With Deadpool & Wolverine, Marvel Has Lost the Plot
A sad, shallow, and pandering movie that shows the MCU has no real stories left to tell.

If nothing else, it's perfectly telling that Deadpool & Wolverine takes place in a liminal space called the Void. The latest franchise assault from the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU)—and, mercifully, the only formal entry this year—is an empty exercise in winking self-promotion, like a made-for-YouTube fan film that somehow ended up on the big screen. It's a vapid, frantic movie about how Marvel's wildly successful comic book movie universe has lost its ability to authentically connect—that itself has no capacity to authentically connect.
Consider the old screenwriter's maxim: "Raise the stakes." The underlying idea is that a good story should reveal what a character cares about most in the world, and then put whatever that is in jeopardy. This heightens the drama and draws in viewers. Viewers care about the characters because the characters care about something important to them.
Deadpool, one of the film's two titular characters, does not care about anything in the film. Oh sure: In theory, he pretends that his quest is to save a group of close friends who we see for a few minutes at the beginning of the movie. Their timeline—their branch of the multiverse—is about to be destroyed by the Time Variance Authority (TVA), the in-universe bureaucracy that Marvel has used to shake up and clean up their narrative misfires for the last few years.
But the stakes of the movie don't really have anything to do with Deadpool's friends or their timeline. That's because the stakes of the movie are very clearly, and often quite explicitly, about the MCU itself. Throughout the film, Deadpool refers to himself as Marvel Jesus, because he is fighting to save the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
And so, from the opening moments, the movie becomes a sort of knowing, perpetually wisecracking tribute to the MCU, with clip reels of fan-favorite moments (remember Endgame?) and jokes about the franchise's sorry state ("You're entering at kind of a low point," Deadpool says to Wolverine). By the end of the movie, that state is even sorrier.
Even before the opening Marvel logo has finished playing, Deadpool (Ryan Reynolds, at his most successful and most tiresome) begins interrupting to tell viewers how exciting it is. He offers some vulgar joke-filled explanation for what's about to happen, which is that Wolverine, a Marvel comics character previously left out of the Marvel movie universe for extrinsic intellectual property rights-related reasons (Wolverine and his fellow X-Men were owned by Fox), is finally going to become part of the franchise (because Marvel's parent company, Disney, bought Fox).
Sure, this setup is explained via cartoonishly bloody slow-motion violence and a lot of scatological, R-rated quips, but at its core, it has all the heart and thrills of reading a mergers and acquisitions report in Variety.
Deadpool's first problem is that in the Fox films where Wolverine has already appeared, Wolverine has already died. So he has to use a TVA gadget to find another Wolverine from another timeline (once again, the TVA bureaucracy becomes a vital crutch to fix the franchise's out-of-universe mistakes). This allows him to meet other versions of Wolverine that might have been—all of which are either nods to beloved comic book lore or rumors of unmade comic book movies that stretch back more than a decade. The rest of the film similarly piles up cameos and Easter eggs, to the point where crude self-referentiality overwhelms all else. It has precious little to say about these nods to comic book movie lore; it's just enough that you, the fan, recognize the reference. It's the "Leonardo DiCaprio pointing at the television in recognition" meme in feature film form.
Deadpool & Wolverine is a product, not a movie, and it's aimed squarely at those poor, sad souls who have invested years of their lives into following not just Marvel's characters in comics and then movies, but the behind the scenes business sagas, involving intellectual property disputes and studio marketing strategies, and unrealized projects and misfires from the early days of the superhero movie boom. It's a movie for middle-aged nerds who still remember the Hollywood column in Wizard magazine circa 1994. I can say this because, well, I'm one of those sad souls. I still have great fondness for Marvel's comic-book characters. But I'm old enough to know this stuff is pandering, shallow, and awful.
The root problem in Deadpool & Wolverine is that Deadpool and Wolverine aren't the story. Marvel—the brand, the comics, the films, the franchise, the incredibly successful but recently struggling corporate entity—is the story. And I'm a Marvel fan not because I care about the corporate brand entity in some abstract sense, but because I care about the characters, the stories, their adventures, and the authentic stakes of their lives. This movie doesn't.
The MCU hasn't just lost the plot. It has made itself the plot because it plainly has no other story to tell.
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Well, now I know it's going to be amazing.
Yep. I was on the fence, but will now have to check it out.
Eh, I watched the first two and while they were all right, it's not enough to get me to go see this one. The whole thing is being driven by the fact that they're trying to get Gen-X comic nerds in the theater by putting Wolverine in his original outfit front and center. That's fine in that it shows the movierunners understand their audience, but I just have no interest in seeing Reynolds quip it up for over 2 hours.
Somehow we live in the Bizzaro universe when Deadpool is more popular than Green Lantern, and the same actor plays both of them.
A lot of it was helped by the fact that Reynolds wrote his lines for his brief part in the generally bad Wolverine Origins movie. What the movie did with his character was incredibly stupid, but he actually set a good tone for that first special ops mission scene with all of his one-liners.
The guy is admittedly a lot of fun in small doses, but he's also like that annoying kid in class that has to turn everything into a self-deprecating joke and becomes tiresome really quick.
The guy is admittedly a lot of fun in small doses, but he’s also like that annoying kid in class that has to turn everything into a self-deprecating joke and becomes tiresome really quick.
Guess I should've read a little further before posting.
I just have no interest in seeing Reynolds quip it up for over 2 hours.
Two *more* hours. Not that I'm preventing him from sleeping on a pile of cash with his wife but, Boom is getting to the point where he really needs to learn how to act. Wrexham, Mobile Wireless commercials, Lego, Free Guy, Deadpool... it's really getting to the point where it's more/just "Ryan Reynolds in..."
Wrexham was Rob McElheney's idea which he then got Reynolds to bankroll.
Even over 15 years, nobody makes "think I might buy me a football team" kind of money on basic cable. Between Aviation Gin, Mint Mobile, and probably Toon Blast, Reynolds was already a billionaire (who occasionally gets a movie made here and there), he didn't need to bring in anyone else if it had been his idea to do it in the first place. Probably the reason he does the number of ads he's on is that it probably doesn't make sense to pay a premium to some other "spokesperson" who's likely to be less famous than himself when he can take "union scale" compensation to endorse a company that he owns a 5% (or whatever the real percentage is, 5% is a guess on my part) stake in.
Actors used to get rich for being actors. Now they get rich by selling booze.
I can't think of any actor that ever scored a $Billion payday from acting.
Also, they're not making that kind of money from "selling booze" either. They're doing it by investing in booze companies which then get bought up by bigger companies. It doesn't have to be booze, either; 50 Cent made almost as much from investing in the company that makes "Vitamin Water" as the people who were on the paying side of his record deals made in the music business.
Funding a VC company is the new "activism" for people who have reached the limits of their earning potential as entertainers.
Yes. Why did they have a review written by someone who hates comics and thinks comic lovers are 'sad'? I just watched Deadpool 2 and enjoyed it. The parts he hates are the funny parts.
SuderMan is the worst person to have as your movie reviewer.
I suppose because the movies are written by people who hate comics and think comic lovers are sad, so it just seemed to make sense.
I'd been reading Marvel comics since the 60's. It seems to me that at some point the production of Marvel movies got taken over by people who didn't read the comics, didn't LIKE comics, and just thought, "Hey, let's burn this thing to the ground, then salt the ground, and maybe make some money along the way."
If this bothers this guy this much, he must have sleepless nights over Batman vs Superman. I would recommend reading (non-comic books) more. He should try a book without pictures.
It just wasn’t woke enough for Suder-Man.
I have the feelings that many people will like this movies just because it is not woke (or at least less woke that the rest of the modern MCU). While I understand the feeling it is honestly a pretty low bar.
Given the state of cinema today, the bar is indeed low. That said, the Deadpool movies tend to be fun. So I’m definitely going to see this one.
Does anyone watch Deadpool for the plot?
Btw, Marvel today is not your dad's Marvel.
The MCU (or as some have taken to calling it, the M "She" U) isn't even Jon Favreau's MCU, it's barely Kevin Fiege's anymore. Just look at what's been happening around the attempts to re-boot "Blade" as a franchise; they were on the verge of losing their star because the title character got demoted to number 4 on the "call sheet" behind a trio of "girlboss" characters whose narrative purpose was to "smash the patriarchy" and dispense "life lessons" for the bulk of the Marvel fan base who "are the problem" in the eyes of Kathleen Kennedy and her regime at the studio,
Until very recently, it seemed like the plan from the Disney "mothership" was to have the new "Avengers" consisting of Captain Marvel (now augmented with two additional multi-box-checking "Marvels"), Black Panther's sister, Hawkeye's daughter, the daughter of Ant-Man and the Wasp, "She-Hulk Esq., the new "Thor" (now a foot less height and one more vagina), possibly Casandra Webb in place of Spider-man, and Maria Hill replacing Nick Fury. Maybe with some limited cameos by the new flying Captain America, War Machine, Shang-Chi, and Sorcerer Supreme Wong (the last two possibly only in the Chinese release cut of the film). It's as if the plan is to make a "team-up" film which fails some kind of "inverse Bechdel Test" that's never been invented).
After the recent string of "worst performing MCU release ever" titles, there's rumored to maybe be some effort at undoing at least some of the "diversification" (in roughly the same sense that the edit tna
They assumed the geeky comic book nerds where a lock as customers and they could increase the female audience. Only problem is women are just not interested in this stuff at least not in the numbers needed to replace the male loss and I think they overestimated the loyalty of the nerds. In the past they could always count on a big Chinese / Russian audience to make up for the low turn out here for crap but you can forget about them now. Personally I just wait for them to be on Netflix or Prime…other than taking my daughter to FNAF have not gone to a theater since 2018 and I feel like that is a lot of people out there.
At a certain point, Kathleen Kennedy decided that "the fans ARE the problem" and tried to transform every IP legacy that she had access to as an exec at Disney (which is almost all of them). Check out the South Park "Panderverse" special on Paramount+ if you haven't already seen it; it's excellent and has a great "b-plot" about white collar learned helplessness and AI as well as the main story line.
It started with deciding that Star Wars should become a "girls' brand" instead of a "boys' brand"; the male fans were OK with some of it up to a point.
"At a certain point, Kathleen Kennedy decided that “the fans ARE the problem” and tried to transform every IP legacy that she had access to as an exec at Disney (which is almost all of them)."
She has no role in the MCU. She is the president of Lucasfilm (SW, Indiana Jones, Willow...).
Maria Hill...
Gotta get my Cobie Smulders fix somehow.
I don't know if I'd actually watch Cobie Smulders read the phone book, but I'd give it a chance. There's alyways HIMYM on streaming, though.
She's not someone who's likely to be looking for new projects for very long regardless; unless the unions keep striking and shutting down the industry in North America.
Uh… Pete… I may’ve read Wizard magazine once, I think, but I do like to watch movies and…
Deadpool’s first problem is that in the Fox films where Wolverine has already appeared, Wolverine has already died.
The only Fox film in which Wolverine has died is Logan (Am I wrong?) was set several yrs. after Days of Future Past which, itself, was well ahead of the Deadpool’s timeline.
Does the movie actually reference the events of either film, which would be narratively inconsistent and also legally tangled, or does it just say he died and you’re writing your narrative over the top?
"Does the movie actually reference the events of either film, which would be narratively inconsistent and also legally tangled...?"
It absolutely does; before the opening credits, in fact. The movie thumbs its nose at those legal entanglements. My cheeks are sore because of the stupid grin I wore throughout the entire movie. It wasn't even my idea to go see it - my wife made me take her. Thank you, wife 🙂
It’s Wolverine from an alternate universe. Suderman clearly didn’t watch the movie. Because the plot is based around the TVA (From Loki) pulling Deadpool from his timeline to save his earth. So he ends up recruiting the Wolverine from a previously unseen timeline. This much is even in at leas tone of the trailers.
Suderman is a lazy hack that doesn’t even watch a film he reviews.
A few things, Peter...
Losing the plot is kind of the point. Between Reynold's (and deadpool's) irreverent wall breaking, and the realization, officially, that the MCU is more than 6 feet underground at this point, the entire point was to do some fan service with popular characters and poke fun at the rotting carcass of the MCU.
Do I think that is going to make a great movie worth watching? Im skeptical. I kind of have the inkling itll be in the realm of "Lady Ballers" from the daily wire...they are correct, they are on the right side of things, and its a message I can get on board with...but ramming that message through in the form of a 2 hour full feature feels...indulgent.
But to be surprised they are actually catering to characters fans actually like, siding with the "bad" youtubers who have spent years critiquing the slop, and frankly finally, officially, acknowledging that the MCU jumped the shark, exploded, and now is rotting at the bottom of the ocean...long overdue
Yeah, i think Suderman lost sight of what the movie was - a parody and roasting of the MCU. It's purpose is not to have meaningful character development, or tell a deep story. It's purpose is to crack jokes and dance in the ashes. And on that it succeeds admirably.
Does that make it a great movie? No. Does that make it a watchable and entertaining movie? Absolutely.
You've got to do better, Senator!
Marvel lost the plot a few years ago. They've only had one good movie since Endgame in 2019, and it was with 3 Spidermen they borrowed from Sony.
I’m easily entertained so I’ve enjoyed most of what they’ve put out, even the stuff that was objectively bad (looking at you Secret Invasion), but you’re not totally wrong.
Although I’d argue that Shang-Chi was as good as No Way Home.
On the plus side, Reynolds will make $20M plus a % of the box office, which will allow him to plow more money into the Wrexham soccer team and enlarge the Racecourse Ground where they play.
And don't fell bad for Jackman, I am sure he is getting $10M plus as well.
Suderman doesn't like it. For all the woke reasons.
That suggests that it's a masterpiece.
To Reason, hey, I contributed to your damned begathon and now you're telling me I have "temporary commenting privileges"? WTF?
To Suderman, um, did you think the first two Deadpool movies *weren't* all meta digs at the MCU, etc? That's exactly what I'm going to see the third one *for*! Fix yourself a cocktail and chill out, man!
I didn't read the review because I don't want spoilers.
You do realize it's only a Marvel movie in the sense they said you can make it. It's a Ryan Reynolds fan that is all about pandering. He even fought Disney on woke stuff. He gave them the finger.
This is Ryan and his BFF making a movie. No more, no less. Critics hate it, fans say the first 35 minutes is amazing (All they saw before the release)
The one thing that had me apprehensive was that initally they went away from Reese and Warnick to write this one, but it looks like they went back to the team that wrote the first two.
The irony with those writers (who were previously best known for Zombieland, and before that "The Joe Schmo Show") is that with as hard as Reynolds battled Fox to make the first one, he supposedly had to be practically forced to read their script, which was the only one that made Vanessa a significant character in the story they chose to tell.
All the successes that first Deadpool movie had, and there was almost no level at which the critical decisions that were made had been left to the initial judgement of the shot-callers involved.
Not many years ago the comment section here used to actively mock anyone who watched a DC movie, because Marvel was their god who could do no wrong. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
I'm one of the few who liked both Marvel and DC.
Marvel used to be consistently good, now they are consistently bad.
DC had lower quality on average, but occasionally hit it out of the park.
The only extra-base hit was Wonder Woman. Justice League was maybe on base due to HBP. The fight with Doomsday at the end of BvS was great, but the rest of the movie drags it down.
And before the rise of the M-She-U with the announcement of Larson as Captain Marvel on July 23, 2016, it was vastly superior to the competition. The only good live action movies in the Marvel universe started(IW, Endgame, Dr. Strange, Black Panther, GotG2, Thor:Ragnarok, and Spiderman: Homecoming were already in the works prior to that announcement) after that red letter day were Sony’s Spiderman: No Way Home, GotG3, and Deadpool 2(Fox). Everything else has been varying flavors of shit.
Reason's big tent policy is attracting some pretty noisome sommeliers fer shoor. And they wonder why girls cross the street to avoid them...
The DC movies still suck, just in case you didn't know.
DC were comic code bootlickers back when Marvel wrote its own code!
That makes zero sense. Marvel adhered to the code just like DC. As usual, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
I like both. I never understood the rivalry from fans.
A sad, shallow, and pandering movie
have you actually watched a Marvel movie?? especially one with Deadpool?? if you expected something other than shallow & pandering, it’s you that have lost the plot. this ain't Godard or Coppola we're talking about here. shallow & pandering is 100% on brand for them.
The two worst movies I've seen in many moons were things Suderman swooned over. His badmouthing of this sequel to two perfectly hilarious comedies is the best recommendation I can imagine. Katherine, on the other hand, has impeccable taste in flicks. Nick might or might not. I can't tell because by the time he gets through rambling, I can no longer recall the title. It's still entertaining, and way less risky because you can't blame him for time wasted on bad movies.
I stopped going to the movies. Most of what is produced today has an pointless script and the acting is boring,
"Fox films where Wolverine has already appeared, Wolverine has already died"
Yeah, but Logan takes place one or two decades into the future.
No R-rated film has ever earned as much in its opening weekend, reports the Hollywood Reporter — a whopping $205 million. (The previous record was $133.7 million, set in 2016 by the original film Deadpool…)
It’s also the very first R-rated film ever released by Disney…
[Deadpool actor Ryan] Reynolds has his own theory about its success. “Disney probably doesn’t want me to frame it this way, but I’ve always thought of Deadpool & Wolverine as the first four-quadrant, R-rated film,” Reynolds tells the Hollywood Reporter. “Yes, it’s rated R, but we set out to make a movie with enough laughs, action and heart to appeal to everyone, whether you’re a comic book movie fan or not.”
There’s reason Disney and others may bristle at labeling it a four-quadrant film, which generally is reserved for movies that work equally for males and females over and under 25. Afterall, it is perhaps the most violent and bloody Deadpool movie yet. Still, here's evidence to back up Reynolds' theory that it's playing to a far more broad audience than the usual Marvel Cinematic Univerese movie, even if it's skewing male by anywhere from 60 to 63 percent. So far, 13.6 million people have bought tickets to see it, on par with last year's Barbie, which was rated PG-13, according to Steve Buck's leading research firm EntTelligence. That's the most foot traffic ever for an R-rated movie....
It’s also the biggest July opening of all time, the biggest opening of 2024 so far and Marvel Studios’ biggest launch since Spider-Man: No Way Home in December 2021.
ScreenRant notes that Deadpool & Wolverine has already surpassed the entire global box office for The Marvels in just three days. It’s the biggest debut for a film since James Cameron’s Avatar: The Way of the Water in December of 2022 (according to the Hollywood Reporter). And they add that though the figures haven’t been adjusted for inflation — it’s still the eighth-biggest box office opening of all time.
But at the end of the day, it’s just people enjoying a movie together. “Well, I’m not saying that other people should do this, but my 9-year-old watched the movie with me and my mom, who’s in her late 70s,” Reynolds reportedly told the New York Times, “and it was just was one of the best moments of this whole experience for me. Both of them were laughing their guts out, were feeling the emotion where I most desperately hoped people would be.”
https://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/24/07/29/0132247/disneys-first-r-rated-movie-opening-sets-an-all-time-record-deadpool-wolverine
Though Disney's own harps may struggle over the R-rated blood scenes, the streets shall be impeccably clean by morning 😉