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Politics

DeSantis, Haley Highlight the Republican Party's Deeply Unserious Approach to Social Security

A decade ago, DeSantis was supporting real efforts at reforming Social Security. Now, he's refusing to even acknowledge the problem.

Eric Boehm | 1.11.2024 2:45 PM

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DeSantis and Haley next to each other on the debate stage | Kyle Mazza/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom
(Kyle Mazza/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom)

As a member of Congress a decade ago, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis recognized the seriousness of the crisis facing Social Security.

Between 2013 and 2015, DeSantis voted multiple times for budget plans crafted by then-Speaker of the House Paul Ryan (R–Wis.) that, among other things, aimed to raise the Social Security retirement age to 70 and make changes to how cost-of-living adjustments for Social Security beneficiaries are calculated. Those proposals never won majority support in Congress, but they were prudent, fiscally conservative proposals that would have helped postpone Social Security's quickly approaching insolvency.

That might as well be ancient history from the perspective of the 2024 Republican primary. During Wednesday's debate in Iowa, DeSantis and former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley clashed over Social Security—with DeSantis accusing Haley of supporting some of the same changes that he once actually voted for and promising not to "mess with seniors' benefits."

As Reason has pointed out repeatedly, promising to not touch Social Security is essentially a promise to cut benefits. When insolvency hits in 2033, Social Security will be able to pay out only 77 percent of promised benefits, according to the most recent assessment by the board of trustees that oversees Social Security.

Confronted with his about-face on raising the retirement age, DeSantis said Wednesday that he now opposes an increase because average life expectancy has declined in recent years.

That's a bit of a red herring, as Brian Riedl, a former Senate budget staffer and current Manhattan Institute fiscal expert, pointed out on X (formerly Twitter). Overall life expectancy has dipped in recent years—due to the pandemic and other factors—but the relevant factor for Social Security is life expectancy at age 65. For Americans who reach retirement age, life expectancy continues to rise.

Even if that weren't true, however, declining life expectancy wouldn't prevent Social Security's insolvency—so, at best, this is not an answer to the actual problem.

Despite her many well-documented awful opinions on foreign policy, Haley is undeniably the most clear-eyed candidate when it comes to fiscal and entitlement policy. "Social Security is going to go bankrupt in 10 years," she said Wednesday night. "We have to keep our promises to seniors, but we also can't put our heads in the sand."

While that would have been a mainstream Republican view before 2016, Haley now finds herself under attack by other candidates simply because she's the only one willing to point out that doing nothing isn't an option.

That dynamic caused some bizarre exchanges between the two candidates on Wednesday. For example, at one point Haley framed DeSantis' shifting positions on Social Security as being shady. "Now, suddenly, he's going to tell you, because he's running for president, he's not going to [raise the retirement age]. You can't trust him," she argued.

The subtext there, however, undermines her own position: It makes it sound like raising the retirement age is a bad idea that DeSantis is trying to keep secret from the voters—instead of being a prudent, fiscally responsible idea that she supports.

At another point during the exchange, DeSantis attacked Haley for calling Social Security an entitlement. There's a nugget of truth there: Social Security isn't truly an entitlement because (as the Supreme Court has ruled) workers have no contractual right to any of the promised benefits. The idea that you've paid into the system and therefore have earned some reward after retirement is utterly false.

But that's not what DeSantis was trying to argue. Instead, he's essentially adopted a left-wing talking point that's meant to make it harder to confront the real problems with Social Security's structure and cash flow. The argument itself is internally incoherent: Social Security isn't an entitlement, because you've paid into it and are therefore…well, entitled to benefits?

In all, that segment of the debate served as a useful and telling example of the Republican Party's fundamental unseriousness when it comes to Social Security. And don't expect anything better from the race's frontrunner, former President Donald Trump, who helped usher in the current GOP confusion about Social Security when he broke with longstanding conservative views on the program in 2016.

Trump remains a leading voice within the faction of Republicans promising to make no changes to Social Security, even as its insolvency nears. "We will always protect Social Security and Medicare for our great seniors," Trump reiterated at a rally last month, where he accused DeSantis of wanting to "knock the hell out of" Social Security.

Meanwhile, it's no secret that DeSantis has evolved into a very different kind of Republican since his time as a congressional backbencher during the so-called "tea party" era—a transition that I detailed at greater length in a Reason cover story last year. There's possibly no topic where that change is more obvious than Social Security policy, where DeSantis has abandoned even a willingness to acknowledge the problems facing the old-age entitlement program.

You might think of him as the personal embodiment of how the GOP has changed from the Ryan era to the Trump years: out with fiscal responsibility and economic policy, in with culture wars and telling voters whatever they want to hear.

It's impossible to have a useful conversation about the true cost of saving Social Security—likely to be some politically unpalatable mix of huge tax increases and benefit cuts—if candidates can't even agree on the very real problem. That means we're even farther away from the conversation that ought to be happening instead: how to free workers from this massive, mandatory Ponzi scheme that's robbing their ability to save for their own retirements.

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NEXT: Milei Wants Argentina To Take Back the Falkland Islands

Eric Boehm is a reporter at Reason.

PoliticsSocial SecurityRetirementEntitlementsRon DeSantisNikki HaleyElection 2024IowaDebates
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  1. Chumby   1 year ago

    Allow opting out of the ponzi scheme.

    1. Dillinger   1 year ago

      if I can find 100 friends willing to find 100 friends each who all want it dead ...

      1. SammyKacey   1 year ago (edited)

        Read the following report to learn how a single-mom with 3 kids was able to generate $89,844 of annual Q income working in her spare time online from her home without selling...
        For More Visit Here....> http://Www.Smartcareer1.com

    2. Stuck in California   1 year ago

      I remember Bush tried to do that, it didn't go over well. And his idea to was to not even completely do so. Just let you take a small part and invest it under your control, and it was your money you got to keep, etc.

      Holy shit the backlash from the dems and media was insane. Trying their hardest to convince people this meant they'd lose their life savings in a down market, they'd have no retirement, etc. Kind of the beginning of the 21st century hyper partisanship, actually.

      1. Dillinger   1 year ago

        shame it was left to that knucklehead.

        1. VULGAR MADMAN   1 year ago

          I want to hear the “serious” democrat position on social security.

          1. CE   1 year ago

            It's always the same, raise taxes. On the rich. Until they run out of rich people, or run them off. Then it's raise taxes on anyone with a job.

            1. markm23   1 year ago

              No, the Democrats don't raise taxes on the rich, because the ones running the party are rich. If they don't start off rich, they enrich themselves quickly once they get power. For example, a few years ago, AOC was a barista who couldn't see how she was going to be able to get an apartment in DC, but now she's a multimillionaire - and she hasn't even reached the real power centers.

              Democrats pretend to raise taxes on the rich, but actually raise taxes on the middle class, while providing a thicket of new tax shelters for themselves and the other rich folks. They feel guilty about that, so they pretend to help the poor with socialist programs - but socialism doesn't actually help the poor, other than the few poor like AOC, that gain connections they can use to lift themselves into a privileged elite.

        2. B G   1 year ago

          Shame he was pitching it right after a huge stock market/tech stock bubble had popped (something which much of the MSM blamed on his policies despite it having started before he was even nominated to run for the office). Even worse, at the time the media narrative was that there had never been a bubble at all and that the "W tax cuts" had simply destroyed a huge amount of "real" wealth by squandering the "surplus" which Bill C had allegedly created in between trips to jailbait island.

          Trying to convince a Dem in 2002 that there had ever been a bubble in the 1990s stock markets was almost as hard as convincing a them in 1998 that White House interns are at some level subordinate to the President.

      2. CE   1 year ago

        And yet if W had succeeded in partially privatizing SS, everyone would be somewhat better off now.

        1. Stuck in California   1 year ago

          That's kind of the point.

          There's a lot more to it, obviously, as the influx of cash into the stock market would affect things, but pretending similar performance my index funds have massively outperformed the equivalent return I'd get on SS. The market, historically, always does around 8(ish) percent annualized returns. It's extremely regular at about 10% on average.

          Actually, I just took quick look of the 30 year, like my personal investment lifetime from '92 to '22 (Dec 22 was also not a great year) shows over 7.5% for the S&P adjusted for inflation. WAY better than SS.

      3. Pear Satirical   1 year ago

        "Holy shit the backlash from the dems and media was insane."

        And that's the problem; the media is in the tank for the Dems and the Republicans are too spineless to fight back. It's one of the reasons Trump is so successful, he's actually willing to fight back and give as good (if not better) as he gets.

    3. JesseAz   1 year ago

      Isn't this the magazine that has advocated multiple times ACA can't end if it isnt replaced with an equivalent program?

      1. VULGAR MADMAN   1 year ago

        Indeed it is.

        1. Michael Ejercito   1 year ago

          Why not just end the ACA outright?

          1. Social Justice is neither   1 year ago

            Not Suderman's view of State run Libertarianism.

          2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo   1 year ago

            We almost did. John McCain shit all over that because of his temper tantrum.

    4. Carlos Inconvenience   1 year ago

      Todays installment of “ the Libertarian case to vote Democrat.”

      1. B G   1 year ago

        How does the "Libertarian case to vote Democrat" consist of the fact that the GOP candidates in the primary have all abandoned their past positions to the extent that those differed from the DNC/MSM "party line" of the only acceptable position on SS (that it can't go insolvent and there's never been a problem with its basic structure)?

        I could see this as a case to not vote major party (even "strategically" for those in competitive states), but since it's an issue where there's no real differentiation between the parties, except for maybe the Dems' pretense that eliminating the SS witholding cap could somehow fix the whole of the structural problem; never mind that such a change would only slightly increase taxes on a tiny fraction of workers and possibly lead some others to re-structure their incomes in a way that could potentially render the change net revenue-negative and exacerbate the problem.

    5. Santa_Cruzer   1 year ago

      SS brings us a social benefit: as an explicit intergenerational compact (the working support the elderly), it is the bookend to our societal commitment to the care and education of the young. It is part of being humane. It is good to help, and it is likewise good for even the fairly wealthy to get a monthly reminder they some dependence on their fellow Americans. These commitments should help bind us as Americans.

      And suppose "opt out" let people make bad investments - then when they are 70 and unemployed, are we happy to let them be poverty-stricken and bereft of dignity? Is that our American Dream? Or would we just rather they eat poorly, live in the cold, and end up in Emergency Rooms and on street corners? No, we would still "do something" but it would be chaotic, unreliable, embarrassing, and expensive.

      IMO we probably over-protect the top end of SS recipients and should rebalance the paid benefits to send more of the money to the poorer segments, but nonetheless we we should not let people "opt out" of being part of this American social compact, we should not take the long-term risks of depending on stressed humans to make wise long-term investments, and we should not plaster denigrating (and inaccurate) phrases like "Ponzi scheme" on this mechanism for ensuring at least moderate dignity and stability to our elders.

  2. sarcasmic   1 year ago

    How dare anyone talk about Social Security and Medicare recipients old people who vote when illegals are bankrupting the nation!!!!!!

    1. Mother's Lament   1 year ago

      Not going to get any bites when your bait is that retarded.

      1. SQRLSY One   1 year ago

        Wait, wait, wait!!! Der TrumpfenFarter-Fuhrer has the FIX for us, that has worked SOOOO well for Him and His Family, and His 6 stiffings of His debtors, via bankruptcy!!! A partial repudiation of USA debt will work WONDERS for us all!!!

        https://investorplace.com/2023/05/why-donald-trump-is-pushing-for-a-u-s-debt-default/

        Why Donald Trump Is Pushing For a U.S. Debt Default
        Trump is advocating for default amid debt ceiling negotiations

        Good faith and credit?!?! Credit, schmedit!!! Who needs shit?!?!?

        1. VULGAR MADMAN   1 year ago

          Speaking of retards…

          1. SQRLSY One   1 year ago

            I'm glad to see that you FINALLY see that Der TrumpfenFarter-Fuhrer IS yea verily a retard!

            1. VULGAR MADMAN   1 year ago

              Don’t talk about your momma like that!

      2. JesseAz   1 year ago

        He has been looking for a hit of victim hood to mainline all day.

        1. SQRLSY One   1 year ago

          JesseBahnFarter-Fuhrer and Mammary-Necrophilia-Farter-Fuhrer and the Rethugglican Church are THE Biggest Victims of ALL! We should ALL cry for them!

          “Fuck Joe Biden!”, they demand, over and over and over again! And that fat old geezer, Joe Biden… He is SUCH a BIG Meanie!!! He NEVER lets them fuck him!!! How greedy and selfish can he get, anyway?!?!?

          1. VULGAR MADMAN   1 year ago

            You make me miss white Indian.
            Jebus.

            1. sarcasmic   1 year ago

              Remember Agile Cyborg?

              Didn't think so.

              He migrated away from this planet with the Cybermen or something.

      3. sarcasmic   1 year ago (edited)

        Saying illegals on welfare are bankrupting the country is about as honest as saying eliminating the military would balance the budget. It’s playing the fiddle while Rome burns, and makes you as honest as the leftists you hate. You’re smart enough to understand (I would never accuse JA, Dlam or Big Mac of that). Which means you're a liar.

        1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo   1 year ago

          Fuck off drunky. You’re too big of a pussy to talk tough.

          1. sarcasmic   1 year ago

            Sorry. Next time I'll try to remember to put you in the list of dumbasses.

    2. shadydave   1 year ago

      What note is that exactly? B-flat? G-sharp? I know it's only one note, but I'm not sure what note it is.

  3. I, Woodchipper   1 year ago

    EVERY politician has an unserious approach to social security.

    Social Security itself was and always has been an unserious thing.

    1. GroundTruth   1 year ago

      Au contraire, Pierre.... Social Security has always been a very serious thing. The chatter about it has always been pure BS, and not the useful sort that make rhubarb grow fat and sweet.

  4. Truthteller1   1 year ago

    So what? As if the democrats have a serious approach.

  5. I, Woodchipper   1 year ago

    the social security question is going to resolve itself no matter what any of these venal stupid politicians plan or say.

  6. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   1 year ago

    It's Big Government Trumpism. Donnie has said America is greatest when the government is handing out checks to residents.

    1. Chumby   1 year ago

      Denny Hastert Jr, turn yourself in to authorities.

    2. Mother's Lament   1 year ago

      Buttplug said that the government is the greatest when it's run by Democrats in the pockets of old Nazi financiers.

      1. VULGAR MADMAN   1 year ago

        Maybe there’s a certain segment of the population he wants to get rid of.

        1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo   1 year ago

          Probably the ones who won’t let him fuck children.

  7. Longtobefree   1 year ago

    I fully support just ending social security, as soon as I get my last check and die.

    1. CE   1 year ago

      Any time before that is fine by me, as well.

  8. Gaear Grimsrud   1 year ago

    So social security will be insolvent in 2033. Hmm. By any rational measure the US Treasury is bankrupt right now. The petrodollar is pretty much toast. And the reserve currency status of the dollar is way past it's due date. Nixon "temporarily" defaulted on the federal debt half a century ago. Now Biden wants to give Russia's dollar reserves to the criminal regime in Ukraine. You wouldn't know it from reading Reason but using the dollar as a weapon is raising some eyebrows internationally. Maybe investing in US treasury bonds is not such a great idea. And if nobody buys our junk bonds how will we pay for the New Green Grift? Let alone "entitlements". Could SS be reformed if the democrats stopped screeching about their secular deity FDR and their beloved social contract? Sure. But if you're not fully bought in to MMT it's just more rearranging of the deck chairs.

    1. MWAocdoc   1 year ago

      Bring it on! I am not counting on social security and neither should you. The program was a scam since shortly after it was first implemented and anyone who doesn't know that deserves what they get. Hell, most of those people voted for it and would be angry if their elected officials ended or modified it.

      1. Zeb   1 year ago

        Yeah, at this point I'll take that hit. Just kill it. Most people will do better with cash in a pillow case (or maybe gold and silver). Have some welfare for truly impoverished elderly folk if you must do something.

      2. GroundTruth   1 year ago

        I've done a fair amount of retirement planning for my self, and I've always assumed that at some point SS would have to be trimmed by about 1/3.

        SS won't be ended, there would be riots in DC to make Jan 6 look like a tea part, but the politicians will figure out some new way to convince the masses that one egg is the same as two and the masses will buy it for a bit longer.

      3. TryLogic   1 year ago

        Doesn't this attitude kind of presuppose that if you killed off SS, your US dollars would still have value? If the SS system goes down the tubes, it's not a crazy idea to believe the US dollar would follow it. So before you get too excited about killing it off, you might want to convert those paper notes to something with actual intrinsic value, just to be sure you've got a solid fall back position. Old people might be old, but they own guns, too. And they have less life to lose if you bankrupt them all. It won't be pretty. J6 would look like the rowdy protest at your kid's birthday party next to a bunch of old vets with rifles... well that's actually a bad example, since J6 did look like a rowdy protest at some kid's birthday party.

        1. GroundTruth   1 year ago

          Most of the older folks that I know seem to get more complacent. It'd be the 40 somethings halfway into the system who might go berzerk.

          1. CLM1227   1 year ago

            Speaking for the ones I know, none of us are banking in SS. But allowing my generation to opt out 10 years ago would have allowed SS to be done now.

            Democrats and their media lapdogs are poison.

        2. MWAocdoc   1 year ago

          Well, no I don't think so. First off I'm not talking about "killing off" social security, I'm talking about what is likely to happen in the absence of a sudden outbreak of Congressional fiscal responsibility. Secondly, the separate issue of the sudden loss of value of the US Dollar is not necessarily tied to the failure at some point of the Social Security system. In fact, it's more likely that the dollar would gain value and security if SS failed. And finally, a sudden shift from the dollar to gold would bid the price of gold up dramatically, defeating the purpose, with no guarantee that your berserk neighbors would trade their production for your gold. I've always felt that if it ALL falls apart we're screwed anyway, so why waste your time now becoming a survivalist?

    2. CE   1 year ago

      Just make SS part of the regular budget, and borrow more, like every other program. It's perhaps the most politically popular handout, why not just admit it?

      1. Gaear Grimsrud   1 year ago

        Yes. You are correct. The idea that SS is somehow segregated from the general fund is just repeating the same propaganda that FDR used to sell the scheme in the first place. Which leads to idiots like Eric worrying about "insolvency". The trust fund is nothing but an accounting entry that the taxpayers owe to themselves. It is now and has always been worth exactly zero. It is an asset and a liability as it was designed to be. I can remember senate SS hearings back when politicians like Bush and Gore at least pretended to give a shit about the national debt. The experts all agreed that the only way to save the program was to pay down the debt. That of course has not happened. Quite the opposite in fact. The only asset the government holds to pay for SS or anything else is the full faith and credit of the US treasury an institution that is bankrupt. Even the credit agencies are downgrading it's investment value. SS won't be reformed but it really doesn't matter. When investors stop buying our debt the whole house of cards will collapse.

  9. Bill Dalasio   1 year ago

    I have to admit that it's pretty funny to see a magazine that, a few years ago, was shopping around UBI having hissy fits about the Republicans not doing away with Social Security. And even there, targeting the party that might be the more inclined to do something.

    1. P. Henry   1 year ago

      To be fair, they were touting UBI as an efficiency move, under the assumption other entitlements would end. A dumb assumption.

      1. Pear Satirical   1 year ago

        When you assume you make an ass out of me and you.

    2. CE   1 year ago

      Reason as weathervane.... how much liberty will leftists let us talk about, and still like us?

      The sad part is the leftists will never like them anyway, they may as well stand on principle.

  10. johngray0   1 year ago (edited)

    Old people vote. Old people don’t give 2 bleeps about being welfare deadbeats–though they’d never call themselves that. Old people don’t give 2 bleeps about eating their young. SS will go broke.

    1. MWAocdoc   1 year ago (edited)

      As an old person I resent your generalization! I am currently accepting Social Security payments even though I’m still earning a good full-time salary because I HAVE NO CHOICE! The SSA sent me repeated, threatening letters telling me that at a certain age I had to apply for benefits or risk fines and penalties. Likewise Medicare. All it would take to fix that would be to change Social Security income to "means tested" and remove any fines or penalties if you don't want to double-dip.

      1. P. Henry   1 year ago

        There are no fines or penalties for not taking Social Security when you can. You just get less in benefits. True for Medicare though.

      2. sarcasmic   1 year ago

        Even means testing is bull.

        If you're financially responsible and don't have a load of debt, you're going to be kicked in the balls compared to someone with the same income who is still making payments on shit they couldn't afford.

    2. BYODB   1 year ago

      Keep in mind that people who are drawing social security paid into the system thus it is an actual 'entitlement' as the government took your money away from you thus removing your agency to do something else with that cash.

      Calling them 'welfare deadbeats' is lying or ignorance. Both is an option.

      That's no good reason to keep it around, but it's also obvious the fund is full of IOU's so the government simply can't pay people what they owe so they keep trudging along to insolvency so that reality will achieve what politics can not.

      1. GroundTruth   1 year ago

        it is an actual ‘entitlement’

        Nope, it is not. SCOTUS Flemming v. Nestor in 1960 ruled otherwise. Congress can revise (i.e. reduce or terminate) the benefits as it sees fit.

        Note that I am not agreeing with the ruling, just reporting it.

        1. markm23   1 year ago

          SS is a perfect illustration of your status under government guns: You earned it, but you're not entitled to it.

      2. MWAocdoc   1 year ago

        Well, not exactly. Most of them paid at least something into at some point during their lives; and it's true that the SSA sends out regular reports to people who qualify for benefits with some kind of calculation relating what they paid in to what they might get back at some point. But any pretense that the "system" has a fund with all the money you paid in identified as yours that you can start taking back out again is just silly.

      3. P. Henry   1 year ago

        They took some money from you. But for the average recipient they took less than will be received. But you’re right it’s not an entitlement in the way we think of it, since we were forced into it.

        1. Fats of Fury   1 year ago

          Don't forget to count in inflation to what you're getting back. The Dollar now is one tenth of what it was when I started working. Also people who have additional income have their ss taxed. The rate hasn't changed since it was implemented in the eighties.
          From the SSA
          You must pay taxes on up to 85% of your Social Security benefits if you file a:
          Federal tax return as an “individual” and your “combined income” exceeds $25,000.
          Joint return, and you and your spouse have “combined income” of more than $32,000.

          If you are married and file a separate return, you probably will have to pay taxes on your benefits

          1. Gaear Grimsrud   1 year ago

            Taxing the rich hahahahaha!

      4. CE   1 year ago (edited)

        FICA is a payroll tax, transferring money from young working people to wealthier, older people at leisure. Of course, those older people were victims of the con themselves while they were working.

        The correct response to finding a Ponzi scheme isn’t to figure out how to shore it up, it’s to shut it down, jail the perpetrators, sell off any remaining assets, and split them up on a pro-rata basis to those who were previously conned.

        1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

          Social Security is a way of transferring wealth from young Black men to old white women.

        2. Gaear Grimsrud   1 year ago

          There are no assets to sell. Never have ben, never will be.

      5. TW   1 year ago (edited)

        "Keep in mind that people who are drawing social security paid into the system thus it is an actual ‘entitlement’ as the government took your money away from you thus removing your agency to do something else with that cash."

        You've just described every government program that people are forced to pay for with their tax dollars. And you're not "owed" anything" from tem either.

    3. Roberta   1 year ago

      No, I've thought for a long tie that old people even would call themselves that — that they'd cackle, "I'm a welfare deadbeat, stealing from you, and there's nothing you can do about it, bwahahahaha!" Seriously, I think they'd revel in their villainy.

      1. CE   1 year ago

        The SS system was started because old people back then were too proud to apply for public aid. Very few people are too proud to take handouts these days.

        1. Social Justice is neither   1 year ago

          They'd also had their actual savings stolen and there were far fewer of them per xapita.

  11. MWAocdoc   1 year ago

    "It makes it sound like raising the retirement age is a bad idea"

    It does nothing of the kind. The way I interpret the point (and the way the author should have interpreted it) is that it's a GOOD idea that we should not trust DeSantis to implement.

    1. CE   1 year ago

      The retirement age is already 67. How long do they think people can work? Most are finished in the 62 to 65 range, regardless of when SS funds are available to withdraw.

      1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

        Even if they are willing and able to work, very few employers will hire people over 55 or 60, especially if they don't currently have jobs. If you find yourself unemployed for a few months and you're over 55, then your days in the workforce are over, unless you have some rare, high-demand skills or experience.

        1. Gaear Grimsrud   1 year ago

          I will personally testify to the accuracy of this comment.

  12. Dillinger   1 year ago

    the only serious approach to Social Security is to permit my part in killing it.

  13. Stephen   1 year ago

    This s article misses everything relevant.

    When the SS “Trust Fund” goes broke, Congress can and will vote to pay benefits out of general tax funds.

    Christie and Haley both OUTRAGEOUSLY call for either immediate (Christie) or the youngest workers will be denied benefits they paid for because Congress fears the mob of poorer people.

    Instead the young should be subjected to a NEW SS, whereby their + employer contributions are paid into an IRA for the employee. No stealing from others.

    SS Disability and SSI should be immediately ended as to new recipients. And all current recipients must be required to meet very robust work requirements, as should ALL recipients of ALL welfare programs (Medicare -$750B, food stamps, etc c, etc, etc.

    And immediately repeal Earned Income Tax Credits and Child Tax Credits.

    Then we can meet our current obligations.,

    1. Social Justice is neither   1 year ago

      The IOUs in that trust fund are decades of the general fund "borrowing" from the SS balance sheet. Every reduction in the net surplus of SS or reduction in it's "assets" requires more borrowing or the fanciful reduced spending. By the time the trust fund "goes broke" payments of the debt will eat the entire economy.

  14. Leftshot   1 year ago

    Solving the Social Security 'problem' is easy. If the monies taxed into SS were invested conservatively the average citizen would receive 4 times the amount they get through SS and would leave a residual in their estate of over $600,000 (all 2023 dollars. Thus it would be easy to design a phase-out of SS over time by allowing citizens to divert an increasing over time percentage of their SS payroll tax to an IRA or Roth account. A properly designed program would cover all current SS obligations while being a net gain to each participating citizen.

    The 'problem' with this plan is what most freedom-loving Americans would consider a feature. It doesn't put the government in control of 15% of our income and the bulk of our retirement.

    1. markm23   1 year ago

      Did you just seriously propose a Federal Bureau of Investments? Can you imagine how much money that would lose?

  15. JFree   1 year ago

    Republican Party's Deeply Unserious Approach to Social Security

    I'm shocked. And stunned

    1. MWAocdoc   1 year ago (edited)

      "I'm shocked to discover that the peasants are demanding bread! Shocked, I tell you!" ... “Your Congressional pension check, Sir!” … “Thank you!”

  16. Bowerick Wowbagger   1 year ago

    actually talking reasonably and realistically about SS is a surefire way to ensure you won't be elected. I don't blame anyone for not doing it. I wish they would, but understand why they don't.

    Why should one party acknowledge economic realities when the other doesn't? Particularly when they aren't rewarded for it.

    1. Gaear Grimsrud   1 year ago

      This guy gets it.

    2. MWAocdoc   1 year ago (edited)

      I would agree with you except for what that reveals about career politicians. When a lawyer gets tired of eking out a living by writing wills and contracts and negotiating divorces, the obvious career move is politics. Rubbing elbows with the rich and powerful celebrities is a much nicer way to earn a living than chasing ambulances!

    3. CountmontyC   1 year ago

      Not only not rewarded for it but punished for it. When Republicans try to reform social security the Democrats run ads showing whoever is the Republican leader throwing grandma off of a cliff ( literally) and the leftist morons in the media treat that as a serious allegation. So now social security will at some point at least partially default ( I expect when the shit hits the fan they will simply pay vastly reduced benefits).

  17. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

    Social Security will not be reformed or replaced. It will be one of the anchors dragging us down when our society collapses. Be prepared to survive on a Mad Max landscape, or to end your life when necessary. It's too late to stop it.

    1. middlefinger   1 year ago

      So true. I read ten articles yesterday about how any form of federal spending negotiations or even minor cuts to spending will automatically kill poor people.

      1. Social Justice is neither   1 year ago

        Implement the Swift solution (not Taylor).

  18. Corey   1 year ago

    I've been paying 15.3% of my income into this stupid SS+medicare Ponzi scam for almost 40 years. Give me my fucking money. I'll also accept some nice acreage of (build-able) national park land. Or how about you make me whole with a transferable tax-credit representing the amount I paid in, that I can use myself, bequeath to my heirs, or sell to someone else? If you're not going to honor the deal, give me back the money.

    1. MWAocdoc   1 year ago

      Bwaaaaahahahahahahaaaaaa ....

    2. MWAocdoc   1 year ago

      "Yessir! We'll print you up a fresh batch of greenbacks, toot sweet!"

      1. VULGAR MADMAN   1 year ago

        Since they can apparently print unlimited amounts, why not?

        1. MWAocdoc   1 year ago (edited)

          Good point, but it’s only “apparently” so far. People talk about “tipping points” and no one now alive knows when the tipping point of hyperinflation will be reached. The delusion that it won’t happen soon because people have been predicting it for a long time but it hasn’t happened yet – kicking the can down the road for the next generation to deal with – playing musical chairs hoping they won’t be in office when the catastrophe occurs – whistling past the graveyard – etc.

    3. CE   1 year ago

      They made the "deal" with me when I was 16 (i.e. a minor) and under duress, because I couldn't get a job without signing up. Then they unilaterally changed the promised retirement age from 65 to 67, without asking me to even initial the changes.

  19. CE   1 year ago

    Why would any candidate, in any party, propose a serious solution to the Social Security Ponzi scheme's imminent collapse, when any attempt to cut benefits or increase taxes would mean they would not get elected to implement such a plan?

    Blame the voters.

    1. sarcasmic   1 year ago

      They've been telling me Social Security is about to bust for my entire life. Back when that ancient guy Reagan was going to turn 70 in office. It was the end of the world. They had to add a digit to the debt clock! End of the world!!

      Flash forward and more time has passed since Back to the Future was made than was traveled in the movie.

    2. MWAocdoc   1 year ago

      Although I do blame the voters, the politicians don't get a pass on this either. Even the least cynical lawyer who runs for office the first time with the best of intentions must know, deep in whatever occupies the space where a heart usually beats, that it's a career move, not a self-sacrifice to bring change for the good of The People. Anyone who enters politics as a career either knows that they will have to go along to get along and be absorbed into the collective; or they are willfully ignorant in order to avoid the pain from whatever tiny residual of conscience they have left.

  20. NOYB2   1 year ago

    A decade ago, DeSantis was supporting real efforts at reforming Social Security. Now, he's refusing to even acknowledge the problem. commit political suicide.

    FTFY

    1. MWAocdoc   1 year ago (edited)

      You say that likes it’s an understandable, maybe even laudable, sentiment! I could not care less whether DeSantis commits political suicide in his disgusting career. While I might grudgingly sympathize with a first-time politician who enters the swamp with the best of intentions to push for reform, only to find herself sinking slowly into the ooze and dropping out in disappointment having realized that it was futile in retrospect; I have nothing but contempt for career politicians whose main goal is to fool their constituents by promising them things to get elected and re-elected and rising in the ranks by being better at political games than their competitors.

      1. NOYB2   1 year ago

        DeSantis has said in the past that Social Security needs reforming. All he is doing in the presidential election is not talk about it much because it would hurt his chance of winning. DeSantis is the most likely to actually do something about Social Security among all the candidates.

        I have nothing but contempt for people who think that the way to effect change is to pick the most extreme positions on the most divisive issues and then whine and complain when you get 1% of the vote. That, in a nutshell, is the Libertarian movement.

  21. ElvisP   1 year ago

    So, let benefits reflect tax collections after the “trust funds” run out, i.e., everyone takes a 25% haircut. As the large baby boomer generation gets older and starts dying off, then maybe benefits can be raised again, depending on how much in tax collections are taken in. Perhaps if people knew the system would only be a smaller supplement to their other retirement income, they might be inclined to actually start saving more themselves for retirement.

  22. Social Justice is neither   1 year ago

    Fuck off with this hack job. Where is your demand that Democrats tackle this problem in a serious manner? Or is their complete inability to take responsibility for anything why you are "reluctantly but strategically" all in for them?

  23. Sequel   1 year ago

    There is zero chance that the USA will ever end Social Security.

    There is an excellent chance that the program will be reformed.

    1. DirkT   1 year ago

      If people like you would simply pledge never to take a single SS dollar in old age the rest of us would be okay ...

    2. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

      There is NO chance that SS will be reformed. None.

  24. DirkT   1 year ago

    We must "remember Benghazi" but need to "move on" from J6.

    This is how Magats roll.

  25. DirkT   1 year ago

    Nimrod is a cunt.

    MAGAts will never vote for a person of color or a woman. Never.

    Just wait until they find out what her REAL NAME is.

    1. MasterThief   1 year ago

      Conservatives voted for Palin, not McCain. Conservatives consider Thomas the best SC justice. They like guys like Tim Scott, Larry Elder, Vivek, etc.
      Haley's problem isn't that she's female or Indian. Her problem is that she is establishment and sides with Democrats more than conservatives can tolerate. She is also in favor of casting us into pointless wars when conservatives are hesitant towards war

      1. DirkT   1 year ago

        Palin and Thomas? Are you joking? THAT is all you have?

  26. damikesc   1 year ago (edited)

    OT: In November or December, 7 men in Houston posted videos of themselves raping a 2 and 3 year old in a mall to an Australian site. The FBI was given the footage.

    ONE arrest has been made. The other six --- who were on video --- are free.

    I guess being near DC on 1/6/21 is a worse crime than, hmm, GANG-RAPING TODDLERS.

  27. Crackers64   1 year ago

    While I agree that they are both unserious about this issue, I am not sure anyone in Washington is serious about it. I hear no, not even bad ones, plans coming from either side to fix this uncoming problem. This is something that was set up to fail and sadly its going to fail in spectacular fashion.

    Neither side, including you also, has an actually viable plan to fix the problem. Before you pile on, how about you have your own solution or adopt one from someone.

    Either way, present an actual solution, or sit quietly. I honestly don't care which one you do.

  28. TJJ2000   1 year ago (edited)

    It’s funny people seem surprised their Socialist Security didn’t pan out. As-if that hasn’t been the running record since all of human existence.

    If you loose your S.S. you have no-one to blame but your own Socialist instincts. THEFT is what socialism is all about. If you feel robbed it's because voters LET FDR start the armed-theft [Na]tional So[zi]alist conquering in the first place.

  29. sarcasmic   1 year ago

    ©

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