Progressives Are Ditching Free Speech To Fight 'Disinformation'
From limits on liability protections for websites to attempts to regulate the internet like a public utility, these proposals will erode Americans' right to express themselves.

In my column last week, I detailed how GOP lawmakers in several Western states have jettisoned their usual concerns about free speech and have passed laws that require cellphone users to disable government-mandated filters before having open access to apps. It's a foolhardy endeavor done in the name of protecting The Children from obscenity, but at least these measures are narrow in scope (and mostly about posturing).
Meanwhile, progressives are hatching attacks on "disinformation" that threaten the foundations of the Constitution. Republicans share some responsibility, as they've backed various proposals targeting Big Tech out of pique about the censorship of conservative views. These ideas included limits on liability protections for posted content and plans to treat social media sites as public utilities.
Conservatives have already shown a willingness to insert government into speech considerations, so they are left flat-footed as leftists hatch plots to rejigger open debate. Whenever the Right plays footsie with big government, the Left then ups the ante—and conservatives end up wondering what happened. What is happening now is an effort to use legitimate concerns about internet distortions to squelch what we read and say.
Traditionally, Americans of all political stripes have accepted that—except for a few strictly limited circumstances—people can say whatever they choose. The nation's libel laws impose civil penalties on those who have engaged in defamatory speech, but those laws are narrowly tailored so the threat of lawsuits doesn't halt legitimate speech. This emanates from the First Amendment, which said Congress shall make "no law…abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press."
Such protections were applied to all governments, of course. The courts wrestle with gray areas (commercial and corporate speech, pornography, political advertising), but our nation thankfully has tilted heavily in the direction of upholding the broadest speech rights. This legal framework has been bolstered by a broad consensus among the citizenry that speech rights are sacrosanct. There always have been those people who want to police speech, but they have largely been outliers.
The internet and the information free for all that's followed have challenged that consensus. When I first got into the journalism business, Americans had limited access to information. We could read the daily newspaper, which didn't cover many issues and where editors served as gatekeepers. We could watch the network news at 6 p. or subscribe to magazines. There was no internet or cable news. Talk radio was in its infancy. Now anyone can post anything online and traditional news sources are struggling.
In the old days, I was routinely frustrated by the strict gatekeeping, as it was hard to find viewpoints that diverged from the accepted mainstream point of view. Now, we all have information overload, and it's hard to know what to believe. These days, Americans can't even agree on a basic set of facts before developing an opinion. Russian and Chinese bot farms churn out obvious disinformation. Outright falsehoods spread like wildfire and become accepted truths among large groups of Americans.
Concerns about internet conspiracies are not unwarranted, but efforts to address those problems—especially ones that rely on government—pose dangers to our rights as Americans. It's one thing to target a concerted online disinformation campaign from the Chinese Communist Party, but quite another to clamp down on "misinformation"—ideas and facts that one might find to be inaccurate or based on shoddy and biased reasoning.
In a 2021 Harvard Gazette article, Harvard Law School professor Martha Minow argued that the Federal Communications Commission should "withhold licenses, remove them, terminate them, for companies that are misleading people." In other words, federal bureaucrats would be tasked with determining what amounts to "misleading people" and then yank the licenses of broadcast news outlets that failed to conform to that standard.
Think about how that would play out. Many public health officials have railed against COVID-19 misinformation, and yet we later learned that the officials' solutions turned out to be wrong and that critics raised important points. That's how life works in a free society. Different people make different claims and then evidence unfolds, albeit in a messy and imprecise manner. How often have we found that official sources get things terribly wrong?
After detailing an example of spreading online misinformation, a New York Times article from 2020 argued that "increasingly, scholars of constitutional law, as well as social scientists, are beginning to question the way we have come to think about the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech. They think our formulations are simplistic—and especially inadequate for our era."
It's unclear how this new regimen will play out, but it's a good guess it will mean creepy government control over our discourse. Be prepared, as such "questioning" will only increase as a political movement at home with canceling verboten speech offers specific solutions. Conservatives may rue the day they ever toyed with speech limitations.
This column was first published in The Orange County Register.
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Meanwhile, progressives are hatching attacks on "disinformation" that threaten the foundations of the Constitution. Republicans share some responsibility, as they've backed various proposals targeting Big Tech out of pique about the censorship of conservative views.
Wut?
Republicans are bad too because they called out the censorship?
SOME Republicans are bad (EVIL, even!) too, because they lust REALLY badly after killing Section 230, so that they can pussy-grab the "libs", and make them cry!!! And these "Team R" assholes are ENTIRELY too stupid and evil, to EVER imagine that the "libs" might use the absence of S-230 to pussy-grab them right back!
Constitutions aren’t supposed to be “ditched” when they’re inconvenient. That’s when we need to double down to protect the spirit of a right in a changing environment.
Got a problem with lies? They are coercion. Criminalize lying.
Don’t know how to do that fairly? Easy, discerning the truth is already being done using correctly applied logic and science.
Got a problem with lies? They are coercion. Criminalize lying.
Like they do in Germany for Holocaust denial, Misek?
No fuckwit.
In EVERY nation where the WW2 holocaust is alleged to have occurred it is a crime simply to share evidence of correctly applied logic and science that refutes it.
That censorship obstructs the discernment of truth.
I know that you're a Nazi apologist, so that already means you lack a significant amount of IQ, but you have to be able to see the irony of your posts, right?
You want to criminalize lying, but in the same vein you then argue that others who have criminalized lying are actually just censoring people. Don't you see the inherent problem with criminalizing lying based on your own statements?
I want lying criminalized so fuckwits like you would have to refute something that I said in order to say that I’m lying.
Nobody, especially you, has ever refuted anything that I’ve said.
I want lying criminalized so fuckwits like you would have to refute something that I said in order to say that I’m lying.
But wouldn't it be illegal to refute what you say since everything you say is true?
The truth is why you can’t refute anything I say moron.
Your inane claims have repeatedly been discredited here. We’re not going to keep doing it every time you shitpost your lies. You’re just like that Marxist, Pedo Jeffy.
Maybe you two can go away and fuck each other.
Hahaha
You keep repeating that lie Kol Nidre boy
And I’ll keep rubbing your face in the fact that you’ve never posted a link with a description to demonstrate that you ever refuted anything that I’ve said.
I’m repeating the truth. You’re repeating your Nazi lies.
This again. You're lying right now. Lock him up!
Yes, this again and every time until one of you fuckwits prove that I’ve lied by refuting something that I’ve said.
Just one description and one link will do. Just one.
Now fuck off you lying waste of skin.
Already been done dozens of times. We’re not redoing this every time you make your universally discredited claims.
Just go back to Stormfront.
Don’t you see the inherent problem with criminalizing lying based on your own statements?
No, he does not, because he is a moron.
The resulting silence from morons like you is another reason to criminalize lying.
Every one of us is an intellectual god compared to subnormal trash like you.
Well, he has a remarkably Trumpian view of the truth, I would say. Self-awareness is probably not his thing.
"simply to share evidence of correctly applied logic and science that refutes it."
The only science which would refute the claims of mass executions/incinerations from thousands of witnesses that the more than 990k people who were transported to Auchwitz/Birkau from 1940-1945 and who weren't there when the camps were captured by the Red Army would be to show that some significant number of those people were provably alive and present somewhere on Earth in 1945 or 1946. You've never once provided any proof in that regard.
Nearly one million people were transported to those camps, and only 7000 were there in 1945. All of those prisoners, as well as the staff who were captured and put on tirial for having operated the camp said that the missing 990k+ were killed and their bodies burned. If you want to prove that didn't happen, then post some records proving that even 50k of them were still alive in 1946 and where they were living at that time.
Otherwise your "correctly applied logic" is claiming to prove that something didn't happen. The actual rules of logic dating back to 2500 BC (maybe before that, since it's likely someone not in Greece reached similar thought structures), and accepted by legitimate thinkers of nearly every ideology since then dictate that affirmatively "proving a negative" is not possible. Since absence of proof doesn't equate to proof of absence, there's literally no way to prove that thousands of individual accounts make up a false description unless you can prove that something they're claiming was done in a certain way never happened (in the case of mass murder, that means proving the people in question didn't die when they're claimed to have been killed).
Perhaps the fact that it’s a crime in EVERY nation where it allegedly occurred to look for, find and share the evidence that refutes the bullshit WW2 holocaust is why the lie persists.
There’s no proof that anyone was gassed to death in any prison camp, for that matter killed in a holocaust.
I’ve refuted the paid and coerced fuckwitness stories.
AND when objective forensic analysis is conducted on locations and in the records, I’m confident that it will refute the lie.
Why else would you lying wastes of skin criminalize the research to reveal the truth?
"There’s no proof that anyone was gassed to death in any prison camp, for that matter killed in a holocaust."
There are German government records of around 1 million people being transported to Aushcwitz/Birkau between 1940 and 1945, and there's no dispute that when the camp was captured by Russian forces in 1945 there were roughly 7000 prisoners there. Everyone who was there at the time, many of whom (mainly SS guards) had been there for most of that duration says that the other 990k were killed, and the evidence of the killing destroyed by incinerating the bodies.
What is the motivation for the SS troopers who were tried and executed in Nuremberg to have lied about carrying out the orders they were given to murder people on an industrial scale? If they didn't kill anyone, why not claim that in their own defense rather than to say that they had done it as "soldiers following orders" from their legitimate chain of command?
If all those people weren't killed, and only a few thousand died of cholera, then why were none of those hundreds of thousands of people ever seen alive again anywhere in the world?
If the SS Guards at the camps were all bribed to give that testimony (as you've claimed), then where's the proof that anything of value changed hands? Or do you think that men who were hanged for crimes against humanity were "bribed" with the offer of more lenient treatment by those who killed them?
All of the "proof" you've ever claimed to have shown that hundreds of thousands were killed and incinerated is merely a demand for kinds of physical evidence that you know couldn't possibly exist, and some dipshit fantasy that because Cyanide can eventually be absorbed through the skin (although it requires exposure to concetrations hundreds or thousands of times higher than what's needed for it to be absorbed through the lungs), that means that anyone who moved bodies of those who died from inhalation would have also been immediately killed; the first half of that isn't actually evidence by any meaning of the word, and the second half is a provably false premise.
With thousands of eyewitness accounts, including from people whose motive would be to deny that anything had happened, and the fact that most of the real physical evidence was deliberately destroyed according to those accounts, only people who've been raised to disbelieve those accounts based on a fallacy that a contrived "absence of proof" amounts to some kind of proof of absence (something which is actually directly defined as invalid reasoning under the actual rules of logic as established by Plato and Aristotle over 4000 years ago) could even possibly consider your nonsense to be meaningful in any real way.
I personally don't think it's proper for Germany and other countries to legally prohibit the kind of bullshit you've chosen to believe, but those places don't have free speech protections as strong as the USA, and their government's never asked my opinion before enacting those laws.
"AND when objective forensic analysis is conducted on locations and in the records, I’m confident that it will refute the lie."
Good luck finding any forensic investigator who'd be willing to sign onto the idea that any meaningful analysis could possibly be done on sites that have been open to access by the random public for nearly 80 years. Or that any kind of attempt to find organic compounds which would have decomposed decades ago, or obtain any meaningful DNA markers from mass graves or dispersed crematory ash from 80 year old corpses could possibly produce any meaningful results regardless of what was or wasn't there decades ago.
Your demand is analogous to demanding photographic or plaster cast evidence of the footprints proving that Jesus once walked on water. If you actually thought that the kind of investigation you're demanding could possibly produce any conclusive result, you'd never have demanded it.
Even if some kind of forensic investigation of an 80 year old site failed to find "Jewish DNA" (something which you actually don't believe exists, since you don't accept that there's actually a Jewish Ethnicity), absence of proof doesn't equal proof of absence (actual logic, not your "correctly applied" bullshit version).
Might as well claim that a lack of "martian DNA" in a soil sample from Roswell, NM amounts to proof that there was never a spacecraft crash near the town in the 1950s (except that there aren't tens of thousands of witness accounts/perpetrator confessions and copious government records corroborating the claims of the Roswell crash).
I think that the ashes from millions of bodies would be easy enough to find or determine that there wasn’t any.
After all, the ground hasn’t been disturbed since. It’s been illegal to. You don’t understand archaeology.
if the ashes are dumped/buried without containment or even tilled into the soil, they'd be virtually undetectable in a matter of months, and likely wouldn't contain any DNA since any remnants which might have survived cremation would be degraded after 80 years of exposure to weather, natural microbiome in the soil, and the native plant life.
Maybe if they'd looked in 1943, or possibly 1946 they'd have been able to find something, but nobody at that time had any doubts as to what had happened because the accounts of the people who had been there were considered to be completely credible, and even the Nazis at the time weren't denying what had happened. Besides that, the fact that 1 million prisoners went into that complex and only 7000 left wasn't a thing that anyone at the time saw any ambiguity in. Even if they'd looked at that time, the most they might have been able to do would be to confirm the presence of some kind of ash, since DNA analysis was a technology which didn't yet exist, and they'd have "identified" the remains as belonging to the people who were transported to the camps but never out of them, and who were not accounted for in any other way.
Even your litany of imagined/misinterpreted/invented "proof" that it never happened doesn't offer any alternative explanation for what happened to the missing 990,000 people; if they'd somehow escaped they'd need to have been sneaking out at the rate of nearly 680 per day if it were spread over the entire span of four years. People "sneaking" through the fence-lines by the hundreds isn't something that would seem to be possible as a daily occurrence in a military-run prison, and people sneaking out in groups of thousands or tens of thousands (if they could only make an escape once per month, say) would have drawn some kind of notice by the people in the surrounding areas.
In the 1940s, London was the world's largest city with a population of around 8 million. The nonsensical premise which you refuse to not believe is that 12 million people (Auchwitz was only one of multiple camps) on the continent of Europe vanished without a trace and were never seen again, but all went on to live out their natural lives without making any contact with friends or family, or being noticed by any government of the world as being people who suddenly appeared without any explained origin or personal history, and that, to you, seems plausible in some way?
You obviously don’t understand forensics or archaeology.
What do the fuckwitnesses say happened to all those ashes?
Did zee Germans have big fans to blow the ashes away to hide the evidence while leaving captive fuckwitness jews alive to tell everyone?
Fucking juvenile lies.
Yeah, we know you would love to ditch our U.S. Constitution's prohibition against bills of attainder and inherited titles and emoluments, as well as the entire Bill of Rights, especially the First and Second Amendments, and the Fourteenth Amendment,...so you can go get the Jews, Freemasons, Homosexuals, and everyone else you hate.
Well, this here Atheist, Pansexual, Mongrelized Libertarian is sharpening and flat-black painting his crossbow ammo in his loft for that middle-of-the-night knock on the door!
So, as always, Fuck Off, Nazi!
There’s no way to criminalize simply making false statements in universal context (either willfully or accidentally) without ditching the 1st Amendment. Existing laws which do criminalize deliberately making false statements with the intent to do harm, or in a context where restriction on doing so has been affirmatively accepted via being “under oath” are making the intent and the deliberate infliction of damage criminal; someone who’s under oath isn’t supposed to be convict-able for perjury if they make a false statement which they believe to be true at the time.
Beyond that, your fever-dream of making anyone making any statement in any context criminally liable to prove the truth of that statement (to the satisfaction of either a Judge, a Prosecutor, or both) would amount to scrapping major parts of the 5th and 6th Amendments by putting the burden of proof on the accused rather than on the State, not to mention using the words of the accused as the entirety of the “crime”, meaning everyone charged with your version of “criminalized lying” will literally have to self-incriminate in the course of 1A protected speech.
Lying can be used as part of a plot of coercion, but logic dictates that doesn’t equate to all lies amounting to coercion. A hammer can be used to build a dog-house, but that doesn’t mean that everyone using a hammer is in the process of building a dog-house. All it takes is a working comprehension of the actual rules of logic to understand that; we’re all still trying to work out the parameters of whatever it is you think “correctly applied logic” means, but we’re all very certain that it’s got no meaningful overlap with this:
https://www.mdpi.com/2075-1680/3/1/46
Tell us again how it’s inappropriate to “ditch the constitution when it’s inconvenient”? Your entire agenda would require the repeal of half the bill of rights before the legislation could start to be drafted.
You seem to have difficulty recognizing that lying necessarily includes both INTENT and HARM.
If you could, you might not be able to convince yourself that lying is protected speech.
Let me help you with that.
All but the most feeble minded know when they can prove what they claim or not. It demonstrates INTENT to make a claim that they can’t prove.
All lies compel with the falsified authority reserved for truth. As a result, every successful lie HARMS people by convincing them to make decisions that they wouldn’t have made had they been aware of the lie. At every level lies steal agency.
Refute this if you can.
Lying, under the commonly understood definition, does require intent since it's about saying things that are known to be false at the time. A lot of common lies don't do any meaningful harm, though. Parents allowing a five year old child to believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy are lying to their children, but none intend any harm by doing so.
Technically, it's hypothetically possible for someone to make a factually accurate statement while lying if they're only aware of incorrect or outdated information and haven't been exposed to the proof of a claim which they believe to be false when they make it.
But you've proposed setting the bar for "lying" at basically making any statement that's incorrect, even if the person making it isn't fully informed and fully believes that what they've said is actually true before being shown information which disproves it, or of saying anything which can't be conclusively proven by the person saying it at that time (which is ironic, because you've also stated repeatedly that your own chosen religious beliefs are "truth" despite most of the foundational beliefs being fundamentally unprovable).
"All but the most feeble minded know when they can prove what they claim or not. It demonstrates INTENT to make a claim that they can’t prove."
Only the most feeble minded think that there's much of anything in existence that humanity has complete information about. It's possible that in the near or distant future that something could be discovered which fundamentally alters our current understanding of nearly anything that's currently considered to be "settled".
Even the things we believe now are things which we "can prove" are only based on what we currently know. At one point in human history, the geocentric model of the universe and "flat earth" were considered to be fully proven out by all available evidence (at least to the extent people could understand the evidence), but that didn't make either of those concepts factually correct. Over time, more evidence became available and we now accept the truth of a very different model of the shape of the planet and arrangement of the cosmos. It currently seems extremely unlikely (perhaps even "impossible") that some other proof will come along to prove that conception to be either inaccurate or incomplete, but there's always a possibility of something coming up in higher-order physics to prove the existence of something like higher dimensions which we currently aren't capable of directly perceiving which could completely alter our understanding of fundamental concepts like time, space, and energy.
"All lies compel with the falsified authority reserved for truth. As a result, every successful lie HARMS people by convincing them to make decisions that they wouldn’t have made had they been aware of the lie. At every level lies steal agency.
Refute this if you can."
You're repeatedly exposed to "Jewish scripture" in the form of the Old Testament in your practice of Christianity, and yet you choose to see that entire religion as rooted in lies. Are you somehow unique in retaining the agency to choose not to believe something that you're told (even within the context of something you choose to believe is "truth"), or could you imagine that other people walking around might also be capable of such a feat?
Anyone hearing any claim made has a choice whether or not to believe it, regardless of whether that claim is fundamentally true or false. Read some Cicero, Marcus Aurelius, or Epictetus sometime; the only thing anyone truly controls about the world is how they choose to react to it.
Whether you're told the Earth is round, or that it's flat, the person making the claim can't force you to believe it either way unless you choose to surrender your own agency and defer simply believe whatever you're told.
Then there's the case where a person encounters multiple contradictory claims, this happens almost all of the time these days. The listener retaining their own agency is the only reason why some people might believe one claim, some will believe another, and some could very well believe neither which is completely valid because the mere existence of two dissenting claims doesn't in any way mean that one must be "right" and the other "wrong" (except maybe under the rules of whatever it is that you think "correctly applied" logic means).
If I claim to own the Brooklyn Bridge and offer to sell it to you, there's nothing forcing you to believe my claim, or to want to buy the bridge.
Another example, everyone on these forums who's been repeatedly subjected to your Holocaust denial bullshit has chosen to reject your entire premise, and in many cases have disputed your "evidence". If simply seeing your claims presented as facts forced people to accept them, we'd all be on board with your agenda and also believe that "Hitler didn't try to kill any Jews, but somebody definitely should"; the fact that this has never happened once is yet another refutation of your premise that anyone making any claim robs a listener of agency as to whether or not to believe whatever they're saying.
"All but the most feeble minded know when they can prove what they claim or not. "
You claim that Christianity is the "religion of truth". I take that to mean you can prove definitively that Christ was resurrected, and that his mother hadn't had intercourse prior to his conception.
We'd all love to see the empirical evidence proving those two claims which are foundational to your "religion of truth". Since we all know from you that Jews, and anyone raised in the Jewish faith are all constantly lying about everything, we're going to have to refuse to accept any kind of verbal or written account from anyone present at the time who was raised within the Jewish faith, including Jesus himself, both of his parents, and all twelve of his disciples. Only forensic physical evidence will be deemed acceptable, DNA would be preferable.
You haven’t refuted the fact that lies demonstrate both intent and harm and therefore should be criminalized.
Waste your breath on irrelevant rhetoric for other lying waste of skin trolls like you.
Encouraging a child to believe in the tooth fairy is a lie told by parents which does no harm.
If you understood actual logic, you'd be aware that a single counterexample is sufficient to disprove a categorical claim like the one you're making that every lie causes harm.
I can't prove that you're lying in your claim that I've never refuted your false assertion, but that's only because you've provided so much evidence to support the conclusion that you legitimately can't comprehend (or refuse to process) the multiple times that so much of your nonsense is repeatedly refuted and disproven on these threads.
It's really sufficient to the rest of us that any outside reader who does understand the actual rules of logic, and how they apply to discourse will be able to comprehend the very thing that you're either unwilling or unable (or possibly both?) to process.
Only a lying waste of skin would suggest that teaching a child to lie, coerce, does no harm.
What's harmful about believing in the "Tooth Fairy" from age 5-8?
The teeth involved are falling out naturally, and would do so with or without the idea of some supernatural entity which trades them for small amounts of money or other little gifts. The only change in behavior that's required of the child is to leave the "lost" tooth in a particular location, which costs them nothing and leads to no real consequences.
I'll give you that there's a coercive element to Santa Claus in that it's used to encourage children to be well behaved. The same could be said to be true about telling people to believe in God (by whatever name), or Jesus, or some coming "Messiah" or other event which will lead to rewards for the real "believers" and punishment for everyone else.
One difference is that the concept of god is completely mysticism where the tooth fairy is completely a lie.
Saying that god exists is a lie.
Saying that you believe god exists isn’t.
Faith doesn’t require a lie.
If religion is based on belief and not fact, then proclaiming any particular religion to be "The Religion of Truth" is a lie (especially by your chosen definition in which any unproven claim is as dishonest as one that's known to be false). Are you going to pretend you've never made that particular claim on these forums (and thereby compound your dishonesty)?
You still haven't pointed to a way in which anyone has ever been coerced or harmed by having believed in the "Tooth Fairy" as a small child.
Obligatory.
I guess the one year recognition of government coordinating to censor Republicans is over. Going back to muh private companies.
If the government doesn't give all the private companies instructions as to which information is deemed to be either "false", or "misleading", or in some cases simply "inconvenient", then the fascists might take over....
I asked a friend who's deep in the tech world about the trend of using the word "unalive" to replace references to death/dying/killing/suicide in the captioning on various social media videos, and he explained that it's something done by "content creators" to avoid getting flagged by the algorithm, and that most of the creators probably aren't aware that they're literally applying the structure of Newspeak as laid out in Orwell's 1984.
I suppose to be fair, most online "content creators" are likely barely aware that 1984 was actually a year, let alone a novel.
The left never embraced free speach. They simply wanted to protect their speach all along. The right discovered free speach a decade or two ago and started beating the left over the head with it. So the left is still trying to protect its own speach. They haven’t changed at all.
Why the fuck did the system drop this here? I meant it as a stand alone post.
Fight the system, man!
The FBI must have "encouraged" Reason to thread your comment inappropriately.
Niether side at the extremes has ever really believed in free speech, they just have very different lists of which words everyone would and wouldn't be allowed to say.
Or, in some rare cases, they've had some overlap on what they'd like to ban (frequently porn) but couldn't give any credence to the reason for why the "other side" wanted it banned so they refused to combine efforts
It's not the call out, he's critizing, its the proposed policies. Like the proposed Earn It Act, championed by Graham (in fairness also Blumenthal) which in the name of fighting child porn would place huge burdens on encryption. If a company were to allow someone to send an encrypted image of cp then they could be held liable, but how would they know if it was encrypted. Basically forcing companies to end their encryption services, the number one goal of the government since day one of the internet.
He literally wrote: about the censorship of conservative views.
And he also literally wrote in the same sentence: as they’ve backed various proposals targeting Big Tech.
You're going to screw up Jesse's dishonest narrative. He's trying to portray the author as someone who hates Republicans as much as he hates Democrats, so the rest of the commentariat can join in his hate. The truth has no business in his narrative.
Fuck off drunky. You’re a worthless pussy that is nothing more than an annoyance here. Where Jesse actually contributes verifiable information.
In between blatant lies, yes.
No, Jesse doesn’t lie. Do you have a specific example?
I would be much more willing to give credence if this interpretation if I hadn't seen the author and numerous others on Reason use the 'muh private company' and calling the censorship a conspiracy theory for over a year. And then as soon as the Twitter files came out switch immediately to 'both houses' defense.
That must be very confusing for the situational ethics crowd!
Those Republicans were "bad" because their proposed fix for censorship by Big Tech was to replace it with their own censorship. (That's the "backed various proposals" part of the sentence you quoted.)
If they'd stuck to simply calling out the censorship (or proposed non-censorial fixes), they could have maintained the moral high ground. Instead, they got down in the mud just like the worst of their opponents.
^BINGO^
"Conservatives have already shown a willingness to insert government into speech considerations, so they are left flat-footed as leftists hatch plots to rejigger open debate. Whenever the Right plays footsie with big government, the Left then ups the ante—and conservatives end up wondering what happened."
Seen it happen so many times this comment made the whole article.
You're mistaking Jesse for an honest person. He's not being honest. He's deliberately misrepresenting what the author said in order to push the narrative of bias against Republicans. He has no interest in the truth. You should know this by now.
Jesse is honest, you’re not. This is part of why you’re so hated here. You’re also a Buffon, a laughing stock.
You’re the digital equivalent of Otis the town drunk form ‘The Andy Griffith Show’.
Exactly. The idea only one side wants censorship is absurd.
Hey, I just heard on the news, loud and clear, that they nailed the bastard falsely accusing President Joe Biden of taking $5 million dollars from Ukraine businesses.
For a while there, I thought they might be guilty of anything. Glad my wrongthink is corrected.
We must prosecute whistleblowers to save Democracy.
We must prosecute conservative whistleblowers to save Democracy.
Long term FBI source since 2010. Agency has paid him 6 figures. But he went after a dem.
So not only is the guy allegedly a Russian liar trying to interfere in US elections, but he defrauded US taxpayers out of "6 figures" in the process.
And an FBI source since 2010. Gee, that does call into question the veracity of the other things he's been "informing" on, doesn't it?
We must persecute whistleblowers to save democrats.
Lying for money is now "whistleblowing". Got it.
Is that what you do for a living? I just assumed you were in welfare or held a government job.
So from what I read the "lie" was he said he got the $5M as VP but the meetings the source used were from meetings in 2017. So he was off by a year (even though Joe himself can't remember the year). Oddly still no charges for anyone involved with the Steele Dossier lies.
Need to to clean house at DoJ under a real AG for that to happen. Should Trump succeed in November, he needs to bring in an outsider. Maybe a state AG that isn’t beholden to the DC crowd. A real fire breather who will mercilessly go after the deep state and offer zero cover to democrats.
Yeah, Trump is so incompetent (he hires the "best people") he needs a second four years to do basic things like install his own people in top positions in the Administration.
Biden didn't seem to have that problem--and he's senile!
Biden has the most worthless people in American history. Mayorkas, Buttgag, KJP, Kirby, Blinken, etc.. Absolute worthless filth.
I’m sure you’re a huge fanboy for all of them.
The Steele Dossier was fabricated by the HRC 2016 campaign, supposedly as "oppo" research. If they were to start prosecuting anyone for lies that came from political campaigns, we'd have 536 "special elections" for elected Federal offices nationwide in the very near future.
The people who ran with it and really did meaningful damage (Adam Schiff and those who voted for impeachment of trump the first time) will be hard to prosecute since it would be necessary to prove that they were aware that the document had pretty much been fabricated, and considering how deeply they wanted to believe the claims in the Dossier, it's unlikely they asked many questions before taking it as if it were all verified and for all of the damage they did, it'd be hard to prove criminal intent on their part, let alone any willful dishonesty in how they reacted to their choice to believe what they did.
Pluggo's busy crowing about it in the Roundup.
And alternately walking it to kiddie porn.
Did you click on it again?
You must be thinking of yourself. You are a pretty stupid deviant cunt after all.
Steven, they cut loose free speech the moment it was not beneficial to them.
Speech codes on campuses are not a conservative thing, as an example.
Progressives Are Ditching Free Speech To Fight 'Disinformation'
Bullshit.
Progs are ditching free speech to eliminate dissent, even when ludicrous.
^+1000000000000 Well said. Exactly.
He who controls the narrative and formulates the bien pensants controls everything.
Welcome to 1994, Greenhut. This has been going on for quite some time, and getting progressively worse.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110759/
This one probably defines way too much of the protesting left: "These, Tom, are the Causeheads. They find a world-threatening issue and stick with it for about a week."
These ideas included limits on liability protections
LOL. Libertarians for unlimited liability protections!
"When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination." - Thomas Sowell
HE'S SO OLD!
That is true, to an extent. But, like protection of the US gun industry from certain types of lawsuits, it may be necessary in order to protect a fundamental right from the "injustice" of the justice system itself. The goal of gun industry lawsuits is not to "make guns safer", but to stop all new gun sales--and they very well could succeed, based on "standard" US product liability law. Is that a-okay with you, lest the gun industry realize "special treatment" designed to keep it from being destroyed--with an inevitable negative impact on gun rights guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment?
Is that "preferential treatment" in your book? How else would you accomplish such a goal?
The so called "progressives" ditched free speech long ago, in order to spread disinformation
fixed that for you
Progressives and other dedicated leftists never supported free speech (or any personal freedom), at least in a universal sense. Any claims to embrace liberty were short term tactics and marketing, perhaps echoed by whoever volunteered as useful idiots at the time.
By definition, to be progressive is to hold visions of utopian futures that require radical change, AND to feel justified imposing those changes on all people, willing or not. And the most dedicated, and evil, progressives want those changes manifest in actual beliefs people hold, not just compliance. They have no tolerance for speech, or thought, that contradicts dogma.
Well said.
I was going to say something snarky about them never supporting it, but you said everything I wanted to.
laws that require cellphone users to disable government-mandated filters before having open access to apps.
Shouldn't that say "to enable" the filters? Or are we talking about a conflict between two levels of government, one requiring filters and the other requiring that they be disabled?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/obama-s-cia-enlisted-foreign-assistance-to-spy-on-26-trump-team-members/ar-BB1ilVcO?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=acf7f0f915a640b29eef8fe6d861b065&ei=21
"Now, we all have information overload, and it's hard to know what to believe."
The remedy for this is to read a range of "established" sources whose bias is well known and discern the truth from the clash.
"These days, Americans can't even agree on a basic set of facts before developing an opinion."
This is irrelevant. Opinions no longer matter when our lords and masters impose policies on us.
"Whenever the Right plays footsie with big government, the Left then ups the ante—and conservatives end up wondering what happened."
I think this is a mischaracterization. Reformulating this: the Left ups the ante every chance it gets, not particularly in response to the Right in some kind of competition. The real competition between the two is the competition to assert who has the largest dick in the warhawk category. The left and the right are still on opposite sides of the "what speech should be suppressed to protect who" competition.
Just so we're on the same page here, are you referring to "the Right" as a group separate and distinct from the "non-RINO" Trumpian MAGAs? Because they sure seem to think they're the real Republicans (in case you didn't know what "RINO" means).
MAGA is most of the Republican Party. People who want this to be a good country. Unlike democrats and RINOkind.
“It’s one thing to target a concerted online disinformation campaign from the Chinese Communist Party, but quite another to clamp down on “misinformation”” I disagree. The two things are exactly the same in terms of the potential for abuse of power. People do not need to be protected against falsehood. While I may need to protect myself against my neighbors acting upon false information, expecting the government to protect me against the actions or opinions of bad neighbors is foolish. And the government deciding what false information to suppress is worse than the problem of people acting on false information! The remedy for false information guiding public policy is to severely limit the range and scope of government authority to impose policies on us.
And the first amendment legally demands that free speech is universal. It says "congress shall make no law" not "congress shall make no law unless there is a foreign disinformation campaign happening".
Perhaps. But if that results in an environment of total chaos in which nobody can believe anything, don't be surprised if "the people" then decide that having a government which can protect them from that total chaos isn't preferable to your hands-off approach.
There are many signed (by name) documents of Democrat Congressmen insisting media censorship. Prosecuting the blatantly obvious for treason would be a good start of stopping this disaster from progressing. Yet here it is years later and not even a hint of prosecution. These congressmen have literally signed a testament of guilt.
Seems the only discussion from most politicians on the topic is which gang of politicians gets to conquer the 1st Amendment (USA's definition). The endless championing of 'our democracy' has literally destroyed the USA and turned it into a [WE] mob gangland war. Maybe it's time everyone realized once again that the USA is NOT a democracy. It's a *Constitutional* (Supreme Law) Union of States.
I'm pretty sure expressing an opinion on censorship is not a criminal act.
You might even characterize it as a "free speech" issue...
Senator Warren's attempts to amplify mis/disinformation from WSJ are threatening to endanger Americans' rights to trade freely.
https://www.pmbug.com/threads/americas-war-on-crypto.5711/post-93324
More dangerous speech! Ban it!
It is obvious that most Democrats only want to protect Free Speech when their speech is threatened. The same is true with some Republicans, but Republican speech is more often threatened than Democrat speech. As a result there are less Republicans desiring to threaten Free Speech.
I have no doubt that is all the social institutions were not essentially Democrat sycophants, but instead allied with Republicans that this would be reversed. At this point in history, the Democrat is a far greater threat to the principle of Free Speech than the Republicans are and Republicans are more inclined to promote the principle of Free Speech.
Hold my beer while I burn this flag...
>>it's a good guess it will mean creepy government control over our discourse.
talk to whoever the fuck you want to. why let those assholes get in the way?
There is no good solution to the problem of disinformation - as evidence of which, you can't even get people to agree on what information is in fact disinformation.
Letting the government decide is not going to be even the best of the bad solutions.
The best solution is to stop pretending that there is a solution. People just need to be appropriately skeptical about what they read or hear, especially on the internet. Pretending that there is a solution to "disinformation" just gives people the idea that they ought to be able to believe what they read on twitter or see on youtube without applying a critical eye and seeking other sources. The truth is a really hard thing to nail down, always has been and always will be.
"The people" are not nearly so deferential to bold statements of rights as the chattering classes (which in this case, includes us).
I wholeheartedly agree with you in theory, but I fear that if the people get fed up with a country in which "truth" means nothing and nothing can be believed, they may act to reform it. They may eventually demand it. (I mean, they fucking passed the 18th Amendment!) Hopefully, nothing like that will happen in my lifetime...
2015 would like credit for its article.
I am glad to see this issue properly bowf sidezed though.
Actually, it’s 1961 that should get credit. Martha Minow’s dad was FCC Commissioner, Newton Minow, who proclaimed television to be “a vast wasteland” that provided garbage to viewers.
Martha was up for the Supreme Court to replace John Paul Stevens but she was nosed out by one of her students, Elena Kagan.
Obama said that Martha changed his life. I suppose that meant that she provided a rationale for censorship.
Perhaps she should be sterilized, two generations of censors is enough. On the other hand, at the age of 69, she is no longer a threat to spawn more censors.
We should just get rid of all the Marxists. Are they really worth what we’re going through now? And what we k ow is to come?
Scrape them all off while we still can.
I heard the World's Greatest Athlete was a woman when Caitlyn Jenner won the 1976 Olympic Decathlon.
Shhhh...Herr Misek might confiscate the earnings of whatever biz-op you have in the name of "The Common Good Over The Individual Good."
🙂
😉