Do Not Under Any Circumstances Nationalize Greyhound
Private, for-profit intercity bus services are a remarkable example of free market transportation. Socialists naturally want to shut it all down.

America has an extensive network of private, for-profit (and profitable) intercity bus services primarily serving lower-income people. It's a great example of how the free market can provide an essential service without public subsidies.
Naturally, the socialists want to shut it all down.
In response to recent news reports about Greyhound closing bus stations (in favor of curbside pick up) and shutting down service to some midsized cities entirely, Jacobin columnist and Rutgers philosophy professor Ben Burgis advocates for nationalizing the company and running its buses on dedicated interstate lanes.
"A publicly owned intercity bus service with dedicated highway lanes could do for travelers what the US Postal Service does for letters and packages," writes Burgis.
Travelers, like Postal Service packages, would "criss-cross the country cheaply and quickly," says Burgis. This new government-run bus company would extend service to everywhere, he writes, and "like the USPS," this government-run bus company would be "financially self-sufficient."
That the Postal Service is "financially self-sufficient" would be news to USPS, which reported a $6.5 billion net loss this past fiscal year. Indeed, the Postal Service is currently shuttering facilities and raising prices as part of a 10-year restructuring plan meant to get it out of the red.
As it turns out, the nationalized Postal Service is engaged in the same kind of retrenchment a nationalized bus company is supposed to avoid. This fact strengthens Burgis' point that a government-run intercity bus company would perform as well as USPS. But it doesn't necessarily recommend nationalization.
The whole point of nationalizing Greyhound would be to expand service to unprofitable routes and improve facilities while still keeping prices affordable for people whose only option is taking the bus. That's unlikely to happen if this nationalized bus service is to remain committed to being "financially self-sufficient."
That all would be technically possible by providing a nationalized intercity bus service with endless government subsidies and no expectation that the money will ever be paid back. The obvious parallel is Amtrak, the government-owned corporation that provides intercity rail service.
Amtrak is currently in the process of expanding service and improving train stations, despite ridership continuing to be below pre-pandemic levels. The rail service's expansion is only made possible by billions of dollars in additional subsidies provided by the 2021 infrastructure law.
Despite these subsidies, Amtrak is neither the fastest travel service connecting most cities (that would be for-profit airlines) nor the cheapest (that would be for-profit buses). When it comes to nationalized intercity rail service, the inefficiencies of government ownership have overwhelmed the benefits of government subsidies. We should expect the same results from intercity nationalized bus service.
It is true that Greyhound has cut service levels in recent decades. A major reason for that is that travel options have expanded, not contracted, for most Americans. Plane travel is increasingly affordable for most people. Rates of car ownership have gone up as well. Fewer people are taking the bus as a result.
All things considered, intercity bus companies have responded pretty nimbly to these market changes by cutting costs, changing business practices, and selling off valuable, underused facilities to more profitable uses. If only America's nationalized postal and rail companies were so dynamic!
Obviously, some bus-dependent passengers will be made worse off if buses don't run to their chosen destination anymore. There are lots of things policy makers could do to help those individual riders.
Instead of nationalization or subsidization, though, policy makers could cut the subsidies they give to other forms of transportation.
If Amtrak weren't getting billions of dollars in public subsidies, many former train takers would skip the higher, unsubsidized cost of train travel and take the bus instead. Perhaps that would boost demand enough to prop up currently unprofitable bus lines. Ensuring motorists pay the full costs of their interstate highway trips could produce a similar effect by getting some would-be drivers to take the bus instead.
Further deregulation of the airline industry and making it easier for private concerns to raise capital for expanding airport facilities could bring the costs of air travel down to a level that many current Greyhound bus riders could afford.
The intercity bus industry gets few favors from the government. While airlines got tens of billions at the start of the pandemic, aid to bus companies was less and came later.* The fact that they managed to limp along with less aid is a testament to how dynamic free market services can be, even in the face of disaster. Let's not squeeze out that dynamism by turning private bus companies into another flabby appendage of the government transportation sector.
CORRECTION: The original version of this article misstated the amount of pandemic aid the bus industry received.
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"A publicly owned intercity bus service with dedicated highway lanes could do for travelers what the US Postal Service does for letters and packages," writes Burgis.
Inefficient, slow, unreliable, and in the red? That's precisely why we don't want it.
People usually get what is coming to them…unless it was something sent through the postal service.
Yup. How many people want to get on a bus and never arrive anywhere?
Or worse (in theit case), arrive mangled?
https://abc7chicago.com/greyhound-bus-crash-illinois-i70-traffic-accident/13492862/
Think of the drivers. They will get to make $500k a year. The 2 of them they will be able to hire after all of tbe ESG requirements.
Don't worry. The one route our betters deem important will still run once a week at least.
Here's a link to the Socialist Workers State of Washington if you want to start from a town north of Seattle and end up at the Seatac Airport south of Seattle. Three hours, three transfers, walking at least 18 minutes with your luggage ... etc etc etc ...
https://www.soundtransit.org/tripplanner/to/location:landmark_5646/from/location:landmark_161/now/1703693700000/travel-by/bus,train/route-option/fastest%20trip/max-walk/1609
No, but thanks for asking!
Traveling through Italy and Switzerland via train I found myself telling my wife that we would have to walk to the hotel. How far? Don't know but it should be close. Not the answer she wanted to hear. At the train station, I walk over to the black BMW taxis (this is Switzerland) and ask a guy how much to the hotel. He looks at me and points - its right there but 20 euros. I paid. We probably walked farther walking to the taxi stand than the hotel but we did get a nice ride in a 7000 series BMW.
A few weeks ago I ordered from Amazon. When I got the tracking information it stated that it was going through the USPS. My order started in Pittsburgh, went to the State of Indiana, came back to Warrendale, PA and then was delivered to me. Total run for the package was over 600 miles. Distance from the USPS facility that got the package from Amazon to my front door 22 miles. Yeah. Efficient.
That Rutgers national socialist professor must not use the US Postal Service, which sucks balls. Folks should want to stamp out any parallel inefficient monstrosities.
Au contraire! The USPS is a smashing success. Where else can you "work" as part of a quasi-federal union where Democrats have your back no matter how dysfunctional you and your comrades perform?
There is a lot of government union jobs criticism to parcel out.
There’s a lot to unpack in that sentence.
When it absolutely positively HAS to get there ... don't use the USPS!
Especially if you don't want it damaged or mangled by the time it arrives.
Stamp out? Puns like that make me POd.
Just don’t go postal.
You ever notice no one ever speaks of mass shooters "going FedEx" or "going UPS"?
🙂
😉
It's called stealing.
I propose we nationalize him. He'd make excellent fertilizer.
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The private automobile is the best door to door, all weather, long distance system, especially in a country like the U.S., where places are thousands of miles apart, and the starting and ending points are often far from airports and bus or train stations. Besides, you can stop when you want and take alternate routes at your pleasure.
So you are one for those radicals who always reflexively go for individual choice instead of government control?
The name for your kind is insurrectionist.
lol... That is funny because that really is the underlining truth of today's leftard Nazi-head. They literally think they live in a Nazi-Empire instead of a Constitutional Union of States.
At least our kind can still have a good insurrection. Half the Democrat party is trans, and they can't have insurrections anymore.
And you have a car when you get there.
Instead of having to rent one for more than the airfare cost.
Absolutely. It takes me an hour plus to get to the airport, I have to allow a half hour to find parking, I have get there early because of all the metal I have in me. So, I have to leave like three hours before my flight and only a little less time to get home if I have to wait for my luggage. Therefore, if it takes me 10 hours to drive it takes equal or less time to drive than fly. And Amtrak doesn't stop in Nashville or anywhere close.
Although, on my bucket list is to take a round trip on The Train They Call The City of New Orleans.
My Sister lives in Eastern Maryland. I live in Pennsylvania. I have a friend who's kids went to the University of Maryland. I'd fly with him from a local airport, to College Park and rent a car. Later after his kids finished college, I'd drive down. It took about sis and half hours. A friend suggested that I fly, so I looked into it. An hour from my house to the airport, arriving two hours early to get through TSA. An hour and a half to two hours flight time. About another hour to get luggage and a rental car. Leaving me with a three hour drive (if I'm lucky, The Beltway sucks) to get to her house.
I'm sure Tapioca Joe's effect on fuel and truck part prices hasn't had any impact on Greyhound choosing to reduce service.
Wait what? [Na]tionalized by So[zi]alist[s]??? Does the public need who these kinds of people are SPELLED out for them?
Remember that day the US Constitution (the definition of the USA) was ratified and the Greyhound Clause was added?
Oh yeah; That's right ... The left has created a sub-government within in the USA and constantly use it to conquer and destroy the USA..
Who's the insurrectionists again?
I mean, if ever there was an interstate commerce service, it's taking the bus from one state to another.
The Interstate commerce ?service? clause? That's a new one.
"The whole point of nationalizing Greyhound would be to..."
The whole point is to steal a lane on every interstate highway for intermittent bus use and thereby make car and truck travel a nightmare.
Yeah, that one amazed me. How many buses does that clown think his dream will be using?
A whole lot more once the plebes are not allowed to own private automobiles.
If you want this president to even consider buying it, rename it Amtrak.
"buying"
I suggest Bassethound
More like SoonerHound. Whicb means it would "sooner" sit on it's ass as not.
🙂
😉
"A publicly owned intercity bus service with dedicated highway lanes could do for travelers what the US Postal Service does for letters and packages,"
Exactly!
I wonder if he wrote that with a straight face. These "intellectuals" are destroying modern civilization. Ideas matter.
He wants to take highway lanes away from cars. Great.
Sure, nationalize bus companies. But will that mean greater or fewer bus trips from the border to New York and Chicago?
Evidently they’ll just put them on planes too.
Greyhound sucks, but nowhere near as much as it would if it was owned & operated by the government.
I can see why they are ditching the stations to go with the curbside pickup - they may be learning a thing or two from MegaBus. (Which is one reason why competition is a good thing)
I miss Bolt Bus (run by Greyhound).
...
However, ISTR that heavy vehicles like buses under-pay for their share of road maintenance via fuel taxes.
Really, road maintenance taxes should be based on how much damage the vehicle does to the road. So heavier vehicles pay higher taxes per mile (and per second, since stationery vehicles also damage the road).
Fuel taxes should be for getting rid of the pollution vehicles produce.
Fatass Donnie would replace Greyhound with government run Trumphound as an alternative of course.
Trump promises to replace Obamacare with his own healthcare 'alternative'
Trump said Obamacare is 'too expensive' and 'not good healthcare'
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-promises-replace-obamacare-with-his-own-healthcare-alternative
However, GOP lawmakers have signaled re-upping the fight against Obamacare is not a priority. At the time of Trump's post last month, Sen. Majority Whip John Thune, R-S.D., reportedly said he was an advocate for lowering healthcare costs "and making our healthcare system more efficient."
.
"But I’m not sure," he said of Trump's post. "I’d want to know what the proposal is."
Thune knows Donnie.
That is more of a stretch than what you do when you watch Macaulay Culkin in Home Alone. Turn yourself in to authorities.
This is your weakest troll attempt yet. You're absolutely useless when you haven't been emailed your talking-points.
No troll. Fatass Donnie actually tried the Trump Shuttle connecting the Northeast before it failed.
It wasn't Donnie's fault of course. Donnie knows transportation better than anyone. Just ask him. There weren't big enough subsidies. He would bankroll Trumphound via the taxpayer via his DC Swamp. Just like PPP. Donnie don't fail - he just needs bigger subsidies. It's your fault you Trump Cultist. Now send him another donation.
So you're trying to say that Trump's airline purchase as a private venture capitalist means he's going to nationalize bus lines.
That's totally trolling, retard.
Remember that time you got banned from here?
You're seriously whining about someone planning to replace Obamacare? Get some new material.
Trumpcare would be worse. 100% guaranteed.
And your evidence for this?
His inner voice. Mind you that this is the same inner voice telling him that minor pursuits are noble.
It's amusing to contrast municipal support for sport stadiums (prestigious!) with that for bus stations (opposite of prestigious!).
Trains. Trains are prestigious. Ask Merced and Bakersfield, if the train ever gets completed.
In response to recent news reports about Greyhound closing bus stations (in favor of curbside pick up) and shutting down service to some midsized cities entirely, Jacobin columnist and Rutgers philosophy professor Ben Burgis advocates for nationalizing the company and running its buses on dedicated interstate lanes.
Not a surprise I guess but if classical liberals got involved in urban governance, what Greyhound is doing is completely in synch with what muni public transit should be doing. Greyhound is going asset-light (where they have no cost advantages) so they can focus on operations (where they know what they're doing). Munis have an asset cost advantage - they own the land free and clear - and so should focus entirely on stations, stops, depots, etc. But they suck at operations and always will - routes, schedules, fare collection, vehicles, driving, etc.
Integrate that sort of muni transit with intercity and the stupid people who advocate nationalizing or socializing stuff would be blindingly irrelevant.
Transit stations can be privately owned, though they do have some "commons" problems that way that make municipal o & o attractive. Some of the "commons" problems can be mitigated by common carrier rules.
The worst compromise, however, is achieved by the Port Authority of NY & NJ, a self-perpetuating, practically unaccountable body prone to corruption.
The roads - and the transit access points to them (meaning stations, depots, stops, ramps, intersections, etc) - should be publicly owned. That is what keeps the land cost of that transit lower than ANY private owner of the land can ever accomplish.
The way to deal with a 'commons' problem (which should NOT be seen as a 'commons' problem because the land is not yours nor mine but ours) is for the muni to run their transit system like an airport. Slots/times at stations/depots/stops are leased to private operators and those times/routes are then publicized. That's all the muni does (and it can subcontract much of that). The airport doesn't try to operate airlines - or collect passenger fares. Assuming the airport remains muni-owned, it doesn't have to do the rentier/monopoly game. The rentier game is what every private owner will play and is at the heart of all 'neoliberal'/privatization corruption. Rather the muni just maximizes the number of stations/depots/stops distributed around a city that generate point-to-point traffic demand - and lets private carriers run the transit.
The 'commons' approach is really a sleazy way to think about public land ownership. Dating back to, imo, the corruption that drove 'enclosure'. That public land IS owned as a public asset and should be managed as a fiduciary. It is not unowned. Nor should it be privatized.
Yes Greyhound can own bus stations. But it is very clear that they don't want to. They'd rather sell the land - and try to freeride on the public land where they simply stop/offload.
Wait, he wants to take away another highway lane? Doesn't he care about carbon emissions from all those cars stuck in traffic?
In his scenario, most of the cars disappear and the people from them ride the bus.
Which is why the SF progressives threw a fit when Google started using city bus stops to pick up Google employees. Even though those bus stops sit unused 90% of the time.
Maybe SF should spend its effort managing its public land (bus stops) and far less effort (or none at all) playing bus driver for muni employees. Because in this case Google is absolutely freeriding - blocking a traffic lane, throwing a different entities bus schedule off, not paying for load/unload value. But assuming the city doesn't play rentier/monopoly, Google is probably totally ok paying $1 or so for that stop. Open that up - with the city publicizing the schedule/routes that have been leased for that bus stop - and it could open up a shit-ton of transit options. From share-a-ride/commuter vans to mall/airport shuttles to neighborhood taxi etc. Enough to eliminate the colossal wasted money of muni run buses and their dumb routes. The result is that those stops would move from 90% empty to much more frequent service to lots of points. Which would also then raise the value (but not the price) of those load/unload slots.
If you want an example of just how bad government run bus service can be check out Bustang in Colorado. Granted they contract with Greyhound, etc. Only a government could come up with such a useless schedule.
Providing a whopping 1,800 rides a day it manages to only loose about $2m a year.
There is absolutely no evidence that socialists, social democrats, democrats or republicans have ever or will ever learn from experience. There is also no evidence that facts, logic or economics will ever intrude upon the fantasies and myths they have created to try to further their agenda, or that the failure of every such effort in the past to achieve any of their stated goals means anything to them. I can't remember what the ability to hold two mutually exclusive and self-contradictory thoughts simultaneously is called, but the quotations in this article are near perfect examples of this super-power!
I use the term oxymoron - and this is precisely why Trump has a following as well as any other politician who entertains LIMITED government. But you're right; the pickings are getting slimmer and farther from that everyday.
I believe the term you are looking for is cognitive dissonance.
Thanks!
Somewhere there is a person with absolutely no friends who have cars who also needs to go from one place to another for some reason. So let's send armed federal agents to every taxpayer in America to take billions so that person can go through life without having to think about the need for transportation.
Can't he just take Uber? If you have money you don't need friends.
Jacobin columnist and Rutgers philosophy professor Ben Burgis
I am not surprised Burgis is both economically illiterate and morally bankrupt. There is nothing stopping this jack-off from getting in his car and giving rides to those "whose only option is taking the bus" he wants the rest of us to pay for.
no shit. she had me at Jacobin columnist. What an absolute douche.
In defense of socialists, they want to shut EVERYTHING down. Greyhound is not an exception here.
there are also myriad competitive regional bus services, sometimes running only one route between to major mets.
SF-LA has several.
>The whole point of nationalizing Greyhound would be to expand service to unprofitable routes and improve facilities while still keeping prices affordable for people whose only option is taking the bus. That's unlikely to happen if this nationalized bus service is to remain committed to being "financially self-sufficient."
Have these people never heard of 'AmTrak'?
Just think if they made all those US Post Office locations into banks....
Or bus stations!
Also, Greyhound 'closing stations' doesn't mean they're stopping service to those locations.
Nowadays most people can purchase a ticket online and Greyhound *has always* done curbside pickup and drop-off. Usually there's one station in a city but multiple pick-up/drop-off locations in the city. Even along the route they'll do stuff like designate a fast food restaurant parking lot - where they'll do a rest stop - as a place to pick-up and drop off passengers too.
Like, the town I live in (Yuma) has never had a bus station but its long been a rest point between San Diego and Phoenix.
Tell that to the entrenched vested interests who scream bloody murder when the USPS wants to close a Podunk retail post office to save money. I go to the post office maybe once a year, but there's my mail six days a week in my box plus parcel delivery. Some act like a town or village would implode on itself if it didn't have Sam Drucker and his post office.
Inter-city bus transportation between DC and NYC is VERY competitive with Amtrak & airlines. For $25-30, one can take the bus right to Manhattan, avoiding TSA lines and hassles, getting decent wi-fi and a comfortable reclining seat.
These private bus lines would likely be driven out of business by government subsidies for much poorer quality public bus service
Socialists are why we can't have nice things.
And high-density urban population centers are why we have socialists.
Can I pay $50 and not end up in Manhattan?
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nice
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The reliability of Amtrak and the cost overruns of the California bullet train....