Social Security Is Deeply Unfair. The Social Security Fairness Act Won't Fix That.
What is paid out to Social Security beneficiaries is not a return on workers' investments. It's just a government expenditure, like any other.

Since publishing an article yesterday about the Senate's upcoming vote on a bill to bestow better Social Security benefits on some retired public sector workers, I've received dozens of emails arguing that the current rules governing Social Security are deeply unfair.
I agree with the emailers, but not for the reasons they state.
Still, this seems like a good opportunity to highlight how Social Security works—and why it seems to make so many people angry. The big flaw at the center of the program is that no one has any property right to the money that flows through Social Security, though you would not know that from many of the responses I've received in the past 24 hours. A sampling:
"It is only FAIR we receive our Social Security benefits of which we contributed during our careers," wrote one reader named Rich, who said he was retired from law enforcement. "This is very simple, we are only asking to be treated Fairly."
"In my opinion, this is discriminatory as well as theft from the elderly," added another reader, a retired Federal Aviation Administration employee named Peter.
One former teacher named Vivian described the situation as "the government is outright STEALING from people."
"We are fighting for its repeal and to finally receive what is rightfully ours!" Vivian added.
Every one of those responses (and many others) is rooted in a common misunderstanding of how the Social Security program works on a fundamental level. The tax dollars that flow into Social Security do not belong to the workers who have those funds extracted from paychecks. They belong to the federal government—just like the dollars that fund the Pentagon or the Department of Health and Human Services or any other government program.
Therefore, what is paid out to beneficiaries is not a return on workers' investments, as many people seem to believe. It is a government expenditure, subject to the rules that govern those expenditures.
Since 1983, one of those rules—the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP)—has curtailed Social Security payments to retirees who worked in the public sector and received a pension. That's true even if those workers also did some work in the private sector, in which case they might have earned some Social Security benefits. Those rules are the crux of the bill the Senate is currently considering.
Is that reduction in government expenditures to those people unfair? One can be sympathetic to the individuals who feel that way, but it's a little bit like saying that I should get a say in NASA's budget just because I paid taxes and some of those tax dollars might have gone to NASA.
Ultimately, these sentiments reveal more about the flaws of Social Security than they do about any notion of fairness.
Indeed, any conversation about the fairness of Social Security has to start by acknowledging how unfair the whole scheme is. Workers aren't given the choice to opt out. Younger, generally poorer workers are currently funding the retirements of older, generally wealthier beneficiaries. Most retirees receive significantly more in Social Security benefits than what they contributed during their careers. Is any of that fair?
The Social Security Fairness Act would increase payments to some retirees—and those retirees unsurprisingly see that as the fair outcome. However, it will cost the average couple $25,000 in lost benefits over the long term by accelerating the program's insolvency, according to an analysis by the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. Is that fair?
The big flaw at the center of all this is the simple fact that no one actually owns their Social Security benefits. That's a big part of the reason why people get so worked up about potential changes to the program. It's also why anyone who feels shortchanged in some way has to resort to making these silly arguments about fairness.
Allowing workers greater freedom to save for their own retirement would fix that. You can check your private retirement account anytime you'd like, see exactly how much you have, and not worry about federal policies that say you get more or less depending on what job you've had.
And if the company holding your account tells you one day that it going to return only half your money, you wouldn't argue with them about what was fair. No, you'd haul them into court for stealing from you. There would be an enforceable contract protecting your money.
Unfortunately, that's not how Social Security works. It never has and it never will. Understandably, this stresses people out.
It also creates opportunities for politically powerful special interests to influence the arbitrary rules governing who gets what. When retired public sector workers like Rich, Peter, and Vivian claim the WEP is unfairly reducing their benefits, this is what's really happening: They are looking at how the system worked before WEP was implemented in 1983, comparing that to how the system operates now, and complaining that they are now getting less than they would have under the old system.
That's true, but is it unfair? I don't think so. Like any government spending program, Social Security has arbitrary rules about who gets what and how much. You can dislike those rules and, of course, try to change them—which is exactly what these retired teachers and other public workers are trying to do.
But, then, they should be honest about what's happening. This isn't an attempt to make anything more or less fair. It's just a politically powerful special interest group trying to grab a bigger slice of the pie for its members.
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This is true only if you never invest those deductions, if you just stash cash in a box in your closet, and then moan 50 years later about how little you have. The truth is that SS is incredibly inefficient.
I calculated what my SS deductions would have earned over the years against Dow Jones and S&P 500 annual returns, starting every year since 1926 when the S&P 500 began, and calculated what withdrawing 5% a year would have provided. I forget the exact numbers now, but here is my best recollection:
* The DJIA averaged 10% yearly return over the last 10 years. The S&P 500 averaged 13%. So even withdrawing 5% would still have grown the principal.
* The worst starting year's 5% withdraw at retirement would have been 96% of the maximum SS payout.
* The average DJIA withdrawal would have provided 3 times the SS payout; the SP 500 would have been 5 times.
* The best DJIA/S&P 500 withdrawal would have been 7 or 9 (I forget which) times the SS payout.
Now I am no financial expert. If SS deductions were invested in indexed mutual funds tracking the DJIA or S&P 500, how much would all that extra money disrupt the stock markets, or investments in general? I do not know. Google says total stock market capitalization is $55 trillion. If SS payroll taxes are $1.5 trillion, and maintained for 50 years, that's $75 trillion. As very rough calculations, that implies doubling the stock market capitalization.
No matter how many accounting ledger games you want to entertain.
'Guns' are still not the proper way to make sh*t for you.
Point being: Most of that investment pay-back for nothing is nothing but a delusion of taking savings purchasing power from others via the Fiat-$ games government is already playing.
Say what? I'm saying that if the feds didn't steal my 15% payroll tax, and if I invested it myself, I could do 5 times better at retirement.
"If SS deductions were invested in" threw me for a loop.
"if the feds didn't steal" really is the bottom-line.
Well Said.
Dang. I'll have to remember that phrasing. Thanks.
Based-on your math you would invest 100% in the Dow and S&P? No safe havens? Are you 100% invested in those markets NOW?
yes
100% of the money on my tax deferred retirement is in an S and P index fund.
It grew 27% last year
It has averaged over 10% through my working life.
I do put other money (not tax deferred retirement) into a high yield savings account.
It has been getting 4.4% interest
I got divorced twice in my life and lost half my retirement both times.
The only way to make up for that is to invest in the market.
The S and P has been an excellent investment.
I retire entirely in 4 years and will put most of it into something safer at that point
Low-income public employees are a "politically powerful special interest group"? That's ludicrous.
Then why are they getting their way, at the expense of the rest of us, even though they did NOT pay in? Meanwhile, illegal sub-humans who DID pay in, are NOT getting ANY benefits!
See "The Truth About Undocumented Immigrants and Taxes" (in quotes) in your Google search window will take you straight there, hit number one... AKA http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/ For details about us natives mooching off of the taxes of the illegal sub-humans, for Social Security…
Despite all of this, Islamofascism will still be used to punish innocent Hispanics!
Above link is paywalled!
Also see this:
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2020/05/23/social-security-has-an-immigration-problem.aspx Need more legal immigrants, illegal immigrants, what have you; bring them ON!
https://www.marketplace.org/2019/01/28/undocumented-immigrants-quietly-pay-billions-social-security-and-receive-no/
Undocumented immigrants quietly pay billions into Social Security and receive no benefits
https://reason.com/2020/03/26/u-s-population-growth-rate-lowest-in-a-century-says-new-report/
No matter how responsible we are, and how hardworking we are, and how much money we save, our money will NOT feed us, change our bedsheets, or wipe our butts, while we linger on death’s doorstep, in our old age!!! Only PEOPLE can do these things! People = humans, not saved money!)
Meanwhile, the illegal sub-humans will pay and pay and pay taxes into our system, and never benefit, till we grind them into the dirt, and very-very few are left to work their asses off to support us in our old age!
Here is the latest version of that:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/perspectives/stimulus-checks-undocumented-taxpayers/index.html
These taxpayers won’t get stimulus checks. That’s unjust
By Tim Breene for CNN Business Perspectives
"The Atlantic?"
CNN?
Only useful idiots from hell follow those leftist propaganda machines.
I refute ALL truths that you might write, if shit comes from the WRONG source!
Hunter Biden art does concern me, to be clear about it. However, this is an opportune time to call attention to the hyper-partisans, who will “refute” what you say, by pointing out that your source is “from the wrong tribe”!
Leftist media bias by Vox is a fib sometimes! Hunter Biden art…
https://www.vox.com/2021/8/3/22601671/hunter-biden-art-sales-walter-shaub “Why Obama’s former ethics czar is highly critical of Hunter Biden’s lucrative art sales … There have been many bad-faith “scandals” linked to the president’s son. Walter Shaub thinks this one should be taken seriously.
I wonder if the Trumpaloos will now show up to say that Vox is liberally biased, and can't be trusted? This here “Vox” article MUST mean that Hunter Biden is a GREAT artist, and there are NO opportunities for corruption, here!
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/vox-news-media-bias
“VOX” rated as far-left as is allowed… The needle is pegged!
PROOF, then, that Hunter Biden art is of NO concern to stalwart conservatives and Trumpaloos! (Since Vox always lies, of course).
Hey Uncle-Smokes-WAAAAY-Too-Many-Jays... Are Ye now PervFectly rushing out to buy Yer PervFected Self some Hunter Biden art? Ye SHOULD ya know, since Vox says that You shouldn't!
Don't you freak out about Fox, but somehow CNN and the Atlantic are beyond criticism?
I don't freak out about about anyone's lies, not even YOUR PervFect Lies and Worshitting of the Evil One, Oh Ye PervFect Servant and Serpent of the Evil One! All I do is call out the lies, to warn other (innocent) people.
Sounds like the kind of talk indicative of a rabid squirrel that should be put down.
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Government workers are a politically powerful special interest group. If they wern't this absurdly named Social Security Fairness Act would never have seen the light of day.
It is a giveaway to wealthy former government employees with great pensions. The WEP is a fair law which does what its name implies- it eliminates unearned windfall payments.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Congress passed the WEP to prevent workers who receive non-covered pensions from receiving higher Social Security benefits as if they were long-time, low-wage earners
BACKGROUND: The Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP) is a formula used to adjust Social Security worker benefits for people who receive “non-covered pensions” and qualify for Social Security benefits based on other Social Security–covered earnings. a A non-covered pension is a pension paid by an employer that does not withhold Social Security taxes from your salary, typically, state and local governments or non-U.S. employers.
. b In 2022, the WEP applied to 3.1 percent of all beneficiaries (2.01 million beneficiaries out of 65.99 million total beneficiaries).
HOW THE WEP WORKS: Social Security benefits are calculated by applying three different percentages to a person's lifetime average indexed monthly earnings (AIME) and adding them up to obtain the worker's monthly benefit (primary insurance amount (PIA)) at full retirement age. For most beneficiaries in 2024, the PIA equals the sum of:
• 90 percent of the first $1,174 of AIME, plus
• 32 percent of AIME over $1,174 and through $7,078, plus
• 15 percent of AIME over $7,078.
The WEP PIA replicates the regular PIA but scales down the first percentage from 90 percent to 40 percent in increments of five percentage points for workers with less than 30 years of coverage (YOCs). Thus, workers with 30 or more YOCs have a first PIA factor of 90 percent, workers with 21–29 YOCs have a first PIA factor between 45–85 percent, and workers with 20 YOCs have a first PIA factor of 40 percent.
This continual technically-true claim always annoys me.
Yes, there is no legal obligation to pay out any SS benefits. But there sure is a moral obligation, just as anyone released from prison after 20 years for a factually wrongful conviction has some moral claim to compensation from the government which framed him. Congress could no more turn off the SS spigot than they could turn libertarian overnight.
And this has nothing to do with NASA. That's an absolutely useless comparison.
Not only that, the payout is tied to how much you earned, (thus paid in). NASA’s budget wouldn’t hinge on my income history.
Yet your taxes (NASA funding) is for the most part based on your income history as well isn't it.
Have you heard of the national debt? Seems NASA finding has been untethered to tax receipts for quite some time.
There is a moral obligation to pay out to those who earned. The WEP is a fair law which does what its name implies- it eliminates unearned windfall payments.
Congress passed the WEP to prevent workers who receive non-covered pensions from receiving higher Social Security benefits as if they were long-time, low-wage earners. This is fair.
But the WEP mostly affects people who WERE long-term low income earners. You really are clueless on this.
How much is your government pension? How much is your social security payment? Most government retirees are doing better than private sector retirees. They are not poor.
Read how social security payments are calculated. The WEP reduces social security payments to those who have government pensions who payed no social security taxes on their government earnings. If you work for only ten years in a job in which SS taxes are taken out and then spend 25 years in a govenment job from which SS taxes are not deducted you do not deserve the full social security payment as if you were a low earning employee in the private sector for your entire career. Read how social security payments are calculated.
Congress passed the WEP to prevent workers who receive non-covered pensions from receiving higher Social Security benefits as if they were long-time, low-wage earners
BACKGROUND: The Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP) is a formula used to adjust Social Security worker benefits for people who receive “non-covered pensions” and qualify for Social Security benefits based on other Social Security–covered earnings. a A non-covered pension is a pension paid by an employer that does not withhold Social Security taxes from your salary, typically, state and local governments or non-U.S. employers.
. b In 2022, the WEP applied to 3.1 percent of all beneficiaries (2.01 million beneficiaries out of 65.99 million total beneficiaries).
HOW THE WEP WORKS: Social Security benefits are calculated by applying three different percentages to a person's lifetime average indexed monthly earnings (AIME) and adding them up to obtain the worker's monthly benefit (primary insurance amount (PIA)) at full retirement age. For most beneficiaries in 2024, the PIA equals the sum of:
• 90 percent of the first $1,174 of AIME, plus
• 32 percent of AIME over $1,174 and through $7,078, plus
• 15 percent of AIME over $7,078.
The WEP PIA replicates the regular PIA but scales down the first percentage from 90 percent to 40 percent in increments of five percentage points for workers with less than 30 years of coverage (YOCs). Thus, workers with 30 or more YOCs have a first PIA factor of 90 percent, workers with 21–29 YOCs have a first PIA factor between 45–85 percent, and workers with 20 YOCs have a first PIA factor of 40 percent.
SS would be fair if the workers of the US would be allowed to invest their hard-earned money in the stock market instead of giving it to a bunch of nameless, faceless bureaucrats.
The current SS return is only around 1 - 3 % percent, if that.
Now if allowed to invest in the stock market, the return would be much higher.
But both parties don't want us to have a choice
They want us to have obedience, compliance and conformity to the current restrictions they oppress us with.
It's not even that. They just want to steal the money. which is what they are doing.
'democracy' will determine what [WE] will do with your hard-earned labors.
Once all the smoke screens are cleared; The party-of-slavery shows itself still persisting to the day.
Social security has always been structured as a safety net and marketed as an entitlement/insurance. The former is ok (ignoring the asshole wing of libertarians). The latter is the source of both the problems and the political support
So another failure on the part of government?
"asshole wing of libertarians" = anyone who objects to JFree robbing them so he/she can pat himself/herself on the back about what a big sport he/she is
'Guns' against those 'icky' working people is a security net?
What kind of a person operates at that level?
Hint; hint - A criminal mind.
The only 'tool' government has that is unique is 'Gun' force.
'Guns' don't instinctively make sh*t.
I’m more concerned about the asshole wing of democrats.
The biggest financial scam in the history of the world.
No, that would be fractional reserve banking.
Central banking may be the winner.
Both of them masterminded by Democrats.
The party of Criminal 'armed-theft' "financial scams".
Not as-if they haven't been advertising exactly that through all-of-time.
More people needed to stand-up and ask, "Where do all those ?free? ponies come from?"
Fiat currency?
If EVERYBODY is getting screwed, how is that unfair?
Public-Service Politicians aren't getting screwed.
They're making millions thinking up new ways to steal trillions.
SS may be funded under paygo, but it was marketed as "if you pay in now, you'll get yours later."
So yeah, if I pay in now, I want my cut in the future. They're already shotchanging me.
Ass an example of this, my Significant Other died a year and a few days ago. SO (Significant Other) died after paying in for 30 YEARS OR SO, and died after 1 or 2 years of bennies, I can't recall. Took out a FRACTION of SO's inputs! Despite me being a life partner for almost all of those years... Supporting SO and sharing costs and expenses, supporting SO at large personal expense as SO died... I got $255 in death bennies... NOTHING more! AND, to add insult on top of injury, this year I will need to pay TAXES on those $255!!!!
And NOW, pubic employees look set to collect bennies on twat they did NOT chip in for!!! This stinks to the Highest Heavens!!!
'democracy' voted to TAKE your "cut in the future".
If fairness is in the name of the bill, I'm guessing that's the opposite of what the bill does.
UN-Constitutional "Security for Socialists".
"seems like a good opportunity to highlight how Social"-ism works.
Socialism ***is*** Grand-THEFT through 'government'.
People who turn their 'halls of justice' into providers are F'En stupid. NOBODY has any 'halls of justice' left to turn to when they have literally turn the 'halls of justice' into their very providers.
Mostly all the people crying about the Gov-Guns not being fair are the same people who VOTED for the Gov-Guns to not be fair under some empathy virtue-signalling 'equality' BS.
These are but consequences of entertaining socialism. When 'Guns' are the tool of people's livelihoods then political battles (Gun-use battles) is sure to persist to a blood-bath end always fighting over who gets the LAST TWINKIE. Because 'Guns' don't make sh*t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
US Debt $36,239,000,000,000
Your FAIR share is a BILL for $109,815.
...including $109,815 for every dependent in your household (under 18).
Funny how 'Fair' never accounts for the debt-side.
"this seems like a good opportunity to highlight how Social(ism) Security" ... DOES NOT WORK.
I'm game on killing Social Security. But, you're deluding yourself if you think this is a win:
The tax dollars that flow into Social Security do not belong to the workers who have those funds extracted from paychecks. They belong to the federal government...
Consider the equally legal parallel:
The deposits that flow into your account with Citibank do not belong to you. They belong to the Citigroup.
Technically, true. But, I think you'd probably be a bit miffed if Citi decided not to make good on the money you deposited with them. The fact that your payments to Social Security are at gunpoint is the only distinction and, strangely, the perverse justification for negating the liability. It was always theft. Just theft dressed up to make it palatable.
Social-ist Security is precisely turning Gov-Guns into 'armed' criminals.
Well, yeah. That's my point. It's only "legitimate" to not pay out Social Security to the extent it was never legitimate to take the money in the first place. In short, the argument is that, yes, it's not fair. But, expecting fairness is like expecting fairness from the mob.
Well Said, " expecting fairness is like expecting fairness from the mob".
Technically, true. But, I think you'd probably be a bit miffed if Citi decided not to make good on the money you deposited with them. The fact that your payments to Social Security are at gunpoint is the only distinction and, strangely, the perverse justification for negating the liability. It was always theft. Just theft dressed up to make it palatable.
I don't think this is true at all. When you deposit money at a bank, it isn't now the bank's money, but you have a contract to withdraw it. That is not how it works. They are holding your money, they can use it to make loans and investments while they have it, but if you show up and want the money, they have to give it to you. Because it is yours. If they can't, then the bank becomes insolvent and gets taken over by the government, iirc, to divide up the remaining assets to pay as much of the deposited money to customers as it can. The difference is paid by the FDIC, up to the maximum. This is why a "run on a bank" can be devastating to it. If the depositors panic and all want their deposits back at the same time, and the bank can't give everyone their money, then it folds.
Secondly, referring to taxes as theft gets really old to hear. It isn't theft, and you'll have to dig for some radicals, even among libertarians, that will seriously argue that it is.
The hell taxes aren't theft! They sure as hell aren't voluntary.
Then I'm sure you can explain how the world you envision, where there are no involuntary taxes, works.
Free-markets work great until criminal minds try STEALING sh*t.
Suppressing criminal minds is exactly why 'taxes' need to exist.
Yet the left has literally turned justice on it's head and STOLE those taxes for their own "pity-me a ?free? pony" 'criminal mind' progression.
You know this; you just play stupid because you have a 'criminal mind'.
I didn't see anything inaccurate or even slightly misleading in how Boehm describes Social Security. He could have explained why there is a Social Security "trust fund", though. That is the source of much of the confusion.
As I understand it, the original purpose of the SS Trust Fund was basically to be a buffer between revenue and benefits for when the business cycle is up or down. By law, SS benefits can only be paid from revenue + whatever is in the trust fund (probably getting details of the accounting wrong, but that's the gist of it, I think). And, the SS tax can only go to SS.
In the early 80s, the various economic crises that had been going on we causing the SS to deplete the Trust Fund (its buffer), and that would mean benefit cuts. But it wasn't going to be just a temporary problem, as increases in life expectancy, increases in the amount of benefits vs revenue, and so on, they needed a long-term fix. They also saw the retirement of the Boomer generation being a cliff, so they raised the payroll tax rate, raised the age for 'full' retirement, so that the Trust Fund would grow.
And grow, it did. To the tune of trillions of dollars. At the time, they thought it might cover the Boomers completely, but they've known that wasn't going to work for decades now. And all this while, the Treasury was borrowing from the Trust Fund. Thus, its assets are Treasury bills. SS has been redeeming some of those every year for a while now to keep benefits at the current level, but they'll run out of those in ~10 years or so, from what I've read.
And that sums up the core fiscal problems with how SS is designed and how it actually worked over the last 40+ years.
Boehm writes,
Allowing workers greater freedom to save for their own retirement would fix that. You can check your private retirement account anytime you'd like, see exactly how much you have, and not worry about federal policies that say you get more or less depending on what job you've had.
That all sounds great, as long as you have the room in your budget to save for retirement and aren't already heavily in debt and barely able to keep up with your current expenses. The purpose of SS that neither Democrats nor Republicans really want to say is that it isn't primarily about funding retirement for people that can save on their own. The primary purpose of SS is about providing retirement income for people that can't save on their own. It is, and always has been, a welfare program.
Republicans (and independent registered voters that reliably vote for Republicans) that currently rely on SS checks, or that are working but are expecting to need SS checks don't think of it this way because they are supposed to be ideologically opposed to welfare. They can resolve that cognitive dissonance by believing that they "earned" their SS benefits while they were working, and thus it is really "their" money. Middle class progressive voters probably know this about SS, but they want it to give the poor and low income workers more benefits than they ever contributed. Their dissonance comes from not confronting how much more their benefits are or will be worth compared to their contributions.
Naturally, politicians of both parties have every incentive to avoid the truth, because no one ever got more votes by telling the electorate how screwed they are by the choices of politicians of the past and present.
The solution is for voters to learn this truth elsewhere and then tell the politicians to fix and how to fix it, rather than wait for them to get their shit together and make the necessary compromises. Or, voters can remain in blissful and willful ignorance and keep cheering on their team while the situation just gets worse.
The US has always had a "welfare program".
It is called prison.
The problem is too many think they can 'Gun' down others for their benefit and never have to loose any Individual freedom while doing it.
Reason, now do defined benefit public pensions (and the constant bailouts of them called the federal taxpayer)
Then, do the majority of us who do not have defined benefit pensions and are subject to market swings, corrections and RISK!
A retirement without risk for government
A retirement with risk for the proles
All this technical nit-picking on definitions is interesting and all, but what CAN be done to unwind Social Security? Seems to me that after one generation, people are locked into the plan forever. The current taxpayers can't stop making payments because they're supporting the current retirees. The current retirees can't "withdraw" their previously-paid taxes, those have already been spent.
Perhaps a graduated system could be used to unwind the program over a succession of generations. As each new taxpayer starts making payments, a graduated portion of them go to supporting current retirees, and the remainder to their own accounts. Eventually everyone is supporting just their own account, perhaps over the next 30 years, or the average length of retirement, whichever is shorter.
I am much more a fan of straight-up insurance programs like Medicare. Traditional Medicare is the only health insurer I know of that tells you *in advance* what they will and will not cover, and for exactly how much. No other provider comes close, and some of those "advantage" plans are designed to advantage insurers, not the insured.
Implement free market capitalism and get the economy to a point where the government gives everyone their money back adjusted for inflation and close it down.
Make State's or even MORE LOCAL welfare-offices balance their budgets.
There is a reason So[zi]alists went [Na]tional in the USA.
Precisely because of National fiat currency.
The Feds can STEAL by fiat (printing fake $) and no-one groans so much about it.
The 'standard' theft of the Feds by fiat steals ~$10K/yr/each-person. Demonstrated by the fact that a $50K tractor cost 2x all-worn-out today than what they cost right off the factory floor 60-years ago. So actually $10K/yr is a wildly under-estimate of inflation costs.
If people really got an actual COST amount in their tax-bill it would blow their minds and instantly launch a revolution. Deception is the key element to getting away with Corruption.
You are all wrong. The appeal of SS is in off-loading the responsibility for personal saving and planning for retirement. Plus the hope that we might get more, like spousal benefits.
The success of saving and planning for retirement by those affluent enough to do so depends in large part on the fact that most people can't or won't do that. Imagine if all Boomers had saved and invested enough for a comfortable retirement, and were now cashing out to live on their nest eggs. What would that have done to stock and bond values? We can't put food, clothing, shelter, and medical care in the bank for retirement—only money.
Nothing ... because *if* the $ was *earned* (keyword) providing food, clothing, shelter and medical care during their working years and put into savings the next generation provides the same for their savings.
Why it's like the free-market was designed to balance itself and only 'Gun' THEFT creates the zero-sum resources worries of UN-balanced accounting.
No, Mr. Keynes, it doesn't work that way. The presence of money does not make wealth appear.
"*if* the $ was *earned*" is opposite of Mr. Keynes theory.
You're absolutely right but *earned* money/currency has 'saved' service-value behind it precisely because it has to be *earned*. If the current generation wants $ they have to *earn* it in trade of the pasts *earned* 'savings'.
USD fake-fiat (UN-earned) is the problem; not the 'saving' / 'trading' part of the currency system.
Social Security was initiated for low-income seniors who were otherwise panhandling, dying etc.
Many low-income people don't have jobs that offer a 401K. Even so, if there was a big market crash right before someone retired with a low income, and they only had stock-market savings, they might not have money to live on.
It *is* a welfare program for the poor. It is also a forced low-risk (albeit low reward) savings plan for those who aren't poor. I'd say if you asked people to opt-out of Social Security some would and some would not. Some people like the idea of a low-risk option that they don't have to think about.
Is it fair that some people get more than they put in and some get less? No. Taxes aren't fair. Part of taxes are targeted to social services (like a managed savings account) which deter the proletariat from killing the rich people because their living conditions are so miserable they have nothing to lose.
And as being such ... "a welfare program for the poor".
It should've never been separated from the LOCAL welfare-office at all.
Exactly as the US Constitution stipulates.
SS is a failure because the function of government is to defend liberty not feed, clothe and house us. Our government is irrational and coercive and it doesn't look like it's going to change any time soon.
Well Said +10000000000...
...UN-Constitutional (ILLEGAL) which wraps all that up in detail.
I pray for the day SCOTUS will actually do its job honorably.
I find it funny what you would be sent to prison for doing in the private sector is leadership in the public sector.
Social security is what is commonly called a Ponzi scheme. This system was setup as a pay as you go system with the slush fund to smooth over any cash flow imbalances less the duped get wise.
The US Supreme Court has held that there is no property right in social security this was settled in Fleming v Nestor 363 U.S. 603 (1960),
I have been an opponent of social security since the day I turned 16, was hire at a Kroger bagging groceries and saw the government take 7.5 percent of my paycheck. 40 years later and eligible in six years to take benefits at 62, the system will be insolvent and will only be able to deliver on 80 percent of what they promised.
I look at what I paid in and it is a lousy return on investment.
With all of that said how does one unwind it? There are millions of American that were duped by the politicians and rely upon it and there is no magic pocket of money
The best argument against Social Security was in Hayley’s The constitution of Liberty which I paraphrase. He stated that the social securities system suffer a profound problem of taxing the young and strong to give to the feeble and weak. At some point if such a scheme become to onerous the young and strong are going to rise up.
You paid 15%, not 7.5%. Your employer didn't pay its half of your SS tax from its profits, but from your compensation. Splitting the payment into two parts was just an accounting gimmick.
The self-employed pay 15%. That's how you know.
The same is true of medicare insurance premiums. Collected by the employer, but 100% paid by the employee.
Social Security is a ponzy scheme that many seniors rely on. There is zero doubt that it needs to be phased out, be it needs to be phased out over time and not by pulling the rug out of underneath the victims.
Democrats aren't victims.
They're the very ones who launched the ponzy scheme.
The victims would be the millions of seniors or near seniors forced to pay in and are now reliant on the SS payouts. Is your solution to steal all the assets from Democrats to make them whole?
Gosh. If Democrats cared one bit about 'paying' for their 'plans' they wouldn't have needed the 'Guns' of THEFT to begin with.
They'd just go donate to charity. Seems quite reasonable to say their ?charity? plans have been received and their net-gain from their ?charity? donation is ZERO.
I mean you wouldn't want to throw a wrench in their 'charity' plans now and insist it was nothing but a scam to entitle themselves with would you?
If you are 65 in 2025, you get 100% benefits.
If you are 64 in 2025, you get 95% benefits.
If you are 63 in 2025, you get 90% benefits.
Continue cutting 5% per year until people currently age 45 will get nothing. Everyone continues to pay into it at the full rate until the last recipient dies. Any surplus simply goes to the national debt.
You think the 45 year olds will go for that? Politicians don't have the stomach to reform SS. I say let people opt out. That will be more palatable. Those that allow themselves to be taxed can get the benefits. Of course the rich will opt out causing the government to depend on other sources of funds. Raising the soc security retirement age might be more doable, though it will still raise protests from older people, who tend to vote more reliably than younger people.
Here's the critical problem with that. Right now, everyone is forced to "opt in", and it's not enough to sufficiently fund the program. Allowing the people who are putting in the most and getting out the least to opt out doesn't fix the problem. It actually just makes it worst. If you don't want to cut SS cold turkey, then the government needs to either cut the amount spent or raise the amount taken (or some combination of the two). But the status quo is not viable.
No.
The plan is to do nothing
Both parties have said they will not touch social security.
So in 10 years, everyone gets a 10% benefit cut
So in 10 years, everyone gets a 10% benefit cut
I thought it was more than double that. Could be wrong, but I'm likely to find out the hard way as that would be right around when I'd be looking to retire.
20%. Trump wants to raise the retirement age one more year, which will at least delay the trust fund running out and benefit cuts.
The Biden/Harris campaigns called that "cutting Social Security" in numerous ads showing old people fussing about lower checks. That isn't Trump's plan; his is to make people wait one more year to retire and but continue getting the full benefit once they're in. It does seem to be Harris's plan, by doing nothing until the automatic 20% cuts kick in. Of course, Biden has already cut benefits significantly, with inflation vastly outpacing COLA increases, especially of food, rent or utility bills, and medicine (the bare necessities for retirees).
Oh well, I'll survive. I've got no debts and nearly $200K invested, and it's been growing since I retired - my wife and I together get $3500 per month from the SSA and spend $2800, so a 20% cut will put us at about break-even, with hopefully plenty left for emergencies. Going on SSA and stopping working cut my (mostly non-taxable) income by over half, but somehow cut my expenses by even more.
We can’t meaningfully change a lot of things until the democrats are gone.
From https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/2024/tr2024.pdf
Conclusion
Under the intermediate assumptions, the projected hypothetical combined OASI and DI Trust Fund asset reserves become depleted and unable to pay scheduled benefits in full on a timely basis in 2035. At the time of depletion of these combined reserves, continuing income to the combined trust funds would be sufficient to pay 83 percent of scheduled benefits. The OASI Trust Fund reserves are projected to become depleted in 2033, at which time OASI income would be sufficient to pay 79 percent of OASI scheduled benefits. DI Trust Fund asset reserves are not projected to become depleted during the 75-year period ending in 2098.
Lawmakers have a broad continuum of policy options that would close or reduce Social Security's long-term financing shortfall. Estimates for many such policy options are available at ssa.gov/OACT/solvency/provisions/.
Every couple of years, I get a statement from Social Security telling me how much I can expect if I retire at age XX.
I began paying into Social Security in 1976, and I haven't missed a quarter since. I plan to retire soon, and I'm going to be pretty peeved if I don't get everything those statements told me to expect.
That said, I've got a place we can start cutting: Folks who never paid into Social Security. At present, something like 50% of Social Security expenditures are made on behalf of people who have never paid a dime into the system.
Did you return your COVID checks?
Who will pay for the war against plant-life sustenance (CO2).
Who will pay for Obamacare.
Who will pay to study crack-life sexual patterns.
Who will pay for D.C. salaries to dictate everyone?
Who will pay for all those Student Loans?
Who will pay for special-people Mortgage favors?
Who will pay for Trans-Lobbying groups?
Who will pay for "THE CHILDREN!" ?
Who will pay for drug-rehab?
Who will pay for Interest on all those ?free? empathy ponies?
Yes; The USA has been VOTED into a [Na]tional So[zi]alist Empire.
Crying about YOUR UN-fair treatment of the Nazi-Empire without addressing that Nazi-Empires existence in the first place is a waste of time.
When's the last time people cared enough to care if their candidates campaigned on UPHOLDING the US Constitution? Prided themselves on honoring their very promise/oath of office? Campaigned on respecting "the peoples" supreme law over them?
The USA (a *Constitutional* Republic) doesn't survive a 'democratic' Al'Capone take-over and that has been well demonstrated. People have to care to KEEP a USA more than they care about their own selfish bottom-line.
If the USA is to prevent a Venezuelan repeat (all your $-purchasing power being gone) it is going to take a real effort to correct the 'armed-theft' mistake instead of crying over spilled milk while pouring more of it on the floor.
"Most retirees receive significantly more in Social Security benefits than what they contributed during their careers. Is any of that fair?" YES, BECAUSE: You are not counting the interest that should accrue on that money. Particularly since the government used the money the amount should include interest.
Goddamn right.