Proud Boys Leader Sentenced to 17 Years in Prison Over January 6 Riot
Civil libertarians should decry the tendency to round everything up to terrorism.

For the Proud Boys, the hammer has fallen. Joe Biggs, a leader of the far-right male organization, received a 17-year sentence for his activities during the January 6 Capitol riot in 2021. Enrique Tarrio, the group's chairman, is still awaiting sentencing but was similarly convicted of sedition, conspiracy to obstruct the 2020 election's certification, and other serious crimes earlier this year.
While 17 years constitutes a lengthy prison sentence, it is considerably shorter than what the government requested: Prosecutors wanted 33 years for Biggs. That's in keeping with the government's view that Biggs committed an act of terrorism; the prosecution asked U.S. District Judge Timothy Kelly to apply a terrorism enhancement to the sentence.
"Biggs committed a crime of terrorism on January 6, and the Court should not hesitate to impose a sentence that reflects the seriousness of the crime and its threat to our nation—as reflected in the Sentencing Guidelines," wrote the prosecutors in their sentencing recommendation document.
In court, prosecutors argued that Biggs' actions certainly constituted terrorism because, though January 6 did not involve widespread destruction—exploding buildings, massive casualties—its impact on the nation's collective scarring is like that of a terrorist attack, they said. Assistant U.S. Attorney Jason McCullough argued that the psychological fallout from January 6 is "no different than the act of a spectacular bombing of a building."
The judge quibbled slightly with this argument—accusing prosecutors of "overstat[ing]" their case—but ultimately agreed in principle that "while blowing up a building in some city somewhere is a very bad act… the constitutional moment we were in that day is something that is so sensitive that it deserves a significant sentence."
This does not seem overly scientific. Prosecutors said Biggs committed an act of terrorism akin to blowing up a building and that he should get 33 years in prison. The judge said, Well that's sort of an exaggeration, so… how about half that many years?
Biggs and other January 6 participants undoubtedly committed crimes—vandalism, trespassing, and in some cases, violence against police officers. They should be held accountable for the mayhem that they caused. But prosecutors who implicitly accuse them of staging something along the lines of another 9/11 have gotten over their skis. Many Americans have deep embarrassment over the spectacle of January 6, and rightly so; they do not consider the riot to be anywhere near as serious as a blown-up building.
The government came down extra hard on Biggs because he is a leader of the Proud Boys, and also because he has military training; he should have known, prosecutors argued, that he was in a unique position to actually provoke violence and destruction as he led the crowd to the barricades and tore down parts of the fencing.
Again, he inarguably committed crimes and must face the consequences. But rounding up his actions to terrorism is frankly giving the Proud Boys' plans more credit than they deserve. Broken windows and defiled desks were never going to prevent Joe Biden from taking office. If there was a conspiracy to steal the election, it unfolded in the weeks leading up to January 6, as President Donald Trump and his acolytes allegedly attempted to interfere with electoral processes underway in the states.
What occurred on January 6 was a largely spontaneous burst of property destruction and limited violence that interrupted Congress' certification of the votes—a riot, not a planned insurrection. As Reason's Jacob Sullum wrote when Biggs and Tarrio were first convicted, the term insurrection "implies a level of planning and organization that does not fit the chaotic reality of what happened that day."
Seventeen years is an extremely long time in prison; only the worst of the worst, the most dangerous and irredeemable sort of people, deserve to languish for such a time. It does the country no good to pretend that what transpired on January 6 was a terrorist attack, highly and effectively organized by a paramilitary group, that came within striking distance of actually preventing the peaceful transfer of power.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
police. state.
edit: and I definitely remember for a long stretch of time you & everyone else @Reason being wall-to-wall with "hey Prosecutors, you fucking authoritarians are way over your skis with this bullshit"
Cite of Jacob Sullum saying, well, whatever the hell your word salad is saying he said.
[Disclaimer: Guess I’m not really asking for a cite here because Dillinger’s comment is too incoherent to figure out what he is claiming. Makes it hard to judge whether any cite he gives backs up his claim.]
My mistake. I need a cite for Soave, not Sullum. Sullum wrote the next blog post, not this one.
Here's a cite everyone might enjoy from J6.
The White Knight
January.6.2021 at 5:07 pm
It is now crystal clear Trump is monster. If you still support him, you are a bad person. There is no ambiguity, no wiggle room anymore.
True, but not particularly relevant here.
Do you have a cite for that?
I'm making $90 an hour working from home. I never imagined that it was honest to goodness yet my closest companion is earning 16,000 US dollars a month by working on the connection, that was truly astounding for me, she prescribed for me to attempt it simply. Everybody must try this job now by just using this website... http://www.Payathome7.com
I literally quoted Robby with the "over the skis".
Well, that's crystal clear communication on your part. Somewhere, in someplace not linked to, in some context, Robby Soave said that "you fucking authoritarians are way over your skis with this bullshit".
"But prosecutors who implicitly accuse them of staging something along the lines of another 9/11 have gotten over their skis."
It's THIS article. The one we're commenting on.
I missed it. I admit it.
2020 is but a dream isn’t it?
Can you say, "Show trials?" I knew you could! Just one more battle in the ongoing culture wars. I have yet to see any evidence presented during this guy's trial that they planned an insurrection. John Brown's attack on Harper's Ferry before the Civil War was the closest example from history I could find to this event. Do I dare hope that a similar result will eventually develop this time around?
The Democrats certainly seem to be begging for it a second time. IIRC, they got their asses handed to them last go around.
I'm sure that a civil war between factions where one owns weapons, knows how to use them, and mostly wants to be left alone -- and another that doesn't own weapons, doesn't know how to use them, doesn't want anyone else to own them, and wants to tell everyone what to do -- will go well for the second faction.
I feel a disruption in the force. A generalized feeling of something out of balance and a pervasive sense of unease - as though one is in the presence of a force that is at present controlled, but straining to break through whatever it is that restrains it. It feels like I'm standing next to large copper vessel, half-filled with water, with the lid soldered on tight and no vent or relief valve, that has been set on top of a roaring fire.
And I'm not sure where to go or what to do to escape the presence of this vessel within which the pressure is precipitously rising. People blithely discuss what "is needed" to reverse the course our country has for the past 40 years chosen to take, and I do vote. I'm not sure there really is any longer a majority that supports constitutional limitations on government action and reach into our lives now, and I have less that perfect confidence that even if such a majority exists that their votes counted in the last election, or will count in the next one.
The only thing that prevents this from being a truly depressing situation from which one cannot escape is the fact that as a "boomer", my exposure to what lies unseen around the next corner or two will little affect me, but those who come behind will have a lifetime to enjoy, or regret, the totalitarianism that awaits them at the end of this unicorn and floral decorated primrose path they voluntarily waltz down. Equally depressing is that I see in our future a population that will more than willingly yield their freedoms and allow their neighbors to dictate their lives in exchange for being also able to dictate to their neighbors how they may live.
As I type, I am watching a news report of the ACLU filing suit to force a state to pay for gender reassignment surgery for a convicted murderer who is serving an interminable sentence that prescribes that he will die in prison, and my thoughts are that they can probably find some damn-fool judge who will rule that the state must provide his gender reassignment surgery (and then house him in a women's prison).
And the BEAUTIFUL part is that the dems have set the standard to place politically outspoken and other rioters in prison for sedition and other crimes against the state. Remember, what goes around comes around.
Dems, BLM and Antifa types will never again darken the capital grounds without the possibility of 16 years in prison. That is fine with me.
I didn't see any evidence, either!
Of course, I wasn't in court or sat on the jury which handed down the Guilty verdict. Presumably, they saw the evidence.
Did you know that they present evidence online too? Or do you only believe news reports that corroborate only things you've witnessed, and everything else is a lie? Presuming that the government is running these trials legitimately... Presume away.
The guy you responded to is saying that in his research he came to a different conclusion, your rejoinder is that you're ignorant and you wish he was as well.
What terrorism? I don't think they know what terrorism is.
Mean tweets?
It is definitely not trying to burn down a federal court house for 100 days straight until your political aims are met.
Now that’s just high spirited fun.
And nobody was every caught or prosecuted for that!
https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/portland-man-sentenced-federal-prison-arson-during-protest-multnomah-county-justice#:~:text=PORTLAND%2C%20Ore.,and%20three%20years'%20supervised%20release.
Lol, 15 months. Thanks for showing proof of the dual justice system. Also, no terrorism charge, so another swing and a miss for HO2 man.
How about the two lawyers in New York who were caught throwing Molotov cocktails? Were charges dropped, or reduced to time served?
https://lawandcrime.com/crime/ivy-league-educated-lawyer-who-helped-firebomb-nypd-vehicle-during-racial-justice-protest-sentenced-to-prison/
So, one got a year and one got 15 months. And both disbarred. Judge refused defense plea to reduce sentences.
How come it doesn’t have addenda with facts like this in the MAGA Grievance Database? How much does a subscription to the database cost?
So actual terrorism and they didn't get 2 years in solitary in not a cell
They didn't get the 15-year terrorism enhancement, either, obviously.
Yes, that is true. They committed different crimes in a different jurisdiction and got different sentences, but neither Biggs nor these guys got any sentence enhancement for terrorism (as you pointed out below).
Tulpa? Why are you bringing up Tulpa and his HO2 comment?
Dumb fag is dumb
Poor Dee.
You can’t blame Tulpa for everything.
This definitely wasn't Tulpa. I was definitely all Mike. The snotty self-assurance over something wrong, lawyering the definitions, both sides... pure Mike.
The White Knight 3 years ago
Actually, water would be “hydrogen di-oxide”, not monoxide. Guessing you didn’t ever actually take a chemistry class.
The White Knight 3 years ago
"It’s dihydrogen monoxide"
Actually, I think both technically work.
The White Knight 3 years ago
Okay well I think technically both work in this situation.
The White Knight 3 years ago
Whatever.
The White Knight 3 years ago
First, I wasn’t even wrong, we were both correct in this situation. But yes, I probably should not have been so quick to correct you when we were both right.
The White Knight 3 years ago
I misread what you wrote and accidentally corrected you, then apologized to you. You don’t need to be so harsh.
https://reason.com/2021/01/12/antique-plate-fiestaware-school-evacuation/?comments=true#comment-8695663
Remember when you were pretending that you weren't White Knight?
Mike Laursen
July.31.2021 at 12:03 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
White Knight pointed out, correctly, that you are very logical, but quite unaware that you often engage in not seeking out information that goes against your narratives, garbage-in/garbage-out logic, and not checking your conclusions for basic sanity. You should have listened to White Knight.
Now you're pretending that you were indeed White Knight but your retarded comments were others spoofing you. You're such a joke.
I don’t call him Mike Liarson for nothing.
“Tulpa?”
Yawn. Yet another laursen victimhood narrative.
Just another reason to get Trump back in,
to pardon these guys out.
This is the case where prosecutors used the theory of an unspoken conspiracy as they had no evidence of a conspiracy.
A CI planted an email key to the trial the DA couldn't prove was even read by the PB leader.
So this was the opposite of "jury nullification", eh?
Terrorism is the use of violence for political effect. I don't think it's a stretch of the definition to use that term.
But don't use it if you don't want. Biggs was not proven guilty of committing an act of terrorism. That is just the shorthand, common word for it. If it makes you feel better, just call him a seditious conspirator, because that is what he actually is. He was found guilty of Seditious Conspiracy. Is that *less bad* than terrorism? I think you and the author are both just looking for something new to complain about.
You don't actually think this guy deserves 17 years for this though do you? I mean people get less time for killing someone...while I agree you could define this as 'terrorism' in reality it wasn't all that serious of a case of that. A few years? I could go along with that, but sentencing this guy to 17 years isn't justice imo
“You don’t actually think this guy deserves 17 years for this though do you?”
You underestimate the evil of the people we’re dealing with. They’ll rejoice in the death of their enemies.
Had the judge agreed to apply the terrorism enhancement, he would have got 33 years. So, not terrorism.
Good prove sedisous conspiricy
Convicted defendants often request a new trial. They don't always get one.
In court, prosecutors argued that Biggs' actions certainly constituted terrorism because, though January 6 did not involve widespread destruction—exploding buildings, massive casualties—its impact on the nation's collective scarring is like that of a terrorist attack, they said. Assistant U.S. Attorney Jason McCullough argued that the psychological fallout from January 6 is "no different than the act of a spectacular bombing of a building"
No different than the act of a spectacular bombing of a building, huh?
Sounds like they are only leaving one choice if 17 years is the sentence.
"What if I want to talk about peace and understanding,
but you only understand the language of the sword?"
think of the trauma, to the New York Congressional delegation alone.
How about the choice of 33 years?
RICO the leadership of the FBI, DOJ, DHS, CIA and the speakers office as well as numerous US District Attorneys and Judges. Hold a Nuremberg like tribunal with penalties serious enough that they won't try this again for 100 years.
Will there be woodchippers?
Yes. No jail terms, for fear someone may some day pardon them.
You're still bothering with trials?
C'mon, guys! The courts are all rigged! Don't just type furiously at your keyboards: DO SOMETHING REAL!
Don’t fear the revolt!
(insurrection)!
All our times have come
Here, but now they’re gone
Seasons don’t fear the revolt
Nor do the wind, the sun, or the rain
(We can be like they are)
Come on, baby
(Don’t fear the revolt)
Baby, take my hand
(Don’t fear the revolt)
We’ll be able to fly
Baby, I’m your man
La, la la, la la
La, la la, la la
Valentine is done
Here but now they’re gone
Horst Wessel and Ashli Babbs
Are together in eternity
(Horst Wessel and Ashli Babbitt)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst_Wessel
Horst and Babbs both wanted to grab political power through violence, and got back, what they were dishing out. Karma is a bitch! Live by the sword, die by the sword!
Refute it, bitches!
Poor Brian Sicknick was your Horst Wessel.
Even though he died of totally unrelated causes, Team Blue lied and claimed he was beaten to death by fire extinguishers defending the
ReichstagCapitol, laid him in state in the rotunda, and buried him at Arlington. You then used his death as an excuse to enact a fascist crackdown on dissent.I don't call you a Nazi without reason, Shillsy.
And skipped over the causes of death of the protesters who died during the protest:
1. bullet to the face (1 unarmed protester)
2. cardiopulmonary trauma from tear gas (2 people)
3. apparently natural causes (too much stress?) 2 more people
“bullet to the face (1 unarmed protester)”
That she was unarmed is something you have the privilege of knowing ex post facto. The police officers defending the Speaker’s Lobby had no such knowledge, nor did they know the other rioters were unarmed.
Well that, and the video that showed those officers on her side of the door that didn’t view her as an armed threat.
You’re a real piece of work Mike.
Shoot first, says the true libertarian.
“….. nor did they know the other rioters were unarmed.”
Well then, I reckon they shoulda just kept shooting. Someone really dangerous might have been right behind her!
Didn’t really think that one through, did ya mike?
Only this one?
Having "no knowledge" someone is armed is not a reason to use deadly force, especially from as far away as the murderer was from the small female, who could not be called an imminent physical threat.
Byrd should be in jail, for murder.
One of my goals is to show that power-lusting Trumptards slobber over the prospect of getting MOAH POWAH for themselves, at ANY costs! Ethics, principles, people, law and order, a decent future for most people… ALL can and WILL be sacrificed for MOAH POWAH for Trumpturds!
READ the below and hang your tiny brainless, power-lusting shit-head in SHAME for always taking the side of Trumpanzees, power-luster-pig!
https://www.jpost.com/international/kill-him-with-his-own-gun-dc-cop-talks-about-the-riot-655709 also https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/28/michael-fanone-trump-gop-riots/
‘Kill him with his own gun’ – DC cop talks about Capitol riot
DC Police officer Michael Fanone: I had a choice to make: Use deadly force, which would likely result with the mob ending his life, or trying something else.
“Pro-law-and-order” Trumpturds take the side of trumpanzees going apeshit, making cops beg for their lives! For trying to defend democracy against mobocracy! Can you slime-wads sink ANY lower?!?!
She was attempting to climb though the broken window. She was the first of the rioters crossing a clearly-established line of defense.
I had no idea you had such support for shooting people.
I had no idea you had such support for thwarting democracy and replacing it with a One-Party State, per the mandates of mobocracy and Trumpanzees gone apeshit.
Can you name me just ONE One-Party State that brought lasting peace and prosperity?
They were not "thwarting democracy". They we engaging in political protest for redress of greivances. It may have been violent in parts but still a protest. There was exactly zero chance of them stopping the counting and certification of votes. In a free society, benefit of the doubt goes to the protestors not the government.
"That she was unarmed is something you have the privilege of knowing ex post facto. The police officers defending the Speaker’s Lobby had no such knowledge, nor did they know the other rioters were unarmed."
Unusual seeing you defend a cop in shooting an unarmed person.
Ooh, go for the ad hominem because you cannot counter my argument.
""That she was unarmed is something you have the privilege of knowing ex post facto""
Every cop that shoots someone would love to use that as an excuse.
"That she was unarmed is something you have the privilege of knowing ex post facto. The police officers defending the Speaker’s Lobby had no such knowledge, nor did they know the other rioters were unarmed."
Would you say this if a cop shot a dark-skinned looter during a shopping mall riot?
Yes, and I say yes even though looting doesn't have the extra level of culpability of someone trying to disrupt a highly important democratic process.
The use of lethal force is not justified unless there is reason to believe there was threat to life or limb. Ashli posed no such threat. One cannot presume she was armed, one has to have adequate reason to believe. It doesn't matter if she was "trying to disrupt a highly important democratic process". What matters is whether she was threatening life or limb in the process. She was not. There is a difference between temporarily "disrupting" vs. permanently stopping or preventing. There was exactly zero chance the counting of votes in time for the scheduled inauguration would have been stopped. In a free society, the benefit of the doubt goes to protestors not the government.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/07/theres-word-what-trumpism-becoming/619418/
There’s a Word for What Trumpism Is Becoming
The relentless messaging by Trump and his supporters has inflicted a measurable wound on American democracy.
From above…
“The conversion of Ashli Babbitt into a martyr, a sort of American Horst Wessel, expresses the transformation. Through 2020, Trump had endorsed deadly force against lawbreakers: “When the looting starts, the shooting starts,” he tweeted on May 29, 2020. Babbitt broke the law too, but not to steal a TV. She was killed as she tried to disrupt the constitutional order, to prevent the formalization of the results of a democratic election.”
Well, also Saint Babbitt was unarmed, they say... To this I say...
What utter bullshit! A lion, tiger, or bear charges you, having NO weapons other than their body parts... Just as "un-armed" as Saint Babbitt... Are you, or are you NOT gonna shoot said predator, if you have a gun? If I beat the shit out of you, with my fists, shall I be forgiven, 'cause I was... unarmed?
My GAWD you (Saint Babbitt Worshitters) fascists are illogical!!!
Disrupt? So what? Disrupt is not the same as permanently stop or prevent. There was exactly zero chance the formalization of results before the scheduled inauguration would have been prevented. In a free society, the benefit of the doubt goes to the protestors, not the government.
Was this guy who wasn't even in D.C. on J6?
He was using his psychic powers to overthrow the government.
You don't need to be present to be guilty of seditious conspiracy. Imagine if you could be the mastermind of a crime but couldn't be punished just because you had somebody else do the dirty work for you. It is a crime to convince others to commit crimes or to help plan those crimes.
Imagine if the government lied about everything. Nah, that can’t happen here.
"You don’t need to be
presentinvolved to be guilty of seditious conspiracy."Fixed that for you. A fascist authoritarian state doesn't need reasons to punish dissent.
So you're fine if people plan crimes then get other people to commit them? Cool.
Says right in the blog post above he was leading others in tearing down barricades.
“The government came down extra hard on Biggs because he is a leader of the Proud Boys, and also because he has military training; he should have known, prosecutors argued, that he was in a unique position to actually provoke violence and destruction as he led the crowd to the barricades and tore down parts of the fencing.”
This is the second time today I’ve caught you apparently commenting on something you didn’t bother to read.
[Disclaimer: My comment is directed at Spiritus’ habitual bullshitting, and in no way implies I think Biggs sentence is appropriate. I think it is excessive, thank you for asking.]
Except the DA didn't prove a conspiracy. He ran on an unspoken conspiracy you authoritarian fuck.
Looks like it was Tarrio, see below (I am sure it is a grey box for you). But as usual, your dumbass missed the point. The Dems and their captured DOJ is going to put somebody in jail for more than a decade for a protest for which they weren't even present.
So, you didn’t read my disclaimer, just like you don’t read articles before comment on them.
"it was Tarrio"
It was Tarrio that what?
"see below"
What? You haven't figured out how to get a link to a comment?
Yeah. If you're going to hide behind a mute button, don't demand others do your work for you.
Also, I love how you swallow everything in a Reason article as truth despite their long track record of errors and duplicity, especially regarding J6.
What was my error? You seem to be trying to imply, without explicitly coming out and saying, that Soave’s mistakenly said Biggs was there on January 6th when it was actually Tarrio. It’s hard to tell what you are saying because you are only writing sentence fragments.
Anyway, I can cite several sources that Biggs was there on January 6th:
https://nypost.com/2023/08/31/ex-proud-boys-organizer-joseph-biggs-gets-17-years-in-prison-second-longest-sentence-in-jan-6-capitol-riot-case/
“Federal prosecutors had recommended a 33-year prison sentence for Biggs, who helped lead dozens of Proud Boys members and associates in marching to the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. Biggs and other Proud Boys joined the mob that broke through police lines and forced lawmakers to flee, disrupting the joint session of Congress for certifying the electoral victory by Biden, a Democrat.”
I never said he was or wasn't there dumbass. You have the reading comp of a 2 year old. I said Reason makes errors. I knew there was someone who was charged who wasn't there, and was pointing out the injustice of the J6 kangaroo courts.
Right, I’m the dumbass. If you didn’t know what you were taking about why did you even say anything? And if you were going to say anything why not in complete sentences?
“Right, I’m the dumbass.”
Mike Liarson finally figures it out.
He is so entertaining because he somehow is a perfect blend of righteous intelligence and incredible ignorance. He was so happy to finally be right on something, you guys took all his other J6 narratives away, can't he have anything?
Tarrio was not there on 1/6. Was barred from the city at the time and literally zero evidence places him there.
And good to see you think knocking over a gate is worth 17 years in prison. Seems so very justice-y.
I literally wrote these words: “I think it is excessive, thank you for asking.” Which means you are either intentionally lying about my opinion of Biggs’ sentence or you don’t know how to read.
But the death of the woman who security could have easily apprehended wasn't too excessive?
I think that was Tarrio, and Biggs was the guy that actually was in DC. Not that the sentence is more tolerable due to that.
Jesus, how hard was that?
I know your lot don't like facts, but Spiritass wasted a whole page of innocent pixels just because he couldn't be arsed to look up the difference between Biggs and Tarrio.
And then wouldn’t fess up to it.
He was front and center. He was referred to by other Pride Bois as "The Tip of the Spear".
Thank you for the confirmation. Which means Spiritus Mundi is either mistaken (again) or is trying to gaslight me.
Ha ha, you and sarc still don't know what gaslight means.
You are really showing today that you are full of shit and not interested in truth or serious discussion.
And yet, you still misused gaslight.
Poor Mike is a victim you see.
Maybe if I had fallen for your gaslighting, which I didn’t.
Rofl, glorious!
Says the guy who's even sealioned threads full of citations.
Great summary! 17 years is just way too much penalty for his participation in this riot.
Wasn't he a non-participant in the mostly-not-a-riot?
Am I confused as to which guy we are talking about? Isn't his "crime" that he talked to other people about believing that Trump got cheated out of the election while being involved in "the Proud Boys"?
I didn't follow it - but it didn't sound like he - or anyone else - ever said "let's get all of our people together and go overthrow the US government by violently taking control of the capital building".
“The government came down extra hard on Biggs because he is a leader of the Proud Boys, and also because he has military training; he should have known, prosecutors argued, that he was in a unique position to actually provoke violence and destruction as he led the crowd to the barricades and tore down parts of the fencing.”
That is not non-participation.
His position doesn’t sound that unique, except for the part about being in a target group (i.e. exercising his right of free assembly).
People who have been in the military are expected to know what actions will incite a riot? To what standard are police officers held on presumed knowledge, when they do something wrong, pray tell?
I quoted the entire paragraph because Biggs’ name is mentioned only at the start of it, but the relevant part for my argument is “as he led the crowd to the barricades and tore down parts of the fencing”. That is the part where he clearly participated.
The judge's critique of him consists of things you should do if you dispute an election.
Trump and his people are being criminally charged for doing precisely what the judge said to do.
Got it. You are incapable of focusing in on a single point.
Much as the trees blind you to the forest, my man.
I am pretty sure all of the proud boys were at some monument when the barricades were first breached. They had just met up after having lunch.
Not sure about this dude - I remember the bit about the monument from the hearings where they tried to say the Proud Boys led the attack and succeeded in demonstrating that they were apparently not even all that interested in heading over there.
So, like Spiritus, why not go refresh your memory instead of posting your “I’m pretty sure I remember…” comments here?
as he led the crowd to the barricades and tore down parts of the fencing.”
If this unprecedented action isn't worthy of a 17 year prison sentence for terrorism, I don't know what is.
I didn’t follow it – but it didn’t sound like he – or anyone else – ever said “let’s get all of our people together and go overthrow the US government by violently taking control of the capital building”.
Those were the FBI plants, but this guy didn't text back saying "No" so he basically came up with the whole idea himself and forced everyone else to participate.
Capitol, not capital.
It's very hard to take seriously comments from anyone who years later still hasn't figured out that the building in Washington, D.C. is called the "Capitol".
Talk-to-text is a positive boon to a fussy pettifogging sealion like you, isn’t it? You get to handwave points away as ignorance because their cellphone used the wrong spelling for a homophone.
"Talk-to-text is a positive boon to a fussy pettifogging sealion like you, isn’t it? You get to handwave points away as ignorance because their cellphone used the wrong spelling for a homophone."
Grammar Nazis are artifacts from the pre-smartphone era.
It’s even more hard to take seriously a person who has no morality.
Big talk from someone who constantly malappropriates gaslight.
You are shameless. I’ve kicked your ass in several debates today.
Weird definition of ass-kicking.
You sealion, he cites, you lie about it or shift the goalposts and ta-dah! Mike claims to win another.
Lol, did your mom tell you that?
Congratulations, you’ve proven yourself a troll with nothing interesting to add to discussions. Muting you now. Bye bye.
"Biggs and other January 6 participants undoubtedly committed crimes..."
Not only is there doubt, at this point I figure this Biggs guy is as likely to have gotten a guided tour escorted by the cops as he is to have actually committed a crime.
Not only that, but the main participant (Epps) is being protected by the government and by the press.
Not that there is a difference between the two anymore.
Yelling "We need to GO INTO THE CAPITAL! Everyone GO INTO THE CAPITAL!!" to a large group of people outside the capital is clearly not a problem, nor is directing people to attack police manning the barriers and to pull down the barriers.
But not going to the capital while being the head of an organization that didn't actually do anything at the point of the capital breach is the same thing as assassinating the president.
Just lay back and experience the ultimate result of living in a banana republic.
Ultimately it all comes around, over and over again.
That’s why it’s called a revolution!
PS Cyto, everyone knows he was not as bad as a president killer, he's just half as bad as the 9/11 attacks.
/Sarc
Except you can't just assert that a defendant "undoubtedly committed crimes," you have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Er, isn't that what the prosecutor in the Biggs case just did?
Civil libertarians should decry the tendency to round everything up to terrorism.
Don’t worry, only behavior that Democrats don’t approve of is rounded up to “terrorism”. Burning down numerous black owned businesses isn’t terrorism, because that’s just part of the BLM struggle. Feet on Pelosi’s desk, however, is practically equivalent to 9/11.
I can't believe the idiot dems that not only compared J6 to 9/11 but wasn't it Pelosi (I don't remember exactly but there's probably a few that did this) that said J6 was actually worse than 9/11? Pretty tough to take anyone seriously that'd say something so stupid not to mention disrespectful of all the Americans that lost their lives that day
Have you tried telling niggers why they shouldn't burn down black owned businesses?
Chris Rock was right
"It does the country no good to pretend that what happened on Jan. 6 was a terrorist attack..."
It is, however, a very useful political narrative for the Democrats and their media lackeys.
Fundraising gold right there. Also, free license to go after one's political opponents in the courts!
It's really the gift that keeps on giving.
Almost as good as a subscription to the Jelly of the Month Club.
Terrorism has too many negative connotations. Let's just call it by its proper name: Seditious Conspiracy.
Sadly; Seditious would require a Constitutional government; none of which is to be found.
The Reichstag fire worked well for the Nazis.
And Hitler acted similarly to Biden towards his political foes.
Now there's halfway-terrorist prison charges for psychological claims? Good grief; what will be next? The Salem witch-hunts?
What goes around comes around. Feeding Christians to lions might be next on the turntable of history.
Often, imaginary offenses can be used in propping up the conservative victimhood narrative.
[Disclaimer: This comment in now way implies I have pro-liberal sympathies. I don't.]
"This comment in now way implies I have pro-liberal sympathies. I don’t."
I know. You're a big-government corporatist dancing on the edge of authoritarian fascism. You're anything but a classical liberal.
Get out!
Seems like the conservative victimhood narrative doesn't need much propping up today.
It always needs propping up.
17 years! Holy shit.
I'll only be 72!
I'd be almost sixty.
He should have just gotten pissed and burned down some of the local residential neighborhood. I understand that is mostly peaceful.
Mostly peaceful:
- Capitol Hill Autonomous (rape) Zone
- Attacking the White House, forcing the evacuation of the president, setting fire to an historic church
- 2017 Inauguration Day riots, torching cars, attacking police stations and government buildings
- Attacking the Senate, stopping the Supreme Court confirmation process
- Occupying State capitols, stopping business
- Burning down a court house
Deadly Insurrection:
- Sitting at home but encouraging protest and dissent against Democrats
Threats to democracy: Protesting for election integrity, strengthening voter ID laws, insisting on following the rules established in advance of the election.
Not threats to democracy: Censoring bad publicity on one candidate’s family, allowing ballot harvesting, weakening or waiving signature matching requirements on mail-in ballots, seeking annual indictments against one candidate until finding something that sticks.
"Mostly peaceful:
– Capitol Hill Autonomous (rape) Zone"
Imagine a scenario where a conservative group storms in, takes over a section of a downtown major city, declares it separate and sovereign from the state it is in, and makes their own laws/rules, complete with MAGA banners.
Imagine how quickly the state would have them mowed down, thrown in jail, and made an example of for anyone thinking to do it again.
Then look at hwo they treated actual CHAZ/CHOP participants...they basically had their fun party, raped and killed a bunch of people, and no bigs
Yeah, we know --- for a fact --- people were murdered in there.
Nobody, at all, is being punished.
...but dare to knock over a barrier and, hoo boy...
As far as I know, nothing happened to those that actually knocked over barriers. It's like they were working for the government.
But coming in after the provocateurs opened the way. and they throw the book at you. Or don't come in, but have the wrong politics...
Always, always with the deflection.
100-Times better than projection; where the left will blame anyone, even the very victim, for exactly what they themselves are doing.
Freman example?
So, how many of the mostly peaceful protesters burning down police stations, federal court houses, downtown businesses, and police cars, and setting up autonomous zones (i.e., seceding) and keeping out emergency services, were sentenced to 17 years in federal prison? How many were arrested and held without trial for a year, or forced to forgo social media and take a loyalty oath as a condition of parole?
How many mostly peaceful unarmed protesters were shot in the face by police, and if one had been, how many cities would have been burned to the ground?
How many of those protestors were smart enough to wear masks and not post videos of themselves to social media. Way more than the moronic January 6th MAGA rioters.
[Disclaimer: This is not a defense of any rioting. I condemn it all, no matter who does it.]
Look, you can't expect people to be prosecuted for locking police in a building and setting it on fire..... that's just crazy talk. What are you, some sort of white supremacist?
listen, they had just heard some random guy they didn't know who assaulted and threatened the life of a pregnant woman and was a drugged out violent criminal, was killed in an encounter with police while drugged out of his mind.
Of course they had to burn the city down! (oh also, they have the same skin color)
What specific incident are you referring to?
So if there's a next time, do the participants just say "in for a penny, in for a pound"? Given the level of security, if they had real intentions to overthrow the government, the Proud Boys could have done a lot more with a hundred armed men. And if you're going to be a terrorist no matter what you do, then maybe you go all the way, because what do you have to lose?
I sincerely do not believe that the folks in the FBI and at the DNC would be at all upset by that outcome.
I mean, the FBI guys who were encouraging people to break into the building probably would have gone further and actually killed someone if the op had called for it.
Wear masks and be heavily armed. Burn down the city.
They will pay you after the fact, going with DC precedent.
Did you miss the part where the judge declined to add 15 years to Biggs' sentence, because he didn't agree that the terrorism enhancement was justified?
So, yes, there is indeed "more to lose" if you engage in "terrorism".
Every day I awaken and think, "It can't get any worse today." By day's end, it has gotten worse. There is no happy ending to this story. Fortunately, I'm almost 84 years old and won't be around to see the wheels come off. But come off they most assuredly will.
Lucky.
The only thing I look forward to is the fact that useful tools like Laursen, Jeff, Sarc and Pluggo will end up in the exact same camps as the rest of us.
I still find it fucked up that Biden can’t bring himself to pardon the idiot group of that day. The horn guy and that ilk. Not the Proud Boy ilk. The pardon power was INTENDED for situations like this not for pardoning corrupt friends. From Federalist 78 on why the pardon power exists and is so generous/unilateral to the president only.
the principal argument for reposing the power of pardoning in this case to the Chief Magistrate is this: in seasons of insurrection or rebellion, there are often critical moments, when a welltimed offer of pardon to the insurgents or rebels may restore the tranquillity of the commonwealth; and which, if suffered to pass unimproved, it may never be possible afterwards to recall. The dilatory process of convening the legislature, or one of its branches, for the purpose of obtaining its sanction to the measure, would frequently be the occasion of letting slip the golden opportunity.
We continually elect assholes and seem to prefer that character attribute in our Prezs. I think it’s sad how far we have fallen (and can’t get up)
That's because your a retard fed plant and Noone believes your bs
Why do you have this insane belief that Biden is a good man or a decent man? He's a vain crook whose family has been stealing money to have him help their friends for decades.
Biden is a fascist. End of story.
Biden issued a blanket pardon for 6500 people convicted of simple pot possession. That seems like an easy no-brainer - but previous Prez's didn't do that - and when Biden did it govs did their usual bs 'soft on crime' shtick for partisan purposes.
I'm sure you don't give a shit about pardons.
He just pardoned them so they can live off of the taxpayers and vote for the party of free sh*t.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/briefing-room/2022/04/21/president-biden-releases-national-drug-control-strategy-to-save-lives-expand-treatment-and-disrupt-trafficking/
So, simultaneously, I am hearing that liberal rioters weren’t punished severely enough, but conservative rioters are owed a pardon.
This is blatant team sports.
No one is owed anything. That Federalist78 – written by James Madison who kind of understood the Constitution – excerpt indicates why pardons exist and who should be pardoned.
Presidents should not get any kudos for pardoning their friends and cronies. Or pardoning people in onesies and twosies in order to get some favorable political press.
Their job – and the massive power they inherently wield – means that they should be pardoning those who oppose them. Rather than using the power of the state to crush their enemies into the dust like any run of the mill authoritarian.
But hey – you go ahead and play your fucking DeRp games.
"you go ahead and play your fucking DeRp games"
Well, that's projection for ya.
He's not saying they are owed a pardon, he's saying that a pardon would be better for the country. And he's probably right. If Biden had any interest in making peace among the political factions, or uniting the country, it's exactly what he should do.
So, simultaneously, I am hearing that liberal rioters weren’t punished severely enough, but conservative rioters are owed a pardon.
What you are hearing is that group A committed Crime X and got light to no punishment while group B, who committed lesser crimes than Crime X, has gotten harsh punishment.
Further, in cases where people group both groups A and B committed the exact same crimes, those from group A got little to no punishment, while those in group B began getting harsh punishment even before they were tried.
Don't know what any of that has to do with Joe Biden's history of pardons. So far, he has given nine pardons, most of which are related to drug crimes, and none of which, as far as I know, has any angle related to rioting.
Your comment, nor JFree’s was about Biden’s history of pardons.
Come on, man.
It is mostly a political prosecution. If he had supported Biden he would have gotten 6 months suspended sentence and released on time served. Just America has fallen under the Biden administration.
I guess we can all just make up whatever counterfactuals we want and believe in them like they actually happened.
They were smart enough to post it all on Social Media so everyone knows it DID happen.
I am producing 88 US dollars per-day to complete a few l services on the laptop.. I certainly did not believe that it'd be achievable , however one of my best pals collected 25,000 US dollars in five weeks by doing this job & she convinced me to join…
Explore extra updates by reaching this article >>> https://jobclub01.blogspot.com/
Glossing over treason. Good stuff Robby. Just because they're incompetent, doesn't mean they're not guilty. GOP LOLZ
The message being sent with the show trials and political prosecution is a very dangerous one, and doesn't often end well.
Trump is looking better every day, but at this point I might vote for him solely for J6 pardons.
No problems can possibly come from letting half of the country know that they are not going to be treated equally, no matter what.
I bet it'll make things like peaceful surrender to authorities super, duper easy.
Trump is looking better every day? His sanity is disintegrating in front of our eyes in increasingly deranged videos and “truths” on a daily basis.
"His sanity is disintegrating in front of our eyes" lol.... Huh; sounds like a Biden problem to me.
Even though I don't like him, I'm seriously thinking of voting for Trump over the Libertarian, for whom I usually vote, as a protest against political prosecution by the Democrats.
How comfortable the fucking Democrats have become with using the justice system to destroy their political enemies.
Yep, you'd be a sucker to bother to vote in a rigged election.
Move straight to armed revolution. That's the ticket!
Did you drag that strawman all the way from home, or find it on your way here, lefty shit?
It's amazing how fragile the Liberals think the US government's method of succession is.
They were violently invading the Capitol building during the very session of Congress that handed power from one administration to the next. No amount of trying to gloss over it will make that egregious crime go away.
There was no possible scenario where the election was not certified and power not transferred. It would have been even less so had any actual violence been done to any members of congress. Of course crimes were committed and there are people who should be punished. But there was never any threat to "democracy" from the days events.
They were violently invading the Capitol building during the very session of Congress that handed power from one administration to the next
They were protesting during the certification of the electoral votes.
The transfer of power, the ACTUAL transfer of power occurs on January 20th.
Hey man... Don't stomp on our J6 narrative with facts and all. /s 🙂
They were rioting, not merely protesting.
And the certification of the electoral votes is part of the process of transfering power.
But you know all that.
Do you have a cite that all of the hundreds of people arrested or tried were engaged in rioting or acts of violence?
Funny. The video's didn't look very "violently invading" to me.
Course; Only the left has prescription glasses-of-imaginations that only they themselves can see things through that no one else can.
Ya know; Like a weapon of mass destruction and murder that everyone thought they saw as just a tossed fire extinguisher.
TDS-addled shit-pile Soave can't seem to spell "protest".
Fuck off and die, asshole.
Pro-democracy protest.
Weren't there previous sit-ins in Congress? What sentences did they get?
Yeah, but scores of people weren't murdered during those.
How many years did Ray Epps get?