How Ranked Choice Voting Would Sort the Republican Primary Field
Trump is still a runaway favorite, even when using a vote-counting technique that's meant to make it more difficult for unpopular candidates to win elections.

Despite the persistent wish-casting from anti-Trump Republicans, there's no mechanism by which the party could force underperforming presidential candidates to exit the primary.
But what if there were? What if the field could be narrowed so that only four, or three, or one challenger was taking on former President Donald Trump?
Well, Trump would still be the runaway favorite. But the process of winnowing away the weaker candidates reveals something interesting about the Republican field: It's not Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis who seemingly has the best chance of consolidating the anti-Trump vote. It's former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley.
That's the main takeaway from a unique poll of the primary field released Friday by FairVote, a nonprofit that advocates for the adoption of ranked choice voting. The survey included about 800 Republican primary voters and operated under the principles of ranked choice voting: each participant was asked to rank the GOP field from first to last, and the candidate who finished in last place in each round of vote-counting was eliminated, with their votes reassigned elsewhere depending on the respondents' preferences.
Ranked choice voting sounds a bit complicated, but, as Reason has explained before in more detail, it does a better job of translating the median voters' will into election results than the more widely used first-past-the-post system. Without ranked choice voting, a fractured field can result in a candidate winning despite getting far less than majority support—as was the case for Trump in most of the key primary states in 2016.
The best way to explain ranked choice voting is ultimately to see it in action, which is why this FairVote poll is so interesting. It includes 11 of the current Republican candidates as well as Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin, whom some Republicans would reportedly like to see get into the race, and Miami Mayor Francis Suarez, who dropped out in August.
Trump starts out with 47.6 percent of the vote in the first round, and he enjoys a robust lead of 34.9 percent over his closest rival, DeSantis.

Because the low-ranked candidates eliminated in the first few rounds have such a tiny sliver of the overall vote, there is little change in the top-line candidates until round seven. But look at how Trump's tally changes—or, rather, doesn't change—over those first several rounds. Their gains are marginal, but Trump's top six challengers all pick up a larger share of the redistributed vote than the former president does. In other words, they were ranked higher than Trump on the vast majority of the ballots that favored the bottom-feeding candidates.
Things get really interesting after former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie is eliminated in round nine. The bulk of his support flows to Haley, who surges into second place with 20.3 percent of the total.
At that point, Haley had gained 12.6 percentage points from voters who chose eliminated candidates ahead of her. Meanwhile, entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy has gained 3.2 percentage points and DeSantis has gained 2.5 percentage points. Trump has gained just 1.1 percentage points and still sits below the 50 percent threshold.
In short, for Republican voters who did not list Trump first on the ballots, the former president is mostly ranked below the likes of Haley, Ramaswamy, and DeSantis. Trump finally gains some significant votes—more than enough to hold off Haley—once DeSantis and Ramaswamy are eliminated, though Haley also gains a sizable share from each of them.
The Republican presidential primary is not, of course, a single electoral contest and is not decided via ranked choice voting. It's a monthslong series of separate, mostly first-past-the-post elections in each of the 50 states (plus the territories and Washington, D.C.), and the results in some places bear only indirect consequences on what might happen elsewhere. The field will certainly contract at some point, but when and how that will happen are unpredictable.
At first blush, the poll suggests that a sudden contraction of the Republican field might leave open the possibility that another candidate can consolidate enough support to take on Trump one-on-one. The New York Times' Ross Douthat wrote last week about a similar outcome from the long-shot possibility of a Haley-DeSantis alliance: "If Haley or (less plausibly) Scott comes in second and DeSantis falls to third, the Florida governor should drop out and endorse the winner. If DeSantis wins but Haley is leading in New Hampshire, then he should offer a place on his ticket, and she should accept."
But a closer look at the FairVote poll indicates even that highly unlikely outcome probably wouldn't stop Trump. For all his difficulty in attracting support from voters who prefer the also-rans at the bottom of the field, Trump remains the most popular "second choice" for voters who have DeSantis and Ramaswamy as their favorites.

Any significant consolidation along the lines of what Douthat suggests would require that Ramaswamy drop out, at a minimum. It might require that DeSantis bails too. And no matter how stirring of an endorsement speech the Florida governor might be able to muster, it seems unlikely that the bulk of his voters would swing to Haley over Trump.
There's a long way to go and many things can still change, of course. National polls are largely meaningless anyway.
But the FairVote poll does a novel job of describing the conundrum facing the Republican Party: Trump will only lose the nomination if his supporters abandon him, no matter how unpopular he remains with the rest of the party. Indeed, even when using a vote-counting technique that's meant to make it more difficult for unpopular candidates to win elections, Trump is winning bigly.
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More evidence RCV gives voters the worst choice.
What? In this case it gives the same outcome as without RCV.
Unchristian party spoiler votes handed drug legalizer Grover Cleveland's party a victory in 1892. The Republican party could have saved America from the Demon Rum if not poisoned by too much choice and misguided extremism. President Harrison's heroic 1893 disruption of Canadian narcotic shipments was, by sheer coincidence, associated with the Panic. But Ohio's John Sherman explained that the Republican party inexorably replaced choice with Prayer and Abstinence. Sloppy seconds voting and the Pronatalist Mises Caucus are the best remaining means to permanently eliminate law-repealing libertarian spoiler votes.
I completely disagree and point to the article Boehm references from Reason, which "it does a better job of translating the median voters' will into election results than the more widely used first-past-the-post system."
Bubba's point about Trump winning with either method also doesn't support your statement, in fact it rebuffs it.
I'm disappointed Reason isn't backing RCV, because it's something TPTB hate, because it takes away the statistically backed fact that "The Party Picks The Candidate" as the textbook with that title (well known by political science majors) makes its point.
RCV is likely to result in many libertarian candidates winning the general race. Consider a typical race with a R, a D, and a well know libertarian, L. When people learn that choosing a L doesn't mean their vote is wasted (in which case it will go to the R or D), then many will vote L as their first choice, being fed up with the major parties. All of a sudden, the Libertarian party is a big factor, and it will cause Rs and Ds to modify their promises to get some of those Ls to vote for them in the first round or second otherwise.
As part of their campaign against RCV, you'll see the major parties corrupting it, as they did in Alaska, so the party picks the candidate. If you think about it, every election of a person to an office should use RCV: it generates a winner by majority rather than fastest out of the gate, and voters only go to the polls once.
Further, there's no need for political parties or primaries, but if we're going to have primaries, they should all be RCV. TPTB will fight tooth and nail against it - do you seriously think Biden would have won the D nomination if Obama/Hillary/deep state didn't pick him because they were deeply involved in the Russian Hoax and the immoral resistance to Trump.
They accuse Trump of breaking norms, when all the norms I see brroken are by the Democrats: push to pack the SCOTUS, push to add DC and PR as states, impeach on falsehoods created by the Democrats, prosecuting the leading candidate on BS charges to keep him in court rather than on the campaign trail, the unequal justice of cruel punishment for Trump supporters getting the max for technical violations, while the Bidens and friends get protected by the Bidens.
Meanwhile, Trump did break a norm, he called out Democrats using blunt to the point language rather than the usual political blather, using our freedom of speech. Is it any wonder Obama setup the censorship complex, and didn't tell anyone about it?
Serial Rape Voting has nothing to do with helping voters. The entire concept was assembled to help the Republican Party restore female enslavement under color of the Comstock laws. The freak coincidence of Trump out-hypnotizing Organized Televangelism and Gary Johnson offering a pro-choice, anti-anarchist solution to voters confused by obsession with individualism accidentally shuffled and redealt 127 electoral votes and elect Trump. Blanking out this patently obvious fact is more convenient than recognizing spoiler clout in defense of rights.
If anything, a good argument for RCV is that it saves money on elections by eliminating any need for runoff elections. You're basically holding the general election and the runoff election at the same time.
Not only that, it violates "one person, one vote."
If person A finds 4 candidates "acceptable enough" to rank, and person B finds only 1 candidate to their liking, person A got to vote 4 different times. Person B only got one vote.
Of course, we now have overwhelming evidence that the establishment is just going to rig the vote anyway (whether with their corporate media propaganda, cheat-by-mail, or just good old-fashioned computerized voting fraud), so the exercise is largely pointless.
RCV is just one more opportunity for election shenanigans.
Looter Gauntlet Voting is the obvious replacement for entrenched pressure groups coalescing into two malleable factions competing for deadly power. That system failed when pro-choice Libertarians reshuffled 127 electoral votes in November 2016. Democrats were as eager as Republicans to stuff prisons with hippies, brown, black and latin youths in October 2016. That suddenly changed, and Dem politicians have won with female votes. Clearly the LP HAD to be neutralized by anarchist planks and infiltrators if ordered liberty was to be saved and women again put in their place. Gauntlet voting can extirpate that threat to coercion.
"Not only that, it violates “one person, one vote.”"
It absolutely does not. Each round, each voter only gets one vote. Unless they chose not to put a name in slots 2, 3, 4, etc.
If you think about it as a continual runoff where only one person is eliminated until someone gets more than 50% of the vote, does that make it easier to understand?
Or are you anti-RCV and want to put your false information out there hoping to fool the gullible and the stupid?
"Unless they chose not to put a name in slots 2, 3, 4, etc."
Did you re-read that before you sent it?
Because what you effectively just said is "one man, four (or more "etc.") votes, unless they choose to only use one."
Which completely refutes your initial assertion. And in an entirely stupid and un self aware way.
Their vote still only counts once.
But if you think of the this primary violating "one person, one vote" then don't primaries themself also violate one person, one vote?
In a closed primary the party members get to vote for their candidate for the office, then on election day they get to vote for them again.
"Because what you effectively just said is “one man, four (or more “etc.”) votes"
Maybe it'll help if I siplify things for you even further. Each round is a separate runoff, with one candidate being eliminated each time. So, much like a runoff, if you choose to vote in the election but choose not to vote in the runoff, it's the exact same thong as putting a candidate in slot 1 and no one in any other slot. You are saying "if this person is eliminated, I won't vote for anyone else". So it's exactly "one person, one vote" except it has instant runoffs and saves millions of dollars.
It's not actually hard to understand for someone with even below-average intelligence. The only ways you could possibly believe it isn't "one person, one vote" is if you are dumb as a box of rocks or if you are intentionally being dishonest.
I don't know how smart you are, but I'm guessing it's the latter.
"Not only that, it violates “one person, one vote.”"
How do you figure? Are you interpreting the idiom literally? Because that's a mistake and you drew the wrong conclusion.
Indeed, even when using a vote-counting technique that's meant to make it more difficult for unpopular candidates to win elections, Trump is winning bigly.
Huh, that's an interesting way of describing RCV. And an interesting take: Damn, the unpopular candidate STILL wins, even when we try to
jiggerfortify the election in a way to prevent it!Hillary has a plan for that: Reeducate wrong thinking voters.
Reeducation? Do we get to go to camp? And ride the train?
It’ll definitely help you concentrate.
You get showers too.
Sounds like a real gas!
Can he really be unpopular when he has the highest percentage of voters supporting him? And is just shy of fifty percent in those polls (in a few he's above fifty percent)? Sometimes Reason follows a narrative that fails logic. If one candidate has 45% who support them, the next forty, the next ten the next five, the 45% is the most popular of that set. The other three sets of supporters may not like the first one, but they also don't like the other two. Meaning counting them as a mutual supportive group is illogical. The most popular candidate would win. Just because a majority voted for other candidates doesn't make those other candidates more popular.
He’s definitely unpopular with globalists.
Just about everyone is who dare worries about their own self interest.
Well, in Eric's opinion it would be best for the person who had 5% support three times in RCV be the winning candidate. Because 5% support for a candidate is better than 45% support when it comes to saving "muh democracy". It is apparent if only 45% support the candidate and care enough to go to the polls and vote, that means that 55% didn't support that candidate. Thus the candidate with 5% support would be the more popular candidate because they received third-place ranking in every RCV ballot. Consistently being third shows more people will tolerate them than they would otherwise. Or something like that. I don't really understand the logic.
"Can he really be unpopular when he has the highest percentage of voters supporting him?"
Yes. He has the highest percentage of *Republican* voters supporting him, but more don't like him than do. That's generally known as being "unpopular". It gets worse once you leave the friendly confines of the GOP primary.
Only 47% of Republicans, who comprise only 27% of the American electorate, support him. That gives him 12.7% support. Democrats (29% of the electorate) almost unanimously oppose him, but let's give him 5% D support for shits and giggles. That gives him another 1% of the general electorate, resulting in a total of 13.7%. Independent support for Trump is 28%. Because independents are 44% of the electorate, that gives him another 12.3%, bringing his grand total to 26%.
Granted, as other Rs drop out he will gain support and when he gets the nomination he will get the vote of almost all Rs. With 100% of GOP votes, his support will balloon to ... 42.3%.
Finally, Trump is the only President in history to never reach 50% approval during his Presidency and he's one of only five, joining three in the 1800s and George W Bush, to lose the popular vote. And he got shellacked in the popular vote.
So yes. No matter how you slice it, he's unpopular. And apparently less attractive to non-MAGA people than I expected.
Republicans AND Democrats don’t like Biden, what does that make him?
Oh right, President with 80,000,000 votes.
It makes him unpopular as well. Just slightly less unpopular than Trump. Biden at least cracked 50% approval, which Trump never did.
This is why the GOP is heading for another loss in 2024. Nothing will make Trump more popular. He is at his ceiling. Biden is not, and he still beats Trump in a head-to-head matchup.
Biden isn't popular, but Trump is worse. Biden's the better of two bad options, since apparently we're can't have candidates who aren't eligible for Social Security any more.
Once upon a time, in a nation very, very near, there was a concept called "one mane, one vote".
And Fabio had 2 votes.
I'm not sure where lions ever got the vote but that does sound like a cool nation.
Everywhere else, ranked-choice voting is still "one man, one vote". There are several good reasons to criticize RCV but that is not one of them.
^Fun fact: No matter how many hands Rossami has, he wouldn't be able to find his ass any faster with any of them.
I think he was talking about Houston. Maybe a precinct on the South Side.
"Once upon a time, in a nation very, very near, there was a concept called “one mane, one vote”."
And with RCV, that's still the case. Your inability to understand is sad. It's not a difficult thing to comprehend.
Great system. The one with 7.7% of the (initial) vote "wins".
Yes, the more bullshit you add to the process the easier it is to cheat.
Everybody's third choice wins. The guy who was "I don't know anything about him but at least he's not 'X'".
Democracy!
As Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."
Naturally such a system will choose the candidate who is the worst one, except for all the others.
how about cacuseseses and primaries as ranked choice voting instead?
That would be an interesting idea, using RCV at the primary level, not the general election level.
I prefer the idea of weighted ranked choice voting in primaries.
You fill out a ballot, let's say there are 5 options.
1. 5 points
2. 4 points
3. 3 points
4. 2 points
5. 1 point
One round, winner is the one with the most total points. Voters are welcome to leave any slot blank if they choose.
If someone wants multiple votes they should be forced to dilude their vote.
60% 1st, 35% 2nd, 15% 3rd.
Sure, although maybe 60, 30, 10 (adds up to 100) would be better. But at that point you're just arguing over how the weigh the vote, not really the concept in general.
And yeah, you would not have to put all of the candidates on there. Top 3 or Top 5 or whatever works.
You are so right, brother. Voting must only happen the way it occurred when we were growing up. If you cannot vote in person on election day, then you do not deserve to vote. I don't care if you are in the hospital or if you are a cripple and can't get to the polling station. Too bad for you!
He didn't advocate for any of that.
New (lame) troll. Muted.
So, the smart candidate has his/her supporters just give 5 points to them and not any points to any other hoping to get points from non-supporters while denying points to other candidates.
What percentage of primary voters would you think are in this "smart candidate's" cult, that he can ensure they don't give other options?
If it's enough, (s)he would have won anyway. If it's not, then why does it matter?
Better yet, conventions?
"the FairVote poll does a novel job of describing the conundrum facing the Republican Party"
It also does a novel job illustrating how ranked choice voting would change elections in the real world.
It shows there would be no change in this case since anything other than first is nothing. Trump wins either way. Maybe that was your point?
An underperforming candidate who is also the favorite, interesting.
I was just about to say the same thing. Trump typically outpolls all of the other primary contenders combined. The author of this piece has a different definition of 'unpopular' than any I'm familiar with.
But he's a populist! He's tricking people into liking him, for the wrong reasons! It's a threat to democracy!
Unpopular with those not Republicans, I.e. Donkeys. Boehm is braying loudly.
TDS has many effects on the brain, all of them bad.
The blogger's using "unpopular" to mean "has high negatives" or "has a lot of enemies". Trump is very popular, but being vehemently anti-Trump is also popular.
Trump is going to win.
Get used to it.
It would be the most hilarious thing ever. I’d need a LOT of popcorn.
Trump didn't lead in polling at any point during 2020 and only in a few late polls in 2016. He is leading in a number of polls a year out and tied in just about all the others. Something tells me it's going to take a hell of a lot of fortifying to beat him. And if that happens, it's Game over man, Game over!.
I wonder what the dog charges will do to Biden.
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that. Is that something to do with his dogs continuing to bite people? Or an autocorrect mistake.
Someone has made a FOI request about him potentially beating his dogs. Which might explain why they are always biting people.
Hadn't heard that. That won't play well with the wine drinking club.
Hey, if a Dem did it the dog must have needed it.
They may decide to forgo fortification and go for assassination.
Assassination's too obvious. With fortification, they could always say the polls were all wrong. An assassination, what...make it look like an accident? How convincing could that be?
Ordinary trigonometry and the Parkland Hospital drawings of JFK's wounds prove the President who stole victory from Nixon was shot through the throat by a shot fired from ahead in a horizontal plane defined by the railroad tracks. The angle from the 6th floor window to the tight turn from Houston onto Elm St. is 45 degrees--not very different from the angle of Oswald's shot downward through the body of the Navy Secretary who degraded Oswald's USMC discharge to "undesirable," thereby denying him benefits. High school math and the Parkland illustration prove there were at least two shooters. Oswald's vendetta against Connally helped competent Republicans on the Warren Commission conceal the usurper's assassin and thereby strengthen democracy and ordered liberty.
But that's horrible.
Energy independence.
Lower inflation.
$2.50 a gallon gas.
Peace treaties in the middle east.
Border security.
Everyone treated the same.
Less government in our personal lives.
No one telling us what appliances to buy.
How will we ever cope?
Bad old days, right?
killing Vivek by mob seems to be someone's RCV
Rather than ranked choice, how about a survivor primary. Every week we get to vote one candidate off the island.
That's pretty much how it used to work. First Iowa, then New Hampshire, then South Carolina. Now they want to pack the calendar early, the candidate with the most name recognition (e.g. Joe Biden) can win with the support of low-information voters, rather than the old method of having to prove to skeptical small-state voters in person that he is retains any shred of his former level of minimal mental competence.
Fuck the DNC would like to eliminate the primaries all together. Probably the RNC would to.
Now they want to pack the calendar early, the candidate with the most name recognition (e.g. Joe Biden) can win with the support of low-information voters, rather than the old method of having to prove to skeptical small-state voters in person
Interesting...but I'm not sure how you can say small state voters are more informed. I'm well aware that a major problem with democracy is low-information voters, but letting Iowa and NH decide for us doesn't help. Does it?
Better informed in one respect: possibly actually meeting the candidate.
How 'bout we do away with primaries and caucuses and go back to letting party leaders choose their parties' candidates rationally and by negotiation?
While you’re at it, why not have just one party and have them choose the president. /sarc
Bring back the smoke-filled rooms!
Sadly it would be a vape-filled room.
The smoke-filled rooms would certainly choose more competent candidates than the current clown shows.
!
Ranked choice voting sounds a bit complicated, but, as Reason has explained before in more detail, it does a better job of translating the median voters’ will into election results than the more widely used first-past-the-post system.
Q. Since when is “translating the median voters’ will into election results” the goal of an election?
A. When the deplorable, non-DNC/RNC approved candidate has such a huge lead on the rest of the bench warmers.
Luckily, the three bong hit idea of a RCV Republican primary will stay where it belongs, in dipshit states like Maine and Alaska.
https://twitter.com/AuronMacintyre/status/1710421335929745798?t=juvuWp0mYYNAZHKT4PoVeA&s=19
“I can’t believe people stopped believing in the system after I imprisoned my political opponents while making the country dirty, poor, dangerous, and degenerate”
Except to see a whole lot more of this hand wringing now that these fairly obvious truths have made their way to Fox News
[Link]
You are right. Elections don't work because sometimes they result in Democrats being elected. If elections really worked it would mean only constitutional conservatives like Josh Hawley or Donald Trump would ever get elected. Since Bernie Sanders gets elected in "elections" it means that constitutional conservatives like us must reject elections and support Donald Trump for president.
Ok sarc
I'm sure the minority business owners who've been looted and had their buisnesses set on fire will take solace in your self-aggrandizing pro-subjugation rhetoric as they vote against you.
This, sadly, is God's Truth as clear to all honest Americans as was Richard Nixon's identification of Timothy Leary as the most dangerous man in America. The identification of Billy Graham, Spiro Agnew and Richard Nixon as the most popular men in male America stands as proof that our system was finally working to restore asset-forfeiture Prohibitionism in 1968.
Well, it's a nice pet theory, but people will game the system anyway. You want someone a majority can get behind, not someone no one is offended by.
If offered the choice, the majority would get behind candidates who are not incompetent egomaniacs suffering from obvious severe mental illness or dementia, which are the kind of candidates we should continue to expect from the Primary Game Show.
What's wrong with the goal of getting someone no-one is offended by? It's made Budweiser and Miller the biggest-selling beers. Would you rather take a chance of getting a long shot you'd really, really like. or would you rather have an assurance of not getting someone you'd strongly dislike?
https://twitter.com/AtlRey/status/1710408193170411918?t=tutoPsDp2m3XZz26FGQD8w&s=19
Did you know?
In order to get a plea deal, dozens of J6 political prisoners had to denounce Trump, read approved books, apologize, and work with a 'cult deprogramming' expert to help them dispel the notion that the 2020 election was stolen.
It's loyalty oaths all the way down.
The guy who refused, who wasn’t even in DC, got 22 years.
Forced loyalty oaths are ok, but don't you dare dehumanize your enemies!
The only thing I found is that Robert Sanford sought out cult deprogramming to mitigate his sentencing. I did not find where this was part of his plea deal (although it wouldn't surprise me). Nothing about "dozens" or "books."
I'm interested to read more if anyone has a better source than some guy on twitter .
This whole thing seems like an exercise by the establishment to figure out how they can get their preferred candidate after Trump is removed from the race.
O/T - after a health crisis several weeks ago, checked into hospice, ready to die.
Long trip ahead of me, but I'm on my way back. Hope to be more active here soon.
Damn man, best of luck.
It was a trunk bear wasn't it? Personally, I'd got with the story that I fought a trunk bear and won.
Rcv only really works in a true parliamentarian system, where all candidates are chosen by party leaders.
https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1710135561359364313?t=HcidAgrmp4BknJcS7TL2KQ&s=19
Taylor Swift is ‘only person’ who could defeat Trump in 2024, ex-aide Alyssa Farah Griffin declares
[Link]
If the Democrats dumped Biden and Kamala and nominated ANY Democrat Congressman or governor, they would beat Trump.
I whish they’d make a new tag for these articles, like #What can we do to stop Trump?
#CV Padding For The NYT Or WaPo
The only way for the GOP to stop Trump at this point is to do something they can't talk about in public.
https://twitter.com/sovereignbrah/status/1710117407463755877?t=QDKxZ2_IGJJUvxQWzxecJw&s=19
[Meme]
LMAO the gofundme for the leftist’ activist’s death is for his friends to take time off from work, no mention of funeral costs at all.
Just profiting off his death. Simply ghoulish.
[Link]
Cringe
https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1710363082927550731?t=_kTFyTxhP2NGTwESmKYxww&s=19
Travis Kelce on Aaron Rodgers calling him “Mr. Pfizer” on Tuesday:
“I thought it was pretty good. With the mustache, I look like someone named Mr. Pfizer. Who knew I'd get into vax wars with Aaron Rodgers, man? Mr. Pfizer against the Johnson and Johnson family over there.”
Kelce says he 1000% comfortable with it.
(via @Chiefs)
So bohem lays out how ranked choice can be manipulated to oust who people want? Just like ho dems win ranked choice states? Bohem this is why libritarians hate you
If you don’t understand RCV then you’re too dumb to vote.
And if you fear it, you should be voted off the island.
Understand it, don't fear it but feel it's a shit system and doesn't solve any problems, just creates different problems. And tends to be favored by pie in the sky utopian thinkers who think the next tweak will be the one to bring on the utopia.
The fact is that the only way to insure a majority voted candidate is to limit your choices to two. As soon as people can on 2+n candidates, you are more likely to have a winner who only wins a plurality. They are by definition, the most popular, that doesn't mean they are popular with the majority, just that they are more popular than all the other candidates. Yes, winning 49% means 51% voted against you, but unless they all voted for one candidate it is a meaningless because none of the other candidates were popular enough, by themselves to get 49+% of the vote.
Ranked choice doesn't actually solve this. I really like candidate A. But if he loses, I guess I like candidate B, and if he loses, uhh maybe candidate C. Neither candidate B or C do I really like. I like candidate A. Candidate B and C don't become more popular, you just asking of the candidates I don't like, which ones I like the least. To somehow create the illusion of a majority choice. But it isn't. It's still a plurality choice with people settling on candidates in decreasing order.
Ask Alaskans how happy they are that their senator was chosen by ranked choice and helped the Democrats keep control of the Senate. I'm betting they are less than happy with the results.
And ranked choice actually seems to be an easier system to rig than first past the gate. It's game theory. If I am unpopular, my best shot at winning is to have the other side run multiple candidates that destroy themselves. It is unlikely my voters are going to defect but I can disillusion my opponents voters enough that some will conclude I am a better choice than their opponent. I don't have to move towards those voters just hope that I can make one or both of my opponents so unpallatable that some will vote for me as a second or third choice purely out of spite. It's as bad as jungle primaries in California but less likely to result in the candidate from the party the state majority support, actually winning. Yes, people vote party, and that isn't necessarily an evil thing. Because parties exist for a reason.
Ranked choice voting only means that the Democrats will win, so we should oppose it.
Fuck off, Shrike.
I am sorry that you are supporting the Democrats who are destroying the USA.
Bubba sounds vaccinated and multiple boosted
I think RCV will just make machine politics more entrenched rather than less entrenched. Party A picks it's candidate and then uses the political machine to eliminate any other candidates from Party A while also helping to secure two or more candidates from Party B who will spend far more time attacking each other because they're competing for the same base. Maybe even help get a candidate from Party C that is similar to Party B to further muddy the waters. This insures Party A keeps it's base while splitting the base of Party B three or more ways and makes both (or more candidates) from Party B less liked by their base. Which will result in at least some of those disillusioned to vote for Party A out of spite. Not because they like Candidate A, but because the vitriol and intraparty fighting of party B makes all candidates but their most favorite less likable. And of course there is the fall off affect. Maybe 75% choose a second choice, but of that maybe only 50% care to choose a third choice etc. Pretty soon you are below a majority but created the illusion of a majority because you one 50%+1 of the plurality that remained. You still only won a plurality. But because most Americans don't understand statistics, you can claim to have won a majority (falsely).
You are so right. Nothing will ever change so we should not change anything.
Fucking idiot. Not even a good parody just lame. And not even close to what I stated. But based on the sophmoricness of your parody I doubt you actually understood what I stated. Is this one of Sarcs pathetic socks?
It's Pluggo. You can tell by the particular talking-points in the rant about the debt and the wall below.
There is no hope so don't change anything. You are so right.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
Oh, not at all. I completely agree with you. There is no hope and nothing will change so we should not support changing anything. We should instead support Donald Trump for President because he will surely bring about the Libertarian Utopia that we all desire, or if not, at least he will kick out all of the foreigners.
Where did I say no hope or even imply it? Oh look, nowhere. So your reading comprehension is subpar at best. Typical of pseudo intellectuals. Look at me I'm so smart, trendy, hip and edgy I support RCV because someone stated it was the answer to all our problems and anyone who doesn't agree is reactionaries and kulaks.
Fuck off, Shrike.
I am so totally convinced by your intellectual arguments.
As opposed to your drivel? It isn't even a good parody. You haven't actually gotten my argument even close to being correct. Instead you've submitted a straw man to ridicule rather than what I actually wrote.
Eat shit and die, asshole.
So, the smart candidate has his/her supporters just give 5 points to them and not any points to any other hoping to get points from non-supporters while denying points to other candidates.
For some reason Reason posted this here and at the same time posted it in the place it was intended.
The better point here would be for Party A to encouage its voters to vote only for its candidates and to have other party(s) voters to vote Party A candidate as second choice.
If you think people fear ranked choice voting, you either don’t understand fear or are a dishonest shitbag and shouldn’t be listened to.
One other thought, parties are always going to exist, even in one party countries. They just won’t officially be parties but they still have Troskyists vs Stalinists. Because people are going to disagree and join with others who have similar priorities. Parties were emerging within months of Washington’s elections (actually the protoparties were emerging before the first shot was fired on Lexington Green on that April morn).
Parties are not an inherently bad thing, nor are protest votes or voting for a party. The pseudo intellectual class would have you believe all three of these things are bad but they aren't. If you vote for a party, it's because you believe that party's platform and want as many in that party as possible to help get that platform enacted. This is a completely rationale view and reason to vote. The reality is that there are very few true independents in any governing system. The best system is more parties, not less, and the one with the most votes is the most popular. Maybe a runoff between the top two, but ranked choice voting is no better than first past the gate style we have used for two centuries. And the best way to get rid of deadwood is the primary system, which most voters don't even bother to participate in. That's why they feel they have no choice. Because they don't bother to help choose their preferred party's candidates.
You are right. The best system is the one that we have used for the past two hundred years, which has brought us to the current point in time. We shouldn't change anything.
Fuck off, Shrike.
There is no best system is the point, idiot. All systems have flaws. All systems have pros. No system can fix it and create a utopia. Our system has worked what has brought us to this point is that we have abandoned that system. First we changed how senators were elected. Than we passed an income tax. Then we began convincing people that the governments job was more than what is described in the Constitution. The reason we are where we are is not how people are elected but because government now is involved in everything every part of our lives. And no voting system can change that. What can and will change that is less government. Period. Changing voting systems is just rearranging the deck chairs after striking the iceberg. But I doubt you have the intellectual ability to understand anything more complicated than duhr he no like ranked choice voting, he bad man who doesn't want to change system. Idiot.
Our system is the best one that has ever been devised, ever. There can be no debate on this point. Any change to any voting system only means surrender to Democrats.
Our system is the best. Doesn't mean it's perfect idiot. God you have less intellectual ability than a buck during rut. You can't actually argue against my points, because that takes energy and thought, so you resort to sophomoric, puerile parody and ridicule. You can't defend your position so you attack any who point out the weakness of your position. Like most pseudo intellectuals.
If you look for perfection you will always be disappointed. Want to change the system? Tired of your choices? Get involved. Run for office, volunteer, participate in the primary process. Etc. Changing the rules won't fix anything when it comes to your choices. It's all unicorn farts. Real change takes work and sacrifice. Something I'm sure which is foreign to you.
Well as my brother JesseAZ has stated, I cannot support someone who has broken so many promises.
Trump promised to build a wall along the southern border and make Mexico pay for it, and he broke his promise.
Trump promised to cut in half the national debt, and he broke his promise.
Trump promised to drain the swamp, and he broke his promise.
I can't support someone who broke so many of his promises.
Fuck off, Shrike.
I am sorry that you are making excuses to someone who has broken so many promises.
If democracy really worked, it would mean only conservatives would win. Like Josh Hawley and Donald Trump.
Since socialist communist traitors like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden get elected instead, it means democracy doesn't work. Libertarians must instead reject democracy and instead impose libertarianism on the public. It is for their own good.
Who cares if the majority does not support Trump's policy on immigration. They are clearly brainwashed indoctrinated morons, products of the public school system. We libertarians should support imposing Trump's immigration policy on the entire nation whether the people support it or not, because otherwise those immigrants will just overwhelm this country with socialism and shit. The people are stupid and don't deserve to be listened to. Build the wall, keep out the foreigners, and make America great!
Fuck off, Shrike.
I am sorry that you support the people who are invading the USA and turning the country into Venezuela North.
Such a bad parody it's pathetic. What's even more pathetic is you actually think you're being clever.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
The majority don't support any single position on immigration. If 45% like choice A, and 40% choice B and ten percent choice C and 5% undecided it doesn't mean the majority oppose choice A. Choice A is the most popular choice, people who choose choice C don't like any of the two choices either and the undecided either don't care or like some hybrid. Adding choice B and C and Undecided to say choice A is rejected by the majority is not a valid point. All of those other choices are even less popular. Choice A remains the most popular. Period. There is nothing inherent in our system, or in democracy that requires a majority to agree just a plurality. The only way to insure majority is to limit choice to a binary system, e.g. less freedom. Less liberty. Allowing plurality rule allows people to have greater choices. If choice B or C is what more people want they will vote for it. Limiting people to a binary choice is actually eliminating choice almost altogether. The problem with RCV is that it tries to create a majority choice where none actually exists. It's like me, a diehard Seahawks fan, rooting for the Chiefs because I don't like the Eagles. I don't like either team. I am just forced to either root for the one I like the least or not root for either (which is basically what I did, I don't really remember the Superbowl and not because I was drinking, I watched it but didn't care really). The one I wanted to win wasn't there, so any support I gave to KC was less than halfhearted. Truth be told I didn't like either team (I may have actually supported the Eagles, I really don't remember because I wasn't for either team really). I as a voter might have a top one or two choices, but after that, number three is six of one, half a dozen of another. That is if I even bother to pick a number three. And most people are the same way. After my top choice, I'm likely voting blindly for party, period, or against someone rather than for someone. So, in essence it's not a big difference from the current system, it just sounds nicer to pseudo intellectuals like you.
Libertarians don't want to impose anything on anyone. If you want to be part of a democratically run majoritarian government and social welfare state, you ought to be able to choose that. Libertarians just want to be able to make different choices.
Insisting on more choices isn't "imposing" anything on anyone, it is demanding from people like you that you stop oppressing other people.
If libertarians ever had a majority and won control of all branches of government, they would impose their political preferences on people that want different things from government. That is what elections do. "Limited government" is still a choice about what kind of government to have.
Thus, if libertarians want low taxes, low social welfare spending, few regulations, and so on, then they need to be the majority of voters. If they are not, then they have to live in a country where their political preferences simply lost the election, which is true for anyone not in the majority.
Remember that JasonT20 supports cold-blooded murder as a preventative for, well, he really isn’t quite sure:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?…”
Why, those protesters might have put their feet up on desks, or something equally barbaric!
Jason really is a slimy pile of lefty shit, ain’t he?
No, that is incorrect. Libertarianism is about giving everybody the choice to live under the "government" they want; we call that form of government a "private association".
What you want is to use the power of the state to expropriate people and coerce them in order to enrich yourself.
Libertarianism gives you the choice of joining others in creating a high taxes, high social welfare spending, highly regulated environment to live in. And libertarianism prohibits you from using force to impose that choice on others.
“The majority” supports an incoherent set of policies that satisfies their needs for virtue signaling and spending other people’s money. One of the reasons we don’t have direct democracy is because popular “majorities” are incapable of creating consistent, functioning policies.
I'm not sure what you think Trump has to do with libertarians, but the issue isn't even immigration. Trump supports immigration, so do most Americans. What people object to is illegal migration and rewarding people for illegally crossing the border. You know the group of people who is most vehemently opposed to illegal migration? Legal immigrants, like myself.
What people object to is illegal migration and rewarding people for illegally crossing the border. You know the group of people who is most vehemently opposed to illegal migration? Legal immigrants, like myself.
Do you buy food and fresh produce grown in the U.S. where a large portion of the workforce are undocumented immigrants? Being so vehemently against illegal immigration, are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and pay a lot more for food?
You should be advised that JasonT20 supports cold-blooded murder as a preventative for, well, he really isn’t quite sure:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?…”
Why, those protesters might have put their feet up on desks, or something equally barbaric!
Jason really is a slimy pile of lefty shit, ain’t he?
JasonT20 thinks like a 19th century mercantilist and defendant of slavery. It's not surprising that someone like that has no problem with murder either.
In actual fact, food would likely get cheaper without illegal alien workers: the nations they come from can produce food at lower cost than we can in the US. It is US trade barriers that have produced the current absurd agricultural system.
But, congratulations, JasonT20, you have resurrected not just one but two bogus 19th century arguments: "without slave labor, who would pick our cotton" and "we need to produce all food domestically in order to help our economy".
Are you getting paid by the word At last count you've posted 14 times on this article. Maybe next time, save your thoughts and post once per piece, as I do. There's no need to repeat yourself a dozen times.
It's time to face facts people, democracy has failed. Fortunately, I have the solution; steel cage Texas Death Match (with optional rabid wolverines)!
All the candidates go in, one comes out. Can make it pay-per-view, help pay off the national debt or something.
A much better system would include far more than just 11 declared candidates. The choice should include everyone who ever thought about running. And those who would accept the nomination if it was offered to them. As well as anyone (unlimited number) who the voter wants to write in. A thousand choices is probably about right. And of course everyone who votes for one should at least be forced to contemplate voting for 1000 because otherwise they aren't choosing, they're just lazy.
RCV - The voting system for those who have WAY too much time on their hands.
A far better system than RCV would also allow for weighting of votes – not just the ordering and counting. So for example a voter might weight their 1st round of votes as 25% for A, 38% for B, 17% for C, 61% for D, and 82% for E. A second voter, far less eager about the entire field, might have their weights added up to less than 100%. Or they could turn it all up to 11 for that extra push over the cliff. If B is the one eliminated, then the voter themselves could reweight all their votes for the 2nd round of voting. And of course they could change what the weights add up to for any round to indicate whether they are getting more/less excited about the election/candidates at the additional rounds of voting.
It might seem complicated, but it allows for far more nuance by voters.
And this would be "far better" by what criteria?
You don't know. You're just making shit up.
I know Reason likes to sit on the bleachers on the culture war issues, but Lawrence Fox was just arrested in London for "conspiring to disrupt ULEZ cameras".
Let's try this. Instead of picking one candidate from a list of nominees, we get to vote Yes/No for each one. If polls are correct, clear majorities would vote No for both Biden and Trump. Then we can start over.
Then everyone would try to stay off the ballot until they were the only ones left. What makes you think Biden & Trump would come up first?
"...If polls are correct, clear majorities would vote No for both Biden and Trump..."
Not according to some polls regarding Trump.
But it sure reads like that when you call it that. Funny how within the past 20 years newsmen started referring to the presidential nomination as a singular "primary". I've no idea how or why that came about.
And they keep reporting on national polls, which are irrelevant.
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They're not irrelevant, but once you have figured which will be the swing states, they give you inferior information. Until then, they're a useful encapsulation.
They’re not irrelevant, but once you have figured which will be the swing states, they give you inferior information.
Which brings up the question of why a swing state should matter more to the outcome of the presidential election than solid red and blue states. Swing states will be the ones to see the two major party nominees after their conventions, they will be the ones where 95% of the campaign spending will take place, and it is the issues people in those states most care about that the candidates will talk about in the debates, their speeches and in the promises they make. If that's the way its going to work, why don't we just elect the president from those states alone and everyone else can spend their time on other things.
Voting is your civic duty.
https://www.google.com/search?client=avast-a-2&q=vote+or+die+south+park&oq=vote+or+&aqs=avast.2.69i57j0l7.7275j0j1&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:d2a3fb91,vid:9pSh0VAVYn4,st:0
You should keep in mind that JasonT20 supports cold-bloded murder as a preventative for, well, he really isn't quite sure:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”
Why, those protesters might have put their feet up on desks, or something equally barbaric!
Jason really is a slimy pile of lefty shit, ain't he?
IMO, this is merely Boehm's hail-Mary attempt at keeping Trump from office.
I've noticed that the Cathedral has started anointing Haley as the Republican candidate that people are allowed to vote for. I wouldn't be surprised if the next-to-last attempt at keeping Trump from office turns out to be the Democrats all unilaterally announcing two months before the election that Trump is being removed from the ballot and replaced with Haley.
"We will tinker with the voting system until it leads to the outcomes desired by the intelligentsia."
Ranked choice voting looks good on paper but the devil resides in the implementation. The reassignment of any votes by the "voting system" is antidemocratic and flat wrong in my opinion. The people who cast those votes that were reassigned by the "voting system" were not allowed to choose their choice of those left standing.
Nicki Haley makes me want to vomit. She's a rank choice zionst neo-con who never met a war she didn't like. She supports that zionist hell hole israel, the war in Ukraine and wants to send off more of the American taxpayer's money and material to that corrupt little coke sniffling thug, Zelensky.
I wouldn't vote for here if she was the last one standing.
Besides, George Carlin said it best: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxsQ7jJJcEA
You need to put a sock in it! Anyone who turns against Israel is a terrorist loving moron!
I have always loved the idea of ranked choice voting. But crap, is this supposed to convince me it is a good idea? I'd be fine with Haley. She is a bit right of me, but she seems to be a decent human. I guess this is an unfair way to beat up on the republicans. After all, the democrats seem to prefer an incoherent 80 year old and the most incompetent vice president in US history. We are doomed. Doomed, I say.
There are large number of Trump fanatics who believe everything that comes out of his mouth among Repub primary voters. He has this locked up.
Ackshully, the semiliterate Trumpanzee channels cannot even frame a response to Alexandria. They resort instead to pretending she farted when in fact a male voice grunted into a nearby mic. "Why do Democrats keep farting on camera" blends ad-feminem and tu quoque into political snickering lobotomized to the third-grader level. Watching God's looters lose is the new Porky's-level entertainment.
The author of this article is either Stoned or just Stupid! The only way this is true is if you squint your eyes and look crosseyed at it!
Patrick Henry and Al Smith examined past records as a guide for making future choices. The 1976 uptick in pro-choice, individual rights Libertarian votes created demand for fake and imaginary "future alternatives" to real elections which threatened to enable freedom. Similarly, fake and imaginary energy is conjured out of wishful thinking to cripple our capacity to enslave energy instead of people. The result is unworkable bird-choppers and sloppy-seconds electioneering mirroring "the revolution" and "when Jesus comes."
Oxymoronic Statement of the 2023!!!
"Trump is still a runaway favorite, even when using a vote-counting technique that's meant to make it more difficult for unpopular candidates to win elections."
a). Ranked choice voting was never designed to "make it more difficult for unpopular candidates to win elections".
b). Ranked choice voting was specifically designed to "make it easy for unpopular candidates to win elections".
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