Courts Are Coming for Digital Libraries
A federal court recently said the Internet Archive is not protected by fair use doctrine.

In September, a federal appeals court dealt a major blow to the Internet Archive—one of the largest online repositories of free books, media, and software—in a copyright case with significant implications for publishers, libraries, and readers.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit upheld a lower court ruling that found the Internet Archive's huge, digitized lending library of copyrighted books was not covered by the "fair use" doctrine and infringed on the rights of publishers.
Agreeing with the Archive's interpretation of fair use "would significantly narrow—if not entirely eviscerate—copyright owners' exclusive right to prepare derivative works," the 2nd Circuit ruled. "Were we to approve [Internet Archive's] use of the works, there would be little reason for consumers or libraries to pay publishers for content they could access for free."
Following the decision, Maria Pallante, president of the Association of American Publishers, said in a press release that the Archive "attempted to do what no one had done before, which was to call unauthorized distribution of entire books 'lending' without permission."
The Internet Archive is a nonprofit with a mission "to provide Universal Access to All Knowledge," with an online collection of 44 million books and texts. It also operates a digital lending library called the Open Library. The Archive owns a physical copy of every book in the Open Library, and it scans and uploads them. Except for a period during the COVID-19 pandemic, the Archive has allowed only one digital copy of a book to be checked out at a time—a one-to-one owned-to-loaned ratio, just like a brick-and-mortar library.
In 2020, four publishers—Hachette Book Group, HarperCollins Publishers, John Wiley & Sons, and Penguin Random House—sued the Archive, alleging copyright infringements. A federal court ruled against the Internet Archive in March 2023, and the nonprofit appealed the decision to the 2nd Circuit last September.
The Archive argued that its Open Library was protected by fair use doctrine and that scanning the books was a transformative use of the material done in the public interest.
"Our take is that it's absurd that the Internet Archive is allowed to mail me a physical book it owns. The physical publishers can't stop that. But [the Archive] can't give me the same content in digital form," Cara Gagliano, senior staff attorney for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which is representing the Archive in court, told KQED in San Francisco.
The 2nd Circuit rejected that argument almost entirely, holding that the Archive's digitization didn't improve the efficiency of lending; that it didn't constitute transformative works, but rather "derivative" works; and that it directly competed with publishers by offering free versions of their entire product.
"True, libraries and consumers may reap some short-term benefits from access to free digital books, but what are the long-term consequences?" the court wrote. "If authors and creators knew that their original works could be copied and disseminated for free, there would be little motivation to produce new works."
The 2nd Circuit's reasoning fundamentally misunderstood several issues at the heart of the case. Publishers have steadily made e-licenses for books more expensive and subject to more and more frequent renewals, making it difficult for libraries to afford extensive online catalogs.
The 2nd Circuit also claims to be protecting authors, but the typical users of the lending library are writers and researchers who need to briefly get their hands on an old book, not someone looking for the latest bestseller. (For example, when I was researching a story about the history of the Drug Enforcement Administration for Reason, I used the Archive's Open Library to check out a scan of Joe Eszterhas' Nark!, an out-of-print 1974 nonfiction book detailing the deadly misadventures of federal narcotics agents.)
While the rest of the internet becomes noticeably worse and more obnoxious—a process the author Cory Doctorow memorably calls "enshittification"—the Archive remains an example of the radical digital freedom that the World Wide Web originally promised to users.
The 2nd Circuit's ruling is a gift to the "weary giants of flesh and steel," as John Perry Barlow's 1996 "Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace" called the industries and governments trying to regulate the early internet. The Internet Archive was founded the same year Barlow published his manifesto.
The nonprofit said in a press release that it was "reviewing the court's opinion and will continue to defend the rights of libraries to own, lend and preserve books."
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Shitty decision by shitty courts! Lending me a book on the internet burns a LOT less gas (releases less carbon dioxide) then mailing me a copy to be held temporarily! And the physical printed copy doesn't wear out! But after ye go to law school, common sense is driven OUT of your head!
I don't object to creators (e.g., authors, artists, musicians, etc) having copyright to their own unique works during their lives, but once it's out of print any publishing rights should revert from the publisher to them, and when they die it should enter the public domain.
There should be no copyright protection for out-of-print books, nor for "orphan" works whose "owners" cannot be contacted for permission to use them. Allowing copyright "owners" to sit on a work without making it available is inimical to the purpose of the copyright privilege.
I got attacked online once by a lawyer representing copyright holders of (ex-Thin Lizzy frontman) Phil Lynott’s solo demos (1984-1985ish).
I had been praising a YouTuber who had released some extremely low fi, super hard to find demos that I was grateful to get my hands on. The lawyer hopped on to tell me very high quality versions of the songs existed but would probably never be released now that the YouTuber put up some barely audible tape to digital teasers. And that it was our fault it would never happen.
I mentioned to him Phil had been dead since early 1986, and that the only reason anyone knew these songs existed and could get excited about them were a couple of YouTubers releasing them. And that people like me would happily pay for higher quality versions in any format.
It was like speaking Russian to a Chinaman. Some grandkid or the guy who adjusted the mic 40 years ago had to get paid.
This problem calls for a solution by the legislature rather than the courts. If it's too difficult to legislate on any subject then it's time to abolish the legislature.
Work harder to track down the owners of the rights then make a compelling argument for accessing the content in question. Accept that some people won’t want to share.
No. If they refuse to make it available, they should lose the exclusive privilege of licensing it. No hoarding. The rationale behind copyrighting is to encourage creativity by providing a limited period during which the creator enjoys the sole right to profit from the work. If they are making no effort to profit from it, there's no state interest in protecting their exclusivity by violating the free expression and enterprise of others who would use the work.
Accept that some people won’t want to share.
They've already shared. If they hadn't, we wouldn't know about it.
They provided the conditions by which they were willing to share. And if they later remove those, put on the big girl pants and accept it.
I have only needed to go through this a few times and always had a positive outcome where gaining access/the conditional use I sought was granted. I am not extrapolating that to each/all/every instance.
Perhaps a less demanding/entitlement attitude approach could result in a different outcome.
Allowing publishers to hoard works without making them available does not serve the purposes for which copyrighting was created; therefore, the abridgement of rights necessitated by copyright enforcement is not justified in those cases.
It is the condition by which they are allowing any access at anytime. They shouldn’t be forced to bake the cake.
Uh… this is actually the case where the cake is already baked and on the shelf. Nobody forced them to bake it. They’re, and frequently not even the original 'they' are, just refusing to sell it to (some) people.
The recipe is on the shelf. And you demand they bake you the cake.
If you can’t comply with their conditions of use, don’t purchase it. And if they refuse to make it available for purchase, tough shit.
It's a bad analogy because it's not one physical cake. Intellectual property and physical property are very different.
It's more like the recipe. Someone created it, another person bought the rights to it, but won't let it be shared by anyone else. Even if those people are willing to pay. But also goes after anyone else who might try to share the recipe.
And in extreme cases, you have people dead for decades, but their IP is controlled by companies who had nothing to do with the creator.
Digital copies are copying the recipe no? They are making extra copies no?
And? It is their decision whether to share with you. Some decide against it.
Your analogy is entirely missing the point.
It's a library. It already bought the book. It loans it out. It just loans out a digital copy (such that only one is out at a time, just as if it was the physical book). The writer (and publisher) already got paid.
...unless you're saying Libraries should be illegal?
The recipe is on the shelf. And you demand they bake you the cake.
False. The recipe is on the shelf. They don’t have to do a Goddamned thing except not call the police on me for reading it to myself.
As others point out, you're missing the point, we can continue this argument down to the fundamental ownership of bits. Your stance is that they are the dominion of the government and the government decides which bits in which sequences are protected and/or owned by whom. The reality is that the government can't possibly do that effectively in any length of perpetuity and it's stupid to think they can.
I don't advocate that they be forced to do anything. I'm opposed to the government using force to stop others from making use of their material unless it's done in a way that promotes the legitimate goals of copyrighting. Copyright privilege is a violation of the rights of those who would make use of copyrighted material, but I'm convinced by the argument that temporary abridgement of those rights is justified by the good that can be done with REASONABLE and TEMPORARY copyright protection.
That is for them to decide since it is theirs. Some choose to put it into the public domain and others do not.
What exactly is "theirs"? It is up to our lawmakers to decide the nature and extent of copyright protection. Right now, that privilege is ludicrously inflated.
What if I don't particularly want to encourage creativity? When did it become the job of government to encourage creativity - and why? No doubt we all benefit one way or another, sooner or later from some fruits of creativity. And I agree that inventors and artists should profit from the sale of original works of art and the products of their invention. The question should always be: what is the overriding, compelling need for government to get involved? EVERY government intervention has costs, and some of those costs are unintended consequences, some of which are much worse than failing to address the original purpose of the intervention. This is an example of one of those cases. Theft of "ideas" is not only impossible, trying to prevent it does great harm.
No, copyright privilege is not consistent with doctrinaire libertarianism.
That's the real problem. On one hand, copyright law didn't anticipate the ease with which copies of material could be lent electronically. On the other hand, copyright wasn't originally meant to cover such long periods, especially without active renewal. Under the previous scheme, there'd be nobody renewing copyright on orphan works 28 years after publication, so the problem practically would not exist.
Sounds like an oddball ruling from 2nd circuit. Are there any other circuit court cases on the same question?
The Google Books case, also in the 2nd circuit, found that Google's scans were OK because they were used to build a search engine that only showed snippets, not full books. I am not thrilled about this decision but it's not obviously wrong if you read the rather vague rules for fair use.
The very fact of being so vague ought to condemn them. Rule of Law is alleged to mean that laws are written down in advance so people know what is forbidden, allowed, and mandated. Yet a person can be found guilty of violating a law so vague that appeals courts reverse trial courts 2-1, with law clerks, libraries of law books, amicus briefs, months and years of discussion with learned colleagues, and still split 2-1; then reverse themselves en banc 7-4 after more months and years of study and discussion, and be reversed again by the Supreme Court 5-4 after more months and years of study and discussion. And the poor guilty party somehow was supposed to know this final ruling years in the future!
Rule of law is hogwash. A facade to impress yokels. A fig leaf to help you pretend the naughty bits don't exist.
And while lawyers are necessary in current society, and some are even decent people giving the other 99% a good name, that's like saying the cure for rabies is indispensable in a world of rabid dogs and bats.
some are even decent people
I’ve interacted with some two dozen lawyers and not sure I can confirm this statement. One was very, very close.
When someone passes the bar, the demon takes over their body, but the soul escapes into the ether. The lawyer make walk and talk like that person, but it isn’t really them anymore. However, there are a very few attorneys who have been re-ensouled. Being lawyers with would, they seek to help the helpless.
These beings are indeed rare.
I knew a lawyer who was an officious prick, and wouldn't even return calls asking about a book I'd loaned him. But a point in his favor was a story he told about being a small claims court judge. Some black kid, saxophone player, had been beaten badly enough by three rich frat boys that he couldn't play for six weeks, and he came to small claims court to get his medical bills paid. I can guess why the cops were never called, from where this happened. The judge was so pissed at their smirking and their parents' smirking that he awarded maximum payment from each of the three, I think $5000 at the time (1990s?). The parents wasted money appealing and lost. He was actually proud of it, and I can't disagree, from the point of view that if you're going to throw your weight around, that was a pretty good way to do it, and in that town, at that time, the cops weren't any help at all.
Rule of law is hogwash.
Yup. Like you said, when the exact same situation can go several different ways, with the only variable being the people charge, then you’ve got rule of man, not rule of law.
We live in a feudal society. Only the costumes have changed.
*doesn't apply to Trump.
See sarcs consistent support of lawfare for political reasons.
^^This is what it looks like when a schizophrenic goes off their meds.^^
Again, that’s you. Jesse is calm, level, and consistent. He backs up his claims. This is why you love/hate him. He holds you accountable.
Sarc can only use insults he learned from someone else. I think they call that: “Machine learning.”
Well….. he sort of ‘learns’ them. Has anyone compiled a co prehensile list of every word he’s picked up here and consistently misused?
Here’s a partial list:
1. Gaslight
2. Strawman
3. Fascist (he didn’t learn it here, but he uses it incorrectly)
4. Intellectual property (after reading an exchange with Jesse below)
We should try and get him to use ‘jerkstore’. That could be fun.
Well, it took like 8 posts before someone brought Trump into it. Must be some kind of record.
New here? I like calling out hypocrisy from fake libertarians.
"New here? I like
calling out hypocrisy from fake libertariansarguing against the voices in my head."ftfy, yw
You know, ive asked you prior to point out where I’m wrong and you never actually do.
You just believe that if you deny your past enough, it never happened.
I have posts of J6, Bannon, Alex jones, Trump. You have only once said the law was wrong (NDA case after Sullum and NYT relented) and even after that you went oh well, jury agreed, so the law is the law.
You’re a hypocrite sarc.
You didn’t vote for Chase because he might be gay. Racist.
They need to threaten him with a major criminal trial (outside of DC) to get him to flip on Garland and everyone else in the Biden administration. Then hav whom read a public statement admitting to his misdeeds, and that it was coordinated lawfare puppeteered by the democrats.
Then disbar him, but he avoids prison time. Perhaps he can learn to code.
It's impossible to be a good person and a lawyer.
Legal ethics require you to do bad things. Like say you have a client who is a child molester and you know it because your client admitted it to you. You are obligated to do your best to represent his or her interests, regardless of the children.
My father was a lawyer and was in this position once (he was court appointed). He screwed his client over deliberately, which is a horrible violation of legal ethics and probably could have gotten him disbarred.
Also Google has extra legal protections
Are libraries violating copyright? How is this meaningfully different?
There's a copyright trade association whose chief gave a speech in the early days of the Internet about how immoral traditional brick and mortar libraries were, letting people read books without paying royalties. I don't remember now how far her lunacy extended, but there were plenty of jokes about parents having to buy separate copies to read to their children, whether it was moral or legal to sing in the shower or sing along with the car radio, even whether everyone who read a book or heard a song or watched a movie would have to be brainwashed so they'd have to pay again to read or hear or see it again -- but how would they know to, since they had been brainwashed to forget everything about it? How could anyone ever write reviews or recommend books or music or movies to their friends?
Intellectual property shouldn't be protected anyway. The hallmark of property is not physical possession so much as control. Fences and doors control access to land; safes and locks control access to moveable property. Selling property doesn't sell the land itself; it sells control of it.
When you sell a book, you no longer have control of it. If the new owner wants to copy it and sell or give away copies, that is their business, not the previous owner's.
IP proponents say ideas should have the same protection as physical goods. I say yes they should; keep your ideas to yourself, same as you keep your money and books to yourself, and you are still in control. Give your idea to someone else, and you have lost control.
You can have your cake and eat it too; you can't give your cake away and eat it too. But you can give away your cake recipe and still use it yourself, and you should be happy with that.
IP shows its moral bankruptcy in needing to be explicitly called out in the Constitution, yet its duration is limited and arbitrary, unlike tangible property; copyrights (but not patents) are inherited like tangible property, yet only for 70 years after death. Why can music or words be copyrighted, yet not mathematical formulas which don't correspond to nature? Why should material copyrighted at age 20 have 50 years more protection than something copyrighted at age 70, and why should works by an author who dies at age 20 have less protection than an author who dies at age 70? The whole arena of copyrights and patents is carveouts within carveouts.
Intellectual property shouldn’t be protected anyway.
Them's fighting words to a certain troll in these comments.
Lol. Sarc thinks copyright is the same as IP used in industry. Lol.
Can always tell the people who have never worked on new technology or seen the costs associated with IRAD.
Always dreaming of stealing the work of others aren't you buddy.
You really need to take some medication for those voices in your head.
Are you too drunk to realize what you post?
You have a consistent belief that 3rd party theft to make shit you purchase cheaper is fine. Who cares about the theft.
Tell me.
If someone spends 5 years, 80 hour weeks developing, spending money, to create a novel technology, they should not be rewarded for that? Someone can just steal and reproduce without the IRAD costs adding to production costs. That is the summation of your “free market” economic theory.
Seriously dude, go to a doctor. Only the voices in your head are making the arguments you’re arguing against. Get help. Check out local institutions and check yourself into one. They'll quiet the voices for you.
No, Jesse isn’t the problem, you are. As always. Your nonsensical. Drunken deflections don’t fool anyone.
Are you really this desperate for Pedo Jeffy headpats?
You truly are amazing sarc. I have backed up my assertions with your own posts countless times.
Maybe develop a principled and consistent ideology?
The trump win completely broke what was left of that hollow shell of a person.
Sarckles and reality have mutually agreed to part ways.
They never saw eye to eye anyway.
40 + years of severe alcohol abuse and a second Trump presidency have finally destroyed him.
Jesse is right, people who create intellectual property need to be paid for their work just like everyone else. Patents and copyrights exist for good reasons. Copyrights don't last 120 years for good reasons, they last 120 years because Mickey Mouse is a good lobbyist.
I've never argued against what Jesse is saying. It's a red herring that he throws out whenever the subject of free trade comes up, which he then argues against, strawman style, before setting it on fire and declaring victory, completely unaware that he only defeated the voices in his severely undermedicated mind.
Amd once again you’re racing nonsensically about tariffs. I wonder who you will blame for those tariffs?
Sarc, loom at your first fucking post. My views on IP for manufactured goods is what you reference.
Meanwhile you’ve constantly defended chinese theft of domestic IP because you get shit cheaper.
You are such a pathological moron.
I literally responded to your accusation in YOUR first post.
Learn what a red herring is.
Free trade means your government doesn’t interfere with your ability to trade with others.
Just admit that you are a protectionist who despises free trade. You want government interference to protect producers, no matter the harm to consumers. You throw out red herrings like IP and whatnot to distract from what free trade actually is, then attack some strawman that hates IP, all because you hate free trade.
Be honest for the first time in your life.
Why do you keep pulling down on being wrong? Over and over? Even when I simplify it down for you. You are incapable of ever educating yourself.
I've literally given you the definition. It literally says BETWEEN nations. Not one way.
You're fucking retarded.
Unilateral free trade is still free trade. It simply means governments don’t listen to people like you who would throw rocks in your own harbor to punish foreign governments.
Unilateral free trade is only free in one direction, hence, it's not really free trade. True free trade requires balance between the trading partners.
Unilateral free trade is still free trade.
Jesus.
You just want cheap shit. You don’t care if foreign governments (like China) engage in predatory practices to collapse US industries.
Unilateral free trade is still free trade.
I’m not surprised the drunkard would use the exact same economic arguments slavers used in their time, they are the same after all.
I am surprised that the shellacking of the open borders position that this election dealt would make him double down.
“Unilateral free trade is still free trade.”
That sounds beyond counterintuitive.
This could be interesting. The last time I checked out an ebook from my county library, the software transferred me the Amazon site for the actual download. It was just like buying the book from Amazon, but no charge. I wonder how this case will affect public libraries? It seems they use the same system of buying a number of copies, because they will sometimes 'not have a copy', and put me on a wait list for a digital copy. This could be aggravating, because I live within yards of the county line, and the nearest physical library is 23 miles away.
How insane are democrats? John Hinckley Jr begs democrats to stop asking him to shoot Trump.
https://www.nbc4i.com/news/national/im-a-man-of-peace-now-john-hinckley-jr-responds-to-calls-for-trump-assassination/
It can't be. MAGA are the violent ones.
Have you heard of this new 'MATGA' trend? Liberal women are posting videos on how to make Aqua Tofana, a 17-century Italian poison used by women to kill over 600 men.
https://twitter.com/ImMeme0/status/1855428375734841575
MATGA? Make America Trans Gender Again? Yep, sounds like democrats.
Is Pedo Jeffy their leader?
Edit: I read the link. The democrats are even more unhinged (or are they now so deranged they’re full on ‘unHihnged?) than I gave them credit for. Maybe these MATGAs should be put in insane asylums.
When I say they’re evil I’m not resorting to hyperbole. This is everything they accused the J6er’s of multiplied by 1000.
You’re absolutely right. I’m not exaggerating when I say the democrats are an existential threat to American citizens. The democrats truly are soulless, bloodthirsty monsters, and have their party must be destroyed.
I see no version of events where our constitutional republic survives without decisively dealing with them. You have a similar existential crisis ahead of you in Canada with Trudeau and his disciples.
Fortunately for us you could fit most of Trudeau’s disciples in a McDonald’s bathroom stall with room to spare. Poilievre would probably have to rape a puppy on the floor of the House, in order to earn the same amount of hate Trudeau is getting right now.
Our only fear is Trudeau refusing to call a federal election for some demented reason.
There are thousands of these videos out there. Gotta keep an eye on restaurants and who handles your food and drinks I guess.
Or just make Democrats unemployable. They’re completely untrustworthy.
There was this piece of shit Democratic Party shill that threatened to burn RMac’s steak.
“the 4B movement, refusing to marry, have children, date, or have relationships with men. They started wearing blue bracelets and getting blue heart tattoos to recognize each other in public as Harris voters, and this soon evolved into the MATGA movement.”
Progressive women have a vastly overinflated sense of their own self worth. They’re going to have very miserable lives if they don’t start to develop reasonable expectations.
RELATED:
Joy Reed/MSNBC are now advising democrats to avoid their Trump supporting relatives during the holidays.
Coincidentally, a top indicator of cult like behavior is to try and isolate your adherents from their family
Progressive women have a vastly overinflated sense of their own self worth. They’re going to have very miserable lives if they don’t start to develop reasonable expectations.
I wonder how they became this way.
I wonder why so many women know about an obscure medieval poison-maker from 400 years ago. Is she some sort of feminist / gender studies icon who is lionized in our university curriculum?
What an arrogant, elitist cunt. Time to cancel her and all her fellow travelers. Destroy them all.
These the same ones cutting the hair off their heads?
And getting blue heart tattoos, apparently.
Should convince them that only true Trump haters get that tattoo on their neck.
Move the library out of the US.
No other country has the right combination of Internet connectivity and protection of rights.
No other country provides civil protections for good faith screening and blocking of offensive material.
Like Ukraine, it’s time to accept the Democratic Party’s main purpose is money laundering
Kamala Harris's campaign ends $20 million in debt, after raising over $1 billion, Politico bureau chief reports.
I’m sure she would have done a better job with the country’s finances.
Only $20 million debt compared to a $1 billion budget? I'm actually thinking that's not bad.
What?! It was a flawless campaign. Queen Latifah endorsed her!
Hopefully we have learned the lesson that celebrity endorsements of politicians are worthless.
Apparently Trump offered to pay it.
https://twitter.com/EricLDaugh/status/1855269671554941384
Total troll move on Trump's part.
If he's serious, even just to troll, I wonder if it would be a campaign finance law violation.
They might finally get to lock him up! Walls closing in!
Kinda hilarious that Trump might have money left over given that he was having to spend a large percentage on covering his legal expenses. Fortunately, those court cases were basically campaign events for him.
Everything the democrat filth threw at him just made him more popular.
Including 5.56 NATO rounds.
Oh, that's beautiful.
and its a chefs kiss after how much the DNC machine and MSM celebrated them collectively using lawfare to bankrupt the man.
Fuck. Every. One. Of. Them
"collectively using lawfare to bankrupt the man"
Really, these people need to be investigated, tried and punished in a manner that is so extraordinarily severe that no administration ever thinks of attempting this ever again.
There’s going to be an independent audit of their finances once the FEC filings become available. Hopefully a bunch of democrats end up in prison, where they belong, for this.
Its no coincidence their support for unlimited money and no end to the war was paramount, Biden's son being on an energy board, impeaching Trump for looking into Biden's involvement with the Ukraine prosecutor...
Its not even a secret, they are doing it in plain sight.
Also, re: Kamala. Its been said a lot, but leave it to a chick to be given the largest budget in the history of budgets, and still go over and into debt.
Biden’s internal polling had Trump winning 400 electoral votes, former-Obama official says
I wonder if that was close to the true final tally with Harris once the margin of fraud was removed? This demonstrates how thoroughly the power of the DNC/Hollywood/Media complex has been weakened.
The only people still being fooled are the ones that want to be fooled.
See. Harris outperformed predictions due to her flawless campaign!
I was happy to see that Arizona is going for Trump and his final tally is 312. The Arizona Dems must've put all their efforts into keeping Kari Lake out instead.
Let’s hope that ultimately fails. At least this time the RNC is helping her.
California seems like it's to find a way to harvest enough ballots to give Kamala the populate vote win. Their % of counted votes has actually gone down over the past day and a half-it was up at 68% at one point and now it’s 66%.
Almost every state has at least 95% reported. Utah, Arizona, Oregon, and Maryland are around 87%. Alaska, perhaps understandably, is only reporting 76.5%.
Now, some state is always going to finish last, and if they were all getting done within a few days it wouldn’t be a big deal who was trailing. But here’s the state that some people boast has the world’s 5th largest economy, and they’re behind Alaska in tallying votes by a significant margin.
Hoping the first law passed is to stop this late ballot counting shit.
I’m hoping Trump declares martial law in California and New York.
Under no circumstances should he return to New York for sentencing. He will not survive.
You'd think that such an overwhelming mandate from the nation would give them pause from their corrupt lawfare, but they're angry and they're frightened of what is coming and this is the only tool they have left to try to delegitimize him.
This will help destroy them. Which must happen. Feral Marxists cannot be allowed to survive.
There have been a lot of oddities of late fixed and focused ballot curing. ACLU even tried extending the curing process.
And as mentioned above, pima county, heavy democrat, had shifting vote totals the last few days. Total vote count going up and down with zero explanation.
Oh, there's an explanation all right.
That would have been an interesting test of my theory that 200 Electoral Votes is the absolute rock bottom a Democrat can win nowadays (after the 1980s).
I wouldn’t lock myself into that. Trump is, as you’ve noted, especially toxic to some people, and yet he closed margins in a ton of traditionally blue states. Under the right circumstances, with another crappy democrat candidate running against an inspired Republican, the democrats might could lose New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, and Virginia. Maybe even Minnesota. That would put them down to 185, as an absolute floor.
A Republican beating a Democrat almost as mercilessly as Obama trounced McCain.
I don't expect to see that in my lifetime. Then again I did only give Trump 30 - 40% odds of beating Harris ........
I think it's possible.
* Four more years and Trump doesn't fulfill any predictions of dictatorship, military coup, or lawfare against Dems. Inflation tames, and the deficit actually looks on track to getting a lot lower.
* The Dems continue pounding LGBTQWERTY, wokism, transgender mutilation, CRT/DEI, welfare and forced refugee immigration, and all the rest of the nonsense that pissed off voters.
* Vance runs. He's a shoo in.
I don't know how likely it is, but I do think it's plausible.
I don't know if Vance is really that great of a candidate untethered to Trump. DeSantis might make a stronger candidate. Though I'd honestly love it if Rand Paul made a run.
What Trump would need to do in order to hold this margin for the '28 candidate is to deliver promises of peace deals in Ukraine and Israel, while avoiding any other major international conflicts, like China invading Taiwan. More limited use of force against, for instance, Iran, like the strike that killed Soleimani, might fly under the radar. He also needs to win the Remain in Mexico policy fight and score some visible victories on border security. Everyone agrees this is critical.
But if Trump's blanket 10% tariff passes, it's going to hamper him. One of the worst economic bills ever passed was the Smoot-Hawley tariff, which turned the Great Recession into the Great Depression. There's plenty of ways he could stumble and end up wrecking the economy if he pursues this. He needs to crater federal spending and cut the corporate tax rate, and finish the job of deregulation he started in his first administration.
If he pulls all of this off, the GOP could have another major sweep in 2028.
I like DeSantis but he's really awkward, whereas Vance manages to sound like an everyman even when being super smooth.
Do you live in a dark blue area? I live in a light blue area (in a red state), and I saw young black men wearing MAGA hats and pro-Trump graffiti in the weeks leading up to the election. Trump won my state by a large margin. But it hasn't always been so red:
2008: 0.1% McCain
2012: 9.4% Romney
2016: 18.7% Trump
2020: 15.4% Trump
2024: 18.5% Trump
Absent cheating, I was always convinced he would win. Against Biden or Harris. The last four years have been a real shit sandwich to an overwhelming majority of American citizens. Things are bad enough that a lot of people, who didn’t particularly like Trump as a person had their self preservation instincts kick in and voted for the guy who already had a good track record.
And it’s not like Trump is coming over their homes for dinner, so who gives a shit if they don’t like his persona? People are more concerned about not getting murdered, keeping a roof over their heads, and feeding their families.
In my adult life, whoever has been in the Oval Office hasn’t mattered as much as who was controlling Congress’ purse strings. So Trump was my “fuck you” vote and Cruz and whoever the Republican Rep was were my “Please God, no more Democrat led Congress” votes.
It was 100% self preservation and preservation of my two small businesses.
Had Kamala’s coup against Biden been unsuccessful, team D might have seen fewer than the 226 EC votes Cackles managed to scrape together.
Sarckles’ internal polling had Chase receiving 400 electoral votes prior to the bombshell October surprise.
Sarc spoiled the whole thing by outing the poor guy.
Wait, what???
Chase was gay?
Probably still is.
So it isn't just a phase?
Once you go gay, that’s how you’ll stay?
South Carolina prof decries GOP as party of the ‘uneducated’ who hold America ‘hostage’
”There is a reason why educated people vote blue. What we’re seeing is the uneducated population of America holding the rest of the country hostage.
This is why there’s such a push to weaken education, ban books, and outlaw the teaching of Black history by the Republican Party”
University credentialed people vote blue, not the uneducated.
She doesn’t understand the difference in the level of education between a gaslit master’s degree holding gender studies major, and a man who spent four to five years in apprenticeship and college earning a Certified Robotic Arc Welding or Electrical Engineering ticket.
The former learns occult nonsense of no practical value, while the latter has to know the physics and materials science for billion dollar structures supporting the lives of millions of people. Even a modern farmer operating millions of dollars worth of highly technical equipment has to be more educated than any humanities major.
Traditionally the word “education” means the process of receiving systematic instruction at a school or university. Plumbers are not generally considered to be “educated” because they learn on the job, not in a classroom.
My argument against that person would not be over the definition of education. Rather I’d point out that STEM majors aren’t taught progressive propaganda by virtue of their field of study being objective not subjective, and people who do work associated with those majors are much more right-leaning than people who studied anything else. There's probably some self-selection there as well, being that people seeking out STEM educations are likely less emotional than their liberal arts counterparts.
So the difference isn’t education, it’s field of study. People who go to college to learn practical things lean right, while the rest lean left.
Since that was a reasonable and thoughtful response I'll give one back.
I'm not sure about how each state works but every trades ticket up here requires at least 144 hours of classroom instruction per year. For an electrical engineering ticket you need at least 240 hrs/year of classroom instruction, which I think meets anyone's definition of education.
Combine that with all the practicum in the field and you have someone who spends far more time on far more complicated fields than say, someone with an anthropology degree like me.
The disdain in academia for the proles educational attainment is rooted in the paradigms of 100 years ago.
Once again, trades don't fall under the traditional definition of education.
The reason why people with university degrees tend to vote blue is not that they've got an education, it's because professors take any topic with the slightest bit of subjectivity and give it a progressive spin.
Well I won't argue with that.
That’s actually a good observation.
The reason is that you get more of hat you subsidize, and when government subsidizes both science and students, colleges go fishing for more and more marginal students, and more and more marginal science, a marginal marriage made in hell. All these researchers and students know they are second rate at best, and take it by throwing their weight around and making shit up that sounds impressive to the Tik Tok generation.
Stop government funding of science. Stop government funding and control of K-12. Then all this woke nonsense will disappear, but it will take a generation. The best fun will be watching all the woke unemployed competing for the shrinking woke job market.
We have a lot of Engineering Students as interns. It used to be that their main worry were their core classes. Now they worry about offending an instructor when they don't parrot back the information in some of their "required" electives.
Rather I’d point out that STEM majors aren’t taught progressive propaganda by virtue of their field of study being objective not subjective
So that would be *looks at list* you and Nick Gillespie who still think this hasn't crept into the STEM fields...
Or that Eng degrees usually require 6-8 classes in gen ed requirements. Usually 3 in a "humanities" course.
Your link is about studying why STEM majors, and employees in STEM fields, are overwhelmingly white and male. It’s not about working racial equality into the physics curriculum.
Gee, I wonder *thinks hard* if there's something going on in STEM fields where the top of the profession isn't being chosen for its capabilities and quality of research, but for the color of their skin, what they do in the bedroom or what their genitalia looks like. I mean, I know it's just crazy-pants wild speculation, but one wonders if 'other ways of knowing, other ways of doing' has in fact made it into the STEM curriculum?
The following uses a tremendous amount of words and syllables which loosely translates to: "lower the standards":
But sure, let's all agree to disagree and just do it their way and then wonder why everything everywhere sucks.
But sure, Nick, it's just all about pronouns.
WTF is wrong with you? None of that is about "lowering standards".
For example:
Would you care to tell us all what precisely is "lowering standards" about a professor setting office hours for times where students are more likely to be available, via the results of a pre-semester survey?
I don't know about you, but when I went to college, I definitely had a few professors who appeared to set office hours deliberately so as to minimize the chances of interacting with students. Like, 7am Monday or 4pm Friday. It was a dick move then and it is still a dick move now.
That whole article is about how to still have high academic standards without unintentionally (or intentionally) creating other barriers to success that are unrelated to the academic standards.
This is a bad example.
A well educated populace is necessary to sustain a constitutional republic that values liberty. You won't get people who will vote for free markets and free minds if they don't first learn about Hobbes, Locke (AND Rousseau), Adam Smith, Paine, Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, Bastiat, etc., etc. If you ONLY learn "practical knowledge" (the way you define it) you are likely to be easily beguiled by the next demagogue who comes along promising free shit and blaming foreigners for all your problems.
You won't find very many educators teaching the folks you listed. That's something people have to seek out on their own.
You may not find that curriculum but what you will get, from a well-rounded liberal education (small-l), is the habits of mind that creates curiosity and inquisitiveness to seek out knowledge and study an issue rigorously, instead of just believing at face value what your friends tell you on Facebook.
Right. Except most universities don’t give students a well-rounded liberal education. They give them a one-side progressive education.
Have to wonder if this I’d a fake pivot to the middle.
My guess is you go back to your normal partisan takes Jan 20 2025.
It is an example of the vast majority of my posts that you ignore and pretend don’t exist because they conflicts with the voices in your head. Rather you cherry pick comments out of context, or take comments that are obviously hyperbole and claim that that’s what I really mean all the time. Basically you do all the bad faith stuff that, when done to your Lord and Savior Trump, makes you scream and cry and bitch and moan and complain and attack. Meanwhile you go around accusing people of hypocrisy. Look in the mirror, fuckhead. lol
Lol. No. It isn’t. If this was the VAST majority of the posts we could play thread post roulette and choose random posts from you by selecting randomm comment threads and see what they are about. Want to play?
You really are a pathological liar aren’t you.
Choose the time frame buddy.
Why don’t you look up all the “Jesse will never bookmark this” comments?
Oh yeah, they contradict the voices in your head they don’t exist.
You are not threatening at all. You want to dig up comments and show off your skills at misinterpretation and cherry picking out of context, feel free. All you can do is prove me right.
You said, and I quote, VAST MAJORITY.
Are those another 2 words you don’t understand?
Give me any random week. I'll go look up your posts. Cmon, you can prove me wrong buddy.
> ... instead of just believing at face value what your friends tell you on Facebook.
Unfortunately, however, the
publicgovernmenteducationindoctrination system has been wildly successful in indoctrinating three-ish generations of "students" not to question authority. The acquiescence of the general public, and in particular some's militant adherence to, the COVID response(s) is a glaring demonstration of the success of that indoctrination.A well educated populace is necessary to sustain a constitutional republic that values liberty.
Only if universal suffrage applies.
Rousseau was a proto-Marxist and a prick, besides. One of his main themes was that private property was the real problem. And The Social Contract is a collectivist screed. He’s only useful as an example of how people ought not to reason.
Yes, this, while he had ? 7 or 8 kids by 4 or 5 mothers! Twat a STELLAR example for the rest of us?!
(WHERE is Spermy Daniels??!? Bring her MY way!!! I want to be JUST like Big Daddy Dear Leader!!!)
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01916599.2014.965495#:~:text=Most%20scholars%20offer%20the%20winter,'Enfants%20de%20Rousseau'%2C%20in
Rousseau's Discarded Children: The Panoply of Excuses and the Question of Hypocrisy
TBF, it’s important to read the assholes that subscribe to shitty ideologies so you can better understand why they’re so fucking stupid.
Oh fuck off with your pseudo-aristocratic nonsense.
Nobody needs to read Locke or Hobbes to understand how free markets and societies work and why censorship is bad. It's practically innate. In fact you need to gaslight yourself with Foucault and Marx in order to think otherwise. In addition, many of the men you listed have theories that contradict each other to some extent, leaving the reader to choose which he favors.
This arrogant and utterly unjustified idea that people who disagree with you are some sort of "beguiled" simpletons, is proof positive of your own ignorance as to the structure of the 21st century body plebian. You constantly view them a lumpenproles rather than electrical and structural engineers, pharmacists, broilermakers, real estate agents, businessmen, etc. that compose the modern working class.
Like every other Marxist or Keynesian you view them as 19th century dirt farmers and factory drones in need of the tender hands of their betters for guidance.
So the professor is right then. I write in defense of a standard classical liberal education and you don't even want that. You really do want people to be uneducated and ignorant. A classical liberal education is "aristocratic" according to you.
Nobody needs to read Locke or Hobbes to understand how free markets and societies work and why censorship is bad. It’s practically innate.
Sure, if you take liberty for granted.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/07/20/most-americans-favor-restrictions-on-false-information-violent-content-online/
So according to this poll, 55% of Americans favor government censorship of false content on social media. That includes 70% of Democrats and 39% of Republicans. If it's so obvious, why are so many Americans in favor of censorship? "Oh, it's because they've been indoctrinated at universities!" Does that include Abbott and DeSantis, who favor government censorship of social media when it suits them? Does that include Trump, who files lawsuits against media companies when they say mean things about him? (I think that is called 'chilling effect'.)
In addition, many of the men you listed have theories that contradict each other to some extent, leaving the reader to choose which he favors.
You're right! So maybe part of this classical liberal education should include critical thinking skills, so that people can assess and judge arguments on their own merits. Or is that too 'aristocratic' for the working class to have critical thinking skills?
This arrogant and utterly unjustified idea that people who disagree with you are some sort of “beguiled” simpletons
No, sometimes people who agree with me are also beguiled by demagogues. I don't claim that the reason for people to disagree with me is because they are 'beguiled'. That is your strawman argument. I do claim that if a person lacks critical thinking skills, lacks the habits of mind that are associated with a classical liberal education, then that person is more likely to be snookered by demagogues, regardless of how they vote in an election.
You constantly view them a lumpenproles rather than electrical and structural engineers, pharmacists, broilermakers, real estate agents, businessmen, etc. that compose the modern working class.
No, I don't view them as lumpenproles. But if they are the petit bourgeouisie (if we're gong to start using Marxist terminology), then we don't need this complicated immigration control system that acts as a protection racket for American labor to fill no-skill jobs that could be performed by illiterate Guatemalan peasants, right? Let the Guatemalans have the shitty factory jobs and let the Americans have the real estate and engineering jobs. Sound good to you?
Oh but wait, your team likes to try to have it both ways. The Real Muricans are both hardworking bootstrapping entrepreneurs who just need the government to get out of their way, but they are also poor downtrodden unskilled laborers whose jobs were shipped to China and who have to compete with all those illegulz for jobs and it's not fair and why doesn't government step in and stop China and the illegulz from taking those shitty jobs that rightfully belong to Americans.
It's actually your team which tends to view the American working class as analogous to a 19th century proletariat, who needs the guiding hand of a strong and wise leader, like Trump, who will institute tariffs and trade restrictions and border restrictions and otherwise rearrange the entire domestic economy so as to benefit the kid who slept through highschool, didn't learn a thing, and now has to compete with illiterate Guatemalans for a job and that's not fair. Because Trump just loves America so damn much.
You really do want people to be uneducated and ignorant.
They aren’t uneducated and ignorant, you fascist fuck, not by a long shot. A humanities degree doesn’t make you more learned than an electrical engineer by any metric in the 21st century.
It’s hard not to see your argument for what it is: a mask, designed to project concern for liberty while dismissing anyone who doesn’t match your elitist ideal. You hide behind words like “classical liberal education” and “critical thinking” not as values in themselves but as exclusive gates, drawn high around an elite tower where you think the “real” thinkers belong. But in doing so, you show a disdain for the very concept of democracy, cloaking it in shallow respect while you argue for aristocratic rule in all but name.
You tout education as a weapon, implying that those without certain credentials—or who don’t align with specific ideologies—are unfit to think independently. But critical thinking isn’t confined to the university lecture hall, nor is understanding of freedom and rights limited to those who have read Hobbes or Locke. You imply that the lack of this “proper” education leaves people vulnerable to manipulation, yet by dismissing their views and voices, you reveal your true agenda: to strip them of power in shaping the society they are part of.
Your portrayal of the American working class is likewise loaded with contempt. You assume they’re either lazy dreamers or blind pawns in a larger game, downplaying their role as the very backbone of our economy, society, and communities. You sneer at their struggles for fair jobs and decent wages, writing them off as hypocrisy, all while advocating policies that would undercut their livelihood in favor of unrestricted markets that benefit only the few. You deride the notion of protecting jobs as some “protection racket,” even as you callously push for low-wage, precarious work for immigrants in a way that benefits nobody but profit margins and your selective ideal of who deserves opportunity.
You claim to defend the free market, yet support elitism that betrays its fundamental premise: that society is best served when each individual has a fair and equal chance to participate. You argue that the working class must step aside in favor of “illiterate peasants” from abroad for “shitty factory jobs,” reducing people—whether immigrants or native-born workers—to tools in an economic scheme that serves your vision of efficiency. This is no “freedom” but a distortion of liberty that serves to divide and conquer, hiding aristocratic snobbery behind a façade of intellectual respectability.
What you’re actually calling for is not a society of critical thinkers or a land of liberty, but a country where only those who fit your elitist gentry-class intellectual mold get to rule. You speak of liberty but ultimately reject actual democracy, deriding it as populism and rejecting the voices of the very people that make up the American nation.
TLDR: You’re fascist trash.
Right. That's why the educated woke support freedom of speech, free markets, and free minds.
But when that education is Marxist propaganda, hatred of markets and critical race/sex/gender studies then that's actually negative educational value you dumb marxist cunt.
You’re holding up a poster of higher education that was already on the way out when I was getting my bachelor’s 20 years ago.
Edit: and because of that, many people are seeking out alternative means to get the kind of education you are talking about. But that takes power away from the “experts”, hence screeds like this professor’s.
This is why there’s such a push to weaken education, ban books, and outlaw the teaching of Black history by the Republican Party
Weaken education how? What books have been 'banned'? What moves have Republicans made to outlaw teaching 'black history', whatever that is?
Well, they 'weaken education' with the idea that people should be able to choose where to send their kids.
No books have been 'banned' (well, other than the actual American banned book list that nobody seems to be clamoring to upend. Certainly Democrats writ large are not trying to unban jack shit) but the idea that sex books should be in the school library is...interesting and also dovetails nicely into the first point of choosing where to send your kid.
'Black history' is a fraction of history, and is taught at every school in the country as far as I'm aware. Things like MLK and the civil rights era, not to mention the Civil War or Reconstruction. It's always been taught in high school history as long as I've been alive. Perhaps what they mean by 'black history' is revisionist history which has notably been pushed by race hustlers as of late.
Race hustlers gotta race hustle. Otherwise the grift dies out. And it’s ultimately about the grift.
What books have been ‘banned’?
Playboy and Hustler, for two examples.
What books have been ‘banned’?
Don't be stupid. By your standard, the Hunter Biden Laptop story was never 'banned' because one could always go look it up on the NY Post website.
It was banned on Facebook and Twitter because the FBI illegally leaned on those platforms to do it you fascist fuck, and I know that you know that.
The FBI used critical thinking to arrive at a shared collective reasoning to protect the regime. Hence their actions to coerce popular western social media to kill the story.
My daughter’s library doesn’t have the entire Harry Potter series. Are those books banned, or is it just that they aren’t stocked in an elementary school library?
This is the single greatest action of the new Trump Administration.
This is a very, very good sign…
Trump announces former WH officials Nikki Haley, Mike Pompeo will not be in his next administration
All that winning plus Cocaine Mitch McConnell is leaving in January (although he can do a lot of damage between now and then).
Reason/Cato/Koch neocons hardest hit. But seriously I voted for Trump primarily because I believed he would kick out the warmongers and it looks like I was right. He's already negotiating an end to the bloodbath in Ukraine and maybe a deal in the Middle East. Trump doesn't like war and I can't think of anything more libertarian than that.
I shall dub it "Buttplugistan". Sure am glad ol' Saddam Hussein isn't there anymore and that so many died for its "freedom".
Iraq will lower the legal age of consent from 18 to to 9, allowing men to marry young children.
Why are not fathers of teen girls threatening violent revolt over this?
A state legislator in the U.S. who proposed lowering the age of consent to thirteen, even as a joke, would be run out of the state!
It is what muhammad would do.
^Probably this.
Muhammad was 51 and his last wife Aisha was 7 when he married her, but he waited until she was 9 to consummate the marriage.
Sure glad we spread democracy over there.
Are we sure this isn't what that is?
This would've been a bully fucking move on the part of the Taliban after Dementia Joe screwed up Kabul.
Dementia Joe and The West: Respect Wahmen!
Taliban: OK, the age of consent is now 9.
More winning. JFree hardest hit.
Woman Fired For Refusing Covid Vaccine Wins Record $12 Million
Glorious. Now let's do the Biden Admin, every blue state, every blue city, every tech company, etc.
Uh oh. Jeffsarc is going to start screaming muh private companies rights > individual rights now.
We already accepted anti-discrimination laws.
The employer said "Your Body, My Choice" and lost.
This decision is a problem but it's not the root problem. The root problem is that we've let copyright get insanely out of control. Return the copyright length to the original 14 years and most of these problems would go away.
And, yeah, if you can't make your money in the first 14 years, it wasn't that novel in the first place.
Passes the "sounds about right" test with me. Zero copyright protection is anarcho-libertarian nonsense. The latest pair of Jordans aren't free just because Nike has a website. And they're every bit as much intellectual property as they are shoes.
But forever copyright is equally bullshit, particularly for all of the obscure/out-of-print type of stuff. Take your 14 years of residuals, enjoy, then produce something new or starve.
That such a change would probably bankrupt Disney is a nice side benefit.
No. Intellectual property is the oxymoron, requiring carveouts within carveouts because it is non-intuitive. People invented, wrote, composed, painted, and innovated quite well before patents and copyrights. Why are copyrights inheritable, but not patents? Why are copyrights inheritable at all, let alone in such a mickey mouse fashion? Why should a copyright given at age 20 expire 70 years later when the author dies the next day, while if he lives to 100, it expires 150 years later? If they are inheritable at all, as if they were real property, why expire at all?
Any system with such a sloppy design tells me it is garbage.
I think Copyright originally only included technical information and non fiction, all novels and plays and music were open
Piano player rolls were not originally copyrightable. I believe movies and photographs were not at first. Don't know about records.
Just shows what an arbitrary and capricious concept intellectual property is.
The popularity of piano rolls, and the difficulty of profiting from them for music publishers, led to the odious concept of "public performance rights", which are an obvious infringement against freedom of expression.
We can largely thank Disney corporation for the perversion of copyright. Life of the author plus 70 years after that benefits whom, exactly?
Victor Hugo burns in Hell for his role in creating the concept of copyrighting.
I once tried working up a patent scheme with variable lengths. I don't remember the details now.
* The patent issue includes royalties and starts a clock.
* The first copycat proves the patent describes the patent is complete, and stops the clock. The copycat can start production immediately using the published royalty schedule.
* The patent is valid for some multiple of that interval.
* If there is no copycat within a year, the patent expires.
The patent holder wants the first copycat as late as possible to have a longer patent term. But they also want a copycat, or they have no patent.
The copycats want as simple a patent as possible to keep the patent term as short as possible. They also want to be first so they have a lead on all other copycats.
The patent's royalty schedule prevents surprises and fake negotiations. The patent holder wants it as high as possible, but too high deters copycats and may end up with the patent expiring.
There are parameters which legislators would abuse -- the expiration time, and the term multiplier.
It was an interesting exercise before I gave up trying to justify intellectual property protection.
Democrats complained their biggest fear would be Trump refusing to concede the 2024 Election
He won in a landslide.
The Pennsylvania Senate race has also been called, but Bob Casey still refuses to concede.
Where is the Democrat Party calling him a ‘threat to Democracy’?
Remember the blue state 'compact' to give all their electoral college votes to the popular vote winner?
Neither do they.
(but if they did, Trump wins all but Virginia)
Yeah, my state is among that oh-so-virtuous set. I’m sure our Democrat governor and all of his cronies will do everything in their power to make sure our electoral votes go to the winner of the popular vote. Because democracy.
That compact isn't active yet. It only becomes active once there are enough states signed up to it such that the total of their electoral votes exceeds 270 (thus ensuring that the winner of the popular vote wins a majority of the Electoral College).
Completely true. I was being hyperbolic, intentionally but apparently not successfully. My point was I would like to see Team Blue ever once stick with their bullshit position when it doesn't benefit them.
Republicans suck. Hard. What makes Democrats so much worse is their inability to ever forsee that their endless overreach will come back to bite them.
"Fun fact: states decide how to apportion their electors. They could give them all to, say, whichever candidate won majority of counties!"
- Chris Hayes
They think the memory holing worked. They spent all of 2016 denying elections, Russiagate, 'illegitimate president'. Hillary to this day says it. Stacy Abrams still hasn't conceded her multiple lost elections.
INSURRECTION!
Did Bob Casey file 60 court cases, lose them all, and still insist he won? Did Bob Casey concoct an illegal and unconstitutional scheme to remain in power despite losing? If and when those things happen then feel free to call him a 'threat to democracy'.
Did Bob Casey just get elected in a landslide despite endless media collusion and getting outspent by 3X? No, he didn't.
Didn't vote for him, don't particularly like him, but I am so glad ♤this side lost.
By the way, Casey is currently losing by about 40,000 votes, out of over 6 million cast. If Trump or anyone else were trailing by ~0.5% I think they would be entitled to ask for a recount before conceding. The problem arises when the recounts and the audits and the lawsuits aren't enough. THAT is when the candidate wanders into "threat to democracy" territory.
No, democrats do that when they rig vote counts like they did in 2020 through a variety of activities. Including judge shopping to get an activist who renders illegal 11th hour rulings that allow things like ballot harvesting and extending the voting period to favor democrats. Which enables all your shitty fraudulent democrat election behavior.
I don't call Jeff evil for nothing.
The local Pizza Hut calls him their favorite customer.
"like they did in 2020 through a variety of activities. Including judge shopping to get an activist who renders illegal 11th hour rulings that allow things like ballot harvesting and extending the voting period to favor democrats. "
Those bomb threats to multiple very heavy D counties, in multiple swing states, that were resolved quickly but resulted in them allowing extended voting hours...
Who knows where those calls came from. But very sus.
Wait, Trumpers want to complain about 'judge-shopping'? Why don't they try to convince us why so many of the cases that they favor just so happen to start in the Amarillo federal court.
https://www.texastribune.org/2024/04/11/judge-shopping-texas-amarillo-kasmaryk-senate/
So, the recent case in which Trump sued CBS because of 60 Minutes... where did his team decide to initiate the lawsuit? That's right, Amarillo. Huh. I wonder why.
Trump didn't file 60 cases.
Touche, it was only 58 cases. Filed by him, or his campaign, or by allies to his campaign. You must be happy.
Which were completely reasonable as those 18 million missing Democrat voters testify.
What was illegal about the scheme?
I do know that labeling the source of the funding of the Steele dossier as "legal expenses" was a crime.
I do know that forging evidence to present to a FISA court was a crime.
It was a violation of the Electoral Count Act.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/21/politics/read-eastman-memo/index.html
When he [Pence] gets to Arizona, he announces that he has multiple slates of electors, and so is going to defer decision on that until finishing the other States. This would be the first break with the procedure set out in the Act.
Their plan was to knowingly violate the law and let Pence choose the winner of the election. It was completely wrong and no true patriot should be defending such a scheme.
Incidentally, ML, now that Trump's safely won and it won't change any votes, can you now answer honestly whether you think Trump told a lie in the first debate?
No. Of course he didn't you purposefully deceitful piece of shit.
In fact you are the one that continues to lie despite being aware that Import Brokers are a very prevalent thing.
Anyone who has shopped on the business and corporate versions of Amazon, Alibaba, Wayfair or Temu, knows that, like on them, overseas sellers have product depots in North America for everything from equipment to perishable goods.
One. More. Time.
Trump said:
He isn’t talking about fucking import brokers. He is talking about COUNTRIES. Trump thinks that tariffs are paid by foreign governments. That is false, and he is smart enough to know better. He deliberately lied to the audience by suggesting that his tariff scheme isn’t really a tax increase on them.
This is why you are completely dishonest. Even when it is crystal clear and plainly obvious that Trump lied, you still invent a bullshit rationalization to try to defend him. This is why, if anyone is a supposed ’50-center’ around here, it’s you and Jesse. You will push any narrative and any lie that helps your team no matter how false or disingenuous it is. You’re a gaslighting snake and an intellectual whore. You have completely pimped out your mind to Team Red.
Oh for fucks sake, you deceitful fifty-centing trash. If you don't know what an import broker does, look it up.
Your argument here is filled with deliberate distortions, transparent deflections, and the same tired tactics that you’ve used to obscure rather than clarify. You know full well that Trump was addressing the unfair trade practices of China's corporations and not solely the government of China itself, which is all you. Yet you continue to twist his words, implying he was calling for tariffs to be placed directly on the state itself rather than its goods—a convenient misrepresentation that you use to smear others for supposed dishonesty while failing to engage with the actual content of what he said.
It’s rich that you accuse others of being “intellectual whores” while aligning yourself with political sponsors who pay you to spread disinformation. Your words are not grounded in genuine conviction but in the profitable game of deceit you play, one that advances a narrative without regard for truth or integrity. You accuse others of gaslighting, but it’s you who obscures the actual issues, hoping to confuse your audience and castigate anyone who doesn’t conform to your skewed version of events.
And let’s call out the core of your argument here: the fallacy of personal attack over substance. Rather than engage with the policy implications or even the reality of trade imbalances, you resort to baseless slander, calling me and Jesse “intellectual whores” and throwing around insults to distract from your lack of actual evidence. Your hatred drives you, not reason, and your fascist tendencies reveal themselves as you gleefully wish harm on those who simply disagree with you.
If anyone here has betrayed principles, it’s you—advocating for an ideology that prioritizes control and deceit over open dialogue and truth. You can continue to prop up your lies, but it’s clear that this isn’t about defending democracy or fair trade practices. It’s about enforcing a narrative that aligns with your sponsors and seeking power at the expense of honesty and the well-being of others. But know this: the truth has a way of prevailing, no matter how many times you try to bury it under your warped propaganda.
Trump really needs to sue those States to force their hand and attack their own brainchild. Though I think there is a caveat that they need a total of 270 committed for it to apply.
If anything, THIS is what matters:
"Copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus 70 years. If the work was a joint work, the term lasts for 70 years after the last surviving author's death."
The grandchildren of ANY copyright holders shouldn't be getting new money at all. If grandpa wants to leave some to them, that's his business. This is not for authors/creators - it's for corporations who hold rights, like Disney.
So some forms of property are more equal than others?
Should you have to pay the descendants of Ug the Caveman for use of his wheel design?
If "intellectual property" exists, why WOULDN'T you have to pay Ug's estate? What other property right expires?
If intellectual property is inheritable, why does it expire 70 years after inheritance? No real property does that.
Intellectual property protection is simple, just like real property: don't give it away. Once you do, just like real property, you lose control.
Ug stole his ideas from Tesla like Edison did.
Damn it, I almost spit my evening coffee all over my phone when I read that.
Long Dong says no. You can always be jailed and your assets confiscated instead, the choice is yours. Christian National Socialism in Jesus Christ your Lawerd is nothing if not respectful of an individual's right to choose. So Stand and Deliver!
"Intellectual property" does not exist. Copy"right" protection is a privilege extended by government, not a property right.
You are free to extend your own inventions with a free use license. Don't demand others to do so.
What's funny is the disclosure of intentions for short term monopoly rights has benefited development over all.
In the past inventions and processes were kept held by guilds without disclosure. From the Egyptians to the free masons.
But sure. Stifle increased technological development because you want to take someone's idea without paying them for their work.
You'd have to be a fool to innovate in a country with no intellectual property protections.
As soon as you make your first product, you are out of business since it was reverse engineered and sold by at least 100 competitors that didn't have the same R&D costs by a long shot.
So if you want to make sure that no one ever innovates again, or if they do they are immediately punished, sure just go ahead and trash the entire notion of patents or copyrights. Communists and the Amish are both interested in your newsletter.
And for the abject idiots in our midst, one can believe in copyright and patent protection while still disagreeing with how they are handled today. The system has been abused for nearly 100 years and needs reforming as it's become a vehicle for politically connected corporations to cut their competition off at the knee's by restricting and eliminating fair or free use long after the original inventor or author has died. In fact, it lasts for another lifetime after the original author has died. That is absurd at face value.
Yet people managed to innovate the industrial revolution into existence without IP protection. Music, art, literature, all existed before IP protection. How could they do that? They must have stolen it from somebody else.
Why do some of you always revert to copyright when we are discussing technological IRAD?
We have seen more technological advancement with public disclosure of inventions through patents. Not less.
I see you are entirely unaware that the United States stole the industrial revolution from Britain and told them to get bent when they tried to collect.
Which is a bit ironic since China is doing the same thing to us today.
James Watt delayed steam railroad locomotives for 20 or 30 years protecting his patent, while not paying royalties to Newcomen who he copied. Watt did not know how to make high pressure small boilers and sued everyone who did.
The Wright Brothers delay US aircraft innovation by 15-20 years because (a) they sat back and waited for royalties and orders to pour in, which never happened because they were not improving their designs, and (b) they locked themselves into a patent battle with Glenn Curtiss over roll control. They warped/bent the wingtips, as specified in their patent; he used ailerons, not in their patent. The dispute was only resolved the by the government buying the patent so they could produce airplanes for WW I.
Two solid examples of proclaimed patents delaying innovation.
Patents suck, copyrights suck, intellectual property sucks.
So does people stealing your property. Tangible or intangible.
I think you’re unaware of how many people were working on both boiler engines and flight. Nobody was delayed. What was delayed was making engines and structures lighter for flight, and competitions for most efficient engines for boilers.
Youre not exactly telling the truth here.
extend your own inventions with a free use license. Don’t demand others to do so.
I have made no such demand.
Stifle increased technological development because you want to take someone’s idea without paying them for their work.
I have not suggested that.
Sigh. Okay. Guess your post above doesn't exist. Got it.
Learn to read.
Not all, but imagine many that oppose the protections do not create but instead consume.
Like Sarc and tariffs.
Yes, which is exactly why the entities that brought this lawsuit are all large corporate interests and not a large group of individual authors.
Amusingly, there is a large group of individual artists and writers who are a bit upset at AI companies hoovering up their copyrighted works and using them to make money without a single payment to the creators who trained their models against their wishes.
That the AI case appears to be heading towards 'your copyright doesn't mean squat' whereas this case seemed to have been shot down is...inconsistent.
Seemed...
AI using books is basically it just reading the book
This dead individuals' copyrights--not sloppy-seconds voting-at-gunpoint--is where Australia got something right. Australia, not Disney, lost a generation at Gallipoli. This was in another war over opiate markets in which the USA financed many belligerents before Russia quit--yet never itself was at war against Turkey. Evidently, a lesson from that bad choice and tragic outcome has sunk in. Australian websites offer observations written by British Imperial policeman, son of Deputy Opium Inspector, Second Class, Eric Arthur Blair. (The rest of you can look it up.) https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300011h.html
What's wrong with Opiate markets?
Hank doesn't do the 21st century.
Several Telegram channel owners had opined about how they might shutdown their channels since they could be open to financial damages for others posting copyrighted material. Some of the channels also openly welcomed doing this. I believe the favorite designation for saving then resharing copyright content was called Appleseed.
The House Judiciary orders Jack Smith preserve his records.
What are the odds that he pulls a Hillary Clinton or a J6 Committee on the records instead. I hope a new DOJ makes the rubble bounce on these guys to end all this legal lawlessness and sets a precedent that still scares bureaucrats from pulling that shit 100 years in the future.
Or Mueller special council.
The policy here is similar to the old policy of price discrimination in movies on tangible media. Copies sold for rental cost more than copies sold for home viewing. In the case of books I think any version could legally be circulated. The publisher might sell you a library version with a more durable binding.
Observe that the legal lynch mob is organized by corporate publishers (artificial persons) you can count on a withered hand--not flesh-and-blood individuals who write the stuff, die and are expropriated by legal vultures. Moral of the story: learn legalese as a second language, write your own agreements for THEM to sign. Think of it as organizing your own Libertarian Partisan with one highly-leveraged law-changing spoiler vote. Then vote for yourself, for what YOU want, not for robolooters eager to robo you with a fountain pen.
Trump just announced he'll sign '50 state concealed carry reciprocity'.
If he can get this done, I'll personally donate to get his visage on Mt. Rushmore.
So, setting aside the policy arguments as to the wisdom of copyright, this was an incredibly obvious result as a matter of law. "We made a 100% copy without authorization, which had literally no function except to serve as a substitute for an authorized copy" is not a defense against infringing the right to control the making of copies, it's a confession of infringement.
The difference is that physical books wear out, electronic books don't. Which means a book can be leant out a finite time before another copy must be bought.
But with that said, libraries in general have a very different application of copyright law than other things. It can buy anything and loan it out as part of its business (and they are basically non-profit businesses, charging people either through taxes or a free if they don't live in the tax area) but a TV or radio station can't just buy a copy of a movie or song and play it as much as it wants
This is because libraries largely predate IP laws.
I don't think I have any real point, but it's weird how they go after the IA and Z-library (which cooperates with DMCA requests) but not something like Scribd, which costs money for users.
Um, no.
In most cases (there are, sure, a handful of very specific exceptions), there isn’t anything special about libraries as opposed to anyone else who physically distributes a work, whether a bookstore, a newsstand, a video rental store, a DVD rental kiosk, someone handing a book to a friend, or the like. To violate someone’s exclusive right to make copies (that is what a “copyright”, at the root, is), you have to make a copy. No amount of simply handing around an authorized copy constitutes making an unauthorized copy.
Now, if you are performing a work for the public, that has been seen by Congress since the 1856 Public Performance Amendment as a form of making a copy of the work. After all, there’s the authorized copy that you bought, and now there’s also, however transiently, your performance of it, which can be seen and heard by people separately from the copy you bought. So, that performance (since 1856) requires permission from whomever holds the exclusive legal right to authorize making copies. Broadcasting, when it came along many decades after Congress decided theater troupes were required to get permission to perform copyrighted plays, was then treated as a special case of performance — which is to say, a special case of making copies.
Now, maybe the Founding Fathers would look askance at that sort of extension of what constitutes making copies, but, I expect they’d be able to follow the logic, even if they might decide later Congresses took it too far.
But let’s now go back to what the Internet Archive did here. First, they created unauthorized digital copies of the books. Then, they didn’t actually physically transfer those digital copies — every time they “loaned” the book they made unauthorized copies of the unauthorized copies. After all, during the “loan”, there was still a copy still on the Internet Archive’s hard drives at the same time it was being used by the “borrower”.
You revive one of the Founding Fathers and have them talk about the difference between what a library traditionally does and what the Internet Archive did, and I expect the reaction to be something along the lines of, “Yeah, sure, of course when you buy a book that’s covered by copyright, you can then lend it to someone else, because you aren’t making a copy, and copyright restricts making copies. But, no, you can’t make a duplicate, and then make a duplicate of the first duplicate, to ‘lend’ to someone else; you’d violate the exclusive right to make copies twice.”
Governments and courts seem to have forgotten that they have a jurisdiction that is limited.
A US court has no justification over a digital library in another country.
Best choice for this library would be to scatter its database all over the world.