Are Republicans Finally Getting Serious About Social Security?
This week's debate was the first signal that the party's next presidential nominee might actually understand the entitlement crisis.

Before this week's Republican presidential debate had even ended, President Joe Biden's reelection campaign had already jumped in to remind everyone that Biden has no plan for Social Security other than letting it plunge into insolvency.
Republicans on the debate stage "explicitly talked about" possible cuts to Social Security, Biden campaign spokesman Seth Schuster wrote in a statement to the media. "If Trump returns to office, the benefits millions of America's seniors rely on—and spent their careers contributing to—will once again be on the chopping block."
This has become a familiar tactic for Biden, one that he deployed most famously at this year's State of the Union address: Attack Republicans for supposedly trying to cut Social Security in order to deflect attention away from the fact that Social Security will cut itself in about a decade if nothing is done. When the old-age entitlement program hits insolvency in the early 2030s, it will be able to pay out only as much money as it collects each year. That will translate into an across-the-board cut of 23 percent for all beneficiaries, according to the latest projections from the trustees who run the program.
Pointing the finger at Donald Trump put Biden an extra degree removed from reality: The former president has opposed making changes to Social Security whenever the topic has come up. Indeed, Trump's campaign is running ads attacking his 2024 primary challengers on this issue. On Social Security, Biden and Trump are experiencing a shared delusion, a political folie à deux.
In contrast, a few of the Republican candidates on the debate stage Wednesday night offered at least a glimpse of reality. Former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley and former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie even went so far as to offer a few actual policy ideas that would help solve the looming problem.
"Any candidate that tells you that they're not going to take on entitlements is not being serious," Haley said, before pointing the finger at Biden, Trump, and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, who has also rejected serious changes to the Social Security system.
"We have to deal with this problem," Christie said, before calling for raising the retirement age for younger workers and means-testing benefits, which would reduce or eliminate payments to wealthier retirees.
As Christie pointed out, correctly, the math for Social Security is not all that complicated: If policymakers don't want the program to go insolvent, the options are essentially to reduce benefits (by changing eligibility requirements such as the retirement age or reducing how much is distributed) or to raise payroll taxes to close the funding gap. And he was clear about which side he would favor: "We are already overtaxed in this country, and we should not raise those taxes."
Christie went on to make a strong argument for reevaluating the purpose of Social Security, which he said should be viewed like the food stamp program: a safety net that everyone helps fund but doesn't necessarily benefit from. "Social Security…was established as a safety net program to make sure that no one would grow old in this country in poverty," he said. "That's what we got to get back to. Rich people should not be collecting Social Security."
The former governor is right that means-testing benefits is absolutely fairer than raising payroll taxes to keep Social Security solvent—a move that would accelerate the program's transfer of wealth from relatively poorer current workers to relatively richer retirees. You wouldn't guess it from much of the rhetoric around Social Security, but no one is actually legally entitled to the program's benefits. A national discussion that treats Social Security more like the open-ended old-age welfare program that it is would be a productive shift.
That being said, simply raising the retirement age and means-testing benefits might not be enough to keep Social Security solvent—depending on the specifics of the changes. And, more importantly, any changes to the structure of Social Security should allow workers to opt out of the program entirely.
Haley agreed in principle with Christie—she put raising the retirement age and means-testing on the table—but she seemed less aggressive about phasing in the changes. "What we need to do is keep our promises those that have been promised should keep it short for like my kids in their 20s you go when you say we're going to change the rules you change the retirement age for them."
That's a fine answer, but if Haley wants to head off a problem that will hit in the next 10 years, she will have to make changes that will affect people older than their 20s. That's why Social Security's long-term instability should have been addressed in the 2000s or the 2010s, when there would have been a longer timeframe for phasing in changes.
And like Christie, Haley didn't say anything about letting younger workers escape the program entirely.
Businessman Vivek Ramaswamy chimed in to point out that a solution must come soon to prevent benefit cuts to current retirees. But he offered nothing in the way of a substantial plan for entitlements other than a vague promise to reduce future government spending.
That's certainly welcome, but Social Security dwarfs almost every other aspect of federal spending—by 2033, it will cost as much as the entire discretionary portion of the budget, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Cutting wasteful domestic spending and reducing the cost of the military are important, but those cuts (even if achieved) are unlikely to solve the entitlement crisis.
Finally, DeSantis and Sen. Tim Scott (R–S.C.) argued against making any changes.
"I will protect your Social Security," said Scott. "If we're going to actually tame this tiger, the way you do it is not by picking on seniors who have paid into a program [and] that deserve their money coming back out to them."
That's a fundamental misunderstanding of how Social Security works. Retirees are not receiving "their money" taken out of their paychecks over their careers. They are receiving transfer payments from current workers—and the average retiree gets more in benefits than what the retiree paid into the system in the first place. By continuing to spread those misconceptions about Social Security, Scott is not helping anything.
DeSantis, meanwhile, said he would not reduce benefits for seniors and would not consider raising the retirement age, citing the fact that average life expectancy in the United States has dipped in recent years. He promised to cut spending and get the economy growing at a 3 percent annual rate—both would be nice, of course, but neither will effectively solve Social Security's structural problems.
Wednesday's debate isn't proof that the Republican Party will welcome a serious discussion of entitlements—or that voters will reward candidates who try to offer substantial ideas on that front. But it was a good starting point, and the disagreement among the five GOP candidates on stage should signal to reporters and future debate moderators that there's room for more questions on this point.
And any candidates who won't take part in that discussion—especially Biden and Trump—will only continue to underline their unseriousness.
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Grandma will need to take a big pay cut soon.
Are you ready to learn the difference between a walker and a war club?
I can outrun some geriatric Matlock whether they have a walker or a Lil Rascal mobility scooter.
What is this 'run' you speak of?
I vaguely remember talk of a thing like that decades ago, but now we rely on stealth and ambush.
Your arthritic joints will reveal your presence long before you can realize your intentions.
They never creak when I am still - - - - - - - - - - - -
*sigh*
I mean, absolutely true. I turn 47 in about 2 weeks. Had rheumatoid arthritis since I was a child.
So, clearly, I wouldn't move anything other than my trigger finger.
But more seriously, I'm 46, and I've already accepted that my "retirement plan" is my .45 Win Mag.
I will work until I can't, and if I'm lucky I'll have a month or two before I need to gap myself. So that I can have paid for the retirements of my parents and grandparents generations, who bought everything they owned when things were cheap.
Yay!
I like getting frisky with the wife after a few cocktails, and then it’s like I’m recovering from a car crash for the next 3 days. Getting old fucking blows. Who invented this shit?
Cocoon 3 - The Revolt
The collapse of the empire would be karmic justice if it occurred during peak boomer retirement.
*One*, sure. But they hunt in packs.
There is strength in numbers.
Even snowflakes can be dangerous in large groups.
Ask the Donner party.
Hilarious. There was a "Motivational" poster on the wall at work in some conference room that had a similar theme, with a picture of a tree covered in snow and looking pretty.
After the meeting, I grabbed a friend and said "This poster takes on a whole new meaning if you replace the picture with one of an avalanche."
Best to avoid areas with early bird specials and you’ll be alright.
Nope. Tax hikes and inflation.
They will never cut benefits, they will means test and possibly raise retirement age.
Former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley and former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie even went so far as to offer a few actual policy ideas that would help solve the looming problem.
I guess they're concerned entitlement spending might encroach on spending on war. And, no, I'm not all that keen on means testing. It wasn't created as and was never sold as a "safety net". It was a Ponzi scheme where people were promised a return of their own money. That's why they have fictional "accounts". Now you want to turn around and have me keep paying and get nothing for it? Get bent. Just drop the whole scheme or shut the hell up.
Means-test all government employee retirement benefits, and remit the excess to help fund Social Security. All that money was stolen from the taxpayers anyway. They should be lucky to get any of it.
That's already being done. Look up the Windfall Elimination Provision.
Agree. Federal employees on the Civil Service Retirement System who also collect social security benefits earned from a post-retirement career generally have their SS benefits cut by 50%. This was implemented by Reagan in 1984.
It's not just federal employees; it's all government employees. And it doesn't matter if the Social Security income was pre- or post-government employment.
The former governor is right that means-testing benefits is absolutely fairer than raising payroll taxes to keep Social Security solvent
Reason us literally saying taking from the many to give to the few is more fair.
What does "solvent" have to do with anything? The government prints money for everything else. Why should SS be any different?
Dubya's plan was a big failure in 2005 - add a new section to SS for "private" accounts then divert 1/3 of the employee FICA into that account and let Wall St manage it. It would have made both parts of SS far worse off.
Is there anything Dubya didn't fuck up?
Um, 1/3? You mean up to 4%. Much different number. It was also completely voluntary.
I always laugh at people who mock those who try to solve a problem only for the attempted solution to be politically destroyed rather than destroyed based on substantive and empirical reasons.
With your type of comment, it's no wonder things like SS don't get fixed, because no one will allow it politically.
You're wrong. It wasn't 4%. It was 4/12 of the combined FICA tax.
4% would have been insignificant.
Never doubt the Buttplug. I'm an expert on the Bushpig disasters.
Please provide a detailed explanation for the 2 at the end of your handle.
Fuck you QAnon creeps. That's my explanation.
How about a real explanation instead?
Do QAnon creeps post kiddie porn links at Reason like you did?
You might have. I wouldn't know.
I know you get upset when someone points out how shitty Republicans are.
Every problem we have as a country Republicans have made worse.
Democrats suck too but they don't dig holes as deep as the GOP does.
You’re a retarded Marxist pedophile who should hav been tortured to death a very long time ago. You worship Soros, one of the most malignant creatures to walk the earth in the last century.
I disagree. Torture demeans the torturer. SPB2 should have simply been shot in the back of the head and dumped in a ditch like the garbage that he is.
Don't get emotionally involved. Just take out the trash.
Still waiting for you to explain the 2...
"Democrats suck too but they don’t dig holes as deep as the GOP does."
New Deal?
"You might have. I wouldn’t know."
Fraid not, the only person so far to post child porn here is you.
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
So, you CHOSE "2" as your ORIGINAL name?
Really?
turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
Sorry, yes, it was 1/3 of the FICA tax or 4% of earnings up to $1,000. All voluntary.
The horror!!! How dare people save money privately!
How dare people save money privately!
You can do that now without some sorry-ass government program that is limited to five approved government run index funds.
Dubya's plan was pure trash and it died from it's own shittiness.
"You can do that now without some sorry-ass government program that is limited to five approved government run index funds." But I can't with the money the government takes from me. That's the whole point.
I agree that it wasn't the greatest plan, but it was a plan that still would have been better than what we have now and it included a private aspect to it which was a bonus concept. But at the end it died because of people like you who were scared that government wasn't getting the money versus the private person. And it also died because no chance Democrats were going to allow a Republican a win on entitlement reform concepts.
So, in the end, politics killed it. Just like politics will kill any future attempts to fix the problems. And people like you play right into that, which is probably the biggest irony.
The more government tries to fix programs the worse they get.
Imagine if you had stacked your Government managed SS fund in the "safe" investment back in 2005 - Mortgage Backed Securities.
By diverting 1/3 of FICA the general fund would have been on the hook for trillions to replace it.
A moron could not have designed a worse program. But Dubya did.
No, I get it, government doesn't run the show very well. Thus, why I like the idea of some level of privatization. And we are already on the hook for trillions to replace SS. That's kind of part of the problem.
What we have now is literally a worse program because it will be gone soon. That's why I find your bizarre and a little unhinged righteous hatred for Bush's plan a bit comical. You're screaming about how awful it was, not caring that what we have now is worse, and laughing at him for even trying to fix the issue. It's a weird moral standing that you're taking.
So you support Obamacare then. It has a private marketplace that private insurers bid on and private practitioners supply services to patients.
Taking a government program that's failing and moving it towards privatization in order to save it and get more control out of the hands of government is what I am supporting.
You're example fails as the choice there is no government involvement or government involvement that incorporates privatization. I would choose no government involvement to start.
LOL '....Of the 15.7 million people who enrolled in private coverage through the exchanges as of early 2023, 91% were receiving premium subsidies...' No fool would ever define a private marketplace when 91% of it's customers are getting welfare to pay for the product.
enrolled in private coverage
According to the Squirrel this makes Obamacare acceptable.
That’s not even remotely what I said.
Is this what you do, when someone corners you with an argument, you just make up a straw man position to flippantly address in order to avoid the actual position?
"Is this what you do, when someone corners you with an argument, you just make up a straw man position to flippantly address in order to avoid the actual position?"
Yes.
Just get rid of people like Shreek. It’s not like Marxist shave a right to exist anyway. And he IS a pedophilic, as many of their kind are.
Just scrape them off……… into our country’s plentiful landfills.
I think they'd make useful fertilizer. Grind them up and plow them under. Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Ohio, Idaho... I'd eat Marxist Potato Fries.
Lol, you didn't even understand what you were trying to shit on.
You can "do that now" only if you have any money left over after the government's taken it's 12% off the top (in addition to all the other taxes they withhold). For a lot of folks, especially the folks Social Security is actually supposed to help, that's impossible.
Giving people an ownership interest and the opportunity to invest at market rates (rather than the government's depressed rates) would have been a win for everyone. It wasn't a perfect plan but it was a damn sight better than the status quo. But then irrational fearmongers like you killed it.
Your faith in Big Government programs is noted. I'm sure you support Donnie too.
How can you even make this argument with a straight face? Rossami is literally talking about the benefits of moving money away from government and you are calling it Big Government?
Because he worships Soros and his ilk. He will think and say whatever they tell him to.
He also claimed with a straight face that 0bama ended combat in Iraq in 2011.
Dubya's plan didn't move anything from the government.
It just changed your benefits from a fixed rate to a government run index fund that they would have the right to claw back upon retirement.
Kind of dodged the issue there. But, it’s clear that’s becoming your intent. You’re almost clinical level of hatred for Bush is causing you to have to make amorphous and inconsistent arguments. You claim government is bad, but all your positions are in support of more government. I can’t understand this inherent contradiction. Please explain.
You claim government is bad, but all your positions are in support of more government.
You’re the one supporting the new Bush Social Security Plus plan.
I oppose all new plans – like I said government only makes things worse.
Bush NCLB federal education plan? Worse. Bush Medicare Prescription Welfare Plan? Worse. Bush Mortgage Downpayment Welfare? Worse.
Bush sucked dude. No one else has come close to his level of suckage.
But I specifically said I supported the concept of it and the desire to fix the problem. I explained it still wasn’t great, but the idea was heading in the right direction. It’s hard to discuss things with you when you constantly misrepresent my positions.
And I get it, you hate Bush. Fine, I didn’t like the guy either, but you need to move on from your clinical issues with the him.
So, your position is you hate government, therefore you want no plans to fix anything and just leave it to the government? Bizarre.
Your inherent inconsistency in your positions, your constant need to incorrectly reframe my positions, and your ubiquitous need to bring up Bush make me realize you’re an emotional poster and take positions based on feelings rather than rationality and facts.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit.
turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
What are you talking about?
If the portion of Social Security has been put in stock market index funds we will be talking about raising the amount the retirees get, not lowering it
And yet the SS "crisis" would be in much better shape if the Bush private accounts had passed. Retirees would have more money, and the day of reckoning would be much further out. Math is hard, but it isn't that hard.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
>>Biden campaign spokesman Seth Schuster wrote in a statement to the media. "If Trump returns to office ...
B campaign knows they were watching the JV on NBC.
Yeah. It is kind of funny to watch them fighting it out to not be the VP pick when Trump gets the nomination.
I am OK with receiving part of my promised benefits in non-cash assets. Some national park acreage or a Bradley would be nice.
Can you afford the ATF fees and tax stamps that would go with the Bradley?
The ATF is unconstitutional anyway, but yes, I could.
I would just incorporate as a city and claim we need it for fighting the War on Drugs.
Well, Biden did say we'll need nukes and F-15s to defend against tyranny....
I want the Iron Man armor. Some version of it must have been invented by now.
What do you think that UAP footage the Navy pilots captured was?
Elon Musk testing his Mark III armor.
They've been testing exoskeletons suits for several decades. It is getting to the point where body armor is seriously getting to heavy and impractical for combat. But the main focus of exoskeletons have been to reduce stress when respectively moving heavy objects, so more likely a rear echelon use as opposed to combat. The biggest hurdle for use in combat would be battery life. Rear echelon use can either have external power hookup or extra battery storage more readily available.
Additionally, the idea of body armor, until fairly recently, was always to reduce damage from lower velocity objects, such as shrapnel. Only recently has it changed to diminishing damage from high velocity projectiles. This requires a lot heavier ceramic plates. But the heavier the kit, the slower you move, eventually it becomes so heavy and cumbersome that it actually becomes a detriment in combat. A lot of troops already ground their plates, as it is.
The only people serious about social security are those of us getting checks from it.
All talk, no action; in this case, truly both sides.
(special thanks to my son for having a job that feed me each month)
OK, so him and two of his friends.
This week's debate was the first signal that the party's next presidential nominee might actually understand the entitlement crisis.
Trump was at the debates?
also only one person on that stage truly wants to defeat Brandon.
You keep using that word: entitlements. Social Security retirement benefits are not an entitlement. We pay in while we work; we get paid after we reach retirement age. Welfare and SSI benefits are entitlements. Nothing needs to be paid in to receive benefits. Until you get the terminology right why should anyone listen to what you have to say?
I'm getting off your lawn.
All good points. Part of the problem is that Republicans want to paint it as entitlements thinking to cast a bad light. The problem with these programs is real. They might be more successful in talking about reform if they started acknowledging the money people have put into the programs.
But when you get more out than you put in, that becomes an entitlement. I think that's more of the problem.
Because you're lying or supremely ignorant of the facts. There are multiple ways to receive money out without ever paying in and even if you do pay in odds are now that you're taking much more out.
For example Obamas massive expansion of disability SSI which is one of the primary drivers of the yearly cost. 5M new people on disability pulling from it under Obama.
Social Security's listed under the government budget is an entitlement expense. That is why it is referred to as an entitlement. Not that the recipients are 'entitled' as the word is used these days. The recipient is literally entitled to receive the benefit if they meet a certain criteria.
They are just repeating the lies the New Dealers used to sell the country on SS.
Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. They take out money put in by today's workers to pay off the people who previously put in money, which is already gone because it was used to pay off yesterday's retirees.
That's pretty much exactly what Bernie Madoff did.
No, Social Security was climbing in bed with the Devil, and now you're mad that he's going to fuck you. You had the chance to vote against that shit, but you didn't, and you're pissed that it was just like every other tax where they lied to you about how you were going to benefit from it.
Get fucked in the ass, just like the rest of us.
Except with SS we get ass-fucked first. Now that my butt is sore and bleeding, I want some of that promised candy.
That's why you have to get the candy before you climb in the van. You're certainly not getting any of it afterwards.
We pay in while we work;
Just like taxes. It was only ever a tax, and a lie attached to the tax to make people not revolt over it, and enough payout to people's grandparents and parents to make it vaguely appear to not be a lie, but it's always been a lie.
There is no candy in the van, just the Devil and his giant spiky cock.
"Entitlement" is exactly the problem.
It wasn't until talking with a "political science" student in the 80's that I ever heard anyone refer to SS (or medicare) as an entitlement. I don't actually know who started calling these socialist programs "entitlements" but I would expect it was some early leftist who understood that words have emotional weight beyond their actual meaning.
SS (and medical coverage) is not a right, and the R's would be smart to drop the word "entitlement" from their lexicon, and start using the word "benefit", and make the occaisional "accidental" slip-up of referring to it as a "benevolence", i.e. charity.
Fine, no elderly person should die in poverty (ie, starving on the street), but once they have gotten to the point of having a private bedroom and three meals each day, I'm done feeling sorry for them and don't think we should be paying for them.
An “entitlement” is any support program that is written into law and is essentially on autopilot - it is ongoing and it’s funding does not have to be voted on each year, unlike programs or agencies funded by “discretionary” spending. Changes to entitlement programs must be voted on by Congress. These programs include SS, SSI, Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans support, federal civil service retirement, military retirement, EBT program, housing supplements, earned income tax credits, Pell Grants, and a whole host of other programs.
I like Chris Christy's idea that we need to reengineer the program.
This country has a program that started almost 90 years ago. Could we start by looking at its goal, to end poverty in old age, and reengineer the program to better accomplish this goal? Raising payroll taxes, raising retirement ages, and means testing are just tweaks. I like to see a major overhaul. I would keep mandatory contributions but individualize the accounts and allow people a measure of flexibility in how those accounts are managed.
Actually, I think the goal was to get old guys out of jobs so young men without jobs could take them. (this was back in the dark ages when jobs involved actual work, as using muscles, and your pension was whatever amount you had in the bank)
According to a wise financial advisor, politicians have feared large number of unemployed young men since the French revolution.
The fact is that there are plenty of jobs that still require muscle and people can only do them for so long. The candidates on the stage all do work that they can continue past normal retirement age, that is not true for many average people.
The other problem is the unwillingness of employers to hire older people, even if they are capable of doing the job. Between the vicissitudes of aging and age discrimination, most workers simply don't have the option of continuing to earn a living into their seventies.
Nonsense.
There are posts here every day telling people how they can make fortunes - - - - - -
I like Chris Christy’s idea that we need to reengineer the program.
That's only okay if, by re-engineering, you mean shut down the offices, lay off the bureaucrats working there, send current recipients a note saying "Sorry, we're out of money." instead of another check, and stop thieving another dime off of the rest of us. The rest of it, the crap Christie and you suggest, amounts to little more than simple transfer payments.
People like social security and so your idea is a non-starter.
I could even see a wind down where in the people who are currently on the system keep getting what they're getting, with no increases, and folks who aren't yet, get a reduced amount, until we've merged down to certain folks getting nothing, but being taken for less, and even further down, not paying in at all, but also definitely getting nothing. Though... having typed that out, the folks who still have to pay in but get nothing are really getting fucked so maybe that won't work. Perhaps paying in needs to be means tested as well.
I don't have a good answer, just... I already know I'm not getting anything, so I'd like to pay less to support the generation that already has houses and shit.
Again, why are presidential candidates being grilled on shit that isn't the president's job?
Social Security funding is Congress business - the executive just, you know . . . *executes*.
Any solution that does not call for it's bankruptcy and restructuring and transfer to the private sector doesn't have a clue how to fix SS or Medicare.
They would be stupid to propose actual reform.
Remember when Paul Ryan proposed modest tweaks and forming a bipartisan commission to study the issue? Literally commercials of him pushing an elderly woman in a wheelchair off a cliff.
A modest proposal...
Means testing always sounds better in principle than it works in practice.
In practice, it means that people who retire with a relatively modest nest egg are forced to slowly burn through their life's savings, including potentially selling their home, until they are left with virtually nothing and forced to rely on the meager benefits provided by the state.
No one likes that, obviously, so we have to fold back in various exceptions - you can keep your house, maybe a certain amount of assets, maybe a certain amount of income on top of that, etc. - and we're left back where we started.
Raising the retirement age similarly runs up against the usual problem, which is that people still age and get sick. If they have good careers, good health care, adequate protections against age discrimination, and jobs that they can still do into their later sixties, then putting off retirement a few years is not a big issue. But if your policies also make it so that fewer people fall into that lovely convergence of factors, you're just significantly exacerbating the problem. You're ironically creating a situation where fewer people will means-test into self-sufficiency, and one where they are more dependent on the state, earlier, at higher cost.
The most obvious and direct solution to the "problem" is to remove the thing that is creating it, which is the cap on income that is subject to FICA taxes. Yes, people are taxed a lot already. But dollars spent now on shoring up a supplemental retirement income program are dollars we don't have to save, to provide the parallel benefit.
Really, what we ought to do, and we ought to have been doing, is socking away some of that money into a SWF that could invest and grow our capital over time. Unfortunately, we keep opting for the dollars now instead of the dollars we could have later.
The details of means testing can be worked out. I don't agree that it would be so complicated as to present an insurmountable obstacle.
Yes it's quite simple really. The scenario given in the OP would not happen. It's the wealthier, the ones that have already fed at the trough that will not get benefits. It's entirely fair.
Yes, the people who saved for their retirement should have to pay for it themselves. Just be glad that we're not insisting that the people who didn't save for their retirement also pay for themselves.
the people who didn’t save for their retirement
Mostly people with no savings are those who COULDN'T save, not those who merely didn't. As Clark Howard is fond of saying, "you don't buy stocks when there's a hole in the roof."
Let me suggest an alternative way to means test SS. We know that wealth correlates with longevity. The wealthier you are the longer you live and the more you draw from SS. As an alternative to determining if you can get SS, use wealth to determine when you get SS. If you make less in your working life have less in accumulated savings you can draw full SS earlier and those with more wealth and less need for SS begin to draw it at a later age.
"The most obvious and direct solution to the “problem” is to remove the thing that is creating it, which is the cap on income that is subject to FICA taxes. Yes, people are taxed a lot already. But dollars spent now on shoring up a supplemental retirement income program are dollars we don’t have to save, to provide the parallel benefit."
Simon is a steaming pile of lefty shit who never saw a tax he didn't like.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
No doubt as serious as they got about repealing the ACA.
Politically you cannot take something/anything away from someone. It does not matter whether they never earned it or deserved it. The opposition party will always say it didn't have to be done. The malcontents will absolutely lose their shit. There is not a solution to this. Look at France with what happened after they raised the retirement age 2 years.
Plenty of times since the early 1980's SOME republicans have wanted to address it but the majority of congress, both sides, put a stop to it as to not lose voters.
Such a retarded thing that is used to manipulate people.
This could have been addressed 40 years ago but nope. Let's wait until extreme measures have to be taken instead.
Using conservative market returns, if the amount contributed to SS was invested in a private account the average taxpayer would receive 4x more in monthly benefits and when they die would leave over $600,000 (instead of ZERO) to their relatives or elsewhere through their estate.
The problem with the Social Security Trust Fund is it was all a lie. The money was never put in a trust and invested. Nor should we expect to be able to trust the government to do so now.
If we gave people the option to divert a portion of what would go to SS to private accounts in exchange for lower SS payouts at retirement AND did means testing for the next few decades we could solve the solvency problem while also improving the income available for retirees who elect for this option.
In addition, there is a HUGE amount of illegal and unethical disbursements from SS, Medicare, MediCal, and other entitlements if cleaned up would allow us to accelerate this transition and beneficial outcomes to retiring citizens.
The problem with that is how to be sure the ones who invested their private accounts with a Nigerian Prince never wind up on the dole.
The answer is to ELIMINATE the dole for everyone. Private charities used to do FAR BETTER at helping those with legitimate need than the government even pretends to do.
Yes, SS simply cannot continue as it's now set up. How to fix it and where to get the BACKBONE to fix it are ongoing issues.
But there's a lot of misconceptions about SS. Aside from the fact that it's a Ponzi scheme (and perhaps BECAUSE it is), SS is a FANTASTIC deal for low income wage earners. But for people earning more than about $80K, it's a bad deal. The more you make above $80K, the worse a deal it is.
I've written a wonky article (below) on this, discussing in detail the entitlement FORMULAS that nobody knows about. Even had OpenAI help compose part of the article, and it did a great job.
https://riderrants.blogspot.com/2022/12/for-most-social-security-is.html
You mean the formula to determine benefits that the SSA publishes every year https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/bendpoints.html
If people don't know, then shame on them. But, even for rich people like me, I welcome the $3,000 per month that my wife and I each get even if it will take 15 years to get back more than I paid in. Of course, if I die sooner then it won't but I don't think it will bother me too much because I would be dead.
Social Security is and always has been an insurance program, not a savings vehicle. If I buy fire insurance on my house and it doesn't burn down, then it was not a Ponzi scheme that my premiums went to someone who did have that loss and I got nothing. You get Social Security retirement benefits if you live long enough and, by the way, get disability benefits if you become disabled and your dependents, like former Speaker Ryan, get benefits if you happen to die while they are young.
Maybe other rich people don't need the benefits, but for 80 years, Social Security has made life better than it was before Social Security for the Aged and Disabled who aren't so blessed by wealth.
5467-045
How to save FDR's 'Social'ist Security in the USA?
Wait what? The USA is socialist now?
FDR is certainly one of the top five most destructive presidents in US history (LBJ is a strong contender for #1 for fucking blacks with his "Great Society", and BHO is likely in the top 5 for Obamacare; Wilson gets in for segregation, Buchanan might be in for not having the balls to deal with slavery - but that's a long shot in the realm of political possibilities).
Funny, the only mention of alternatives to cutting benefits is to raise the tax rate globally. No mention of removing the cap on earnings that are subject to the tax which would not add a penny to the tax on 80% of the population and close close to 90% of the projected shortfall for the next 75 years.
There are other proposals, notably HR 4583 Social Security 2100 Act what only removes the cap on earnings over $400,000, only impacting about 1.8% of the US population, and, yes, does gradually increase the payroll tax by 0.1 % per year until it reaches an overall tax of 14.8% against the current 12.4% in 2043, but also increases benefits by 2% for everyone. A complete elimination of the cap would greatly reduce the need to increase the tax at all to achieve mostly the same results and make the system balance of at least the next 75 years.
So, there are other proposals, just not those that please the plutocrats meeting here.
Removing the cap also removes the cap on limits to pay out. It is a temporary solution to kick the can down the road. And fuck that as I'm able to invest more once I hit that cap. Stop fucking with my income because the rest of the population is shit with money.
Only if they want to give up on winning. People love their free stuff. Retired people love their free stuff most of all. And old people actually vote.
And Social Security was explicitly not started as a "safety net" program. It was started because people used to be too proud to rely on the dole and apply for welfare. By making it a program you "pay into" and have to work to qualify for, people were given the illusion that they had earned the money, even if the initial recipients got far more back than they paid in.
But now no one thinks twice about getting free stuff from the government. Everyone wants their stimulus checks, and their loans forgiven.
Your source FLAT OUT LIED. Social Security was SOLD to the public as a safety net for those that OUTLIVED savings that had already supported them BEYOND their projected life expectancy.
"Are Republicans Finally Getting Serious About Social Security?"
No.
Next question?
With all due respect for those that were promised the IMPOSSIBLE. There is no such thing as, and never can be, a defined benefit plan that won't eventually bankrupt itself. The information required to determine how much needs to be put into the plan NEVER exists at the time the funds need to be put in.
I don't claim to have a solution, but any answer that involves ANYONE promising to pay for ANYONE to retire is guaranteed to fail.
Social Security is literally an insurance program. Just like car insurance, you pay for your coverage and the insurance company doesn't save it for you, they use it to cover other claims. When you make a claim, they pay you. First order of business is to raise the maximum income that can be taxed for SS, currently $168,600. That alone won't save it, but it's a start. Meanwhile, if you apply inflation to the payments you made in the 70's, your "paid-in" amount is significantly higher.
So what's the gov-guns for? Why isn't it just insurance?
Here's a plan. Stop [Na]tional So[zi]aliz[ing] the USA. If people need to STEAL to survive let them do it INSIDE the welfare of the public prison system. There's no justice is just allowing anyone to STEAL by gov-gun activism. Literally a mob of greedy criminals taking over the gov-gun monopoly.
Do you think anything but that described Nazi-Germany? If you don't have Liberty and Justice pursuits in your gov-guns you have Criminal Dictators and Crooks. 'guns' don't make sh*t.
Republicans aren't serious about anything relating to government. They are still in thrall to Trump and everything else is secondary.
And what did Trump do about the 'serious' -ness of Government??
Setup a De-Regulation Committee. I know it's hard/impossible for you leftards to stop worshiping gov-guns but just maybe Republicans are about taking some of that serious gov-gun dictation down a notch (LIMITED).
Course I know you'll never understand that. Being a member of the [WE] gangster-Nazi's RULE party which by it's very fabric ("democracy") requires a 'serious' Nazi-Dictator to RULE those 'icky' people.
Nothing demonstrates the self-projection of a Democrat like their insistence that everything is about a 'person'/'ruler' instead of being about 'principles'. "The [WE] mob RULES!" /s
Well, that was even less coherent than usual. If you could learn to write without every other word being "Nazi" or "goverment-guns," then you might say something meaningful.
As I said, "Course I know you’ll never understand that."
Your ignorance gets in the way every-time.