retiring early led to an increase in violent crime. If illegals caused crime then the why did the cities with crime waves have relatively low illegal immigration. Oh, and the thugs may have ended up killing each other because violent crime came down a lot in 2024 and it looks like it’s even coming down more in 2025.
Thanks for your comments BSalz3586!!!
I, too, am a mostly-open-borders kind of a humanoid. Others apparently need scapegoats... It is sociobiologically-driven (instinctual) tribalism at work here, for lots of this hatred of the "other"... For immigration as well as for tariffs... We must PUNISH that them thar EVIL sub-human non-Americans!!!!
It's a long read, but 2 web pages may be of interest to you, which discus tribalism and "do-gooder derogation". Please don't let the mention of "Jesus" in one of the web-page titles scare you off. It's not religious stuff here; it is data-driven and rational (with links galore). Please take a look if you have time, at the 2 web pages listed in the below mini-rant...
I for one can’t STAND the idea that a casual reader here of a libertarian news and commenting site would read the vapid and vile comments, and conclude, “Oh, so THAT’s what libertarians are all about!” No, it’s just that REAL libertarians (and VERY few others) still believe in free speech, so the troglodytes come HERE, where their vile lies & vapid insults will NOT be taken down!
The intelligent, well-informed, and benevolent members of tribes have ALWAYS been feared and resented by those who are made to look relatively worse (often FAR worse), as compared to the advanced ones. Especially when the advanced ones denigrate tribalism. The advanced ones DARE to openly mock “MY Tribe’s lies leading to violence against your tribe GOOD! Your tribe’s lies leading to violence against MY Tribe BAD! VERY bad!” And then that’s when the Jesus-killers, Mahatma Gandhi-killers, Martin Luther King Jr.-killers, etc., unsheath their long knives!
“Do-gooder derogation” (look it up) is a socio-biologically programmed instinct. SOME of us are ethically advanced enough to overcome it, using benevolence and free will! For details, see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Do_Gooders_Bad/ and http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/ .
Then they crucified Jesus, 'cause Jesus made them look bad! ALSO because Jesus made them look bad FOR THEIR STUPID, HIDE-BOUND TRIBALISM! "The parable of the Good Samaritan" was VERY pointed, because the Samaritans were of the WRONG tribe, in the eyes of "Good Jews" of the day.
Instead of KILLING Jesus, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., etc., we’d be better off VOTING for these kinds of people! But we will NOT, ’cause they Hurt Our Precious Baby Feelings, by giving tribalism and do-gooder derogation the disrespect that they (and we self-righteous tribalists) SOOO thoroughly deserve!
Ask the indigenous peoples of every country that has been colonized how well open borders worked out for them.
You REALLY think that North American Natives would be better off if Europeans had never immigrated here?
Maybe all of us non-North-American-Natives (with "wrong blood") should go back to where we came from!!! And take ALL of the "tech" with us, that mostly came from European roots!!!
It is amazing watching the really dumb be convinced by open borders Marxists that they are spewing libertarian talking points when in reality they are ignorant retards for marxism.
You call yourself libertarian as you advocate for the taking from some to give to others. Quite cute.
It is funny that your entire ideology allows for the theft of resources while you pretend to support freedom. And couched in an appeal to morality as if you give one cent to the poor or the illegal immigrant.
You're a fucking Marxist. Lol.
Lot ink spent defending the presence of illegal immigrant gang members.
Give the illegal immigrant gang members their "magic papers" and the problem is solved!!!
Twat about the gang members who were members of the "Trumpanzees Gone Apeshit", on 6 January? Since most of them had their magic papers, shit was all OK? Or was shit all OK 'cause THEY WERE OF THE CORRECT POLITICAL TRIBE?