Celebrating Brian Thompson's Killing Is Ghoulish
Vigilante murder of corporate bosses is not going to fix any of the problems with America's health care system.

The most telling sentence in a lengthy Wall Street Journal article about Luigi Mangione, the Ivy League-educated scion of a prominent Maryland family who is suspected of shooting UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, is surprisingly banal: "It wasn't clear what dealings he had with health insurance companies."
As Business Insider reported, Mangione complained about terrible back pain in social-media posts "and what he felt to be the healthcare system's inadequate response." None of those posts "blame UnitedHealthcare—or Thompson—for his health issues." So we don't know about his personal healthcare experiences, but it is clear from the handwritten notes found in his backpack that he has a beef with our healthcare system.
Independent journalist Ken Klippenstein published those scribblings in their entirety, in which Mangione says, "the US has the #1 most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy." These companies have "simply gotten too powerful, and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allowed them to get away with it."
That argument has gained traction, but not in a thoughtful way. Instead, the social-media world has been at its ugliest, with myriad posts that make light of the incident. Many reactions were downright ghoulish and, quite frankly, make me fear for the future of the country.
Mangione was arrested at a McDonald's near Altoona, Pennsylvania, after a worker phoned in a tip. As Newsweek reported, police say that "officers and locals involved in the arrest have received threats since Mangione's arrest…Google removed a number of disparaging one-star reviews about the restaurant, many of which included mentions about 'rats' in the kitchen." Green jackets similar to the one Mangione wore have become an instant sales hit.
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) called the killing "outrageous" and "unacceptable," per HuffPost, and then offered this critique: "I think what the outpouring of anger at the health care industry tells us is that millions of people understand that health care is a human right and that you cannot have people in the insurance industry rejecting needed health care for people while they make billions of dollars in profit."
Leftists criticize the healthcare insurance system as they seek a single-payer or Medicare for All system. Yet the problems with American health care are complex and not easily pinned on one source (insurers!). Summarizing medical research, the Washington Monthly's Bill Scher concluded that the widening life expectancy gap between the United States and other developed nations may be caused by obesity, high suicide rates, illegal drug epidemics, and socioeconomic disparities.
Government is no panacea. Healthcare spending has increased in tandem with stepped-up government mandates and subsidies. Having experienced a health insurance quagmire involving my family, I'm well aware of people's legitimate frustration with the current system, its red tape, insurers who offer denials rather than providing needed coverage, and the stress of dealing with insurance absurdities in the midst of a troubling health crisis.
However, most of my experiences with our system have been laudable, as we've usually gained high-level care in a timely manner (check out wait times in countries with national health systems)—and then just get a bill at the end for a small portion of it. Prices are indeed inflated, which is the result of any third-party system where someone else pays the costs and when there's no conceivable way to shop around for the best prices. And it should go without saying that complex heart surgery or knee replacements are fundamentally costly procedures.
Figuring out how to improve healthcare services is a complicated topic fraught with inherent conundrums. For instance, the demand for health care will always be higher than the supply. The more successful the care, the longer we'll live—and the more of it we'll need as we get older. Profit-based systems are the ones that best promote life-saving innovations.
There are only two ways to parcel out goods and services that have a higher demand than supply: pricing or rationing. Government healthcare monopolies are notorious for rationing care and for leaving customers with far fewer alternatives or avenues to challenge those decisions.
"There is, in the U.K., a government agency that decides which treatments are worth covering, and for whom. It is an agency that has even decided, from the government's perspective, how much a life is worth in hard currency," Jonah Goldberg explained. He asked if we'd hear the same type of reactions "(i)f some punk kid stalked and shot the director of the VA, Medicare and Medicaid, or the U.K.'s National Health System." He doubts it, as do I.
We don't know anything conclusive at this point. But if you're justifying the killing of a healthcare CEO—or even having schadenfreude about it—then you ought to check out your health plan's mental-health coverage options and take advantage of them immediately.
This column was first published in The Orange County Register.
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Remember when the left media was trying gaslight everyone that right wing terrorism was a threat?
When, the last 8 years and still ongoing?
https://www.campusreform.org/article/hate-crime-hoax-post-election-racist-messages-rhodes-college-prove-fake-/27171
You could spend all day posting hoaxes.
https://nypost.com/2016/12/14/teen-made-up-story-about-anti-muslim-attack-on-subway/
I heard this Trump guy made up a story about an election being stolen.
Democrats did it first.
Good point. That makes it ok.
I don't know if it's a good point or not, but you seem to like it.
Whenever Team Trump does illegal, immoral, unethical and otherwise despicable things, it's always justified because the left started it by doing it first. All I'm doing is pointing that out.
This event has created new precedent for ok things. Because the left has celebrated this murder, it's now ok for Team Trump to celebrate murder.
Reminder. Sarc thinks going after federal bureaucracy for abuses in office of law is immoral.
What illegal things by the way?
Reminder. Jesse suffers from psychosis and refuses to take his meds. As a result he hears voices and believes they are real.
How many posts do you want of you calling any investigation of bad acts to be revenge?
How many posts do you want defending a Capitol officer for a blind shoot?
Jesse asked, "What illegal things by the way?", Sarckles.
Spit it out. What illegal things?
"What illegal things by the way?"
Threatening The Emperor On High? Prance around with signs saying "Hang Donald Trump" (or even "Hang Joe Biden"), and yell chants to the same affect, and see twat happens TO YE!!! OMG, ye are threatening to kill THE EMPEROR!!! Jack-booted thugs will be ALL over your pro-violence, insurrectionist ass!!!
Butt chant ye "Hang Mike Pence"... Just ONE step down from The Emperor Shitself... And suddenly, shit's OK!!! Go finger THAT shit out, please!!!
Broken autistic democrat. Lol.
Even given courts literally ruling about illegal election changes you persist. And that's the easiest to point out to you.
Trust government always - sarc
You'd do well as a maduro supporter too.
What else do the voices tell you?
Autistic. Lol.
Drunk and retarded. Not autistic, although you can say FAS baby too.
I say autistic because he latches on to a handful of phrases. If he hears a new phrase he will repeat it ad nauseum for a few weeks. It is autistic behavior.
I stand by my diagnosis.
The common behaviours and features of a child with FASD may include the following, but can vary from child to child:
Challenges can be decreased if parents/carers are able to recognise these characteristics and accept them as symptoms that are the result of damage to the brain by alcohol exposure in utero. These may include the following, but can vary from child to child:
- learning difficulties (don’t seem to be learning as well as other children)
- Cognitive processing deficits – thinking which is slowed (may only pick up some pieces of the information or instruction)
- impulsiveness (acting without thinking)
- disorganized and easily distracted
- Ability to repeat instructions, but inability to put them into action (talk the talk)
- Inability to predict outcomes or understand consequences (don’t learn from mistakes)
- Difficulty with social relationships (have trouble making and keeping friends)
- attention/hyperactivity (may have been diagnosed with ADHD)
- Inconsistent performance and memory (know or can do something one day but seem to forget it the next)
- developmental delays (brain development is younger than chronological age and they most likely will not reach developmental milestones on time).
- Difficulty with abstract thinking – mathematics, money, time
- Perseveration (getting stuck in a thought pattern or an action and find it difficult to move on)
- Explosive behaviour or running away (fight or flight response to their environment)
- Inappropriate sexual behaviour
If that's not Sarc to a tee I'll eat my hat.
While not true, there is a lest some evidence that gives it the appearance of. Not following election laws, lawfare against Trump (twice impeached), Would the party of get him out by any means resort to cheating after all other means failed? Yes! Does that mean they did. No.
I would call Trump wrong on that, but I wouldn't call it a hoax.
Did you just out yourself as a Steal Denier?
That's just stupid.
Does that mean they did. No.
You are denying the steal. You're saying the 2020 election was legitimate. You're siding with Democrats and the media. You might as well be a leftist.
Your reading comprehension level sucks.
He says it isn't a smoking gun but there are questions based on what is known.
Did you graduate 4th grade?
That's just stupid.
Yes, saying someone is a leftist because they deny the steal is indeed stupid. Yet the Trump defenders you defend do it all the time. Hmmmm....
That's just stupid.
So you think it's ok because they do it?
It's called mockery you nitwit.
Mockery is another word you seemingly don't understand.
"So you think it's ok because they do it?"
Self-awareness is not a Sarcasmic super-power.
You're standing with: The Democrats lied for four years about the condition of Biden. They covered up that the President is only occasionally competent at his job. They then did an internal coup to remove him and replace him with Kamala.
But they would not do election fraud? Seriously?
How drunk are you? Your rejoinders make zero sense.
"We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics." Joe Biden,
20 October, 2020.
I can't wait for you to tell all us illiterate peasants Biden's remark is "taken out of context."
https://reason.com/2019/04/25/anti-semitic-hate-crime-winnipeg-hoax/
https://www.reuters.com/article/world/us-israeli-teen-convicted-in-israel-for-bomb-threats-during-trumps-rise-idUSKBN1JO1JH/
Your point? Mangione is not left-wing. He is alt-centrist. He is the type that easily goes for Maga.
"Alt-centrist", that's a new one.
I don't know what to call them myself, but the establishment folks have become radical and extreme in their new orthodoxies lately. Listen to the invective coming from The View, or ABC, the Romney-McConnell-Cheney wing of the Republicans, or Disney lately. They are far more radicalized and extremist than those traditionally associated with right and left.
The old left and right aren't trying to censor the internet, start wars all over the globe, imprison their political opponents, or use the FBI as a secret police force, like the supposed "center" is.
Of course that isn't what "Heraclitus" is talking about. He's trying to pass the buck for the Dems. But it did bring up something I've noticed going on with the purported center.
Interesting point. I listen to NPR from time to time to see what mainstream news is like, but mostly tune out the old media stuff. If "centrist" means current establishment supporting, then I think you are probably right. That's where the danger is now. They feel threatened and will not give up their power without a fight.
Lol.
"My lived experience" is totally MAGA.
Maryland and I've League. Totally MAGA.
Your point? Mangione is not left-wing. He is alt-centrist. He is the type that easily goes for Maga.
See how left wingers invent whatever is necessary to blame the right? The jeffsarcs are expanding.
Expansion is also applicable to fatboy's waistline.
"Your point? Mangione is not left-wing. He is alt-centrist."
I think I've found our Act Blue Republicans.
WTF is "alt centist"?
really? right wing terrorism is alive and kicking against all people. you are comparing apples and oranges.
Can you provide an example of this right wing terrorism? I assume you are talking about in the US.
I didn't really see any comparison in his comment.
When 40% of the population thinks that murder is okay, as long as the victim is a greedy capitalist, is when you get communist revolutions that feature mass executions while the people celebrate.
By many of the same people who think Daniel Penny should have been convicted.
"When 40% of the population thinks that murder is okay,"
This is America, the nation with the world's highest rate of murder, and the public seems fine with it, and not eager to do anything to change it. 40% is woefully underestimating the reality.
"when you get communist revolutions "
You'll get your communist revolution when the public is on the verge of starvation. The murder of our favorite CEOs will only bring about more huffing and puffing like we see in this and other articles in the media.
You'll get your communist revolution when the public is on the verge of starvation.
Historical experience proves this assertion is backwards. In reality starvation comes after the communist revolution.
You might find a history of the Russian or French revolution interesting. I urge you to delve a little deeper.
That's stupid. People ignore things all the time. Doesn't mean they think everything that they don't spend all day raging about isn't a problem.
" People ignore things all the time. "
I wouldn't characterize the reaction to the killing of the CEO as ignoring it. It seems to have sparked an avalanche of critical commentary in social media, as well as all the huffing and puffing status quo apologetics in Reason and other pundits and politicians.
I mean the high murder rate, not a specific case of murder. The fact that most people "seem fine with it" isn't because no one thinks murder is bad (let alone "thinks murder is OK") and it would be preferable to have less. It's because most people correctly recognize that it doesn't affect them much at all and have other things to worry about that are more relevant to their lives.
" It's because most people correctly recognize that it doesn't affect them much at all and have other things to worry about that are more relevant to their lives."
You've pinpointed exactly the reason why the murder of the CEO has garnered so much attention, and why the murder of some anonymous schlub is accepted as a fact of life in America.
I think the unusualness of it is probably the bigger factor. And that the news media has decided to make it a major story. But the fact that the victim was the sort of person who usually doesn't have to worry about getting murdered on the street is a large factor as well.
You're omitting the biggest factor: that this was a politically driven assassination.
Most people don't understand what the political left is and so find this shocking. They found out they live in a country very different from the one they thought they lived in.
Yes, that is the main reason why it's big news. If he'd been murdered by a jealous lover or something, it would be much less interesting.
""This is America, the nation with the world's highest rate of murder,""
We are not even in the top 10.
"We are not even in the top 10."
Damning with faint praise.
We're not even the top 50, but mtrueman's lived experience is that we're the worst so you're wrong for denying it.
Apparently quibbling takes up a good deal of Super Scary's lived experience. You'll fit in well here.
Nah, it took me 4 seconds of Google because that sounded like a buck wild claim to make. You should have been more specific, like school shootings or something.
I ignored the rest of your post because I have the rare ability of pattern recognition and have read your posts before.
We have the highest murder rate among countries with low murder rates. Low murder rates are defined as lower than or equal to that in the US.
"You should have been more specific, like school shootings or something. "
School shootings? We ignore them too, unless we can uncover some especially lurid details about the shooter.
"I ignored the rest of your post because I have the rare ability of pattern recognition and have read your posts before."
Unless you've got something other than quibbling to offer, please ignore my posts entirely.
The socialists have never been particularly cagey about what their desires are regarding class enemies.
Nor have the rightists, those who hate, remember lynchings? remember Rosenbergs? Remember ruined careers? Klu Klux klan anyone? ding dongs killing special needs people? Really you need to police your backyard.
You just talked about southern democrats lol.
"Celebrating Brian Thompson's Murder Is Ghoulish"
Either Mtrueman or Maderation4Ever was defending this a couple of days ago.
What sort of behavior do we expect from ghouls?
These are the same people who will tell you, on the one hand, that 'no human is illegal', when it comes to unlimited, unvetted, illegal immigration.
While on the other hand, are publishing long-term plans about reducing the human population on the planet by 90%. Not to mention supporting abortion up to (and sometimes after) the moment of birth. And automatic euthanasia for people with depression or other treatable conditions.
Greenhut seems quite satisfied with the fascist (economically) "healthcare system" and that the only alternative is socialized government medicine.
Jonah Goldberg explained. He asked if we'd hear the same type of reactions "(i)f some punk kid stalked and shot the director of the VA, Medicare and Medicaid, or the U.K.'s National Health System." He doubts it, as do I.
The next step is asking why this is true. The answer is because our education system has spent the better part of 5 decades teaching our children that profit is inherently evil and therefore anyone associated with it is legitimate target. Getting the idiots out of our education system remains priority one.
This is true. Education is socialized, so it’s no surprise that it’s teaching about what a great thing socialism is. The institution is captured, and the results of that poor education is that they believe someone like Brian Thompson is the enemy instead of a just a man doing his job.
I honestly think we’re heading for something nasty because way too many people think this scumbag was justified in hunting down a man just for being rich and successful. If a jury acquits him or even hangs, which I can see as an extremely plausible outcome, it’s opening a very nasty can of worms. And you’re not making things better by making insurance executives all spend extensively on personal security details.
"hunting down a man just for being rich and successful"
Yup, no other motive. The victim was a saint doing God's work.
Well, he wasn't personally shooting people in the back and getting lauded for it, that's for sure.
Capitalism aside, this sort of thing has been cowardly, immoral, and unscrupulous in common law centuries.
Oh, okay. You know about something else Brian Thompson did? Him specifically? Tell me exactly what his crime is other than being rich. I’m all ears, scumbag.
He took a job at the wrong company.
He was operating under the conditions of the contracts signed and ACA requires.
How evil.
profit is inherently evil? generalization much? EXTREME profit, profit that reduces the care and lives of others is EVIL. smh.
They would be evil if they weren't making a profit and had to deny claims so they avoid going bankrupt. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You can never win with the 'everything should be free crowd' because they are too stupid to understand how anything actually works.
Propaganda:
? EXTREME profit, profit that reduces the care and lives of others is EVIL. smh.
Reality:
The industry's profit margin decreased modestly to 3.4% from 3.7%, while the combined ratio remained mostly unchanged at 96%.
The truth is that for this purpose "extreme profit" is any profit, or no profit, in an industry targeted by the left. Let's not pretend there's any rational thought involved.
Declining to provide care to extend a person's life isn't "reducing the care and lives of others". You are assuming that people are entitled to whatever healthcare they want. No one is going to provide these services if there is no profit in it. And what is "extreme"? Is a doctor making $200k a year who doesn't spend every waking moment doing everything he can to extend the lives of everyone he encounters making "extreme profit" at the expense of the care and lives of others? He could do more and only take the profit that he needs to survive.
Just for the record, vigilantes act when the government fails to act.
This was murder, not vigilantism.
Vigilantes would be shooting illegals as they cross the Rio Grande.
(Both shootings illegal, by the way)
Except no one is harmed by someone crossing the border. So "vigilantism" is the wrong word. I think the word you want is "lynching".
Crossing the border illegally is not a violent crime. Letting your H1b visa expire is not a violent crime. Shooting these people in the back is not vigilantism, it's a pogrom.
Lol.
Yeah. Taxpayers aren't harmed. Crime victims aren't harmed.
Have you ever talked to a border rancher to scream at them how they aren't harmed?
Brandybuck doesn't care about the law or about people being lynched or shot in the back. He cares that you know and are subject to his own perceived moral and intellectual superiority.
Otherwise, he wouldn't raise the non-sequitur of 'harm' in reference to crime and he certainly wouldn't invoke a political stance. Because there's a plain, good faith reading of LTBF's comment that opposes vigilantism with or without harm. But Brandy doesn't or can't see it like that and has to be clear that there is vigilantism against non-violence of which he approves and vigilantism against non-violence of which he doesn't.
Moreover, for all the veneration and vilification back and forth of Robin Hood, he didn't just show up and slit The Sheriff of Nottingham or King John's throat in the middle of the night.
If the director of the VA was assasinated we would get the same set of stories mirrored. The left would criticize the right for celebrating the murder and the right would have all kinds of articles about the cons of public healthcare.
this
Is bullshit.
Fixed it.
If the director of the VA was assasinated we would get the same set of stories mirrored.
Except of course this would not happen.
It's interesting we now have leftists criticizing the right based on their own fantasies but who still won't criticize the left for supporting an actual murder. The discrepancy shows the extreme lengths they'll go to while justifying their complete lack of principles.
>>same set of stories mirrored
cite?
Democrats here always justify their party with what they imagine their enemies would do. Why?
If it's after Jan 20th, the left would be throwing confetti in the air that someone in the Trump admin was shot and killed.
Cite?
'Vigilante murder of corporate bosses is not going to fix any of the problems with America's health care system.'
No, but it does expose the evil cunts in our society.
first we let them kill the criminals and they cheer. then we let them kill the babies and they cheer. then everyone's aghast when they cheer murder in the street.
edit: toss in they send our children to die and they cheer.
This is getting tiring. How much mileage can the media have about all these so-called supporters of Mangione? I have not seen any of these people in the wild but somehow I have seen dozens of articles hysterically pointing out how the left is celebrating this murder.
It's like Reason and the media are using AI to plan and write their stories. Can't offer an original angle? Maybe do some research on how often the right uses similar apologetic logic to defend murders they support? Look at Penny. Look at Israel. It's not hard.
We know government run healthcare is not all roses. We know that the insurance industry is not solely to blame. We have been having this conversation since 2008. Stop treating people like idiots.We also know that the current healthcare system is great if you are affluent. But it is still a Kakaesque experience everytime we engage with the system. The amount of confusion and layers of everything is mind boggling. Reason is right that it is impossible to shop around. The doctors and nurses have no idea how much anything costs. And if you are getting a procedure it is impossible to price it, even in theory, because it is impossible to know what additional procedures will be triggered. Get a colonoscopy and then look at your bill if they removed or did not remove a polyp. Imagine having to shopt for a colonoscopy. One place might be cheap but then the small print is that the price doubles if they spend 10 minutes removing a polyp. How does a rational human even begin to evaluate pricing like this? Unless it is your full time job, forget about it. It leaves a huge asymmetry that big medicine will always take advantage of. That is not efficient. And it leads to self-rationing.
So please just stop with this weak journalism. Go ahead and defend free market healthcare, but don't pretend peoiple are mindlessly supporting a murdrer. That's just cover for your own mindless support of your view.
Because you're ignorant, it isn't happening.
Videos at courthouse.
Has to be satire. There’s actual fucking examples in every story, and people like Elizabeth Warren and AIC aren’t exactly obscure individuals.
I have not seen any of these people in the wild but somehow I have seen dozens of articles hysterically pointing out how the left is celebrating this murder.
Note the fake evidence he has to rely on in his desperation. If you're walking down the street [i.e., in the wild] how do you expect to know someone's position on the murder? By contrast actual polls show material support for the murder. These are ignored in favor of his fantasy "evidence".
This is how propaganda works, especially the posturing.
Of course the price goes up if they remove a polyp. They use up single use sterile items they wouldn't use otherwise. They send the tissue by carrier to another company to categorize the tissue and write a report. You expect that for free? They could just charge everyone for those extra services, would that make you happy if everyone paid more?
I agree medical pricing is ridiculous, but it isn't for no reason all of the time.
""I have not seen any of these people in the wild""
I know several. A few of those had a problem that Trump wasn't killed. Has me shaking my head.
I'm a believer that the true character of an individual is seen not by how they treat their friends, but how they treat their enemies.
I work for a wing of the same company Brian Thompson did. Many of my more liberal colleagues have had personal interactions with people who are either celebrating or hand-waving away the murder. It is out there and not just on social media.
"so-called supporters"
Is this one of those "don't believe you lying eyes and ears" things? Cause you can easily find people praising this murderer. Getting tattoos of him, making thirst posts on social media - the whole shebang.
Leftists want the government to be in charge of everything. And the essence of government is force. Thus Leftists want to apply force to everything in order to get their way. This is the opposite the Non-Aggression Principle which holds that force may only be used in self-defense, and never for political means.
So to the Leftist the murder of a CEO is justified, because if government won't inflict the deadly force then Leftists must do it instead.
This is why Leftism is evil.
Not excusing the Right, because they are similar in many ways. But in this instance it is the philosophy of Leftism that is excusing first degree murder.
Man. What did sarc do to you to make you have a non shit both sides comment?
The philosophy of Trumpism is that if the left does something first, then it's ok for him and his defenders to do the same. That means it's now perfectly fine for Team Trump to celebrate murder. It's still despicable when the left does it, but if Trump or anyone who supports him does the same thing then it's ok because Democrats did it first.
That's the philosophy of Sarc trollism, which is part of the make-shit-up-as-you-go-along school of thought.
""That means it's now perfectly fine for Team Trump to celebrate murder. ""
Only if you believe your own bullshit.
Who on Team Trump is celebrating a murder?
Nobody, but Sarc loves flinging shit just to see what might stick.
Who on Team Trump is celebrating a murder?
I said it's now ok. I didn't say anyone had done so. Yet. That's Jesse-level stupid. My point is that when someone who Team Trump hates is murdered, then it will be perfectly fine to celebrate it. But it wouldn't have been ok just a couple weeks ago.
I said it's now ok. I didn't say anyone had done so. Yet. That's Jesse-level stupid.
jeffsarc priority one:
When someone openly supports murder the most important thing is re-directing hatred against people who have not supported murder.
While self-awareness is not a Sarcasmic super-power, rank hypocrisy is.
"Hang Mike Pence"! "Execute General Milley"!
Butt OMG, Leftist ("Snot Our Team") political violence? Now THAT shit is DEPLORABLE!!!!
Moose-Mammary-Necrophilia-Bahn-Farter-Fuhrer, rank hypocrisy IS Your PervFected Super-Slut Power!!!
You are a really stupid person. Lol.
"" I didn't say anyone had done so. Yet.""
So projection.
Rioting and destroying property are arguably worse than being glad someone's dead, yet it was perfectly fine when Trump supporters did it because the left did it first. So why is what I said so damn offensive? You guys have already justified worse by saying the left did it first.
>>Rioting and destroying property are arguably worse than being glad someone's dead
agreed to arguable.
Yes. You celebrated those rioters being shot. After spending a summer with Mike and Jeff outraged BLM nightly rioters were arrested.
Principles!
Your ire for J6 includes the arrest of 800 non violent protestors. For a 3 hour event.
My ire for BLM is night 100 of a summer of rage providing cover for 2B in damages and 26 murders.
Totes the same.
"My ire for BLM is night 100 of a summer of rage providing cover for 2B in damages and 26 murders."
Always interesting to make the comparison between the two events because by every measure you can possibly think of, the BLM riots were worse; cost more money, more people died, it lasted magnitudes longer. They are barely comparable, but it's the best option the left has to point and say "hey look, they were making a mess too!"
I still see damage from the Summer of Love in Philly and it's been years.
Grandmother's on J6 who were in a government building for 13 minutes got more jail time (hoem arrest included) than 2 liberal fire bombing liberal lawyers in NY.
Sarc thinks this is blind justice.
Amphibian People illegally mind-cuntrolled entire ARMIES of trumpanzees gone apeshit, PLUS The Donald Himself, to loudly call for political violence in the form of "Hang Mike Pence"!
Yet JesseBahnFarter-Fuhrer thinks this is blind justice, that NO Amphibian People were EVER even mildly QUESTIONED about this!!!
Nobody gives a fuck if some asshole yelled something during a protest.
The philosophy of Trumpism is that if the left does something first, then it's ok for him and his defenders to do the same. That means it's now perfectly fine for Team Trump to celebrate murder. It's still despicable when the left does it, but if Trump or anyone who supports him does the same thing then it's ok because Democrats did it first.
Compare this to the philosophy of the jeffsarcs which is that whenever left wingers do something stupid the appropriate action is to attack the right, then later accuse others of Whataboutism.
Q: What is the main difference?
A: One is real and sarc's is a fantasy.
Fundamentally sarc doesn't want equality under the eyes of the law. He wants preferences for the left. It is amazing.
" "I think what the outpouring of anger at the health care industry tells us is that millions of people understand that health care is a human right..."
Hey, Comrade Bernie.
Where in the US Constitution does it say that?
The constitution has nothing to do with what is and isn't a human right. It's not a human right because you can't have a right to stuff that isn't yours or to other people's labor.
Which is what the Constitution says. Try again!
I could have been clearer, I suppose. Something being in the constitution does not make it a human right. Something being absent from the constitution does not make it not a human right. The Constitution codifies a number of basic human rights. But it is not exhaustive (as is stated in the 10th amendment points out) or exclusively about human rights.
That's all I meant.
Agreed! The Constitution specifies several things that the Federal Government is forever forbidden from doing to people, together with a blanket grandfather clause for all the other things people have a right to. An amendment to the Constitution extended those protections to the governments of the several States as well. Left unspecified was the definition of rights - natural, or god-given or my preferred definition - and the concept has been twisted by opportunistic socialists to mean that anything they want to claim as a human right must be provided to everyone whether they want it or can afford to buy it for themselves or not.
Obviously health care is not a 'right'. But one means of creating something like a socialized medical system is completely constitutional. Via the interstate compact clause.
I suspect most states would want some way of providing care for the elderly, indigent, disabled, etc. Even in NH or other places where there are enough 'libertarians' for the 'let them die in the street' option to have political traction.
But an interstate compact approach is completely different from the way we currently do anything.
My preferred definition of a right in this context is: something everyone must have in order to justify participating in society over trying to go it alone. This is a kind of "natural" right - something that is neither granted nor stolen but, rather, the starting condition or premise of the social compact. The non-aggression pact is the social contract that makes liberty possible. In order to maintain a social structure based on liberty, almost every participant must recognize that their own personal liberty can only be exercised by respecting the equal rights of everyone else. The few people who refuse to respect the equal rights of others are labeled criminals, lose their rights within that society and are expelled. There are a number of flaws in that system that some might think would justify criminal behavior, but ultimately it's a totally self-consistent way to organize society. So each person might have an equal right to try to get medical treatment - either by purchasing it or from charity - but not have a right to require other people to provide it to them against their will.
My preferred definition of 'right' in this case is that we are a society that can afford to provide access to the basic infrastructure of medical care to everyone. It is imo little different than transportation infrastructure or education infrastructure. Not that we do a good job at understanding what infrastructure really is.
Our hospitals were, overwhelmingly, built by charitable donations (by people who received massive tax deductions for that), and municipalities/state unis. Non-profit hospitals (roughly 2/3 of all hospitals in the US with an additional 20% or so directly govt owned) receive $30+ billion in tax exemptions every year. It's ridiculous to believe that the costs of those should be entirely determined by a rate of return set by for-profit hospitals (who have generally closed far more hospitals than they have ever built). They were built mostly by taxes and their operating costs and ongoing return should be funded by taxes - for the purpose of keeping capital costs as low as possible to those who use that infrastructure. It is the latter purpose that our system in the US sucks at.
None of that is a negative right - but so what.
I refuse to accept your premise that HOW we got to our current social state is relevant to what we should do next as a society or what the best way to try to organize society might be. Just because, for example, everyone was forced by government to pay for the highway system doesn't mean we cannot change how we pay for highways in the future or that having utilized a bad system in the past constrains us by forcing us to continue to use a bad system in the future.
"... because the American public has allowed them to get away with it."
For the record, this is a true statement, even taken out of context. All of the problems with medical care in America over the last sixty years are directly attributable to the American public DEMANDING healthcare insurance. What do you think would happen to the food supply in America if people demanded free food at someone else's expense - i.e. first dollar coverage for all food? All of a sudden it just looks silly when you take the concept of free healthcare and move it over to free clothing, free fuel, free transportation, free housing and free entertainment. It does make sense to purchase inexpensive catastrophic health insurance to cover rare, unanticipated expensive life-saving medical treatment instead of refusing to work for a living at a job unless the employer pays for all of your routine healthcare without limitations.
Government healthcare monopolies are notorious for rationing care and for leaving customers with far fewer alternatives or avenues to challenge those decisions.
You are completely full of shit and transparently have no fucking clue what you are talking about other than just spouting an ideology.
The ONLY country that has succeeded (mostly) in creating a health care monopoly via a socialized medical system is Canada. That's fucking it. And I suspect even the intention there is due entirely to the US and Canada being direct neighbors where the US is totally dominant and therefore a socialized system in Canada having to take that into account in its design. Everywhere else there are very active PRIVATE markets for supplemental or other insurance that lets people bypass whatever rationing occurs in the socialized system.
And those markets are much freer markets than exist in the US precisely because the socialized system does allow for a rational decision by customers to not participate in that market. That is the definition of a FREE MARKET. The freedom to NOT participate in that market. It is a very rational choice for someone to wait in line or otherwise go along with public rationing. Far more so, than for someone to have to forego ALL medical access.
The reality is that it is the rationing in those socialized systems that allows for the MASSIVE reduction in costs - roughly 50% lower costs. Those lower costs are precisely how the young and healthy benefit and thus remain in a medical system to still subsidize the older/sicker. And how the older/sicker who are willing to deal with rationing benefit.
Only the older/sicker/richer who are willing to pay to bypass care benefit from a private market - but they also benefit in a socialized system because their tax costs PLUS premium costs are still lower than what it costs in the US. Because those other countries do allow a true free market to come into being.
“The freedom to NOT participate in that market.”
Really? Does that include the freedom to not pay into the government graft that supports it?
“Hey man, you’re like, free to buy private insurance. But we’re still taking your money to pay for other people who can’t.”
The capital costs of building infrastructure like hospitals is paid for differently than the marginal costs of providing an operating room for a few hours for surgery
The capital costs of building a road are paid for differently than the costs of moving stuff on that road
You didn't make it clear that all of the other socialist countries TRIED to construct single-payer government monopolies but had the sense to recognize that they had failed and had to back off. Canada is highly likely to have to back off as well when their citizens force them to realize their failure.
No they didn't. There have been four main models of health care:
The Beveridge Model - Invented by the guy who created the UK's NHS. It was always intended to be a core health system not a comprehensive one. In theory that core function can be a monopoly because the purpose is to provide universal access to an essentially govt provided and tax-financed medical system. In practice, it has never been a monopoly because in all cases, there was a pre-existing medical system and the intention was never to eliminate that. UK, Spain, Scandinavia, and some others have this sort of system. As does the VA system.
Bismarck Model - Created in countries where insurance/financing networks tend to own the provisioning of care. In this case the regulations are more on insurance/etc where they cannot cherry pick the risk pool or price for profit or where govt kind of serves more as a reinsurer than a provider. They also require mandates on individuals for coverage. These are prevalent in continental Europe, Japan, Latin America, etc.
National Health Model - the true 'single payer' model combines both the Beveridge and Bismarck and govt may (or may not) try to control both the financing and the provisioning of care. Canada is the most obvious example though Korea, Taiwan (and Medicare really) also mostly fit here.
Out-of-pocket model - most of the rest of the world has this - as does the 15% or so of the US that doesn't have insurance. If you are rich, you see a doctor when sick. If not, you don't. This is apparently the wet dream of 'libertarians'
"The freedom to NOT participate in that market."
That is NOT the definition of a free market. There is no such thing as a free market, even theoretically. The definition of "free market" in any kind of real-world society is when official central authority does not interfere in the voluntary exchanges of goods and services between and among individuals in any way. The government's only legitimate function in that context is to enforce criminal laws, not to regulate transactions by trying to specify acceptable trades and sanctioning or punishing them, or taxing them.
There is no such thing as what you say a free market in any kind of a real world society is. Govt is ALWAYS involved in a market. Period. It is simply stupid pedogogical insanity to even make an ideological case otherwise. Lack of involvement by govt is not involved in any definition of 'free market' except by libertarians (mostly 'Austrian school') who are completely ok with ideas of free markets that do not really exist anywhere.
Here on planet Earth - a 'free market' means:
1. free entry and free exit. ie - what I said
2. competition determines prices
3. reasonable parity of power between providers and consumers so that competition can truly determine prices.
4. the means of production is owned privately so that those owners can decide to compete (or exit the market).
You used his name six times in this article.
You used his victim's twice.
Why? Why would you help contribute to the scumbag's infamy, and diminish the tragedy of his victim?
You say that celebrating it is ghoulish, but then you give three times as much attention to the killer, by name, than you do the innocent man he (allegedly) gunned down. And then you springboard it into a hot take on a completely unrelated subject.
That is: you spent the latter half of the article talking exclusively about the health care vs the health insurance systems. But that has nothing to do with one man (allegedly) casually murdering another in cold blood. The two are completely unrelated.
The callous murder of a health insurance CEO at the hands of an indifferent sociopath with an axe to grind is not a reason to talk about the merits or criticisms of health care or health insurance issues.
By pretending it is, you are engaging in the very ghoulism you're (allegedly) decrying.
Disagree. This is an article about the ghoulish public RESPONSE to the murder which is most certainly about the murderer's motive and how it fits in - or can be wedged into - the commenters' agenda. It is very similar to how socialists pounce upon every murder in order to push their anti-gun narrative, regardless of the logical fit.
Disagree all you want, you're missing the point:
Figuring out how to improve healthcare services is a complicated topic fraught with inherent conundrums.
One man murdering another has nothing to do with that. Nothing.
Make the post about healthcare. Or make the post about the murder. Conflating them when they have nothing to do with each other is precisely the ghoulish thing he's arguing against. It aims to rationalize the murder as somehow "valuable" because at least it "started a conversation," as the wokies like to put it.
We don't need to murder someone to have a conversation about healthcare. There is no reason whatsoever for associating the two.
Scumbag cold-blooded murderer is a scumbag cold-blooded murderer, and justice should be served upon him. That is the first, last, and only thing that needs to be said about [name redacted]. He is not worthy - at all - of any further consideration.
CEO victim was wronged in the worst way possible. There is no justification whatsoever for what was done to him by a homicidal maniac. Outside of eulogy and a celebration of his life, tragically and unjustly cut short, that is the first, last, and only thing that needs to be said about the last Brian Thompson.
Notice how neither of these two things have anything to do with America's health care system.
I posted an answer on Quora on this.
https://www.quora.com/Did-anyone-else-react-to-the-United-Healthcare-CEOs-execution-with-serves-him-right-Or-am-I-the-only-one-who-sees-those-people-CEOs-of-health-care-as-the-monsters-they-are/answer/Z-Crazy-4
Do we REALLY want to go there?
Because if we're dragged there, I dont see an exit strategy.
"Figuring out how to improve healthcare services is a complicated topic fraught with inherent conundrums."
No it isn't, get government out of healthcare and implement a laissez faire free market radical capitalist system and all our problems will be solved.
What about price controls?
OK, if the solution is increase supply, bring on the AI AutoDocs. If there is one area where AI could shine it would be in the heavily documented health care profession. Have one real doctor supervising the outputs of 100 AI AutoDocs. I have insurance and I can't get in to see a human doctor anyway.
Most of what primary care physicians do could have been replaced by an app years ago. Cutting edge AI isn't even necessary.
I'm reminded of the play Assassins, which stars all the people who tried to kill US Presidents. In one of the final songs, the narrator talks to them and mentions to all how pointless their actions were. Even the ones who succeeded didn't achieve anything.
Assassination is incredibly ineffective at anything aside from starting a war.