What Causes Capitalism?
British economist Geoffrey M. Hodgson argues private property and individual enterprise fueled the Great Enrichment.

The Wealth of a Nation: Institutional Foundations of English Capitalism, by Geoffrey M. Hodgson, Princeton University Press, 304 pages, $39.95
A galaxy of brilliant scholars have tried to account for the economic transformation of England in the 18th and early 19th centuries—the period that began the Great Enrichment that created the modern world. What could Geoffrey M. Hodgson's The Wealth of a Nation add to this mountain of scholarship and disputation?
Quite a lot. Building on his earlier work, especially 2015's Conceptualising Capitalism, the British economist argues that the Great Enrichment and the associated rise of liberalism stemmed from institutional change, particularly a legal and political system that protects property and contracts and provides a secure space for individual enterprise. He combines that view (which owes much to the Nobel-winning economist Douglass North) with a redefinition of capital and capitalism, where he draws on Joseph Schumpeter, Thorstein Veblen, and other heterodox economists.
Hodgson criticizes the definition of capital used by the great majority of economists and historians, in which the word means physical goods used to produce other goods or services. He argues instead that it properly refers to the purchasing power used to acquire those goods, whether as cash or as credit. This makes finance and financial institutions central to capitalism. It also makes capitalism historically unique: a modern phenomenon that is distinct from the different sorts of markets and property relations that have existed in civilizations throughout history.
In Hodgson's account, the critical shift stemmed from legal institutional changes (including the Financial Revolution of the 1690s) that made it possible both to access more capital and to create it essentially from nothing. One central innovation was the amendment of land title law and enforcement to enable far more mortgage finance. The main process here, which took a considerable time to take hold and is not yet fully complete, was the replacement of older feudal forms and rules of tenure by more straightforward title.
These shifts did not just make the pooling and collection of capital easier. They made it possible to effectively bring credit from the future into the present: You could secure credit against the income that would flow from future production to mobilize resources to create that production, then use the eventual income to service and liquidate the credit. Hodgson argues that growth was held back by a shortage of capital until the middle of the 19th century, when the changes were sufficiently advanced.
***
This story, making finance the driver of economic modernization and making legal institutional reform the factor enabling finance, means that Hodgson has to engage with several rival accounts. One rival theory is that of Karl Marx, who saw class conflict as the driving force of historical change. Hodgson essentially accepts much of Marx's analysis of how a capitalist society's social relations work, but he rejects Marx's theory of history and his account of the relation between material productive processes and social relationships.
Hodgson also rejects four other theories of the origins and nature of modern capitalism. The first, which sees technology as the autonomous source of economic growth and modernity, is represented mainly by the ideas of the Texas economist Clarence Ayres. The second is Max Weber's thesis linking capitalism to the change in outlook and psychology brought by Protestantism. The third is Deirdre McCloskey's argument attributing the Great Enrichment to the proliferation of liberal values and ideas, such as respect for trade and business as ways of life, welcoming innovation rather than fearing it, and simply allowing wide limits for people to do and think what they like. The fourth, associated with Joel Mokyr, combines cultural and technological explanations.
Of these rival accounts, those of McCloskey and Mokyr are closest to Hodgson's and yet most different. Both share Hodgson's belief in the historical uniqueness of modern capitalism (though McCloskey prefers not to call it that) and both date its emergence to the mid-17th century. But both reject his central thesis that legal institutions are the fundamental factor in this historical rupture.
The problem with Mokyr's arguments, as Hodgson says, is that they rely on a series of seemingly fortuitous and unexplained shifts or innovations. With McCloskey, however, the debate is more of a draw, coming down to a possibly unresolvable dispute about what counts as necessary and what as sufficient. McCloskey notes that the institutions that North and others point to had been around for centuries without creating capitalism, so they could be only a necessary condition, not a sufficient one; the institutions had to be combined with a shift in outlook to launch the Great Enrichment.
Hodgson counters that these cultural changes would have had no effect without the institutions—and that the institutions that underlay the emergence of modern credit-based capitalism were themselves novel, coming about only in a specific place at a certain time. The weakness of Hodgson's account is that it implies there is a suite of institutional rules that will drive the emergence of a modern capitalism unless there are very powerful countervailing forces. That is surely optimistic, and McCloskey's argument that institutions require a particular cultural and ideological milieu to have economic results is well-taken.
A specific challenge is the case of Japan, which independently saw the emergence of a recognizable type of modern capitalism at the same time that England did. This is not a problem for McCloskey, because her model can be easily applied to Tokugawa Japan (with Chonindo, a form of neo-Confucianism that valorized the "way of the merchant," playing the role played in Europe by Anglo-Dutch liberalism). It is more of a challenge for Hodgson—hence a section of the book that argues that a similar set of institutions and financial arrangements emerged under the Tokugawa. This section is suggestive, but because of its relative brevity it is not fully worked out.
***
That said, this is a well-written book with a clear argument, and it adds something important to our understanding of how the first modern economy came into being. Its arguments for emphasizing the role of finance and for defining capital as money or purchasing power are very convincing. And it points the way to further questions, a research agenda that we can hope Hodgson himself will pursue while inspiring other researchers to do likewise.
They could, for example, explore finance's role in economic modernization in more detail by examining the different forms it has taken in different countries and how this in turn generates varied forms of business organization. The way large-scale and readily accessible finance transformed business structures during the Belle Epoque of 1870 to 1914 is worthy of a large book itself. Another topic to explore is the relationship between the precise forms taken by capitalist social relations and the monetary and financial systems in place. Another would be the ways that some countries, including England, are still hampered by feudal remnants and by the continuing economic and political weight of the landed aristocracy.
Many historians might push back against Hodgson's claim that capitalism, as he defined it, is found only in the modern world. Here we may draw on a theorist who Hodgson does not discuss, the French historian Fernand Braudel. For Braudel, capitalism was built around and defined by finance in the way Hodgson describes. But he saw it as a recurrent phenomenon, something that appeared at various points in history as an occasional outgrowth or superstructure of market relationships. This would mean that the institutions Hodgson sees as unprecedented when they emerged in early modern England were in fact only the latest instance of something that had happened several times before—for example, in Antonine Rome, Gupta India, Abbasid Iraq, and Song China.
But if this is correct, we must also conclude that those previous episodes did not sustain themselves. That in turn poses a question that Hodgson does not explore: whether capitalism as he defines it can persist indefinitely.
One possible response to that question—another part of the research agenda this book should inspire—would be to study the social and legal position of finance in different times and places. In most cultures, finance is feared and mistrusted, precisely because of its solvent effect on social, political, and economic relations. Yet it is simultaneously desired (when it exists) because of its ability to make so many projects feasible. If you are looking for theories as to why these capitalist episodes are cut short, there just might be some clues in that tension. This has obvious, and pressing, contemporary relevance.
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"Many historians might push back against Hodgson's claim that capitalism, as he defined it, is found only in the modern world."
Indeed. As-if the Biden Inflation did literally stomp all over his Marxist theories. Shoveling out "IOU" post-it notes doesn't make sh*t anymore than Gov-Guns do. Just more criminal-minds publishing BS on how to justify their 'armed-theft' mentalities.
This article told of a definition of capitalism, which we never got. It’s a Marxist term and, as Clarence Carson among others pointed out, when constructed similarly to other -isms, means “rule by capital”, i.e. by the owners of capital. I see no reason to try to redefine that. As Carson pointed out, a regime like the USSR was the purest existing example of capitalism.
If you mean free enterprise, say that, not “capitalism”. The essence of free enterprise is that anyone can have an enterprise. That’s the historic development of significance discussed here. "Capitalism" does not convey any idea of freedom of enterrise.
They get free markets confused with capitalism constantly.
FFS. Every time the word capitalism is used someone has to jump in with this same “ACKSHEWALLLY” critique. And it is not only wrong, but a needless distraction. Everythiung you said is just wrong.
“-Ism” does not necessarily mean “rule by”. Or are you telling me that adherents of Marxism are waiting for his zombie to give them orders? “-Ism” nearly notes that the preceding word is the main leverage point of a system or taxonomy. It is the focus concept by which one should order/categorize the problem-space.
Racism is not “Rule by Races”, but rather “the most important thing in ordering society is by race”. Incrementalism is the belief not that increments rule, but that in the problem-space of “making change” we should move by increments. There are countless counter other examples. Even Communism isn’t the belief that communes should rule (that was a different ruling body) but just that communes describe the allocation of productive capacity.
Capitalism is the notion that Capitalists determine the direction of production- namely that when you want to know who gets to decide what will be made, and who owns the resulting product, it is the owner of the capital itself. The problem space is “Who gets to decide on what will be produced” and the category by which we discriminate is the “Capitalists”.
Also, Marx actually never used the term Capitalism. He used terms like “Capitalist” and “Capitalist mode of production”. The term Capitalist (i.e. owner of capital) has been in use since the late 17th Century. Has capitalism gotten a bad name by the marxists who have attributed every societal ill to the term? Yes. But there is no reason they won’t do the same to Free Enterprise. They own the schools.
I think Free Enterprise is a great description for many of the ideas surrounding Capitalism, such that the two terms can be used interchangeably. And as a marketing tactic, it might be preferable. Free Markets are but one mechanism in a capitalist society, though it is noteworthy that markets are not the only (or necessarily most important) mechanism in a Free Enterprise/Capitalist economy.
But this constant attempt to declare it an “off limits” word is a petty distraction.
Yeah, that's why I said "Marxists" rather than "Marx". Regardless, while "rule by" may be too short a phrase to capture all the meaning of "-isms" in these senses, it does indicate as you say a dominance over whatever. For an example from an entirely different field, "alcoholism" is used to mean one of two things: intoxication by alcohol, or a hypothesized condition wherein alcohol determines someone's behavior. "Rule by alcohol" isn't that bad a simplification, is it?
So racism is a belief that race rules human relationships, or at least someone's beliefs about others.
But with free enterprise, the owners of capital don't really direct production in any but the short run. It's the desires of consumers that determine how capital will be deployed. Because we have consumer sovereignty, not producer sovereignty — unlike the situation in countries like Cuba, where the owner of capital, i.e. the state, does direct how it will be deployed, regardless of price signals.
Try it from the horse's pen: https://fee.org/articles/capitalism-yes-and-no/
Let's nail this down.
"Capital" are goods that are used as productive inputs for further production.
A "capitalist" is owner of capital.
"Capitalism" is the private ownership of capital and their operation for profit.
A "free market" is a system in which the prices of goods and services are determined by supply and demand.
A wild berry picker, a natural clay sculptor or a fisherman using stone weirs are examples of people who can sell their wares and participate in the free market without being a capitalist.
“Capitalism” as a system just means free exchange. The wild berry picker is taking advantage of unclaimed or public land. Berries are property, once picked. If you sell your berries to someone to make a pie, or jam, or juice, you’re still part of the capitalist system. You don't have to do the "further production" part yourself. Where does the sculptor get his or her clay? Clay is property once acquired. So are fish.
If it meant free exchange, "capitalism" would be a more closely related word. It's wholly unsuited to that usage.
Thoroughly socialist countries are run by people who own capital and hence are capitalists, yet the people of those countries aren't free to exchange it.
"Thoroughly socialist countries are run by people who own capital and hence are capitalists, yet the people of those countries aren’t free to exchange it."
Nope; the ownership, such as it exists, is "public".
So what? That means "the public" rules.
So "public" ownership under communism is a thing?
You asked I not dismiss you as an ignoramus, but it seems to be becoming more difficult.
“Capitalism” as a system just means free exchange.
No. As I said earlier, most people confuse the free market with capitalism, and capital with property in general.
If I farmed corn on unowned land with borrowed or rented tools and then sold it on the open market, I am not practicing capitalism.
If I farmed corn on land I owned, with tools I owned, and then sold it on the open market, I am practicing capitalism.
Berries are property, once picked.
So? Unless he’s planting the berries to create berry bushes he owns, they are not capital. Capital is property, but not all property, even property for sale, is capital.
Those berries have to be used as productive inputs for further production, in order to be capital.
"...It’s a Marxist term and, as Clarence Carson among others pointed out, when constructed similarly to other -isms, means “rule by capital”, i.e. by the owners of capital..."
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
"Ruling" has nothing to do with capitalism.
But what if nasty capitalists decide to produce and sell things that people want, instead of things that match my utopian vision? Aren't they ruling my life?
Then why would you use that word? Try https://fee.org/articles/capitalism-yes-and-no , Clarence Carson's essay that woke me up to this problem ~40 years ago.
Oh, goody, somebody claimed something in writing! Must be true!
You’ve been punchng easy targets so long here (pointing out doofuses as the doofuses they are) that you seem to have forgotten how to approach serious disagreement. Now that I see his article again after all these years, I see I’ve stated it more starkly than he put it, though I might’ve picked some of that up from other libertarians saying the same thing, but because he argues for it so much more thoroughly than I’m able to here, I thought I’d link to it.
I’ve seen a libertarian macho flash that the Libertarian Party was weaseling when in their platform in the of the middle 1970s they replaced the word “capitalism” in earlier versions with “free enterprise” — as if “free enterprise” was a weaker way to say it because it didn’t raise as many leftist hackles as “capitalism”. While I’ll admit to some thrill from such hackle-raising, as when DJ Trump does it, it’s not a good tendency to succumb to. “Free enterprise” conveys better the concept of what we want than “capitalism”, which frequently includes a regime of unfree enterprise, as in crony capitalism or state capitalism (or general crapitalism), which “free enterprise” excludes, plus it has much more appeal to those on the fence. People who say they dislike capitalism come in 2 kinds: socialists etc. who fundamentally disagree with us and are a waste to appeal to, and people who’d favor free enterprise but associate capitalism with the various forms of crapitalism which we too oppose.
The problem you (and he) have here regards the inability of "capitalism" (qua "capitalism") to "rule" over anyone or anything. That takes coercion and that means you have to modify "capitalism" to some distorted government-enforced form more closely associated with fascism.
This is reminiscent of turd, claiming in 2008, that "the market" had failed! No, we simply found out how much of the government's thumb on the scales it took to cause a really huge disaster. Quite a bit, as it turns out, but no one in the government had any regard for that at all. And turd (as is your source) was simply wrong in mis-identifying the source of the problem.
When in doubt, don't read scholastic tomes that use language to sound more intelligent than they actually are.
"-ism" means "a belief system" toward some thing or concept. You have Catholicism (belief in universal ethics), Communism as a belief in universal equality for some, authoritarianism as a belief in the absolute knowledge of conforming elitists.
"Capital" is "private assets in excess of fundamental survival requirements".
So, Capitalism is the belief that the accumulation and application of excess private assets is invariably beneficial to human well-being.
Free markets are easy to understand, but most economists are not. I am always suspicious of economists when the first thing they do when proposing their viewpoint is to start changing definitions.
^THIS. 9 out of 10 times complexity is just a forefront to manipulation. The fact everyone in a free nation should pride Individual Liberty and Justice for all above anything else is easy to understand. All the complexity (noise/excuses) surrounding that obvious conclusion is just attempts to manipulate a crime (cheat justice or take-away others Liberty).
But this book isn't about changing definitions. It is about trying to find those conditions in which Capitalism could emerge and survive. Understanding that might be wonky and overindulgent, but it can also provide use.
That's the problem.
Gravity always exists. People (and beavers, and landslides, and ...) can build dams and block rivers, but gravity is going to find a way to get that water back into the ocean or lake.
So do markets always exist. Governments try their damnedest to control them, divert them, corrupt them, but they can't prevent markets from existing.
One of the ways people try to control markets is with all these definitions. Even "free markets" is pretty pointless, since word of mouth and advertising affect markets in various ways that some people consider not free. Ever bad-mouthed a dentist? That's a little bit less freedom, since now you've biased people who might actually like that dentist for other reasons that you didn't consider worth mentioning.
Markets are what they are, and sometimes I wish economists and politicians would just acknowledge that and shut up.
If you "bad mouth" a dentist, you are helping other people make better decisions about their dental care, and improving the market. Unless you're lying.
Meh, I'm suspicious because it (seems to) propose that we didn't have "Capitalism" before we invented the game of financial whackbat.
whether capitalism as he defines it can persist indefinitely.
Will our civilization live forever?
Given the US' turn towards socialism, the answer is a resounding fuck no.
Nothing lasts forever.
In the cold November rain . . .
but the Earth and sky...
Are there Free Markets in Heaven?
Not in woke heaven.
"...a legal and political system that protects property and contracts and provides a secure space for individual enterprise."
If only there were a political philosophy that had this as a basis.
You won't read about it here.
Nothing causes Capitalism, it is the default natural state of a market and society free of interference and limits.
Every other system is the artificial imposition of deliberate constraints upon that otherwise natural order.
That's just the work of market forces. Capitalism is a term invented by Marx to describe something he wanted to destroy but didn't understand because Marx was too lazy to get a damned job.
I'm trying to cease my usage of the term because you're losing points to your enemies when you let them create the terms and assign their own definitions to them. I don't have to defend "capitalism" because I believe in free enterprise.
Property rights, and a government that enforces them, are essential for capitalist markets to work. It’s the difference between having to personally accompany and protect your goods on their way to market, and being able to ship them. The latter requires a government that enforces property rights.
That’s why markets don’t function under communism, because communism rejects property right.
But you're assuming property (ownership) existed from the beginning of...everything. It didn't. The concept had to be developed and accepted. Free of interference and limits, anybody could take and use anything, any time, since it didn't belong to anyone.
It does seem to have arisen instinctively in various animal and arguably even plant species, independently or by common descent. but is not a given. You can see that many species stake out territory, so land ownership is one of the early principles to develop.
"But you’re assuming property (ownership) existed from the beginning of…everything. It didn’t. The concept had to be developed and accepted..."
You're assuming this is correct, absent evidence.
Protection of property had to be developed, but when Ug first chipped a spear-point, you can assume he "owned" it and would not give it up without a trade or a fight; he had invested time in producing that good.
Now, show otherwise; you seem to be a font of worthless claims.
We see various species build a home and then have it taken by others of their species.
On that note, one would be amiss in not mentioning that animals also define and defend their territory. In fact, nature is so focused on defense that many creatures have evolved specialized mechanisms to defend themselves and their territory.
I might hesitate to call it a natural law as there are always exceptions, but one doesn't need to squint all that hard to see it either.
"We see various species build a home and then have it taken by others of their species."
OFFS! Fuck off and die, slimy pile of shit.
There as been the concept of ownership as long as people have been people. My dog gets it, and she's not that much smarter than the current VP.
Stealing property does not mean the concept of ownership did not exist. If it did, that would mean we don't have the concept of ownership today. I'm fairly sure someone had their stuff stolen today.
This book is an interesting approach, but I’m not sure how novel it really is. If I read this correctly, it states that capitalism really couldn’t exist before we had effective institutions for turning assets into capital (through the formation of credit). I am not certain this is really that novel of an idea.
This is basically the thesis of Hernando de Soto in The Mystery of Capital. He looks at countries like Egypt which have enormous assets- families sitting in houses that represent generational wealth- but the lack of institutions to unlock these assets (including quaint prohibitions on usury) and laws to protect their transition to capital leaves them locked in place. As a result billions of dollars in potential wealth does not get used.
Usery is defined as excessive interest, but in practice usery prohibitions mean no charging interest at all. I’ve never understood this. Do those societies also prohibit charging rent for an apartment or a car? If so, why do they prohibit charging rent for money?
That's an interesting way of looking at it. (Usury)
I don't generally have a problem with usury, unless there is some sort of collusion involved among lenders to prevent competition from lowering rates. Otherwise, let people decide what they are willing to pay or risk, for themselves.
Interest is the price of money, as you say. And when you have prohibitions on selling something in demand, it fucks up a lot of things. If this guy, and de Soto are correct, it is that the West allows renting of money, which sets the stage for capitalism. If so, consider how fucked up Rent Control zones are for housing, and then consider that that is the model we basically have in most of the west, where interest rates are heavily influenced by federal regulations.
Even "reasonable" limits on interest rates or lending, such as on payday loans and fees, can make life worse for those they supposedly protect from those "predatory" practices, by making credit unavailable to them when people need it most, as in a short term emergency, pushing them to crime or homelessness instead.
True. Reason has done several articles on the subject.
This is why societies operating by Islamic law, which prohibits rent on money, have developed workarounds by which things other than money are rented instead.
If so, why do they prohibit charging rent for money?
IIRC St. Augustine used a natural law argument against usury based on the idea that money wasn’t a thing like real property.
Isn't rent seeking frowned upon as it rests on mere ownership rather than production of goods or service?
"Isn’t rent seeking frowned upon as it rests on mere ownership rather than production of goods or service?"
No, shit-for-brains, "rent-seeking" relies on getting government coercion to limit other alternatives.
I keep getting this impression that when your mommy lied about you being bright, you thought she was telling the truth.
FOAD, asshole.
Another recent innovation that has been explored in Reason articles over the last several years is the “virtual title” innovation made possible by blockchain technologies in places where there is no institutional protection of property titles and financial transactions are actively inhibited by local powers. Keeping forbidden transactions hidden from local powers while creating permanent incorruptible records of the transactions, including interest bearing loans and title changes would be one of the “essentials” mentioned in the book and the article here.
That in turn poses a question that Hodgson does not explore: whether capitalism as he defines it can persist indefinitely.
Indeed, that is the essential question of economics going forward into the future, as I see it.
In most cultures, finance is feared and mistrusted, precisely because of its solvent effect on social, political, and economic relations. Yet it is simultaneously desired (when it exists) because of its ability to make so many projects feasible. If you are looking for theories as to why these capitalist episodes are cut short, there just might be some clues in that tension.
Finance has enabled the modern economies of all wealthy nations. The relationship between finance and capitalism, according to Hodgson, is "that [capitalism] properly refers to the purchasing power used to acquire those goods, whether as cash or as credit. This makes finance and financial institutions central to capitalism."
Further explaining what Hodgson is arguing, the author says, "These shifts did not just make the pooling and collection of capital easier. They made it possible to effectively bring credit from the future into the present: You could secure credit against the income that would flow from future production to mobilize resources to create that production, then use the eventual income to service and liquidate the credit. Hodgson argues that growth was held back by a shortage of capital until the middle of the 19th century, when the changes were sufficiently advanced."
This is what I am skeptical that many free market economists are fully considering, as a layperson with little economics background. When I see economics discussed in libertarian or conservative leaning outlets, both pundits and experts with free market views dismiss environmental concerns. They do so mostly by making assumptions about how adding costs to production now in order to avoid environmental damage in the future will limit economic growth. But as stated above, production costs are financed now primarily on projections of future income.
All debt, in an important sense, is a claim on future income. Credit is extended based on an analysis of the ability of the debtor to increase their earnings over time to be able to pay back the debt with a reasonable rate of return for the creditor. What factors are going into that analysis, though?
If the projections of future income assume stable and predictable environmental costs, that is likely to be a faulty assumption. Extending credit to a farm based on assumptions that the crop yield will grow over time as it has in the past could be wrong for many reasons, but it is likely to be wrong as rainfall and temperature patterns change, geographic ranges and the timing for the life cycles of pests change, and more.
This is why understanding climate change is so important. We can't properly account for future economic variables if we don't.
Climate change is a perfect example of how we chose to ignore land - classically defined which would include land, natural resources, even air - as either a separate factor of production or a separate type of legal property.
Legal property involves three elements
usus - the ability to use the thing
fructus - the ability to claim the fruits of the thing
abusus - the ability to abuse, destroy, or alienate the thing
For most of history and including at least the first century of industrialization, rights in land only included the first two - usufruct not abusus. You did not actually have legal rights to destroy the land (pollute the water, change the composition of air, etc) because 'property' in land did not include abusus.
Libertarians who base their philosophy on self-ownership are asserting that ownership of self/ labor (where a property right means you have the same right to work, to claim the fruits of work - and to go vacation or kill yourself) is the same as ownership of land.
People have always had a right to destroy their own property if they choose. What they don't have a right to do is the right to pollute the air or water that are circulating past them to others. At least they didn't have that right, until the major polluters decided to use the government to codify that right, setting limits on how much pollution is tolerated and what the fines will be, rather than to leave themselves open to unlimited lawsuits.
No they did not have that right re land. What they possessed was the incapability of nuking their own land or the disinterest in salting their own land. A building on land is not land. It is capital so yes you can demolish that. By right. Because you built/created it.
Land is not created property. It is merely recognized by title. The sovereign is the only one who can alienate (one element of abusus) that land by transferring it to a different sovereign. You want to play sovereign Inigo Montoya? Prepare to die. Anyone born on that land is not your property. They are a subject of the sovereign who recognizes the title you say you have.
Libertarians are lazy as fuck (best case) when it comes to making their argument for liberty based on property. They are propertarian.
Oh and you might want to read a bit of history about the unlimited liability of claims on others re land. See Johnstown flood. Which proved an ABSENCE of law related to land as property. Not land law developed in some understanding of land as property
I don't think illogical "What Ifs" is a good bases to point Gov-Guns at your neighbors over every "What If" you can imagine. (Imagination justifies authoritarianism?)
Seriously idiots. Who destroys their own property? Is that suppose to be something concerned about? What if Jack decides to take his $1,000,000 asset and destroy it????
No. People don't usually destroy their assets on purpose; but their neighbors might make up that excuse to pretend they own it at the end of a Gov-Gun.
Who destroys their own property?
Everyone who takes a vacation or chooses to not work on a weekend. Or commits suicide or retires.
Everyone who buys a machine to produce doohickies and then runs that machine to max capacity and breaks it so that eventually they have to buy a new machine
Every farmer who drains the Oglalla Aquifer in order to irrigate their land or who depletes the soil of minerals or nitrogen and then has to use fertilizer.
Every slumlord who chooses not to repair their building so that they can burn it down and claim a fully operable building as the loss.
Everyone who combusts a hydrocarbon moving millions of years of sequestered carbon from deep in the Earth to the atmosphere. Well technically that's damaging some other property - but how's anyone gonna claim that damage or distinguish the air you breathe from the shit you burn?
Abusus is a critical element in making use of and profiting from property. But in economic terms - scarcity terms - it only works when that property can be created (new supply at a cost) and destroyed (reduced supply) and created again (new supply at a cost). It doesn't work when the thing was created by God and the costs of repair/etc can merely be passed on to the future buyer without any entry into the pricing system that evaluates the prior destruction.
Everything you list is something SAID owner(s) added to the land.
Who are you to say something someone ADDED of their own labors can’t be ‘harvested’ (or as you call it; destroyed) by that same owner.
What’s the beginning to end ‘loss’? None of your excuses demonstrates any loss. Reminds me of Obama claiming everyone’s assets as his own, “You didn’t build that!” /s
It is especially noteworthy though how you started your 'destruction' path and BS-ed your way into laying 'claim' to what others have ADDED as VALUE (that wasn't there) to their own properties.
Because .................. that's what leftards do.
JFree wrote:
"Every farmer who drains the Oglalla Aquifer in order to irrigate their land or who depletes the soil of minerals or nitrogen and then has to use fertilizer."
"Every slumlord who chooses not to repair their building so that they can burn it down and claim a fully operable building as the loss."
Everything you list is something SAID owner(s) added to the land.
Uh, what did those owners add to the land?
No one owns land forever. They will either sell it, give it away, or die. Regardless, the land will end up in someone else's hands, and it will continue to transfer to new owners indefinitely. The concept here is that the land itself will outlast any one person's use of it, so the owner must ensure that it still has some productive value when they are done with it. A strip mine that is polluted with waste rock and tailings is essentially destroyed for the foreseeable future, or it would require enormous amounts of money to clean up sufficiently for any other human use.
Here are nine whole towns that are abandoned or almost abandoned due to pollution.
"their building", apply "fertilizer"
Water is moved; not made or destroyed in this discussion.
They built/or-paid for the building. They added fertilizer.
*ALL* these things are things the owner ADDED to the LAND.
Ewh. A whole !9! ??? /s little towns whereas almost *all* could've been vacated by nature itself. What's the count on cities destroyed by natural events??? You're just cherry-picking needles out of a haystack and torch-packing their insignificance for all they're worth.
Further, a total of 9 isn't a pimple on the ass of those abandoned as a result of earthquake of volcanism. JasonT20 is a slimy pile of lefty shit, like sarc, turd or jeff, claiming to be otherwise and proving to be so.
Here is one mind wholely polluted by lefty propaganda.
FOAD, shit-pile.
Talk about "destroying" land very quickly includes philosophical and religious views about how to define preservation and destruction.
Does an open pit copper mine destroy land? It certainly changes the natural state (worshiped by some people in different ways). And it prevents many other uses that other people might value more, for various reasons.
And that open pit is capital, in the eyes of miners. They have invested money and other resources in order to produce copper and reap benefits.
^Exactly, "how preservation and destruction is defined"
Never-mind E=mc^2 proving matter and energy are always constant.
Wonderful. Now you are asking legitimate questions about how land is different from either capital or labor. A society can of course choose to understand those differences via philosophy or religion - and in theory by economics and/or law. But pretending that they aren't different is just ignorance
Claiming they are, absent evidence, is just stupidity.
Warmer weather has historically been associated with higher crop yields. Cold weather leads to crop failures and starvation. Climate change is less of a threat and more of an improvement. People have been moving to warmer climates for decades, because they prefer them.
Sea level rise and more severe and frequent storms could reduce the value of some coastal property, but the threat is so minor or so far off in time that it hasn't stopped the market value of coastal properties from rising significantly in the past 5 years.
Awe the 'Climate Changes' religion. Once upon a time it was 'cooling' (See Global Cooling 1970s) but then the LIE couldn't be bought anymore so it was 'warming' then the LIE couldn't be bought anymore so its just 'changing'...
Now could their possibly be a better excuse made to worship the Government 'Gun' Gods than the weather changes? If there was ever any excuse that could swallow up all the BS ever produced it would be "blame it on the weather" and that's what the commie-indoctrination did.
"If there was ever any excuse that could swallow up all the BS ever produced it would be “blame it on the weather” and that’s what the commie-indoctrination did."
'Blaming it on the weather' is said by those who would deny or minimize. Or claim claim the climate science is a religion. Those concerned with climate trends don't blame the weather, they blame people and how our economy requires greater and greater burning of fossil fuels to ensure it can continue to grow. It can be seen in the phrase 'anthropogenic climate change' - climate changed caused by man's actions. Weather on the other hand is ephemeral, chaotic and unpredictable. That's why we study climate science and not weather science.
Good thing the climate never changed before Exxon.
It is what it is. Anthropogenic (human caused) climate change, at least on a global scale, is concurrent with Exxon.
The only thing (human caused) is the BS religion (‘faith’) in nonsensical propaganda and throwing Gov-Guns behind their religion.
FFS; On the ‘global scale’ the ‘global cooling’ made more sense. The fastest recorded dropping temperatures were during WWII when more CO2, leaded gas, burning and bombs were going off than ever before. Do you think forest fires that cloud up the sky cause the temperature to increase? No. No-one but the dumbest of the dumb believe that sh*t. Yet because of complete BS indoctrination; that blatant LIE is repeated day in and day out.
Even if their was a insignificant amount of truth behind the 'religion' every speckle of evidence says they've got it *ssbackwards. TRILLIONS spent; and the 'climate' still 'changes'??? Obviously what-ever they think they're accomplishing; they aren't.
"The only thing (human caused)"
Human caused is referring to the fossil fuels we burn. It releases CO2 which traps heat - otherwise known as the greenhouse effect. It's the reason why inside a greenhouse is warmer than it is outside.
You.
Are.
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Of.
Shit.
LOL. Do you think greenhouses are made of CO2?
CO2 is an odorless, COLORLESS gas.
And one of the many sustenance compounds of plant life..
How dumb does one have to be to claim a war-on plant sustenance and call it ‘green’?
Quite fitting for the history of Commie-Indoctrination.
You.
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There were forest fires before humans learned how to make fire, too. Does that tell you anything about whether a particular forest fire in the present was arson, accidental, or completely unrelated to human actions?
The facts of how humans have changed the Earth are what they are, as mtrueman said. We can understand them well enough to account for those changes in how we manage our technology, agriculture, and other land use, or we can do whatever satisfies our wants and needs now and leave any problems for future generations to deal with.
The asshole JasonT20 is the slimy, stinking pile of lefty shit who supports government murder as a preventative for, well, he’s not sure:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?…”
FOAD, you pathetic piece of shit.
Notice the blind assumption that those lands are [we] responsibility.
The real part of 'environmentalism' is COMMUNISM.
Notice the blind assumption that those lands are [we] responsibility.
It’s hardly a “blind” assumption. It is a recognition of two things that are obvious from the sum of all of human experience: that land is a finite resource – we cannot expand human civilization into new land indefinitely; what is done to one parcel of land doesn’t always stay only on that land – some of the fertilizer used on a farm runs off of the farm into rivers and lakes and eventually the sea. There, it can cause algal blooms and dead zones and other hazards that affect people downstream. Burning something on one parcel of land adds gases and particles to the air that spreads well beyond the boundaries of that parcel of land.
I’ve seen the libertarian concept of freedom put this way many times: You have every right to swing your fist, but that right stops at my face. “Environmentalism” is simply a recognition that when we consider how we use land, people are well within an arm’s reach of each other. We can let people “swing their fists” with no limitation, meaning that they can do whatever they want on land they own. But that isn’t freedom, because they could then hit other people without consequence.
Call that "communism" if you want. It seems that you are focused entirely on finding an excuse to give labels like that to people on the internet. You don't seem to really care about having a coherent political worldview.
"I’ve seen the libertarian concept of freedom put this way many times: You have every right to swing your fist, but that right stops at my face."
This is literally the Hitler-excuse propaganda of the 21st Century.
You don't address your 'rights' violation by cutting off every other persons arm/fist; you address it *******AFTER******** your rights have *ACTUALLY* been violated by recourse.
It's the same with 'environmentalist' concerns which are 99% pure BS anyways. You don't build a 'communist' nation before any fist gets thrown you prosecute *AFTER* someone rights are violated.
THAT is the very premise of 'JUSTICE' versus 'TOTALITARIANISM'.
Iraq has recently broken records for 'warm weather' with recorded temperatures reaching as high as 125F. Coupled with drought and farmers abandoning their fields for jobs in the cities, desertification is taking over and yields are diminishing and food prices increasing. This is an area where the Sumerians invented agriculture thousands of years ago.
Part of the problem is that warmer weather means longer, hotter, more frequent heat waves, leading to lower yields or crop failure.
The Garden of Eden (basically the Persian Gulf shoreline before the waters rose) is the closest the Earth is now to uninhabitable. The surface water of the Gulf now peaks at around 90-95F. Which is already at the level where there is no cooling of the human body from a breeze there. If we can’t cool ourselves by sweating – we die fast. The wet-bulb temperature ranges. The only reason life is possible there now is because the water itself can sometimes cool into the 70’s. It will take a lot of evolution for humans to find an alternative way to cool our body other than sweating or for our core body temperature/thermoregulation to change.
The Gulf of Mexico coastal water averages high 80’s in summer – as does Gulf of California. Those areas will become intolerable (maybe not uninhabitable) if those hot seasons become longer than than just summer. I sure wouldn’t own property there.
“Unless you repent and ask God for forgiveness of all your worldly sins you will be cast into hell.”, is that what you two are saying?
Sure sounds like it and believe you me those ‘religious’ whack-jobs, just as you do, supply factors to ?prove? miracles happen all the time for those who ask God for forgiveness.
Believe what you want; but when it comes to Gov-Guns leave your ‘imaginations’ at home.
"The Garden of Eden..."
Is a fantasy.
You.
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Warmer weather has historically been associated with higher crop yields. Cold weather leads to crop failures and starvation. Climate change is less of a threat and more of an improvement. People have been moving to warmer climates for decades, because they prefer them.
Warmer than what? "Warm" and "cold" are relative terms, not measurements. As mtrueman points out, temperatures can be too high for sustainable human habitation, just like temperatures that are too cold. Anyone that has tried to keep a garden going with a variety of fruits, vegetables, decorative plants or flowers, knows that both too hot and too cold, along with too dry or too wet, is going to be bad for the plants. That is why greenhouses exist. They can maintain optimal temperature and humidity far better than the outdoors.
As for people preferring warmer climates, you must not be from Florida like I am. We have a term for retirees from the northern parts of the country with sufficient means to maintain two residences - snowbirds. We call them that because they stay in Florida between November and April or May. Then they go back to where they had retired from where it isn't unpleasantly hot and humid for half of the year. (Not to mention that they also miss hurricane season that way.)
Sea level rise and more severe and frequent storms could reduce the value of some coastal property, but the threat is so minor or so far off in time that it hasn’t stopped the market value of coastal properties from rising significantly in the past 5 years.
This is an example of what I am getting at, actually. The market value of many coastal properties on the Gulf coast and Atlantic coastlines is probably propped up because of poor economic incentives. Local and state governments get pressured to step in and repair property damaged from storms either with disaster funds, subsidized home owner's insurance, or other programs. If people were left only to their own capital to repair that damage or mitigate the dangers, including the infrastructure of roads and utilities, would those properties be priced as high as they are?
It will be really interesting to see what happens in Miami over the next few decades. It isn't just about protecting coastal property. Saltwater intrusion in the water table is also a problem. How much are taxpayers going to be willing to pay for the choice, made before they were born, to build up a city on that land?
JasonT20 is the assholic slimy, stinking pile of lefty shit who supports government murder as a preventative for, well, he’s not sure:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?…”
FOAD, you pathetic piece of shit.
"It will be really interesting to see what happens in Miami over the next few decades. It isn’t just about protecting coastal property. Saltwater intrusion in the water table is also a problem. How much are taxpayers going to be willing to pay for the choice, made before they were born, to build up a city on that land?"
BTW, shit pile, it it'll be interesting to see assholes like you walk this back, as every bullshit catastrophist has done for the last 30 years.
Yet somehow; The Great Salt Lake is calling the removal of salt from the water 'polluting'. If you get salt it's 'polluting' if you remove salt it's 'polluting'. On and on and on it goes.
The *real* foundation is just an *excuse* ,pathetic at that, for MORE [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism], MORE government, MORE [WE] gangs. Destroying the very USA concept of Individual Liberty and Justice for all.
Yet somehow; The Great Salt Lake is calling the removal of salt from the water ‘polluting’. If you get salt it’s ‘polluting’ if you remove salt it’s ‘polluting’. On and on and on it goes.
I don't know what you're talking about here. But the Great Salt Lake is drying up, due to the lowered rainfall and snowpack in the surrounding mountains and the use of freshwater from those same streams to farming. It is half the area it was just a few decades ago. Maybe you would say, "So what?" But besides the ecological relevance of these events (the increasing salinity of the water affects its ability to sustain the insect populations that migratory birds rely on for food), the dry and exposed lake bed has toxic minerals (arsenic, lead, and mercury) that would get swept up by the wind into dust storms. (The lake is in the middle of a desert, basically.)
The *real* foundation is just an *excuse* ,pathetic at that, for MORE [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism], MORE government, MORE [WE] gangs. Destroying the very USA concept of Individual Liberty and Justice for all.
The way that you conceptualize "Individual Liberty and Justice for all" is bizarre. Your idea of individual liberty includes the freedom to do whatever you want on land you own, regardless of how that effects people off of your land. Just turn that around and maybe you'll see the problem. It also means that someone else is free to do what they want on their land, even if that causes harm to you. But hey, doing something about that would be communism, right?
Yes. When people like you pretend they 'own' everything out of some imaginary concern instead of prosecuting a land owner for actual harm-done they are literally building 'Communism'.
Just as said above. There is a difference between prosecuting someone who hits you and cutting off everyone else's fist because your nose thinks it 'owns' everyone else's arm.
JasonT20 is the assholic slimy, stinking pile of lefty shit who supports government murder as a preventative for, well, he’s not sure:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?…”
FOAD, you pathetic piece of shit.
Besides which,
"...Your idea of individual liberty includes the freedom to do whatever you want on land you own, regardless of how that effects people off of your land. Just turn that around and maybe you’ll see the problem. It also means that someone else is free to do what they want on their land, even if that causes harm to you. But hey, doing something about that would be communism, right?..."
No, shitbag, those who own that land are welcome to do as they please, regardless of your attempted strawman.
FOAD, asshole.
JasonT20 is the slimy, stinking pile of lefty shit who supports government murder as a preventative for, well, he's not sure:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”
FOAD, you pathetic piece of shit.
“both pundits and experts with free market views dismiss environmental concerns.”
They do that because it doesn’t matter whether they take future costs into account or not. The future cannot be planned no matter how much ignorant people and abusive politicians try to claim that it is. If you’re in a business where more accurate predictions mean better profits and you choose wrong, you lose. That’s why “riskier” enterprises tend to earn higher interest rates. Trying to pretend that someone somewhere can predict this more accurately and that, therefore, they should be in a position of power centrally directing the economy leads to the fiasco we are currently suffering under at the hands of massive, bloated, incompetent governors.
There are only four ways to get things.
1. You can make a thing.
2. You can trade for a thing.
3. You can beg for a thing.
4. You can steal a thing.
Methods 2 through 4 involve some sort of exchange. Whether or not we get some kind of free market or something else depends on which methods people support, and which methods they discourage. Choose wisely.
Say. Politicians don’t campaign on STEALING. They campaign on FREE sh*t. ???? /s
Funny how they give away all this stuff yet make absolutely nothing.
Why it’s almost like they have a slave labor camp hidden somewhere.
Some do. "Tax the rich!"
And some retards really do think they can create things by wishing (that included passing laws).
If finance/money is defined as capital, then you have just eliminated 'economics' as a valid way of thinking about anything related to it.
Economics is and has always been at core about scarcity. Whether it is prices as a scarcity signal or entrepreneurship as a means of organizing scarcity. The entirety of classical economics is about defining different types of scarcity factors - land, labor, capital (true capital not this bullshit finance/money definition). Opportunity cost about the scarcity of not being able to do everything at once. All economic thinking is about scarcity in one way or another.
There is no scarcity involved with money/finance. Money is created out of thin air - in unlimited amounts - whenever a financial institution chooses to create it. The only time it hits scarcity is when unlimited money/liability hits limited/scarce resources. And creates economic failure of one kind or another - inflation, bankruptcy, financial crisis, etc. To the degree that it succeeds in the inter-crises (the time between crises), what is created as 'growth' is in truth merely disconnected asset/price bubbles that haven't YET broken.
NONE of that failure is acknowledged by anyone praising the primacy of finance/money. It is deliberately ignored so that when the crisis hits everyone can look around and say "Well I guess sometimes shit happens. This is a surprise isn't it. Let's just adjudicate all financial claims and give everything over to that."
Money is still governed by scarcity. Not in the same sense that gold and silver coinage was, but by the economic limits of printing too much money, causing inflation and economic collapse. Even the money issuers are affected adversely if they print too much.
Jebus. Read what I fucking wrote. Money is NOT limited by scarcity. It merely creates failures – in the world of scarcity – when it meets scarcity.
Oh - and coinage IS limited by scarcity. Which is one reason Says law does work in a world where money equals coinage. But Says law doesn't work in a world where money isn't coinage but is rather this finance/bank creation.
Wherein JFucked again proves s/he is full of shit.
Lucky Strikes, allied invasion of France, you fucking ignoramus.
If money is not limited by scarcity, what gives it value?
"If finance/money is defined as capital, then you have just eliminated ‘economics’ as a valid way of thinking about anything related to it..."
Wherein JFucked proves once again to be an asshole absent a clue.
What causes capitalism is the realization that peaceful cooperation and exchange is safer than armed conflict, and more sustainable.
What ends capitalism is the realization by unscrupulous individuals that they can get their hands on other peoples' money by promising some of it to those who are less productive and might be jealous of those who have earned more.
'What ends capitalism is the realization by unscrupulous individuals that they can get their hands on other peoples’ money by promising some of it to those who are less productive and might be jealous of those who have earned more.'
But "democracy" makes that OK, right?
^THIS Well Said. +1000000000
[WE] gangs of jealous Gov-Gun packers.
Wash-off all the BS and every leftard is just a criminal in camouflage.
Curiously, what causes capitalism is a weakening of the class structure, if we merely assume that it is human nature, absent coercion, that will drive some people to risk their capital to become capitalists. As long as the monarch and the aristocracy have genuine power and a belief in their (divine?) entitlement to their position, they will not permit the flourishing of lesser classes through capitalist endeavours. And as long as the lesser classes are obliged to supply labour to the aristocracy or the monarch, they will in all likelihood not have the time to invest in their own independent prosperity.
Of course, communism implicitly rejects the human nature assumption I mentioned above - one of the many reasons that it never succeeds.
It is my opinion that the Carthaginians were one of the first "capitalist" empires.
Not going to disagree, but you need to back that to get agreement.
Croesus, according to my reading, was the first to mint currency, thereby allowing free exchange and the accumulation of wealth, allowing capitalism. Once it became possible, it existed.
Certainly, Hellenistic culture had at least the seeds of capitalism and the "Silk Road" was an active trade route at that time, requiring the accumulation of capital long before Carthage was a thing.
BTW, Valery Hansen, who otherwise writes well about the "Silk Road" reports, exhibiting her lack of business knowledge, that no one shipped goods from Venice to Beijing! No shit, Sherlock!
You sell what you can to the next merchant along the route, and s/he hopes to sell it on down the road.