Is it Constitutional To Deport Immigrants for Political Speech?
President Donald Trump has begun kicking immigrant “Hamas sympathizers” out of the U.S.

Immigrant students who express sympathy for Hamas will have their visas and green cards revoked so that deportation proceedings may be brought against them, Secretary of State Marco Rubio posted to X on Monday. The State Department, which began carrying out the "catch and revoke" program last week, will use artificial intelligence to sift through foreign nationals' social media accounts for pro-Hamas sympathies. Rubio said the U.S. has "zero tolerance for foreign visitors who support terrorists" and vowed to deport "violators of U.S. law." While the constitutionality of the program is dubious, it is unambiguously un-American to punish people for political speech.
The initiative follows two executive orders signed by President Donald Trump. The first, enacted on January 20, states that the policy of the U.S. is to "protect its citizens from aliens who intend to commit terrorist attacks, threaten our national security, and espouse hateful ideology." The second, signed on January 29, mandates the U.S. crackdown on anti-Semitism by "prosecut[ing], remov[ing], or otherwise hold[ing] to account the perpetrators of unlawful anti-Semitic harassment and violence." The order directs the secretaries of State, Education, and Homeland Security to conduct investigations and remove aliens who endorse designated foreign terrorist organizations.
In the second order's fact sheet, Trump explicitly states that he intends to "deport Hamas Sympathizers [and] quickly cancel the student visas of all Hamas sympathizers on college campuses." "Hamas sympathizers" is left undefined, but Jenin Younes, a civil liberties attorney, tells Reason that the term is clearly "used to apply to students who simply support Palestinian rights or who think Palestinians have some right of resistance against occupation." Younes says, "The government has always had the ability to prosecute people who break laws, including providing material support for terrorism….What is happening now is clearly an attempt to punish people for having and expressing the wrong ideas."
Eugene Volokh, professor of law emeritus at the University of California, Los Angeles, explains that the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 provides for the denial of entry and deportation of "any alien who…endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist organization." Nadine Strossen, former president of the American Civil Liberties Union and senior fellow at the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, tells Reason that Trump's executive order "clearly is based on federal statutory authority, so one cannot make the argument that the president is exceeding his constitutional powers."
Still, the question remains whether the statute itself and the executive order enforcing it are constitutional. Strossen explains that "non-citizens with any immigration status at all, including unauthorized immigrants, have the same First Amendment rights that U.S. citizens have…insofar as they have the same protection against criminal penalties, criminal investigations, or civil law enforcement." However, it's unclear "whether non-citizens have the same First Amendment rights as citizens with respect to the deportation process."
Strossen points to decades of legal precedent and case law to describe the complexity surrounding the constitutionality of the "catch and revoke" policy. In support of immigrants' First Amendment rights is Justice Frank Murphy's concurring opinion in the 1945 case, Bridges v. Wixon: "Once an alien lawfully enters and resides in this country he becomes invested with the rights guaranteed by the Constitution to all people within our borders." However, the Supreme Court ruled in 1952 that legal aliens could be deported for membership in the Communist Party without violating the First Amendment in Harisiades v. Shaughnessy. The decision was made at a time when "the First Amendment didn't protect the right of American citizens to espouse terrorism" and when people "were prosecuted and convicted for teaching Marxist classes," says Strossen.
Constitutionality aside, Strossen opposes Trump's policy "on [the] pragmatic basis [that] you don't change an attitude by criminalizing its expression."
David Bier, director of immigration studies at the Cato Institute, tells Reason that "legal permanent residents are in a much stronger position than someone with a nonimmigrant visa." Mahmoud Khalil, a Palestinian graduate student whom a Department of Homeland Security spokesperson vaguely alleges "led activities aligned to Hamas," now faces deportation despite holding a green card, not just a student visa. Trump said, "this is the first arrest of many to come."
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Yes. Immigrants can get deported for various reasons. I've personally known two such cases; one for vandalism and another for not getting a job quickly enough. Support for a terrorist organization sounds like at least as good a reason as unemployment.
So anyone who supports terrorist Israel can be deported as well - that's good to know.
I did Nazi that coming. Nice to know you’re in the same boat as J(ew)free, Misek, and misconstrueman.
Not if you value the constitution.
Trumps Zionist best bum buddy Netanyahu has international warrants for his arrest for war crimes.
He gives speeches on our mainstream media.
Israel is on trial in the United Nations International Court of Justice for committing genocide in Gaza.
This is exactly why 1a exists to enable protesting treasonous government actions.
Trumps Zionist fascist police state in action.
“The ICE agents then told Khalil's attorney, Amy Greer, over the phone that his green card was also being revoked”
Reasons to revoke a green card.
D)Participated in Nazi persecution, genocide, or the commission of any act of torture or extrajudicial killing
Any alien described in clause (i), (ii), or (iii) of section 1182(a)(3)(E) of this title is deportable.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1227
That’s what he was protesting! While supporting the UN.
The US gave the UN all the authority of the United States when it signed the UN genocide convention.
Refuted, you stupid cunt.
You didn't refute anything. Lol. Of course, you would be a smooth brain with the name "Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )"
At this point it's just a matter of time until rival political parties are declared enemies of the state, and it will be ok because the left did it first.
You definitely are gay for strawmen, Sarc.
Notice how he pretends supporting terrorism is just another political party. I guess the left wants that distinction erased much like they believe all their violence is speech. That way they cant be condemned for supporting violence.
Notice how whenever Marshal or his fellow Trump defenders say "Notice how" everything that follows is bullshit lies?
If that were true you would be able to explain specifically what is wrong instead of having to use a label. Hiding the specifics and relying on the label is Propaganda 101.
If that were true you would be able to explain specifically what is wrong
Ok Jesse Jr.
Notice how he pretends supporting terrorism is just another political party.
It's called an analogy, dumbass. One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. I'm sure that King George considered Washington and Jefferson to be terrorists. Just depends on which side you're on.
I guess the left
As always showing off your stupidity by calling me a leftist.
wants that distinction erased much like they believe all their violence is speech.
That's just dumb. Especially when it's the left who calls speech violence, but now you're doing it too. Just like the leftists you hate. You emotional twit. You're just like them.
That way they cant be condemned for supporting violence.
Condemning is one thing. Deportation without a criminal conviction is another. It's also unlawful. And you support it. So you are defending unlawful actions by the government because Trump is doing it.
As I've said before, for you it's all about who, not what. No principles and no respect for the Constitution or the law.
Only difference between you and the leftists you hate is that you're part of the Church of Trump instead of the Church of Obama.
You are what you hate.
It's called an analogy, dumbass. One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
The distinction I referenced is between violence and non-violence, so an analogy would need to be comparable. Yet your "analogy" compares two groups each using violence. It's to be expected that you cannot logically describe how you reached your conclusion since it is not logically supportable.
it's the left who calls speech violence, but now you're doing it too. Just like the leftists you hate. You emotional twit. You're just like them.
They call others' speech violence, but they also call their own violence speech. One does not preclude the other. Are you not able to understand more than one thing is true?
Condemning is one thing. Deportation without a criminal conviction is another. It's also unlawful. And you support it. So you are defending unlawful actions by the government because Trump is doing it.,
This is such a strange comment since everything about it is wrong. Here is the actual law:
Eugene Volokh, professor of law emeritus at the University of California, Los Angeles, explains that the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 provides for the denial of entry and deportation of "any alien who…endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist organization."
As I've said before, for you it's all about who, not what. No principles and no respect for the Constitution or the law.
Certainly you've said it, but you've never provided any evidence at all. On the other hand you have never applied any standard to yourself or leftists that you judge those you hate by. So it is you whose entire worldview is determined by who is under discussion since you have no principles.
You're arguing with someone whose primary trait is being ignorant to all his own views.
Less arguing and more mocking.
THIS IS WHY I MUTED THE STUPID FUCK!
*sigh*
Yes, I fully admit that my motivation here is selfish. I'd rather not have to scroll and pick through a sea of responses from decent people to psychotic or moronic (or both!) grey boxes to find the stuff worth reading. It's like sorting the wheat from the chaff, except the wheat itself help generate more chaff. It's quite frustrating.
Like, are all y'all motherfuckers retired? The signal to noise ratio from engaging with the Fucktard Gang cannot be worth the effort! Meh, whatever. I have a scroll wheel. I'm sure I'll miss some gems, but at least I don't have to dig through a midden field to find them.
Except what he said is 100% true. You just do t like being called out for what a leftist shitweasel you are.
Glad to see you admit that the left indeed did do it first. Please feel free to reference Biden's fire and brimstone anti-MAGA speech a couple of years ago.
Glad to see you admit that you think fascism is ok because the left did it first.
No, getting of fascism is ok, because the left tried to force fascism on us. You’re upset that it didn’t work.
What "rival political parties" have been declared terrorist organizations like Hamas? This is clearly within Trump's power. The law is clear.
Complain to Congress.
I must have missed the announcement that the U.S. considers Israel a terrorist group.
Hamas is a declared terrorist organization, and is the elected government in Palestine.
I don't understand this argument others (not you) make about Palestine being occupied - Palestine got self-rule decades ago, and immediately voted in Hamas as their government. That some in Palestine regret that now is interesting, but until the locals make a change, they all get lumped in together.
I would support any Israeli students here on an education visa violating the rights of their fellow students and breaking the rules of the institution they've been given that visa to attend also being deported.
Are you aware of any such cases?
"So anyone who supports terrorist Israel can be deported as well"
Your strawman sucks canal water, shitbag.
Palestine gets a special call out in immigration law.
“An alien who is an officer, official, representative, or spokesman of the Palestine Liberation Organization is considered, for purposes of this chapter, to be engaged in a terrorist activity.“
Hamas doesn’t seem to get the same specificity. Judge might rule in his favor, but it’s not obvious.
But there isn't anything in the constitution saying that congress shall make no law about vandalism or not getting a job soon enough.
Speech by itself is protected without regard for citizenship or anything else about the speaker. Other ways of supporting terrorists that go beyond just speech/press are probably fair game. But it needs to be more than just saying stuff or handing out literature.
The same constitution that allows Trump supporters to freely express themselves allows others to express views most of us find repugnant. If you can't support speech you disagree with, you do not believe in free speech at all.
Green cards are still a privelege and not a right to maintain once granted.
Hey, if this upsets you so much, you should complain to Congress. They passed the law.
I do think it was a bit of an unforced error to claim simply "supporting" Hamas would get your visa revoked. There is an argument that even verbally expressing support for a designated terrorist organization could get a visa revoked, but that's not even required for what they are doing.
But even if you take Hamas out of it, they are here on an educational visa. They are given special privileges to be here for the purpose of education.
They could be protesting for puppies, but if they were still violating their fellow students rights, and breaking the rules of the institution they received the visa to attend, they should be sent home. Even more so if they break the law.
They could be protesting for puppies, but if they were still violating their fellow students rights, and breaking the rules of the institution they received the visa to attend, they should be sent home.
And the two points go hand-in-hand. They weren't protesting for puppies. If it were more access for handicap-assistance animals and the University isn't listening, OK, your expression *can* be heard. The University can hear your complaint and change its policy. Protesting Israel on the West bank, you're just forcibly extorting a/the public/private space for attention. If it's less than that, the idea that the 1A allows students to forcibly or coercively change a curriculum they don't own and aren't in charge of is even more retarded. Especially given recent history how all the changes seem to always go one way.
200 yrs. ago when all the whiskey distillers in PA all had to stop distilling and ride horses to their tax collector's house "Free Speech Über Alles" may have made sense. In the modern era where students on federal loans are practically sitting around waiting for a Tweet to perform another flash mob and/or sit in the street and/or glue themselves to some shit? GTFO with your advocacy of social disruption and unrest (in support of violence).
Other ways of supporting terrorists that go beyond just speech/press are probably fair game. But it needs to be more than just saying stuff or handing out literature.
If I, at risk to no one, get in my car and go veering back and forth across 3 empty lanes of highway performatively, they revoke my driving privileges. Sure it's not exactly dangerous to anyone except maybe me and it's minorly inconvenient and trivially destructive to others, but it's my free expression dammit! And now, if I do the same thing on foot, again at far greater risk to myself than anyone else, they come and arrest me even if I *don't* get hit. What happened to free speech in this country?!
The 1A doesn't grant anyone, foreign or domestic, the ability to lead an angry mob to disrupt a University, especially about a violent conflict that is in no way under the University's control or sphere of influence, and never has. This "I'm only doing it performatively!" schtick was tired way back when Ken White called all the goat fuckers out on it.
I am just talking about speech. I'm not clear on his role in the protests. If he was trespassing, appropriating property or committing any other crime, I have no problem with it. We've had this debate before. I've been consistent. Free speech is speech. Other activities related to political protest are not protected just because it's a protest.
Agree. But taking property isn't. If they refused a lawful order to disband their encampment, that opens them up to charges which can be used to deport them.
Also on their Visa application - I'm not sure of specific questions so just assuming here- if they lied on them by stating they don't support a terrorist organization and then are on camera supporting Hamas, perjury gets you deported.
Unemployment is no a valid reason to revoke a green card under federal law.
These aren’t green cards, retarded one.
What are you babbling about, Molly? You white suburban women are seriously lost.
Tony is a white suburban woman?
She's AWFUL.
If you are here on a WORK visa and you can't find work/lose your job, you lose your visa and have to go.
If you have a student visa and you fail out of school or stop enrolling in classes, you lose your visa and have to go home.
If you overstay your visa, you have to go home.
If you choose not to go home after you fail to meet the requirements of your visa, you are eligible to be deported.
The article is about visas retard.
non-citizens and illegals have no rights; they can be organ harvested and that just fine.
No, deportation is the limit. We don't have the right to kill them except under truly extreme circumstances. But telling they aren't welcome in the bar anymore is perfectly reasonable. As it turns out, it actually is a members only club.
Right, I know a guy, a Canadian, cool libertarian dude, who is having to go back to Canada because he lost his tech visa. I'm not going to cry over people getting the boot because they're actively supporting murdering rapist assholes. I did suggest that he apply for asylum on the grounds that his country was insane and unsafe for the intelligent, but he didn't think it would work.
There are different types of "immigrants".
Those with permanent residence (Green Card) can not get their green card revoked/cancelled by government agencies over speech or similar wild allegations. Due process is required. An immigration judge alone can revoke it after some conviction for a felony. Misdemeanor is not sufficient.
DHS's claim about this specific individual is questionable but we will have to wait for this matter to reach court where I suspect it will get settled.
Frankly, there are higher priority items for DHS than wasting time trying to deport spouse of a US citizen and a student over some university protest.
This theater is probably to appease jewish moneybags.
He has a green card. Deportation for unwelcome speech is anti-American. If he was sending money to Hamas I could see it.
Is it Constitutional To Deport Immigrants for Political Speech?
Only if they walk. Otherwise, it's just deporting them and I don't think you know what the word 'constitutional' means. We deport immigrants for less than political speech all the time.
What does "less than political speech" mean?
"for offenses that rank lower than engaging in political speech". You're welcome.
Or lower but orthogonal to political speech. An immigrant doesn't have to protest in support of goat fucking to get deported. Simply goat fucking is sufficient.
We kicked Russians out over Tweets on the internet and they didn't even occupy anyone or disrupt anything. Jump a fence at a military base or a research facility or an IVF clinic, occupying a space you aren't supposed to occupy? Yeah, we lock your ass in a cell or boot you out of the country.
I'll never understand the intricate dog whistles that prompt everyone on The Left to terminate their own thought and adopt the mentality of a retarded 3rd Grader on most/any topic.
Yes, I know what "less" means. I want to know how the ranking works.
First, it's HAMAS a terrorist org, not Palestine. Next it's a discussion is it the words or actions.
Finally, show in the Constitution where it says foreign agents have the same rights as citizens. They are guests. When they come, they have to abide by strict laws.
Reason - immigrants can never do any harm ever.
The first amendment as it applies to speech is a restriction on congress and what laws can be made regarding speech. It says nothing about the speaker. Any law restricting anyone's speech (outside of fraud, perjury and things like that) is unconstitutional.
Trump never cared about the Constitution.
You're deeply mistaken. Deporting terrorist supporters shows that Trump does indeed care about the Constitution. Read Marshal's comment below.
Charlie is with the terrorists.
Are you a Latter-day Saint, Truthfulness? I have asked you many times, but you refuse to answer. Why would you hide the fact you belong to the one true church?
Trump is pretty good about following the constitution relative to any democrat president. Your problem is that you see the constitution as something to be weaponized to advance your goals, and failing that, completely ignored.
That is the democrat way.
This is not true. Advocating violence can be restricted if it is considered imminent.
Supporting terrorists is inherently advocating violence since that is definitionally their tactic.
I'd include incitement of violence under "things like that" in some cases (though I question a lot of accusations of supposed incitement). But has this guy done that? General support for Hamas, or even saying that it would be great if they kill all the Jews would not rise to the level of incitement.
I absolutely agree that Hamas are terrorist scum. But we shouldn't forget "you today, me tomorrow". Some people think MAGA are extremists and terrorists too. This shit will come back around some day. We need a culture of free speech and open debate, even if some parties to it are obviously morally bankrupt and wrong.
General support for Hamas, or even saying that it would be great if they kill all the Jews would not rise to the level of incitement.
Says you. This restriction is limited to distinguish between real threats and hyperbole, recognizing that most violent words have zero chance of becoming violent actions. But terrorist organizations already create actual violence so that distinction is already overcome.
Regardless it has been law for ~75 years without challenge.
Eugene Volokh, professor of law emeritus at the University of California, Los Angeles, explains that the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 provides for the denial of entry and deportation of "any alien who…endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist organization."
This is not a criminal determination. Green cards are issued based on some performative agreement with the receiver.
^This
Good point
The first amendment as it applies to speech is a restriction on congress and what laws can be made regarding speech. It says nothing about the speaker. Any law restricting anyone's speech (outside of fraud, perjury and things like that) is unconstitutional.
Get yourself a cognitive test old man, you used to be smarter than this. We have all manner of laws restricting non-violent speech at all kinds of levels. The 1A says Congress can't pass laws restricting free speech. It doesn't say anything about the Executive or the Judicial, it also says specifically the opposite WRT immigration and naturalization. And it leaves the rest entirely up to state and local authorities and citizens.
Your interpretation of the 1A is as retardedly unfeasible and destructive to itself as it is preserving of anyone or anything else.
Due process right is for all the people subject to US laws, citizens or not.
The forms immigrants fill out have many questions about political viewpoint and affiliation. There are also questions specific to support of terror groups. If you lie on the form, it is perjury.
US citizens have privileges and immunities that foreigners do not.
Foreign students and green card holders can go support Judeocidal terror groups like hamas from their home countries. There are MILLIONS of people globally who will gladly take their place, share our American values, and not support Judeocidal terror groups.
If Democrats can jail innocent Trump supporters for peacefully visiting the Capital, then yes Trump can deport immigrants over their political views. Especially because they're immigrants, not citizens, which means they're not protected by the law or the Constitution. Expecting Trump to follow the law is lawfare, immigrants are non-persons, and Democrats did it first. So it's all ok.
And yet another famous Sarcasmic false equivalency here, folks!
This is what passes for logic in Sarc’s tiny, pickled excuse for a brain.
F-ing yawn. Jesus.
No, it's the Mohammad warshipers that are getting deported for supporting terrorism
Nobody on the planet worships Muhammad
You're deeply mistaken, charliehall. You cannot be part of their religion without him.
You worship Joseph Smith more than Muslims worship Mohammed.
Funny thing is they are both sex predators, but at least Mohammed wasn’t in 19th century America.
Yet you support Hamas,
I’ve never claimed to support Hamas! You must have me confused with someone else.
You on the other hand run in the same circles as domestic terrorist, traitors.
We all know you support Hamas. You're not fooling anyone.
Fuck Hamas and Fuck you R Mac.
Stupid white trash redneck.
That explains why you can make a cartoon of Muhammad and not get murdered. Fucking retard.
It's amusing sarc points out his own double standards in the apparent belief that if he does so that makes them go away.
In reality it is "You hypocrites, you're just like me!".
Foreigners can be deported for any reason. Or for no reason. They have no "right" to be here.
Especially not in our student-loan-forgiveness, CRT/DEI-captured educational institutions.
The Constitution says otherwise 5th and 14th Amendment due process requirements along with First Amendment speech and religious protections.
You're deeply mistaken again, charliehall. The 5th Amendment only allows one to refuse to turn in any evidence that may convict them in court.
The 14th Amendment gives former slaves American citizenship. It has nothing to do with migrants, who must follow rules and procedures if they want citizenship themselves.
The 1st Amendment also does not allow aggression, which supporting Hamas does.
He’s so fucking stupid.
Supporting Joseph Smith or Brigham Young should get you deported. They were both charged with treason.
You should be convicted of treason, and then executed.
No you are the traitor! You took an oath to defend the constitution, but you have shown time and time again your allegiance is to Trump. Not America.
You will hang for what you have done to MY country, you white trash, treasonous hick.
Feet first into the chipper you go, KAR the ass-eating, shit-licking, neck-bearded, pedo.
Enjoy life while you can, because real Americans aren’t putting up with you traitors much longer.
We respect the Constitution, so you will just hang. A wood chipper would violate the 8th amendment.
Real Americans just elected a Trump in a landslide. Your kind will be cleansed as McCarthyism returns.
And you don’t know a damn thing about the constitution. You just repeat talking points from MSNBC.
And by the way, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young are long dead. Hamas is very much alive as an organization, amd has just recently murdered Americans and taken them as hostages. You’re with Hamas, therefore you are a traitor.
It will be good when you are executed for your crimes.
"it is unambiguously un-American to punish
peopleAmericans for political speech."Fixed it.
He's not an American.
Like at all.
Part of the issue with Communists was that they were preaching the violent overthrow of the government. Why are Leftist revolutionaries expected to get a pass on these matters?
Because they are (D)ifferent.
This is why McCartyism must return.
No, the Constitution applies protections to everyone on US soil, including foreigners . So no, you can't just round them up for political speech by itself. Be sure and tell them that as they drag you away to the gulag (or Guantanamo Bay ) anyways.
No, the Constitution applies protections to everyone on US soil, including foreigners . So no, you can't just round them up for political speech by itself.
Not according to Trump and his defenders.
More straw, Sarc? At this point, you should just change your handle here to “Strawcasmic”. It’d be far more accurate.
Just let sarc wallow with his fellow leftists while claiming to not be one. It is fucking hilarious.
Yes we know that you judge right and wrong based solely on your perception of a person's political views, not what they actually say.
you judge right and wrong based solely on your perception of a person's political views,
Even if this were true it would make him just like you. Even this filing you consider a problem solely for those you hate.
It isn't true as I disagree with much of the right including the GOPe.
Sadly I can state my agreements with some form of argument unlike sarc.
Hey sarc buddy, tell us why Biden was not, but Trump was, guilty of mishandling classified documents again.
He is right on this
Not at all. All three of you are deeply mistaken. Foreigners do not have the same full rights as citizens, they are required to follow rules and procedures to ensure they maintain their privilege to remain in this country.
I’ll take peaceful protesting foreigners over pedo-enabling traitors like you any day.
You love Hamas supporters. I’m sure you’re all in for exterminating the Israelis too. This is because you’re evil.
I have done no such thing.
You’re the traitor.
If I were you I would just shut the fuck up and try to blend in, because all you white trash, trump fellating vermin are gonna hang.
The only thing KAR will hang is the voluminous folds of fat over his pants. You're a chicken shit. No one is worried about your stupid "threats".
No one’s worried about yours you fucking traitor.
Nope. You might want to try learning about things before your dumb ass comments on them.
According to the law, green card holders can be deported for criminal convictions, not for speech. If you expect the Trump administration to follow the law then you're engaging in lawfare against His Orange Majesty and should be deported too.
Mahmoud Khalil was one of the ringleaders of the violent pro-Hamas demonstrations at Columbia University last year, and Jewish students and some faculty members were assaulted and injured in the process, and there was a great deal of trespassing and property damage. Assault, trespassing and property damage are all crimes, and Khalil tacitly encouraged all of them as one of the people who started the protests.
For Sarc, these are reasons to immediately extend full citizenship.
Cite the law you drunk bitch. Your word means nothing here.
"Is it Constitutional To Deport Immigrants for Political Speech?"
Probably not, but they can be deported for engaging in rioting, looting and vandalism...and possibly for inciting a riot.
That would mean you would support deporting immigrants accused of participating in the events on J6.
But you would never do that. So you're full of shit.
By the way you're just plain wrong anyway. Lawful deportation of a green card holder requires a conviction.
If you can name the illegals involved (and lord knows Biden looked), I'll be happy to consider it.
But there were no illegals at 1/6. If there were, it would have been mentioned.
The guy we're talking about is a green card holder. As in a permanent legal resident.
Though you're probably right. I doubt MAGAs would welcome any immigrants, legal or illegal, into their club. That would be like the KKK welcoming blacks and Jews.
Not a citizen. Feel free to name the green card holder/s at 1/6. They'd ALSO have been mentioned by now.
MAGA has no problem with immigrants. The concern is Americans above all else, as should be the case with the US government and all.
The DNC LOVES immigrants --- to serve as their domestic help. They have NEVER gotten over losing their slaves.
Whatever you say. I don't have the energy for the voices in Jesse's head, nor do I don't have the energy for the nonsense you're arguing.
You do not have to admit defeat. Everybody knows.
It’s ok. Everyone here knows you’re always wrong, and babbling ignorantly about everything.
You’re buffoon.
That would mean you would support deporting immigrants accused of participating in the events on J6.
Notice again how sarc obfuscates the difference between people who engaged in violence and those who merely protested. Hiding this is universal on the left, which you should compare to their insistence the Floyd riots were "mostly peaceful". Their entire worldview can only be maintained by double standards.
Yes yes we know that the MAGA narrative says that every single Floyd protester without exception was a rioter who never got punished, and every single J6 rioter without exception was a peaceful tourist who did nothing wrong.
Doesn't mean it's right. Just makes you an idiot.
The idiot is the person who believes this an accurate summary of events.
In reality sarc and leftists generally insisted on this distinction when their allies were being judged and actively hide it when they judge their enemies. By contrast reasonable people which includes most on the right are only demanding the same standard be use. Revealingly this demand infuriates sarc.
I never once said that rioting is ok. The only people who say that are Trump defenders like you who defend their rioting by saying "They did it first! Why didn't they get punished? Not fair! Not fair! Waaaaaaaahhhh!"
As is always the case, the defense is either "They did it first!" or "You didn't complain when they did it first!"
You guys really need to grow up. You sound like children with older siblings.
I never once said that rioting is ok.
I didn't say you did, so either you can't read or you intentionally changed my assertion to this because you could not refute my actual assertion.
The only people who say that are Trump defenders like you
So we see you are lying again.
You guys really need to grow up.
It's funny the person who lies so their accusations will fit thinks other people don't realize it.
Sarc did complain about unmarked vans in Seattle rounding up violent protestors.
Once again he lies about his past.
No, you just excuse democrat rioters and falsely condemn American protesters.
As with any constitutional issue, SCOTUS has the final say. At one time, the Fugitive Slave Act was constitutional, and women had no vote.
Good times. Remember them well - - - - - - - -
"While the constitutionality of the program is dubious, it is unambiguously un-American to punish people for political speech."
The Constitution and the rights within are not for people here on green cards so they can go to school.
They are for citizens, else a country could sow the seeds of descent by just sending over people from all over the place to create problems. Well, they already do this and kicking them out would be a way to reduce it.
The Constitution applies to everyone in this country equally.
No. Citizens have far more protections under the constitution than non citizens. This has been explained to you.
Wishing won’t change anything. And we already know you’re moronic liar Tony.
Citizens can not be deported and non-citizens can not run for federal office. Anything else?
"Citizens can not be deported"
Lol, dumbass.
hamas is a terrorist organization and when immigrants or visitors complete their applications there is a section where they have to state whether they currently or in the past have supported any terrorist organizations. This paperwork is completed before they enter the United States. Non Americans have no 1st Amendment rights while they are outside the States. Lying on their applications, which they do when they state they have never supported hamas, pij, or any of the other Jew hating terrorist entities, is grounds for revoking their status and deporting them. If they tell the truth, state on their applications they support these terrorist organizations which want to genocide Jews, they won't have a problem if they were allowed to enter the country anyway. They just need to be honest.
Hamas is designated by the US as a terrorist organization. Under 18 U.S. Code § 2339B ... Whoever knowingly provides material support or resources to a foreign terrorist organization, or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years. Pretty sure that deportation is the more desirable outcome for these people.
This is ludicrous. According to Reason's logic, we would have to grant citizenship to those who pledge loyalty to the KKK.
If this guy was white and led a group that intimidated blacks for even the most just cause, do you think libs would have second thoughts about Biden revoking their visas?
Deportation is what happens if you're no longer a citizen, and we control the naturalization process. Just like unemployment is what happens if an employee posts icky things on social media.
I half expect this publication to put up articles expressing concerns about how "companies firing people due to racist speech has chilling effect on 1A". And then the journey to the dark side is complete.
I half expect this publication to put up articles expressing concerns about how "companies firing people due to racist speech has chilling effect on 1A". And then the journey to the dark side is complete.
Perfectly pointed out.
It's SSDD around this place. We're a decade on from no one giving a shit about who actually violated their employment agreement and disclosed James Damore's solicited internal memo to the press. We're still less than 6 yrs. on from everyone getting locked in their homes, having businesses shut down, people being arrested for going to church, and nobody getting pilloried or changing any policies... still less than a handful of years for non-violent protestors being arrested outside abortion clinics and people being mowed down by a mysterious Red SUV... still only a couple years on from "Kyle Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there." but an immigrant on a Visa knowingly engaging in agitation and disruptive behavior on behalf of a terrorist org getting deported? *That's* the case on which the continued existence or fall of free speech happens in The West? GTFO you nonsensical, dishonest, manipulative, drama school flunkies.
One thing I have noticed in all the outrage over these particular deportation orders is no acknowledgement of the associated violence, trespassing, and property destruction. The one mentioned this morning is called a "spokesman" but was also their negotiator and lived in their illegal trespassing camp; whether he personally screamed at Jews and blocked them from going to classes, he was part of the group that did, and his speech is besides the point; you don't free murderers and rapists just because they are shouting political slogans at the same time.
ETA that I fully expect some of these deportations will be legally suspect; but since the outraged commenters and posters refuse to acknowledge the non-speech aspects, their credibility for their alleged innocent cases is shot.
Yeah, actual violence, etc. is another matter. Lest people misinterpret some of my comments above, I should say that while I am an absolutist on free speech, the fact that one is participating in protest does not protect one from the consequences of their non-speech activities.
I am opposed to this deportation and i will concede that this guy is an ungrateful prick that was involved in a law breaking group sympathetic to terrorists. And I think he still has the right to say whatever he wants without repercussions unless he's convicted of any of those offenses.
Personally, I wouldn't deport a green card holder for trespassing, but destruction of property could and violence should be reason for deportation.
He’s not being deported for what he said. He’s being deported for enabling Hamas, a terrorist group that holds American hostages.
You should really get on the correct side of this.
Enabling Hamas? With his opinion? If he's done something criminal, he should be tried with a crime.
I do not think it is simply speech for which he is being deported (?) There was intimidation, violence, breaking and entering and trespassing, no?
I am surprised that Reason would over-simplify the situation or maybe I am?
Conspiracy to violate constitutional rights, General; don't forget conspiracy to violate constitutional rights.
Reason fully supports this person.
There is a world of difference between supporting free speech and supporting this person.
Immigrants (not naturalized citizens) can be deported for any of a variety of infractions. I do believe Hamas is a recognized terrorist organization, so sure. Same thing would happen if someone was in the US supporting the Los Zetas, Jalisco, or Sinaloa.
Afuera!!
It's not easy to get declared a terrorist organization is it?
What a dumb article. Why is Reason so concerned with the supposed rights of non-citizens anyway? Not enough infringement of the rights of actual citizens going on to keep them busy? Anyway, the Biden administration went after some annoying Chinese for similar behavior, even prosecuting them criminally. I don't remember anyone raising Constitutional concerns back then.
https://apnews.com/article/chinese-government-justice-department-new-york-police-transnational-repression-05624126f8e6cb00cf9ae3cb01767fa1
"... charged with using social media to harass dissidents inside the United States ..."
I lived in Mexico for 8 years. One of the first things we were told is that it was unlawful to participate in political protests or demonstrations. We were told to avoid them, even as spectators. It's really not that difficult to figure out. If you're a guest in another country, mind your own business, follow the law, stay off the radar, and you'll probably be able to stay.
I’m surprised Fiona didn’t write this crap.
While the constitutionality of the program is dubious, it is unambiguously un-American to punish people for political speech.
It's not punishing people for political speech. It's punishing them for being terrorist enablers.
Why should America tolerate anyone who is pro-terrorism against America?
"Hamas sympathizers" is left undefined
Pretty sure the definition is in the term.
the term is clearly "used to apply to students who simply support Palestinian rights or who think Palestinians have some right of resistance against occupation."
So, terrorist enablers.
However, it's unclear "whether non-citizens have the same First Amendment rights as citizens with respect to the deportation process."
It's very clear. They have none.
Mahmoud Khalil, a Palestinian graduate student whom a Department of Homeland Security spokesperson vaguely alleges "led activities aligned to Hamas," now faces deportation despite holding a green card, not just a student visa.
What is vague about "led activities aligned to Hamas?" That sounds very very very clear.
Unless you think there is literally anything redeeming about Hamas or their Shia Iranian masters.
NOTHING in the Constitution places ANY limits on deporting non-citizens.
Are you in the US to learn and become a productive person or are you here to be a protesting asshole supporting groups that terrorize? If the latter - don't let the door hit you in the ass as you're escorted out.
Many forms of speech are criminalized, many actions are criminalized. When you say and do something against the founding principles you swore to as a citizen, then you are against the country itself. All men are created equal and we all have religious liberty. So an anti-semitic protestor is despicable. DEPORT EM
Rhetoric teachers love to mock lawyers
====>o Deport Immigrants for Political Speech?
IF it is wrong to deport anyone for political speech , why say 'immigrants' ?
As for 'political' -- if any speech is illegal , opponents will call it 'political speech', right ?
surely, it can't be that because you spoke , politiclly or not ,you are thereby protected from any prosecuation !!! So why word it that way.
Pro-Hamas is anti-semitic. Hamas exists to extirpate Israel
"Since its creation in December 1987, Hamas has invoked militant interpretations of Islam to spearhead a Sunni extremist movement committed to destroying Israel"
DEPORT FOR SURE, and let the lawyers defend destroying Israel, it puts bread on their table.
A "green card" is a trial run for US Citizenship. If someone who is not yet a US Citizen is supporting a terrorist organization, I would say that revoking said "green card" would probably be best to do now rather than wait until they become a US Citizen.
The United States Government, under the Obama Administration, assassinated a US Citizen (Anwar al-Awlaki) for supporting a terrorist organization (Al Qaeda) without Due Process. He was using his speech, not violence, as support for said organization.
Too much tolerance is a weakness of Western Liberalism. Applying the same constitutional criteria to non-citizens is one such example.
The article suggests that FIRE is rolling over, so it's worth noting they sent this letter:
https://www.thefire.org/news/fire-demands-answers-trump-admin-officials-arrest-mahmoud-khalil
8 USC 1227: Deportable aliens
(C) Foreign policy
(i) In general
An alien whose presence or activities in the United States the Secretary of State has reasonable ground to believe would have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the United States is deportable.
Also
(B) Terrorist activities
Any alien who is described in subparagraph (B) or (F) of section 1182(a)(3) of this title is deportable.
Where 1182(a)(3)(B) says
(i)In general
Any alien who—
(VII)endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist organization;
Netanyahu gave billions in untraceable cash to Hamas right up to October 7.
He’s Trumps bum buddy still giving speeches on our mainstream media.
For who in Hamas received it and what they agreed to do for it you’ll need to interrogate Netanyahu and his minions.
Curious
A foreigner legally comes to another country. He involves himself in their politics. Curious! Whence comes his right to do so?
In America? The Constitution. The rights afforded to citizens are afforded to legal immigrants, even students and tourists. Are there limits?
If so, are those limits stricter for legal aliens than for citizens? Should they be?
The alien in question at the moment is a Mohammedan who supports overtly an organization labeled "terrorist" that preaches the destruction of these United States. Even though not a student himself, he participates in a violent demonstration against Israel directly and America indirectly tolerated by Columbia University. Does he have the right to participate, violence excluded? Should he?
“Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.” -The Recital (The Koran), Repentance 9:123
You're kidding, right? There are no constitutional rights for immigrants, we don't even need a reason.
Is it constitutional to regulate businesses who are not engaged in interstate commerce? Is it constitutional to ban drugs? Is it constitutional to take money from some people and give it to other people? Is it constitutional to ban automatic rifles? Is it constitutional to legislate a transfer of power from the Congress to the Executive branch? Is it constitutional to require people to buy health insurance? Is it constitutional to license corporations and protect them from liability? Is it constitutional for the Supreme Court to legislate from the bench? For answers to these and other interesting questions, tune in next Tuesday, same bat time, same bat channel!
They are letting AI figure this out? Really?
Occupying property that is not yours is not "speech."
Threatening other students is not "free speech."
So, you're not asking a question that has any basis to what Trump is doing.
But even if it was what he is doing - these are GUESTS. If someone had come here on a student visa from Germany in 1937 and participated in a pro-NAZI rally, you would, I hope, have no problem with the government revoking their visa.
Well, that is literally what happened here. "From the river to the sea" means "drive out the Jews." These people are NAZIs. If they're not citizens or PRAs, yes, they can and should be tossed out. Don't let the door slam them on the Hamas.
Does the constitution allow deporting aliens because there is probable cause they have or will commit crimes? It seems to me to be possible to show that advocacy of anti-Israel terrorism plus citizenship of certain foreign countries gives a high-enough probability of committing antisemitic hate crimes. We can't lock up people for this, and we can't deport our citizens no matter how much trouble they cause, but IMHO there's been much immigration law that amounted to deporting probable troublemakers without waiting for actual trouble.
Second: On October 6, 2023, Hamas was a terrorist organization, as well as the government of Gaza. The next day, they became so much more. They became a government that formed many supporters into an army without uniforms and sent them to invade a neighboring country (breaking the latest peace treaty) for the purpose of mass murder, gang rape, kidnapping, and torture. This invasion was an act of war, and nearly everything they did were war crimes. Forget terrorism - everyone involved in ordering, planning, and executing that action should be tried for war crimes and executed upon conviction. Those that voice support for those crimes deserve nothing from us.
No its not constitutional to infringe immigrants speech, but they are not being deported for speech, but violating the law. The main difference is due process is different, they dont have to be convicted, just judged guilty by the AG.
(4)Security and related grounds
(A)In general
Any alien who has engaged, is engaged, or at any time after admission engages in—
(i)any activity to violate any law of the United States relating to espionage or sabotage or to violate or evade any law prohibiting the export from the United States of goods, technology, or sensitive information,
(ii)any other criminal activity which endangers public safety or national security, or
(iii)any activity a purpose of which is the opposition to, or the control or overthrow of, the Government of the United States by force, violence, or other unlawful means,
is deportable.
So how does the inalienable right to free speech and protest meet that criteria?
The same way that the inalienable right to not be shot in the face works when you break into my house.
Nobody cares about illegals. Nobody cares about their "rights." You stomp on our goodwill, and we'll stomp on your throat.
Your analogy is as lacking as your “goodwill”.
Nowhere in the constitution does it state that immigrants aren’t protected by it. The nation was founded by immigrants.
He wasn’t illegal, had a green card and was exercising the same 1a rights that you are entitled to.
He wasn’t breaking the law. He was supporting it.
He doesn’t need your idea of “goodwill” for these things.