Conservative Group Concedes It Can't Back Up Its Election Fraud Charges
True the Vote told a Georgia court that it can't produce any evidence to support claims of widespread ballot fraud in Georgia.

In the aftermath of the 2020 presidential election, a conservative group named True the Vote claimed that President Joe Biden's narrow victory in Georgia was the result of widespread ballot fraud—including what it called "coordinated efforts" to stuff ballot drop boxes in the Atlanta metro area.
When ordered by a district judge to provide evidence supporting those explosive claims, however, True the Vote offered a very different story. In documents submitted to a Fulton County court in December and made public this week, the group repeatedly denied having any evidence of the alleged ballot fraud or contact information for alleged whistleblowers with knowledge of the supposed scheme.
True the Vote had been ordered to turn over evidence to the State Election Board as part of an ongoing investigation into claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, which first reported on the new court filings Wednesday. The state board sought a subpoena after the conservative group had previously declined to share its evidence—despite having filed a complaint with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger in 2021 in which True the Vote said it possessed "a detailed account of coordinated efforts to collect and deposit ballots in drop boxes across metro Atlanta."
Some of those claims were recycled into a movie by conservative provocateur Dinesh D'Souza, including surveillance videos that allegedly showed ballot boxes being stuffed. A subsequent investigation by the state board found that those claims were unfounded: The individuals identified in D'Souza's movie were dropping off ballots filled out by family members, which is legal under Georgia law.
The inability of True the Vote to turn over any additional corroborating evidence or provide the court and state board with documentation to support its claims is another blow to the group's credibility—and to the ongoing efforts by Trump supporters to invalidate the 2020 election.
Meanwhile, Georgia officials have completed three recounts showing that Biden won the 2020 election there, and subsequent investigations have failed to turn up evidence of widespread voter fraud. In response to former President Donald Trump's claim that thousands of dead people voted in Georgia, the state election board found that a total of four absentee ballots were cast by voters who had deceased before Election Day. Similarly, the Trump campaign's claim that two election workers in Atlanta engaged in malfeasance while counting votes was disproven after a state investigation.
"Once again, True the Vote has proven itself untrustworthy and unable to provide a shred of evidence for a single one of their fairy-tale allegations," Mike Hassinger, a spokesman for Raffensperger's office, told the Associated Press. "Like all the lies about Georgia's 2020 election, their fabricated claims of ballot harvesting have been repeatedly debunked."
An absence of evidence is not always evidence of an absence, but at a certain point, it seems reasonable to expect those who have made explosive claims of election fraud to offer something to demonstrate the validity of those theories.
From Rudy Giuliani to Sidney Powell to True the Vote, it now seems obvious that many individuals and groups with an interest in seeing Trump reelected either fabricated or exaggerated claims of election fraud after the 2020 election. They have a right to make outlandish claims, but no one should feel an obligation to take such evidence-free claims seriously.
Next time—and there will almost certainly be a next time—everyone ought to take a deep breath and approach claims of widespread voter fraud more skeptically.
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Meanwhile, Georgia officials have completed three recounts showing that Biden won the 2020 election there, and subsequent investigations have failed to turn up evidence of widespread voter fraud.
I don’t know anything about True The Vote, but I do know something about SOME of the various legal challenges, and several of them have demanded detailed signature and chain-of-custody audits, all of which have been declined. So let’s just say I’d be real… REAL careful about pointing to ‘recounts’ as “proof” that there’s no “widespread fraud”. Because recounting the ballots, if tainted, is not proof against fraud.
Every time someone alleges election fraud, and you start barking about "recounts", you're literally pouring gasoline on the
conspiracy theoriesspoiler alerts.I interested in how you would conduct a signature or change of custody audit? I ask this because I am not sure that signatures even means anything today. I occasionally get asked for a signature at the store, but it is on a pad and all that is required is to draw my finger across the pad. I can sign forms online which are just a print version of my name with a script font. I have signed forms that are significant and when this is done it is in an office and my signature is cosigned by a notary public. Are you suggesting that all signatures get that kind of scrutiny?
I find all these suggestions of audits amusing because calling for an audit and actually detailing the scope of work for an audit are very different things. One is easy and the other very much not easy.
How signatures are matched.
I ask this because I am not sure that signatures even means anything today.
This would be an excellent way to fortify an election.
Better answer. Vote in person with ID on election day. Maintain an unbroken chain of custody monitored by reps from at least two parties.
It's worked for hundreds of years around the world. We used to do that, too.
That's how we do it in South Dakota. But we are a bunch of backwoods redneck racists who still think a government issued photo ID is meaningful.
I noticed you did not explain how to do an audit.
You can't do an audit that would stand up to what a court requires. Simple as that. As long as you have allies in the ballot receiving and counting area you can do a lot that can't be proved.
If signatures aren't shit these days (and I think you are right about that) then there should probably be a better way to verify the identities of absentee voters, no?
I don't claim to know if any election was stolen or not, and I don't even have a particularly strong opinion on the subject. But the huge increase in absentee voting in 2020 definitely leaves a lot of room for potential fraud that would be difficult to detect. I would propose that absentee ballots go back to being what they were supposed to be: for people who are actually absent of voting day or who are physically unable to leave their homes. Everyone else can figure out how to get to a polling place on election day if they want to vote.
Sure. Vote in person with proof of citizenship and residency. Maintain an unbroken chain of custody. Scan all ballots and make the scans available to the public so that people can independently conduct various forensic reviews of the evidence.
Fair elections are simple, and happen in lots of countries every year. Just not here.
Yes... but you see, with fair elections Team Blue would never win a single federal office ever again. So naturally, they fight it tooth and nail at every turn...
I have my own ideas on how to conduct honest elections. Yes, some kind of photo ID and get rid of absentee ballots; if you can't show up in person, too bad, so sad. But the counting and vote stuffing is where fraud is easiest.
Every voter gets a vote receipt showing date (not time), all the votes cast, and a unique random receipt ID. Nothing on the receipt includes any personally identifiable information.
At the close of voting, publish all voter receipts. Now EVERYONE can verify their own ballot and bring in the receipt if it differs or is missing.
Now the only way to stuff votes now is with extra votes. Make that harder by requiring every voting precinct have poll watchers from every party, and they count voters. When receipts are published, the totals have to be darned close or something is fishy.
And you've just done away with the secret ballot.
Fair elections are racist.
Businesses verify IDs all the time and they do it without signatures. In the modern world we use PINs and verification codes and there is no reason we could not do the same for voting.
Yes there are lots of ways it can be done. I favor just making people go to the polls if they want to vote because I don't think it should be made as easy as possible. You should have to care enough to actually make some effort. But, yes there are ways voting by mail could be made secure too.
It is not just making it easy as possible it also about making it possible for people. We live in a very busy, almost frantic world. People are busy with work and kids. If you want in-person voting, then you have to think about changing the system. I would suggest a voting week with polls accessible 24/7 for that week.
The fact is that mail in voting has been shown to be as valid as in person voting, despite what people like to say. And there are some really good things about voting from your kitchen table, especially for down ballet races. You can look up information on the candidates for school board and then decide. Now I do that before I go to the polls, but I am retired and have the time.
That's a silly statement. You have to spend the same amount of research time in all those ways.
Mail in ballot improved method.
Step One, require people who want mail in ballots to send a self addressed stamped envelope to whichever county agency handles vote counting. Include a photocopy of a valid state issued identity card.
Step Two, a mail in ballot with the appropriate information pre printed on it is returned to the voter along with pre addressed and stamped envelope to put the finished ballot in. The voter fills out their ballot and mails it in.
Step Three, the address on the return envelope is a special locked box at the post office in the county seat. It is not able to be picked up until the day of the election. It has a signed trail like a certified letter and can only be picked up by the elected official that heads wherever county agency that deals with elections along with a deputy sheriff who guarantees custody until the box is opened and counted. Any ballots that either the elected official or the sheriff's deputy think are not properly formatted are placed in another locked box.
Step Four, Once counted the ballots are returned to the special box and the Sherrif's Office takes custody of both boxes in case of a recount.
In that way it is highly unlikely that a single point failure can result in tomfoolery. If anyone tempers with the locked box it is a federal crime while it is in the Post Office. Once it leaves there are two people keeping an eye on it. Afterward the Sheriff's office is accountable for the contents. If no challenges are made in a timely manner the contents of both boxes are disposed of in a permanent manner, like burning. Burning is good.
I don’t think it should be made as easy as possible
Voting is a right.
Voting well is a duty. Just as property ownership is a right which comes with the duty to be responsible, so the voting right comes with a duty to exercise some care.
If someone thinks so little of voting that they can't be bothered to walk to a polling station, they don't deserve the right, any more than someone who shoots into the air on July 4th deserves the right to keep and bear arms, or someone who lets his car roll downhill deserves the right to own a car, or someone who lets his house become infested with cockroaches and rats deserves the right to own a house.
Isn’t it amazing how so many other civilized, first world nations are able to hold fair and clean elections without massive mail-in voting, but that’s just a bridge too far in the US?
Voting is not a right.
It is a responsibility and a privilege.
The term 'voting rights' refers to not impeding legal voters from casting their ballots.
All of the voting rights laws in the US were created to stop Democrats from keeping legal voters from casting their ballots.
You are half right. It is better not to think of voting as a right. And it is a responsibility. But it is not a privilege. It is a power.
The power of government in the U.S. is derived from the “consent of the governed,” as put famously in the Declaration of Independence, and it was reinforced by how the Constitution begins with “We the People.”
That means that anytime the government interferes with your ability to vote unjustly, it is usurping your power to choose the government.
As for voting rights laws being aimed at Democrats “keeping legal voters from casting their ballots,” that is true insofar as you are referring to southern Democrats in Jim Crow states. But I would point out two things about that:
1) Every vote against the Voting Rights Act of 1965 in the Senate was cast by Senators from former Confederate states. That includes the two Republicans that voted against it.
2) Those laws are supposed to prevent politicians of any party from unjustly restricting the people from voting. I wonder which party supports the Voting Rights Act now?
Because voting is a right for all of us, we all have the right to insist that voting is done honestly.
If you vote twice or 5 times or 5,000 times, that act more than eliminates the value of my vote. You have disenfranchised me.
So, we all have to accept modest responsibilities to ensure the integrity of the voting system as a whole.
"there is no reason we could not do the same for voting."
The DNC vigorously opposes such things.
A system that identifies everyone and can record their vote?
It's a great way for regimes to go after people who voted for the non-chosen one.
No, your vote is private same as it is now. I just suggesting that rather than a signature or ID we use a PIN to get your ballet.
This whining sockpuppet and three ghastly hags in the photo are the best "Trump supporter" Truth and Faith preachers the MAGAts can come up with? Sad.
Hillary is so much better looking.
My local voting place has my signature on file and every time I show up to vote they pull it out and match it. I drove a truck for many years and every single one of the thousands of loads I delivered had a paper bill of lading that had to be signed by a real live human being. My signature is on my drivers license. You can't get a mortgage or buy a car or transfer a title without a signature. The idea that an actual person affixing their signature to a ballot is somehow obsolete is absurd.
Round here you just give them your name. They then flip through a stack of papers, and when they find the line with your name they draw a line through it. That’s it. When I listened to talk radio there were always callers who claimed that their name (and everyone in their family including their dead grandparents and minor children) was already crossed out, but I never saw it in the news or heard it from anyone I knew. To me that seems like a kind of important thing that would get reported. Unless this lack of evidence is more proof of a coverup.
I filled out a lot of paperwork for my mortgage. I will bet you that if I were to look over the first paper and the last my signature would be quite different if only from fatigue.
Even then my usual signature looks much like my father's, a series of upward spikes from a strait line. I think I've seen EKG sheets that resemble my signature. No one has ever looked at my signature and gotten my name from it.
"No one has ever looked at my signature and gotten my name from it."
Addressing this point Wisconsin mail in ballots now require that the voter print their name along with the signature.
I’m interested in why you would use signatures to deflect on the issue election security or veracity. That is, you don’t seem to be so much concerned that false mismatches lead to denied voting rights, as has traditionally been argued about IDs or PIN codes or others, and instead focus on the distraction that signatures aren’t 100% viable today (as if they were more viable when people, often as not made their mark and people who couldn’t read just voted for the letters next to the picture of Lincoln).
We could do better now, but signatures are all we've got for the last election and rather than investigate, you just preemptively declare it to be too difficult or too much work. Like even the signatures, as poor as they are, are too much security for your tastes. It’s almost like you don’t care at all about the veracity of voting or issues critical faith in democracy and just oppose anything that could make a/the system more true and/or honest based on the greater evil of work you’ve dreamed up.
Ballots were cast, ballots were counted... how can there be fraud in that process?
You have a mountain of ballots. You know there are fraudulent ballots in the mountain, but don't know which ones precisely because the evidence required to determine that was NOT collected (in violation of State election laws).
You count the ballots. you count them again. The total is the same!!!
Except, when you recount fraudulent ballots again you will naturally get the same totals.
What information do you propose to collect as evidence?
"several of them have demanded detailed signature and chain-of-custody audits, all of which have been declined."
"Demanding" something which is not legally required is usually going to be declined. Who's going to pay for it?
For some reason not even Republican-controlled states have mandated these strict "election security" measures. Probably because the benefit does not outweigh the cost.
Honest elections just cost too damn much.
Cost and benefit... Nothing's for free.
As told to sarc earlier this week, the level of evidence he and others require is controlled by the state. Various states and counties have gone after people for trying to get this evidence, including Fulton County who is discussed here. Reason thinks the lack of evidence they legally can’t get proof there is no evidence.
Also the article skips the entirety of the evidence showing mail change of address forms against voters, focusing on only the aspects True the Vote can't legally get evidence for.
Let's say that you guys get the green light to look at the stuff, but don't find what you're looking for.
Where will you look next?
Given that no one has been given the green light to look at the stuff, your question is irrelevant.
In Pennsylvania mail in ballots, by law, were supposed to have been kept with their envelopes. The envelopes were destroyed, making a recount useless.
An absence of evidence is not always evidence of an absence, but at a certain point, it seems reasonable to expect those who have made explosive claims of election fraud to offer something to demonstrate the validity of those theories.
No evidence is proof of a good coverup.
Oddly enough, our Founders anticipated this, too. And why wouldn't they? With the entire budget of the Federal government on the line, that's the biggest motive for theft in the world.
Their solution was our Constitution's one and only guarantee in Article IV Section 4. It guarantees that the Federal government will deliver "a Republican form of government." That means no cheating. The guarantee means they will prove it was legitimate for each State or reject the results. Sadly, Congress no longer pays any heed to our Constitution.
Federal government will deliver “a Republican form of government.” That means no cheating.
Really? I interpret to mean the type of government, as in a representative democracy as opposed to monarchy or straight democracy, not a guarantee of the election process. That's up to the states.
So, you are saying that the Constitutional requirement of a Republican form of government is satisfied by the superficial appearance of such?
If an election is held but Boss Tweed’s men dispose of ballots they dislike and add others to those cast, then that is a Republican form of government, although Boss Tweed makes all the decisions?
Quite a (preposterous) claim.
Yeah, I think that just means that the states can't be monarchies or autocracies.
What evidence is available without allowance of the state?
You've declared a crime and you're still looking for something to prove it happened. At some point you need to give up. Unless it's faith. Then you'll never give up.
And when the state makes it illegal to collect that evidence? That's what he's talking about and what you are refusing to address.
Evidence of what? What happens when it doesn't prove what you want? Where do you go next? Because you won't accept that as proof.
Instead of answering his question, you answer something else. When I point this out, you answer something else.
You say it is evidence. As if there's a smoking gun and they're holding you back from finding it. Quite the dishonest premise to start your argument with. At most it's potential evidence, since lack of evidence of a crime is evidence of nothing.
Insistent that your mendacious and fallacious argument is logical. Jesse has taught you well.
No widespread fraud.
Did you mean apart from the 28 million Biden voters who would have changed their vote had the FBI not lied, or the 22 million mail in voters who admitted committing felony election fraud, or both?
Hint: Those were just two of the ways Demunists cheated. There were thousands more. Any of them changed the outcome, which was determined by just a few thousand votes in a handful of districts.
And yet, all the evidence is apparently unfit for court.
There is no hard evidence that Bill and/or Hillary Clinton had any of the over 100 people who they were involved with that died under odd circumstances actually murdered. There is suspicion, conjecture and inadmissible evidence abounding.
So, knowing that would you cross either of them on anything serious?
I wouldn't trust either Clinton further than I could throw them.
But that has nothing to do with evidence appropriate for adjudication in a court of law.
Yet the statement "widespread" is used. It didn't have to be "widespread".
DLAM was being sarcastic.
Next time—and there will almost certainly be a next time—everyone ought to take a deep breath and approach claims of widespread voter fraud with Widespread Panic!
FTFY.
#Mikey2024!
I told ya so!!!!
The Sad Saga of the Stolen Erections
And lo, it came to pass, that Tim the Enchanter blew upon His Magic Flute, and led me to a secret cave (the Cave of Caerbannog), whereupon mystic runes carved into the very living rock foretold of a day to come.
This sad, sad day has now manifested itself, just as foretold. The Promised One had been delivered to us, and was to fertilize His Queen, Spermy-Stormy Daniels, in an amazing scene; a glaze of Vaseline. Their offspring were to be called Strumpets… Which is a concatenation of Stormy and Trump. They were to number in the millions… About 332 million; enough for all residents of the USA to be issued one Strumpet per each resident, to sit on his or her right shoulder, and make sure that each resident stayed WAAAY Righteous. Each Strumpet was to progressively exert more and more Righteousness Control over each resident, by covering them in Strumpet Vines.
Sad to say, the Bad Bider-Grunch stole Trumpsmas AND Trump’s Erections! The stolen erections prevented the birth of the 332 million Strumpets, in the world’s WORST mass murder (genocide) so far! Even Saint Babbitt could NOT save the Strumpets!
This is the Sad Tale of the Demise of the USA!
You should consider work as a poet. You wouldn't make any money, and nobody would ever be liable to read what you wrote, but at least you'd be too busy to post your grief online here.
Why twat do both?
Trumpty Dumpty, He’s quite off-the-wall,
Trumpty Dumpty won’t stay in His toilet stall
He just goes ahead and takes His shits,
Totally regardless of whereever He sits
Whenever He simply, no way, can sleep,
He Twits us His thoughts, they’re all SOOO deep!
He simply must, He MUST, Twit us His bird,
No matter the words, however absurd!
He sits and snorts His coke with a spoon,
Then He brazenly shoots us His moon!
They say He’ll be impeached by June,
Man, oh man, June cannot come too soon!
So He sits and jiggles His balls,
Then He Twitters upon the walls
“Some come here to sit and think,
Some come here to shit and stink
But I come here to scratch my balls,
And read the writings on the walls
Here I sit, My cheeks a-flexin’
Giving birth to another Texan!
Here I sit, upon the pooper,
Giving birth to another state trooper!
He who writes these lines of wit,
Wraps His Trump in little balls,
He who reads these lines of wit,
Eats those loser’s balls of shit!”
Poets who read their work out loud often have other disturbing habits.
No evidence of fraud, who could imagine that? How many times has something like this happened? Well, I for one will wait for Trump's trial as I am sure he has evidence of the fraud.
Given how measured, sane and sober Trump is as a person, I’m sure he’s just waiting for the right time, and getting his ducks in a row, to reveal the fraud.
See? The "Trump Won" religion is as the Jesus Raises Lazarus scene in the 1927 King of Kings movie with extras Ayn Rand and Frank O'Connor. Evil JYOOZ are shown flogging Him and His Electors deny Him thrice (2 popular and 1 electoral vote) before the cock crows twice. Ah, but "There will be Tribulation!" So when anti-money Splendid Blonde Jesus appears after floggings, he stands with the German Eagle looming over Him, and any who doubt this will Burn in Hell Forever! Earthquakes rumble after His crucifixion on the Swastika--it is Written!
Word of advice Hank. Try to keep it short. You lost me at Lazarus. But it took me here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k8HCUexXUs
So thanks for that.
Jesus Raises Lazarus?!?!? Ha!!! I raise you a "Jesus Raises Lazarus" with a "Bider-Grunch Stole Trumpsmas"!!!
Ask, and ye shall receive! (Dr. Seuss glimpsed the below truths long ago, but he didn’t get it ALL quite right! Maybe his head wasn’t screwed on just right, in the right, right-wing manure?!)
The BAD Bider-Grunch has stolen Trumpsmas!!! Get a grip, people, and focus on the BIGLY problems around here!!! Man the battle stations, full speed ahead, and DAMN the Lizard People AND their mind-controlled vote thieves and erection thieves!!!
How the BAD Bider-Grunch Stole Trumpsmas
‘Twas the night before Trumpsmas,
And all through the lands,
Patriotic feelings were stirring our glands!
The voters ALL firmly fixed to vote RED!
Vote BLUE?!? They’d rather be dead!
Visions of Eternal Redness danced in their heads!
The Great Whitish-Orangish Pumpkin-Father would soon be there!
All one-party Republican states would soon be square!
While every You Down in Youville Liked Trumpsmas a lot...
But the Bider-Grunch, who lived just north of Youville, Did NOT!
The Bider-Grunch hated Trumpsmas! The whole Trumpsmas season!
Now, please don't ask why. No one quite knows the reason.
It could be his head wasn't screwed on just right.
It could be, perhaps, that his shoes were too tight.
But I think that the most likely reason of all,
May have been that his heart was two sizes too small.
Whatever the reason, His heart or his shoes,
He stood there on Trumpsmas Eve, hating the Yous,
Staring down from his cave with a sour, Grunchy frown,
At the warm lighted windows below in their town.
For he knew every You would vote Trump,
THIS, bigly, made the Grunch a real grump!.
"And they're preparing ballots!" he snarled with a sneer,
"Tomorrow is Trumpsmas! It's practically here!"
Then he growled, with his Grunch fingers nervously drumming,
"I MUST find some way to stop Trumpsmas from coming!"
For Tomorrow, he knew, all the You girls and boys,
Would wake bright and early. They'd rush for their toys!
Spermy Daniels, the sexiest of the You girls,
With her hair curled in the most alluring curls,
Would have the BEST and the LOUDEST of toys!
And then! Oh, the sex-noise! Oh, the Noise!
Sex Noise! Sex Noise! Sex Noise!
That's one thing he hated! The NOISE!
SEX NOISE! SEX NOISE! SEX NOISE!
Then the Yous, young and old, would sit down to a vote.
And they'd vote! And they'd vote! And they'd VOTE!
For Lord Trump, they’d VOTE, VOTE, and GLOAT!
They’d trounce and denounce democracy
And firmly establish mobocracy!
And THEN They'd do something He liked least of all!
Every You down in Youville, the tall and the small,
Would stand close together, with Trumpsmas bells ringing.
They'd stand hand-in-hand. And the Yous would start singing!
They'd sing! And they'd sing! And they'd SING!
SING! SING! SING!
And the more the Grunch thought of this You Trumpsmas Sing,
The more the Grunch thought, "I must stop this whole thing!"
"Why, for four years I've put up with it now!"
"I MUST stop this Trumpsmas from coming! But HOW?"
Then he got an idea! An awful idea!
THE GRUNCH GOT A WONDERFUL, AWFUL IDEA!
"I know just what to do!" The Bider-Grunch laughed in his throat.
And he made a quick MAGA hat and a coat.
And he chuckled, and clucked, "What a great Grunchy trick!"
"With this coat and this hat, I look just like Saint Prick!"
"All I need is a Proud Boy..." The Bider-Grunch looked around.
But, since Proud Boys are scarce, there was none to be found.
Did that stop the old Grunch? No! The Grunch simply said,
"If I can't find a Proud Boy, I'll make one instead!"
So he called his cat, Chairman Meow. Then he took some red thread,
And he tied a big MAGA hat on the top of his head.
Then he loaded many bags and sacks, made ‘em all fit somehow,
On a ramshackle sleigh, and he hitched up Chairman Meow..
Then the Grunch said, "Giddyap!" And the sleigh started down,
Toward the homes where the Whos Lay asnooze in their town.
All their windows were dark. Quiet snow filled the air.
All the Whos were all dreaming sweet dreams without care.
When he came to the first little house on the square.
"This is stop number one," the Grunchy fake-Trump hissed,
And he climbed to the roof, empty bags in his fist.
Then he slid down the chimney. To his fat gut, a punch.
But, if Trump could do it, then so could the Grunch.
He got stuck only once, for a moment or two.
Then he stuck his head out of the fireplace flue.
Where the little You ballots all hung in a row.
"These ballots," he grinned, "are the first things to go!"
Then he slithered and slunk, with a smile most unpleasant,
Around the whole room, and he took every vote!
This, surely, would get the You’s goat!
And he stuffed them in bags. Then the Grunch, very nimbly,
Stuffed all the bags, one by one, up the chimney!
Then he slunk to the icebox. He took the Yous' feast!
He took the You-pudding! He took the roast beast!
He cleaned out that icebox as quick as a flash.
Why, that Grunch even took their last can of You-hash!
Then he stuffed all the food up the chimney with glee.
"And NOW!" grinned the Bider-Grunch, "I will stuff up the tree!"
And the Bider-Grunch grabbed the tree, and he started to shove,
When he heard a small sound like the coo of a dove.
He turned around fast, and he saw a small You!
Little Candy-Lou You, who was not more than two.
The Grunch had been caught by this tiny You daughter,
Who'd got out of bed for a cup of cold water.
She stared at the Grunch and said, "Lord Trump, why,”
"Why are you taking our Trumpsmas tree? WHY?"
But, you know, that old Grunch was so smart and so slick,
He thought up a lie, and he thought it up quick!
"Why, my sweet little tot," the fake Lord Trump lied,
"There's a light on this tree that won't light on one side."
"So I'm taking it home to my workshop, my dear."
"I'll fix it up there. Then I'll bring it back here."
And his fib fooled the child. Then he patted her head,
And he got her a drink and he sent her to bed.
And when Candy Lou You went to bed with her cup,
He went to the chimney and stuffed the tree up!
Then the last thing he took Was the log for their fire!
Then he went up the chimney, himself, the old liar.
On their walls he left nothing but hooks and some wire.
And the one speck of food That he left in the house,
Was a crumb that was even too small for a mouse.
Then He did the same thing To the other Yous' houses
Leaving crumbs much too small For the other Yous' mouses!
It was quarter past dawn... All the Yous, still a-bed,
All the Yous, still asnooze When he packed up his sled,
Packed it up with all of their ballots… ALL of their votes!
THIS, the fake Lord Trump grumped, will get ALL of their goats!
Three thousand feet up! Up the side of Mt. Frumpit,
He rode with his load to the tiptop to dump it!
"Pooh-Pooh to the Yous!" he was Grunchishly humming.
"They're finding out now that no Trumpsmas is coming!"
"They're just waking up! I know just what they'll do!"
"Their mouths will hang open a minute or two,
Then the Yous down in Youville will all cry Boo-Hoo!"
"That's a noise," grinned the Bider-Grunch, "That I simply MUST hear!"
So he paused. And the Bider-Grunch put his hand to his ear.
And he did hear a sound rising over the snow.
It started in low. Then it started to grow.
But the sound wasn't sad! Why, this sound sounded merry!
It couldn't be so! But it WAS merry! VERY!
He stared down at Youville! The Grunch popped his eyes!
Then he shook! What he saw was a shocking surprise!
Every You down in Youville, the tall and the small,
Was singing! Without any Trump-votes at all!
He HADN'T stopped Trumpsmas from coming! IT CAME!
Somehow or other, it came just the same!
And the Grunch, with his Grunch-feet ice-cold in the snow,
Stood puzzling and puzzling: "How could it be so?"
The Grunch-light came on! “Yes! Now I know!
The Yous down in Youville, they’re really quite slow!
Their erection’s been stolen, but the whole Trumpsmas glow,
Overwhelms EVERYTHING, even democracy!
They’ll lie bigly, and impose mobocracy!”
So the Bider-Grunch whipped out his cell phone,
Called the Lizard People, who send out a drone,
Mind-controlled them ALL, as is Lizard habit,
Now NO ONE could save them, not even Saint Babbitt!
So THAT’s the Sad Story of the BAD Bider-Grunch,
Who stole Trumpsmas, the erections, AND your lunch!
81M people voting for Biden certainly seems quite plausible.
Most popular President in American history.
NEVER would have guessed that Obama was a drag on the Obama/Biden ticket.
Obama wasn't a drag on the ticket. Opposition to Trump was a mighty tail wind.
And yet exit polls showed that Trump received higher proportions of votes from traditionally Dem constituencies -- working class voters and African Americans -- than other recent GOP candidates.
So, Trump was hated so much that traditional Dems voted for him in greater numbers?
A very large proportion of those 81 million voters were voting *against Trump*. You know, like how it was the anti-Hillary voters which put Trump over the top in 2016.
The Post Most: Trump N.Y. hush money trial set for March; Ga. judge weighs Willis eligibility
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/02/15/trump-georgia-fani-willis-hearing-new-york-hush-money/?wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3cc0ec4%2F65ce476cb0c7630de1405061%2F65a7caaefaddfc25cae479d1%2F8%2F53%2F65ce476cb0c7630de1405061
Link may be screwed up and-or paywalled, butt there shit is, for twat shit is worth...
Twat I want to know is, who is this "Willis" person? I PATENTED, COPYRIGHTED, TRADE-MARKED, and ALL sorts of shit (guarded and protected shit), my stage name at Chippendales, which is "Willy-Willy Whippin' Free"!!! If this "Willis" person is muscling in on MY territory, there will be PAIN!! SOOO much pain, "Willis" can not IMAGINE!!!
Where are Trump’s Deranged Supporters? I thought this was then they would trot out all of their proof.
And he coined it!
They are self-identifying.
Only to those with a severe case of TDS, sarc.
"A subsequent investigation by the state board found that those claims were unfounded:..."
It did no such thing. They could not possibly do so for precisely the same reason the State cannot possibly EVER "prove" the outcome was legitimate - the nature of the election theft was to insure that Democrats knew that mail in ballots would not be inspected. They were not.
The Maricopa video from last year shows exactly how they did it. Video showed poll workers in a Democrat stronghold who were SUPPOSED to be verifying signatures. First they demonstrated how the system worked - the user would be required to pull up the next ballot, then navigate to the next page to actually see the signatures to compare. To do that takes about 4 seconds minimum - the workers averaged one "verification" every 2.x seconds - absolute proof they never once checked a signature.
We now have more proof of crime for the 2020 election than for any other crime in American history. 34% of Biden voters (~28 million) polled stated categorically that had the FBI not LIED about the Hunter laptop, they would have changed their vote (Trump, abstain, 3rd party). Assuming those broke roughly 50/50, that would have been ~90 million votes for Trump / 53 million for Biden in the biggest blowout in modern times. That is just ONE of the thousands of acts of fraud which occurred.
As for the mail in votes, just a few thousand votes nationwide determined the election outcome - meanwhile, over 21% of all mail in voters (~22 million) polled acknowledged some form of election fraud (voting in the wrong district or State; voting "for" a family member; etc.). Again, WELL over the threshhold needed to change the outcome.
A sane person might still ask by how much the fraud changed the outcome; no sane person can still say the election was legitimate.
All of those who question MEEEEE are insane, yes!!! This worked VERY well for the Soviet Union!
All of those who disagree with MEEEE are… Mentally ILL!!! YES, this! Good authoritarians KNOW this already!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union
All of the GOOD totalitarians KNOW that those who oppose totalitarianism are mentally ill, for sure!!!
What lewser would say ANY of the looter Kleptocrcy elections are legitimate? But "the" Law says the law says whatever 5 of 9 Kleptocracy-appointed Jurists For Life say it says. I have seen Texas newsreaders pretend libertarian candidates never existed, splitting as much as 20% of the vote--like Solomon, bisecting a 14A "person born" with a sword--and handing half to the Red and half to the Blue. "The" law says Orange Hitler got knockdowns from both popular votes and one electoral college vote--that thing that gave Tonie Nathan and John Hospers Bronze Medals in 1973. It also got women's individual rights into the ROE decision Trumpanzees defecate upon after losing 3 of 4 bouts. Cry for me, Argentina!
The laptop poll was very poorly done and came to illogical conclusions, and did not say what you claim.
https://www.wral.com/story/fact-check-does-polling-show-the-hunter-biden-laptop-story-would-ve-changed-the-2020-election/20744368/
The poll of mail in voters did not find what you claimed:
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/partner_surveys/one_in_five_mail_in_voters_admit_they_cheated_in_2020_election
The FBI didn't say anything about the laptop story at that time, so it's hard to see how you could characterize their [lack of] comment as a "lie".
Even Mark Zuckerberg had come out and said that the FBI notified him (and other tech platforms) that they heard chatter that there was going to be some "Russian propaganda" coming about that would be used to try to interfere in the election. This was an attempt to have the social media and tech platforms quash the Hunter Biden laptop story, as the FBI knew about the laptop and its veracity, as they'd had it in their custody at the time. They played on the fears of more "Russian election interference" to discredit the laptop story that they knew was forthcoming. It was Zuckerberg's defense as to why Facebook suppressed the story and didn't even allow anyone to link to it, even in private messages.
The fact you don't even know about this whole aspect of the story is indicative of you getting your news only from "approved" sources.
The FBI had had the laptop for about a year and knew that it was genuine. They did not say this, allowing people to think that there was doubt about it. That is what is known as a "lie."
If an FBI official had omitted that information from an answer in court, it would have been perjury for failing to tell "the whole truth."
At this point you have to be an idiot to not realize the democrats are cooking the books. Much of it is not technically "fraud", but it serves the same Master. Where there is smoke there is fire.
You misspelled "troof".
Butt I (along with ALL the rest of My Tribe!!!) speak the TROOF!!! ALL who disagree with MEEEE and the wolf-pack-tribe of MINE are WRONG, because TROOF-TROOF-TROOF-ARF-ARF-ARF-HOWL-HOWL-HOWL-BARK-BARK-BARK-WA-WOOOO-WA-WOOOO-WA-WOOOOooOOOoooOOOO!!!! If THAT logic does SNOT persuade you, I suppose that the dog-pile and I will have to BITE the enema to death!!! THAT will teach them ALL of our logic, data, and TROOF-fullness!!!
Much of it is not technically “fraud”, but it serves the same Master. Where there is smoke there is fire.
Right. Technically, the Steele Dossier had precisely dick to do with changing votes or vote counts and, thus was not "voting fraud", but was sure as fuck was a fraud perpetrated to influence an election.
The election was stolen all right, and the proof is in the pudding. Actual democracies only allow eligible citizens to vote. Actual democracies only allow in-person voting with only medical excuses as an exception. Actual democracies require photo ID verification to ensure that only the eligible can vote. And actual democracies prohibit ballot harvesting, 3rd party handling of ballots, and all the other shenanigans that are prevalent in blue and some purple states in the US. In additional to all that, paper ballots and hand-counting are the preferred method of actual democracies, as opposed to voting machines with secret source codes and network connections. So unfortunately, we don't really have legitimate elections in the US.
Now the 2020 was even worse than the usual American election mainly because the mail-in-ballot scheme. Launching the biggest propaganda campaign in history against one of the candidates didn't help on our democratic image either. Lastly, the illegal collusion of certain alphabet agencies and the entrenched bureaucracy with The Party sealed the deal on the verdict: the election was stolen, period.
In other words, no true Scotsman...
In other words, you're an ActBlue shill.
Many "actual democracies" outside the US allow absentee or remote voting. I lived in one for years. My current country even allows citizens to vote by proxy--you must love that one!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/12/04/trumps-assertion-that-only-two-european-nations-allow-mail-in-voting/
Voter fraud is evidently so rare, many democracies try to encourage voting by making it more convenient, rather than less convenient (throwing red meat to the base), to increase voter participation.
And now the good old "let's take Trump literally, as opposed to seriously" move with a pinch of WaPo? Funny.
Here's the thing: there's absentee voting and then there's unsolicited, no-questions-asked, no-chain-of-custody mail-on-ballot voting. Nobody have any issue with absentee voting, provided there's ample reason for doing it (e.g. long-term illness, disability) and provided it is arranged in a secure and transparent fashion. Yet everybody have problem with the latter which is the reason you will not find those in actual democracies. Certainly not the unsolicited types, certainly not those based on outdated data, certainly not without signature verification, etc... which is to say, certainly not the way it was handled in 2020.
But let's rephrase the whole thing: in an actual democracy, eligible citizens should only be able to vote in-person, provided they are physically able to, using photo ID verification. Eligibility is based on citizenship, age, criminal history and a successful registration prior to the elections. Absentee voting may only be allowed in exceptional cases, mainly for health related issues ("I had to stay at work" or "the dog was sick" isn't a valid excuse).
No true libertarian.
As in no true libertarian should trust anything a government claims is 100% anything.
You're full of shit.
If I was full of shit then you'd be able to point out why. But you didn't because you couldn't because what I wrote is reasonable and true.
But then, you are not here to be truthful or to argue in good faith...
Nope, but I will point it out now.
In actual democracies the right to vote is fundamental. Intelligent people know that in practice the more stringent the voting process and requirements, the more likely it is that it will result in legitimate voters being unable to vote, while the less stringent, the more likely that some illegitimate voting will take place. In actual democracies, intelligent people try to balance the two, and preferring that legitimate voters do get to vote even if it's at the expense of some illegitimate voting.
In actual democracies, when intelligent people find that the amount of fraud is low, even where voting requirements are more on the lax side - because the cost simply isn't worth it - they will not ask for or attempt to impose stringent voting rules on the pretence or pretext that it's somehow more democratic. In practice, people who want far more stringent rules, even when the evidence is that fraud is rare, are actually anti-democratic cunts who are full of shit.
Ah, so you're basically pushing the "voter ID is racism" narrative... as expected from an ActBlue shill.
Then you're trying to gaslight the reader by claiming that every single actual democracy is worse than the US. You imply that no other actual democracy is as LESS stringent than US blue states and some US purple states. Which means that in your eyes those are all racist anti-democratic countries infringing upon their respective populations' fundamental right to vote. Which of course, is utter nonsense and baloney... which isn't at all surprising coming from you, a shill.
But let's simplify the argument here. Let's say I want all US states to imitate Switzerland from now on by copying its voting process. As per your bogus shilling, we would become somehow less or worse by adopting their system. Needless to say, no reasonable person would ever claim that copying Switzerland (in pretty much any area) could be a bad thing. We could of course copy any other Western European country e.g. Denmark, or any other Scandinavian country, or we could as well copy Israel too. You see, the common theme among all these actual democracies is that their voting process is decent. Their process is prompt, secure, transparent and efficient, and as a result, those citizens have no reason to doubt their election results.
Ah, so you’re basically pushing the “voter ID is racism” narrative… as expected from an ActBlue shill.
“The guilty flee when no man pursueth”
I never mentioned race or voter ID. My argument is utterly independent of any side and is simply based on logic. The more stringent the rules, the less fraud but the more legitimate voters are stopped from voting; the more lax, the more fraud, but the fewer legitimate voters are stopped from voting.
What is the acceptable balance? Why don’t you put a number on it? If a policy stops 10 fraudulent voters, but blocks 100 legitimate voters from voting, do you adopt the policy? What’s the right ratio?
In an actual democracy, at the very least, you don’t want your anti-voter-fraud policy to stop more legitimate voters than it stops fraudulent voters, right?
BTW do you actually have an estimate for the total number of illegitimate voters in 2020? Because until you can say how much of the vote is illegitimate – which allows us to gauge the magnitude of the problem, we can’t know what steps we should take to stop it.
I was far less skeptical than I am now before they rolled out all the Office of the President-Elect banners. It may be on the up and up and that was just used to make us question results, but it sure made it look fishy. I've never before had to have someone parade around telling me who the new presdent was going to be.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Emphasis added] Are you shitting me? They know that how? Were the people in the video asked and pinky swore?
"A subsequent investigation by the state board found..."
Just like investigations of police misdeeds tend to find absolutely nothing wrong. I wonder how that happened.
So, you want such investigations to be conducted by independent third parties. Sure, why not. You're paying for it.
Some of those on video had more than a dozen ballots....
Catholic families.
Some of them made multiple stops.
Well, weren't they helpful folks.
That would have been nice evidence to show.
Imagine telling a crime victim or their family that they need to do the detective's job without the associated tools or authority while the detective actively runs interference for the criminal. That is what is being required here.
First there has to be evidence that a crime has been committed, so no that is NOT "what is being required here."
"Evidence of a crime", Democrats. That's a good one.
Imagine requiring everyone to submit evidence that they’ve been appropriately stolen from every Apr. 15th, to keep copies for their records in case enough wasn’t stolen, and *then* asking for evidence of a crime like “Innocent until proven guilty.” applies to The State.
More like a victim of an alien abduction getting angry that no one can find any evidence, but they know it's true.
"Like all the lies about [your conspiracy theory here], their fabricated claims of [conspiracy] have been repeatedly debunked."
I firmly debunk ALL of my debunkers; THEY are now all debunked!!! ALL of the evidence indubitably points towards them being FAR more bunkers than I am!!! 97.52% of those from MY Team agree with MEEEEEE, so how can ANY sane person debate this, any more?!?!
A couple conspiracy theories panned out, which means they're all true. That's proof that I never took a logic class, because if I had I'd know that when something is true for a couple things, that means it's true for all things.
You mean all those stories where the state denied something was happening? Like the state denying something here?
Yes, that kind of logic. Where you claim that because some conspiracy theory was proven right with evidence, that others are right without evidence. According to what you've said (if I'm wrong please say so), me calling that a fallacy is proof that I’ve never taken a class in logic.
Trump lost GA by 12,000 votes. Hand recount (without a signature verification audit) changed the recorded vote of over 4,700 ballots. '...Floyd County officials discovered about 2,400 ballots that election workers neglected to rescan after a scanner failed and results could not be retrieved from memory cards. Officials attributed the error to “gross incompetence” ...' Up to 20% polled admit to engaging in some kind of voter fraud. If our current election procedures were adapted to criminal trials, all convictions would be tossed due to an impossibility of ever proving a fair trial had taken place.
They even faked the maps used in the film.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/19/even-geolocation-maps-2000-mules-are-misleading/
In order for Biden to have stolen the 2020 election, it would have taken hundreds, if not more officials at the federal, state, and local level. Some of them very Republican. Then they would have had to cover it up so well that an army of very partisan Republicans have been unable to find evidence of this. These are the same governments that in almost all other areas they are borderline incompetent, yet magically they pulled this off.
In addition Trump would have had to pull off a win with every indicator going against him. In the much closer 2016 election, the final probability was 66% Clinton win and 33% change Trump win, and that was considered to be an upset.
That is what MAGAs believe.
Show me the audits.
Go find them yourself. Anything I post you would claim I faked it.
Show me the law which requires such audits.
If you knew anything about elections you would know that a great number of checks are done. Working at the polling place we record the numbers each hour. Number of ballets handed out and number run through tabulator. At the end of the day the ballot numbers must match the tabulator number. Machines are checked with hand counts. Polling books can also be checked to see the number of voters at a site. There are huge amounts of meta data to support the count.
First you demand some audit that you know didn't happen. Then you refuse to accept any other evidence except what you demanded. When your impossible request is not granted, you sit back and claim that if you weren't obstructed you'd have found the smoking gun. Hopefully your followers are emotionally invested and don't engage their brains.
The dem site never does anything wrong crew is sure put in force today. But remember you dont have a tribe. Lol.
Drink your lunch?
It only took 40,000 votes in 3 states.
Yes, but think of how hard it would be to get those 40,000 votes. We have a very diversified election system. You would need to have people in three states across several cities in each state and across polling places in each of the cities. Don't tell me the number of votes, tell me the number of people you would need to involve.
Most states have a few high population counties. You take money from donors all around the nation and use it to get your party in control of those counties. Then it's a simple matter of ignoring anything that looks crooked. It's not rocket science.
I would note here that you still have not given a number of people necessary. I would suggest that number would have to be sizable and really unable to be concealed.
Let's do a small math exercise. If you had a group of people 400 people and each could smuggle in 100 votes, you could get to 40K votes. Each of the 400 people would have to do a perfect job in smuggling in the votes. What is the likely hood of that happening? Each of the 400 would have to be silent about the conspiracy. Again, what is the likelihood of that happening? If you took a very simple statics failure rate of 2SD you would predict a failure rate for 2000 votes. Would no one notice 2000 mistakes?
You are desperate to back up the claim that the election was without any fraud.
If your party has control of the Auditor (an elected official at the county level and in charge of elections in my state), a couple of judges and the sheriff that's all you really need. All they need to do is turn a blind eye to the efforts of a group of paid election fraudsters.
Look how many the Democrats can get to show up for a riot with looting and burning and manage to keep them from being prosecuted for their misdeads. You think they can't motivate a similar amount to steal electiins in three or four counties in a few key states?
I am not desperate because I have facts on my side. In Georgia the person in charge of the vote was the Secretary of State who was Republican and who voted for Trump. In Wisconsin, the people in charge are the Election Commission which has members appointed by both parties.
Looks like you're stuffed, then. If they did it before without so much as an evidentiary trace, why wouldn't they just do it again?
You'd have to be a fool to vote if you think they will just steal the election again!
Assuming you knew which areas to target, based on notoriously bad polling. Georgia’s not a typical swing state. Realistically, to defraud the necessary few districts, you’ll need to target many.
Now if you hack by election workers using fake ballots or changing results, you need to infiltrate the state’s election officials and judiciary to block the evidence of fake ballots being revealed during any recounts or investigations. You need a regime that can cover up that more ballots were counted than were sent out or that the count results don’t match the paper ballots.
If you’re going to rely on ballot harvesting and insecure mail in ballots, you have to get 1000’s of ballots that were sent to registered voters, without any of those registered voters noticing they didn’t get their ballot, and vote for them. Or, pay registered voters to vote the way you want, again without anyone coming forward.
Now just do that, in exactly the right districts, keep it covered up so that no one can see the evidence (except astute Trump supporters that know the evidence is there even though they can’t find it) for 3 years and counting, and you have stolen an election…easy peasy.
Target the high population centers, usually a handful of counties, spend donations from across the country on a handful of county races and you get your people in place easily. This isn't rocket surgery. Fill a few busses with election stealers and drop them off in those counties. With baskets of prepared ballots it's not hard to pull of. It just takes money and loyal people.
Spoken like an individual with no knowledge of how election are actually run. Take a minute and reread Quicktown B's third paragraph and then explain how those buses of people get the prepared ballots.
Well we know numerous people in the United States government (including the then president) were spying on Trump in 2016. Is it really so hard to believe that they'd cheat in 2020?
Not if leaps of logic are your speciality, no.
Or 51 Intel agents actively lying and telling big tech to lie in order to swing the election to Biden.
This must be where you pretend the letter did not contain the following:
"We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not have
evidence of Russian involvement -- just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case."
So the point of the letter was not to discredit the laptop story?
Lol the most secure and fair election in history!. THEY TOLD US SO.
No, it's mainly because you can't produce any credible evidence of the "widespread fraud" you're convinced occurred.
All you gots are "feelz".
no, ITL is right "most secure and fair election in history" was and is the line.
>> can’t produce any credible evidence of the “widespread fraud” can also be true.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/02/breaking-big-former-cisa-chief-chris-krebs-lied/
They being people in the Trump administration. Like AG Bill Barr, the cyber security head, Trumps campaign, his family. But who are they compared to Guliani, Lindal, Flynn, and Powel.
AG Barr also thinks Jeffery Epstein killed himself. Really. No shit. He actually said that out loud.
I don't disagree that Epstein killed himself. Looking at what he was facing it likely was his best alternative. The real question is, was the system greased to give him the opportunity to kill himself. He should have been watched, but maybe Epstein or others paid to have observers look the other way.
The real question is, was the system greased to give him the opportunity to kill himself.
Funny that you say "You don't know how the system works." to voting above and then say this here.
You wouldn't know what "The real question is" unless you were so gaga over Barr it would make a bath house full of gay dudes avert their eyes.
Notwithstanding all of the jokes about hanging chads in the 2000 election there was a widely watched attempt to verify the vote. On TV for days. At least there was a pretense on the part of government and media to convince the public that the election was legitimate. 20 years later anybody who dared to question the result was told to shut the fuck up. Eric likes it better this way.
Yes, after losing 60+ court cases, it probably is time to STFU.
None of those cases were "lost". Those bringing them were denied "standing". Big difference. Some of those "denials" used some very convoluted reasoning.
Be honest: you don't even know what "standing" means, do you?
Do you? Because you just claimed the court cases were "lost" without any differentiation between being rejected for lack of standing and losing on the merits.
bro, focus ...
Remember the lesson of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"?
With Giuliani, Powell and True the Vote making claims they couldn't prove, they have given a free cheat to the Democrats. If there is massive fraud in the next election, who would believe it?
Even though you can expect Trump to lose by a huge margin, you'll never know for sure if it was legitimate?
Paraphrasing Shakespeare:
"Thrice I offered her the crown and thrice she has denied it"
As with Caesar, fourth time's the charm for Michelle Obama, who will surpass Woodrow Wilson as the worst president ever.
Any Trump loss is "illegitimate".
Clearly that is the mark for a fair election that so many people are missing. Any fair election Trump wins.
This is EXACTLY correct!!!
Der TrumpfenFuhrer ***IS*** responsible for agitating for democracy to be replaced by mobocracy!
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/24/politics/trump-election-warnings-leaving-office/index.html
A list of the times Trump has said he won’t accept the election results or leave office if he loses.
Essential heart and core of the LIE by Trump: “ANY election results not confirming MEEE as Your Emperor, MUST be fraudulent!”
September 13 rally: “The Democrats are trying to rig this election because that’s the only way they’re going to win,” he said.
Trump’s constant re-telling and supporting the Big Lie (any election not electing Trump is “stolen”) set up the environment for this (insurrection riot) to happen. He shares the blame. Boys will be boys? Insurrectionists will be insurrectionists, trumpanzees gone apeshit will be trumpanzees gone apeshit, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Trump was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?
It really should immediately make us think of Krystallnacht. Hitler and the NAZIs set up for this by constantly blaming Jews for all things bad. Jew-haters will be Jew-haters, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Hitler was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?
https://www.salon.com/2021/04/11/trumps-big-lie-and-hitlers-is-this-how-americas-slide-into-totalitarianism-begins/
Trump's Big Lie and Hitler's: Is this how America's slide into totalitarianism begins?
The above is mostly strictly factual, with very little editorializing. When I post it, the FACTS never get refuted… I only get called names. But what do you expect from morally, ethically, spiritually, and intellectually bankrupt Trumpturds?
Totalitarians want to turn GOP into GOD (Grand Old Dicktatorshit).
The takeaway is the Eric Boehm imagines he can address perpetrators of the terror attack on the electoral college count or the Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs like rational people. Here's hoping he does not find cross-burners on his lawn. Remember that good-looking singer who thinks women should have rights? Trumpanzees declared her a Satanist witch a couple days ago and already brainwashees are shooting women at football parades. Classy!
the pro-pal boygirl dreamer illegal who was caught-and-released by O and then shot up a church 13 years later voted in Harris County, Texas in the 2020 election.
For Trump?
probably at least one of the times. hedge
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Of course the issue is that the true believers know in their hearts that there was fraud so they will continue to believe that the election was stolen, the absence of evidence in every specific instance being insufficient to make a difference to their belief. If your Bayesian prior is 1, basically, no amount of evidence can move it from 1.
I am sure that all the usual suspects who cried fraud here believed True the Vote's claim, but will not adjust their belief when the claim is busted.
There's video of people literally stuffing ballots into drop boxes. There's video of the poll watchers being told counting would stop and once they left counting continued. There's video of signature checkers not checking signatures. What else do you want?
There's multiple examples of elections rescinded the last few years on the same basis of 2020 election fraud claims. But 2020 was the cleanest one ever.
There’s video of people literally stuffing ballots into drop boxes. There’s video of the poll watchers being told counting would stop and once they left counting continued. There’s video of signature checkers not checking signatures. What else do you want?
People not to make assumptions about what they think they're seeeing because they're too fucking ignorant about election processes, and to note that every single trier and finder of fact when issues were raised in court - including those appointed by Trump - did not find this evidence.
Let me give you a single example. Some cretin, call him, AssJiz, sees what to him looks like a suitcase being pulled out from under a table and ballots removed from it. AssJiz, not understanding shit, thinks that this is fraud, and loudly proclaims it so. What AssJiz doesn't know is that it's not a suspicious suitcase but a purpose-built case which is there to store ballots before counting and that no fraud has taken place. Someone explains this to AssJiz, who nonetheless screaches, "I dun knows what I seed!" and still insists that there's fraud.
Do you really think that with all this supposed evidence of fraud, there couldn't be found one Trump-appointed judge to say, yup?
Are you even aware that Trump's own attorneys denied they were claiming fraud in court? Teh ignorance.
Nailed it.
I know, right? It's so frustrating how these people can't produce smoking gun evidence of the fraud, but continue to believe it anyway. What kind of stupid person would do that?
Also: Russia hacked our election in 2016. They stole the victory from Hillary. It was her turn!
It is sad that the leftists who still pretend to be libertarians though their mask rots on the ground in the sewage they spew think this helps or means anything.
You, the ruination of Reason, have neglected every corroboration, every ounce of proof in favor of spreading your vile masters propaganda.
Why do you think, at this late hour, that more of this garbage will have any effect that will stave off the coming horrors you've wrought?
You support the false president, his handlers and manipulators, so you will reap what you've sown.
This is what happens when the loons who used to walk the streets with sandwich boards shouting "the end is nigh" (when not talking to themselves loudly) get internet access.
>> helps or means anything.
this. +100 subscribe to substack, Eric.
https://www.courthousenews.com/federal-trial-over-dominion-voting-machine-security-kicks-off-in-georgia/
Dominion voting machines still on trial in Georgia.
During the trial, the voter coalition intends to rely largely on evidence gathered from University of Michigan computer scientist J. Alex Halderman, one of their expert witnesses. The court allowed Halderman to access the voting machines, in which he produced a report indicating that the feasibility of a cyberattack could cause specific votes cast to be swapped or deleted, including through access to and alteration of the QR code.
I am old enough to remember the Diebold conspiracy theory.
That was (D)ifferent.
Yes the same people returning to the same drop box with 40 ballots numerous times are all helping out their family. They have HUGE families in George.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/02/breaking-big-former-cisa-chief-chris-krebs-lied/
That's twat the Lizard People told me, too!!! AND the Amphibian People ass well!!! NO sane person can now deny ANY of this!!!
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/gateway-pundit
Rated far right! Twat an UDDER surprise!!!
Don't forget what happened in Connecticut late last year.
https://truethevote.org/news/true-the-vote-responds-to-fake-news-attacks
"The claim that there is insufficient support for True the Vote’s allegation of widespread abuse of then-nascent ballot drop box voting during the 2020 General Election stems from a fundamental misunderstanding amongst members of the media.
The evidence True the Vote made available to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation shortly after the 2020 General Election cannot be understood to be like records stored somewhere. It consisted of massive quantities of electronic data that could only be appreciated and understood when you had multiple servers processing it and visually displaying how the information intersected in real-time. This is called geospatial analysis.
True the Vote provided this information to the FBI, which rendered it available to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation at the time. The GBI consequently has ready access to the summaries and underlying data, and could reconstruct it, but it declines to do that. It is in that sense that there is nothing more for True the Vote to provide that it has not already provided to the GBI.”
Election officials are deeply personally invested in the systems that they have designed. They have a built in conflict of interest. Asking them to participate in an investigation that could reveal that fraud took place is anathema to them. As we have seen they will fight any attempt to investigate their processes.
The evidence True the Vote made available to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation shortly after the 2020 General Election cannot be understood to be like records stored somewhere. It consisted of massive quantities of electronic data that could only be appreciated and understood when you had multiple servers processing it and visually displaying how the information intersected in real-time. This is called geospatial analysis.
If this doesn’t trigger your bullshit detector, you have my sympathy. It's only evident when it's "intersecting in real time." Uh huh. That's the ticket.
If you have a group of fraudsters moving from polling place to polling place each one with a list of names and polling places for those names going in and voting early in the day using voter information on people who haven't voted for the last several elections you can create a lot of fraudulent votes.
You would have to be watching video footage from the polling places to see that group showing up at each polling place in sequence on the raw footage for it to be evidence. If you watch one video, then the next, then the next you won't necessarily notice the same batch of people. But if you watch the videos on multiple screens then you can start to notice the pattern and have proof of extra votes being cast thus proving there was planned fraud.
If the group simply provided a video compilation of those people at each polling site it wouldn't be evidence because it isn't raw footage. It has been tampered with.
That's why requiring state issued ID is so important. The costs to fabricate thousands of state ID for your loyal cheaters would make it far more difficult to cheat in that manner.
I'm sorry.
The evidence you suggested above, could easily be summarized and presented to the judge. The simplest mind can understand this. Instead they told the court they had no evidence to share and bullshitted thier supporters that they have evidence, but it's too complicated to share.
This is like True the Vote winking to their supporters.
The ultimate irony of this story is that in the last 2 election cycles 3 elections have been over turned on the exact same evidence of true the vote and D'Souza.
Yet wr are forced to believe the 2020 cleanest election ever narrative from the dem defending idiots above lol.
When will Reason reconcile the evidence they require is held by the state? And the state threatening groups looking into it with criminal charges? Fani Willis for looking at votes. Arizona for looking at signatures.
Yes the election records are held by the state. Because the state runs elections.
In this country, however, if you want access to records which you believe is associated with a crime, you first have to have some *factual basis* to justify access to that evidence. Then you present your case to a court, which then decides whether or not to grant access.
The alternative, sifting through all the records trying to find a crime, is called 'a fishing expedition' and are frowned upon.
So, first start with your factual basis that you think a crime has been committed. If you *really think* that a conspiracy of people altered the vote count in some way to throw the election, then you have to have evidence of this conspiracy at work.
The election will not be fair and secure unless every Reason commenter is granted access to personally hand count every single ballot and throw out any ballot that he/she thinks is invalid.
All these ' problems ' disappear with sortition/lottery. No need for double blind signature audits in triplicate defending the integrity of a vote for the Turd Sandwich
I was at work one election day. The guy in the cubicle next to me was also an D alderman in an Illinois city just across the river. All morning he was on the phone calling people about voting. Many of the conversations sure appeared like he was begging people to cast illegal ballots. Explaining to Iowans how to vote in Illinois, etc.
Dinesh is improving — his latest electoral shenanigans didn't even earn a jail sentence.
He got in trouble for donating money to a friend. Why wasn't zuck investigated? Oh he's (d) ifferent
Are you trying for the same ad hominem fallacy that Cenk did when he debated Dinesh? Why should we listen to anything you say, Dinesh? You're a felon who violated a campaign finance law.
https://theleadingreport.com/2020-georgia-fraud-exposed/?amp=1
There is literally tons of evidence. In fact it's so overwhelming it's partly why there isn't just a single-spot of evidence.
But we'll just start with E.O. election law changes. Is that election fraud just a lie? 'no evidence'? Doesn't seem anyone wants to try and defeat that as "just some wild claim". The blatant ignorance of the evidence is outstanding.
The compulsive ignorance about the US Constitution (Supreme Law of the Land) follows and topped off by a new Nazi-Regime having national control that champions the 'armed-theft' of their neighbors (criminals). Yeah; this nation is literally swirling down a toilet because ignorance of broken laws has become so normalized in D.C.
The proof in the pudding to me is the early days of the election fraud wolf-crying. Remember? Within 24 hours of the result, the Trump supporters were out there with their "proof" of fraud, which was mindlessly stupid, my personal favorite being from then Pennsylvania State Senator Doug Mastriano, who informed the world that there had been more mail-in ballots counted than had been sent out. Turned out he was using the number of ballots that had been sent out in the primary, and the number that had been returned in the general. There was an endless parade of this nonsense, like the truck full of ballots story and of course the suitcase of ballots that cost Giuliani a $148 million verdict.
Each story would come out, get debunked, and the Trumpers would move on to the next claim. But instead of any of them being supported by evidence, they'd just become harder to debunk because the evidence was harder to obtain or evaluate. This is not the progression one would expect with actual election fraud; this is the progression one would expect as liars refine their lies.
Trump made comments after the 2012 election that Obamas win was fraud. After his loss in the Iowa caucus in 2016 he claimed that Cruz stole the election. And prior to the 2016 election he made the same statements regards Hillary Clinton. And then finally, prior to the 2020 election he made several comments that if he did not win, the election was rigged.
I often think that a large part of the problem is that Trump is ultimately an inseure narcissist, protecting his fragile self-image. He has successfully enlisted thousands into that cause. What a way to run a country.
Exactly right.
The commentator Boehm makes a comment that pretty much both sums up and enables some of the more ridiculous comments to the thread.
He quotes Mike Hassinger, a spokesman for Raffensperger: "Like all the lies about Georgia's 2020 election, their [True the Vote] fabricated claims of ballot harvesting have been repeatedly debunked."
And Mr Boehms response? "An absence of evidence is not always evidence of an absence, but at a certain point, it seems reasonable to expect those who have made explosive claims of election fraud to offer something to demonstrate the validity of those theories." The first sentence is essentially "guilty unless proven innocent". And the second is generate something, anything to justify the accusation.
A common justification in this fever dream is that no Democrat would ever win a national election. Therefore any election win for a Democrat means fraud. And it goes without say of course that no Republican would ever commit fraud to win an election.
A common justification in this fever dream is that no Democrat would ever win a national election. Therefore any election win for a Democrat means fraud. And it goes without say of course that no Republican would ever commit fraud to win an election.
Exactly. As in, this is literally the case. With the small caveat, of course, that Republicans would also cheat if they had to... but they don't, because they don't have to. This is obvious if we accept the first two premise i.e. Democrats only win because of fraudulent activities e.g. ballot harvesting, mail-in-ballot scheme, etc... and lack of election security measures e.g. photo ID verification. Sans these shenanigans, Democrats wouldn't ever win anything except for a handful of House seats maybe. Furthermore, this all boils down to population density. Democrats control most densely populated cities. Republicans control most everything else. Democrats must fight to win most of their densely populated cities. Republicans either win or lose in said cities, but they by and large win every single other area. It is not feasible and efficient to cheat in areas where Republicans are. But it is feasible and efficient to cheat in densely populated areas, most of them under the control of the cheaters. So say, if all things being equal the Republicans would magically swap places with Democrats, then of course the Republicans would be the ones who must cheat to win, and then Republicans would be the ones with a vested interest in a fraud-prone voting system. One can even argue it from an objective, self-interest perspective: the Democrats are rational, if immoral actors, who capitalize on their assets (control over densely populated areas and their institutions, as well as most federal agencies, msm, etc...) to retain and acquire more power by defrauding their political opponents. Why wouldn't they do it, if they are in a position to do it, and if the people allow them to do it time and time again? And 2020 wasn't even the first time they did it (e.g. LBJ's Senate election 1948, Presidential election 1960), it was the most egregious thus far.
And especially if you truly believe that Trump is "literally Hitler." If I believed that the reincarnation of Hitler could win the presidency, I might be tempted to cheat an election to stop him.
Moving the goal posts that "widespread ballot fraud" needs to be proven otherwise there is no election fraud. There is ample evidence of irregularities to merit an investigation and while this does not prove that there was "widespread ballot fraud" it does prove that the counter claim is not proven either.
Altering voting procedures outside of the legal process should be enough to be suspect of the process and there was not a single instance but multiple instances and quite often in the battle ground states.
The reality is that there has been a lack of trust in our electoral process for multiple decades, but with 2020 past actions and questioning was memory holed and became earth shattering evidence of an attempted coup.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but powers was not transferred on January 6th, nor were they ever planned to be transferred on January 6th. There is as valid of an argument that there was a coup on January 6th that succeeded with the election of Joe Biden as there is that there was an unsuccessful coup attempted by Donald Trump.
Both arguments are ridiculous and while I don't believe that the election stolen, I do believe that the election was rigged (many items legally) to provide an advantage. The Democrats did a better job at rigging the election than the Republicans did.
Some of the items however not legal and these items should not be buried and hidden from review and correction. I keep hearing that there is no voter fraud that there is no election tampering, but I keep seeing evidence that our elections are not squeaky clean as claimed.
We have voter rolls that still have dead people or people who have left the state. This is common knowledge and I personally know that my daughter who is married and lives in a different state was still on the voter rolls even though she moved over a decade ago. I even told the person, but the either didn't have the ability to change it or simply didn't care. Considering that we don't require voter id it would be easy for someone to commit voter fraud using her name.
B-B-B-But my choice lost. Therefore there must have been fraud. Everyone I know thinks just like me. Therefore the majority is like me. There is a vast conspiracy against the good, decent people who are all just like me.
Or maybe an unprecedented amount of mystery mail ballots washed away a solid in-person lead when all along the very proposed reasoning for allowing mail-voting was it originally matched in-person voting.
When the continuously F student out of the blue suddenly drops an A+ paper; cheating isn't just a 'my choice' response.
I think the fact that Trump was trashing mail ballots for months before the election might have had something to do with the disparity in partisan use of mail ballots.
^One of the most far-fetched made-up excuses the left is selling to try and cover-up what is blatantly evidence of fraud.
Course there's still the IP-Log connections from China and E.O. election law changes and LiveTV Trump vote deletes and after hours counting and, and, and, and..............
Excuse, excuse, excuse, excuse is all the "most fair election" ever is selling.
^One of the most far-fetched made-up excuses the left is selling to try and cover-up what is blatantly evidence of fraud.
Far fetched? An excuse? It is an established fact that increasing voting by mail did not change partisan voting in a statistically significant way prior to 2020. It is also a fact that Republican politicians and strategists were not speaking out against mail voting until Trump started doing so.
Steve Bannon is on video days before the election talking about how the plan was to claim victory on the night of the election before mail in ballots were counted in some states. If I credited Trump with the intelligence for such a scheme, I would think that the whole act of trashing mail ballots was a deliberate plan to get Republican voters to not use them. Then, he could claim victory before they were all counted, and then make legal efforts to get the mail ballots thrown out to “steal” the election himself. Which is what happened, except that all of those lawsuits failed.
Course there’s still the IP-Log connections from China and E.O. election law changes and LiveTV Trump vote deletes and after hours counting and, and, and, and…………..
The extended use of ellipses here is very appropriate. Here is what I don’t see from you or any other Trump voter – None of you are saying, “Hey! I believed these True the Vote people when they said that they had evidence of fraud! Fuck those assholes for lying to me about something as important as election integrity! I should now be scrutinizing all of the claims of fraud that never went anywhere in official investigations and never led to any prosecutions. Maybe they were all lying to me about having proof of fraud!”
It is you who has an endless list of excuses to continue to believe that there was ‘massive fraud’ to explain how Trump lost to Biden when there is plenty of reason to believe that Team Trump was lying about the evidence of fraud.
Your comment summarized … "Why can’t you just IGNORE all the evidence?"
Seriously. Did you make any point besides that at all?
I sure did. But you seem to have glasses on that only allow you to see what you want to see.
I wonder if you will ever have a moment like this guy did.
Why?
Suppose that you were a Republican and you agreed with Trump (and Obama and Jimmy Carter) that mail-in ballots are a gateway to election fraud because they allow faked ballots to be introduced. Why would that affect your decision to vote by mail?
If I don’t vote by mail, does that mean some fraudster can't harvest ballots? LOL.