Trump Is Wrong About McKinley's Tariff Legacy
Did the 25th president really make America "very rich through tariffs"? William McKinley might have told you otherwise.

On his first day back in office, Donald Trump praised his new presidential role model, William McKinley, for having "made our country very rich through tariffs." He then signed an executive order re-renaming the highest peak in North America "Mount McKinley."
The 25th president, Trump wrote in the order, "heroically led our Nation to victory in the Spanish-American War. Under his leadership, the United States enjoyed rapid economic growth and prosperity, including an expansion of territorial gains for the Nation. [He] championed tariffs to protect U.S. manufacturing, boost domestic production, and drive U.S. industrialization and global reach to new heights."
Twelve days later, Trump announced (then waffled on) blanket 25 percent tariffs on goods coming from Canada and Mexico. "Anybody that's against Tariffs," he contended on social media, "is only against them because these people or entities are controlled by China, or other foreign or domestic companies. Anybody that loves and believes in the United States of America is in favor of Tariffs."
Who knew that McKinley was controlled by China?
It is true that the self-styled "tariff man"—his political opponents preferred the more derisive "Napoleon of protection"—was the biggest public face of mercantilism during America's high-tariff era of 1870–1912. As a congressman, he wrote what came to be known as the "McKinley tariff" of 1890, and as president he signed another increase in 1897.
But a funny thing happened after the U.S. came out of the Panic (and subsequent four-year depression) of 1893: Goosed by sharp increases in domestic iron and copper production, Americans had too many goods chasing too few consumers. And McKinley himself began agitating to tear down some of those trade barriers.
"What we produce beyond our domestic consumption must have a vent abroad," he said in September 1901 at the Pan-American Exposition in Buffalo, New York. "The excess must be relieved through a foreign outlet, and we should sell everywhere we can, and buy wherever the buying will enlarge our sales and productions, and thereby make a greater demand for home labor. The period of exclusiveness is past," he continued. "The expansion of our trade and commerce is the pressing problem. Commercial wars are unprofitable….If perchance some of our tariffs are no longer needed, for revenue or to encourage and protect our industries at home, why should they not be employed to extend and promote our markets abroad?"
McKinley's presidency was ended by an assassin's bullet the very next day.
Even before his late-life pivot to freer trade, McKinley had long been a champion of reciprocity, i.e., the bilateral, mutually beneficial reduction of targeted, asymmetrical tariffs. Or, as he put it in his first inaugural address, "the opening up of new markets for the products of our country, by granting concessions to the products of other lands that we need and cannot produce ourselves, and which do not involve any loss of labor to our own people, but tend to increase their employment."
In his second term, Trump has demonstrated less enthusiasm for reciprocity than he has for the other two Rs of traditional protectionism, revenue and restriction. Asked last October by Joe Rogan whether he was serious about replacing the federal income tax with tariffs, Trump said, "Yeah, sure. Why not?"—and then engaged in some historical revisionism. "Our country was the richest in the [world], relatively, in the 1880s and 1890s. A president who was assassinated named McKinley—he was the tariff king. He spoke beautifully of tariffs. And then around in the early 1900s, they switched over, stupidly, to frankly an income tax. And you know why? Because countries were putting a lot of pressure on America: 'We don't want to pay tariffs, please don't.' You know they, believe me, they control our politicians."
Trump's account, besides skipping over McKinley's second-term second thoughts, vastly overstates the then-negligible foreign influence on early 20th century American politicians while ignoring the primary motivation for swapping tariffs for an income tax—what could have been called a fourth R, rent seeking.
Put plainly, the tariff system and perennial adjustments thereof was a cornucopia of corruption, putting the gilded in Gilded Age. Far from being a sophisticated manipulation of import/export duties to nurture nascent industries, the tariff schedule was a Christmas tree decorated by special interests.
"The struggle for unearned advantage at the doors of the government tramples on the rights of those who patiently rely upon assurances of American equality," Grover Cleveland wrote in his 1892 letter accepting the Democratic Party's nomination for president. "Every governmental concession to clamorous favorites invites corruption in political affairs by encouraging the expenditure of money to debauch suffrage in support of a policy directly favorable to private and selfish gain. This in the end must strangle patriotism and weaken popular confidence in the rectitude of republican institutions."
Cleveland, the only Democratic president from 1870 through 1912, was also the only before Trump to serve nonconsecutive terms (1885–89, 1893–97). He was anti-corruption, anti-tariff, and anti-imperialist, correctly viewing those three stances as inextricably linked. So boggy was Washington's swamp at the time that Cleveland's core campaign promise of freer trade became riddled with special-interest carve-outs, to the point where the president accused his own party of "perfidy" and "dishonor," and refused to affix his signature to the 1894 tarrif-reduction law.
It was the blatantness of the palm greasing, whether import duties were going up or down, that eventually led to shifting the federal government's main income source away from tariffs. "The sheer extravagance of the public corruption around tariff schedule revisions," economic historian Phillip W. Magness wrote for the Cato Institute in 2023, "came to a head in the late 19th century, eventually leading reformers to call for the abandonment of a tariff-based revenue system."
Trump has great executive latitude to increase or enact tariffs; any tax reduction (let alone abolition), on the other hand, would have to skate through the GOP's razor-thin margin in Congress. He is almost certain to increase protectionism over a first term that saw more than 200,000 individual tariff waivers granted to special-pleading U.S. companies.
Perhaps instead he should listen more to his hero McKinley. "Isolation is no longer possible or desirable," the Tariff Man said the day before he was shot. "We must not repose in fancied security that we can forever sell everything and buy little or nothing."
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>"The excess must be relieved"
Do we have an excess today though?
'Trade deficit' - as meaningless as it may be - would say that no, we do not. Hence why we import a lot and don't export as much. Ie, foreign goods flow in, Dollars flow out.
Voters did recognize an excess of DEI and social justice professionals. Not sure what the international market for those looks like.
It looks great. See south Africa
Well then, let's ramp up the DEI factories! Unless they hit us with tariffs.
The Chinese just produced cheap crap cheaper for the US customers who wanted it.
Trump just recognizes that the Capitalist US can’t compete in fair trade, so he’s coercing and isolating the US like North Korea and to some degree China does.
Look elsewhere for freedom.
This is as good a time as any to change our entire economic system.
Money should only represent transferable work and its value regulated accordingly instead of by the casino concept of a free market.
Products should be recyclable and safe for the environment, designed to last decades being repaired as necessary.
This represents a sustainable economy, one civilized nation’s could agree upon.
The Wild West of greed and waste, capitalism, was always a bad idea.
Trumps trying to dig the US out of the hole it’s in.
…capitalism, was always a bad idea.
Fuck off.
The Nazi is going to Nazi. He got it from Goebbels.
We are socialists because we see in socialism, that is the union of all citizens, the only chance to maintain our racial inheritance and to regain our political freedom and renew our German state...
As socialists we are opponents of the Jews because we see in the Hebrews the incarnation of capitalism, of the misuse of the nation’s goods.
With marching orders like those why would Misek not hate capitalism?
Good quote, and good reminder that all socialists are fucktards, whether they justify it with nationalism or one-world class/race/gender brotherhood.
Oh, and Misek is always a fucktard.
Quote sounds like what the arrogant puppet Trump is saying with Zionists hands so far up his ass they’re working his mouth while his hands are deep in their pockets.
MAGA = Miriam Adelsons Goals Achieved
Quote sounds like what the arrogant puppet Trump is saying with Zionists hands so far up his ass
Misek obviously didn't read the quote. It's Goebbels on Jews, FFS.
Just like his pals Sarcasmic, Chemjeff and Buttplug, he's just here to troll and be retarded.
RM;dr
Unless we have a trade deficit with every other nation on Earth then doing a universal tariff is stupid and economically disastrous. Trump has forgotten history and is doomed to repeat it.
Ok.
That addresses neither the points in the article nor my post - but OK.
Do we NOT have a trade deficit with pretty much every nation, and a global deficit?
Having a trade deficit is not a bad thing, you retarded monkeyfucker. Stop learning economics form Jesse.
Hey alberto! Glad you're still retarded!
Keep up being wrong on every prediction!
You mean the prediction that Trumps going full retard would tank the market? You're so stupid that you are still claiming victory in this disaster. There is no end to the depth of your stupidity.
Kevin Hassett says 50 countries have already reached out to negotiate tariffs down.
This is what scares the globalists the most.
This is what the idiots like sarc don't get. You don't get change by ignoring or accepting bad acts.
Actually he said, “The countries are angry and retaliating...I got a report from the [U.S. Trade Representative] last night that more than 50 countries have reached out to the president to begin a negotiation, but they’re doing that because they understand that they bear a lot of the tariff.”
He didn't say "negotiate tariffs down." We have confirmed retaliation and what may well be negotiation by threatening increased retaliatory tariffs. It's the smart move considering Trump committed to eat the elephant in one bite and markets hemorrhage and support plummets.
…..what may well be negotiation by threatening increased retaliatory tariffs
Bad guesswork in your part.
OK. I'm listening.
Well we have confirmed Vietnam and Taiwan going to zero and nobody has to "reach out and negotiate" to impose retaliatory tariffs. They don't need our permission.
They can use either approach to negotiate, but yeah, what you're saying makes sense.
And by the way, I'm not convinced that this will end well for the US economy. I'm just hoping that it does.
And by the way, I'm not convinced that this will end well for the US economy.
No shit sherlock. The beatings will continue until moral improves or congress grows a spine. Trump will go down in history for turning the Republicans into keynesian protectionists and Democrats into Free marketers. You can't even make this shit up.
So you don't know what keyenesian economics is either. Oddly you support it. Just too dumb to realize it.
Maybe you'll let me borrow your book
It was tariffs that put McKinley in the position to take has eventual change of heart. This is a fluid situation. We can always react to the changing market.
>"If perchance some of our tariffs are no longer needed, for revenue or to encourage and protect our industries at home"
Is this not what Trump is doing? The tariffs were felt to be needed then things changed and they got in the way.
You may not think we should be putting up tariffs but you're not, so far, making a case that McKinley didn't do what Trump is doing.
>Even before his late-life pivot to freer trade, McKinley had long been a champion of reciprocity, i.e., the bilateral, mutually beneficial reduction of targeted, asymmetrical tariffs
>"In his second term, Trump has demonstrated less enthusiasm for reciprocity
Except for the reciprocity he has already demonstrated when other countries have agreed to lower their tariffs (no one seems to mind when other countries have them, just the US) or otherwise to agree to a demand.
Narrative over facts.
Reason really doesn't want to end up with free trade. They are totally invested, like CATO, in asymmetrical trade policies.
Given that a required core value of the modern left is self-hate, pushing for destructive international policies, including trade, should be expected.
No need for destructive international policies, you ignorant goat fuckers will destroy this country all on your own.
It is hilarious watching idiots like you ignore the last 50 years.
How's our debt? How's that welfare system? Both growing quite fast? Weirdly keynesian.
Should be easy to pay back the debt, once we're all broke from you whiny little bitches destroying the economy, right? You little weasel.
Also, you think welfare is bad now, just wait dumbfuck.
I think we can ALM agree it would be nice if Welch went to a party and got killed. You know like wished on others
Welch is just a weak soy-filled coward.
Says the fat ass tough guy from behind his computer
>"Isolation is no longer possible or desirable,"
Because the world is exactly the same? Because the US is to be the world's bitch? Because other countries don't need to stand on their own? Because we must support allies like the UK (jailing people for speech) and France (jailing political threats) - allies that are more like Russia that the US?
> "We must not repose in fancied security that we can forever sell everything and buy little or nothing."
But we haven't been selling anything (nor we're they under McKinley until after the depression). What is there to sell? SaaS? Financial services?
What is really sad is that after Trump destroys the economy, the Leftists will then claim free market economics was a failure.
Yup.
Your side being dishonest about Capitalism.
I’m on the side of people who understand economics. Which means I’m not on the left, or with Trump, because neither have a clue about the subject.
Alas your tribal brain can’t comprehend the previous sentence because to you everyone is either in your tribe or the tribe you hate.
And you confessed by projection that you don’t think for yourself, but instead parrot what your tribal leaders say.
Right. Sure. OK.
Thanks for confirming what I said.
It's too early to be this drunk, trollboy.
Never too early to be economically illiterate as the Trump faithful are.
Getta loada Sarc Junior here.
Ok, fag.
Every time someone insults Sarc and Shrike, brand new names, never before seen here come running to their defense.
How curious. An uncharitable man might suspect sockpuppetry.
A charitable man would offer them a last cigarette before letting the firing squad shoot.
Funny how the cockless leftists are always so cocktail sure.
Yeah, I didn't confirm anything you said above.
You're very eager to project onto others nefarious motives. I can't think for myself? But you end up simping for the authoritarians in your arguments, even though you shouldn't - is it just to be contrary?
Do the leftists / progressives you seem to defend regularly, not blame Capitalism for a litany of woes? Do they not frame every sort of dispute or controversy in terms of economics? Ironically, a subject they have almost zero real-world expertise in?
I am very cordial to you, never a personal attack, which is something of a courtesy that I try to extend to every other commenter, too. But you seem to not appreciate that, and respond with insults. I sincerely hope your day gets better.
I don’t blame capitalism for anything other than creating wealth and eliminating poverty.
And I don’t defend the left. You think I do because you equate criticism of your team as defending the other. Not a surprise since you defend your team by attacking people, not by promoting your team. That’s because your team is intellectually bankrupt and has no defenses other than attacks.
And you have not been cordial at all because you say I’m on a side that lies about capitalism.
You pay more attention to what is said about me than what I actually say.
So fuck you.
Faggot still on his cross.
Get a life you angry drunk.
I don't, I respond to your actual arguments, but you are free to believe what you wish.
I said that the 'side' you seem to reflexively defend makes these insane arguments, not YOU. You also seem to think that I'm on some side, apparently for cheerleading purposes? But I try to look at issues individually and judge them against what is better for individual liberty. Maybe you think that is what you're doing, too, but I disagree.
Ok. I stand corrected about you being cordial. My apologies.
I accept your apology and still disagree with you about some of the other stuff.
Thanks,
Awe, poor sarc.
Sarc doesn't argue for capitalism. What he desires and argues for is closer to economic fascism, controlled and managed trade.
You argue for mercantilism and protectionism, pure and simple. You think it means something else because you are a braindead chicken fucker.
“is it just to be contrary?”
Sarc has literally stated that’s why he’s here.
Ironically it is you idiots interested in calling non free markets a free market as you offshore capital, labor, while increasing welfare to compensate for your policies.
My only disagreement with this is that Both sides, not just Lefties, will blame Capitalism/Free Markets for any and all economic failures, and not their horrendous top-down policies that fuck everything up.
Capitalism, after all, is to blame for everything (haven't you heard?) - from poverty actually increasing (a recent dumb argument on X) to Slavery (I had to sit through a DEI "training" a few years back that confidently made this claim).
Leftist have literally been doing that my entire adult life (if not longer). Why should this be any different?
Leftists: "We demand higher taxes and government control of commerce!"
Trump: "Fine. Here's some more huge tariffs."
Leftists: "We hate taxes and government control of commerce!"
It is telling that Trump and his defenders are so terrible on economics that you make stupid leftists look smart by comparison.
It's telling that Sarcasmic thinks he can opine on economics when he is barely sober enough to count.
He was literally with KMW in raising income taxes to pay off the debt. He has been for years. He doesn't see his hypocrisy.
He continues to want to offshore labor and industry while raising the costs to do both here.
Sarcasmic doesn't "want" anything except to troll and attention whore. If Sarcasmic thought that "Trump and his defenders" changed their minds, he'd be plumping for tariffs and railing against Open Borders tomorrow.
He's principled like that.
Just curious: how long are you going to run with this "you idiots don't understand economics" schtick?
Until you Trump defenders show an understanding of the subject and stop attacking anyone who does.
As it is all I see are a bunch of populist parrots. SGT understands economics and defends Trump on everything else. You could learn from him, but then you’d receive the wrath of Jesse and other attacks dogs. Might even be kicked out of your tribe. Which means you won’t. You will remain willfully ignorant.
Cool story, bro. Do you come up with other imaginary worlds to support your other fantasies?
You could have proved me wrong by showing an understanding of economics, or proved me right by going on the attack.
You chose to attack.
You fucking disingenuous moron. Not only can you barely spell economics, you have yet to demonstrate any understanding yourself.
And it's incredibly ballsy for you to be trying to call out Earth-based for "attacking" when YOU are the one who started shit.
You always pull this, you come here just to troll and fling shit, and the second someone reciprocates you declare yourself the victim and claim that you're being unfairly attacked.
Well fuck you, troll.
Sarc is against reciprocal insults.
Or any form of education.
We need to freeze him out. He likes the attention. Everyone should make him into a grey box for a month and see what happens.
He'd probably kill himself.
Unfortunately, pointing out their own mindblowing stupidity to Sarcasmic and Buttplug is how I get my cheapies. I honestly get schadenfreude from it. It's 20% of the reason I still come here.
Do you come up with other imaginary worlds to support your other fantasies?
Sarckles has a crystal TDS ball that he uses to invent all his crazy predictions, and it has never been right yet, but Sarc's positive that the next one will be bang on.
So your argument is that Trump is giving the leftists what they want, and therefore libertarians should...support him? That's really fucking stupid.
Remember when McKinley got shot in the gut by some lefty radical?
Was the assassin named Luigi, and kinda dreamy?
Thats the cover story. It was really Big Tariff and the mob
"Even before his late-life pivot to freer trade, McKinley had long been a champion of reciprocity, i.e., the bilateral, mutually beneficial reduction of targeted, asymmetrical tariffs."
And isn't that Trump's goal?
Yes, zero tariffs is one of his goals. Another goal is to replace the income tax with modest tariffs. And yet another goal is to protect domestic industries with high tariffs.
So his goals are no tariffs, modest tariffs, and high tariffs.
And his defenders are so incredibly stupid that they don’t see any contradictions in those goals.
Seeing as 99% of the time you're making up Trump's goals out of your fervid and biased imagination, I'd say Trump's defenders think you're the one who's dishonest and incredibly stupid.
He doesn't make it up. It is literally what MSNBC said a few days prior. Have caught him quite a few times.
Sarc doesn’t have any ideas of his own. The alcohol dissolved the part of his brain that might allow him to do that.
"You all are stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid!"
Stop putting yourself down.
Ha ha, just kidding.
Reason continues to be retarded even on the topics they are most obsessed with.
Retarded Trump defenders see no contradictions in his contradictory goals.
"You all are retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded, retarded!"
Mushroom!
Sarcasmic!
Ideas™ !
What do you want from a child-beating drunk?
At least this child only exists in his imagination.
No one would ever reproduce with Sarc. If he’s even capable of of impregnating anyone.
That's the question. What is Trumps goal?
Is it true "free" trade where there are no tariffs? That's unlikely to happen as other countries have their own protectionist aims.
Is it to eliminate US trade deficits with specific countries measured in value terms? That, too, is unlikely if not logically/mathematically impossible. For example, the US imports goods/services to support 330M people and a $30T economy, Canada imports goods/services to support 40M people and a $2.2T economy.
Multiple other countries are already agreeing to no tariffs. Trump even gave this offer his first term.
They have their own protectionists aims - that is true. It's also why Trump put up the tariffs. To cause them enough pain that they'll rethink those aims.
Will it work? Who knows. But if you don't try nothing will happen.
"Trump Is Wrong About McKinley's Tariff Legacy"
Thank goodness. For a moment I was worried that JD Vance was wrong about McKinley's tariff legacy.
JD Vance is always wrong.
BTW, how's the Resist! movement doing in the Great White North? You guys changing vacation plans from Florida to Havana Disney?
At least ML won’t be effected by the liquor tariffs since his poison of choice is maple whine.
Ideas™ !
I won't be affected by liquor tariffs because I'm not a drunken piece of shit.
This will shock and amaze someone like you, but sometimes I let several months go by without having alcohol. I don't buy alcohol except socially at restaurants.
Wrap your head around that one, drunky.
Maybe if you had a drink every once in a while, you would be much less of a raging prick.
Did you buy a discount box of socks?
Did you pull your head out of your ass yet?
That's certainly a Sarcasmic-tier comeback.
As somebody who devotes so much time to the man, I have no doubt you hear him in your head, rent-free, every day. Sad
Sarc sock defends sarc. Totally not a sarc sock.
I thought it was KAR, but the "rent free" bit is definitely Sarc-like.
Maybe if you had a drink every once in a while, you would be much less of a raging prick.
Probably not the smartest retort to come from a white knight for an actual wife-beating, physically abusive drunk. You should probably consider who you're valorizing when you mount his defense.
As a dishonest piece of shit, nobody here listens to the stupid shit you say. You lie about everybody here that disagrees with you anyway, even they try to do it respectfully. Anybody who spends any time here at all knows that. Grow up you whiny little canuck man baby.
Sarc like projection for totally not a sarc sock.
Not sarc but why the fuck does it matter? You two are worried it's not the same guy that thinks you're both a couple of asshole crybabies? Seriously, what's one more.
nobody here listens to the stupid shit you say
Lol, this thread alone proves more people listen to me and have cordial conversations than you, Sarc. It also proves nobody likes you.
So much of the stupid shit you say relies on nobody reading anything else in the thread here.
How? I only see the same 5 or 6 assholes interacting with you every day and they're all probably you. Grow up.
"McKinley's presidency was ended by an assassin's bullet the very next day." That seems like an overreaction. [Yes, I know Czolgosz shot him for other reasons, not the tariff.]
For annexing Puerto Rico McKinley should be dug up and shot again.
Also occupying the Philippines and betraying the independence movement.
WSJ ---- Plant construction halted due to tariffs
Trump’s tariff announcement threw a wrench into factory builders’ plans—and complicates a years long government effort to reinvigorate U.S. manufacturing. Companies are double-checking the numbers on planned factories, or halting them altogether.
...
Tariff-swollen building costs helped to kill a $300 million plastics recycling plant in Erie, Pa., that had been in the works for four years. International Recycling Group, helmed by CEO Mitch Hecht, said Thursday it was canceling the factory partly because new duties on material and imported machinery had created “expectations of substantially higher project development costs than anticipated.
..
An industrial chiller produced in a U.S. factory might contain wire from China, steel from Canada, pipes from India, harnesses and fan coils from Mexico, motors from Germany, copper from Peru and electronics from Korea—which could be subject to an array of tariffs, according to Skanska.
https://www.wsj.com/economy/trade/companies-building-new-factories-brace-for-higher-costs-eadf7db6?mod=hp_lead_pos6
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
"Partly"? What is the full reason? Perhaps plastics recycling was never economic, and Democratic/green compulsion (and money) evaporated?
4 years in the planning stage means they didn’t have any money.
Why would a company spend five years and billions of dollars on a factory when their comparative advantage will likely be eliminated when the Democrat who replaces Trump ends his tariffs.
That would be damn stupid.
The tariffs weren't known and hadn't even happened when they cancelled the plant, but somehow "Tariff-swollen building costs helped to kill a $300 million plastics recycling plant".
How retarded do you two gullible morons have to be to swallow this?
How gullible? 11
A lot of retard liberals have been making this claim of already closed businesses before tariffs even occur.
I knew that the tariffs were on their way before they were imposed. Maybe you did too. So why wouldn't the people building this recycling plant. Do you think other people don't have access to the same information you and I do?
Did you know, "Bill"?
Did you know enough to suddenly decide throw away a $300 million dollar plant on the possibility that Trump wasn't bluffing? A plant who's construction wouldn't feel the supply chain effects for at least another six months, probably September-October.
Tariffs that Trump has already made conditional on those countries dumping their own tariffs and one-sided trade practices, which isn't a unlikely prospect?
The whole thing is a bullshit excuse from top to bottom, and only the most exquisitely stupid and credulous would fall for it.
Lol. Even when the issues with their beliefs are pointed out they consist.
Did you try actually reading up on recycling and how most cities now just toss recycling into landfills because China stopped taking the trash? It hasn't been profitable for over a decade?
Or did you just latch onto this idiocy because of feels?
LOL too funny.
Team Red: "Trump can just threaten tariffs and cause other countries (Israel) to change their behavior in ways that I do like! That is why Trump is such a brilliant 9-D chess master!"
Also Team Red: "How could companies change their behavior in ways that I don't like when Trump merely *threatens* tariffs? He didn't impose any tariffs yet! Clearly their rationales are all lies!"
Team Jeffy: "If I say it with a sneer then people will think it's wrong."
Also Team Jeffy: "If I say it with a sneer then people will think it's there's incongruity."
Jeffy just acknowledged that the threat of tariffs can cause countries to change their own tariff regimes, and that Trump's tariffs haven't really taken effect yet.
But somehow the retard is trying to pretend that these two valid and different facts are in conflict and incongruous with each other. The trick to arguing like Lying Jeffy is to engage in a level of sophistry that wouldn't fool a baby.
these two valid and different facts are in conflict and incongruous with each other.
No, that is you and Jesse. Somehow, when Trump's tariff threats - not actual tariffs, just the threats - cause some people to behave in a manner that you like, you praise the wisdom of Trump. But when those very same threats cause some people to behave in a manner that you don't like - you know, like canceling a deal to build a recycling facility in Pennsylvania - then you claim that the threats didn't really change THEIR behavior, that there is some hidden motive, and that really they are lying by blaming the tariffs that haven't even taken effect yet! Isn't that right?
You're not even making any sense, Lying Jeffy. Do you think you have some sort of magic keyboard that instantly erases everything else posted here beforehand so that your gaslighting nonsense and pathetic attempts at redirection stand on their own?
You didn’t know shit.
But on the off chance you did, you should share the powerball numbers for Wednesday, oh Great Kreskin!
WSJ communist editorial board:
U.S. Tariffs Make Xi Jinping’s Day
Trump’s global trade war is a strategic gift to the Chinese President.
...
President Trump’s across-the-board tariffs will change the world order in many ways, and one winner is already emerging: Xi Jinping. The Chinese President has had an excellent week.
....
What a fabulous change in fortunes for the Chinese leader. Mr. Trump has taken an ax to the economic cords that were binding the rest of the world into an economic and strategic bloc to rival Beijing—and at precisely the moment many countries finally were starting to re-evaluate their economic relationships with China.
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/xi-jinping-china-u-s-tariffs-donald-trump-trade-war-europe-canada-9dd99d61?mod=opinion_lead_pos1
#Donnie=Loser
turd, the ass-wipe of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Yeah, China losing its biggest customer by a magnitude of ten, was such a gift for China who is already tariffed to hell and back by the EU.
The sheer stupidity of the arguments you post is becoming a wonder of the world.
China losing its biggest customer by a magnitude of ten
I think you're probably right that this is bad for China in the short term, but it is relatively worse for the US from a world hegemony point of view. For Trump to take on the whole world in a trade war, rather than uniting allies against China, means the rest of the world, not (literally) subject to a charismatic, raving moron, will continue to move toward the benefits of free trade, ever more intertwined with China. The US will be left behind.
This is the classic strong man mistake: overconfidence and taking on too much, making too many enemies.
But, 4 years is probably not long enough for this to happen and I don't think MAGA will survive this. Gavin Newsome's administration will drop this idiocy in exchange for other idiocy.
I think Trump will back off though.
It will be bad for China in any term, near or long. Without easy access to intellectual property for them to steal, they might actually need to spend money on R&D again and if there is one thing Communist countries aren't great at it's innovation.
The United States can use other low labor cost countries to produce things in, almost certainly with better intellectual property protections, but China will have a hard time keeping up technologically without outright piracy that they've been enjoying for decades.
In essence, it would be short term hurt for America and long term decline for China.
It's also amusing that you think anyone could possibly get the EU to go along against China. They can't even unite against Russia which is right on their doorstep. I also couldn't give fewer fucks about American hegemony.
Lastly, free trade with China does not exist nor is it likely it will exist in our lifetimes. I can't even fathom someone thinking trade with China is in any way free, or that they are remotely good actors in the trade sphere. We have at least 50 years of examples to draw from on their trade duplicity, and several thousand years of examples of their serfdom status. Recall that China literally stole plans for U.S. nuclear weapons. Does that sound like a good trade partner?
"if there is one thing Communist countries aren't great at it's innovation"
Nuh-uh! They just organize central committees and schedule 10 innovations as part of the next 5 year plan. Of course, those innovations need to support Party principles.
Of course, those innovations need to support Party principles.
Yeah, you nailed that one on the head. This is one of the many reasons C&C economies suck. They have to conform to the ruling parties expectations, not reality.
Without easy access to intellectual property for them to steal,
How will tariffs change their access to IP?
The United States can use other low labor cost countries to produce things in
Preventing this is the whole point of this trade war. If we can do this my whole point is moot because Trump failed.
China will have a hard time keeping up technologically without outright piracy that they've been enjoying for decades.
Again, why would this be the case?
It's also amusing that you think anyone could possibly get the EU to go along against China
I never said anyone could, only that it's necessary to win a trade war with China.
Lastly, free trade with China does not exist
Well how about if we use economists' definition of free trade in stead of Jesse's definition?
1. iPhone's might not be made in China if tariff's make them just as expensive as they would be if they were made here. Just an example. If the factory isn't in China, they can't demand the IP owner disclose their technology.
2. If this is a trade war to you, then by your measure we've always been in a trade war. Tariff's are not new, nor are they unique to the United States. Trump may have a goal of reshoring industry, and if so China is the obvious elephant in the room in particular.
3. China is a centrally planned economy and it's not a new thing why those are inefficient and tend to fail without being propped up from outside.
4. Untrue. If China wants to continue to do business in Europe they will be faced with tariffs there as well on top of things like the VAT. Europe is not particularly free trade either, and only looks like it compared to places like...China.
5. When dealing with a command and control economy, free trade is impossible. Put forward any definition you like and it will be just as true. This last point makes me wonder if you have any economics background whatsoever because it's literally taught in Econ101 across the country.
Lastly, I note you didn't bother to address the fact China stole nuclear weapon secrets from us. Curious.
China will stop making iphones? OK this is a ridiculously brazen assumption.
Yes, we've always been in a trade war, but this is a major escalation.
When dealing with a command and control economy, free trade is impossible. Put forward any definition you like and it will be just as true. This last point makes me wonder if you have any economics background whatsoever because it's literally taught in Econ101 across the country.
Your condescending retort is not correct. Econ 101 is usually microeconomics and even econ professors discuss "free trade" with China. That’s hardly a standard lesson and an incredibly poor reason to doubt my econ knowledge considering we're in an informal discussion using terminology the way it's universally applied.
Lastly, I note you didn't bother to address the fact China stole nuclear weapon secrets from us. Curious
Because it's irrelevant to our discussion.
Time to end the war decisively. Trump’s dropping the big one.
If it’s just as expensive to make them there and ship them here, it’s absolutely possible that Apple decides to move manufacturing out of China. (I think that’s what BYDOB was driving at.!
That’s not brazen or ridiculous, just a big IF we don’t know the outcome of.
I don't know who you studied economics under, but if they told you trading with a C&C economy is 'free trade' they lied to you. That is a fact, not supposition.
I note that you want to argue if it's taught in Econ101 or 102, and I'd wager that's because you know you have absolutely no basis for claiming trade with China is in any way 'free trade' so you must concentrate on a point with no basis on the central argument.
For what it's worth, I was certainly taught this in Econ101 and most other schools do teach the fundamentals of free trade, comparative advantage, and other macro concepts even in 101 despite the fact that 102 is where those concepts are fleshed out and drilled into.
Let me ask you this, then. What were you taught in Econ101? Was it seriously never brought up even once?
Econ 101 was a long time ago. I only remember microeconomics was 101, macro was 102.
you have absolutely no basis for claiming trade with China is in any way 'free trade'
Fine whatever, call it what you want, I mean trade between private individuals without tariffs or quotas. By your definition free trade is impossible.
Here's Gene Epstein, a economist, arguing the same thing I am. https://reason.com/podcast/2020/02/07/is-donald-trumps-trade-policy-with-china-good-for-americans-a-soho-forum-debate/
Free trade is indeed literally defined as such and within that definition is the failure of C&C economies to engage in free trade.
C&C economies dictate trade which in no universe can be interpreted as 'free trade' in any form.
Free trade is absolutely possible, just not with countries like China. A more obvious definition of managed trade would be difficult to find. Trying to pass that off as 'free trade' is so horribly misguided that it means you simply don't know what free trade is, don't know what the concept of free trade is, and wouldn't recognize it if it punched you in the face.
Econ 101 was a long time ago. I only remember microeconomics was 101, macro was 102.
*facepalm*
So when an economist talks about unilateral free trade, they "simply don't know what free trade is, don't know what the concept of free trade is, and wouldn't recognize it if it punched [them] in the face," because it's not technically 100% unfettered, for all purposes and all time for all parties free?
Because it seems to me like you're hung up on a technical definition of free trade you apparently picked up in econ 101 that precludes you from engaging in sensible discussions because you need to constantly point out this pedantic detail that the rest of the world doesn't abide by. You act like there's a black and white difference between China's economy and ours, but we're both on different parts on a spectrum between capitalism ans socialism.
So at what % socailism does free trade become impossible, and how do you score that percentage?
Think we need to see this strategy in the context of Trump's larger international plans. He wants to move away from the current post WW2 unipolar world wherein the US foots the bill for western hegemony. He's not just telling the Europeans that he wants reciprocal tariffs. He's telling them we're done fighting their border wars for them. He sees a multipolar world where US influence dominates our hemisphere including the great frozen north. Ultimately he he will probably stand down in Asia and the middle east. That does not mean we won't trade internationally. But using trade to further the political ambitions of foreign actors is not America First.
I don't know. He seems to be overly involved with the middle east, aiding Israel, bombing Yemen, threatening Iran. The Greenland thing is silly, they're an ally. Possessing the island is an attempted territory grab for his ego because we can do what we want militarily now.
Drop the tariffs, the middle east and Greenland and I'm on board.
"I think Trump will back off though."
I hope he will. They've already fucked the Canadian election and I'm living on the hardest hit side.
Sometimes I worry that in attacking Shrike and Sarcasmic's bullshit links and Reason's dubious arguments, people think I'm in favour of the tariffs. I'm not.
...Although I'm not against a tariff war if it leads to the elimination of tariffs and subsidies.
Sometimes I worry that in attacking Shrike and Sarcasmic's bullshit links and Reason's dubious arguments, people think I'm in favour of the tariffs. I'm not.
lol, sorry, you don't get to change the rules now. For years and years you and your team argued that if you constantly criticize one team, that means you are a shill for the other team. You don't get to declare yourself to be above it all now. You're a shill for Team Red and everyone here knows it.
Lol, sorry, you don't get to make the rules now, shithead. I was talking to Quicktown, now go fuck yourself, shill.
people think I'm in favour of the tariffs. I'm not.
Well I sure did. I'm glad to learn you are an ally on this issue.
I don't think tariffs are the biggest libertarian issue by a long shot, but outside of a being a nuke in a deliberate trade war, I don't think they help native industry anymore than subsidies do.
If Trump's tariffs are only used to force other countries to remove theirs, and then removed, then they'll be a good thing. But if instead they're used to artificially support native industry, then they'll become toxic like an all-junk food diet.
This is where I land mostly.
Me too, actually. I'm zealously opposed now because I don't think that's what Trump is doing (because of my TDS no doubt).
And now, I'm afraid, even if he is just cudgeling, too much damage has been done with the on again off again volatility. Markets can't function in this uncertainty and the Dems have been revived...but there goes my fervor fever again.
The band sounds nice, doesn't it, Rose?
Yes, Jack, real nice.
Confusing means and ends. Trump's economic goal -and his bases goal - is reindustrialization. Tariffs and tax cuts and even currency depreciation are not the way to get there. That does truly require industrial policy. The US deliberately deindustrialized and financialized our economy to create this globalized supply chain of multinationals managed trade. Foreigners didn't do that to us. Nor did immigrants or communists. CEOs and neoliberals and donor class pols did it. Laissez faire ain't gonna reverse it.
Even worse, for Trump's base, Trump's political/power goal is to deliver goodies to his class. The corruption of tariffs is going to lead straight to CEOs protecting their supply chain from tariffs - and the perpetual 'give me a tax cut'. Which means the financial burden is going to fall on the working class who voted for Trump because Bidens industrial policy was mostly bureaucracy bullshit.
Trump's third term or Prez for life goal is gone. Unless he starts using his new found powers to round up the poors and send them to Gitmo. To the applause of the commentariat here
"Even worse, for Trump's base, Trump's political/power goal is to deliver goodies to his class."
At least those "goodies" include actual wealth-producing jobs, compared to the standard modern Democratic Party grift of free stuff and government jobs.
Aah yes. The commentariats wisdom about a perpetual economic/political alliance between the Bezos/Musk/Trumps and Joe Grunt
Are you tapping into the "superiority" schtick, too? Was this in the latest talking points memo?
As to your devastating point, if by Joe Grunt you mean blue collar people who work for a living then yes, even a token alliance with people inclined to push private enterprise is a good thing. If nothing else it denies the socialist state you seem to prefer.
The truly surprising thing about Trump is that he WAS able to be (somewhat) credible on economic issues with forgotten Rust Belt blue collars. Anyone who paid attention in 2016 was surprised that NO ONE ELSE was able to take over that base. Sanders kind of but he sounds more like one of the old union organizers who helped the Rust Belt turn rusty not someone who might reindustrialize. Biden quickly turned dead or demented and chose woke anyway. The Gephardts/etc of the D's are dead. The Clinton/Obama/New D's have contempt for everyone and everything that might be 'class' politics as they have moved to identity/demographic politics.
But - the R billionaires and techbros ain't gonna just inherit Trump's base. The race/xenophobia shit stirring won't work the nanosecond the economy turns south. Except for the commentariat here who like the racist billionaire strategy.
I suspect the D's will, maybe. figure out that the stuck on stupid strategy doesn't work as well as 'it's the economy stupid' strategy. They do likely want to win back something. Though I certainly wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
Woke conservatives angered by SNL impersonation of Elon Musk as non-functional retard:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tv/article-14576771/snl-brutal-takedown-elon-musk-audience-discomfort.html
ML is the Reason H&R woke police. I am sure he ia angered by this.
Shrike opposes misgendering statues and wants porn in children's classrooms, but thinks opposing his blatant racism is somehow "woke".
Here's a sample folks, links available upon request: "Uncle Clarence has had his hand out for over 20 years. GIMME DAT WHITIE MONEY! Taking on Katanji Brown Jackson for lowest IQ affirmative action hire, Uncle Clarence a candidate. Sandy, I had a genuine fear that a Senator Walker would be shucking and jiving us good liberty-loving Georgians every day. No, you’re a fucking snowflake who only gets offended when one of your Lawn Jockeys is criticized. Groveling like a shoe-shine boy, Tim Scott humiliates himself for Fatass Donnie. Fact checking Tim Scott – Trump’s black friend/shine boy: How many little lawn jockeys are in your yard? I bet it looks like a scene from a Tarzan movie out there."
Here's the thing, Shrike. Your racism IS woke. Critical race theory IS racism. Every time you say something racist you're being exquisitely woke.
Now tell us about all the strident feminists, gender activists, BLM radicals, and Palestine supporters who enjoy satirical humor at their expense. Speaking of the UK, I hear they have new laws encouraging humor that pokes fun at Muslims and gays.
Right. And you are the same as those retards. Whiny little bitches who feel special for being "conservative"
Ironically, those on the side of domestic terrorism to shut down dissent consider themselves to be the party of inclusiveness.
But sure, being 'whiney' is just the worst amiright?
Remember how you would mock the strident feminists, gender activists, BLM radicals, and Palestine supporters for being "sensitive snowflakes" because they couldn't take a joke?
Those hate-filled bigots, antisemites and molesters deserve every ounce of mockery they receive... as do you.
What about the hate-filled bigots, antisemites and molesters on your team? Do they deserve mockery?
But more to the point, if the MAGA crowd can act like entitled whiny snowflakes because someone made fun of them, why can't the 'radical feminists' et al.?
as do you.
Is there where you accused me again of supporting Aktion T4? That is a good little fantasy tale.
"What about the hate-filled bigots, antisemites and molesters on your team?
WHO ARE THE HATE-FILLED BIGOTS, ANTISEMITES AND MOLESTERS ON MY TEAM, LYING JEFFY?
NAME NAMES.
Scroll up and read Misek right now and tell us what you disagree with.
"Aktion T4? That is a good little fantasy tale."
Fantasy? Fuck, you're retarded. At least Google it before you pretend that it didn't happen, Nazi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4
Oh, that's an easy one. The hate-filled bigots are the ones who have no problem defending a two-tier system of justice, one for "those people" and one for "real Muricans". The "real Murican" standard of justice is where the full protection of the courts and the Constitution are applied. But the "those people" standard of justice is a sham that they call "due process" which you uncritically accept as just as good as the real thing, because it means the people you don't like get sent away.
Tell us again how it is right and proper that a Venezuelan, who previously earned a judicial order to not be deported to El Salvador because of credible fears of persecution there, who was not in any gang, whom the government ADMITTED made a mistake in deporting, should rightfully be sent to a gulag in El Salvador. Tell us why the "due process" that Garcia received is just as good as the one you or your pals receive when they get in trouble with the law.
you pretend that it didn't happen
I don't pretend that it didn't happen. That is you lying. The fantasy is where you claim that I support Aktion T4. But that is typical of your gaslighting and moving the goalposts. You do it all the time.
"those people" and one for "real Muricans"
Oh look, the one trick pony tried to play his xenophobia card on an actual technically "brown" foreigner, with actual American immigrant family members, yet again.
What a retarded joke you are, Nazi. You already know this but the stupid smears in your ActBlue talking points guide are all you have.
Not only that, you refuses to provide a single example as demanded, and fall back to tropes and smearing the working class as hillbilly bigots. Wannabe-parvenu shills like you calling everyone who's daddy didn't get them into Harvard a bigot are why the Democrats lose elections.
The working class aren't the ones pushing separate-but-equal and Jew-hate on university campuses, they aren't the ones burning Tesla dealerships and historic churches, they aren't the ones smashing the windows of Jewish shops in New York... that's all you guys, Lying Jeffy.
"Aktion T4? That is a good little fantasy tale...
I don't pretend that it didn't happen. That is you lying."
Lol, unbelievable. You really believe people can't read what you just posted the second it becomes inconvenient to your new narrative.
Where I come from, we pretty much mock everyone and everything thing. And those that react with hyper-sensitive panic get mocked more.
So, yes, the dickheads on that list get mocked for their asinine (and sometimes evil) politics, and then again for being snowflakes that claim they have a right not to be mocked.
the dickheads on that list get mocked for their asinine (and sometimes evil) politics, and then again for being snowflakes that claim they have a right not to be mocked.
Where does MAGA fall on the hierarchy of mockery?
MAGA can meme. It's harder for you guys.
turd, the TDS-addled ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Ctrl F "conservative"=0
Someone who believes there is zero risk to supply chain or domestic production please defend this.
China bought steel plants in Britain. They have no canceled all future orders and shut down the last remaining plant.
https://news.sky.com/story/last-uk-blast-furnaces-days-from-closure-as-chinese-owners-cut-off-crucial-supplies-13341457?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter
The West is suffering the effects of having the worst political class in the last 1000 years. Trump, Melei, Duda, Orban, Meloni and Schoof excepted, but even they aren't that great in the big picture.
See you guys. It was fun while it lasted.
Weird how all the managed trade is free trade retards skipped over this.
*It was the blatantness of the palm greasing, whether import duties were going up or down, that eventually led to shifting the federal government's main income source away from tariffs.*
Yup, federal income tax definitely solved that problem. No backroom deals or special exceptions in our 70,000-page tax code.
The entire problem with this debate is that nobody wants to discuss the nuance. Like everything else these days, it's all about Trump who is either Orange Jesus or Literally Hitler. Spoiler: he is an unstable manchild whose policy is about 10,000 times better than Kackles or Biden's puppeteer.
Reason needs to stop pretending Trump started a trade war. If tariffs are as bad as you say, you should have been screaming daily about every other country on the planet the last 50 years. They can't only be bad when we enact them in retaliation. And if his desired result is lower tariffs around the world and freer trade, doesn't this again make Trump 2.0 the most libertarian president of our lifetimes on economic issues?
All that said, Trump is mercurial at best, and probably something closer to bipolar. He has spent decades claiming American tariffs are good policy, which makes him a buffoon. He will probably end up repealing most of these tariffs after the concessions roll in, which will be a win, but does put the lie to his belief in tariffs. Mostly he'll be caving to saner voices because the stock market and his approval are plummeting.
So we will probably end up in a much better place after all this madness, but the way it's instituted matters. And Trump's superpower is stepping on his own dick.
How is he bipolar he says the same thing for 2 decades and people are shocked when the find out in private conversations he says the same thing. You have been so conditioned to accept liars that someone telling the truth about what they believe throws you for a loop
That is fair, and it is one of the positive attributes that makes Trump a unique politician. But it's going to be hard to square that circle when the concessions and repealing starts and he claims it's what he wanted all along. He has to either want fair trade or has to love tariffs, not both.
Or bluffing .
Seems like a false dichotomy to me. One can use tariffs to strong arm other countries into fairer trade. It doesn't strike me as an either/or thing.
I was a little surprised to see Nick make the libertarian case for the income tax. Nah. Not surprised at all.
If tariffs are as bad as you say, you should have been screaming daily about every other country on the planet the last 50 years.
Those tariff's reduce the amount of goods the US is able to sell oversea's, thus lowering American export trade which translates into fewer American jobs than would otherwise exist.
Pretending that only domestic tariffs have any effects is absurd, but people say it with a straight face.
We get cheaper goods with low tariffs, but we also end up with fewer jobs. Not just because of reduced trade, but also because of the relative cost of foreign labor in an essentially international labor market. It's hard for a guy in Pennsylvania to compete on price with a Chinese serf, after all, and all the big international conglomerates are well aware of the savings. The EU is largely in the same boat, as is the rest of the West, which is why large amounts of modern jobs are heading to the so-called 'developing world'.
What happens when the whole world lives in 1st world conditions and the comparative price of labor is about the same worldwide? Well, it probably won't ever happen so it's something of a moot question. There will always be poor and desperate people somewhere who can undercut labor prices thus undermining all those labor protections in the first world.
If labor is the sole cost of goods, those countries with cheaper labor wouldn't need tariffs.
"They can't only be bad when we enact them in retaliation."
Not to dedicated leftists and/or globalists who want the US to be subservient to their preferred one-world order. Just like with domestic politics, independence, let alone dominance, will not be tolerated.
Want tax revenue? Fine. Let's try a head tax for a couple of years, payable by cash or labor equivalent.
BTW, you each owe about $20,000 so get busy. Or get busy pushing for more budget cuts.
Most other nations charge the US relatively low tariff armounts.
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/04/trumps-tariff-rates-for-other-countries-larger-than-word-trade-data.html
The "tariff rate" that Trump put on his shiny poster were not actual tariff rates. They were based on the trade deficit instead.
It is stupid to think that the US, or any nation, should have a trade deficit of zero with every other nation.
"rELaTiveLY loW"
Classic Chemjeff.
Well, they are. Look at the table in the article. They are way less than the 50+% numbers that the Trump admin was using.
Does the government of Vietnam actually levy 90% tariffs on US goods?
Keep going.
A “libertarian” defending income tax?
Sorry state of affairs.
What libritarian is defending that? Certainly you can't concider Welch a libritarian
^BINGO +100000000000000000000000.... That right there.
The whole 'Tariffs' are bad at Reason either has to play "spending doesn't matter. The US Debt can be ignored" ignorance game or they have to play FOREIGNERS FIRST (Zero-Tax) and MORE domestic income taxes good.
The left has spent this nation into bankruptcy.
Trump was elected precisely to prevent that bankruptcy from happening.
"The excess must be relieved through a foreign outlet, and we should sell everywhere we can, and buy wherever the buying will enlarge our sales and productions, and thereby make a greater demand for home labor."
If McKinley lived in the new globalist era he would not have said that with a straight face as it would expand demand for labor oversea's rather than domestically. Some of that increased sales will translate to American jobs, but certainly not like it did during his era.
Americans had too many goods chasing too few consumers.
Let's get to that stage and address it then.
First we have to get past the "too few producers supporting too many consumers" phase.
Off topic because I'm really tired of tariff articles.
This is the DOJ Supreme court filing in the El Salvador Alien Enemies Act case in Boasberg's court in DC. The first few pages lay out the facts. A couple of observations, despite what you may have read at Reason the government does not claim that these individuals aren't entitled to judicial review. The five named plaintiffs are all being held in Texas but the plaintiff attorneys and the court are refusing to allow proceedings to commence there. The plaintiffs and the judge are attempting to argue the legality of the AEA through procedural claims without actually litigating the law itself. The court has not addressed the merits of the statute in any way, he is simply trying to delay deportations with a TRO and injunction.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/24/24A931/354573/20250402092551698_JGG_Reply_4.2_Final.pdf
A single district court has enjoined further national-security operations pursuant to the Alien Enemies Act to remove members of a designated foreign terrorist
organization that is “conducting irregular warfare against the territory of the United
States * * * at the direction * * * of the Maduro regime in Venezuela.” App. 177a.
A majority of the D.C. Circuit acknowledged that this injunction is appealable and
risks compromising delicate foreign negotiations over the terms and conditions under
which foreign countries will accept and detain these foreign terrorists. See App. 7a8a (Henderson, J., concurring); id. at 73a-75a (Walker, J., dissenting). Yet a separate
majority declined to stay the district court’s de facto nationwide injunction, which
rests on a blatantly unlawful drive-by class certification.
This case is not about whether TdA members subject to removal under the
Alien Enemies Act get judicial review; they obviously do. Rather, as respondents
acknowledge (Opp. 1), the pressing issues right now are “procedural issues” about
where and how detainees should challenge their designations as enemy aliens. Those issues call for this Court’s resolution now. Otherwise, the wrong court (D.D.C.) is
deciding the wrong issues (APA claims, not habeas) through the wrong device (a
grossly improper class action), while the wrong remedy remains in place (a nationwide, classwide injunction). If allowed to stand, those basic defects will require vacating whatever merits determinations the district court ultimately makes about the
Alien Enemies Act. In the meantime, by insisting on proceeding with APA claims inthe District of Columbia—not individual habeas proceedings in the Southern Districtof Texas—respondents are depriving the proper forum of the chance to flesh out the scope of habeas review and to start resolving individual challenges in an orderly way.
By persisting with an unlawful class action, respondents also inflict accumulating harms on absent class members, who risk being estopped from pressing habeas claims by virtue of being part of this class action. Respondents instead overwhelmingly focus (Opp. 24-35) on the merits of the
Alien Enemies Act (AEA)—issues that were unresolved below and that this Courtneed not reach. Despite respondents’ sensationalized account, the government’s
reading of the statute is not one under which any “religious and ethnic group * * *
associated with a criminal organization” could be summarily “whisk[ed] away” to “a brutal foreign prison.”
"conducting irregular warfare against the territory of the United
States"
Wait, what about the DC Circuit itself?
These circuit courts need to have their heels locked. They sit have this kind of broad jurisdiction.
Even worse... Boasberg admitted in court that he knew about the deportations at 730am and arranged for himself to be the judge of the case later that night. It wasn't random.
Julie Kelly has the transcripts.
Boasberg should be removed from the bench and put on trial for anything they can get him on.
Yes yes, now we are to accept the government's legal claims at face value again. Funny how that works.
What is the evidence that the government of Venezuela is deliberately sending gang members here? Seems to me this is more of an assumption than a conclusion.
There is an easy way to stop the courts from meddling - just declare war on Venezuela. At that point it becomes crystal clear that the Alien Enemies Act applies and you can round up all the Venezuelans and put them into camps, just like your hero FDR did to the Japanese-Americans. That is what you want to do, isn't it?
Just a reminder, Trump's EO regarding the Alien Enemies Act empowers the government to round up every single Venezuelan in the US - whether they are in a gang or not, whether they are here legally or not - and detain them. Please, tell us all with a straight face that you support rounding up every Venezuelan in this country even the ones here legally.
Hey fag, you pinkos would just keep abusing the courts. Because that’s what fags like you do.
“and you can round up all the Venezuelans and put them into camps, just like your hero FDR did to the Japanese-Americans.”
You see just how easily he lies?
Jeff doesn't know what citizenship is. Because he's a fucking retard.
Do you support the government rounding up all the Venezuelans in this country, even the ones who have nothing to do with any gang, even the ones here legally?
Does the president have the authority to revoke a law firm's security clearance?
Weird how you try to change the subject once I destroyed your argument and showed that you are the actual liar here.
I didn’t make an argument other than you’re a liar Lying Jeffy.
Now I’m just pointing out what a hypocrite you are for always demanding others answer disingenuous questions yet you refuse to answer simple questions that would destroy your narratives.
I didn’t make an argument other than you’re a liar Lying Jeffy.
You didn't make an argument other than just calling me names? Oh, so when you wrote:
You see just how easily he lies?
you weren't actually trying to claim that what I wrote was a lie? Because if you had, that would be an argument. So you outright admit that you're just here to call me names. Nice to know that I'm still right.
No my argument was that you were lying, Lying Jeffy. That's what I meant by "other than".
I even quoted the lie.
No my argument was that you were lying, Lying Jeffy. That's what I meant by "other than".
No, that is not what you said. You called me a liar, which is an ad-hominem. That is not an argument, that is a fallacy. Nowhere did you ever present an argument in this discussion that I supposedly told a lie.
So here again, you are the one demonstrated to be lying.
“and you can round up all the Venezuelans and put them into camps, just like your hero FDR did to the Japanese-Americans.”
I literally quoted the part of your post that was a lie, psychopath.
No, you called me a liar. That is different than making an argument that a certain statement is a lie. You continue to lie even when you claim I am lying.
In point of fact, your nick is a lie, and a slanderous one at that.
Your entire purpose here is to lie and bait and troll and insult.
You are the liar.
Why do you suppose I quoted:
“and you can round up all the Venezuelans and put them into camps, just like your hero FDR did to the Japanese-Americans.”
then called you a liar? Even now you lie, like a psychopath.
It is just more of your namecalling. You made zero effort to try to demonstrate why you thought that statement is a lie. You just picked one of my statements out and said "LIAR". It might as well have been any statement I made. Any excuse to just call me names. Because you are a sad pathetic troll with zero friends in real life.
The only possible candidate for psychopath around here is you. Who in their right mind decides that they want to spend their free time going on to an anonymous comment board and writing 90+% of their comments attacking and trolling and baiting and insulting and name-calling other anonymous people that they have never met?
"You made zero effort to try to demonstrate why you thought that statement is a lie."
Other than quoting it then calling you a liar? Haha, this is amazing.
This is one of the games you play. You don't actually try to construct an argument. You instead attempt to make me guess as to what I think your argument is. What about that statement does Troll Mac think is the lie? Is it the part about rounding up Venezuelans? Is it the part about FDR? Who knows, he doesn't say! So if I fall for your game, I am damned no matter how I answer. If I say "no, clause X is not a lie" then you will say "no the lie is clause Y, you are lying again!" These are the retarded little games that you play because you just want to entrap and bait people. It's dumb and sick.
Is government censorship in Europe a culture war issue?
Does the president have the authority to revoke a law firm's security clearance?
And now that I have demonstrated what you are up to, now you want to change the subject again. Pathetic.
Do you think you are going to entrap me again?
An honest person might say "you're right, I wasn't clear in my previous statement, this is why I think your statement is a lie..."
But no, not Troll Mac. He just wants to continue his games.
Is government censorship in Europe a culture war issue?
Does the president have the authority to revoke a law firm's security clearance?
“and you can round up all the Venezuelans and put them into camps, just like your hero FDR did to the Japanese-Americans.”
What is the lie? The Alien Enemies Act gives the president the power to do just that. That was the legal justification that FDR relied upon.
Is it because I said "you CAN"? That is literally true. It's not the same as saying "you WILL" or "you WANT TO". Are you calling it a lie because you are substituting the meaning of the word that I used ("can") with the meaning of some other words that you wish I would have used ("will", "want")?
Finally, how pathetic do you have to be in order to spend your time slandering me with your nick? Your only comments here, as of this writing, are to attack and troll other people.
Pathological.
Hey Troll Mac, I wrote some more comments below. Why don't you prove me right, that you only come here to troll and shit on the people you don't like, by trolling and shitting on those comments too?
Notice how Troll Mac runs away once someone stands up to him. He is nothing but a sad pathetic bully who has nothing of substance to offer.
Two hours on a Sunday afternoon with no reply and Lying Jeffy's taking a victory lap like he somehow silenced RMac.
What a clown.
Lying Jeffy runs from me for weeks at a time.
A couple months ago he ran coverage for the globalists censoring people in Europe, calling it part of the culture war. DesigNate asked him if he thought censorship was part of the culture war. Lying Jeffy didn't answer at the time. So I asked him repeatedly for about over a week if he thought censorship was part of the culture war.
He won't answer, because it puts him in a tough spot. Does he admit he doesn't care about free speech, or admit that it's not part of the culture war?
Then a few weeks ago, Jesse posted a link to an article about a judge restraining the Trump administration from revoking the security clearance of Perkins Coie. His response was that Trump was crying victim for attacking this decision. I asked Lying Jeffy a simple question: Does the president have the authority to revoke the security clearance of a law firm? Obviously he does, and Lying Jeffy knows he does. But he can't answer the question.
Now, after I call Lying Jeffy a liar for saying anyone worships FDR for putting the Japanese in internment camps, Lying Jeffy wants to accuse me of dodging bullshit questions? Doesn't get more dishonest than that.
Hey Troll Mac, let me put this to you as simply as I can.
You are garbage. You do not merit the dignity of a serious response. So I don't give a fuck what you think, the truth is, I don't give you serious answers because you are not worth the effort. You have demonstrated time and again that your only purpose here is to lie and troll and bait people and insult the people you don't like. You are a sad pathetic sack of human flesh who should probably just give up and die because your life has no meaning.
Now, before anyone gets their panties in a twist and says "BUT WHAT ABOUT DEHUMANIZING PEOPLE blah blah blah" - Troll Mac has EARNED this loathsome status by his own individual actions. I do not call Troll Mac a steaming pile of shit because he belongs to some class of people, like migrants or conservatives or something else. I call Troll Mac a reprehensible disgusting waste of flesh because of his own actions that he freely chose for himself.
So you can fuck off with your leading questions and your trolling and baiting and garbage. I don't care.
"You do not merit the dignity of a serious response."
Yet here you are. Another lie. A simple, minor lie, but you do it like it's breathing. Clearly I merit continued responses to you, because you continue to respond.
What you refuse to respond to are simple questions that the answers to would expose you.
Is government censorship in Europe a culture war issue?
Does the president have the authority to revoke a law firm's security clearance?
What you refuse to respond to are simple questions that the answers to would expose you.
Oh, so now we are getting somewhere! You ask bad faith questions in order to "expose" me. No dialogue, just trying to generate gotcha moments. This is why you are garbage.
Was DesigNate's question in bad faith?
YOUR question is in bad faith. If/when DesigNate asks me to have a dialogue on the issue, I will do so. I will not have one with you.
It was his question you didn't answer.
Lying Jeffy knows.
Chemjeff radical individualist, you are a monumentally dishonest piece of shit. Everything you just argued was in bad faith, yet look at you accuse RMac of the same.
You're so fortunate not to have a sense of shame or you would've hung yourself years ago.
Is someone claiming that all Venezuelans in the country are enemy aliens? Or is there a bit more nuance to it?
Read the Alien Enemies Act (below). Trump has arrogated unto himself the power to round up every Venezuelan living in this country, JUST LIKE FDR did to Japanese-Americans in WW2. I would hope you would not support such an outrageous affront to liberty.
I’m well aware what the AEA says. “shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured, and removed as alien enemies”. Not will be, which would indeed be epically stupid. “Shall be liable” is deliberate. It means they could be, but to my knowledge no one from the administration has made it a blanket application yet. Hence why I said it’s a little more nuanced. That, of course, could change.
Also, You can keep trying to claim this is like WW2, but it’s not.
I'm not claiming the current situation is like WW2, the Trump admin is. They are the ones using the AEA to justify rounding up people that was last used under FDR and WW2.
By signing that declaration, Trump made every Venezuelan a potential fugitive. It is wrong.
The law should not exist, it should not be enforced, it is an abomination to liberty and should be burned to ashes.
Hey Lying Jeffy, now that Designate is here to corroborate, did you refer to government censorship in Europe as a culture war issue?
Don't dodge the question Lying Jeffy.
Hey Troll Mac, maybe when you apologize for the previous 5,000 times that you have done nothing but troll and lie and bait me here on this forum, then maybe I will consider answering your question in good faith.
Is government censorship in Europe a culture war issue?
Does the president have the authority to revoke a law firm's security clearance?
Hilarious timing Nate, I just referred to you directly above, lol.
This should be fun to watch Lying Jeffy do his thing.
Yes, hilarious indeed. DesigNate, do you want to see Troll Mac hijack the conversation and turn it into his previous trollfest for his own amusement? If so, then please, feed the troll.
He actually already said he appreciated me continuing to repeat his question to you.
You could just answer it to clear up your position:
Is government censorship in Europe a culture war issue?
Do you fuck your sister in the ass?
Really leaning into me calling you a psychopath I see.
C'mon Troll Mac, why won't you answer?
Do you fuck your sister in the ass?
See, the reason I'm asking is because I want to expose you as the sodomizing incestuous pervert that you really are. If you answer "yes" then clearly my assumptions about you are correct. But if you answer "no" then clearly you are the type who favors vaginal incest instead. Which is even worse because that means you might be making little incest babies with your sister.
So what is your answer - do you fuck your sister in the ass?
Please go on...
Why, is this discussion turning you on? If so, that would track.
Please go on...
Here is the literal text of the Alien Enemies Act:
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title50/chapter3&edition=prelim
So the Alien Enemies Act authorizes the president to round up every Venezuelan in the US who is "not actually naturalized". That includes legal permanent residents, asylum seekers, those here on completely valid visas, etc. Do you support this?
Trump is wrong ... because ... there was a Surplus of Goods in America after McKinleys Tariffs!!!? /s
WOW.... The day stupid came to Reason Magazine in a TDS plague.
Now having a Surplus of Goods is a bad thing.
Next thing they'll be championing partitioning of goods in a Nazi-Empire.
As 'TrueLibertarian2' points out above; they're already praising income tax.
They heard Bernie say that bread lines are a good thing.
Indeed ... and it's flooring Democrats almost made Bernie President of the USA.
As is too often the case in the modern era, the MAGA case for tariffs is not based on facts or reason or logic or economics, it is based on feelings. It is based on the FEELING that the US is being ripped off and that the culprits deserve retaliation. How is the US being ripped off? Because US citizens choose to buy cheap shit from foreign countries instead of buying comparatively more expensive shit that is made in this country. Vietnam tricked Americans into betraying their nation, how dare they!
Is the end goal here to have a total trade deficit of zero with every country? (Even with the penguins?)
The US is being ripped off Fatfuck. It takes no emotion to reach that obvious conclusion. You’re just a stupid, lying cunt.
Stupid, lying, Marxist fat fuck cunt*
Poor Jesse. His Dear Leader is leading the world into a recession and he knows he and his team will be blamed for it, and if the Orange One doesn't change course, it will be blowout elections in 2026 and 2028. It will be a repeat of 2006/2008. So the only way that he and his team can possibly stay in power is to construct an alternate reality in which everything is someone else's fault. Much like Stalin's propaganda blamed everyone else for the famines and misery of 1930's Soviet Union, the Team Red propaganda he regurgitates here does the same trick - blames everyone else for letting down Dear Leader Trump.
I see Fatfuck is writing more democrat fan fiction. And your version likely involves illegals reaping small American children.
I stand corrected.
How is the US being ripped off?
You're right. Let's bring back slavery.
Where precisely is the slavery in your non-sequitur of an answer?
China/NK, Russia, India, Pakistan, Qatar, Congo, etc. etc.
Do the islands full of penguins also practice slavery? Is that why Trump put tariffs on them, to stop penguin slavery?
You're retconning what is actually happening. This isn't an anti-slavery crusade, this is mercantilism.
I don't know, who cares. 10% was across the board. I doubt the penguins are exporting much, so it's not like it affects them. But I guess if you're that desperate for a talking point that you can recite from your MSM programming, instead of having any kind of independent or natural thought of your own, then go with that.
You won't look like and come off as a stupid ignorant NPC. Promise. *wink*
Do you know what retconning means? The tariffs aren't about slavery. Otherwise he wouldn't have put tariffs on places where there are no people, slaves or otherwise. He also wouldn't have put tariffs on places where slavery has been outlawed for centuries, like Europe or Canada.
If you want to try to make the argument that tariffs are a justifiable tool for combating slavery, then make that argument. But that is not what Trump is doing.
Your question was how are we being ripped off. AT is saying that the reason these countries have been able to compete with us is because they use slave labor. The tariffs are supposed to make it less attractive to use labor in those counties.
This is not hard to understand.
Europe uses slave labor? Canada uses slave labor? Islands full of penguins use slave labor?
Obviously I was referring to the countries that AT listed off. Jesus Christ man.
He is retconning the entire tariff debacle to make it seem like some moral crusade against slavery. It is not and it never was. Don't fall for the cheap rhetorical trick.
AT 2 hours ago
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China/NK, Russia, India, Pakistan, Qatar, Congo,
chemjeff radical individualist 1 hour ago
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Mute User
Europe uses slave labor? Canada uses slave labor? Islands full of penguins use slave labor?
When I call Lying Jeffy a psychopathic, pathological liar, I'm not being hyperbolic.
Well, would you look at that. Just as I predicted, here comes Troll Mac to shit on all of my other conversations in this thread. Because that is Troll Mac's purpose here, to shit on the people he doesn't like.
The only psychopath around here is you. At first I tried to engage with you in a good-faith manner. You might accuse me of lying about some statement, and so then I would try to go back and clarify what I wrote. Because I didn't want you to think I was lying. But it was never enough. You were always accusing me of lying about something even when I wasn't lying and even when I did my best to clarify what I had meant. You would accuse me of lying even for the pettiest of errors like missing a quotation mark. And then I understood what you were really up to. Your whole purpose all along was to entrap the people you didn't like into situations where you were free to call them liars no matter how they answered. Like what you did above - simply quote a statement and say "liar". Without bothering to construct an argument as to why you thought it was a lie. You never intended to do so. It was all a sick game on your part.
Look at this current discussion here. You quote two different parts of the discussion, skipping all of the relevant parts in between, in order to name-call me one more time as a liar. Why is that? Because you just want to push the meme. That's all. It's all just a game.
You are the psychopath around here. The sad pathetic miserable psychopath with no friends and no life.
Is government censorship in Europe a culture war issue?
Does the president have the authority to revoke a law firm's security clearance?
Everything I wrote above about you is true, and you can't stand it.
Didn't read it.
Is government censorship in Europe a culture war issue?
Does the president have the authority to revoke a law firm's security clearance?
Well, would you look at that. Just as I predicted, here comes Lying Jeffy to conflate:
"China/NK, Russia, India, Pakistan, Qatar, Congo,"
With Europe, Canada, and an island of penguins.
Here in the real world, Trump is targeting what he is calling the "Dirty 15" for tariffs.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dirty-15-countries-trump-might-target-liberation-day-tariffs
I think it would come as a great shock to the governments of Australia, Switzerland, the UK, Argentina and Japan that they are ripping us off due to their practice of slave labor.
Is government censorship in Europe a culture war issue?
Does the president have the authority to revoke a law firm's security clearance?
The tariffs aren't about slavery.
Well that's a fair point. They're about slavery in the slaver countries. And those are the ones getting really hammered. (Or, if not - it's because we don't trade with them, so they just get the baseline 10%. This is why the whole "OMG Israel more than Iran" the latter of whom we economically sanction was absolutely hilarious in either its ignorance or its expectation of reader ignorance.) The others, well they've been taking advantage for a long time, to the detriment of the average American and the American economy. It's legit.
Here's a question for you Jeffster. Which nation on Earth should be the baseline to measure the value of goods and services? Is your answer someone other than America? If so, why?
The others, well they've been taking advantage for a long time,
That's what I asked about. How are these countries taking advantage of you?
What is the point of a tariff, Jeff? What is its economic purpose?
Leftard Self-Projection 101.....
You just described Democrats to a T.
Well well, a D rep concluded that maybe Elon Musk is a fascist because of his South African heritage.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dems-slam-elon-musk-melania-trump-xenophobic-attacks-go-back-south-africa
This is just so wrong. Elon Musk shouldn't be judged by the worst cultural traits of his native country. He is an individual who should be judged by his own merits.
Unlike, say, Haitians who should totally be judged by their worst cultural traits, such as "of course they eat cats in Springfield, look, a lot of them believe in Voodoo", or basically anyone from Latin America, who should totally be judged as a shithole person because they come from a shithole country. It's okay to judge THEM by their nationality. But it is totally wrong to judge Elon Musk by his nationality.
MAPedo Jeffy is still angry over his precious illegals being criticized.
Like all right thinking libertarians I rely on Reason.com to keep me informed on threats to individual liberty. The last I heard former first son Hunter Biden was a victim of malicious prosecution that threatened his 2A rights. Other than that he wasn't particularly interesting. At least nothing turned up on their NYT newsfeed. Their friends at The Bulwark didn't have anything to offer either. Imagine my shock when I found out that the Paper of Record, The Grey Lady, the NYT, suggests that maybe, just maybe Hunter was selling the influence of the vice president of our republic. Will Sullum manage a Newsome style shoulder swivel (apologies to Rick James) and declare with a straight face that this is just more pandering to Orange Man? Will Reason suspend their editorial policy of uncritically regurgitating anything that the Grey Lady pukes up? Libertarians want to know.
https://jonathanturley.org/2025/04/06/oh-that-influence-peddling-new-york-times-belatedly-finds-evidence-that-hunter-did-act-as-foreign-agent/
DEI in the EU: A Growing Priority with Big Penalties for Non-Compliance
In 2023, the European Union enacted a comprehensive set of regulations aimed at improving diversity and inclusion in the workforce. These regulations mandate that companies with more than 100 employees report key DEI metrics, including: Workforce diversity data (gender, ethnicity, disability status)
https://diversio.com › dei-in-the-eu-a-growing-priority-w...
They are going to try and force any American company to submit to these rules. I can see why the globalist are so keen on importing "Asylum Seekers", it's not to fill jobs, it's to have them vote for more globalist pols.
So, South Sudan is a dirt poor country that just fought a civil war. Apparently its government is not accepting repatriated citizens from the US. This makes Little Marco upset. So what does he do in retaliation? He withdraws the visas from all South Sudanese living here, including those with temporary protection from being deported there.
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-administration-revokes-all-visas-south-sudans-citizens-2055940
This is a cruel response to a diplomatic problem. What did those South Sudanese individuals do to deserve this treatment? They are not the ones responsible for the South Sudanese government's decisions.
That’s pretty fucked up.
That is really fucked up. Ever since Little Marco found the loophole in the law which says that he gets to deport anyone he wants based on his say-so alone, he has turned into a real petty tyrant.
The Australian government is going to ban social media for kids under 16.
https://time.com/7273443/australia-social-media-ban-anthony-albanese/
This is authoritarian nonsense, of course. It's the parents' job to parent kids, not the government's.
Let's play a board game I call Risk 2.0, which instead or armies has trade goods. You compete to trade with other players, and can make deals about tariffs and other conditions. You can even borrow money from them.
First player to run out of money--or reaches a point where no other players trade with them--loses. Oh, and at any time the game can revert to Risk 1.0, but the size of the armies is based on economic assets.
So, Trump put huge tariffs on a bunch of dirt-poor African nations based on a simplistic formula. So what this means is, very likely, more African nations will turn to China for aid and economic development.
https://www.reuters.com/world/steep-us-tariffs-africa-signal-end-trade-deal-meant-boost-development-2025-04-03/
Good job, Trump!
They were already turning to China…
Yes they were, in part due to China's version of USAID, called "Belt and Road Initiative", that invested gobs of money in Africa.
So, Trump not only canceled USAID money, he is also tariffing the hell out of dirt poor African nations. I mean, WTF is up with putting these sky-high tariffs on countries like Lesotho? Their GDP is something like a billion dollars a year. That's it! Their entire GDP is a rounding error in our federal budget. The reason for the trade deficit is because they have a lot of diamonds, and they have a big Levi's Jeans factory, and they are dirt poor so they don't have a lot of money to buy US goods. Hence, trade deficit. So, what will predictably happen, is that the Levi's Jeans factory will close down and move, and Lesotho will sell its diamonds to China instead (or really, anywhere else). The people of Lesotho will probably stay dirt poor, jeans will be more expensive, and diamonds will be more expensive too. Thanks Trump!
It is like he WANTS third world nations to turn to China instead of the US....
So, let China go broke for a change.
Dear Leader Trump's tariffs are actually good for you. He's watching over you and looking out for your best interests. Case in point, because of the tariffs that Trump the Wise and Beneficent has levied, he is helping you win 'the war on clutter'.
https://nypost.com/2025/04/06/lifestyle/how-trumps-tariffs-could-finally-help-americans-win-their-war-on-clutter/
[...]
His tariffs is just one more sign that Dear Leader Trump cares for us, loves us, and wants what is best for us.
Not a cult.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-florida-supporters-glimpse-motorcade-flags-086a4f9a1659de959750a4c29fa5a443
[...]
Nope, not a cult.
It's not cultlike at all.
You have to understand that the American Left has destroyed the concept of heroism. But the American people have heroism hardwired into them. You don't get heroes in China. You don't get them in Iran. You don't get them France. You don't get them in Cuba. You don't get them in Canada.
I'm not saying America has a monopoly on heroism, nor am I saying that a chineseey or a jihadi or a frog or a commie are necessarily incapable of shaking off their garbage culture and becoming heroes - but what I am saying is that the American Way (in no small part due to its Christian origin) is a methodology that breeds heroism. We teach people right from wrong. We teach that strength should be used for the benefit of the weak. We teach that good always conquers evil. We teach that that order and justice and morality make for a greater world than chaos and oppression and hedonism ever will.
Or, at least, we used to.
Have you ever noticed how Conservatives have a tendency to glom onto people who rise as champions? (I actually consider it a bad habit, because it kicks them in the teeth more often than not.) Drudge, Shapiro, Riley Gaines, Walsh, Crowder, Prager, Breitbart, Rush, Cruz, Lee, Ryan, LOTT, Mamet, Elon, Trump. Heck, throw in the Gipper while we're at it.
It's because they're so desperate for a champion. They're desperate for someone to call a hero. They're desperate for someone - who can make a difference - to reflect them and what they so badly want in the name of.... well, Truth, Justice, and the American Way.
Leftists struggle to understand this because they shut off their brains, become NPCs, and invariably subscribe to the whole "when everyone is special, nobody will be" mentality that panders to the lowest common denominator. They worship the exact opposite of greatness. Because they hate greatness. Because greatness creates a hierarchy, makes them feel little, and all they want is to tear them all down and create their "utopia" of sameness and stagnation where nobody is better or worse than anybody else. Equity.
Equity
People - MAGA in particular - have lined up behind Donald because they view him as a champion. They wanted an effective leader who would get things done, particularly when it comes to the border and to trade. They wanted someone who would do the exact opposite of Barack's apology tour. And y'know what, I'm going to go there - they also knew that we would NEVER accomplish that with a woman in charge. Sorry not sorry. Hillary and Kamala, even if they were honest-to-God conservatives, wouldn't have the literal balls needed to put China, Mexico, Russia, Iran, "Palestine", or the EU on the backfoot. Nor would any of the MAGA Trump-wannabe chicks (MTG, Boebert, etc.).
They line up behind Donald because they view him the same way basketball views Jordan and Kobe. They line up behind Donald because they view him the same way as football views Brady, Manning, and Montana. They line up behind Donald because they view him the same way as art views Shakespeare, Da Vinci, and Michaelangelo.
I'm not saying Donald is even remotely in the same league as any of those people - just that people see a greatness in him that they so badly long for in American political leadership. And so long as Donald keeps delivering - tariffs on the slaver countries, one-way flights for border jumping scumbags, gutting the bureaucratic state and holding a knife to the throat of DEI types - they're going to continue to regard him as a champion.
Not because they're cultists, but because he's actually DOING what so many people have promised and failed to deliver on.
He's earning it, Jeff. And I say that as an OG#NT. He's earning it.
MAPedo Jeffy has no concept of heroism, or citizenship. He hates America, but loves government. He also believes himself to be somehow libertarian based on his leftist open borders fetish and his desire to murder babies, and rape/mutilate the children he and his fellow travelers allow to live.
He loathes and hates anyone better and more capable than himself. So obviously republicans and any other real Americans are anathema to him.
Yeah, that was well said but Jeff isn't getting paid to read all that, and he's also evil, and hates heroism and heroics.
I wasn't writing it for his sake. 😉
Well, thank you for agreeing with me, at least in part. Of course, you had to do it with a great heaping dose of revisionist history, cultural arrogance and misogyny, but you did it anyway. So what you are saying is that the MAGA faithful are looking for a Superman-like figure to be president and to be not just their leader, but their heroic savior. So I think there is a strong overlap between my description of Trump as a cult leader to the people that I described above, and your description of Trump that you freely gave as a heroic-type figure.
You understand the difference between a hero and a god, right? You understand the difference between a champion and a deity, correct?
Because I'll be happy to go down to Walmart and buy a box of crayons to explain this to you, but something tells me you already know the difference and are just being contrary because that's what your NPC programming commands.
So your big complaint with me, is that Trump's most ardent followers don't view him as a god-like figure, but they do view him as a Superman-like figure, and that is why they support him.
Okay, fine, I concede. You are right.
P.S. Trump isn't Superman either.
Never said that either, but keep on digging, you'll get back home to China eventually.
He's not their 'champion' either. He's a con-man. If Trump Steaks and Trump University and Trump Vodka and all of the other Trump-branded crap doesn't convince people that he USES his name to fool the rubes into giving him money and fame and power, what will?
It is absolutely pathetic that a bunch of grown adults wake up early on a weekend to go stand in front of Mar-a-Lago to try to catch a glimpse of Trump before he goes to spend the weekend there playing golf.
I mean, thanks for proving Mom and Straw right I guess?
AT, +1. Well said and well put.
Obsessed fanboys do the same thing with certain celebrities (hell, one could argue the paparazzi do essentially the same thing), so no, not really culty.
Huh. Whoever could have seen this coming.
The Austrian government does a complete about-face, now supports an EU-Mercosur free trade deal
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/trump-tariffs-push-staunch-critic-austria-to-back-mercosur-deal/ar-AA1CkZjg
Wow, what could have happened that persuaded Mr. Hattmannsdorfer to change his mind?