Will Absorbing the ATF Into the FBI Rein in Each Agency's Abuses?
The ATF, charged with regulating firearms, has a history of abuse and incompetence.

By appointing FBI Director Kash Patel as acting head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), President Donald Trump took a step towards reining in a federal agency justifiably viewed by many as a threat to self-defense rights. He also signaled that he may consolidate government bodies that overlap in their responsibilities. Fans of big government and opponents of privately owned firearms won't like the move, but the idea of combining the agencies is hardly unprecedented. After all, President Bill Clinton had the same idea three decades ago.
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Patel Wears Two Hats
"ATF welcomes Acting Director Kash Patel to ATF, who was sworn in and had his first visit to ATF Headquarters in Washington, D.C. today," the ATF posted on X on February 24. "We are enthusiastic to work together for a safer America!"
Patel takes over from Steven Dettelbach, who resigned just before Trump took office. Dettelbach presided over an ATF seen as even more hostile to gun owners than has historically been the case.
The announcement of Patel's new role at the ATF came after the anti-gun Brady Campaign had already denounced Patel's confirmation by the Senate as FBI director, calling him a "known gun rights extremist and conspiracy theorist." The group also wasn't happy when Attorney General Pam Bondi fired former ATF Chief Counsel Pamela Hicks for "targeting gun owners." It's fair to assume the Brady Campaign is equally displeased with Patel's new job leading the ATF along with the FBI.
ATF's History of Incompetence and Abuse
But it's impossible to credibly argue that the ATF doesn't need a shakeup. After all, this is a federal agency that ran guns to criminal gangs in Mexico as part of a bizarre and failed "investigation," manipulated mentally disabled people into participating in sting operations—and then arrested them, lost thousands of guns and gun parts, killed people over paperwork violations, and unilaterally reinterpreted laws to create new felonies out of thin air (which means more cause for sketchy investigations and stings). The federal police agency obsessively focused on firearms has long seemed determined to guarantee itself work by finding ever more things to police.
But what about putting the same person in charge of both the ATF and the FBI? How does that make sense?
Well, there's a lot of overlap in the responsibilities of federal agencies. During the ATF's "Operation Fast and Furious" gunrunning escapade in Mexico, it coordinated—badly—with the FBI, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). During its 2012 investigation of that fiasco, the Justice Department Inspector General "conducted interviews with more than 130 persons currently or previously employed by the Department, ATF, the DEA, the FBI, and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)" on its way to identifying "a series of misguided strategies, tactics, errors in judgment, and management failures that permeated ATF Headquarters and the Phoenix Field Division."
Clinton Proposed Consolidating Federal Law Enforcement
Merging agencies—if that's where this is headed—might improve internal communications by clarifying chains of command and eliminating interagency competition. It might also reduce the ATF's singleminded focus on demonstrating its importance by making sure there are people violating gun laws—even if violations have to be manufactured—so there is always somebody to arrest and parade on TV. A larger multipurpose agency—basically, a supercharged FBI—should be able to shift gears from one crime focus to another if there aren't enough violators. Maybe.
Merged agencies should also be more efficient, since they won't duplicate each other's infrastructure. At least, that was the idea when the Clinton administration's National Performance Review, later rebranded the National Partnership for Reinventing Government, proposed the idea.
"More than 140 agencies are responsible for enforcing 4,100 federal criminal laws," the 1993 review noted. "Unfortunately, too many cooks spoil the broth. Agencies squabble over turf, fail to cooperate, or delay matters while attempting to agree on common policies."
The performance review, headed by then-Vice President Al Gore, recommended merging the DEA into the FBI to "create savings in administrative and support functions such as laboratories, legal services, training facilities, and administration." It then suggested assigning the law enforcement functions of the ATF to the FBI and its regulatory and revenue functions to the IRS.
Opportunity and Danger in a Merger
Done right, you wouldn't need as many agents for the combined agency, and you would have lower overhead. But—and this is a big concern—done wrong, you'd end up with a supercharged federal enforcement agency with all the hostility to civil liberties its old components embodied when separate, but now with lots more clout.
When he took charge of the FBI, Patel became the leader of an agency that has long served as a sort of political police. Its abuses date back decades and never seem to go away, just to morph into new ways of targeting anybody who criticizes whoever is currently in power.
"The FBI entraps hapless people all the time, arrests them, charges them with domestic terrorism offenses or other serious felonies, claims victory in the 'war on domestic terrorism,' and then asks Congress for more money to entrap more people," John Kiriakou, a former CIA officer and whistleblower, wrote in 2021.
That means there's already a problem that needs to be addressed, or it could infect a combined agency rather than taking the sharp edges off the ATF.
Also troubling is that before his nomination to head the FBI, Patel made comments suggesting he wants to target his own political enemies. He's backed off those threats, telling the Senate Judiciary Committee he's committed to "a de-weaponized, de-politicized system of law enforcement completely devoted to rigorous obedience to the Constitution and a singular standard of justice." But it's worth watching what he does with his roles at the separate FBI and ATF before combining the two agencies into something more dangerous.
Or maybe the Trump administration won't take the next step of formally integrating the ATF and the FBI. Self defense advocates have long called for ATF leadership that isn't actively hostile to gun owners. If all Patel does is rein in the ATF so that Americans get a few years of relief from that agency's abuses, that's a victory itself. But eliminating a much-loathed federal agency would be even better.
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Consolidation should be a good thing since their missions overlap almost completely. Whether you think this change is good or not mostly depends on whether you trust Patel to root out corruption and actually control the organization to properly serve its function.
Since I don't think the ATF's function is "proper" in the first place, I'm not sure how to fit that into your model. Getting more efficient at things you shouldn't be doing at all is not necessarily a gain.
The problem is that the ATF's primary focus is NFA violations - bullshit laws.
Being able to be better a arresting people for SBR and suppressors is not a good thing.
O think the bad agents will be ‘Kashing’ in their chips.
But it's impossible to credibly argue that the ATF doesn't need
a shakeupto be abolished.Fixed it for you.
Abolishing the ATF as an agency without repealing the laws it is charged with enforcing accomplishes very little.
Does anyone remember the Good Ol' Boys' Roundup?
With the Blues Brothers?
That ain’t no Hank Williams song.
I was just thinking of that, back in the 80s I believe. They put up a sign that read "no niggers."
They had printed merch that read -
"ATF - Always Think Forfeiture".
'The announcement of Patel's new role at the ATF came after the anti-gun Brady Campaign had already denounced Patel's confirmation by the Senate as FBI director, calling him a "known gun rights extremist and conspiracy theorist."'
Conspiracy? The old-fashioned kind, or the new 21st century kind? You know, where a "conspiracy" is an accusation of left-wing shenanigans that they will deny for 6 months and then quietly admit was true?
Just the other day the Giffords organization stated that the ATF is the only federal agency responsible for enforcement of federal laws.
Out of some 80+ agencies and 140,000 federal cops, no less.
Is this the "Big Lie" on steroids, or just plain old every day bald face lying?
The ATF is one of the few federal agencies that actually murders Americans in their own homes, shoots unarmed mothers holding babies, and burns children alive.
And they successfully blamed the victims. This is the agency that the Giffords support.
The ATF is one of the few federal agencies that actually murders Americans in their own homes, shoots unarmed mothers holding babies, and burns children alive.
Are we going with the FFnC of ATF=FBI here? Because the prominent "shoots unarmed mothers holding babies" incident that springs to my mind, the shooter was FBI and even for the others it's unclear as to which one is the hand and which one is the glove.
Yes - normally that's the role of state agencies.
The old-fashioned kind, or the new 21st century kind?
Plato's Conspiracy Cave - Reality is just the conspiracy we all agree to.
^ This.
The “Right-Wing conspiracy theory” to-proven-true timeframe has shrunk so quickly.
I feel bad for JFK guys who had to go decades before vindication.
Covid we only had to go basically days.
And the Left still clings to their “wet markets, we have no idea where it’s from” narrative.
Recalling the title of an article just a couple of years ago; "So it Was the Raccoon Dogs All Along."
Accepting the evidence that 1] NIH/ Fauci started GOF research, was 2] stopped from doing it Stateside for fear that he would "start and epidemic," 3] sending money [VIA USAID] to Eco Health Alliance who 4] funded the Wuhan Institute of Virology to do just that?
Well now that would start a process of bringing down their entire house of cards.
Reality is kryptonite for progressives.
The ATF needs to go away. Works for me.
Indeed and take the FBI with 'em.
"It's fair to assume the Brady Campaign is equally displeased..."
Any bad days for those bitches is a good day for me.
Clinton was right. One law enforcement agency. Take "force" away from all the others. They can bureaucratically regulate, but not enforce.
My kneejerk reaction is to always look at the mission of the agency in question. More often than not, it is mission-creep which creates the problem. If they adhered to their mission, civil liberties would be a lot safer. Redundancy and turf wars would still ensue and I doubt a consolidation would reduce that.
In ATF's case, they have 5 stated "purposes". The last one is training, which should be fairly innocuous. Three involve "criminals" and "acts of terrorism", so I guess how those are defined (innocent until proven guilty?, parents at a PTA meeting?) controls here. The other is licensing/inspections, which is where it really seems they can go rogue and harass law-abiding citizens.
Gee, that's a really difficult one - - - - -
HELL NO!
Just eliminate ATF, and disarm the FBI (the "I" is for investigation). If the investigation results in the need for an arrest, call a US Marshal)
Then replace all the existing staff and start over.
The ATF should not be absorbed int the FBI. Both need to be disbanded.
It's impossible to disband the FBI since the Justice Department is legitimate under the Constitution with legitimate Federal laws to investigate. The problem is the four thousand unconstitutional laws on the books.
Really? We went ~150 years without an FBI. Not sure why we couldn't go back to not having an FBI.
The FBI is as corrupted and political as any agency could get. Hoover did his worst to make it so and it never recovered.
There is NO statement in the Constitution to support your claim.
The Judiciary Act of 1789 established the office of the United States Marshal. Why does the US need more than one office for Marshals?
We should all first agree that the most direct path to fixing all of this is to eliminate the democrat party and all the hardcore Marxists who are running it.
How? They have freedom of association and political rights that we all have. Eliminate them electorally by defeating them in elections.
I don't see why there shouldn't be a single Federal agency tasked with enforcing Federal law, rather than separate FBI, ATF, DEA, and no doubt sundry other alphabet agencies whose existence I;m not aware of.
Of course you don't. Large organizations make it easier to subvert them from within and they're more resistant to outside control.
Same reason people like you insist on regulations that choke small businesses
Love of central authority has always been the wet dream of tyrants; it just seems so much more "efficient" in f'ing you over.
Ah, so lots of federal agencies are a good thing except when they're not.
I don't want there to be as many rules and regulations and I favour economies of scale. YMMV
No, it will not.
It will allow the bullshit parts of the NFA to be more efficiently and effectively enforced.
"Will Absorbing the ATF Into the FBI Rein in Each Agency's Abuses?"
"No, but abolishing the ATF would be a step in the right direction.
It's history of incompetence and abuses are notoriously legendary...as are most of the alphabet agencies.
Agreed.
When a family member is diagnosed with cancer you don't ask a surgeon to do a cancer transplant into your body. You fking try and kill the cancer.
"You fking try and kill the cancer."
Same in dealing with an oversized, over budget, overreaching, and over regulating bureaucracy that resembles a Little Abner nightmare; you don't approach it incrementally or try to negotiate with it, you kill it before it kills you.
The past activities of that agency and the FBI as well prove they can no longer be entrusted with anything other than picking up trash along the highway.
Both agencies cannot be trusted to neither follow the law or remove the corruption and abuse. They are beyond saving.
They need to be shut down.
if you actually believe that combining 2 federal agencies with long & disturbing histories of abuses & equally long & disturbing histories of overreach can actually result in better outcomes, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Eliminate the "A" & "T" part of their job description. The "A" is a holdover from prohibition.
Can't see the utility in the "T" either. Both are sin taxes and we need to move on from that. Congress needs to drop Alcohol and Tobacco taxes.
The "F" has utility for only one reason:
1. There are weapons where the unintended consequences of "oopsie" are very serious. Because of that danger, we need to be smart.
Everything else currently being done about "F" needs to end. Especially the blatant anti-gun activities directed at good people.
Remember that day the people passed a Constitutional Amendment giving the federal government authority to rule over Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms?
Yeah... Me neither. F'En [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s].
ATF created by the Gun Control Act of 1968 by Lyndon Johnson[D] and the 90th Congress [D] House & [D] Senate (i.e. [D] trifecta).
Practically every blatant violation of the US Constitution has taken place by a [D] trifecta.
Its simple: oust the ATF's jackbooted thugs. No more ex-military or 2nd career police rejects. Replace only with civil rights lawyers, retired FFL's and mechanical engineers to serve foremost to protect individual's civil rights, and facilitate gun retailers ability to safely and legal transfer guns. Focus on bad guys who smuggle, straw purchase and gang bang.
Leave the ATF as a fed agency. I would rather have an agency with specialized knowledge about the function, laws/regs of guns, than some gun-ignorant FBI hack who got demoted out of the fraud unit to work on FFL audits and troll gun shows.