October 7: A Turning Point for Free Speech?
Restricting speech about the world's most pressing problems does not make them go away, nor does it settle any disputes.

Two hundred and forty-seven years ago last week, General George Washington rallied his beleaguered troops at Valley Forge with a public reading of Thomas Paine's The American Crisis, which reminded them, "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country." Where is Paine now when we need him?
Freedom of speech on American college campuses is now facing great challenges in the aftermath of the October 7 Hamas attacks on Israel and Israel's bombardment of Gaza. According to some, the outpouring of ugly, inexplicable, and vituperative speech unleashed by these events means that now is the time to abandon the concept of free speech at our universities. Apparently, to these "sunshine constitutional scholars," speech can only be free if it is polite and unchallenging.
Without a doubt, the past two and a half months have been a complete shitshow: clueless students excusing butchery and war crimes; feckless university presidents whose past records exhibit little concern for First Amendment limits now invoking the need to protect free expression; and opportunistic politicians who seemingly lack any understanding of constitutional constraints grandstanding their way through the misery and trying to impose plainly unconstitutional restrictions on student speech.
The campus reactions were kicked off with an October open letter from the Harvard Graduate Students for Palestine and the Palestine Solidarity Committee, which began: "We, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence." That opening salvo presaged a tsunami of impassioned rhetoric from all sides of the conflict, with some pro-Palestinian groups praising the October 7 invaders as "martyrs" and chanting slogans like "from the river to the sea Palestine will be free" and "by any means necessary." Others, justifiably horrified at the hostage taking and the atrocities committed in the October attack, responded with harsh rhetoric of their own, sometimes blurring the distinction between condemning the terrorist organization Hamas and attacking all Palestinians.
In this toxic atmosphere, clashes on campus and in the streets have brought to the surface many repulsive ideas, and some actions that go beyond the "uninhibited, robust, and wide-open" debate which "may well include vehement, caustic, and sometimes unpleasantly sharp attacks" that the First Amendment protects. For example, police arrested a Cornell University student for allegedly authoring online posts threatening Jewish students that included the claim he would "bring an assault rifle to campus and shoot all you pig jews." Some pro-Palestinian activists ripped down posters with pictures of hostages held by Hamas. In November, three young Palestinian men were shot and injured near the University of Vermont, an incident federal authorities are investigating as a possible hate crime.
Erwin Chemerinsky, dean of the University of California, Berkeley, Law School and a foremost constitutional scholar, wrote in the Los Angeles Times shortly after the war erupted, "I am a 70-year-old Jewish man, but never in my life have I seen or felt the antisemitism of the last few weeks." Supporting Chemerinsky's sense of things, the Anti-Defamation League documented a 388 percent increase in U.S.-based antisemitic incidents during the first two weeks of the war. At the same time, the Council on American-Islamic Relations found a 216 percent increase in reports of anti-Muslim or anti-Arab bias over the last year.
Ever since Winston Churchill apocryphally said "never let a good crisis go to waste," politicians have clamored for ways to turn misfortune to their advantage. And just as nature abhors a vacuum, officeholders can't stand a missed opportunity—especially if there is a camera nearby. So it came as no surprise when the House Committee on Education and the Workforce convened a televised hearing on December 5 entitled, "Holding Campus Leaders Accountable and Confronting Antisemitism." The "gotcha" moment came when Rep. Elise Stefanik (R–N.Y.) asked the presidents of Harvard University, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), and the University of Pennsylvania whether "calling for the genocide of Jews" violates each university's code of conduct, demanding that each provide "a yes or no answer."
The presidents gave legally correct but tone-deaf responses that the answer was "context-dependent" and that such speech might be actionable if it crossed the line and became misconduct, such as targeted discriminatory harassment. All true, but not a satisfactory answer to a trick question.
Stefanik's query was not presented as an honest attempt to elicit thoughtful responses for how to address a difficult and complex problem, either as it was framed or in its demand for a yes or no answer. Nor was it a serious request for guidance on how to draw the line between angry or hateful speech that the First Amendment protects and the limited and carefully defined categories it does not, such as incitement, true threats, or discriminatory harassment. Rather, she asked whether the school policies permitted "calls for genocide" with the embedded assumption that student chants of "intifada" were the same thing.
The ploy had its intended effect. The three presidents all stumbled into the trap by accepting the unstated premise, thus opening the door to charges that they were insensitive to the demonstrable rise in antisemitism on campus and hypocritical for citing free speech principles when—let's face it—the institutions they lead had shown a notable lack of concern for the First Amendment in the enforcement of their speech codes.
As private schools, Harvard, Penn, and MIT are not bound to follow the First Amendment, but historically they have tried to pay some lip service to it. In practice, however, their records have been abysmal. Harvard and Penn scored at the bottom of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression's (FIRE) latest campus free speech report, and MIT, while in the middle of the pack among the schools surveyed, has a history of selective enforcement against speech it disfavors.
This mix of hypocrisy and insensitivity to the problem prompted an immediate backlash, including a House resolution calling for the ouster of all three presidents. The White House even weighed in with a statement. Within a couple of days, Penn President Liz Magill resigned (along with the chair of the school's board of trustees). "One down, two to go," Stefanik scoffed on X (formerly known as Twitter), although to date, Harvard President Claudine Gay and MIT President Sally Kornbluth have retained their positions.
But the reactions extended far beyond this amateurish episode of performative outrage. How could they not, with this much political gold to mine? In late October, Florida Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis directed the chancellor of the state university system to "deactivate" campus chapters of Students for Justice in Palestine based on the spurious assertion that their advocacy violated state and federal laws against providing material support for terrorists. The state paused its ban of the organization after a warning letter from FIRE (and, reportedly, after consulting its lawyers), but it continues to defend its actions in court.
Meanwhile, New York Democratic Gov. Kathy Hochul sent a letter warning all state university presidents that the state will bring "aggressive enforcement action" against institutions that fail to "address" those who call "for the genocide of any group of people." The governor's letter erroneously asserted that such speech necessarily violates the prohibition of discriminatory harassment prohibited under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act.
But such speech isn't against the law unless the conduct at issue is targeted toward particular students or groups and is "so severe, pervasive, and objectively offensive" that those on the receiving end are effectively denied equal access to an institution's resources and opportunities. Simply espousing hateful ideas doesn't meet this test. Nor does doing so amount to incitement or a "true threat," neither of which the First Amendment protects. It all depends on the context in which such speech was used.
And there it is—context—the word that cost Magill her job. The very mention of it launched Stefanik's theatrical tirade against nuance and her mic-drop conclusion that "this is the easiest question to answer 'yes,' Ms. Magill."
Of course, it is not easy to sit in the spotlight and endure a grilling from a politician in high dudgeon. And Magill might be forgiven for failing to spot the trick in Stefanik's line of questions. But then, one might not be expected to give a good answer to complicated First Amendment questions if you lack a history of defending free expression. And it didn't help that Magill stumbled through her answer with what appeared to be a self-satisfied smile.
What should she have said? Chemerinsky supplied a thoughtful suggestion in the Los Angeles Daily Journal:
"I would have said that advocacy of genocide of Jews is repugnant, blatantly inconsistent with the values of my school, and must be immediately condemned by campus officials. I would have expressed that as a Jew, who had family members perish in the Holocaust, I am especially sensitive to such advocacy. But I also would have said that the First Amendment protects hate speech and allows all ideas and views to be expressed, including deeply offensive ones. Even advocacy of genocide is within the speech protected by the First Amendment. There, however, also is a point at which the advocacy is so pervasive that it becomes harassment or that it may be expressed in such a way that it is a true threat that is unprotected by the First Amendment."
To be fair, Magill and the other university presidents touched on similar themes, but not with Chemerinsky's clarity or consistency.
Some may take issue with the idea that university officials should take a position on such matters as being in tension with the University of Chicago's 1967 Kalven Report, which concluded the "university is the home and sponsor of critics; it is not itself the critic." But Chemerinsky's proposed answer represents one principled and nuanced way of addressing this emotionally charged subject.
One might charitably offer that if Magill had been able to take more time to consider her position, she might have come up with an answer that matched Chemerinsky's genuine empathy for the anguish that can be caused by hateful speech that also combined his deep understanding that First Amendment exceptions must be limited, narrowly defined, and consistently applied. But that's not what happened.
Given time to reconsider, Magill only made matters worse by posting a video to X in which she backed off from Penn's asserted commitment to First Amendment values. She said the school's speech code policies in the past "have been guided by the Constitution and the law," but that now, the university would "immediately" initiate "a serious and careful look at our policies" to change all that. Magill's capitulation was not enough to mollify her political critics, though, and she vacated her position within days of her Neville Chamberlain impersonation.
Unfortunately, Magill was not alone in concluding it was time to give up on the First Amendment. Writing in The Washington Post a few days after Magill's resignation, Claire Finkelstein, chair of Penn Law School's committee on academic freedom, and member of the school's Open Expression Committee, complained that "the value of free speech has been elevated to a near-sacred level on university campuses." But enough of all that.
Finkelstein called Magill's initial halting defense of free expression "profoundly wrong," and, noting that Penn is not bound by the First Amendment, added, "In my experience, Penn has never actually followed the First Amendment, even to a close approximation." This—sadly—is true, as FIRE's surveys have shown. But it is a good thing, according to Finkelstein, who argues the university should double down on its abandonment of constitutional principles.
She suggested it was time for university presidents "to rethink the role that open expression and academic freedom play in the educational mission of their institutions." Why? Because too much free speech on campus "emphasizes skills that pose the greatest challenge to our democracy." Accordingly, she proposed a crackdown not just on calls for genocide, but also on proxy statements and the "ability to shout intemperate slogans" that might foster a hostile environment.
Even more thoughtful commentators, like The Washington Post's Ruth Marcus, have suggested that free speech may be a good thing and all, but that "the full contours of the First Amendment" should not apply "in the university setting." Apparently, the times are just too tough or university students too fragile to endure the rigors that come with freedom of speech.
But just the opposite is true. The principles some may be willing to toss aside or dilute were not forged in tranquil times. First Amendment protections against the "heckler's veto" emerged not from some mannered theoretical discussion of political theory but from a case involving a near riot that erupted in response to a firebrand priest's intemperate condemnation of communists and Zionist Jews, among other targets. Police struggled to keep a crowd of 1,500 demonstrators at bay as they surged toward the auditorium trying to break in, hurling bricks and other objects at the windows.
In the aftermath, Father Arthur Terminiello was prosecuted for disturbing the peace for igniting the hostile reaction, but the Supreme Court reversed his conviction. It was not enough that his words "invited dispute," the Court reasoned, because "a function of free speech under our system of government is to invite dispute. It may indeed best serve its high purpose when it induces a condition of unrest, creates dissatisfaction with conditions as they are, or even stirs people to anger." Such protections are based on the understanding that "speech is often provocative and challenging. It may strike at prejudices and preconceptions and have profound unsettling effects as it presses for acceptance of an idea."
The university setting is precisely the place where these lessons need to be learned and reinforced. As the Supreme Court stressed over six decades ago, "The vigilant protection of constitutional freedoms is nowhere more vital than in the community of American schools." These principles emerged from the ideological struggles of the Joseph McCarthy era, the demands by students to discuss social issues in the Berkeley free speech movement, the campus demonstrations for civil rights and against the Vietnam War in the 1960s and '70s, and numerous political disputes since then. As the Kalven Report concluded during the campus turmoil of the 1960s, "A good university, like Socrates, will be upsetting."
There is no need to infantilize students by telling them they are simply too brittle to fully participate in the heated debates going on in the world around them. Instead, we need clear leadership from university presidents and others that stresses our commitment to free expression. This commitment must remain strong especially in turbulent times, and this includes developing a resilience against what Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. described in 1919 as "opinions that we loathe and believe to be fraught with death." And we also need leaders who understand the difference between protected but distasteful speech and violence, vandalism, and attempts to block or shut down opposition speakers.
The situation will not improve by adopting some half-assed version of the First Amendment to shield university students from offense. Far from being "the greatest challenge to our democracy," as Finkelstein and others suggest, understanding and experiencing the rigors of uninhibited free speech is necessary to the functioning of our democracy. Or, as Washington Post columnist Jason Willick put it, "The academy's decline will continue until it can produce leaders with the strength to break the ideological frenzy that has taken hold. That will mean rejecting identity politics, cracking down on mobs that disrupt and vandalize, but defending protected speech to the hilt."
None of this is easy. These are indeed times that try men's and women's souls. But as Justice Robert Jackson wrote in another time of crisis, "Freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order."
Restricting speech about the world's most pressing problems does not make them go away, nor does it settle any disputes. We defend First Amendment principles not because the Supreme Court said so in some dusty old casebook, but because experience has taught us that the price of jettisoning them is higher.
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Words and ideas are dangerous
Oh, so THAT is why sore-in-the-cunt cunt-sore-va-turds shout down "wrong" ideas, and go all ape-shit-Trumpanzee at pro-mobocracy, anti-democracy "mostly peaceful" Demon-strations, hissy fits, and violent temper tantrums?
And then they blame the Demon-Craps!!!
https://www.umass.edu/news/article/republicans-blame-democrats-antifa-and-us
REPUBLICANS BLAME DEMOCRATS, ANTIFA AND U.S. CAPITOL POLICE FOR JAN. 6 MAYHEM, ACCORDING TO NEW UMASS AMHERST/WCVB POLL
"Hang Mike Pence"!!! Dear Leader agrees!!!
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-defends-jan-6-rioters-hang-mike-pence-chant-newly-n1283798
Trump defends Jan. 6 rioters' 'hang Mike Pence' chant in new audio
The audio captured part of an interview ABC News’ Jonathan Karl conducted with Trump at Mar-a-Lago in March for Karl’s upcoming book.
You really need to get the orderlies to let you read the internet again. Everything you post is several years outdated and debunked.
Hitler and the NAZIs are now almost 80 years gone... Saying that Hitler and the NAZIs were EVIL is now outdated, yesterday's news, and thoroughly debunked, according to Mammary-Necrophilia-Farter-Fuhrer! Good is the new evil, and evil is the new good!
Has anyone else noticed that reason has stopped publishing anything about Gaza?
Reason isn’t reporting anything about the genocide in Gaza because it clearly demonstrates the depravity of the Jews.
Jews in Israel are committing a holocaust in Gaza with our tax dollars. They threatened to use nukes that they aren’t supposed to have. By targeting noncombatants in refugee camps they are committing the definition of crimes against humanity.
Jews are destroying everyone and everything to exterminate all evidence of Palestinians in Gaza. Genocide.
We shouldn’t be doubling down here. We need to stop them. We invaded Iraq with far less justification.
The world is recording the wests continued support and funding of this genocide, apartheid, terrorism and crimes against humanity committed by this stolen Jewish criminal state.
When you support and fund the bad guys, that’s what you are.
Reason has published an article from a genocidal Jewish perspective but it can’t be found even in the supposed “latest” archive list. For obvious reasons.
https://reason.com/podcast/2023/12/28/russ-roberts-life-in-israel-since-october-7-2/?comments=true#comment-10377867
I follow the war in Israel very closely, with daily updates that include live video. The IDF is defeating Hamas very systematically and carefully. They give more than ample notice well before they move into an area, something I've never seen done before by anyone. Who tells the armed enemy exactly where they plan to attack? But the IDF does exactly that.
I have watched video evidence of how Hamas has stashed weapons in children's bedrooms, in mosques, in schools, in hospitals, and in civilian's homes. I have seen video of their tunnels and rockets, built with the money the world has been sending to them to aid civilians, but stolen by the military. I have seen video of rocket attacks which are still a near-daily event.
Using civilians like this is completely immoral. It guarantees there will be collateral deaths and damage of civilian infrastructure. The damage is enormous, because each and every building and room has to be cleared of weapons, tunnel openings, traps, and combatants.
But it is clear to me that Hamas is the evil actor in this war. The IDF is not being indiscriminate. And I am certain that every single act of war will cease immediately once Hamas surrenders.
With over 15000 non-combatant Palestinian women and children killed and 3 times that number wounded and mutilated, Jewish actions aren’t indiscriminate, they are intentional crimes against humanity.
When bullets and bombs are shot through people, the term “human shields” doesn’t apply, the term crimes against humanity does.
"With over 15000 non-combatant Palestinian women and children killed and 3 times that number wounded and mutilated"
Well there's a flat-out fucking lie. For a shithead who squeals that the holocaust numbers were inflated, you certainly don't mind inventing your own phony atrocities so you can hate some more on the Jews.
A Nazi scumbag lie!?
Fuck off and die Misek; the world and your family implore you. Make the world a better place, asshole; fuck off and die in a fire.
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War sucks. Hamas shouldn't have started one.
Amen!!!
Youd'a thought they'd have learned that by now, but it seems stupidity is in great supply there.
They voluntarily live in a region where the Temps exceed 130 degrees F. If that's not an ingrained cultural stupidity I don't know what is.
Voluntarily? You're happy for them to come here instead? Okay...
Where are you getting your numbers Misek?
His ass.
Jeff's ass would produce over a million deaths in Gaza.
Fat Man looking for Little Boy.
I picture a six year old being able to bitch slap Jeffy.
The six year old's arms might not be long enough to reach Jeff's face past his belly.
"I follow the war in Israel very closely, with daily updates that include live video. "
That is good, staying informed is a positive thing. Have you seen any evidence of the use of human shields? You allude to it but provide no examples. I've seen a number of videos, of the action in Gaza, and none provide any evidence for the use of human shields. For example, a militant with a knapsack stealthily approaches an Israel tank parked out in the open. He put the knapsack under the tank, and runs away, apparently unhurt as the tank explodes. No human shields in evidence. It seems that using human shields in such an operation would only put its success at risk. And in any case, would never deter IDF forces from killing them, anyway, as we saw with trigger happy soldiers gunning down unarmed near naked Hebrew speakers waving a white flag.
Would you accept hamas shooting gazans trying to leave a hospital? Bombing gazans fleeing gazan cities? Done in order to keep them there?
"Would you accept hamas shooting gazans trying to leave a hospital? Bombing gazans fleeing gazan cities? "
That's not using human shields. I was asking DaveM, who claims to follow the conflict closely if he's seen any evidence of Palestinian militants using human shields. No answer yet. Perhaps you've seen such evidence. Care to share?
Define human shields. Putting civilians near attack sites is my definition. I'm sure yours is a cartoon version of strapping babies to your chest.
"Here's a list of atrocities by Hamas against their own people demonstrating that using Gazans as human shields fits their behavior"
"That’s not using human shields. I was asking DaveM, who claims to follow the conflict closely if he’s seen any evidence of Palestinian militants using human shields."
This is why mtrueman is evil.
"Putting civilians near attack sites is my definition. "
Your definition is good enough for me. There's plenty of evidence of Israel putting the HQ of their defense ministry in a residential neighborhood of their largest city. But I was asking DaveM if he's seen similar use of human shields with the Palestinians. So far, still no answer.
There’s plenty of evidence of Israel putting the HQ of their defense ministry in a residential neighborhood of their largest city.
Israel doesn't launch attacks from there dumdum. It took you that long to come up with that?
"Israel doesn’t launch attacks from there dumdum"
It's an HQ. Do you have any evidence that Palestinians are using human shields or not? I asked DaveM to provide the evidence for his claims, and still no answer, hours later. Then you chimed in and nothing from you either.
"This is why mtrueman is evil."
I ask for evidence for claims made here and only childish ad hominem comes back in response.
Hamas puts their tunnels under hospitals, amd their equipment next to schools. They make families hold their hostages for them.
THAT aid using human shields, you Marxist asshole.
"ad hominem"
It's not ad hominem when you're engaged in doing evil activities like minimizing war crimes, you fucking sociopath.
Do you have any evidence that Palestinians are using human shields or not?
I gave you two examples. Can give you dozens of examples of rockers launched from hospitals, schools, and apartment building that were concurrently used by civilians during the attacks.
You seem to have a hard time with logic.
"I gave you two examples. "
No, this was your 'evidence' of Palestinian militants using human shields:
"Would you accept hamas shooting gazans trying to leave a hospital?"
Leaving aside questiions about whether this happened. I notice times and places and sources are suspiciously missing from your claim, It's nothing to do with human shields. Use of human shields is when noncombatants are forced to stand between two opposing groups, in the hopes that one group will be dissuaded from attacking the other for fear of harming the noncombattants. If you have seen any evidence of that having happened, show me. I've been asking for hours now, and not a single example has been provided.
I'm not here to do your research for you sea lion. You've not sourced a single of your claims, dont ask for mine. The stories have been posted here in the past.
Maybe try using logic instead of unsound narrative building?
Both incidents i originally mentioned were the 48 hours given after the IDF asked civilians to leave warning them they would enter Gaza city. Hamas killed their own civilians trying to leave so retarded nazis like yourself could garner a narrative.
Forcing civilians to stay somewhere that the military is being attacked is exactly what human shields means you retard.
"I’m not here to do your research for you sea lion. You’ve not sourced a single of your claims, dont ask for mine. "
I'm asking if you have any evidence to back up DaveM's claim. None has been coming. Just insults and bluster. If you don't have any, it's OK to admit it. I won't think any the less of you for you admission.
"Both incidents i originally mentioned were the 48 hours given after the IDF asked civilians to leave warning them they would enter Gaza city. Hamas killed their own civilians trying to leave so retarded nazis like yourself could garner a narrative."
That's not evidence of anything, including use of human shields. If you have something of substance to offer, do so.
"It’s not ad hominem "
I'm afraid it is. If you're asked to provide evidence for claims you make and all you can respond with is insults and bluster, that's ad hominem, by definition. It's a logical fallacy, and doesn't persuade anyone, however emotionally satisfying it is to you.
I’m asking if you have any evidence to back up DaveM’s claim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
I already explained what you are doing. No matter what you're given you will dismiss or change your ask. Go troll elsewhere.
“It’s not ad hominem ”
.
I’m afraid it is. If you’re asked to provide evidence for claims you make and all you can respond with is insults and bluster, that’s ad hominem, by definition.
Are you sarcs sock? He doesn't understand these terms either.
"I’m afraid it is."
Let me explain it to you, retard. If you deliberately excuse and run cover for war crimes, it's not ad hominem to observe that your evil.
ad hominem:
mtrue - "I'm concerned about the people of Gaza"
me - "You're evil"
Not ad hominem:
mtrue - "I'm going to misrepresent war crimes and minimize them"
me - "You're evil"
It would only be ad hominem if you hadn't been being evil.
Even simpler ML.
Mtrueman is retarded - insult
Mtrueman is wrong because he is retarded - ad hominem
" If you deliberately excuse and run cover for war crimes"
I asked DaveM to provide evidence for the claim he made that Palestinian militants were using human shields. He never provided any, Neither did you or anyone else responding to me. I get the fact that there is no evidence, but you can't bring yourself to admit it. A feckless and childish response, it is true, but I've come to expect as much from your ilk. I thank you for demonstrating this to anyone who is reading. You play the part of an aggrieved stooge very well.
Oh dear sweet Jesus
"...Have you seen any evidence of the use of human shields?..."
Pretty sure this antisemite would excuse tunneling under hospitals as just the quickest route from A to B, right, lying pile of shit?
Hiding in civilian areas and hospitals is using human shields, not to mention kidnapping men, women and children and calling them "hostages." Hamas could have prevented all of the deaths in Gaza by A) not attacking on Oct 7th, or B) surrendering and turning themselves over to Israel to face justice for their crimes of Oct 7th.
"Hiding in civilian areas and hospitals is using human shields,"
Again, I didn't see any civilians in evidence when the militants approached the tank to destroy it.
DaveM made the claim, and asked to provide evidence, has so far refused my request. Same with you and several other respondents.
"Hamas could have prevented all of the deaths in Gaza by A) not attacking on Oct 7th, or B) surrendering and turning themselves over to Israel to face justice for their crimes of Oct 7th."
That doesn't answer my question. It's not relevant.
There is no scenario where you will admit Hamas uses human shields. As you are an anti Israeli propagandist, amd support the Hamas terrorists.
“There is no scenario where you will admit Hamas uses human shields.”
I haven’t been presented with any evidence, at all. Not from you, not from the originator of the claim, or several others who’ve chimed in. Just misdirection and ad hominem. Let’s put it this way, what evidence convinced you that Palestinian militants use human shields?
You've been given many examples you refuse to acknowledge. Standard practice for your type. I found each reference within the first 2 pages on duckduckgo.
You will continue switching requirements of your demanded evidence at every presentation.
Youre an unusefilul, dishonest, jewelry hating moron. No better than Misek denying the holocaust.
"I think for him to accept Hamas uses human shields he’s going to need a video of them literally binding people up and carrying them in front of them as they charge forward."
Almost 3 months into the conflict and I've not seen any video taken by anyone showing Palestinians forcing noncombatants to act as human shields. If you've seen such videos, please share them.
I suspect the reason for this lack of evidence is because Palestinians aren't using human shields. Think about it. If Israeli soldiers are so trigger happy and panic stricken as to gun down 3 unarmed, near naked, Hebrew speakers bearing a white flag of surrender, the militants are not going to bother with this stratagem. The video of the guy sneaking up on the tank shows that they can function well without the encumbrance of having to herd human shields around whenever they confront the Israelis.
"Youre an unusefilul, dishonest, jewelry hating moron. "
Again, no evidence, just school yard taunts. But it is correct, I am not a big fan of jewelry. A simple wedding band is about as far as I go.
"I haven’t been presented with any evidence, at all..."
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
"You’ve been given many examples you refuse to acknowledge"
I didn't ask for examples. I asked for evidence. None has been forthcoming. The closest you've come is some story about Hamas shooting at civilians. That isn't what I want. If you've got any evidence to show that Hamas is forcing noncombatants to stand between them and the Israels with the aim of deterring Israeli fire, give me the link. That's all I've been asking for hours now, and I get nothing in return. I understand you have no evidence but are too much of an intellectual coward to admit it. I'm not surprised.
"I haven’t been presented with any evidence, at all..."
This stupid pile of shit is not capable of recognizing that tunneling under hospitals is, indeed, using humans as shields.
You'd think it would be painful to be this imbecilic, wouldn't you?
Starting to think miscontrueman is farther down the spectrum than I previously did. I think for him to accept Hamas uses human shields he’s going to need a video of them literally binding people up and carrying them in front of them as they charge forward.
"Starting to think miscontrueman is farther down the spectrum than I previously did. I think for him to accept Hamas uses human shields he’s going to need a video of them literally binding people up and carrying them in front of them as they charge forward."
And, like Misek, he'd still claim it isn't evidence. His dishonesty approaches turd's.
"They give more than ample notice well before they move into an area, something I’ve never seen done before by anyone. "
How much is ample notice? Patients in a hospital, new born babies, the old, and disabled can't be expected to simply 'move into another area.' Killing hospital patients for failing to comply with these warnings doesn't seem to increase the moral standing of the IDF at all.
The IDF has a long way to go before there's a moral equivalency between their actions and those of the side that purposefully raped women to death and deliberately murdered babies and children in a surprise attack.
How much is ample notice? DaveM boastfully made the claim, and now refuses to elaborate. How much time does a new born baby need to respond IDF warnings to vacate the hospital before it's attacked?
GTFO. You’re just being deliberately obtuse. Maybe travel to Gaza and got help your Hamas friends.
"GTFO. You’re just being deliberately obtuse. Maybe travel to Gaza and got help your Hamas friends."
mtrueman|8.30.17 @ 1:42PM|#
"Spouting nonsense is an end in itself."
"You’re just being deliberately obtuse."
DaveM claimed patients in hospitals were given more than ample notice to evacuate before the hospital was attacked. I asked several times how much time is ample notice. So far there has been no response. Not from him, not from you, not from anyone else.
How much notice was given to the women at the 'concert for peace' who were brutally raped to death and then had their disheveled, lifeless bodies paraded through the streets of Gaza?
Did Hamas drop off pamphlets to let the elderly women or babies of the kibbutz they were attacking know to flee beforehand?
"How much notice was given to the women at the ‘concert for peace’ who were brutally raped to death and then had their disheveled, lifeless bodies paraded through the streets of Gaza?"
You're still not answering the question. DaveM claimed that more than ample notice was given to patients at the hospital to vacate before the hospital was attacked by IDF. My question is how much time is ample time? If you don't know, it's OK to say so. Perhaps you think ample time isn't being given. It's still OK to say so. You mustn't fear the facts. Show some courage, Minadin.
"Show some courage, Minadin."
Clearly a bridge too far.
What an asshole. Hang out with Sqrlsy and Kirkland, grey box.
Greetings, DaveM! Just so you know, the man you're civilly conversing with is a Holocaust Denier Nazi.
And let's not forget Mtruemqn has a favorite Nazi and defends that position and thinks asking others who their favorite Nazis is and when they reply the dead ones he said that is to ambiguous.
and now Mtrueman has earned a mute, the same as Misek, because that's about as much energy as I want to put towards Nazis, other than about eight pounds of pressure (the trigger pull of a M16/M-4 series rifle for those who don't know).
The bigotry button is made for losers like you.
You can’t refute what you deny anyways so do yourself a favour and blind yourself to counter arguments.
Oh I see one of the Nazi Scum gray boxes replied if he called me a bigot for hating Nazis like him, and make some bullshit remark about not refuting (notice no matter how much evidence you provide, Misek and MTrueman insist it is never enough or that isn't real evidence, because Nazis love nothing more than twisting the truth, Goebel was the master of it). So, if hating Nazis scum like this makes me a bigot, I'll proudly wear that badge. The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi. Period. My great Uncle Dale was so good at making good Nazis, that they called him back again in 1951, to make good Communist in Korea. To bad that fucking dwarf Austrian motherfucker was in the Hospital recovering from wounds when my Great Grandpa visited France in 1918, so my Great Grandad didn't get a chance to make the best Nazi of all time.
Oh and my great-great-great Grandfather's (on my paternal Grandmother's side of the family) stepped straight of the boat from Germany and Denmark and spent the next couple of years making good Confederates too, with their Springfield Rifles Uncle Sam gave them. Hell, for that matter, my 14th cousin on my mother's side helped make a bunch of good British soldiers when he defied his King's order not to travel to America and fight in our war of independence. Then he went back home and helped overthrow that King, co-authored the Declaration of rights of Man and Citizen, resisted the tyranny of Jacobianism, which forced him to flee to Austria. Then after the Corsican tyrant came to power, he refused to assist him. In 1830, after the Grandson of the King he disobeyed in his youth turned autocratic, he helped overthrow him too. So, you can say making good tyrants and evil doers is kind of a family tradition.
Fuck, for that sake my Dad's family comes from the area of Western Norway that resisted Olaf II reign the most (although it was the area that supported Harold I, or the fair hairs reign, the most). So, being bigoted against tyrants and evil scum just seems to be genetic for me. The Norse of the Lade tended towards independence and local rule, even while swearing allegiance to foreign kings (Sweyn and Cnut). We also settled Iceland and Greenland, where there were no kings, and the Orkneys and Faroe, where we also didn't have kings at first. But we helped depose and kill a few in the British Isles and the Mid European Steppes, although I will admit we didn't exactly make the subjects of those deposed Kings free. But what I've rid in the sagas and the histories of the our enemies at the time, it sounds like my forefathers had a blast doing it, even after becoming Christians. Oh and the Norwegian resistance helped sink the Nazi (literally, not figuratively) atomic program.
Fuckwit peeked. Hahaha
Your ancestors are rolling in their graves over your support for Jewish genocide, apartheid and crimes against humanity. Maybe not.
Jews and Nazis are like peanut butter and chocolate.
Depravity? It demonstrates Israel's determination to not let Hamas remain free to launch further terror attacks. Israel is a country, not a religion.
Hamas membership is not a gene.
Israel is not threatening to use nukes against Gaza or The West Bank or anyone else who doesn't threaten them! It would be Goddamn stupid for Israel to use nukes against nearby Gaza, since the shock wave, radiation, and fallout would come back on Israel!
Of course, the same cannot be said for you beloved Putin, who was the first to threaten to use nukes in The Russo-Ukraine War!
The same also cannot be said of your Aryan brethren in Germany, who also researched the possibilty of making an atomic bomb and who would have turned New York City into rubble had they completed their dream!
I wonder if they realized it was the research and scientific exploration of Jewish scientists like Einstein, Oppenheimer, and Neumann and Anti-Fascists scientists like Enrico Fermi who made nuclear power even possible.
So, as always, I have to drop the one-two Plutonium on you:
Fuck Off, Nazi!
The world is watching these dirty Jews committing genocide, terrorism, apartheid and crimes against humanity. Just like we’re watching them advocate it here on this comments section.
Hatred is conflict. Conflict in speech originates from lying. Who isn’t in conflict with these lying wastes of skin whose religion advocates lying while they commit crimes against humanity? Only the bad guys.
Hell, Jews have been hated for their actions for millennia. History repeats itself when we don’t learn from it.
Jews are committing a holocaust in Gaza with our tax dollars and western governments help. They certainly haven’t learned anything.
Stop lying Nazi. No kne is listening to your lies.
For those of you who think "genocide" is a magic word that defeats all facts, logic, reason, disagreement and opposition or renders debate unnecessary: you're wrong. Those of your ilk who abused that word endlessly for the last few decades burned out any possible emotional content and it no longer works when you try to push that particular button. This is a war between the IDF and Hamas. The most recent ceasefire between the warring parties was violated by Hamas in a particularly disgusting and brutal way and now they are using Palestinians as human shields. In every war there are innocent victims and collateral damage. In this war the death toll and damage may be unusually bad because of the particularly nasty tactics of Hamas. Any other conclusion is based upon partisan lies and propaganda. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Not magic, merely accurate accounting of the crimes against humanity that Jews are committing in Gaza today.
"and now they are using Palestinians as human shields."
Do you have any evidence to back that up? I've asked a number of times and not a single scrap has been forthcoming. For clarity, let's define human shields: it's compelling unarmed noncombatants to position themselves between two opposing groups to deter the other group from firing on the one using the human shields. I haven't seen any evidence that this is going on. I doubt you have, but I'd welcome any attempt to back up your claim.
"the particularly nasty tactics of Hamas."
Which particularly nasty tactics of Hamas are you referring to? Using firearms and explosives to target IDF soldiers and their equipment? That seems pretty standard to me. Nasty, sure, but not particularly nasty.
"For those of you who think “genocide” is a magic word that defeats all facts, logic, reason, disagreement and opposition or renders debate unnecessary: you’re wrong."
If it's magic, it's because of the lengths people people like yourself are driven to deny it. I assure you it's not magic. It has a well defined meaning in the dictionary:
genocide
noun
geno·cide ˈje-nə-ˌsīd
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group
"it’s because of the lengths people people like yourself are driven to deny it."
The same could be said of the lengths people like you are driven to to assert it.
"Which particularly nasty tactics of Hamas are you referring to?"
The ones where Hamas sneak attacks a bunch of innocent concert festival attendees, beheading and raping and abducting them and then hiding behind them in tunnels.
"The same could be said of the lengths people like you are driven to to assert it."
I'm asserting it because it's reality. You're denying it because you think it's magic. It's not the same at all. I face the facts, you deny them.
"The ones where Hamas sneak attacks a bunch of innocent concert festival attendees, beheading and raping and abducting them and then hiding behind them in tunnels."
Have you studied slave revolts through history? Check out the one in Haiti some two centuries previous. It was far worse than anything that happened on Oct. 7, and stretched out over much longer than a day. Know your history. Compared to historical norms, Oct. 7 was nasty, (as were Oct. 8 -> Dec. 31) it wasn't particularly nasty. It fell within the range of normality.
And what happened to all this evidence you were about to provide to back up your claims that Palestinians were using human shield? You somehow forgot to include them.
Of course. You.
You keep going on about how the IDF has to root Hamas out of maternity wards and neonatal units.
I know you're a blithering idiot, but even you have to understand that your methods are forcing you to concede the point you're trying to scream in everyone's face.
Hamas is in hospitals. As you repeatedly point out by noting that the IDF is giving advance notice to the people in hospitals.
Is it enough time? Who can tell, those people are surrounded, according to you, by Hamas.
Who are using them as human shields according, again, to you.
Look at all the Jews denying the genocide, apartheid, crimes against humanity and holocaust they’re committing against the Palestinians of Gaza.
I saw that coming.
PS, Mike Pence's dangerous words and ideas were that votes, voters, established democratic norms and processes, peaceful transfers of power, and the USA Constitution should actually be RESPECTED!!! Now just IMAGINE THAT!!! This was HERESY to True Trumpaloos!!!
And silence is violence.
As a person with unapproved ideas, you lose either way.
https://twitter.com/entropyrian/status/1741083683426082883?t=baLm5hhTNl_dXOLz5zHSWg&s=19
Boomers had an ideological baby called civil rights and were so proud of it they refused to acknowledge that it could do wrong, failed to notice when it renamed itself social justice, and blinded themselves to the havoc their spoiled child started wreaking.
Boomers? The oldest boomer was 18 when the civil rights act was passed, Not old enough to vote but, the men anyway, old enough to draft.
Boomers worship the civil rights act and era like its the embodiment of Good itself.
The boomers seem reasonable now, compared to what universities are turning out these days.
"Boomers worship the civil rights act and era like its the embodiment of Good itself."
You're very good at making idiotic comments. Not so good at supporting them.
Yeah...fuck you.
Is free speech only under threat when the most inexcusable of left-wing opinions gets pushback? Do the acts of violence and property damage accompanying the pro-terrorist's speech get to factor into what deserves condemnation?
Where was/is the concern for the overwhelming number of cases where basic conservative speech is aggressively and often violently shut down on campuses. I see no issue with condemning this speech and restricting facility usage and funding from groups pushing for genocide. There are a handful of examples I've seen where the pro-Hamas people have had their speech restricted without good reason but I still don't think it rises to anything near the level of censorship we've seen against the other side.
I have zero issue with them expressing their shitty opinions. Tbh, it looks to me like the only reason they're getting backlash from the establishment is because it reveals that the socialists share Jew hatred along with the rest of NAZI ideology.
It's very telling when the worst people get strong support from Reason writers but it's at best crickets when people who actually hold free speech values are under attack.
"It’s very telling when the worst people get strong support from Reason writers but it’s at best crickets when people who actually hold free speech values are under attack."
Examples please, of both of your supposed cases!!!
It’s very telling when Reason.com-haters and individual-freedom-haters and free-speech-for-me-butt-snot-for-thee types make blanket, broad-brush accusations, but provide ZERO links or examples, to justify their statements!
"Examples please, of both of your supposed cases!!!"
Read the article you're trolling under, you crazy fuck.
Your Big-Fake-Boobed "brains" are UDDERLY full of SHIT ass usual! Tell me WHERE (in this article or ANY other Reason.com article) a Reason writer says that the EVIL "Team R" speakers should be PUNISHED for their speech, by Government Almighty, but the "Team D" speakers should NOT? WITHOUT Your usual PERFECT Bullshit of conflating speech with actions, or non-violence-threatening speech with clear threats of violence? ALSO without conflating PURE CRITICISM ("That's an immoral thing that you're doing") with advocacy of the use of Government Almighty FORCE!!!
SOME of us are smart enough to see through Your Perfectly STUPID AND EVIL bullshit!
SQRLSY should be civilly confirmed against its will. Hopefully his state has civil commitment options for a creature like it
Punk Boogers is an empty-headed fuck-face... And THAT is being generous!
I see a grey box. Hopefully announcing its imminent suicide. As it has no right to exist.
Parents at school boards.
FACE act violations.
Non violent J6 protestors.
Proud Boys at J6 (only 2 committed violence)
I mean sullum has even given in to claiming Trump may have incited the riot.
Parents at school boards.
What about "parents at school boards"? Gee I remember months of sturm und drang by Team Red about "the FBI going after peaceful parents protesting at school board meetings" and when the "bombshell whistleblower" report came out, all your guy Jim Jordan could come up with was exactly three (3) instances of the FBI doing any sort of interviews associated with parents protesting at school board meetings, and in one of those cases, it was just one set of school board members who called the FBI to sicc on the other set. Nothing happened, it was all an entire waste of time. Do you know why your team doesn't talk about this issue anymore? Because it was an entirely MADE-UP NOTHINGBURGER that your team manufactured to generate outrage.
FACE act violations.
These FACE act violations that were prosecuted, with the exception of arguably one that I could find anyway, were all legitimate crimes - either vandalism, property damage, or violence. Not mere speech. Are you going to try to claim that chaining shut the doors to an abortion clinic are now mere "speech"?
Non violent J6 protestors.
Trespassing is a crime, dumdum.
Proud Boys at J6 (only 2 committed violence)
Conspiracy is a crime, dumdum.
I mean sullum has even given in to claiming Trump may have incited the riot.
He did incite the riot, from a moral perspective. Was he legally culpable? No, and I don't think Sullum has argued that. But he absolutely shares moral blame for inciting the riot on Jan. 6, not just for his speech that morning, but for the weeks and weeks of his election denialism that occurred beforehand of spreading baseless lies and rumors about a "stolen election". His speech AND conduct were irresponsible.
You Trump defenders like to try to have it both ways - that he's some brave truth teller who says things that no one else will say, and then when people believe him and ACT upon what he says, then claim that he is not at all responsible for what he says, not even a little bit. I'm sorry, but that is wrong.
This is the ignorance I mention below Jeffrey. You've been given the stories multiple times. Your only role here is to deny reality, gish gallop, sea lion, and basically stan for democrats.
Trespassing is not mere speech. Conspiracy is not mere speech. Vandalism is not mere speech. You cite hyperventilating right-wing opinion pieces as fact and then demand everyone accept them uncritically, and if anyone pushes back you call them names. You are just a right-wing shill.
No Pedo Jeffy, HpJesse tells the truth. YOU are a left wing shill. You come here every day to lie on behalf of your democrat masters. We’ve all discredited your lies. Hundreds of times over at this point. You have no business here.
Time for you to go. Seek solace in your current 55 gallon drum of Ben & Jerry’s. You know you want to, fatfuck.
Also see you're still on your trespassing a Capital offense shtick. Amazing how selectively it is enforced though. And they weren't charged with trespassing in the vast majority of cases retard. Way to defend lawfare.
chemjeff radical individualist 3 years ago
Flag Comment Mute User
What is there to talk about?
From a libertarian perspective, Ashli Babbett was trespassing, and the officers were totally justified to shoot trespassers. Again from a libertarian perspective, the officers would have been justified in shooting every single trespasser. That would not have been wise or prudent, of course.
.
They were all trespassers trying to be where they weren’t supposed to be.
trespassing a Capital offense shtick
No, that is your deliberate misrepresentation of my comment, which I have explained multiple times, which you refuse to acknowledge.
There is a difference between the use of lethal force by the state as a punishment for a crime as determined by a court of law according to due process (which I oppose), and the use of lethal force by an agent of the state acting in the role of self-defense of the lives and property of others, which I generally support with appropriate caveats.
You deliberately conflate the two because, while you are smart enough to recognize the distinction, you want to paint all opposition to the killing of St. Ashli Babbitt as unjustified because she was on your team.
We’re not going to acknowledge your discredited statements and outright lies Fatfuck.
I see no issue with condemning this speech and restricting facility usage and funding from groups pushing for genocide.
Condemning - sure. But not restricting usage. Not for public institutions.
For a public institution to restrict usage of university facilities to a student group over the group's viewpoint would be no different than for a municipal government to restrict usage of a public park to a citizen group over the group's viewpoint. Both are violations of free speech.
"But my taxes pay for it" doesn't work - your tax bill is not a magic wand that permits you to take away the rights of people making opinions that you don't like if they are occurring on public property.
In which self governance loses out to egalitarianism, again.
Do you think that all human beings have inalienable rights by virtue of their existence?
Taxes aren't voluntary.
You can't take from people and then tell them that they have no say in how that money is spent.
They do have some say. They don't get to micromanage every penny.
Once again, if your tax bill was a magic wand that permitted you to dictate to the government what it could or couldn't do with every penny, then an anti-gun taxpayer could hypothetically demand that no guns could be transported on public roads because "he pays for the roads". And what would your counter-argument be?
Democracy, obviously.
If he has the support, then there was nothing I could do about it. Why do you think that so many people leave California?
So you believe that the majority of the people have the *legitimate* power to take away your rights because of a majority vote?
I believe that self governance permits non-libertarian outcomes.
And incidentally, the majority of the people already have the right to take my rights away. It's called an amendment.
I believe that self governance permits non-libertarian outcomes.
In this particular case, the 'non-libertarian outcome' would be the government taking away one's right to carry a firearm on a public road. Why should the government have the right to oppress people in this manner?
A Constitutional amendment that would take away one's liberties would be unjust. No one said that the Constitution had to be perfectly libertarian.
Why should the government have the right to oppress people in this manner?
Because self-governance permits it, and because governments are accountable to the people who elected them. However, gun control is dead as an issue, largely due to paranoid leftists buying guns to defend themselves against Trump voters, so this won’t happen anytime soon.
A Constitutional amendment that would take away one’s liberties would be unjust.
You’re question wasn’t one of morality, it was one of possibility. But even if it was, libertarianism does require that inclusion be equal to exclusion. Just look at the other article posted this morning, about black-run towns. These are models of self-governance. What they aren’t are egalitarian.
No one said that the Constitution had to be perfectly libertarian.
Indeed? I never said it had to be. Conservatives aren’t generally for changing the document for the sake of changing it. Amendment 18 didn’t pass via on high rulings.
And you didn't answer the question.
Do you think that all human beings have inalienable rights by virtue of their existence?
As jeff always says. You can act voluntarily, but if you dont act to his desires, the government is forced into action due to your choices not living up to his ideals.
Again not what I said.
IF we choose to act voluntarily to solve a social problem, THEN there will be no need for the government to act to solve that social problem.
You all like to pretend that social problems either don't exist, or that we don't need to worry about them, or that the real problem is government and not the underlying social problem that the government program was created to address. Guess what - strip government down to near zero, and there will still be poverty and hunger and homelessness. And IF private voluntary action is insufficient to meet the needs of those who are needy, then what? What do you think is a likely outcome here?
That’s exactly the narrative you have pushed here for years as an aggressive sea lioning shill for the democrats, you’ve really put your full weight behind it.
Shit thats a ton of weight behind his narratives.
Multiple shit tons. Emphasis on the shit.
Girther
I believe your exact words were along the lines of “If people had done it voluntarily, the government wouldn’t have been forced to mandate it” in the context of a discussion on masks.
Which anyone with a functioning brain understands what that is implying.
Event fees for student groups are generally covered by student fees dumdum.
Ideally, maybe. But universities have a legal and moral duty to make their campus a safe place to live and study, and to ensure that no student is subject to threats and intimidation to their membership in a federally protected class (race, religion, ethnicity, sex, etc.) Groups calling for genocide needn't be tolerated on campus, and anyone belonging to such groups should be expelled.
And no, fuck you.
Reason has been very good at defending free speech on campus, better than most. That you insist that they have to toe the conservative narrative instead is wrong. They should stand up for free speech not for conservative victimhood.
"better than most"
"The nicest rapist"
Jeff's bar for campus free speech advocacy touches the ground.
The ground may not be the only thing that gets touched.
Oh look, here comes ML to call me a Nazi again.
Except he didnt dumdum.
I don't care. ML's opinion is worthless.
Should a government entity be assigned to Reason to review and label ML’s comments if they do not meet some private-public established standard?
No.
Would it be a desirable goal if more people employed critical thinking and media literacy skills to better discern truth from fiction in their consumption of media?
If yes, can you think of a way to work to achieve this goal without government coercion or government agencies?
Allow people to arrive at destinations organically or individually find the resources to improve their critical thinking skills. Perhaps more would have rejected collectivist narratives.
Less Sullum and Boehm, more Wolfe.
"here comes ML to call me a Nazi again."
Stop advocating the practices and policies of the Third Reich and I'll stop pointing it out.
You’re getting to him. Keep it up. And although you’re Canadian, you’re far more American (assuming Fatfuck really is American) than Pedo Groomer Jeffy ever will be.
Anti white/European race hatred is literally school curricula and government policy, but all that matters is jews are facing a fraction of such attacks?
Yeah, when Hamas dropped rockets into my back yard...
Oh, wait. That didn't happen.
Notice sqrlvo's definition of antisemitism is not elevating jews above all other peoples and refusing to worship their special sacred victimhood
Notice nardz ability to invent strawmen on the run.
Racists have arsenals of lies and misdirection to help them justify their imbecility.
Decent people should object to both.
I think step one is to shut down all public colleges & universities, and to end all government subsidies to private colleges & universities. (Not a proper function of government.)
The remaining (private) colleges & universities get to set their own curricula and rules of behavior. The government should stay out of it. So, if a particular private school wants to teach race hatred, or to allow students to hold rallies calling for genocide, so be it. We can point out and criticize such schools, and, hopefully, few people will want to attend them.
I think we’re already way past the point where that could work. We have millions of free range Marxist extremists in this country. Many of whom are functionally now terrorists. They are backed to varying degrees by the democrat party. Which largely controls the media, federal bureaucracy, the entertainment industry, the tech industry, and apparently, federal law enforcement and much of the deferral court system.
No matter who gets elected, this must be addressed. It is unlikely this can be effectively done without some amount of armed conflict and the forced removal of the Marxist elements form those institutions. No in wants to admit that, but it’s true.
If anyone has an alternative I would like to hear it. I suspect, as usual, everything I just said will be ignored.
I would also like to hear about a workable alternative. I'm too old for a civil war to be any sort of fun.
"Where was/is the concern for the overwhelming number of cases where basic conservative speech is aggressively and often violently shut down on campuses."
It was non-existent. Conservative hobby horses like tranny bathrooms and drag shows clearly don't get much purchase in places like ivy league campuses. If conservatives seriously want to promote these issues, they could always borrow from the pro Israel lobby. Students were paid to attend the Nov. 14 rally in Washington, for example.
"The microgrant offered by the ICC was for reimbursement for up to $250 for expenses to get to the March For Israel rally in D.C. That rally, organized by the Jewish Federations of North America (JFNA), has three goals, JFNA CEO Eric Fingerhut told the Times of Israel."
If American conservatives were willing to put their money where their mouth was, they might gain more traction.
"It was non-existent..."
Pretty sure this one is a clove hitch.
Yeah, rather a load of codswallop. Even the Chimerensky quote is pointless because the question wasn’t about “the first amendment” but rather “campus policy”. And since from a practical perspective, “campus policy” prohibits shit as miniscule as “misgendering” someone, that rather pimp slaps the concept that Stefanik was asking “trick questions” as well.
Advocacy of a specific genocide is now "speech about the world's most pressing problems". Who would have known it?!
I mean, I agree with the need to have a robust culture of being able to advocate for weird and stupid causes in order to avoid a slippery slope. But it's hella dumb to inflate the absence of genocide to a "problem", much less one of "the world's most pressing problems". A real problem is that these institutions apply blatant double standards about what speech they tolerate, and especially which violent reactions to speech they tolerate.
Exactly. I don't even think they've faced close to the institutional backlash that their political opposition has and yet this is the big free speech concern?
I have no problem criticizing the violations of free speech, but it's silly to pretend that college campuses have been bastions of free speech. I'll defend their right to speak, but fuck their opinions and fuck them for not respecting the right of anyone else to speak.
And what has happened to this speech? Employers said they won't hire them. Donors pulled out. Groups funded with student fees were found to violate rules regarding those funds.
Not seeing where the state is going after these people. Even after they disrupt congress, assault officers, shut down streets, chase Jewish students into libraries, assault people filming them, etc.
Don't you get it? NOT supporting the delusions of progressives is the same as oppression.
Yes, and as long as we elevate jews in the protected class hierarchy, all is well right?
You keep claiming recognition is elevation, why?
Because you're treating jews like they're a special oppressed class.
Suddenly the woke DEI framework should be adopted when "antisemitism" is the issue.
Special interests and identity politics is either a negative, or should be embraced for your people above all others.
Elevating jews to highest priority places their ethnic interests above Americans and merely reinforces the perspective of normal whites as the evil other.
"Because you’re treating jews like they’re a special oppressed class."
Antisemite shits making assertions is almost as good as lefty shits doing the same.
Stuff your antisemitism up your ass, nazi
Sqrlvo needs to die.
nardz needs to stuff his imbecilic racism up his ass; his head has been begging for company for years.
Where? Cite me doing what you accuse me of.
"Where? Cite me doing what you accuse me of."
Ask am antisemite for evidence, you'll get a non-vintage whine.
I'm just trying to figure out how he thinks stating the video evidence that exists is akin to giving them a benefit based on being Jewish.
Antisemites do not require actual facts or evidence.
I'm talking about the general attitude of praising institutional power for crushing aggression against jews while promoting aggression against whites
And where did I do that?
Every time you talk about antisemitism.
I know you'll never accept that it's a concept whose only purpose is to vilify nationalist whites, but it is what it is.
"I’m talking about the general attitude"
Oh fuck.
I didn't even mention antisemitism.
You okay nardz?
Does it really harm you to admit the incidents occurring we have evidence of?
I go back to my original question. Do you mistake recognition for elevation? You seem to confuse those two often.
“I’m talking about the general attitude”
IOWs, the voices in his head.
By the way. Your assertion it is solely used to go against whites is amusing as I know I have and others have constantly pointed out antisemitism coming from minorities and not whites for the majority of the instances.
You seem hung up on arguments nobody is making.
"...You seem hung up on arguments nobody is making."
If racists didn't lie, they wouldn't have mush to speak about.
I think Nardz is mad that people take more issue with Jewish people being targeted than general 'white people' being targeted. Basically, he's upset that white people writ large aren't as 'protected' as Jewish people.
Nevermind that Jews are a faith as well as a genetic population and that both of them were specifically targeted for genocide earlier this century.
Maybe if white people were a minority population with a recent history of genocide against them people would be more sympathetic.
That, and it seems Nardz is slowly becoming an actual antisemite because of those resentments. It's not a good look.
" It’s not a good look."
Oh, contraire! Donning the mantle of victimhood is very much 'a la mode.' ( according to the prevailing style or fashion. )
You call anyone who doesn't worship Jewish victim pleading an antisemite, and continually beating a drum that has only ever been used to vilify native whites isn't a good look.
But sure, let's elevate jews to superiority and subsume all American concerns to their feelz!
So back to my second question. Cite me doing this nardz. You keep going in circles here.
BYODB,
Becoming? He's been there.
Nardz needs to join in Herr Misek and Misconstrueman and Rev. Artie in their Pinky and the Brain rat-cage as they plot to rule the world!
"antisemitism [is] a concept whose only purpose is to vilify nationalist whites"
???
It's not like Louis Farrakhan has ever been called an antisemite...
But it's even ridiculous to claim that nobody here has ever objected to the vilification of whites in general, as well. I'm pretty sure a whole pile of people here have lamented that bullshit. But calling out "only mentioning the Jews" at this point, when they are in fact the relevant topic, is absurd.
Stay woke, sqrlvo.
Better yet, die like the low IQ syphiltic faggot you are.
Fucking coward.
Oh, oh! A supposed insult from an imbecilic antisemite!
Fuck off and die, Nazi shit.
Manachevets?
Race, religion and ethnicity are already federally protected classes. Universities that accept federal funds (i.e. all of them) have a duty not to discriminate and not to allow persecution of such groups. It's not a matter of elevation, it's a matter of Harvard and others neglecting their duty to a particular group.
They are. Given that….
1. Six million of them were exterminated between the late 1930’s and 1945.
2. Over 2 billion Muslims, and at least a billion other people in assorted groups around the world want to exterminate the rest of the 16 million remaining Jews because of their Jewishness. Which a unique problem.
No other major world religion faces this adversity. So yes, the Jews are a special case.
A bit rich to parrot IDF talking points while discussing the need for free speech.
Morning Misek. Which "IDF talking-points" are those?
That's Gruppenfuhrer Misek.
Naah. A heroic dose of assholery.
I believe Utkonos called Herr Misek something like The Galloping Gauleiter.
Utkonos would be singing "SPRINGTIME for Hitler" if he were here. I sure wish Utkonos were here for the post-Channukah, post-Christmas, hangover which is the Reason Comments section. Him and Chumby were The Duelling Banjos of Punnery!
What do you think the odds are that Misek not only has a Nazi shrine in his closet, but also an authentic SS uniform?
I’ll bet he puts it on when he types out his Nazi drivel.
When he takes it off, the crotch is sticky.
Is that this podcast? “Morning Misek”. After a few siege heils to old Adolph, he expounds on the need to finish the job his Nazi masters started.
Episode 1: The Holocaust Never Happened (but should have)
Hahahhahahaha
Gaydolf Spitler Swallower
Freedom of speech on American college campuses is now facing great challenges in the aftermath of the October 7 Hamas attacks on Israel
There is no "freedom of speech" on American college campuses. Students and professors are supposed to act professionally as academics, and if they fail to do that, they ought to get kicked out. Calling for the genocide or ethnic cleansing of Jews is not acceptable professional behavior.
There should be freedom of speech, but not freedom to act.
Words aren't weapons and shouldn't be restricted, but bad behavior and censorious actions like shouting down other speakers, vandalism, occupying classrooms, interfering with education, physical violence, etc. shouldn't be tolerated.
unless your name is trump, then you're in insurrectionist. double standard much.
Well, that's got to be the first time I've ever been accused of being a NeverTrumper.
Thanks, AI comment bot!
I peg you more as a Never Trudeau’er.
Honestly, that is the only logical position for any Canadian.
There should be freedom of speech, but not freedom to act. Words aren’t weapons and shouldn’t be restricted
Free speech just means that government can't make laws restricting your speech. Other than that, your speech is limited in just about every environment. Employees who use racial slurs are unceremoniously fired. Customers who do are unceremoniously kicked out.
Universities are no different: they are a professional environment that exists for a particular purpose. If your speech doesn't align with that purpose, you should be unceremoniously kicked out.
No -- the First Amendment (plus its later incorporation against the states) means government can't make laws restrictions your speech. Free speech is a broader concept that includes freedom to speak in others forums and without reprisal from other sources.
"...Free speech is a broader concept that includes freedom to speak in others forums and without reprisal from other sources."
Pretty sure you're going to be alone in defending THAT.
Freedom of speech is not an unlimited license, but lynch mobs enforcing some bounds are not actually better than government thugs enforcing the same bounds just because the lynchers are not wearing government badges.
Seems there ought to be a law against lynching; speech be damned. Please don't change the subject.
Oh ye of little thought.
For lynching, read "being fired because of your off-the-job speech" or "being denied business because of your religion" or "being denied housing because you spoke against discrimination" or similar reprisals against speech. I think I'm in good company in caring about those effects, regardless of whether there are existing laws about the specific action.
Oh, ye bullshitter: If you are to honestly engage, stuff the hyperbole up your ass.
And I guess you might have some company, but "free speech" does not mean "free of consequences".
Act, or speak, like as ass, expect to be treated as such.
You're quite the hypocrite. You want lots of reprisals for speech but can't stand being identified as someone who fails to understand common shorthand that also captures the actual intent of a lot of these university mobs.
You're full of shit.
For lynching, read
So you admit that your use of the word "lynching" was intended to manipulate and mislead.
“being fired because of your off-the-job speech” or “being denied business because of your religion” or “being denied housing because you spoke against discrimination” or similar reprisals against speech
If you make these things illegal, then government has to enforce such rules. That means government has to decide whether speech that I have fired you for was legitimate or illegitimate speech; that is the exact opposite of free speech.
You're not an advocate of free speech, you're a totalitarian.
"...So you admit that your use of the word “lynching” was intended to manipulate and mislead..."
Propogandists gonna propagandize.
but lynch mobs enforcing some bounds
How exactly does a university saying "your speech has to comply with academic and professional standards" amount to a "lynch mob"?
Free speech is a broader concept that includes freedom to speak in others forums and without reprisal from other sources.
There is no such "broader concept", at least not in a free society. In a free society, you are free to say what you want, and I am free to fire you, stop doing business with you, and/or kick you off my property if I don't like what you say.
"In a free society, you are free to say what you want, and I am free to fire you, stop doing business with you, and/or kick you off my property if I don’t like what you say."
I like that.
Of course, government entities, such as public colleges & universities, are subject to certain legal constraints in this regard. But, as I said above, I'd shut down all public colleges & universities.
Of course, government entities, such as public colleges & universities, are subject to certain legal constraints in this regard.
Yes, but less than people think. The government clearly can (and, in fact, must) impose restrictions on its employees that it cannot impose on other citizens.
But, as I said above, I’d shut down all public colleges & universities.
I agree. That is the way to avoid all those conflicts.
"Free speech just means that government can’t make laws restricting your speech. "
No. The First Amendment means that government can’t make laws restricting your speech.
Free speech means free speech.
This is where the libirtines taking over the major LP party a decade or two ago and trying to recruit the free from consequences mantra of the left really shows the issue.
Free speech means free speech.
There is no meaningful concept of "free speech" beyond "government shall make no laws". You don't have "free speech rights" vis-a-vis private parties; attempting to define such rights is, in fact, a violation of free speech rights.
"There is no meaningful concept of “free speech” beyond “government shall make no laws”."
That's not true.
Freedom of speech is a fundamental principle that supports the freedom of an individual or a community to articulate their opinions and ideas without fear of retaliation, censorship, or sanction by any entity. Whether that entity is another family, tribe, gang, employer, church, police, the sheriff of Nottingham, mega corporation or the federal government.
And it's a universal moral principle, not a rule (although free speech laws around the world can be informed by the principle). The American First Amendment flows from the universal moral principle, not the other way around.
If you advocate the mass murder of Jews, or if you tell me that I am going to burn in hell for being gay, I am under no obligation not to retaliate: I can fire you, I can refuse to do business with you, I can boycott you. If everybody hates your speech, you may up ending starving to death. That is what free speech means. That is the only thing it can mean. It is also an important regulatory function in a free society.
If you think you have a right to be free of fear of retaliation, only the government could enforce such a right, which is the opposite of free speech.
You imagine the communist version of free speech (and individual liberties): a wide range of personal liberties free from constraints or (peaceful) retaliation from your fellow citizens.
If you advocate the mass murder of Jews, or if you tell me that I am going to burn in hell for being gay,
Words aren't actions. Anyone is free to think and speak stupid shit. The second they start to act though, it's a whole different ball game.
"I am under no obligation not to retaliate: I can fire you, I can refuse to do business with you, I can boycott you."
You can, but your actions would be just as immoral as the persons speech.
Words aren’t actions. Anyone is free to think and speak stupid shit.
You are free to speak stupid shit, and I am free to refuse to associate with you, to refuse to do business with you, and I am free to call on others to do the same.
You can, but your actions would be just as immoral as the persons speech.
Yeah, well, see if I care about the moral views of someone whose conception of "liberty" is that of your average teenage communist.
You can, but your actions would be just as immoral as the persons speech.
So, you’re saying that I am morally obligated to shop at the store with the “Juden Raus” sign in the window? Or, potentially more relevant these days, the one with the “No Firearms Allowed” stickers on the doors?
"Calling for the genocide or ethnic cleansing of Jews is not acceptable professional behavior."
It's no more unacceptable than calling for open borders and the ethnic cleansing of whites...
I agree. And all of those should get you fired/kicked out at universities, just like in any other workplace or professional environment.
Fair. Unfortunately, the civil rights act of 1964 replaced the constitution so we have neither freedom nor equal application of the law.
Try to stay on subject.
Three things to understand to better judge what happens on campuses:
1. Our institutions are now more faith-based centers of ideology than places for inquiry and critical thinking. And doctrine by definition will be inconsistent and favor the chosen.
2. American college students are no longer young adults, nor do they aspire to be. The model now is a coddled 13 ear old, wrapped up in confusing emotions, and demanding both autonomy and protection from the mean real world.
3. Anyone who challenges the first two points will be branded as a heretic and a fascist, and thus an enemy of the body. The least they can expect is expulsion.
This is all about silencing those organizations that would speak out about what's happening in Gaza now. Or the West Bank. Or for that matter ANYTHING in that part of the world. It is a highly organized campaign and Reason is completely part of it and it works. Just look at the tag 'Palestine' for stories before Oct 7.
For the previous multiple YEARS, a story tagged 'Palestine' is almost always about speech on college campuses in the US - and specifically about accusing those organizations of anti-semitism (as part of the general meme that anti-Zionism equals anti-semitism). Not about anything happening there - in Palestine. It's really striking. There are no stories on Reason about why those organizations might even exist. About what happens in - you know - Palestine or occupied territories.
Apparently those organizations only exist to parrot Hamas. Not even Fatah - Hamas. No wonder commenters here are so blindingly stupid about basic facts of what is happening. So amenable to propaganda. And hence - completely gullible about the notion that a tag about 'Palestine' is actually almost exclusively about 'college campus speech in the US'.
I want to apologize to Jeff. It turns out he isnt morbidly obese as you can see in this video.
Libs of TikTok
@libsoftiktok
Jeffrey Marsh tells kids on TikTok that he loves them and they can be in his family if they want to cut off contact with their families. Major predator vibes
(VIDEO)
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1740770752495071692
Hey look, I found Jesse's latest protest sign.
https://www.liveabout.com/thmb/eJ6apnPzqALBEUm66fTve9VbMhw=/750x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc():format(webp)/fox-news-infromed-58b8f8ed5f9b58af5cbc09c0.jpg
Can't even link correctly. Probably due to fat fingers. So I retract my apology.
His knuckles are still sore from last week when mom brought Little Debbie Swiss Rolls home instead of Ho hos.
Fatfuck is so worthless.
Let me try that again.
http://tinyurl.com/4wzny5u9
Couldn't find a Biden praising salon article to use Jeffrey Marsh?
The most uninformed people here continue to be you and the other democrats. Lol.
All you ever link to are right-wing opinion sites that masquerade as 'news', and sometimes don't even pretend that they are not opinion sites, and yet you present them as if they were fact.
Why do you come here day after day spreading the right-wing narrative?
I mean I linked CNN just yesterday. So nice lie as usual.
And I don't link opinion pieces unlike your dark Brandon praising salon articles.
You just want to remain intentionally ignorant so your narratives don't self destruct.
And I don’t link opinion pieces
everything at The Federalist is an opinion piece, dumbass
Fatfuck, you’re a stupid oic of shit that exists based on the tolerance of your betters. Betters like us. Given you abject stupidity and the aforementioned dependence on real Americans for your continued existence, perhaps you should STFU and count your blessings.
Whats very odd about your complaints is you never point out how the information I post is wrong. You go straight to ad hominem attacks. You've never actually read anything I linked. Last time you tried this argument you posted opinion articles as proof even though I didn't link those stories. Almost like you are a dishonest obese pedophile Democrat piece of shit =)
Whats very odd about your complaints is you never point out how the information I post is wrong.
yeah actually I do Jesse, several times I have deconstructed your sources and shown how even if the information in it is factually correct, it is misleading because it omits context and leaves out other pertinent information which is intended to leave the reader to a misleading conclusion.
Such as, for instance, your NY Post article about "2% of migrants in NYC sought work permits". I've shown many times how that article is trash. You just ignore the criticism and keep moving right along, preferring to believe in the narrative instead of the truth.
Literally nobody here regularly links to or watches Fox News. If you haven't noticed the GOPe aren't exactly popular here. But you fifty-centers think solely in tropes, don't you?
I don't watch it, but ill link them when the information is relevant. I've never posted anything from their opinion side except for Jonathan Turley.
The funny thing is we read all of Jeff's abd shrikes links. It is why we know jeff post dark Brandon praising salon links. We do so to see how awful their information sources are. Jeff doesn't. He just rushes to attack the source since it is against his preferred narratives.
The funny thing is, Salon is just the flip-side of The Federalist. They are both partisan opinion sites. It's just that only one of us recognizes them BOTH as such.
"Salon is just the flip-side of The Federalist."
Kind of like saying Mein Kampf is the flip side of Archie comics.
Ask Jeff how many reason writers have or currently write for The Federalist and how many write or have written for Salon. He would lose his mind.
Jeff's definition of valid news source seems to be:
A) pulitzer for discredited stories like Trump Russia (WaPo, NYT)
B) Funded by left wing sources (Daily Beast, Salon)
C) Worked with Joe to push censorship (every site he links)
D) Blindly does the bidding of democrats. (Every site he links)
That is his unbiased definition of truth.
Jeff needs a Ministry of Managing MisInformation (MoMMI) headed by a Shenna Bellows type to ensure that the Truth! is what is being allowed out to be certified for the masses.
If people came to a cultural consensus and voluntarily only trusted his narratives, government would need to pass laws or engage.
Kanyay got canceled for saying jews run the media. Just think he would have been held up on a pedastool if he called for their genicide
"Kanyay got canceled for saying jews run the media"
Hmm
In Market Watch today:
"AI could unleash mass unemployment and inequality. Tax the top 1% to ease the pain."
- Robert Shiller and some minions
The steam engine could unleash mass unemployment and inequality. Tax the top 1% to ease the pain.
Electricity could unleash mass unemployment and inequality. Tax the top 1% to ease the pain.
The internet could unleash mass unemployment and inequality. Tax the top 1% to ease the pain.
When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem looks like a greedy capitalist.
Socialism is always their answer.
Bastiat's famous Candlestick makers' Petition
Ooops, should have been a link; try again:
http://bastiat.org/en/petition.html
One could argue that AI is fundamentally different than all of those other disrupting technologies.
Not sure what could or should be done about it, but I think it’s unfair to completely discount the fears of what it will mean for a large swath of the workforce.
Fuck the socialists answers though.
A very interesting essay, thank you.
I don’t think Stefanik asked a “trick” question, however. It truly was “the easiest question to answer ‘yes'” to. Yes, calling for the genocide of anyone would, indeed, be a violation of the university’s code of conduct.
What a lay up! The answer writes itself: a “code of conduct” is a standard for civility, not a legal standard. Under the law, the speech is permissible. But under the code of civility, it is not. Not everything that can be said, ought to be said.
What made those president’s responses so “tone deaf” was how amazingly inarticulate they were. Lawerly, careful, couched, caveated. And therefore utterly unacceptable.
Truth has the quality of clarity. It pares away all distractions. It is elegant, which is not the same thing at all as being simple.
Places generally write codes of conduct while claiming the ability to punish violations of the code. Think of a classic university "honor code" against cheating. Failing to live up to the aspirational bits would not be "violations".
I disagree. What made the responses "tone deaf" was how unlawerly they were. One would hope that lawyers would be trained in law schools on debate skills including logical fallacies and loaded questions. I seem to recall Erle Stanley Gardner having stated that a barrister should never ask a question that she doesn't already know the answer to. One might also suggest that a witness should never take the stand without having rehearsed the answers to all possible questions from lawyers.
There was no logical fallacy nor a loaded question.
"I don’t think Stefanik asked a “trick” question, however."
"Loaded question" - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
It turns out the university presidents were prepped by Harvard's top legal counsel, and their public relations crisis management experts were not consulted. No wonder the answers sounds lawyerly.
University presidents are supposed to be masters of public communications, able to answer tough questions without alienating donors. These 3 couldn't even answer simple questions in a straightforward manner.
Perhaps Harvard needs new legal counsel as well as a new President?
They couldn't very well come right out and say: "We want to be able to stamp out speech we don't like. It so happens that we don't mind calls for genocide of Israelis / Jews."
Yes, calling for the genocide of anyone would, indeed, be a violation of the university’s code of conduct.
THANK YOU! Jeez, is it really that fucking difficult for people to notice shit like this? I can only presume the author was writing from motivated miscomprehension.
Universities have reverted to religious organizations.
Change my mind.
They'll brook no heresy.
Religious organizations typically ask for or expect a tithe from those attending whereas public universities and govt funding of students involves coercively taking it from folks not attending such institutions.
Wouldn’t be surprised if the administrations at universities start donning purple robes and wearing Nike shoes. They have already lobbed off any nuts present.
Isn't this all a day late and a dollar short? The antiwar movement seems to be moving beyond demonstrations, chants and petitions to more direct action - blocking bridges, occupying airports, and other actions designed to confront the state and its role in participating in the genocide of Gaza. None of this is protected speech.
"...The antiwar movement..."
The asshole trueman really has a way with words, doesn't he? I think that's a bowline, right there.
Notice that the "blocking bridges" only takes place in Big Blue Cities where the protestors know that the police will not clear the blockages. I think there's a musical piece recently that says something like, "Don't Try That in a Small Town."
Small towns are not transportation hubs. If you want to fly from small town A to small town B you will often have to pass through a big blue transportation hub, even if you object on ideological grounds, even if you think it violates your free speech rights.
Trueman:
"Hey, look over there!"
What genocide in Gaza?
https://twitter.com/TimOnPoint/status/1740826908206530783?t=Xc6Emwhq3xOkMNVuKySGZQ&s=19
What happens in 2024 when you promise amnesty, but then tell 10,000,000 illegals the the other political party is going to deport all of them?
-There have been more than 276,000 migrant encounters in December so far
-They are releasing 5,000 illegal immigrants a day into the U.S., and that doesn’t include those being paroled in at ports of entry
-82,000 known getaways and 760,000 migrant encounters at the southern border (since Oct 1), making the first quarter of FY 24 the highest quarter on record.
10,000,000 since Biden took office. The Democrats have imported a foreign army. What do you think they'll do with it? There is absolutely no way you can convince me that there's not a dark purpose to this.
[Link]
https://twitter.com/TheRealZBlog/status/1741091394670698736?t=hDEOStrpeu2ToGq0XyV4wg&s=19
Notice how all of these guys are saying exactly the same thing, as if they are working from a script or maybe a private list where they coordinate their responses to things like this. Journolist has been replaced with hack-o-rama list.
[Link]
https://twitter.com/fentasyl/status/1740779371529740380?t=1EXfOyl3Ku6MKKFBpiiIAg&s=19
Since August, there are officially more arriving each month than there are children being born to American mothers.
And these are just the official encounters -- we don't know how many avoided detection.
[Link]
The great replacement is just a right wing talking point.
Saw a graphic on that too on a libertarian TG channel. On another channel, posted this morning but not yet verified, is a video of a southern border crossing where dozens of livestock trucks full of illegals were crossing at speed. Hopefully they are headed to sanctuary cities.
As others have pointed out the problem here is that Reason has apparently suddenly discovered that free speech is at risk. The writers here spent years telling us that Internet censorship was no problem because it only involved private companies. Even when it was obvious that those companies were censoring only one side of the argument. ENB even let that mask slip when Musk threatened to end ideological censorship on Twitter. She went into total meltdown and posted instructions on how to switch to the pro censorship Mastodon site. What a lot of us found disturbing was that cultural acceptance of censorship had become the norm. Reason seemed blissfully unaware and in fact tacitly promoted it. I don't have any problem with this particular article other than the fact that it burns up a lot of words to say not very much. The problem is that, as usual, it's too little too late.
I take exception to your lumping all Reason writers together on this issue. Free speech and censorship are NOT simple issues to discuss. The complexities include: what is speech; in what ways can speech be made not free; does free speech include the right to make someone listen; does free speech include 140 dB loudspeakers from the street outside a private residence at 1 AM; and what constitutes official censorship as opposed to "censorship" by private actors on private "property?" Reason writers have presented a range of opinions about all of those details. It seems fair to me for us to argue about those details without running down Reason generally.
They are simple issues and the reality is - who on the staff cared when it was conservative oxes being gored? How many articles told us it was ok - Twitter and Facebook and Harvard are private entities so, legally, they can do what they want and it doesn't count as censorship?
"who on the staff cared when it was conservative oxes being gored?"
It's a fair question, but it's only a question. You obviously have an opinion about bias on the Reason staff. Since bias is everywhere and almost totally unavoidable, a person who actually cares about what's happening will read a range of opinions from a different sources to internally check on possible biases. The answer to biased "private" entities is competition from entities from a different bias, not to try to force "private" entities away from their biases.
We're talking about Reason and Reason's biases, not about how to get 'balance'.
Well again the problem I have with Reason is their constant lecturing about who is and isn't bound by 1A. It's not complicated and we all get it. Twitter didn't break any laws when they banned Trump. But prior to his election no news outlet would have dreamed of censoring a sitting president. But all of the old rules vanished because Trump. We've seen the ramifications in real time where for instance majorities of GenZ support not only censorship but prosecution of those they disagree with. This was a major cultural shift and it seems to me that libertarians should have reacted with full throated condemnation whatever their opinions of Trump or anybody else. But we sure didn't see that here or over at the ACLU. I think Robby finally noticed when the Twitter files came out even though Biden's press secretary had already told us from the white house podium that the 1A was being violated by the adults in the room. I'm not bothered that Reason is actually ambivalent about free speech and ENB at least is actually hostile to it. I'm bothered that they claim to be "libertarian".
When you can find a source of information and opinion that is more libertarian than Reason, please let me know. Reason is my preferred source because of the wide range of current events and issues covered here by contributors and the (relatively) large number and range of commenters who bother to comment here. I have never learned much from echo chambers and I think I learn a lot more from hearing the opinions of libertarians and others.
End non-consensual taxpayer funding of colleges.
What about ending the non-consensual funding for wars in Israel, Ukraine, Syria, and so on. The House Speaker's first act of office was to provide over 14 billion for war in Israel, and any funding of colleges from this money would go to subsidizing Israeli socialized education and health care.
"...and any funding of colleges from this money would go to subsidizing Israeli socialized education and health care.'
Sumbitch lies like a rug.
Misconstrueman, I oppose all foreign US military bases, membership in NAFO, and taxpayer funded materiel and monetary packages to foreign nations. Any individual American that wants to GoFundMe a foreign organization or write a check to an embassy should not be interfered by the US govt in doing so (unless war were declared).
Why not say so in the first place instead of having to be browbeaten into admitting your antiwar inclinations?
See, it's YOUR fault that trueman makes bone-headed assumptions!
The article is regarding colleges and hence the post. I didn’t talk about horses, horseshoe crabs, or crab cakes either. Your chaff and redirect whataboutism was indulged though I could have just pointed that out. I have posted that foreign policy position before. Your strawman will be pointed out: I’m not anti-war, I follow the NAP.
"I didn’t talk about horses, horseshoe crabs, or crab cakes either. "
You talked about something equally irrelevant. Ending public funding to education in the US will not prevent students from calling for a ceasefire, chanting slogans or wearing checkered scarves. I'm glad my comment prompted you to reiterate your views on more substantial issues.
It is relevant. Taxpayers should not be coerced into funding the speech of others. The speech should be protected but not subsidized.
"Taxpayers should not be coerced into funding the speech of others."
But that's not happening. Paying students $US250 to attend pro Israel rallies is not coming from public funds. It comes from private funds. The 14 billion being given to the Israelis to fund their war is coming from public funds. Surely you don't need me to tell you this.
“The microgrant offered by the ICC was for reimbursement for up to $250 for expenses to get to the March For Israel rally in D.C. That rally, organized by the Jewish Federations of North America (JFNA), has three goals, JFNA CEO Eric Fingerhut told the Times of Israel.”
Subsidizing the students attending the universities is happening. Surely you don’t need me to tell you this.
"Subsidizing the students attending the universities is happening."
Suspending those subsidies isn't going to prevent students from calling for a ceasefire, chanting slogans you'd prefer not to hear, wearing checkered scarves or any of the other antisemitic activities kids these days indulge in.
Nobody should be forced to subsidize any speech. I oppose the current situation of me being coerced into funding all of them. If a benefactor or group wants to do so with their own money, have at it.
I would bet that it would do exactly that.
Once you take away the tax money, universities need to be able to produce value for the money the student's *parents* are paying into it.
And having time to sit in the Queer Palestininan Terrorist Studies classes won't be profitable anymore.
"I would bet that it would do exactly that."
Isn't that a good reason to oppose it? What's with this sudden desire to suppress the speech of students?
Subsetting coerced funding = suppressing speech?
" suppressing speech?"
Isn't that the point? Agammamon takes umbrage at the idea of students sitting in classes of Queer Palestinian Terrorist studies. You're telling me you don't?
He is suggesting that classes such as his hyperbole would no longer exist because folks would be personally be responsible for the actual cost of attending them and likely matriculate to something providing more value.
If those classes exist where I’m not being forced to fund them, I may still ridicule them as a poor value/waste of time but c’est la vie.
"If those classes exist where I’m not being forced to fund them,"
I take your point. The public is funding universities to teach classes you may not approve of. But these protests and demonstrations aren't being publically funded. The funds that were given to the students to attend the pro Israeli demonstrations came from private sources.
Do you think the “Queer Palestinian Terrorist Studies” type classes should be funded through coerced taxes?
"Do you think the “Queer Palestinian Terrorist Studies” type classes should be funded through coerced taxes?"
It's not something I care about. I'm more concerned with the billions used to fund genocide.
You spent a couple posts with that as a topic and now take a pass.
We agree on the foreign funding (at least pertaining to this).
"You spent a couple posts with that as a topic and now take a pass."
Because cutting public funding to universities won't stop the demonstrations. No public money is being spent to subsidize opposition to Israel. It's an absurd charge.
The people present at college are largely being subsidized to be there. Let them fully fund their own tuition and leave coercing taxpayer money out of it.
"The people present at college are largely being subsidized to be there. Let them fully fund their own tuition and leave coercing taxpayer money out of it."
We've come full circle. You're back to whining about public funds being spent to educate young people. Small potatoes compared to vastly greater public funds going to promote vastly greater atrocities.
Either/or fallacy. Thanks. I’ve consistently and frequently opposed US govt providing foreign aid. Keep chaffing and directing away from taxpayer subsidizing universities.
" I’ve consistently and frequently opposed US govt providing foreign aid."
You could always be more strident in your opposition. This habit of letting yourself be distracted by these culture war shenanigans isn't helping us anti-war types at all.
More chaff and redirect, doubling down on the fallacy.
>mtrueman 1 hour ago
>” suppressing speech?”
>Isn’t that the point? Agammamon takes umbrage at the idea of students sitting in classes of Queer Palestinian Terrorist studies. You’re telling me you don’t?
What's funny here is that even though we can all see what I actually wrote - its right here in this very page - you still decide to blatantly lie and say I wrote something I didn't.
Either you're lying, or you're hallucinating.
"Either you’re lying, or you’re hallucinating."
Maybe you could clarify. How is stopping the public funding of academic fields you disapprove of going to stop students from attending demonstrations, chanting slogans or wearing checkered scarves?
>mtrueman
>Maybe you could clarify. How is stopping the public funding of academic fields you disapprove of going to stop students from attending demonstrations, chanting slogans or wearing checkered scarves?
Oh, that's *easy* - they'll have to STUDY. So they won't have the time for bullshit activities.
"So they won’t have the time for bullshit activities."
They have to right to engage in bullshit activities. They don't need your permission or your approval. You're acting like a resentful, embittered old man. I'm quite happy to see today's youth courageously standing up for truth, justice and the American way. You come across as a Stalinist apparatchik eager to crush dissidence.
My not funding you is not the same as preventing you from doing something.
You are free to speak - no one has an obligation to help you do so.
" no one has an obligation to help you do so."
You are obliged to protect the free speech of others, even if you disagree with what they might be saying.
>mtrueman
” no one has an obligation to help you do so.”
>You are obliged to protect the free speech of others, even if you disagree with what they might be saying.
I have no such obligation. No one does.
Even if I did - not helping you speak is not the same as preventing you from speaking.
"I have no such obligation. No one does."
Tell that to the IRS. The fact is that protecting your rights has a cost.
A good recipe for crab cakes is worth more than the entirety
of mtrumans comment history.
Pan fried >> baked
Dash of Old Bay on top
He has said such many times dumdum.
The asshole knows that of most all of us here, but how is he to continue making an ass of himself by sticking to the facts?
Yes. End those two. Including the non-consenual interference in the war against Hamas by Israel.
Biden administration needs to stop pressuring them to do or not do anything. Let the fuckers duke it out until only one remains.
The locals should be figuring things out without the $300B of US taxpayer money already gifted.
I’m ok if two parties ask for a third party to mediate to try and provide perspective to each/find common ground to work from.
That's not what happened though.
The US interjected itself into this.
It would have been better had the money never gone to them so that butting in would be less likely. Iirc, the Bible says that the borrower becomes a slave to the lender and in part this applies here.
It could also just be Biden playing the plausible deniability card; have seen some stories about additional aid going there.
What about ending the non-consensual funding for wars in Israel, Ukraine, Syria, and so on.
It's a deal: we eliminate all funding for wars in Israel, Ukraine, and Syria AND we end all public funding for colleges, professors, staff, students, research, etc. at public and private universities.
Do you take that deal?
I have nothing against educating young people, and I don't really care if they are educated via public or private funding. It's education, the fostering of the potential of young people to flourish and contribute, that I support.
Wars, on the other hand, I oppose. They cause destruction, particularly of young people and steal their future. I'm anti war and I'm against war that is publicly funded and against war that is privately funded.
The 'deal' you propose is absurd and I reject it out of hand. Come back to me when you have a serious offer.
The ‘deal’ you propose is absurd and I reject it out of hand.
OK, so you oppose libertarianism, free markets, and individual liberties. Good to know.
It’s education, the fostering of the potential of young people to flourish and contribute, that I support.
Then you should oppose public education, because it is failing miserably.
"OK, so you oppose libertarianism, free markets, and individual liberties."
I oppose the deal you proposed. In case you missed it, I'll repeat it a third time for you. I oppose the deal you propose.
"because it is failing miserably."
Not my concern. The empire failing miserably is a positive as far as I'm concerned.
“OK, so you oppose libertarianism, free markets, and individual liberties.”
I oppose the deal you proposed. In case you missed it, I’ll repeat it a third time for you. I oppose the deal you propose.
The deal I propose is the libertarian and free market position: no funding for wars, no funding for public education, no subsidies for private education.
Therefore: you reject the libertarian/free market position.
Not my concern. The empire failing miserably is a positive as far as I’m concerned.
So let's be clear here: you literally, explicitly said that it is good that the US educational system is failing US students; that it produces graduates who can't read, write, do math, or have job skills. You are saying that that is good because it causes the US to collapse. Thanks for being so honest.
"you literally, explicitly said that it is good that the US educational system is failing US students; that it produces graduates who can’t read, write, do math, or have job skills. "
It's the whole damn depraved empire I'm anxious to see fall. If Americans want to educate themselves, they can always open a book. You should try it sometime. I certainly beats the propaganda that you mistake for learning.
It’s the whole damn depraved empire I’m anxious to see fall.
Yes, you made that abundantly clear. You don't care about the misery that brings not just to hundreds of millions of Americans, but billions of people around the world
If Americans want to educate themselves, they can always open a book. You should try it sometime. I certainly beats the propaganda that you mistake for learning.
Oh, my poor, dear, ignorant child, take your own advice.
"You don’t care about the misery that brings not just to hundreds of millions of Americans, but billions of people around the world"
If you've found a way to avoid the misery, let us know. I believe a hard day's rain is gonna fall.
See, this is why I just muted the fucker. Two comments ago he was saying that not paying for that system was evil because it's educational, now he wants to keep it because its not.
Trueman, just go fucking drown yourself already.
"Trueman, just go fucking drown yourself already."
Let me know if you can muster anything of substance. School yard taunts don't count.
I'm in!
I chortled. The regime has been censoring and suppressing conservative free speech for a decade.
If you mean that childish superstition (and related nonsense), unreconstructed conservative bigotry, and belligerent, backwater ignorance are increasingly out of style in America -- especially in the educated, modern, accomplished communities -- your point is sound.
If you try a little harder you would not have to settle for arrogance. You could go for elitist!
He knows in his heart he’s no one’s better, and so he couldn’t.
Fuck off and die, asshole bigot.
"The ploy had its intended effect. The three presidents all stumbled into the trap by accepting the unstated premise ..."
Although I have no sympathy for the plight of university presidents, what university would want a person so clueless and unsophisticated for their presidents that they blindly "stumble into" one of the simplest and most basic of debate tactics? The answer to loaded "yes or no" questions of the general category, "Have you stopped beating your wife?" is: "I categorically reject the assumptions implicit in your question!" A more responsive way to answer the Congress critter's question might have been, "Free speech is the official policy of Harvard University, although my predecessors have not always been faithful to that policy."
Mr. Corn-Revere reveals his blind spot when he relies on the partisan FIRE rankings (which excoriate strong, modern, reasoning schools such as Harvard and Penn while issuing undeserved passes to hundreds of censorship-shackled, dogma-enforcing, nonsense-teaching, conservative-controlled, academic freedom-flouting schools).
FIRE engages in this shitty, disingenuous conduct to flatter superstitious clingers and other right-wing donors.
Why would he do this? Mr. Corn-Revere apparently taught at a superstition-based school for decades, so adult-onset superstition might be involved.
Mr. Cornhole-Revere.
Fuck off and die, asshole bigot. Make your family proud.
Open wider, clinger. Your betters are not nearly through shoving more progress down the throats of disaffected, antisocial, contrarian, faux libertarian, bigoted, right-wing culture war rejects.
Fuck off and die, asshole bigot. Make your family proud.
Even that wouldn't do the trick, he's such a disappointment.
As long as your assertion concerning FIRE remains unsupported with any shred of evidence it may be safely ignored.
Check the rankings at the FIRE website.
Those partisan assholes rank Harvard and Penn -- but not Liberty, Biola, Franciscan, Wheaton, Regent, Ave Maria, Ouachita Baptist, and hundreds of censorship-shackled, academic freedom-disdaining, dogma-enforcing, nonsense-teaching, conservative-controlled slack-jaw factories -- among the worst campuses for free expression in modern America.
Other than that, great comment, clinger!
Fuck off and die, asshole bigot.
You get to whine and whimper -- even rail and flail, mutter and sputter -- about it as much as you like, clinger, but you will continue to comply with the preferences of better Americans for the rest of your deplorable, worthless life.
Fuck off and die, asshole bigot
And you and your family will be hiding in a safe room, waiting for the inevitable, hicklib.
My side has won the culture war. That's what makes you antisocial misfits so desperate, disaffected, and delusional.
I don't suppose it has occurred to you that FIRE might not try to rank every one of the over 4,000 degree-granting educational institutions in the United States? Of the seven academic institutions you posted, I had never before heard of ANY of them and could not care less how they might rank on FIRE's free speech polls. I doubt that I would bother polling the 3,499 students at Biola University if I were FIRE. They might want to concentrate on - I dunno - maybe the 250 largest universities, like University of Pennsylvania's over 28,000 students.
"As private schools, Harvard, Penn, and MIT are not bound to follow the First Amendment"
It seems to me that the line between public and private in this context is seriously blurred when they all accept funding from the Federal and State government. What test should be applied to determine this? Fifty percent of their operating budget plus $1 or the ownership on the property records?
My opinion? You accept a single cent or other favor from the federal or state government and you're a de-facto state agency with all the restrictions that imposes.
Fuck 'em.
You wanna do what you want? Then stay off the taxpayer's teat.
With a robust exemption for superstition-based, slack-jawed, censorship-shackled, nonsense-teaching conservative schools?
Fuck off and die, asshole bigot.
You can whine and seethe all day long, clinger, because faux libertarian bigots have rights, too . . . but it won't influence the trajectory of the great American culture war or your status as a loser in that contest.
Fuck off and die, asshole bigot.
If the federal government doesn't give a dime to any education institution for any reason, then none of this really matters.
#defundDoE
Actually, it is your understanding of the First Amendment that is blurred. Contrary to what you may believe, government employees and government funded individuals can be subject to government imposed restrictions on their speech; in fact, some restrictions are required by government. If you don't like those restrictions, don't become a government employee.
No, I understand that very well. In fact one of my criticisms of the federal income tax has been how officials can siphon off private funds from the states in order to give the money back to the states with strings attached. I'm well aware of the myriad of grant and assistance programs to educational institutions requiring them to follow regulations that they might not have to comply with if they accepted no government funding. Where the blurring occurs is when the regulations imposed would be unconstitutional if not for the "voluntary" aspect of accepting funds. How voluntary is it really?
Robert - why didn't you speak up when the campuses were preventing and censoring speech you didn't approve of? Why are you now on this warpath because people seek to stop others from calling for not just violence, but actual ethnic cleansing of Jews?
Why was it tolerable before but a great danger the 'right wing' shouldn't go down?
Universities have been calling for ethnic cleansing of white people for decades.
Think the media has been whitewashing this?
... and before that they were calling for ethnic cleansing of non-white people for centuries. What's your point?
>The presidents gave legally correct but tone-deaf responses that the answer was "context-dependent" and that such speech might be actionable if it crossed the line and became misconduct, such as targeted discriminatory harassment. All true, but not a satisfactory answer to a trick question.
But it wasn't a trick question. It was asking for clarification as to why this was allowed but other speech - speech less violent and horrific - was censored by these same colleges. Its ok to call for the extermination of Jews but not to accept someone's pronouns as given?
"Rep. Elise Stefanik asked the presidents ... whether "calling for the genocide of Jews" violates each university's code of conduct, "yes or no?" COMPARED TO "It was asking for clarification as to why this was allowed but other speech – speech less violent and horrific – was censored by these same colleges."
One cannot reconcile what she actually asked with your interpretation of the question without serious spin. Sorry, but your apologia is a thinly-disguised near transparent pretense that a loaded question was, instead, "an honest attempt to elicit thoughtful responses for how to address a difficult and complex problem."
>The ploy had its intended effect. The three presidents all stumbled into the trap by accepting the unstated premise, thus opening the door to charges that they were insensitive to the demonstrable rise in antisemitism on campus and hypocritical for citing free speech principles when—let's face it—the institutions they lead had shown a notable lack of concern for the First Amendment in the enforcement of their speech codes.
'republicans pounce'.
Or, it could be that they gave an answer that merely highlighted their hypocrisy. Hypocrisy so deep-seated they didn't even know it existed. We should thank the people that exposed their privilege to their conscious examination that they may then go and 'do better'.
>In practice, however, their records have been abysmal. Harvard and Penn scored at the bottom of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression's (FIRE) latest campus free speech report, and MIT, while in the middle of the pack among the schools surveyed, has a history of selective enforcement against speech it disfavors.
In other words - there was no trap.
There was just three people who couldn't come up with a principled defense of what they had been doing that wasn't going to be incredibly offensive to people outside their bubble.
They did what they did and they didn't want to admit why they did it. That's the extent of the trap, if you can call it that. Maybe, if they had had a set of lady-balls between them, they might have just stood up and proudly announced they were anti-semites and marxists grasping for power and all this is just as planned.
At least that would have shown some courage.
"At least that would have shown some courage."
Perhaps they felt intimidated. Wasn't that the point of the whole exercise?
Wait, its bad when they feel intimidated - but its ok when they do the intimidating?
Maybe they felt intimidated because, once they got outside their bubble of violence, they realized the fucking normies don't like that crap?
Not saying it's bad or good. You were pondering over their milquetoast responses. I suggested they felt intimidated.
" the fucking normies don’t like that crap?'
They were brought before congress. Hardly normies. Elites posing as normies, perhaps, but still not the same thing.
Finkelstein: "Because too much free speech on campus "emphasizes skills that pose the greatest challenge to our democracy.""
And ... there it is! "Our Democracy " Free speech rights are not now, never were and will never be about preserving democracy - ours or anyone else's! Free speech rights - whether maintained against government authority or privately on the airwaves, in print or over the cable - are about liberty. Everything else is either in aid of liberty or in opposition to it. It's one of the few absolutes with almost no shades of gray involved. Democracy can be a tool to preserve freedom; or a tool of abuse by the majority or a powerful plurality against freedom. Government can be a tool to protect individual rights when properly limited constitutionally and enforced by the judicial branch; or a mechanism of oppression.
It was a turning point all right. "Words are violence" was the screed previously, now it "depends on the context" if calling for genocide or launching a global terror campaign ("intifada") or intimidating students because of their religion or ethnic background is okay or not.
^ This! Well said ...
Newsweek
Mass layoffs are in store for 2024, and it might end up affecting nearly half of companies, according to a new poll.
Industry-wise, construction and software companies were by far the most likely to predict layoffs in the next year, at 66 and 65 percent, respectively.
Meanwhile, information, retail and finance and insurance companies will likely see some employee turmoil as well, with 44 percent of information and retail companies and 38 percent of finance companies saying layoffs are anticipated.
Hope none of the fifty-centers get downsized
Half of then are paid with funds from the treasury or government. Bet the under on number of 50 centers laid off.
Tony and Mike the sea lion may be casualties of Bidenflation.
Typical
https://twitter.com/jpodhoretz/status/1740929308229832780?t=3_V0n1ZGk56W35PD5Ctwyw&s=19
I know both @benshapiro and @TuckerCarlson well. I gave Tucker his start in the majors. Here’s what I know. Ben loves America. Tucker hates America. Didn’t use to. But now he does. Ben always has and will never stop. That is all. Nothing more to be said.
But I also would have said that the First Amendment protects hate speech and allows all ideas and views to be expressed, including deeply offensive ones. Even advocacy of genocide is within the speech protected by the First Amendment.
It's obvious why they couldn't say that—for decades, they've been trying to silence speech they don't like by labeling it "hate" and "offensive". They've been punishing students, faculty, and staff for "hate" or "offensive" speech directed against any "marginalized" group they hold on their laps. Blacks, illegal immigrants, lesbians, Muslims, trannies, women hypersensitive to male advances, Hispanics, etc., etc., etc., all have to be protected from offense by restricting the speech, and in many cases the mere presence, of anyone who might annoy them. But not Jews. When Jews are targeted with harsh and violent speech, all of the sudden they want to carefully draw the lines around conduct codes and free expression principles to allow highly offensive and aggressive speech. It is this hypocritical turn on a dime that so many are offended by, and the obvious bigotry in suddenly choosing just one minority group to be unworthy of protection from denigration.
Well put.
"When Jews are targeted with harsh and violent speech, all of the sudden they want to carefully draw the lines around conduct codes and free expression principles to allow highly offensive and aggressive speech."
Jews weren't targeted. The demonstrations were pro Palestine, anti Israel. Many of the demonstrators were Jewish opponents to the ongoing genocidal policies of Israel, and the American establishment that funds them, cheers them on and makes it possible.
"Blacks, illegal immigrants, lesbians, Muslims, trannies, women hypersensitive to male advances, Hispanics, etc., etc., etc., all have to be protected from offense by restricting the speech, and in many cases the mere presence, of anyone who might annoy them."
This has nothing to do with the ongoing protests, which are targeting Israel and American support for.
Jews weren’t targeted. The demonstrations were pro Palestine, anti Israel.
The ideology of Hamas (and the majority of Palestinian) is Islamic world domination, with all Jews and atheists eventually eliminated.
That is why pro-Palestinian protests are anti-Jewish, not merely anti-Israel.
"The ideology of Hamas (and the majority of Palestinian) is Islamic world domination, with all Jews and atheists eventually eliminated. "
None of that is relevant. The demonstrators at the ivy league campuses are not members of Hamas, they are not Palestinians, but American students. Many of them are Jewish. Do your research.
This insistence to conflate criticism of Israel with hatred of Jews is propaganda.
It is absolutely relevant - these people, with these views, will be trying to get jobs in government, politics, and law in order to influence the future.
They're the seeds of future genocide.
Get a grip. Less hysteria, less emotion, less intemperance. It will do you good. Don't think that parroting propaganda is a good substitute for independent, informed thought.
Best to ship them to their beloved Palestine now, then.
The demonstrators at the ivy league campuses are not members of Hamas, they are not Palestinians, but American students
They are demonstrating in support of a genocidal, intolerant, murderous ideology, and ideology that is little different from Nazi ideology. Universities are under no obligation to tolerate such behavior.
Those checkered scarves really bother you, don't they. They also call for a ceasefire. The Horror!
Hamas can have a ceasefire any time they want: by releasing the hostages, ending their declaration of war, and surrendering.
Until they do, Israel is perfectly within its right to keep bombing Gaza.
The civilian casualties are solely the responsibility of Hamas.
"Hamas can have a ceasefire any time they want"
Again, Hamas want a lot more than a ceasefire. They want an end to occupation. You're still not paying attention. Try something other than parroting propaganda for a change. If Israel drops the apartheid, then peace may stand a chance. If apartheid is so precious to Israel more attacks like the Al Aqsa Flood are all but guaranteed. Hamas leadership has promised as much, if you'd only take them seriously, you'd know this.
"The civilian casualties are solely the responsibility of Hamas."
Aren't you doing those IDF soldiers a great disservice? Do you not give them credit for any of their accomplishments? Getting into airplanes, risking their lives to deliver the bombs, does it mean nothing to you?
ongoing genocidal policies of Israel
Worst genocide ever...
"Worst genocide ever…"
Worst? Isn't this the first genocide you've cheered on from the sidelines? I suspect you had no trouble opposing the genocides in Cambodia, Rwanda, or Bosnia etc. Now you've got yourself a genocide you can get behind. Best genocide ever might be a more suitable response.
Fuck off and die, Nazi shit-pile.
The Israelis are just really bad at genocide.
I mean, the population of Gaza increased faster than the population of Israel despite all the genocide going on. Life in the 'open air prison' was so horrible, especially when the prison guards left and cleared out the Israeli settlements on their way out and left the inmates to rule over themselves.
Said inmates who spent the whole time lobbing rockets over the walls they couldnt climb over (despite living in luxury in Qatar) and building multi-kilometer long tunnel complexes complete with power and air conditioning.
"The Israelis are just really bad at genocide."
They're getting better, aren't they? Surely you'll give them that much. Finally we get a genocide we can all get behind and cheer on, and you have to be the party pooper.
The real spectacle will begin when better Americans stop providing the political, military, and economic skirts Israel has been operating behind for decades.
Couldn't happen to a better bunch of superstitious right-wing assholes.
the ongoing genocidal policies of Israel
Palestinians are not a "gens" that can be "cided"; they are simply a population of extremist Muslim Arabs that happened to end up in a territory controlled legitimately by Israel.
"Palestinians are not a “gens” that can be “cided"
That's a new one for me. Whose line is that? Palestinians can't be killed? Is that really a reflection of your analysis? My God, NOYB2, you write some stupid things.
Fick off and die, Nazi shit.
Palestinians do not constitute a distinct ethnicity; they are simply Muslim Arabs who happen to live in a particular location. Therefore, the term "genocide" doesn't apply.
"Palestinians do not constitute a distinct ethnicity; they are simply Muslim Arabs who happen to live in a particular location. Therefore, the term “genocide” doesn’t apply."
You're clearly unfamiliar with the meaning of the word. Look it up and then get back to me. In the meantime, keep your idiotic ideas to yourself.
genocide: The systematic and widespread extermination or attempted extermination of a national, racial, religious, or ethnic group
Palestinians are just Muslim Arabs. Israel isn't exterminating either Muslims or Arabs as a group; in fact, two million Muslim Arabs are thriving in Israel.
And Palestinians are not an ethnic group or a nation either.
Therefore, Israel is not committing genocide, by definition.
" Israel isn’t exterminating either Muslims or Arabs as a group; in fact, two million Muslim Arabs are thriving in Israel."
So Palestinians are being exterminated, but not as a group? You're serious, right?
Palestinians declared war on Israel and Israel is responding. There is no "extermination" nor "genocide".
"There is no “extermination” nor “genocide”"
Because the people of Gaza are Muslim Arabs, but not a group of Muslim Arabs. You told me already.
"...Because the people of Gaza are Muslim Arabs, but not a group of Muslim Arabs. You told me already."
trueman can be a purposely obtuse pile of shit, can't he?
Fuck off and die in a fire, asshole.
I prefer "West Jordanians" because "Palestine" is a colonialist name given to the region by the Romans. The proper name of the area is "Judea". 😀
The Jews were absolutely targeted.
1. The 'pro-Palestine' protests explicitly called for the extermination of the Jews.
2. That's it.
Wearing a checkered scarf and calling for a ceasefire isn't targeting anyone. Get a grip.
Groom river, wider than a mile.
Young boys will make him smile, some day.
Oh Tim Hortons, unslim distortin’
Wherever he’s going, wants underage play.
Blue grifter, off to see the world,
There’s such a lot of tales to read,
He’s after the same rainbow rear end,
Baiting for that blend,
Buttfuckleberry friend,
Groom river and him.
“Restricting speech about the world's most pressing problems does not make them go away, nor does it settle any disputes.“
Have you talked to a Lefty in the past 7-8 years? They are completely fine using ALL the Authoritarian means of Government to silence Truth.
Even more thoughtful commentators, like The Washington Post's Ruth Marcus, have suggested that free speech may be a good thing and all, but that "the full contours of the First Amendment" should not apply "in the university setting." Apparently, the times are just too tough or university students too fragile to endure the rigors that come with freedom of speech.
Am I the last person in the Solar System to recognize that "the full contours of the First Amendment" have never been enjoyed in the University setting?
I'm trying to figure out how anyone with more than 2 brain cells thinks anyone at WaPo is capable of providing thoughtful commentary. You have to be severely authoritarian, partisan, deranged and stupid to get there .
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
A Florida woman is upset about the lack of designs on Reese's holiday-themed peanut butter candy - and now she's taking parent company Hershey to court over it.
Cynthia Kelly filed a federal class-action lawsuit Thursday in the U.S. District Court in the Middle District of Florida, alleging several Reese's products don't match their photos as depicted on the wrappers.
For example, Reese's peanut butter pumpkins are merely pumpkin-shaped hunks of peanut-butter-stuffed chocolate, and the actual product has no Jack O'lantern-style carvings as the wrapper depicts, Kelly alleges.
She says the same is true for the peanut butter footballs and bats, as well as the white chocolate ghosts.
The suit says Kelly bought a bag of peanut butter pumpkins for $4.49 at an Aldi in Hillsborough County, Florida in late October 2023.
Kelly "believed that the product contained a cute-looking carving of a pumpkin's mouth and eyes as pictured on the product packaging," according to the suit.
Another photo in the suit shows a candy football with no carved lines for football stitching.
"Looks like eggs," words on the picture say.
"Plaintiff and the members of the Class have been aggrieved by Defendant's unfair and deceptive practices," the suit reads. "They purchased the Products with the reasonable expectation that the Products would look similar to the pictures displayed on the Products' packaging."
- reported by CBS
Find for the plaintiff and award her $4.49 in damages.
*-*4.49 in damages.
It's really not hard to understand. I think Reason is playing deliberately obtuse.
It's okay to criticize Israel. Hell, it's okay (if racist) to criticize Jews.
It's not okay to call for the genocide of Jews. Especially when it's accompanied by riots and targeting of Jewish (not Israeli) owned businesses.
That is how pogroms happen. That's how the Holocaust happened. Constant incitement of killing Jews became normalized in Germany.
The world is watching these dirty Jews committing genocide, terrorism, apartheid and crimes against humanity. Just like we’re watching them advocate it here on this comments section.
Hatred is conflict. Conflict in speech originates from lying. Who isn’t in conflict with these lying wastes of skin whose religion advocates lying while they commit crimes against humanity? Only the bad guys.
Pogroms? Hell, Jews have been hated for their actions for millennia. History repeats itself when we don’t learn from it.
Jews are committing a holocaust in Gaza with our tax dollars and western governments help. They certainly haven’t learned anything.
Fuck off and die, Nazi shit.
But when the Gazans were doing it you turned your gaze away and covered your ears so you didn't hear the sound of the rockets and the rapes.
Not sure what you expect from Herr Misek
"Joining in with the rape" if he can?
“It’s really not hard to understand. I think Reason is playing deliberately obtuse.”
They’re absolutely being intentionally obtuse.
“No justice, no peace” is arguably a call for vigilantism, but it’s not targeted at any one group and is generally taken as militant protest rhetoric. Schools should not lose funding over allowing such speech on campus. A student organization known for antisemtism and harassment of Jews chanting “infitada” and “from river to the sea” weeks after a 9/11 level terrorism on the state of Israel can be reasonably interpreted as calls for genocide, or at minimum creating a hostile environment for Jewish students.
“Stop the brown invasion” can only be interpreted as one way. It is not a call to end illegal immigration, which is a legitimate position. “Send them all back to Manzanar” is targeted towards a certain group, even if it does not mention it by name. The connotation is clear. Only a truly ignorant individual would strain for “context” in the name of free speech.
Just think back to how these schools reacted to anything related to BLM. Nothing but righteous outrage, condemnation of the entire nation, pledges to protect the “victims”. They cancelled classes if a string was found on a tree branch. No searching for context there. It’s either mind boggling hypocrisy or being obtuse.
Keep it simple. If these schools expelled students for wearing insensitive Halloween custom, they should be expected to be similarly harsh on the Jew haters. “What about free speech” is irrelevant, they’re allowed to have speech code on campus, and must be held to consistent standard. If you want total free speech on campus, push legislation or pressure the school to reform their speech code. We shouldn’t let these oily weasels to become selective to protect their own in the name of free speech.
The problem is that the school officials do not practice what they preach when it comes to the Jews and free speech. Say something negative about the LGBTQ community or blacks, and you'll be thrown out of college. These college presidents would put out statements how its hate speech and they will not have it on college campus, but when it comes to the attacking Jews, free speech is paramount.
"but when it comes to the attacking Jews, free speech is paramount."
Students at ivy league campuses aren't attacking Jews. They are demonstrating against the state of Israel in favor of the Palestinians. You seem to have fallen victim to the propaganda trope conflating criticism of Israel with criticism of Jews. In fact, many of the student protesting against Israel are Jews. You need to be more discerning in you news gathering. Show some skepticism.
"Students at ivy league campuses aren’t attacking Jews. They are demonstrating against the state of Israel in favor of the Palestinians..."
And masks WORK!
Wow, you've got eight grey boxes in a row after that comment! Must be a cripple fight.
Breathes on fingernails, polishes them on shirt front.
They are demonstrating against the state of Israel in favor of the Palestinians.
Yes: they are demonstrating in favor of a regime and ideology that is little different from the Nazis, and in fact, collaborated with the Nazis in WWII. They are demonstrating in favor of a regime and ideology that wants to murder not just Jews, but also homosexuals and atheists.
"They are demonstrating in favor of a regime and ideology that wants to murder not just Jews, but also homosexuals and atheists."
They also favor checkered scarves. If Hamas was so horrifying, why did Bibi sent them, until recently, regular suitcases of cash, to strengthen them and support their efforts to stymie a two state solution. Perhaps Bibi knows something you don't. You are more than willing to swallow outrageous propaganda and slurs against the Palestinians and are determined to ignore reality. It diminishes the value of your contributions. Be skeptical. Question authority.
You are more than willing to swallow outrageous propaganda and slurs against the Palestinians
To the contrary, I used to be far more sympathetic to Palestinians, until I actually understood their history and their belief system.
why did Bibi sent them, until recently, regular suitcases of cash, to strengthen them and support their efforts to stymie a two state solution
Because Hamas was the government of Gaza and Israelis actually thought that they might be able to gradually pacify and mollify Palestinians with humanitarian aid. 10/7 demonstrated the folly of this. Palestinians have always rejected a two-state solution and are unwilling to accept it now.
"Because Hamas was the government of Gaza and Israelis actually thought that they might be able to gradually pacify and mollify Palestinians with humanitarian aid. "
You really thought that Palestinians would accept their status as second class citizens under an apartheid regime and learn to love their open air prison? You're not paying attention. Be skeptical. Question authority.
You really thought that Palestinians would accept their status as second class citizens under an apartheid regime
Until 10/7, Gaza was self-governing. Israel had no hand in running it. Hamas, not Israel, made the lives of Gazans miserable.
and learn to love their open air prison?
Well, they better learn to love it now, because that's what's going to happen when this war is over: Gaza will be militarily occupied and its people forcibly reeducated. That's the consequence of adopting a Nazi-like ideology and declaring war on your neighbors.
" Gaza was self-governing. Israel had no hand in running it. Hamas, not Israel, made the lives of Gazans miserable."
Source?
" Gaza will be militarily occupied and its people forcibly reeducated. "
Source?
Are you serious? You are unfamiliar with the 2005 disengagement of Israel from Gaza? I suggest you do some web searches and some basic reading! Talk about historically illiterate.
"You are unfamiliar with the 2005 disengagement of Israel from Gaza?"
I don't think much changed. Before the settlers were given the boot, Palestinians were not allowed to sun themselves at the Jew only beach. After, they could. I don't see much self governance there.
” Gaza will be militarily occupied and its people forcibly reeducated. ”
Source?
That's my prediction. It's also what the Israeli government has suggested. It is how we historically have dealt with intolerant, genocidal, war mongering regimes like Hamas and the Nazis.
This is just more of your idiocy. Last week your solution was to have the Jews force Gazans at gun point into tent cities in Sinai, or better yet, into leaky boats headed for the refugee camps of Europe. The less attention you pay to the genocidalists governing Israel, the better. Think for yourself instead.
You’re not paying attention. Be skeptical. Question authority.
It's you who is being the gullible and ignorant fool. You see everything through the colonizer/colonized lens that "authority" has spoon fed you since childhood.
I opposed apartheid, even as a child. Guilty as charged.
If you think that Israel, with its 2 million Muslim Arab citizens, is guilty of apartheid against Muslim Arabs, all that shows is that you are utterly ignorant.
"If you think that Israel, with its 2 million Muslim Arab citizens,"
Are you really this dense? Those 2 million Muslims aren't fighting Israel, you fucking moron. The ones fighting Israel are the human animals in Gaza and the West Bank, where apartheid is even worse than it was in South Africa. If Israel wants peace, they know exactly what to do, treat the people of the occupied territories something like they treat the citizens you refer to. Until then, expect the fighting to continue.
Are you really this dense? Those 2 million Muslims aren’t fighting Israel, you fucking moron. The ones fighting Israel are the human animals in Gaza and the West Bank, where apartheid is even worse than it was in South Africa.
Apartheid is a system of institutionalized racial segregation. Given that Muslim Arabs are free in Israel, whatever Israel is doing in Gaza is not "apartheid" since it is not based on racial segregation.
The people who advocate, practice, and desire such segregation are Muslims and, specifically, Palestinians.
If Israel wants peace, they know exactly what to do, treat the people of the occupied territories something like they treat the citizens you refer to.
Palestinians have rejected that. Furthermore, Gaza is not part of Israel. Your suggestion is as absurd as saying the US should give citizenship to Mexicans because they live in Mexico.
"Apartheid is a system of institutionalized racial segregation."
In Israel it's based on religion/ethnicity. Jews on top, non Jews on the bottom. They even call it a 'Jewish state.' One group, the Palestinians are assigned a second class status. Those who are fated to live out their lives as second class citizens have been resisting this that's what the conflict is about. Your idea of Jews 're-educating' Palestinians to see the truth of their inferior status and accept it, is just another of the idiotic ideas you've come across somewhere. The path to peace is clear - drop the apartheid and accept all residents of greater Israel as equal. Until that happens, resistance will continue and Jews and non Jews will continue to suffer. Surely, that's not what you want. It's not what I want, in any case.
"Furthermore, Gaza is not part of Israel. "
It was marked as part of Israel on the map Bibi showed to the UN a while back. Look it up if you don't believe me. Maybe he knows something you don't.
In Israel it’s based on religion/ethnicity. Jews on top, non Jews on the bottom.
WTF are you talking about? Muslim Arabs have equal rights in Israel.
Those who are fated to live out their lives as second class citizens have been resisting this that’s what the conflict is about.
Israeli citizens who are Muslim Arabs aren't involved in any conflict.
The path to peace is clear – drop the apartheid and accept all residents of greater Israel as equal.
Gaza and the West Bank are not part of Israel. If Israel decides to annex it, the people living there will be expelled, just like the people were expelled from formerly German territories annexed by Poland and the USSR. Deal with it.
"Israeli citizens who are Muslim Arabs aren’t involved in any conflict."
You haven't asked yourself why not, have you? I suggest it's because they don't suffer from being sub humans to the same extent as the people of Gaza or the West Bank. If Israel wants to live in peace and harmony with their neighbors, they ought to 'love their neighbor' as one noted Palestinian carpenter advised.
"Gaza and the West Bank are not part of Israel. "
According to the UN, this is correct. 'Green Line' Israel doesn't include Gaza and the West Bank. These territories are under Israeli occupation, where Israel controls who leaves and enters the territories, how much food, water, electricity, fuel and etc. According to Netanyahu and his ilk, everything on the map he brought to the UN 'from the river to the sea' is part of greater Israel. It's not recognized by the UN, or even the US.
"If Israel decides to annex it, the people living there will be expelled,"
Who is going to do this expelling if the residents decide they don't want to be expelled? I don't think Israel can rely on neighbors like Egypt to do this and Israel is bound by international treaties to deal with the refugees according to international law, which precludes possible solutions like genocide and ethnic cleansing.
"I opposed apartheid, even as a child. Guilty as charged."
You slimy pile of shit, there's a reason people hate you on sight: It saves them time.
I love how it's supposedly "apartheid" to give the West Jordanians autonomy in their traditional territory.
You liked the atrocities of Oct. 7? You'll love apartheid.
You liked the atrocities of Oct. 7? You’ll love apartheid.
The problem is that YOU liked the atrocities of 10/7, mtrueman.
The problem is that YOU support the people whose entire society is based on apartheid, mtrueman.
Trueman isn't the sharpest ball in the pit.
"The problem is that YOU support the people whose entire society is based on apartheid, mtrueman."
The problem is with Israel and her refusal to resolve the issue of the refugees goes back years before I was born. Putting the blame on me is just another of your idiotic ideas. Let's recapitulate them, as they are quite unintentionally amusing:
Jews 're-educating' Palestinians to accept and embrace their inferiority vis a vis Jews,
Gaza is a sovereign state, just like Mexico or the United States,
Exterminating every man, woman and child in Gaza would still not be genocide, because they are not a 'gens.'
The Israeli pilots who drop bombs on Gaza, can take no credit for the damage they inflict, sole credit goes to Palestinians on the ground,
Europe will be happy to take in some 7 million refugees Jews evict from Israel at gunpoint,
Wearing a checkered scarf is the same as calling for genocide,
Feel free to add to the list, but please make any new additions at least as funny and non-nonsensical as your previous contributions.
Jews ‘re-educating’ Palestinians to accept and embrace their inferiority vis a vis Jews,
Palestinians are following an ideology similar to Nazi Germany, and need to be treated like Nazi Germany after they lost the war.
Gaza is a sovereign state, just like Mexico or the United States,
No, it is not "just like Mexico or the United States" because it is run by genocidal, racist totalitarians.
Exterminating every man, woman and child in Gaza would still not be genocide, because they are not a ‘gens.’
Israel is neither "exterminating every man, woman and child in Gaza" nor is it targeting a religion or ethnicity.
The Israeli pilots who drop bombs on Gaza, can take no credit for the damage they inflict, sole credit goes to Palestinians on the ground,
That is correct: the moral responsibility rests entirely with Hamas. Same way that the moral responsibility for what happened to Dresden and Nagasaki rested with the Nazi and Japanese governments, not the US pilots.
Europe will be happy to take in some 7 million refugees Jews evict from Israel at gunpoint,
Europe will do no such thing. The people of Gaza and the West Bank need to go to Egypt and Jordan, respectively, the nations that lost those territories in a war.
Wearing a checkered scarf is the same as calling for genocide,
Pro-Palestinian protests are demonstrations in favor of a racist, genocidal, totalitarian regime and ideology.
Feel free to add to the list, but please make any new additions at least as funny and non-nonsensical as your previous contributions.
Well, I'm glad you roughly understand what I'm saying. And I'm glad that you keep demonstrating that you support Islamo-fascists and think that giving Islamo-fascists control over the entire Middle East is the right thing to do. You're a fool, of course, but you are displaying your folly honestly, and that is something.
"Palestinians are following an ideology similar to Nazi Germany,"
What exactly is it about Nazi Germany you object to? The Nazis observed a pernicious influence in their society, and took steps to eliminate it. Today's Israel is doing the same thing. The biggest difference is back then American took exception and waged war on Germany. Today the American establishment fully participates in the genocide against the Palestinians and stooges like yourself cheer them on.
Read some history. I'm sure there is much you'll find to admire about the Nazis. You might especially enjoy learning about how they dealt with the uppity vermin that infested the Warsaw Ghetto.
[mtrueman:] What exactly is it about Nazi Germany you object to? The Nazis observed a pernicious influence in their society, and took steps to eliminate it. [...] there is much you’ll find to admire about the Nazis.
I'm glad we have established now clearly, mtrueman, that you are a Nazi sympathizer, and that that's the reason you sympathize with Nazi collaborators like the Palestinians.
Anyone supporting the Jew Zelensky in Ukraine is sympathizing with the Nazis he employs and arms with your tax dollars and weapons.
You hypocrite Jew.
Look at all the Jews denying the genocide, apartheid, crimes against humanity and holocaust they’re committing against the Palestinians of Gaza.
I saw that coming.
Look at the Nazi shit spouting lies. EVERYBODY knew that was coming.
have a miserable rest of your life, fuck face, and we all hope it's very short.
While this statement is constitutionally-protected free speech it is factually incorrect to assert that women have souls.
Shiksa- You are a woman. Unless your name is a lie and you are really a putz.