Madame Web Is a Low Point for Superhero Movies
Listless and incoherent, it's a sign of the genre's struggles.

Madame Web is a superhero movie about someone with precognitive powers: To the extent that you can actually understand what her powers are, it's that she can see the future and in some cases act to stop terrible events from happening. You can tell it's fiction because this movie exists.
Listless and incoherent throughout, Madame Web is a low-point for the superhero movie era, and I've seen Morbius. But not only does it demonstrate the genre's recent struggles, it points to a way out for Hollywood.
Like Morbius, Madame Web is kinda-sorta-maybe adjacent to the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) that has swallowed up so much of moviedom over the last 15 years. It's kinda-sorta-maybe related in that it opens with the familiar Marvel logo, and it is based on a character who debuted in the pages of one of Marvel's Spider-Man comics. But although Spider-Man has appeared in a handful of full-on MCU films over the years, the film rights to the character have long been owned by a rival studio, Sony, thanks to some complicated rights deals that go back decades.
After a couple of Spider-Man films underperformed, however, Sony cut a deal with Marvel to let the webhead into the mainline MCU—but Sony would retain the rights to develop films based on ancillary characters from Spider-Man comics, in something that has been referred to as the Spider-Verse. (Even more confusingly, this has very little to do with the animated Spider-Verse movies.) This paved the way for a series of movies based on Spidey villains and side characters, which so far include Venom, Carnage, Morbius, and now Madame Web.
Madame Web is not a character that most people are familiar with; I grew up subscribing to multiple Spider-Man titles, and even then, I encountered her rarely if ever. So you might be wondering: What is Madame Web about?
Madame Web is about an ambulance driver named, I kid you not, Cassandra Webb, who lives in New York in 2003. Decades earlier, a prologue shows, her pregnant mom spent time in Peru researching rare spiders, which apparently had powers to do…something? It's hard to say what. Heal people, perhaps? But just as the mother discovers the rare spider she's been searching for, a glowering bearded guy shoots her and steals the spider to use for his own nefarious purposes. Mama Webb is then taken by what appears to be a group of jungle-men (?) wearing red-and-black leotards (??) decorated to look sort of like a Broadway production of a Spider-Man musical set in the Amazon (???). They swing down from the trees and whisk her away to a mysterious glowing cave place (????), but then, uh, Cassandra's mom dies anyway.
Back in 2003, Cassandra is involved in a vehicle accident. She blacks out and has a mind-altering experience that is rendered on screen as what I can only describe as a couple minutes of computer-generated graphics goop, with Cassandra floating in the midst of a web (get it?!) of threaded sparkling light and images that will appear later in the film, like a blue balloon. A few minutes later, she attends a baby shower.
Eventually, she's involved in an attack on the subway by the same guy who killed her mom, only now he's wearing a black Spider-Man-style costume and crawling on the ceiling. (His name is Ezekiel Sims, but the other characters mostly refer to him as "Ceiling Guy.") He wants to kill three younger women, because he's had visions that they will kill him. Apparently, he can see the future too? Also, he can poison people by touching them, and he has stolen a bunch of early-'00s National Security Agency facial recognition technology. And every single one of the actor's lines appear to have been dubbed and possibly totally changed in post-production, so the effect is sort of like watching a foreign film with the English language track on.
In the villain's visions, the young women who kill him are wearing Spider-Woman-esque costumes, and they demonstrate various superhero-comic-style powers. But I want to make clear: At no point in the movie outside of those visions do any of these women, or for that matter Cassandra, put on superhero costumes and go do superhero stuff. This is a superhero movie in which none of the supposed superheroes ever become actual superheroes. It's a prequel to an origin story—a setup to a setup.
In other words, it's incomprehensible superhero-adjacent garbage, but at least the movie seems self-aware about it. There are several scenes devoted to the characters attempting to discern what's going on—the sort of scenes that would usually serve as tidy exposition dumps—in which generally sensible questions are answered with lines like "What good is science?" and "I don't know. Crazy shit's been happening and I don't know why. Stop asking me." Fair enough. Eventually, an exasperated Cassandra decides to leave the three young future Spider-Women for a bit, but before she leaves she tells the three younger women, "Just don't do anything dumb!" and then doubles back to say once more: "Seriously! Don't do dumb things." If she could actually see the future, she would know that her warnings were in vain. All of this occurs before she returns to the glowy cave in Peru, where a guy who has somehow been waiting for decades informs her that she has a bunch of other powers too. Sadly, none of these powers include the ability to make Madame Web even remotely entertaining.
Madame Web comes at a perilous time for the superhero movie business. Films based on DC comics underperformed with audiences and critics throughout last year, and two of Marvel's big 2023 installments—Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania and The Marvels—were box office disappointments. The coming year will see just one full-on MCU film (Deadpool & Wolverine) and fewer major superhero films than theaters have hosted in years.
For much of the last decade, people have wondered when the reign of superhero movies would be over, and how it might end. In the wake of last year's blockbuster failures, Madame Web shows the way out: At some point, the movies will simply be so bad that the genre can't continue. Yes, superhero movies will still be made; Marvel announced the cast of its forthcoming Fantastic Four reboot this week. But they will occupy a less exalted place in Hollywood and the culture. Inadvertently, then, Madame Web does provide a clear vision of the future—one where superhero movies matter less and less.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Oh, just you wait, Peter--based off the reporting about Disney being taken over by radical left activists recruited from Tumblr by Bob Iger and Jennifer Lee, this cancer has metastasized throughout the industry. We're in an "Eight Model Plays" era of the current Cultural Revolution, with all the artistic sclerosis that implies.
Also, this film wouldn't have gotten any worse reviews, but probably would have made more money, if it had just involved Sydney Sweeney's character walking around in a Spider-Man-themed bikini for the whole show.
With several dance scenes.
And "Girls Girls Girls" playing as the soundtrack.
I might actually pay to go see her in some Spidey underoos. Hubba Hubba.
If the capeshit craze had happened 25 years ago, there’s no question someone like her would have been cast as Super Girl or, better yet, Power Girl.
Power Girl? Have you looked at her measurements? No way could she pull off that missing diamond outfit
No one could realistically play Rogue with her measurements, either, but that doesn't mean a better choice than Anna Paquin could have been found.
You beat me to it. I would also suggest a shower scene with the four lead girls soaping each other that goes on for half an hour.
Cleanliness is next to super-heroness.
A shitty Marvel movie?
Well I never...
Stale. Always the fate of the universe depends on one item. And they always come through to be heroes, eventually.
The fate of the universe depends on how often the strong female lead uses the "F-word" throughout the movie.
Don't forget about how far down the first male performer, unless the actor is openly trans, can be pushed down on the "call sheet".
"This is a superhero movie in which none of the supposed superheroes ever become actual superheroes."
That's because this movie is grounded in reality. Madame Web is a truly dynamic character.
What part of a person becoming able to see into the future because of a spider bite seems grounded in reality to you?
The part where it don't work so hot.
When an Internet post seems nonsensical, but contains a link, the link just might provide the necessary context.
If you don't enjoy being sent to Youtube, the joke is that the Madame Web marketing department probably knows it has a dud on its hands. So it's emphasizing the "grounded in reality" angle in a likely futile effort to distance MW from other recent underperforming superhero films.
'Grounded in reality' is code for nothing spectacular happens, it's probably gritty with a washed out color palette, and...well it's probably boring too.
Consider this: who watches super hero films for 'grounded in reality'? Certainly some of those films attempt a more realistic world where super hero's exist, The Boys comes to mind, but ultimately it's escapism.
If people want 'grounded in reality' they'll go see Maestro or something.
Considering anime of high school students is widely popular in Japan, im going with the Japanese.
Jessica Jones was fairly grounded in reality outside of the superhero things and it worked fairly well. The problem is the writers are not grounded in reality so their basic touchpoint is way off.
One of the main writers for this movie, SJ Clarkson, worked on Jessica Jones.
yo that link is fucking hysterical.
Daredevil was grounded in reality, but it was good. The fact is that woke writers always write shit. So this is shit.
Christopher Walken called. Said "Stillson for Senate"
I once thought superheroes were cool. Then I turned 16.
What about Billy Butcher? That MF is cool.
Well. Aren't you a big boy then.
All grown up.
I pick out my own clothes, too.
Same, but for me it was when they gave Batman nipples.
So, not the same.
If memory serves, Joel Schumacher has apologized for that entire aborted attempt.
That was one of the more surprising things I found out about later on. Seriously, kudos to him for at least admitting what he put out was trash instead of blaming the audience for not “getting it.”
Although, I have to admit that “Batman and Robin” and is a guilty pleasure thanks to Uma Thurman channeling Mae West, peak Alicia Silverstone in latex, and Arnold clearly having the time of his life playing a hammy heel character while chewing the scenery like fucking Pac-Man.
"Although, I have to admit that “Batman and Robin..."
Ya, its a trainwreck of a movie, but the stuff they did lean in to at least makes me smile a little bit. Campy goofiness with some hot chicks in spandex. Ill take that over being lectured for the 1000th time by a SJW scold (read: modern director/writer)
M. Night Shyamalan takes a lot of very deserved criticism, but he did something very well in Unbreakable: he made a movie, and then weaved the superhero elements into what was otherwise an almost complete film. This throw a bunch of superhero shit on the screen and hope for the best makes for lousy movies.
Unbreakable was exceptional.
Yes .
I agree. It was a very good movie with an actual plot. Silly plot but coherent.
And "Split" was good, with the last-second callback to "Unbreakable" elevating the ending and undeniably MNS's last good twist/gotcha moment.
He kind of fell into the same trap the Coen Brothers often do, where he's more invested in trying to say, "look how clever this is!" as opposed to maintaining a consistent story arc. But "Unbreakable" is one of those films where doing that actually works, because the buildup and then the reveals don't condescend to the audience. In my opinion, it's the best movie he's ever done.
Unbreakable on it's own is awesome because it leaves the answer ambiguous but leaning but the non-supe answer is better as it's just a man choosing to make things better.
I can only describe as a couple minutes of computer-generated graphics goop
Yeah, that sounds about right.
And every single one of the actor's lines appear to have been dubbed and possibly totally changed in post-production, so the effect is sort of like watching a foreign film with the English language track on.
Makes you wonder if this was filmed for primary release in another market, with the American market as an afterthought. Probably not though, since that would be a level of crazy no one in Hollywood would bother with...unless maybe it was recorded in Chinese perhaps.
China's not really into DEI drek and are notoriously contemptuous of black people in particular. Hollywood's problem is that this is all they're making these days, so they can't even rely on China to fluff up their box office anymore.
The story sounded so boring, I couldn't even finish this article.
I just skipped right to the comments.
I almost always do anymore.
I just saw Quantumania it was ok it was good. The Kang plotline might be interesting.
Quantumania was okay. Kang might be interesting if you're a comic book nerd with deep knowledge of 60s-70s era marvel. It's probably the most confusing character continuity in existence, and has been since the early 70s.
It's going to be an absolute disaster for the casual movie-goer.
Kang had a good arc in the 80’s. Marvel had a lot of good righting at that point. The Peter David run on Incredible Hulk, Walt Simonson on Thor, and John Byrne on Fantastic Four (which contributed a lot of good thing to Kang) come to mind.
Uh, considering the main actor got nipped for domestic violence last year and removed from the role, you're not going to be seeing that any time soon.
To paraphrase Matt (from the Aussie comedy show "Yeah Mad"):
"Different Kang,".
This sounds like it would have (maybe) been improved by being a musical and just owning its campiness.
Also, Madame Webb is such a deep cut. I don't understand who is making these decisions. Even just limiting yourself to female characters who first appeared in some Spider-man book... Silver Sable? Black Cat? People would actually recognize those. But Madame Webb? I've got a pretty deep knowledge of Marvel, especially for the relevant era, and I could barely remember the name (and couldn't picture the outfit).
I don’t understand who is making these decisions.
Activists.
Not even joking. Read or watch the "Disney DEI Files" features being put out by Alan Ng and Chris Gore on Film Threat--the same shit that happened at Disney to make these counter-intuitive business decisions about their entertainment products is the exact same crap going on at Sony, Amazon, Netflix, Paramount, etc. Bring in a bunch of BPD Tumblrinas to your company to be "influencers," give them explicit license to force or chase out the "old white guys" and anyone with talent who isn't on board with the Critical Theory theology via an office gossip network, implement a "not so secret gay agenda to insert queerness into everything," and have a commissar bureau like Women In Animation or the Writers' Guild to keep blacklists and act as gatekeepers for pushing Current Year versions of cultural marxism.
As someone who grew up on old reruns of MST3K (the show itself was just before my time), I enjoy watching all sort of bad movies. These Spider-manless Spider-man movies have been a real treat, let me tell you.
Really looking forward to that Kraven the Hunter joint that is coming out later.
"(His name is Ezekiel Sims, but the other characters mostly refer to him as "Ceiling Guy.")"
Shiiiiit, they are going into the Spider Totem stuff? Good fucking luck.
I’m surprised they didn’t call him ‘cis gendered oppressor of the patriarchy’.
The big mystery is how the writers of this movie keep getting movies made. Their past output is Ed Wood bad, minus the camp value.
It helps when the writers have the strongest union in all of Hollywood.
Guess they spend all their time on union crap because I have not seen a coherently written movie is quite some time certainly not in the super hero realm.
Some of the genius writers gave us Captain Marvel, Snow White (so bad it was not released on time), re-makes of Ghostbusters (disaster), Oceans 11 as Oceans 8 (even bigger disaster) and decided the best thing for Pirates of The Caribbean is to have Johnny Depp replaced by a female, a female James Bond, female Thor...I could keep going. The pushing out of males as writers in the comic book industry by woke females is well known which is why the comic mags are unreadable and full of nonsense ideology with decades old characters suddenly switching sexes or being gay. Sometimes both
There is a rumor that the upcoming X-men 97 animated series from from Disney will feature a gay romance between Wolverine and Morph.
No mystery, DEI. Talent is irrelevant at every level if you tick the appropriate boxes for the ideology.
And every single one of the actor's lines appear to have been dubbed and possibly totally changed in post-production, so the effect is sort of like watching a foreign film with the English language track on.
I love this idea. The effect of psychic result of Charles seizing in Logan was done by shaking the camera and then correcting it shake reduction software. This sounds a similar cost saving measure (although for different reasons). Of course, that was a good movie.
Dude, this is just movie soundtrack equity. Instead of all other language versions being inferior to the native English original, now we all get shit sound.
Best superhero movie ever made was still the original Superman. Second best was Batman: The Dark Knight. Both DC movies by the way.
Marvel had a brief splash starting with Ironman and ending with Endgame, with plenty of stinkers along the way. But somehow the Hurr Durr crowd keeps saying the DC sucks and Marvel rules, when in fact superhero movies themselves are hit or miss at the best of times.
Just like westerns before them, and then Star Wars ripoffs, the superhero genre has run it course. Hollywood is devoid of originality, and they've sucked the superhero genre dry. Now there will be something else to replace superhero movies. Maybe it will be another wave of disaster movies to reflect the zeitgeist, or another wave of zombie movies to reflect the immigration debate, or maybe even back to westerns to reflect the down home values of Br0keback. Or maybe cop buddy movies. Whatever. Superhero movies are done with.
Spider-Man 2 was pretty awesome, as well.
The problem isn’t superhero movies. The problem is leftist writers being allowed to express their inane ideas in any film. The genre doesn’t matter.
Leftists ruin everything they touch.
"After a couple of Spider-Man films underperformed, however, Sony cut a deal with Marvel to let the webhead into the mainline MCU—but Sony would retain the rights to develop films based on ancillary characters from Spider-Man comics, in something that has been referred to as the Spider-Verse. (Even more confusingly, this has very little to do with the animated Spider-Verse movies.)"
Wow, what a tangled web.
Theres a clip of Seth Meyers (I know, clown) trying to tease out from Johnson how this movie fits into the MCU and the 'Spiderverse' and to be honest, her very confused response and inability to explain it is really the fault of the retard level writers who made these very dumb choices.
Its funny that the reason they did choose this very ambiguous grey zone where Uncle Ben is there but not Aunt May, and its in a weird timeline where one of the older spidermen should be around but arent, and it references all of the spiderman stuff without including and of the big characters...
They did all this so they could pretty much have creative freedom. None of their choices will infringe on any existing storylines or characters. Part of the reason they want this is they are too lazy and uninterested to read the comics and learn the lore (this has been an ongoing trend recently with these movies, they want to tell THEIR story (propaganda)). The other part is that it gives them license to kind of write whatever new story they want...
And this absolute boring shit sandwich of a story is what they came up with.
It always keep coming down to the writers and director. They are picking from a pool of people that have liberal arts degrees, have spent their time in blue bubbles, and they have no actual talent. All they can produce is propaganda, and in a film like this where it seems like they at least weren't using the normal amount of propaganda (lots), they are left to rely on their storytelling and creativity, and those are skills they have never honed
I think we should at least agree as a society that wants to be entertained, that the women's movement has run its course and its time to move on.
Marvel phase 4 and on, and a lot of these other studios projects, have been obsessively focused on not only DEI, but also increasing women in the cast and women as writers/directors. Feige for Marvel openly stated he wanted, at minimum, 50% of the heroes in the MCU to be women, and they subsequently also started relying on female directors of various diversity levels, often untested. Some of the most notable ones have been, and it wont be a surprise...The Marvels, The Eternals, Madame Webb. There are more, but these three are particularly notable for being the bottom of the barrel for movies in general, and for super hero movies.
We have leaned into feminizing everything and giving women a chance to try out all the jobs. Its not working. Super hero movies are a genre, with exceptions of course, that is for young dudes, and best written by other dudes. It just is. You are putting these ladies in roles directing or writing for people that arent them, that they dont understand, that they will never understand, and they keep producing the same thing: more terrible writing, less association with the actual source material, and importantly, bleeding ticket sales.
Women, you had a nice little try, but its time to let the dudes take back over. Even other women dont want to watch this shit. The Marvels was a box office disaster and one of the worst movies ever, with all girl power everywhere...and the audience, as small as it was, was STILL 2/3 male. A small number of men are even interested at all, and almost no women are.
Lets just stop. We have shaq sitting on the bench twiddling his thumbs and fucking mugsy bogues in the paint trying to get rebounds, and we are losing the game by 50 points...can we just cut the bullshit and stop giving opportunities to people that clearly have no chance at this?
If a society wants to be entertained, it can never have a women's movement.
your terms are acceptable to me
Clearly. Why ENB still hasn’t gotten me my sandwich.
Is there any side-boob? Cuz I ain't goin if there ain't no side-boob.
Probably the best comment in the entire thread.
What this comes down to is women ruin everything.
One way to tell if it's a dud is how hard the studio pushes it. Inverse relationship.
I vaguely remember the character from my comic collecting days: she was an elderly blind woman who was paralyzed. When they depart this far from the source material, it’s a non-starter for me.
Of course. She also wasn’t ‘fighting the patriarchy’. So that’s different too.
"...she can see the future and in some cases act to stop terrible events from happening. You can tell it's fiction because this movie exists. "
This is some award winning snark.