Some Drug Warriors Just Won't Concede Defeat
Harder law enforcement leads to harder drugs.

There's a fine art to refusing to learn lessons that are right in front of your eyes. A recent newspaper column demonstrated mastery of that art, managing to simultaneously acknowledge the failures of America's drug policy while calling for more of the same. The author acknowledged that mandatory minimums do no good and then suggested that the right course of action is to prosecute drug dealers harder. But harder drug law enforcement gets you harder drug problems.
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Off to a Good Start
"News coverage of a Mesa police officer losing consciousness in his patrol car from an overdose certainly highlights, if sensationally, the crisis that is opioids, in particular fentanyl," wrote Abe Kwok, editorial page planner for the Arizona Republic. "As critics such as the libertarian think tank Cato Institute note, harsh mandatory sentencing laws do nothing to blunt narcotic drugs' effects."
He added that "the institute pointed to a 1,500% spike in methamphetamine deaths in the United States between 2006 and 2021, following voter-approved Proposition 301 in Arizona that imposed mandatory minimum prison sentences for possessing, transferring, selling, distributing or manufacturing meth."
Kwok also acknowledged that other restrictive policies, especially limitations on opioid prescriptions "did little to slow deaths from overdoses but created their own set of problems, such as blocking access to relief for chronic pain sufferers." This is an important point championed by the late Siobhan Reynolds and the Pain Relief Network over a decade ago and still a matter of serious concern for many Americans. Last year, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention finally acknowledged that opioid guidelines are being interpreted inflexibly. The CDC emphasized that "some policies purportedly drawn from the 2016 CDC Opioid Prescribing Guideline have been notably inconsistent with it and have gone well beyond its clinical recommendations" resulting in "untreated and undertreated pain."
So far, so good for Kwok. Except, he refuses to take these arguments to their logical conclusion.
Missing the Point
"Most people know, especially those who peddle the drug, that just a tiny amount of fentanyl can be lethal," Kwok writes. He calls for "law enforcement agencies to commit to aggressively investigate the direct source of the drug(s) in an overdose fatality and for prosecutors' offices to vigorously pursue charges when there's sufficient evidence."
Umm… No. If Kwok had read further in the Cato Institute piece by Jeffrey Singer to which he'd linked, he would understand why this makes no sense.
"The harder the law enforcement, the harder the drug," Singer, an Arizona surgeon and senior fellow at the Cato Institute, wrote while praising a veto of mandatory minimums legislation by Arizona Gov. Katie Hobbs. "Enforcing prohibition incentivizes those who market prohibited substances to develop more potent forms that are easier to smuggle in smaller sizes and subdivide into more units to sell."
What Singer calls the "Iron Law of Prohibition" is why bootleggers specialized in distilled liquor instead of beer. The law is why powdered cocaine was concentrated into crack. And the iron law is why headlines about drugs now feature fentanyl, a potent synthetic opioid many times stronger than heroin. If prohibitionist policies continue, expect illegal products of the future to be marketed in a concentrated form to evade detection. Because these drugs are so potent they allow little room for leeway, making it relatively easy to overdose.
The fact that these drugs have been driven underground where they are often adulterated and of uncertain dosage makes them that much more dangerous.
Which is to say, the illegal fentanyl market that Abe Kwok worries about now is a direct result of the aggressive law enforcement efforts and vigorous prosecutions that he champions. More aggressive arrests and vigorous prosecutions will get you more results along the lines of illegal trafficking in big-bang-for-your-buck drugs like fentanyl. "Tranq"—the street name of the animal tranquilizer xylazine—is already here to fill the role of the next nasty high to gain users and news coverage.
Oddly, Kwok admits that his preference for harder law enforcement won't accomplish anything but doesn't budge from the idea.
"Pursuing criminal charges in those roughly 1,300 cases may not make a dent in drug supply or demand," the Arizona Republic writer notes of a flurry of drug-related deaths in Maricopa County. "But they would represent a closer step toward justice."
Justice? Of what kind?
The Real Lesson from Drug War Failure
Instead of doubling down on failure, what if Kwok had been willing to read Singer's March testimony to the U.S. House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance, which is linked from the Cato piece he cited? Or, more likely, what would he have passed along if he'd been more inclined to take the testimony to heart and to suggest remedies he fears his audience doesn't want to hear?
"If policymakers double down on the same prohibitionist policies they have employed for over 50 years, deaths from illicit drug overdoses will continue to rise. Doing the same thing repeatedly, with even more vigor this time, will not yield a different result," Singer told lawmakers. "Prohibition makes the black market dangerous because people who buy drugs on the black market can never be sure of the drug's purity, dosage, or even if it is the drug they think they are buying."
Singer recommends ending drug prohibition to allow for a legal market that deals in products of known dosage and purity. A legal market won't stop people from getting high, but it will end the escalation between punitive law enforcement on the one hand and drug innovation and potency on the other.
Short of legalization, the Arizona surgeon suggests lawmakers focus on eliminating laws that stand in the way of harm reduction, such as those that criminalize drug paraphernalia (driving users to share needles and diseases) and bar the distribution of drug test strips (rendering it difficult to identify drugs). Making naloxone available over-the-counter was a good step towards reducing deaths since it reverses the effects of opioid overdoses. That's an approach that gets law enforcement out of the way rather than doubling down on failure.
Stepping back from prohibitionist policies that Kwok concedes do harm and accomplish little if any good might not accord with his sense of "justice." But recognizing reality by abandoning counterproductive authoritarianism might just make the world a somewhat better place and save lives.
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Again, with more clarification. It is obviously impossible to stop some people from abusing drugs. Often, this leads to them violating the rights of others- San Francisco for example. But it is wrong to place them in jail for this. So, in order to respect the rights of all citizens inolved, the only real solution is to send them all to Greenland or Puerto Rico. Send them food and supplies so they do not die. Allow them to return if they follow conditions. Otherwise there will be the drug war again.
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Was the bit about it being wrong to jail people for violating other people's rights sarcasm? Because I think that's the bit that it's actually right to jail people for, not simply "using substances of which the State disapproves".
I do believe people have a right to exist on a public sidewalk. Camping on that public sidewalk, with or without tent, should not be a reason to jail someone.
So they can camp out & shit in front of someone's store or home? And nothing should be done?
I'm going to call rat's ass on that. That's how you end up like LA, SF, & Portland.
Well, my original point was that you can't violate their rights to be there while protecting your rights to not have them their. So protect your rights by shipping them overseas.
They don’t have a right to be there, not under our form of government or under libertarianism.
Prosecute only if they shit or trespass. Cite at the same level as létting one's dog shit on someone else's property.
They don’t have a right to be there. Under our form of government, voters have decided that.
Under a libertarian form of government, the HOA decides that.
Under no form of government do you get to camp and shit on sidewalks.
The whole thing is retarded keyboard defecation. Unless Greenland or Puerto Rico has magic dirt and rbike doesn't give a shit about fucking over the natives there, there's no reason to prefer it, and plenty of moral, fiscal, and pragmatic reasons not to prefer it/them over (e.g.) San Quentin.
I had been hoping it was sarcasm and I was just missing it. If the sentence I asked about had been, that would have presumably made the Greenland comment tongue-in-cheek as well.
Apparently not.
*shrug* Madness.
Why do you hate the people of Greenland and Puerto Rico?
No. It's not wrong.
faster, better, cheaper is a general market phenomenon ... not just for black markets
What aspect of powder to crack cocaine qualifies as "faster", "better" or "cheaper"? The drug changes highlighted in the article above were not changes desired or instigated by drug consumers.
The drug war is a jobs program. Local police, the feds, the prison industrial complex, big pharma, black market dealers and cartels all benefit handsomely and the only ones that have to pay are disgusting drug users, tax payers and the constitution.
Must be an old stock photo. A cop with a wheelgun these days? Not enough ammo to shoot the attacking Corgi (and anyone nearby) 12 times.
From the script on the tailgate, looks like it might be a region of the world where they shoot dogs for food.
The photographer, Sornwut Tubtawee, is from Thailand. He seems to have a sub-specialty of taking photographs of people being handcuffed, or led away in handcuffs, all from behind. He has a number of photographs that may be from the same day, and all of the police are wearing berets. Note that Reason cropped the head of the officer from the original photo. Based on the script on the back of the truck, my guess is Reason lazily (shocker--absolute shocker-that Reason is lazy!) picked a generic photo of a Thai police officer arresting some random dude that had absolutely nothing to do with the actual story.
But drug-warrioring pays so well!
Portland drugs are largely legal and addicts continue to seek out harder drugs. Your thesis is wrong.
Denver is also a case study in how legalization has failed to deliver pretty much everything the "legalize it" crowd promised, outside of additional tax revenue for the state. I believed all that bullshit, too, until the actual results happened in the wake of pot and now shrooms being legalized.
These people would be a lot more honest if they said, "Hey maaaaaaaaaan, I just want to get high," as opposed to all the other empirically disproved nonsense about the supposed social benefits of enabling drug addiction.
What was promised? And what were the actual results that you find disappointing?
Prices would come down. Violence would stop. Dealers and cartels would vanish. The heavens would part. Politicians would see the folly of their ways. Dogs and cats would live together...
When Trump promised to bring coal back, Libertarians rightly recognized that coal wasn't coming back in any real way and, in their infinite brilliance, responded with "Learn to code." Well, you know what? By pretty much the same principles of economics, human behavior, and even libertarianism; drug dealers, cartels, and users consuming beyond their means are not just going to learn to code just because you legalize their goods and services ex cathedra. Legalize it may be a good idea, anyone by pretty much their own precepts would be retarded to turn their idea over to politicians and expect it to turn out well, and, per your own precepts, "Hey! That's not how I imagined it happening! I had the best of intentions!" doesn't exculpate you from your own, voluntary, self-retardation.
I realize I'm quibbling, but the only legalization that's taken place in Colorado is weed, and those weren't the high priced drugs that were inspiring violence by cartels anyway. Most people don't have to commit armed robbery to feed a weed habit. It's cocaine and heroin and meth that are expensive and violent.
I realize I’m quibbling, but the only legalization that’s taken place in Colorado is weed, and those weren’t the high priced drugs that were inspiring violence by cartels anyway.
That's beside the point. The claim was that legalization would solve these issues, and they didn't. In fact, a stroll through the downtown shows that it just exacerbated a lot of existing social dysfunctions.
There was no legalization, rather non-enforcement. They're not the same. Non-enforcement does not have the benefits of legalization like lower prices and accurate dosages, and disputes settled in court rather than in the street.
Prices would come down. I'll give you this much. This was claimed and hasn't happened. But states where it's legal to grow your own, pot is practically free if you have a little motivation or a friend with some.
Violence would stop. Dealers and cartels would vanish.
Nirvana fallacy... for pot legalization? Come on.
Nirvana fallacy… for pot legalization? Come on.
Sorry, but the claim that the backs of cartels would be broken was a very specific argument that was echoed frequently in these comment sections. This is just a tacit admission that it didn't happen.
Turns out massive criminal enterprises are run by people who are lot smarter than the stoners think they are.
Prices would come down. I’ll give you this much. This was claimed and hasn’t happened. But states where it’s legal to grow your own, pot is practically free if you have a little motivation or a friend with some.
Violence would stop. Dealers and cartels would vanish.
Nirvana fallacy… for pot legalization? Come on.
This is actually a false dichotomy, or cherry picking. All were promised and, by your own admission, not all have come true. The assertion being, assuming you’re not an abjectly retarded, bad faith sophist, promises made are and were generally unmet and that’s demonstrably true.
Illinois legalized weed, violence is up. Several other states and municipalities legalized drugs, prices and violence are between largely unchanged and up and it’s not because the feds have picked the slack that local law enforcement has dropped. Try to stop doing your side a disservice by being so retarded.
I have a hard time believing that anyone made these claims about legalizing only pot. I know I didn’t. I think you’re conflating total drug legalization arguments with pot legalization arguments.
Let me give you a revised set of expectation for drug or just pot legalization from my perspective:
Total drug legalization: Things will be somewhat better than they are today, but the world will not become a utopia. Drug cartels will lose some funding, but will not disappear. Inner city violence and property theft will improve, but will not disappear. Police corruption and asset forfeiture abuse will improve, but will not disappear. Less people will overdose or otherwise destroy their lives with drugs but these problems will not disappear. Drug use will increase and addiction will likewise increase, but only slightly.
Pot legalization: Less people will be arrested for pot crimes. Cannabis use will increase but probably not addiction. Some people will grow their own and save a lot of money.
Try to stop doing your side a disservice by being so retarded.
Why do you weaken your otherwise eloquent argument with statements like this?
I have a hard time believing that anyone made these claims about legalizing only pot. I know I didn’t.
You didn't stipulate:
Go fuck yourself with a rusty shovel, retard:
Go fuck yourself with a rusty shovel, retard:
<Try to stop doing your side a disservice by being so retarded.
The irony.
Legalization works in a libertarian society because drug addicts are ostracized from society asks all private property and die off somewhere.
What you imagine is a ludicrous pipe dream.
Is that why alcohol legalization works?
Alcohol legalization works because alcohol is a fundamentally different drug from opiates, meth, etc.
NOYB2, exactly where is drug legalization? Non-enforcement is not the same as repeal and legalization.
Also, NOYB2, alcohol IS similar to hard drugs. The crime associated with each would be similar if they were similarly legalized. But, non-enforcement does have the legal protections that legalization has.
Correction to above: But, non-enforcement does not have the legal protections that legalization has.
What's your point? What does that have to do with anything I said?
It's nice that you believe that. But when you make arguments about the level of crime and the costs that enforcement imposes on society, you are making a nanny-state, authoritarian, progressive argument.
Mad.Casual
Promises if prohibition is repealed and drugs are legalized. That has not happened for most drugs anywhere. Non-enforcement is not the same as legalization. Unless there is legalization, few legitimate businesses will be in an enterprise that lacks the protection that a legal system provides.
What was promised? And what were the actual results that you find disappointing?
1) The backs of the cartels would be broken--Never happened
2) The black market would dry up--Never happened
3) Drug crimes would plummet--Never happened
4) Addiction would become less severe and less common--Never happened
Really? This was promised for pot legalization?! And you believed it? I'm sorry.
Thanks for conceding the point.
Those are the benefits of hard drug legalization not cannibis legalization. Crime has never been associated with cannibis. Legalizing cannibis stopped the non-existent crime. “Hard” drugs have never been legalized, though a very few jurisdictons have adopted a policy of non-enforcement. Non-enforcement is not the same as legalization. The fact that you would equate the two is a form of strawman argument or false equivalence, and is indicative of the fundamental dishonesty of prohibitionism and conservatism
Your rebuttal is wrong. It is the illegality of production and sales that drive increased potency (which have not been legalized in Portland or anywhere else).
You're a retard. All kinds of legal, selectively legal, and illegal compounds are refined for potency and efficacy and have been since well before Wilson took office. The idea that we'd all still be eating blue lotus flowers, chewing coca beans, and eating fermented fruit from under fruit trees if it weren't for prohibition is just stupid.
Your argument is a false dichotomy fallacy.
No, if taken literally, the second sentence is an argumentum et absurdum. Not meaning to be taken literally and intended to follow from the second sentence instead of splitting them falsely as you have done, it speaks to several various post hoc, reductionist, and scapegoating fallacies you commit with your assertion.
You aren't funny. You aren't clever. You aren't particularly smart or well reasoned. It's not clear what side you're supporting, other than yourself, just that you're doing a very poor job of it.
Your argument was to point out other things become more potent without black market influence, therefore the black market does not influence potency. Either the black market causes 100% of the drive for more potency or it has no influence: False dichotomy.
You aren’t clever. You aren’t particularly smart or well reasoned.
If I don't make sense to you or seem smart to you, I know I'm doing fine.
Drug addicts choose more potent drugs because that’s the biological nature of addiction. Legality has nothing to do with it.
Your views are utterly foolish.
What would you rather shove up your ass? A kilo of heroin or a gram of fentanyl?
Why is fentanyl cut with inert compounds to be sold on the street?
Addicts want fentanyl. It gets cut to make it easier to dose and distribute.
The fact that it is easier to transport is a benefit for dealers, but not the driver of potency.
You should research the history of this. People were using fenanyl unknowingly for years thinking they were buying heroin. Dealers/traffickers made the switch secretly. Sellers still attempt to cut fentanyl to the potency of street heroin.
Users don't want more concentrated heroin. Heroin can kill with a single dose. There's no benefit to the user of a more concentrated opiate other than price.
Opioid addicts want fentanyl for the same reason it is used in medicine: it is rapidly acting and easy to administer.
The fact that dealers add it clandestinely to heroin is no more surprising than food companies adding MSG and flavor enhancers to processed food: it makes their product more desirable. Whether users know about the ingredient or not is irrelevant.
It gets cut to make it easier to dose and distribute.
It's diluted before the addict gets it. Think about it.
Opioids always need to be "diluted" since they are solids. A more concentrated form is easier to dilute, requires less volume to inject, and acts faster. That's desirable both in medicine and to addicts.
I don't think that's true. From what I've heard, heroin gives 'em a better high, whereas fentanyl puts 'em to sleep.
Initially, drug addicts seek "better highs". But eventually, it becomes largely about avoiding pain.
Ate they actually legal, or is the law is simply not being enforced? That's not legalization does not have the full benefits of legalization.
Of course, they do. No one claims they won't continue to seek out harder drugs. This is what addicts do. But arresting and incarcerating them for being addicts has been the only tool in the drug warrior's toolbelt for decades and is failing miserably. No sane person can claim that it works. This is a view that has resulted in the US having a higher incarceration rate than China, one of the world's leaders in Human rights violations. Is it so hard to believe that doing the same thing that has failed for decades is insane? Can you accept that there might be a more effective way? apparently not.
I've come around to a bit different thought process on this.
Legalize all drugs, of course, and cut down on the drug war and penalties for production, distribution, and especially possession and usage. Even if government has the power to regulate, they don't have an outright power to ban or make illegal substances that people want. The idea that tobacco and alcohol are legal but you can be arrested for buying too much hydrocodone is a nonsense policy. I routinely walk out of the liquor store with enough alcohol to kill myself with and nobody bats an eye.
But we can't overlook the bad outcomes that come from drug addiction. Enforce vagrancy laws. The public commons are for the enjoyment of the public-sidewalks are meant for people to walk on, not a public lavatory that you don't have to clean. If the reason someone is vagrant is that they're an addict, sentence them to rehab. Enforce the other bad outcomes from drug addiction-petty theft, car break-ins. If the root cause is drug addiction, again, drug rehabilitation is the sentence. And if they refuse to cooperate with rehab, that's when we move to harsher and more serious sentences.
I do expect, in the short-term, a lot of negative consequences would come from ending the drug war and moving to legalization. I think you'd have a temporary explosion of cases of addiction. But really, addiction is so destructive that people aren't any more likely to choose to live that way if the substance is legal than if it's illegal. When you legalize it, though, people can get their drugs from people who aren't criminals. You remove turf wars-or at least, you turn them into the free market, where people have to compete by having the best products at the lowest prices. You remove the reason for people who simply want a substance to associate with the type of people who will beat up, kill, and murder.
This won't stop the incentives for people who are in the throes of addiction to commit crimes trying to steal drugs to feed their habits. But what it will allow are legal recourses-your drug dealer can't call the police if a rival gang shows up with guns to steal all of his product, but a pharmacy can. A pharmacy can post visible armed security, unlike a trap house.
But you have to actually enforce the laws. You have to continue to enforce property crimes, you have to enforce proper use of the public commons. We do need to deal with the homeless problem, but that's an issue for private charity, and it's a complicated issue that's related to the drug problem.
I think that's a good analysis and points Thinking Mind, but I do have to ask JD so if we make soft drinks illegal we'll come up with worse soft drinks? I think people just innovate and make new things for the market so I'm not on board with his thesis basis.
Well, it's certainly been tried--we've spent billions on it--but the US is WAY different culturally from Singapore. That's why it works in Singapore but not here, same as Scandanvian socialism working when it's done by and for the benefit of Scandanavian socialists. Introduce "diversity" into the mix and the system quickly becomes a zero-sum game of grifting as much from the system as possible.
Woops, this was supposed to go under Naime's post below.
Good analysis. I have just one issue:
This won’t stop the incentives for people who are in the throes of addiction to commit crimes trying to steal drugs to feed their habits.
In a prohibition market, much of the price of drugs is driven due to the legal risks sellers take. If there were no legal risks to taking a truckload of fentanyl over the Mexico border, who wouldn’t do it to make millions. Supply would adjust to demand and prices would drop drastically (if we could keep politicians from over taxing).
In a legal market many addicts could afford their fix with a menial job, or by begging, like boozers do. Associated theft and crime would be reduced.
Prohibition is, by your own precepts, hardly the only way to influence a market. Altering peoples' consciousness and inducing dependency also disrupts free and fair exchange between consenting equal/peer-level individuals.
There may be a question as to how much entirely voids a market of free and fair exchange, but that's a question of degrees, not kind.
In a legal market many addicts could afford their fix with a menial job, or by begging, like boozers do. Associated theft and crime would be reduced.
Yes, potentially. But alcohol is also legal, and you have people who are so addicted and driven by their addiction to alcohol that they can't maintain a job. Historically, this was part of why there was a taboo against opioids-well, in addition to the historical prejudices against it that came from opium tariffs and smuggling. Historically, most jobs WERE menial labor, and yet there were still people who got addicted to opium and were unable to hold down jobs. Of course, this wasn't a completely free market, as opium was still largely illicit due to tariffs and shipping restrictions on it that led to rampant smuggling, but it was at a time that simple possession of opioids was not even contemplated as a crime.
Free market actors still leave people a lot of room to make bad choices. I believe it would be naïve to imagine that people would still commit thefts or crimes to feed their drug addictions if we simply legalize it. In the long term, it would lower property crimes and lead to a higher rate of functional drug addicts, like we have a high rate of functional alcoholics. When you think about celebrities (for example, Johnny Depp) who can avoid the legal penalties for being persistent users of illicit drugs, they're often functional in their disability, so surely if drugs were cheaper and easier to obtain, there would be more cases. But in the short term, we'd absolutely see a massive spike of overdose deaths, property crimes, and people going into addictive spirals. No politician is willing to take the massive scandal that would happen if they pushed for broad legalization and saw a big short-term spike of ODs.
This is essentially the place I'm at on the topic right now. Legalize everything, but actually enforce the laws against antisocial behavior. Put the people who need it into rehab, and put the people who need it into psychiatric treatment, and put the people who need both in both.
It is not a violation of a person's rights to hold them accountable for their behavior, irrespective of whether that behavior is purely voluntary, committed under the influence of intoxicants, or committed under the influence of mental illness. The rest of the country is under no obligation to suffer because some people can't control themselves, whatever the root cause.
It is not a violation of a person’s rights to hold them accountable for their behavior, irrespective of whether that behavior is purely voluntary, committed under the influence of intoxicants, or committed under the influence of mental illness.
Absolutely!
If the drugs are legal, the prices will be so low, the addicts wouldn't have to steal to support their habits, or at least not as much. Many, if not most, would support a drug habit on their wages, like alcoholics do..
There’s still non functioning alcoholics out there, who become homeless due to an inability to stay sober enough to get work. And there likely would be a short term spike of more people becoming drug addicts if you broadly legalized everything.
'....Singapore has one of the lowest rates of drug abuse in the world: ...Tough laws and effective enforcement are a strong deterrent against drug sales and consumption. Stiff penalties punish those who disregard the law and deter others...The death penalty is imposed only for the most serious offenses, including drug trafficking. Singapore does not take joy in the death penalty. But Singaporeans understand the need for it and strongly support it...' WAPO editorial explaining how Singapore is perhaps the only Country in the world where they actually declare and engage in a war against drugs vs the phony politicians and libertarians who say the non existent US '..war against drugs ..' has failed so we should surrender. LOL. A war on drugs has never been tried here.
A war on drugs has never been tried here.
Either has gun control by those standards.
In The murder and violent crime rate is much lower in Singapore than the US. Of course, you'd get 5-10 years imprisonment for owning a gun. Firing that weapon is punishable by the death penalty.
Is that the standard you want to live by?
^This^ One can be whipped or be put to death for various gun charges in Singapore. Be careful of that for which one wishes.
Singapore doesn't have the multicultural popuation that the U.S. has tjat commits most of the crime. I doubt that the crime rate in Singapore is lower than that of non-hispanic whites in the U.S.
The solution is to set up these empty hotels and office spaces as glorified insane asylums, and then let them OD without intervention. It will get the homeless off of the streets, the homeless population will plummet, and everyone else can still get hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.
The reality, which homeless advocates and liberaltarians don't want to admit, is that the VAST majority of drug-addicted homeless don't want to be "helped" in any way other than getting their next fix. When societies become Calhoun rat experiments, sometimes the humane thing to do is let the addiction become a self-correcting issue. Not glorifying people getting stoned out of their gourd would be a benefit, too.
Well, it would certainly be less expensive than trying to forcibly straighten these people out.
Maybe lock them in these vertical asylums and let them die off after they've been forced clean and are on enough psych meds to actually make a conscious decision to end their lives that way? Give them at least one chance at rehabilitation before simply writing them off?
It wouldn't be cheap, but it might still be less expensive than the way we're fighting the War On Some Drugs now...
Nobody is seriously trying to forcibly straighten out drug users. That’s the problem.
I don't know what libertarians don't want to admit that, but it sounds like a narrative you made up to disparage libertarians. Maybe you should focus on issues and leave the snarky ignoramus act for someone else?
Maybe idiots like you shouldn’t be pushing this utopian fantasy that legalization is the cure for social ills, especially after reality renders that fantasy moot.
But then, I realize I'm talking with someone who parroted White Mike's "BLM membership card" argument, so being excessively pedantic is the only tactic you have here.
No libertarian I've ever heard or read has ever said that legalization is a cure for social ills. But by all means cite a libertarian who said or wrote that and I'll concede. Until then you're a bloviating blowhard.
No, only less dystopian than the current prohibition and drug war.
I don’t know what libertarians don’t want to admit that
The same ones that overtly ignore violent, infectious, chemically and socially dependent illegal immigrants in order to pretend that immigration, specifically without criteria against violence, infectious disease, chemical/social dependence, or other, is always a net positive.
A bedrock principle of libertarianism is that you bear the costs of your choices. That principle makes libertarianism feasible.
You promote the leftist fantasy that legalizing drugs results in harm reduction. That isn’t libertarianism.
Yeah because all know there are only 2 choices in treating the health problems of addiction - utilizing the same tools we use to treat crime problems or doing nothing at all.
Some might say there's a middle-of-the-road where we provide addicts resources to get clean AS WELL as providing them some resources to create stable lives for themselves oriented around healthy decision-making. Formerly, we called this thing "community" but apparently in 2023, authoritarian types believe that wielding the coercive force of the state (police forces) is a substitute for communities.
"Pursuing criminal charges in those roughly 1,300 cases may not make a dent in drug supply or demand," the Arizona Republic writer notes of a flurry of drug-related deaths in Maricopa County. "But they would prove that I'm a complete, blithering idiot who should not be writing opinion pieces!"
There ... FIFY, Abe!
..But they would prove that there are, blithering prohibitionist idiots who should not be making policy decisions.
There … FIFY, MWA!
I'm in favor of legalization and I get the concept of more enforcement leading to smaller and stronger quantities of hard drugs being developed but won't the number of overdoses and deaths eventually plateau and fall, rather than keep rising if, say, junkies start doing something even stronger than fentanyl? Won't the existing customer base die off more quickly than it can replenish itself?
Probably no because the junkies don't actually want to die. The deaths are accidental. The rate of accidents is incrementally increased by prohibitionary policies but other efforts (including by the junkies themselves) will prevent the rate of accidents from reaching the replenishment rate.
Efforts like harm reduction.
Just to be clear: harm reduction is not a libertarian policy.
“Harder law enforcement leads to harder drugs.”
There is zero evidence for this.
Slight disagreement. The laws of gravitation and diffusion mechanics do a pretty good job dictating that lighter and more potent drugs will always be preferred. Our ability to sway things much one way or the other pales in comparison.
What drives demand for ever more potent opiates is the biology of opiate addiction and the ability of chemistry and China to fulfill the demand cheaply.
It’s similar to why pot has gotten absurdly and dangerously potent.
re: "There is zero evidence for this."
You mean other than the rather extensive evidence from the natural experiment that our society has put itself through over the past half-century? Some of which is summarized in the article above and a lot more documented in the Cato studies which are mentioned above? Sure, other than all that, there's "zero evidence".
Correlation is not causation.
And the correlation doesn’t even hold, since social problems from drugs have become worse where and when drug use has become more tolerated.
In any case, none of that has anything to do with libertarianism. Legalizing drugs in a social welfare state is not libertarian policy.
Statistics indicate that for a long time Americans spent a falling share of income on alcoholic beverages. They also purchased higher quality brands and weaker types of alcoholic beverages. Before Prohibition, Americans spent roughly equal amounts on beer and spirits.(Thornton, The Economics of Prohibition, pp. 176–79). However, during Prohibition virtually all production, and therefore consumption, was of distilled spirits and fortified wines. Beer became relatively more expensive because of its bulk, and it might have disappeared altogether except for homemade beer and near beer, which could be converted into real beer.
https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/alcohol-prohibition-was-failure#notes
Alcohol isn’t an opiate.
Alcohol isn’t an opiate.
Right. But a black market is a black market.
No, that is false. There are many different black markets depending on the product that is being bought and sold. A black market in alcohol is very different from a black market in opioids or slaves or machine guns.
Therefore, your analogy between alcohol prohibition and opioid prohibition does not work: alcohol and opioids are very different kinds of products.
I mean, a person could call the last 50 years of failed drug policy evidence for this.
You'll note there aren't organizations rivaling the size and scope of US corporations trying to smuggle LSD into the US. ... I wonder why that is.
LSD is not addictive like opiates. That’s why that is.
Opiate addiction naturally leads to demands for ever more potent compounds, legal or not.
If prohibition is not the answer, what is a better plan? If you legalize (or at least decriminalize) the "hard" drugs today, who do you think will be producing them tomorrow? Answer - the same violent men who run the Mexican drug cartels and their suppliers in other countries like Communist China. Unless you're advocating for mass domestic production of meth, heroin, cocaine, etc by legitimate drug companies (Meth by Pfizer!) - which is never going to happen. Got it, the Drug War is a failure....what's next?
Violence is inherent in capitalism.
If you run out of a grocery store with a cart full of groceries, you'll either get away with it or you'll be met with violence distributed by security guards or local police.
If you try to go to a factory floor and say that your shotgun overrules the property deed, you'll be met with violence distributed by local police.
100 years ago, if you robbed the liquor dude, you'd be met with violence at the hands of gun-toting gangsters. If you did the same today, you'd be met with violence at the hands of local or state police.
The demarcation between legitimate and illegitimate enterprise is who is distributing the violence. The notion that "cartels" (they compete against each other, they're not cartels) are wholly different than any US corporation is a meaningless and intellectually dishonest distinction.
Correct answer: Legitimate pharmaceutical companies. Do gangsters still produce and sell alcohol?
The War on Drugs has turned the entire planet into a copy of prohibition era Chicago, but hey, it's sending the right message to the children.
"It's never worked before, but it damn well should have."
Common definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Just FYI, there was a tragic chapter in the Volstead Act era that too many people are not aware of. This was the epidemic of "jake paralysis" aka "jake leg" caused by drinking Jamaica Ginger Extract that was adulterated with triorthocresyl phosphate, found to be a potent neurotoxin which attacked motor neurons serving the upper and lower extremities. There were 30,000 to 50,000 victims, most of whom suffered permanent paralysis. Drinking "Ginger Jake" (70% to 80% ethanol) was fairly common in dry counties before Prohibition and even more common during Prohibition because it was legally, easily and inexpensively available in drug stores. There are some elderly southerners (I met one in 1973) who can remember seeing surviving victims doing the "jake dance", and it's one of a very few diseases about which numbers of songs were composed.
During Prohibition the production and consumption of homemade liquors adulterated with methanol increased substantially. Permanent blindness is only the most well-known adverse effect of methanol. It's always been, and continues to be sometimes, a problem associated with "bathtub gin" and "white lightning" (still the favorite kick among Okies From Muscogee as you'll recall).
The people who are insane are people who drink home distilled liquor and consume opiates.
Libertarianism isn’t about reducing harm to them. Libertarianism is about given those people the freedom to harm themselves and suffer the consequences, visibly and as a warning to others.
I don't think that's true. From what I've heard, heroin gives 'em a better high, whereas fentanyl puts 'em to sleep. Fentanyl's just cheaper and easier to manufacture and smuggle.
As addiction progresses, it changes from seeking a "better high" to simply avoiding pain. Fentanyl is very good at the latter.
If the users don't care which drug they use because the efect is the same - alleviating pain - then they'll take the cheapest on the market. And the producers will produce the most profitable for them, which means the lowest cost, easiest, and easiest to conceal and smuggle. Fentanyl is a Schedule II drug available legally by prescription, not originally developed for its ease to produce, conceal and smuggle. Fentanyl dominates the illegal market, because under prohibition, it's the easiest to get away, not get caught, and make the greatest profit. If heroin was legal, Fentanyl would not have quite so much advantage to produce.
If you legalize drugs, both fentanyl and heroin will be legal. You attribute fentanyl’s popularity primarily to the ease of concealment. I don’t think that’s true. Fentanyl is popular among drug addicts for the same reasons it is popular in medicine, and they have nothing to do with cost or concealment: fentanyl is powerful and fast acting.
Is it possible that legalizing both, some people who use fentanyl right now wouldn't? Sure. Likewise, it is possible that current heroin users would start fentanyl earlier. It's hair splitting and guesswork at that point. But we would have fentanyl and drug addicts would be using fentanyl even if we never had had a war on drugs.
Furthermore, arguments about which policy causes less harm simply don't matter from a libertarian point of view. From a libertarian point of view, people should be free to take drugs even if that leads to more drug addiction and drug deaths.
The problem I have with drugs is that they're not lethal enough. I really wish we'd invest the time and research into making recreational drugs as lethal as possible.
Like, if we could cultivate a strain of marijuana or cocaine or heroin that has a 50/50 chance of immediately killing you upon each intake (and, better yet, make it hyper-invasive so that it chokes out all other variants of the plants world-wide) - that'd be cool.
I mean, props to fentanyl for being a stone killer. If you're chasing a high, fentanyl is definitely the way to go. If you're a drug user, and you're not lacing everything you take with fentanyl - we're seriously missing out.
I mean you're. You're seriously missing out. It makes all your highs even better.
*whistles nonchalantly*
You will be overjoyed to hear that every drug and substance, even water, has an LD50.