Here Is Why Trump's 'Contingent' Electors Say They Did Nothing Illegal
Republicans who participated in the scheme say they relied on legal advice grounded in historical precedent.
Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel this week announced criminal charges against 16 Republicans who presented themselves as the state's electors after the 2020 presidential election. Brookings Institution Senior Fellow Norman Eisen and New York University law professor Ryan Goodman responded with a New York Times essay headlined "Trump's Conspirators Are Facing the Music, Finally." As Eisen and Goodman see it, the Michigan defendants participated in a criminal conspiracy to overturn Joe Biden's victory by posing as the state's true electors.
The defendants, of course, do not accept that narrative. As they see it, their conduct was a legitimate way of preserving objections to a contested election, grounded in historical precedent and the advice they received from Donald Trump's lawyers. The "contingent" Trump electors in Georgia, who have been informed that they are targets of a similar investigation by Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis, make the same basic argument. Press coverage of these investigations, which routinely describes the targets as "fake" or "bogus" electors, tends to dismiss that argument out of hand. But it is worth a closer look, because it is central to the question of whether prosecutors can prove that would-be electors who followed the Trump campaign's advice acted with criminal intent.
One target of the Fulton County investigation, which is expected to yield indictments next month, is David Shafer, former chairman of the Georgia Republican Party. On December 14, 2020, the deadline for Electoral College votes, Shafer joined 15 other Republican nominees in signing certificates that identified them as Georgia's "duly elected and qualified" electors, contrary to the results that had been repeatedly confirmed by Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger and Gov. Brian Kemp (both Republicans who supported Trump's reelection). Republican nominees for the Electoral College did essentially the same thing in six other battleground states, including Michigan.
On its face, this looks like a blatant scam, aimed at justifying congressional objections to Biden's electors and delaying or blocking ratification of his victory. But according to Shafer, he acted based on what he believed to be sound legal advice from Trump's lawyers.
In a March 26 letter to Willis, Shafer's attorneys cite a December 10, 2020, email from Alex B. Kaufman, one of the lawyers who represented Trump and Shafer in a state lawsuit, Trump v. Raffensperger, challenging the outcome of the presidential election in Georgia. The CC line includes four other Trump lawyers: Cleta Mitchell, Kurt Hilbert, Ray S. Smith III, and Chris Gardner.
"Based upon the developments both in our state case as well as in the Supreme Court," Kaufman says, "I am reconfirming the importance and our collective advice that our slate of delegates meet on December 14th (per the Federal Deadline) and cast their ballots in favor of President Trump and specifically per the Georgia Election Code. It is essential that our delegates act and vote in the exact manner as if Governor Kemp has certified the Presidential Contest in favor of President Trump. I believe that this is still the most conservative course of action to preserve the best chance for Georgia to ultimately support the President's re election. As we discussed in the 1960 Hawaii case, the convening of our electors and their casting of ballots in favor of President Trump in the specifically required form and manner is necessary in order to preserve our state and party's say in the presidential contest."
The "1960 Hawaii case" refers to a dispute over whether Richard Nixon or John F. Kennedy won the state in that year's presidential election. Nixon initially was declared the winner by a razor-thin margin of 140 votes. Democrats challenged that outcome in court, and a recount ultimately awarded Hawaii's three electoral votes to Kennedy. In the meantime, however, Electoral College nominees from both parties convened on December 19, 1960, the deadline that year. Both groups signed certificates identifying themselves as "duly and legally appointed and qualified" members of the Electoral College, and both sets of certificates were sent to Washington, D.C.
On January 4, 1961, a state judge, Ronald Jamieson, retroactively validated the Democrats' seemingly premature certificates. According to Jamieson's ruling, it was crucial that the electors had convened on December 19, even though their certificates contradicted the official results at the time. Two days later, while overseeing the congressional tally of electoral votes as vice president, Nixon acknowledged that he had received three sets of certificates from Hawaii: the dueling December 19 slates, plus a subsequent Democratic slate that Hawaii's governor certified after the recount. Nixon concluded that the third slate, comprised of the same Democrats who had signed the December 19 certificates, "properly and legally portrays the facts with respect to the electors chosen by the people of Hawaii."
According to Kaufman et al., Shafer would be following that example by presenting himself as a Georgia elector. In both cases, they argued, a pending legal challenge made the outcome of the election uncertain, and the best way to deal with that uncertainty was by submitting a list of "contingent" Republican electors who could be recognized by Congress should the challenge succeed.
Trump's lawsuit, which alleged "significant systemic misconduct, fraud, and other irregularities," was filed on December 4. "The Georgia Election Code requires lawsuits contesting elections to be heard within 20 days of being filed," Shafer's lawyers say. But the case "was never heard or adjudicated," they complain, because "it was not properly assigned to a judge and scheduled for a hearing until January 8, 2021—weeks after the 20 day statutory deadline and 2 days after Congress counted the electoral votes from the states and certified the result." The letter to Willis says Trump and Shafer dropped their lawsuit the day after that happened because it had been "mooted by the inexplicable inaction of the state courts."
Raffensperger, who thoroughly rebutted the lawsuit's claims in a January 6 letter to three Republican members of Congress who planned to lodge objections to Georgia's electoral votes, has a different take. Trump and Shafer "voluntarily dismissed their election contests," he said, "rather than submit their evidence to a court and to cross-examination." Although Shafer's lawyers say the lawsuit was "timely filed," its timing suggests it may have been little more than a pretext for the "contingent" electors plan.
Shafer nevertheless argues that his reliance on Kaufman et al.'s legal advice shows he lacked criminal intent. His lawyers offer several pieces of evidence to support that defense.
The letter to Willis notes that "two lawyers who participated as contingent Republican presidential electors, Brad Carver and Daryl Moody," faced Georgia State Bar complaints as a result. The State Disciplinary Board "reviewed the conduct of the contingent Republican presidential electors" and dismissed the complaints as unsubstantiated. In Carver's case, the board noted that he "relied upon representations" that "it was necessary for the Republican nominees for Presidential Elector to meet and cast votes so that their then-pending election challenge would not be rendered moot." The board therefore "did not find probable cause to believe that Mr. Carver acted with the intent to mislead."
The "representations" on which Carver relied leaned heavily on the Hawaii precedent, and so does the letter to Willis from Shafer's lawyers. "Two of the three Democratic presidential electors who executed the Hawaii electoral documents," they note, "were retired federal judges and noted constitutional scholars." And far from rebuking them for misrepresenting their status on December 19, "Judge Jamieson hailed them as heroes, describing their meeting as a critically important step that preserved their ability for their presidential ballots to be counted after the Democrats prevailed in their election contest and the Governor certified the Democratic contingent presidential electors as having been elected."
Prominent Democrats have echoed that judgment, depicting the Hawaii electors' conduct as a model for handling such situations.
When the U.S. Supreme Court intervened in Florida's recount after the 2000 presidential election, Justice John Paul Stevens noted the Hawaii example in his dissent. "In 1960," Stevens wrote, "Hawaii appointed two slates of electors and Congress chose to count the one appointed on January 4, 1961, well after the Title 3 deadlines." That precedent, he argued, showed that "nothing prevents the majority, even if it properly found an equal protection violation, from ordering relief appropriate to remedy that violation without depriving Florida voters of their right to have their votes counted."
The day after the Court's decision in Bush v. Gore, Rep. Patsy Mink (D–Hawaii) criticized the ruling on similar grounds, arguing that "the [Hawaii] precedent of 40 years ago suggests the means for resolving the electoral dispute in Florida." She said "both slates of electors" could "meet on December 18 and send their certificates to Congress," after which Florida's governor could send Congress "a subsequent certificate of election" based on the recount.
In an essay published a week and a half before the 2020 presidential election, legal scholar Michael L. Rosin and civil rights lawyer Jason Harrow similarly argued that what happened in Hawaii "should serve as a model for a close election this year or in any year." They agreed with Jamieson that the Democratic slate's December 19 meeting was crucial: "Fortunately, because both slates of electors had voted on the proper day, there was still a chance to tell Congress which slate was actually appointed by the voters."
A few days before the 2020 election, former CNN host Van Jones and Harvard law professor Larry Lessig likewise praised the solution that Hawaii reached in 1960. "Even though Richard Nixon said it should not be a precedent, what he did in 1960 should be the model for this election in 2020," they wrote. Regarding the Kennedy electors, Jones and Lessig noted that "the only way their votes could matter was if they were cast on the day that Congress had set."
George Mason law professor Todd Zywicki, who gave congressional testimony about the laws governing presidential elections and transitions in the midst of the Bush-Gore dispute and subsequently published a law review article on the subject, quotes those approving comments in a declaration that Shafer's lawyers presented to Willis. Zywicki agrees that Kaufman et al.'s legal advice to Shafer was sound:
It is my expert opinion that the contingent Republican Presidential Electors in Georgia in 2020 acted in a reasonable, proper, and lawful manner. Moreover, it is my opinion, shared by a consensus of experts who have considered the issue over the past several decades, that the casting of contingent electoral votes is not only reasonable, proper and lawful, but the best approach available to enable the resolution of election contests while preserving the ability of a state to have its electoral votes counted by Congress should a judicial contest change the outcome of the election. In conclusion, it is my opinion that the actions taken by the contingent Georgia Republican Presidential Electors were lawful, reasonable, proper, and necessary, and any suggestion that they could be "criminal" ignores legal and historical precedent, the reasoned advice of legal counsel received, and the plain language of the Constitution, federal and Georgia law.
Consistent with what Trump adviser John Eastman said at the time, Shafer maintains that his role as a "contingent" elector was limited to making sure that an alternative slate would be available should Trump's lawsuit prove successful. "Media reports have suggested that certain high level members of then President Trump's legal team (John Eastman, Rudy Giuliani, et al.) may have developed subsequent plans to, among other things, attempt to persuade Vice President Pence to count these contingent presidential electoral votes as the valid electoral votes even in the absence of any successful judicial ruling in President Trump's favor," Shafer's lawyers say. "Mr. Shafer was not involved in and had no knowledge of any such plans. According to media reports, these plans were not even conceived until several weeks after the Republican electors had cast their contingent electoral votes on December 14, 2020."
It is still possible, of course, that Shafer acted in bad faith, both in joining Trump's lawsuit and in citing it to justify presenting himself as an elector. Maybe he did not really believe Trump's unsubstantiated claims about "systemic misconduct, fraud, and other irregularities" sufficient to change the outcome of the election in Georgia. Maybe he knowingly participated in a fraud aimed at reversing Biden's victory, or at least casting doubt on its legitimacy.
As with the potential federal charges against Trump himself, the sincerity of defendants who embraced the stolen-election narrative is legally relevant, open to question, and difficult to disprove. Did the "contingent" electors cynically manipulate the system by questioning the election results based on claims they knew to be false? Or did they pursue a remedy they thought was legal based on objections they viewed as valid? Both interpretations are plausible, which will present a problem for prosecutors with the burden of proving their case beyond a reasonable doubt.
[This post has been revised to include additional information about the voluntary dismissal of Trump v. Raffensperger.]
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Regardless of how the courts end up interpreting the law, defendant’s state of mind, reliance on legal opinion/precedent, etc. it is a terrible law. If someone actually tried to trick Congress, okay, fine, I could see that being a criminal act. But, everyone knew the situation. Everyone knew the slate of electors certified by the secretary and governor. There was zero risk of the wrong vote being cast.
To me, being a “fake elector” falls into the bucket as “stolen valor”, when someone falsely claims to be a veteran. Sure, make it illegal if they make a credible attempt to get benefits reserved for veterans, but otherwise, their freedom of speech allows them to claim to be the pope, if they like. Different story, perhaps in the 18th century, when Congress could conceivably be tricked into accepting the wrong ballots, but in this day and age, you’d need a plan a heck of a more detailed than: “create a ballot saying my guy won” for me to believe one actually tried to steal an election.
Everyone knew the slate of electors certified by the secretary and governor. There was zero risk of the wrong vote being cast.
This is the key part. It has to be certified by the state. They did not forge signatures or submit it to Congress. They just had a form ready as courts were going over election issues.
But this is modern democrat lawfare.
Except they did submit them.
https://www.archives.gov/foia/2020-presidential-election-unofficial-certificates
Were they signed by the SoS? No??? Oh weird you left that part off.
Do you understand how the process works? Do you understand what a forgery requires?
Nobody was confused by this form here. Not one person was defrauded.
“Oh weird you left that part off.”
Baffling, isn’t it.
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The democrats cannot continue to exist. It’s them or us. Period.
The sad part is that they were right, and the electors that were certified were the fraudulent ones.
As the evidence of election interference continues to grow, it becomes harder and harder to imagine that there wasn’t sufficient, on-the-ground fraud to make a difference in the outcome.
They should have re-done the election.
This is a key point: there is a difference between violating a terrible law and a law that is terrible. Sometimes people have had to violate bad laws in order to earn the right to appeal the law itself to a higher court and, maybe, get that law overturned. In fact, some Americans in our history have become heroes doing just that.
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You just did a story on this topic yesterday, why is there no coverage of the Biden bribery scandal? I would think the sitting president being credibly accused of taking bribes would be warrant at least some coverage.
It might get mentioned in three years
Once the dems get through the election and need to dump Joe, Reason will mention it. Then claim they were always talking about it. Like they did with some of the J6 trials.
Damage first, talk second. When it helps the acceptable narratives.
If I bought Reason, and made the staff actually write libertarian content, I wonder how fast they would all quit? And I know they get a lot of money from Koch, but who owns this rag?
Charles Koch, friend of George Soros and who also goes to the WEF. David Koch was the libertarian, and when he passed on, Reason really slid into this libertine authoritarianism we see today.
Because that is a local story.
Let me suggest the key element is “credibly accused” when that happen it will be a story worth covering, until then it is not a story, And to this point with President Biden there is only accusations.
So sayeth the protector of the regime.
We just had two IRS whistleblowers testify before Congress on this, even if you think they’re lying, shouldn’t it at least be covered. Oh, and by the way, credibly accused is a very low bar to clear, see the Christine Blasely Ford accusation.
They covered the IRS wb testimony in the morning links yesterday 7/20.
Multiple witnesses. Known wire transfers. Hunters own emails. Pictures of Joe with hunters associates and even foreign nationals related to the business.
What isnt credible dumdum?
I believe it is the part where a D is involved in wrongdoing in M4Es world.
Whats funny is he spent years called Basley Ford credible.
“Let me suggest the key element is “credibly accused” when that happen it will be a story worth covering”
Oh wow, M4e’s definition of credible apparently doesn’t include hundreds of documents, emails, hard drives, bank records and witness testimony given under oath before congress.
For extra fun and impressive acrobatics, now ask him about Trump and confidential documents.
With everything you mentioned, I’ll bet there isn’t a member of the LieCheatSteal party that will say there is any evidence of The Big Guy’s wrongdoing.
It was all Hunter and his other relatives.
There wasn’t anywhere near this much evidence for Nixon, but Republican senators, being more honest than the opposition, were ready to remove him after impeachment. That’s why he resigned.
I don’t see the dishonorable LieCheatSteal senators as ready to do that.
They are akin to the OJ jury.
Blasey Ford’s story had more holes in it than the titanic, but multiple writers that still work here opined on her “credible accusations”.
“…why is there no coverage of the Biden bribery scandal?”
The asshole Sullum’s raging case of TDS.
I respect the people who prepared and signed documents indicating they would constitute elector declarations ‘if objections are vindicated and these electors are therefore duly elected.’ Those persons should be thanked for their propriety and cleared of any misconduct.
The people who disregarded that advice and claimed to be duly elected and qualified when they were not deserve conviction and imprisonment.
And you deserve to die alone and friendless.
Enh, he’ll have company at his death from whoever finally exterminates him.
Sadly, a beta like Kirkland knows his place in the pecking order, so the likelihood of his doing anything other than pissing himself and apologizing when confronted by an actual man is zero.
He’ll be like Tom Parsons in 1984 and believe he deserved it.
The only thing your assertion demonstrates is your lack of any semblance of legal knowledge. Each state has different legal criteria for what constitutes perpetuation of evidence and preserving your right to appeal. The affidavits are worded in each state to comply with those requirements. You only have standing in court if you were personally damaged. It’s up to the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you intended to commit fraud by your actions which is highly unlikely to apply in any honest court, your fake partisan outrage notwithstanding.
Republicans who participated in the scheme say
they relied on legal advice grounded in historical precedent.I’m an idiot. That’s my defense and I’m sticking to it.FIFY
It’s worked well for you so far.
Jfree not only wants the unvaccinated locked up, but also those he dislikes.
That’s a common trait among weak men.
It was probably the legal advice from people like Lawrence Lessig in 2016, when people did the same thing for Hillary.
But yes, you are an idiot.
Don’t confuse “faithless electors” with “fake electors”. They are different.
What is the difference?
Hillary tried to convince republican electors to vote for her. Alternate electors are in place in case a lawsuit goes one way or another.
These Trump electors are true Heroes of the Republic. Their names, whatever they are, should be etched into stone monuments in the capital and printed into every US history book as patriots of the highest caliber. These brave men and women, along with true luminaries such as Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, John Eastman, and Trump himself, are the only real Americans that we have standing to save the Republic from the lawless corrupt criminal socialist Biden regime. Not only should these patriots not be prosecuted, but they should be publicly exonerated, these corrupt prosecutors should fall down on their knees and apologize in front of a thousand cameras about the grave sins they have committed not just to these brave people but to the nation, to the world, nay, to the very cause of liberty itself, and then these Trump Patriot Heroes should be given the opportunity to plunge a Dagger of Justice straight through the hearts of these treasonous snakes on live TV to send a clear message that the Tree of Liberty is quite overdue for some nourishment.
Reminder that chemjeff seeks to molest prepubescent children
He just wants to watch little kids touch men in dresses, who have only pure intent and are 100% not pedophiles.
Reminder: Nardz wants to murder people.
His accusation has some semblance of reality to it. Yours does not.
I like to think you were crying as you typed that out. It makes me giggle.
Well then, who is standing to save the Republic from the lawless corrupt criminal national socialist Trump regime?
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https://twitter.com/jason_meister/status/1682093527147094026?t=b_ZWFnuccrWM1ly-kgo4hQ&s=19
So Donald Trump was impeached for Joe Biden’s treason, extortion, money laundering, influence peddling, tax evasion, and espionage.
Yep.
That’s about the size of it.
Classic Alinsky.
This is ridiculous. They falsely claimed they were the electors. They submitted the fraudulent documents the the National Archives. They did this in an attempt to install an unelected president. They were part of a plan to directly destroy our democracy. Of course they need to be prosecuted. It is so weird that so many “conservatives” who claim love the constitution are so supportive of this, which goes directly against the constitution.
Go take some Pamprin and lie down–you’re hysterical.
The point is that if they did not act as delegates and vote, and there was a recount that went in Trumps favor that could be another legal issue. This seems to be common nowadays, let’s take it down a notch.
> They did this in an attempt to install an unelected president.
How would this have even worked? The National Archives would have gotten two sets of ballots from the same state, one signed by the Secretary of State, and one not signed the the Secretary. One call to the Secretary to double check later, and the correct ballots get sent on. And that is pretty much the worst case scenario. Chances are the fake ballot packet might as well have been drawn in crayon for how obviously it isn’t the real thing. In this modern era of telephones and everyone knowing who won which states the night of the election (not to mention Google: it doesn’t take a super genius to figure out that the Georgia GOP party chairman wasn’t the correct elector), the idea of someone somehow slipping in fake electoral college ballots is preposterous. It is such an absurd plan that it can be easily dismissed as their intent.
Except that everyone DIDN’T know who won which states on election night.
It took days, and sometimes weeks, for the final counts to be presented.
And with the “anomalies”, late-counted disproportionate results, and testimony of “watchers”, the final results were, to a great many people, never accurately reported.
Even if what you say is true it is irrelevant to the criminal charges. Turn your question around: how would the fraud alleged here have worked? Are you trying to claim that they thought that because they signed affidavits claiming to be the electors the system would have somehow declared Trump to be the winner? Are you claiming that the Electoral College would somehow have been fooled by the affidavits into counting the votes of the wrong Electors for Trump and have declared Trump the winner? How is a fraud committed with no logical way to have profited from it? The ONLY way these affidavits make sense is in the context of possible future legal action to appeal the election process and preserve the alternate electors’ position legally. That is not fraud by any reasonable definition.
None of that is, or should be, illegal. Lying in court under oath to get away with violating a good law should be punishable. Signing an affidavit that it’s your opinion that something went wrong with the election that you hope will be reversed on appeal in order to perpetuate evidence and preserve your legal rights is not illegal and there is legal precedent to support that. Only your wrong opinion is ridiculous here. The reality will play out in court. Until then it’s highly likely that criminal charges have been “fraudulently” preferred by partisan prosecutors as part of the political and cultural wars currently raging across America, and you’re not helping to put the fire out one little bit with this.
https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1682089611105804294?t=Ii2J_1ZTzN7lDu7AC8Gr2Q&s=19
The FBI source, whose report was hidden by corrupt FBI agents, told the agency that Burisma’s founder had 17 recordings of his bribery conversations with the Biden’s. Two of the recordings included conversations with Joe Biden himself, while 15 were with Hunter Biden.
“Zlochevsky stated he has two ‘documents (which CHS understood to be wire transfer statements, bank records, etc.), that evidence some payment(s) to the Bidens were made, presumably in exchange for Shokin’s firing.”
Shokin was the Burisma prosecutor who was fired at Joe Biden’s personal demand.
Instead of following the trail of evidence handed to DOJ and FBI on a silver platter, the following happened: Democrats impeached Trump, FBI raided Trump’s home, the DOJ charged Trump with felonies, and the FBI and DOJ together hid this document, banned investigators from questioning the Biden family and even secretly tipped the Biden family off about the investigation, and then gave Hunter Biden a sweetheart plea deal to immunize him and make the whole investigation go away.
This is the biggest corruption scandal in American history, and it’s not even close.
[Link]
Jeffy says there is no concrete evidence the FBI and DOJ are corrupt.
The only evidence needed to prove government corruption, or really any left wing corruption, is a plausible theory presented by one of America’s finest patriots on Twitter.
On the other hand, to prove corruption on the part of any Patriotic Republican requires being caught in the act by a dozen nuns, and even then, the nuns are probably lying communists.
Well, it’s backed up by the laptop, the whatsapp message, a recorded phone call of Joe to Hunter, and two IRS whistleblowers.
That is far more than enough probable cause for a warrant?
Well it would be if it wasn’t directed at a Democrat.
The FBI deliberately withheld knowledge about Hunter’s laptop from the public in the fall of 2020 in order to protect Biden and help Democrats. The proof is overwhelming and concrete and undeniable because it consists of tweets from our finest American patriots.
It consists of sworn testimony. Moron.
I recall when Oliver North got investigated over a $200 set of snow tires.
“This is the biggest corruption scandal in American history, and it’s not even close.”
Makes the Crédit Mobilier and Teapot Dome scandals look like unfortunate accidents.
The scariest part is the Soviet style collusion with the alphabet agencies and the press to cover it up.
Apparently, if the legacy media is asked, nothing has happened, except that Trump is being indicted, again.
And that’s all their followers know.
https://twitter.com/austerrewyatt1/status/1681782401951752197?t=5_VxaPmKQUsaaQ4QEmv-Ig&s=19
The World Health Organization created a new executive position at their agency called “Director-General Special Envoy for Climate Change and Health”
Big surprise, the woman heading it is John Kerry’s daughter.
It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it!
As long as she hets to fly in private jets around the planet to attend conferences about how bad air travel is.
“Big surprise, the woman heading it is John Kerry’s daughter.”
What a remarkable coincidence. The Special Envoy for Climate’s daughter just happens to be the best person to be Special Envoy for Climate Change and Health.
It must be genetic.
And the Chief Medical Officer of the World Health Organization conspired with Fauci and Collins to cover up illegal gain of function bat virus experiments at Wuhan and cast aspersions on conspiracy theorists who dared to blame Chinese incompetence and Centers for Disease Control malfeasance for the COVID pandemic. Who could ever have guessed that it’s not safe to follow the science any more?
https://twitter.com/julie_kelly2/status/1682218596728971271?t=BnJ4AOFOlWMIHpPzkCaQ3Q&s=19
Bill Barr said the FBI document related to the Burisma/Biden CHS was given to David Weiss. We don’t know when or how Barr knew this. If he was aware of this before the election and refused to appoint a special counsel to protect the investigation, he must explain why.
From the comments:
“Barr sold out his country and his party when he gave Hillary a pass “in the interests of Justice and an end to controversy”?
Barr ranks with Garland, Wray, Comey and his wife’s BFs the Mueller’s as one of the greatest charlatans and phonies in US History!
Now he pedals a case guilting Trump as to the Mar A Lago classified documents after giving Hillary a pass for far more serious crimes with top secret material! Barr was a loathsome agent provocateur as AG!
The DOJ was corrupt then and remains so to this day under Garland! If the latter is impeached Barr will become exhibit one!”
Many leftist call what happened, before January 20, 2021, as being done by “Trump’s people”.
What they are not admitting is that everything was done by the deep state, and Trump had no control over their actions.
Bill Barr was about as deep state as you could get.
And the deep state wanted to protect LieCheatSteal party members, at all costs, knowing that the media would cover for them.
It amazes me that someone can write an article that lays out the complete history of the legality, acknowledged by both sides of the aisle and all levels of the court, of these people’s actions and then conclude that there could still be a criminal case against them…
I see two alternate theories of prosecution:
1) The jury gets to decide the fakeness of the alternate electors, in which case that challenges Congress’ exclusive authority to count the ballots and hence decide who’s a real elector
or
2) The jury is bound by Congress’ decision on who’s a real elector, in which case what happens to the right to have a jury decide your guilt or innocence?
Perhaps the judge before whom this case is brought will have the moral and mental fortitude to dismiss, with prejudice, these overtly political nuisance cases, and bar those bringing them from ever entering his/her courtroom again!
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Whether or not Trump committed any crimes in connection with the Electoral College process, Alternate Electors clearly did not commit fraud when they signed affidavits to preserve their legal rights to appeal the outcome. A scam is when you try to con someone personally out of something they possess by lying to them. Fraud is when you deliberately lie for personal gain. People who are perpetrating a scam or committing fraud typically do not take legal action in plain public sight. If that was the definition of fraud, every time someone files a lawsuit that is eventually ruled against them has committed fraud because they were wrong. When your arguments fail to prevail in court the remedy is to lose the lawsuit, not to be charged with a crime.
“Shafer joined 15 other Republican nominees in signing certificates that identified them as Georgia’s “duly elected and qualified” electors.”
“Duly elected & qualified” by the GA GOP presumably — or some portion of the GA GOP that didn’t include SoS Raffensperger and Gov. Kemp.
So what’s to prevent any group of partisans from declaring themselves “duly elected & qualified” and preparing ballots to send to Congress? Without the State government’s own certification?
Why don’t we see 100 Electoral ballots — two from each state — in every election?
This has to be one of the weakest legal arguments I’ve heard. And saying it came from Trump’s lawyers adds nothing to its credibility. Wasn’t Trump lawyer Giuliani the one who said, “We have lots of theories, but no evidence”? (Or words to that effect.)
> So what’s to prevent any group of partisans from declaring themselves “duly elected & qualified” and preparing ballots to send to Congress? Without the State government’s own certification?
Nothing. Just as nothing stops me from declaring myself Pope or King of England. Presumably, the National Archives would filter out the fake ballots and just send the real ones to Congress. So, other than a few minutes wasted in the National Archives, no real harm done.
The primary reason why States generally don’t send two sets of ballots to the Electoral College is because most States can competently run an election, and complete it on Election day.
Historically, and that includes the 2020 election, when there’s a question as to which ballots would be valid, it makes sense to send both sets to meet deadlines, along with an asterisk that says “We’re still trying to figure out which set is the correct one — we’ll get back to you on that!”
This isn’t hard to understand.
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By the time of this meeting the people in that room should ALL have been able to tell that the claims about the election especially in Michigan were pathetic lies.
One of the early claims was that some townships in MI had over 100% voter turnout, but most of the townships listed were not even IN Michigan! Surely they would have known that the claim was a lie.
The list of 20,000 supposedly dead voters in Michigan was a list of five people who died that had the same name as a voter and the rest were findagrave listings of people who had a spouse die and bought a headstone with both names. If they did not see through this lie it was because they did not want to see through it.
Another claim was that ballots arrived at the counting center hours after the 8pm deadline, but they surely knew that the deadline was for the voters to get their ballots dropped off not for them to have been picked up, put through signature verification and then transported to the counting center.
Before you do something like this, I would think you would look into the claims. If you do not bother looking into the claims because you want to believe them then that is on you.