J.D. Vance Actually Does Understand How Costs Get Passed Along the Supply Chain
Vance says higher energy prices make building houses more costly. What, then, do tariffs on steel and lumber do?

During an otherwise sterling performance in Tuesday night's debate, Sen. J.D. Vance (R–Ohio) made one telling misstep: He admitted that he actually does understand how costs along a supply chain are passed on to consumers.
In response to a question about how to expand the housing supply, Vance argued that part of the solution must be lower energy costs—because those factor into the cost of housing.
"Think about it, if a truck driver is paying 40 percent more for diesel, then the lumber he's delivering to the job site to build the house is also going to become a lot more expensive," Vance said. "If we open up American energy, you will get immediate pricing release relief for American citizens, not by the way, just in housing, but in a whole host of other economic goods too."
That's a good point—and Vance is right that affordable, abundant energy should be a top priority for any presidential administration.
But he should also consider the lumber that's being carried on the truck in his hypothetical example.
If that lumber comes from Canada, it will be subject to 14.5 percent tariffs—tariffs that were hiked from 8 percent to that level earlier this year—that will increase the cost of that load a lot more than slightly higher fuel prices will. The National Association of Home Builders, an industry group, calls those tariffs "a tax on American builders, home buyers, and consumers" and says they directly affect housing affordability.
Building housing also requires steel and aluminum, and lots of other products manufactured from those two materials. Vance's running mate, former President Donald Trump, slapped tariffs on much of America's supply of steel and aluminum (and, in fairness, the Biden administration has kept those tariffs in place). Trump and Vance are campaigning on a plan to hike more tariffs, which would not only increase the cost of buying a house but also filling it with furniture, appliances, and other items.
The results of those policies will be exactly the same as what Vance described in his answer: If tariffs add 14 percent to the price of lumber or 25 percent to the price of steel being delivered to a job site, then the resulting house will be more expensive.
It would have been nice to see the moderators in Tuesday's debate or Vance's opponent, Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz, seize that opportunity to ask Vance whether the tariffs he supports would have the same effect of inflating the price of housing. Unfortunately, neither did—indeed, Walz struggled throughout the debate to land a blow against Vance, with the lone exception being a discussion about the 2020 election.
Separately, Vance praised the Biden administration for continuing many of Trump's tariffs, which he called "the most pro-worker part of the Biden administration." Without tariffs, Vance said, China and other countries would "undercut the wages of American workers unless our country stands up for itself and says you're not accessing our markets, unless you're paying middle class Americans a fair wage."
The contrast is striking: Vance is saying that tariffs are good because they drive up the wages that American workers earn, but he's also eager to reduce the prices of the things, like houses, that those workers build. This is nonsense: You cannot artificially increase the price of inputs—whether labor or raw materials—and simultaneously expect the price of the final product to fall.
As with so much of Vance's candidacy, the really frustrating thing here is that he obviously knows better—he's an Ivy League grad and once had a reputation as a policy wonk. And for just a brief moment on Tuesday night, he let the populist mask of economic illiteracy slip.
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Yes thanks to Vance we have had to give up toast in the Grimsrud household. All we have left are memories.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHptn_3RyYE
Not much steel goes into the typical house.
Look at this guy without central air. Last year I bought 591,330 lbs of coiled steel. That doesn't count any outside fabrication, we use other metal shops to fabricate most of our duct. Doesn't count steel products like grilles and registers or equipment.
Most houses are built using nails, what holds your house together?
Yeah…….. that’s such a huge percentage of the house……….
Do you actually think these statements through before writing them?
An average house has about 400 ponds of nails. That just the nails. Plenty of other things to add.
The average home weighs around 150 tons, so like I said, a minuscule percentage of the house, and the cost is negligible, relative speaking. I’ve seen enough cost breakdowns on both new construction and renovations to know.
Do you put real effort into your nonsense comments, or does it come naturally?
The nails and all the other steel in the house would be subject to tariffs. This would negate smaller saving in energy.
The difference in prices of the in the steel, which is a tiny portion of the cost to begin with, would be negligible relative to the total cost of materials in constructing a home. You would be better off trying this argument on steel frame buildings. Not houses.
Thankfully, tariff-free imports have no rent seekers at the ports that would block those goods from being offloaded during say a dockworker strike wanting higher wages.
They'd probably strike at ports handling "tariff-full" imports, too, dontcha think?
So instead of actually discussing the regulatory costs that dwarf costs of tariffs, it really isn't close, Eric starts screaming tariffs again.
Fuck off you one note moron.
He is an economist, right?
Comms major. But plays one at Reason.
Why do people working at a magazine dedicated to "Free Minds and Free Markets" keep harping on about tariffs? That makes no sense. No sense at all.
Fuck off Dunky.
Simultaneously, he refuses to address the point of those tariffs. The point is to grow and tip the advantage towards domestic production. The point is to disincentivize countries like China from IP theft, currency manipulation, and their own anti-competition policies.
I don't like tariffs either, but naive blind opposition isn't any better.
US manufacturing output has never been higher. The people who claim we don’t manufacture anything are liars, plain and simple. Manufacturing workers in the US are extremely productive compared to their overseas counterparts. That’s a result of capital investment, which we have a lot more of. American manufacturing workers are highly productive with this capital investment (machines), while overseas manufacturing workers are toiling on assembly lines doing repetitive tasks that aren’t very productive.
The Americans programming, operating and maintaining those machines get paid big bucks compared to some guy overseas soldering the same part onto the same board all day long.
Do you really think taxing imports to bring back those jobs is a good thing? I don't.
""US manufacturing output has never been higher.""
Do you think we are at WWII level of production?
Output and employment are not the same. Manufacturing employment peaked in 1979. Since then it has gone down, but output has gone up. That’s because we’ve got more productive people operating capital intensive machines that produce tons of stuff.
I think you guys conflate employment with output. Why? Is toiling on an assembly line romantic or something?
You guys sound like the progressives who hate factory farming and the fact that it only employes something like 2% of the population, when a hundred years ago closer to 50% of the population was farmers. Today fewer workers produce orders of magnitude more food because they're incredibly productive compared to farmers of the past.
Are progressives stupid to want to return to 50% of the population working on comparatively unproductive farms? Of course they are. Then explain why bringing back comparatively unproductive manufacturing work isn't equally stupid.
I'm not talking about employment.
I'm talking about manufacturing output. Which would have included things made for the war efforts.
You’re serious? Seriously? America in the 1950s was a third world country compared to today. You’re talking about a decade before that. Yes, output is greater. By orders of magnitude. Jeez. I’m sorry but that’s dumb, dude. Really fucking dumb.
We dropped more bombs on Vietnam than during the entirety of WWII, and didn’t have to mobilize the entire nation to do it. Israel has dropped more bombs on Gaza (don’t we make those?) than the combined bombing of Dresden, Hamburg, and London during World War II. All that did was open a corner in a few warehouses.
Dude, think. Yes. WWII level production is a joke compared to today, and it required a lot more people to do it.
Tell me you didn't bother to look it up without telling me.
We produce ~8x more today than we did at the height of WW2:
https://www.macrotrends.net/2583/industrial-production-historical-chart
Seems that includes other than manufacturing output.
And this is a problem. Chosen metric can push a narrative.
Also need to normalize data for disparate population and economic sizing.
But democrats prefer the narratives to the facts.
Of course they didn’t bother. They know what they feel. Facts can’t change that.
Besides they still conflate employment with production like progressives do with farming. Two sides of the same coin.
They feel that despite capital investment and technological improvements, worker productivity hasn’t improved. You can’t convince them otherwise. It’s impossible.
Another article that conflates production and employment.
You can’t just wave away production gains due to automation and claim they don’t count because they don’t increase employment. Well you can, like the article did, but that would be dishonest.
Which means that’s what you will do.
Doesn't matter. The US doesn't export enough to cover it's own debts (period). That alone says far more than anything else.
TJJ2000:
Sure we do. We export cash that covers our imports. That cash has to be spent back in the US (as foreign investment). Meanwhile, the balance of investment returns strongly favors US investors in foreign markets over foreign investors in US markets.
So when you consider all capital flows, trade balances investment returns, which makes the US much much richer than it would be otherwise.
Anyone who thinks the US 'trade deficit' matters is economically illiterate.
“Anyone who thinks the US ‘trade deficit’ matters is economically illiterate.”
And you wonder why everyone calls you STUPID?
Seriously?
Hey dummy, have you ever considered doing actual research instead of blindly repeating the lefts narratives?
Output as in total pieces produced, costs, percentage of US economy? Which metric? You're just blindly pushing a talking point you heard from shrike. No actual curiosity as to its truthfulness.
From last year:
https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-manufacturing-stays-depressed-november-ism-2023-12-01/
From one of your view aligned trade groups.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/do-not-blame-trade-decline-manufacturing-jobs
More from last year.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-manufacturing-sector-weakest-nearly-three-years-march-ism-2023-04-03/
So what is the start point of your claim? What is your measurement metric.
None of the links above are right wing, all corporate or left wing bias. So please actually defend your assertion.
I took a brief look at your links and they are all about jobs, not output.
Looks like you’re conflating stuff produced with people producing it.
As domestic manufacturing continues to be more productive and efficient, it requires fewer workers to make more stuff.
You’ve got the exact same mentality as progressives who see only 2% of the population engaged in farming and conclude we don’t make any food.
So you attack the links, don't provide what metric you're asserting and once again fail to defend your own assertion.
You are amazingly ignorant and useless.
Shorter Jesse: “la la la I’ve got my fingers in my ears I can’t hear you la la la”
I told you. Output. As in value of goods produced. Not number of people employed.
I completely and totally agree that manufacturing jobs have been on the decline for over forty years. That's a fact. It is also a fact that fewer workers are producing more stuff.
So if you want to lament the loss of jobs, that's fine. But don't lie and claim that that correlated to less stuff being produced.
Lol. I’ve provided my fucking evidence you retarded ignorant fuck. It is amusing watching you blindly push narratives for Democrats though.
Here. Addresses the exact argument of Democrats you’re trying to make. Not a conservative group.
https://www.upjohn.org/research-highlights/american-manufacturing-decline
But we know you won’t. You’re not capable of education or thinking past your DNC narratives. Again. You’re useless and a waste.
It is amazing how you can’t even defend your assertion taken directly from shrike.
Keep falling for propaganda without any interest to verify it.
Economists say productivity is up. Supporters of protectionism and other government interventions in the economy say it’s down.
I’ll trust economists instead of politicians, fuck you very much.
Lol. Holy fuck are you retarded. Economists say. All of them or the ones pushing your DNC narratives?
Are you this fucking dumb?
Link to your source. Let us see the metric. My link literally discusses the metrics being used and why they are misleading.
You really love being ignorant. Did too many words hurt your head? Were the words too big?
There are economists that will literally say anything. Economists that defend Marxism. One’s that are pure capitalists. MMT. Keyenesians. Austrians. Chicago school.
Holy fuck. Did you really just say “economists say?”
You are honestly dumber than i gave you credit for.
I look at the whole picture and different points of view, then make up my mind.
You defend whatever Trump and the GOP has to say, seek out information to back it up while ignoring everything else, and attack anything and anyone who disagrees with accusations of being Democrats.
Then you claim I have no integrity.
As always you accuse others of doing what you are doing while you are doing it.
I’ve linked to various sources in the past. You just laugh and dismiss them out of hand. I’m not going to bother again.
You keep linking to sources you claim say manufacturing output is down. All of them say manufacturing employment is down. Many times each. And nobody is arguing against that.
They then conflate employment with output. After all, if employment is down then output must be down too, right?
Next they say output is down as long as you exclude this or that or the other thing that’s up. And automation too. Well yeah. Of course it will be.
All of these articles are feeding emotion. Employment is down! Oh no! Production must be down too, and it is if you don’t count where it’s up! Or what replaces workers! There you go, proof that it's down!
And people who feel the way you do read it and say “Here’s proof! It validates my feelings!”
Fuck, man. Learn to use your brain.
From the first paragraph:
“globalization has severely weakened domestic manufacturing, citing large trade deficits and job losses to back their claim”
From the middle:
“Excluding output…”
“The extraordinary output and productivity growth… has little to do with automation”
From the last paragraph:
“Manufacturing’s anemic output growth is largely the result of globalization and that fact, coupled with automation, is responsible for large reductions of manufacturing employment since the 1990s.”
They’re saying manufacturing employment is down due in part to automation. And growth is down if you don’t count where it’s grown. Which is not due to automation, though automation is driving down employment. They’re talking in circles.
I get it. You must prove the economy is in the shitter because you hate Democrats. Any person or fact that says otherwise is leftist and must be attacked. Tribalism at its best. You're a fucking caveman. Grunt grunt.
Like the American Innovation and Manufacturing Act of 2020, sponsored by John Kennedy and signed by Trump? Yeah that is costing me a lot since it is the law used by the EPA to phase out 410A refrigerant.
"J.D. Vance Actually Does Understand How Costs Get Passed Along the Supply Chain."
Whereas Harris and Tampon Tim believe the socialist fairy will spread its magic want across the US, and all will be well again.
This is why Reason has become so tired, and why I can only manage to visit once every couple of weeks now. Boehm, Sullum and de Rugy have written this exact same article at least twice a month for the past 8 years.
I agree. Tariffs are bad.
But this article adds exactly nothing to the discussion that hasn't been added before. It is essentially "Barking Dog still barking!" Based on 2022 data, the cost of Tariffs in the US is about $51 Billion per year. It amounts to an 18% tax on the $278 Billion worth of goods taxed, and it represents 1.4% of the $3.8 Trillion import expenditures. It's miniscule.
Meanwhile, energy prices are up 24% since 2020- and that represents 10 - 20% of the after-tax income of the lower 60% of American earners.
I watch on X as the Jacket and Boehm act apoplectically incredulous that the American public doesn't want to hear about their constant Tariff nonsense. It is because they have bigger fish to fry and the fact that Boehm can't figure that out shows just how out of touch they are.
Ding ding ding! You win today's "best post" award. Sadly, due to
inflation"greedy corporations", there is no longer a prize.nobody needs any kinds of prizes.
But acknowledging what you state would mean they couldn't bitch about Trump on an issue.
^THIS^ is what it really is all about.
Why it's always 'Trumps Tariffs'.
Slight disagreement. The idea that regulating all power generation at cost is on par with fractionally regulating a fraction of trade is an added degree of stupidity.
Whether that degree has been added before is arguable.
I don't see that this is a disagreement. My point is that Boehm acknowledges that Vance is correct on Energy Policy, and then changes the subject to Tariffs. Again. For the hundredth time.
Whether Vance is wrong or not on Tariffs is immaterial. The subject in the debate was Energy policy. And rather than talk about energy policy like Vance, Walz, Debate Moderators and 60% of the country would prefer, Boehm is once again making it about his pet issue, Tariffs. He is like that cranky uncle at Thanksgiving who keeps trying to make every conversation revert to his JFK Assassination theories. It is clueless and an embarrassment.
And that is why Boehm is here, with us, and not somewhere else more lucrative.
How dare Vance and Trump more than double the tariff on timber last year!!
Gonna piss off sarc for understanding the actual issues.
I mean kamala wants a 28% corporate tax for fucks sake which is much higher.
But……..but……… Trump!
It’s inflation, stupid.
If that lumber comes from Canada, it will be subject to 14.5 percent tariffs—tariffs that were hiked from 8 percent to that level earlier this year
Then buy the lumber from Idaho, Washington, Montana, etc. This is the point of tariffs, FFS.
Using lumber as an example is just fucking stupid.
Yes, the point of the tariffs is to "nudge" (conservatives used to hate that concept, but now they love it when government nudges people) consumers into buying from more expensive domestic sources by artificially raising the prices of imports.
Thing is, domestic producers get to raise their prices too.
I'll make up an example with easy numbers.
Say the imported boards cost $25 and domestic producers can't charge less than $30. Government nudges consumers with a tariff that raises the price of the import to $35. The domestic producer will now raise their price to $32. Now consumers are stuck with paying $32 instead of $25, while you and other Trump defenders declare a smug victory but can't figure out why houses cost more.
Now, instead of bitching about not having access to cheaper overseas products, try asking “why is it so expensive here?” And then try “what policies do I support and advocate for that makes lumber so expensive in the US?” And then advocate for the lowering of minimum wage, the reform of education and its cost, and reducing regulatory overreach.
Then WE can be competitive with oversea costs without tariffs.
Why? Why do we need to be competitive with those things? People who say we need tariffs to make things fair ignore, deny, or redefine the basic economic concept of comparative advantage. We manufacture plenty of things in this country. Manufacturing output has never been higher. Our comparative advantage is capital. We make big things like construction equipment and airplanes. Do you really think we’d be better off if we had Americans toiling at menial jobs in parts factories as well? I don’t. Let people overseas do that shit work.
Correction: Our comparative advantage is the World's Reserve Currency. It allows us to accumulate and deploy capital in a way that is unfair to the rest of the world.
Another word for "trade deficit" is "capital surplus".
When we buy stuff and others get dollars in return, those dollars eventually come back in the form of capital. We get stuff in return for green pieces of paper, and then those green pieces of paper come back in the form of capital investment. Seems like a win-win to me.
It's even more fun than that. Foreign capital investment in the US has lower returns than US capital investment in foreign countries. (Probably because US investors are looking for explosive growth with foreign investment, while foreign investors in the US are looking for increased stability).
So the trade deficit is balanced by a capital returns surplus.
This really is a win-win. We get cheaper goods, and we get more money.
You really hate American business, don’t you? Unsurprising, as you’ve been fired for being an erratic, rageaholic, irresponsible drunk from every job up you had before you ended up homeless. Living in a piss soaked alley beihind a dive bar.
Sarc is arguing for more regulations. How unsurprising.
Now I get it. US policy should always incentivize cheap imports while simultaneously strangling domestic products with over-bearing/unnecessary regulations.
Of course, this is spoken by a prog American who has never ran a business or ever had to make payroll.
Those are two separate issues.
The reason you guys say “Forget tariffs, look at regulations! Over there! No, over there! Look over there!” is because you can’t defend tariffs.
Criticizing tariffs does not equal support for regulations. You're just defending tariffs by attacking the people critical of them and accusing them of ignoring regulations. And that's what you will continue to do, because attacking critics is all you've got.
Because regulations are a direct cost to businesses while also directly driving up cost of goods SND services. And by a far greater amount than tariffs.
You really are a stupid shitweasel. You’re also a drunken cunt.
This is the summation of fake free trade libertarians here.
No, it’s a lie intended to deflect from your support for tariffs by claiming your opposition likes regulations. If your opposition says that they oppose regulations also, you will double-down, call them liars, tell them they do support regulations, and then argue against support for regulations. You’ve got your strawman all set up and ready to go.
No, you’re lying. Trying to say we support tariffs in general. We only support using them as a negotiating tactic, or rare circumstances regarding national security.
So quit lying you bitch.
I would say sarc knows this, but his alcoholic amnesia means he probably doesn't.
Yep, Sarc is a fake libertarian. Just another slithering leftist liar, like Pedo Jeffy and Shrike. As much as I despised Tony, at least he never pretended to be anything other than the piece of shit Marxist he was. I had a tiny sliver of respect for that.
Why not decrease both?
The solution to bad regulations isn't tariffs to make US goods more competitive, it's to remove the bad regulations and *not do the tariffs at all*.
Exactly. Reason argues against regulation all the time.
Problem is that the people defending tariffs have no defense. So they go on the offense against a strawman that likes regulation.
Yet Reason supports the candidate who is most favorable towards increased tariffs and regulations.
Explain that.
Because she's not "America's Hitler"?
Between her and Trump she is. A retarded version of Hitler. The democrat party is intrinsically fascistic anymore. And pure evil.
You’ve even made Islamist Hamas and Hezbollah supporters a key party demographic.
Is the solution to costs born by foreign anti market entities imposing costs on others to blindly ignore those acts as well?
^BEST PLAN^..... YET +10000000000.
Let us know when domestic manufacturing taxes is only 10%.
>>As with so much of Vance's candidacy, the really frustrating thing here is ...
the missed opportunities by Reason to address it intellectually.
So anything that increases prices is bad, regardless of the reasoning behind it, is that the take? So by this logic bringing back slavery, in other countries of course, is good because it reduces my prices at home and that is the only relevant metric...
No! Of course not. We advocate for illegal immigrant labor so we can have pseudo-slavery here, too! Enough slavery to reduce costs without offending our virtues (or pulling on our private pockets to house, feed, and clothe them).
Have you seen their takes on illegal immigration? They are quite happy with the idea of a slave underclass.
Aside from the moral objections, which are sufficient, slavery isn't very efficient, so it would increase prices, not reduce them.
The north was economically outperforming the south before the civil war. Even early industrialization destroyed any economic basis for slavery. (As a purely economic matter, private slavery is only an improvement over government slavery). The gains from industrialization have only compounded since then, and the modern information economy has multiplied those productivity gains further.
Separately, Vance praised the Biden administration for continuing many of Trump's tariffs
He's more honest than any of the Trump defenders in the comments.
So you are going to vote for trump/vance?
Sarc doesn’t vote, ever. He’s said that many times.
Needs moar straw.
Biden didn't just continue, he raised them big time with China.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/#:~:text=In%20response%20to%20China%E2%80%99s%20unfair%20trade%20practices%20and%20to%20counteract
Why don't Trump defenders every praise him for that? Could it be that they are defending Trump, not tariffs? That's what it looks like to me.
I don't see the people that were not paying rent during the pandemic praising Trump either.
Politics is not giving the other side any credit.
Politics is not giving the other side any credit.
No, that’s binary thinking. It’s also retarded.
It's why binary thinkers are convinced that I'm a leftist. I criticized Trump, OMG I'm a leftist. So what if I've also given him credit where credit is due. Meanwhile I've never given Biden credit for anything, since all of his policies suck. Yet I'm a leftist because binary thinking retards see me critical of Trump and see that as praise for Biden. Fucking retards.
Poor sarc. Such a victim.
That's not binary thinking although the subject, politics, largely is.
It's also part of the point you were making. Trump fans that like tariffs don't like to give Biden credit for doing it. So I was actually agreeing with you. And fucking retards is you comment? LOL.
Sarc hasn’t competently ‘ascertained’ the definition of many words he’s just learned here. But he does use them constantly. Having not ‘ascertained’ that he is repetitive, and using these words incorrectly.
Sarc has also not ‘ascertained’ that he embarrasses himself through such buffoonish assholery.
We didn’t praise him because they were riffs for the sake of tariffs. Trump added tariffs as part of a trade negotiation strategy. With the goal of striking a deal and removing them. Trump’s tariffs were not meant to be permanent. He even offered to remove all our tariffs with any country who would remove all theirs.
Not the same thing. But you’ll never admit that, because TRUMP!
Trump himself has recently claimed that tariffs would be used to pay for critical domestic expenditures. That’s not “striking a deal and then removing [tariffs]”, as you claim. Trump clearly views tariffs as “free money”, paid by foreigners, and which can be used to erase the US' deficits.
“Trump was asked at his appearance before the Economic Club of New York about his plans to drive down child care costs to help more women join the workforce.
“Child care is child care, it’s something you have to have in this country. You have to have it,” he said. Then, he said his plans to tax imports from foreign nations at higher levels would “take care” of such problems.
“We’re going to be taking in trillions of dollars, and as much as child care is talked about as being expensive, it’s — relatively speaking — not very expensive, compared to the kind of numbers we’ll be taking in,” he said.
Trump has embraced tariffs as he appeals to working-class voters who oppose free-trade deals and the outsourcing of factories and jobs. But in his speech Thursday and his economic plans as a whole, Trump has made a broader — to some, implausible — promise on tariffs: that they can raise trillions of dollars to fund his agenda without those costs being passed along to consumers in the form of higher prices.
His campaign attacks Democratic nominee Kamala Harris ’ proposals to increase corporate tax rates by saying they would ultimately be borne by workers in the form of fewer jobs and lower incomes. Yet taxes on foreign imports would have a similar effect with businesses and consumers having to absorb those costs in the form of higher prices.”
(As an aside, when I googled “trump tariffs childcare”, it was interesting that the first two pages of results contained nothing from the usual MAGA “news” spigots–as if Trump’s address to the Economic Club of New York last month had never happened. Perhaps in MAGAworld, it didn’t?)
He’s also said he would be willing to remove all tariffs against any other country who will do the same. So you’re full of shit. As usual.
Seriously, stop trying to twist this around. Take the ‘L’ and walk away before you embarrass yourself even more.
Maybe if we wind up being forced to manufacture things here, maybe people actually be woken up to the ridiculous regulatory apparatus that drives the prices up so much and do something about it.
Tariffs are really not a great idea but "no tariffs and status quo on everything else" is also a terrible idea. Our economy can't function like this forever. If tariffs are the thing that the forces us to confront our "unproductive labor" centric economy, maybe it can be fixed. Because if that doesn't get fixed, arguing about tariffs is irrelevant.
Amen to that.
Libertarians are just as NIMBY as the people they whine about in zoning articles. We want all the clean air, nice houses, nice cars, and fancy hi tech industry but are totally unwilling to pay its cost in domestic labor and goods.
People who claim those critical of tariffs are ignoring regulatory costs are just liars trying to deflect with attacks.
You don't like tariffs? That means you like regulations! You're not talking about regulations because you're a regulation lover! Regulation lover! Regulation lover!
You know, like Jesse's post above.
Lol. No.
People will continue to bitch and moan that their shit is more and more expensive and never understand why.
My stupid state passed onerous laws that make pork more expensive, and they have the gall to bitch and moan abut grocery stores gouging people.
"Maybe if the government intentionally raises import taxes enough to cause voters real pain, the voters will force the government to remove regulations which cause voters real pain."
Since when do you democrats have any objection whatsoever to taxes? And you’re a hypocrite anyway, you have no problem with all the tariffs levied by your retarded master, Harris.
And obligatory because Reason doesn’t:
No Taxation without Representation. You want a tariff levied it needs to be passed by Congress, not by pen and phone.
That’s far more likely to ossify tariffs, making them less responsive to the economy. Tariffs should not be permanent structures, but temporary. As an industry stabilizes or a foreign country responds, the tariffs should be easily removed.
The legality or illegality of tariffs as a policy position can be decided by Congress, but just like how many immigrants and from where should be responsive to the economy and foreign affairs, tariffs should also be. We want less red tape here, not more.
Tariffs was the majority of 'Tax' used before the 16th Amendment.
So no; Originally it wasn't just a 'foreign country response'.
And it is entirely a power of Congress.
^THIS^ .... Is most likely the *real* issue with Tariffs.
Modern day Tariffs are UN-Constitutional. The power was granted to Congress.
What, then, do tariffs on steel and lumber do?
Boehm, you fucking retard, you do realize that, unlike steel and lumber, energy *literally* goes into *everything* *everyone* does, right?
Before the federal income tax, tariffs were one of the biggest ways the feds raised money.
Tariffs can be for revenue or protective, but not both. Revenue tariffs ideally do not change behavior because they are supposed to be paid. Protective tariffs ideally do not raise revenue because their purpose is to change behavior.
So the people claim that the country was founded on tariffs that simultaneously raised revenue while protecting industry are ignorant or lying.
Tell you what though. If we could fund the federal government on revenue tariffs alone, I'd take it. Of course that would require the government shrinking by something like 99%.
"Tariffs can be for revenue or protective, but not both."
LMAO... See; Right out of Sarcs BS Bible... /s
While energy prices are significant there are real limits on what any President can do to control them. There are few things that a Trump/Vance administration could do but this is not going to have the effect they are promising. The market drives the price not the President. The limited effect on energy would be offset by tariffs and by labor costs. Right now, significant amounts of construction workers are immigrants. Deport them and construction costs will sky rocket. Vance is smart and he assumes his audiences is not smart.
Vance is smart and he assumes his audiences is not smart.
He's right about that.
I'm so happy with what you've devolved to. Seeking friends with the left here uncritically.
He’s best buddies with BOTH of the resident pedophiles.
Problem: Regulations raise the cost of producing certain things domestically, making imports cheaper.
Solution: Use tariffs to raise the price of imports to something domestic producers can compete with or undercut. If someone says tariffs suck because they’re a drain on consumers, attack them with accusations of supporting regulations.
That’s some serious retardation, and pretty much sums up the comments.
No it doesn’t, you retarded drunken faggot. This has been covered literally hundreds of times, but you continue to repeat your lies. The difference is using tariffs as a negotiating tool temporarily to improve trade deals with foreign nations versus you democrats employing them as a permanent structural part of the American economy.
You’ve been straightened left here endlessly on this subject. We’ve obviously been far too nice to you.
You have to remember. Sarc is a fucking moron. He initially claimed Reagan never used tariffs. Then claimed all tariffs were protectionist despite clear examples given to him. Now he just ignorantly lies in regards to the subject.
Trump was wrong about his beautiful proposed tariffs paying for American childcare?
No, he wasn’t. Just stop. This sock isn’t doing you any favors.
I do believe that's the smartest thing you've said in the last week.
Too bad you're too retarded to realize your own retardedness.
"If that lumber comes from Canada"
Big if. You do realize how tariffs work, right? You artificially increase the price of foreign goods to help domestic production compete and build infrastructure.
Would be neat to see some data showing substitution effect due to tariffs. We didn't have high inflation with tariffs, so the effects must have been negligible.
At my local lumber yard clear pine comes from New Zealand. No idea why but that where it is from.
It seems as if the only thing progressives DON'T want mandatory production of identification for is voting. Hmm . . .
“What, then, do tariffs on steel and lumber do?”
Oh probably the same thing as Taxes-do but at only 1/100th the damage.