Should We Blame Fauci for the COVID Pandemic?
America's COVID celebrity is facing scrutiny for funding risky research that may have sparked the pandemic—and for allegedly covering it up.
In June 2024, Anthony Fauci appeared before the House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic for a contentious confrontation with congressional Republicans. But it opened on what might have sounded like an amicable note, as the subcommittee's chairman, Rep. Brad Wenstrup (R–Ohio), played up Fauci's sainted status: "There were drinks named after you. You got bobbleheads made in your likeness. You were on the cover of Vogue. You threw out the first pitch at a Washington Nationals game."
Fauci was the closest thing the world of public health had to a rock star. For nearly 40 years prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, Fauci had served as the influential but unassuming director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), a subsidiary of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) housed within the sprawling U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).
That post made Fauci the federal government's de facto top pandemic expert across the dozens of agencies—from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to the Food and Drug Administration to the Office of the Surgeon General—that share responsibilities for preventing and responding to disease outbreaks. Fauci steered the U.S. government's response to AIDS, Zika, Ebola, and swine flu. He oversaw billions in annual research grants aimed at stopping the next disease outbreak.
When COVID struck, Fauci was the face of public health when public health was all anyone was talking about.
His celebrity also made him a partisan lightning rod. Democrats saw him as a steady, straight-talking scientist who struck a pleasing contrast to a chaotic Donald Trump recommending crank COVID cures in White House press conferences. For many conservatives, he was a hate figure responsible for locking down the country without regard for civil liberties or collateral damage. But by that June 2024 congressional hearing, Fauci was at the center of a new array of controversies.
In 2023, the incoming Republican House majority had reorganized the coronavirus subcommittee to investigate the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic. The information they'd uncovered, supplemented by years of dogged investigative journalism, was damning for Fauci and his agency.
Fauci had long denied his agency had ever funded controversial gain-of-function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) in Wuhan, China, where the COVID-19 pandemic originated. But weeks before Fauci's testimony, a senior NIH official admitted that the NIAID had funded such research. Days later, President Joe Biden's administration would strip EcoHealth Alliance—the nonprofit that the NIAID had paid to do that gain-of-function research—of its federal funding, citing the organization's lack of transparency and oversight failures at the WIV.
Soon after, the select subcommittee revealed that Fauci's senior scientific adviser, David Morens, told EcoHealth scientists in emails that Fauci would "protect" the group from public scrutiny about the pandemic's origins and that Morens could pass any needed communications from EcoHealth to Fauci via a private back channel that was safe from public records requests.
The day of Fauci's testimony, the Harvard- and MIT--affiliated biologist Alina Chan argued in The New York Times that a lab leak at the WIV was the probable cause of the COVID-19 pandemic.
Together, the revelations painted a picture of Fauci as a dissembling, denying, power-grabbing bureaucrat who repeatedly used slippery arguments to dodge public oversight of a controversial, high-risk agenda—an agenda that may have led to the very pandemic his job was to prevent.
Fauci argued it was all much ado about nothing. At the hearing, he said the gain-of-function research the NIAID had funded in Wuhan wasn't of concern and couldn't have sparked the pandemic; that he had no back channel with his senior scientific adviser, who he didn't even work that closely with; and that while a lab leak wasn't a conspiracy theory, he couldn't be expected to know everything that happened in China. His story was that he had acted in good faith, in the name of science, and that he wasn't culpable.
Yet when one considers Fauci's record and the accumulated evidence about a lab leak origin of COVID-19, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that he is probably at least partially culpable for the pandemic itself and actively worked to obscure that fact. As Richard Ebright, a Rutgers University molecular biologist and fierce Fauci critic, says of the series of choices that led to dangerous pandemic research being conducted in Wuhan with U.S. tax dollars: "There are few decisions that are so centrally linked to a single person and that person's pathologies, and that person is Anthony Fauci."
We may never know the full story of the pandemic's origin. But if this were a bureaucratic whodunit, the most likely suspect would be Fauci. COVID-19 was Fauci's pandemic.
Pushing Risky Research
Prior to COVID-19, Fauci had long supported funding pandemic research that other scientists found risky, if not downright dangerous.
In 2005, as NIAID director, he praised researchers who'd used a grant from his agency to resurrect the virus that had caused the Spanish flu pandemic. Better understanding that virus would help prevent future diseases, he argued. "The certain benefits to be obtained by a robust and responsible research agenda aimed at developing the means to detect, prevent and treat [future pandemics] far outweigh any theoretical risks," he said in an October 2005 statement co-authored with then–CDC Director Julie Gerberding.
This wasn't a universal opinion at the NIAID. The agency's chief scientist described this approach to pandemic prevention as "looking for a gas leak with a lighted match."
Fauci would continue to praise and fund this kind of research. In 2011, researchers at the University of Wisconsin and at Erasmus University Medical Center in the Netherlands managed to manipulate the virus H5N1 (which had been responsible for a 2004 bird flu epidemic in Asia) to transmit between mammals, a "gain of function" for a virus that had heretofore only been able to pass from infected birds to humans. One of the researchers involved in the work would say the enhanced pathogen they'd created was "very, very bad news" and "probably one of the most dangerous viruses you can make." Fauci was more sanguine, telling The New York Times that "there is always a risk. But I believe the benefits are greater than the risks."
When the influenza research community adopted a temporary moratorium on gain-of-function research in response to the H5N1 experiments, Fauci begrudgingly accepted it as necessary to calm public opinion. He still insisted this work's potential to stop the next pandemic far outweighed any "theoretical risks" it posed.
Deadly outbreaks of bird flu and severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in the early 2000s, and the anthrax mailings that followed the September 11 terror attacks, had both the public health and the national security establishments attuned to "biosecurity" threats.
At the same time, researchers were rapidly improving their ability to create and manipulate viruses in the lab. This offered the potential for creating new vaccines, therapeutics, and pest control measures. It also raised the risk that a new pandemic might be accidentally released from a lab.
In the mid-2000s, President George W. Bush's administration commissioned reports on how "dual-use research of concern" might be subjected to some sort of risk-benefit analysis. But Fauci consistently argued against the idea that their agencies should have to abide by additional guardrails when funding risky research into pandemic pathogens.
"It's safe to say NIH is always on the 'more science, less regulation' side. That was definitely true in this debate," Gregory Koblentz, a biosafety expert at George Mason University who's been a longtime participant in debates about how to regulate dual-use research, tells Reason.
There are very good reasons to be wary about regulating scientific research. But the equation changes when the government itself is funding the research in question. Indeed, Matt Ridley—a science writer who co-authored Alina Chan's book Viral, about the origins of COVID-19—suggests that government funding itself is a big part of the problem. A profit-seeking private sector would never touch the kinds of research that was being done by EcoHealth Alliance in Wuhan, he argues. The odds that such research will identify the next pandemic virus and develop a profitable vaccine or therapeutic for it, he says, are too low for even the most starry-eyed venture capitalist.
There was also the downside risk of a lab accident.
In 2014, there was a series of embarrassing safety lapses at U.S. government labs, highlighting this risk.
Dozens of CDC employees were potentially exposed to live anthrax samples shipped by mistake to labs not equipped to handle them. At another CDC lab, a less dangerous version of bird flu was accidentally contaminated with deadly H5N1. Vials of smallpox capable of infecting people were stashed in a cabinet at an NIH lab, where they'd apparently been sitting for decades. None of these incidents were direct results of gain-of-function research. But they heightened the concern that researchers working to enhance deadly pathogens might do so in unsafe settings.
Oversight Avoidance
In October 2014, President Barack Obama's administration paused federal funding of gain-of-function research that could make flu, SARS, or Middle East respiratory syndrome viruses transmissible via the respiratory route in mammals. It also started crafting a regulatory framework for vetting these experiments.
In 2017, the White House produced the laboriously titled HHS Framework for Guiding Funding Decisions about Proposed Research Involving Enhanced Potential Pandemic Pathogens, which became known as the P3CO framework.
Under P3CO, the NIH would forward grant proposals involving research on known pandemic pathogens or research that might create or enhance such pathogens to a new P3CO committee within HHS for a department-level risk-benefit analysis. The debates leading to the framework stressed the value of performing those risk-benefit assessments publicly and transparently. But the committee's deliberations would be kept secret.
This framework also gave the NIH considerable autonomy to decide which grant proposals it would—and wouldn't—forward to the HHS for review.
To date, the P3CO committee has vetted just three research proposals involving so-called enhanced potential pandemic pathogens, out of potentially dozens that should have been examined. Two out of three were allowed to go forward unaltered. The committee required the other to adopt additional safety mitigation measures, and the NIAID ultimately chose not to fund it.
Fauci and NIH Director Francis Collins, also an advocate of gain-of-function research, found a way to skirt the oversight process. They "realized that if they don't [forward proposals to HHS for review], there is no review," says Ebright, the Rutgers biologist and a longtime critic of gain-of-function research. "By willfully violating the policy, they could nullify the policy."
This gap in the oversight system would become apparent when the NIAID failed to stop gain-of-function research being performed at the WIV.
Dangerous Exceptions
During his June 2024 testimony, Fauci said that he signed off on every grant the NIAID funded but didn't individually review each one. In a 2022 deposition, he admitted that he also might have signed off on some exceptions to the Obama administration's gain-of-function pause. But he couldn't recall specific examples.
So it's possible that one exception Fauci might have signed off on was the work being performed by EcoHealth Alliance in Wuhan, China, and that work might have led directly to the COVID-19 pandemic.
EcoHealth Alliance is a New York–based nonprofit that specializes in research on pandemic risk from emerging "disease hotspots" in the developing world. In 2014, it received a five-year, $3.7 million NIAID grant to collect virus samples from human beings and bats in China and then sequence and experiment on these viruses at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
This type of research was the passion project of EcoHealth's president, Peter Daszak. Daszak, who Vanity Fair has called "one part salesman, one part visionary," was known in D.C. circles for his invite-only cocktail parties for senior government officials involved in funding scientific research. He pitched this research as crucial for finding viruses that were likely to "spill over" from animals to humans. Once identified, vaccines and therapeutics could be developed preemptively to stop any outbreak.
Critics argued this work was an inefficient way of spotting which of the thousands upon thousand of viruses circulating in nature might cause the next pandemic. But in 2016, EcoHealth revealed it was engaged in far more alarming work.
In its second annual progress report to the NIAID, EcoHealth announced that it intended to create "chimeric" or hybrid viruses out of spike proteins, the part of a virus that allows it to enter and infect hosts cells, from SARS-like coronaviruses discovered in the wild and the backbone of another, already-known SARS virus.
EcoHealth wanted to use these viruses to infect "humanized" mice—animals genetically manipulated to have human lung cells—to see whether any of them posed a pandemic risk. It proposed doing the research at the WIV, where many U.S. researchers considered the biosafety standards much too lax.
This was exactly the kind of dangerous research that the gain-of--function pause and P3CO framework were intended to control. Upon receipt of EcoHealth's 2016 progress report, the NIAID program officer overseeing the grant told the nonprofit that its work appeared to violate the then-active pause on gain-of-function research. EcoHealth wouldn't receive its next tranche of grant money unless it could explain why it didn't.
Daszak responded that the viruses they were working with hadn't been shown to infect people yet and were unlikely to do so, given how genetically different they were from the original SARS virus.
Yet the plain text of the pause policy never required that viruses being experimented with already be shown to infect human beings. The idea that it would is "laughable," says Ebright. "The whole point of a policy that operates at the proposal stage, before the research has been done, is to prevent the construction and creation of such a pathogen."
Nevertheless, in July 2016 the NIAID told EcoHealth it could proceed with its work on the condition that the chimeric viruses it had created didn't demonstrate higher growth rates than their naturally occurring cousins.
Experiments run by EcoHealth in 2017 showed that its hybrid SARS-like coronaviruses exhibited much greater viral growth, and were much more pathogenic, in the humanized mice compared with natural variants. But EcoHealth didn't pause its work as promised. It also didn't report these results to the NIAID immediately. It only revealed them in a fourth annual progress report submitted April 2018.
EcoHealth was plainly violating the terms imposed on its research in 2016. Its work had also not been forwarded to the P3CO committee for review. Yet the NIAID renewed its grant for another five years. In this second grant phase, EcoHealth proposed making more chimeric SARS-like coronaviruses containing features with "high spillover risk" to human beings.
EcoHealth was scheduled to start this work in 2019. That year, the nonprofit should have submitted a fifth annual progress report to the NIAID. It didn't, claiming the NIAID's reporting -system had "locked them out"—a claim subsequently found false.
When EcoHealth's year five report was eventually submitted two years late, in 2021, it showed that additional chimeric viruses created in Wuhan demonstrated both enhanced transmission and lethality in humanized mice.
By that time, the COVID-19 pandemic was already well underway.
'Not Following the Policy'
In 2021, Fauci said the NIH "has not ever and does not now fund gain-of-function research in the Wuhan Institute of Virology." That wasn't true. What EcoHealth was doing in Wuhan clearly met the widely understood definition of gain-of-function research.
In his June 2024 testimony, Fauci dodged accusations that he lied by saying that while EcoHealth's work might have met a generic definition of gain-of-function research, it didn't meet the precise definition established in the P3CO framework.
Fauci said that every time he mentioned gain-of-function research, "the definition that I use is not my personal definition; it is a codified, regulatory and operative definition." That definition, he said, "had nothing to do with me."
On the contrary, regulatory definitions had quite a bit to do with Fauci. They were designed with the expectation that he and his fellow public health bureaucrats would use discretion and good judgment when making decisions. The relevant regulatory language included lots of "likelys and highlys and reasonably anticipated," says Gerald Epstein, a former director at the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy who wrote the P3CO policy. "These words are inherently subjective. You can't not be. You've got to be making judgment calls on something that does not yet exist." Those subjective definitions gave Fauci and his NIAID underlings considerable room to decide what research required additional review.
Was the agency complying with the spirit of the policy? Epstein points to the total number of projects the NIH sent to the P3CO committee. "The fact that they found one project in seven years [that needed additional safety measures] tells me they were being too conservative," he says.
Koblentz is more blunt. When the NIAID allowed EcoHealth to proceed with its work under novel conditions, he says, it "wasn't for them to decide. That was them not following the policy."
Smoking Gun?
The NIAID's failure to forward EcoHealth's experiments to the P3CO committee was, at minimum, a serious process failure. That failure may well have allowed for the creation of the COVID-19 pandemic in the Wuhan lab.
In 2018, the same year that the NIAID renewed EcoHealth's grant for another five years, Daszak submitted a $14 million grant proposal to the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), called DEFUSE.
Once again, he proposed creating chimeric SARS-like coronaviruses selected for their ability to infect human beings. Early drafts of the DEFUSE proposal, uncovered by U.S. Right to Know reporter Emily Kopp, show that Daszak envisioned creating viruses with features present in SARS-CoV-2 and which do not appear in naturally discovered coronaviruses of the same family, including features that primed the virus to infect and spread in humans.
Kopp's Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests also revealed notes from Daszak and his collaborators on DEFUSE project drafts that suggested the EcoHealth president was deliberately trying to obscure the fact that these novel viruses would be created in Wuhan by omitting the names of Chinese researchers from the proposal. An early draft of DEFUSE also proposed creating novel coronaviruses in Wuhan because it used lower biosafety precautions than what would be used in the U.S., describing the lower safety standards as "highly cost-effective."
In a note on this early draft, University of North Carolina epidemiologist and pioneer gain-of-function researcher Ralph Baric, a proposed collaborator, said that U.S. researchers would "freak out" were such research done at Wuhan's typical biosafety levels.
DARPA ended up rejecting the DEFUSE proposal. But it remains possible that the Chinese researchers secured separate funding for the work. Ebright suggests that EcoHealth could also have used NIH funding from its renewed grant for the work, given how much overlap there was between the two proposals.
Ebright is unequivocal in his assessment that the research described in EcoHealth's progress reports, its 2018 grant renewal application, and the DEFUSE proposal, including the early draft and notes, combine into "smoking gun" evidence in favor of the COVID pandemic having been created at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
"It all falls together. We know what they were doing in the years preceding 2019. We know what they proposed to do in 2019. We knew how they proposed and where they proposed to do it," says Ebright. "It is exactly what the virus' emergence tells us."
Poisoned Debate
We probably won't ever definitively discover the origins of COVID-19. Officials in both the U.S. and China ensured that.
Chinese officials obstructed any investigation into the Wuhan Institute of Virology. In September 2019, the Associated Press reported, the institute took its database of viruses offline. It also hasn't made public lab notebooks and other materials that might shed light on exactly what kinds of work it was doing in the lead-up to the pandemic. In late 2019, the Chinese government also exterminated animals and disinfected the Wuhan wet market. If COVID did leap from animal to human in the Wuhan market, as many natural origin proponents argue, that evidence is gone.
What we're left with is studying the structure of the SARS-CoV-2 virus itself and whatever information can be gleaned from the U.S.-funded research that went on at Wuhan leading up to the pandemic.
On both fronts, Fauci, his underlings at the NIAID, and NIAID-funded scientists involved with work at Wuhan have worked to conceal information and discredit notions that COVID might have leaked from a lab.
In late January 2020, Fauci's aides flagged the NIAID's support of EcoHealth's Wuhan research in emails to their boss. A few weeks later, Fauci and Daszak would go on Newt Gingrich's podcast to dismiss the idea that COVID-19 came from the Wuhan lab, calling such arguments "conspiracy theories."
Both men also worked to shape the discourse behind the scenes away from any focus on a lab leak. Daszak organized a group letter of scientists in The Lancet, the U.K.'s top medical journal, declaring that they "stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin." Daszak did not disclose his relationship to the Wuhan lab when organizing this letter; The Lancet's editor would eventually concede that this was improper.
In testimony to the House coronavirus subcommittee in May 2024, Daszak would claim the "conspiracy theories" mentioned in the Lancet letter referred only to such wild early pandemic notions that COVID had pieces of HIV or snake DNA inserted into it. He said a word limit prevented him from being more precise.
Fauci, meanwhile, would help corral virologists into publishing the widely cited "proximal origin" paper in early 2020. In the paper, the authors flatly declared that "we do not believe any type of laboratory-leak scenario is plausible."
Yet troves of private messages and emails released by the House subcommittee's investigation show that the authors privately expressed far more openness to a lab leak theory.
One of the paper's authors, Scripps Research evolutionary biologist Kristian Andersen, privately rated a lab leak as "highly likely." But Andersen had a pending $8.9 million grant application with the NIAID as the paper was drafted. That grant was later approved. In an email, one of the paper's authors, Edward Holmes, references "pressure from on high" during the drafting process.
The authors of the proximal origin paper say they merely had their minds changed while drafting the paper. They were just following the scientific method.
Ridley, the science writer, has a much less charitable assessment of their behavior.
"That's scientific misconduct at the very least," he says, "to write a paper that says one thing and to think it's wrong in private."
Hiding the Evidence
There may be more we don't—and won't ever—know about Fauci's own communications with Daszak and other NIH officials about EcoHealth's work in Wuhan.
In May 2024, the House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic released a tranche of emails between Fauci's senior scientific adviser David Morens and Daszak, in which the two strategized about how to get EcoHealth's federal grant reinstated (after it was terminated by the Trump administration in 2020) and how the nonprofit should respond to NIH investigations into its grant work.
Across multiple emails to Daszak, Morens mentioned that he frequently had conversations with Fauci about Daszak and EcoHealth. He said Fauci was trying to "protect" Daszak.
Throughout these emails, Morens urged Daszak to email him on a personal email account to avoid Freedom of Information Act requests, openly admitted to deleting emails to shield them from FOIA, and said that the NIH's FOIA staff had advised him on how to hide information from records requests through deletions and strategic misspellings.
Most conspicuously, Morens sent a brief reply to Daszak in April 2021 in an email chain in which the two had been discussing mounting scrutiny from Republicans and some scientists of EcoHealth's Wuhan work.
"PS, i forgot to say there is no worry about FOIAs," Morens wrote. "I can either send stuff to Tony [Fauci] on his private gmail, or hand it to him at work or at his house. He is too smart to let colleagues send him stuff that could cause trouble." In another email, Morens mentioned having a "backchannel" to Fauci.
Asked about Morens' comments at the June hearing of the coronavirus subcommittee, Fauci denied having substantive conversations about EcoHealth with Morens and said that his senior scientific adviser was not someone he worked terribly closely with, outside collaborating on scientific papers.
The Next Pandemic
Fauci's best defense is that he ran a sprawling agency that doled out billions of dollars in grants. Even the most detail-obsessed administrator couldn't possibly keep track of every single program and project. And U.S. officials had limited control over what happened in the distant, opaque Wuhan lab.
But even if that's true, it's an admission of administrative negligence, since the oversight protocols weren't followed. It also implies a dramatic failure of the risky research that Fauci championed for pandemic prevention. As Ridley says, the pandemic "occurred with the very viruses that there was the most attention paid to, in the very area where there was the most research going on, where there was the biggest program looking for potential pandemic pathogens, and yet they failed to see this one coming." At a minimum, gain-of-function research didn't protect the public from the pandemic.
Meanwhile, the more direct case against Fauci is strong: Not only was he an ardent supporter of research widely believed to be risky, but he manipulated bureaucratic protocols in order to avoid scrutiny of that research, then responded evasively when called to account for his actions. At least one of the programs born out of Fauci's risky research crusade was pursuing exactly the type of viral enhancements that were present in COVID-19, and that research was conducted at the Wuhan virology lab in the very same city where the virus originated. Lab leak proponents cite the virus's transmissibility as evidence for a Wuhan leak: After all, EcoHealth was trying to create pathogens primed to spread rapidly in humans.
The evidence is not fully conclusive. But it seems reasonably likely that Fauci pushed for what his peers repeatedly said was dangerous research, that some of that dangerous research produced a deadly viral pathogen that escaped the lab, and that Fauci helped cover up evidence and arguments for its origins.
It is more than a little bit ironic that, throughout his career, Fauci fought against restrictions on gain-of-function research, casting those restrictions as counterproductive shackles on scientific progress. When a pandemic did finally break out, he would also be an ardent supporter of imposing the most restrictive controls on the general public.
"Elderly, stay out of society in self-isolation. Don't go to work if you don't have to," Fauci told Science in March 2020. "No bars, no restaurants, no nothing. Only essential services." When asked in July 2022 what he might have done differently during the pandemic, Fauci said he'd have recommended much stiffer restrictions.
Did Fauci, so revered as a man of science, have any evidence to support his program of lockdowns and social controls? His eventual admission in congressional testimony that the federal government's social distancing guidance was a guesstimate that "sort of just appeared"—and one that turned out to be ineffective at controlling the pandemic—bolsters the conclusion that the pandemic restrictions that shuttered schools, churches, businesses, and countless social gatherings were, in fact, ineffective tools of control. Indeed, most American efforts to control the pandemic proved ineffective: not just lockdowns and capacity restrictions, but also mask mandates, testing, and contact tracing.
If nothing else, Fauci's role in the pandemic—as a public health rock star with suspicious links to the virus's origin—is a lesson in the dangers of resting too much power and authority in the hands of any one official. Throughout the pandemic, Fauci's mantra was "follow the science." But in practice, that seems to have meant "follow Fauci." Too often, America did.
This article originally appeared in print under the headline "Fauci’s Pandemic."
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Not just blame him...imprison him.
In a shark cage with no flotation.
Blame the government.
Since the early 2000’s the leading Chinese virologist Doctor Shi Zhengli had been engineering Coronaviruses working in North Carolina with millions in US grants.
In 2014 the Obama administration initiated a temporary moratorium on “gain of function” engineering which enhances virus communicability and lethality. The COVID virus.
Shi moved back to Wuhan China with the virus to continue the engineering still with the US grants as funding.
In 2015 their careless behaviour released a SARS variant killing several people.
In 2017 the Trump administration rescinded the moratorium, which enabled new grants for gain of function engineering.
In 2018 US embassy inspectors were allowed to review the work in China’s only p4 virus lab which was located in Wuhan. They reported back that it was not secure and a SARS like global pandemic was likely to originate there.
The US government funded the development of COVID19, sent it to China and ignored their own warnings.
that would be awesome. Make it a Pay per View event.
That he walks free is a travesty. He should lose his pension and spend the rest of his days in hard prison labor. His actions have killed millions of people, but short term go after him for lying under oath, while developing the case for more serious crimes.
Just do to him what he did to those beagles.
He would just sue like all the people that were fired over the Trump/Russia hoax. Nothing changes until the Democrat party is dismantled and the Marxists purged.
Bring back pillory.
Ya don't say ... there are risks to actively trying to make viruses more dangerous, eh? Who'd have thunk.
"who struck a pleasing contrast to a chaotic Donald Trump recommending crank COVID cures in White House press conferences"
Except Trump didn't actually do that ... but you know that.
“Trump said drink bleach”, “Trump said swallow a UV light”, “Trump said take horse dewormer”.
All lies and serious misrepresentations, but even now we still have people like Christian pretending they're true.
And now hospitals across the US are using Ivermectin as a treatment for many viral infections, including for Covid, and it’s anti-inflammatory properties have proven to be effective.
How many millions of people were denied it’s therapeutic assistance because Trump repeated what one of the advising scientists said, and the press, desperate to fuck him over in the upcoming election, decided to lie about it?
Now even Chris Cuomo who’d once denigrated it on air, admits he was prescribed it for his latest Covid bout.
When they eventually hold the Covid Nuremberg trials they’ll need one just for the journalists who stopped an effective treatment through defamation because they wanted to smear Trump.
You are the one lying here. Christian did not say those things, and he did not repeat them here as true. He reported them as what Democrats said.
Read the second half of this article where he calls the claims of treatments that are not the vaccine are "radicalism and kookiness", even linking to Bailey, to dismiss alternate treatments.
https://reason.com/2022/01/24/d-c-s-anti-mandate-rally-devolves-into-an-anti-vaccine-rally/
MORE TESTING NEEDED!
Nothing ends a pandemic faster than a test with high false positive rate being passed around like candy.
I could give a rat's ass about what I was not complaining about. My complaint was about the specific sentence pretending Christian said something instead of reported what the Dems believe.
If you want to argue about something else, find a mirror or pick on sarc.
So it doesn’t matter what he has said in the past as you defend his honor? I searched and never saw Christian changing or admitting to changed views. One could assume he still holds them even if not saying so.
SGT is unburdened by the past.
Do you mean Dems like Christian? Those are the things he as well as MSNBC were standing on.
Your right, I misread it as his view.
But I do remember older articles with him conferring crankhood on the 'conspiracy theorists'.
Thank you. Yes, Christian believes nonsense, and spouts nonsense. He's no better than any other TDS-addled idiot in that regard.
Trump broke politics in the US, or more realistically, said the quiet part out loud, let the cat out of the bag, put the bull in the china shop. I despise Andrew Jackson for a lot of things, but that was one thing he did too.
Now explain that for a non-crazy person.
Christian did not say those things, and he did not repeat them here as true. He reported them as what Democrats said.
Dude, are you just now figuring out that most of the arguments against tReason for being Marxist and leftist is them reporting on what Democrats said and being accused of agreeing with it, because that's the only possible reason why they'd report on it?
You been living under a rock?
Poor sarc with another strawman/lie combo.
Except for the hundreds, perhaps thousands, of times you and others have attacked tReason for supporting whatever it was they were reporting on, as if reporting is agreeing. I got tired of pointing it out because the only result was you and your clique dogpiling on me like a bunch of immature teenagers.
You never do, they're always strawmen because you don't actually read the articles, and because:
1. You're a troll ("Hey! That's why I'm called 'sarcasmic").
2. You're an angry, bitter troll trying to get revenge on those who mocked your shitposts.
3. You're a drunk who can't remember his previous posts in the very same thread.
4. You're an angry, bitter dunk who picks fights and then acts like he's being bullied when people start punching back.
5. You're a fucking idiot who will instantly change his opinion if CNN or Lying Jeffy tells you otherwise.
Do you have a specific example of what you are strawmanning about? Or just going with the same strawman/lie combo?
You’ve even been told what the complaint is, their bias. By a dozen posters. But you persist with your strawman/lie combo. Almost daily.
Oh buzz off. You, jeffy, and butt plug are far worse than any Reason staffer, even Sullum and ENB are nowhere as bonkers as you.
All lies and serious misrepresentations
OMG! Lying and seriously misrepresenting what others say is your bread and butter in these comments! Someone does it to Trump and He’s the Victim. Yet you do it every single day. Then go around calling people hypocrites. Holy fuck that’s the funniest things I’ve ever seen you type! Fucking Christ, I'm glad I finished my coffee or it'd be all over the keyboard and monitor.
Cries about misrepresentation, goes on to misrepresent others.
Classic sarc.
Does your horsie get tired of galloping around as you defend members of your clique?
Fuck you, hypocrite. You've got your tongue so far up Jeffy and Shrike's assholes you can taste the kids on their breath.
Adding non sequiturs today. Gonna go through your entire playbook.
"Lying and seriously misrepresenting what others say is your bread and butter in these comments!"
Give us an example, troll. This is why we link to your old comments, because you lie about having said them when you shift narratives.
"So I asked Bill a question some of you are thinking of if you're into that world, which I find to be pretty interesting. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether its ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said, that hasn't been checked but you're gonna test it. And then I said, supposing it brought the light inside the body, which you can either do either through the skin or some other way, (To Bryan) and I think you said you're gonna test that too, sounds interesting. And I then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute, and is there a way you can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it'd be interesting to check that. So you're going to have to use medical doctors, but it sounds interesting to me, so we'll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it goes in one minute, that's pretty powerful."
None of that is “Trump said drink bleach”, “Trump said swallow a UV light”, “Trump said take horse dewormer”.
I was actually watching that press conference live. I can't recall EXACTLY what Trump said but there was no mistake in my mind he was insinuating consuming bleach/detergent in some fashion. The look on Blix's face was priceless and I actually yelled to the wife to come here you gotta get a load of this stupidity.
I agree. There are several things that do not get the coverage they deserve: 1. many people suffered, some died, because government bureaucrats and liars did all they could to prevent early treatment with effective anti-virals such as Ivermectin. 2. the 'vaccine' was never tested properly and lives were destroyed when smart/cautious people refused to be guinea pigs 3. there was never risk analysis done weighing the costs of mandates and lockdowns against their probable bad effects.
The author has done a fair job of including much of the evidence that Fauci is a lying criminal but backs off from a strong indictment. I can never decide if Reason is being reasonable or just being cautious after the 'misinformation' tyrants added them to their list of targets to be censored.
This article is 3 years late and still gets shit wrong
I was going to file this in my "shit Reason finally figured out after it doesn't matter anymore" folder but I ran out of hard drive memory.
Nice cherry picking. Here's what you left off:
Christian has his faults, but his uncensored sentence clearly shows he was writing what Democrats thought, not what Christian thought.
Stop being such an asshole.
Sarc will tell you saying what others think is wrong.
Is that you Christian?
Welcome to the Reason comments circa 2021, Britschigi.
But back then we were all dangerous conspiracy theorists being kicked off Twitter and Facebook for noticing, thanks to Biden administration requests.
THOSE WERE PRIVATE COMPANIES!
The answer is yes. He funded the research, lied about it, tried to cover it up and then pushed a false narrative for years. He then retired a very rich man from the money made off of the companies he was supposed to regulate and with the highest government pension in history.
Point out anything I said that is not a fact.
I'm against the death penalty, but it there was ever a man who deserved it, it is him.
He started gain of function bioweapon research on the Covid virus family, with a grant authorized by Dick Cheney himself via Homeland Security funding.
After a lab leak in the US, the Obama administration explicitly forbid him from continuing, so he snuck the research overseas.
He is more responsible than any other person on the planet for millions dying and the global economies destroyed.
He is more responsible than any other person on the planet
Well, there's some people in Wuhan who should get a big share of the blame. But they've had the sense to shut up and keep their heads down.
I hereby deputize you to go to China with search and arrest warrants. Please let us know how it goes!
Is there an expense account? It's possible they're hiding in the Lakes region of Northern Italy. Or maybe Tahiti.
More like in an unmarked grave behind some CCP facility on the outskirts of Wuhan.
There is no such thing as a perfectly safe technology. There is also no such thing as a scientific research study that is so dangerous that it cannot even be considered. The reality is somewhere in the middle where worthwhile or even critical research is conducted with the highest level of precautions available. This is what risk-benefit analysis is for, and sometimes accidents happen and unpredicted risks come back to bite us. The alternative is to remain in our dark caves at night because fire is too dangerous to scare the predators off. Having said that, the Wuhan virus research was totally unjustified, unjustifiable and criminal charges should be filed immediately.
There is also no such thing as a scientific research study that is so dangerous that it cannot even be considered.
It's doubtful you actually believe that, or you just haven't thought about it very hard.
It amounts to outright saying the only consideration for scientific research is 'can we' and 'should we' is totally off the table. The last century or so of history shows there is plenty of 'scientific research' that is far, far beyond the pale for a variety of reasons.
Nothing justifies the cover-up afterward. If the research is so important -- like Fauci said it was -- then be up front about doing it.
"There is also no such thing as a scientific research study that is so dangerous that it cannot even be considered."
We can consider it, but the answer is going to be "no" for some of this stuff. You want to create a black hole in a lab, and if it works we can get unlimited free energy? No. The drawback if it goes wrong is so large that the potential benefit doesn't matter anymore.
Yes. That was exactly what I meant. Thanks.
I’m totally for the death penalty, and would love to employ it much more often. Especially as it relates to treasonous Marxists and their collaborators, like Fauci.
Posted this yesterday on the roundup.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/09/10/there-is-now-no-doubt-that-covid-leaked-from-a-lab/
Yet the silence of members of the scientific establishment about even the possibility of a laboratory leak in Wuhan is deafening. They refuse to debate it – quite literally. The World Health Organisation studiously avoids talking about it. I tried to get the Royal Society to organise a debate: it’s not a suitable topic for discussion, it replied. I tried the Academy of Medical Sciences, of which I am a fellow: too controversial, it said. A former president of the Royal Society told me he hopes we never find out what happened, lest it annoy the Chinese. Would he have said the same about Bhopal, I wondered, or a plane crash?
I was recently invited by one of the editors of a prestigious scientific journal to write a scholarly paper setting out the case that it was a lab leak. I agreed. With Professor Anton van der Merwe of Oxford University, I detailed how it is no coincidence that this virus turned up in exactly the right city at exactly the right time as they were planning exactly the right experiments that would put exactly the right insertion into exactly the right place in exactly the right gene of exactly the right kind of virus. And to do so at exactly the wrong biosafety level.
Our paper had hundreds of references to back up our claim, yet the editors of the journal rejected it out of hand, claiming – entirely wrongly – that ‘there is no evidence of gain-of-function experiments at the Wuhan Institute of Virology’ (WIV). In fact, that institute has published papers since 2017 detailing their gain-of-function experiments on SARS-like viruses. Were the editors of the journal unaware of this?
Why is this topic taboo? Scientists in the West have become addicted to collaboration with China. They get students and money from China. Ten British universities rely on Chinese students for more than a quarter of their income. Scientific journals get rich on Chinese publication fees. Richard Horton, editor of the Lancet and recipient of a Friendship Award from the Chinese government, went on Chinese television early in the pandemic to say: ‘I think we have a great deal to thank China for, about the way that it handled the outbreak.’
I did not start out thinking Covid came from a lab. For the first few months of 2020, I went around telling colleagues in the UK parliament we could rule that out (I retired from the House of Lords in 2021). Why? Mainly because I read the paper in March 2020 called ‘The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2’ in the journal, Nature Medicine, which dismissed a lab leak. And I assumed that its authors knew what they were talking about.
Only later did I discover that I had been deceived: not only did their arguments fall apart on closer inspection but also they did not believe them themselves. We now know from congressional inquiries what the five virologists who authored the ‘proximal origin’ paper were saying to each other in private, while they drafted a paper that ruled out a lab leak. All five thought a lab leak was possible if not likely. One called it ‘friggin’ likely’, another ‘not crackpot’ and a third said ‘I literally swivel day by day thinking it is a lab escape or natural’.
They went on saying things like this even after the paper was published – so it’s not that they changed their minds in the light of new evidence (as they have since claimed). A whole month after publication, lead author Kristian Andersen wrote in a private message that, ‘I’m still not fully convinced that no cell culture was involved’ and ‘we also can’t fully rule out engineering’. Writing a scientific paper that says the opposite of what you think is the truth is scientific misconduct at the very least. The paper should be retracted.
Why did they do this? They made that clear too: it was political. Co-author Andrew Rambaut wrote privately: ‘Given the shit show that would happen if anyone serious accused the Chinese of even accidental release’, they dare not do so. Andersen agreed, saying it was impossible not to ‘inject’ politics into science.
Matt Ridley is unquestionably one of the most intelligent, informed and articulate advocates for free markets and open minds on the planet. He is also one of the most tenacious, honest and effective research journalists on the planet! Thank you Dr. Ridley ...
I dunno, I followed Ridley on Twitter for a long while and a number of times he parroted some items I am thoroughly convinced has been debunked. Such as the notion they used Kristian Anderson's grant as leverage for publication of Proximal Origin. Paper trails indicate that would be impossible as he already had the money by that time. If someone is using that in their argument I immediately discount them.
I agree however there are so much coincidental data you absolutely HAVE to have lab leak as a very strong possibility. But IMO Ridley is just an attention whore.
Looter bureaucrats do the same thing when televangelists stir up witchhunt claims that grass mutates your chromiums or LSD makes everyone jump out of tall buildings thinking they can fly. Scientist impersonators hired as tools simply add "could, might, possibly" and "studies suggest" to the same lies so lethal force can initiated with a patina of cautious reasonableness. It's always okay to shoot minorities in the name of cautious reasonableness. Stop resisting! BLAM!
Sqrlsy, come get your dad. He’s very confused and thinks it's still the 80’s.
Why did they do this? They made that clear too: it was political. Co-author Andrew Rambaut wrote privately: ‘Given the shit show that would happen if anyone serious accused the Chinese of even accidental release’, they dare not do so. Andersen agreed, saying it was impossible not to ‘inject’ politics into science.
Not to exculpate the Chinese exactly but this is really the issue. Not entirely.
As I've said previously, since about the time Ron Bailey was freaking out about Zika, the more likely a pandemic in the future imperils all mankind, the more likely it is of man made origin. The more complicated and elaborate, i.e. novel, the more likely of government or similar origin.
" struck a pleasing contrast to a chaotic Donald Trump recommending crank COVID cures in White House press conferences"
This again? Even Politifact says that's not what happened.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jul/11/joe-biden/no-trump-didnt-tell-americans-infected-coronavirus/
You too are censoring Christian's sentence to twist it for your agenda. Here's what you left off:
He is reporting what Democrats said, not what he believes.
If you have to lie to get your point across, it shows you have no reliable point. You are pulling a Fauci, a Michael Man, a Biden.
Is this you Christian? The post youre responding to makes no judgement on you.
Except Christian was one of those Democrats taking Dr Mengela at face value when he was plainly lying.
I assumed he was one of those Democrats; didn't he strategically but reluctantly vote for Biden?
Harris is *still* parroting some of that stuff in ads. "From mean tweets to drinking bleach" sounds like a parody of an anti-Trump ad, but they actually went with that line.
Fauci is the poster child of government incompetence. He is the reason government should be a small as possible and have as little resources as possible at its disposal. How could anyone pursue research that has such asymmetric risk? What is the upside to GOF virus research?
What is the upside to GOF virus research?
It got the preferred candidate elected.
I think that was the whole point.
Not just incompetence. Fauci is the face of government authorities eagerly fucking with and fucking over us citizens.
It showed that a vaccine, of sorts, could be rapidly developed to directly detect and address the unique portion of the GOF virus.
Weapons. Drugs "banned" so they can sell for four times as much without taxes, regulation or product liability are a lively going concern. Same goes for weapons. Think about it. "Our" looter kleptocracy is just as fixated on the initiation of force as the mystical and collectivist satrapies with which it constantly stirs up antagonism. Just as drug laws put the market into the hands of organized police, so weapons "treaties" do the parallel thing. They also brand disobedient Filipinos and South Americans as "terrorists" conventions don't protect.
I came here to say that in almost all facets of life, one need not be an expert in a field to get some idea of what is true and what is not; one need only look at who is telling the truth and who is lying. People who lie to support their cause do so because the have no truth on their side. Fauci is a prime example, so is Michael Mann, and just about all politicians do nothing but lie. Saying Harris lies more than Biden who lies more than Trump doesn’t mean that Trump tells the truth, but it does mean he’s less distant from the truth than Biden and Harris.
And lookie here! Commenters cherry-picking (what an appropriate term considering the other Saturday morning article) what Christian said to make it appear Christian believes lies, when all he really did was report, truthfully, what Democrats said, and still say.
You know who you are. Telling porkies just makes you look like liars who haven’t got truth on your side. Are sarspastic, jeffy, and butt plug your mentors? If you don't like the comparison, then don't follow their examples. JesseAZ and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of things, but he's the example you want to follow. Get some integrity if you want to actually help our cause.
what Christian said to make it appear Christian believes lies, when all he really did was report, truthfully, what Democrats said, and still say.
It’s poor wording on Christian’s part.
I also just linked to a prior article of his where he marginalized the doctors promoting alternate treatments in 2022.
It is appropriate for commenters to marginalize opinions that they think are false, especially if those opinions are far away from the mainstream. It may turn out that strange opinions are, in fact, true - in which case the rest of us should own up to our mistakes and change our minds. Context does matter though. If you say that "some doctors are recommending treatment X" then slamming them is excessive. If they say "the pharmaceutical companies don't want you to know about treatment X because it works better than their own proprietary treatment" then slamming conspiracy theories is quite appropriate until such time as the accusation is proven.
Ah, there's the rub. What one considers proven might not be convincing to the one who thinks it a conspiracy theory. So the conflict remains and slamming conspiracy theories is almost always considered justified.
Remember - the propaganda press and other democrats will never accept anything 'proven' if it torpedoes their conspiracy theory narrative.
Yeah you can read it either way. Don't know why SGT is so obsessed about it. But I'm willing to give Christian (if that is in fact his real name) the benefit of the doubt. But the reality is that Reason, including Christian have a very poor track record on this subject.
Agree. Exactly so!
And lookie here! Commenters cherry-picking (what an appropriate term considering the other Saturday morning article) what Christian said to make it appear Christian believes lies,
Irony since you made this claim just above about a post that doesn't mention nor judge Christian.
No, of course it doesn't. Why cherry pick except to twist the meaning?
Did you not attack a poster for criticizing Christian who in fact did not?
New theory: SGT is Christian.
Reason should have convention in Vegas. I would love to meet all the columnists face to face, as I’m sure many of you would too. Which is probably why it will never happen.
Ever wonder how researchers were able to determine the best part of the virus to produce with their ModRNA (mRNA with N1 Methylpseudouridines substituted for Uridines) for their original vaccines so quickly? Turns out, it’s roughly the same genetic sequence inserted into a SARS type bat coronavirus by the Wuhan researchers – the S1 and S2 spike generating code. The six insertion points were easily detected, and these spike proteins, by necessity, are carried on the outside of the virus’ capsid, because they are what attach (S1) to cells and gain entry (S2) to them, and are thus visible to the immune system. This is another reason why we know that the virus was created in a lab, because these spike proteins are optimized for attaching to human ACE2 receptors, and the sequences are clean, without the genetic residue that would have remained from a zoonotic jump. Besides, that was exactly what was proposed in the rejected DARPA DEFUSE grant proposal by EcoHealth Alliance.
Not to mention that the Wuhan Virology Lab patented their own vaccine in March 2020 which might be considered to have been nearly impossible if they had just become aware of the new virus in December 2019!
Agree. The statement A profit-seeking private sector would never touch the kinds of research that was being done by EcoHealth Alliance in Wuhan, he argues. The odds that such research will identify the next pandemic virus and develop a profitable vaccine or therapeutic for it, he says, are too low for even the most starry-eyed venture capitalist. in the article seems utter nonsense.
Both BionTech (founded 2008) and Moderna (founded 2010) were funded by DARPA (under their ADEPT program). Those funded human mRNA research/trials for rabies, Zika, flu, etc well over a decade ago.
Sounds like right wing conspiracy to me.
One day you are condemning those crazy conspiracy theorists, then facts change, and the next day you're pointing out the same theories but still have to condemn those crazy conspiracy theorists.
"Just because you ended up being correct doesn't mean you were right."
Is Fauci responsible for the COVID pandemic?
Was Tokyo Rose responsible for the Pacific War?
We can argue about degrees and capabilities, but both deserve ritual suicide.
Fauci started the Covid gain-of-function research personally/himself using funding from a Homeland Security bill.
When the virus escaped a US lab around 2010 the Obama administration told him (Fauci) to shut it down. He didn't and secretly moved it to overseas facilities instead, including the Wuhan lab.
The whole time he was pretending it came from tanukis in a Chinese farmers market he new damn well that the whole thing was conceived and enacted by him.
Fauci wasn't Tokyo Rose. He was the Japanese Emperor.
Not enough honor to deserve a kaishakunin.
I think that it is an inappropriate comparison. The argument is that Fauci helped fund the WIV to create the SARS-2 virus, through Ecohealth Alliance, in order to engage in Gain of Function research. Tokyo Rose was just an instrumentality of the Japanese empire. No different, really, than one of their battleships or aircraft carriers.
The problem isn't Fauci, it's the system that made Fauci not just possible, but inevitable. When a bureaucracy has power, the worst people end up at the top. This is hardly a new phenomenon, Hayek wrote about it more than 75 years ago and even he wasn't the first.
Fauci deserves prison for breaking the law, bribing and threatening those who opposed him and for ultimately contributing to the deaths of millions of people. He will not face any consequences for his perfidy because of the very system that enabled him. If his fellow bureaucrats and politicians allow him to be punished, they will be establishing the principle that could destroy themselves - justice applied to the powerful.
The ultimate answer isn't "Death to Fauci", it's "Death to the NIAID", "Death to the NIH", "Death to the CDC", "Death to Homeland Security", and most importantly, death to the reason that these bureaucrats aren't recognized for what they are, the institution that installs the blinders on American children: "Death to the Public Education".
He is Dr. Ferris of Atlas Shrugged. The nobel ‘valet’ of “The Science”
The ultimate answer isn’t “Death to Fauci”, it’s “Death to the NIAID”, “Death to the NIH”, “Death to the CDC”, “Death to Homeland Security”, and most importantly, death to the reason that these bureaucrats aren’t recognized for what they are, the institution that installs the blinders on American children: “Death to the Public Education”.
+1 As above, going forward, the odds that a humanity-ending pandemic is of government or man-made origin going forward only increases as the global cultural assimilation/homogenization increases.
If you want to lock down a functioning society plausibly, that society needs to be on the verge of lockdown in perpetuity and everyone coming or going to or from that society needs to be naturalized to those norms. That, of course, doesn’t mean every society has to be on the verge of lockdown, but you can’t have “Borders are a figment of imagination.” and “Oh, the Haitians are *not* eating pet cats.” on Monday and “Everybody needs to present proof of vaccination and get their temperature checked at the door.” on Tuesday.
Historian writing fifty years from now may be able to accurately assess Dr. Fauci’s role in the pandemic. The attacks made on him now are really attempts to cover-up the incompetency of Trump Administration in handling the pandemic. It is pretty par for the course for Trump to find someone else to blame.
This piece assumes the origin was a lab leak something that is not definitively proven. It also overlooks the real problem less the origin of the Covid pandemic and more that was the poor response.
Those wouldn't be far left, pro state historians would they? Howard Zinns great grand son by chance?
You're correct. What this article does is repackage idiot propaganda. It's meat for stupid people, and the purpose of the propaganda is to deflect blame from Trump's incompetence in addressing the pandemic.
BTW- it was Trump who lifted the moratorium on gain-of-function research. Somehow that never gets mentioned in the propaganda.
Would love to see this citation as Fauci was denying he was pursuing gain of function research, which wouldn’t be needed if it was made legal.
My guess is you’re referring to this, for which Trump had no impetus for.
https://www.nih.gov/about-nih/who-we-are/nih-director/statements/nih-lifts-funding-pause-gain-function-research
The study to lift the pause was done as a requirement set under Obama. Note the word pause on their very declaration.
Oh. And this is awkward as well.
https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/obama-quietly-deceitfully-reauthorized-gain-of-function-research-days-before-leaving-office/
The impetus for the above change.
Is there a viable case for a manslaughter prosecution against Obama?
Oh, I didn't know that, here I was hailing him as a hero for having shut it down initially.
I am wondering if manslaughter charges against Obama would be viable.
Well actually murder charges if you include that kid he drone killed.
I am pretty sure that recent Trump case would give him immunity; he was acting officially and within the duties of his office.
Hard to find the links that acknowledged it. Part of that whole covid misinformation cover up they ran blaming Trump. But quite a few placed covered it.
"You’re correct"
No he isn't. You're both trying to pretend you weren't duped by a beyond obvious con, just because CNN said it wasn't.
Not even the WHA is still saying what you're saying.
"...It’s meat for stupid people, and the purpose of the propaganda is to deflect blame from Trump’s incompetence in addressing the pandemic..."
What's meat from stupid people is your obvious raging case of TDS, steaming pile of shot.
FOAD, asshole, and take your TDS with you.
That does fit the pattern. GB brutally enslaved India into a huge opium source to get Chinese addicts to pay for running the place. The Qing told the East India Company to leave. Suddenly capital fled the US to arm British vessels for an attack on China, and American politicians blamed Jackson and Biddle. Afghan resistance came to the aid of a neighbor, so the Brits concocted a Manifesto making themselves the victims of misguided superstition. Brits to this day repeat tales of Naygurs terrified that rifle bores were greased with pork fat and tallow. Then and now, truth is the first victim of war.
Just kill yourself.
Maybe someday a long time from now…but back to Trump.
That’s right, protect your team, you dissembling gas lighting son of a bitch.
We all know people who have risen in an organization through office politics, far beyond their original qualifications. The recent Secret Service failings just add to the understanding that the ability to support the approved policies and speak the current cant are the highway to success in a bureaucratic setting.
Why would anyone have expected Fauci to be an exception?
Recent realpolitik Secret Service priorities show that it is a really stupid idea to stand on platforms that call for enslaving and killing women via cowardly coercion of physicians.
So it's cool to assassinate girlbulliers Hank?
"stand on platforms that call for enslaving and killing women via cowardly coercion of physicians."
What the fuck does this even mean?
"Should We Blame Fauci for the COVID Pandemic?"
From what we now know, it seems he should be held accountable for some millions of deaths, directly attributable to the research he funded (with our money), and further indirectly accountable for the economic and social damage caused by the fucking ignoramuses who assumed they could shut down an economy (and schooling) and restart them just as easily.
The man caused greater harm than any single person I can think of outside of Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot or Hitler.
I’m fine with burning Fauci at the stake. Especially if the fire is controlled to burn him slowly, oh so slowly.
There is no "accumulated evidence of lab leak."
Reason is joining the ranks of the conspiracy cranks and morons with this one.
Actually, there is plenty of evidence of lab creation, and none for a zoonotic leap from another species. Even the location where the virus was discovered is significant - Wuhan, China, home of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the largest depository in the world for bat viruses of this type, but 1,000 miles from the nearest known relative of this virus. And despite significant searching, no viruses genetically between those relatives and the SARS-2 virus were ever found anywhere in that 1,000 miles. Yet other similar viruses, such as SARS-1, MERS, etc were easily tracked. Then there are the six genetic engineering insertion points around the novel genetic code in the virus, no genetic residue from the zoonotic jump to humans, and then the mutations to uniquely target Human ACE2 receptors.
Face it. There was never any evidence of a zoonotic origin of this virus. None. It was deliberate misinformation from the first, first by Chinese officials in Wuhan, then its province, then China itself, along with top public health officials, like Fauci, in our country, followed by the WHO, under pressure by both of our governments.
There is evidence pointing at a zoonotic origin, including fairly close cousins of SAR-CoV-2 in the wild.
There is zero evidence of lab leak. The things you list aren't even true: they're just antivaxx and whackjob inventions peddled by grifters on the internet to gullible morons.
SARs and MERs weren't "easily tracked." Seriously: get new sources of information. The ones you're currently using are making you more ignorant than living in a cave isolated from all communication would.
"There is no “accumulated evidence of lab leak.”
Well there's a whopper if I ever saw one. No evidence except all the freedom of informationed NHS and Fauci emails saying so, eleven independent studies saying it is likely man made, and statements from the FBI and now the NHS.
It takes a special kind of willful, cultivated ignorance, sticking your head in the sand so deep you hit bedrock, to make that kind of statement in 2024.
There is nothing in those emails which is evidence Sars-CoV-2 was created in a lab or came from a lab.
'It was a bunch of dirty foreign peasants eating weird ethnic foods in completely unsanitary conditions, not an accidental containment breach at a sophisticated science laboratory, you fucking racists'
- the Left
He should be put on trial for sure, but I don't know what to charge him with. Problem is that he's on Team Government so no prosecutors would ever touch it.
My how facts change in just a year.
sarcasmic 1 year ago
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Mute User
All those murderous doctors need to be prosecuted for murder. I mean, they intentionally hooked up people with mild colds onto these machines that killed them just so they could get a few federal dollars.
This is totally plausible being that the entire medical community is in on it. You can tell that they’re all in on the hoax because they claim the vaccine is effective while people with no medical knowledge are certain that it doesn’t to jack.
It’s a good thing you’re putting this out there. Those murderous doctors need to be identified and then shot on sight along with every medical professional who says the vaccine works.
That was you defending against calls to prosecute the covid response, including fauci.
sarcasmic 4 months ago
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Mute User
That explains why the science of mRNA vaccines is over 30 years old. That’s brand spanking new and experimental. And leftist. Can’t forget to call it leftist. Along with Operation Warp Speed. That was leftist too.
Still defending vaccines as old science. Screw those safety trials right?
sarcasmic 3 years ago
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Mute User
Either the vaccine is 100% safe and effective, or there is no point in taking it at all. If you say it’s a good idea then you’re saying it’s 100% safe and effective, and you’re wrong. Just to prove it people who’ve been vaccinated have died of the disease. That means it’s a joke. It doesn’t work at all for anyone. It’s all a big lie being pushed by Democrats who want to take away our freedoms. Don’t you know anything?
And again when people point out the lies Fauci told about the vaccine.
sarcasmic 3 years ago
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Mute User
Weren’t you just putting down the left for opposing Trump’s mask mandates? Make up your mind.
Calling masking a Trump mask mandate.
Want me to go on? I can get into you defending covid censorship next if you want.
Go on. Please. Show everyone how much of your life is wrapped up in bookmarking comments I made years ago so you can use them to claim what I say now is a lie. Show how much rent-free time I spend in your head. Show how you despise people who change their minds. Show that my thoughts and opinions evolve with the facts while your mind is a steel trap. Show how you have no life and no friends outside of these comment. Show what a pathetic loser you are. Please.
While you're at it, see if you can dig back enough to find how your hatred of me began with you spending nights and weekends arguing with my impersonator who knew I only posted while I was bored at work, and took advantage of that. How you haven't had a life for years and years and years.
I won’t read any of it because I’m going to get along with my day. Life calls.
You should be flattered that a Hoppe scholar is paying you this level of attention.
Only Hoppe's I have is in my gun cleaning kit.
I've got people to do and things to see. Have a good weekend.
Since bookmark folder is open.
sarcasmic 3 years ago
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Mute User
I don’t carry a gun. I’m not a great shot and I lack training. Doing so would be inviting trouble that I don’t know how to handle.
Do you scream guns because you think it makes you look libertarian?
Above quote is from the thread you said it sucked Rittenhouse was found not guilty by the way.
You really are a little faggot coward. You’re caught dead to rights, and now you hadn’t have time to respond.
Bullshit, all you do is get drunk and post here you fucking alcoholic welfare queen. But now you’re beaten, so you run away.
Sarc will blame Tulpa in 3... 2... 1...
I still have yet to see you ever quote a single libertarian despite your constant assertions you are so well learned.
I always love how the true libertarians always dismiss libertarians scholars they have been told to hate by liberals without ever reading them.
Makes you guys look so serious.
Better to just call yourself libertarian while repeating marxist/liberal open border talking points.
Will be amazed when any of you fake libertarians actually post an intelligent rebuttal.
You reeeaaaally need to find a better hobby. pathetic
It would be much easier if you just admitted you were wrong instead if continuing to defend the state and calling those who were right conspiracy theorists. You even managed to do it once. A single time.
sarcasmic 1 year ago
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Mute User
The I guess I’m wrong.
Just not in regards to your deference to the state during covid.
Dude, how much time do you spend “bored at work”?
I mean, are you even necessary? You being thoroughly unneeded would explain a lot.
“I only do about 15 minutes of real work every week.” - Peter gibbons. Lol.
"My how facts change in just a year."
And how imbecilic piles of lefty shit don't.
If you’re going to be reasonable there’s the one about lying to Congress during an investigation. IANAL but I think it’s 18 U.S. Code § 1001 (c)(2). That could get him five years max.
If you’re going for total lawfare there’s 18 U.S. Code § 175 – “Whoever knowingly develops, produces, stockpiles, transfers, acquires, retains, or possesses any biological agent, toxin, or delivery system for use as a weapon, or knowingly assists a foreign state or any organization to do so…” or alternatively " knowingly possesses any biological agent, toxin, or delivery system of a type or in a quantity that, under the circumstances, is not reasonably justified by a prophylactic, protective, bona fide research". Ten years to life.
“government funding itself is a big part of the problem. A profit-seeking private sector would never touch the kinds of research that was being done by EcoHealth Alliance in Wuhan”
I hate to have to point out that this is precisely the issue here. I am not in the libertarian camp that believes that there is no role for government at all in society. Although I certainly would not support top-secret bio-weapons use in a war by the United States, Fauci is correct that bio-weapons research is appropriate for the purpose of developing defenses to counter the use of bio-weapons by an enemy against us. And some very risky research still must be conducted for legitimate medical purposes using naturally dangerous biologic agents that skirts close to the edge of “weaponizing” them.
Of course it was downright idiotic to conduct that kind of research in the Proletariat Dictatorship of China even without lax supervision using mad-scientist-grade intermediaries! A pause on dangerous research while evaluating strategies to reduce the risk to the public makes a lot of sense to most of us, but that was what induced the mad scientists to make unacceptably risky research even more dangerous in this case. Biologic weapons research should only be conducted at Fort Detrick with the highest level of containment technology and procedures, or closely supervised at American facilities using reputable scientists with a similar level of protection.
Fauci may not have intended to cause a disastrous pandemic by promoting this research, but negligent homicide comes to mind, and I would be quite happy to see him charged with that for now.
So the best case for Fauci is that some bio-weapons research is necessary, so he contracted that research out to a likely enemy of the USA? Didn't you just make a case for hanging him for treason?
"...But he couldn't recall specific examples..."
Well, in that case, he was just an over-worked bureaucrat who can't be blamed for several million deaths, right?
True
I nominate Fauci for scapegoat as the Dems have been tools of communism since Nixon made it fashionable. Jack London's Unparalleled Invasion the Chicoms--organized around the idea that white devils poison them with foreign drugs--prompted China to arm with every weapon. The Spanish Flu showed that Americans' reaction to a quiet bioweapons attack is to fly at each others' throats. Communivirus verified the experiment. Fauci, unlike the Chicoms, has zero nuclear and bioweapons. So it is safer to pick on him. Ask any cowardly looter in Congress.
How did he handle AIDS?
Well enough to put him in a government position where he hasn't had to work a day in his life ever since.
Killed effective low cost treatments to favor expensive pharma drugs that killed kids.
Kind of a trend with this guy.
He also shut down school drinking fountains for a couple of years based on a faulty premise without evidence to support it.
He opposed research into AIDS treatments to pursue a vaccine - against a virus that mutated very quickly, so any vaccine would be ineffective by the time it was in production.
With COVID he repeated the same mistake - with the twist that it might be possible to change MRNA vaccines quickly enough to keep up with corona virus mutations, if one skipped the safety and effectiveness testing. And the further twist that the anti-viral treatments or preventatives he opposed even testing were already in our pharmacopeia.
And this just in! The prestigious award has been announced!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=122138114228304053&set=p.122138114228304053&type=3
I would consider Fauci to be, on the scale of evil, just below Dr. Mengele.
His sadistic experiments on dogs and even children indicate a level of pathology found only in serial killers and street thugs. He exhibits a dangerous psychopathology in which, no matter what the outcome of his experiments, no matter how much harm is being done, he rewards himself and worse yet, has the ability to lie about it and convince others, mostly stupid, gullible people, that what he did was cause for good.
Fauci deserves a trial in a world court room, much the same as Dr. Mengele received and his reward should be the same as Mengele's. The trial should be televised and broadcast to every corner of the world so the people can see the real Anthony Fauci: a lying, scheming, psychopath with delusions of grandeur and lack of responsibility for his own actions.
Well said. The dude is a psychopath.
He represents psychopathy.
On top of it all he's an HRC sycophant. What better way to announce to the world one's comfort with corruption.
I would suggest that he also suffers from a narcissistic personality disorder but maybe Dr. Todd Grande can offer up a more succinct explanation.
Either way he is one evil person.
I guess Gillespie sent out an email saying this topic is safe.
Anyhoo, here's Dad Saves America, talking to Jay Bhajttacharya.
It's always a pleasure to listen to top-tier professors willing to call out establishment baloney.
However much you loathe and distrust the corporate media, you don't loathe and distrust them enough.
Summary: Youtuber Matt Christianson does reporting on Venezuelan gang who took over and was terrorizing residents at an apartment in Aurora, Colorado.
USA Today does story on youtuber, suggesting that claim has been "largely disproven". Homeland Security then confirms that 10 members of the Venezuelan gang have been arrested for terrorizing and running roughshod over the residents at that apartment, the city of Aurora confirms it, and the local police confirms it. Rando youtuber contacts USA Today reporter directly, looking for clarification or retraction in her reporting. She then shifts the goalposts and says that the claims "that the Venezuelan gang had taken over the city ARE largely disproven". Youtuber notes that he never claimed the gang had "taken over the city" and that she was goal-post shifting. She responds to him saying that his communications with her are threatening, she feels bullied and unsafe, sets her account to private.
Youtuber contacts USA Today editors, asks them three direct, polite questions about the accuracy of their reporting, they respond they 'stand by their reporting'.
Sounds like he's got a lawsuit for Defamation. She's aware her claims were false, her bosses are aware her claims are false, and none of them are willing to backtrack.
Does anybody still buy and read that rag?
Honestly....USA Today??!!
The entire staff is made up of Taylor Lorenze wannabes.
I shared this article on usenet newsgroups.
Join the discussion there.
https://uk.legal.narkive.com/8KQ6mqEU/should-we-blame-fauci-for-the-covid-pandemic
Never been to that site and pretty sure I'll never be back. I've been accused of going off topic and have been guilty as charged. But JFC. These people are fucking insane.
As big a story as it gets, and it is virtually unexamined. One wonders what other big events have been hidden or falsely reported by journalists over the decades.
Perhaps some system of fact-checking is in order.
Fact checking only goes in one direction, especially if you’re an ABC News debate moderator.
Curious to see where this affidavit about collusion goes. Haven't seen enough to prove it for me (despite it fitting neatly with what we've seen.) It would be nice if the media reported this so that normies at least hear what should be a scandal. I don't think it changes anything, but we need more honesty in media
If the coming election leads to a Republican executive, Senate and House, there is a very slim chance that Fauci could be prosecuted for federal crimes. I'm not hopeful. But if the Democrats are in charge it will never happen.
There is virtually no chance of Fauci being prosecuted, let alone even investigated. It's one of those Pandora's box thingies where if you open it, the ugliness would metastasize so far and wide, no one would dare touch it.
There is virtually no chance of Fauci being prosecuted because there is no evidence of any wrongdoing on his part. Republicans, as they frequently do, are trying to prosecute him in public because there is no real case for a court of law.
There is virtually no chance of Fauci being prosecuted, let alone even investigated.
There's nothing in the box.
Have you looked in the box?
No, because there's no evidence there's anything in the box.
I'd like to look in the box.
*blocks box* You can't.
The House did investigate, the Republican led committee did criticized Dr. Fauci but never found any criminal behavior.
Well he lied to congress under oath. That's a federal crime. But the Biden DOJ only prosecutes Republicans for that.
Except for the fact that he did not lie. That he and members of the investigating committee, Senator Paul most notably, disagree does not means that Dr. Fauci was lying. Again, you can call that a lie in public, but you can take that to court, it will not hold up.
UR F.O.S.
https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
Dr Fauci told the Senate hearing the research in question “has been evaluated multiple times by qualified people to not fall under the gain-of-function definition”.
He just as well said he’s not a person he’s a bus.
I can't believe how retarded you leftards can get.
Funny. It's pretty obvious he flat-out lied to congress on first account.
But Rick James is right; Start prosecuting LIES in D.C. and whole government might end up prosecuted.
Lol. Imagine being so gullible and incurious as M4e.
Good boy.
+1 Again, as I indicated above and back since zika. Going forward, if a virus ends or nearly ends all of humanity, it will be of man-made origin and will function and/or generally be successful explicitly via global 'diversity is our strength' cultural homogenization.
You can't simultaneously think lockdowns are effective and necessary and then impugn Viktor Orban. You can't just assume people will observe masking and bio-safety norms and then shrug off Haitians strangling geese in the park.
More low level, we're all going to die. Science isn't going to save us. Even if scientists invented the monkey's paw tomorrow and we could all say "I don't want to die of cancer, I don't want to die of heart disease, and I don't want to die of infectious disease." It's still the monkey's paw. You're going to die of muscle wasting or neurological degeneration or skeletal degeneration or progressive organ failure or similar. "I want to be 22 yrs. old forever." isn't in the cards for virtually anyone. Even for the exceptionally gifted and fortunate, "I want to be 22 yrs. old until I'm 32 yrs. old." is a pretty fortuitous outcome.
Where's the class-action wrongful death lawsuit? Pretty sure avoiding government rules and procedures should undermine any QI claims.
There's plenty of blame to go around. He's got a good share of it.
Um.... Fauci didn't fund anything.
He STOLE with Gov-Guns from working citizens and shoveled that stolen money into helping create a deadly virus in China.
Yes; Fauci and every other politician who BREAKS the Supreme Law of the Land should be impeached by all members of Congress who SWORE to the people they'd uphold their law over them by oath of office.
Wow guys, welcome to 2022.
I was extremely disappointed with the libertarian establishment in April of 2020. I mean this was a layup in terms of what a libertarian should think about what was going on, but that establishment was largely silent on the lurch toward authoritarianism. So I'm not impressed with trying to hold people accountable now in 2024.
I mean as if any of what went on would be okay if COVID didn't come from a lab.
He is a criminal and a reprehensible human.
He should be in prison awaiting the carrying out of his sentence...
Should We Blame Fauci for the COVID Pandemic?
YES!
Fauci and all those around the world who participated in the wave of global totalitarianism over the bio weapon need to face Hague trials for crimes against humanity (a capital charge).
I'm not even going to read the article. My answer is yes!