Election Reforms Blocked by Elections
Ranked choice voting and nonpartisan primaries suffered a bad election cycle in 2024.

Several proposed election reforms on the 2024 ballot offered promising solutions: Reduce the power of partisan primaries, ensure more robust competition in general elections, and increase the likelihood that winning campaigns represent the median voter rather than a lesser-of-two-evils result.
But it seems voters aren't interested in all that.
In November, voters across several Western states defeated a series of ballot measures aimed at overhauling how they select their representatives and how votes in those races are tallied. The results are an undeniable setback for a reform movement that seemed to be gaining steam in recent years. But advocates for these changes say this is not the end.
In Colorado, Idaho, and Montana, voters rejected ballot measures that sought to replace partisan primary elections with a so-called top-four primary, where all candidates compete in a single, nonpartisan primary election and the four highest vote-getters advance to the general election. A similar top-five primary proposal in Nevada was also voted down, and a top-two primary was rejected by voters in South Dakota.
Had they passed, the ballot initiatives in Colorado, Idaho, Montana, and Nevada would also have adopted ranked choice voting for general elections. In that model, voters are asked to rank their choices (from one through four, for example). If no candidate gets an outright majority on the first ballot, the last-place finisher is eliminated and that candidate's votes are redistributed, based on their voters' second-choice preferences. The process repeats until one candidate secures a majority.
Other ballot initiatives to implement ranked choice voting were defeated in Arizona and Oregon. Yet voters in Washington, D.C., overwhelmingly approved a ranked choice ballot measure. That might say something about how this idea has germinated within the electorate: It is widely accepted by policy wonks and others who spend a lot of time thinking about politics but is viewed skeptically by many run-of-the-mill voters.
Supporters of those changes believe that abolishing partisan primaries and ensuring that general election winners have majority support will shift the equation for successful campaigns. Rather than rewarding only candidates who can appeal to the fringes of the two major parties in low-turnout primaries, an open primary would create more paths for candidates to reach the general election—and winners would have to appeal to the broadest cross-section of voters.
Imagine a district where Republicans easily outnumber Democrats. Under the current system in most states, whichever candidate wins the GOP primary will be an overwhelming favorite in the general election—even if he or she would not be the choice of most voters in the district, but only becomes so in comparison with the one other candidate from the opposing party. In a top-four or top-five primary, that candidate would be unable to capture one of the major parties' valuable labels and would have to win a general election against a slate of opponents that might include one or two other Republicans, a Democrat, and perhaps a third party candidate as well.
The outcome might be the same in the end, but the process would give voters in that district a more competitive set of choices in November.
"At the end of the day, democracy can't endure if our elections continue to be controlled by the fringes of both political parties in low-turnout party primaries," says Nick Troiano, executive director of Unite America, a nonprofit that has pushed for reforms such as ranked choice voting and open primaries. According to a recent study the group published, about 87 percent of congressional races in 2024 were effectively determined by the 7 percent of eligible voters who voted in primary elections—largely because partisan gerrymandering has rendered many congressional elections noncompetitive in general elections.
Political parties are less enthusiastic about changes that could reduce their ability to control the election process. In Nevada and Montana most prominently, state-level parties campaigned hard against the proposed changes.
Sticking to the status quo of partisan primaries does nothing to address the underlying problem of "primaries that serve as a bottleneck, keeping many of the candidates with the broadest appeal and best qualifications off the general election ballot," says Walter Olson, a senior fellow at the libertarian Cato Institute, who supports these changes. "I don't think people want to leave this problem unaddressed. So I think we'll hear more about this relatively measured and sensible reform idea."
Troiano says Unite America is not ready to give up on improving America's elections. "Every successful movement from history, from marriage equality to women's suffrage, faced setbacks," he says. "They didn't give up, and neither will we."
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Actual enumeration of a vote is the way to go, with a run-off election, if necessary. Ranked choice is nothing but statistical sophistry.
Sensible reform, my ass.
You're right. KEEP IT SIMPLE. And don't expect the lawmakers - who have attained their positions via the current system - to vote to "reform" that system.
Sensible reform however, could be possible on a smaller scale. So let's reform the LP!
1) Drum out the Marxist/elitist/fascist phonies who have infiltrated the LP, as evidenced by much of the excrement we read here every day. In other words, TAKE BACK the LP.
2) Cease and desist any temptation to run a LP presidential candidate. Put all the energy and support of actual libertarians behind the most libertarian candidate of the major parties, starting with the primaries*. Make it so the major parties are forced to compete with each other to be the most libertarian; realize how much influence the LP could have by reinforcing the vote rather than diluting it.
* Adapt to the rules of each state in order to participate most effectively in the primaries. And frankly, I would drop the idea of a Libertarian "Party" altogether. There should be no need for a separate party to UNITE the people.
Ranked choice is nothing but statistical sophistry.
Possibilities:
1. You're stupid
2. You're not stupid, but you don't understand RCV
3. You do understand it but think that it will disfavour the GOP
4. You don't think it will disfavour the GOP but you just don't like it though you can't make a rational argument against it.
5. Don't see any benefit what-so-ever short of cutting out the runoff process.
Good. Those are terrible "reforms".
"Troiano says Unite America is not ready to give up on improving America's elections. "Every successful movement from history, from marriage equality to women's suffrage, faced setbacks," he says. "They didn't give up, and neither will we.""
That is quite an arrogant threat.
Ranked choice voting and "non-partisan" primaries foster abuse and fraud and are seen as fostering abuse and fraud. Their rejection by voters is an example of the (small d) democratic process *working*
More to the point, the math is fake, and the results BAD just about every time it is tried. Voting-at-gunpoint is also pushed as a "good" idea, with goofy math requiring dumb premises to doll it up. So, how many here want a Brazilian economic system? Australian girl-bullying to throw another individual right on the barbie? The Kleptocracy is bleeding support. It will tell any lie, twist any law to stop leveraged spoiler votes from playing their crummy coalitions against each other and bartering away boodle to repeal bad laws.
Smells like an idea pushed by California.
Two wolves and a sheep vote on a new system for voting what's for dinner.
In Missouri, we also banned ranked choice voting. Probably because we saw how well the so-called 'jungle primary' 'reform' worked in the City of St. Louis.
Candidates became less moderate and politics became more racially charged, and opposition parties were even further excluded from participating. You can't even cast a protest ballot for some down-ballot 3rd party option anymore.
Ranked choice is not terribly transparent, requires longer to process the votes and can be gamed to a greater extent.
There are issues with are election systems, but these kinds of election procedural gimmicks are not solving those problems.
According to a recent study the group published, about 87 percent of congressional races in 2024 were effectively determined by the 7 percent of eligible voters who voted in primary elections
That isn't a failure of primaries, but a failure of participation. Nothing stops more voters from voting in those primaries, closed or not.
primaries that serve as a bottleneck, keeping many of the candidates with the broadest appeal and best qualifications off the general election ballot
This is consultant speak for "shut up and vote for what we give you faggot.". Fuck you.
It's not consultant speak but lying Marxist propagandist speak. Just look at areas that have implemented this horseshit and ask is this the most qualified and broadest appeal candidate?
The problem is that both parties game the general election and restrict candidates and favor their party system at taxpayer expense.
The solution is to kill party involvement in the general election rule making . we may be the only country where parties control election rule making. Not to turn primaries into a taxpayer paid thing without parties
Unite Germany didn't give up either. When Bert Hoover, Anslinger and the League stomped on German pharma, Hitler seen his chances and took 'em.
Observe that from the founding till 1972, all third and fourth parties were for higher taxes and more slavery, so the voting system was OK. Only since Libertarian Party vote growth cowed the bigots into overruling Comstockism and doling out individual rights here and there do "we" suddenly need an Australian-style at-gunpoint voting system. How DARE those upstarts buy votes for 1/200th of what real LOOTER parties spent?! https://libertariantranslator.wordpress.com/2023/06/13/shopping-for-clout/
Yet voters in Washington, D.C., overwhelmingly approved a ranked choice ballot measure. That might say something about how this idea has germinated within the electorate: It is widely accepted by policy wonks and others who spend a lot of time thinking about politics but is viewed skeptically by many run-of-the-mill voters.
Most voters in D.C. aren't "policy wonks". Most of the policy wonks probably live in suburban Maryland or Virginia. Don't they? D.C. voters are overwhelmingly urban and poor, and so more likely to be dissatisfied with the current system. At least that would be my guess. But a lot would depend on whether or not this was voted on at an election that also attracted a large turnout for its contests between candidates. If not, then maybe it was mostly "wonks" voting.
DC is 38% non Hispanic white and 41% black. Per capita income is higher than any state - with also the highest poverty rate of any state other than Mississippi. Half the population has a college degree
Wanna see what ranked-choice voting gets you? See CA and San Francisco; two governmental disaster zones.
Can't have Ranked Choice Voting and Non-Partisan Primaries because we must be partisan all the time! This has been accelerating even before trump. As we have been told over and over and over again, by BOAF SIDES, the problem with elections is that our side sometimes loses. Ranked Choice Voting only ensure that our side sometimes loses moar. Non-Partisan Primaries only means stridently partisan nominee might lose to a squishy OPINO (Our Party in Name Only).
Hell, let's just get rid of elections and have Dear Leader select the winners. Monarchy wasn't so bad, was it?
Non-partisan 'Jungle' primaries in St. Louis, as we've implemented them the past several years, have had the completely opposite effect.
We used to have a choice in the Democratic primary between a progressive and a moderate. If our choice didn't win, we could always throw a protest vote for the Republican (25%-30%) or one of the 3rd party candidates (Under 5%).
Now, all of those other guys get weeded out in the 'open' primary, and in the general election we get our choice of a Very Progressive (white) Democrat, and a Very Progressive (black) Democrat.
Ranked Choice should be banned by Constitutional Amendment. It's as patently anti-American as it possibly gets. Any frustration it faces in any state is a good thing.
Anybody who supports it even slightly should have their citizenship revoked and then be exiled. Supporting RCV is effectively saying, "I truly hate America, Americans, and the Constitution."
"At the end of the day, democracy can't endure if our elections continue to be controlled by the fringes of both political parties in low-turnout party primaries," says Nick Troiano
Nonsense. That is democracy enduring. If people can't be bothered to go out and seek the representative they want, and then put in the effort to get that representative elected - then they get the government of the fringes that do. That's on them. That's their democratic choice.
The Founders made it very clear what was necessary for this nation to work properly: an informed and engaged citizenry that actively participates in their own governance.
If you can't be bothered, or you come from some backwards ignorant non-Western culture that doesn't understand it and doesn't bother to learn it, then shut up. You surrender your right to complain about things like election results.
Several proposed election reforms on the 2024 ballot offered promising solutions: Reduce the power of partisan primaries
What in the sam hell is wrong with a partisan primary? Show your work.
Actual arguments against RCV boil down to:
1. Americans are too stupid
2. American polling systems are technically backward
3 We like our present two party system too much to change it
Yep, that's it. That's all it comes down to. Or does it?
Exhaustion is just a function of there not being any attractive candidates for a number of voters. Suppose there's just a small number of candidates, and a good number of voters don't vote at all — which is a feature of plurality voting as well. Then their votes are "exhausted" to begin with. Or let's say you like one candidate and despise all the others; if your candidate doesn't win, you're exhausted after that vote. And so on. I don't see why this is to be considered a particular problem of IRV. Ain't no voting system going to fix things for the most dissident voters.
The biggest one is that it double counts the preferences of those who choose a minor candidate as their first choice. THOSE voters get a second vote, but someone voting for a major candidate gets only one vote.
I've pointed this out before, and that it could be corrected by allowing each voter to have (for example) three votes, AND allowing him to put the same name at each level. If a minor candidate is eliminated in the first round, then we add the first and second choices of everyone. If someone feels so strongly that they want a likely to be eliminated minor candidate in each level, then that is their choice. However, if that voter wanted a minor candidate in the first choice level, but given that that candidate was likely to be eliminated was willing to take a less than perfect minor candidate as a second choice along with everyone else's second choice, then it might work. In either case, the scoring is a PITA, but it might work.
But it's not about intelligence of the electorate, absence of computation power, or anyone liking having two major parties locked in a death match.
No, the actual argument against it is that it is grossly undemocratic and directly undermines any notion of Representative Government.
We vote for the person we want in this country, SRG. Not the person we'll settle for. And that's true even if you're a party-line voter. If you blindly voted R all the way top-to-down ballot, then in 2024 you said, "I want Donald J. Trump and JD Vance to represent me as President." If you did the same for D, then it was "I want Kamala Harris and Tim Walz to represent me." Even if you held your nose to do it, that's what you said when you cast that ballot. And you said it for every candidate from President to Dog Catcher.
Losertarians (and/or Bernie Bros) are upset because they know that the person they think would best represent them has no chance. There aren't enough Americans on board with them (maybe if they weren't constantly shilling for recreational drug use, prostitution, and border jumping...). That's a messaging problem, not an election/voting problem.
We don't have a two-party system in this nation. We have a however many parties we want system. If you want to attract people away from R's and D's, the answer isn't RCV - it's putting forth the effort to remind people of what their vote is and what it means. And putting up candidates that they can get behind.
40% of people love oranges, and like mangoes. 30% of people love mangoes, like bananas, and hate oranges. 30% of people like mangoes, love bananas and hate oranges. Only one fruit can be selected
An idiot prefers the system where everyone gets oranges.
You're not obligated to get oranges.
Pack your bags and move to a mango or banana state. You'll actually be happier there. The Founders built this into the system.
Oh, wait, are there no mango or banana states? Gosh, maybe put more effort into espousing the merits of mangos and bananas.
The majority isn't made up of what people hate. It's made up of what they like. We vote on what we want. Not on what we don't want. That is why RCV is fundamentally anti-American and why anyone who supports it hates this nation and every citizen in it.
If you don't like it, you're free to move to (as you perceive it) greener pastures. That's how this all works so perfectly.
But that's not what you want, is it. What you want is to oppress anyone who doesn't vote for the one, two, three, or more people who you'd prefer over who they DID vote to represent them.
Moving the goalposts, I see.
Using terms you don't understand, I see.
In November, voters across several Western states defeated a series of ballot measures aimed at overhauling how they select their representatives and how votes in those races are tallied.
Think about this language. We had the best, most secure election ever in 2020 (according to the well-informed scribblers in our Robust Media sphere) and yet an "overhaul" is required to make them better in 2024.
Does it never occur to anyone that maybe people just aren't that into you?
"At the end of the day, democracy can't endure if our elections continue to be controlled by the fringes of both political parties in low-turnout party primaries," says Nick Troiano, executive director of Unite America, a nonprofit that has pushed for reforms such as ranked choice voting and open primaries. According to a recent study the group published, about 87 percent of congressional races in 2024 were effectively determined by the 7 percent of eligible voters who voted in primary elections
(you should see the studies that the Tobacco industry published!-- anyhoo)
Here is an image that Nick Troiano pimps, hoping that all of America can vote this way.
I consider myself to be a relatively well-informed person. The instructions for this ballot are vague-- and I can easily see normies who don't argue on the internet all day being potentially confused by this. I can see a lot of voters simply not choosing a candidate (and for fuck sakes, it has 6 candidate rankings. How many people with dyslexia or are just in a hurry might accidentally choose a candidate twice after they get past their first and maybe second choice?)
I can see a LOT of voters simply voting for the main candidate(s) they care about and then not filling out the rest of the choices- which again, leads to "ballot exhaustion"-- a major problem with RCV (IRV) voting.
Why is this a problem at all? Once you get past the ones you actually like and they don't win, why is your choice between the dregs you never liked (but which apparently a large enough number of voters to elect do like) important?
1. Why are advocates no longer calling it Instant Runoff Voting, but instead using the more general term Ranked Choice Voting? IRV is only one of a few means of getting a result from ranked choices, so why is the more precise term out of favor now?
2. Why are all these IRV elections paired with preliminary nonpartisan primaries? Why bother having a preliminary stage rather than proceeding directly to IRV, which would seem to accomplish in one election what the primary is supposed to do only one step of? Having 2 stages also reintroduces the extra time and expense of a runoff that the instant runoff method is to eliminate.
3, Why are the arguments against IRV so bogus?
1. Why are advocates no longer calling it Instant Runoff Voting, but instead using the more general term Ranked Choice Voting? IRV is only one of a few means of getting a result from ranked choices, so why is the more precise term out of favor now?
There is no 'precise' term. This process is designed to introduce imprecision that can be exploited by the left.
2. Why are all these IRV elections paired with preliminary nonpartisan primaries? Why bother having a preliminary stage rather than proceeding directly to IRV, which would seem to accomplish in one election what the primary is supposed to do only one step of? Having 2 stages also reintroduces the extra time and expense of a runoff that the instant runoff method is to eliminate.
The non partisan primary allows the left to eliminate enough of the right's candidates to insure that the election will be a 'choice' between two identical leftists.
3, Why are the arguments against IRV so bogus?
They're not. Saying that they are is a tactic used because the arguments against IRV cannot be refuted, particularly by their leftist proponents.
Note-- if you support IRV or RCV or any of these types of vote count obscuration programs you ARE a leftist, either an active evil or one of the mindless mass of useful idiots leftism requires.
> ... At the end of the day, democracy can't endure...
We do not have "democracy." When ~65% of eligible voters participate and the winner(s) is determined by fewer than 78% of the votes cast -- 78% of 65% participation equals 50.7% of eligibile voters -- it is not "democratic".
Trump failed to win this past election "democratically." He garnered 49.9% of the "popular vote". Sure, it beats Harris' 48.4%, and it secured the required electoral votes, but it does not reflect a majority of votes. Indeed, 50.1% of the voters voted against Trump. And with voter participation slightly less than 65%, that means that Trump was elected by less than 1/3 of the eligible voters. In other words, 2/3 of eligible voters did not vote for Trump. That is not "democracy".
Now, I am all for pure democracy so long as candidates must win greater than 50% of the possible votes and uncast votes count as "Nay" down the entire ballot.
Good luck finding a candidate that can win 78% of the votes when voter participation is 65% and the other 35% count as "No".
"Several proposed election reforms on the 2024 ballot offered promising solutions"
aaaand ... NONE of the things listed after this are actually promising solutions. So much for "Reason."
Voters in 2024 generally responded poorly to campaigners telling them they only opposed RCV because they didn't understand it. It amounted to calling the voters stupid.
Most of them ARE stupid.
What voters hate is not having the votes counted by the end of election day. What voters hate more is vote counting taking weeks. RCV, IRV, or whatever guarantee vote counting taking a long time. What it will also do is have a party that dominates a state, dominate it even further. The main election will be, say, democrat one vs democrat 2. Enough with the gimmicks. If you want your small party to grow, do the work and actually campaign.