The Chicago Boys' Deal With the Devil
The Chile Project surveys neoliberalism's most polarizing experiment.

The Chile Project: The Story of the Chicago Boys and the Downfall of Neoliberalism, by Sebastian Edwards, Princeton University Press, 376 pages, $32
In 1973, Sebastián Edwards was a supporter of Chile's socialist president, Salvador Allende. He was, he recalls, an assistant to the "director of costs and prices" at the Chilean Directorate of Industry and Commerce, where his unit "oversaw every controlled price in the country." After Augusto Pinochet deposed Allende in a coup that year, Edwards "opposed the dictatorship and fled the country in 1977 because of it."
So Edwards is no starry-eyed apologist for the Pinochet junta, and he readily acknowledges the regime's abysmal litany of murder and torture. He also notes that Chile's later democratic governments willingly embraced (and in some ways extended) much of the Pinochet era's economic policies, and he gives those reforms much of the credit for the dramatic post-1983 improvement in Chile's economic performance. But he believes the wholesale "neoliberal economic revolution" that the dictator imposed would "not have been possible under a democratic regime." And therein lies the unfortunately widespread appeal of imposed capitalism.
In the early 1980s, F.A. Hayek embraced what Reason's Jesse Walker has called the "mad dream of a libertarian dictatorship." Hayek wasn't alone: In 1981, when the Mont Pelerin Society met in Chile, Milton Friedman and James Buchanan publicly admonished many participants for—in Buchanan's words—their "naive belief that dictatorships are the only or the best way of establishing a free economy." In the early 1990s, would-be reformers of the Russian economy concluded, as the historian Tobias Rupprecht put it, that "authoritarian capitalism of the Chilean type" would be "the most reasonable and viable path for a post-Communist Russia."
Edwards' assessment is far more measured than that. With The Chile Project, he has written a marvelously wide-ranging and fair-minded account of the rise and fall of the Chilean neoliberal model. There are a few minor errors—for example, Hayek did not attend that late 1981 Mont Pelerin meeting—but this is easily the best book to date on the Chilean experiment.
The book begins with a detailed analysis of the events that unfolded after the U.S. State Department helped forge a link between the Pontifical Catholic University of Chile and the University of Chicago. Starting in the mid-1950s, Chilean students could undertake graduate studies at Chicago; upon returning home, they would "revolutionize the teaching of economics at Católica" and, ultimately, revolutionize Chilean economic policy. This section concludes with an assessment of Allende's early-1970s rule, which featured nationalizations, pervasive shortages, a burgeoning deficit, and an inflation rate that soared past 700 percent.
Edwards then turns to the Pinochet years, and to the role the university's "Chicago boys" played in the era's economic policies. He offers an illuminating and detailed account of the pre-coup origins of the infamous "Brick"—the Chicago boys' "blueprint for Chile's future"—and of the Chilean government's tendency to finance its fiscal deficits by basically printing more money, an inflation-fueling problem that took off under Allende and continued in the early years of the military junta. But Edwards does not give us much substantive detail about the tenor of Chilean economic policy until Milton Friedman and his colleague Arnold Harberger arrived in Santiago in March 1975.
When Friedman advocated a massive fiscal shock in Chile—an immediate "across-the-board reduction of every separate [budget] item by 25 per cent"—he said it would produce a significant but relatively short-lived increase in economic pain. Inflation promptly started to come down, but unemployment wasn't short-lived: The rate was 22 percent in 1976 and stayed at what Edwards calls "extremely high levels until the mid-1980s." Similarly, while shock therapy ensured that the fiscal deficit was all but eliminated by 1978, the average real wage was 23 per cent lower that year than in 1971.
The sequence of events that unfolded between the 1975 adoption of shock therapy and Chile's late-1980s transition to democracy included a series of trade reforms, culminating in a uniform 10 percent import tariff and the creation of an increasingly open economy. More ill-fated was the mid-1979 adoption of a fixed exchange rate between the Chilean peso and the U.S. dollar. This move came shortly before Federal Reserve Chair Paul Volcker imposed disinflation in the United States, which assured that the peso would become increasingly overvalued. That had very bad consequences for the Chilean economy, culminating in the April 1982 currency crisis and the abandonment of the previously "irrevocable" peso-dollar exchange rate.
Edwards provides equally fine accounts of the 1979 Chilean labor law, which rolled back the rights of unions; the 1981 social security reform, which replaced Chile's pay-as-you-go pension system with individual retirement accounts; the increasingly bitter conflict between the Harvard-educated José Piñera and the Chicago-educated Sergio de Castro over the tenor of economic policy; and the emerging influence of a new, more pragmatic generation of Chicago graduates in the wake of the 1982 currency debacle.
The final part of Edwards' narrative examines the fate of the Chilean neoliberal model after the 1988–89 transition to democracy. Changes in economic policy included the reduction of import tariffs to a uniform 6 percent, the privatization of water and sewage companies, the adoption of a freely floating exchange rate, the further liberalization of the regulations governing international capital movements, and a variety of social democratic changes to the pension system. Meanwhile, abortion was legalized under some circumstances, same-sex marriage was recognized, and divorce laws were liberalized. This section of the book contains much fascinating material, and Edwards' detailed discussion of the flaws in the Pinochet junta's much-vaunted pension reforms is particularly enlightening.
The economy generally fared well in this period, but the Achilles' heel of the Chilean model lay in the increasingly widespread perception that it was systematically rigged in favor of the self-anointed Chilean elite. Edwards offers a nuanced and insightful analysis of a sequence of corruption scandals that ultimately culminated in the 2019 protests, the 2021 election of Gabriel Boric to the presidency, the ill-fated (and ongoing) efforts to draft a new social democratic constitution, and what Edwards views as the inexorable demise of the neoliberal model.
Edwards' highly detailed account of Friedman's 1975 visit to Chile will intensify the debate over how much influence Friedman had on the Pinochet junta's adoption of shock therapy a month later. Although he called for shock therapy in his Chilean lectures, Friedman insisted in his 1998 memoir Two Lucky People that the Chicago boys "had already reached the conclusion that a shock therapy was required" and that he and Harberger were there to "check their conclusions," to provide "the stamp of approval," and to "sell it to the public and the military junta." Harberger, similarly, wrote that "my understanding is that our visit was not the precipitating factor in the [adoption of the] program."
Edwards argues that various Chicago boys (and, presumably, Friedman and Harberger themselves) have "systematically diminished Friedman's influence in the preparation and launching of the April 1975 shock treatment stabilization plan." Indeed, while earlier scholarly assessments of Friedman's involvement with Chile (including work by Edwards himself) have claimed the program was in the "design stage before Friedman arrived," Edwards now believes—"based on newspaper records and interviews with many of those involved in the decision-making process"—that the recovery plan was probably not "drafted or even outlined" at the time of Friedman's March meeting with Pinochet.
I would have liked far more detail about the primary sources that persuaded Edwards that "Friedman's visit marked a turning point in Chile's economic history: there is a before Friedman and an after Friedman." But his argument here lends more scholarly weight to New York Times columnist Anthony Lewis' highly controversial 1975 claim that Friedman was "the guiding light of the junta's policy."
Whatever the merits of Chilean economic policy from the mid-1970s through the early 1980s, it is notable that, of the renowned economists who heap dust-jacket praise on The Chile Project, only Deirdre McCloskey sees fit to mention that the Chicago boys (a number of whom learned their economics from McCloskey at the University of Chicago in the 1970s) made a "deal with an authoritarian devil." Unfortunately, far too many self-styled free market advocates would make a similar deal, arguing that Venezuela or Iraq or some other country would be lucky to have "a Pinochet figure who would impose capitalism." Sadly, the mad dream of a libertarian dictatorship has yet to lose its allure.
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"The Chili Project" discovered that chilling with chili and beans is affordable, pretty bad-ass, delicious, AND nutritious, and for THAT, this project is to be commended! And I am NOT projecting!
“The Chili Project” sound like some show on cable channel 347.
Do you think we can add some chili to my DNA and get me some siblings?
I'm making $90 an hour working from home. I never imagined that it was honest to goodness yet my closest companion is earning sixteen thousand US dollars a month by working on the connection, that was truly astounding for me, she prescribed for me to attempt it simply. Everybody must try this job now by just using this website... http://www.Payathome7.com
I don’t see why not! It’s worth a try!
Sure, but that will require a multi billion dollar grant for research.
And no liability for any unintended consequences.
There's a really weird zeitgeist in modern politics that when The Other Side is in power and everything sucks, anything which makes things better in any measurable way is a wholesale endorsement of The Other Side and all its awfulness. It's not acceptable to reduce the awfulness of The Other Side, they must be kept as awful as possible so that support for The Opposition never wanes.
It's incredibly cynical and I hate it.
Short summary: Smug, short-sighted, and self-righteous tribalism SUCKS!
Well OK, I see you're saying more than that. Let's make things WORSE under the rule of the bad tribe, so that the people will see their evil, and rebel! Me and mine? We'll make it WORSE, not better, then blame the in-power tribe! Maoism was very like that, especially early on, but a casual web search didn't yield any quick support for that. Maybe I'm just too lazy to search some more...
In the early 1980s, F.A. Hayek embraced what Reason's Jesse Walker has called the "mad dream of a libertarian dictatorship."
Peanuts (like Jesse, ML, and ITL) hate Hayek because he was critical of the tyranny of conservative ideology.
Hayek then asserts that conservatives, with the goal of hindering change, are more than welcome to use state powers to achieve such aims. Conservatives are hardly different from progressives in the sense that arbitrary power is acceptable as long as the power achieves the goals that conservatives desire. “Like the socialist,” he writes, “[the conservative] regards himself as entitled to force the value he holds on other people.” Due to this fact, conservatives lack principle, whereas liberalism is an ideology built on principles.
https://studentsforliberty.org/blog/why-hayek-wasnt-a-conservative/
(I'll just keep this page open in the future)
“Like the socialist,” he writes, “[the conservative] regards himself as entitled to force the value he holds on other people."
His description sounds just like you and your political prosecution and censorship mad party. I guess you and the Democrats are Hayek's "conservatives", and Jesse, ITL and myself are classical liberals.
Hayek was a liberal. The value system you wish to impose on others is antithetical to liberalism. You support Trump Big Government and an Aborto-Freak police state to impose your moral system onto others against our will.
We discussed your moral pathology last week. You rebel against liberty and have replaced individual freedom with a strict Calvinist type religious order because you need structure in life.
Yes he was a classical liberal in the actual sense of the word, as are Jesse, ITL and myself.
You know who is extremely illiberal, fascist and downright authoritarian in the actual sense of the words?
You, your god – the old Nazi party member Soros, and the Democrats.
"strict Calvinist type religious order"
You don't actually know what Calvinism is, do you? You've just heard that it's "strict" not understanding that strictness in this case doesn't refer to morality.
You're so fucking dumb. Your boss at the fifty-cent factory needs to recruit someone smarter.
Also not killing babies is the opposite of authoritarian, you abortofreak, but censorship, political arrests and gaslighting is.
Soros, one of the most accomplished capitalists in history, whose organization literally stands for free speech and who fights to legalize drugs and the movement of people - is FAR MORE libertarian/liberal than you and your Trump Fascists will ever be.
You're seriously deranged.
Soros is a corporatist, not a capitalist. He made his money through government collusion, protection and exploitation. Like when he broke the Bank of England for example.
It's time to stop lying.
Odd how you nutcases hate central banks so then Soros shorts their overblown currency you demonize him - most likely because he is Jewish.
Anyway he was an incredibly successful capitalist even without currency trading.
Ooo, the Anti-semite card. That didn't take long.
That’s all he has.
"most likely because he is Jewish."
When other teens his age were joining the resistance, Soros joined the Nazi Party and looted his Jewish neighbors homes. He started his fortune with what he stole from the Jews.
Nazi thieves like Soros don't get to pull the anti-Semitism card.
Soros uses his past as a shield to hide his sword of leftist extremism.
A leftist who used to be a Nazi?
All the paid shills say that can’t be possible.
Soros joining the Nazi Party? You're a fucking liar - and as he was not a Nazi, I guess you are indeed an anti-Semite like JesseAZ.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-false-george-soros-claims/fact-checkfalseclaims-about-george-soros-idUSKBN23P2XJ
https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-george-soros-help-nazis-confiscate-jewish-property-1801194
What have you got?
An actual interview he gave that he later tried to scrub from the internet? See shrike. Your worship of soroa always exposes you.
He has also been funding censorship. Truly a classical liberal.
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/free-speech/catherine-salgado/2023/02/10/surprise-surprise-soros-tied-disinfo-group
Funds DAs instead of legislatures to avoid the legislative process by having DAs implement his goals.
https://nypost.com/2021/12/16/how-george-soros-funded-progressive-das-behind-us-crime-surge/
The soros Nazi information comes from 3 sources.
These and similar claims rely mainly on three sources: a 60 Minutes interview with Soros, the autobiography of Soros’s father, and an assortment of Soros’s personal statements on his boyhood in Nazi-occupied Hungary.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/weekly-standard/fact-check-george-soros-the-thieving-nazi-sympathizer
And soros has done his best to hide the information.
Oh! And the largest funder of the left that has been stated multiple times shrike.
Not to mention his contributions to WEF that are trying to limit travel, food, and influence corporations and global governments.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/authors/georgesoros
Truly a classical liberal lol.
No surprise SRG supports soros.
Sorry, you anti-Semitic lying POS. MoLa's unsupported claim was that Soros joined the Nazi party.
And from your own Washington Examiner link:
Claims that Soros was a Nazi sympathizer or that he helped “round up Jewish people” and stole “their wealth” are quite inaccurate. Perhaps for Barr, it was just the Zolpidem talking.
And you had the chutzpah to whinge about others not reading their own links. You missed that WE was just reporting what Barr and Trump II said, and were not themselves claiming it.
And citing Newsbusters? You're always whingeing about people citing left-wing sources:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/newsbusters/
"Sorry, you anti-Semitic lying POS. MoLa’s unsupported claim was that Soros joined the Nazi party."
Soros himself is the one who said he joined the Hitler Youth which was the youth wing of the Nazi party, you disingenuous piece of shit.
As for the other lies you've linked to claiming that it was someone else, here's Soros trying to excuse it in a 1998 interview with Steve Kroft on 60 minutes:
Kroft: “My understanding is that you went . . . went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.”
Soros: “Yes, that’s right. Yes.”
Kroft: “I mean, that’s — that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?”
Soros: “Not, not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don’t . . . you don’t see the connection. But it was — it created no — no problem at all.”
Kroft: “No feeling of guilt?”
Soros: “No.”
Kroft: “For example, that, ‘I’m Jewish, and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be these, I should be there.’ None of that?”
Soros: “Well, of course . . . I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn’t be there, because that was — well, actually, in a funny way, it’s just like in the markets — that if I weren’t there — of course, I wasn’t doing it, but somebody else would — would — would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the — whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the — I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.”
But Soros' father, Tivadar, wrote in his 1965 autobiography "Masquerade", that his son’s role was active:
"The following week the kind-hearted Baufluss, in an effort to cheer the unhappy lad up, took him off with him to the provinces. At the time he was working in Transdanubia, west of Budapest, on the model estate of a Jewish aristocrat, Baron Moric Kornfeld. There they were wined and dined by what was left of the staff. George also met several other ministry officials, who immediately took a liking to the young man, the alleged godson of Mr Baufluss. He even helped with the inventory. Surrounded by good company, he quickly regained his spirits. On Saturday he returned to Budapest."
All of this comes directly from Soros himself and his father.
Social unrest groups like Media Matters pay fifty-centers like you take to the Internet in an attempt to fraudulently “debunk the claims” and “correct the smears” about rumors of the Nazi past of your patron. It's creepy and repugnant.
Pulling the antisemitism card for someone like Soros is antisemitic in and of itself.
And now shrike retreats to calling anyone anti soros an anti semite while he defends the person who admitting to selling out other jews. Lol. Yet another tell.
Shrike. How many links do you want to the groups he funds? Are you truly this much of a shit weasel liar you deny who he funds? Lol.
Where does Soros say he joined the Hitler Youth? Lying again...
You can't help it, evidently.
Obviously you and the other libertaryans think that any billionaire who donates to non-right-wing causes is vile, and if they're Jewish, even worse. When Soros contributes money to PACs that try to get local DAs elected, that's terrible. When a right-wing group does the same, that's democracy in action. So you're hypocrites as well.
Soros, actually set up pro-democracy groups in ex-Soviet states to help prevent them reverting to communism or going to the other extreme. Of course that meant that when right-wing authoritarian leaders took power, Soros became their enemy - note what happened wrt Orban. (IIRC some of you fake "classical liberals" like Orban - "oh, he's misrepresented by MSM, he loves children and dogs, he hates gays, Jews, foreigners, free press, so we classical liberals just lurv him".)
Did Soros not have a laminated nazi party card?
Forgot to mention something else from that CBS’ 60 Minutes interview, Soros comes from a strange anti-Semitic Jewish family.
Soros said; “My mother was quite anti-Semitic, and ashamed of being Jewish, Given the culture in which one lived, being Jewish was a clear-cut stigma, disadvantage, a handicap-and, therefore, there was always the desire to transcend it, to escape it…
And in The New Yorker, Soros stated: “I don’t deny Jews the right to a national existence – but I don’t want to be a part of it”.
And yet the Shrikes are calling the man who lived out the war in ease and comfort a “holocaust survivor”, and dubbing legitimate criticism of him “antisemitic”. It’s absolutely disgusting.
Man this just gets worse and worse for diet shrike.
Omegalul, trust funds are antithesis of capitalists. They take zero risks whatsoever.
Only high-risk investment is capitalistic? Since when.
Trust funds? Do you mean hedge funds? And fwiw both take risks, so regardless, you're utterly wrong.
The precise purpose of a "hedge" is to offload risk, shreek. Jesus fucking Christ you're retarded.
He is the biggest contributor to the most authoritarian party today. A party that threatens economy over vaccines, pushes censors, funnels money to themselves through global politics, seeks to restrict freedom of movement, endorses government influenced economies through ESG, wants to determine what truth is. Soros is THE biggest contributor. Soros seeks to influence politics by paying and buying low level DAs and prosecutors. He pushes policies to help his own wealth generation by pushing Biden to limit energy production federally while buying up energy on private lands, utilization of government to make a profit.
Hayek would think Soros is a villain. So would Rand. If you had ever actually read either you would know this.
Idiot.
Soros didn't engage in party politics until the Bushpigs invaded the Middle East and set up an illegal surveillance state. Then there was their open theocracy.
He escaped fascism once. He didn't want GOP fascism to infect America.
They are the biggest donors of the left and the son said he was going to double their expenditures.
How fucking in denial are you?
So now you're a Bush/Cheney PNAC NatCon Patriot Act fan?
Soros fought that. I agree with Soros. You Bush/Cheney NatCons were run out of power.
The only people here who push neocon narratives are you and sarc lol.
What does Bush have to do with Soros being the largest funder of the left shit weasel? What does it have to do with him funding the current war party for Ukraine?
So you agree with Soros version 2004.
Just wanted to get that on the record. Someday you will see that Soros is the world's #1 proponent of classical liberalism and democracy.
Censorship, electronic surveillance, internal spying, monopolies, cartels, conspiracy theories, weaponization of the intelligence agencies, pouring billions of dollars into campaigns, changing voting laws by fiat, a woke revolutionary military, book banning, bleeding the First Amendment, canceling careers, blacklisting, separate-but-equal racial segregation and separatism is an odd way of advancing classical liberalism and democracy, Shrike.
No shit weasel. What soros does and what he says are often diametrically opposed. Just because a dictator states they want to help the people doesn’t stop them from being a dictator.
Wherever Soros is involved he increases discontent, societal issues all to make a buck. He is one of the biggest pieces of shit in history. He believes a profit is to be made by fomenting strife. He has done that throughout the world.
Imagine sucking neocon dick for the last five years and then having the balls to call anyone else a Bushpig.
He's copypasting everything but not actually reading what Students For Liberty actually wrote.
He'd positively hate most of their other articles like The Gadsden flag: a historic symbol rooted in classical liberalism; or Mises on immigration: setting the record straight
He is just ignorant. All his talking points come from Salon and other leftist sights. Their act is taking one or two lines out of context and without inspection and then seeing how they can use them to prop up the left. All of the Rand and Hayek citations I see from shrike or jeff are the same justification claims you see on very left leaning sites. They think they can trick people but the problem is they are very uneducated and don't realize other people have actually read the entirety of the works they try to cite.
You forgot the part about Soros funding pro-crime District Attorneys around the country to destroy cities.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Nothing more libertarian than robbing Jews, eh pluggo?
Soros is just a misunderstood capitalist who just wants what's good for the world. Like Richmond Valentine.
Hayek was great. He also pointed out that the social welfare net was the death knell of limited government, and recommended ending Social Security and Medicare, because they put the great mass of voters in the handout line. Hayek advocated for libertarians to try to appeal to liberals, because liberals are by nature open minded and open to change (at least, pre-Progressive liberals, who are reactionary totalitarians), while conservatives are by nature opposed to change and natural authoritarians. But in America, because of its unique history, conservatives tend to be libertarian, because many of the Founders were, and the Constitution established a (mostly) limited government, until the Democrat-appointed Supreme Court made up whole new living doctrines to permit socialism.
It would definitely be far morally superior to allow Iraq and Venezuela to suffer indefinitely, than to have the horror of having capitalism imposed on them so they could actually recover and grow.
There is, of course, no equivalent moral horror in having them subjected to a communist or socialist or even just feudalist dictatorship, in the eyes of Reason.
If the Left is doing it, the (hoped for) ends justifies the means.
If the Right is doing it, not only the motives but the methods as well as the results must be pure, according to Reason.
Hey, I hear that Joe and Jill are finally going to acknowledge their seventh grandchild.
I guess they needed to open another set of bank accounts for Chinese consulting gigs, now that the others have been found.
How long before Navy Joan Totally Not a Biden/Oops, OK, I Guess She is a Biden Roberts gets a position on a Ukrainian or Chinese corporate board?
Another week, tops.
Got to spread out those SARs over as many accounts as possible.
Biden heard we needed the Navy to defend Taiwan from China, and then he saw the birthday card Navy sent him when he turned 80.
What Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin and Viktor Orbán Understand About Your Brain
Why do some people who support Trump also wind up believing conspiracy theories? There’s a scientific explanation for that.
.
My research analyzes real speeches made by politicians past and present, including those of Trump, Orbán and Putin, using cognitive linguistics — a branch of linguistics that examines the relationship between language and the mind. What I have found is that throughout history, speeches by dictators and autocrats have one thing in common: they use dehumanizing metaphors to instill and propagate hatred of others.
.
It is well-documented that for example words like “reptiles” and “parasites” were used by the Nazi regime to compare outsiders and minorities to animals. Strongmen throughout history have referred to targeted social groups as “rats” or “pests” or “a plague.” And it’s effective regardless of whether the people who hear this language are predisposed to jump to extreme conclusions. Once someone is tuned into these metaphors, their brain actually changes in ways that make them more likely to believe bigger lies, even conspiracy theories.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/07/30/the-connection-between-political-lies-and-conspiracy-theories-00108378
Significantly, Trump also supported his Big Lie with the same pattern of conspiracy theories and fake news reported in far-right social media, such as QAnon, that spurred Trump supporters to attack the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. This sustained use of the central metaphor of a cabal of satanic, cannibalistic abusers of children conspiring against Trump will easily fit into the entrenched neural pathways of someone who is already willing to believe.
This is why Donnie says he likes the uneducated people. They're easy to brainwash.
“Trump also supported his Big Lie with the same pattern of conspiracy theories and fake news reported in far-right social media, such as QAnon, that spurred Trump supporters to attack the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.”
Speaking of the Big Lie… Now that it’s looking like your Reichstag Fire was actually a prearranged FBI/Speakers Office op, it’s funny you should mention it.
What’s spookier too, is that the concept of “The Big Lie” was a concept coined by the Nazi’s and thrown against Jews in the same way that the Democrats are now using it against MAGA.
Hitler called these gross mistruths “big lies” in Mein Kampf
Now I’m not saying MAGA is comparable to German Jews, rather the Nazis were actually the ones who coined the term and initially accused others of The Big Lie. Not the other way around.
No surprises your narrative emulates the Nazis, Pluggo.
Sad but true!
The over-arching rubric includes “my tribe good, your tribe bad”, or, in more detail, “my tribe’s violence good, your tribe’s violence bad”, and it is, sad to say, apparently programmed into our brains, by evolution. “My tribe bad, your tribe good” got you kicked out of your tribe VERY quickly, so those genes often got eliminated! (Sloppy way of saying it, I know, but there it is).
What else fits in here is summarized in the following links: https://www.salon.com/2021/08/08/a-terrifying-new-theory-fake-news-and-conspiracy-theories-as-an-evolutionary-strategy/
A terrifying new theory: Fake news and conspiracy theories as an evolutionary strategy.
Social scientist Michael Bang Petersen on why people believe outrageous lies — as a tool in violent group conflict.
And another take on the same thing…
https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/equality/566982-terrifying-new-study-says-our-conspiracy-theory-epidemic
Fake news and conspiracy theories like COVID came from a wetmarket, conservatives are all terrorists, Ivermectin doesn't work, HCQ doesn't work, Biden doesn't have dementia, Masks work, COVID passports, Cuomo didn't kill old people, Hunter Biden is an artist, Trump colluded with Russia, Jan 06 was an insurrection, Transwoman are real women, BLM is mostly peaceful, Trump had a pee pee tape, Antifa is an idea, George Floyd didn't overdose, Advanced coursework is racist, 1619 is real history, Hunter Laptop wasn't real, Trump caused asian hate, White rage is the problem, CRT isn't poisonous, All white people are racist, A pipe in ATL stopped the count, Jussie Smollet was attacked, China travel ban was racist, Words are violence, The military isn't woke, The FBI is apolitical, Shokin was fired for corruption, Obama didn't build cages, Iran never got cash pallets, The border is under control, Voter ID is racist?
My tribe’s lies leading to violence are GOOD! YOUR tribe’s lies leading to violence are BAD! That describes YOU, MarxistMammaryBahnFuhrer the Jesus-Killer! That is why you and some of your fellow troglodytes hate me and what I write! All the Demon-Craps have stolen the election(s), so they are all VERY evil, so it is OK to kill them and steal their shit, right?
So MarxistMammaryBahnFuhrer the tribalist witch-burner…
So how long till you feel that you’ve built up your tribalistic lies enough, sufficient for you to be justified when you come over here and kill me, and steal my property? Why do you want to steal my property? I DO own MANY books, but they are CLEARLY too long and complex for you to read and comprehend!
The funny thing about that, sarcasmic, is that Mother's Lament has never advocated killing or harming anyone, while you spent 3 years psychotically threatening violence, genocide and concentration camps against anyone who refused to participate in your religious rituals like wearing paper masks and taking an experimental medical treatment that turned out to have absolutely no efficacy in preventing the transmission of disease. It's almost like you're actually a psychopathic genocidal Nazi and just project your bullshit onto everyone else in between spastic bouts of posting 4 year old links to your own posts interspersed with copypasta you've been saving since the Bush administration.
Hi Tulpa!
“Dear Abby” is a personal friend of mine. She gets some VERY strange letters! For my amusement, she forwards some of them to me from time to time. Here is a relevant one:
Dear Abby, Dear Abby,
My life is a mess,
Even Bill Clinton won’t stain my dress,
I whinny seductively for the horses,
They tell me my picnic is short a few courses,
My real name is Mary Stack,
NO ONE wants my hairy crack!
On disability, I live all alone,
Spend desperate nights by the phone,
I found a man named Richard (Dick) Decker,
But he won’t give me his hairy pecker!
Dick Decker’s pecker is reserved for farm beasts,
I am beastly, yes! But my crack’s full of yeasts!
So Dear Abby, that’s just a poetic summary… You can read about the Love of my Life, Richard Decker, here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/11/farmers-kept-refusing-let-him-have-sex-with-their-animals-so-he-sought-revenge-authorities-say/ and https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/sex-animals-bestiality-farm-cows-horses-richard-decker-new-jersey-a9152136.html
Farmers kept refusing to let him have sex with their animals. So he sought revenge, authorities say.
Decker the hairy pecker told me a summary of his story as below:
Decker: “Can I have sex with your horse?”
Farmer: “Lemme go ask the horse.”
Pause…
Farmer: “My horse says ‘neigh’!”
And THAT was straight from the horse’s mouth! I’m not horsin’ around, here, no mare!
So Richard Decker the hairy pecker told me that, apparently never even realizing just HOW DEEPLY it hurt me, that he was all interested in farm beasts, while totally ignoring MEEE!!
So I thought maybe I could at least liven up my lonely-heart social life, by refining my common interests that I share with Richard Decker… I, too, like to have sex with horses!
But Dear Abby, the horses ALL keep on saying “neigh” to my whinnying sexual advances!
Some tell me that my whinnying is too whiny… Abby, I don’t know how to fix it!
Dear Abby, please don’t tell me “get therapy”… I can’t afford it on my disability check!
Now, along with my crack full of yeasts… I am developing anorexia! Some are calling me a “quarter pounder with cheese”, but they are NOT interested at ALL, in eating me!!! They will NOT snack on my crack!
What will I DO, Dear Abby?!?!?
-Desperately Seeking Horses, Men, or ANYTHING, in Fort Worth,
Yours Truly,
R Mac / Mary Stack / Tulpa / Mary’s Period / “.” / Satan
urd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides
And yet it's the Democrats who hope for (and actively change the rules to ensure) voter turnout to be as high as possible, because their only chance of winning is if more low-information voters turn out.
Funny how you seem to think that only the right employs authoritarian/totalitarian Machiavellian strategies and techniques. And equally funny is your ability to ignore that in the US over at least the past decade the left has been much more ambitious in trying to engineer a new social and political order that defies liberty, and still poses a greater threat.
The left has been too amorphous and diverse in its strategies while the right has been more focused - necessarily, as GOP policy in the last 10 years has been not to expand its appeal but to stir up residual support so that their turnout is higher.
So you have a point that much of the left is engaged in similar activities, but inevitably you vastly overstate the threat to liberty on the left while being blithely indifferent to it from the right.
Diet-shrike: less filling, just as dumb,
The Far Left only opposes the First Amendment, the Second Amendment, the Ninth Amendment, the Tenth Amendment, the Fourteenth Amendment, the Electoral College and the Senate. But other than that they are the party that defends liberty and the Constitution, yes sir. Not those dangerous, numerous and powerful Right Wing Christian Nationalists running the GOP.
All we need to know about you is that you posted dark web links to underage porn!
https://www.yahoo.com/news/japanese-man-spent-16k-become-211110478.html
“A Japanese man who shelled out thousands of dollars on a realistic rough collie costume to fulfill his childhood dream of becoming a dog has shared a video of his first public walk.”
Should medical insurance be required to cover "species change operations" for those for whom such operations are "medically necessary"? I, for one, am really-actually a human (don't tell anyone!), but have "species dysphoria", and wish to TRULY TRANSFORM and become a squirrel!
"Denis Avner" is another case in point... https://www.pinterest.com/pin/560064903630508120/
I am not clicking on your link!
Maybe buttplugs links would be more to your liking.
You're a subhuman sack of shit welfare-sponging lowlife criminal who lost custody of his children because of sexual abuse, sarcasmic. Since you're already on Medicaid, whatever you need to do to help you along to the 41% solution I'm more than happy to do my part to pay for.
What wit! Did your Mommy help you write that?
That is pitiful.
You mean speciest!
One thing the story doesn’t explain is why this Japanese guy has a blonde Western woman walking him. Is that part of his fantasy of being a pet, too?
Yes, the whole trans movement is based on sexual peccadillos.
No, no, no, no. And every sexual deviant has a right to your kids.
And they have a right to force you to accept their deviance in front of your own kids.
I don’t have a problem with this being some guy’s fetish. Go nuts. Just so long as you don’t force other people to validate and celebrate your fetish.
Lol. Mike walked right into that one.
One thing the story doesn’t explain is why this Japanese guy has a blonde Western woman walking him
Everyone needs to stick with their own kind.
/mike the racist fuckstick.
Sexist too as he has an Asian wife. Apparently only white men can hang with Asians.
Maybe he’s “dog-pilled.”
I’m pretty sure our family dog, who is a biological dog, identifies as a human who gets to sit at the table with the humans and eat cheeseburgers, or even turducken if that’s what’s for dinner.
It’s because you are stupid.
Have you tried sticking something up its ass, say your finger, so he can be a dog human lab grown GMO species called a Dogan?
So you’re bad at raising dogs.
His dog runs his household.
Ours liked macaroni and beer.
Good taste.
His preferred pronouns are "good boy!" and "here boy!" and "down boy!"
Parody is obsolete, Exhibit #308
If Biden did what Mitch did today the media would be covering non stop for the next two weeks. But because it’s a Republican it’s like nothing ever happened. The right wing bias of corporate media is nuts.
That's everyone's favorite posterchild for affirmative action for mediocre white dudes with the correct political views, trying to convince us "corporate media" hates Wall-Street-friendly, neocon-approved Democrats like Joe Biden.
#HarvardNotSendingTheirBest
"If Biden did what Mitch did today the media would be covering non stop for the next two weeks."
Biden does what Cocaine Mitch did every day of the week. It's a credit to media special treatment that the little moron doesn't realize that.
Yes, Biden has visibly declined since elected and is too infirm to be president.
But he is still more fit than the criminal Trump who openly attacked our democracy and the US Constitution.
And how did he do that, you poorly-trolling shill?
Fatass Donnie schemed to replace legitimate electors with fake electors, he coerced the VP into an illegal plan to read him into the Congressional record as president, he told states to rig the vote count - and more
That's definitely your narrative, but you'll have to include Pelosi and the FBI in your conspiracy theory, because their undercover agents are the only ones recorded inciting the crowd to enter the Capitol.
That’s definitely your narrative, but you’ll have to include Pelosi and the FBI in your conspiracy theory, because their undercover agents are the only ones recorded inciting the crowd to enter the Capitol.
I didn't mention the Jan 6 MAGA attack on the Capitol.
Your canned replies are as transparent as Sevo's. At least Sevo has an excuse with his night job mopping splooge up in the Tenderloin.
It's all part of the same insurrection narrative, but I'll pick it all apart individuals with you if you want.
Let's start with your last lie first, "he told states to rig the vote count". What did Trump say to tell states to rig the vote count?
Tell us the full quote, not a few cherrypicked words.
Rig count is up, with the biggest vote fraud team ever assembled?
I have posted the Ga transcript here a dozen times at this point but lying leftists will continue to lie about clear and concise words and their intention. Just like with the fine good people smear.
turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides
Now do 2016 (and 2017, and 2018, and...).
So he challenged the elections like Gore, Kerry, and Hillary? The latter with a nationwide campaign to have electors ignore their state selections?
In the past, Democrats have objected to Electoral College results on the flimsiest possible grounds. In 2001, 2005 and 2017, Democratic Representatives and, in 2005, Senators voted against accepting the Electoral College tally.
Thus, every Republican president since George H. W. Bush has seen Democrats vote against accepting the legitimacy of his election.
But somehow it's treason for Pluggo when others do it.
"Republicans bad, Democrats good." -- Buttmunch
Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts.
Nancy Pelosi
Trump "knows he’s an illegitimate president," Clinton said. "I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories — he knows that — there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did … I know he knows this wasn’t on the level."
In an October 2020 interview with The Atlantic, Clinton said, "There was a widespread understanding that [the 2016] election was not on the level. We still don’t know what happened … but you don’t win by 3 million votes and have all this other shenanigans and stuff going on and not come away with an idea like, ‘Whoa, something’s not right here.’"
Democrats 2016 insurrection was just smaller "The states were counted, but three protestors started yelling from the visitors’ gallery of the chamber. "
1:09 P.M. ET: Rep. Jim McGovern of Massachusetts rose to object to the certificate from Alabama.
“The electors were not lawfully certified, especially given the confirmed and illegal activities engaged by the government of Russia,” McGovern said.
Biden denied McGovern on the grounds that he didn’t have a senator’s signature on his written objection.
1:14 P.M.: Rep. Jamie Raskin of Maryland rose to object to 10 of Florida’s 29 electoral votes.
“They violated Florida’s prohibition against dual office holders,” Raskin said.
Again, despite the fact that Raskin pointed out that he had his objection in writing, he failed to get a senator’s signature.
1:15 P.M.: No sooner had the Florida question been settled than its neighbor to the north was the subject of another objection, when Washington’s Rep. Pramila Jayapal objected to Georgia’s vote certificate.
“It is over,” Biden told the congresswoman.
1:21 P.M.: Rep. Barbara Lee of California brought up voting machines and Russian hacking when she objected following the counting of Michigan’s votes.
“People are horrified by the overwhelming evidence of Russian interference in our election,” Lee said.
Once again, her objection was denied for the lack of a senator’s signature. They also turned off her microphone.
1:23 P.M.: After New York’s tally was read, Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas stood up to object.
“I object on the massive voter suppression that included –” Jackson Lee began.
“The debate is not in order,” Biden interrupted. Again, the congresswoman lacked a senator’s signature.
1:28 P.M.: Arizona’s Rep. Raul Grijalva rose to object after North Carolina’s tally. He tried to object on violations of the Voting Rights Act, but Biden shut him down.
As you may have guessed, he didn’t have the signature of a senator.
Once he gave up, Jackson Lee tagged him out and tried to object to the votes herself. They cut off her microphone, too.
“There is no debate. There is no debate. There is no debate,” a visibly agitated Biden said as he gaveled.
1:31 PM: Jackson Lee made another appearance minutes later after South Carolina’s certification.
“There is no debate in the joint session,” Biden said, shutting her down once more.
1:36 PM: Biden must have thought, after five minutes of peace and getting through the state of West Virginia, that the House members might observe the rules. Lee wasn’t even able to make it through her objection before Biden said, “There is no debate.”
They cut off her microphone again.
1:37 PM: Wisconsin’s votes had been read. With just Wyoming to go, the finish line was in reach.
Jackson Lee once again tried to make an objection on the grounds of Russian interference in the election.
“The objection cannot be received,” Biden said.
1:38 PM: The final state’s votes had been read. Then entered California Rep. Maxine Waters.
Taking a play from her own book – she objected to the certification of George W. Bush’s 2000 election – Waters admitted that she didn’t have a senator’s signature on her objection.
“I wish to ask: Is there one United States senator who will join me in this letter of objection?” Waters asked. Through House Speaker Paul Ryan’s chuckle and boos from the rest of the chamber, it was clear that there was not.
1:40 PM: The states were counted, but three protestors started yelling from the visitors’ gallery of the chamber. At least one of them was reciting the Constitution as he was taken away by security.
Biden did not look thrilled.
But at the end of the day, despite the objections, Trump’s election was certified by Congress.
Are you going to make a citizen’s arrest of Clinton's camp, Gomer?
Rogue electors brief Clinton camp on anti-Trump plan
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/electoral-college-rogues-trump-clinton-232195
Lol. Is this more of your “progressives look to the future” bullshit?
Cuz I’d be more worried about next year than J6 if I were you.
It was payback for the whole Russian collusion®™ Big Lie®™.
Surely you have heard of the concept of payback.
Level 3 gas-lighting, otherwise known as bald-faced lying.
If we shoot looters who are violating the law, why don't we shoot those who are trying to establish looting as the law?
Basically the lesson here is, when the numbers are against you, surrender. The looters will win in the long run, and your only hope is in an even longer run. Of course in a long enough run, every side is a winner and a loser.
Did you miss the class on political patronage?
The looters do not outnumber us. Also it doesn't take a majority to form a successful armed resistance movement. Surrendering is not an option for a free people, but sometimes holding your fire until you see the whites of their eyes is a reasonable tactical approach. So far the actual looters remain inside their own looter cities, while the free people are concentrated outside the cities, watching and awaiting developments from the barricades. The "looters" nominally in charge of state and federal governments are like ticks indirectly feeding off the free people outside of the cities (mostly) so avoiding an escalation of the conflict seems to make sense to most of us for now.
I know my coffee is just kicking in, but why would anyone with half a brain use the words libertarian dictatorship?
I've used it but in discussion of idealism leading to authoritarian results. Idealism requires everyone to agree with the proposed vision even when they don't. As an example in a purely free idealist libertarian state bordering on anarchy they would force people who choose to live in a socialist community to disallow rules that limit freedom and liberty even though they do so by choice. The avenues to do this would be to disallow parents to indoctrinate their kids for the communes rules. Idealism always leads to authoritarianism as no conflict or argument against the ideal can butress the ideal.
Now libertarianism in a non ideal state is fine and dandy. But even in the discussion of libertarianism there is no agreed to ideal state, so anyone arguing for the one true libertarianism will often put limits on others.
Thats why I lean more to a federalist system that places power towards the people as long as the right to travel and choose what society you want to belong to is not infringed. Some may choose socialist cities, others will choose more anarchist. Let the best society win, best ideas to raise up.
That's what socialists from Massachusetts are worried the Free State Project was trying to pull in New Hampshire. As if bringing in immigrants to outvote someone isn't a long-standing Democrat policy, rather than a threat to democracy.
Jumbo shrimp. The best and the brightest. Military justice.
Not to mention the famous Groucho Marxist quote:
"'Military intelligence' is a contradiction in terms."
🙂
https://twitter.com/Babygravy9/status/1685650249207906307?t=ywB2LFDeTKtpECm16PlKpA&s=19
This is precisely what you'd do if you saw the people you govern as a subject population to be pacified and held in check, not fellow countrymen with whom you share a fundamental allegiance. It's why the Romans posted North African legions in Britain.
"BREAKING: Illinois governor, Pritzker just signed a bill allowing illegal immigrants to become police officers. This is not a joke.."
Also why the CCP likes to bring troops from the countryside to pound on uppity urban protestors.
And why the Biden Armed Forces are recruiting the woke. Because most enlistees hail from conservative military families in the South.
Colonialism II, melanin boogaloo.
Wrong place
I suppose that's one way to turn the tide on people generally being outraged when cops get shot...
Every article I could find says they must be legal immigrants.
https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/migrants-law-enforcement-pritzkers/
New bill would allow migrants to serve as law enforcement pending Pritzker’s approval
CHICAGO (CBS) — Non-U.S. citizens may soon be able to become police officers pending Governor Pritzker’s approval.
Federal law only allows U.S. citizens to serve as officers and deputies. But, since this bill passed the Illinois House and Senate, we could soon see work-eligible immigrants become a part of law enforcement in the state of Illinois.
The tweet was “Pritzker just signed a bill allowing illegal immigrants to become police officers.”
Are you saying that a work eligible immigrant becomes an “illegal immigrant” by breaking a federal law? I think the term is universally used to refer to someone in the country illegally.
I'm not saying anything, I posted a link to CBS news.
"Federal law only allows U.S. citizens to serve as officers and deputies" is in their article.
Facts
Federal law only allows U.S. citizens to serve as officers and deputies.
Can anyone find a source for this claim? It seems to be incorrect according to every source I can find except this article and verbatim copies of this article.
https://twitter.com/ChuckCallesto/status/1685670381519015936?t=sBY58TN4uwD3GOzelshkAQ&s=19
JUST IN: Department of Justice issues letter on Saturday morning to arrest BIDEN CORRUPTION INVESTIGATION witness Devin Archer, just prior to his Monday testimony..
PAYING ATTENTION NOW..
[Link]
I remember when this was called witness tampering.
The other thing that came out last week was an index of the contracts Hunter had woth foreign entities listed in emails, but not available from the laptop. Archer was on those emails and likely has all of the documents.
Reason will ignore this, but I'm actually intrigued to see how Jeff, Mike, SRG and Buttplug will try to defend this here.
With lies and hypocrisy?
didn't they just do this to gal luft
2x in the last month
Yeah somebody at DOJ getting paid OT for sending this on a Saturday. To a court that's closed. Obviously witness intimidation.
Impeachment is off the table.
I just spotted a Rivian in the wild.
That's a first
I like the looks of those.
Up here electric vehicles barely work six months of the year, so I don't even get to see Teslas.
Norway is loaded with teslas. They work just fine.
Norway isn't -20 to -40 Celsius from November to April like Northwestern Canada.
The coastal climate of Norway is exceptionally mild compared with areas on similar latitudes elsewhere in the world, with the Gulf Stream passing directly offshore the northern areas of the Atlantic coast, continuously warming the region in the winter. Most of Norway has monthly means above freezing in spite of being north of the Arctic Circle, which means it lacks a meteorological winter.
The climates are incomparable.
There's one that live a few blocks away from me, but it's the only one I've ever seen.
I've seen one. They're hideous, like a bread box with headlights.
Rescues country from Marxism, becomes the only dictator to ever voluntarily give up power (exceeding only George Washington, who declined the dictator mantle) = “The Devil”
becomes the only dictator to ever voluntarily give up power
He didn't and he wasn't. Flight Lt Jerry Rawlings is an example of someone who voluntarily stepped down and I'm sure there are others, and he stepped down out of necessity after a failed auto-coup.
Capitalism brings economic freedom. But political/social freedom matter as well, and there wasn't too much of that under Pinochet.
The Chileans elected a Millennial socialist as president because their bus fares went up. His resume includes studying law but never practicing, student (community) leader and two time member of the Chamber of Deputies. I would tsk tsk the Latinics for always following the same voting patterns but the USA did the same thing by voting in Obama.
Voting socialist leads to “bad luck”.
That's because of all the austerity. Must increase funding.
WTF?
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ive-never-seen-anything-mysterious-chinese-bio-lab-discovered-remote-california-city
Public Health staff also observed blood, tissue and other bodily fluid samples and serums; and THOUSANDS of vials of unlabeled fluids and suspected biological material.
Additionally they found 900 genetically engineered mice, engineered to catch and carry COVID-19, living in “inhumane” conditions.
773 of the mice had to be euthanized, and officials found another 178 mice already dead.
“This is an unusual situation. I’ve been in government for 25 years. I’ve never seen anything like this,” said Reedley City Manager Nicole Zieba.
Even county health officials were left in shock.
“I’ve never seen this in my 26-year career with the County of Fresno,” said Assistant Director of the Fresno County Department of Public Health Joe Prado.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tested the substances and detected at least 20 potentially infectious agents, including coronavirus, HIV, hepatitis and herpes, according to a Health and Human Services letter dated June 6.
Agents also found thousands of package boxes - many with shipping labels from China. Below is a photo included in court documents in California.
I feel safe
Nothing to see here.
Just ask noted Chinese consultant, Navy Roberts Biden.
But no mean Tweets!
Hmm: Multiple Banks Filed Over 170 Suspicious Activity Reports on the Bidens
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/rebeccadowns/2023/07/28/suspicious-bank-reports-n2626334
Six banks, including JP Morgan, Bank of America, and Wells Fargo. All the bribe payments were going through one, to another, then another, then another before being funneled through 20 shell companies owned by the Biden's.
As a famous man once said, "Don't underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up."
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Maybe I am insufficiently familiar with the buzz phrases and label shorthand used by the reviewer here – or perhaps by economists in general – but I don’t understand the debate mentioned. How is “shock therapy” imposed by a “capitalist” dictatorship less acceptable than a centrally planned socialist economy imposed by a socialist dictatorship? I think I get it that “dictatorship” is bad and that economists should not be tempted to “help” a dictator by giving him economic advice. But in Chile the Chicago Boys did not cause the military coup that installed Pinochet as dictator. What is “increasingly pragmatic” about relaxing necessary economic reforms after they had had the intended effect? I think I also understand the point that “libertarians” should not support a military coup in order to achieve “free markets” but I don’t see how dictatorship could “Impose” free markets in the first place! If a society democratically elects a socialist government, that government “imposes” socialist reforms. If a society democratically elects a libertarian government that government would “impose” free market reforms. That’s what government does! It “imposes” policies whether the government was democratically elected or a dictatorship by military coup. So where does the debate come in? Are we saying that a military dictatorship shouldn’t do anything good economically while in power? Are we saying that Friedman shouldn’t have recommended sound economic advice to a dictatorship? Are we saying that the unavoidable downside of correcting runaway inflation with sound economic policies was because it was “imposed” instead of somehow magically “allowed” to happen by the dictatorship? Sheesh!
You're right to ask that, given a fait accompli, why shouldn't libertarian economists work with a murderous dictator like Pinochet?
As a matter of morality, it's despicable. If he (together with the CIA) had overthrown a socialist dictator then there would be some justification. But, socialist though Allende was, he was nonetheless democratically elected albeit somewhat tortuously, and we should have waited for the economy to fail or for him actually to behave in a sufficiently murderous and dictatorial way to consider intervening - without putting a right-wing equivalent in power.
Rather than going in the Hitler direction - should economists have worked with Hitler to improve the German economy? - go in the direction of a small company owned by known mobsters/ murderers . If a consultant were asked to work for them to improve their business, knowing them to be mobsters. should he respond, "sure, just because they're the mob, why shouldn't I help their workers and shareholders?" or should he say (to himself), "I'm not working for murderers"?
I get that. But given that authoritarians are in power in our very own country and that officials are doing despicable things to our very own people, not to mention people all over the world, should we be trying to get them to stop trying to micromanage our economy, or wait until they become sufficiently murderous for us to try to intervene? Should we sit back and wait until the monetary crisis hits or try to get them to stop centrally planning and regulating our economy?
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"Unfortunately, far too many self-styled free market advocates would make a similar deal, arguing that Venezuela or Iraq or some other country would be lucky to have "a Pinochet figure who would impose capitalism." Sadly, the mad dream of a libertarian dictatorship has yet to lose its allure."
So, basically, it's like communism...next time it will be better, because all those other time weren't *really* libertarian dictatorships that imposed capitalism...wasn't done right.
So, exactly what's the point here? The upshot seems to be, "Given the choice, people will choose poor economic policies over good ones".
I'm not sure what the takeaway is supposed to be. The message appears to be, "Pinochet did the right thing, and democracy did the wrong thing. Nevertheless, the democrats are the good guys, and Pinochet is the bad guy".
Unfortunately, far too many self-styled free market advocates would make a similar deal, arguing that Venezuela or Iraq or some other country would be lucky to have "a Pinochet figure who would impose capitalism."
I wouldn't mind a Pinochet figure imposing capitalism on the United States.
Sadly, the mad dream of a libertarian dictatorship has yet to lose its allure.
I'm not seeing where anyone advocated "libertarian dictatorship". Libertarians don't have a monopoly on capitalism. It's seems to work just as well for the Chinese as it does for any democracy, and the Chinese are decidedly not libertarians. I doubt Pinochet ever claimed to be a libertarian, either.
I wouldn’t mind a Pinochet figure imposing capitalism on the United States.
But would you support the overthrow of a legitimately elected government in order to put such a figure on top, followed by mass murders of civilians, and assassination? I have no doubt of the inherent superiority of capitalism over socialism (I have, after all, consistently advocated for the former and against the latter on this site) but that does not justify anti-democratic and murderous conduct to impose capitalism,
Legitimately elected governments are over-rated! Democracy is a better way to choose a government than any other option but that doesn't mean it's a GOOD way to choose a government. The majority can choose a dictatorship and frequently has done so. Stability is theoretically a good thing, as is peaceful transition of power, but a stable condition of evil or a peaceful transition from freedom to serfdom would not be desirable! My preferred method of government would be strict limitation of government authority similar to the intent of the United States Constitution, enforced by violent overthrow of any government that failed to remain within those constitutional limitations.
Tobias Rupprecht put it, that "authoritarian capitalism of the Chilean type" would be "the most reasonable and viable path for a post-Communist Russia."
We saw how that worked out.
he said it would produce a significant but relatively short-lived increase in economic pain. Inflation promptly started to come down, but unemployment wasn't short-lived: The rate was 22 percent in 1976 and stayed at what Edwards calls "extremely high levels until the mid-1980s." Similarly, while shock therapy ensured that the fiscal deficit was all but eliminated by 1978, the average real wage was 23 per cent lower that year than in 1971.
This is the kind of thing that doesn't help you win friends and influence people.
The goal would not be to "win friends and influence people" and, in this case, "unemployment" is preferable to having a significant number of people "employed" by the government to do unproductive tasks to inflate the employment statistics. When a large number of people have money printed by the government so they can buy stuff that they contributed nothing towards producing, inflation is the unavoidable result. It never ceases to amaze me how presumably intelligent people can look at one side of an equation and ignore the other side of the equation while decrying the outcome.
To have your policy maintain popular support, you better convince the people you're applying it to are happy with it.
...convince people are happy?
So convincing your serfs that they're happy is what you think politics is all about? No wonder we're in trouble here! Liberty is my goal for politics. Convincing people to take responsibility for their own defense and their own self-support is the goal and the evidence that they're better off with liberty despite the hard work and thought required is always an uphill battle. When you find out that you're one of the serfs instead of the lord of the manor it may be too late to change things, but carry on with your narrative if you think it's wise.
> And therein lies the unfortunately widespread appeal of imposed capitalism.
This is the problem with the Left in general, and the post-market Right. Capitalism is the relative absence of government economic controls, not the imposition of them. In other words, a government cannot "impose" capitalism on a nation. It's an un-system.
While there are of course mixed economies and mutant strains of capitalism (cronyism, etc)., in modern society capitalism will come about when people are free to exchange with one another.
It is fascism, corporatism, and socialism which requires the government to impose.
I think it's better argued that capitalism is a system, that arises when the government does not impose economic controls - as it's not the only system that can arise when the government isn't imposing. And further, capitalism requires some government controls to preserve itself to avoid cartelisation, for example, or to enforce contracts.
Capitalism does not require ANY "government controls" to preserve itself. The only thing government contributes to a successful capitalist system is to enforce the laws against crime. The potential for "cartelization" never justifies government regulation as the cure is always worse than the problem. Also, the government is not needed to enforce contracts, for similar reasons. Why would anyone contract with an entity that has not honored contracts in the past or with others? Honest disagreements can be settled by mediation.
VDH works out who benefits from unchecked immigration.
Who is this Victor Davis Hanson guy, that I should watch his 11-minute video?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Davis_Hanson
In July 2013, then-Attorney General Eric Holder gave a speech where he mentioned that as a black man he needed to deliver "the Talk" to his son, instructing him how to interact with police as a young black man. In response to Holder's speech, Hanson wrote a column titled "Facing Facts about Race" where he offered his own version of "the Talk", namely the need to inform his children to be careful of young black men when venturing into the inner city, who Hanson argued were statistically more likely to commit violent crimes than young men of other races, and that therefore it was understandable for the police to focus on them.
This question of "libertarian dictatorship" is HUGE.
Marxists, socialists, whatever have done an excellent job of writing the Chilean experience before, during and after Pinochet. Theirs is the only story you will read from crap filtered through the NYTimes to the book reviewed here. Ex:
"Edwards offers a nuanced and insightful analysis of a sequence of corruption scandals that ultimately culminated in the 2019 protests, the 2021 election of Gabriel Boric to the presidency..."
I had been living in Santiago for 2 years when the 2019 "protests" broke out and so-called corruption scandals had nothing to do with it.
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Not much has changed since, asked to comment on the project's geopolitical ramifications, Henry Kissinger responded :
"Chile is a dagger aimed at the heart of Antarctica"
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Boy, would I like to see THAT quote documented.