War on Pause

Plus: Disease in China, botched Reagan quotes, modern racial segregation, and more...

War pause gets extended: The temporary ceasefire between Israel and Hamas has been extended from four days to six. Hamas has so far released 50 Israeli hostages taken in the October 7 pogrom; Israel has released 150 Palestinian prisoners who been tried in court and held in Israeli jails.

For each additional day that the ceasefire is extended, Hamas will release 10 more hostages and Israel will release 30 more prisoners.

The pause in fighting is allowing aid convoys to reach Palestinians who have gone without food, clean water, and medical care for many weeks.

But it may not last much longer: "Some analysts say domestic pressures will probably prompt Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to revive the invasion sooner rather than later," reports The New York Times. "A delayed resumption of the attack would put Mr. Netanyahu on a collision course with far-right government ministers who grudgingly supported the cease-fire because they were assured that the invasion would continue after only a short truce."

Zero-COVIDism has consequences: A massive wave of respiratory viruses is hitting China hard—children in particular. China's Zero-COVID policy meant the state put certain regions with high circulation of the disease into lockdown cyclically, using centralized health apps to track people's movements and discern whether they'd been in close proximity to the sick. Travel into and outside of the country was heavily restricted. People in lockdown areas would be forced to stay shut inside their homes for months on end, leading to scenes of incredible desperation and a shocking mass protest movement in November 2022 that led to the policy being fully retired that December. The economic hit was extraordinary.

Now, RSV, COVID, pneumonia, and the flu are all circulating, mimicking the same pattern we saw in schools in the U.S. that locked down super hard: When you take children out of the public, you delay waves of contagious diseases circulating, but you don't altogether prevent it.

"By May and June 2021, pediatricians noticed an unprecedented, counterseasonal surge in communicable illnesses, particularly RSV," wrote Pamela Hobart for Reason earlier this year. "Hand, foot, and mouth disease came right along with it, tearing through schools and day care centers all summer with unmistakable boils. Strep throat got in on the action too. Instead of dodging diseases, this catch-up wave suggested, children had largely just deferred them."

Since no new pathogens have been detected in China, there is minimal risk to people outside of the country. Still, this story is a good reminder that Zero-COVID policy was not only a disaster for civil liberties but also, in the long run, a disaster for many people's health.

---

Scenes from New York: Had a great time in Manhattan yesterday recording something new and fun. Will keep you all guessing. All I can say is: Stay tuned.

(Jim Epstein)

---

QUICK HITS

• IT IS WEBATHON TIME! If you love what we do here at Reason—and if you love this new, reinvented Roundup and want to tell my higher-ups all about it—please consider giving to support our journalism. (FWIW, donations of any size will get you special access to the Ask Us Anything edition of The Reason Roundtable. Include proof of your donation when you submit a question to [e-mail]. Deadline is Wednesday morning!)
• Yesterday, a video made the rounds of a speech Education Secretary Miguel Cardona gave earlier this month, which included the most hilarious moment of stupidity. A direct quote from Cardona: "I think it was President Reagan who said, 'We're from the government. We're here to help!'" This is, of course, a bastardization of Reagan's actual admonishment.
• This school district in Evanston, Illinois, just straight-up brought back racial segregation, under the guise of social justice. Disturbing.
• Jessica Winter examines the "ethics of procreation in this burning, drowning world," for The New Yorker in what is a representative installment of the depressed-environmentalist genre.
• LOL:

Futurism caught Sports Illustrated publishing AI stories — with fake author profile pages and all. We went to them with it, and they wiped…all of it. https://t.co/bjPvqWeOBI pic.twitter.com/dh100fxUOJ

— foster kamer. (@weareyourfek) November 27, 2023

• What do these words mean? 

cant decide whats better people clapping as if this tortured stat makes any sense or biden acting proud as if he understood the words he just read https://t.co/QlgXzMnxgT

— nic ???? carter (@nic__carter) November 28, 2023

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

IT IS WEBATHON TIME!

Shameless.

[Minadin]

I gave at the office.

[Chumby]

I gave at the DNC cocktail party they attended.

[TwilaMiller]

I'm making $90 an hour working from home. I never imagined that it was honest to goodness yet my closest companion is earning 16,000 US dollars a month by working on the connection, that was truly astounding for me, she prescribed for me to attempt it simply. Everybody must try this job now by just using this website... http://www.Payathome9.com

[R Mac]

ITT, Lying Jeffy lies about Mothers Lament, admits he lied, then tries to cover for himself by saying…maybe he was lying when he admitted he was lying. Couldn’t make this up if you tried.

[Mother's Lament]

Sevo needs to make up another copypasta about how Lying Jeffy lies.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

"Lying Jeffy lies. Lying Jeffy lies when he knows he is lying. Lying Jeffy lies when we know he is lying. Lying Jeffy lies when we know he knows he is lying. Lying Jeffy lies and is probably a pederast too, while wallowing in the bottom of a 55-gallon drum of Ben & Jerry's."

Will that work?

[Mother's Lament]

*Chef's kiss*

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/TheMessenger/status/1729514012587491371?t=M5ZQHVoU9mTVwc1Zx7NeRA&s=19
BREAKING: Koch network endorses Nikki Haley, says it’s time to move on from Trump

[Mother's Lament]

I still give just to upset White Mike's narratives.

[JesseAz]

I give to individuals, not institutions.

[Minadin]

It's a bonus reason, I guess.

I donate because I enjoy the comment section, and they've been pretty adamant about keeping it open, so I support that.

And, for as much grief as they get down here sometimes, they are much more likely to have an honest approach on a news event than most media outlets. I know, that sounds like damning with faint praise.

[Mother's Lament]

Well, this year I also enjoy reading Liz, so I have a bonus reason.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

That is a good point. I should reward them for Liz.

[R Mac]

I’m not sure the commentariat telling the higher ups how much we like the Roundup now would be as beneficial to Liz as she thinks.

[A Thinking Mind]

Oh, yeah, with Liz doing Round-ups, I might actually donate this year.

[Nardz]

Yall have such low standards

[R Mac]

You don’t think the Roundup is significantly better under Liz?

[A Thinking Mind]

It's good to reward steps taken in the right direction.

[Nardz]

It's better.
But it isn't exactly good.
It's simply not undisguised leftist activism.
But it's still 100% establishment globalist.

[Mother's Lament]

The purity you seek will be hard to find, Nardz.

[Don't look at me!]

I’m sure it’s someplace on Twitter!

[Nardz]

I don't need purity, I'm just not going to trust or praise my enemies

[Mother's Lament]

I'm not your enemy and I don't think Liz is either.

[mad.casual]

Your ideas are passively entertaining to me, and I wish to continue reading your reposted Twitter feed comments for free.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Who--er--what wouldn't be better under Liz?
🙂
😉

[TheReEncogitationer]

Lemmie guess: You'd rather have some Trad-Con, Alt-Right, modern-day Leni Riefenstahl type for the Roundup, the term for which to take on an alternate meaning?

[Illocust]

You know, that's a good point. I should throw some cash in as a reward for an improvement.

[TheReEncogitationer]

With Liz wearing Catwoman garb, how can I refuse?
🙂
😉

[Rev Arthur L kuckland]

The better case would be "donate so we can replace this horrible wallpaper

[TheReEncogitationer]

I'm sorry. I missed that looking at all that shiny spandex/PVC/leather/leather.
🙂
😉

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Is there a fund just for that?

[Spiritus Mundi]

I see your shame in the "supported by banner."

[TheReEncogitationer]

Not yet. Like Cap on The Little Rascals episode "Mush and Milk", I’m waiting for my store’s back disability check to come in.

[Overt]

I skipped donating last year for reasons (ha!) I've given many times before. This editing team has been too interested in click bait and outrage- piling into whatever was Trending on X. It has been more interested in cherrypicking The Science! (tm) than making the moral case for Liberty.

Wolf has been a refreshing change, and I specifically called out her addition to the Lynx. Whether the rag completely shifts off it's tired Buzzfeed-style remains to be seen. But hopefully enough carrots will lead them to that end.

[Mother's Lament]

Good points.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

Wolf has been a refreshing change, and I specifically called out her addition to the Lynx.

But is she a cougar?

[JesseAz]

The same day they ask the readers for money...

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/koch-backed-americans-prosperity-nikki-haley-endorses-nikki-haley

I just can't. Lol.

[R Mac]

Although their coverage of Trump on immigration was unhinged and dishonest, at least I understand the libertarian argument for open borders and getting rid of tariffs. What I never understood was their lack of support for his attempts to keep us out of foreign entanglements. Now I get it.

[JesseAz]

Open borders into a welfare state is forever a naive position, not a libertarian one.

[R Mac]

Don’t agree with it, but I understand where the belief comes from. It’s a misguided, and yes, naive position that doesn’t work in the real world, but it at least has a basis in libertarianism. Freedom of movement.

There’s no libertarian basis in not supporting non-interventionism whatsoever.

[JesseAz]

Freedom of movement sure. But in a welfare state it creates an increase in violations of the NAP due to welfare costs and taxation. If one is going on purity, they can't trade one freedom subsidized by another. Which is what open border without care of costs libertarians do all the time. It is based on naivety. A libertarian should be able to look and weigh all effects of a policy they advocate for.

[R Mac]

You’re missing my point. I agree with your conclusion. But in a world without the welfare state, etc, the libertarian position of freedom of movement could support open borders.

There is no world, no hypothetical, no different circumstances, that libertarians shouldn’t support the guy that doesn’t want to start wars, or be a part of NATO.

[ElvisIsReal]

Exactly.

https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/if-borders-are-imaginary-why-should

If Borders Are Imaginary, Why Should We Control Ours?

A libertarian argument against libertarian policies

[Public Entelectual]

Unleash the Krakantula !

[Fist of Etiquette]

The temporary ceasefire between Israel and Hamas has been extended from four days to six.

Somebody acquaint the region with the issues of the sunk-cost fallacy.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Is that like a Pearl Harbor thing?

[mad.casual]

The ceasefire was extended just in time to keep all 483 hospitals in Gaza from running out of diesel.

[Don't look at me!]

The picture of the recording looks like a scene from A Clockwork Orange

[A Cynical Asshole]

The guy they're interviewing wants to have a bit of the ol' in-out, in-out.

[R Mac]

That’s Dave Smith. Several of us listen to his podcast.

[JesseAz]

Jeff will rage when posted.

[R Mac]

Wait until he hears someone we like doesn’t like Trump…

Will it completely destroy his world view, or will he ignore it and keep on lying?

Hahaha I’m just kidding, we all know.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

There's another here who will flip that we aren't all Trump cultists.

[mad.casual]

we all know

I was dubious of a coherent world view to be destroyed from the get go.

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1729487607795486745?t=7L2pHe72uDJu2shrofEzFQ&s=19

NEW – United Nations set to call on Americans to reduce meat consumption because of “climate change.”

Edit- oops, misplaced

[Anomalous]

Diplomats - the other other white meat.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

I prefer free range diplomat.

[Idaho-Bob]

Easily identified by blue helmets.

[R Mac]

Funny movie about the UN:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0283509/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk

[TheReEncogitationer]

So is General Curly Joe Besser of the Blue Helmets going to harm us and give us such a pinch if we enjoy a ribeye?
https://youtu.be/-s6mAxlAtUk?si=53ce-05y4Qhu6-7V

https://youtu.be/WvesobqOleM?si=_iP_GVNJ4XMT0IDm
🙂
😉

[damikesc]

Can we fight climate change by evicting gaseous windbags to another country?

[R Mac]

Planet.

[Minadin]

The Sun?

[R Mac]

I’m good with that.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Reminder:

China’s CO2 emissions outrank the combined output of the entire EU27, the USA, India, and Russia. Having more than doubled since 2005, while the rest of the world has embarked on massive efforts to reduce emissions.

While the alarmists flagellate themselves and try to excoriate the rest of us into compliance with some fantasy in which we own nothing yet are somehow happy enough to eat bugs, China keeps on truckin' and their output renders all the rest of the world's cuts moot.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

I think we should simply sequester their carbon underground. For Gaia's sake.

[Medulla Oblongata]

https://thefederalist.com/2023/11/27/un-set-to-amplify-war-on-meat-at-upcoming-cop28-climate-conference/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=ae&utm_campaign=memail&seyid=103792?utm_campaign=ACTENGAGE

World leaders from developed nations will be pressured to “curb their excessive appetite for meat” during the United Nations’ upcoming COP28 annual climate conference, Bloomberg News reported Saturday. “Nations that over-consume meat will be advised to limit their intake while developing countries — where under-consumption of meat adds to a prevalent nutrition challenge — will need to improve their livestock farming,” wrote Bloomberg Journalist Agnieszka de Sousa.

The UN’s anti-meat agenda is part of the UN’s Food and Agriculture Organization’s (FAO) COP28 “roadmap” for limiting the rise in global temperatures by 1.5C, per the Paris climate agreement.

The FAO insists the meat industry is responsible for destroying the planet via methane and nitrogen emissions. However, contrary to the UN’s suggestion, the science is not “settled” on livestock emissions. For example, a group of UC Riverside researchers discovered this year that methane traps heat in Earth’s atmosphere and creates cooling clouds that offset 30 percent of the Earth’s surface warming. In other words, livestock farming is likely cooling the planet, therefore counteracting global warming.

[Fist of Etiquette]

A massive wave of respiratory viruses is hitting China hard—children in particular.

Time for blue America to shut down its schools and try to eliminate everyone else's inconvenient control group.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

How many mask layers this time?

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

Thirteen!

At least two of which should be nitrile.

[Fist of Etiquette]

If you love what we do here at Reason—and if you love this new, reinvented Roundup and want to tell my higher-ups all about it...

WHY NO "SCENES FROM FLYOVER HICKSVILLE DUMBFUCKISTAN AMERICA"???

[mad.casual]

Too local.

[Illocust]

Sports Illustrated's only fault is being an early adopter. Much like self checkout lines were decried for years before becoming just part of the shopping experience, AI written articles are going to become a norm. Most articles are just retreads of things written and researched by other people, and as AI gets better, you won't need an actual person to write that.

[Knutsack]

I would say their fault is lying about who is writing the articles. They could have said that it was written by AI, right?

Self checkout lines are still being decried, and some retailers are scaling back or making big changes to how they're used.

Imagine stores trying to pass off robot cashiers as human cashiers in a checkout lane. I think that would be the more appropriate comparison.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Self checkout lines are still being decried, and some retailers are scaling back or making big changes to how they’re used.

I've actually seen them cut back at a couple of Wal-Marts in my area; one of them replaced an entire self-checkout area with 5 or 6 human-attended checkout lanes (there's usually one on both sides of the lanes).

I know there's been some discussion in the retail world that cutting back on self-checkout will restore some person-to-person interaction and maybe mitigate some negative clerk/customer encounters. But I think in Wal-Mart's case, they did the math and realized there's fewer impulse buys in the self-checkout area on a per capita basis than in the regular lanes.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

That, and shrinkage. It's harder to monitor the self checkout area for people just taking items instead of scanning and paying for them.

[Nardz]

I'd guess this is the big one.

[Minadin]

One grocery store in my area recently installed an AI-powered self-checkout monitoring system. It didn't look cheap.

The self checkout manager (lead cashier / cashier manager) told me that it was approximately 95% false alarms so far, 4% honest mistakes by the customer, and 1% attempted theft. (when I got 'nabbed' for what the machine thought was some sort of crazy sleight-of-hand move)

[Longtobefree]

Lots of shenanigan's available in self-checkout. One I heard of is to put something on the scale in a way the barcode will not be seen, and wright it as bananas. That keeps the item count correct, but makes meat affordable.
I am always tempted to send the head office an invoice for business consulting to cover my time doing what is their job.
($250.00/hr. with a 4 hour minimum)

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Good point. Self-checkout is something that only works properly in high-trust environments. Good luck getting that in most US societies these days outside of maybe exurban communities.

[ElvisIsReal]

Sadly, the thieves know that the store's policy is to let people walk with the items, so eliminating self-checkout will just cause people to be a tiny bit more brazen.

[mad.casual]

I would say their fault is lying about who is writing the articles. They could have said that it was written by AI, right?

Or not said who wrote them at all. Nobody really cares about who authored the box scores or stats.

The fact that they made fake profile pages is the "they know they were lying, we know they were lying..." tell.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

"SI Staff"

[A Cynical Asshole]

Most articles are just retreads of things written and researched by other people, and as AI gets better, you won’t need an actual person to write that.

Are you suggesting Liz Wolfe isn't real?

[R Mac]

Skeptical:

https://twitter.com/LizWolfeReason/status/1729514450393145565

[Mother's Lament]

That's the smug smirk of someone who knows they look good.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Never actually saw her picture before. Pretty lady. But I'd enjoy her roundup even if she wasn't.

[mad.casual]

The interview between her and Aella was probably the most accidentally pro-libertarian feminist thing to happen on Reason (sideways glance at ENB’s career).

The reporting/editing could’ve been better, but despite all the overt potential trappings, it managed not to march straight down the “OMG! You take your clothes off for money! That’s so stunning and brave after your ultra-Conservative parents (who were actually fairly normal at any point in any society in the last ~6000 yrs.) metaphorically beat you for being born with a vagina.” feminist “libertarian” narrative(s).

[R Mac]

What did they sat about making sammiches?

[R Mac]

Say

[mad.casual]

I know it's hard to conceptualize feminism without scolding and socially shaming men for being comfortable with their sexuality and making trivial, self-aware jokes, but... (IIRC) nothing. No sandwich jokes were harmed in the making of the specific feminist narrative.

[R Mac]

That’s…disappointing.

[Medulla Oblongata]

I can second this comment.

[A Thinking Mind]

AI will do a better job of varying up the delivery of the canned talking points so not every publication will have identical stories.

[Overt]

Why do you think that is? The people training the AI will determine what the AI does- and if that means pushing a narrative, then that means pushing a narrative.

[R Mac]

I still hate self checkout lanes, but half the people that work at my grocery store are retarded so sometimes I’ll use it anyway even if there’s a short line in their lane.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Self-checkout is great for only a few simple items. I hate looking up produce code numbers (I can't read those tiny numbers on the stickers) and if you buy, say, 12 cans of tuna, you can't just wave one can across the scanner 12 times, because it wants to weigh each single one. The local store sometimes shrink wraps 12 together, but without a separate bar code, and I've always wondered how you're supposed to self-scan that.

[VinniUSMC]

I use the Meijer app to scan items on my phone as I shop. The only annoying thing is when going to checkout "randomly" (nearly always lately) having to wait for a clerk to come over to scan 3 items to verify my scanning.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Depends. Sometimes the shrink-wrapped package is being sold as a unit (like at Sam's or Costco) and it will have a separate bar code. Sometimes, it's just on the shelf, ready to be zipped open by a clerk (like at Kroger or Meijer).

[mad.casual]

“My literal and metaphoric myopia prevents me from taking full advantage of technology. I blame the technology.” – Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf

Our scanners don’t actually weigh anything that isn’t priced by weight. The store sold me a can of tuna and it's not like they weighed them all when they came in. Even the scanners that only ensure the weight goes up as more things are scanned doesn’t care if you scan the same can of tuna 12X while chucking the other 11 directly in the bagging area.

My 10 yr. old alone is more efficient than the average clerk/bag boy duo. The idea that I just stand there waiting for others to achieve my goal of departing the store for me, either way, strikes me as very odd.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Once again you read what you wanted, not what I said. I do not blame the technology. It is impossible to blame inanimate technology. I blame the management that makes it slower than waiting in line.

[mad.casual]

I blame the management that makes it slower than waiting in line.

LOL.

"My literal and metaphoric myopia prevents me from taking full advantage of technology, but I don't blame the technology, that wouldn't make sense. I blame the management." - Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf Karen

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/Babygravy9/status/1729433445112090797?t=3Hg6VpmRd4hhouD585OIaA&s=19

This is depressing but also extremely revealing. Despite the internet and the massive availability of direct evidence about an event like the cause of the Dublin riots, the government and media are still able to shape and distort narratives to suit their purposes.

[Link]

[Rockstevo]

My take is the opposite, she heard someone had been stabbed and there was a riot afterward and assumed, as most intelligent people would it was either Libs or minorities rioting because those on the right do not usually do that. That is my theory as to why they are coming down so hard on the Jan 6 folks…they know if those on the right ever do rise up it is all over for them.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

"Sports Illustrated’s only fault is being an early adopter."

Does that include pushing transgender fatties into the swim suit edition?

[ElvisIsReal]

The problem, of course, lies when actual humans are required because the subject matter is complex.

"Bobby hit a double in the top of the 7th" is easy.

"Bobby is a woman even though he has a penis" isn't so cut and dried.

AI will NEVER tell you not to get 'vaccinated' against covid19....but even if it somehow did, it wouldn't even know it.

Garbage in, Garbage out.

[Longtobefree]

Note to the New York Times:
Israel is not invading anywhere; they are suppressing terrorism.

(but the NYT knows that)

[Don't look at me!]

Using the word “invading” implies borders matter, does it not?
How odd.

[Spiritus Mundi]

They are invading some place they already 'occupy'? That is the problem with lies, it is hard to keep them apart.

[A Thinking Mind]

Yeah, but: US indisputably invaded Iraq, despite it not being an annexation of territory. I think it's semantically accurate to say Israel forces launched an invasion into Gaza.

[Minadin]

Sure, but they could have called it a lot of things 'accurately' that provide a different spin or additional context.
Counter-offensive, for instance.

[Medulla Oblongata]

If they were already "occupying" Gaza, wouldn't that be just an "expansion of operations" there?

[windycityattorney]

Least they didn't call it a 'special operation' a la Putin.

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/TheCradleMedia/status/1729260962698432967?t=9nnZB5x7g2NWlNmtWRMZ3g&s=19

Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth reported on 27 November that the Israeli army dismissed two officers – one of them a commander – for withdrawing from the battlefield after being ambushed by dozens of Palestinian resistance fighters. The report noted that half of the soldiers in that particular unit have not returned, following the brigade’s decision to dismiss the officers, causing a “severe crisis between the soldiers of the battalion and the commander to which it belonged.”

The soldiers complained that they did not receive support or air cover by the army when they were ambushed by fighters of the Qassam Brigades, which caused the battalion to withdraw. Officers in the Israeli army remarked that the soldiers “were not prepared when entrusted with this mission.” Other officers said the soldiers were sent without being given the chance to rest properly following extensive military activity in the Gaza Strip.

The newspaper explained that this incident “caused a difficult atmosphere” and “crisis of confidence” among the battalion, prompting army officials to remove it from Gaza and send it to site near Ashkelon. The battalion was also “exposed to other serious events last month” including the injury and deaths of other officers in the ground battles.

[Link]

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Get woke! Just by existing any group higher on the oppressor scale has invaded those lower down.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Bill in Florida would provide free swimming lesson for kids.

https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/proposed-bill-would-provide-free-swimming-lessons-for-florida-kids/

Smart idea, or welfare?

[Idaho-Bob]

Both

[Moderation4ever]

Poor kids get swimming lessons and middleclass kids get summer jobs.

[R Mac]

Poor kids work just as hard as white kids.

[Don't look at me!]

Free stuff isn’t worth what you paid for it.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

This Bill person sounds nice and public-spirited.

[Spiritus Mundi]

But at heart, still Florida man.

[A Thinking Mind]

I don't know, maybe he wants an excuse to have kids in bathing suits hanging around his pool. Kind of a creep, to me.

[R Mac]

Note who brought it up…

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Speaking of which:

Top Pentagon official Stephen Hovanic, 64, who oversaw the entire US military schools system is busted 'paying undercover agent for sex in motel room where he asked "can we do a half hour?"' - before claiming to cops he was only there for a massage

A top Pentagon official has been arrested for allegedly paying an undercover agent for sex in a motel room - before claiming to cops he was only there for a massage.
Stephen Hovanic, 64, of Sharpsburg, Georgia, entered the room with the woman, placed his sunglasses next to a condom and asked her if they could 'do a half hour,' before cops barged through the door...
Hovanic was charged with pandering, which is misdemeanor solicitation of sex.
He worked for the Department of Defense Education Activity for over two decades - and was in charge of the schools educating children of US military servicemen and women on bases across the world.

Just a reminder that, for all the shit the Catholic Church rightly gets for sexual abuse by its priests, or the Boy Scouts got for its scoutmasters, the level of grooming and sexual abuse in the nation's schools is absolutely nuclear-level. And it's primarily because an institution where adults are required to be around kids all day is inevitably going to attract pedophiles and deviants.

[Overt]

As a Scoutmaster, the level of scrutiny in the modern Scouts BSA organization is almost unworkable. Two deep leadership at all events, one of them being female if girls are present. If a boy’s troop and girl’s troop are doing some joint activity, that’s 4 total leaders including a female. No 1:1 contact with Scouts who aren’t your children. Scouts have to buddy up with someone their age and gender, and may not tent with older Scouts. All leaders camping with Scouts must be registered, paying an annual fee and getting background checks. Parents (whether or not they are leaders) are expected to take Youth Protection Training and are told to report EVERYTHING to local authorities first, and the Scouts second.

I have had to call off numerous events or send girls home because I couldn’t get adult leader representation. Meanwhile, I regularly see adults in the school system going into classrooms alone with children, giving them rides home, and engaging in after school activities. The amount of abuse in the Public education system is systemic, and is regularly hidden beneath the covers. A teacher at my kids’ school “accidentally” showed pornography on his laptop to a classroom, and was quietly shuffled away to another location.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Most of the chimping out against the church or the Boy Scouts wasn't necessarily because of the abuse itself, but because the left saw it as a way to target institutions they hate. Meanwhile, sexual abuse in the schools is absolutely rampant, but you don't see them apply the same broad brush because teachers are largely left-wing these days.

[R Mac]

Just take your kids and their friends camping?

[A Thinking Mind]

Oh, spare me. An adult man paid an adult woman for sex? Good for them both. He got what he wanted, she got paid.

Trying to claim this is something insidious or somehow denotes a connection to pedophilia is stealing a few bases.

[Don't look at me!]

Yeah, didn’t see the connection.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

An adult man paid an adult woman for sex? Good for them both. He got what he wanted, she got paid.

LOL, he didn't actually pay for anything. The woman was an undercover agent in a human trafficking sting. I shouldn't have to tell you that underage kids are also victims of this shit, but maybe it needs to be emphasized.

And guess the most hilarious part? As a DoD employee, he's required to review an anti-human trafficking CBT every year as part of his employment. ENB's sperging on this aside, this isn't some "Pretty Woman" shit. Cry all you want, it's still fucking illegal.

If he wanted to buy poon, he should have rented a porn star like Trump did.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Or gone to a brothel in Nevada.

[A Thinking Mind]

I shouldn’t have to tell you that underage kids are also victims of this shit, but maybe it needs to be emphasized.

"also" victims? Prostitutes aren't victims. This woman wasn't even a prostitute.

Show me kid victims and I'll be outraged. Show me adults engaging in mutual commerce, and it's just the market working properly.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Prostitutes aren’t victims.

Again, real life is not "Pretty Woman."

[Commenter_XY]

That is true. The life of a prostitute is nasty, brutal, and sometimes short.

[R Mac]

First they came for Robert Kraft, and I said nothing because I don’t own an NFL franchise…

[DesigNate]

+11

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Given that Florida is surrounded by water, it's probably a smart idea.

[Chumby]

The graduating kids can swim to Cuba to seek amnesty. They will be known as los sonadores.

[Idaho-Bob]

I'm old enough to remember basic swimming taught in public school PE classes. I imagine that went the way of shop and woodworking classes.

[JesseAz]

There are no pools in the 15 minute cities, just the oligarchs houses will have them.

[Medulla Oblongata]

But when the oceans rise and envelope Florida in 8 years (or is it 5 years, or 20 years? It's so hard to keep track of when the floodwaters will take us all), it will be nice to have all those kids be able to swim.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

I think that just depended on where you were. I went to two high schools that were built in the 60s--one had a pool, the other didn't, and the one that did was for the whole district. I'm sure the one that did was built with the intent of encouraging physical fitness in the wake of JFK getting the Presidential Fitness Test started.

Shop and home ec seemed to have disappeared around the late 90s-early 00s due to the rise of the internet, dual-income and single parent homes, and the overall decline of factory towns.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Many schools don't have pools due to their size (or lack thereof). My elementary school had a system whereby the morning was the basics (reading, writing, arithmetic), and the afternoon was electives - usually social studies and science, but also PE type classes. One of the most popular was a swimming class on Fridays. Given the makeup of the school (it was a magnet school for high achievers), it was one way poor minority smart kids could get free swimming lessons. Since the school did not have its own pool, we were bused down to the nearby YMCA's indoor pool.

[R Mac]

Welfare. Also a good idea that people can give to charity for.

[A Thinking Mind]

It's absolutely welfare. Even if you can't swim, as a parent, you can probably FIND someone who'll teach your kid to swim either very cheap or free.

I don't see it as a necessary function of government or a reasonable expenditure aimed at a public policy. If you don't want your kids to drown, take some responsibility yourself.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

But no drag queen swimming instructors? How Nazi.

[R Mac]

You’ve spoiled Jeffy’s follow up question.

[Chumby]

They would teach the fake breast stroke.

[Overt]

"Smart idea, or welfare?"

It is welfare, it is not libertarian (i.e. a bad idea), but it has a smart implementation. I don't generally support Welfare, but it's simply a fact that a majority of the population disagrees and wants compulsory social safety nets for the truly unfortunate. If we are going to have welfare, then vesting control of money with the rights-holder, and exposing it to as many market forces as possible is the lesser weevil.

The proposed bill offers swimming-lesson vouchers to kids whose family is no more than 200% the poverty line. The bad thing is that this is taking money from citizens to give to others for a non-necessity. The good thing is that the Parents get to choose how the money will be spent, which is both moral and will drive better market outcomes. The other good thing is that it limits the market impact to a small portion of the population. A crude view of the data suggests that with 13% of the population below 200% poverty, and 25% of the population being kids, we are talking about a benefit that is available to about 3% of the population. How much gets used is an open question. (Can a single parent find the time to get kids to lessons, even with a voucher?) But the market impact will be lower than, say, a voucher offered to ALL children, which basically creates a price floor and ultimately increases the costs for everyone.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I think this is the most sensible take here.

[R Mac]

Three hours later and Lying Jeffy hasn’t responded to a single response to the thread he started. Wonder why?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Because I have a job, unlike you who sits around collecting a Social Security check while demanding that government keeps its hands off your Medicare.

[R Mac]

More lies from Lying Jeffy.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Nah I think it's probably the truth. We've already demonstrated that you call me a liar even when I am telling the truth.

[R Mac]

We have not. I also don’t believe you really think I’m on SS or Medicare.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

We have not.

I have. You are too pussy to admit it.

I also don’t believe you really think I’m on SS or Medicare.

It's a reasonable conclusion.

[R Mac]

More lies.

[Fist of Etiquette]

A direct quote from Cardona: "I think it was President Reagan who said, 'We're from the government. We're here to help!'"

You can't spell irony without Ron.

Next they'll be quoting him favorably for outlawing Russia and then bombing it in 5 minutes.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Understanding things is not a requirement in the age of DEI.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Actually, not understanding things is a requirement for DEI zealots.

[A Thinking Mind]

Before you know it, we'll see them admonishing public sector union employees who refuse to go to work.

[damikesc]

This has to be the dumbest thing ever said by a politician.

It's a high hurdle to clear, but I think he did so admirably.

[Don't look at me!]

Not as bad as Guam tipping over.

[mad.casual]

I know I'm probably not going to surprise anyone with this but I'm still hung up on the notion of blocking and screening people you don't like constituting the act of or being a Good Samaritan.

Certainly not a more singularly stupid reversal of word and intent but bought and sold much, much further to much, much greater effect.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Reagan summarized his long-held suspicions about the effectiveness and morality of the role of government in people's lives by saying, "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

[The Margrave of Azilia]

"Hamas has so far released 50 Israeli hostages taken in the October 7 pogrom; Israel has released 150 Palestinian prisoners who been tried in court and held in Israeli jails."

But...muh moral equivalence!

[Rev Arthur L kuckland]

From the river to the sea isralies will be free.

[Commenter_XY]

I am stealing that:

From the river, to the sea, Israel shall soon be free.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

I've been tossing that one out for a while. Usually gets... vigorous responses.

[JesseAz]

One innocent civilian is worth 3 convicted terrorists. Did you know Israel even refused to give free facial reconstruction to one of them?? The outrage.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Well, she did blow herself up at their check point.

[JesseAz]

Narrative! Her car accidentally caught fire just as she was passing a checkpoint! There was a documentary!! Something something airbag exploding.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Was she driving a Bentley? I can't keep up anymore.

[mad.casual]

A Bentley? Fucking colonizers man, I tell ya.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland]

Don't worry China will solve the issue using concentration camls

[Moonrocks]

How hard can those camels concentrate?

[A Cynical Asshole]

Also, I would think concentrating a bunch of camels along with people would be a good way to invite a MERS outbreak.

[R Mac]

Also, do camels have fleas? Ticks?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Yes.

[Chumby]

They will have to overcome the learning hump.

[R Mac]

They grew up in an education desert.

[A Thinking Mind]

4/10

[mad.casual]

AFAICT, *all* the camel puns are the result of lazy evaluation.

[R Mac]

Read that as lazy evolution.

[Chumby]

The Obersturmführer in charge of the camp will blast Oasis over the loudspeakers 24/7.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Not Maria Muldaur?

[TheReEncogitationer]

Is this something like Men Who Stare At Goats?
🙂
😉

[mad.casual]

China using concentration CAML to solve their respiratory disease problem is its own reward.

[Fist of Etiquette]

This school district in Evanston, Illinois, just straight-up brought back racial segregation...

It's becoming less of a joke.

[Fist of Etiquette]

How long until they're bussing them away from each other.

[Fist of Etiquette]

(I'm afraid when I read the article there actually will be bussing.)

[Don't look at me!]

They better be electric busses!

[Longtobefree]

Turns out that's how the energy secretary gets paid!

https://thefederalist.com/2023/11/24/the-biden-administrations-electric-vehicle-subsidies-are-becoming-another-solyndra/

[MK Ultra]

Who doesn't love a yellow school bus?

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Ken Kesey?

[Spiritus Mundi]

We should make a venn diagram to figure it out.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Paging VP Cackles!

[JesseAz]

Yet shrike and Jeff totally believe the southern strategy meant all the segragationists became conservatives.

[Mother's Lament]

They don't believe that at all, but it is one of their narratives.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Evanston is a weird place. The city council there is one of the few that approved reparations to people due to skin color.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Any college town is going to be functionally retarded.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

True, but Evanston really takes the cake around here, being on par with Oak Park and Park Ridge (which aren't college towns). Champaign and Urbana are nowhere near that nuts, nor are Normal and DeKalb.

[A Cynical Asshole]

I would certainly hope a place called Normal wouldn't be crazy... unless crazy is the "new Normal."

[Medulla Oblongata]

During COVID (and I mean like 5 minutes after the first case happened...March 13 2020) this crazed mayor had to have had her plan in a red folder she kept in her top drawer waiting for the chance), the mayor in Champaign IL issued a set of emergency orders that basically gave her unlimited power.

I'll just list the first and last of her 30 self-proclaimed emergency powers:

The mayor shall be permitted to:

(1) Issue such other orders as are imminently necessary for the protection of life and property.

(30) Issue any and all such other orders or undertake such other functions and activities as the Mayor reasonably believes is required to protect the health, safety, and welfare of persons or property within the City or otherwise preserve the public peace or abate, clean up, or mitigate the effects of any emergency or disaster.

The only check on her "powers" was that the City Council could vote to override her orders. But we have item

(11) Temporarily suspend, limit, cancel, convene, reschedule, postpone, continue, or relocate all meetings of the City Council, and any City committee, commission, board, authority, or other City body as deemed appropriate by the Mayor.

So if she indefinitely suspends all City Council meetings, the City Council cannot vote to override her orders, such orders can be ANYTHING THE MAYOR WANTS, all she has to do is say "public health".

Among the powers Feinen gained after signing the executive order was the power to ban the sale of guns, ammunition, alcohol, and gasoline. Feinen could also cut off access to individuals' gas, water, or electricity. The city also has the ability to "take possession of private property" or order the temporary closing of all bars or liquor stores.

And P.S., she claimed her powers extended 2 miles beyond the city limits.

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/wandtv.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/51/551ced24-6535-11ea-9826-4f4fd396dacb/5e6b960454b21.pdf.pdf

[Medulla Oblongata]

Some of the goodies she at near the top of her list:

(3) Order the closing of all retail liquor stores, including taverns and private clubs or
portions thereof wherein the consumption of intoxicating liquor and beer is permitted;
(4) Order the discontinuance of the sale of alcoholic liquor by any wholesaler or retailer;
(5) Order the discontinuance of selling, distributing, or giving away gasoline or other
liquid flammable or combustible products in any container other than a gasoline tank
properly affixed to a motor vehicle;
(6) Order the discontinuance of selling, distributing, dispensing or giving away of
explosives or explosive agents, firearms or ammunition of any character whatsoever;
(7) Order the control, restriction and regulation within the City by rationing, issuing
quotas, fixing or freezing prices, allocating the use, sale or distribution of food, fuel,
clothing and other commodities, materials, goods or services or the necessities of life;

[Commenter_XY]

Was she voted out?

[Medulla Oblongata]

Nope. Still mayor.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Talk to teachers who work in "vibrantly diverse" environments, and it's actually pretty remarkable how the kids end up conforming to stereotypes. Having gone to a school like this, I've also seen it first-hand.

The African American kids tend to spend most of class time fucking around, snapping their fingers, cripping, and yapping. Expecting them to display an attention span of 30 seconds is about 20 seconds too long, and teachers end up spending an inordinate amount of class time trying to keep them on task, rather than actually teaching. A lot of them will be told not to do something, do it ten minutes later, will literally not remember being told not to do it, and for the cherry on top, won't even remember that they did it not even ten minutes after that. Or they'll ask a question on something where the information was literally given to them 5 minutes earlier. The few who do pay attention tend to go into politics or become the social activists we know and love.

Actual African kids, by contrast, tend to be far more studious and serious due to family pressures. If they don't fall into ghetto culture due to peer pressure, which ends up derailing them, these are typically the kids you see go on to high-achieving jobs like doctors or engineers, or take over a family business their parents might have set up. Their biggest hurdle is mainly overcoming the mockery of the black American kids for being too smart.

The Hispanic kids are largely screwoffs, too, but they'll be somewhat more deferential to authority and will even acknowledge that they know what they did was wrong when they fuck up, but usually couch it as being under peer or family pressures, such as if their parents are gangbangers and they're doing initiation shit, e.g. if they get caught bringing a gun to school. They tend to have a lot of real pride, and the boys in particular you can often manage misbehavior by telling them that acting up is baby shit. Once you actually have their respect, they may not be great students, but they at least won't go out of their way to be a pain in the ass to you.

The white and Asian kids, what few there are in these environments, tend to get lost in the shuffle, and the ones that succeed are either major self-starters, or the teachers do study hall setups for them because it's the only way to provide them with a quiet environment for actual learning.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The irony of segregating the Hispanic and black kids is that it might actually end up benefitting the white and Asian kids because there won’t be as much classroom disruption. It's basically a form of academic "time-out" disguised as ethno-nationalist bonding.

[mad.casual]

Talk to teachers who work in “vibrantly diverse” environments, and it’s actually pretty remarkable how the kids end up conforming to stereotypes. Having gone to a school like this, I’ve also seen it first-hand.

Yeah, the Smithsonian display about the characteristics of white culture wasn’t right… but it wasn’t exactly wrong either. And, per the display, isn’t limited strictly to academics.

Saw it on my son’s Middle School (and HS) football team first hand the last couple years. There were people, from several races with all manner of skin tones who showed up on time, to every practice, worked hard, and earned starting positions on a winning team… and then there were a different culture of people with less diverse racial backgrounds and skin tones who didn’t show up on time, didn’t make every practice, and complain/ed that they aren’t/weren’t getting the same amount of playing time as their peers.

The two total losses between the two seasons and two coaching staffs would seem to make the causal disparity self-evident... but that's only true if you subscribe to a cause-and-effect culture.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

A family friend of ours was a vice principal at a majority Hispanic (like, 95%) high school for a couple of years. This high school is largely run on the underground by the youth branch of a Mexican Mafia cartel, so the kid who’s in charge of the branch has a lot of stroke with the other students. However, most mischief is relegated to off-campus shit because starting riots and mass fights in the school is a quick way to bring down unwanted police attention on everyone.

One math teacher had the cartel youth leader in her class, and he liked her enough that he told the other gang members in school to not mess with her and do their work. One day, she was working out math problems the way some people do by using their fingers. The kid’s girlfriend wasn’t really paying attention, saw the counting, and somehow thought she was flashing signs for another gang, so she got up, and started yelling at her and threatening to beat her up. He literally told the girl to sit her dumb ass down, shut up, and stop being stupid, and the teacher didn’t have another incident with anyone the entire rest of the year.

[A Cynical Asshole]

Had a great time in Manhattan yesterday recording something new and fun. Will keep you all guessing.

My guess: yet another podcast. How many is that now for Reason?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Gladiator-style hobo fights?

[A Cynical Asshole]

Do you like movies about gladiators?

[Jefferson Paul]

I'm a big fan of Dave Smith, so I will probably watch this episode at least, once it's available.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Because it irks you all so much, here's an article from Reuters.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/greek-pm-expresses-annoyance-after-meeting-with-british-pm-cancelled-over-2023-11-27/

So, the Greeks and the Brits disagree about the "Elgin Marbles", friezes taken from the Athenian Parthenon in the 19th century by Lord Elgin, Britain's ambassador to the Ottoman Empire. Elgin said that he had the permission of the Ottomans, who ruled Greece at the time.

So, for the libertarian purists: who is in the right here? Did the British government (via its ambassador) commit aggression against the Greeks by stealing the statues? If the Greek government were to take (by force?) the statues out of the British museum, would it be 'theft' or 'justice'?

[Nobartium]

19th century

Statue of limitations definitely applies.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

This is more of a moral argument. Is there a statute of limitation for NAP violations?

[Medulla Oblongata]

Tell people the frieze was made for slaveowners and someone will be along shortly to break it up with a sledgehammer. Problem solved.

[Don't look at me!]

I couldn’t give two fucks about old statues.

[Mother's Lament]

Creamjeff doesn't give two fucks about the statues or his question either.
He's just butthurt after his Reuters debacle yesterday and is trying to troll. He's probably furious that people are giving normal responses.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Oh look, ML showed up. Are you finally done throwing the gays off of buildings?

[Mother's Lament]

That's your pal's in Hamas' job, Herr Jeffy.

Say, have you and your friend smashed any Jewish merchant's store windows today?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

See, I can play the "make shit up" game too.

How many progressives have you murdered today, ML?
How many Trump rallies have you bought tickets for?

[Mother's Lament]

Hold up, so are you saying that New York progressives weren't deliberately smashing the windows of Jewish owned stores this week?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Hold up, did you just totally try to stuff an argument into my mouth? Why yes you did!

[R Mac]

He’s right though. You asked two questions 3 hours ago and this is the only response you made in both threads, and it has nothing to do with either topic you asked about.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Oh fuck off. I don't have infinite time to sit around on comment threads like you evidently do.

[R Mac]

Lol, you skipped over legit answers to your questions to lie about ML. It’s telling.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

It's telling that I derive joy from dishing out shit to ML? Yes, it is true.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Would it be as telling as, say, if I only had time to post 10 comments, and I chose to use 9 of those 10 comments trolling the same person? Telling like that, hmm Mr. Troll Mac?

[R Mac]

No, it’s much more telling. You took the effort to post links, twice, and ask the rest of the commentariat questions about liberty relating to the links, then ignored everyone’s legitimate responses, instead focusing on lying about ML.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Lying? Who says it's a lie? ML should prove that he's not murdering progressives.

The only telling thing about this whole conversation is that you are obsessed with me. I should start charging you rent.

[R Mac]

Lol, you already told on yourself, Lying Jeffy:

chemjeff radical individualist 47 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
See, I can play the “make shit up” game too

Lying comes so natural to you, not only do you forget when you lie, you forget when you admit you lied. Fucking psychopath.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

But if I'm that much of a liar, how do you know that I am telling the truth in that post that you quoted? Maybe that is the lie and ML really is murdering progressives. How do you know?

Come to think of it, how do we know that you aren't murdering progressives as well?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Really, Jeffy, you're down to this, claiming specific people are murdering progressives or transgenders? It's pretty pathetic.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

How many progressives have you murdered today, ITC? Does Nardz pay you a bounty?

[R Mac]

So you’re lying one way or the other.

You’re really bad at this Lying Jeffy.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

chemjeff radical individualist 4 mins ago
How many progressives have you murdered today, ITC? Does Nardz pay you a bounty?

1. It's ITL, Jeffy.

2. I've murdered enough of them today.

3. Yes, two bars of gold-pressed latinum, a couple of dragons, and half a quatloo for each one.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You’re really bad at this Lying Jeffy.

Bad at this? But you've already condemned me as a liar a long time ago. What are you talking about? Didn't you mean to say that I'm a really *good* liar?

Do you mean to say that all the times when you call me "Lying Jeffy", it's just a childish insult?

[R Mac]

Oh no, you’re great at lying. It’s this game you’re trying to play you’re bad at. You’re embarrassing yourself.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

No, I think you gave the game away.

You are a troll who just trolls.

Of course I make shit up about ML - because I don't give a shit about him. He lies about me constantly. He calls me a Nazi among other things. Why should I give a damn about being respectful towards him? Same goes for you, for that matter. I don't give a shit about lying TOWARDS YOU. Because you lie about me. You are an asshole and a troll who deserves it.

Put yourself in my shoes for a moment. Why should I give you one nanosecond worth of respect or consideration? Hmm?

So fuck you. I'll treat you however I want to treat you. Because it doesn't matter what I say, you are going to call me a liar no matter what, EVEN WHEN I'M TELLING THE TRUTH. You have made that patently obvious.

[R Mac]

Thanks for admitting you lie Lying Jeffy.

“Why should I give you one nanosecond worth of respect or consideration?”

You’ve given me much more than a nanosecond of consideration today, to assist me in showing you’re a liar, for some odd reason.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

About you? Oh sure. I will happily slander you and treat you like dirt. Because that is how you have treated me.

Is it your goal here to bait and provoke people into behaving badly? And then when they do, use their bad behavior as weapons against them? Is that your whole strategy here?

[Mother's Lament]

Here's Jeff's pals playing Kristallnacht.

Where's yours on me, Herr Jeffy?

[R Mac]

No.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Oh yes it is. That is exactly what you do, Troll Mac.

[R Mac]

Nope. You are only one person, not “people”, and I don’t need to bait you.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I think you're lying, like you constantly do.

I think you purposefully provoke people, not just me (I've seen you treat sarcasmic similarly), and then weaponize their responses back against them. That is primarily why you come here. It isn't to discuss issues, you hardly ever do that. It's to bait and troll.

It's because you're a horrible human being.

[R Mac]

So you’re saying I control you and sarc?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

The words are "provoke" and "bait". That is what you do. Just fess up.

[R Mac]

I do mock you, how you react is up to you. See the thread below started by ML about the UN. I was mocking your previous stupidity about CNN being real journalism. I had no idea you’d tard rage and embarrass yourself again by defending the UN. It does amuse me though.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Oh, I missed that one.

[Knutsack]

You say Elgin stated he had permission, but then you say he stole the statues.

Is there evidence that Elgin didn't have permission?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

There is some controversy on that point.

[Zeb]

I don't think there is a particularly libertarian answer. It's a fight between governments. I'm not convinced that countries automatically collectively own ancient artifacts. And a lot of artifacts removed in the 19th century and earlier were likely saved from destruction or further decay.

[R Mac]

“I don’t think there is a particularly libertarian answer.”

This.

[A Thinking Mind]

That's very likely what happened. As I understand it, Elgin was looking an older survey of the Parthenon, from over a century earlier, and noted that some of the statues seemed to be missing. He came to believe, true or not, that missing statues been used as scrap by locals, so he arranged the purchase in order to preserve them.

They were legally purchased, as far as I can tell. I don't see any cultural claim that a country has permanent property rights over its artwork that trumps basic property rights. I'm on the British side on this.

I'm certainly not in favor of returning Manhattan to the Lenape Indians just because they historically owned it.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

As I understand it, Elgin was looking an older survey of the Parthenon, from over a century earlier, and noted that some of the statues seemed to be missing. He came to believe, true or not, that missing statues been used as scrap by locals, so he arranged the purchase in order to preserve them.

Yeah, a lot of cultural artifacts that neo-marxist morons claim was "stolen" by the Evil White Oppressor was likely saved from being taken by indigenous looters, or tourists looking for memorabilia from their visits. It's one of the few functions where governments actually did some good by preserving these items and surveying their locations so that we have a better understanding of past civilizations and societies.

There's nothing wrong with the statues being returned now if Greece indicates that they will be taken care of, but at the time saving them was a significant enough concern that Elgin was able to convince the Ottomans to approve their removal.

[A Thinking Mind]

It’s one of the few functions where governments actually did some good by preserving these items and surveying their locations so that we have a better understanding of past civilizations and societies.

Well keep in mind that, as far as I can tell, he paid for them out of his own pocket, going into debt, and then had to convince the British Museum to buy them off of him for their own collection a couple of years later. So I won't chalk this up for a purely government win since it was a pet project of a private individual, even though he was a state functionary at the time.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

There's other cases where similar efforts were made. The artifacts at the Mesa Verde and Chaco Culture sites come to mind. There's a lot of abandoned sites out in the Colorado Plateau area where artifacts are mainly preserved just because the sites are relatively inaccessible, but the ones that weren't were often looted long before they gained government oversight. A lot of Mesa Verde's artifacts were gathered up and sent off to Norway

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

I’m certainly not in favor of returning Manhattan to the Lenape Indians just because they historically owned it.

But I'd love to watch the reaction of New Yorkers being told that was going to happen. 😀

[Mickey Rat]

And it complicated by the fact that Greece was ruled by from the Greek POV, a foreign empire. which had oppressed them for centuries. So the Greeks do not view a sale as legitimate, even if it was on the up and up at the time.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

So the Greeks do not view a sale as legitimate,

I think that would be the counter-argument here. Perhaps the Ottomans were not the legitimate owners of the property in question.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Playing Devil's Advocate here, the Ottomans were the government of the area in question until 1821. That said, the Greeks have had quite the beef with them since at least 1453.

[Medulla Oblongata]

I basically had the notion that we should ignore the Taliban, right up until they blew up those Buddhas. Same for ISIS, when they started destroying world heritage sites.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

In that vein, one could make the argument that Elgin saved the marbles from the looming Greek War of Independence.

[R Mac]

“Because it irks you all so much, here’s an article from Reuters.”

But don’t you dare call Lying Jeffy a troll.

[Chumby]

Britain has the stones to pull this off. Take that for granite.

[mulched]

Time for a frieze on further transfers. The statuary of limitations has expired.

[Chumby]

They’ll be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[JesseAz]

Classical Chumby

[InsaneTrollLogic]

He's hellas good.

[R Mac]

But not helles good?

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

All seems rather byzantine to me.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Hey now, Chumby, that's statutory rape!...Which sadly seems to be a common motif here in the Comments.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

I dunno. How about all the money the Greeks have swindled from government and private sources? Maybe give them a choice: Elgin Marbles or pay off all original debts?

[TheReEncogitationer]

The Islamic Ottoman Empire and the Anglican British Empire have no sympathy from this Atheist Libertarian, but neither does the Greek Government, especially since one of their previous administrations in Athens murdered Socrates.

The statues should go to the heirs of whomever made them, if those can be found or, failing that, should be treated as any entestate property.

[Jefferson Paul]

How can you tell if someone is an atheist?

–they tell you at every opportunity

[Jefferson Paul]

(Don't get butthurt--I'm an atheist myself.)

You can also use that joke but make it about vegans. Vegans more than anyone love to tell you all about their vegan diet and lifestyle, even when it isn't germane to the conversation.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Stonetossers probably put it best: https://i1.wp.com/stonetoss.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/vegans-and-cyclists-comic.png?fit=1000%2C1000

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

Heheheheheh

[Minadin]

Were the frieses in danger of being damaged, destroyed, or lost to history if he did not preserve them?

Muslims have a religious and cultural issue with graven images (like statues) that are in the form of people and animals.

Look at what the Ottomans did to the original artwork of the Hagia Sophia when they took it over and converted it into a mosque. Look at what Islamists have done more recently to historical sites at Palmyra and at Bamiyan in Afghanistan, or Timbuktu.

[A Cynical Asshole]

One of these things is not like the other:

Hamas has so far released 50 Israeli hostages taken in the October 7 pogrom; Israel has released 150 Palestinian prisoners who been tried in court and held in Israeli jails.

If you can tell the difference then congratulations, you're not a complete moron.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Yeah, but I still thought "those people" were better at making deals.

[Chumby]

A recession is when your neighbor loses his job. A depression is when you lose your job. A recovery is when Biden loses his job.

[JesseAz]

Look fat. Prices are down 5% since he increased them by 40%. Appreciate Bidenomics or forever be a dog faced pony soldier.

[Moderation4ever]

Really what is the Republican plan? More tax cuts for the wealthiest? I hear a lot of complaints but not much more than that.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

One more time. Given that "the wealthy" pay almost all taxes, any tax cuts will go to them. But you knew that, right?

[Moderation4ever]

So maybe that says we don't need tax cuts anymore.

[Don't look at me!]

How does it say that?

[R Mac]

Parody.

[JesseAz]

How are you dumbfucks still claiming this false narrative when even the NYT admitted over 80% of the last tax cuts were for the bottom 90%?

[Moderation4ever]

Got a citation for that or are you pulling this out of the air?

[JesseAz]

Every news site dummy. It was widely reported.

As stated. NYT.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/14/business/economy/income-tax-cut.html

[Moderation4ever]

While people did get tax cuts the fact is that the cuts were small. So small, as your article notes, that most people did not even think they got a tax cut. Wealthier people got more of a tax cut and their cuts were made permit, not so for the rest of us. Let me counter with;

https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/fundamentally-flawed-2017-tax-law-largely-leaves-low-and-moderate-income

[Jefferson Paul]

My understanding was that tax revenue actually increased after the 2017 tax cuts (Laffer curve). Is that not true?

[DesigNate]

I knew I had gotten the tax cuts for the two years I was a W2 employee before deciding the economy was doing gang busters and it was time to strike out on my own.

But, your average household income totes wouldn’t have noticed a couple hundred dollars a month. (Massive fucking eyeroll)

@jefferson: it is 100% true that revenue has gone up every year since, except that time the democrats decide to slit the economies throat.

[Super Scary]

I literally took the second half of JesseAz's sentence, unedited, put it into Google and the very first result was the article he was talking about. It isn't hard to find things on the internet.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

M4e, like Liarson, just doesn't want to do the leg work. If he looked, he wouldn't be able to try to continue to berate Jesse with lies and mal-information.

[Medulla Oblongata]

https://news.yahoo.com/irs-data-prove-trump-tax-130007569.html

That means most middle-income and working-class earners enjoyed a tax cut that was at least double the size of tax cuts received by households earning $1 million or more.

What's more, IRS data shows earners in higher income brackets contributed a bigger slice of the total income tax revenue pie following the passage of the tax reform law than they had in the previous year.

In fact, every income bracket with filers earning $200,000 or more increased its tax burden in 2018 compared to 2017, and every income bracket with a top limit lower than $200,000 paid a smaller proportion of the total personal tax revenue collected.

That means that Republicans' tax reform law resulted in the tax code becoming slightly more progressive - the exact opposite of what Democrats have claimed over the past four years.

[DesigNate]

Yay for eliminating SALT deductions and making democrats on the coasts pay their fair share!*

*income tax is immoral as fuck, but the schadenfruede of rich democrats complaining about paying more taxes is hilarious.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Futurism caught Sports Illustrated publishing AI stories...

Just when I thought Skynet couldn't sink lower than waging war on humanity, it becomes a sports journalist.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

ChatGPT, write an article about immigration in the style of Reason magazine.

Title: Navigating the Complex Landscape of Immigration: A Reasoned Perspective

Introduction:

In the ongoing discourse surrounding immigration, Reason magazine stands as a beacon of thoughtful analysis, embracing the principles of individual liberty, free markets, and limited government. As we delve into the multifaceted issue of immigration, it becomes imperative to scrutinize policies through the lens of reason, seeking solutions that align with the values of a free and prosperous society.

The Economic Imperative:

Reason has long championed the economic benefits of immigration, recognizing that a dynamic and growing economy relies on the contributions of individuals from diverse backgrounds. Immigrants, often driven by the pursuit of opportunity, bring with them a strong work ethic, entrepreneurial spirit, and innovative ideas that invigorate and enrich the economic landscape.

Contrary to common misconceptions, numerous studies support the idea that immigrants complement rather than compete with native workers. Reasoned analysis reveals that immigrants contribute to job creation, wage growth, and overall economic productivity. Rather than viewing immigration as a drain on resources, Reason magazine encourages a nuanced understanding that appreciates the positive economic impacts of a welcoming and inclusive immigration policy.

The Humanitarian Imperative:

Reason's commitment to individual liberty extends to a principled stance on the humanitarian aspect of immigration. The magazine contends that a compassionate and rational approach is essential in addressing the plight of refugees and asylum seekers. Balancing national security concerns with the moral imperative to provide refuge to those fleeing persecution requires careful consideration and a commitment to upholding the values of freedom and justice.

Reason recognizes that a system marred by bureaucratic hurdles and inefficiencies undermines the very ideals upon which the United States was founded. Through reasoned analysis, the magazine calls for reforms that streamline the immigration process, ensuring that individuals seeking safety and a better life are not subject to unnecessary delays and hardships.

National Security and the Rule of Law:

While championing the economic and humanitarian imperatives, Reason magazine also underscores the importance of national security and the rule of law. A reasoned approach to immigration acknowledges the need for a secure border and a system that upholds the laws of the land. Reason contends that an effective immigration policy must strike a delicate balance, fostering inclusivity without compromising the safety and well-being of the nation.

Reason advocates for comprehensive immigration reform that addresses border security concerns while promoting a legal immigration system that is efficient, transparent, and fair. Emphasizing the importance of preserving the rule of law, the magazine calls for solutions that discourage illegal immigration while providing a pathway for those who wish to contribute to society through legal means.

Conclusion:

In the spirit of reasoned analysis, Reason magazine navigates the complexities of immigration, weaving together economic, humanitarian, and security considerations. A commitment to individual liberty, free markets, and limited government underpins the magazine's perspective, offering a nuanced and principled approach to one of the most contentious issues of our time. As we grapple with the challenges and opportunities posed by immigration, Reason magazine continues to advocate for policies that reflect the ideals of a free and prosperous society.

[JesseAz]

Is that any different than if you asked it to write it in the spirit of DEI?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Written just like a mediocre college student, who can include all the concept labels and trite statements without any critical interpretation (or understanding).

[Fist of Etiquette]

Nooooooooooo!

[Fist of Etiquette]

cant decide whats better people clapping as if this tortured stat makes any sense or biden acting proud as if he understood the words he just read

Biden's handlers have no idea what the cost of Thanksgiving dinner generally is.

[Nobartium]

Integration remains a mistake that we as a society tried to force. It was only a matter of time before we started going back on it.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Oh, please, there's nothing wrong with expanding one's association beyond your own skin color. If it's done as social engineering it's bad, but the same could be said of many social engineering projects.

Speaking of social engineering, what would going back on integration entail? "Voluntarily retire to your racial corners"? I think a policy like you want would involve some coercion, just like anti-integration measures of the past.

Trying to solve one form of racism with another is utterly nuts.

[Nobartium]

It would end up with the number of people self selecting into any integrated environment precipitously dropping to single percentages. Much like how it is in other mono-ethnic states.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

If you're in the emergency room and a doctor of another color tries to treat you, what would you do?

[Nobartium]

Myself, nothing.

But I wouldn’t begrudge anyone who said that they prefer someone of their own race.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Hey, that's the new hip thing in DEI medicine (unless you are white, then it is nasty racism).

[Medulla Oblongata]

Question reminds me of a personal anecdote:

Was in a diner nearby a few weeks ago having some lunch. A group of guys sat down at the booth adjacent to mine. They talked about many things that I could not help but overhear even as I tried to concentrate on my newspaper (I like places that leave some papers out for patrons to peruse!).

Anyway...after one guy talked about how both he and his dog were getting tested for Lyme disease, one of the others told a story about his last trip to the doctor.

Was for a routine physical, and he had been through all the first steps, stripping down, getting a gown on, peed in a cup, got his BP, height, weight etc.,, checked by a nurse who also went over his questionnaire.

The nurse left, saying "The doctor will be in with you shortly." leaving him sitting in his gown on the table in the exam room.
A few minutes later, another woman steps in. The guy says "That other nurse already did the prelims."

The woman says "Well, I'm the doctor. Would you like a male doctor...there's two men in this practice, and I can get one of them to do your exam, if you want...I understand that might make you more comfortable, but I'll tell you this now: I have the smallest fingers in this practice."

After they finished laughing--I turned around and said "I wasn't trying to eavesdrop, but that was a funny story."

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

"Who has the biggest?"

[Uilleam]

Incorrect. Integration was something that was happening organically, but was sabotaged, in order to maintain segregation by ‘race’ as a cudgel. This is the result. I recommend reading Thomas Sowell's "Discrimination and Disparities".

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

"This school district in Evanston, Illinois, just straight-up brought back racial segregation, under the guise of social justice."

Race-obsessed liberals should be furious. This approach directly contradicts what they've been saying for years: Studies prove a diverse learning environment benefits everyone!

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Logical (and moral) consistency is white privilege.

[Mother's Lament]

Oh look, the UN is trying to undermine basic freedom of speech, again.

https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000387339

It outlines a series of “concrete measures which must be implemented by all stakeholders: governments, regulatory authorities, civil society, and the platforms themselves.”

It calls for the imposition of global policies, through governments and businesses, designed to stop the spread of various forms of speech while promoting objectives such as “cultural diversity” and “gender equality.”

In particular, it aims to create an “Internet of Trust” by targeting what it calls “misinformation,” “disinformation,” “hate speech,” and “conspiracy theories.”

Examples of expression flagged to be stopped or restricted include concerns about elections, public health measures, and advocacy that could constitute “incitement to discrimination.”

[Idaho-Bob]

Examples of expression flagged to be stopped or restricted include concerns about elections, public health measures, and advocacy that could constitute “incitement to discrimination.”

In other words, do not criticize your government unless it is a conservative gov't.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

Are Democrats still allowed to question elections though? I mean, it wouldn't be right to hold them to the same standards as everyone else.

[Don't look at me!]

Plus, the construction of memory holes.

[R Mac]

But is your link straight journalism or opinion? That’s the important point, not the censorship.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

If you want to be well informed? Yeah it is actually. Are you getting the full story or are you just being propagandized? What ML isn't telling you is that his summary is coming from Epoch Times, not exactly an unbiased outlet.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/article/inside-the-un-plan-to-control-speech-online-5534524?rs=SHRMSTQB&instaaccount=secb64QXV0aG9ydGxrbmlnaHRvbkBnbWFpbC5jb20%3D&utm_source=ishare&utm_medium=Medium&utm_campaign=Campaign&utm_term=eet&utm_content=tt_1606_Share-joshvid_v2

Did you really think that ML read the whole 59 page report himself?

So if you want to know what the UN is *actually* up to, maybe you should seek a source that is going to present a more balanced view.

But if you just want your anti-UN bias confirmed, then yeah, who gives a shit. The UN sucks, they want to censor you, blah blah blah.

[R Mac]

So you support the UN, got it.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Where did I say that above, Troll Mac?

[Mother's Lament]

"What ML isn’t telling you is that his summary is coming from Epoch Times, not exactly an unbiased outlet.
Did you really think that ML read the whole 59 page report himself?"

I actually did, shitstain, and I learned about it from the Epoch Times, but who cares. What's important is I linked directly to the report to ruin your little game of attack the source.

It's quite the little racket you've got going on here. Pretending that if "X" says something it can be handwaved away, and if you're given evidence straight from the original source, you'll still handwave it away because "X" reported on it too.

There must be a picture of you in the "bad faith" encyclopedia article.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I actually did

Bullshit.

I learned about it from the Epoch Times

By “learned about it” you mean “copy-pasted their article”.

That is what gave away your dishonesty - you plagiarized them.

[R Mac]

I quoted from the actual source and you still played dumb. I guess you just don’t want to be well informed.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You quoted from the actual source, but your quote said nothing about what the guidelines were.

[R Mac]

What guidelines are appropriate for governments to have a role in people’s speech?

This is why no one takes you seriously as a libertarian. There’s no appropriate guidelines that the UN should be advocating for governments to address dis or misinformation of people’s speech. It’s not the government’s role. Ever.

This is why I treat you like this. No one else here that claims to be a libertarian would pretend there’s any role for the UN to do this at all. In fact, real libertarians don’t think the US should even be in the UN, let alone have it take our money for these bullshit papers.

But keep pretending this UN advocacy for government control of speech could possibly be appropriate, while talking out the other side of your mouth that you’re not defending the UN. You’re a fucking unprincipled clown.

HONK HONK!

[chemjeff radical individualist]

What guidelines are appropriate for governments to have a role in people’s speech?

Have you given this even 2 minutes of thought?

Do you want to start with libel & slander? How about fraud? These are all crimes that involve speech, that most if not all libertarians recognize as legitimate violations of the NAP, which therefore means that the government usually plays some role. So how can a government properly prosecute crimes of defamation, and crimes of fraud, without chilling legitimate speech? Maybe there ought to be some guidelines.

How about crimes involving a conspiracy? There is not as much libertarian consensus on this one, but still, that's another legitimate area of concern that involves speech which generally requires that government plays a role. So again, if one agrees that there can be legitimately a crime of conspiracy that involves speech, how can a government best prosecute this conspiracy without chilling legitimate speech? Gee maybe some guidelines here would be helpful.

And then we get to so-called 'disinformation' and 'misinformation'. Should government directly censor speech that it considers false? Most all of us here would say no. Should government censor by proxy speech that it considers false? Again most all of us here would say no. But even if we all agree on those two premises, it doesn't mean that the problems associated with disinformation and misinformation go away. Are there things that governments can do to help ameliorate those problems that don't involve direct censorship, or censorship by proxy? Wouldn't it be nice to know? And even if the UN has guidelines on this matter that we would reject, could they provide a starting point for some more libertarian-focused ideas to address these problems?

In fact, real libertarians don’t think the US should even be in the UN

Oh fuck you and your "real libertarian" bullshit. Didn't you above try to claim that "[t]here is no world, no hypothetical, no different circumstances, that libertarians shouldn’t support the guy that doesn’t want to start wars, or be a part of NATO"? Fuck you trying to dictate to everyone else what to think and how to vote. There is absolutely a libertarian case to be made for being a member of the UN - not as currently constructed, but as a voluntary association of nations to discuss issues of international interest before they turn into misunderstanding and conflict. It is the same as the libertarian case for joining any voluntary association.

UN advocacy for government control of speech

That's not what was presented, and since I am certain you didn't actually read the document, that is your bias showing. That is what you ASSUME the document says. Who knows, maybe the document does actually advocate for 'government control of speech'. But we won't know that unless we actually read it, will we?

Do you think that Epoch Times will actually provide a fair and balanced overview of the document? Do you care? Answer: no and no. You don't want facts, you want narrative. You want 'news' that confirms your biases. That is why you come here, that is why you mock and taunt me, that is why you are so friendly to the right-wingers here and you piss on everyone else.

[R Mac]

HONK HONK!

[chemjeff radical individualist]

So evidently R Mac doesn't think government has a role to play when it comes to the speech associated with defamation or fraud. Good to know.

[R Mac]

HONK HONK!

And you missed this response above clown:

https://reason.com/2023/11/28/war-on-pause/?comments=true#comment-10335337

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Got an answer here, buddy?
You've got time to post several other comments while not addressing this lie that you told about me?

[R Mac]

You don’t? Let’s see.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Where did I say that above, Troll Mac?
I didn't.
Admit that you lied about me.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Yoohoo, Troll Mac, remember this?
You lied, recant your lie.

[R Mac]

It’s a reasonable conclusion based on your posts in this thread. You’ve yet to convince me I was wrong.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

No, it is because you call me a liar even when I tell the truth, because you are a troll who trolls. And you lack all integrity to admit when you lie.

There is no possible way I can ever convince you that you are wrong, because you are not open to be persuaded in any good faith manner .

[Mother's Lament]

He didn't lie, Nazijeff. Implying an innuendo is just as incriminating as saying it explicitly and everyone can read your posts.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Yeah he did and you are white-knighting for your pal because you are just as much of a liar as he is.

[R Mac]

Again, you think we need to know what the actual guidelines from the UN are for governments to address people’s speech. That’s a defense of the UN. And a defense of government addressing people’s speech.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

We ought to know what the guidelines are before we cast judgment on them. Right?

Just imagine the reverse scenario:

Tony comes here and says:
"Look guys, here is an article from Salon which is saying that the Heritage Foundation is making some terrible recommendations."
You say:
"Well maybe, but let's take a look at what the Heritage Foundation is saying first..."
Tony: "No no, no need to look at what the recommendations are, just read the Salon article and the first paragraph of this 59-page document, that's all you need to know! Why it's terrible I tell you!"

Would you accept Tony's conclusion? Of course not.

But here you are, accepting fully ML's conclusion based on an Epoch Times article, and the first few paragraphs of a 59-page UN report, without reading the guidelines themselves.

Why is that?

[R Mac]

HONK HONK!

[DesigNate]

1. The Heritage Foundation isn’t a quasi-governmental entity supported by our tax dollars.

2. When the Heritage Foundation advocates for the government trampling civil rights, let us know so we can mock them.

3. We don’t need to know anything the second they didn’t mention fraud or libel (which personally should have high fucking bars to cross to ensure people’s free speech isn’t being shat on) but did mention “misinformation”.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

1. The Heritage Foundation isn’t a quasi-governmental entity supported by our tax dollars.

Irrelevant to the criticism at hand.

2. When the Heritage Foundation advocates for the government trampling civil rights, let us know so we can mock them.

They actually do, with plenty of their terrible social conservative policies, but again irrelevant to the criticism at hand.

3. We don’t need to know anything the second they didn’t mention fraud or libel (which personally should have high fucking bars to cross to ensure people’s free speech isn’t being shat on) but did mention “misinformation”.

How do you know the recommendations DON'T mention fraud or libel? From the totally-not-biased Epoch Times summary?

But at least you implicitly admit, unlike R Mac, that there is a very limited role for government to play in people's speech, in these two areas.

[R Mac]

“How do you know the recommendations DON’T mention fraud or libel? From the totally-not-biased Epoch Times summary?”

Lmao you glorious retard, the summary I quoted is IN THE UN REPORT!

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You posted a summary, not the recommendations.

[R Mac]

Haha, from the summary directly linked in the second sentence:

“SHORT SUMMARY“Since wars begin in the minds of men and women it is in the minds of men and women that the defences of peace must be constructed”Guidelines for an Internet for TrustSafeguarding freedom of expression and the right to information while dealing with dis- and misinformation, hate speech, and conspiracy theories requires a multistakeholder approach. This is the reason why UNESCO, the leading UN agency for the promotion and protection of freedom of expression and to information, is launching Guidelines for the Governance of Digital Platforms. The Guidelines outline a set of duties, responsibilities and roles for States, digital platforms, intergovernmental organizations, civil society, media, academia, the technical community and other stakeholders to enable the environment where freedom of expression and information are in the core of digital platforms governance processes.”

Do you really need to read all 57 pages to know what this is, Lying Jeffy?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

We get it. You don't want to be well informed.

[R Mac]

“The Guidelines outline a set of duties, responsibilities and roles for States, digital platforms, intergovernmental organizations”

Do you not understand what this means?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Well yes, I know what the words mean.
Don't you think you should know what those guidelines are if you want to be well informed?
Or are you just going to assume you know what they are, because "UN"?
Or are you going to trust Epoch Times to tell you the whole truth about what those guidelines are, because they would never lie to you or try to push an agenda on you?

[R Mac]

No, I don’t need to know what the specific guidelines for government’s duties, responsibilities and roles regarding speech are being proposed by the UN.

Keep going though Lying Jeffy, you’re spiraling to try and get me is amusing.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Why do you wish to remain ignorant of what these guidelines are?

[R Mac]

I’ve got enough information to know that the OP was accurate, thanks for playing.

But please, try to convince me the UN isn’t trying to undermine free speech. I dare you.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

No one can convince you, because you refuse to educate yourself. You have demonstrated to everyone here that you prefer biased opinionated articles over primary source material. You prefer narratives over facts.

[R Mac]

Aaannnddd, here’s Lying Jeffy defending the UN.

Thanks!

[chemjeff radical individualist]

There you go, you are lying about me.

Nowhere in this entire discussion have I "defended the UN". But that hasn't stopped you from claiming that I do, has it?

[R Mac]

Is the UN trying to get governments to censor speech Lying Jeffy?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Is the UN trying to get governments to censor speech

Well let’s see.

Since I am being honest here and I have not read the report either, the TRUTHFUL answer is, “I don’t know.”

But, since you are a dishonest shithead, you will try to use my honesty as a weapon against me and claim that by not denouncing the UN, that I am actually defending them. This is of course a false claim, but that hasn't stopped you before.

So this is a case where you don’t actually want an honest answer. You want people to give you the answer you are looking for – the UN wants governments to censor people. Because that is the reality that you WANT to be true.

So, which answer do you want from me? The honest answer, or the answer you are looking for?

[R Mac]

Lmao. You should probably stop calling others ignorant while arguing from complete ignorance.

But nice job defending the UN.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

But you and I are equally ignorant about what those guidelines specifically are. I haven't read them and I don't have believe for one moment that you have. Yet I am honest enough to admit that I don't know what they say, while you proudly celebrate your ignorance and demand I repeat your narrative in lieu of facts. Who is being the dishonest one here?

[DesigNate]

There. Should. Be. No. Guidelines.

This has been my libertarian TED talk. Thank you.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

That's not libertarian, that's reactionary.

[R Mac]

Thank you so much for this thread Lying Jeffy. Your defense of the UN is duly noted.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

That is your dishonest conclusion from your biased arrogant assumptions.

I never once defended any conclusion or any recommendation that the UN made. We never even got to the point of discussing what they were!

You're not a libertarian, you're just a reactionary moron. Do you have any forward-looking ideas to solve any pressing problem? Do you have anything of substance to add to any discussion that isn't just some form of saying "No, I disagree with all of you"?

What do you advocate FOR?

[DesigNate]

chemjeff radical individualist 11 hours ago
That’s not libertarian, that’s reactionary.

Since when could libertarians not be reactionary (mind you, it’s not fucking “reactionary” to unequivocally state that the UN has no business telling member states how to police speech).

[InsaneTrollLogic]

No, he probably doesn't. Being stuck at the bottom of a 55-gallon drum of Ben & Jerry's will do that to a person.

[R Mac]

Apparently he needs to know exactly what role governments need to play in speech before he can disagree with it.

But watch him spin, this will only get better.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

He spins anymore, and we can finally hook him up to a generator and light up a city block.

[A Thinking Mind]

If the US just decided to leave the UN, how much longer would the UN exist afterward?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

It might flounder for a while like the League of Nations did for its entire existence.

[R Mac]

Let’s find out!

[Longtobefree]

Solve two problems at once; move the entire UN corruption brigade to Gaza, and put up all of the NY homeless in their place.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Nice, win-win.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

But... can we put the illegals and homeless in Gaza too?

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

All I can say is: Stay tuned.

Joining the Legion of Skanks?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

A powder keg (and not a keg of Guinness).

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ireland-powder-keg-tucker-carlson-and-steve-bannon-ireland-stabbing-insanity-and

Tucker Carlson sat down with Steve Bannon to discuss last week’s terrorist incident in Ireland – where an Algerian immigrant went on a stabbing spree in downtown Dublin, attacking five people – including three children. Following the stabbing, anti-immigrant riots broke out across the country over the government’s general pro-immigrant policies.

The conversation quickly pivoted to the broader implications of immigration in Ireland, with Carlson criticizing the country’s significant transformation due to immigration, suggesting a deliberate plan. “That country has been completely transformed by immigration,” he argued.

“Ireland’s probably one of the worst if not the worst because the political class has totally sold out the people,” said Bannon, adding “Ireland is a powder keg and I think what you saw the other day in the response by the Garda, the response by the authorities was immediately to go after Conor McGregor and other folks who were saying hey we need to address this.”

Going beyond Ireland, Carlson and Bannon discussed the situation in the United States and other Western countries – with Bannon voicing concerns about increasing immigration and its impact on native populations, drawing parallels with Ireland’s situation. “The political class is very tied to Brussels,” Bannon noted, implying a disconnect between the governing elite and the populace.

“The Germans and the people in Brussels, the party of Davos just doesn’t think the working-class European population is very controllable, they think they’re dangerous,” said Bannon.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Bannon's not entirely off-base here. The Yellow Vest protests in France, the farmer protests in the Netherlands, and the trucker protests in Canada were a specific response to social engineering programs of the global political class.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Give Ireland back to the Irish.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

There's a funny sub-story in all of this, and that is that the Sinn Fein vocally supports open borders. A political-terror group that literally killed people to create an Irish Ethno-state now pushes for open borders. The long march didn't even spare Jerry Adams.

[Nardz]

Sinn Fein has always been communist at heart

[InsaneTrollLogic]

They just didn't want the English there.

[Chumby]

They welshed on a commitment to bring in others?

[Rev Arthur L kuckland]

1 people that read the new Yorker shouldn't procreate
2. Any time you encounter a "people are bad for the environment" phsyco, tell them the truth. If people are bad for the planet the the most moral action they can take is suicide.

[Mother's Lament]

"people that read the new Yorker shouldn’t can't procreate"

FTFY

Nobody's going to get pregnant from where they like to stick it.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

That is why indoctrinating young people is so important, right?

[Mother's Lament]

Progs reproduce by laying their ideological eggs in kids brains in schools.

[Don't look at me!]

Jessica Winter examines the "ethics of procreation in this burning, drowning world," for The New Yorker in what is a representative installment of the depressed-environmentalist genre.

The movie Idiocracy covered this.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

2. Any time you encounter a “people are bad for the environment” phsyco, tell them the truth. If people are bad for the planet the the most moral action they can take is suicide.

I always imagine that scene from Enemy At the Gates where Kruschev (Bob Hoskins) slides the pistol across the table to one of his Generals and says, "Now I've got to talk to the boss, perhaps you'd like to avoid the red tape."

[Mother's Lament]

"Still, this story is a good reminder that Zero-COVID policy was not only a disaster for civil liberties but also, in the long run, a disaster for many people's health."

J(ew)Free hardest hit.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

Parody is obsolete, Exhibit #4,930

The NFL needs to speak out against the Kansas City Chiefs fan in Black face, Native headdress

"Blackface" now includes painting one's face half black, half red at a sporting event.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Which side of their face is black, left or right? That's the important point.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Like Lokai and Beele on Star Trek?
🙂
😉
Star Trek Nails Racism
https://youtu.be/cxKEUwsBWLM?si=fi94U125z3k-hUcG

[Mother's Lament]

Last month a school expelled a boy for wearing "blackface" to a game.

Here's a picture if you want to be enraged. [Scroll down]

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Religious zealots don't do parody.

[TheReEncogitationer]

From all the memes I've seen, I thought a half-red half-black face meant you were Anarcho-Communist.
🙂
😉

[Rev Arthur L kuckland]

The NFL needs to speek out against their shit employees.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

To be fair, the tard in this case works for Deadspin, not the NFL.

[Chumby]

Not surprised that the red face failed to be the chief complaint.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

They weren't brave enough for it.

[Chumby]

Some triggered group may sioux over this.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

But, will they Crow about it too?

[Don't look at me!]

Was he scalping tickets as well?

[Don't look at me!]

As my cousin Vinny would say, You never know what today’s Utes will be up to.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Normalizing the death of a candidate.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/media-outlet-criticized-trying-normalize-death-trump

In an article published Saturday, the outlet, also known as Insider, listed several different scenarios that would occur if the former president passed away before the GOP primary, during the primary, or between the primary and the general election. Former President Trump, 77, is by far the leading GOP presidential candidate, besting the No. 2 and No. 3 candidates by more than 45 percentage points, respectively.

Insider also recently ran an article with the title, "What happens if a sitting president dies while running for reelection," including a photo of President Joe Biden. However, unlike the Trump article, Insider did not specifically make reference to President Biden in the headline. And unlike the Trump article, Insider used President Biden's last name sparingly throughout the article, although it did mention that President Biden turned 81 several days ago.

Several recent polls show that more Americans view President Biden as being too old to serve another term effectively. Fewer Americans believe President Trump is too old to serve.

A Monmouth University poll published last month found 76 percent of voters believe the president is too old, compared to 48 percent who said the same thing about President Trump.

In another poll from The Associated Press-NORC published in August, some 77 percent said President Biden is too old to serve another four years in office. In contrast, around half of American adults said the same about President Trump.

[Don't look at me!]

Deadpool

[Super Scary]

It's sort of like how we saw people putting out articles about how impeachment works right as Donald was elected in 2016.

[A Thinking Mind]

A whole bunch of historians and legal scholars became experts on Section III of the 14th Amendment on January 7, 2021.

[JesseAz]

Yet all missed how it didn't include the president in its list.

[A Thinking Mind]

They're such experts than they know that it was definitely meant to include him, obviously, and they just chose not to list him. Because they're experts and they know this is how it was supposed to work.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Several recent polls show that more Americans view President Biden as being too old to serve another term effectively. Fewer Americans believe President Trump is too old to serve.

Yeah, the "Biden's too old to run" is the "Jones Act" of political talking points.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Interesting...

https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/article_78161dd2-8584-11ee-9a79-23f9b056f57a.html

Democratic voters support President Joe Biden far more than any of the declared candidates seeking the nomination and a group of hypothetical candidates from across the country except for one: Michelle Obama.

The Center Square Voters' Voice Poll, conducted in conjunction with Noble Predictive Insights, found that Biden would win the Democratic primary over a wide swath of hypothetical Democratic challengers.

Registered Democratic voters would pick Biden (74%) over Marianne Williamson (9%). They'd also opt for Biden (58%) over U.S. Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg (25%). And Biden (57%) would beat Vermont independent Sen. Bernie Sanders (29%).

Biden (53%) has the upper hand on California Gov. Gavin Newsom (27%). The incumbent (60%) triumphs over U.S. Sen. Elizabeth Warren (25%). Vice President Kamala Harris (24%) wouldn't beat Biden (62%) either. Former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton (32%) comes closer than other Democrats, but comes up short against Biden (54%).

Biden (63%) bests U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (21%). The president (64%) also comes out on top over Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker (12%).

Former First Lady of the United States Michelle Obama is a different story. Obama (45%) would narrowly win over Biden (43%).

[Idaho-Bob]

All the boxes are checked:

POC
Trans woman
Hates America, specifically white Americans
Muslim last name

[I, Woodchipper]

also: moron

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I said it before, and I'll say it again: If the presidential election came down to Joe Biden and Michelle Obama, and I HAD to vote for one, I would pull the lever for Michelle Obama so hard it would break off.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Is that a mail in lever?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I would join the DNC and take their PhD course in Ballot harvesting for Michelle Obama over Joe Biden.

[damikesc]

A quarter of Dems would vote for Buttegieg?

Is being gay really more important than being remotely competent at anything?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Yes, it's more important to virtue signal than actually be competent.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Was that from Ronnie's Good Morning Vietnam speech?

[R Mac]

“Mr. Trump, tear down that wall!”

[a.heroic.dose]

Calling October 7 a pogrom implies that the Israeli government was aware the violence was going to occur and just let it, or that Israeli authorities themselves participated. Word choice matters.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Huh?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

I think it's a Misek 2.0 troll.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland]

Every knows the darkie students can't learn. They are running out the clock till they can stand and deliver to more useful people. Evenston figured this oit

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

If relenting on pandemic lockdowns and other social controls (my favorite is bans on evictions of renters who decided not to pay) leads to waves of (normal) illnesses, then the answer is clear and government must use (expanded) power: MOAR LOCKDOWNS NOW!

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

"What do these words mean?"

That Biden is a senile octogenarian but still pushes DNC narratives.

[A Thinking Mind]

He's clearly reading from a teleprompter or a verbatim written speech, since he can't figure out where to put the pause or the emphasis. He doesn't know what he's saying, just that he's supposed to say it.

[Longtobefree]

Holograms have come a long way - - - - - - - - -

[InsaneTrollLogic]

A grave threat to the Republic, and it doesn't come from California (long read).

https://www.chicagocontrarian.com/blog/illinois-grave-threat-american-republic

In a courtroom far enough away from Chicago to be somewhat legitimate, two courageous attorneys presented a legal theory questioning whether the government of the State of Illinois continues to function under the authority of the United States Constitution.

In a motion on behalf of Kato, McCarthy and Valentini posed the pointed question of whether Illinois abandoned a constitutional government framework with the creation of a little-known state agency, the Illinois Torture Inquiry and Relief Commission (TIRC), which granted the authority of unelected commissioners the right to overturn criminal convictions in Chicago.

Will County Judge David Carlson declined to declare TIRC constitutional or not. That, Carlson announced, may be debated in other judicial venues. It could conceivably end up before the U.S. Supreme Court, but the mere fact TIRC was created in 2009 and is only recently being challenged in courts reveals clearly that both Chicago and Illinois have become renegade legal and political outposts in the larger federal landscape. Here’s what Carlson said:

“The act itself skirts very closely to the edge of constitutionality…It also calls into question whether or not the TIRC statute in and of itself impugns the integrity of the judicial system of the third branch of government.”

Since its creation, a collection of TIRC commissioners, many of whom are prominent members of the anti-police movement with deep roots in Chicago, have overturned one murder conviction after another even though the offenders have exhausted all their appeals and post-conviction hearings.

Meeting regularly in obscure locations, the members of TIRC — handpicked by the state’s notoriously corrupt governors — have been granted the authority to upend the entire process by which criminals are investigated, tried, convicted, and imprisoned under the judicial process enshrined in the Constitution.

TIRC also paves the way for bankrupting the city and state by enriching the anti-police movement through subsequent civil actions against accused officers. Toss into this mix an inept prosecutor, Kim Foxx, who has declared her office an advocate of the exoneration movement from the moment she was sworn in, and you have a legal and political system wholly overtaken in a bloodless coup.

In a recent excerpt from a book in the The Federalist entitled The Secret To Marxism’s Success? Slowly Infiltrating Existing Structures, U.S. Senator Ted Cruz describes the tactics adopted by an Italian communist, Antonio Gramsci:

"According to Gramsci, the only way to truly change society was not by violent revolution, but by infiltrating the institutions that make Western society unique. If Marxists could get inside the universities, for instance, where knowledge is effectively “made,” or get jobs at publishing houses, which were the main avenues through which ideas were distributed at the time, they might be able to change the ways people thought in subtle ways, rather than having to resort to the kind of outward revolution that Karl Marx had planned on."

Yes, Ted. It’s called Chicago.

[A Thinking Mind]

In principle, I have no problem with a method for streamlining an appeals process when provided with good cause. If there's evidence an innocent man has been convicted, or even if a guilty person was convicted on shoddy, flawed evidence, it needs to be easier to get the factual errors in front of an appellate judge. Appeals courts almost exclusively focus on whether the law was correctly applied, rather than factual claims, and almost never reverse on claims that false testimony and evidence were presented to a jury.

That said, the standard for overturning a jury verdict still should be extremely high. The power of the jury is one of the most significant powers held by private citizens against the government. It does need to be respected unless the jury was actually manipulated by provably false claims presented in court.

[JesseAz]

The standard is a governors pardon. This is a means to alleviate criticism to an elected official that could receive blowback. And it has been used in a political manner, not a fair and balanced one.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Meeting regularly in obscure locations, the members of TIRC — handpicked by the state’s notoriously corrupt governors — have been granted the authority to upend the entire process by which criminals are investigated, tried, convicted, and imprisoned under the judicial process enshrined in the Constitution.

"Civil Rights Commissions" work the same way--just ask Jack Phillips.

[Medulla Oblongata]

And Wisconsin's Supreme Court, with newly elected Democrats on the bench, is re-hearing the legislature map case already decided last year by the court.

"At stake in a ruling to throw out the current maps would be not just the maps themselves, but the fate of decades of conservative laws in the perennial battleground state, as well.

A decision by the court to order new maps could put every member of the Legislature up for re-election in 2024. Such a ruling could mean that some lawmakers would have to run in new districts, in November special elections, for fresh two-year terms (including state senators, all of whom would only be partially through four-year terms).

[TheReEncogitationer]

While I'm not a supporter of the death penalty and fully support mandatory acceptance of DNA evidence (as well as any evidence) to exonerate the falsely accused, that is a far cry from releasing people who are "Too Mean for the Peoples" onto the public by extra-Constitutional means.

Maybe the TIRC headquarters needs to be moved to the most dangerous district of Chi-Town, so they can experience what the rest of Chicagoans have to live with on the daily...and because the Daileys.

[Mother's Lament]

The global progressives slow-mo Kristalnacht.

The pro-Hamas mob smashed the window of a New York kosher restaurant. Because, you know, terrorizing Jews in America will #FreePalestine.

But MAGA is somehow the real threat.

[R Mac]

That will change if the pro-Palestinian folks don’t vote Dem in the next election.

[A Thinking Mind]

This is why Jewish Voices for Peace have to block traffic on major bridges, according to Jeff. Because they have to defend themselves against accusations that they're in favor of genocide, or something.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Moral cowardice.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/11/27/the-moral-cowardice-of-the-managerial-elites/

Is it just me or does the Irish Taoiseach Leo Varadkar seem to fear his own citizens more than he does the murderous theocrats of Hamas? Compare the comment he made when hundreds of louts rioted on O’Connell Street last week with the weird tweet he put out when Emily Hand, the nine-year-old Irish-Israeli girl, was finally freed from Hamas’s racist clutches. He damned the Dublin looters as a mob ‘filled with hate’, people who ‘love violence’. And Hamas? What did he say about this medieval terror group that violently abducted an Irish girl from her loving family? Well, nothing.

To my mind, Varadkar’s screw-up on the Emily Hand release tells us a larger story about the deracinated state of politics right now. It speaks to the moral cowardice of the managerial elites. To the reluctance, the flat-out unwillingness, of our technocratic establishments to issue any firm moral comment on the events of our era. Unless, of course, the event involves one’s own problematic native population, with their supposedly bovine views and violent ways. This is why Varadkar is far more comfortable with condemning the tracksuit-wearing masses of fiery Dublin than he is with making a full-throated denunciation of the racist Islamists who violated the innocence of an Irish child – because the only ‘morality’ that matters to the new elites is their right to morally distinguish themselves from their own rowdy, ignorant populaces. Outside of such narrow exercises in self-bloating moralism, morality never gets a look-in with the stiff, overeducated, bean-counting class that now wields so much power in the EU and across the post-moral West.

Varadkar is not alone. There has been a notable drive among the West’s managerial elites to downplay the horror of Hamas’s hostage-taking, and by extension its entire October pogrom. Israel holds Palestinian women and children too, these people say, as if there is moral equivalence between Israel’s incarceration of women and minors (not children) whose crimes include serious acts of violence and Hamas’s seizure of babies and toddlers and children whose only crime is that they are Jews. Time and again, our ‘betters’ drag the public gaze from the historic enormity of Hamas’s crime against humanity in order that they might defuse the anger of ordinary people in the West towards the crimes committed by Hamas against Jews, against morality, and against civilisation itself.

So this is where we are at – our rulers fear our anger over Hamas more than they fear Hamas. They dread the emotions of their own people more than the violence of Islamic extremists. They worry more about our ‘Islamophobia’ than their Islamo-extremism. Hence, we have a Taoiseach who issues furious condemnations of rioting Dubliner ‘plebs’ and then holds back from openly condemning Islamic terrorists. The new elites are so estranged from public life that our feelings horrify them more than other people’s violence. I can think of no better reason to clear them out of office and replace them with people who take our views seriously. And, more importantly, who take seriously the experiences of a nine-year-old girl whose childhood innocence and freeborn liberties were stolen by racist filth.

[Mickey Rat]

There is evidence that Varadkar holds his ethnically Irish constituency in contempt as "white" people and pushing the interests of "people of color" as a group over the ethnic group that gives his country its name. He has proposed results oriented discriminatory hiring practices to get more POCs in Irish government and instititutions.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

To my mind, Varadkar’s screw-up on the Emily Hand release tells us a larger story about the deracinated state of politics right now.

I'd argue that today's politics are hardly de-racinated. It's primarily about targeting whites in the interest of promoting non-whites by these elites (with appropriate carve-out exceptions for the white "allies" winding this all up, of course).

Vradakar's openly stated that Ireland, which is 94% white, doesn't have enough non-white representation. London isn't even British anymore, it's literally the exact kind of non-white imported Third World shithole that Soros and his acolytes promote, including child rape rings like Rotterham. Pretty much every nation in Europe that said "refugees welcome" during the mass migration from the Middle East is now dealing with crime waves and gangs that would have been unthinkable 20 years ago.

This is basically the cost of indulging liberal oikophobia and adjoining pretenses about multi-culturalism since the 90s.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Well, he said that the little girl was lost and now found and returned home, as if she’d wandered off the path on a hike and been rescued by search teams.

Leo Varadkar
@LeoVaradkar
This is a day of enormous joy and relief for Emily Hand and her family. An innocent child who was lost has now been found and returned, and we breathe a massive sigh of relief. Our prayers have been answered.

TBH, I had to look it up to see who this clown was, seems to be another leftist saying things to cover for Hamas.

Leo Varadkar is an Irish politician who has served as Taoiseach since December 2022, and previously from 2017 to 2020. He is the first openly gay and ethnic minority leader of Ireland, and the first Taoiseach to be from an ethnic minority in Ireland. He is also the leader of Fine Gael.

[Sevo]

"...If you love what we do here at Reason..."

Problem is, you don't do anything.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

But how libertarian is that!?!

[AT]

They do a lot of drugs. Does that count?

[Mickey Rat]

There is no “Trans Genocide”:

http://www.nationalreview.com/2023/11/there-is-no-trans-genocide/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=featured-content-trending&utm_term=second

“White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre took the occasion to mount the podium for a formal press briefing attended by many national media outlets — during which she declared that the United States “grieves” for the all of 26 transgender Americans killed in 2023. These victims, Jean-Pierre went on to emphasize, were no mere Dead White Males but “disproportionately black women and women of color.”

"Jean-Pierre’s statistics came from the Human Rights Campaign, an influential pro-LGBT lobbying group that organizes Trans Remembrance Day (as part of the broader Transgender Awareness Week) on an annual basis and frequently publishes reports on anti-transgender brutality with titles like “An Epidemic of Violence.”
“The only catch is that no such systemic violence exists. According to Jean-Pierre herself — and, presumably, to an LGBT-rights group with every interest in magnifying the phenomenon — the total number of trans-identified Americans known to have been killed in 2023 is 26. If we round that up to 30 (to account for December) and assume that just 1 percent of the U.S. population is trans (given that, as one very limited survey shows, around 3 percent of young Americans are), we obtain an annual transgender-murder rate of 30 in 3.32 million, or just 0.9 people per 100,000 people. Even if we, alternatively, assume an American trans population of just 1.6 million — to gel with one high-quality but conservative recent estimate — the resulting murder rate would be merely 1.9 per 100,000 people.

To put that in context, the murder rate for blacks in the U.S. is currently 30–33 per 100,000 people. The African-American community is an outlier but not necessarily a remarkable one: In a representative recent year, 4.5 percent of black-male deaths were the results of homicide, versus 2.3 percent for American Indians, 2.2 percent for Hispanics, 2 percent for Hawaiians and other Pacific Islanders . . . and 4.9 percent for all whites under full majority. To say the obvious, all of these groups are currently living far more dangerously than “trans women.””

“This reality, I believe, accounts for a pattern with which we have all become increasingly familiar. First, a horrific claim of bias is made (Jussie Smollett, Covington Catholic High School, Duke University lacrosse, Michael Brown, Jacob Blake, Canadian mass graves, Black Lives Matter, Stop Asian Hate). Next, major social changes are made based on the claim and its implications. Third and finally, the unsupported claim collapses.

When we see social movements like the Trans Day of Remembrance, it is important that we all — well — remember this cycle.”

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Keep in mind that the Human Rights Campaign is part of that whole ESG grift, too. Their "inclusiveness" scores are what help influence whether companies can get access to things like loans or financial investment; Anheuser-Busch got dinged specifically because they didn't double down in support of Dylan Mulvaney.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

It’s also been reported that at least half of the 26 claimed transgenders murdered were involved in the prostitution trade, a population that is far more vulnerable to violence than the general public. There may have been a transexual somewhere murdered because of their chosen identity but actual examples are vanishingly rare.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Did that include Audrey Hale?

[Zeb]

They made exactly the same stupid claim last year, I think. And it was shown in the same way that it means it's safer to be trans than just about any other identity grouping you can come up with. Yet here it is again.

[Sevo]

"...Jessica Winter examines the "ethics of procreation in this burning, drowning world,"..."

Don't do it. lady. The fewer whining watermelons we have, the better.

[Overt]

It is amazing how many adults think that our world is burning down around them and overcrowded. But even more amazing is the children this ultimately corrupts. I talk with youths all the time who think that our world is overcrowded because they have never experienced true wilderness. When I tell them things like we could fit the entire population in an area about the size of Texas, with density similar to Paris- and the entire world would otherwise remain pristine, it is almost incomprehensible to them. The same happens when I talk about the abundance of natural resources, the climate, and even trash. They have been fed these obscene narratives of collapse that are just flat wrong, and now those same kids are becoming adults.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Yeah, they've been absolutely brainwashed by their teachers. I can literally drive not even two hours from where I live and be in the wilderness; that's the whole fucking point of agencies like the Bureau of Land Management and the National Park Service, which hand out backcountry camping and hiking permits every single day.

[Sevo]

That charlatan Ehrlich continues to get ink, in spite of the fact that not a single one of his predictions has proven true. Not a ONE!
Sort of like the watermelons.

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/DrClaytonForre1/status/1729346331049636147?t=IC3YXBv0YGWCJShBOSlljA&s=19

Trump only needed a measly $5 billion to build the Wall but Congress wouldn't give it to him. These people are scum.

[Link]

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Fatass Donnie repeatedly claimed that he would make Mexico pay for his wall.

The bullshit flew out of his pie-hole.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Why do you have a "2" after your handle? Please enlighten the commentariat.

[Mother's Lament]

But they did eventually.

Mexico to pay $1.5 billion for US border security and processing

[chemjeff radical individualist]

How many trannies have you murdered today, ML?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Cite?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You've already confessed to murdering progressives. How many trannies do you want to add to your body count?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

You couldn't identify snark and sarcasm even with the aid of a classic snark-o-meter.

[R Mac]

You already admitted this is a lie, Lying Jeffy.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

How many trannies have you murdered?

[R Mac]

Lol, keep flailing.

[Mother's Lament]

Less than the number of times you've angrily typed "FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA!!!" TODAY.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

How many times have you jacked off to the thought of murdering trans kids?

[R Mac]

Sick fuck projecting.

[Chumby]

Holy shit you have issues.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Oh you're right. Maybe I should have accused ML of supporting Aktion T4, like he accused me of supporting. That's totally normal and without issues, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4

[Chumby]

Maybe you should just stop with the wishful thinking strawmen.

[MK Ultra]

You are especially manic and moronic today. Did someone misgender you at work?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Not allowing trannies to convince kids they're born in the wrong body isn't trans genocide.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You showed ML and the others how to do it, didn't you?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

You really are dense. Show us the evidence for a trans-genocide. Where and how are they being killed, Jeffy?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You should know, you're the one doing it

[R Mac]

Haha, you’re broken.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

You really can't tell the difference between snark and reality, can you?

[Mother's Lament]

Not cutting children's junk off isn't what's killing these kids you disgusting ghoul. It's gaslighting them into thinking they'll somehow feel different if they let you freaks maim their bodies.

You're the closest thing to a monster there is.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I'm not the one murdering them, you freak

[Truthfulness]

You support ruining their lives, unlike Mother's Lament. Go repent.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Who showed you how to stuff your piehole, deathfat?

[Chumby]

Is there a News! article to support your claim? Something from an unbiased media outlet like CNN?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I mean, it's obvious, isn't it? They come here every day and complain about all the trannies.

[Chumby]

Complaining about something such as men being allowed to compete in women’s designated athletics competitions = murdering someone? Murdering plural someones?

No. That is not obvious to me.

[R Mac]

He knows it’s not obvious, which means he’s…

[DesigNate]

Very few complain about trans people as individuals. They complain about the agenda you and other activist push or the ridiculousness of allowing men to compete in women’s sports, but other than maybe Nardz, no one is advocating their murder.

[R Mac]

He’s been told this numerous times. He’s lying on purpose here.

[Zeb]

What the fuck is wrong with you?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

What is wrong with me?

Maybe these assholes around here should knock it off with their constant casual abuse.

I am fucking tired of being called a Nazi and a liar and a pedophile every single fucking day by this bunch of losers like ITC and R Mac and ML and Jesse and their pals. It has gone on way too long. They deserve a dose of their own medicine.

I'm not a Nazi, I'm not a pedophile, and I'm not a liar. But if they are going to treat me like garbage, I don't see why they ought to be entitled to being treated any better than they treat me. Do you?

[R Mac]

I’m so sick of being called a liar I’m going to respond to several comments in a row with a blatant and obvious lie! That’ll learn ‘em!

[chemjeff radical individualist]

There you go, trying to provoke me again. You claimed not to do that. Liar.

[R Mac]

I’m mocking you, not provoking you. I’d prefer it cause you to take your statist, UN defending ass and fuck off.

But please, if you’re here, why don’t we discuss the possible appropriate guidelines from the UN for governments to address people’s speech.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I addressed your question above, honestly and fully.

IF you reply to it, I fully expect you to be a complete asshole about it, twisting my argument and using my honesty as a weapon against me, and then baselessly calling me a liar. But not actually addressing the substance of anything that I wrote. Because that's how you roll, asshole.

I would prefer it if you would fuck completely off and go back to the depths of whatever misanthropic pit you crawled out of.

[R Mac]

HONK HONK!

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You didn't disappoint, asshole.

[Truthfulness]

@jeffy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l60MnDJklnM

[Sevo]

turd, the TDS-addled ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[Sevo]

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Biden proved Trump wrong by making America pay for it!

[MWAocdoc]

"Zero-COVID policy was not only a disaster for civil liberties but also, in the long run, a disaster for many people's health."

This is what the people can expect when scientists are put into official government positions to advise on official policy and implement government regulations that government should have absolutely nothing to do with in the first place! It will happen EVERY TIME that scientists are taken out of the realm of science and given some authority. Fauci and - god help us - Vivek Murthy almost certainly know that mass lock-downs can do nothing whatever to mitigate contagious viral epidemics. Between epidemics the overwhelming consensus among virologists and epidemiologists was to "let it take its course." Then when the first political panic set in, they were pressured to change their official recommendations to suit the politicians. Count on it - EVERY TIME!

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Influential Koch network backs Nikki Haley in GOP presidential primary
.
The influential network associated with billionaire Charles Koch will throw its money and influence behind former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley in the Republican presidential primary, the group announced Tuesday.
.
The decision could dramatically reshape the Republican field – roughly seven weeks before the Iowa caucuses – as Americans for Prosperity Action deploys its vast resources and standing army of conservative activists on behalf of the former South Carolina governor.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/28/politics/koch-network-nikki-haley/index.html

[Chumby]

Why is there a 2 after your name?

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Why do you suck cock in airport mens rooms?

[Chumby]

Sorry, I’m not an Act Blue agent. You have me confused with one of those Soros types.

Why do you have a 2 after your name?

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

You're a Denny Hastert conservative. Just admit it.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Is that something different than a Bill Clinton Democrat?
BTW, why do you have a “2” after your handle?

[Mother's Lament]

Is that something different than a Bill Clinton Democrat?

Pluggo's more of a Jeffrey Epstein and Gary Condit Democrat, but he also has shades of David Wu and Anthony Weiner.

[Chumby]

Pluggo may see himself more of a progressive independent like Elliot Cutler. Pluggo’s favorite salad dressing? Neverland ranch.

[Chumby]

Hastert, like all practicing pedophiles, should have faced the possibility of capital punishment. Don’t you agree? Oh, why is there a 2 after your name?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Would that make you an Alden Bunag liberal?

[Sevo]

turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Is that something you do, Pluggo? BTW, why is there a "2" after your handle?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

When you walked into the stall, how did you know Chumby was in the next one as you slipped your cock through the glory hole?

[Sevo]

turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Of course Charles Koch would. Haley doesn't care about the border or having all immigrants properly documented. This should also tell everyone that Nikki Haley is a part of the establishment and swamp.

The influential network associated with billionaire Charles Koch will throw its money and influence behind former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley in the Republican presidential primary, the group announced Tuesday.

It should also tell you that the usual suspects here will be doing hit pieces on the other candidates, be they Trump, DeSantis, etc.

During his White House tenure, Trump, often sparred with Koch officials, who sharply criticized his administration’s trade and hardline immigration policies.

It also shows everyone here that Shrike aka Pluggo is a swamp creature.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

It will be interesting to see how Liz navigates this. Whatever else she may be, Haley is a hard core neocon with absolutely no chance of winning the nomination, MAGA support or the general election.

[damikesc]

Haley does seem awfully libertarian.

i.e, she's an awful libertarian.

And why the "2"?

[Sevo]

turd lies. That's not a surprise to anyone who reads his constant stream of bullshit.
But it's becoming obvious that as Misek is too stupid to understand the concepts of "evidence" or "relevance", the concept of "honesty" is simply beyond turd's ken.

[(Impeach Robert L. Peters) Weigel's Cock Ring]

Take a good long hard look at what's going on in the world around you, asshole.

Almost everywhere that we look, from this comment section, to Charleston, to Argentina, to Holland and beyond, more and more people everywhere are deciding that they've just about had enough of you shitheads.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

This school district in Evanston, Illinois, just straight-up brought back racial segregation, under the guise of social justice. Disturbing.

Ugh, Liz with all her Kultur war reporting. Can't we just agree to disagree and let it go?

[TheReEncogitationer]

Thing is, we've let it go and let it go until the whole nation has become this "let go."

This Balkanization of America needs to stop--where have I heard this before?--"with all speed."

[JFree]

War on pause.

Fortunately for everyone here the ethnic cleansing of 1+ million is not on pause. Because of course, that has now happened already. There is still some humanitarian work to be done to render the rest of North Gaza permanently uninhabitable. But of course that’s why this is merely a humanitarian pause in a highly targeted humanitarian war. All you ‘libertarian’ commenters and Reason writers will be pleased to know that you and your children and their children are paying for it all. With no questions allowed.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

All you ‘libertarian’ commenters and Reason writers will be pleased to know that you and your children and their children are paying for it all. With no questions allowed.

It's what we reluctantly voted for.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

All of that peace and prosperity was just too terrifying.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Yeah, we paid for it through all the "humanitarian" and U.N. aid that went to Hamas, who bears the ultimate responsibility for this horror against both Jews and Arabs. Whatever the cease-fire declared, Hamas still has it coming.

[Sevo]

"...All you ‘libertarian’ commenters and Reason writers will be pleased to know that you and your children and their children are paying for it all. With no questions allowed."

Antisemite pile of dogshit heard from.
Fuck off and die, asshole. Make the world a better place.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Did that number come from Bagdhad Bob?

I mean, Al Jazeera, of all outlets, says "The latest death toll stands at 15,083 Palestinians with at least 1,200 people killed in Israel since October 7."

[Truthfulness]

And even then, those numbers are from the Gaza Health Ministry, whose numbers are suspicious.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Futurism caught Sports Illustrated publishing AI stories — with fake author profile pages and all. We went to them with it, and they wiped...all of it.

Why is this a problem... or more accurately, why do I care?

[mad.casual]

LOL.

Maybe Liz would prefer to hear how your Fantasy Football team is doing instead?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

It re-re-occurred to me that the people being hurt by this are *checks notes* the writers at Sports Illustrated… like… what do they say? Are they worried about this trend? I mean, can’t a media scribbler learn to code if a machine can do his job more effectively?

Oh, shit, they DID have something to say about it!

The Sports Illustrated Union (SI Union) said it’s “horrified” by a report that the iconic magazine’s website and parent company The Arena Group have been allegedly publishing articles created by artificial intelligence (AI)-generated writers, Futurism reported.

The article published Monday by Futurism, a science and technology news website, accuses Sports Illustrated and its publisher, The Arena Group, of using AI to generate content and attributing it to fake authors, including “Drew Ortiz,” a product reviewer who has “spent much of his life outdoors,” and “Sora Tanaka,” who is “a fitness guru, and loves to try different foods and drinks.”

In responding to the Futurism report, the union representing the Sports Illustrated newsroom blasted the alleged use of AI-created content as “disrespectful” to the publication’s readers.

In a statement by the “Humans of the SI Union” posted on X, formerly Twitter, the union demands “answers and transparency” from The Arena Group, which it says operates more than 265 brands, including Sports Illustrated, TheStreet, Parade, Men’s Journal and HubPages.

“We, the workers of the SI Union, are horrified by a story on the site Futurism, reporting that Sports Illustrated’s parent company, The Arena Group, has published Al-generated content under SI’s brand with fabricated bylines and writer profiles,” SI Union said in the post. “If true, these practices violate everything we believe in about journalism. We deplore being associated with something so disrespectful to our readers. We demand answers and transparency from Arena Group management about what exactly has been published under the Sl name. We demand the company commit to adhering to basic journalistic standards, including not publishing computer-written stories by fake people.”

The SI Union said what has been described in the Futurism report “does not represent the hardworking journalists who make up the Sl Union.”

I guess I’m just wearing my ponytail libertarian hat today. But yeah… if your job can be replaced by a machine, learn to do something else.

[mad.casual]

As I indicate above, I don’t have a real problem with AI-generated stories as much as I have a problem with the invented fake personalities.

It’s all fun and games until a fake journalist in an AI generated story accuses some up-and-coming sports God of rape… again… again.

Edit: Imagine the inhumanity if respectable human reporters always strove to generate the bona fide truth and were getting out-competed by AI. Instead, we get the reality where HAL-9000 is the only one objectively trying to complete the mission.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

It's only a matter of time until an AI writer wins the Pulitzer Prize. And it will be be based on opposition research involving Trump.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Or ChatGPT "identifies as a woman" and everyone gets pissed off... oh... wait.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Speaking of fake profiles of women who like long walks on the beach and fireside cuddling...

Fake AI-generated woman on tech conference agenda leads Microsoft and Amazon execs to drop out

NEW YORK (AP) — Tech executives at Microsoft and Amazon have dropped out of an upcoming software conference after at least one of the women on the agenda turned out to be fake.

DevTernity organizer Eduards Sizovs admitted on social media that one of the featured speakers was an “auto-generated” woman with a fake title. He was responding to allegations about a number of suspicious profiles on his conference websites that appeared to be generated by artificial intelligence.

But he denied that the fake profile was intended to mask the “worse-than-expected level of diversity of speakers” in this year’s lineup and refused to apologize in a series of posts on X, formerly Twitter. He didn’t respond to emailed requests for comment Tuesday.

The revelation led other speakers to quickly drop out of the virtual conference that was supposed to start on Dec. 7.

“I found out that I was the only woman on the agenda, and some of the others advertised may not be real,” said Amazon Web Services executive Kristine Howard in a post on LinkedIn.

NOW Silicon Valley is worried about whether women are "real" or not.

[mad.casual]

Artificial Gender really does sound like a more apt or technically correct description of the technology.

Tech Acolyte: Pray, Mx. Babbage, if you put into the machine all the answers including wrong ones, will the right answers come out?
Artificial Babbage: No, but it will produce answers you don't need prodigiously and ignore any and all consequences.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Jessica Winter examines the "ethics of procreation in this burning, drowning world," for The New Yorker in what is a representative installment of the depressed-environmentalist genre.

Maybe Liz Wolf can interview Michael Shellenberger who refers to modern environmentalism as a narcissistic, depression-death cult.