Pol Pot's Atrocities Still Matter, 45 Years After Khmer Rouge's Fall
Like many horrors throughout history, they were rooted in radical ideas aimed at implementing some utopian vision.

Forty-five years ago last Sunday, Vietnamese troops seized Phnom Penh and ended Cambodia's 45-month reign of terror known as the "killing fields." Under the leadership of Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge government implemented policies—forced labor, resettlements, torture, starvation—that led to the death of 1.7-to-3 million people, or at least 20 percent of the nation's population. The regime destroyed the country, caused untold suffering, and left permanent scars.
Painful as it is, we should not let these grim anniversaries go unremembered. For context, imagine a "political experiment" that obliterated our society and left a quarter of our 331-million population dead. It's inconceivable. As the son of a Nazi concentration camp survivor and grandson of peasants who fled Russian pogroms, I've always been fascinated by a simple question: What are the conditions that lead to such horrors?
The obvious answer is these horrors always are rooted in ideas, typically radical ones that try to implement some utopian vision. They typically are the work of governments. Large swaths of the population take part—some willingly, others by force. The Cambodian revolution wasn't spontaneous. Its leaders honed their philosophy while studying in Paris. And one usually finds intellectuals behind crazy notions. As the saying goes, "Ideas have consequences"—and they're often tragic.
Cambodia's leaders sought to create an idyllic and classless agrarian society, one that harkened to the Angkor Empire from the 800s. "They wanted all members of society to be rural agricultural workers rather than educated city dwellers, who the Khmer Rouge believed had been corrupted by western capitalist ideas," according to the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust. Their philosophy echoed Mao Zedong, whose efforts to remake China led to unimaginable horrors.
For half of my life, the Cold War and the threat of communism was an ever-present feature. Time moves on, so it's no surprise that fewer Americans remember the widespread fear that totalitarianism might dominate. Communist regimes at one point controlled 30 percent of the world's population. Despite this history, a shocking 2019 poll found more than a third of U.S. millennials approve of communism, with only 57 percent preferring the Declaration of Independence to the Communist Manifesto, according to a report in the Independent.
In 1999, the "Black Book of Communism" tried to detail the number of civilian deaths caused by the world's communist regimes—not deaths caused amid wars and civil strife, but direct massacres from the kind of policies so efficiently carried out in Cambodia. The authors came up with a figure of 100 million. These deaths don't tell the entire story of fear, slavery, and repression. It's simply unfathomable that any modern American could have a view of communist regimes that were any more favorable than the views most of us hold of Nazism.
Then again, ideological narratives grab hold of people in ways that are hard to understand. So many young leftists are nurtured in a university hothouse that divvies up humanity into fixed groups of "oppressor" and "oppressed." They learned to have an endless faith in the government's ability to reorder humanity. They probably haven't been taught about what happens when officials are given unlimited powers to launch a "Great Leap Forward," create "Year Zero" or design a "New Soviet Man."
That's too bad because the reason we live such free and prosperous lives is because we live within a system that limits the government's power to take our property, throw us in prison, depopulate cities, execute us, force us onto long marches and put us in re-education camps. History proves that many people—including those who claim to have the best intentions—would do horrific things if they had such powers at their disposal. We can even point to horrors in the history of our own country, of course.
What lessons can modern Americans draw from the Cambodian nightmare? I'd suggest we show no tolerance toward grandiose social experiments of any kind (such as radically reordering society to avert a supposed climate doom) and focus instead on incrementally improving life within our current system. People get excited about big, transformative ideas even though they can upend society, yet lose interest in the nuts-and-bolts of the slow-moving democratic process. The latter can be hard work, so no wonder political radicals prefer dangerous shortcuts.
Back in Cambodia, the devastation from the 1970s still permeates the nation's politics. After Pol Pot was deposed, the country fell into a civil war that lasted until the 1990s, with an apparently unrepentant Pol Pot finally dying in exile 1998. As Time reports, many former Khmer Rouge officials remain in power and the country "still grapples with Pol Pot's brutal legacy." Cambodia's population is young, so few remember the horrors—but it still casts a pall over everything.
For the rest of us, all we can do is remember, or as author Elie Wiesel said: "For the dead and the living, we must bear witness."
This column was first published in The Orange County Register.
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Bones still percolate up out of the dirt in the killing fields during the rainy season.
You know those eggs that have to be cracked in order to make an omelette du Robespierre? Well, what you see there are the shells.
Even back in my college days, a scant decade after the horrors of Pol Pot, I had fellow students blindly regurgitating that phrase as if it were the most profound thing ever said.
You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.
If only had the cojones back then to speak out: HUMAN BEINGS ARE NOT EGGS! But I probably would have flunked my classes as that was against the grain of the indoctrination.
Don't be throwing red paint at those who wear fur coats. Throw red paint at those who wear Che t-shirts.
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"You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette."
Whenever this is used as a justification, it is always somebody else's "eggs" that are to be broken.
I hope every one of those students have early inset Arterioscerosus and Atherosclerosis from all their precious "omelettes."
I tend to respond to that particular stupid canard with the fury of a swarm of hornets. Usually with something along the lines of "they would have killed you too, you brain-dead cunt."
-jcr
I think it might have been Orwell who retorted:
“Where is the omelette?”
Clara Peller, call your office.
🙂
😉
The Khmer Rouge mantra to their millions of victims was:
"To Keep You Is No Benefit, To Destroy You Is No Loss!"
An apt summary of the horror of Collectivism and it's hatred for the sovereign individual human life. It belongs side-by-side with the Nazi slogan:
"The Common Good Over The Individual Good."
The proper Libertarian reply to both is: "Never Again!"
2024 Salon Headline
Pol Pot Initiatives Reduce Cambodia Carbon Emissions
My favorite Salon headline remains "Oh look, it was the racoon dogs all along!"
MSNBC headline: austere political scholar largely misunderstood.
"Despite this history, a shocking 2019 poll found more than a third of U.S. millennials approve of communism, with only 57 percent preferring the Declaration of Independence to the Communist Manifesto, according to a report in the Independent."
And to think that we so often hear that public schools aren't effective!
I believe that communism, socialism, and other forms of collectivism are hardwired into human brains because those things actually work on the tribal level. Problem is that they don’t scale well past Dunbar’s number. So rather than telling proponents of collectivism that they are evil, tell them they are right! (at least that way they're not on the immediate defensive for being called evil, and more receptive to what you say next) That what they say works when the number of people is small enough. But it doesn’t scale.
Communism works fine for the small family unit. Starts to break down at the extended family level. And is utterly bonkers for anything of a larger scale than a neighborhood watch.
Even in a kindergarten it is stupid to tell a child, "Did you bring enough for everyone?" Even as a kindergartner I knew instinctively that something was wrong with that question. But so many college student, not just modern students but all college students ever, seem to think they're so sophisticated as to think that question profound.
I believe that communism, socialism, and other forms of collectivism are hardwired into human brains because those things actually work on the tribal level.
Yes, you do believe that, because you are an ignorant fool and understand neither how tribal societies work, nor what "communism" and "socialism" actually mean.
General agreement this morning that he was hitting the bottle rather early; I see it's quieted down so suspect he is passed on his [or someone's] couch by now.
They rarely listen after you’ve agreed with them.
That might work if they were rational at any point. But they are NOT rational. They "feel" that life is unfair and that the only way to make it fair is to make everyone equal, eliminating any dissent that might undermine the success of the equalization. They buy the narrative that all of that dissent comes from greedy, corrupt profiteers. There is nothing logical about any of it, therefore there is no way to argue against it. All we can do is oppose it with extreme prejudice.
"I believe that communism, socialism, and other forms of collectivism are hardwired into human brains because those things actually work on the tribal level."
You forget the 'tool' used in national communism and socialism. Gangs with guns out being greedy in the deception of 'share' you wallet with the gun toting selfless (criminals in disguise).
The ------------> TOOL <--------------- is what makes it a curse. Government is nothing but a monopoly of gun-force. That's the only thing that separates it from any Not-Government entity. 'Guns' do not make sh*t so if getting something is it's agenda STEALING is what happens.
The founders saw this as is well shown in the US Constitution and past phrases like to ensure Individual Liberty and Justice for all. That's all a monopoly of Gov-Guns can do to make a society civil.
Communism and Socialism turns that premise on it's head. Human greed with criminal 'gun'-forced intentions is the hard-wiring. And those who realize 'guns' isn't the correct tool to get something know communism and socialism is a curse.
It was Libertarian author Robert J. Ringer a.k.a. "The Tortoise" citing Non-Voter activust Sy Leon who observed that anything "works" depending on your purpose. Concentration camps "work" if your purpose is to enslave and murder people.
The "collectivist" impulse is in our genes. BAck in the Stone Age (about a million years ago) your only chance of survival long enough to pass on your genes was to stay with your group and to go along with it, making yourself valuable to it. A million years is long enough for something that confers an evolutionary advantage to work its way into the DNA. Even now, people who strike out completely on their own are few and far between. What we have is people moving to a different group or groups. But to get to that point it was needed for the environment to change enough that you could go between groups and survive (back in the day the group that you might want to join would actually kill or enslave you - and some might actually eat you). We have a lot hardwired into us, and when we feel threatened we go back to those ancestral instincts.
Huma b s knew less about their world then and thus couldn't use the world around them as resources to survive and thrive.
Now, we have much more knowledge and skill to create a "fuck you" stash for when groups go rotten.
Yes, we do. But the DNA still has those genes, and we still have those instincts. And you cannot call people wicked because they listen to their instincts. Instincts are faster than thoughts, and thoughts serve to justify instincts - unless we are aware and have the tools to talk ourselves out of it.
There are no instincts in humans. All ideas are taught..."Carefully Taught."
"making yourself valuable to it"
Well that part was certainly un-learned.
"because those things actually work on the tribal level. Problem is that they don’t scale well past Dunbar’s number. "
Tribes exceed Dungbar's number. Clans of indigenous North America are larger still. Native confederations, even larger.
I don't dispute that collectivities break down and fail, but it's not because they exceed an arbitrary number.
They break down and fail with they start believing 'guns' can make sh*t for them.
You are muted sarcasmic, mainly for just being an asshole.
Your loss.
Yeah, you miss gems of wisdom like this:
"So rather than telling proponents of collectivism that they are evil, tell them they are right!"
How are you different than a leftist who take a single sentence from Wealth of Nations and uses it to claim Smith hated free trade? (that was rhetorical, because the answer is that you’re exactly like the people you hate)
The single sentence was just one of many gems. Anyone who wants to can scroll up and read the whole thing.
Why the fuck are you responding to someone who is muted?
I see a gray box with a name; I think it is very unproductive to attempt to dialogue with a sock, but sometimes I just can't help it [and if you've noticed there is a lot of that going on around here: I call it The Temptation of Trolls].
People keep saying "Well, true communism has not been tried yet", but the Khmer Rouge were really not an outlier. May have killed a higher percentage of the population, largely due to how brief their reign was....but Mao and Stalin had a similar number of deaths from what we know. Cuba has been a shithole for decades. We do not know how bad Vietnam got after the NV takeover.
I would argue that Jonestown and Heaven's Gate achieved true communism.
Jonestown explicitly so. Heaven's Gate seemed to be non-partisan psychotic whackery.
The people who say 'true communism hasn't been tried yet' should note that maybe this is a good thing since even 'partial' communism killed around 100 million people. That isn't the selling point they might hope that it is.
It's all nonsense, of course. A 'strong man' leader will invariably be required to institute it, and they will not give up power once they've seized it. An altruistic communist is perhaps the most dangerous type yet discovered despite it also being an oxymoron.
“Well, true communism has not been tried yet”
Which is of course, and outrageous lie. Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Ceacescu, etc, all demonstrated the reality of communism. All that happy horseshit about equality is just the sales pitch to appeal to pinhead sophists.
-jcr
All had central authoritarian governments.
According to Marx "true communism" has no central authority.
That wouldn't work either.
Marx was an unemployable bum who seemed to have no concept of human nature and was a righteous prick to boot.
Engels was, for wont of a better term, his sugar daddy.
A regular populist Christian nationalist that guy.
Always attack the person, not what the person says.
Is that a rule for you, like on a bracelet or something?
"What would a complete and total cunt say?" Too long for a wristband.
How are you already drunk?
What a retarded non sequitur to my post. Are you okay?
WWACATCS?
Pour sarc. On the booze again.
Why don’t you reply to my 9:01 post instead of being a complete and total cunt?
Are you drunk? How about I do what I choose to do lol.
God damn. Put the fucking bottle down.
Next time just say you're incapable of conversation that involves actual thought.
What honest thought have you given buddy? What conversation? People here are tired of your bullshit. Why you're stuck defending jeff, shrike, and m4e.
Stop acting like a drunk asshole.
The fact your crying and demand recognition for one non shit post is very telling though lol. Want a gold star for your first not victim, drunk, blame Trump for everything post? This isn't kindergarten retard. Get validation elsewhere. Pay for it from your bartender if you need.
What a preening drunk moron.
The fact that you can't respond to what you call my only non-shit post says more about you than me.
What, you want him to be a sober asshole? At least the ETOH takes a bit of the edge off.
If you're going to mute me you could at least not talk about me, being you've taken away my ability to defend myself.
From drunk to main lining victim hood in 15 minutes. New record.
I'm so sorry. I moved in on Trump's territory. He's The Victim.
That was obvious sarcasm.
You sure about that?
There is this guy named Poe, and he has a horizon of sorts. Personally I cannot tell any more.
I should have clarified that I thought Jesse’s post was sarcasm.
Totally possible my detector is broken though.
Marjory Taylor Greeneteeth is grinning with a cigarette in her mouth and saying: "Soon, beby! Soon!"
That's too bad because the reason we live such free and prosperous lives is because we live within a system that limits the government's power to take our property, throw us in prison, depopulate cities, execute us, force us onto long marches and put us in re-education camps.
We got damn close to this with Covid. Unchecked gov't power and half the country begged for it. The media vilifying skeptics. I thought there was a good chance we'd go to the mattresses.
COVID was the final evidence that the media is not about "reporting" or "speaking truth to power" but, instead, were just stenographers for progressivism.
"Under the leadership of Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge government implemented policies—forced labor, resettlements, torture, starvation—that led to the death of 1.7-to-3 million people, or at least 20 percent of the nation's population."
But he wasn't a colonizer, so that's all right.
Painful as it is, we should not let these grim anniversaries go unremembered.
No we shouldn't. Even more so imo, we should not be complicit in current genocides, grim as they too are. Never again doesn't work when we remain complicit. And golly
here's an Irish lawyer - Blinne Ní Ghrálaigh - making her case to the ICJ yesterday as to why Gaza is potentially undergoing genocide as we speak. It's a longish speech (30 min) but never boring - and yes grim:
Only excerpt: The first genocide in history where its victims are broadcasting their own destruction in real time in the desperate so far vain hope that the world might do something
Mothers undergoing caesareans without anesthesia. 80% of the people in the world currently facing famine are in Gaza. Bodies rotting under the rubble - still uncounted and undiscovered. Journalists being targeted to ensure there is as little news escaping as possible. People with experience in dealing with these sorts of horrors dating back to the killing fields who cannot express what's happening in words, etc.
Funded by the US. Covered up by Reason. Supported by everyone here in the pro-genocide wing of 'libertarian' thinking. Everyone in the US knows this is happening and we are choosing to ignore it and choosing to be blind. Deaths are about to explode - unrecorded - as both famine and disease start taking hold while the blanket bombing still is happening.
Story idea - Maybe we can talk about how the world is now almost entirely free of famine because of free markets. After all - Gaza doesn't exist.
Interesting stat apropos of nothing at all. Total recorded deaths (includes the recorded 'missing' who are all rotting in the rubble or simply obliterated) in Gaza as a % of population now equals just short of the % of the British population killed in World War 1. In Gaza of course that's mostly civilians and children. In Britain that was soldiers at the Somme, Passchendaele, and in Flanders fields :
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead.
The retaliation is horrific, but that's what you get when you choose to have an actual terrorist gang be your government. Hamas deliberately murdered and raped men, women, and children attending a music festival. They deliberately use hospitals as shields by building their bases underneath them. Their tactics were designed force the Israelis to retaliate they way they do.
And all you people can do is declare Hamas the innocent victim. Fuck off. Hamas wanted this response because their purpose is not governance of Gaza but shocking terror. They actively worked to achieve this response.
Hamas was not 'the government of Gaza'. They were the armed gang running the world's largest open air prison under siege for 17 years. The Duke in 'Escape from New York'.
Funded by Israel even before it became Hamas. Trained in terrorist tactics (esp suicide bombings) when/because Israel deported many of them to Lebanon (and found Hezbollah there). And in Netanyahu's words:
Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,’ he told a meeting of his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. ‘This is part of our strategy—to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.’
Thank you for expressing your support of genocide.
Hamas was not ‘the government of Gaza’.
They were elected, and they have majority support.
They were the armed gang running the world’s largest open air prison
Gaza is an autonomous, self-governing region; the fact that its people lost the ability to travel through its two neighboring countries is their own fault.
Thank you for expressing your support of genocide.
It is Hamas and the majority of Palestinians who are calling for genocide, and you support them.
"Gaza is an autonomous, self-governing region"
Only in a very very narrow sense. Once the Jewish settlers were given the boot and Palestinians were on their own, they were free to swim and sunbathe at the once Jew only beaches of Gaza. Travel once again down Jew only roads, and enjoy the loosening of other features that were forbidden under apartheid rule. As wonderful as all that is, it falls far short of an autonomous, self governing region.
"Only in a very very narrow sense..."
IOWs, it's true, asshole.
"They were the armed gang running the world’s largest open air prison under siege for 17 years. "
Hamas ran Gaza much like the PA ran the West Bank. That's the way Israel wanted it, as running an occupation is difficult business, policing, administering and running health and education services etc. Israeli Jews were not up to the task never had much interest in the day to day running of the occupied territories, so it was left to Palestinians. Israelis did maintain a blockade and siege in Gaza surrounding it with bases and troops, and monitoring and controlling everything that went in and out.
It is Israel's fault that Jordanians in Gaza voted for Hamas and cheer for them as they starve them and aim to get as many people as killed as possible (and, of course, grossly inflating the number of dead on top of that)?
Do you realize how patently insane that sounds?
Jordanians in Gaza? Almost all residents of Gaza are stateless. They don't have citizenship or passports. Someone has misinformed you.
It's Israel that is responsible for starving Gaza. You haven't read the South African document detailing the charges of genocide, have you? You should. It's best to be informed before commenting. It's long and detailed, but a quick skim through it will get you up to speed.
"(and, of course, grossly inflating the number of dead on top of that)?"
What are the more accurate figures of the death toll? Whose figures are you relying on?
"Jordanians in Gaza? Almost all residents of Gaza are stateless."
No. They are Jordanians. Didn't even call themselves "Palestinians" until the 1960's.
"hey don’t have citizenship or passports."
Take up your issues with Jordan.
"It’s Israel that is responsible for starving Gaza."
Yup, the evil JOOOOS stole all of the aid sent to Gaza and refused to give it to the rabble living there. All the fault of the JOOOOS.
"You haven’t read the South African document detailing the charges of genocide, have you?"
Why would I read nonsense from a pro-genocide government?
"You should. It’s best to be informed before commenting."
Pots. Kettles. You finish the rest.
"What are the more accurate figures of the death toll? Whose figures are you relying on?"
ANYBODY independent would be nice. Not murderous degenerates.
"No. They are Jordanians. "
According to you, perhaps, But not according to international law, ie the treaties Israel signed on being conferred statehood in 1948. Under these treaties, they are refugees and Israel is bound to deal with them according to international law. This Jordanian citizenship gambit is silly and convinces nobody. Who gave you this idea?
"Why would I read nonsense from a pro-genocide government? "
To keep informed. You really have to ask me?
"Yup, the evil JOOOOS stole "
They signed those treaties voluntarily. Actions have consequences.
"ANYBODY independent would be nice."
You have anyone in particular in mind? Is there a figure you'd be willing to accept without raising questions? If 23,000 is grossly inflated, how about 7,000? That's the number of Hamas fighters Israel claims to have killed. That would mean 7,000 dead terrorists, 0 women and 0 children, (leaving aside the undiscovered and unidentified corpses rotting under the rubble.) Does that also strike you as grossly exaggerated?
“…largest open air prison…”
Whenever someone repeats this uncritically, you can safely ignore everything else they have to say on the subject.
"you can safely ignore "
If you feel threatened by wrongthink, you should put your faith in the likes of Joe Biden or deSantis. They are steering a course to yet more unending war and suffering.
Not so much "wrongthink" as "mindless parroting of utter bullshit".
You mean there's a larger open air prison than Gaza? Or concentration camp is the more accurate term? What is the correct characterization of Gaza? Can you make a case, or not?
China is one, for starters. Both as a jail and a concentration camp.
But, please, tell us more of the never-ending evil of the JOOOOS.
"Both as a jail and a concentration camp."
Chinese can easily get passports and leave the country. You don't know what you're talking about. But you are right that China is bigger than Gaza. Most countries are. The question remains. What is Gaza if not a prison or concentration camp? What's on those cue cards the Zionist propagandists have prepared for you?
The cue cards read "Do not treat Nazis with respect".
I'll follow the advice.
Remember when progs like you said you should punch a Nazi?
Good to see how serious you guys were.
You don’t seem to know what a Nazi is. The first decade of their rule, they bent over backwards, issuing visas and even offering money to German Jews who were willing to relocate abroad, including Israel. That was the work of the SS until they stumbled on their final solution. Their initial plans failed because countries like America and the UK hated the idea of living with Jews as much as the Germans.
China isn’t a giant open air prison. In some ways Chinese are freer and less subject to surveillance and regulation than Americans.
There are books about Nazi Germany. You should read one. You won’t regret it. It’s an interesting period and Hitler is a fascinating, if repellent figure.
When I hear someone say 'Hamas is the governing authority of Gaza' that's what indicates something to be ignored.
The 2006 elections were NOT for Gaza but for West Bank AND Gaza combined. Hamas won a majority of seats in the Palestinian Legislature. There is only one legislature. One can argue about 'why' they won but that is irrelevant.
The immediate result was that:
a)Israel shut down all connections between Gaza and the rest of the world so the Gaza members of the legislature could not attend and
b)Israel arrested (and later assassinated) enough Hamas legislators so that a quorum could not be achieved anyway. This is also why some of those legislators went to Qatar and remain there and
c)even inside the West Bank, Israel regularly prohibits legislators from traveling to Ramallah.
So the entire legislature has never met with a quorum since that election. Meaning there was never an election that resulted in anything 'governance'. It didn't happen and it didn't happen because of Israel's actions.
Further, Israel is the tax collector for the PA - tariffs, VAT, and income. There is obviously no possible land/property tax because Israel is the occupying power. They regularly dick around with all that and when they do remit it to the PA, they remit it to Abbas (the President of the PA) rather than through the legislature or the PM (Haniyeh). This is what created much of the conflict between Fatah and Hamas as they informally tried to cobble together a government over the years. And specifically, the US and Israel created/funded a Presidential Guard (loyal to Abbas) with the intent of taking over Gaza and getting rid of Hamas. That was what started the Hamas-Fatah war in Gaza in 2007 which Hamas won.
There is no 'governing authority'. The entirety is occupied territory. A prison.
Israel did not shut down all connections between Gaza and the rest of the world. They shut down access to Israel. Egypt shut down Gaza's only other land border.
But, don't you see? The evil JOOOOOS "made" Egypt do that do their evil JOOOOOishness and stuff.
Man, "How could Germans buy into the nonsense Hitler was peddling?" is a question being answered by progressives repeatedly these days.
You're wrong. The Philadelphi corridor is the strip of land along the Egypt - Israeli border -nb Egypt-Israeli border - where Gaza is outside Egypt and inside the Israeli border.
Israel controls that as part of the 1979 peace treaty. It is why tunnels were built along that border - to cross the corrido.
Israel shut the entire border around Gaza. It is a prison. You don't know that because you are lazy, gullible and prefer to be a useful idiot.
"WHY IS ACCESS THROUGH RAFAH RESTRICTED BY EGYPT?
Egypt is the only Arab state to share a border with Gaza and it fears the destabilising effect of an exodus of Palestinians. Egypt and Jordan have both warned against Palestinians being forced off their land.
Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi is also wary of Hamas, an Islamist armed group created by the Muslim Brotherhood.
Since Hamas took control in Gaza in 2007, Egypt has helped enforce a blockade of the enclave.
During a previous blockage in 2008 Hamas blasted holes in Egypt's border fortifications. That allowed tens of thousands of Palestinians to cross into Sinai, and prompted Egypt to build a stone and cement wall.
Egypt is also wary of insecurity in northeastern Sinai, where it faced an Islamist insurgency that has now largely been suppressed."
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/why-gazas-rafah-border-crossing-matters-why-egypt-is-keeping-it-shut-2023-10-17/#:~:text=Egypt%20and%20Jordan%20have%20both%20warned%20against%20Palestinians,has%20helped%20enforce%20a%20blockade%20of%20the%20enclave.
Egypt does NOT have a border with Gaza. They have a border with Israel. Gaza is not a state. It is entirely within – and occupied by – Israel.
Israel chose - in 1967, to assume responsibility for Gaza, West Bank, and all the Palestinians within. It was their choice and only their choice to do that. No matter how much they perpetually whine about their victimhood and lack of responsibility for anything. And now they want to kill the Palestinians. Which won't work as well as Israel or you thinks it will work or wants it to work.
Whenever I hear "open air prison", I remember a passage in the _Gulag Archipelago". I can't give an exact quote, but Solzhenitsyn said that to a zek (prisoner), the other side of the wire was just a larger prison. The Soviet Union was the world's largest prison by area. Red China was the world's largest by population. I'm not sure if that has entirely changed in either country.
How are you so ignorant on every topic?
At first I thought JFree was just a reflexive contrarian, which I can understand.
Now, years later, I realize they are simply an over educated moron that thinks whatever credentials they've earned entitle their opinion to extra weight when their 'opinion' is about as divorced from reality as one can get.
I haven't muted JFree because they obviously are capable of reading, but I'm on the fence these days since their opinions are clearly not data driven but rather formed from cherry picking deliberately one-sided data while ignoring the obvious staring them in the face.
If I had to bet, I'd say JFree works at a college. Probably not as a professor, but I'd guess admin that's surveyed a lot of classes or a perpetual grad student.
I don’t know what you mean by ‘obvious staring me in the face’. I assume it is the ‘Hamas are terrorists who slaughtered on Oct 7 and that is so horrible we can slaughter anyone at will until our rage recedes. Because like ponies and manure, wherever there’s a civilian there is a Hamas terrorist somewhere in the vicinity behind/underneath them’.
That is the usual crap (rephrased) that is rationalizing what is happening. And the reason I ignore it – and don’t repeat it as some article of virtue signaling and faith – or even truth - is because that statement is INTENDED to distract from any further observation. Nothing to see here. Move along. IOW – it is intended as propaganda in the truest sense. And I don’t give a shit about that and pretty much despise anyone who settles for that.
Or are you talking about a different obvious staring me in the face.
"Sure, they murdered innocent people for no reason....but we need to look at how other people were mean to them first so it's all OK!"
Context spoils your narrative, in other words.
Evil JOOOS deserve it. You know, for being JOOOOS and all.
Do you have Horst-Wessel-Lied as your ringtone?
"Evil JOOOS deserve it. "
They certainly had it coming. See what happens when you keep people in cages for decades on end. When they finally break free do you really think they'll be kindly disposed to their warders?
mtrue going with "Did you SEE the dress she was wearing?"
People don't like to live in cages. This is news to you?
"Their tactics were designed force the Israelis to retaliate they way they do. "
Israel was not forced to do anything by Hamas. Israel chose to embark on its current course through intemperance and blood lust. If you really that the Israeli genocide was part of the Hamas plan, then why support Israel's and America's falling into line and taking up the bait? How does the reaction serve Israel? Or America?
Gaza exists, and it is full of people who have declared a genocidal war on Jews and who want to implement a murderous, totalitarian regime. And until they give up on that and surrender, they will continue to be bombed, just like Japan and Nazi Germany were before them.
Thank you for expressing your support of genocide.
Trying to find when your standard ignorant transition to activist talking points started. Was it covid or even before that?
Aren’t you the guy who said unvaxxed people have no right to go into a hospital?
TBF, I think he just said that they should be denied care before a vaccinated person. Which is still fucked up, come to think of it.
What I said was that if the hospital was full - ie under what is called 'crisis standards of care' - that they would not be admitted for the treatment of covid - ie that vaccination (or more broadly - reasons why the hospital is suddenly full and now under crisis standards of care) would be included as an admissions factor for those crisis standards of care.
The point was not to deny care. The point was for people to get vaccinated so the hospitals were no longer full. Absent that, the people who died were random people with pancreatitis or heart attacks or just people who were older who couldn't be admitted for slightly-less-urgent-at-the-time care because the hospital was full.
If I chose to phrase all that so that antivaxxers here got offended, then good. That's the fucking point. They were defrauding people and killing them with disinformation - and continue to.
If I chose to phrase all that so that antivaxxers here got offended, then good. That’s the fucking point. They were defrauding people and killing them with disinformation – and continue to.
And there you have it, JFree explaining that their goal is to troll.
It's amusing to watch you label COVID skeptics as 'anti-vaxxers' though since that's a well known label with particular group characteristics. Tell me, how many 'conservatards' believe the COVID vaccine makes you autistic?
I remember this Tweet.
https://twitter.com/ForRealFormica/status/1474065494160429061
Fuck off, and take your false dichotomy with you.
JFree coming out against the DeNazification of Germany.
Getting awfully close to Godwinning yourself.
Irony is not your strength is it
Tell me more, J "Please don't fight back against people who killed numerous people for no reason BUT do allow people who do not take a vaccine I support die, even though the vaccine did not do shit" Free.
You are far too stupid to even be a useful idiot much less engage in any conversation about the Middle East.
What you prove however is how repugnant the entirety of 'noninterventiost' foreign policy is as propounded by your Mises crowd ilk, Reason, libertarian ideology, etc. Because it turns out that suppoting
genocidemass slaughter of unarmed children is precisely the sort of intervention you assclowns favor.No. I support Hamas being eliminated and the Jordanians in Gaza creating a government that can live in peace with its neighbors.
Until they do that, the outcome is 100% on them.
Don't worry --- nobody expects progressives to ACTUALLY believe in human rights.
You are a slightly less honest Misek.
Jfree, if you support Hamas, you support war crimes, including torture, gang rape, and mass murder. Decent people support executing the war criminals, or at least crushing their organization and making sure they can never do it again. That requires going to war and winning _completely_ like we did in WWII, not fighting a little and then accepting a ceasefire until they recover and attack again.
When you do that, a lot of civilians will be killed too- and even more when the criminals use their own civilians as human shields. But the civilians in Gaza are not innocent. They support Hamas. Many of them followed Hamas's fighters into Israel to join in the rape, murder, and looting.
I don't support Hamas at all.
What is happening now is not a war against Hamas. It is strengthening Hamas. Nor is it a war to rescue hostages. Israel and Netanyahu understand how to conduct those sorts of operations.
It is aerial and artillery bombardment against a civilian population. The largest scale against cities since WW2. That ran out of military targets three months ago. For the purpose of emptying the people of Gaza into the Sinai or wherever. Or killing them. Doesn't matter to Israel as they are more than happy to proclaim.
We are completely complicit in that. Militarily there is no even match here. Israel can do whatever the fuck they want to do. Our complicity is the most destructive action we have taken against our own national self interest in many decades at least.
That's what you support.
Stupid lie is stupid, and fuck you for promulgating it, you nazi prick. If Israel wanted a genocide, this would have been over on October 8.
-jcr
Israel WANTS ethnic cleansing. They have wanted ethnic cleansing since long before Israel came into existence. Roughly since the kind-of-nonexistent-and-certainly-long-forgotten arguments within Zionism between the ethnonationalist vision of Zionism (Herzl, Jabotinsky, and Ben Gurion) and the binationalist 'renaissance' vision of Zionism (Buber, Arendt, and others who were never really willing to move but who supported from the liberal Western parts of diaspora) was finished in the late 1920's. Examples of how they have overtly wanted that for a long long time range from the Naqba to the many many commenters here who think ethnic cleansing is just peachy and that Palestinians are not really human and have no real ties to the land and may not have even existed because it was all empty desert before the blooming.
Genocide is what happens when the 'cleansed' refuse to move and the 'cleaners' decide to kill them.
We know. Them JOOOS be evil, no?
Oddly, they are the victims of a government initiated "genocide", masterminded by the government they voted for themselves.
Tons of aid has been sent to Gaza. Hamas has stolen almost all of it.
Sounds like they might need to rebel against them.
Thank you for expressing your support of genocide.
I oppose Hamas.
So do I. The difference is you support genocide. I don't.
The reason communism remains socially acceptable is that the world has never had to confront and come to terms with its evil. After World War II and the revelation of the moral obscenity of the death camps, "That wasn't real Nazism." could only ever be seen as some sort of sick joke. Even ex ante reluctance to wage war on them, let alone support or agreement, put one outside the boundary of acceptable discourse. But, communism, as a moral outrage was no less monstrous or barbaric. There's no legitimate reason communism should be seen as any less beyond the pale then Nazism. But, after the fall of the Soviet Union, the world's fellow travelers and leftists were, for the most part, given a pass. They were never put in the position of having to acknowledge that they had supported a murderous, psychopathic system no less predicated on hatred. They were allowed to get away with idiotic drivel like "But we meant well...." or "It worked on paper, but...". And the murders and psychopathy faded into the background and the fellow travelers and leftists soon enough reverted to form, if anything, in more senior positions.
No, I think the reason is that communism is a worldwide movement, while nazism was not. If there a worldwide nazi movement, I think you'd've seen the same lack of reaction.
Only if leftist had glommed on to it and admitted it was just a nationalistic version of their preferred policies.
They somewhat do that with the CCP. CCP power is ethically based on the Han Chinese. Communism/ Nazis/ Socialism all the same coin.
Fair.
Tibet is an autonomous region. That means the head of the region is a native Tibetan. The CCP owes its power to such individuals as well as corrupt monks afraid to upset the status quo. It's not a new strategy. Divide and conquer is the short hand for it.
Uh, yes Nazism was a global movement! They had spies and sympathizers in The German-American Bund and Hitler explicitly said: "First Germany, Tomorrow, The World!"
Again, forget you ever heard the term "Libertarian."
At the end of World War Two there was no good reason for the United States, England and France to stop short of liberating the rest of eastern Europe from the Russians. Although it would have been insane to carry that liberation all the way to Moscow, the Russian army was not in any position to prevent us from pushing them all the way back to the Russian border. We apparently held off because of a mixture of emotional exhaustion and outright socialist sympathies in the government.
"there was no good reason for the United States, England and France to stop short of liberating the rest of eastern Europe from the Russians"
Once Hitler invaded the USSR, the Soviets had been sold to the American public as worthwhile and honorable allies. To wage war against them after the fall of Berlin would have not been supported by the American public. In addition, the American public was war-weary from fighting the Germans and the Japanese. One of the considerations in Truman's decision to use the Atomic bomb was that the horrendous cost of invading Japan would likely not have been supported by the public and would have resulted in an armistice. This would have lead to another war, in a similar fashion that the armistice that ended WW1 led to WW2.
T
"One of the considerations in Truman’s decision to use the Atomic bomb was that the horrendous cost of invading Japan would likely not have been supported by the public and would have resulted in an armistice"
You are miscalculating the cost of invasion. The navy and army of Japan were already destroyed, and whatever was left was stranded in China and Manchuria. The population was starving and reduced to eating dogs and cats. Once Americans landed on the main islands, all that was necessary was to wave a box of corn flakes, and they'd have them eating from their hands.
The atom bomb was not much different from the firebombings of Kanto and Kansai.
Well, there was a good reason, called the Red Army.
The military chiefs knew something that they never told the public. That the reason why D-Day was successful was because the bulk of the German Army was fighting in Russia.
They also knew from Napoleon and Hitler that invading Russia was A BAD IDEA.
Both Patton and McArthur wanted to invade Russia. Had they got their wish, they could have met in the middle like during The U.S. Transcontinental Railroad and sledgehammered a golden spike in Stalin's head.
🙂
😉
Good thing that they did not try. They would have joined Napoleon and Hitler in their attempt.
All this is very true....butbutbut, isnt that bringing up old East European grievances? Weren't there also a bunch of people with Irish and Italian surnames who supported Communist, Fascist, and Nazi Collectivist ideologies too?
Big, big, big start again.
"The obvious answer is these horrors always are rooted in ideas,"
It wasn't ideas but starvation and stupidity that killed so many. The KR got its start in the jungles in the east of Cambodia, near the Ho Chi Minh trail. There was extremely heavy bombing making life difficult for the peasants who entrusted their children to the care of Pol Pot, who fed, clothed and sheltered the children, as well as trained them as foot soldiers in his army. As the KR grew more successful, they started to occupy towns. Not wanting to win in the countryside only to lose in the towns, Pol Pot had the towns evacuated, but allowed them to be repopulated after it was deemed safe. When it came to the capital, Phnom Penh, a huge metropolis in comparison to previously conquered areas, the logistics of the evacuation overwhelmed the KR meager intellectual and material resources. Therein lies the root of the disaster.
"many former Khmer Rouge officials remain in power and the country "still grapples with Pol Pot's brutal legacy."
It's a bit of an understatement. Hun Sen is the current PM and has been for the past 25 years.
Basically what happened was that the major political players showed themselves incapable to stop the carpet bombing, thus losing legitimacy, which allowed a marginal group to come on top. And marginal groups tend to be somewhat lunatic - because people who are sane see that there is no future in a marginal group and leave, which allows the nuttier members to end up in responsible positions. Think about Lyndon LaRouche taking over.
As for evacuating the cities, there was a certain rationale. The massive bombing campaign had driven a lot of peasants into the cities, in such numbers that there were not enough of them to bring in the harvest. They needed the peasants back at the farm. But then the policy was implemented by people who had no idea of how to do it right.
Bullshit! The Khmer Rouge hated the very idea of cities and thought the Year Zero Utopia could only be implemented in an agrarian society! And people were forced to eat children under the Khmer Rouge version of the Holodolmar!
Fuck Off, Watermelon Rickshaw Nazi Boy!
As I said, the Khmer Rouge for a long time was a fringe group. Fringe groups do have crazy ideas, and one of the effects of a collapse is that fringe groups do tend to try their ideas.
Actually one of craziest and most dangerous ideas that people could have is that running a government is easy if they follow the manual. That's what happened in the French Revolution. It ended up in the hands of Rousseau fanboys, who learned about the Peter Principle the hard way,
The Khmer Rouge were not "fringe" in the context of Communist/Collectivist ideology. The Khmer Rouge were the quintessence of what Communism/Collectivism actually means.
The individual did not matter in their achievement of Year Zero, (see their mantra I mentioned above in the Comments,) so the end result was piles of skulls and bones.
"The Khmer Rouge were the quintessence of what Communism/Collectivism actually means. "
If you're referring to Maoist communism, you have a point. Stalinist communism was all about industrial development. Pastoral nomads in Kazakhstan for example were forced at gun point to give up their goats and work in the mines. The women folk forced to give up their head scarves and go to work as teachers in the towns and cities. Any cadres in the KR exhibiting Stalinist tendencies were severely dealt with.
https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=86DD20FEF8163821224FA7CF9E4438F0
A decent book on the subject. A little dry, but it covers all the bases.
"Stalinist communism was all about industrial development."
Woulda worked if not for the damned kulaks, right? Stalinism was about keeping Stalin in power, nothing more. Mass genocide by the truckload.
"Woulda worked if not for the damned kulaks, right?"
Kulaks tended to be wealthier farmers.
"Stalinism was about keeping Stalin in power, nothing more."
You need to read more. I doubt you've read Steven Kotkin's biography. Start from there. It's an interesting story.
https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=926735C8631BAF927169BDFB5BE95F1D
Holy shit, now you justify Stalin's genocide?
Fuck off with your "don't you care about the (fill in assorted loathsome group)?" bullshit.
"Holy shit, now you justify Stalin’s genocide?"
One thing I learned over the past couple of days is that for charges of genocide to stick, you need to demonstrate intent. Can you do that for Stalin? That he intended to kill huge numbers of people? Let's see you try. I understand you know almost nothing of the matter. Read Kotkin's second volume on the life of Stalin, that should help you. If you aren't up to the challenge, just ask me, and I can help you out.
I am talking about "fringe" in the context of ideology but as significant political player. When you are a fringe political player you are prey to all kinds of group pathologies. Because in politics, if power corrupts, lack of power makes you weird.
" The Khmer Rouge hated the very idea of cities"
As I mentioned, they over ran several towns in the north and east, had them evacuated, and then after it was deemed safe, allowed the population to return. The size and importance of the capital Phnom Penh, as well as the intellectual and administrative incompetence of the KR made a repeat of the strategy impossible.
"The Khmer Rouge hated the very idea of cities and thought the Year Zero Utopia could only be implemented in an agrarian society!"
They went much much further than an agrarian society. Agrarian societies utilize tractors and other farming equipment. One of the biggest controversies within the KR was whether or not to import tractors from China. They decided not to and those who opposed were purged. Agrarian societies have money. The KR abolished it. They did have money printed by the Chinese but it was never put into circulation until the Hun Sen regime. Agrarian societies center around family life. Under KR, the Cambodians lived as soldiers and prepared and ate all meals in communally in barracks.
Wrong you are, Squid Foo Yung breath!
Pol Pot learned about Marxist-Lenninist Communism in L'Academies en France. And part of his anti-intellectual purges included murdering people with glasses, since Pol Pot associated glasses with intellectuals like France's Jean-Paul Sartre.
So Fuck Off, Watermelon Rickshaw Nazi Boy!
Pol Pot followed Mao's agricultural peasant line rather than Stalin's industrial worker line. I linked to a fairly definitive book on the history you can check if you doubt me.
"Pol Pot learned about Marxist-Lenninist Communism in L’Academies en France."
Have you read anything about Pol Pot? Before he went to France, where he was a mediocre student at best, he was raised in I believe a Buddhist monastery and was basically a member or hanger on at the court of Prince Sihanouk. It's telling also that Buddhists weren't singled out for extermination during the days of the Killing Fields, and Sihanouk was granted every courtesy and allowed a comfortable exile in Beijing. Pol Pot was not the fanatical communist you take him for.
That would not be because Sihanouk fucking SUPPORTED the Khmer Rouge.
Nope, that was not why he was not killed.
Damn, you're a moron.
"That would not be because Sihanouk fucking SUPPORTED the Khmer Rouge."
Nobody claimed Sihanouk supported the KR. He was not killed because he lived in exile in Beijing, as I mentioned. Did you miss it? Read my words. I choose them carefully. Had he stayed in Cambodia who knows what would have happened to him. Try this book, Brother Number One:
https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=FF9A0169570EF40A7FF65F4E1E739016
It's short and focuses on Pol Pot. Meanwhile, if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
The fact that he respected Buddhist monks and that he persecuted, among others, the Vietnamese community makes me think that Pol Pot was at the bottom a nationalist, purging Cambodia from "foreign influences" - after all, intellectuals were the one brining in foreign ideas.
It might be worthwhile to read John Lukacs, a historian who thinks that nationalism is far more dangerous and pervasive than communism might be. The way he tells it, there were a lot of suicides in Germany after the Third Reich fell. There were no suicides in Russia due to the fall of communism - because by then people did not believe in it - no matter what lip service they gave it.
I know that it is hard for people to wander off their chosen area of expertise ("socialism and how to debunk it"), but one must consider all factors, not just one.
Like many horrors throughout history, they were rooted in radical ideas aimed at implementing some utopian vision.
Liar.
The evil sons of whores sought unopposed power over innocent people for their own fucking personal gain, not to implement “some utopian vision”.
Agreed.
"Some utopian vision" is reserved for the followers, aka useful idiots.
Exactly. Utopia is the selling point to the proles while the leaders know full well it's a promise they have no intention of keeping.
Like an angrier Fauci
It’s good to see Reason documenting the horrors of socialism. Although it’s really odd that the Biden administration removed terrorist designations from FARC (then opened the border) & Houthis. Libertarians can’t have it both ways, writing the horrors of terrorists/socialism and then call for open borders into the Democratic Socialists of America, ever expanding socialist welfare state.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/biden-administration-remove-houthis-terrorist-list-reversing-another-trump-policy-n1256923
The dangers of socialism are not carried like a virus by immigrants, so your equation is rejected summarily! The problem of creeping socialism in America was not imported, it is home-grown and can only succeed when Americans refuse to enforce the Constitution on their elected and appointed officials. Large numbers of Americans, not all of them socialist, have bought into the fantasies of the socialists and abandoned liberty. Don't blame "open borders" for that - look in the mirror!
Much like Californians moving to Texas and then trying to “turn the state blue”, never considering that the blueness of California is why they had to leave, I think it can be both home grown AND imported.
70%+ immigrants voting for the socialist party. No not all of them are true believers in socialism but MOST (70%) are. The border security filter is obviously FAILING.
The dangers of socialism are in the creation of the world’s most populous easily gamed welfare state. Opening the borders into it, is the nail in the coffin.
You've been taken for a fool if someone has convinced you that closing borders is going to prevent America's young people from drifting further to the left. If you're not an idiot, think for yourself. If you are an idiot then there's not much advice I can offer. Maybe take up gardening.
It's a 20% voting statistic. So take your foolery somewhere else.
"It’s a 20% voting statistic."
What is?
“closing borders is going to prevent America’s young people from drifting further to the left” - suffering ADDS today or what?
You're not making any sense. Perhaps you should get one of your parents or a teacher to check your sentences to make sure they are coherent.
It's not my fault your stupid. Let me try this in baby-talk... Voting statistics show by a 20% margin that closing the borders would prevent America's voting young from drifting further to the left.
you're
lol... You're more than welcome to correct my spelling if you find it so disturbing.
Your poor spelling is the least of your problems. You need to work on clear thinking and expressing your ideas on paper. Don't assume that readers know what's on your mind.
"The horrors of socialism"
Well, yes, but socialism is not the only one to cause horrors.
Remember Bangladesh? What the Pakistanis did? Were the Pakistanis socialists?
Timor? The Indonesian military were not socialists
The Armenian genocide? The Sultan of Turkey was not a socialist
The Congo? Leopold of Belgium was just driven by the profit motive to chop off little children hands.
If you think that by forbidding socialism you are making the world safe from massacres and other atrocities, think again.
Sorry, but I politely disagree. Pogroms and genocide are not rooted in ideas. They are rooted in human nature; ideas are simply the excuses that trigger the catastrophe. Almost all humans are a mixture of primal instinctive emotions overlaid by intelligent, rational, enlightened self-interest and, occasionally, altruism. When the conditions are right, the rational prevails over the instinctive. People realize that peace and prosperity are best achieved by ignoring differences and by cooperating with others for our mutual benefit. When conditions deteriorate – as they do in natural disasters, famines, droughts, wars and economic downturns - the instinctive starts to take over. People become defensive, suspicious, sometimes fearful and subject to the button-pushing of demagogues. They latch onto scapegoats and violent emotions start to spread throughout whole regions in response to the “ideas” used as tools by those who crave power.
It's the the idea of Altruism that brought about all mass murders in history, including The Holocaust, The Holodolmar, and The Killing Fields.
If the individual must be sacrificed to some so-called "higher" good, as Altruism demands, then who gets sacrificed is just a matter of details and time and place.
And no idea of humans is hard-wired. As the song from South Pacific says: "You Have to Be Carefully Taught."
So when the Assyrians, the Persians, Alexander, the Romans, slaughterd entire towns, they were motivated by altruism?
History does not begin in the Roman Empire, you realize.
The Emperors of those empires certa8nly demanded self-sacrifice of their citizens, soldiers, and subjugated peoples.
The Emperor demanded obedience, and could enforce it. It does not take self-sacrifice to obey someone who can flay you alive, just prudence. And Emperors were not precisely altruistic.
And why were they Emperors? Well, for all their unpleasant characteristics, they kept the peace inside their realms. It meant that a village could not make a raid on a neighboring village to steal their food, or to avenge a slight, or for any other reasons.
There is a telling scene in a novel called "Black Ships" in which refugees from the Trojan Wars (a retelling of the Aeneid) come to Egypt, and are astonished that as their ships travel the Nile, the inhabitants look on them with curiosity, without interrupting their labors, instead of running away, hiding, and looking for their weapons. That's what Empires are for.
Ideas are not hardwired, but instincts are. And instincts react faster than thoughts (the neural parthway is shorter). and thoughts then serve to explain to ourselves why we react that way.
There is an instict towards what you call "collectivism" which is to seek safety in a group. A perceived danger is a trigger for it - which is why cult leaders have an "us vs them" narrative with the corollary "they are coming to take us what we prize", thus making their followers more dependent on them.
There's a great documentary I'd like to recommend called Don't Think I've Forgotten about the Cambodian music scene told from the perspective of the artists and families about the rise of the Khmer Rouge. Trailer is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipq4FefX5Ps
It's no like Cambodia had a Holocaust. I doubt many if any Jews were victims of the Killing Fields.
Democide is Democide! Mass murder is mass murder and plain old murder is murder!
The only reason the Holocaust is unique is because mass murder is unique and because plain old murder is unique in the context of human relations! And the only reason these are unique is because individual human lives are unique!
Dummy!
The Holocaust was unique in that it happened to Europeans, "civilized" people. Mass slaughter of "savages" or "primitives" was par for the course then.
" I doubt many if any Jews were victims of the Killing Fields."
Cambodia's Muslim population suffered disproportionately under the KR, if it's any consolation.
None of it is a consolation, you Watermelon Rickshaw Nazi Boy! Taking the life of any peaceful person--even if their ideas are fucked up--is murder!
"Hey man.... It wasn't their fault. It was those other 'icky' people's fault.", repeats the [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s] who will never accept the blatant FACT staring them right in the face. They are the Nazi's.
The label is but an acronym. So it was coined in Germany. Big F'En deal; it's not like it doesn't mean the same anywhere else.
What wasn't whose fault?
what: pol pots atrocities
whose fault: repeats the [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s]
I swear....
You need to polish up your English composition skills. Ask a parent of teacher to help if you can. For my part, I advise you not to automatically assume your reader knows what's on your mind. Think of the reader as someone whom you need to fill in on the details, no matter how obvious they are to you. A second piece of advice is to read what you've written a second time over before posting with the above considerations in mind.
Or maybe the reader could 'think' before asking what is obviously right there in the comment.
Don't assume that everything you write is 'obvious.' Try to read what you've written critically, putting yourself in the place a naive stranger reading you for the first time.
By the way, do you remember that it was another Communists, the Vietnamese who got rid of Pol Pot?
But then the Vietnamese were more nationalistic than communist, or rather they had a pragmatic attitude towards it. They found it useful, they got no help from the US to get rid of the French, but got help from the USSR. That old communist stooge, Generalissimo Francisco Franco said as much to Johnson.
After Hun Sen and the Vietnamese chased out the KR, Reagan refused to recognize the new regime and insisted that Pol Pot was the rightful ruler of Cambodia. This continued until the lead up to Gulf War I, when G H W Bush, getting his diplomatic ducks in a row, was forced to recognize reality, and Hun Sen, and finally drop Pol Pot.
Yes. Reagan did believe in human rights, did he? So what if Pol Pot was a murderous thug, realpolitik meant that he should be kept in power.
Narratives are seductive by design. Perfect logic, disastrous outcomes.
Note to foreign readers. Pol Pot ideals were altruistic. Everyone except republicans understand that "radical" simply means consistent.
Purple grain hectare.
It is interesting to read the back and forth on Israel-Gaza in the comments in regard to the Khmer Rouge genocide. The current situation is a war so not appropriate IMO. Not to excuse the warring parties and the policies for nearly a century on both sides that led to the current situation. Still so much hate clearly on both sides of the argument. A regional conflict with no real strategic benefit to most of the world. What is the corresponding death toll around the world in other conflicts? No grand Reason comment fest. Curious, no?
"A regional conflict with no real strategic benefit to most of the world. "
That flies in the face of half a century of continuing US intervention in the oil rich region. It's also a region that features several choke points on vital trade routes.