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Government Waste

Contrary to What Trump Said, Even DOGE Does Not Claim To Have Identified 'Hundreds of Billions' in Fraud

The president's assertion is divorced from reality, and so are the "estimated savings" touted by Elon Musk.

Jacob Sullum | 3.5.2025 2:55 PM

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Elon Musk stands in front of falling cash | Illustration: Lex Villena; Cecilia Fabiano/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom, Pamela Tekiel, White © Cammeraydave | Dreamstime.com
(Illustration: Lex Villena; Cecilia Fabiano/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom, Pamela Tekiel, White © Cammeraydave | Dreamstime.com)

"We found hundreds of billions of dollars of fraud," President Donald Trump claimed in his speech to Congress on Tuesday night, referring to the cost-cutting efforts of the so-called Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE). That figure is far bigger than the total "estimated savings" reported by DOGE itself, only part of which it describes as a result of "fraud and improper payment deletion." And DOGE's estimate is itself dubious in light of the many errors that journalists and analysts have discovered in its published data—so dubious that Manhattan Institute budget expert Jessica Riedl describes the project as "government spending-cut theater."

Last year, the Government Accountability Office estimated that "the federal government could lose between $233 billion and $521 billion annually to fraud." So it is theoretically possible to do what Trump claims. But it would not be realistic to expect such results just a few months after getting started, and DOGE does not claim to have identified anything like "hundreds of billions of dollars" in fraud.

According to the DOGE website, the project so far has found $105 billion in "estimated savings," consisting of "asset sales, contract/lease cancellations and renegotiations, fraud and improper payment deletion, grant cancellations, interest savings, programmatic changes, regulatory savings, and workforce reductions." DOGE does not say how much of that total is attributable to "fraud and improper payment deletion," but it is obviously much less than "hundreds of billions of dollars."

One problem with DOGE's estimate is that it does not distinguish between one-time savings and annual savings. When it comes to reining in federal borrowing, it's the latter that really matters. Another problem is that much of DOGE's calculation remains mysterious. "Regulatory savings," for instance, are not specified. And while lifting unnecessary burdens on businesses would certainly be welcome, the resulting private savings would not amount to a federal spending cut.

The most fleshed-out components of the estimated savings are grant and contract cancellations, which DOGE has touted on its website and X account. But news outlets have repeatedly identified embarrassing and consequential mistakes in those numbers, including contracts that had not been awarded yet, contracts that were not actually canceled, contracts that were canceled before Trump took office, contracts that were counted multiple times, conflation of contract caps with actual spending, the inclusion of past spending in estimates of future savings, and overvaluation of contracts, such as the notorious data entry error that transformed an $8 million Immigration and Customs Enforcement contract into an $8 billion cut.

What about "workforce reductions"? The Office of Personnel Management reports that 75,000 or so employees accepted the Trump administration's "deferred resignation" offer, agreeing to quit in exchange for "a severance package of eight months of pay and benefits." Those departing workers represent about 3 percent of the federal government's civilian employees, who together cost about $300 billion a year in salaries and benefits. The annual savings therefore could amount to something like $10 billion—one-tenth the savings that Elon Musk, the unofficial head of DOGE, projected.

Layoffs of probationary employees could add to the savings. Those employees represent about 11 percent of the federal government's civilian work force, so sacking all of them might generate annual savings in the neighborhood of $30 billion. But as Riedl notes, the potential savings even from "a massive reduction in the federal work force" are "smaller than commonly believed." If the Trump administration managed to eliminate a quarter of federal civilian employees, which would be a tall order, it would "save around $75 billion" a year, she says, "or a little more than 1 percent of federal spending—and many of those savings would likely be reprogrammed into new federal contractors to plug the gaps."

So far, in any case, the Trump administration has not achieved anything close to such personnel savings, and it's not clear how many job cuts DOGE included in its calculation of "workforce reductions." Overall, Riedl said in a recent interview with New York Times columnist David French, DOGE's efforts look like "a distraction" from serious attempts to deal with the federal government's looming fiscal crisis.

At that point, DOGE was claiming $55 billion in total savings. But "most of what is claimed to be spending cuts are just accounting errors," Riedl said. She thought the actual number was "perhaps $2 billion," or "one-thirty-fifth of 1 percent of the federal budget, otherwise known as budget dust."

That figure corresponds with NPR's February 19 estimate of savings from confirmed contract cancellations out of $16.5 billion in contract savings that DOGE was claiming. If we credit some of the unspecified savings that also figure in DOGE's calculation, the total may be substantially higher than $2 billion. Still, if Riedl is right that DOGE's advertised savings are off by this much, it is hard to see how Musk can possibly hit his avowed target of reducing annual spending by $1 trillion (which always seemed improbable) before DOGE sunsets on July 4, 2026.

During last night's speech, Reason's Christian Britschgi notes, "Trump's government-cutting zeal was focused squarely on comparatively small pots of money spent on ungrateful foreigners," which "pale in comparison to the portions of government Trump either is happy to keep around or is eager to expand." That includes major drivers of federal borrowing such as Social Security and Medicare, which Trump has promised to leave untouched, and military spending, which he seems bent on boosting. Although Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is trying to identify savings in the Pentagon budget, that money is already earmarked for other military purposes.

Riedl sees a similar problem with the Trump administration's cost-cutting priorities. She had hoped that DOGE would make a serious attempt to tackle "waste fraud, and abuse," as Trump has described its mission. While such efforts would not be nearly enough on their own to eliminate the annual budget deficit or control the ever-expanding national debt, Riedl wrote last November, "DOGE can potentially save taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars by reducing government waste and improving program efficiency." But she added that such a project would be "hard work" requiring "deep expertise in public administration across multiple subfields."

Instead, Riedl told French, DOGE is taking the easy way out. "The targets they're going after are not where the money is," she said. Targets such as "DEI [diversity, equity, and inclusion] contracts, Politico Pro subscriptions, federal employees, [and] foreign aid…hit a lot of cultural touchstones for a lot of conservatives," she noted, but they don't amount to much in fiscal terms. As Riedl sees it, "DOGE is really a distraction from the spending increases and tax cuts" that Congress seems determined to approve.

As Britschgi notes, "the same House members who applauded Trump's list of wasteful spending…just passed a continuing resolution filled with deficit spending." That plan, Reason's Eric Boehm reported, "will pave the way for trillions of dollars in additional borrowing over the next 10 years." In this context, DOGE is a tiny fig leaf that cannot begin to cover the federal government's naked fiscal incontinence.

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NEXT: Trump's (Un)strategic Crypto Reserve

Jacob Sullum is a senior editor at Reason.

Government WasteDOGEBudget cutsGovernment SpendingFraudFiscal policyBudget DeficitNational DebtDonald TrumpElon MuskTrump Administration
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  1. sarcasmic   3 months ago

    Like facts matter to Trump's Deranged Supporters.

    1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

      You're sure not here much anymore a lot these days.

      Another example of the lies you were denying earlier to Marshall.

      1. sarcasmic   3 months ago

        What happened to you being a passive-aggressive little bitch that doesn't reply to me directly?

        1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

          I was attempting to let you realize that everyone else sees you as a retarded leftist retard as well. Was hoping you'd develop even a smidgen of self realization. I forgot how big an alcoholic you are though like when you claimed to be sober for a week.

          But back to your pathalogical lying. What do you get out of it? I'm actually curious.

          1. sarcasmic   3 months ago

            But back to your pathalogical lying.

            Accusing me of what you are doing while you are doing it, as always.

            1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

              The only accuse you of what you were doing and saying. Because you are a worthless and drunk lying shitweasel Cunt.

              1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

                This.

    2. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   3 months ago

      Trump could say the sky is blue, and Sarcasmic would claim differently just because he can’t stand to have the same conclusion as Trump or anything/anyone associated with Trump.

      1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

        Like Jacob, sarc struggles with even the simplest words like "found."

    3. JFree   3 months ago

      DOGE idea could be an interesting useful way to identify wastefraudabuse. But the idea is completely obliterated by putting a teat-sucking billionaire with a political agenda at the head. And then pretending that that guy running around with a chainsaw is the way limited government should work.

      Regular people - the same people who comprise a jury - are the ones who are easily the most likely to identify wastefraudabuse. That money goes somewhere. It ain't going to regular folks. Apart from govt employees - but normal people understand the stupidity of your average DMV bureaucrat far more than some billionaire who sends their assistants to stand in line at the DMV.

      Regular people are also the ones who have a MUCH better chance of identifying reforms to programs like Social Security. They are not going to trash safety net (obviously) but they are heavily incented to SAVE a safety net by eliminating the stuff in SS that isn't a safety net.

      Regular people are the ONLY ones who can really do controversial reforms. It's why Ireland had a sortition-based citizens assembly to suggest what to do about abortion. They can figure out how to talk about the issues rather than just make political points. In the same way that a group of regular people charged with doing the stuff that DOGE is supposedly charged with would not be setting up a website to crow about themselves as the first thing they do.

      In the same vein - regular folks know they will be back on the other side once the DOGE 'mustering' is done. So if they want anything to be permanent, it has to be implemented the legal way. They don't get points for posturing like Musk/Trump/pols do.

      1. Marshal   3 months ago

        Its amusing the left wingers are suddenly experts in the proper procedure to cut a budget, a procedure they've literally never considered one second in their lives. It makes you wonder about their alleged expertise in other areas.

        1. JFree   3 months ago

          You clowns ain't gonna cut nothing.

          1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

            Lol.

            Thank you for continuing to prove you aren't actually a libertarian.

            Trumps best accomplishment is exposing you retards for who you are.

          2. Marshal   3 months ago

            Keep dreaming.

            Plus he's normalizing that cuts can occur. This drives more future support because it kills your and jeffsarcs ability to claim they don't mean their cuts. The ratchet effect is ending, and one of your most important graft machines is already gone. Your entire electoral strategy is in peril. Once states start eliminating the graft from academia and the left has to compete on a level playing field you're done.

            1. JFree   3 months ago

              He's not normalizing that cuts can occur if cuts don't actually occur. The stuff re old govt databases and COBOL are not about 'SS fraud'. They are about creating new government contracts to recode all govt systems in something newer than COBOL. Which may well be an ok idea - but nothing is a good idea if it starts out in dishonesty.

              1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

                It is amazing watching you idiots claim nothing is getting cut while claiming simultaneously cuts are illegal and unconstitutional.

                1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

                  This is the way of the democrat. Simultaneously advocating for two diametrically opposing narratives.

                  Sarc is a prefect example of this.

              2. Marshal   3 months ago

                Who were those faces Dem politicians were holding claiming they were fired? You guys need to settle on messages that don't contradict each other. Back in the day when you controlled all the media you could get away with this. But not anymore.

              3. Marshal   3 months ago

                Which may well be an ok idea - but nothing is a good idea if it starts out in dishonesty.

                Like Obamacare?

          3. Incunabulum   3 months ago

            You clowns refused to cut anything - so why would we listen to you?

            1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

              Also, why do we allow them to exist?

    4. Bipedal Humanoid   3 months ago

      Ahh, yes. The Democrats are the Party of Facts.

      1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

        With The Truth being a trademark of the Ministry of Disinformation. With Nina Jankowicz as the designated Oarty arbiter of what is The Truth.

  2. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

    Found does not mean stopped Jacob.

    If you actually listened to Musk or Trump or bothered to read the EOs, they are doing what they can legally and constitutionally. Likewise judges have literally issued TROs to stop cuts identified.

    Some of what they find can not be removed until recissions pass congress, see rand Paul. They have given the House and Senators findings from their actions as well for the next spending bill.

    You seem to always take the most dishonest view everything in desperation to give zero credit to an executive actually trying to stop wasteful spending.

    Is this reasons new thing? Attack any and all cuts? A few weeks ago it was congress has to do it. Now it's not enough is happening. Meanwhile completely ignoring congress and judges attempting to stop every cut.

    What fucking clowns you guys have become.

    1. sarcasmic   3 months ago

      Strawman slayer extraordinaire shows everyone how it's done! Bravo!

      *slow clap*

      1. Super Scary   3 months ago

        "strawman"

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTRKCXC0JFg

        1. sarcasmic   3 months ago

          Jesse is arguing against shit that he made up. That's the definition of a strawman. I know you guys think it is effective argumentation because you do it all the time, but that's only because you Trump defenders are intellectually dishonest idiots like him.

          1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   3 months ago

            Sarc, there’s a saying about people who live in glass houses, and you’re distinctly one of them. Puting up strawmen is a routine activity for you.

            1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

              Is it a half million dollar glass house shared with "friends?"

              1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

                No, no. Even better. “Cool dudes”.

      2. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

        How do you still not know what a fucking strawman is?

        1. sarcasmic   3 months ago

          Repeating that over and over doesn't make it true. Though I can see why you might think it is, being that you're a pathological liar who actually believes the shit that you make up to argue against is actually attributed to the person your arguing against, not your imagination.

          1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

            Answer the question. You obviously can’t grasp the core concept.

        2. Marshal   3 months ago

          The same way a fish doesn't know what water is.

    2. Gaear Grimsrud   3 months ago

      JS;dr
      Thanks for the summary.

      1. Vernon Depner   3 months ago

        JS;dr

    3. chemjeff radical individualist   3 months ago

      You seem to always take the most dishonest view everything in desperation to give zero credit to an executive actually trying to stop wasteful spending.

      Yes we know, not giving Trump the infinite benefit of the doubt is exactly the same as "giving zero credit".

      1. DesigNate   3 months ago

        I know right?!

        Endless benefit-of-the-doubt should only be extended to Democrats and faceless bureaucrats. Everyone knows Republicans are just virtue signaling.

        1. chemjeff radical individualist   3 months ago

          How about, no one gets the infinite benefit of the doubt, and Trump should be treated like any other politician, subject to the same political motives a la Public Choice Theory? Is that too much to ask?

          1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

            When have you ever treated him with reverence and benefit of the doubt you reflexively give to every democrat?

            Gonna need a cite for this one.

  3. Uncle Jay   3 months ago

    "Contrary to What Trump Said, Even DOGE Does Not Claim To Have Identified 'Hundreds of Billions' in Fraud. The president's assertion is divorced from reality, and so are the "estimated savings" touted by Elon Musk."

    More bullshit from the uber-leftist Sullum.
    Musk has already identified billions wasted on Social Security alone.
    One can only speculate how many years or decades these 130 and older recipients got their SS checks and how many more SS checks went out to people who have been for years costing the US taxpayers billions.
    One last thing, Sullum
    Any money saved from exposing and deposing fraud in federal government is a great idea.
    But I guess you're comfortable with waste and fraud.
    Sane people are not.

    1. sarcasmic   3 months ago

      Musk has already identified billions wasted on Social Security alone.
      One can only speculate how many years or decades these 130 and older recipients got their SS checks and how many more SS checks went out to people who have been for years costing the US taxpayers billions.

      That's a lie based upon a truth. The truth is that there are dead people in the SS database. Some have been dead for a long time. That part is true. The lie is that those people have been receiving checks for years and years. That's just plain false. Even if it feels true and confirms all of your priors, it's still a lie.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   3 months ago

        You wouldn’t know the truth if it bit you in the ass, Sarc, as you lie here almost as much as Pluggo.

      2. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

        So the "truth" you're hoping to use is that payments are automatically stopped once they hit 125 years of age.

        How many millions were between 100 and 125 years old again?

        In fact here is what was actually cited earlier:

        "almost none of the numberholders discussed in the report currently receive SSA payments."

        Almost is doing some heavy lifting there.

        1. sarcasmic   3 months ago

          Nope, that wasn't what I said. Great strawman though.

          1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

            You still don’t get it.

      3. chemjeff radical individualist   3 months ago

        Jesse admitted that his team's whole strategy is to deliberately lie so as to manipulate their own voters.

        I am quite certain that Elon knows that there aren't long-dead 150-year-olds still receiving SS checks. But he is going to deliberately lie about it anyway, because the point isn't to inform the voters, the point is to rile up the voters with lies so that they demand Congress fix all of that "fraud" that Elon found.

        It was the same with the "Haitians eating pets" lie. They all knew it was a lie. But they repeated it so as to manipulate voters into voting for them.

        They really do have a low opinion of their own voters, so much so that they think they must be tricked, fooled and manipulated into doing what they want, instead of persuaded with facts.

        1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

          Too bad you weren’t in Germany in the 30’s. You would have landed a plumb job under Goebbels.

          1. Vernon Depner   3 months ago

            Or Iraq in the 00's. He would have been a great Baghdad Bob.

    2. Clipton   3 months ago

      Sullum is suffering from TDS.

  4. Liberty_Belle   3 months ago

    Wow, y'all are really drinking the Doge Kool-Aid . Well , at least the courts kept Musk away from everyone's private info ... for now.

    1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

      ^ retarded act blue employee.

      1. sarcasmic   3 months ago

        ^ retarded truth social employee.

        1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

          ^ Stupid drunk shitweasel neo Marxist bitch cunt.

    2. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   3 months ago

      Lose your USAID funding?

    3. Incunabulum   3 months ago

      What are you scared of.

      If this is all legitimate spending that the citizens of the country broadly support - it's good that DOGE is showing that, right?

      Or is this a Libsoftiktok thing - you're upset because people are seeing the things you wanted to hide from them?

      1. Liberty_Belle   3 months ago

        DOGE & government spending have nothing to do with citizens individual tax records. You aren't going to find USAID spending fraud by snooping in Joe & Jane Citizen's tax returns & protected information. Which makes me ask, "Why do they want to poke their nose in people's private business ? " Let's ask Nixon.

        https://youtu.be/kVBOAiMfFR0?t=426

        1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

          Who is doing that besides liberal activists?

          1. Liberty_Belle   3 months ago

            https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/musk-doge-target-irs-tax-records

            Elon Musk and his Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) ignited another controversy by requesting unprecedented access to the IRS' most sensitive data systems. That data includes Social Security numbers, bank account information, and more for millions of U.S. taxpayers.

            Some privacy experts and government officials warn that granting Musk's team access to this private taxpayer data poses significant risks and raises serious concerns.

            1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

              Which records did they access buddy?

              You cite a retard leftist activist as your proof? Show me one accessed tax record. Just one.

              He isn't. He is accessing a database that also has a field with an SSN on some records. He isn't the one searching thr data, federal workers are. This is to find fraud in the system, not individualized tax returns. Do things like write code to catch people who claim the same kid.

              You keep posting baseless bullshit as fact. Tends to be the norm for you idiots.

              Meanwhile your liberal artists are literally downloading tax records of their enemies to hand to liberal journalists.

              1. Marshal   3 months ago

                He's used to writing for idiot left wingers so he just has to reference scary people rather than make sense. It reminds me of when they released Romney's tax returns and made a bunch of idiotic and obviously false assertions. Not one left winger knew enough to understand they were being lied to. They have no useful knowledge since their version of education consists only of how to call people racist/sexist/transphobic.

              2. Liberty_Belle   3 months ago

                Since he was blocked by judge, they now have been purposely limited access to anonymized records.

                https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2025/02/20/white-house-and-treasury-department-agree-to-block-doge-from-personal-taxpayer-data-report-says-heres-what-to-know/

                1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

                  You keep doubling down on what you and other idiots imagine is happening. I'm asking for fucking proof for your claims. Just because liberal activist judges are ignoring norms and ruling based on imagination doesn't mean it's happening dumdum.

                  Go read the claims submitted in that case. There is zero proof for their claims. It is purely speculation lol.

                  1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   3 months ago

                    Pretty sure that's spelled "TDS addled steaming pile of shit"

            2. EISTAU Gree-Vance   3 months ago

              “Some privacy experts and government officials…..”

              Lol. Stop right there……

              How many times will you gullible lemmings fall for this?

        2. Incunabulum   3 months ago

          DOGE isn't shipping on your individual tax records - the IRS is.

          You were fine with it when Biden wanted to track everyone's transactions.

          What are you scared of.

    4. damikesc   3 months ago

      Yes, we just have other unelected bureaucrats who have access.

      Much better.

    5. Rick James   3 months ago

      Yeah, don't let government officials near my private info that the government collected!

      Wait, that didn't come out right...

      1960s: Man, I hope there isn't a wiretap in my home!
      2025: Hey wiretap! What's the proper temperature to cook chicken and how long should I cook it?

      1. Vernon Depner   3 months ago

        350º. Use a thermometer—don't guess about cooking time. That's not safe with factory-farmed meat.

  5. Wizzle Bizzle   3 months ago

    Are Sullum and Boehm in a retard race? Because they are both winning.

    1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

      Oh sarc is way ahead of both. They are playing for 2nd.

      Sarc is so far ahead that he's not really even here much anymore.

  6. Incunabulum   3 months ago

    Do you guys not have any substantive issues with the speech or is it all going to be complaining about hyperbole?

    1. JasonT20   3 months ago

      The normal meaning of the word hyperbole is that it is a figure of speech and that the person speaking obviously intended not to be taken literally. "I'm so tired, I could sleep for a year." That would be hyperbole.

      We've long let politicians get away with greatly exaggerated figures, but it is not hyperbole when they do that. It is lying.

      And the reason it matters is because we see these numbers being thrown around on social media, by political commentators that don't care about factual accuracy, and by voters themselves as if they are real and exactly correct. We see people defending those figures in the face of verifiable facts that contradict them, because their guy wouldn't lie to them. There are plenty of Trump supporters that don't just try and minimize this as hyperbole. They insist that Trump or Musk or MTG whatever MAGA star said something is right, and the lie is that MAGA was wrong about the numbers.

      That is why this is substantive. You don't balance your own checkbook with made up numbers, do you? Why should we think that Trump is going to keep any of his promises if he can't keep from exaggerating the dollar amounts of things to suit his feelings.

      1. chemjeff radical individualist   3 months ago

        Are you new here?

        Around here, Trump gets the infinite benefit of the doubt. Infinite.

        If Trump says something that is incorrect, then he didn't really mean it. Or if he did mean it, he was taken out of context. Or the Democrats made him do it. Or it's all a part of a 9-D master chess game. Or - and this is what happens most of the time - Trump actually WAS correct, here are all of these 'facts' that 'prove' that he was correct, and if you disagree with any of them it only demonstrates you hate Trump and have TDS. End of story!

        1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

          Seethe harder you worthless fatfuck. You lost, and the fun is just beginning.

          Welcome to Trumptopia, bitch.

      2. Incunabulum   3 months ago

        *Akchewalyl*, only Marxists know the real meaning of words . . .

  7. Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)   3 months ago

    Elon (or as Bill Burr calls him 'Cunt Face') said $2 trillion would be found.

    He may get $20 billion.

    1. damikesc   3 months ago

      Does anybody give the tiniest iota of a shit what Bill "The Rich are EVIL --- well, the rich who are not me, obviously" Burr thinks about anything?

      Go be a good monkey and entertain.

      1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)   3 months ago

        I agree that Burr is overrated as a comedian.

        But all good comedians attack pompous assholes. Musk is certainly that.

        1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   3 months ago

          turd, the ass-wipe of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
          If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
          turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

        2. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

          You’ve fallen hard already Kiddie Raper. And you’re gong to fall so much farther. I only wish I could be there when you finally kill yourself.

    2. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   3 months ago

      turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
      If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
      turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

  8. Winston in Wonderland   3 months ago

    Didn't Elon claim that DOGE had found $TRILLIONS in payments to 18.9 Million people over the age of 120?

    1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

      I'm sure you can find the direct quote.

      1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

        Guess he couldn't.

        1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

          Of course he couldn’t. He’s probably another one of those stupid democrat retards that rants and raves on Quora. Saying shit even more ridiculous than what MDNBC reports.

      2. Winston in Wonderland   3 months ago

        He posted it on "X" along with a graph showing age brackets of people he thought were getting social security checks (totals 18.9 million people 120 or older).

        “Maybe Twilight is real and there are a lot of vampires collecting Social Security--This might be the biggest fraud in the history of humanity.”

        1. JasonT20   3 months ago

          And has anyone actually confirmed that 'people' listed as 115 yrs old or older in the SS database are getting checks?

          1. Truthfulness   3 months ago

            Yes. It's called DOGE and man named Elon is in charge.

  9. shadydave   3 months ago

    The libertarian case against cutting spending

    1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

      Except for military and border security. They want those things to go away.

    2. AT   3 months ago

      They're not libertarians.

  10. Lester75   3 months ago

    "and many of those savings (from employee layoffs) would likely be reprogrammed into new federal contractors to plug the gaps."

    This is the whole point. Of course some bloat can be trimmed. However, when a good portion of what is trimmed (hacked at this point) turns out not to be bloat, a large number of employees won't be hired back. Instead the work will be contracted out, usually for more money than the original workers got, and perhaps for no-bid contracts to Trump's donors. It's a great recipe for corruption. Privatizing most of the government is the objective. Will privatization be transparent and multi-bid? What do you think? Will any company not favored by Trump (related to a donor) have a chance? That's hard to believe given Trump's transactional personality.

    1. Marshal   3 months ago

      It's pretty revealing left wingers are already asserting make-believe Trump corruption when they defended Biden's pay to play corruption forever.

      1. sarcasmic   3 months ago

        Translation: Democrats did it first, that makes it ok. Especially because you didn't complain when they did it. That makes it double-plus-good.

        1. Marshal   3 months ago

          Translation: Democrats did it first, that makes it ok. Especially because you didn't complain when they did it. That makes it double-plus-good.

          It's revealing that even when the difference is corruption versus not corruption the only difference sarc recognizes is Dem vs Rep. But the kicker is that he whines other people base their conclusions on D vs R.

          1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

            He’s a retarded drunk hypocrite.

  11. Rick James   3 months ago

    We generally think of government 'mis-spending' as "waste, fraud and abuse".

    Those are three categories which sometimes get blurred..

    Here's a quick, thumbnail sketch:

    Waste: The organization is doing what it claims to be doing, isn't hiding what it's doing, but what it's doing has little to no effect, or actually has a negative effect on the problem it's trying to solve. See: The Homelessness Industrial Complex in any blue city near you. Or... the CDC spending several million a year trying to get more women and girls interested in STEM.

    Fraud: The organization is lying about what it's spending, how it's spending and is either stealing the money or using it for nefarious or alternate purposes, keeping the details hidden from scrutiny. This can be theft, it can be handing out payments for work that is known to not be done, etc.

    Abuse: This can sometimes sit somewhere between 'fraud' and 'waste', but this is where the organization may not be lying about what they're spending, but are using resources or spending money on things that are not entirely necessary, but may not fit a strong definition of 'fraud' or 'waste'. For example, an official with an organization may have a travel budget and expense account for official business, but that travel is used more often than is necessary, more expensive accommodations or travel may be engaged, and expenses may be pushed to the allowed limits, when not necessary to do so. Another example may be just poor logistical control which forces extra expenditures when a better managed system could easily avoid extra expenditures... etc.

    If anyone thinks that a serious, pipe-hitting, get medieval-on-their-ass audit of every federal function and office can't turn up a trillion dollars of "waste, fraud and/or abuse" is out of his fucking mind.

    1. chemjeff radical individualist   3 months ago

      Waste: The organization is doing what it claims to be doing, isn't hiding what it's doing, but what it's doing has little to no effect, or actually has a negative effect on the problem it's trying to solve. See: The Homelessness Industrial Complex in any blue city near you. Or... the CDC spending several million a year trying to get more women and girls interested in STEM.

      False, and this right here is why a lot of otherwise persuadable people are upset with what Elon is doing. What you are labeling as 'waste' are actually just different spending priorities. If you really want to persuade people that Elon is going after 'waste' then you need to come up with a better definition of 'waste' that is ideologically neutral, and not just a cover to justify getting rid of spending that is otherwise worthwhile but just going to causes that you don't like.

      1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

        No. M’kay?

        You pinkos lost. So you don't get to dictate terms. And quite frankly, it takes a lot of nerve to insist on so ehtjng like that after the massive pile of rotting dogshit you democrats shoved down America’s throat for the last four years.

      2. DesigNate   3 months ago

        “difference in spending priorities”: building new fighter jets or building new aircraft carriers.

        Vs

        Waste: military adventurism.

        (I choose those because they’d likely be manufactured in different places, increasing the likelihood of being supported by one team vs the other, though I admit that’s probably flawed as they both love them some MIC.)

        Libertarian answer: anything the federal government does that’s not explicitly laid out in the constitution is technically waste.

  12. Tiger St. Elmo   3 months ago

    Orange Man Bad! Amiright Sullum? You know I have no issue with this leftist pointing out correctly that a lot of this DOGE finding is BS. Whatever. What I am confused about is why Reason is courting leftists. Why does Reason's staff sound almost all leftist. Why did the LP court leftists? I don't know. I left the party and contemplating my renewal on Reason. I find the Mises Wire or Cato to actually be libertarians in their messaging and news. Can't really recall when I saw an economics article in Reason. Veronique doesn't write much here anymore. I dunno it's all confusing.

    1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

      Is Veronica Rugby leaving the sinking ship?

    2. Truthfulness   3 months ago

      DOGE has been showing the receipts. Sullum's just mad that his side's been exposed.

  13. Rick James   3 months ago

    Breaking. Bill Maher in another characteristic 'fit of reason' walks off Pod Save America podcast over retarded trans position taken by the podcasters.

    Bill Maher makes several zigs and zags on the crystalline issue of "what is a woman" to make sure the audience knows that he's one of the cool kids and Orange Man Bad, but when the interviewer demanded that this be entirely an issue between parent and child on the decision to sterilize, and then immediately pivoted to the demand that the government intervene when parents "won't let their child transition", Maher walked off.

    1. Mickey Rat   3 months ago

      Even Maher gets frustrated with the contradictory thinking and motte and bailey debate tactics by the progressive side on trans issues.

  14. MollyGodiva   3 months ago

    Trump is a liar....I am shocked.
    Also anyone who believes Musk cares one hoot about making government better is living in fantasyland.

    1. Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)   3 months ago

      Cope harder.

      1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

        My favorite thing isnthe fake one true libertarians joining the open leftists here. People like jewfree and sarc.

    2. Rick James   3 months ago

      DOGE is just about bringing accountability to government.

      1. MollyGodiva   3 months ago

        Lol. No it is not, never has been. DOGE is firing the people whose job it was to hold government employees accountable.

        1. Incunabulum   3 months ago

          Which they haven't been doing - so they can go.

        2. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   3 months ago

          When i didn't think you could say something more retarded....

        3. Rick James   3 months ago

          DEI is just about being fair to people.

        4. DesigNate   3 months ago

          The federal government is spending trillions of dollars more than they take in and you’re trying to tell us that the people being fired by Trump were doing their jobs?

          Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

        5. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   3 months ago

          Buckle up bitch. It’s gong to be a bumpy ride.

      2. Tony   3 months ago

        If by accountability you mean plane crashes, well done!

        1. Truthfulness   3 months ago

          As a result of DEI hires? Trump and DOGE are making sure that doesn't happen again.

  15. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 months ago

    'The president's assertion is divorced from reality, and so are the "estimated savings" touted by Elon Musk.'

    So, please stop cutting! Right, Sullum?

    1. Truthteller1   3 months ago

      Sullum is a regime bootlicker.

    2. JasonT20   3 months ago

      Beat that straw man harder. He deserves it!

      1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   3 months ago

        Fuck off and die, asshole.

      2. Truthfulness   3 months ago

        You know damn well that you don't want to cut spending. Lose your dishonesty.

  16. Bananas   3 months ago

    Lol

  17. Real American   3 months ago

    Fraud happens when someone promises you one thing in exchange for money and doesn't deliver and had no intention of delivering. That's the case here.

    Much of the money spent by the Government is fraudulent. That number is in the hundreds of billions at least and in the trillions over decades.

    It's fraud since no one knows what it going on. Congress arbitrarily tells the bureaucracy to "spend $xxx billion [a number pulled out some activist's ass] on good things" and we get billions of dollars wasted on useless pet projects by activist government bureaucrats handing out favors to political friends, family, and donors.

    It's fraud because we were promised good for our money and most of it is fucking useless and unAmerican and we can't afford it. Democrats have been looting our treasury for decades and that's ending. That's why they're crying on TV over the spending freezes and proposed cuts.

    1. JohnZ   3 months ago

      Agreed. Makes you wonder what these demoncrats were getting in kick backs.

  18. AT   3 months ago

    Let's just throw in the towel after a month and give the Democrats power forever. That'll work, right?

    1. Scotterbee   3 months ago

      Nah. I vote that they just stop lying.

      1. AT   3 months ago

        They can't. No one can possibly defend any Democrat platform or policy position without relying near exclusively on lies.

        So... what do we do with that.

  19. Zipcreature   3 months ago

    Greybox breakdown
    21/117

    sarcasmic (almost all)
    Chemjeff
    SarahPalinsButtplug
    MollyGodiva
    AT

    Everyone else defunded by DOGE?

  20. Widhalm19   3 months ago

    WTF? Over the past two decades the Pentagon has misplaced a trillion dollars by their own admission. What are you talking about?

    1. Scotterbee   3 months ago

      Why feign confusion when we all know that the "hundreds of billions" he's referring to doesn't include two-decade old Pentagon waste you're bringing up?

  21. JohnZ   3 months ago

    Don't forget the $8 million spent on transgendering frogs.
    We got a winner here, folks. I wonder which useless university got this scam going?

    1. JohnZ   3 months ago

      Aaaannnnddd here's another DOGE moment:
      $95 million spent on EV busses that were never delivered:
      https://www.zerohedge.com/political/waste-day-95-million-worth-ev-buses-were-never-delivered

    2. Tony   3 months ago

      I do declare, $8 million on a science experiment you by definition couldn’t possibly understand? That’s almost 1/8th the cost of Elon Musk’s dick extension surgery. Such waste.

      Thank the lord we have people scrounging for pennies in couch cushions as the big priority of our time.

      1. EISTAU Gree-Vance   3 months ago

        Lol. “You couldn’t possibly understand why we need transgender frogs, so just shut up and pay for it!”

        The best part about all of this doge stuff is that none of it would be happening if you idiots hadn’t gone so far out into lunacy.

        That’s gotta sting, eh tony? Haha.

        1. Tony   3 months ago

          They’re using you for an idiot dude. There’s a huge array of scientific research out there funded partly by government, and they’re picking out some obscure shit to make your child brain go eww and cheer them on for eventually stealing your social security, which is the only place the real money is at.

          I do so love explaining the obvious.

          1. Truthfulness   3 months ago

            Social Security does not create money, doofus. Stop downplaying the frogs.

  22. Tony   3 months ago

    I have always wondered what my personal hell would be, and apparently it’s having to see Elon Musk’s weird face at all hours of the day.

    The truly dystopian thing is that this is the best the richest person in the world could do with the face he started with.

    1. Truthfulness   3 months ago

      Cry harder.

      Elon Musk has exposed you and your side's dishonest and wasteful use of tax spending. We are sick your of your stupidity.

  23. jabbermule   3 months ago

    "news outlets have repeatedly identified embarrassing and consequential mistakes in those numbers"

    Ok, so identify these 'news outlets.' What's that? Oh, you can't without giving away the fact that these 'news outlets' are the same Pravda-esque defenders of the big government left-wing activist Euro-socialist deep state globalists who have been flushing this country down the toilet for nearly 40 years. Or worse, this is a blatant use of the oldest journalism trick in the book: throw an editorial comment out there in order to express your own personal thoughts or feelings, while claiming 'sources have stated' or 'critics say' or in this case, 'news outlets have identified.'

    Stop the horseshit.

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