Ron DeSantis' Border Plan: Invade Mexico, Shoot Drug Smugglers, End Birthright Citizenship
The 2024 hopeful has put together a platform full of big-government action.

Most governors don't enter presidential races with immigration experience under their belts. Not so for Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis—the 2024 hopeful has made a name for himself as a tough-on-migrants politician. From flying asylum seekers to Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, last year, to supporting an E-Verify mandate that threatens to force undocumented workers out of Florida, DeSantis has been busy proving his hardliner bona fides.
Yesterday, while visiting the U.S.-Mexico border in Eagle Pass, Texas, DeSantis pitched his vision for a federal border policy. A detailed version of that platform was released on his website yesterday as well, featuring four pillars: "stop the invasion," "build the wall," "hold cartels accountable," and "work with states to enforce the law." The site proposes mass deportations, finishing the border wall, military action in Mexico (including port blockades), ending birthright citizenship, and allowing the use of deadly force against suspected drug smugglers who get through the border wall.
DeSantis' platform would dramatically expand the size and spending of the federal government and make life far more difficult for peaceful, long-present undocumented immigrants, not just new border crossers.
He would bring back the Trump-era "Remain in Mexico" policy, which required migrants to await their immigration court hearings in Mexico, often facing murders, kidnappings, and rapes in dangerous border towns. He seemingly wants to expand Immigration and Customs Enforcement's deportation mandate to include "illegal alien entries" writ large, not just dangerous criminals and terrorists. And he plans to "strengthen and enforce" the federal E-Verify system, which could keep undocumented immigrants from working and force American workers to get a government permission slip to do their jobs.
Some parts of this pillar would almost certainly run into legal challenges. He "will take action to end the idea that the children of illegal aliens are entitled to birthright citizenship," challenging the longstanding interpretation of the 14th Amendment. He also wants to "close the Flores loophole that incentivizes child trafficking"—i.e., the legal agreement that requires migrant kids to be released from detention within 20 days. "It is part of a federal court order, so it's unclear how he could close it," notes the Associated Press.
Other policies are vague or hypocritical. One section calls for the prosecution of "entities that aid or conspire to violate U.S. immigration laws." Does that include humanitarian groups who work to keep border crossers from dying in the desert? Another says DeSantis will end "any government funding for non-citizen travel." What would this DeSantis say to the DeSantis who just this month used state funds to fly migrants to California?
Much of the Florida governor's border platform mirrors former President Donald Trump's, but he differentiates himself by saying he'll get done what Trump couldn't—including the border wall. DeSantis proposes sending the military "to assist the border patrol" until the wall is built and that he'll "use every dollar available to him" and "every dollar he can squeeze out of Congress" to finish construction. (Trump's border wall came out to roughly $20 million a mile. DeSantis says there are 600 miles "open" along the U.S.-Mexico border.)
To "hold cartels accountable," DeSantis plans to take wartime measures. "If the Mexican government drags its feet, DeSantis reserves the right to operate across the border," notes his website. "If the Mexican government won't stop cartel drug manufacturing, DeSantis will surge resources to the Navy and the Coast Guard and block precursor chemicals from entering Mexican ports." There is no universe where literalizing the war on drugs and violating Mexican sovereignty would be a good use of resources, much less halt the northward fentanyl supply.
The last pillar on DeSantis' website suggests imposing "firm penalties on sanctuary jurisdictions," which DeSantis calls "lawless." Responding to an audience member, DeSantis said that "Texas has the right to declare an invasion," something that he promises to defend (constitutional, legal, and practical definitions of invasion be damned).
In what might've been the splashiest moment of his remarks yesterday, DeSantis suggested using "deadly force" against suspected drug smugglers or people breaking through border enforcements. His campaign later clarified that this would apply to "those trying to smuggle drugs into the United States," but it's far from clear how border authorities would determine that before dispensing said deadly force. Customs and Border Patrol policy authorizes deadly force only when there's "a reasonable belief" that someone "poses an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury" to an agent or other individual.
DeSantis has proven all too willing to embrace authoritarian approaches to immigration in Florida. Given the chance, he looks poised to do the very same in Washington.
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That all sounds good to me. Bring it.
Ditto. Trump should make DeSantis Secretary of Everything in 2024.
vice president
End Dual citizenship.
Loyal to two nations? Fuck off.
Rob Rob Rob. I'm rarely serious.
Jooooooos!
I'm sold. Go Ron!
Is he related to the Chipping Norton Windsock?
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It's not even "ending birthright citizenship", it's interpreting it honestly and according to its original meaning as explicitly stated by the fucking authors of the amendment.
"Subject to the jurisdiction thereof..."—stop ignoring that part.
I'm waiting for the sovereign citizens to realize all they have to do is go to Mexico, renounce their US citizenship, then re-enter the US illegally, to make all the claims of not being subject to the jurisdiction of the United State 100% true.
You could just read what senators Trumbull and Howard, the 14th amendment's authors, said on the senate floor.
"Subject to the jurisdiction of the US" is a claim made on one's status via their parents' citizenship, not their physical location when they happen to pop out of their mother.
It doesn’t matter what they said on the Senate floor. They didn't write it into the Amendment. And what matters is what’s written in the Amendment: “All persons born or naturalized within the US and subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” A child born in the US is subject to the jurisdiction of the US at the moment of birth– unless, and only unless, that child’s parents are in the employ of a foreign government at the time of the child’s birth. There is no wiggle room here. The language is plain. To end birthright citizenship requires a Constitutional amendment rewriting this portion of the 14th. End of story.
Oh, another "living constitution" midwit.
"Words mean what I want them to mean now, not what they meant when they were used!"
Next you'll tell us how it doesn't matter that "well regulated" meant kept in working order when the bill of rights was written, because now "regulated" means subject to rules written by bureaucrats.
Begone, tumor.
You can't read. The plain language of the Constitution comes first. What it SAYS, not what you WANT it to say, or what someone said on the floor of the Senate BEFORE it was written in plain language. If they had wanted parentage considered, they would have written it in, in plain language! Your name-calling only underscores the weakness of your "argument," and you don't know what the "living document" people even mean by that term. You also don't know your Second Amendment, but I've been fighting the battle for gun rights on the Internet since 1989, and I don't know you, poser.
Illegal aliens in the US are not "subject to the jurisdiction of the US", they are subject to the jurisdiction of their countries of birth.
(Like diplomats, of course, they still have to obey most US laws, but are exempted from some of them.)
This is demonstrably not true. No court has ever agreed with you. Wong Kim Ark. Read up on it. It is the law. We don't like it, but it is the law. The 14th Amendment was badly written. It needs amending to settle this issue legally.
Well, they did say it. That's why they say "subject to the jurisdiction thereof." Otherwise, they just would have left it at, "All persons born or naturalized within the US."
Technically, any US citizen that renounced their citizenship would immediately become stateless unless they became naturalized somewhere else assuming they don’t already hold dual citizenship. So, either way, if or when they came back into the US legally or illegally, they are returning under the jurisdiction of whatever country they have decided to claim an allegiance to and who’s “jurisdiction” they now fall under.
Renouncing your citizenship and allegiance to the US means you no longer get the benefits and protections that come with it.
I.e US government/military rescuing you from abroad, or the special treatment foreign governments may give to US citizens so as not to start a war with the US to name a few.
"subject to the jurisdiction thereof" means "subject to the laws of the U.S." If you truly believe in originalism, that is a pretty standard mid-19th century phrase in the law, so we can discern it's meaning based on the legal usage at the time. Back then, it covered diplomats and their staffs (who were then and to some extent still are not subject to U.S. laws); they can be expelled for breaking the law, but they can't be imprisoned or fined or otherwise punished for doing do. There was and is some room for argument at the margins over whether certain people are "subject to the law" (like if foreign militaries invaded, they would probably be deemed not "subjects" of U.S. law), but otherwise it's a pretty well understood phrase.
Illegal immigrants are subject to U.S. law. They can be arrested, tried, convicted and punished for breaking the law and that means they are subject to it. If they are not subject to the laws of the U.S. then the worst the U.S. should be able to do to them for any crimes they commit is expel them from the country, but that has never been the practice.
The drafters' may have had their own opinions on how such questions should be resolved, but they didn't write those into the law...they used the normal and well-understood language of the day. The States that then ratified the Amendments didn't have a record of the congressional debates or any other way to unlock the secret intents hidden in the hearts of the drafters, so we have to take the plain text at its plain meaning at the time as a reasonable person would have understood it.
We're free to change it, by amending the Constitution.
Subject to the law and subject to the jurisdiction of mean different things.
The former is to criminal actions while the latter is more of a authoritative situation, which an illegal alien doesn't fall under.
The only SCOTUS case was Wong Kim Ark, both of whose parents were here legally.
Yes, and that case was wrongly decided.
If only there were a record of the thoughts and intentions of the framers of the constitution.
They’re called the Federalist Papers.
But the 14th Amendment showed up much later than those.
https://twitter.com/ClaremontInst/status/1673758071120601092?t=Yf-7mfeq8rRUucPbrfh5-A&s=19
"Whether or not to have birthright citizenship for the children of noncitizens is a fundamental political question. But like so many other political questions, this one is ruled out of bounds by scholars, lawyers, experts, pundits, and professional moralists.
The American people did not willingly, knowingly, or politically adopt birthright citizenship. They were maneuvered into it by the Left and by the Left-allied judiciary. They’ve never debated it or voted on it. They’ve simply been told that it’s required by the Constitution."
- Michael Anton
[Link]
The 14th Amendment was a creation of the Left? Sure, anything is possible. Maybe they were reading Marx in their spare time.
But illegal aliens are not “subject to the laws of the US”: they do not have the obligations that come with citizenship.
For example, if I move abroad, I still have to pay US taxes because. If an illegal alien moves out of the US, they don’t have to pay US taxes because they are not subject to US jurisdiction.
Illegal aliens only have to obey laws in the same way diplomats have to: because of their physical presence in the country, not because they are subject to US jurisdiction.
You really want to stand on that? So an illegal alien who commits a felony in America is immune from prosecution, because he is "not subject to the laws of the US."
I'll wait for your agreement, I got all day.
Illegal aliens only have to obey laws in the same way diplomats have to: because of their physical presence in the country, not because they are subject to US jurisdiction.
Subject to jurisdiction =/= subject to US laws. Just stop.
BINGO! that is the clause that the open borders morons like to ignore, but it is the most important part.
Right you are. It was never meant to confrr birthright citizenship.
But it does, because it was written badly. The plain, unambiguous, uninterpreted text of the Constitution comes first, not intent.
The way it was written is fine. The way it is construed by lefty shits who scream and cry and redefine words to get their way just happens to be retarded, like lefty shits.
It was not written badly. In fact, it was enforced as no birthright citizenship for decades. Indians (Native Americans) were not considered citizens until 1924. It was an act of Congress, not a Constitutional amendment.
My sentiments, exactly.
If I were an authoritarian and I had the power, I would send all yawl to Mexico in exchange for 13 million more hard-working, christian, family-oriented, conscientious Mexicans. They’re much better neighbors right now then any of yawl will ever be and they’re contributing much more to my region economically and socially than yawl could ever in a million years. Go take your nasty asses back into the caves where you were spawned!
Eat a bullet, tumor.
https://twitter.com/EPoe187/status/1673777646499663873?t=uHixycx-bdQWtG6Q72KPRA&s=19
Morality is often a disguise for aggression and hatred. It's a way to take revenge on others. This might explain why many of the most woke people are unpleasant and fanatical. Their desire for social justice is a cloak for their seething enmity. They want to destroy rivals.
In less than a generation after your plan was implemented Mexico would become the most prosperous nation on earth.
I agree. The inn is full. Do it.
What about Ketches and Sloops? Would you send them south, too?
I got this reference!
Well, as a hard working immigrant, I may well take your advice.
When I immigrated, I didn't sign up for the crap people like you are peddling, MWAocdoc.
Six hours ago The Guardian reported :
US health alert over malaria cases in Florida and Texas
Florida and Texas are seeing some locally acquired cases of malaria - the first spread of the mosquito-transmitted disease inside the US in 20 years, officials warn in a health alert.
Active surveillance for more cases is continuing, the Centres for Disease Control says.
I agree. The inn is full. Do it.
He’s got my vote!
It’s not like it hasn’t happened before. That’s where RE Lee and a bunch of other Rebs cut their chops, after all.
But the failed hedge fund gay gov of Colorado the hero to Reason will ensure kids coaxed to be sterilized by groomers are taken from their parents by force. Yep got it..we have Reason's priorities straight.
"I'm a bigger dick than Trump!"
Literally worse than Trump.
The deficit is multiple-trillions, cops are out of control, the drug war wages on, asset forfeiture remains, the regulatory state continues to grow, and the candidates are competing over who will kill more brown people.
How is enforcing immigration law "killing brown people"?
What's worse than Hitler?
Write it down:
Trump: Literally worse than Hitler
DeSantis: Literally worse than Trump
Josh Hawley: Literally worse than Ron DeSantis.
It is mathematically possible for DeSantis to be worse than Trump, for Hawley to be worse than DeSantis, and for Trump to be worse than Hawley. 🙂
Nothing is better than ice cream
Crackers are better than nothing
Therefore, crackers are better than ice cream.
Is this the formula you are proposing?
No. I am talking genuine mathematical/logical possibility – it’s an intransitivity paradox, like a set of three dice such that whichever die you choose, I can choose one of the other two which will probably beat your die when we throw them together. (Oddly, it’s related to voting paradoxes.)
Consider three qualities A, B, and C that the candidates have to a greater or lesser degree. Suppose we rank candidates as follows
A: Trump, DeSantis, Hawley B: DeSantis, Hawley, Trump C: Hawley, Trump, DeSantis
And a candidate is worse than another candidate if more often he is ranked lower than the other candidate.
Now if Trump faces DeSantis, he beats DeSantis on two out of three qualities (A and C) – So DeSantis is worse. If DeSantis is facing Hawley, he beats Hawley on two out of three (A and B), so Hawley is worse. And if Hawley faces Trump, he beats Trump on two our of three (B and C) so Trump is worse.
The paradox can be avoided if you can actually quantify accurately both ranking and value of qualities. But you can’t.
This intransitivity can often be seen in sport - Team A beats Team B beats Team C beats Team A, because of the nature of their strengths and weaknesses.
Pence: dreamy
You're gerbil needs fed.
I wish everybody would stop saying literally.
Hitler*b^2
What’s worse than Hitler?
Lizzo?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12230309/Lizzo-blows-fans-away-high-energy-performance-Glastonburys-Pyramid-Stage.html?ico=topics_pagination_desktop
Lizzo looks incredible in an edgy jumpsuit as she blows fans away with a high energy performance on Glastonbury’s Pyramid Stage
Definitely worse than Hitler.
Edit: I can't even scroll through the whole thing. Makes my eyes hurt.
"Literally worse than Trump."
As opposed to figuratively worse than trump?
Anyone here illegally should be deported. Martha's Vineyard should become the asylum home to every Palestian who wished to get out of the Gaza prison. The Fed shut down...every federal agency created after 1960 shut down..and that's just a start. Go Ron...
Yes Sarc, yes you are.
I didn't say I have a bigger dick than Trump.
We don't know that for sure. Has DeSantis ever been with Stormy Daniels?
Casey D doesn't look like a chick who would stick around for the tiny mushroom
Da Meatball is certain to win over Ann Coulter with this policy.
Conservative pundit Ann Coulter has accused former President Donald Trump of "betraying" his base and being "abjectly stupid" in his inability to deliver on his promise to build a border wall.
.
Although Coulter wrote the bestseller In Trump We Trust, E Pluribus Awesome! ahead of the 2016 presidential campaign, the right-wing firebrand has become ever more critical of the former president.
.
In an interview on Andrew Sullivan's Dishcast on November 5, Coulter said she knew what Trump's character was like before he was elected but supported him anyway because of his immigration policy and pledge to build the wall on the southern U.S. border.
Fatass Donnie lies about everything, Ann.
Whenever I see that woman I wonder if any zoos are missing giraffes.
The only reason I know she's even still a thing is because a guy with "Sarah Palin" in his gamer tag posts about her.
Okay. That's pretty funny right there.
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And it's Shrike's second one after his original was banned for posting CP here.
"...to supporting an E-Verify mandate that threatens to force undocumented workers out of Florida..."
You mean he wants to enforce the law?
How dare he!!!
”undocumented workers”
Leftist Libertarians for idiot speak
Leftist 'libertarians' speak and demonstrate they are idiots? So, no change to day to day affairs around here.
Isn’t leftist libertarian a bit redundant? I mean, anyone who disagrees with Republicans is a leftist, right? So what if leftists would call those very same libertarians conservatives because they support economic liberty (which is a bit confusing since conservatives now abhor economic liberty). They’re still leftists.
I know giving ultimate hiring decision to DHS is such a great idea! Not like they'd use that to stop a certain person who owns a certain resort in FL from legally hiring employees just to fuck with said person. Not the DHS, they are upstanding moral civil servants who'd never allow personal politics to get in the way of applying the law equally.
And even if that were true. How many FL legal residents will be denied a job because some pencil pusher in Washington, DC made a mistake? Oh well, instead of being productive citizens they can just go on welfare.
How is this seriously significantly different than filling out an I-9 when you get a job?
An I9 form sits in a folder* for inspection later on the employer's premises, so its passive. DHS isn't involved unless they are doing an investigation. And I'm not an I9 form supporter to begin with; I think the government has no business interfering in employment decisions.
*or whatever means the employer utilizes to store them.
Invade Mexico
Baby steps here. We finally got Fiona to admit that the border between the US and Mexico means something.
But only in one direction.
This is CNN.
Yep. Reason already laying the groundwork for a full throated, yet undisclosed, wink and nudge endorsement of Xiden.
If it looks like Trump is going to get the nomination, I suspect Biden and whatsername will have unfortunate accidents. The Dems won't want to run the only person in the world who could lose to Trump a second time.
Is even CNN or MSNBC this stupid and insane?
DeSantis' platform would dramatically expand the size and spending of the federal government and make life far more difficult for peaceful, long-present undocumented immigrants, not just new border crossers.
There's surely a lot to disagree with here in DeSantis' border plan, including but not limited to efficacy etc. But to pull this out of the plan nearly caused me to spit my drink out all over my monitor.
I guess I'm now left wondering which dramatic expansions of the size and scope of the Federal Government we're reluctantly voting for, and which ones are literally worse than Josh Hawley.
Just ignore the 10s of billions of assistance program costs from illegal immigrants. This is the real expansion.
You mean the assistance plans illegals mostly aren't even eligible for?
Just shift the funding for these federal responsibilities from areas not granted to the federal government.
All of the education dept, HHS, CDC,NIH, etc.
Lots and lots of bucks to repurpose.
lol you guys are so scared and not even hiding that you're a bunch of democratic socialists who hollowed out reason and are now wearing it like a skinsuit
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Yep, nothing screams "Freedom!" like invading other countries and embracing piracy as official policy.
DeSantis has proven all too willing to embrace authoritarian approaches to immigration in Florida.
Being that Republicans are the Authoritarian Party, that’s no surprise.
And before the tribal monkeys (you know who you are) start shitting in their hands and throwing it at me, the Republican Authoritarian Party is marginally less-terrible than the Democratic Totalitarian Party.
Not that I support either.
I'm getting concerned that societally we have gone from an inherent dislike of authoritarian behavior to actually embracing the authoritarian behavior as long as it serves the purposes we want.
It's a bizarre shift from what used to be pretty solid underlying principles.
Just look at movies and tv in the 70s vs 80s. There was a big shift. In the 70s there was 'The Dukes of Hazzard,' 'Smokey and the Bandit,' 'Death Wish,' and a slew of others where being an American meant having no respect for authority. That was replaced with 'Miami Vice,' 'Lethal Weapon,' and 'Beverly Hills Cop' where the heroes are above the law.
Of course, the weird irony with a lot of the 80s/90s cop movies is that all of the cops went rogue to do the right thing because the establishment was stopping them.
So, you had authoritarians breaking with their authority in order to do the wrong thing for the greater good. Kind of an ends justify the means approach. Very applicable to today.
And almost if not all of these movies had “Drugs are Bad” as the theme. The evil person is selling or using drugs, but the law doesn’t allow the lawman to be judge, jury and executioner. So he goes outside the law to heroically commit murder.
Move ahead a decade or two and the evil is terrorism instead of drugs, but the plot remains the same. Stupid laws stop the lawman from inflicting justice.
And people raised on that shit are now police officers. No wonder they have no respect for the law or the Constitution.
Man, I remember when Timothy Dalton started as James Bond and they switched over to having James Bond fight drug dealers; so quintessentially 80s. No more inventive, word dominating bad guys, nope, on to fighting El Chapo.
Fast forward to Casino Royale and he's taking down terrorists.
At least these were conquer the world terrorists, more in line with the original concepts for James Bond bad guys.
Is it still Authoritarianism when it’s not aimed at US citizens? The President and our governments have a duty to protect its citizens, not protect the citizens of foreign countries at the expense of US citizens. I’ll take authoritative action to stop illegal immigration, human trafficking and drug trafficking over someone unwilling to do anything meaningful to prevent such crimes.
so enforcing the immigration law is now authoritarian?
is it a limb I am on thinking DeSatan will remain smaller-government than any (D) opponent?
Whomever wins will expand the scope and power of the federal government. The only difference is in how. In his case it looks like he'll expand federal power within the Constitution-free zone a hundred miles from the border, in which over half the population resides.
>>will expand the scope and power of the federal government
absolutely why wouldn't they? also I'm about 500 miles from the border so any Reign of Terror will fall short lol
Before I'd heard of the 100 mile Constitution-free zone, I was caught in a Border Patrol roadblock on I 95 outside Bangor. It was innocuous enough. Some lanky dude in green asked if anyone in the car was from Canada, we said no, and he let us go. But Bangor? Seriously? Look at a map. That's basically the center of the state. And they were conducting border checks.
Yeah, the occasional BP roadblock outside Spokane, WA is always amusing.
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Here's an idea: let's do border checks AT THE BORDER.
FASCIST!
The border is a state of mind.
Are you also at least 100 miles away from any airport that accepts international flights? If not, then I have some bad news for you.
If you are serious as to that being your rationale for your vote, then YOU are the one enabling pols like that to keep finding a big gummint solution. They will keep at it until such time as you say - NO - and stop voting for them.
You'll just keep voting for whoever promises to enforce mask mandates, right?
No no. It’s whoever promises to deny a bed to the unclean.
Yes. One has to be deeply delusional to think there's a limited government bone in DeSantis's body. If he got elected, he'd grow the government, accomplish little, and then alienate voters everywhere so he can hand an even more bloated and intrusive government over to the Dems. The only good news is that DeSantis has about as much chance of getting elected President as I do.
DeSantis has proven all too willing to embrace authoritarian approaches to immigration in Florida. Given the chance, he looks poised to do the very same in Washington.
Right, sending illegal immigrants to sanctuary districts is literally killing them.
Oh wait...
How dare you expect leftists to live up to their own words, that's literal fascism.
Alinsky Rule #4.
Kidnapping legal immigrants (none of the people DeSantis has shipped around are in the US illegally) to make a political point, you mean???
How were they here legally?
Another Diane/Paul strawmanning.
Remember Fiona, it is unlawful to encourage illegal immigration.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/jun/23/supreme-court-justices-give-ok-to-law-banning-enco/
My only problem with DeSantis' illegal immigration policy is the e-verify part. Taking measures to make sure people don't enter the country illegally, sure. That's the government's job, if only it would do it. But it should not be forcibly deputizing Americans to enforce the law. My car loan company doesn't check on behalf of the government to make sure I pay my traffic tickets.
Sure, and I shouldn't get checked out to see if I'm a felon if I want to buy a gun. This is little more than a requirement to make sure they're eligible to be employed in the US, little different from carding at a bar.
The point here isn’t that they’re drafting a private company into enforcement, either.
The point is that the private employer is being policed. If someone fails eVerify they don’t get reported, they don’t get arrested. They just don’t get hired. But if a company knowingly hires illegal workers, they are breaking a law. More to the point, they have an unfair advantage in the labor market over companies who actually follow the laws. By forcing them to verify all employees' eligibility it removes the plausible deniability aspect, they can’t say “I thought he was a Citizen.”
Just repurpose those 87,000 new IRS agents into employment verification agents. Then arrest both workers and employers who violate the law. Employers should not be required to act as government agencies with e-verify, but will have some incentives to voluntarily check citizenship status for workers.
My car loan company doesn’t check on behalf of the government to make sure I pay my traffic tickets.
But your car insurance company sure as hell does. But, the big difference here is that if you don't pay your tickets, that is not a crime on the part of your car loan bank. Hiring illegals is a crime on the part of the employers.
The problem is that it is impossible - long term - to prevent people from entering the country illegally without also turning the whole country into a police-state.
Requiring employers to verify *their own* compliance with the law (eg, show they did due-diligence to only hire legal workers) WILL actually stop illegal immigration...
And it will do that without our having to deport anyone - without jobs, they will stop coming.
it is impossible – long term – to prevent people from entering the country illegally without also turning the whole country into a police-state
Bullshit. Almost all countries do a much better job of it than we do.
Requiring employers to verify *their own* compliance with the law (eg, show they did due-diligence to only hire legal workers) WILL actually stop illegal immigration…
And that's exactly what E-Verify does.
And it will do that without our having to deport anyone – without jobs, they will stop coming.
Bullshit. Right now they're coming by the hundreds of thousands to work illegally. They will stop coming in such numbers when they are stopped at the border or deported when they are caught here illegally.
https://twitter.com/knrd_z/status/1673751001805869057?t=GgWTv_y75hzPZKC6mMUOjA&s=19
If you listen to him he's not conveying sadness or remorse, but the same response children have when they expect punishment for bad behavior. But he's talking to the cops; they're the ones requesting a statement. Think about it
[Link]
Think about it
I did and don't understand what point you're trying to make.
Lol
That clears it up.
The guy is ashamed/scared because he called the cops on a black guy (who threatened to stab his family) and the black guy is going to get arrested.
He has violated the #1 rule of postwar America by committing a racism. He now fears he will be held accountable for being a white supremacist.
https://twitter.com/Lead_Flinger/status/1673806511414362118?t=D-Sf4uMzxi3pkAsc2kL1AA&s=19
This is what social brainwashing to convince people that being racist is worse than being an actual murderer or pedo has done to this guy.
Breaking down because he’s afraid the black guy that was threatening his family with a knife will think he’s a racist because he called the cops.
Damn.
Remember, nobody is supposed to be above the law and all Desantis is proposing here is that immigration law be enforced.
Yet another article from a FAKE libertarian.
Progressives are constantly trying to co-opt every movement they can get their grubby little hands on.
Go Away progressives we don't care about your "Sad story of the day" and will not support your efforts to destroy America.
How's that Xiden thing going for you Fiona? Cast your vote early and often like a good Democrat.
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I wonder how strictly DeSantis will enforce his new law given the significant percentage of agricultural workers in Florida who are "illegal" immigrants (quotes because "innocent until proven guilty" is a thing 🙂 )
Immigrants are stealing jobs from Americans, right? That’s why Americans are lined up to do that work, but evil employers keep hiring illegals instead. All DeSantis is trying to do is give those jobs back to their rightful owners: Americans.
Nobody is stealing anything.
That said, if you want to stop illegal immigration you do so by prosecuting employers... Not by dicking around on the border.
He's proposing a way of proving the guilt of those who are illegal.
Once we have greatly improved border security and begin serious enforcement of immigration law, then we will have the conditions for creating an orderly and practical system for admitting temporary foreign workers.
That's fine, as long as "serious enforcement of immigration law" includes deporting the over 30 million illegal aliens, here, whose first act on our soil was to break its laws.
We'll never be able to deport all of them, but making a serious effort would have some deterrent effect.
You left off the sarc tag.
Do you know which party votes against increased seasonal work visas since it doesn't have a path to citizenship? Yours buddy.
Ahhh. The racism of the left. Only brown people should work farms.
Unless your last name is Trump, eh guv?
https://twitter.com/FrankDeScushin/status/1673760568434470912?t=p7u300WEmh5FF1ozbZGvug&s=19
Media fret over anti-immigration parties rising in Europe. One expert worries traditional parties are becoming "extreme" by copying their message.
Extreme, here, means giving voice to natives' concerns they're losing their homeland. A longtime no-no for establishment parties.
There's nothing extreme about wanting your people, the people who built the nation, to remain the majority with political and cultural control.
Extreme is vilifying that natural reaction for only one race as you conspire to change their homelands against their will.
[Link]
Idiots who claim they are ‘losing their homeland’ thanks to an 11M:330M split?
Mathematically illiterate stupidity.
You could have the entire population of Mexico enter the United States, and native-born Americans would still be the overwhelming majority (by a factor of 3).
Where do you live?
“ rising in Europe. ”
May want to hold off on throwing those rocks in your glass house there friend.
as a practical matter, desantis isn't communicating to the electorate here ... rather he is communicating to the human traffickers / coyotes
"tough-on-migrants politician"
And there's the tell.
Is he tough on migrants, or tough on ILLEGAL immigrants?
Fiona willfully conflates the two. Always. Refugees, legal immigrants, illigal immigrants... they're all just "migrants."
She's completely whored herself out to Koch on this one issue. She has no shame, nothing it so ridiculous she will not say it, as long is it is pure open borders.
The present chaos of an unsecured border and barely existent immigration enforcement makes it impossible to set up a workable system for admitting and employing foreign workers. That, of course, is deliberate. The power elite want their brown slaves.
For sound economic perspective go to https://honesteconomics.substack.com/
Fiona-bot, eager champion for the Koch Party immigration line.
No go tell uncle Charles about your latest essay, and maybe you can sit in his lap again.
Team DeSantis helping to fortify the 2024 election:
https://twitter.com/SKMorefield/status/1673750448400990209?t=Whcp_LxvFlZknjISQFjHzw&s=19
If Trump does pull off the GOP nomination and goes on to inevitably lose massively in the general, will we get an apology from any of the MAGA influencers who have spent this entire election cycle grifting and openly lying to voters for their own personal gain?
https://twitter.com/CryptidPolitics/status/1673681143885955081?t=ksV0fbvxxXM-vbFSTnglFw&s=19
There is no way on God’s green Earth that Donald Trump is leading Joe Biden in the national popular vote.
Trump +3 nationally would mean he’d win almost every swing state and maybe even some blue states. That’s just not realistic.
[Link]
Now do Biden influencers. The same people who lied to you about nearly everything for the last 5 years.
Yea, it would be nice if the DeSantis campaigners attacked Biden, but they don't.
They parrot progressive/msm talking points, cheer on the political prosecution of Trump, and constantly endorse the 2020 election as legit.
They relentlessly attack Trump VOTERS, calling them dumb cultists and such, despite the fact that alienating those people is suicidal if one's goal is to eventually win a general election.
The DeSantis campaign seems designed not to beat Trump in a primary and get DeSantis elected president over a dem, but rather to kneecap Trump, sabotage DeSantis' political future, and kill the populist movement.
The 'populist movement' is killing the GOP. It needs to die & Republicans need to go back to representing the part of America that actually has money (even if that means dumping some aspects of social conservatism - since all it does is help us lose)...
Further, DeSantis isn't running against Biden right now - rather he's running against Trump.
No, Dave, you need to die.
You're not a person, you're a tumor- and your existence is an unjustified affront to all that is good.
I'm really struggling to believe that Desantis himself could be so obtuse to how he is coming across. His public speaking is terrible regardless of how much I agree with him. Basically everything put out by his campaign seems geared towards turning away Trump voters and even those who would prefer RDS on policy grounds.
It really looks fishy for someone who had strong support to so instantly implode and have supporters who talk just like the opposition party
If they hold course, DeSantis is going to fall behind Christie or Scott in the coming months, and his political future is done after his term finishes up in 2026.
And this is a guy who was a LOCK to be the 2028 nominee regardless of the 2024 result if he simply stayed out of it.
I don't want to hang that on DeSantis himself. He's clearly surrounded by an awful team, I'm just not sure how much responsibility to hang on him yet.
But it's hard to see any other goal for the campaign than taking out both Trump and DeSantis, and the populist right.
Then it's amazing to see how unhinged his team of influencers have become. Some of these guys seemed pretty sharp up until a month or two ago when they turned into NAFO style shills. DeSantis' poll numbers have been stagnant at best, down from what they were before his announcement. But team Ron acts like they're neck and neck with Trump, like they're strategy is working, when all evidence indicates otherwise.
Worst campaign in American political history thus far.
No, they will just claim it was 'stolen again' (no matter how many Republicans win down-ballot in Biden states) because they cannot fathom why anyone wouldn't want Cheeto Jesus to be POTUS...
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Birthright citizenship is foolish and immoral. If a woman broke into your house while you were away and gave birth there, would her child have the right to live in your house forever with the same rights to it as you have, and later giving the child’s family rights to move in too? Citizen rights are a collective extension of property rights and a libertarian should respect citizens’ property rights to their own country, which they pay for, support and protect, just like any property.
Birthright citizenship has been the way-it-is ever since we were still British colonies.
We do not punish individuals for the crimes of their parents, nor do we grant immunity from US jurisdiction to the foreign-born.
The child did not illegally enter the US - they were born here with no choice in the matter. They should not be punished for the crimes/civil-infractions of their parents.
Fine. Then allow the child to be a citizen, but don't grant them any privilege to have their parents or other family join them here.
Not granting citizenship is not "punishment". Take UN diplomats. They have a baby near Turtle Bay in Manhattan. Is that baby a citizen? Of course not. Walking over the Rio Grande and having a baby drop out of your belly is no basis for a rational immigration policy.
it's unconstitutional. read the 14th amendment and pay attention and comprehend the words.
The Mexican government has made it quite clear they will not permit an invasion of their country. To even propose such a thing is totally reckless. Yes we should stop illegals from coming in but starting a war with other countries for our own failings ? It's time for Florida to wake up and remove this mini dictator before his head swells any further.
Mexico is already invading the U.S., stealing tax dollars and sending it home. The problem is not people in the U.S. wanting it to stop, and threating to stop it.
Mexico isn't invading anyone.
And remittances aren't theft...
If you are pissed about illegal immigrants working in the US, then prosecute the people who hire them.
It’s not about being “pissed off” At the immigrants, their home country, or even the people that hire them. We have a full blown, bloated, soup to nuts welfare system that’s a gimmie bag once someone crosses the border. Oh, want examples? I live in Brooklyn and see regularly illegals: 1. Buy a boatload of groceries using 1, 2, 3 or more EBT cards. 2. Fill out a form to have them shipped. I walk by the shipping canisters and see the addresses filled out to: “Mexico”. The United States of America is a nation. Not a flophouse. We can’t afford this crap anymore.
I think they said that before when we were just a second rate power. It didn't hold up well.
they will not permit an invasion of their country.
No one is suggesting asking their permission.
Who the fuck cares what the Mexican government will or won't stand for? They've already allowed an invasion of their country, they just let them keep walking north to get to ours. The Mexican government can eat my asshole.
The same Mexican government that is in the thrall of the cartels?
do you really think mexico could do anything to stop us? they're a shit hole 3rd world country. we could destroy them many times over.
If you are OK with the status quo, then you support theft, lawlessness, enriching cartels, human trafficking , rape, rampant induction of deadly drugs, homelessness, and draining taxpayers for all of it. Look into the future of that, and you might want something done about it now.
You forgot corruption of local governments.
You aren't going to change the status quo by blowing megabucks at the border.
The drugs will keep coming as long as Americans keep smoking them.
The illegal immigrants will keep coming as long as Americans keep hiring them.
Honeslty, I don't care about the 'deadly drugs' anymore - if you wanna kill yourself with fentanyl then the gene-pool just got a little more chlorine...
And it's pretty obvious that people don't really care about illegal immigration, because they are always talking about the border & never the employers.
Fiona is fine with that, she doesn't live anywhere near the border.
Immediately incarcerate all illegals in camps and give them the option to return home or perform backbreaking labor, like scrubbing toilets, weeding fields, picking apples, and mowing lawns.
Will they notice the difference?
What Gov. DeSantis is really promising is years of lawsuits and court cases. Rather than addressing the problem, he offers authoritarian and illegal solutions that appeal to a small group but have little chance of success. The only good thing is that he will likely drop all the nonsense if elected and simple do same as the preceding Presidents did.
I make thousands from home, and I’m not even legal here. You can too. Let me show you how.
You were supposed to post a link. You know what, never mind — you’re fired!
Fifteen years ago, Tancredo was the most vocal R about immigration. You could always tell the difference between hardline R's and libertarians who had a problem with illegal immigration. Hardline R's always personally demonized the migrant in racial and legal terms. 'Border' libertarians always said 'a wall won't work but if it's the only option then make sure it's a wall with plenty of gates'. It was a big issue in the 2008 primary with Ron Paul and hence of discussion among us Paulites.
The usual commenters here are not remotely libertarian. Just hardline R who get their ideas of what America should be from Vdare and Amren.
Some of you may well have been libertarian back then.
But this issue and abortion shows the problem with the 'infiltrate the R's' strategy. R's won't become more libertarian. Rather, libertarian-leaning R's will give up what they once believed and will embrace the dark side. It's why imo the only viable strategy for big L's is to target independents and nonvoters. R's have to leave their tent on their own
De Santis can say anything he likes. What he will do is what counts. I don't believe the people who are putting up the money to finance the De Santis campaign are worried about RDS doing anything but what they tell him to do. There is a genuine reason why the globalists are throwing garbage @ DJT 24\7\365 and it ain't because Trump makes mean tweets.
There is no such thing as a 'globalist'...
And Trump completely destroying the GOP as a competitive political party has a lot of people pissed off...
Ironically; Trump SAVED the GOP'S De-Regulation (LIMITED Government) premise. The only one's pissed off about it are RINO'S who act just like Democrats anyway.
By “throwing garbage” do you mean the various lawsuits he is a defendant in?
Don’t be disingenuous.
If I were to take DeSantis at his word, and not just write it off as hyperbole, I would have to assume that DeSantis is a total fucking nut job.
really, so you favor illegal immigration?
Ending birthright citizenship is NOT a "big-government action."
Yes, yes it is.
The US has had birthright citizenship - at least for whites - for as long as we existed.
The idea of citizenship being restricted to bloodlines was a foreign concept to the founders, as it did not exist in the UK at the time of independence.
The 14th Amendment merely codified this for all races - it did not create it.
To repeal or alter the 14th, would absolutely be a 'big government' action - and a mistake.
I agree; The fact that DeSantis wants to IGNORE the US Constitution just knocked his score-card down to nothing.
https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1673812620430782465?t=lMd-s5K1yEOoVruOf84akA&s=19
In Krematorsk (Ukraine) a Hotel was bombed. By the amount of military men immediately on the spot, you can surmise that it was used by the military.
-> Especially interesting is that some of the victims talk in English and have tattoos of the “US 3rd airborne Ranger Battalion”!
[Links]
He proposes "mass deportations"? I would like to see the specifics on that. Every candidate should be asked what their plan is to deport the tens of millions of illegal aliens in our country. If they have no plan, they should be asked why they don't think it is their responsibility to enforce the rule of law.
You might as well ask them 'What is your plan to fly faster than light?'
It's an impossible task. The resources/funds/manpower does not exist to remove 11 million people from this country.
The question that needs to be asked, is who will do what Mitt Romney suggested in 2012 - and go after the employers who's willingness to hire illegal immigrants is the ENTIRE cause of the problem.
No jobs? They will go back to their home countries voluntarily.
Anything else is a waste of time and money, that does not long-term actually exclude anyone from the US (because deported people come right back).
"No one before me had the political WILL to do it!" As if just willing something hard enough will make it happen. Way too many self-help books, mostly sub-titled "The Power of Magical Thinking".
This is King Canute ordering the tide to go out. This is King Trump building a wall and making Mexico pay for it.
it's not difficult to deport them. you make it miserable for the illegals to live here. prevent them from working, no drivers license, no insurance, no gov assistance, no healthcare --- you get nothing. want any of that then leave and go back where you came from. they'll self deport pretty quickly.
Why can't a libertarian rag wrap its head around this?: Importing masses of people who immediately go on soup-to-nuts welfare and give birth to kids who are a jackpot to even more handouts is BIG GOVERNMENT.
Perhaps Reason has heard of...... Milton Friedman? No? Let me remind you of his saying: You can have mass immigration. You can have a vast welfare state. You can NOT have both.
You cannot stop mass immigration with walls, or guns, or physical force. These measures have ZERO effect long-term, because everyone who gets deported eventually tries again & gets in.
You can only stop it with economic measures: Cut off the supply of jobs (by prosecuting employers) and people will have no reason to try to get in....
You cannot stop mass immigration with walls, or guns, or physical force. These measures have ZERO effect long-term, because everyone who gets deported eventually tries again & gets in.
Almost every other country in the world is proving you wrong about that. Our wide-open back door is exceptional.
Poland and Lithuania would beg to differ. Actually building pretty sealed borders on their east since 2020. Notice you are not arguing illegals, when coming here, for the most part get on the welfare wagon. You think this is libertarian? To import welfare clients by the millions?
That is NOT what Milton Friedman said. But regardless, you conservatives seem to be using it as an excuse to KEEP a vast welfare start. Why don't you fucking get rid of the welfare state?!?!? If you political will alone is sufficient to deport all undocumented human beings, why not use that political will to get rid of the welfare state (which illegal persons cannot collect legally)?
Holy Fuck, your Lord and Savior Donald K. Trump had two full years of a large party majority in both houses, and he did literally nothing to exert that political will to power to end welfare. Holy Fucking Shirtbags, Bill Clinton did more to roll back welfare than Trump!
I miss the old days where the pro-illegal crowd used to amuse us by denying that illegals could ever get on welfare. Guess the laughter finally got too loud and they stopped that line about 8 years ago. Now, rags like Reason just ignores the subject. See any mention of "welfare" or "benefits" in the article? Neither did I.
Statistically the overwhelming majority are here to work, not to get on welfare.
Which is why if you want to get 11 million illegal immigrants out of the country, you do it by making it impossible for them to find/keep a job.
We need them to do jobs here. Allowing them in temporarily to work in an orderly and beneficial manner requires a secure border and effective immigration law enforcement, as well as enforcement against employers who don't follow the rules. As long as migrants can simply walk around our procedures by the millions, it doesn't matter what our rules are.
I live in Brooklyn and see this stuff in my face everyday. So will ask you. What proportion of illegals you think are on welfare? Versus the native population? And btw, I don’t disagree that the illegals don’t want to work. They do, at least the father. Put it this way. You have a 5 person family of illegals settle in NYC. The father works at a kitchen. Pulls in $15/20 per hour. Mom stays home with the kids. There’s housing, food, transporation, health care, clothing, education, utilities. Can you do the math for us and explain how all that happens without MASSIVE WELFARE? Spoiler alert: It doesn’t. Even on 14 hour shifts/7 days a week. Why do you think the last NYC mayor created a new ID, even for illegals? He didn't even bother to hide it would better allow them to scoop up welfare.
Haha. It’s so cute that you think there’s only “11 million” in this country illegally.
Hey Dave, the 80s called…..
Probably three times that many now.
I can fix the border and it won't cost a thing, end drug prohibition.
That is a thing we should do, but it won't solve this problem.
Very little of the 11m illegal immigrant population is involved in the drug trade...
But the same criminal organizations that traffick people are also in the drug trade. And in a variety of other criminal enterprises.
The fiasco of "legal" marijuana shows that won't work. Nearly all of the trade remains in the black market in states where weed "legalization" has been tried. It would work even less well with dangerous narcotics. There will never be Pfizer Heroin and Bayer Meth on the shelf next to the aspirin at Rite-Aid.
apparently you don't know that the cartels are making way more money now moving people than drugs.
Anyone who's 'solution' to illegal immigration involves 'the border' is an unserious idiot.
Playing 'red rover' never works well for the team trying to stop the 'coming over'. It's an impossible game to win.
Anyone who does not understand that greatly improved border security is necessary to orderly and mutually beneficial guest working and immigration is an unserious idiot.
Right... I tore all the doors off my house and expected security.
Dave_A made one of the most idiotic comments I've seen in a long time.
A nation that cannot secure its borders no longer remains a nation nor can it maintain its own identity. Just as the citizens of France, Germany, Sweden or U.K. where unlimited immigration has created a host of problems not the least the amount of violence including rape, murder and gang related violence by millions of unwanted and unneeded immigrants the vast majority who will never become part of the society.
That, however, is part of the plan by the globalist WEF and company, to destroy national identity and societies based on such. It has been very successful as nations such as Sweden has an out of control rate of violence and murder, where women and young girls in Germany and France are raped and brutally murdered by savage low IQ Africans and middle eastern Muslims who will never, ever fit into any form of society.
This is getting really embarrassing, you guys.
Trump may be an exception. A blip in the body politic. A phenomena of the moment. Fine, I can accept that. He was running against the most hated politician ever.
But if DeSantos gets the nomination then it confirms that American conservatism is dead as it lacks any and all principles. The GOP will have become in all but name a Fascist Populist party, doing whatever it can to score cheap culturewar points with an increasingly irrational base.
Only topped wildly by Democrats who's entire platform is a Fascist Populist ideology and the very party that initiated the culture-war as Fascists always do.
Fiona Fiona Fiona...Government has only a couple jobs: protect our Rights and secure our borders. We are not talking immigration either. Do you know who has crossed into the US? Anyone you know? Are they peaceful or will we see a sudden power outage and hear gunfire etc. I do not care what color your skin is or even what flag you wave, stay out of my space and do not act as my friend with a smile or cry tears, I have my hand on my weapon so just don't stare at me and do not think I am not watching you. Am I paranoid? Maybe maybe not but I am not stupid like you Fiona.
Don’t say desantis! No libertarian in his / her /their right mind should vote for this dude
so who would a libertarian in his right mind vote for? you can vote for biden on the democrat ticket or on the republican ticket you can vote for desantis or trump. those are the only choices. there is no other, so enlighten us.
ok fiona, desantis is not a "tough-on-migrants politician". nice tell there exposing your leftist open borders ideology. desantis is tough on ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION -- apparently you don't know the difference. his plan is very comprehensive, detailed and would be very effective if implemented. not sure why fiona opposes a secure border, other than she actually hates this country.