From 'Fetus' to 'Unborn Child': Ohio Adopts Biased Ballot Summary of Abortion Amendment
Plus: First Amendment experts talk about age verification laws, fentanyl fact check, and more…

Biased changes to ballot language spur lawsuit. Ohio Republicans failed in an attempt to doom an abortion rights ballot initiative by changing the threshold of votes needed for it to pass. Now, Ohio Secretary of State Frank LaRose—who said the attempt was "100 percent" about thwarting the abortion measure—has a new tack to stack the deck against it: using highly charged and potentially misleading ballot language.
Backers of the measure are, in turn, suing over the LaRose-approved ballot summary.
The measure, dubbed Issue 1, will be put to Ohio voters this fall and would amend the Ohio Constitution to make explicit that the state protects reproductive freedom.
It would add a "Right to Reproductive Freedom" section to the Ohio Constitution, stating that "every individual has a right to make and carry out one's own reproductive decisions, including but not limited to decisions on: contraception; fertility treatment; continuing one's own pregnancy; miscarriage care; and abortion. The State shall not, directly or indirectly, burden, penalize, prohibit, interfere with, or discriminate against either: an individual's voluntary exercise of this right or a person or entity that assists an individual exercising this right" unless it "demonstrates that it is using the least restrictive means to advance the individual's health in accordance with widely accepted and evidence-based standards of care."
The proposed amendment goes on to say that the state could still ban abortion "after fetal viability" (defined as "the point in a pregnancy when, in the professional judgment of the pregnant patient's treating physician, the fetus has a significant likelihood of survival outside the uterus"). However, post-viability bans could not apply in situations where "the pregnant patient's treating physician" deems an abortion necessary "to protect the pregnant patient's life or health."
Backers of the amendment proposed putting its full text on the ballot. That seems like it should be pretty uncontroversial, no? When it comes to something as weighty as amending the state's constitution, it's good to give voters all of the context and facts.
But in a 3-2 vote last week, the Ohio Ballot Board—which contains LaRose as a member—rejected the idea that this fall's ballots should include the amendment's full text. Instead, they opted for summary language submitted by LaRose's office.
The summary text characterizes the bit about post-viability bans and their exceptions by saying the amendment would "always allow an unborn child to be aborted at any stage of pregnancy, regardless of viability, if, in the treating physician's determination the abortion is necessary to protect the pregnant woman's life or health."
It uses the phrase unborn child instead of fetus.
It leaves off any mention of specific reproductive rights other than abortion, omitting the amendment's references to contraception, fertility treatments, continuing a pregnancy, and miscarriage care.
Instead of saying that the amendment would restrict "the State"—defined in the proposed amendment as "any governmental entity and any political subdivision"—from interfering with reproductive freedom, it says it would block "the citizens of the State of Ohio" from doing so.
And instead of saying the amendment would give Ohioans the "right to make and carry out one's own reproductive decisions," it says it would guarantee the right to one's own "reproductive medical treatment." Backers of the amendment suggest this change falsely implies that the amendment would make the state provide and fund abortions.
The new language "is blatantly misleading and purposefully inaccurate," asserted Rep. Elliot Forhan (D–South Euclid).
"The entire summary is propaganda," said Ohioans United for Reproductive Rights co-chair Lauren Blauvelt.
LaRose is "the public servant responsible for conducting free and fair elections in Ohio" but he's "playing dirty to win. It's wrong," opined journalist Marilou Johanek in the Ohio Capital Journal.
LaRose called the new language "fair and accurate."
The Ohio Ballot Board is supposed to be a neutral arbiter of ballot language. But before voting on the language, board member and state Sen. Theresa Gavarone made it clear that she's anything but neutral. "This is a dangerous amendment that I'm going to fight tirelessly against," she said.
"Gavarone also claimed, as anti-abortion groups throughout the state do as well, that the amendment is 'an assault on parental rights,'" but "neither the amendment nor the summary approved by the board mention parental rights of any kind," notes the Ohio Capital Journal. "The senator continued her comments during the board meeting, saying the true nature of the amendment 'is hidden behind overly broad language,' despite the fact that the board summary took out pieces of the full text."
This week, Ohioans United for Reproductive Rights filed a lawsuit challenging the proposed ballot summary, calling it "irreparably flawed" and aimed at misleading Ohioans into voting no on the proposal. The group is asking the Ohio Supreme Court to order the board "to reconvene and adopt the full text of the Amendment as the ballot language" or, alternatively, to "adopt ballot language that properly and lawfully describes the Amendment."
FREE MINDS
First Amendment experts discuss age-verification laws. In a new panel discussion hosted by the Woodhull Freedom Foundation, First Amendment lawyers Lawrence Walters and Bob Corn-Revere have a wide-ranging discussion about age-verification laws, regulation of social media, and Woodhull's case against FOSTA:
R Street Institute's Shoshana Weissmann has been doing a series of columns about age-verification proposals. Her latest looks at how VPNs render enforcement impossible.
FREE MARKETS
Reminder: We can't drug war our way out of fentanyl overdoses…
If you know that the DEA seized enough fentanyl last year to kill every American you should understand the impossibility of ending drug overdoses by stopping the supply of fentanyl. The drug war created the incentives that brought us street fentanyl. Interdiction can't stop it. https://t.co/jLLdHwZOAK
— Conor Friedersdorf (@conor64) August 30, 2023
… and most fentanyl entering the U.S. is coming through legal ports of entry, not being smuggled over the U.S.-Mexico border. Reason's Fiona Harrigan noted this last year:
Despite the idea's sticking power in certain circles, it's inaccurate to say that undocumented immigrants crossing an open border are chiefly responsible for fentanyl arriving at the country's doors. In reality, U.S. citizens carrying the drug through legal ports of entry are primarily to blame.
U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) has reported an upward trend in fentanyl seizures over the past few years. From 2,800 pounds seized in FY 2019, CBP seized 11,200 pounds of fentanyl in FY 2021 and 12,900 pounds in FY 2022 through the end of August.
Seizures conducted by two distinct bodies within CBP combine to yield those numbers. The first, the Office of Field Operations (OFO), enforces immigration and customs laws at ports of entry—points where someone may lawfully enter the United States. The second is U.S. Border Patrol, which intercepts undocumented individuals and illegally imported goods between those ports of entry.
The vast majority of fentanyl seized in recent years has been obtained by the OFO, not Border Patrol. The drug was mainly seized from smugglers at legal ports of entry, not illegal border crossings. OFO seizures amounted to 2,600 pounds in 2019 (93 percent of the total fentanyl seized by CBP), 4,000 pounds in 2020 (83 percent), 10,200 pounds in 2021 (91 percent), and 10,900 pounds so far in 2022 (84 percent). The Drug Enforcement Agency confirms the port trend, saying that "the most common method employed [by Mexican cartels] involves smuggling illicit drugs through U.S. [ports of entry] in passenger vehicles with concealed compartments or commingled with legitimate goods on tractor-trailers."
QUICK HITS
• "The Environmental Protection Agency removed federal protections for a majority of the country's wetlands on Tuesday to comply with [the] recent U.S. Supreme Court ruling" in Sackett v. EPA, NPR reports. (More on the Sackett case from Reason's Ronald Bailey.)
• Journalist Stephen Lemons brings us updates from jury selection in the Backpage trial:
Court recessed till tomorrow in #Backpagetrial in federal court in Phoenix. They're doing individual voir dire of jurors now. So far they've only gone through 10, leaving 100 to go. 1/ https://t.co/vXGOeLEKhw
— Stephen Lemons (@stephenlemons) August 30, 2023
• Baton Rouge, Louisiana, is facing allegations that police tortured people brought to a facility known as the "Brave Cave" for arrest processing.
• Economists are worried about mid-size cities experiencing a "commercial real estate apocalypse."
• Los Angeles officials want to make it more difficult for RV owners to rent out their spaces.
• Alabama is set to try out a new, untested execution method.
• A 12-year-old student in Colorado Springs was removed from class for having a Gadsden flag patch on his backpack.
• "Do students have privacy rights when it comes to their parents?" asks the Los Angeles Times.
• Rick Perry makes the conservative case for psychedelic medicine.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
From 'Fetus' to 'Unborn Child'
I thought we settled on Clump of Cells.
"It's not fair, playing word games is our trick. Don't copy"
It's only dishonest and unfair when your political opposition does it.
Well, this is obviously unfair regardless of any whataboutism. Citizens exercising their democratic rights get a measure on a ballot and in a second attempt to thwart them, anti-democratic officials reword the measure that the citizens want, to make passage less likely.
Clear enough, and I don't give a shit whether the citizens are Democrats or Republicans, and likewise the officials.
measure that the citizens want,
Oddly stated before citizens can vote on it. But it is what leftists want so shut up and save democracy by doing what they want.
Are you asserting the left never does this through their ballot writeups? Because I can point you to examples.
"The citizens", i.e., the citizens who drafted the measure.
Are you asserting the left never does this through their ballot writeups?
No. And I think I made my position clear when I said, "I don’t give a shit whether the citizens are Democrats or Republicans, and likewise the officials."
Lol. Nice attempt at a walk back on a clear affirmative assertion.
What "clear affirmative assertion" did I make concerning leftists, Democrats or Republicans? Use my actual words, not what you think I said.
And when you asked me about whether I was asserting that leftists didn't engage in similar practices, I answered with a clear and unambiguous "no".
Viability is a term that applies to all living things. It means the ability to continue living.
It doesn’t include being ripped from the environment that your body biologically requires for survival.
That we have changed and assigned that meaning to only unborn children is how we try to justify our genocide against them.
Abortion is responsible for the murder of over 60 million helpless innocent unborn human beings in the US alone. It is the greatest genocide in earths history.
Any place or person that allows it does not value the inalienable right to life.
There is no constitutional right to abortion.
Word games.
“Killing” somebody isn’t a “reproductive right”
How do we call an egg viable until it becomes a person?
Amen.
[Disclaimer: this is in no way a support of every Democrat narrative or talking point despite Mike only agreeing with democrat narratives. ]
Here's a thought experiment. Is White Mike capable of disagreeing with a Democratic Party talking point in any substantive way? Like "I firmly oppose X". Will he explode if he does?
Every time he claims to, if you press him, you find out that he actually approves of the policy and is just criticizing its presentation or implementation.
Here’s a thought experiment. Is Mother's Lament or JesseAz capable of disagreeing with a Republican Party talking point in any substantive way? Like “I firmly oppose X”. Will they explode if they do?
Every time they claim to, if you press them, they call you names.
So, is this really you, Sarc, or is it a spoof using #1167720?
I'm making $90 an hour working from home. I never imagined that it was honest to goodness yet my closest companion is earning 16,000 US dollars a month by working on the connection, that was truly astounding for me, she prescribed for me to attempt it simply. Everybody must try this job now by just using this website... http://www.Payathome7.com
"Our voters are too dumb to understand words! Wahh!"
Translation: “I’m happy with this particular manipulation of elections because it will benefit my team.”
[Disclaimer: Not an endorsement of election manipulation by Democrats. I am against anyone, regardless of party, manipulating or abusing the election process.]
[Disclaimer: Mike will only make these arguments when a republican does it. He will remain silent and defend against attacks when democrats do it.]
Mike is also too dumb to notice that the democrats already did the thing he is complaining about with the wording they chose, being intentionally vague. And he supports that as seen below.
They did it in the very title of the legislation.
Calling killing, of the product of reproduction, "reproductive freedom".
Last I checked, being killed is the opposite of freedom.
THIS is why all disease-causing bacteria, viruses, and protist pathogens need to HAVE THEIR LIVES RESPECTED!!! Because Retarded Fire said so!
(AND because God talked to Retarded Fire, and God said so, too! God reports to Retarded Fire, if ye look closely, and NOT vice versa!)
You know it will change the outcome how exactly?
The pro-aborts proposed amendment is their Final Solution to the Fetus Question in Ohio.
One can always count on cunts like Mickey Rat to make such disgusting remarks.
Honesty is hateful to the progressive.
Okay, explain how Team SRG isn't enacting a Final Solution on fetuses. They're killed with a chemical solution or ripped apart, and the bodies that aren't used in medical experiments, are incinerated in furnaces. Sure sounds familiar to me.
Is it different because you're only killing the bad ones? They might grow up to be criminals? You're reducing the levels of crime? Totally not eugenics arguments by the way.
Team SRG isn't doing it, doctors are doing it for perfectly valid reasons, at the request of mothers or potential mothers. See full details at http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/#_Toc117957739 ...
Mammary-Farter-Fuhrer, WHY are ye aligned with "Lying Lothario"? Because You Perfectly want humans to de-evolve back into elephant-seal-like BEASTS, harem-fighting over the womb-enslaved women? To see who can LIE the most, to the fertile women, and womb-enslave more of them than the next "Lying Lothario"?
We could never be elephant seal-like beasts as we're primates, you stupid rodent. We might be more like gorillas or chimpanzees.
Shitsy's hardly a rodent--he's a dog, because he likes to eat his own poop.
Mengele was a doctor, so were the doctors that ran the Tuskegee Study, and the doctors at Unit 731.
History is littered with evil doctors doing evil things. Incidentally the butchers running your baby abattoirs are all Democrats, so your point is moot.
Nice attempt at an Appeal to Authority though.
Mammary-necrophilia-Farter-Fuhrer condemns "eugenics arguments", but LOVES to tell "political enemies" to commit suicide! STUPID and EVIL Perfect Bitch, what do You do to yell at the women seeking abortions at the clinic? "Do NOT abort, PLEASE! I PROMISE you to help you out, AFTER you raise your kid all alone... If he or she turns out to be of the WRONG political persuasion, I will tell them to commit suicide!"
Fucking evil Perfect Bitch is SOOOO smug, She can NOT see Her Own Evil and hypocrisy! Blind fool!
So MoLa and Mickey Rat are comparing the Holocaust with abortion. Cunts, both of them.
More whinging from a death cultist.
20 million dead African American babies is 3 times the number of Jewish people killed in the Holocaust and 5 times as many as the Ukrainians killed in the Holodomor.
That’s just one demographic. So no, you’re the cunt, bruv.
The pro-abortion CHOICE amendment is their effort in an ongoing fight against womb slavery, so as to preserve individual freedoms!
In other words, stop doing what every placental mammal, including squirrels, does.
No other animals practice surgery or advanced medicine, use tooth paste, use energy conversion devices ("engines"), or conduct agriculture to include selective breeding of plants and animals. So ALL of these things are "unnatural", and should be OUTLAWED, according to EVIL blithering idiots!
So due to all of that, we should change how we have offspring?
Sqrlsy may love The Science, but he's not too fond of biology.
I've noticed that from progressives/Marxists and Democrats over the years. They love "The Science", but not actual scientific inquiry, debate, nor actual research.
"So due to all of that, we should change how we have offspring?"
The fucking ROYAL WE should (collectively) decide NOTHING! Besides national defense, which side of the road to drive on, and such, where there's not much choice. WOMB OWNERS SHOULD DECIDE ON MATTERS REGARDING THEIR OWN WOMBS! Now WHY is this SOOOOO damned difficult??!? What next, do you want the fucking ROYAL WE to decide for us all, what we shall collectively eat for breakfast tomorrow?
There's very much a "we" about it, Sqrlsy. Unless you've figured out a way for humans to reproduce asexually, it still takes a man and woman (yes, two different and distinct sexes) to create a new human.
So, InsaneKarenLogic, THIS is your UDDERLY PATHETIC excuse to BUTT IN between a man (optionally included, unless he is "Lying Lothario" or some other flavor of irresponsible woman-disrespecting asshole), a woman, and her doctor? Because it is a "we"? Men and women also make career, relocation, and house-buying decisions between themselves... You want to throw your Perfectly Self-Righteous Ring-Wing Wrong-Nut BIG FAT TOTALITARIAN ASSHOLE in there ass well? WHY must ye be SUCH a smug-nut? Is your real last name Buttinsky or Nosenheimer, perhaps?
You guys must be Pro-lifers, uh, I mean, Anti-Abortionists. I hope my biased word definition shift doesn't confuse anyone about what is at stake.
What's next, Affirming non-life care for prenatal uterine partners?
[Disclaimer: Mike is an obvious leftist. So liberals playing word games with good intentions is fine. But Republicans doing so is a culture war and wrong.]
Has sockasmic given up on his pathetic trolling of you guys, or has he drunk himself to death? Have not seen him around the last couple of days.
I think when he created the account he got logged out of his original and can’t remember the password.
He probably was either too drunk to remember the password, or did it when he was drunk, and therefore cannot remember the password. Either way, he's probably passed out drunk.
His password is obviously TheOneTrueL1bertarian
That online poll told him so!
I'm not sure who it is, but I only have one person muted and it's whoever was doing all the name changing the other day. So far, they've posted in this roundup and in one of the other news posts today under the name Mother's Lament.
It doesn't really bother me too much, because it tells me that I've really gotten to one of those evil fucks.
This. California words every single ballot to make the progressives sound better than they are. Reason is fine with that
Dammit, I was going to make a similar joke. Oh well, you snooze you lose.
People who are pro-life think “abortion” has always deceptively euphemistic. Yet abortion advocates been able to run with that for nearly a century instead of “termination of life of a fetus.”
If you want to criticize the word games, it’s worth calling out both sides for doing. People routinely say “reproductive freedom” instead of “right to an abortion,” and they also have an organized named “Planned Parenthood,” instead of “Organized Fetus Removal.”
Toying with the language is an ongoing political football in this issue.
“Toying with the language is an ongoing political football in this issue.”
Absolutely. Activists on both sides of the abortion issue use manipulative language.
Having said that, “fetus” is the word used in the petition that all the voters signed to put the measure on the ballot.
[Disclaimer: Offered in the spirit of “both sides”.]
But the citizens aren’t the ones who ultimately get to decide how the ballot initiatives are written.
Maybe that should change?
And if those voters would not have signed a petition that said “unborn child,” that might be kind of telling. The petition itself probably played word games to get support for passage.
We need not jump in at Step Five and pretend that’s the first place someone started using language to frame the issue in their favor.
"Unborn child" was not the language on the petition. "Fetus" was.
I'm not interested in discussing counterfactuals on some alternative timeline.
Why do you refuse to accept that those terms are indistinguishable?
A human fetus is without question an unborn child. The word unborn signifies that it has not yet been proven to be viable. Even if it is premature, at birth it becomes just 'a child'.
And you could call a fetus an "unborn teenager", but that, too, would be silly.
At birth it becomes a teenager?
I merely pointed out to you that if the petition itself was playing word games, you’re in favor of sticking to the word games necessary to achieve the goals of those who framed the petition.
I don’t think that’s a principled position you could adhere to if you disagreed with the purpose of the petition and thought it was dishonestly framed. “Well, we have to keep using this language instead of honest framing because that’s the petition the voters signed.”
If you accept that this a “both sides” case, how come you’re only in favor of one side getting the benefit?
It is a principled position I would stick to: either print the petition in full, or don’t vary the wording in any significant way in the ballot summary. Period.
Do you believe there is a significant difference between a fetus and an unborn child?
Absolutely there's a huge, vital difference: whether the mother is holding her thumb up or her thumb down.
“If you accept that this a “both sides” case, how come you’re only in favor of one side getting the benefit?”
Because he’s more sympathetic to one side. Which I would respect if he could just admit it.
Everywhere I go I see walking talking driving clumps of cells.
The Sixth Euphemism
I usually hope people will take it as a dysphemism.
"Everywhere I go I see walking talking driving clumps of cells."
Some clumps of cells are more equal than others!
QUESTIONS THAT THE FANATICS WON’T EVER ANSWER: What do YOU think that the punishment should be for deliberately killing a fertilized human egg cell? Ditto the punishments for likewise killing a fertilized egg of an ape... A monkey... A rat... An insect... If your Righteous Punishments From on High are DIFFERENT in these cases, then WHY? WHERE do the differences come from? And what gives YOU (or the 51% of the voters) the right to punish the rest of us?
Never, ever, have I gotten any serious answers, when I pose these questions, about what the PUNISHMENTS should be! (Could it be that the fanatics don’t want us to focus on THEIR obsession, which is their smug and self-righteous “punishment boners”?). Also, the unwillingness to answer questions is strongly indicative of authoritarianism. At the root here is the unmistakable attitude of “Because I said so, peons! Do NOT question your Rulers!”
http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/#_Toc117957739
What makes a clump of 30,000,000,000,000 cells so special? It is a tough question.
I'm surprised they went with Unborn Child instead of Future American Citizen
Future UN-American Citizens need not apply!
(They're not REAL humans, after all. Not MY Tribe!)
I will fully admit that I no longer care.
Frankly, if Democrats want the freedom to execute their own children up through the age of ten, I'll grant it. Once it's out of the womb, if the father wants it, that could be curtailed.
Raise your children to not do that and we'll be fine.
It uses the phrase unborn child instead of fetus.
Everyone loves newspeak until they don't.
Strange that our obstetrician always referred to ours as a baby. He was a Thai so maybe it is different there..
Many Asian cultures count age from conception rather than birth, and Buddhists have ceremony's and mortuary tablets for abortions and miscarriages, so maybe that's where he's coming from.
InB4 one of the Progs here bitches that evangelicals have influenced Buddhism.
Maybe he just knows his customers and speaks honestly with them. He seemed like a smart guy.
Marxist Mammary-Necrophilia-Farter-Fuhrer's made-up malevolent beliefs and rituals (such ass Jew-hating NAZI-worshit) should dictate beliefs and practices to the rest of us; lesser, inferior mortals that we are!
When ENB stops calling puberty blockers and genital mutilation "gender affirming care" I'll take her seriously on the subject of abortion terminology.
Does she really? Yikes, I used to think she was one of the reasonable ones. And by reasonable I mean relatively reasonable in the context of Reason.
First Amendment experts discuss age-verification laws.
The Founders never envisioned there would be perverts!
Reminder: We can't drug war our way out of fentanyl overdoses…
It's bound to work this time.
Just like Socialism.
The Environmental Protection Agency removed federal protections for a majority of the country's wetlands on Tuesday to comply with [the] recent U.S. Supreme Court ruling...
We need to pack the court to save the mosquitos.
While the joke is funny, having property seized in the name of "wetlands" is not.
No one is fond of mosquitoes but those little biters are at the base of a big food web. Bats, to birds, to trout all need mosquitoes.
Nature has never adapted to any changing circumstances, and this marks the end of life on the planet if people are allowed to do with their property what they will! Won't someone think about the mosquito children!?!
/Sarc
No joke though, the current federal definitions are really nebulous to the point that you can't get a straight answer from the feds (EPA, USACE, etc) on what they actually are. And those are the terms used to define the limits of their jurisdiction.
At one recent project near the Mississippi, but well on the 'land' side of a USACE levee and flood wall, the Corps couldn't tell us what the elevation of the 'Ordinary High Water Mark' was, which is, by both state and federal code, where their authority to order us around, ends. Their suggestion was that we hire an outside group of engineers to conduct a study . . .
Not just nebulous but contradictory.
Aren't all religous texts?
Yup.
🙂
A true example of FYTW.
Just ask the Sacketts in Priest Lake, ID.
I had a project in California about 15 years ago that we were trying to develop a small (ten houses) piece of land. Got about halfway through before the project got killed because the next door neighbors pool had been leaking across the property for 20 years prior and the state, while acknowledging there was no wetland shown on the maps, refused to let us mitigate. Fun times.
Most of our California projects have thankfully been on tribal land. They have a level of sovereignty that allows them to disregard a wide range of state rules / red tape when it is in their clear best interest.
Mission AccomplishedSwamp DrainedOf course Democrats are working to save their fellow blood-suckers and disease vectors. Parasites of a kind.
First Amendment experts discuss age-verification laws.
Experts.
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
They can read the first amendment harder and faster than you.
They can also see all the penumbras and emanations that us normal people can't. That's what really makes them "experts."
Inconceivable!
Hold on. It is your opinion that Bob Corn-Revere does not have bona fides as a first amendment expert?
Sigh. It's just a few words. Either (a) there's no such thing as a First Amendment expert, or (b) anyone with a modicum of intelligence and the ability to read English, qualifies.
What makes Corn-Revere an expert is his knowledge of the case law and precedents related to the First Amendment as well as his practical experience of arguing such cases before the Supreme Court.
So, he’s a TOP MAN?
EXPERT.
Try to keep up.
The literal etymology of the word “expert” is a person who “has experience”. Corn-Revere literactually has a lot of experience in arguing first amendment cases before the Supreme Court of the United States.
To reiterate...
So, he’s a TOP MAN?
"literactually"
Peak White Mike.
So here's where we differ....knowledge of the history of obfuscation and emanations does not equal expertise in what words actually mean.
OK, but if I need a first amendment case argued in front of the Supreme Court, I’m gonna try to get Corn-Revere, not, say, you or Idaho Bob to do the job.
So youre asking for a legal expert not a 1a expert.
Not gonna hire JesseAz, either.
Caw caw!
Corn-Revere is likely better than the woman with listed pronouns.
As a rule of thumb, anytime I see someone with their pronouns listed I assume I can ignore anything they have to say because they're clearly a moron.
They're doing individual voir dire of jurors now.
"Are you a fan of our Vice President or not?"
The people trying to put a vague “Right to Reproductive Freedom” in the Ohio Constitution in order to provide judicial supremacy cover for abortion on demand are bitching that “unborn child” is biased language?
Seriously, fuck off pro-abortion scumbags.
Anyone else remember when our legal system was set up with clearly defined wording instead if vague wording government executives and activist judges could twist into anything they wanted? Then again they even do it with clear wording like they did with gender and sex.
In the culture war, the first casualty was language.
The measure seems quite balanced and moderate.
It is vague intentionally to allow abortion activists to do whatever they want.
It is an ink blot to be interpreted as judicial activists see fit. It radicalism is not in the language itself but in what it allows a lawless judge to get away with.
Anyone who is opposed to any ballot measure could say the same thing about the measure they are opposed to.
There’s no more substance to your comment than, “I don’t like this ballot measure!” Unless you are saying, “I don’t like that we have a court system!”
That is because you are not understanding my comment. Whether that is ignorance or a willful mischaracterization. I object to to the measure because the wording is in platitudes that are extremely open to interpretation.
The measure is supported by people who are not really supportive of representative democracy and the people having a truecsay in the laws that govern them.
Give an example, please.
So the sealion wants an example from an opinion?
Crickets.
It is religious language; that's for sure. No-one but religious nuts ever called fertility "unborn children" or pregnancies "unborn children" until the Anti-Choice crowd propagandized it frankly because it not reality at all it's 'faith' and severely ignorant 'faith' at that.
Ahh, there’s some of the ahistorical posting that Jfree was talking about.
I am pro-Democrat abortion.
"It would add a "Right to Reproductive Freedom" section to the Ohio Constitution, stating that "every individual has a right to make and carry out one's own reproductive decisions..."
Except of course for the unborn fetus, and the Irish, but that goes without saying. Cause that unborn fetus isn't an individual, its just a part of the women's body. #science #reason #freeminds
It is just a clump of Irish. It has no rights.
The measure, dubbed Issue 1, will be put to Ohio voters this fall and would amend the Ohio Constitution to make explicit that the state protects reproductive freedom.
Alright, we'll give some
land"reproductive freedom" to the niggers and the chinks, but we don't want the Irish - so mandatory abortions for them!Now who told you abortion had to be 'killing' anything at all? Are C-Sections abortion? The very reason the Anti-Choice crowd is losing this cause is they can't separate the difference between killing something and forcing its creation.
"Are C-Sections abortion?"
Pretty sure babies are supposed to be alive after a typical c-section, so no. Google describes c-sections as a form of "delivery" and an abortion is described as a "termination."
And there you have the very KEY to the debate at hand without all the propaganda behind it. The reproductive right to initiate a C-Section (fetal ejection).
I think you’re going to get a massive reduction in your lovely little abortions, if you insist on doing it by Caesarean section.
Also, by your logic, induced labour would count as an abortion.
That's right. The propagandized narratives is the only battle going on apparently. If Pro-Life would simply lobby for at-will C-Section they'd sure save themselves a ton of trouble instantly lobbying for freedom of both instead of enslavement of both.
This guy is the very definition of nutjob
We have some very recent evidence that the specific purpose of an abortion is not an end to a pregnancy, but a dead child.
Both.
And there is no just law that conveys a right to have a child killed. It simply does not exist, which makes all the appeals to "bodily control" and "ending a pregnancy" so much nonsense.
What child?
What about the case where the “child” was conceived only days ago, and truly is a “clump of cells”?
And I’ll tell you in advance what my follow-up question will be: What is your opinion of climate change activists who dismiss any use of nuclear power?
Then the reproductive right to preform a C-Section it is. Now that wasn't so hard.
Are there any pregnant fetuses?
No, but unborn female individuals have all of their eggs.
“Cause that unborn fetus isn’t an individual” – that is correct.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/individual existing and considered -->separately<-- from the other things or people in a group
Nor does it have an *inherent* right to life. And labeling it deceitful names like “unborn child” doesn’t magically give it those characteristics.
The unborn individual has their own, unique DNA. History will look at you death cultists the way it looks at slave owners.
What kind of argument is that?
An unborn chicken has its own, unique DNA.
[Disclaimer: Not saying there aren’t arguments against abortion, but this particular argument is weak.]
So do organ transplants and naming body organs “unborn children” is the stupidity behind the Pro-Life narrative.
And P.S. "unborn individual" is an oxymoron.
Baton Rouge, Louisiana, is facing allegations that police tortured people brought to a facility known as the "Brave Cave" for arrest processing.
"I am the night. I am vengeance. I'm Braveman."
“falsely implies that the amendment would make the state provide and fund abortions.”
Let’s see: “The State shall not, directly or indirectly…discriminate against either: an individual’s voluntary exercise of this right or a person or entity that assists an individual exercising this right” [etc.]
When they tried to get a right to abortion funding from the U. S. Supreme Court, they said the government couldn’t *discriminate* between abortion and basic pregnancy care. They lost in the Supreme Court, but they’re trying to put it over on the voters of Ohio.
If the government subsidizes pregnancy care or maternity care, it would be “discriminat[ion]” not to subsidize abortion, too. That’s the argument they’ll go with in court, and they’ll have the constitutional language to back it up.
The proposed amendment is deliberately vague about what it concretely means for the purpose of putting the decision out of the realm of the people's representatives in the legislature and into the preferences of the judiciary. It is a very cynical proposal that obscures what the long term ramifications are.
So, it is simultaneously so wordy that its full text cannot be included on the ballot yet “vague”.
Not buying it. I read it. It’s quite detailed.
Cite the details.
Fair, a better description would be opaque.
Mere wordiness is not evidence of an objective meaning being conveyed.
That’s why I added that I read it and found it quite detailed. Detailed is the opposite of vague.
Now, will you answer the question I asked you above: please give an example of its being vague.
"...health of the mother." But you already know this.
I don’t know what you consider vague or ambiguous.
“Health of the mother”, which you put in quotes is not a phrase in the measure nor in the summary.
Economists are worried about mid-size cities experiencing a "commercial real estate apocalypse."
If people want to work from home, homeless can live at their work. Problem solved.
Los Angeles officials want to make it more difficult for RV owners to rent out their spaces.
Cousin Eddie hardest hit.
Shitters full!
real tomato ketchup, Eddie?
nuthin' but the best!
Aunt Edna, supper's gettin' cold!
Yeah. But Daddy says I'm the best at it.
"I got laid off when they closed that asbestos factory, and wouldn't you know it, the army cuts my disability pension because they said that the plate in my head wasn't big enough."
Alabama is set to try out a new, untested execution method.
5th boosters.
It is fascinating how the anti-death penalty activists are invoking a form of the precautionary principle, not because they are truly afraid the method of execution will be painful, but because they are afraid that it will not be. That would thus remove the argument that the death penalty is "cruel and unusual".
Whatever one thinks about the death penalty, the activists against it are appallingly dishonest and cynical in their tactics.
That's the nature of activism. Even the abolitionists exaggerated, fabulated and used hyperbole.
Yet medical professions can help sick, poor, old, traumatized, disabled, etc. people die with dignity and without pain.
I would be fine with the state using fentanyl to kill him. If cops can OD just from touching it...
What better way to test an execution method?
As Heaven's Gate would say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Wait?! Are you proposing execution by cannibalism?
Long pork, the other other white meat.
Nitrogen asphyxiation: "Untested" because it's never been done deliberately to a human being who wasn't suicidal - so they don't count it's long use in euthanizing animals, occasional use in suicide, and all the times a room was flooded with nitrogen accidentally and people died without even noticing that they were dying.
I do have three objections to it:
1. I'm OK with the death penalty in principle, but not with it being imposed by our fouled-up court system.
2. Alabama has found a way to make it possible to foul up doing this: using a mask which needs skill to adjust it to fit right, instead of sealing a small room and flooding it with nitrogen.
3. Like lethal injection, it's too bloodless and painless. If we're going to kill people, I want it to be gory and public, so everyone understands what we're doing. Use a guillotine and seat the onlookers close enough to be sprayed with arterial blood, or blow the perpetrator's head off with a .50 caliber machine gun, or tie him across the muzzle of a cannon and blow him in half.
A 12-year-old student in Colorado Springs was removed from class for having a Gadsden flag patch on his backpack.
Another brick in that wall.
Diehard democrat distant cousins of mine for years had proudly flown the Gadsden flag over their farm, only to be horrified when the Tea Party and its ilk adopted it. It was hilarious.
We don't need no education
We dont need no thought control
"Hey, teacher! Leave them kids alone" has a whole new meaning in our brave new world.
... don’t need no...
Perhaps a little bit of basic grammar wouldn't hurt.
Or perhaps Pink Floyd's members are leftists and are signaling that they actually are _for_ thought control and leftist indoctrination that the left passes off as "education".
"Do students have privacy rights when it comes to their parents?" asks the Los Angeles Times.
I didn't read the piece but I'm going to assume I know the reason for it now.
You know parents should be able to decide that their child get "gender affirming care", unless they might be against that course of action, then the child has a right to privacy against its parents which agents of the state must respect.
Heads transing the kid wins, tails not transing the kid loses.
YouTube demonetizes montage of Democrats denying elections, calls it ‘Dangerous’ and ‘Harmful.’
Youtube: “How dare you point out the hypocrisy of the Democrat party! That’s 'dangerous and harmful' … to their electoral chances."
Google [crescendoing]: Lovely section 230! Wonderful section 230!.
Donald Trump’s Trial For Election Interference Set To Begin In Time To Interfere With Election
The judge knows it will be appealed and even overturned so she doesn't give a fuck. She even didn't care that his legal team would have to read the equivalent of war and peace 8 times a day to meet the trial dates. She only cares about the politics. Disrupt campaign and emphasize charges before major votes.
Soros has a plush legal consulting gig, a house in the Hamptons and a New York apartment for her when this is all done.
if this backfires and he wins BECAUSE of it, this will be the funniest L they ever took, even more than losing with Hilary.
Associated Press Coverage of Courts, Climate Bankrolled by Dozens of Progressive Foundations
Rick Perry makes the conservative case for psychedelic medicine.
Only when you expand your mind will you truly see that third alphabet agency.
Maybe next year with the politician's support the DEA will seize enough fentanyl to kill the US population two times over. The same amount will get through as always and profits will go up. Stopping fentanyl on the supply side is useless. You have to go after the demand side.
How do you propose to do that?
By investing in mental health care. Work to get the addicts free from the drugs. Some will be gone too far and then you need to focus on bringing then back to functional state. People take drugs for any number of problems; we should not care if they take drugs to deal just with day-to-day stresses. Rather we should care that they are functional, taking care of themselves and working.
Go ahead. What are you waiting for? Oh, you said "we", meaning through the force of the State. The worst way to help anyone.
So instead, you like to use force of state to lock people up for using drugs and spend billions trying to stop smuggling. "We" pay either way I am just speaking to efficiency.
How moderate of you to assume that the only other valid option is to continue the war on drugs... Definitely not any other thing we could do, like, maybe, not define what a good life is and then move to force others into living it.
The drug war is motivated by the same "efficiency" argument you make, so are you moderately suggesting that we just need more prohibition?
Let them OD all they want and demand dies. The only involvement government should have is moving the bodies.
So what are your thoughts on making all drugs legal for consenting adults and letting the pharmaceutical companies Genetically Modify opioids so that they kill pain without killing people?
For over 50 years I've been for regulating all recreational drugs the same as alcohol and tobacco. Most of those drugs are less dangerous than alcohol and tobacco, but politicians, bureaucrats, and cops hate giving up any power.
All those great economic projections keep getting revised down as numbers show projections were wildly optimistic.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/labor-market-implodes-job-openings-crater-prior-data-unexpectedly-revised-sharply-lower
It's okay. Buttplug gets a gloating post or two out of every fresh guesstimate.
Still just a coincidence.
— Jeffdeesarc
I’m not going to even read your cite and even if I did, I’m going to need a signed affidavit from a top person in the administration attesting that they revise the numbers down on purpose.
The only ones playing word games are conservatives using the term unborn child!!!
/Sarc
So, let me get this straight, using the term "unborn child" instead of "fetus" (or the pro abortion crowd's preferred nomenclature "clump of cells") is doubleplusungood thought, but "reproductive freedom" instead of "abortion" is A-OK?
Of course. Use the language that helps your side and condemn the other side for doing likewise.
True, the pro aborts want to use "fetus" because it is a dehumanizing term that obscures that abortion is destroying an individual human life. They want to use language as much as possible to hide the fact that they stand against the universal application of basic human rights. That there are some classes of human who should be made to stand outside the protection of the law.
And not a word about the other human involved: the pregnant woman.
Moderate, normie people see that there are two people involved. And that some balance, necessarily imperfect, must be struck between the rights of the two.
Moderate, normie people also see that a pregnancy often has medical issues associated with it.
Oh, so you're calling them "women" now, not "birthing people", Laursen?
The pro aborts activists are not moderates. They do not want the issue decided in the legislature where compromises are legitimized through the representative democratic process. The want it decided in the judiciary where their radical notions can be implemented.
The "moderate" position on abortion will have significant restrictions upon it.
Sure seems like a ballot measure is putting the matter to a direct popular vote.
Prediction: If the measure is voted down, you’ll be the first to say that the people spoke!
The balance you apparently openly support is woman can kill her baby. Not much of a balance.
What baby?
The unborn teenager.
Kinda like unmade cookies huh? I can't believe people keep steeling my unmade cookies!!! It's so ridiculous its rather humorous.
Bad metaphor. If we want to use your baking metaphor then eggs and sperm are the flour, eggs, and other ingredients. The womb is the oven. The cookie dough is the combining of ingredients. Once you put that dough in the oven it is an undercooked cookie. When it is ready to come out then it is a properly cooked cookie. The attempt to define away the nature of a thing because it doesn't fit your preference is a bad faith argument. A fetus is a human in early development just as a baking cookie is in the process of becoming its full intended form. It's not a reasonable assertion that a fetus isn't a human in the womb then magically becomes human after birth (if desired by the mother). Too many arguments in favor of abortion degrade the most basic of human rights while eliminating responsibility for one's free choices. I get the fringe arguments, but honestly believe being pro-abortion puts a person strongly at odds with fundamental libertarian ethos.
My fingernail is human. OMG! I just murdered my fingernail!!! /s
No; A bad metaphor is pretending flour and an egg is a cookie.
If the saw it as “two people” involved, they’d probably believe one of them is murdering the other. The only way your average normie believes in pro choice is that they don’t view a fetus as a person.
And that’s somewhat my position as well; that there exists a few stages of development before an embryo achieves personhood. Otherwise I can’t justify the deprivation of rights involved in terminating that life. But other people believe in personhood at conception and cannot abide that deprivation of rights.
I don’t think there’s many people who are truly okay with framing it as two people in which one person is the sole determiner of whether the other one dies.
Well Said…. Cries of the “don’t kill my unicorn” (fantasy-land creatures). Ironically dreamed up in a 3rd parties mind that has absolutely no business being there in other people's personal life.
Sonograms are TJJ's moon-landing hoax.
“framing it as two people in which one person is the sole determiner of whether the other one dies”
Which is not something I said.
So you believe there are two people involved in an abortion, yes? Or you believe normal people believe this?
Do those two people get an equal say?
Yes; They should both be free to enjoy their *inherent* ?individual? rights. Neither of which pregnancies have pre-viable. Pro-Life just wants to enslave both them. The ?baby? has to be enslaved in the womb and the mother has to be enslaved to enslave the ?baby?.
No matter how you want to spin it; it comes down to.
If you cannot support ?baby? freedom. (fetal ejection)
UR supporting Gov-Gun forced reproduction.
Sometimes this commenter is as indecipherable to me as SQRLSY.
Indecipherable only because you do not WANT to understand!
For the college-level course, ***IF*** you ever develop an intellectual-style work ethic and self-discipline... I know that that is asking a LOT... Then maybe peruse the below... (yeah, I am dreaming... So-called "thinking" minds are most often NOT capable of HONEST self-examination!))
The intelligent, well-informed, and benevolent members of tribes have ALWAYS been feared and resented by those who are made to look relatively worse (often FAR worse), as compared to the advanced ones. Especially when the advanced ones denigrate tribalism. The advanced ones DARE to openly mock “MY Tribe’s lies leading to violence against your tribe GOOD! Your tribe’s lies leading to violence against MY Tribe BAD! VERY bad!” And then that’s when the Jesus-killers, Mahatma Gandhi-killers, Martin Luther King Jr.-killers, etc., unsheath their long knives!
“Do-gooder derogation” (look it up) is a socio-biologically programmed instinct. SOME of us are ethically advanced enough to overcome it, using benevolence and free will! For details, see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Do_Gooders_Bad/ and http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/ .
In conclusion, troglodytes, thanks for helping me to prove my points!
Then they crucified Jesus, 'cause Jesus made them look bad! ALSO because Jesus made them look bad FOR THEIR STUPID, HIDE-BOUND TRIBALISM! "The parable of the Good Samaritan" was VERY pointed, because the Samaritans were of the WRONG tribe, in the eyes of "Good Jews" of the day.
It is reasonable to argue that both “get a say”. But there is not going to be any perfect solution, only imperfect compromise, because the scenarios involve the entanglement of two lives.
And don’t argue with me that that isn’t so. You can take it up with god or nature. If I had been the creator of humans, women would painlessly lay eggs or something.
The anti-abort position is that the other people (the birthing person didn’t miraculously conceive, so there was a non-birthing person as well) involved actively created the
clump of cellsfetus, it didn’t crawl up in the woman (thus violating her bodily autonomy) so at some point the birthing persons feelings on the situation become moot.You can agree or disagree with that, but I think we’ll end up where the rest of the civilized world is at around 12-16 weeks.
+30 days and you have Roe v Wade.
I honestly mainly had a problem with Roe because of how it was decided. Same with Obergefell.
Penumbras and emanations are as mystical as any religious interpretation of the Bible.
So, do you think that freedom of the press applies only to wooden screw presses, and that the 2nd Amendment gives us only the right to keep flintlock muskets? The extension of our constitutionally protected rights to freedom of expression on electronic media and to keep modern firearms is found in penumbras and emanations.
The plain language of both amendments needs no interpretation or penumbras. “Congress shall make no law” is explicit. “Shall not be infringed” is explicit.
Obviously not for politicians, but nobody ever accused them of being smart.
This is absolutely correct.
the decision was terrible and the reasoning was lunacy.
They did everything they could to tiptoe around the actual issue of your own right to own your own body.
Yes; Truth be told Roe v Wade was already very Pro-Life. Course were some power is granted there always seems to be a group of power-madness that follows it in which the power is never enough.
Your own right to own your own body... ENDS where a Sacred Fartilized Egg Smell begins! (Except, of course, if yer Sacred Fartilized Egg Smell contains NO native-born USA human DNA!)
QUESTIONS THAT THE FANATICS WON’T EVER ANSWER: What do YOU think that the punishment should be for deliberately killing a fertilized human egg cell? Ditto the punishments for likewise killing a fertilized egg of an ape... A monkey... A rat... An insect... If your Righteous Punishments From on High are DIFFERENT in these cases, then WHY? WHERE do the differences come from? And what gives YOU (or the 51% of the voters) the right to punish the rest of us?
Never, ever, have I gotten any serious answers, when I pose these questions, about what the PUNISHMENTS should be! (Could it be that the fanatics don’t want us to focus on THEIR obsession, which is their smug and self-righteous “punishment boners”?). Also, the unwillingness to answer questions is strongly indicative of authoritarianism. At the root here is the unmistakable attitude of “Because I said so, peons! Do NOT question your Rulers!”
http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/#_Toc117957739
In almost all respects, the balance between two people does not allow for one to be killed at the behest of the other.
If the pregnancy causes actual, physical danger to the mother - not emotional, which can't be measured - most people don't object to saving her life, by sacrificing the other.
But the reasons for abortions are rarely that.
Are we taking early or late abortions? If we are talking late-term abortions, which is the biggest area of contention, there is often actual, physical danger to the mother.
Retarded Fire is WAAAAY more COMPASSIONATE than ye or me, and wants to PROTECT the "molar pregnancy" clump of cancer!
Oklahoma now vying with Idaho for most fanatical!
https://news.yahoo.com/woman-cancerous-pregnancy-told-wait-215500885.html
Woman with Cancerous Pregnancy Was Told to Wait in Parking Lot Until She Was 'Crashing'
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/molar-pregnancy/symptoms-causes/syc-20375175
From there, we see that MOLAR PREGNANCIES ARE NEVER VIABLE!!! Yet fascist assholes like YOU want to endanger women in the Sacred Name of Unique Human DNA, which is present in a womb-slave!
From the listed source…
There are two types of molar pregnancy — complete molar pregnancy and partial molar pregnancy. In a complete molar pregnancy, the placental tissue swells and appears to form fluid-filled cysts. There is no fetus.
In a partial molar pregnancy, the placenta might have both regular and irregular tissue. There may be a fetus, but the fetus can’t survive. The fetus usually is miscarried early in the pregnancy.
Or 'abortion care.'
Turn off your heat at night to help Mother Gaia.
https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/millions-britons-told-not-heat-homes-night-hit-net-zero-target
Britain's Climate Change Committee (CCC) has urged millions of Britons to not heat their homes in the evening to help the government hit its net zero target.
No, they aren't urging elites to ditch their private jets for commercial, or not to burn 1,000 of fuel taking the yacht out for a jaunt. Chris Stark, head of the CCC, wants ordinary citizens to turn off their electric heaters (heat pumps) at night as part of a wider drive to deliver "emissions savings," which includes a shift away from gas boilers - which Chris, a hypocrite, still has.
"The grid is already creaking and daft ideas like this show just how much worse it will become," Andrew Montford, the director of Net Zero Watch, told The Telegraph. "It's clear that renewables are a disaster in the making. We now need political leaders with the courage to admit it."
It is not as if hypothermia no longer exists. To satisfy the climate alarmists we must live without necessities.
Cult leaders often demand that members sacrifice for their "god."
Gov-Gods packing guns no less.
All rooted in the belief (cognitive dissonance) that Gov-Gods packing 'guns' can make sh*t for them.
I thought the world was so hot people didn't need heaters.
You get a shiver in the dark...
Did they malappropriate the word allegedly? I know a certian Reason “editor” who likes to do that when cheerleading for abortion.
What about the word credible?
This is about what she wrote about Penny Hopper last week? At that point, it was just a vague story about some person named “Penny” with no more details. “Allegedly” was fitting.
[Disclaimer: Offered in the Spirit of being tired of all the bullshit rhetoric in the commentariat.]
You've got 95% of the commentariat muted anyway, so the only bullshit you see is from Sarc, Shrike, Jeffy, et.al.
Don't forget his own bullshit.
I thought that went without saying. Laursen seems to think his own shit doesn't stink.
Rebates for millionaires.
https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinois/article_af57e93c-469c-11ee-9b7a-cba7a6e8df8a.html
The first round of Illinois’ rebate program for buyers of electric vehicles is over and a new $12 million round is set to begin.
The next round opens up Nov. 1. The first round for fiscal year 2023 that ended June 30 cost taxpayers $19 million. That is nearly 4,900 purchasers of EVs getting $4,000 rebates for the previous fiscal year. Of those, only around 10% were low-income individuals, despite the program prioritizing such applicants. Among those granted rebates, nearly 300 were luxury models costing up to $125,000, as The Center Square previously reported.
“We have poor and working-poor people that are subsidizing what in many cases are very wealthy people to give them the rebates that they are getting out of the state program,” Chesney told The Center Square. “You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say that you’re fighting for the working-poor and the working class but then again have subsidies that go to the more affluent.”
“If electric vehicles is a good product then they should be able to stand on their own two feet and I don’t know why we’re inserting ourselves into the private sector to change consumer behavior,” Chesney said. “If this is in fact good for the consumer, let the consumers buy it but the idea that it needs to be federally or subsidized on state level, I just simply could not support that.”
OBL's First law.
"Baton Rouge, Louisiana, is facing allegations that police tortured people brought to a facility known as the "Brave Cave" for arrest processing."
Oh gosh, I can't even right now. In 2023? Call it "Native American Cave" you bigots.
What ever happened to trunks?
They're for bears to reside in.
Damn you! Now my post looks derivative.
There was not enough room in the trunk for the perp and the cop in the bear suit. That's why they went with the 'cave'.
Trump dead-enders are the stupidest people on the planet, Exhibit #5,044
If Donald Trump doesn’t win in 2024 there is no point of anyone getting married and having kids because why would you subject an innocent child to living in a communist country? America will be a communist country and failed state come 2025 if Donald Trump doesn’t win. I’m just being honest. This country is going to hell.
How is this idiotic overuse of "communist" any better than the progs who label everything they dislike "fascist"?
The modern Democratic Party — especially its Wall-Street-approved establishment wing led by Joe Biden — promotes the interests of billionaires. It often doesn't even try to hide its contempt for the working class ("Shut up about your grocery bill increasing under Biden"). That's pretty much the opposite of "communism."
#WordsHaveMeaning
Communists, when they have actually attained power, have been less ideologically pure and more a criminal gang exploiting power to enrich themselves and their cronies. So it is with the Democrats.
And by their omission from your comment are you implying it is not the same with Republicans?
RINO'S probably. The Republican platform is a SMALL (powerless) government. Hint, Hint; Trump dismisses thousands of Obama Executive Orders - Biden re-instates them.
“Trump dead-enders are the stupidest people on the planet, Exhibit #5,044…”
Not nearly as brain-dead as TDS-addled steaming piles of shit like this TDS-addled steaming pile of shit.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
Oh look, it's king snowflake sevo again.
Cry more.
"Oh look, it’s king snowflake"
Gosh this sounds familiar. Who else here regularly uses this terminology.
Leftards ref:'raspberrydinners' love to project.
Not nearly as brain-dead as TDS-addled steaming piles of shit like this TDS-addled steaming pile of shit.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
It's the Jews.
The problem is that the "socialist" has very little pejorative meaning despite the fact that socialist states caused so very many deaths over the last 100+ years. The fact that the Chinese, the Norks and the failed Soviets are only nominally communist or that America could reach those heights of depravity without ever adopting communism is lost in the effort to find a descriptor that carries the connotation of 'evil empire'.
Personally, I stick with 'Marxist' because the tactics and language they use originated with him. Particularly the disparagement of free trade and encouragement of class and racial conflict.
Congrats Sandra, on once again exposing Reason's ability to allow their inimitable genius to eclipse their self-awareness.
Democrats are pretty much full blown fascists at this point.
"How is this idiotic overuse of “communist” any better than the progs who label everything they dislike “fascist”?"
I don't really have much issue with calling people something they call themselves. Conversely, I have yet to see very many people openly describe themselves as fascists so I would hesitate to call someone that without reason.
Laura Loomer is a well-known, certifiable lunatic. This is accepted fact even among Trump supporters. Marjorie Taylor Greene calls her unstable. She has been permanently banned from all social media for years recently reinstated on X but is on final warning.
She constantly runs for office and refuses to concede when she loses. Needless to say, Loomer is the darling of the leftist media who has generated endless articles her, portraying her as a normal Republican.
Loomer has claimed her enemies eat babies, claims to be “proud Islamophobe” calling Islam a “cancer on society” and referring to Muslims as “savages.” She has also stated she’s “pro-white nationalism,” and said she wanted “more” migrant deaths.
Today's conspiracy theory is tomorrow's reality.
They are Bolsheviks, not communists. there is a difference.
WTF? One oddball family in Turkey is not a case of de-evolution.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/family-walks-fours-shouldnt-exist-30809132
A family has been found to walk on all fours - in a startling revelation that could potentially rewrite the chapters of human evolution.
[Disclaimer: Offered in the spirit of WTF, this is supposed to be journalism?]
This is the natural evolution of your team telling kids they can be anything from dogs to cats to mermaids to unicorns. Deal.
They identify as de-evolving, Mike.
“He further elaborated on the significance of bipedalism in distinguishing humans from other animals. He said: “The thing which marks us off from the rest of the animal world is the fact that we’re the species which walks on two legs and holds our heads high in the air… of course it’s language and all other sorts of things too, but it’s terribly important to our sense of ourselves as being different from others in the animal kingdom”
List of animals hardest hit by this new way of thinking: ostriches, penguins and kangaroos.
I would've said the distinguishing feature is that we're the only ones stupid enough to play with fire and think we can control it.
" "The Environmental Protection Agency removed federal protections for a majority of the country's wetlands on Tuesday to comply with [the] recent U.S. Supreme Court ruling" in Sackett v. EPA, NPR reports. (More on the Sackett case from Reason's Ronald Bailey.)"
Um because they're not wetlands. That's the entire fucking point.
When will the left come to grips with abortion? Abortion is the intentional taking of human life. Stop playing footsie with the euphemisms. NOBODY IS FOOLED. So just stop. Say what you mean, and mean what you say.
You want the right to kill.
You know who else want the right to have an abortion? Millions of moderate, and even conservative, women.
Anyone who wants to kill their kid for conviniance is in no way a moderate, ghoul.
What kid?
Killing Jews though, that's ok.
Fuck off Shrike/Sarc.
"What kid?"
The one in her fucking belly you bloodthirsty ghoul.
A fetus is a kid, offspring, baby, child, bairn, ad nauseum, and those words have been used colloquially and officially to describe the unborn since English first evolved.
Your fucking stupid newspeak language games and denial of biological realities will never change that fact.
Bloodthirsty? You’re the nazi sympathizer who wants to kill anyone whose surname contains "Gold."
Time to come clean, #1167720.
Kids have an *inherent* right to life. Pre-viable fetuses do not.
Pro-Life's last political move had nothing to do with 'kids'.
What if we replace "fetuses" with "unborn babies"? Does the math still work?
A fetus can be viable as early as around 20 weeks. What is the difference between weeks 19 and 20? The subject has not suddenly become an entirely different thing, it has only progressed one week further in development.
Being charitable, I'll say that one week difference has meaning when we have a concern for the health of the mother. If the baby isn't viable at week 19 and continuing the pregnancy will kill her then we have a NAP violation and abortion can be justified. If the baby is viable at week 20 and continuing the pregnancy will kill the mother then every available means to help both survive should be implemented. At that point killing one intentionally rather than incidentally isn't justified.
But even taking your proposed distinction is congruent with the exceptions most pro-life people will agree to.
Thus a limitless reproductive right for at-will C-Section. The solution is as plain as day. Want to *know* if it can have person-hood without forcing the woman to reproduce. Eject it and find out.
If you cannot support ?baby? freedom (fetal ejection)
UR supporting Gov-Gun forced reproduction.
Free the Fetus!
When will the pro-birth crowd realize there is no life if it can't survive on its own?
Fetus is a medical term so maybe that should be on the ballot and not this bullshit about "unborn child."
Or do you think I should be able to add "unrealized basketball star" to my resume? Should we just start talking in hypotheticals about it all? Are you a "could-be serial killer"?
Regardless of how you feel about abortion, the ballot language is horseshit and LONGER than the text of the actual amendment. At this point, put the amendment language itself on the ballot and be done with it.
Fuck off you pants-shitting leftist.
I see 1167720 is back. Hi Sarc, that you?
It's can't be, Sarcasmic swears spoofing people means you have no honor or integrity. And it can't be Pluggo, because he insists he never ever socks (except all those times he was caught). And it can't be KAR because he was either Sarc or Shrike.
It must be that darned Tulpa again.
The actual amendment is so vague as to be virtually meaningless.
That seems to be the anti-abortion talking point that Mickey Rat keeps repeating.
For a "vague" amendment it sure has a lot of words. So many words that the ballot committee felt they needed to "summarize" it.
What words are informative as to which regulations are allowed Mike?
When will the pro-birth crowd realize there is no life if it can’t survive on its own?
So you're saying that children should be aborted up to about the age of 15 or so?
Were you physically attached to your mother until you were 15? I would have thought that would make the news at some point.
The question is so broad as to invite such mockery. Are two-day old infants capable of “surviving on their own”? It just shows the absurdity of the Magic Birth Canal Trip pretense.
When will Pro-Life come to grips with pre-viable abortion? Pre-viable Abortion is the intentional removal of a fertilized egg that cannot and does not have any inherent right to life let alone having any human cognitive abilities or even motor skill. Stop playing propaganda-games with the euphemisms. NOBODY IS FOOLED. So just stop. Say what you mean, and mean what you say.
You want to force women to reproduce by poking gov-guns at them.
"does not have any inherent right to life let alone having any human cognitive abilities or even motor skill."
Do you not see that slippery slope? Who is defining the circumstances that grant a right to life?
Rights have to be inherent else they become entitlements to other people's stuff/bodies. Yes there is a very slippery slope here not just with other people's bodies but all of other people's labors, things, property, etc, etc, etc pimped out by government to 'save' the ??? whatever. It needs to stop.
If it's not *inherent* it's not a right. Government doesn't 'grant' rights they ensure *inherent* rights aren't violated.
So in answer to your question 'who'? Well God or Nature itself does and when it comes to medical devices or labors saving lives one is at the whim of the good graces of the other. It's far better than slavery. It's no different than children/grand-parents on life support with X% possibility for survival or ever full-functioning (veggie state). WHO should be the arbiter of Life-Support? 1st. The good will of the medical equipment company and 2nd FAMILY. What; did you think our all holy politicians deserve the authority to make those calls?
Thank you, Donald Trump:
"After Supreme Court curtails federal power, Biden administration weakens water protections"
[...]
"Washington – The Biden administration weakened regulations protecting millions of acres of wetlands Tuesday, saying it had no choice after the Supreme Court sharply limited the federal government’s jurisdiction over them.
The rule would require that wetlands be more clearly connected to other waters like oceans and rivers, a policy shift that departs from a half-century of federal rules governing the nation’s waterways...."
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/nation/2023/08/29/after-supreme-court-curtails-federal-power-biden-administration-weakens-water-protections/70708812007/
"• "Do students have privacy rights when it comes to their parents?" asks the Los Angeles Times."
Given that parents are liable for actions done by the children...not just no, but hell the fuck no.
Do parents have privacy rights when it comes to their students? No.
"has a new tack to stack the deck against it: using highly charged and potentially misleading ballot language."
No potential about it- it is.
But hey- it's Republicans who crave power at all costs. There is nothing they won't stoop to to get it and keep it.
This POS should be recalled from office since he certainly isn't fit to hold it. If not for the shambolic August election alone but this on top.
Why, Republicans could try and tie up their chief political rival on very sketchy charges before a presidential election.
Only a fascist would do that, right?
This complaint from the side that labels itself "pro choice". That barely wants to have an honest discussion of what they are really about.
They're all about attacking the opponent. Part of their [WE] mobsters RULE democracy ideology. It's a KING of the mountain game for leftards. Their gang mentality in politics is what makes them so dangerous. No principles. No supreme law. Just pure power-mad "the [WE] gangsters RULE!".
As-if every comment by a left-leaner didn't confirm exactly that.
Your side might want to come to grips with the control you want to have over women.
Your side might want to get a grip over the gigantic holocaust you've created. Their are two humans involved in every abortion and killing one of them isn't a choice only one half of the equation gets to make.
Particularly when they already chose to partake in an activity whose sole purpose is to create a pregnancy.
Well then for heavens sake. ALLOW those two humans their freedom. Free the mother and ?baby?…… Not gov-gun dictate the mother to keep that ?baby? locked up in her womb. Talk about killing freedom on both ends of the equation.
Talk about denying biological reality and the rights of one of the people involved. Libertarianism doesn't only apply to lazy sluts.
Your ‘science’ (ironically not held by a single honorable doctor; so really religion) isn’t an excuse to use gov-guns to enslave other people. Liberty is for every woman, pregnant or not and every ?baby? (that part you refuse to accept).
Liberty is for Trump supporters. Everyone else can die in a fire. Especially the Jews.
Sarcasmic, that's a pretty lame and dumb attempt to spoof ML. How much did you imbibe today prior to thinking it's a great idea?
an activity whose sole purpose is to create a pregnancy.
Wow, you must be fun in bed.
I ain't even on that side, and I can see that "not murdering babies" isn't exactly "control over women".
I mean, if you want to define "not born" as "not a person" (and you do), then you have a lot of hair splitting and horrific things that you have to take on board.
If you want to define "not yet able to survive outside the womb but still a genetically unique individual" as "person", you also take on some uncomfortable stuff. But it sure is a lot less uncomfortable than standing in defense of "kill that 8.5 month old 'fetus' because I find it inconvenient". (and before you attempt to deflect - yes, the majority position of pro-choice democrat politicians is clearly "up until birth")
The truth is that there is no great answer to this one. And nobody likes that answer.
The truth is that there is no great answer to this one.
I absolutely agree with you.
And nobody likes that answer.
I dunno, I am able to deal with a world that has ambiguity. Extremists and activitsts on both sides of the abortion issues apparently cannot.
The "great answer" is gov-guns cannot 'save' something that doesn't have it's own *inherent* right to life without enslaving someone else. It's the same argument Universal Healthcare advocates use all the time. Enslave those people for my rights. The correct term is *entitlement* because it's not something said person has *inherently*.
The foundation of the USA and it's government wasn't to enslave some to 'save' others. It was founded on Individual Liberty and Justice for all.
The Republican SCOTUS that wrote Roe v Wade pegged this directly giving the term pre-viable (i.e. Not having an inherent right to life).
Universal health care works great here in Canada. So does gun control. We don't have mass shootings like you.
I'm glad you're in Canada. Confused why you're commenting so strongly on US politics.
It's not me, ghoul. It's one of your pals socking. Probably Sarcasmic or Buttplug.
Sarcasmic. Pluggo's too fucking lazy. This seems like a good idea if one is really high or really drunk.
Come on, Mother’s, there’s an awful lot of hockey violence in your neck of the woods.
Damn, you're gullible, Laursen.
Your argument is always that the unborn do not have inherent rights and that women are enslaved by them. Someone might reasonably reach that conclusion and someone else might reasonably reach the opposite conclusion. But if your appeal to authority is Roe V Wade you're not going to win any converts.
How is Roe v Wade an authority ruling? It literally blocked the authority/legislation from ever trampling over “The right of the people to be secure in their persons” until viability and specifically only granted it a State issue after that.
The projection, it burns.
Sure I'm not alone in cheering the new pop-up ads to the right blocking about a quarter of the screen!
Gotta double down on ads that reload themselves and fuck up whatever audio I have playing while on here
This shit is infuriating. Had to put my phone on airplane mode and turn off WiFi just to finish reading a thread. Guess Reasons’s Koch is running low on cash
Every person should have full rights to their own body without political/government interference (including gov-paid) – there isn’t anything more personal than one’s own body and the US Constitution 4th Amendment states this, “The right of the people to be secure in their persons”. And the massively *Republican* Supreme Court upheld that right in Roe v Wade.
Modern culture/party wars (Court Activism) conquered that National Individual Right and deferred it to the State and the ruling was completely loaded with the most BS activism one could ever imagine. That kind of ignorance of the Supreme Law is exactly why this nation is getting torn apart and failing.
If you cannot support ?baby? freedom (fetal ejection)
UR supporting Gov-Gun Forced Reproduction.
...by gov-paid; meaning paid-by-gov is political interference to full body rights.
And the massively *Republican* Supreme Court upheld that right in Roe v Wade.,
No they didnt. In fact they specifically weasel-worded their way around that right in upholding Roe v. Wade so that it would certainly NOT confirm your general right to bodily autonomy. That was their most important job. Affirm abortion, but do NOT affirm general bodily autonomy at all costs.
The irony is that abortion is literally the ONLY medical circumstance where the question of bodily autonomy is not cut and dry.
There is also assisted suicide. While you are right; there also isn't a right to kill someone just because they're on your private property - only the right to eject them from the property. Fetal Ejection should be established as an Individual Right; but taking away another's *inherent* right to life isn't a right either.
However; The US Constitution bases citizenship on the word 'born' and Jesus himself said, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
I don't believe the "unborn" is Caesars territory and making it Caesars territory is worshiping Gov-Gods. In that respect; the government should just stay out of it completely and let God judge gods territory.
This is unfair, say the left who will no doubt try to get 'CONVICTED FELON' (28 PT BOLD ARIAL) added to Trump's name on the ballot?
>>has a new tack to stack the deck against it: using highly charged and potentially misleading ballot language.
fortify. Ohio Secretary of State Frank LaRose is fortifying the ballot.
REASON predictably parrots the leftist line, as usual.
It also predictably ignores the libertarian injunction that individual liberty does not extend to harming others.
Not supporting/reproducing others isn't "harming" them. Pro-Life carries the same argument that Universal Healthcare does (i.e. "if you wont be forced to serve them, your killing them.")
Wow. That's quite a stretch.
There is no simple, clear-cut libertarian solution to the abortion issue. It is a case of the real world being entangled for a tidy libertarian solution.
When Reason says anything libertarian they're full of shit. Everyone who writes for them voted for Biden. They're all leftists who should kill themselves.
Finally get over that hangover, sarc? Not until after noon though, must have been a doozy last night.
More of sarcasmic's famous honesty and integrity.
Fuck off you stupid, unimaginative parrot with the maturity of a child, churning out tired cliches that weren't even funny the first time. Go suck a bag of dicks you desperate homo, begging for attention from men who fuck their wives in the ass.
Whoever that is posting under Mother’s Lament (and also just above under sarcasmic), maybe take some advice: if you use the same login for all these different names, one mute will shut you up. You should probably have multiple logins if you want to even attempt to trick people.
It would add a "Right to Reproductive Freedom" section to the Ohio Constitution, stating that "every individual has a right to make and carry out one's own reproductive decisions
^When you feminist too close to the sun, wind up science-denying harder than Dylan Mulvaney, and driving people away from your cause by making religious and social conservatives sound like the sane adults in the room.
Apparently they didn't teach it to you in your insane feminist science class, but you do realize that for the overwhelming majority of vertebrates, male and female alike, reproduction is not an individual decision, right?
Classification as a mammal requires differentiation between two discrete sexes, the male of each species injecting his gamete into the female which, if fertilization is successful, carries any resulting zygotes within her body until giving live birth. That is the actual science of the matter. Everything else is behavior.
Most mammals. I'd go a bit further and use the term "placental mammal" as this question might be easier if we were marsupials or monotremes, one giving birth to a tiny joey, then carrying the joey in a pouch (or back as opossums), and the other laying eggs.
We will almost certainly be able to craft an artificial womb capable of nurturing a zygote through it's entire development in the next 30 years. It is only going to reinforce that terminating a fetus for convenience is inherently unethical.
We could, tomorrow, set up a blackjack table where everyone who plays at the table wins. Even if you believe and can make it such that, going forward, nobody ever loses a game of blackjack ever again, the idea that we are endowed by our creator with equal opportunity to win at every game of blackjack we play is, still, self-evidently untrue.
I don't follow. It will certainly be the case that once a zygote can be matured outside of its mother's womb that there will still be developmental defects and genetic abnormalities and some people will not want to take on the responsibility for such a child.
Without the pregnancy-slave and health of the mother arguments, how could such an action be justified? Viability is no longer the criteria.
This gets into what I was saying below about balkanizing the biology away from the underlying logic and considering the rest as 'just behavioral'.
An individual right to reproduction, especially for humans, is (not even accidentally or very subtly) like an individual right to free healthcare. It's fundamentally an oxymoron and no amount of behavior, scientific or other, can fundamentally resolve it.
We will almost certainly be able to craft an artificial womb capable of nurturing a zygote through it’s entire development in the next 30 years.
Will we get to that facility via a self-driving car, or will everything just be delivered by drone?
An EV self driving car. We'll still be battling climate change in 30 years. If the species even survives the Al Gore apocalypse that happened like 5 years ago.
Disagree. That is the biology but to define it that way Balkanizes biology, chemistry, physics, and even just information and logic (without regard for behavior) in favor of the retardation every bit as much as "A man can be a woman." You don't have an individual right to reproductive freedom any more than you have an individual right to be in two places at once.
You disagree with me reinforcing your argument that reproduction is not an individual decision by pointing out that the biological classification of humans as mammals demands the participation of two organisms?
Sorry, I specifically meant to quote and disagree with just "Everything else is behavior."
It's not just behavior, it's definitive.
So you're saying that Man, Humans, The Rational Animal, in their reproductive acts, should be treated like stud-farm horses and bitches in heat in a kennel?
Speaking of kennels, you might want re-bone up on the history of Romania under Nicholai Ceausescu...right up to the real-life Brothers Grimm fairy tale happy ending.
>>most fentanyl entering the U.S. is coming through legal ports of entry, not being smuggled over the U.S.-Mexico border.
it's still being smuggled lol derp
>>"every individual has a right to make and carry out one's own reproductive decisions, including but not limited to decisions on ... abortion."
so having a part in the reproductive process I'd have say in whether or not the lady undergoes the death procedure?
You'll need to omit "one’s own".
there is no reproductive decision to be made without first my input.
"input"
Giggity!
I followed the thrust of this post.
Is this a transaction between Simple Simon and the Pie-Woman?
🙂
😉
>>Economists are worried about mid-size cities experiencing a "commercial real estate apocalypse."
one would think those super smart Economists would figure out how to send the homeless & illegals in to stop the apocalypse
>>”Do students have privacy rights when it comes to their parents?”
is “students” a false premise or is “privacy rights” about school? because no either way
LibsOfTikTok: "Fentanyl is being brought over the border by Mexican cartels"
Reason: Nuh-uh!!! Fentanyl is being brought over the border by Mexican cartels via legal ports of entry!!!
That's obviously an important distinction.
Even in steel-manning the Reason snark, let's say the point actually was about building a wall and people crossing the river over Texas floating barriers....
If you did actually build a defensible border wall across the entire border, you could deflect significant resources that are currently devoted to patrolling desert territory (and rescuing people who are in distress because they are walking across the desert). Those resources could be applied to legal ports of entry.
Also, also..... they make the argument "this is where stuff is getting caught" to equal "this is where it is all coming in". That is quite an assumption.
If 80% of illegal drugs are coming in via illegal drops from boats on the Texas coast and they just don't know anything about it, and they catch the majority of stuff coming in via legal ports of entry, you'd still see the same results we are seeing, yet most drugs would not be coming in via legal ports of entry.
So the entire point was a stretch.
Yep. My comment was 100% pure snark on Reason's position.
"Also, also….. they make the argument “this is where stuff is getting caught” to equal “this is where it is all coming in”. That is quite an assumption."
Perfect.
LibsOfTikTok: “Fentanyl is being brought over the border by Mexican cartels”
Reason: Nuh-uh!!! Fentanyl is being brought over the border by Mexican cartels via legal ports of entry!!!
Also Reason: Social Conservatives engage in word trickery unfairly.
Also Also Reason: Individual control over ports of entry is a fundamental right granted to us by our creator.
Reason: Nuh-uh!!! Fentanyl is being brought over the border by Mexican cartels via legal ports of entry!!!
I had a 500 word comment trying to suss out how Reason differentiated the two, but then I said, "Fuck it, let's go bowling".
I accidentally posted a short, pithy comment. It happens sometimes.
But with all due props to Fist, why say something in 2 sentences when you can go on a 15 paragraph rant to convey the same point?? That's my philosophy, anyway.
Someone once said to me, "Shut the fuck up, Fist." And it stuck with me.
I had a 500 word comment trying to suss out how Reason differentiated the two, but then I said, “Fuck it, let’s go bowling”.
If you two don't knock it off, I'm going to use this opportunity to explain how poorly the Reason/Cato staff understands The Jones Act.
I also notice Reason's incredibly quiet stance on Sanctuary City politicians on both coasts backing away from Sanctuary status faster than a sex worker talking to a guy who isn't interested in proffering his credit card to continue the conversation.
Los Angeles officials want to make it more difficult for RV owners to rent out their spaces.
Truth in shorter headlines - - - - - - - -
Los Angeles officials want to make it more difficult.
Take a break for a week, a new troll appears, and everyone blames me. Try the fucking mute feature retards.
It's still the same tired assholes spewing the same tired shit.
Fucking cesspool.
Everyone knows you're me! Don't deny it!
You win. I don't care anymore. I learned about Bastiat, cafehayek, Hazlitt, and a host of other cool shit before the Trumptards and socks took over. You turned the comments into shit. You can keep it.
Pussy! You're the troll you evil fuck! Everyone knows!
OK, this is probably the strangest conversation I've ever seen here, and I've seen quite a bit.
Yet you come back again and again because you crave the attention.
Personally, I think the ML troll is just as likely to be chemjeff who also has been conspicuously absent after months of daily posting. But it certainly shares your flair for hyperbolic misstatement of positions of those you disagree with.
He has you muted by I don't!
And you're so correct. Nobody leaves after getting tired of being treated like shit. They all turn into impersonating trolls!
Did the mute feature on that turd last week when he started the schtick. It really does work like a charm.
I used to enjoy the comments. I’d learn things from interesting people. Now it’s a sea of grey. After muting everyone who thinks they can impress people by calling me drunk, or the morons who call anyone who disagrees with them a leftist, there’s very few people left to talk to. The ones that are left are usually engaged with the Trumptard assholes anyway. It’s a fucking cesspool.
I say let the assholes have it.
"The good old days!"
Go the the Glibs you worthless, evil dribble down your mom's leg.
We're posting at the same time! That's proof we're the same person, right Mother's Lament?
lol... Humorously you got back exactly what you were dishing out 🙂
I made comments about stereotypes and groups. Generalities. Mostly in the form of attempts at ironic or hyperbolic humor. If anyone took them personally that only meant it was true.
"I'm a victim!" Fuck off. You're just pure evil. I don't care if you were impersonated, you're still an evil drunk. You deserve every lie said about you. Victim? Only of your own failure. You're a loser at the game of Life.
That doesn't really track as true, and I'll give you an example.
"Black people, they're all like . . . "
And if any of you black people out there take offense to whatever I was about to type, that just means it's true.
Know why you never see a black man at a square dance?
Every time someone yells "Hoedown" he thinks his woman been shot!
Every black guy I told that to laughed. Because it contains an element of truth.
Wow. Hands down, your most cringeworthy comment ever.
I don't believe that you ever told that joke to a 'black guy' let alone that he laughed at it. It invokes negative stereotypes regarding poor language skills, gun violence and behavior towards women. And how can you possibly contend it "contains an element of truth"? What person would hear a caller yell, 'Hoedown' and think someone has been shot absent gunfire?
That joke might get a laugh as self-deprecating humor, if it were being told by someone like Chris Rock, but from you? It would be far more likely to start a riot.
And you wonder why other commentors contend that you post while drunk?
I'll take "Shit That Never Happened" for $1,000, Alex.
Mostly I try to point out logical inconsistencies. Mental incongruity. Cognitive dissonance. For example if Trump followers were really into tariffs they'd give Biden credit in the same way libertarians credited Trump for deregulation. But they don't. That tells me it's about the man.
The response is always "You, you, you!"
What's the fucking point?
Run away! Coward! Run away!
Mostly I try to point out logical inconsistencies
Being able to identify them correctly might help.
Well then... Trump did a whole heck of a lot of De-Regulation as did his Supreme Court nominees. Let's hear about how much credit you'd like to give him for that. We're listening.
1. A normal person might self-reflect about the way they mock and present fellow posters arguments if other people aren’t sure if a spoofer is real or not (it’s easy to tell the difference between ML’s because the spooofer says ridiculous racist crap. Some of your spoofers posts were damn close to the hyperbolic statements you attribute to the side of the commentariat that you hate.)
2. I imagine, with tariffs in particular, that most people that supported Trump’s also support Biden’s but the articles aren’t dripping with the seething hatred that Trump is able to inspire and thus don’t bring in the views.
Using simple, everyday words of Anglo-Saxon derivation ("unborn child") instead of Latin-origin medical jargon ("fetus"), is literally Orwellian --
-- as in, it follows Orwell's advice to "Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent".
If you can't win a vote when your proposal is described using plain English, you need to sit back and admit that your goal depends on subverting democracy by tricking voters.
The language on the petition that voters signed was “fetus”.
The language on the recruitment ad when you signed up for the $0.50 crew must have been "obtuse".
Are you conveying that you were upset about people describing unborn children as fetuses?
Haven't Dems been using confusing language to obfuscate the meaning of ballot questions since forever?
Go on, finish the thought: “And, therefore, when a Republican does it, it is _________.”
Caw, Caw!
Hilarious.
'fair play'?
'good for the gander'?
'consistently applied standards'?
'hypocritical for them to criticize'?
'schadenfreude'?
'rather ironic to complain about'?
How about “participating in a race to the bottom, justifying one’s corrupt actions by pointing to the opposing team’s corrupt actions.”
How about:
'it's odd that you're only taking issue with this now'?
A laursen victimhood narrative?
Ohio Adopts Biased Ballot Summary of Abortion Amendment
it's impossible to have an "unbiased" summary of anything to do with abortion and you know it.
Also a fetus is literally an unborn child, by definition, so why is this "biased" language in your mind? Is it because you want to dehumanize the fetus? Who is biased now?
If you made it "unborn potential child", that would be closer to neutral.
Larger, much older clumps of cells want to redefine smaller clumps of cells as People.
Also a fetus is literally an unborn child, by definition...
That implies an equivalence between "fetus" and "child" that is not conceded by pro-choice voters.
Is it because you want to dehumanize the fetus?
You seem to want to assume that a fertilized egg/embryo/fetus is equivalent in all meaningful respects to a newborn or other child. Instead, you need to make that argument in a way that is objective and only uses premises everyone would agree upon.
Also, even if you it was established that a fetus was equivalent to a child, you would still need to argue that a woman could be forced to remain pregnant against her will. That is not as simple an argument to make as you might think given the inherent risks of pregnancy.
Yeah, you are so blinded that you can't see your own biases.
Do you really think "life begins at conception" folks are going to accept anything other than "murder" as the appropriately neutral language?
He's right. It is impossible to do an entirely neutral summary. You are conflating "doesn't auger against" with "neutral". In order to arrive at "neutral" you have to make some underlying assumptions that are far from neutral - and they all trace back to the definition of a human life, which ain't ever going to be neutral, scientific, or provable.
The Turtle freezes again. Top.Men.
https://twitter.com/KCPayTreeIt/status/1696959765719523696
remove that man from office immediately if only for his own sake.
Just damn! We don't just have a Gerontocracy, but a Dementia-ocracy!
This would be the real chance for a Libertarian Moment if only Libertarians were smart enough and not so divided into Wussy Wokester-vs.-Misnamed Misesians to seize the opportunity!
First Amendment experts
LOL. Good god you "journalists" are hilarious.
A 12-year-old student in Colorado Springs was removed from class for having a Gadsden flag patch on his backpack.
The teacher believed it was associated with pro-slavery. She's a teacher. To be that ignorant and teaching these kids. You can see the smirk on the boy's face too, he's just laughing at her dumb ass the whole time. It's a great video.
She’s a teacher. To be that ignorant and teaching these kids.
Boom! Another argument for school choice! Let parents use taxpayer vouchers to send their kids to private Christian schools where science teachers will tell them all about Noah’s Ark and Flood Geology!
Sure. Might come in handy for the coming climate apocalypse. You don’t want children to know how to survive it?
Why do you hate children?
I love the bigots that just assume all Christians don’t understand the process of evolution or teach it.
I didn't assume that all Christians don't understand the process of evolution or teach it in their schools, so you must not be talking about me.
Sure. Might come in handy for the coming climate apocalypse.
Flood geology, like all attempts to square a literal interpretation of Genesis with scientific fact, is not about developing theories that will be useful in understanding anything real. It is only about explaining away how scientific fact contradicts religious myth. I certainly don't see how any 'theory' that includes a world-wide flood capable of wiping out all animal life other than those on the Ark would have any application to the real planet Earth of the present and future.
Education school students are fairly consistently the least educated, intelligent, or informed college majors, with the lowest average entry test scores.
Followed *very* closely by journalists and grievance studies.
Remember, it's vital that the same people convinced the Gadsden flag was pro-slavery ALSO be allowed to discuss sex with your children and transition them without telling you.
"Do students have privacy rights when it comes to their parents?"
When my wife was 35 she was working on a masters degree, so technically she was a student. I sure hope she had a right to privacy over her parents because they would have had a heart attack if they knew what her and I were doing in our bedroom.
This is what they are referring to, right?
It is as valid to call a fetus an unborn child as it is to call feticide abortion 'care.'
The article is a list of leftist talking points.
It is as valid to call a fetus an unborn child as it is to call feticide abortion ‘care.’
Sure, it's valid if begging the question is your default method of argument.
Speaking of the darkest corners of the deep state, Biden just announced they found another accounting error (notice which direction it goes) allowing him to send a few more hundred million to Ukraine. But what I REALLY want to know is, did Janet Yellen get High? Hunter S. Thompson wants to know!
Whoops, wrong thread, but totes topicalicious.
Fuck Janet Yellen. Journalists in Kansas are under attack.
There is nothing misleading about "unborn child." "Fetus" is simply a developmental stage, like toddler or adolescent. The child as such exists at all stages of development. Nobody says a toddler or an adolescent isn't a child. It's the Dementiacrats who are trying to play word games, as they always do. Do 'libertarians' not read Orwell?
I mean, some people don't treat adolescents as children, but it depends on the political narrative they're going for in the moment.
For instance, many Democrats think that 9 year olds should be able to gender-transition, 16 year olds should be able to vote, DC should be given statehood, etc. We have some that even comment here that think that they can consent to child rape.
But also think that a college graduate should be able to stay on their parent's insurance until age 30. So . . .
Can'y buy a gun until 21.
Well, that's what they tried.
https://thereload.com/judge-issues-nationwide-injunction-against-under-21-handgun-sales-ban/
omg factually accurate synonyms nooooooooo the horror.....!
ps. since when is Reason a participant in playing Language Police?
pps. since when is Libertarianism a movement that hides behind comfortable euphemism instead of just unapologetically asserting their rights the most objective way possible?
Supporting the right to abortion is, indisputably, supporting/defending the intentional and voluntary act of terminating an in utero human being, almost exclusively for reasons of personal convenience. If you support that, then why not own it in the starkest of terms? Why try to hide or obfuscate it even the slightest bit?
Also, acknowledge the racial angle while you're at it. Supporting/defending the intentional and voluntary act of terminating an in utero human being, almost exclusively for reasons of personal convenience, especially and by a wide margin those of black/brown people.
Truth isn't pretty. But it's truth. No need to gussy it up. Just tell it like it is.
Why word games?
I suspect the obfuscation is an attempt to avoid the also sometimes inconvenient inalienable right to life.
OK. Most abortions are on leftists so it's voluntary eugenics. Ungussied truth!
The unborn don’t have a political affiliation.
Yeah; If you cut off your fingernails you're intentionally and voluntarily terminating a human being!!!!! So it's only obvious that those Gov-Guns get involved in your personal life and STOP you from cutting off your fingernails!!!! /s
Completely and utterly power-mad dictators all over the place.
Set the "human being" FREE!!! Or just shut-the-F'Up with all the BS.
I don’t think the ballot is targeting people to whom words have no meaning.
That would definitely be Pro-Life narratives. Babies and Children running around everywhere getting murdered and absolutely none of them found to be existing anywhere except in unicorn fairy-tale imaginations.
Have you ever seen even pictures of what is removed from women during the process of abortion? Have you ever seen a baby?
You’re a sick person.
Yes to both; but I don't imagine puppies in cloud shapes and lobby the gov-guns to force others to UN-Constitutionally pay to have the cloud permanently contained because I think it looks like a puppy.
Pro-Life lost any credibility to 'reasonable' when they over-threw Roe v Wade (Individual Right to ones own body) and currently are nothing but another power-mad culture-gang of gov-gun worshipers.
As is so fitting; since the movement was started by the Catholic Church of which was Democrats (by large) chosen religion.
A human being's fingernail is not the same thing as a human being. It's weird that this needs to be explained to anyone.
Also, you'll notice I didn't take a position for or against the intentional and voluntary act of terminating an in utero human being almost exclusively for reasons of personal convenience. Just saying folks should be honest about whatever that position is.
Is there something you object to about that? About being honest and candid?
Are you honestly ambivalent about the murder of helpless innocent human beings?
Insofar as this particular conversation is concerned.
If we want to debate the morality (or proposed legality/illegality) of committing abortion, or of the morality of those who defend/support or oppose doing so - that's an entirely separate conversation. One that's difficult to have with people who talk about the subject in clouded terms and veiled euphemism.
That doesn’t answer the question.
I wanted to demonstrate if you would speak honestly as you expect others to, or if you were a hypocrite.
I have.
How did it not answer the question?
You asked if I was ambivalent about the murder of helpless, innocent human beings. I answered "insofar as this particular conversation is concerned."
Meaning: yes, I am ambivalent about it when it comes to discussing candor and frankness in arguments as opposed to hiding behind euphemism and obfuscation. Because "the murder of helpless innocent human beings" has nothing to do with that subject. It's simply one example of where it's applied.
You seem to instead want to discuss abortion itself - which I can assure you, I'm far from ambivalent about. But, as I said - that's an entirely separate conversation.
You said, “ I didn’t take a position for or against the intentional and voluntary act of terminating an in utero human being almost exclusively for reasons of personal convenience. Just saying folks should be honest about whatever that position is.”
So, do what you expect others to, state your position, be honest.
Your attempt to obfuscate this simple request is intellectually dishonest.
So, you are asking for my stance on abortion. Abortion itself.
Does it matter? If so, why? Consider what I’ve said to date. Because I haven’t been talking about abortion itself. I’ve been making a point about the way people talk about abortion as they try to advocate one way or the other.
Pro-Life, Pro-Choice – both are kind of obfuscating terms to begin with (the more accurate terms are pro-abortion and anti-abortion). But, you’ll find that pro-abortion people don’t actually like to acknowledge what abortion IS – hence why pro-borts object to replacing “fetus” with “unborn child,” as they rely on the sterilizing terms to comfort themselves. And anti-abortion people like to… emotionalize the subject – how did you put it… murder of the helpless innocent?
So manipulative either way.
Abortion is the intentional and voluntary act of terminating an in utero human being almost exclusively for reasons of personal convenience.
Why do people just not SAY that?
Because it’s a hard pill to swallow. One side has to admit that they’re gleefully killing tiny humans out of extremely selfish and irresponsible reasons, the other has to admit that they’re willing to look a teenage girl in the eye and say, “Sorry, tough shit – I don’t care that your dad raped you, you WILL carry to term and bear his progeny because it’s the right thing to do – even if it creates a potentially fatal risk to your health.”
But neither has the integrity to do so. Whether they refuse to admit the reality to themselves, or they’re just trying to manipulate others – if we can’t have an honest conversation about what we’re dealing with, then what does it really matter what side anyone takes?
This issue is abortion.
There is nothing emotional or manipulative about stating that the unborn are helpless and innocent because that’s exactly what they are. If that truth compels you, good, Reality isn’t manipulative, recognizing it is in your interest.
Recognizing positions and principles matter because they indicate actions people will take including what rules they will follow. Rules concerning communication.
It matters that we state whether we value right over wrong, good over evil, truth over lies to determine if the person can even participate in an honest conversation.
Otherwise the conversation would be pointless rhetoric, denial and nonsense.
You seem to recognize this in your request that others state their positions honestly, yet you refuse to. That’s hypocrisy.
Maybe you don’t have a position because you don’t understand any of the issues concerning abortion. Though it doesn’t take much insight to have a position on murdering the helpless and innocent or even self defence.
I want to have meaningful conversations and have stated many times that I value the truth as discerned through the use of correctly applied logic and science. This is good and right and true.
I hope that more people would but when it becomes apparent they don’t I’ll settle for exposing it for everyone else to see.
> This issue is abortion.
No, this issue is the terminology in which we discuss abortion. Are we being honest when we discuss it, or are we going for persuasive and/or manipulative rhetoric?
If you want to engage in a crusade beyond that, go for it. I'm not here to convince you that abortion is right or wrong. I'm here to tell you that people who obfuscate and use euphemism and pander to emotion can't sell their argument on its merits.
Which means you suck at this.
You want to end abortion? Up your game.
You said, “this issue is the terminology in which we discuss abortion”.
Wrong again.
That makes the issue about abortion because you can’t rationally discuss the terminology of abortion without understanding and discussing abortion first.
> you can’t rationally discuss the terminology of abortion without understanding and discussing abortion first.
What is it you think is misunderstood? I defined it: Abortion is the intentional and voluntary act of terminating an in utero human being almost exclusively for reasons of personal convenience.
From there, there are two general positions on the subject - neither of which can seem to be honest about what they're talking about. (Likely because they've got social/political axes to grind.)
Try stepping back from any prejudices you might have on the subject, and just consider it objectively and analytically. Because you can't get to "this is good/bad" without first establishing "this is."
Which is what I'm doing, and you're avoiding.
I don't mind if you want to change wording from 'Fetus' to 'Unborn Child', or vice versa.
I'll see them as the same thing anyway: two words signifying yet another rock in the wagon that our mother the earth has to pull.
That's why I want abortion to be safe, as cheap as possible, and I don't want the women to have to wade through a sea of screaming ignor-anuses to get what us Green-libertarians see as a sacrament. Eight Billion of us is enough.
You advocate murdering helpless innocent babies.
Do us all a favour and off yourself coward.
What babies? In the land of fantasy-fairy tales?
Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt.
“The unconscious defense mechanism of denying the existence of painful facts.This technique enables an individual to escape from intolerable thoughts, wishes, actions, or events and the anxiety which they produce. In denying their existence he is not lying or malingering, nor does he deliberately repudiate the ideas or consciously dismiss them from mind. He simply fails to perceive that they exist.”
You’re worse. You deny the existence of human beings to justify their genocide in your sick mind.
I’ll bet that you’re a diagnosed schizophrenic.