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Social Security

DOGE and Congress Should Look Hard at Reforming Social Security

Means-test Social Security, raise the retirement age, and let us invest our own money.

J.D. Tuccille | 3.3.2025 7:00 AM

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A U.S. $100 bill in a stack with two Social Security cards. | Yukchong Kwan | Dreamstime.com
(Yukchong Kwan | Dreamstime.com)

The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) is off to a decent start in making initial cuts in federal waste and overall cost and—importantly—normalizing the reality that reducing government expenditures is a good thing. But if the DOGE is to live up to its avowed mission of making the bloated federal government even slightly affordable, at some point it's going to have to take on the big dogs of government excess. That requires congressional cooperation, and it means targeting Social Security.

You are reading The Rattler from J.D. Tuccille and Reason. Get more of J.D.'s commentary on government overreach and threats to everyday liberty.

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Social Security Is Expensive and Foundering

"The Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund will be able to pay 100 percent of total scheduled benefits until 2033, unchanged from last year's report," the Social Security trustees revealed in the most recent annual report. "At that time, the fund's reserves will become depleted and continuing program income will be sufficient to pay 79 percent of scheduled benefits."

Disability insurance is in better shape. But rolling that "trust fund" (keep in mind that there's no such thing—it's just claims on future tax revenues) into OASI would buy just two more years of full benefits.

Well, then we'll have to spend more to keep benefits up, right? In fact, two-thirds of Americans say they want the government to spend more on Social Security, according to A.P.–NORC pollsters. But here's the thing: Social Security already constitutes more than one dollar out of every five spent by the federal government. Other entitlements—Medicare, in particular—raise entitlements' share of the federal budget to half. In 2024, the federal government spent over $1.8 trillion dollars more than it collected in taxes, which is expected to rise to a $1.9 trillion deficit this year and to grow to $2.7 trillion in 2035, adding to an already $36 trillion national debt.

To spend more on Social Security, either taxes must be raised by a huge amount to eliminate that deficit and allow for more generous benefits, or other federal programs will have to be gutted.

But majorities of Americans already say taxes are too high. "Two-thirds of U.S. taxpayers say they spend 'too much' on federal income taxes," A.P.–NORC found last January. "Ninety-three percent (93%) believe American families and businesses are already paying enough in taxes," a U.S. Chamber of Commerce survey revealed in September.

Social Security is the biggest federal expense. The next priciest items are other entitlements including Medicare and Medicaid, and Americans want to spend more on them, too. Defense is next, and while there's room for cutting there, it's nowhere near enough to close the deficit and save Social Security.

Some politicians claim that we can grow our economy enough to make up for Social Security's shortfalls. But that won't work. "Because Social Security benefits are indexed to wage growth, as wages increase, so do benefits," explains the Cato Institute's Romina Boccia and Dominik Lett. "Therefore, while higher wage growth boosts revenues, it simultaneously raises the future benefits owed to retirees."

Complicating the issue, add Boccia and Lett, is that "improvements in life expectancy and a declining birth rate mean that a shrinking group of workers is supporting an increasing number of retirees even if macroeconomic conditions are sound."

The federal government is in a fiscal mess. At some point, either the U.S. government defaults on the debt and cripples the economy; pays it off in inflated dollars that will have little purchasing power, crippling the economy; or gets its house in order. The DOGE's founders know that.

"America is going bankrupt extremely quickly, and everyone seems to be sort of whistling past the graveyard on this one," Elon Musk warned last October.

If the federal government can't pay benefits—or, just as bad, pays them in devalued dollars that buy virtually nothing—nobody gets anything of value. To survive at all, Social Security needs to change.

Reforms To Make Social Security Affordable

Cato's Boccia proposes that the Social Security eligibility age be raised by three years (to 65 for early retirement and 70 for full retirement). That makes sense. When the program was introduced in 1935, with retirement age at 65, the average life expectancy for men was 59.9 and for women it was 63.9. Infant mortality was higher at that time than now, which pulled down life expectancy. But still, the creators of Social Security anticipated that fewer than 40 percent of women who made it to adulthood and roughly 46 percent of men would die before collecting a penny. With many more Americans living longer and healthier, 70 is a modest adjustment to the retirement age.

Boccia also points out that retirees over the age of 65 have on average triple the net worth of workers between the ages of 35–44. It's perverse to tax hard-working younger Americans for the benefit of wealthier older ones. She suggests that "Congress should means-test Social Security, returning to the program's stated purpose of antipoverty protection in old age."

Some more savings could be found by linking cost-of-living adjustments in Social Security benefits to the chained CPI, which is more accurate than other measures in reflecting how consumers respond to changing prices.

Better Benefits Through Personal Planning

But if Social Security is turned into a means-tested support program for lower-income Americans retiring a little later in life than in the past, what becomes of the rest of us? We all can and should plan for our own future. A reformed Social Security would be cheaper and would presumably be paid to low-income earners from general revenues rather than based on today's high payroll taxes, leaving more room for private investment. With Social Security's finances so rocky and benefits in question, everybody should be making their own plans anyway. It's an opportunity for a more prosperous retirement than Social Security could ever realistically offer.

"Over 99 percent of the U.S. population would have earned a greater return by investing in the S&P 500, and over 95 percent would have earned a greater return by investing in 6-month CDs relative to the current Social Security system," Thomas Garrett and Russell Rhine wrote in a 2005 analysis for the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis comparing Social Security with private retirement accounts. The math hasn't changed since then.

Social Security isn't just bloated and unaffordable, it also stands in the way of a better old age for the vast majority of Americans. Fixing Social Security would improve the federal government's finances while offering us all better benefits.

The Rattler is a weekly newsletter from J.D. Tuccille. If you care about government overreach and tangible threats to everyday liberty, this is for you.

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NEXT: How Would Milton Friedman Do DOGE?

J.D. Tuccille is a contributing editor at Reason.

Social SecurityDOGEElon MuskGovernment SpendingDeficitsBudget DeficitNational DebtCongressEntitlementsTrump AdministrationReformPolicy
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  1. Roberta   1 year ago

    ...

    Thomas Garrett and Russell Rhine wrote in a 2005 analysis for the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis comparing Social Security with private retirement accounts. The math hasn't changed since then.

    When you have something new to write about, let us know.

    1. Moderation4ever   1 year ago

      I have a lot of problems with comparing private accounts to SS. First most private accounts are started by people with extra money to invest. There is no guarantee that people will use private accounts if SS is not present. The second is that access to private accounts may not coincide with retirement plans or needs. People might be prohibited from retiring if the market is significantly down. Finally, I worry that scam artist would be looking for people money. Most private investors are sensible people that pay attention to their investments. This might not be true if everyone was required to invest for retirement.

      All that said I would like to see people have options for investing with their SS account. I think the money should be deducted to an individual account, allow a portion of the account to be invested in the market, that available investments options be screened to exclude scams and high-risk investment devices.

      1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   1 year ago

        Some people will opt out so we have to force everyone to do something is a take i guess.

        1. Moderation4ever   1 year ago

          Everyone knows that the easiest way to save money is not to ever get the chance to spend it. That why 401s work well because the money is deducted before a person ever really see the money. They simple work with a smaller check. Some people opt out because they want to spend their retirement and assume the government will still end up taking care of them. I don't have any sympathy for those people. But people living paycheck to paycheck may not be able to save and I care about them. I would rather have the money deducted so they have something at retirement.

          1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   1 year ago

            Again. I repeat. You want to force people to do what you wish. That's a take i guess.

            1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   1 year ago

              Retards like Mod think that no one can run their own lives without idiots like him to control everything.

          2. Rossami   1 year ago

            You're missing the point that those folks are "living paycheck to paycheck" in part because such a huge portion of their paychecks are already being confiscated for this compulsory "savings" scheme. Give them all that money back and they'll actually have something to save.

          3. DrZ   1 year ago

            Use tax revenues to contribute a minimum to an individual account. After that, contributions can be made by the holder via salary or wages, charities, the holder's grandmother, etc.

            1. Ikeepsearching   1 year ago

              sure, how many 28 yr olds are going to save? Not me I tell you, when I was 32 my boyfriend said jeeze you need to start a 401K (at the time called TDSP at IBM). I said why? I'm not retiring for years and years, seriously, young people need to be forced, btw I did start a TDSP with 5K back in 92 I know have 45K in it, not great but would buy a car (minus taxes paid on said 45K) You'll be dead and so will I so let's see what Millenials and Zrs say. I say force them, they'll thank our dead ashes when the time comes.

      2. Overt   1 year ago

        1) This is always the sign of a committed leftist: people don't do what is in their best interests, unless we tell them they must. It is the conceit of "smart" people whose narcissism leads them to think that billions of people survive only because "Moderates" like them are there to tell them WTF to do.

        Nevertheless, if you are already forcibly withholding money from people vis FICA taxes, then there is no reason that money cannot go to private accounts. There- your objection is solved.

        2) "The second is that access to private accounts may not coincide with retirement plans or needs." This just shows how un-smart "smart" people are. This problem has been solved for with asset mixing for decades. As a person nears retirement, funds that are likely to be needed in the next 5 - 10 years are moved into less risky assets.

        All of this is easily solved for. The reason M4E does not see these easy solutions is that they actually, in reality, do not want a solution where they get to tell people what to do from cradle to grave.

        1. Idaho-Bob   1 year ago

          All of this is easily solved for. The reason M4E does not see these easy solutions is that they actually, in reality, do not want a solution where they get to tell people what to do from cradle to grave.

          Don't forget - they also get to steal from people who do not need to be financially managed.

        2. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   1 year ago

          Which is laughable. As leftists are quite stupid. So much so they should be muzzled and kept on leashes.

        3. Ikeepsearching   1 year ago

          committed leftist? do you know and hang with any 'committed leftists'? seriously dude it's YOUNG people not left or right. Sheesh get a brain.

      3. GroundTruth   1 year ago

        most private accounts are started by people with extra money to invest

        No! Most private accounts are started by people who make the difficult choice to save a bit for later rather than spend it all now. Life's necessities are far fewer than most people care to admit.

      4. Medulla Oblongata   1 year ago

        Ideas so good they need to be backed up with force.

        1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   1 year ago

          Democrats should be euthanized.

      5. See.More   1 year ago

        There is no guarantee that people will use private accounts if SS is not present.

        That's their problem not mine. It is not a proper function of government to compel taxpayers to invest for retirement, neither through SS nor private retirement investment vehicles. That is solely a function of individual responsibility.

        In other words: fuck off slaver!

  2. Mickey Rat   1 year ago

    Yes, and with the GOP having only a single seat majority in the House, they do not have the political capital to tackle such a reform, and the Democrats will not do such a thing. So, that will not happen until they cannot avoid dealing with the collapse of Social Security because the electorate will be against it.

    1. VULGAR MADMAN   1 year ago

      A good portion of the electorate is apparently horrified that programs for drag shows in Azerbaijan are being cut.

      Have fun cutting social security.

    2. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   1 year ago

      Which will make ut Trump's fault.

    3. JFree   1 year ago

      Reform of SS has always required a bipartisan supermajority solution. Anyone who proposes anything which doesn't lead there is not serious but is just virtue signaling

      1. Mickey Rat   1 year ago

        Which has a problem as Social Security is one of the primary ways the Democrats seek to corrupt the electorate by bribing them with the electorate own money. They have no interest in truly reforming SS.

        1. JFree   1 year ago

          That's not a 'problem'. If that is true, that is merely the reality that we exist in and that needs to be changed if we are to reform the program.

          The worst thing one party/side can do is to simply ignore the reality and propose a partisan 'solution' that is intended not to solve anything but to demonize a major part of the electorate. That indicates that they aren't serious about reform either. That it is all just posing for electoral politics.

          1. Mickey Rat   1 year ago

            It is a problem because the system does not work like the New Dealers sold it as and it is unsustainable. Going over the cliff will not be good for anybody despite the public not seeing it.

            1. JFree   1 year ago

              'Going over the cliff' is exactly what will make people realize that it is not an entitlement. Nothing is worse than trying to 'fix' a problem that is decades out into the future.

              I remember the 1983 'fix' when I was still in college. Raise FICA taxes. Create the 'trust fund' which doesn't buy actual assets but buys govt debt (at a time when govt debt for all the wars and spending in history was just over $1 trillion). Jerk around with the measures of inflation to reduce the COLA but also distort growth measures. And take it all out of the budget process. Supposedly done in part to 'solve the boomer problem' at a time when there were virtually no boomers in Congress.

              The result is that it didn't fix a fucking thing. What it did do is ensure total silence and a 'third rail' of politics mindset - a phrase which was created at that time about that debate. I would never have expected that my entire working life would de facto prohibit all discussion of that issue like the plague. How could any 20 year old expect that - or give a shit about 'fixing retirement'.

              Multiyear 'fixes' are the scam. No Congress should be allowed to commit future congresses to big spending programs. It should be part of a big discussion every congress.

              1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   1 year ago

                Basically, this all the fault of people like you, and the other leftist filth here. Just like our antisemitism problem.

                It’s all you.

        2. Stupid Government Tricks   1 year ago

          As far as I know, Bismarck started the state Ponzi pension plan ball rolling in Germany around 1880, with the specific goal of tying pensions to the state to reduce people's revolutionary urge. FDR bragged with his cronies that SSA's Ponzi nature would make it impossible to undo.

          Strangely enough, US state employee pensions do come from market investments. They are badly underfunded, meaning they are backstopped by general taxation funds, but they could stand alone, unlike SSA.

    4. DrZ   1 year ago

      Why, the Democrats might even claim that Republicans want to push granny off of a cliff. You never know.

  3. Moderation4ever   1 year ago

    Solving the problems with Social Security requires that the two major parties work together and, in a country, as divided as this that seems impossible. There is not a simple solution like raising the eligibility age or raise the caps on social security taxes. What it will take is a reevaluation of the program followed by a reengineering and that a lot more work than most Congress people are willing to put in.

    1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   1 year ago

      Democrats don't want to change it, why they keep changing eligibility to expand it. But sure. Both sides.

    2. Overt   1 year ago

      "There is not a simple solution like raising the eligibility age or raise the caps on social security taxes."

      Why not? The most likely outcome is indeed raising the eligibility age.

      1. JFree   1 year ago

        Raising eligibility age is not a serious proposal. Blue collar workers are often disabled by regular retirement age - and they also die earlier because of ill health. Nor are they the financial problem.

        Employers have little interest in employing over50's in many industries. They sure aren't interested in hiring over67's. So they aren't a solution

        The high income, white collar can extend their work career by consulting and some such. And this group is the entire actuarial problem since life expectancy (and hence SS payments) is 10-15 years longer than it is for blue collar or lower income folks. But no one even talks about different groups like this and certainly no one talks about an actuarial solution like extending retirement by 10-15 years for any subgroup.

        1. Overt   1 year ago

          JFear is once again spouting shit that JFear does not know about. He thinks that "Blue collar workers" die earlier because it sounds right in his head. Has he tested this by actually looking at the data? Of course not. Because this is what JFear does- bloviate about shit he doesn't understand. It reminds me of the times he was just certain that in Asia, masking works- then when I point out that the data disagrees with him, he just starts making up reasons why the data shows that (all that time ignoring how these new justifications invalidate his original premise).

          https://reason.com/2023/05/03/surgeon-general-vivek-murthy-refuses-to-acknowledge-the-governments-misrepresentation-of-mask-research/?comments=true#comment-10048977

          For the record, blue collar workers ALREADY are more likely to work past 65 than White Collar workers, which completely invalidates JFear's point. I am guessing that JFear really doesn't know any blue collar workers. I do. I know former firemen who are now handymen part time while drawing SS. I know construction workers who continue to do remodling in their 70s. Yes, their bodies are beat up and they live with pain. They have been doing it for the past 50 years, since they were children. They work nonetheless. A select few took disability, beginning their retirement early- these tend to be the people who were saving most of their life and don't need to work to supplement these costs.

          For the record, the life expectancy of everyone in the country, including blue collar workers, has been rising ever since the creation of SS, only starting to drop post COVID. Blue Collar workers may have lower life expectancy than white collar, but they still have a higher life expectancy than the people who originally drew SS. The average life expectancy of a 65 Year old Male as of 2021 is 17 years. By comparison, in 1940 the average expected life expectancy was less than 13.

          Contrary to JFear's ackkshewally nonsense, many, many people talk about and look at different groups. But as we see above (and any time JFear posts, really) being spectacularly wrong is JFear's MO.

          1. JFree   1 year ago

            Has he tested this by actually looking at the data?

            I don't need to. Congressional Research Service has compiled the data specifically re its effects on Social Security

            For example, a 2015 study by the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) found that for men born in 1930, individuals in the highest income quintile (top 20%) could expect to live 5.1 years longer at age 50 than men in the lowest income quintile. This gap has increased significantly over time. Among men born in 1960, those in the top income quintile could expect to live 12.7 years longer at age 50 than men in the bottom income quintile. This NAS study finds similar patterns for women: the life expectancy gap at age 50 between the bottom and top income quintiles of women expanded from 3.9 years for the 1930 birth cohort to 13.6 years for the 1960 birth cohort.

            Obviously the 1930 cohort is mostly dead now. The 1960 cohort is precisely the one that has a big effect on SS going forward. Hey presto - 12.7 and 13.6 years also aligns with my 10-15 years assertion. Golly.

            differential gains in life expectancy increased the disparity in the lifetime value of Social Security retirement benefits between the top and bottom earnings quintiles by about $70,000 (in 2009 dollars) for the later birth cohort.

            In response to rising life expectancy, some commonly discussed Social Security reform proposals involve increasing the retirement age. These proposals would affect low earners disproportionately (i.e., reductions in their lifetime Social Security benefits would be considerably larger than for high earners).

            IOW - exactly what I'm saying for two of my points. The third one - re employers inability and unwillingness to keep older workers in the workforce - is also true. As anyone over 50 who's ever tried to find a job after being laid off knows.

            Thanks for playing. Idjit. For the record. How's the crypto pimping and scamming going?

          2. See Double You   1 year ago

            JFree's solution is, of course, more redistribution. Notice how he did not object to increasing the payroll tax cap.

  4. swillfredo pareto   1 year ago

    Fixing Social Security would improve the federal government's finances while offering us all better benefits.

    None of the proposed solutions "fix" Social Security because it is a pay-as-you-go program. It is is an inherently corrupt scheme, and raising the retirement age, reducing the benefits, increasing taxes and means testing do nothing to address that fundamental reality. The solution is to scrap it.

    And that will never happen.

  5. Sometimes a Great Notion   1 year ago

    Won't happen. Rs are too chicken shit, to tackle and the Ds - well they don't know what a woman is - are completely useless. The USA will burn while Congress fiddles their skin flute.

    1. SQRLSY   1 year ago

      The skin flute is SNOT allowed without a prescription, so BEWARE!!!

      To find precise details on what NOT to do, to avoid the flute police, please see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/DONT_DO_THIS/ … This has been a pubic service, courtesy of the Church of SQRLS!

  6. SQRLSY   1 year ago

    "Means testing" is a VERY crappy idea, and I am disappointed that Reason repeatedly supports it! What "means testing" says to responsible hard-working sober-minded people is, "For your extra hard work and restrained, sober-minded spending... Forgoing super-dandy vacations, mansions, fast cars, yachts, hookers, and cocaine, you FOOL you... We will withhold YOUR contributions from you, comes pay-back time, and send shit, most if not all, to your spend-thrift neighbors who DID spend shit all on super-dandy vacations, mansions, fast cars, yachts, hookers, and cocaine!!!!

    1. GroundTruth   1 year ago

      I would submit that "means testing" means to reduce SS to a minimal program to guarantee that no one starves or freezes to death. Figure the cost of providing the person with 2000 calories each day, a bunk with about 75 square feet of barracks space with a common bathroom down the hall. That, a couple of pairs of the cheapest jeans and shirts, a few changes of underwear and socks, and a warm coat and cap in colder regions is it. None of that would cost at all what we're spending, and could be paid for out of the general treasury and kill off the explicit SS program.

      And you get that only after signing a pauper's oath! There is no reason I should be paying for my neighbor's trip to Florida each winter, or that they should be paying for my new bathroom.

      1. SQRLSY   1 year ago

        GroundTruth, I would support your program so long as medical costs are sharply constrained, for this program... Say ??? $20 K per year, per person... Otherwise we'll spend millions to sustain a few elderly lives for a few months. Ever notice how HUGE a difference there is between costs for human v/s animal health care? I would LOVE to be able to legally declare myself to be a dog, so that I can get affordable health care! PS, at the VERY least, recipients of these very basic (free) medical services should IRON CLAD be required to forgo the lawsuit lottery! (Right to sue, gone.)

        1. GroundTruth   1 year ago

          I've been commenting on the disparity between human and veterinary medical costs for years. A large part of the issue is that people have insurance therefore think "now I can use as much as I want without worry". Just so long as we don't start going down the vet pathway of saying "he's in pain, not going to get better, so we're going to end it for him". How 'bout expecting everyone to pick up all of their routine medical costs, allow a large, significant tax exempt medical savings plan for large but common items (orthopedic, ob/gyn come to mind), and a true insurance plan for extreme cases (ex: cancers, massive trauma)?

          1. SQRLSY   1 year ago

            Agreed! (Agreed all around. I don't like euthanasia for humans either.)

            1. Eeyore   1 year ago

              Not even for the free version of healthcare?

              1. SQRLSY   1 year ago

                Euthanasia for animals is OK by me. I like to eat meat! PETA = People Eating Tasty Anuimals! Most farmers treat their animals fairly well, because abused animals don’t produce as much milk, meat, eggs, fur, etc., as the well-treated ones. And we as pet owners can MOSTLY be trusted to care for our pets, comes time to make euthanasia decisions. None of us will be rolling in inheritance money from sending Fluffy or Fido off to an early demise. We are on a level above our pets, but not on a level above our fellow humans (therefor shouldn't act as Gods towards fellow humans). When vastly superior space aliens land here, if they scratch me behind the ear just right, for nothing other than the delightful purrs that I emit, then MAYBE I will trust them to make euthanasia decisions on my behalf!

              2. SQRLSY   1 year ago

                A longer take on why meat-eating and euthanasia for animals is OK by me, is below...

                (Short version up top).
                Ralph Waldo Emerson, who said, ‘The State must follow, and not lead, the character and progress of the citizen.’

                Here is the full-blown quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson:
                ‘Republics abound in young civilians who believe that the laws make the city, that grave modifications of the policy and modes of living and employments of the population, that commerce, education and religion may be voted in or out; and that any measure, though it were absurd, may be imposed on a people if only you can get sufficient voices to make it a law. But the wise know that foolish legislation is a rope of sand which perishes in the twisting; that the State must follow and not lead the character and progress of the citizen; that the form of government which prevails is the expression of what cultivation exists in the population which permits it. The law is only a memorandum.’

                Another relevant Emerson quote:
                “All men plume themselves on the improvement of society, and no man improves.”
                So anyway, suppose that Government Almighty goes too far, and mandates no-meat diets, which many people disagree with, just like the War on Drugs today…
                Then there will be underground, makeshift, amateurish animal-killing-and-butchering shops, where the animals will be treated far less humanely than they are today! (Thank You Do-Gooders!!!)
                You will not be able to let Fluffy or Fido wander through the bushes in your own back yard, for fear of meat-hungry lawbreaking pet-snatchers!
                (But, Meat-Hungry Lawbreaking Pet-Snatchers would make a MOST EXCELLENT name for a garage band!)

              3. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   1 year ago

                I see that. Feral squirrel has started gibbering. Let’s boil it in acid.

                1. SQRLSY   1 year ago

                  Hey Punk Boogers! HERE is your “fix”! Try shit, you might LIKE shit!!!

                  https://rentahitman.com/ … If’n ye check ’em out & buy their service, ye will be… A Shitman hiring a hitman!!!

                  If’n ye won’t help your own pathetic self, even when given a WIDE OPEN invitation, then WHY should ANYONE pity you? Punk Boogers, if your welfare check is too small to cover the hitman… You shitman you… Then take out a GoFundMe page already!!!

                  Also, in case of a “miracle happens here” and ye want to get OFF of welfare and get yourself an honest, respectable, upstanding-kinda JOB, then be advised that rent-a-hitman is HIRING! See https://rentahitman.com/careers-1

                2. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   1 year ago

                  Or maybe burn it at the stake, and then throw it in a vat of acid.

      2. Medulla Oblongata   1 year ago

        This akin to my own program of replacing EBT/SNAP/WIC with free rice and beans. I don't want anyone to starve to death, and rice and beans are a good steady stable cheap source of calories and protein. But why should I pay for cookies, corn chips and soda? Let alone rabbit meat and organic salmon (https://www.salon.com/2010/03/16/hipsters_food_stamps_pinched).

        When I was a kid, I used to cry about "I'm hungry" and my mother always said "Well, there's a can of corn in the pantry, I could heat that up for you." I never once ate that can of corn.

        1. SQRLSY   1 year ago

          Cool!

          Funny thing is, most if not all of us would be better off eating that can of corn instead of cookies, candy, and ice cream! "I'm hungry for this exact thing" means that I'm not REALLY truly hungry!

        2. Eeyore   1 year ago

          Cruel. Some people can't digest beans.

          1. Medulla Oblongata   1 year ago

            Better like rice then.

        3. Eeyore   1 year ago

          https://www.americanbeverage.org/initiatives-advocacy/protecting-consumer-choice-freedom/protecting-snap-beverage-choice/

          Maybe snap should cover weed and fentanil?

  7. Longtobefree   1 year ago

    "To spend more on Social Security, either taxes must be raised by a huge amount to eliminate that deficit and allow for more generous benefits, or other federal programs will have to be gutted."

    Here's a wild and crazy thought. Cut all transfer payments to able bodied citizens, and when they get a job there will be more tax revenue for a few more years of the ponzi scheme. Then fix the retirement age to escalate with longevity, like a cost of living thing.

    The only other effective approach is to pick a year, and no one born that year or after has to pay SS taxes, and they can never receive any SS benefits. For a few years general revenue will have to plug the gap, but then the problem is fixed.
    Of course, if DOGE completes it's job, there will be enough money for this to actually work.
    (We will probably have to outlaw the democrat party to get this passed)

  8. sarcasmic   1 year ago

    Trump said he's not going to touch entitlements. That means anyone who wants to reform them is a leftist.

    1. VULGAR MADMAN   1 year ago

      More demented with each passing day.

      1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   1 year ago

        You'd become demented too if you lacked self awareness and thought you were intelligent only to see every one of your beliefs be proven wrong.

    2. Medulla Oblongata   1 year ago

      You have nothing to contribute except to chuck spears at a strawman?

    3. VinniUSMC   1 year ago

      The only time the Left "wants" to reform entitlements is when they think they can use it as a cudgel against the right.

      "See, they aren't serious about reform, because they're not willing to risk blowing up their careers." Yet, every chance the Left gets, they buy votes increase entitlements.

      So, fuck off, fuck you, cut spending. Hypocritical drunkard child-abusing piece of Leftist shit.

    4. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   1 year ago

      If he even signaled that he was considering possibly maybe making tiny adjustments to SS, you and your democrat masters would shriek and howl.

      So fuck you, you stupid drunken cunt.

  9. lwt1960   1 year ago

    I might be alone in this, but when I started working almost 50 years ago, I firmly understood SS was a forced, gov't sponsored retirement plan, much as JD described. Over the years, it became apparent it is no such thing. It is a tax, like every other tax, which gets thrown into a pot for politicians to spend as they please.

    The solution is not reform, it is dissolution. Much like when Iraq fell and the call for privatizing the oil industry and giving their citizens shares in the new entity to do with as they pleased, so SS should be discontinued and the balance of the "trust fund" (if that even really exists) be distributed to all living citizens based on the PV of their lifetime payments into the system.

    If the people want a wealth transfer system to replace it, let the legislators propose it, negotiate it and vote on it. Then the voters can decide if that's what they want.

    Then I woke up...

    1. Medulla Oblongata   1 year ago

      " I firmly understood SS was a forced, gov't sponsored retirement plan, much as JD described."

      It never was any such thing.

      "Over the years, it became apparent it is no such thing. It is a tax, like every other tax"

      It has always been this.

  10. TWW   1 year ago

    'Means' testing Social Security distributions is effectively an income tax...on income that has already been taxed once.

    1. Medulla Oblongata   1 year ago

      Means testing lays bare the fact that SS is a welfare entitlement, dropping the mask that it's some sort of earned benefit--it never has been an earned benefit, mind you, but the 'universality' of the benefits helped pretend it is.

    2. Longtobefree   1 year ago

      Actually taxed twice?
      Payroll tax
      Income tax

  11. Thoritsu   1 year ago

    The current program has to die, and we are going to have to pay it off. Have to start phasing people off it, while they still pay, since it is an pathetic free-now/pay-later scheme, that would be illegal if done privately. FDR was a scum.

    Phase people off the present program, starting at no change to people >60, ramping to zero for people 40 yrs old, or something like this. Have to keep paying because it is a scam. Call it "FDR Payments" or "Failed Socialism Payments" to memorialize the useless totalitarian-socialist scum.

    Then start a new program, requiring people to invest in retirement (the government has to do this because they are too irresponsible on their own...). Set up a basic government plan, and requirements for substituted private plans. Require a percentage of your salary to be put into this plan, until a certain level is achieved (some definition of retirement "security"). The Government, including Congress, can NEVER touch these funds. This program is all "go forward", and there is no issue with solvency unless it is totally mismanaged.

    People in the next 20 years will be paying for both. Too bad. That is just what we have to do, to make up for the pathetic, failed FDR socialism of the past.

    1. Stupid Government Tricks   1 year ago

      I'm interested in any details you've thought of on such schemes. Mine is posted right after.

    2. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   1 year ago

      The democrats also have to die if we want to fix anything. Or at least be removed.

  12. Stupid Government Tricks   1 year ago

    I've posted versions of this before. Here is my current longer form, warts and all; I am no financial expert, and I know this is politically impossible. My purpose is to understand a "realistic" plan to convert SSA Ponzi pensions to private nest eggs. I am not saying this is perfect or possible, only that it is the best I could come up with.

    The gist is that investing 1/4 of the FICA tax in private DJIA/S&P 500 indexed funds provides enough nest egg that a 5% annual withdrawal matches SSA pensions, and since the average annual return over the last 10 years is 10% (DJIA) and 13% (S&P 500), that still leaves 3%/6% capital growth over the Fed's 2% inflation target (my figures were pre-Bidenflation), and a good cushion for bad years.

    * Keep the FICA tax on all workers to pay current SSA pensions. It will decrease from its current 15.3% over time as current pensioners leave the system. Everyone contributed to this mess, everyone has to pay to get out of it. Neither the Lone Ranger nor Harry Potter is coming to the rescue.

    * No new SSA pensioners. All employees keep paying FICA and get some prorated reduction in their buyout costs.

    * Add a new 4% payroll tax which goes directly to individually owned DJIA/S&P 500 indexed accounts. Yes, all employees get a 4% pay cut. We all contributed to this mess, we all have to get out of it. The decreasing 15.3% FICA tax will even things out in 5-10 years.

    * As time goes buy, SSA pensioners die off or take a lump sum nest egg buyout. Since this is spendable and inheritable, its value can be less than the strict 10%/13% necessary to maintain their current SSA pensions.

    * I *think*, as an uneducated uninformed wild ass guess, that the FICA tax would disappear within 20-30 years, leaving only the 4% nest egg tax. That's a 10% raise for everybody.

    * The new nest egg tax invests $500 billion a year into the stock market. 50 years (working age 20-70) of that will stabilize at $25 trillion. Google says current mutual fund capitalization is $56 trillion. I do not think adding $500 billion, 1%, every year would destabilize the stock markets.

    * Whether the new 4% nest egg payroll tax remains mandatory is a political decision. I'd be perfectly happy to make my own decisions and risk ending up in a bunk bed charity, but do-gooders and sob sisters will latch on to every pensioners who blows it in Vegas or loses it to a con artist, and try to restore SSA. Insurance companies could play a part. Guardians who have to approve unusual withdrawals could play a part. Legally binding waivers could play a part. But those do-gooders and sob sisters will also play a part.

    The longer form has other considerations, like how nest egg buyouts could happen.

    1. Thoritsu   1 year ago

      I like your proposal too. However, I would prefer private institutions be allowed to compete with the government investment plan you outline. The Government is not good at this, and as things change, will be slow, and incompetent to act to adjust. Private plans will be fine. I think private plans will dominate in a short time, and the government one, can fade away.

      1. Stupid Government Tricks   1 year ago

        That's why my plan forces that 4% nest egg to go into indexed funds owned by the employees. If they die prematurely, it's inheritable. They own it, not the government.

        The only reason for making it a mandatory payroll deduction is to keep the do-gooders and sub sisters from latching on to pensioners losing their nest eggs. I don't like that and would be glad to take my own chances. But politically, I think it's necessary.

        1. Thoritsu   1 year ago

          I wasn't suggesting a completely open, investment. It would have to be backstopped, like FDIC. Just set basic requirements to the investment programs, like pension programs have today (except apparently religious exemptions!). That would take care of people screwing up their own investments.

          Either way, this is less than a 4% penalty on people. Max would be a penalty against a much riskier investment using the 4%. Roughly trivial, but eliminating poverty in elderly people who actually worked in their lives.

          I have a WHOLE different idea to eliminate welfare in able-bodied-minded people: No handouts. Training and placement. 2-3 shots, and that is it from the government (charities can do as they like). After that, one is covered by a minimal welfare program, with housing and management provided. Lose the right to vote during any election period welfare or training is received.

          We seem to be of a similar mind, and I like this conversation better than all the ALL CAPS, weird, snarky crap from zealots here!

    2. VinniUSMC   1 year ago

      I will give up any future claim to SS retirement benefits, for the following:

      1) I stop paying into SS.
      2) Refund every dollar I have put into SS, not taxable as income.
      3) Allow for a 1 time, 401k infusion in the amount of my SS refund.

      Go.

      1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   1 year ago

        I'd give up all I've already paid in to stop taxing me SS for the rest of my career. And I've been max for a decade.

      2. Rossami   1 year ago

        re: #2 - Can't happen. As SGT says, we all contributed to this mess so we all have to help get out of it.

        Actually, I suppose #2 could happen by the government spinning up the printing machines and even further devaluing the dollar. Massive inflation is another way to spread the load of getting out of this mess. It would not be my preferred choice.

        1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   1 year ago

          So take it from the democrats, they owe us reparations. Need some more money? Harvest their organs.

          1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   1 year ago

            Wow, a bit 'direct', but not unjustified.

      3. Stupid Government Tricks   1 year ago

        It's an absolute political impossibility. It's a Ponzi scheme; terminating your payroll taxes terminates 80 million pensions. The public would not stand for it.

        You may as well wish for fishes in each hand.

        1. See Double You   1 year ago

          Yes. SS (along with Medicare and all other unfunded liabilities) were designed to win votes now while pushing the consequences into the future. Well, the future is now. We're fucked.

        2. Thoritsu   1 year ago

          Precisely!

    3. NCMB   1 year ago

      Or, the restriction on the SS Trust fund being invested only in U.S. Treasury Securities could be lifted, at least in part. That, of course, could pose a big problem for financing deficit spending.

  13. Lazarus Long   1 year ago

    No one is means testing me. I paid in, I get what I am entitled to. Want to fix it? Have everyone pay all year and not just on the first whatever amount. You pay all year on all of your salary. If we need to raise the tax .25%. But a means test? NO! If they want that, give me my money and stop talking anything from me for SS. But I'm collecting now and you can't take it back, and since I am still working, I continue to pay in. And Medicare is less of a problem that Medicaid is, which has been tortured into something it was never supposed to do.

    1. Truthteller1   1 year ago

      You don't even know what it will look like at this point. Relax.

    2. Rossami   1 year ago

      So no means testing for you because you paid in and should "get what [you're] entitled to" but take from those other guys who also paid in by making them pay more even though they will be prohibited from getting any benefit from it.

      That is logically inconsistent. Stop feeling and start thinking.

    3. Thoritsu   1 year ago

      Unless you were asleep, you knew you didn't pay into anything. You paid for your forefathers plans. No one paid for yours yet.

      FDR setup a Ponzi scheme, and idiot-lemmings loved him for it. There is a bill coming, and there is no getting out of it.

      1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   1 year ago

        ^+1. Almost as bad as FDR's UN.

  14. jonnysage   1 year ago

    DEMS should reform SS. No one else is allowed to touch it. But yeah, let me opt out or direct my taxes into my 401k.

    1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   1 year ago

      Dems should be exterminated for what they’ve done.

  15. creech   1 year ago

    Yeah, let's means test it. No punishment is too severe for those misguided fools who spent their working life saving for retirement instead of blowing their income on cruises to the Caribbean and season tickets to the Yankees.

  16. reasonable   1 year ago

    While I can't question the basic math and its consequences, the fact is that, while people may be living longer, that does not necessarily mean that everyone is physically or mentally capable of working until 65 or 70. Any plan to revamp Social Security needs to acknowledge and address this fact.

  17. Truthteller1   1 year ago

    Means testing is virtually guaranteed, there is no other way. We've known this for decades and just keep kicking the can down the road, but at some point we will run out of road. There will be weeping and wailing from the entitled, but means testing is going to happen in some form.

  18. Uncle Jay   1 year ago

    Social Security must be reformed.
    It, along with Medicare and Medicaid take up the majority of the federal budget, at almost two-thirds.
    I would recommend a buy out for all eligible participants in SS.
    A one-time gift, tax free, one-million-dollar gift for those on SS.
    However, those who take the gift will not receive Medicare or Medicaid or any more SS payments.
    This will hurt financially at first, but the amount of future SS payments later will be drastically reduced.
    However, we all know both parties lack the required temerity to reform SS, and I foresee SS will be one of the major reasons why the US will be bankrupt within the next ten years.

    1. JasonT20   1 year ago

      All social welfare programs are transfers of wealth. That is what they do, and that is their purpose. Libertarians have an ideological reason to not want this, but the conservatives that make up more than 90% of elected Republicans just don't want to pay the taxes that fund them.

      I can agree that politicians should be much more honest in their language about what these programs are for and what they do. If people really just want lower taxes and don't mind that it will mean not having sufficient safety nets for themselves, their friends, their neighbors and other Americans, all so that they can say that they aren't paying any taxes for the "parasite class", then I guess that is who we are as a country.

      1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   1 year ago

        ^Assholish lefty supports murder as a preventative:

        JasonT20
        February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
        “How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”

        Fuck off and die, asshole.

      2. Junkmailfolder   1 year ago

        No poisoning the well going on in this post.

        I studied hard in school when many of my friends goofed off. I didn't spend money frivolously and worked hard and smart at my job.

        The government takes over 30% of what I produce. One third of my life is being forcibly taken from me on the threat of incarceration or violence.

        Separate, but very salient, discussions of how precious little of my tax money actually goes to providing a safety net, how much of my life do you feel I owe to society? Is it less than 50%

        1. JasonT20   1 year ago

          The government takes over 30% of what I produce. One third of my life is being forcibly taken from me on the threat of incarceration or violence.

          And how much do you estimate to be the value of what you get back? There's the most obvious benefits of government that can't be provided privately: national defense, international diplomacy, enforcement of criminal law, fire and rescue services if you need them. There's the less obvious, but still things that couldn't be privatized effectively: a system of civil law to enforce contracts, seek to collect debts owed to you or bankruptcy protections if you have unmanageable debt, regulations that provide for food safety and safety of other kinds of products, public health agencies to deal with infectious diseases, expert agencies to monitor the weather and provide public warnings of dangerous weather events, civil courts to adjudicate civil disputes you may have with others. Then there's things that maybe aren't necessary for the government to do, but they are arguably very important: funding for basic scientific research - this won't lead directly to useful new innovations and products (which is why private companies won't invest in it), but it is the foundation for the private R&D that will, public education - an educated workforce and citizenry is an obvious benefit to everyone.

          I could go on, but that should be plenty to think about.

          Separate, but very salient, discussions of how precious little of my tax money actually goes to providing a safety net, how much of my life do you feel I owe to society? Is it less than 50%

          Well, at one level, human beings are simply not evolved to be able to survive without cooperation with other humans. Stories of people that survive on their own in the wilderness for any length of time without help are the exception. Most people in those situations die if they are not found and rescued in time. Especially if they weren't able to bring with them tools that they couldn't have made themselves, even something simple, like a sharp, steel knife would be invaluable. In that way, we depend on "society" for our survival, so we definitely owe it something.

          And one of the largest points of this article was to note how the majority of federal spending is actually spending on safety net programs (Medicare, SS, and Medicaid + several smaller ones like food stamps, free school lunches, etc.), so I'm not sure what you mean when you say that "precious little" of your tax money goes to providing a safety net.

          1. Junkmailfolder   1 year ago

            Your contention is that if I were to spend one third of my working hours (or potentially more) working for the government rather than for myself, I wouldn't be able to produce as much value as I get from the government?

            Do you honestly, in your heart, believe the government provides that much value to you? That if, for example, the government didn't have regulations, that we'd all be dying of bad food, collapsing buildings, and crummy products?

            I think what we're dealing with here is a divide that's unbreachable. Some people truly believe that the government makes modern life possible and that without every "service" it provides, we'd quickly devolve into the Lord of the Flies.

            The value that the government provides me, even with all you mentioned, is MUCH less than 1/3 of my production. Taking no more than 10% of what we as a country produce should be more than sufficient to run society.

            Conversations such as this truly make me believe that a divorce between small- and big-government believers is really the only solution even though it's not a practical one.

        2. JasonT20   1 year ago

          I studied hard in school when many of my friends goofed off. I didn't spend money frivolously and worked hard and smart at my job.

          And I am not saying that we shouldn't incentivize people to work hard and smart and to be independent. But no person can control everything that will determine their success. Luck and circumstance do play a large role in this, whether we want to admit it or not. I define my success as doing well with what is within my control. There is no single brass ring of success that is within reach for every person. On top of that, no one is successful all the time at everything they do, so we all need some kind of support for the times when we do fail. Like I said, that is how humans survive, and it is also how we flourish.

          1. Junkmailfolder   1 year ago

            We survive and flourish through societal trust. It's people in your tribe providing for you when you fail because they know you'll do the same.

            The safety net we have in place is not a replacement for how we've survived in the past, and it's getting to its breaking poing. We are in the lowest level of trust that the United States has ever seen, and the fact that such a large percentage of our population, many of whom are more than capable of providing for themselves, is on some kind of assistance, is only deteriorating that trust further. Even absent the massive debt can being kicked down the road, we're not on a sustainable level of providing welfare to our population.

            You just push us towards Harrison Bergeron-type leveling of the playing field, and people will always react to the incentives being provided to them.

  19. JohnEMack   1 year ago

    Can you imagine the political ads if Congress attempted to means test social security? "I paid into social security all my working life and now all the money goes to welfare moochers."

    1. JasonT20   1 year ago

      Oh, totally. And that is exactly what the ads would say even if the means testing didn't reduce anyone's benefits that had less than $176,100 in income.

      I obvious did not pull that number out of thin air. That is the cap on how much income is subject to the SS payroll tax. Notice how eliminating that cap didn't show up as an option in this article, even if to argue against it. Not mentioning it at all is pretty telling, to me.

      1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   1 year ago

        ^Lefty shit supports murder as a preventative:

        JasonT20
        February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
        “How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”

        Fuck off and die, asshole.

    2. Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! )   1 year ago

      Don’t forget all the illegals. Thats far beyond mooching. They’re just invading foreigners.

  20. shadydave   1 year ago

    Any plan that isn't "dissolve the inherently fraudulent and corrupt scheme" is bound to fail. It was a really, really, really, really, really bad idea when it was implemented and it has only gotten worse since.

  21. KAW   1 year ago

    Get real. This DOGE crew is not up to the challenge of fixing Social Security. I could see them breaking it, but not enacting the type of meaningful reform needed, while still sending out the payments many need. That requires actually being thoughtful and working through Congress, two things they're incapable of.

    1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   1 year ago

      Gee, here I thought posting here required the intelligence of a a4 year old, and you come along and prove me wrong.
      Stuff your TDS up your ass so your head has company, and then fuck off and die, asshole.

  22. JasonT20   1 year ago

    Cato's Boccia proposes that the Social Security eligibility age be raised by three years (to 65 for early retirement and 70 for full retirement). That makes sense. When the program was introduced in 1935, with retirement age at 65, the average life expectancy for men was 59.9 and for women it was 63.9. Infant mortality was higher at that time than now, which pulled down life expectancy. But still, the creators of Social Security anticipated that fewer than 40 percent of women who made it to adulthood and roughly 46 percent of men would die before collecting a penny. With many more Americans living longer and healthier, 70 is a modest adjustment to the retirement age.

    No, this does not make sense, nor is it modest. These numbers and this analysis is not taking into account something rather important to the purpose of Social Security. That is the large disparities in the number of healthy years among seniors among different groups, with the difference between the rich and the poor being the most relevant part here.

    Raising the retirement age will fall heaviest on the people with the fewest healthy years left to live. People with middle class incomes or higher, can probably make up for the higher 'full' retirement age by simply getting a lower SS check and still retire at the same time they otherwise would have. They will do that by saving more while they work, which they should have been doing all along. But hey, the way that the U.S. economy has discouraged saving in favor of consumerism is another story.

    1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   1 year ago

      ^Assholish lefty shit supports murder as a preventative:

      JasonT20
      February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
      “How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”

      Fuck off and die, asshole.

  23. aronofskyd   1 year ago

    Social Security already is means tested indirectly through the federal (and also on our case state) income tax we pay on 85 percent of our benefits. The fix I propose is simple. Lift the wage cap completely on all social security withholding and also tax all income except tax exempt bond income at the employee withholding rate. Solvency forever results.

    1. NCMB   1 year ago

      “ Social Security already is means tested indirectly through the federal (and also on our case state) income tax we pay on 85 percent of our benefits.”

      Very good point. Further, directing the federal income tax levied on SS benefits to the SS Trust vs the general fund as is now the case would help to an extent. Since the income “test” to determine what portion of SS benefits are subject to income tax was set in 1983 at a rather low amount (off the top of my head $42,000 for a couple filing jointly) and never indexed for inflation, the receipts generate today could be significant.

      1. NCMB   1 year ago

        Scratch that, the revenue collected from income tax on SS benefits already goes to both the SS Medicare trusts.

    2. RAHeinlein   1 year ago

      Sure, if you keep the maximum benefit exactly the same meaning those who pay aggregious sums receive nominally more than a low-income worker. Self-employed, small business owners - they pay both sides so even more uneven outcomes.

      LET IT FAIL - it's the only fair way and at-least some of the Boomers who are on the gravy train will have a trim like everyone else.

  24. AT   1 year ago

    Just lump sum it out to everyone that's put into it. We have the tax records. I have every single paystub going back over a decade. I can tell you exactly how much FICA tax I've paid. I also have all my tax returns, so I can figure out what I've had refunded. If you haven't been paying taxes all this time, you get NOTHING.

    If you've taken welfare payments (SNAP, WIC, Disability, etc.) along the way, deduct them from the payout. Obviously only give the remainder to those who have already received SS/Medicare funds. Just forgive anyone who's already gotten more than they put in. Sucks, but let's accept it for simplicity's sake. They won't be getting a penny more.

    Lump sum it out to everyone, and let us put it into an HSA. Or we can blow it all on gold teef and rims if we want. Whatever.

    Then repeal EMTALA, and everyone's on their own to provide for themselves. Carve out an exception for Veterans (at least E1-E5) which comes from the DOD budget and has to stay solvent (meaning any deficits are recovered from otherwise discretionary spending).

    1. JasonT20   1 year ago

      Just lump sum it out to everyone that's put into it.

      You say this like you don't understand that the money that everyone's "put into" SS, Medicare, etc., was spent on the people receiving benefits, and that it is all gone. As the article points out accurately, the trust funds for these programs are all treasury bills that really authorize those programs to draw on future general tax revenue to fund the deficit between current payroll taxes and the benefits being paid out.

      If you haven't been paying taxes all this time, you get NOTHING.

      "If you're poor, sucks to be you."

      Got it.

      Lump sum it out to everyone, and let us put it into an HSA. Or we can blow it all on gold teef and rims if we want. Whatever.

      ...

      Just, wow.

      1. AT   1 year ago

        You say this like you don't understand that the money that everyone's "put into" SS, Medicare, etc., was spent on the people receiving benefits, and that it is all gone.

        Yea, well we don't have problems with borrowing - so dump it onto the debt, clear the obligations, and then work down the debt. It'll be a lot easier once we stop making SS/Medicare payments.

        "If you're poor, sucks to be you."

        Yea, actually. But a more accurate way to put it would be, "If you haven't put into the piggy bank, you get nothing from it when we empty/disperse it."

        Just, wow.

        Wow what? People with a sudden influx of liquid assets have a tendency to blow it. That's their problem. We lump sum their contributions, and if they spend it all at once instead of saving for future retirement/healthcare expenses - screw 'em.

        1. JasonT20   1 year ago

          If you didn't catch why I really wrote, "Just, wow"... well, that doesn't really surprise me.

          1. AT   1 year ago

            Well then how about you just explain it instead of being coy.

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