Prominent Progressives Struggle To Condemn Murder Without Defending the Murderer
Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez condemned unprovoked violence but added a load-bearing "but," while Michael Moore went even further.

Earlier this month, a gunman shot and killed UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Days later, police apprehended the shooter, identified as 26-year-old Luigi Mangione.
Contrary to what internet memes would suggest, Mangione's actions are indefensible. There is no justification for killing another human being unless Thompson somehow posed an immediate threat to Mangione's life or safety—which is unlikely, since he was shot in the back.
So why, then, is it so difficult for prominent progressives to condemn the murder without also expressing support for the killer's motive?
In a manifesto, Mangione said health insurance companies are "parasites" who "have simply gotten too powerful, and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allwed [sic] them to get away with it."
"Violence is never the answer," Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) told HuffPost, "but people can be pushed only so far." She deemed Thompson's killing a "warning to everyone in the health care system…that if you push people hard enough," they will "start to take matters into their own hands in ways that will ultimately be a threat to everyone." ("Violence is never the answer. Period," Warren later clarified. "I should have been much clearer that there is never a justification for murder.")
"This is not to say that an act of violence is justified," Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D–N.Y.) told CBS News' Jaala Brown, "but I think for anyone who is confused or shocked or appalled, they need to understand that people interpret and feel and experience denied claims as an act of violence against them."
Neither Warren nor Ocasio-Cortez felt the need to condemn a brazen act of violence without adding a load-bearing "but," pivoting to a qualified defense of premeditated murder as a response to frustration with the health insurance industry.
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) also called the killing "outrageous" and "unacceptable" before noting that the "outpouring of anger at the health care industry" signifies that "millions of people understand that health care is a human right and that you cannot have people in the insurance industry rejecting needed health care for people while they make billions of dollars in profit."
But when it comes to half-hearted condemnations of violence, filmmaker Michael Moore takes the cake.
The Oscar-winning documentarian's 2007 film Sicko criticized the American health care industry, advocated a single-payer system like in Canada or Europe, and even touted the health care system in Cuba. Mangione's manifesto seemed to cite Moore for having "illuminated the corruption and greed" of American health insurers.
Moore penned a lengthy Substack post over the weekend, winkingly titled "A Manifesto Against For-Profit Health Insurance Companies," in which he addressed whether he would condemn Mangione's act of violence.
"Throughout my adult life, I have repeatedly stated that I'm a pacifist," Moore writes. But after Thompson's murder, "there was an immediate OUTPOURING of anger toward the health insurance industry. Some people have stepped forward to condemn this anger. I am not one of them."
Eliding the question of whether it's appropriate to murder an apparently random executive as a synecdoche of the entire health insurance industry, Moore merely says the anger felt by Mangione and others is "1000% justified" and "I'm not going to tamp it down or ask people to shut up. I want to pour gasoline on that anger."
"Yes, I condemn murder, and that's why I condemn America's broken, vile, rapacious, bloodthirsty, unethical, immoral health care industry," Moore writes—notably, the closest he comes to saying, "shooting an unsuspecting person in the back is wrong."
Instead, he writes, "these insurance corporations and their executives have more blood on their hands than a thousand 9/11 terrorists."
True, health insurance companies make easy villains. But they're not the robber barons that progressives often make them out to be. Much has been made of the fact that in 2023, UnitedHealthcare made $16 billion in profit, with Thompson getting $10.2 million in salary and bonuses, but relatively little attention to the fact that UnitedHealthcare's profit margin that year was just 6.0 percent—down slightly from the year before as a result of higher expenses.
Early reporting suggested Mangione may have been driven to violence after becoming disillusioned with the health insurance industry while receiving care for a severe back injury. He allegedly wrote "delay," "deny," and "depose" on shell casings found at the scene—words associated with insurance companies' claim denials.
"UnitedHealthcare approves and pays about 90% of medical claims upon submission," the insurer's parent company said in a statement. "Importantly, of those that require further review, around one-half of one percent are due to medical or clinical reasons." Thompson, as CEO, likely had no direct impact on individual decisions about care. And besides, "the killer and his parents were not UnitedHealthcare members," the company added.
It's perfectly acceptable, even downright reasonable, to oppose the American health care system in some form or fashion. But it's completely beyond the pale to commit murder for any reason whatsoever. Mangione's brazen act of violence left Thompson's wife a widow and orphaned his two children, which only the purest cynic could justify.
Why do so many prominent progressives have trouble conveying that point, without hedging or even outright justifying the murder?
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"millions of people understand that health care is a human right"
There's a popular bumper sticker here that says "There is no Farmland without Farmers" - which applies to almost anything the socialists might want to cram into their list of humans rights. For example, "There is no Healthcare without Doctors." The Brits have a "right" to healthcare but they are just now starting to suspect that it's an empty right if there are not enough doctors to go around. But by all means try to have your appendix cut out by a surgeon with a gun pointed at his head - or the kind of surgeon you get when "Medical School is a human right." Go ahead - I double-dog dare you!
Exactly. If I have a right to healthcare, then I have a right to force a doctor to administer care to me...whether he wants to or not.
This of course betrays the cynical games that these little marxian zealots play. If CEOs should be shot in the back, orphaning their children, for taking 6 cents of every healthcare dollar, why aren't they demanding that the doctors be shot in the back of the head for taking their cut. Why aren't they demanding that that hospital administrators be shot in the back of the head?
They are not doing it because they know they cannot demonize a doctor the same as they demonize some suit on wall street. It is sick and twisted.
Right, that's why the left has spent decades demonizing "profit" and Wall St. Now they have scapegoats. Jews used to fill this role, and in some contexts still do.
80% of American Jews are on the left and disproportionately represented in influential and leadership roles.
Is there something in that suggesting they aren't scapegoats? Or is your point not related to mine in any way?
I'll circle back to you after I consult my AIPAC handler.
IT is interesting that the left goes after capitalism except when it come to universities that are raking in far more money than most realize. not one question about how they charge and they even want to support teh university system even more so.
Of course, the Marxists always do support an elite leach class, that just happens to be them and their fellow inner circle leaders.
The real question is this: If democrats are Marxists that advocate for murdering those who disagree with their authoritarian control or who they find to be icky, why are we allowing them to roam free at all? Are they not an omnipresent ongoing threat to all our lives? And should that threat not be dealt with decisively?
They should demonize doctors.
States should set prices by law, and the penalty for charging one penny over or more should be death by execution, with the death sentence immune from federal judicial review!
Rights are a fiction - useful and convenient, often enough, but still a fiction.
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
FOAD, asshole.
You’re an avowed atheist, aren’t you?
Ahhh, the cry of the authoritarian shitweasel. Tis a rare sight in these parts these last many years.
"You have no rights" .George Carlin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9-R8T1SuG4
health care is a human right
Nobody understands this better than Canadians.
Apparently so is euthanasia.
Healthcare is not a "right". It is a collection of products and services that have to be created by other people's labor. It does not exist without other people, therfore it is subject to scarcity. Sanders does not like and resents the concept of scarcity (at least, with regards to private enterprise providing goids and services) despite it being an unavoidable aspect of human existence, and like all socialists, thinks government can magic away the problem of scarcity rather than make it worse..
Exactly. As if all we need to resolve this issue is a Five Year Plan.
"millions of people understand that health care is a human right"
I always ask proggies where in the US Constitution it says that, and I usually get a dirty look or a blank stare.
Proggies are the dumbest (and most violent) people in America today.
"Proggies are the dumbest (and most violent) people in America today."
They DO have SOME competition these days!!! I don't want to make excuses for them, but SOME people (including a past POTUS and POTUS-to-be) are providing piss-poor and shit-poor excuses (so-called "leader-shit") for them!
"Hang MikePence" is OK butt "Hang or shoot UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson" is SNOT OK? Please clarify which one is better than the other, and WHY? TWAT is SNOT true about the following statement: "Calls for political violence are calls for political violence, regardless of who makes these calls, and for twat reason"?
Mike Pence - not hanged, hanging mike not an expressed agenda of the right.
CEO Thompson - was shot dead, and his murder justified by progressives.
You're bothered by "Hang Mike Pence", but not "From River to the Sea", "ACAB", and two assassination attempt on Trump? Hypocrite.
No one cares about J6. It was not an insurrection. Get on with your pathetic life.
>It was not an insurrection.
Want to know one of my conspiracy theories? The term "Insurrection" was attached, specifically, because it is the word used in the fourteenth amendment. It was an attempt to disqualify Trump from running again.
If that is true, then conspiracists might consider the possibility that the instigators, the rabble rousers, the folks yelling to storm the Bastille when the crowd was just telling them to shut the fuck up were there because it was planned to make it "insurrection" rather than just an unruly mob.
The word "insurrection" was not chosen randomly. It was very obviously a talking point, repeated by every mainstream media source beholden to the Ds. And it could easily have been an organic thing, where some savvy propagandist working for the DNC took the opportunity to use such emotionally charged language. But any doubt as to the series of events, the very obvious star chamber committee dragged out for two years to make it last through the midterms, and four years of hearing folks like JS and Bohm and the 50 centers here repeating the same talking point uncritically make skeptical people wonder whether it was planned ahead of time.
+ Don't forget C.H.A.Z.
The Self-Projection the leftards do is UN-believable.
"...hanging mike not an expressed agenda of the right."
Say WHAT?!?!?
“Hang Mike Pence”!!! Dear Leader agrees!!!
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-defends-jan-6-rioters-hang-mike-pence-chant-newly-n1283798
Trump defends Jan. 6 rioters’ ‘hang Mike Pence’ chant in new audio
The audio captured part of an interview ABC News’ Jonathan Karl conducted with Trump at Mar-a-Lago in March for Karl’s upcoming book.
PS, Mike Pence’s dangerous words and ideas were that votes, voters, established democratic norms and processes, peaceful transfers of power, and the USA Constitution should actually be RESPECTED!!! Now just IMAGINE THAT!!! This was HERESY to True Trumpaloos!!!
This is SNOT "leadership" (a moral-ethical example from above), from Dear Leader, this is LEADERSHIT!!! If'n ye want the approval of The Donald (and perhaps some "equal access" to His Queen Spermy Daniels; good fucking luck!!!); this is lowest-cummon-denominator BLESSINGS upon political violence, so long ass shit is for OUR Team!)
"Asked if Trump was worried about Vice President Mike Pence’s safety during the Jan. 6 riot, Trump said, “I thought he was well-protected, and I had heard that he was in good shape.”
Karl then reminded Trump that some of his supporters involved in the violent attack were calling for Pence to be killed.
“Well, the people were very angry,” Trump said.
“They said, ‘hang Mike Pence,’” Karl told Trump.
“It’s common sense, Jon. It’s common sense that you’re supposed to protect,” Trump said. “How can you, if you know a vote is fraudulent, right, how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to Congress?”
"Hang Mike Pence" is hyperbole, you disingenuous little twit. None of those protesters intended to hang Mike Pence. None of them were convicted of premeditated murder. No one in the right endorsed such action. Trump at worst was defending violent rhetoric.
CEO Thompson WAS shot. That was actual political violence. The left is calling for more murder of CEOs. Do you understand the difference between violent language and ACTUAL violence?
What exactly is your point? We can't condemn political violence on the other side because someone on our side said "Hang Mike Pence"? OK, then we can defend "Hang Mike Pence" since the left calls for the murder of CEOs and Donald Trump.
The hypocrite is YOU. There were two assassination attempts on Trump. You fixating endlessly on "Hang Mike Pence" only makes you look like a retard.
"OK, then we can defend "Hang Mike Pence" since the left calls for the murder of CEOs and Donald Trump."
Strictly twataboutism, which does NOT move us all towards truth or justice or ANYTHING positive! WHEN will you be a BIG boy or girl, and admit that "Yes, sometimes MY Tribe does BAD things, and we need to work on that, in truth and in humility"?
Butt, whatabout that them thar whatabouts? Twatabout Hillary? Whatabout OJ Simpson?
How many brain cells does it take to run a socio-political simulation on the following:
Judge and Jury: “Murderer, we find you guilty of murder! 20 years in the hoosegow for YOU! Now OFF with ye!”
Murderer: “But OJ Simpson got off for murder, why not me? We’re all equal, and need to be treated likewise-equal!”
Judge and Jury: “Oh, yes, sure, we forgot about that! You’re free to go! Have a good life, and try not to murder too many MORE people, please! Goodbye!”
Now WHERE does this line of thinking and acting lead to? Think REALLY-REALLY HARD now, please! What ABOUT OJ Simpson, now? Can we make progress towards peace & justice in this fashion?
(Ass for me, I think we should have PUT THE SQUEEZE on OJ!)
PS, the two assassination attempts on Trump were made by common low-life scum... They were NOT made (or verbally supported by) a POTUS (such as Biden) or a Senator or some such "important" person who should be a shining moral-ethical example for the rest of us. Butt here we had an ex-POTUS (Trump) supporting calls for political violence! And "Team R" can't call Him on shit, and He will NOT take back His Precious words, or apologize for them!!! "Team R" AND their LeaderShit support political violence, which is BELOW low!!!
Leftists are always the murderers.
He’s not bothered by “Hang Mike Pence” either, it’s just his favorite cudgel.
If sore-in-the-cunt cuntsorevaturds do NOT like my (and that of many others) harping on their advocacy for political violence, then they MIGHT want to consider NOT advocating political violence!
He is not even bothered by the pipe bomb planted either that ,morning or the night before!
WHO isn't bothered by the pipe bomb, Dear Leader or Mike Pence? And TWAT pipe bomb? The one that blew away Your PervFected, infected, and neglected so-called "brain", and ANY moral-ethical sense of revulsion towards advocating political violence such ass "Hang Mike Pence"?
Are you talking about the "pipe bomb" that was planted by the FBI?
Oh and the more than two dozen FBI agents planted within the protestors.
Who is Ray Epps?
Hey SQRLSY, now defend the school shooters. They're just defending their right not to be bullied or forced to school or something, right?
The school shooters were "merely" listening to Dear Leader, who advocates violence! Maybe SOME evil idiots (maybe even YOU!) could LEARN from the fates of school shooters, and STOP listening to Dear Leader, to the voices and vices in your head, and to the Evil One! You could at least give it a try!
(You could ALSO think about the pain and suffering that YOUR violence inflicts on OTHER people, regardless of whether or not Dear Leader has blessed said violence... Butt yes, I know, thinking about OTHER people is a HUGE ask, of Already-PervFected People.)
Now Mockamodo, you Servant and Serpent of the Evil One, defend Your PervFect Worshit of the Evil One!
They normally point to the general welfare clause they don't understand.
Yes, we know, JesseBahnFarter-Fuhrer, the general welfare clause REQUIRES us ALL to PAY AND PAY AND PAY OUT OF OUR ASSES (till we bleed, despite HUGE gobs of Vaseline) for Your Precious Dreams of bringing Mainland China to their knees, by TAXING THE SHIT out of Americans!!!!
The clause that doesn't exist??
Because it's the Taxing Clause for the United States government?
Pretty sure their "don't understanding" is actually a deceitful indoctrination to void the US Constitution and "fill-in self-created blanks" like they do by quoting the pre-amble and pretending they can just fill-in the rest however they chose.
Progs see the law as a list of suggestions that don’t really apply to them if they become inconvenient. This is universally the overall response I get whenever I corner one of them on something illegal their elite masters are doing. My aunt does this. Like when I correctly pointed out that Obama had no constitutional authority to shut down the coal industry in West Virginia. Then she got very angry when I pulled the constitution up in my tablet and invited her to show me the passage that allows the executive to do such a a thing. She said that didn’t matter because ‘people are dying!’.
...and their solution premise is a complete joke.
‘people are dying!’ ...so pointing Gov 'Guns' at them will save them?
I'm not a rocket scientist but unless a 'Guns' are used in self defense against an aggressive 'Gun' the whole delusion that 'Guns' will save anyone is flat-out retarded (i.e. Leftarded delusions). They seem to have a glaring disassociated mental disease about what 'government' actually is and believe Aggressive 'Guns' against the 'icky' people will save them. Thus is the biggest most horrid use of government throughout all of human history.
A right doesn't imply something will be paid for you. That's hard for some to understand.
Anything that comes with a cost attached isn't a "right".
Nobody can have an absolute right to anything that has to be provided by the labor of another.
Your right to free speech doesn't even obligate anyone else to listen, so long as you're not punished by the State for the content of what you're saying.
You can have a right to grow/forage/hunt your own food, but not a right to be fed (which in turn obligates someone else to produce and prepare food for your consumption.
^THIS +1000000000000000....
Rights always HAVE to be 'inherent' (self-supplying) else they're really 'entitlements' at someone else's expense.
So guns are free?
Allowing people who want them to get them is free. Nobody I've ever seen has argued that 2A means that everyone is entitled to be provided with any number of guns (except for one drugged-out anarcho-commie who threatened to kick my teeth in when I said I wouldn't give him the money to by an AR-15).
Nice try at the strawman, though.
The idea that "access" means having something provided free of cost is a leftist idea which, similar to "bodily autonomy" applies almost exclusively only to anything with some connection to the female reproductive organs.
There is no such thing as a positive right
Why bother making "medical school a human right" ? The principle of "equity" dictates that at some point everyone who wants to should get a chance to remove an appendix, with or without the "privelege" of such education (or the multiple years of training which follow those years of schooling). In an "equitable" world, the only shortage of surgeons comes from not handing scalpels to enough people...
here we go again with politicians ranting about health insurance when they are in charge of making the rules the insurers work by
The Brits have a "right" to healthcare but they are just now starting to suspect that it's an empty right if there are not enough doctors to go around.
There aren't enough health care providers to go around here either. More so among lower-tier professionals than M.D.s, though, I think. It probably also matters whether you are talking about primary care vs. specialists. One of the reasons why health care costs increase faster than overall inflation is the lack of sufficient primary care doctors and nurses and other medically trained support staff. Combine that with all of the hospital and provider network mergers and acquisitions decreasing competition, and it is no wonder that costs rise fast. (My city's metro area is around 2 million people, but large hospitals that can do a wide range of procedures are all part of two big networks. There's one hospital that started as mostly an ER before expanding I know of that is part of a different national corporation. But it doesn't do everything.) I only say this as a reply to that statement to add context, not as a whole argument for or against anything.
The problems with health care and health care costs go well beyond private vs. public arguments or insurance or how to get access to those with low income or in poverty. People pick one aspect of the larger problem to focus on when they have a political axe to grind. It doesn't help solve anything to do that.
"relatively little attention to the fact that UnitedHealthcare's profit margin that year was just 6.0 percent"
This little nugget is almost ALWAYS ignored by the useful idiots. Let's note that some 24% of that goes right back to the government in taxes.
Further these profit margins are capped by ACA, meaning that the way Insurance Companies increase their profits is by...increasing their payouts, so that they can increase their premiums. Let's note that Obama's promise that ACA would "bend the cost curve down" was as bullshit as "you can keep your doctor".
And let us not forget that with legislatively mandated margins, it is the premium payers who ultimately bare the cost of claims. Even if we reduced that profit margin down to zero, the cost of insurance would still go up because people would still make claims. And so every person screaming "CEOs should be killed if they deny claims", should instead be screaming "CEOs should be killed if they don't raise my premiums enough to cover all these additional claims."
They of course won't do it, because they are crazed little marxian brainwash victims.
Boiled down to its essentials, failure to follow the specifications of a contract between the insured and the insurer is - a CONTRACT dispute. It is not any kind of criminal infraction. Since any party to a contract can violate the contract at any time, only a fool would risk his life and health on compliance with the contract by the other party or parties! If you need lifesaving medical treatment and can't pay for it or find a way to finance it over time then you are a fool. Ultimately the problem here is first-dollar coverage for all health care. The only sensible way to finance health care in America is to pay as you go for routine and inexpensive acute testing and treatment while buying inexpensive catastrophic healthcare insurance coverage as you go. Insurers are far less likely to deny or fail to timely approve lifesaving emergency treatments than they are to deny routine, expensive but unnecessary tests and unproven treatments. But life is uncertain and if it matters to you, don't depend on contractors.
^This, routine pay-go & catastrophic insurance only.
don't depend on contractors.
True enough but good luck buying and installing central air conditioning without us.
The problem for people who want to do this right is that they are dealing with market forces that are far too warped and distorted by government regulations.
We were on the cusp of finding something that worked with HSAs, and those mother fuckers killed HSAs and High Deductible Plans with ACA. Now they are just a (great) way to defer taxes on more income than you are allowed to put in your 401k, but the insurance policies do not drive any of the price sensitivity that we need to get a grip on healthcare.
Profit is multi year for a company. Q profitable year doesn't offset 5 years of losses. So the companies have you maximize the profit in years they may take a loss in order to stay overall profitable. There is no cap on losses, even though ACA had a fund to pay out losses Congress keep ls extending.
The primary method of making profits for an insurance company isn't about trying to keep the net cash flow between premiums and claims on the "positive" side for the company in a given year.
These companies make their real money by investing/trading/collecting interest on the money involved (the "float") while it's sitting on their books. The net in/out flow clearly has some impact to the bottom line, but the idea that insurers' profits are "driving up costs" for health care overall is left-populist rhetoric use by people who can't do math to convince others who can't do math; the same reason why they're convinced that the "system is rigged", they don't understand enough concepts to see where their inflationary policies actually increase the inequality that they think they're fighting.
This is why healthcare savings accounts are a good way to go.
I have two hopes related to this.
* Michael Moore has to be hospitalized for being so fat and can't use his wealth to get a better outcome.
* Someone realizes who is really responsible for the terrible health care industry and scares the living piss out of politicians enough that they get the government entirely out of health care, except possibly making all health care payments deductible.
Both are about as likely as me being elected Supreme Vader The Second.
#1. is doable, your excellency Supreme Vader the 2nd. If just throwing money at a health problem worked, well we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Someone realizes who is really responsible for the terrible health care industry
Congratulations. The lucky person is you. Here's the answer: FDR. Wage freezes during World War 2 required employers to come up with other ways to compensate their employees. They discovered they could buy health insurance on behalf of their employees and offer it as a benefit that didn't count as "wages".
That was not the original insertion of medical care in the tax code. The first - in 1939 I think - was to allow companies to deduct medical expenses from corporate taxes. That was entirely done at the behest of the same donor class types who also owned companies and had previously used the tax code to make charitable contributions to build hospitals. Those hospitals were increasingly empty as muni hospitals were what were filled with patients. So they wanted to get their tax deduction via the other pocket -and use the tax code to funnel patients away from muni hospitals.
The change to make medical benefits nontaxable to employees is not what drove employer decisions. That change was for unions.
You don't know what you're posting about, which is common for JFucked.
Why do so many prominent progressives have trouble conveying that point, without hedging or even outright justifying the murder?
Left wingers supported violence during BLM. Academia hired terrorists Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn, Kathy Buidon, and Angela Davis. We see them encouraging it again here. It's not like their support for violence is in any way equivocal.
The only restraint on their support is political, not moral. So they try to disguise their support and do as much as they can underground.
Both left-wingers and right-wingers support violence. The disagreements are over who should be the victims of it.
Too true.
Both left-wingers and right-wingers support violence.
There are left wingers and right wingers that support violence, in large groups everything exists everywhere. But there is nowhere near similar levels among them. As my examples show support for violence is far more prevalent on the left. We see it far more often and by people far more powerful. BLM riots went on for a year, essentially until they got what they wanted in the election. J6 happened once and never again because the overwhelming majority of the right rejected the violence. Similar protests were scheduled across the country for inauguration day and no one showed up. By comparison left wing activists have been trying to stoke violence and regain the fervor of the 60s and 70s for decades whether it's BLM, Ferguson, or on campuses.
People who play both sides-ism are trying to hide this difference.
Let's not get too carried away about the right's rejection of Jan. 6. After all, the Republicans just finished sending Trump back to the White House.
Even on these boards, the usual suspects are constantly griping about the Jan. 6 prosecutions, pretending Ashley Babbit wasn't part of a mob that was breaking into the Capitol, and generally denying that anyone did anything wrong that day (except for the Capitol police who were apparently at once too permissive and too bloodthirsty).
It's exactly as bad as the left's apology for the BLM riots, and for exactly the same reason – they sympathize with the rioters' goals.
Ahh. So if you think the law shouldn't be manipulated to target political opponents, especially the non violent ones, it means you are the same as BLM committing 2 dozen murders and burning buildings down.
Do you guys fucking hear yourselves?
Please. Tell us how being against 20 year charges against non violent protestors on J6 is wrong.
I'll wait.
BTW. Nice attempt at correlating a summer of assaults, murders, and arson to a one day protest where the only 2 people killed were protestors. Totes equivalent.
I think you’ll be waiting for a long time to get him to back up his bullshit.
Heedless is obviously a sock for a regular.
Let's not get too carried away about the right's rejection of Jan. 6. After all, the Republicans just finished sending Trump back to the White House.
Remind me, how many riots were there after Jan 6? We're talking about rejecting violence.
the usual suspects are constantly griping about the Jan. 6 prosecutions,
Legitimately. Compare the effort made to prosecute only those specifically guilty of extreme violence - not even vandalism - at BLM riots with the desire to prosecute everyone from J6. There's a very careful bifurcation which excludes people who are guilty of abetting by helping those who commit violence escape detection. But when we discuss J6 there's no analogous effort to split the group by what they actually did.
pretending Ashley Babbit wasn't part of a mob that was breaking into the Capitol,
"Make them live up to their own standards".
It's exactly as bad as the left's apology for the BLM riots, and for exactly the same reason – they sympathize with the rioters' goals.
Wrong. One happened for 3 hours in one location and was never repeated. The other happened nightly for 6 months and is repeated with various justification every couple of years.
I've said for years in response to leftists decrying Trump that he is adopting their tactics (this pertains to more than winking at violence). Yet in all this time they complained only about his using these tactics while still defending the left using them. The took over government and academia and used that control to extract hundreds of millions of dollars to fund their political machine. Only when Trump has returned our institutions to neutral should his further action be criticized. Even then it would not be "as bad as the left" unless he is able to corrupt it to the right as bad as it is now corrupted to the left (which I don't ever anticipate because the left will be fighting the whole way whereas the right stupidly abandoned our institutions without a fight).
For Al, the Democrat’s screaming about J6, there was very little actual violence from J6 protesters. They didn’t murder burn and rape for months, like the democrats did in the name of St, George Floyd.
Or that several months before, in downtown D.C. where stores were looted and burned and a church near the White House was set ablaze.
It was a mostly peaceful but fiery protest.
All in the name of St. George of Fentanyl.
It's exactly as bad as the left's apology for the BLM riots, and for exactly the same reason – they sympathize with the rioters' goals.
Wrong. One happened for 3 hours in one location and was never repeated. The other happened nightly for 6 months and is repeated with various justification every couple of years.
Are we supposed to forget about Rittenhouse and Daniel Perry? Anybody that tried to oppose the riots was attacked and if they defended themselves, they were charged with murder. How many people were prosecuted for the murders in the CHAZ again?
Plus nobody here has ever claimed that Babbitt was not part of a mob breaking into the capitol. Everyone that gives a shit has made the simple point that she was completely defenseless when she was shot in the throat by yet another scared bitch of a police officer. Yet her death is completely justifiable to the Marxist cheerleaders on the left.
Rittenhouse was found not guilty on all counts as for Penny, because of a hung jury, the charges have been dropped.
The fall out from that trial is going to be violent.
Eat shit and die, asshole.
Let’s compare: J6ers carried no weapons beyond signs, broke some windows, and roughed up some cops. BLM/antifa gunned down a dozen cops, burnt dozens of cars and buildings, took over whole city blocks, looted hundreds of stores, hurt thousands of citizens, and intimidated hundreds of thousands of others.
Leftists are violent thugs. Rightists are over enthusiastic protesters.
So then THIS is why Our Supreme Cummander in Chief (former and now soon-to-be) has Cummanded us to "Hang Mike Pence" and "Execute General Milley", and so forth?
Can we have some LEADERSHIP instead of LEADERSHIT one of these days, please? Twat ever happened to our "leaders" being good examples unto us peons, anyway?
Way to excuse an assassination shrike.
Half of Democrats are okay with this murder. Please find me the opposing polls for a murder will you?
That's like saying both armed robbers and armed victims both support violence, and by implication have equal moral standing.
Of course you leftist retards do like to prosecute victims who shoot robbers, don't you?
No, right leaning g peole have to support violence to effectively deal with all you violent leftists. We aren’t the ones out there shooting up schools, churches, movie theaters, or executing CEO’s in the street. That’s you guys.
We need to be violent sometimes, to stop your kind. Like Daniel Penny stopping that violent psycho who was going to stab a little old lady in the subway. Penny’s violence was to stop a murdering Democrat from murdering innocent people. Same with Rittenhouse (Penny and Rittenhouse both being American heroes).
In 2020 and the years leading up to it, the push to claim that "words are violence" and "silence is violence" were pretty much exclusively to the left.
Then during the "summer of love" in 2020, we got the update that in the context of a riot happening near a certain category of protest, assaults (on cops and civilians), looting, and even arson were just "the language of the unheard". Then in Jan 2021, the left suddenly found a new regard for the sanctity of "blue lives" and decided that assaulting a capitol PD officer amounted to sedition/treason, as did trespassing and picking up smaller pieces of furniture and other brick-a-brac from Congressional Offices. Not even mentioning the idea that Officers who killed themselves 5+ days later were referred to as having been murdered in the course of the riot (ideological thinkers often get into some strange knots regarding ideas of causality, though)
They believe that force/ violence is necessary and justifiable in the name of their cause. They have VI Lenin as their example.
The shooting was murder and wrong. It's that simple.
Half of your party disagrees.
And most of those people believe it’s ok to beat and kill Jews. Some recently announced they are planning more such violence.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2024/12/17/pro-palestinian-group-nyc-vows-support-armed-resistance-u-s-israel/
“At the event, a speaker donning a keffiyeh issued sharp proclamations, including: “Stop pointing fingers at each other. Our fingers, our pens, our rifles will be pointed at the U.S. government, the Zionist entity, and nobody else.””
Time to bring back McCarthyism.
Pro-Palestine Millenials and Zoomers talking about violent attacks against the US is just one more instance of those generations thinking they "invented" something that was big in the 1970s-80s.
Not all health-insurance providers are for-profit corporations; according to Wikipedia, several state Blue Cross Blue Shield operations are organized as nonprofits, while others are mutual insurance companies, owned by their policyholders. Such providers, untainted by the desire for obscene profits, should handily outcompete for-profit companies, since they'd be able to provide the same or better benefits, for lower premiums.
Do we find this to be the case? Are BCBS policyholders in states like Arizona and Michigan, to name two of the nonprofits, delighted with the service that they get from their providers; and do they pay premiums significantly lower than those paid in comparable states where the only providers are greedy corporations?
I suspect not, but I'm willing to be convinced, if Warren, Moore, et al., would be willing to provide the evidence...
Many executives at "nonprofits" rake in high salaries.
That’s what the anti insurance company complaint is really about - envy of highly paid executives. The salaries are not part of profits; they are expenses.
Pure class envy.
I don't donate to any of the so called "non profits". I quite after reading the CEO of United Way raked in nearly a million dollars in salary.
F*** 'em. Besides now, most of the cash they rake in goes to illegal aliens.
Many Non-profit execs divide up any remaining money into "bonuses" at the end of the year for themselves in order to keep the operation from accidentally making money.
>>Progressives Struggle To Condemn Murder Without Defending the Murderer
literally the Ghoul stance on abortion why is there surprise?
I think that the real issue here is that there is no justification for murder. However, on a related subject, I think it is understandable that some people might be upset with insurance companies "death panels." While resources are not infinite, there is reason to believe that sometimes the decisions of those death panels might seem inappropriate to many.
^^ you'd think they'd program the thats out of the bots
It’s weird that you think that if bots were posting that they would be concerned that someone might read it like that.
Much better that government run the death panels, eh comrade? All for the greater good.
Seems more like the idea from Catch-22 when Yosarian decides that anyone trying to get him killed is the "enemy" regardless of which uniform they're wearing.
When there's someone deciding who does or doesn't get treatment for financial reasons (not that that's actually what's happening in all of these cases, but they're all interpreted that way in the media), whether they're paid by the private or public sector becomes a distinction with out a difference to the rational thinker.
In the ideological world, all the fans of "single payer" will point to private insurance denying some experimental treatment that Docs in the UK or Canada wouldn't be allowed to tell patients even exists and decide that it's a flaw that's "unique" to the "for-profit" system. Just like they'll look at a news story about the idea of using state-supplied euthanasia as a treatment for "conditions" including mental illness and povery for patients in their 20s and 30s and simply see "fnord fnord fnord" repeating in the text of the article.
Proggies have a hard time explaining their love of violence.
But their love of violence comes from their Marxist readings.
In essence, proggies love violence...as long as the violence isn't against them.
Twilight Zone should be a 100-level mandatory class
‘The Obsolete Man’ should be required viewing. Although most democrats see that society as their utopia.
Here is Rod Ser'ing’s opening narration:
“You walk into this room at your own risk, because it leads to the future, not a future that will be but one that might be. This is not a new world, it is simply an extension of what began in the old one. It has patterned itself after every dictator who has ever planted the ripping imprint of a boot on the pages of history since the beginning of time. It has refinements, technological advances, and a more sophisticated approach to the destruction of human freedom. But like every one of the super-states that preceded it, it has one iron rule: logic is an enemy and truth is a menace. This is Mr. Romney Wordsworth, in his last forty-eight hours on Earth. He's a citizen of the State but will soon have to be eliminated, because he's built out of flesh and because he has a mind. Mr. Romney Wordsworth, who will draw his last breaths in The Twilight Zone.”
exactly.
Part of it is that the left doesn't view people as individuals but as parts in a collective. They don't see people as human.
Where were these assholes when the Branch Covidians were executing people by shoving ventilators down their throats? Oh that's right, demanding that toddlers get experimental drugs injected into their tiny arms. I hate the medical system as much as the next guy. But I can never hate these assholes enough.
I have learned to loath and despise the medical community.
We would be better of with Shamans and medicine men.
They were criticizing trump for his "excessive focus on Vaccine development, and calling for him to nationalize ever-increasing portions of the private sector, largely to mass-produce more sub-standard ventilators even faster (apparently so that ICU patients could be killed in greater numbers by a "treatment" which never actually showed any signs of being effective).
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/politics/trump-pfizer-vaccine/index.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/28/use-defense-production-act-more-than-just-ventilators/
There is no difference between the nutty far left and the nutty far right. Donald Trump has called for at least eight innocent Americans to be killed, with no "but".
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Fuck off and die, steaming pile of lefty shit.
There's plenty of difference, the main difference being that the political violence comes almost exclusively from the left.
There were two assassination attempts on Trump and one assassination of a CEO. Shinzo Abe was assassinated a few years ago. Salman Rushdie was nearly killed onstage.
We're not retards like Joe Biden. Take your gaslighting elsewhere.
What's so surprising? These are people who cheered on the burning of my former city, ironically including an affordable housing high-rise under construction, while denying it was violent, despite the outright terror of one elderly resident and the sad tale of my former neighbor, the Somali man who lost his furniture store then was levied a fee by our illustrious Minneapolis City Council for a containment fence.
https://www.axios.com/2024/12/17/united-healthcare-ceo-killing-poll
41% find this acceptable. And the leftists here are justifying that by talking about J6. Lol.
Leftists everywhere have spent the last 35 months pretending that J6 justifies everything that they've advocated for or instigated, or flipped from opposing to supporting (and vice-versa) going back to at least 2015.
Without the "Russiagate" hoax, Mueller investigation/first impeachment, and Covid lockdowns all having occured first, it's probably impossible for whatever speeches and gatherings might have happened to ever get that out of control.
Is there any chance that the "stop the steal" rhetoric from trump gets much traction without 3+ years of half the Dem party calling the 2016 election "illegitimate" and Congress spending about 50% of their energy for 2 years on coming up with a pretext for the first impeachment? The people who really bought in on the claims that 2020 was being "stolen" had just watched 3 years of the opposing party trying to undo 2016 "by any means necessary", and were tuned in to the media "silos" which didn't put an embargo on the reports about how the Steele Dossier had been literally fabricated by the HRC campaign (who had a staffer giving stories to Danchenko to give to Steele for the "dossier" they were paying for Steele to assemble, at least according to Danchenko's testimony at one point) before being used as the sole basis for everything from "Crossfire Hurricane" to the Mueller investigation. Yet somehow the left will tell you that all of that deception, obfuscation, and abuse of governmental powers was actually justified "because Jan 6th" as if they'd known during the 2016 campaign that it was going to happen five years into the future...
"...millions of people understand that health care is a human right..."
Millions of people are lying in that case.
Be fair. Retards can't know they are lying.
These leftists want to go back to the Jim Crow era or Weimar Germany, where vigilantes got to decide who was worthy of being murdered in cold blood. As long as it's an approved group of vigilantes making the decision, right?
I'm not going to engage the vigilante murderers on their own terms by discussing whether criminal suspects, politicians, corporate executives, etc., who get murdered are really as bad as the killers claim. Instead, I'm going to challenge the moral credentials of the killers to be deciding this stuff - basically, their moral right to be murderers of any description.
But I'll note this much: If we have members of Congress, with a wink and a nudge, talking about the justifiable anger of murderers, is there any other group of people other than corporate executives whose activities might excite rage in would-be vigilantes?
"Oh, no, I wouldn't contextualize and 'understand the anger' of anyone who wants to kill *me*!"
OK, then, you glass-house dwellers, shut up about understanding the legitimate rage of killers.
Stuff that genie right back into the bottle, if such a thing is possible.
The fallout from January 6 showed us what happens if our Nobility is made to feel even MARGINALLY uncomfortable or threatened: People jailed pre-trial for years and then hit with massive sentences, endless hearings in Congress, and the media trying to act like this was a disaster on the scale of 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.
If a Democratic politician gets targeted for assassination, there will likely be calls from Elizabeth Warren and AOC to assign Delta Force teams to each and every person who caucuses with the Democracts on an indefinite basis to act as body guards.
Ultimately, the Nobility always takes pains to make to ensure that everybody can differentiate between the Noble Class and the Merchant Class, no matter how wealthy any individual merchant might be.
Murder is wrong but but but… justifiable.
This is the true face of Warren and her tribe.
Health insurance is not health care. The little prince is a hero because he pushed through an act that was a tax collected for insurance corporations who pretended they'd be bankrupted if they had to insure everyone. Deny, delay, depose, or whatever - it's a cynical business model that brings billions of profit while the general health care for the citizens is steadily degrading. Is it unfair this particular executive was targeted? Yes, of course it was. Fairness has nothing to do with it any more than such is the point of health insurance. The institution of American healthcare is just one of almost every institution that's become a corrupted profit-seeking scam. They're defended by idiots of both parties as well, libertarians scolds claiming it's capitalism.
Bullshit.
Capitalism is agnostic. It's not capitalism - it's character.
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
t's a cynical business model that brings billions of profit while the general health care for the citizens is steadily degrading
16B profit at 6%. That comes to 251B in expenses (the vast majority being paid claims) while collecting 267B in premiums. What is so cynical about providing coverage for 251B in health care?
I had United Healthcare last year. Never had anything denied. Because I don't expect my insurance to pay for my quality of life needs.
Health care is a human right? And all those other desirable accommodations too, like food, shelter, energy, etc.?
Let's use the deserted island test. If we put you in isolation, how will shouting about your rights work out? And if we add another person, tell us about your retarded morality that requires that person to support you.
Let's just go all the way over the edge here.
As of this minute, we all have a 'right' to a libertarian web site with actual libertarian viewpoints.
You certainly have the right to go create one.
Nobody is entitled to simply have one available for them to read daily. They might have the option, if there's someone out there putting in the work/resources to create and host such content, but nobody is obligated to post the exact content that you happen to want to see on any given day.
If the second person is obligated to provide all of the things the first one is "entitled" to receive, then who's providing for the "rights" of the second person?
If neither of them knows anything about how to fish, forage, hunt, or even how to create a fire to distill water, then how would the Marxist "from each according to abilities" decide which one actually owes the other one the tools to survive?
"Progressives" and other proto-Marxists would claim that all are obligated to contribute to the "greater good" (although the claim that they're also at some level fundamentally entitled to receive what they need could be taken as erasure of that obligation at a fundamental level). Collectivist societies have seemed to work in some cases where the communities remain small, and there's some force at least applying pressure on everyone to contribute. (Bernie Sanders, supposedly was asked to leave at least one commune in the 1970s because he spent too much time blathering about socialist theory and not enough carrying his weight among the actual community) In the case of groups like the Amish, and Scandinavian cultures it's a strong "work ethinc" (something that many leftists in the US who want to "emulate Scandanaiva" reject out of hand), there's probably something similar in a Kibbutz or in any remaining "communes" around Europe or North America. I've personally suspected that there's also a factor where it really only works when the group size is kept down to a point where it's possible that "everyone knows everyone", because when one person is slacking (or even merely injured for a short time) in that environment they'll see first-hand where others have to work that much harder to cover; it falls apart at a national level becuase the ones choosing to become a "burden on the system" can isolate themselves from those who are carrying their weight.
" If we put you in isolation, how will shouting about your rights work out? And if we add another person, tell us about your retarded morality that requires that person to support you."
The first person, by virtue of the fact that s/he is first, owns the otherwise deserted island. Any additional people will be obligated to pay rent, which may take the form of providing food, shelter or anything else the owner sees fit to demand.
Ghouls. Every one of them.
I digressed - I've no respect for the assassin. But neither for the target. I'm interested in the reformation of the American health delivery institution. It's been broken and corrupted by the health insurance model. The price inflation is always greater than the general economic pressure.
Get the government out of it and start using insurance as insurance and not a pre-payment plan.
Making the insurance coverage more comprehensive, as opposed to the older-style "major medical" which just covered what was needed in severe conditions (when there's frequently not time to "shop around" or even get a second opinion) and left the "routine" care components between the doctors and the patients might have been the first "small step" in that progression, but the increasing mandates about what has to be covered created a further split between the actual pricing and the consumers (further distorting markets), and ACA/Obamacare added a quantum leap into that calculus by extending that separation into the insurance markets using "subsidies" which basically transfer the cost of price-gouging and other shady tactics directly to government agencies who aren't spending their own money or personally using anything they're buying.
"single payer" also means single provider (how do you get a second opinion if every doctor is mandated to use the same "MIL-SPEC" diagnostic flow-chart?), and ultimately just takes the disconnection of cost from consumption and wraps it around every part of the system. At some point, that means the one payer/provider either needs to have infinite resources, or has to start putting limits on what is or isn't deemed to be "necessary", such as in Canada, where all the inpatient care you "need" is free of charge, but the availability of remedies for conditions that it's possible to "live with" is limited, and for a very long time prescription meds weren't covered unless administered inside the clinic. Wait times for treatments like eye surgery or joint replacements were stretching out for months 20-30 years ago, and now wait times for consults with certain kinds specialists can exceed 6-10 months depending on the situation.
While the US left continues to call for making our system "more like theirs", the role of private clinics and insurers is increasing in the UK, and almost all Canadians have private insurance (something like 60% through their jobs) to cover care which the "single payer" manuals consider to be "unnecessary" or for which they'd prefer to not wait as long for treatment, and the UK NHS is hopelessly understaffed in many key areas (something which adovates ironically say is "just done for cost savings, and wouldn't happen here" when their main premise remains that we'll still realize their lower costs without engaging in the same kinds of reduction measures...
Face it. These are all scumbags. Hitler thought he was a great guy, the friend of the people. So did Mao. So do a lot of people who are scum.
Ther is no changing them. There is only protecting ourselves from them.
https://tinyurl.com/689RSMRLA December 16, 2024, CityWatch, Yes, Violence Is the Answer!, by Richard Lee Abrams
The Declaration of Independence says:
"That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, ...."
The Declaration was written to support a violent revolution. How can anyone claim that the government is protecting our inalienable rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, when it passed laws which enable a few billionaires to kill off so many of us?
BTW, I have been involved in health care insurance since the late 1960's and the United HealthCare is the worst. Luigi chose Thompson for the specific reason that he was the head of the most murderous health insurers, who was also under investigation for criminal inside trading.
I someone shoots a gun into a passing bus and kills someone on the bus that it malice aforethought. They do not have to know their victim's identity. Thompson did not have to know the names of his victims, but he knew that his actions were killing them. Because United HealthCare has issued an insurance policy, Thompson had a affirmative duty to protect, and not kill, the insureds.
I think Luigi may plead Defense of Others. He did not know whose lives he could save, but hopefully thousands would be spared because other CEO's would stop killing their insureds for fun and profit. Rather than caling for refopm ASAP, NY Governor calls for a special CEO NYPD hotline line -- not the ones who all other New Yorkers have to use. Hochul has adopted the same philosophy that CEO use to kill us -- special treatment for the wealthy murders.
"Luigi chose Thompson for the specific reason that he was the head of the most murderous health insurers, who was also under investigation for criminal inside trading."
"The courts are too slow!" /every lyncher ever
So many issues with that opinion piece I don’t even know where to start.
Holy shit is that mind numbingly stupid.
There final lie to close out the year is that there was some wave of anger at the healthcare industry. Healthcare was something like 4th or 5th place in the most important issue for voters. It barely made any national conversation. The election was almost entirely about the economy, broken border, crime, and Joe Biden.
The leftard crew would have you believe Joe Biden was sharp as a tack and his economy was an unprecedented success. Our 4th of July and Thanksgiving cost was lower than ever! So they ignored every issue that actually mattered to voters, then made up a mandate because one loon shot a healthcare CEO.
We warned these fools about ACA a decade ago. Remember when "death spiral" and "death panels" were popular political buzzwords? Yes, it turns out forcing insurers to admit more risky patients and cancel more basic plans did not somehow lead to reduction in price or expanded coverage.
The blood is on THEIR hands. When I ask leftards why we can't negotiate peace with Putin, they'll either say "You can't trust Putin" or "Putin will invade other countries". What, we could trust Iran? Is that why Obama made bunch of treaties with them? So that pointless war rages on as men in their prime are cut down. Wars are (D)ifferent when the left runs it.
"I condemn America's broken, vile, rapacious, bloodthirsty, unethical, immoral health care industry," Michael Moore.
Wait until Michael Moore finds out about how socialist government health care actually works. Maybe he can move to Canada and be encouraged to change his lifestyle of life until he gets sick (which with his fat ass is highly probably) and he can get a government sanctioned suicide kit. Christ on a stick.
Canada or the UK, both of them have broken health systems.
People like Moore do not care if government provided healthcare is effective or not. They only care that a private business is not profiting off of it. They will worship the government service even as it does horrible things to deal with scarcity problem that still exists.
They worship the party. They no longer worship the government when they are not in charge.
In Canada, with every ten health care visits, you get a free euthanasia.
There is no motive in the normal sense.
That shooter is just plain old batshit crazy.
On the other hand, how would the two 'ladies' feel if the shooter had done a proper root cause analysis and determined the issues in the current 'health care system' all stem from federal interference, and targeted accordingly?
What then?
Insurrection?
"issues in the current 'health care system' all stem from federal interference"
^THAT.....
Leftards Self-Project at Large.
I thought all the [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s] fixed the 'unfair' healthcare practices so how can it be United-healthcare is so 'unfairly' rich?
Maybe Leftards are just so-stupid to think they aren't the VERY CAUSE of this 'unfair' riches even when every evidence under the sun points to that they ARE THE CAUSE. Health Insurance companies popped up in the Top 1% EXACTLY after Obamacare was passed. Think about it [WE] 'democratic' gangsters with 'Guns'. Your 'Guns' did nothing but STEAL from working taxpayers and funneled that money into monopolized markets. You Leftards are down right dumb as sh*t.
So why, then, is it so difficult for prominent progressives to condemn the murder without also expressing support for the killer's motive?
Your answer is in the question you asked.
millions of people understand that health care is a human right
Yea, and millions of people "understood" that the universe was geocentric once upon a time. Kinda like how millions of people "understand" that tiny humans in utero aren't actually tiny humans in utero.
Millions of people can be - and often are - wrong, Bernie.
Instead, he writes, "these insurance corporations and their executives have more blood on their hands than a thousand 9/11 terrorists."
Claptrap, Fat Mike. I have never once seen an insurance company or their executives kill an American. I've seen terrorists kill Americans. Never seen a healthcare executive do so.
What the hell are you talking about.
Oh, was it this?
"words associated with insurance companies' claim denials."
Was that what you're trying to equate to terrorism?
Tell me you don't know how insurance works, without telling me you don't know how insurance works.
Let's make it perfectly clear for any of you mouthbreathers eager to reply: Health care is NOT a right. Insurance is a business of risk management. They do NOT guarantee some kind of "right to health care" - which is what every lying progressive puke in America is hoping to fool you with.
And if you're really that worked up about "delay," "deny," and "depose" - then maybe you should take a minute to actually read your policy before crying foul that it's not a magic money dispenser promising six, seven, eight figures for the pittance you (or your employer) pays into it every month.
If you do not understand this very basic point, then please take a very sharp knife and cut the tongue out of your mouth, because you deserve NO words here.
How's it you want to force Women to provide the "life assurance" needed for your 'tiny human cells' but insist Health care is NOT a right?
...and sometimes people literally contradict themselves.
Is one responsible for the consequences of their actions?
No, seriously - answer that question: yes or no.
Are you personally responsible for that which you cause? Yes or no?
Health care providers did not cause you to exist. Health insurers did not cause you to exist. They owe you nothing but contractually-agreed to terms. A mother, however, created her child. She caused him to exist. Even if unwillingly, that child exists because of her. And his father.
Are you saying she has no responsibility for her creation? Is the same true for the father? Or is that just a disposable thing completely as we reject personal responsibility in whole?
They're not my "tiny human cells". They're his/hers mother's and father's. Are they not exclusively responsible for them and their care? And if not, whose responsibility do you think they are?
In literally any other consideration, they'd be criminally charged for neglecting that responsibility. Why should in utero be any different?
Problem is ... You think it is *YOURS* & Gov-Guns responsibility NOT theirs. You're literally lobbying to BAN their ability to take responsibility of their own bodily functions. FORCING them to do what you want isn't allowing them any self 'responsibility' in the matter what-so-ever. It is making it YOUR responsibility and destroying Individual Rights to one's own body.
What Individual Right can possibly survive when ones own body isn't of their own 'right'? You can be free but your body can't?
And nothing anyone says will change your mind because your mind is rooted in religious bigotry on the subject.
If you cannot support ?baby? freedom (i.e. fetal ejection)
UR supporting Gov-Gun FORCED reproduction.
You didn't answer the question.
Your questions are illegitimate because they are nothing but leading the witness and the answer to all of them is it's NOT YOUR responsibility so BUTT-OUT and mind your own F'En business.
If health care is a right, why is it not enumerated in the Bill of Rights?
It isn't; neither is Gov-Gun FORCED reproduction.
Annnndddd in Other news that some might find a bit amusing, ...former Cook County State's Attorney Kim Foxx is no longer authorized to practice law as she has failed to keep up with mandatory continuing education requirements.!!!
HAw,haw, haw. Maybe she can get a job as a barista or check out at a dollar store. LOL.
Chicago just felt a wee bit safer with her out of the way.
If one murder is justifiable due to actions a person may disaprove of then that means those justifying it can also be targets by others hurt from their actions
Everybody jumps to this position of Healthcare is or isn't a right, which isn't even a key point. People are PAYING for healthcare coverage and being denied by insurance companies to save a buck ... hence the question "then what am I paying for ? " And if I am paying for something and you intentionally keep it from me, then you are robbing me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w99cEq4fAaU
No Senator Sanders, healthcare is NOT a right, it is a commodity.
Rights cost nothing other than that cost involved involved with insuring that they are honored; life, liberty, property earned or lawfully given or bought, freedom of movement, freedom of association, self-defense, contract. None of these cost anyone anything other than when someone tries to violate them and we come to the common defense of the aggrieved party.
But health services and materials are consumed, and have a finite cost to produce. Healthcare is NOT a right.
杀鸡儆猴
Kill the rooster to frighten the monkey.
According to an old folktale, a street entertainer earned a lot of money with his dancing monkey. One day, when the monkey refused to dance, the entertainer killed a live chicken in front of the monkey and then the monkey resumed dancing.
Criminal or crazy, it doesn't matter... hang him. We shoot mad dogs, don't we?..... paraphrased from "Starship Troopers" (Heinlein) [I'm too tired to dig up my copy and find the exact quote.]
.... the philosophical book, not the lame-assed movie.
The book is great.
I didn't hate the movie. 🙂
OK, I didn't hate the movie either, but it should have had the disclaimer "loosely inspired by....".
I was sort of surprised that (Mrs.) Ginny Heinlein allowed the project to proceed.
"but I think for anyone who is confused or shocked or appalled, they need to understand that people interpret and feel and experience denied claims as an act of violence against them."
These people are just petulant children crying when they don't get what they want. Denying coverage you aren't entitled to isn't violence, just like property rights an any other mechanism of free trade. You are not entitled to the fruits of others' labor.
"You are not entitled to the fruits of others' labor."
Isn't that the problem? The concept of insurance is all about pooling risk and funds. If you're not entitled to the fruits of other's labors, then what's the point? A sock full of cash under your mattress would be more useful. An insurance executive who doesn't realize this is liable to get himself shot or something.
An insurance program that doesn't control for cost and gives you whatever you think you need is called charity.
The fruits of others' labor that I refer to is the expectation of zero claim denials. We all know that depending on your experience with the medical system, insurers have been billed for unnecessary expenses. They have to act in the best interest of the group as a whole, which sometimes means non-desired outcomes for certain individuals. I don't work in the industry so speculation is inappropriate, but I can imagine that there are certain regulations and compliance concerns that limit the ability of the insurer to take any favorable action that may be seen as arbitrary.
"The fruits of others' labor that I refer to is the expectation of zero claim denials. "
The CEO was not shot because of an expectation of zero claim denials. The company was targeted because it led the industry in claim denials, more than any other insurance company. There rate of claim denial has apparently rise 10 times the number it was a decade ago. The company denied about a third of the claims, twice as much as the industry average.
"They have to act in the best interest of the group as a whole"
The executives act in the best interest of the stock holders. The customers are there to be squeezed, hence the incentive is to deny claims and not pay out.
The politicians, the insurers and the media have no incentive to put an end to this gravy train. Until the shooting, health insurance executives even posted their pictures online. It takes a murder to put the issue on the front burner, much to the dismay of Reason and other hypocrites moaning about the injustice of it all.
The company was targeted because it led the industry in claim denials, more than any other insurance company. There rate of claim denial has apparently rise 10 times the number it was a decade ago. The company denied about a third of the claims, twice as much as the industry average.
Do you know why?
Why? Because until a few days ago CEOs never dreamed their actions would lead to unwelcome consequences. They knew they enjoyed complete impunity and the support of politicians, the media, and the Reason editors and commentariat.
+1 ^
No, I was asking why they denied the claims.
Here's what I post to progressives who have been praising the murder - it pretty much shuts them up...
A while back there was a socialist group (NSDAP) that was pretty anti-bankers. They came into power and started killing off many of the bankers and (as scapegoats for their depressive economy) the primary race of people that constituted the bankers in the area at that time. So, it was considered ok to kill off the bankers and such and was supported by communities who simply couldn't fathom that they weren't pure of being.
"(NSDAP) that was pretty anti-bankers."
Rubbish. The Nazis were perhaps unique in the West for their efforts to privatize Germany's banks, delivering what were public assets during the Weimar period into private hands. It's actually a typical fascist impulse, and was followed by Chile under Pinochet and the UK under Thatcher.
...because 'privatizing' is what [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism] is all about???
It floors me people allow themselves to be indoctrinated with so much blatant stupidity.
^THIS +10000000000000..
The very reason the Jews were targeted was because of the failures of Socialism and Self-Projecting (What Leftards do always) pushing blame onto 'Identify-as' (What Leftards champion) groups.
The root of the problems was always socialism.
Believing 'Guns' (THEFT) is how success is achieved and never taking enough time from their criminal intentions to acknowledge that 'Guns' don't make sh*t. 'Gun' Demanded-side ONLY economics without any Supply-side acknowledgement. The "conquer and consume" mentality.
There's a reason every large-enough Communist / Socialist nation tried to conquer territory. It's part of the "conquer and consume" 'Gun' toting livelihood beliefs.