DOGE Needs Data To Survive. These Lawsuits Are Trying To Starve It of Information.
Nearly a dozen lawsuits allege that DOGE's access to government payment and personnel systems violates a litany of federal privacy and record-handling laws.

In its brief existence, the Elon Musk–helmed Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has proved remarkably effective at one thing: attracting lawsuits.
Over the past several weeks, dozens of lawsuits have been filed challenging every aspect of the new initiative and its activities.
A handful of these lawsuits argue that the very existence of DOGE is illegal and that Musk's role as a non–Senate confirmed "special government employee" with massive authority to set policy is unconstitutional.
By installing Musk and his DOGE team at the former U.S. Digital Service, President Donald Trump has "transformed a minor position that was formerly responsible for managing government websites into a designated agent of chaos without limitation and in violation of the separation of powers," reads a lawsuit filed by 14 Democratic state attorneys general yesterday.
On the other end of the spectrum are the numerous lawsuits that challenge the government-slashing fruits of DOGE: the cancellation of various grants, the partial closure of the U.S. Agency for International Development and dismissal of staffers there, the Trump administration's "fork in the road" deferred resignation program for federal workers, and more.
Sitting in between these two types of lawsuits is yet another set of complaints that challenges DOGE's access to the basic digital infrastructure of government, including the U.S. Treasury Department's payment systems and government personnel data held by the Office of Personnel Management (OPM).
Just Security's litigation tracker lists eight lawsuits challenging DOGE's access to government data, and that appears to be an undercount.
While this third bucket of lawsuits might sound mundane, it likely represents the biggest threat to DOGE's work.
Plaintiffs in these records access lawsuits allege that DOGE's access to record systems is enabling the administration's other lawless activity, like illegally stopping grant payments and "deleting" whole agencies without congressional approval.
Musk himself has said that DOGE's access to things like Treasury payment systems is essential to his mission of rooting out fraud and overpayments and whittling down the federal budget deficit.
Whether or not the billionaire's role in the government is constitutional won't mean much if DOGE is still locked out of real access to federal agency data. Whether the DOGE-inspired cuts to federal spending and staffing can stick is downstream of whether DOGE has enough information to identify payments and personnel worthy of the chopping block.
DOGE's fiercest critics and its most ardent cheerleaders seem to think that access to government data is where the action is at.
Five former Democratic Treasury secretaries argued in The New York Times that giving political appointees and DOGE staffers who "lack training and experience" access to payment systems typically handled by career civil servants is "corrosive to our democracy."
More positively, Samuel Hammond of the Foundation for American Innovation argued in a late January essay that DOGE's inserting into the government's core I.T. systems offered an opportunity for an FDR-style remaking of the federal government that, if successful, "will bring unprecedented transparency to federal spending while laying the infrastructure needed for a significant downsizing in the federal workforce through automations."
While a number of the records access lawsuits raise deeper legal and constitutional claims, their primary complaint is that DOGE staffers and other Trump administration appointees were given access to government data without following the proper notice and procedural requirements contained in a long list of federal privacy statutes.
The most consequential of these lawsuits thus far is the one filed by 19 Democratic state attorneys general in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York that's already resulted in a restraining order preventing DOGE staffers and other appointees from accessing the Treasury's Bureau of the Fiscal Service (BFS).
BFS systems collectively disburse roughly $5.5 trillion in federal payments each year to states, localities, grantees, contractors, and individual beneficiaries of government programs and contain personal information like bank account and Social Security numbers of payees.
These systems have traditionally been operated by career employees at the Treasury Department and access to them is tightly regulated through the 1974 Privacy Act, among other federal laws that control officials' access to government-held personally identifiable information.
While the Privacy Act contains a sweeping restriction on agencies sharing an individual's personally identifiable information without their consent, it also provides a long list of exceptions to that restriction.
As a Congressional Research Service report from 2023 notes, it's generally been left up to the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), an executive agency, to decide when interagency data sharing qualifies for certain exemptions from the Privacy Act.
Still, even when such exemptions are granted for sharing data or changing how records are stored, Congress and the OMB must be notified and the data sharing must be noted in the Federal Register.
The states' lawsuit's primary claim is that no exception in the Privacy Act could reasonably apply to DOGE staffers or other political appointees who'd been given access to BFS record systems and that the notice requirements were clearly not followed.
By acting without any legal authority, the Trump administration violated the Administrative Procedure Act, the states claim.
For good measure, the suing Democratic attorneys general also argue that the Trump administration violated the separation of powers doctrine and the Constitution's Take Care Clause.
In response to that lawsuit, the Trump administration has made a pretty far-reaching constitutional claim of its own—effectively that the courts have no power to limit political appointees' access to Treasury data.
The restraining order "is a remarkable intrusion on the Executive Branch that is in direct conflict with Article II of the Constitution, and the unitary structure it provides," said the administration in a legal filing in the case. "Basic democratic accountability requires that every executive agency's work be supervised by politically accountable leadership, who ultimately answer to the President. A federal court, consistent with the separation of powers, cannot insulate any portion of that work from the specter of political accountability."
A hearing on whether to grant a more permanent preliminary injunction in that case is scheduled for today.
While that case is ongoing, there has also been a long list of lawsuits making very similar legal claims about the access that DOGE has been given to OPM files that contain private information on current and former government employees and job applicants.
In a suit filed Monday, the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) and an anonymous government employee allege that DOGE's access to OPM record systems containing information on individual employees' pay and benefits violates the Privacy Act, the Administrative Procedure Act, and due process protections of the Fifth Amendment.
DOGE's access to OPM and Treasury records amounts to "the largest and most consequential data breach in U.S. history," the lawsuit claims.
On Tuesday, a lawsuit making near-identical legal claims against DOGE's access to OPM records was filed by the AFL-CIO, a collection of government employee unions, and current and former government employees. Unlike most other DOGE lawsuits, the AFL-CIO complaint names Musk as an individual defendant.
A few weeks prior, a collection of anonymous federal employees sued the OPM for allowing DOGE officials to set up a server that could send emails from the OPM to all career employees.
This was the system the Trump administration used to send all employees the "fork in the road" deferred resignation offer.
Doing so, the anonymous plaintiffs allege, violated the 2002 E-Government Act's requirement that privacy protections be laid out before any new electronic collection of personal information is made.
A handful of other lawsuits have been filed by government employee unions, public university students, and public school teachers raising similar Privacy Act and Administrative Procedure Act claims against DOGE's access to private data and employee records held within the Departments of Labor and Education and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
Save for the states' lawsuit against DOGE's access to Treasury data, as of this writing, none of those lawsuits have resulted in any additional restraining orders being granted.
The administration's counterarguments in those cases have all generally been on more limited grounds about standing or the technical requirements of the relevant privacy protections in play.
Reading through all these lawsuits, one gets the sense of a real clash between two ways of doing things: old-school Washington proceduralism vs. Silicon Valley–style disruption.
The anti-DOGE lawsuits inevitably mention the comparative youth of DOGE staffers given access to government data. Many cite the danger that government records will be fed into AI systems.
In a telling line in a legal filing in the case of anonymous government employees challenging DOGE's access to OPM email servers, the plaintiffs complain that "the sole purpose of these new [DOGE-created] systems was expediency."
DOGE's defenders might well say "exactly." The initiative's mission is to make government more efficient.
The sheer number of laws that DOGE is accused of violating could even be seen as evidence of the initiative's necessity. If the president can't even set up a server to email all his employees at once without getting sued, bureaucratic sclerosis is indeed out of control.
A cross-partisan critique of government in recent years is that everything that the government does is bogged down in endless process for the sake of process.
Whether it's permitting new energy infrastructure or allowing new vape products to come to market, the government process takes forever and any final decision runs the risk of years of litigation. By skipping the process, DOGE has run straight into the litigation.
To some degree, these fights about DOGE's access to data are orthogonal to typical libertarian concerns about the government's size and scope.
Even if DOGE's data access makes it successful at rooting out fraud, waste, and unnecessary federal positions, that can only do so much to bring government spending down.
The president having more control over his executive branch underlings doesn't immediately change how much control the government has over private citizens.
Government officials' easier access to individuals' private data does present privacy and cybersecurity concerns. But that compounds the preexisting privacy problem of the government hoovering up all those data in the first place.
Whether you're hot or cold on DOGE's government-slashing potential, everyone agrees it needs data to survive. Record access lawsuits might starve it of them.
Rent Free is a weekly newsletter from Christian Britschgi on urbanism and the fight for less regulation, more housing, more property rights, and more freedom in America's cities.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
So, the suits all boil down to it is not permitted for the Executive to have control over his branch.
Got it.
Trump should next attack the ENTIRE CONCEPT of public employee unions. Simply refuse to negotiate or even speak to these groups.
The best way to get rid of public employee unions is to require them to negotiate with the ones who pay the wages, the taxpayers. All public union contracts have to be approved by the voters.
If you think there aren't 51% of americans willing to give raises to "Teachers and soldiers and park rangers" with other peoples' money, you are nutso.
I'm willing to roll those dice in 2025.
Yeah:
https://ballotpedia.org/Illinois_Amendment_1,_Right_to_Collective_Bargaining_Measure_(2022)
If you think CA, NY, and at least a couple other states... pro-Union Republicans or "Purple-dog Democrats" would turn up to make the vote, I'd say you're being hopelessly optimistic.
And they'll just tell you they're negotiating with our representatives.
If I ever want a good hit of pure, unadulterated authoritarian cock worship, I know to go straight to the libertarian website.
ENB would be so proud of you. Sullum in particular displays some of that worship you describe.
Trump should send for the data for himself. They cannot refuse. Then he can share it with Musk et al in the WH offices.
Or someone on his staff can leak it. That's a very popular and heroic method of sharing data on the left.
I promise you, the Supreme Court is going to stand up for the taxpayers and the Constitution and lay the smackdown on these out of line communist judges.
As long as Roberts and Barrett don’t wet themselves and betray America again to please the beltway cocktail party set.
If President Musk thinks he needs data, he needs to get Congress to repeal all the privacy laws. All the MAGA people want Musk to know everything about you!
No Chuck, it's about YOU.
"The most consequential of these lawsuits thus far is the one filed by 19 Democratic state attorneys general in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York . . . "
OK, IANAL so I have to wonder how state officials have standing to sue federal employees, and how a district court in NY get to be the place it is heard. IF multiple states actually had a case, wouldn't it go straight to the supremes?
How is SDNY not voided and shut down at this point? It's just a venue for anti-constitutional actions much like the 9th circuit court.
That may be coming very soon. Pam Bondi has her work cut out for her.
Hey, wasn’t that human sized piece of shit Preet from that court?
"The Government is not allowed to look at its own data about you!"
These people are fucking unbelievable
Just not political appointees or Republicans.
Only the captured deep state.
That is to protect you. Musk wants to he able to sell your financial and medical data to the highest bidder. Libertarian paradise.
Please point us where these auctions are, sir. Surely you can tell is who the highest bidder currently is!
I hope DOGE is saving the best for last; the federal court system.
They have zero power over the courts.
DOGE has zero power whatsoever. However, they report to Trump, who has a great deal of power.
But Britches! They aren't going through proper channels? And according to Elizabeth Warren, ordinary Americans have no constitutional right to know what their tax money is spent on!
Who will think of the bureaucrats? OUR PRECIOUS DEMOCRACY!!@!!!!
DOGE violates the interagency protocol clause of the constitution.
I notice that Reason has no comments on JD Vance's speech in Germany yesterday, calling out Europe to its faces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCOsgfINdKg
Dropping truth on them, whether they like it or not.
We do not need Europe. At all. They need us desperately. Time to act accordingly.
Who? Where?
Too local, I suspect.
Some local speech in Germany by some dude.
They are trying to figure out how he is wrong.
JD going up and talking about EU censorship followed up by Germany basically saying he shouldn't be allowed to say that is hilarious.
And in particular defending free speech, a subject near and dear to libertarians. But I'll give Reason the benefit of the doubt and assume that tomorrow they won't claim that JD Vance is wrong about censorship in Europe.
You called it shortly before Petti went out of his way to prove you right.
How many Libertarians have stood up for the AP refusing to accept the fake renaming of the Gulf of Mexico?
charliehall really is an ignoramus, ain't he?
Yes. Yes he is.
Sounds like a leftist with the lying habit.
Nothing is fake about renaming anything. No reason to defend the AP here.
You are really deranged. Sucks for you to get a taste of your own medicine!
J D Vance is wrong about Europe.
We need Europe a lot less than you think. They are very dependent on us in the event of a nuclear attack. But the reality is that Europe views its 'threats' as limited mainly to Russia. Whatever oddball stuff is related to migrants or anything on the Mediterranean is negligible.
Spending as a % of GDP is not relevant to dealing with an ACTUAL threat. That is more a measure of how much the MIC should be allowed to suck on a public teat. Russia spends $146 billion per year on military (which includes the war in Ukraine) - or $460 billion in PPP terms. Europe spends $450 billion in either actual or PPP terms. So basically the same - now. Not enough but - let Europe deal with that challenge - without the US ordering Europe around.
Europe itself is very aware of how much Germany and Italy in particular freeload (Belgium and Spain too). Their 'reason' is overtly because of our 'dependence' on them for basing US troops in NATO (75% of the 63k are based in those two - though the 63k seems low) and because of the costs of hosting nukes (with Russia then targeting them) - 2 bases in Italy, 1 each in Germany, BE, NL, TU.
Very few in Europe believe that US troops not-based in NATO would rush to Europe in time for an Article 5 deployment. Those US troops do not count. They believe that most of the bases in Europe are used by the US not for NATO but for rapid deployment/support to the Middle East and such. They believe that their perception of the Russia threat would have produced better results than the US-heavy NATO expansion post-Cold War. They KNOW that the US has been yapping for decades about 'spend more' but 'follow us in everything we do and STFU'.
Whether Europeans are right or wrong, it is the US that has never followed through on anything. Speeches by Trump/Vance/Hegseth do not constitute follow through. It's not some fucking negotiation to show that we are powerful and need a poodle. Pull troops from NATO - entirely from countries who are clearly freeloaders. If the only value the US is to add to NATO is a nuclear deterrent - if it is to become a European alliance -- then take out everything except nukes and then only in countries that welcome nukes. This isn't Art of the Deal or some other transactional bullshit. Just fucking do it and STFU about being a blow hard.
Nobody said we need Europe.
Yeah - I meant to write Europe needs us a lot less than you think.
Petti had this exact link in his story yesterday.
You don't summarize anything at all. Petti summarizes it as scaring Europe about China (that's the US problem - not Europe) and a lecture about democracy and censorship (who is the US to be the world cop about any of that stuff?). He had another story about NATO and Ukraine and such the day before.
Ah, Europe, it is my understanding from exchange students, returning study abroad college co-eds and Matt Welch that "they do things better over there".
Nearly a dozen lawsuits allege that DOGE's access to government payment and personnel systems violates a litany of federal privacy and record-handling laws.
The lawsuits related to data privacy are completely appropriate. The US has virtually zero control of data privacy outside of government. It is why BigTech has stolen trillions of $$ worth of personal data. I am assuming that those government databases have some rules related to how data is protected. If DOGE is not really 'government' - and is not subject to those same rules - then what is happening is theft of data. You can bet that Musk and his DOGgiE's know exactly how to steal that data for their own benefit and with zero accountability.
It is insane that the issues related to electronic data privacy have been known and fleshed out as guidelines' since at least 1980 - with virtually zero implementation by any private entity since then. The EU GDPR only took effect in 2016 - without any input/competition from something US-based that might protect privacy - because the US deliberately did nothing for 36 years to protect data privacy (or even define 'who owns your personal data').
So 'data theft' is, here in the US but not in Europe, a real risk of privatizing any element of government or even holding govt accountable or transparent outside FOIA.
Even this article admits it is government. The Digital Services group dumdum.
Jfree is on the take.
No, he is just ignorant.
He’s always been kind of dumb. And extremely anti semitic.
But in this he is right.
In this he is wrong and charliehall is lying pile of lefty shit.
Thanks for informing us that you agree with an antisemite.
Yeah DOGE is an existing agency and the DOGE boys have obtained the required security clearances. This entire argument was crafted by grifters trying to protect their phony baloney jobs.
You say that. A slightly more credible source says they've done none of that and have violated the Privacy Act of 1974. You say they've got 'security clearances'. Not ONE 'employee' of DoGE has been vetted for security or approved by Congress for their job or specifically approved by Congress to take over databases. So what vetting?
A lawyer who ranted about cheap fakes for months? Lol.
Congress doesn't micromanage the executive under article 2 retard.
lol, jslave going the molly route was not on my bingo card.
Congress doesn't micromanage the executive under article 2 retard.
They should more than micromanage their own legislation re spending, audit, fraud, executive overreach (executive has NO independent authority beyond CinC).
I agree that they don't do that. In large part - imo - because we have frozen the legislature. When we last expanded the legislature, the Executive Office of the President (the President's only authority that is not controlled by congress) was 37 staff. Compared to 435 elected/accountable critters who can ensure the Prez is constrained to execute the LAW rather than his will. Now that exec office is 1800 staff.
Article 1 is what creates all authority - Article 2 merely executes.
Article 2 doesn't merely execute. The Constitution also allows the Executive Branch to use discretion whenever it takes action.
DOGE is within the bounds of the Constitution.
You think every schmuck with a security clearance is vetted and approved by Congress?
I’ve had a security clearance in past years. I was neither vetted, nor approved by Congress.
JewFree is an idiot.
When the enemy is fighting you over whether not the DOGE boys have proper security clearances you've won the higher battle.
The same vetting asylum applicants get: None. The difference is that the law prohibits asylum applicants from getting vetted.
Was there a point intended there, lying pile of lefty shit?
Here's an interesting legal theory counter:
https://x.com/RenzTom/status/1887038847629877714
The plaintiffs are literally arguing that the constitution allows for a fourth branch of government populated by civil servants with the power to deny information to their political superiors and by extension the voters. This is Jacob Sullum level lunacy. I have no doubt that asshole judges in NY will sign off on this shit but I don't see the Supremes buying it and I'm predicting better than 5-4 majorities.
It’s time to start impeaching these judges. DOGE, amd the DoJ should also look into the backgrounds, and finances of these radicals democrat judges. Disbarment and criminal prosecution may be warranted as well.
The Civil Service Act dates to 1883. It allowed government employees to be hired because of competence rather than because they knew some political hack. Trump is a political hack who wants to return the US to the days when only political hacks decided who works for the government. The judges are just enforcing the law enacted by Congress.
More lies from the lying pile of lefty shit charliehall. Fuck off and die, asshole.
"Trump is a political hack"
Holy shit. I've seen delusional comments on here but this is the fucking most delusional shit I've seen.
The guy is neither left, nor right but inside your TDS-filled, pinhead he is "a political hack".
You're a fucking retard.
We can assume that Elon Musk has the best of motives. He would never deliberately try to target agencies that were investigating him or his companies, and he would never use government data for personal benefit. Only Democrats do that.
Cite? Or is this another of your vague, bullshit accusations?
I ask because you are a known liar, and employ such tactics here daily.
Yes, the NY Times is leftist. However, they do have a point that Elon Musk is trying to do-in all the agencies that get in the way of his business interests:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/20/us/politics/elon-musk-federal-agencies-contracts.html
I'll believe Musk's teenagers can do some good when they go after Pentagon waste, which is the only target so far that has any money in it. Everything he's gone after so far has been pittances that score some political points with Trump's base.
If Elon gets his way we'll have lots more of your tax dollars subsidizing SpaceX jaunts to Mars so that billionaires have a place to go when the Earth becomes uninhabitable in a few thousand years after Elon has uploaded his brain into some AI.
DOGE is going underway without our tax dollars, but with Elon's own money. That goes against your proposition.
It's an investment to get our tax dollars or maybe just more power. Just like his donations to Trump were an investment. Do you think Musk would be in the Oval office standing next to Trump if he hadn't donated millions of dollars. That money and influence is peanuts compared to what he's going to get. There are those like Musk and Trump who can never have enough.
So now I am seeing quite the noticeable uptick in scam texts and phone calls related to unemployment claims I never filed or supposed recruiters in love with my resume (that hasn't been updated in years). This is almost assuredly due to a lack of data security at OPM. And almost assuredly it is just the tip of the iceberg. It is in no way ok.
It is okay if you are a Trump supporter.
charliehall needs to fuck off and die.
1) You're lying
2) You have no idea why it's happening.
Pick one, shit-for-brains.
The restraining order "is a remarkable intrusion on the Executive Branch that is in direct conflict with Article II of the Constitution, and the unitary structure it provides,"
Well there we go, it's the Unitary Executive theory.
If you really think that the president has the legal and constitutional authority to do *whatever he wants* to the executive branch, then that places the president in the role of a dictator. The president's job is to faithfully execute the laws. These laws establish government agencies and bureaucracies to fulfill specific tasks. It is the president's job to manage these agencies, not to close them without Congressional approval. If the president wants to propose a different way to execute the laws, then fine. If the president wants to implement a certain law in the most minimalist interpretation possible, then fine. If the president wants to argue that a particular law should be repealed, then fine. But it's the president's job to implement the laws that exist.
The Trump philosophy is to do whatever he wants knowing that he’ll be out of office by the time legal challenges make their way through the system.
Good old Sarc, battling against cutting government waste and championing unelected corrupt bureaucrats.
Such a libertarian.
Who elected President Musk?
Lying piles of lefty shit seem to think lying means something.
"Musk's role as a non–Senate confirmed special government employee with massive authority to set policy is unconstitutional."
... but none of the other four thousand plus federal laws, regulations and departments since before FDR is unconstitutional. The gaping holes in their theory of constitutional law and limited government are even more massive than Musk's authority!
And, by the way, Musk does not set policy. Trump is setting policy and executing his plan under his own authority. Musk is just making recommendations to Trump.
I held a high-level security clearance for many years. To obtain it and renew it every five years, I had to undergo a detailed and invasive background investigation and report all overseas travel. The background check included my high school girlfriend, whom I hadn't seen in over 30 years, former neighbors, former co-workers, etc. Even with that clearance, I only had access to data necessary for my assignments, and I understood I would be prosecuted for revealing any of it. I also could not take any electronic equipment into areas where secure data was stored or accessible. I'm not opposed to Musk's "kiddies" examining government data, but I am opposed to them doing so without undergoing a thorough background check and following the same rules. Further, if they are allowed to insert or modify program code, they must do so under the same regulations and supervision as any other government programmer. Allowing unrestricted, unsupervised access by kids without a background check violates every principle of cybersecurity and could expose data that harms each of us and our country.
I don't suppose that it might have occurred to you to question the procedures you so dramatically described as to necessity or effectiveness at protecting the security of the United States? Isn't it just possible that most of that was bureaucratic nonsense to heighten the impressiveness and mystique of bureaucrats in general and the "intelligence community" more specifically, while protecting them from embarrassment if everyone knew how little they were actually accomplishing? No, I thought not ...
^this
The rules of stupid. Classification is over-broad and over used to the point of absurdity. Who cares what's the secret clearance level of the guy who finds the 2B going to transgender performative art is Bugagoogoo Australia and Trump cancels it. Good on Trump, good on his team, good on Elon.
Actually, as someone who currently holds a background checked clearance to have access to nuclear weapons information, I'm calling BS on his claims in general, since mine only went back 10 years for most things. I did have to talk about and provide contact information for my ex-wife but that was a legally binding relationship. No way did homeboy have to mention his high school girlfriend, unless she was from North Korea or Iran.
And given what I notionally have access to (short of the general "need to know" requirement) I don't think what I went through is overkill. But the DOGE folks aren't accessing that level of info.
Those nuclear codes, do they require at least 8 characters and/or numbers and one other special character?
Asking for a friend.
I'm not opposed to Musk's "kiddies" examining government data, but I am opposed to them doing so without undergoing a thorough background check and following the same rules.
This right here. Team Red thinks that the rules shouldn't apply to them.
Every time someone complains about their opinion, they are being 'canceled'.
Every time they get in trouble with the law, then it's 'lawfare'.
Now they want to root around in the government full of all sorts of sensitive and private information, and if anyone dares to complain, they are 'pro-waste'.
You’re being completely disingenuous here.
They were literally being silenced by social media, doxxed and harangued by leftist assholes. No one has compared complaints with cancellation.
They were being charged with complete bullshit that even many sane Democrat supporters recognized as such.
The American people have every fucking right to know exactly where every dollar the government spends is going. ESPECIALLY WHEN ITS GOING TO SUPPOSED NGO’S.
Where federal dollars go, apart from black budgets, is public information.
Oh good, we don’t need some goth teen destroying everything for the lulz after all.
As for conservatives being silenced by social media, good. They were spreading lies that got untold thousands of people killed. They lie too much and should be censored when they do.
Not that it’s any of the federal government’s business who a private company allows on its property, libertarian.
The "goth teen" has proven that the notion that the idea of where federal dollars go is already public is nothing short of a lie.
You also left out that those 1) those private companies censored conservatives under direction of the Biden administration and the DNC before it (Zuckerberg admitted to doing this), and 2) conservatives were speaking the truth in many of those situations.
You do not believe in freedom of speech. You're perfectly fine for companies to act under the direction of government to censor political opponents. This flies in the face of the 1st Amendment.
No he is right. And Musk and Trump now own the most important social media platforms.
No, charliehall is wrong and is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
Trump has no ownership of any social media platforms. You are lying.
Now we know that you support censorship of political opponents. You do not believe in the 1st Amendment. I can only imagine how you felt when the Disinformation Governance Board got dissolved...
The rules should NOT apply to them ... or anyone else for that matter because they are stupid rules. Part of what the Trump wrecking ball is accomplishing is to throw all of the old rules out and start over again if and when. The old rules are what led to a massive deep state, a deeply entrenched bureaucracy and an uncountable number of laws, agencies and regulations that are not doing what they were touted to do when implemented. But whine all you want about how unfair it is while the real world rushes past you!
>>I am opposed to them doing so without undergoing a thorough background check and following the same rules.
mho your process history has no bearing anymore as it also was part of the machina quae delenda est
I'm not opposed to Musk's "kiddies" examining government data, but I am opposed to them doing so without undergoing a thorough background check and following the same rules.
Why?
I DON'T TRUST THEM. At least government employees are subject to some rules governing their access to data. What are the rules that Musk's kiddos are subject to?
I trust any political appointee acting on behalf of a president who works actively to reduce the size and scope of the bloated corrupt federal bureaucracy. If you were a true libertarian, you would feel the same.
^this
It's not that he doesnt trust them. he doesnt like what they're doing, plain and simple.
lol
Maybe, no one should be given the infinite benefit of the doubt, the way so many on Team Red grant Trump and his team?
Trump is and always has been a charlatan and a grifter. He is all image, no substance. He is only successful when he is able to con you into thinking he is successful. And this is not even getting into his abominable moral character.
Musk is in it for Musk. He is the world's biggest welfare queen.
With this current DOGE enterprise, he has so many conflicts of interest, they could fill a SpaceX rocket. Yes he was under investigation by a host of regulatory agencies. Were they ALL lawfare? Even the ones that specifically dealt with car crashes involving his self-driving cars? Even the ones where actual people were hurt? Even the ones that were not initiated by the regulatory agencies themselves? Calling it all "lawfare" is to minimize the conflicts of interests.
If ANYONE on Team Blue were doing the same thing - mucking around government regulatory agencies who *just so happened* to be investigating that person at the time - not a single one of you would be willing to excuse that behavior. And that includes myself. But when Elon does it, then he is excused.
You all are just oblivious to the perfidy that Team Red is capable of and is committing because, I suppose, you see some higher goal. If you are willing to excuse illegal and unethical behavior because it gives you spending cuts, then what else will you excuse?
Hey man, this is a once in a generation or two opportunity - if you have that kind of chance to make the world's greatest omelette I'm for breaking a few eggs. Do the job and perform the clean up afterwards. There is nothing stopping accountability IF someone does something untoward with someone's tax info.... oh wait - i guess those dont matter since that Dem operative released Trumps forms.
Pedo Jeffy has zero interest in cutting spending or government reform. He is beholden to the Democrat machine and the Soros agenda.
Yes. The eggs that are being broken now (if any, we'll see) weren't worth keeping.
Trust is not required in this case. I didn't trust the keepers of the data before Trump and I will not trust the keepers of the data after he's long gone. It is irrelevant. The goal here is to destroy beyond recovery at least 80% of the federal bureaucracy and render their rules, taxes and databases null and void.
Just because you don’t know the rules, doesn’t mean there aren’t any.
I think the complaint is not that the "kiddies" have access to classified information, but that they might have access to private information. The former requires a security clearance, the latter does not. I expect that the "kiddies" don't care about personal information, but rather systems and practices information.
The White House granted them clearance. So that’s settled right there.
I’ll take things that never happened for $1000 Alex.
But but but IF they do happen..... We have to make sure any possible kind of abuse we can imagine CANT happen before we allow anything to proceed. *subtext - hopefully Dems will be back in charge by then*
"I held a high-level security clearance for many years. To obtain it and renew it every five years, I had to undergo a detailed and invasive background investigation and report all overseas travel."
We don't care how you 'justify' your TDS. Fuck off and die, asshole.
"I held a high-level security clearance for many years..."
On the web, only you can prove yourself to be a lying pile of shit, Rog1.
walk right through every one of these "rulings" until the judges can show us what enforcement means please and thank you.
Enforcement means the judge sends out a bailiff to fight their way past the Secret Service, the FBI and the US Marshals to arrest you. ROFLMGDAO
Seems like I saw this movie a long time ago. I think it was called "The Empire Fights Back." The good guys won in the movie, here's hoping it happens again.
It has been my contention since Trump Round 1 that what libertarians and conservatives ACTUALLY want is neutered presidency. No one actually wants a constitutional presidency.
That's why the Administrate state exists, solely overseen by Congress. Which is not the constitutional set up of our government.
Trump has been the most consistent president in exercising his constitutional duties and the squalling that engenders proves his detractors as enemies of the Constitution.
Then you bend over and get fucked by your pig dictator and leave the rest of us out of it.
Reducing the size and power of government is dictatorship!
It is to a leftist retard.
DOGE is not about reducing government or saving money. It is about Musk controlling the government.
It is to a leftist retard.
Then why did they fire the workers whose job it was to cut down on waste and fraud? Many of which saved the government billions. Because Trump and Musk don't really care about it. This whole “waste and fraud” shtick is a smokescreen that MAGAmorons are falling for.
"Then why did they fire the workers whose job it was to cut down on waste and fraud?"
Did.
Not.
Happen.
Lying.
Pile.
Of.
Lefty.
Shit.
When a dictator does it without Congress it is you stupid poodle.
It is to a slimy lying leftist retard.
These lefty talking points are already seen as getting no traction with the public that has been marinating in the propaganda from the legacy media for the last 60 years - why would you think they'd have any currency in this comment section??
[dictator, greedy billionaire, prez musk..... (pathetic) ]
Do you suppose this endeavor is being accomplished by men who know what they’re doing?
All these existing tech bros ever did was take credit for things and steal the money from the guys who did the actual work. Trump’s only known qualification for anything is similarly being a psychopathic blowhard.
Aren’t you worried about the damage that will be done that will damage the small-government cause forever? Not to mention the lives of the people he’s literally throwing in extrajudicial prisons.
Of course you aren’t. You’ll just find a nice comfy corner of the internet that tells you canned sardines for every meal was always a gourmet experience.
You’re just a raving Marxist faggot. Your precious democrats are about to be destroyed and you’re in panic mode.
Seethe harder bitch. You lost, and it’s Trumpin’ time.
But I’m good at personal finance and you think starving old people will somehow make you money, which apart from being psychopathic, is not how any of this works.
a) old people wont starve
b) no I'm not worried about damage to the small govt cause by the attempt to make govt smaller
"But I’m good at personal finance..."
Every comment you've posted here suggests strongly that you're lying about this like every other claim you've ever made.
You are an abysmally ignorant pile of lefty shit, period.
How bout that. Trump is sending your "pig dictators" packing back to their Blue-State Governments. What's that about 200,000 so far?
You’re welcome to get the fuck out any time you want. We’re Americans, and this is our country. You’re just a democrat interloper.
Best you GTFO now.
Americans kill fascists.
You'd be dead.
"it's generally been left up to the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), *an executive agency*, to decide when inter-agency data sharing qualifies"
...and the executive agencies 'head' is who?
Democrats are just throwing spaghetti at the wall again.
If DOGE can not function without violating federal law then it needs to go away.
Good thing it’s not.
It’s totally legal. Unlike everything they’ve uncovered. You democrats are going to suffer for what you have done.
DOGE is simply a means for billionaires to privatize the majority of government functions without any democratic/public oversight. I can see why that might seem attractive to libertarians at first glance but on what basis do these services get tendered? Why does a certain privileged class get all the spoils?
It’s also odd to see libertarians complain about the executive being tied up in knots. The executive branch is supposed to carry out laws approved by Congress and allowed by the courts. That’s why it’s „executive“. The President should not be legislating independently nor overriding Congressional spending decisions unilaterally. The Presidency has gotten far too strong over the last 90 years. I remember when Libertarians hated FDR. Now they are cheering a far stupider man attempting overreach. If you want to enjoy the benefits of an unfettered executive try Turkey, Hungary or Russia. You will quickly notice that unfettered executives actually create a worse business environment than the institutional bureaucratic rot we enjoy in the US. DOGE is an out of the frying pan into the blast furnace solution to our problems.
What's funny is the "intellectual" architect of this shitshow Curtis Yarvin (pal of JD Vance and co), justifies eliminating democracy in favor of authoritarianism by pointing to FDR.
So are they fans of FDR? Of course not. He's their historical arch nemesis. Yet his supposed authoritarianism (which, war aside, never happened without the usual checks and balances, of course) justifies their own.
"We can do something because someone we despise did it first."
Moral logic, you see.
Is Trump building an UN-Constitutional [Na]tional So[zi]alist Empire?
Or is Trump destroying a [Na]tional So[zi]alist Empire to save the US Constitution?
The fact you two are trying to equate a USA with a Nazi-Empire says everything about where your agendas are.
See, I was making a specific point. You moronic fascist testicles justify your hysterical power grabs by claiming that someone else did it first. The fact that it was bad the first time and is OK now is left unexplained.
Nazi is as Nazi does. Your current fat lesbian daddy gives Nazi salutes and says Nazi things and turned Shitter into a Nazi hangout.
I still believe in being an American. I know what Americans do to Nazis.
Were you NOT just complaining about ending "security for socialists"?
What do you think the term Nazi means?
Nazism - "Also known as: National Socialism"
https://www.britannica.com/event/Nazism
Its official name in Germany is [Na]zionalso[zi]alistische.
You're not even the pot calling the kettle black.
You're the pot calling a spoon black because you spot a reflection of yourself.
I know this has been explained to you a million times, but Naziism wasn’t an economic policy program.
Plenty of people who called themselves socialists and communists have been mass-murdering tyrants.
It’s no skin off my dick, I don’t call myself a socialist or a communist.
And what do you suppose led them into being, "mass-murdering tyrants" if it wasn't their "Nazi economic policy"?
Your cognitive dissonance is unprecedented.
"I know this has been explained to you a million times, but Naziism wasn’t an economic policy program."
I know you're too unlettered to know this, but it was *specifcally* an economic program; "National Socialism".
"It’s no skin off my dick, I don’t call myself a socialist or a communist."
That's simply a product of dishonesty on your part, fuck-face.
FDR wanted to pack the courts and he rounded up citizens of Japanese descent, stole all their property and out them in camps.
So fuck off you Marxist liar.
Unlike you babies in adult skin suits, I do not worship any politician as if he were my daddy and I was sucking his tit. They all suck in ways and occasionally do good things. Trump is getting rid of the penny. He found one!
Lying pile of lefty shit.
Or maybe Trump with DOGE is just, "and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
The complete OPPOSITE of what FDR did.
I didn't realize Donald Trump was such an esteemed constitutional scholar that he didn't even need any help from Congress or the judiciary to help him preserve it.
What judiciary ruling? There hasn't been any.
What Congress legislation? Democrats past legislation put all the power into the Executive. Where do you think Trump got the authority to EO Tariffs? (it was FDR s [D]-trifecta congress)
But we all know FDR wasn't at-all an esteemed constitutional scholar (nor Biden, nor Obama)... That's why FDR threatened to stuff the judiciary after it ruled his Socialist "New Deal" UN-Constitutional and Biden just ignored SCOTUS telling him Loan-Forgiveness and W.H. censorship was UN-Constitutional.
Historian extraordinaire as always, TJJ2000.
So because, as you ridiculously claim, Democrats gave too much power to the executive, Democrats were right in doing so?
Or is one insane clown dumpster strongman making national and global policing by fiat perhaps not the most libertarian thing one can imagine?
You’re just raving. There is nothing wrong with what Trump is doing. You just don’t like it.
Seethe harder.
Except all the lawbreaking. But what do you expect from the most corrupt American ever to exist?
I’ll grant you this, he’s a survivor.
"Except all the lawbreaking. But what do you expect from the most corrupt American ever to exist?"
Biden was voted out; we now have about the most honest POTUS in history, but lying piles of lefty shit lie about him, lying pile of lefty shit.
We realize you to be a fucking TDS-addled lying pile of shit. Fuck off and die, asshole.
Eloquent as ever, Sevo.
He’s being nice to you. Far nicer than you deserve.
You should know that being insulted by libertarians is like my kink.
You should fuck off and die.
I thought your kink involved being DAP’d by BBC’s at your local bathhouse. Like the incident that caused your near fatal rectal rupture.
Why does a certain privileged class get all the spoils?
This is precisely what DOGE is uncovering - spoils are going to NGOs, foreign 'cultural' organizations, foreign 'humanitarian' aid (terrorists), and, of course, kick-backs to Congresscritters and their cronies. And now the Congresscritters and their cronies are howling in fear of losing their sinecures.
"DOGE is simply a means for billionaires to privatize the majority of government functions without any democratic/public oversight..."
Stuff your TDS up your ass; your head is begging for company.
The Deep State is in pure panic mode.
They are only worried about protecting their phony baloney jobs and secrets.
The lawsuits are DOA once they get beyond the activist shill judges.
DOGE is an unconstitutional bit of horseshit, so it doesn't need to survive. If they had done proper audits to make laws that go through Congress then it would be a different matter, but as it stands cases will make it to SCOTUS and they will destroy this made up Trumpian piece of shit being headed by chief huckster Melon Husk.
Its UN-Constitutional for the President to have a consultation service?
And if that is the case it was UN-Constitutional for Obama who, "The USDS was launched on August 11, 2014 by president Barack Obama."
See above. DOGE was rebranded from an already existing department created by the Obama administration.
Article II also states that the Executive Branch is free to use any discernment over itself. DOGE is perfectly within the constitutional limits.
You do not believe in the Constitution. I would wager most court cases will be more than 5-4 in favor of the Trump administration.
The basis of TDS.
What separates Trump from any other President?
"He's hollowing out [OUR] public (i.e. [Na]tional So[zi]alist Empire of) institutions", DNC platform.
It's impossible to hate Trump and/or DOGE being the most Libertarian president in the last century and still pretend to be Libertarian unless you're nothing but a cult of FAKE 'words' and ideals while hating any 'action' towards those ideals.
Speaking as someone who wants to see the federal government reduced in size and who has also worked in government and cut budgets, Doge is going about it the wrong way and will certainly lose most of these lawsuits. They should be working through the newly appointed cabinet heads who certainly have a right to see budget and personnel information for their departments. Of course, that would require actual work and is not nearly as satisfying as saying “You’re Fired “. The buyout offer was a step in the right direction. If they’d actually worked with people who understood federal regulations they could have worded the offer in such a way that the unions would have less of an argument in their lawsuits. Again, just not as satisfying as saying “You’re Fired “.
What they're saying is "fuck federal regulations".
"Speaking as someone who wants to see the federal government reduced in size and who has also worked in government and cut budgets,..."
On the web, only you can prove yourself to be a lair.
Why hasn't Reason reported on the blunder of firing the Nuclear stockpile workers and then trying to hurry and rehire them ? It's been days and not a peep. Those doge idiots have no idea what the hell they are doing.
"These systems have traditionally been operated by career employees at the Treasury Department"
I bet the largest number of actual "reads" of those Databases are by contractors, regardless of a large number of Feds who have theoretical access privileges
Why do you guys continue to act as if the DOGE group are actually competent? They have no clue regarding how to handle the data they are getting access too. No respect for privacy laws, or any other laws for that matter. Not even the ability to actually run a COBOL query. It seems you all have fallen victim to their gaslighting.
Let's try to have a modicum of of real reporting and analysis. As a supporter in the past, I'll remember all of this during your next fund-raising drive.
The receipts are in their websites. DOGE has completely exposed the deep state. This warrants that, yes, they are competent and know what they're doing.
No privacy laws are broken. No government employee has been doxxed. There's no gaslighting in any of this.
DODGE (Department of Donors to Government Executives) not understanding COBOL doesn't speak to it's competence.
"career employees"
Need to prepare.
This is IMHO just a dress rehearsal for when AI replaces all these phoney-baloney .gov jobs. Look at all the wailing and gnashing of teeth for this relatively minor belt-tightening.
The real massacre is still on the horizon.
That's o.k. if you want your Social Security or income tax refund checks to be cut by the same kind of AI that helps you get your Verizon router fixed.
Well in truth what you or I think about it is irrelevant, it will happen.