Donald Trump Indicted on More Than 30 Charges in Classified Documents Case
The feds allege the former president was keeping classified documents on America's nuclear program and defense capabilities in his Mar-a-Lago resort.

Former President Donald Trump has been indicted in federal court on 37 felony charges related to hoarding boxes of classified materials at his South Florida resort.
Trump faces multiple counts of conspiracy to obstruct justice, willful retention of national defense information, and concealing documents from investigators and a federal grand jury. The indictment alleges that the classified documents included information on U.S. nuclear programs, defense and weapons capabilities, vulnerabilities, and military plans for retaliation in response to a foreign attack.
"The unauthorized disclosure of these classified documents could put at risk the national security of the United States, foreign relations, the safety of the United States military, and human sources and the continued viability of sensitive collection methods," the government alleges.
Trump and his Republican supporters in Congress say the charges are part of the corrupt weaponization of the Justice Department by Joe Biden—who also mishandled classified records—against his political rival.
Sen. Mitt Romney (R–Utah) was one of the only Republicans to defend the charges: "By all appearances, the Justice Department and special counsel have exercised due care, affording Mr. Trump the time and opportunity to avoid charges that would not generally have been afforded to others," Romney said in a press release. "Mr. Trump brought these charges himself by not only taking classified documents, but by refusing to simply return them when given numerous opportunities to do so."
While the broad strokes of Trump's, Biden's, and Mike Pence's cases of retaining classified documents are similar, Romney is correct that Trump ran head-first into the charges, even with the generous benefit of the doubt that the Justice Department gives high-ranking politicians in cases involving classified records.
As Reason's Jacob Sullum explained in January after more classified records were discovered in Biden's garage, Biden's cooperation with federal law enforcement may weigh against finding that there was criminal intent or willful mishandling:
Trump, by contrast, took thousands of government documents, including 325 marked as classified, when he left office, and he persistently resisted returning them, apparently because he considered them his personal property. That resistance included months of wrangling with the National Archives and Records Administration and incomplete compliance with a federal subpoena, which culminated in the FBI's August 8 search of Mar-a-Lago.
Unlike last week's visit to Biden's house, the Mar-a-Lago search was not consensual. It was authorized by a warrant that a magistrate judge issued after concluding that there was probable cause to believe the FBI would find evidence that Trump or his representatives had committed federal crimes. Specifically, the FBI cited statutes that make it a felony to remove or conceal government documents, retain "national defense information," and obstruct a federal investigation.
But even if the charges are ultimately a result of Trump's obstinance, it does not negate the real problems with overclassification, the general bloat of the national security apparatus, and the abuse of the Espionage Act.
Sen. Rand Paul (R–Ky.) recently noted in an op-ed that, in 2017, over 4 million Americans with security clearances classified nearly 50 million documents.
Trump's charges include violating the Espionage Act of 1917, a World War I-era law that has been used to prosecute whistleblowers who leak classified documents to the press.
The Obama administration prosecuted a record number of leakers under the Espionage Act, and the Trump administration used it as well. The Trump administration prosecuted whistleblowers Reality Winner and Daniel Hale for leaking classified documents to the press. In Hale's case, he leaked documents showing how the U.S. was killing civilians overseas with drone strikes.
Paul proposed scrapping the law altogether last year. "The espionage act was abused from the beginning to jail dissenters of WWI. It is long past time to repeal this egregious affront to the 1st Amendment," he wrote.
It was an offer that Congress, including many of the Republicans now warning of dark days for American democracy, ignored.
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Trump loses two lawyers just hours after being indicted.
Not sure if this is a delay stunt or something legit concerning.
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-loses-two-lawyers-just-160730843.html
I guess the FBI can release their families now. Hopefully those two lawyers learned a valuable lesson.
What lesson is that? Not to oppose the Gestapo?
I still trying to figure out how the government can arrange for Trump to be tried without a jury. I suppose make it clear to him that if he insists on a jury trial and is found guilty, that he will never again see sunlight not filtered through bars. [They wouldn’t threaten him with that, would they?]
If there was ever – EVER – a case that cries out for jury nullification, it is the super-selective prosecution of Pres. Trump while the decision was that “no reasonable prosecutor” would bring charges against Sec. State and Bathroom Server Mistress Hillary Clinton.
If you are of the age (I’ve aged out of jury eligibility and can therefore speak freely) to be selected for a star-chamber trial in our multiple-tier justus [sic] system, please:
(1) inform yourself about jury nullification, and
(2) keep your mouth shut about it your knowledge of it, and also
(3) be prepared to lie like a rug about it during voir dire as you can bet the prosecutor will be vetting potential jurors carefully to “challenge for cause” all who do not pass as “hyper-compliant”.
(4) Then continue to keep your mouth shut and your keyboard silent about it because a vengeful prosecutor is likely to reach out and try to touch YOU, as one did with a non-compliant juror in Colorado some years ago. As a juror, you do not have to discuss your vote, though you may be “polled” in court. And you do not have justify how you voted.
Because they indicted one of his lawyers. Kind of a big deal no? Threaten anyone who represents him.
It's only wrong if it's done to them.
Which Trump lawyer was indicted?
It was his aide:
Walt Nauta, had also been indicted by federal prosecutors.
Lawyers started fleeing after he was indicted as well.
I'm confused. Why did you say it was trumps lawyer if you knew it was an aide?
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Because I was going off memory and corrected when I relooked it up. Confused it with the witness tampering claims of one of the witness lawyers.
They’ve been threatening his lawyers and other who work for him for years now.
The democrats indicted the leading opposition candidate again?
Isn't that something they do in places like Russia, China and Cuba?
Since a major chunk of the indictment involves his discussion with his lawyers, I would say their motives are kinda obvious....
To circumvent the law and Constitution to obtain political convictions?
Since Trump was funneling lies through his attorneys, it's not surprising at all.
Since TDS addled shits lie about everything, they can be safely ignored.
Fuck off and die, asshole
The democrats are now arresting attorneys who dare to represent the leading opposition candidate.
Do you study hard to be this stupid?
Trump always stiffs his lawyers on payment. That's probably the main reason they left. That and not wanting to be on the losing side of a case.
TDS addled shits lie about everything, they can be safely ignored.
Fuck off and die, asshole
Do worry. He can just use the lawyers in his election fraud cases. True, he'll probably get the death penalty if they show their usual competence, even if it's not a capital crime, but at least they're cheap.
TDS addled shits lie about everything, they can be safely ignored.
Fuck off and die, asshole
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To "Reason" scribblers: Easy on guzzling the champagne. Every dog has its day.
When all the people that are collaborating with the Marxist Party are eventually about to receive justice, I wonder if any realization of just how badly they fucked up will dawn on them.
Hua ha ha ha ha ha! Hi faceless Ku-Klux silent majority whiner! Try the butthurt salve.
Hillary is getting indicted for her bathroom server next, right?
"No *reasonable* prosecutor would bring charges!"
The democrats will go door to door rounding up the political opposition.
Unfortunately the average American was educated in a public school and doesn’t understand what is happening or the parallels with history.
Those words were written in the last days of the Obama DoJ in relation to the presumptive Democrat Presidential nominee. In that political environment, they were undoubtedly true, especially in light of other things that have now been more or less proven to have been happening within those agencies.
They're probably equally true under the current administration, which seems to possibly be running more or less the same playbook in terms of politically motivated activities intended to affect the electoral process. Federal Prosecutors "serve at the pleasure of the President" and can be dismissed at any time with or without a reason
Proving the "espionage" charges against trump are probably going to be a big ask, especially if the jury is empaneled in Florida instead of DC or NYC. Obstruction charges seem to be more clear-cut (as they would have been against HRC who clearly destroyed evidence by wiping the server and destroying the drives before any potential investigation could get to it), but as Mark Geragos says on his podcasts, criminal trials are often decided in jury selection.
Haw haw haw... another one. Cry me a river, girl-bullying Ayatollah!
Stupid Democrats. All they've done is increase support for Trump, and all they've done to stonewall Hunter's and the Bidens' corruption investigations is prove how they've weaponized the Deep State.
If they had even half the brains of most politicians, they'd do everything possible to just ignore Trump. Let him flail against nothing.
Man they are stupid, even for politicians.
Stupid Democrats. All they’ve done is increase support for Trump
I think it's a smart approach for them. Increase support among republicans so he cinches the R nomination and loses the general. I'm just not convinced they're smart enough to realize it though.
That was the strategy in 2016: do everything possible to shore up Trump in the primaries, because there's no way the country would vote for a reality tv clown over the most qualified vagina in American history! And oh, how the Democrats chuckled and gloated when Trump was nominated, blissfully unaware that their own candidate was apparently the only person in America capable of losing an election to Donald Trump.
Hillary is hated even more than Trump is hated.
So is Biden according to a large number of polls.
We’re pretty much past elections, and the rule of law. And if there is no more rule of law, then why tolerate the existence of the democrat Marxist party at all?
"...why tolerate the existence..."
Well, given that the law won't do anything about the vermin that only leaves armed uprising. Are you willing to make the sacrifices our founders made to make the world a better place, knowing that the odds of success are historically slim?
Have fun storming the castle, boys! I love our country and Constitution, but I'm too old for that silliness.
"Hillary is hated even more than Trump is hated."
Surprise, surprise, surprise! EdG posted something which isn't a lie!
Are you referring to Hil-LIAR-y as the "most qualified vagina in history"? If so...I take issue. She is the most qualified walking yeast infection in history.... just looking at that piece of garbage or hearing her cackling (like our current very well qualified idiot V.P.) voice triggers my vomit reflex. So, when I need a psychological boost, I replay the 2016 election coverage (starting at about the 9 p.m. point) and enter the gates of heaven....especially the coverage of all the fairy talking head lefty morons melting down....it is so awesome. And I have a feeling that '24 is going to be the same! As far as any fallout from the rigged indictments...those cases will definitely wind up in the SCOTUS. Which means, once again, all of these lefty TDS morons are totally wasting everybody's time.
Hahahahaha. Piss on women voters some more, you mindless mohammedans!
So tired.
Your missing the effect of scaring off future trumps. That is their real goal.
And a worthy one.
Better to exterminate Marxist rodents.
EdG, TDS-addled shit:
“And a worthy one”
Fuck off and die asshole.
You don't ignore criminals. What will happen is not that Trump support will increase but that his dollar intake will go up. I hope that you will continue to send him all the money you can. Why should he pay for lawyers when the little people can pay instead.
You aren’t hiding your fear very well.
I time permits could you update me on what it is, I fear? I'm not really feeling it, the fear, and telling me might help.
We don't have to know your specific fears to know you are expressing them. You reek of it.
Ya, looks like you got nothing, I kind of thought that was the case.
Exactly. WIthin a 1/2 hour of the indictment being announced I received yet another email from Trump grubbing for $$$. It mentions the indictment. Since then maybe another 5 or 6 emails. They are nasty and full of BS. Anything though to grift a buck.
Yeah, that happened to me too, except in my fantasy, I got to keep my doctor, Biden was ambulatory, and Michelle Obama was a woman.
And HRC was snot the most hated person in the world (except for the steaming pile of TDS-addled Slickrick)
Why should your kind continue to exist when you collaborate and propagandize for these Marxists? Mike, it’s going to get real ducking bad for you. I only wish that I could hear you beg and plead for your life when your crimes catch up with you.
It doesn’t usually end well for traitors.
Um, has anyone here actually looked at what the looters spent buying votes in 2020? Wikipleadia censores it right out, but the 2016 figures are there for anyone to see. Libertarians get the most votes per dollar donated, as usual.
They’ve also really pushed events forward much closer to what’s coming. I truly hope the leftists suffer for everything they’ve done. I will certainly not look upon them with a shred of mercy.
Might not be stupid. The liberal media has recognized if they pump the shit out of stories involving his legal woes, his popularity goes up. I think they want him to win the nomination. Imagine Biden on a debate stage with someone in full command of the facts. He'll get destroyed. Trump might be their best shot to keep the presidency.
Such an obedient narrative peddler here
There on the Orange Harangoutan's forehead is the mark of The Beast, bigger'n Black Satan in the God's Own Prohibitionist soap opera!
This is a good clue that you're trapped in an information bubble, assuming you want to maintain some connection to reality.
Will the indictment feed the conspiracy-minded, overweight white men past their prime, in miserable marriages and alienated from their children, huffing on FoxNews and moving on to even more fake news when FoxNews doesn't deliver the fix, masturbating to teenage femboy porn while shouting about LGBT "grooming" of kids, handing money over to Trump's various shell games and money-laundering schemes, Reason-commenting part of Trump's base of support? Oh, for sure. You can see them puffing up online with violent fantasies of an imminent civil war, where somehow they'll all be the generals but not the cannon fodder, groping the guns they've collected over the years like they're the adequate penises they've never had.
But does this increase support among voters? No. Low-information voters see news of multiple indictments and think, "Where's smoke, there's fire." Because, of course, that's right. This kind of development sways independents and more moderate Republicans (Democrats don't need to be swayed). You can see that in the polling you're carefully ignoring because it's not being spoonfed to you by your approved propagandists.
But you know, keep doing you. Fucking ignorant cunts.
"But you know, keep doing you. Fucking ignorant cunts."
That mirror is tough sledding, isn't it, TDS-addled steaming pile of lefty shit?
So few people don't have a fully formed opinion about trump already, that low-info (MSM-viewing) voters vs high-info voters won't be the dividing line.
The ones who hate trump are creaming their undergarments and thinking "we've got him dead-to-rights" for the 20th time since 2016; maybe this time they actually do, but if the court that handles this case is in FL instead of DC or NYC there's a chance he'll get a fair or friendly jury and maybe only the most minor counts will ultimately stick (espionage act charges seem like they could be hard to prove if they hinge on intent).
The ones who back trump, will see this indictment as one more instance of a weaponized "deep state" fabricating whatever they think they need to in order to take down a guy they've been chasing since he picked up the "birther" baton after Hillary's people created and then dropped it. The fact that Denham's report corroborates a couple of DoJ IG reviews to support the conclusion that the "russian collusion" concept that led to everything from FISA wiretaps on campaign staff to "Crossfire Hurricane" to three years of impeachment obsession by half the Dems in Congress and the Mueller investigation now gives them an easily credible basis for seeing the whole exercise as politically motivated.
Info levels won't enter into it, just like every other "big deal" headline item the people who have picked a side will see this as just another data point to prove their existing confirmation biases.
As someone who's long said that I'd be ashamed to have to claim allegience with either the GOP or the Dems, and who never thought that trump was fit to even be the nominee in 2016 and for the most part see his administration's policy results to be a minor deviation from the trendline that the previous 16 years of government had put the country on, I don't know that I can say this development either fits or disputes that take yet; there's no doubt that some classified info was mishandled, but the precedent that such offenses don't get prosecuted was hard set when trump chose not to "lock her up" for violations which in reality put sensitive info in far more danger (not to mention the violations by Pence and Biden which we didn't know about at the time). I still don't think trump is fit for the job, and if he's nominated I'll vote for someone other than him for a third consecutive cycle but I'd have done the same without this indictment. I don't know how any other unaffiliated people out there might be coming down on the issue though.
It does seem to me that when the history is written about this period, an impartial accounting would have a hard time ignoring the multiple ways in which the Dems engaged in more or less exactly the kind of "third world" and "anti-democratic" behaviors which so many of them claimed trump was going to do in order to somehow make himself "Dictator for life". If trump were actually the tyrant those on the "hater" side of TDS used to accuse him of, the Covd "emergency" would still be ongoing, and we'd be waiting for it to end before the "postponed" 2020 Elections could be held "safely"
Trump dead-enders are the stupidest people on the planet, Exhibit #398
I’m voting for the guy who has the most arrests and indictments. Because that means he has actually fought for something.
LOL
#GoodLuckRetakingGeorgiaWithThatApproach
Worse that the OBL crap --at least then we could all laugh at your leftist bullshit, now we're supposed to take you seriously.
“We need a candidate who will reform Washington.”
*covers face with white makeup*
“We can’t back Trump again, because the deep state stopped him last time and will do all in their power to stop him again.”
*applies bright, colorful makeup around mouth and eyes*
“Therefore we need a fighter candidate who will drain the swamp, but also someone whom the deep state won’t pull out all the stops to steal it from.”
*puts on rainbow wig*
“Ron DeSantis is that guy. Not only is he more MAGA than Trump and feared by the deep state more, he would also be allowed to win – so he can then defeat the deep state and drain the swamp!”
*puts on giant red clown nose*
Okay, what the fuck, Sandra. You let Shrike influence you and now you're posting cheapos. Too much staring into the abyss I guess.
Seriously “Accusation implies guilt”. What the fuck is that about?
I push back on Buttplug's #DefendBidenAtAllCosts garbage harder than anyone here.
But I almost feel sorry for people so emotionally invested in Trump that they're unable to appreciate the comedy in a manifestly ludicrous public figure like Laura Loomer.
BTW do you believe the story about Trump planning to hire LL for an official campaign role - until his entourage leaked it to some MSM journo to get him to back off? I don't know about that one. Trump is an absolutely pathetic buffoon but that sounds too on-the-nose.
Are you willing to applaud a two tiered justice system because you think the target is a clown? The only people who bring up Looper here are you and shrike btw.
I’ve never cared about Trump one way or the other. But he’s the only one that has really stood up to the Marxist democrat machine. Which could have been their salvation. As the morons don’t realize that all of this will lead to their destruction.
It is very clear that this country’s only salvation is the destruction of the democrat party, with no mercy for any of them that resist. We are quite obviously beyond elections or courts, with more and more Americans waking up to that fact every day. If you’re still too deluded to grasp that, then I suggest you do the smart thing and crawl under a rock and hide when things get real. Because they’re about to.
Deejay, copypaste the usual reams of Trumpanzee shrieks, anguish, handwringing and backflips at this heresy!
Are the "#Resistance" side any less emotionally invested in the man?
Making every choice based on what you think would most bother, or oppose any one person means granting that person just as much power over yourself as blind obedience would. Since most of the votes trump got were actually votes "against HIllary" or "against Biden", and even the "MAGA Hat" crowd largely saw him as some kind of "wrecking ball" on a mission to disrupt the establishment for good or for bad, I'd bet that in reality those who hate trump have given him far more power over themselves than even the "dead enders".
I happen to exist in something of a social "bubble" that's almost exclusively far-left. As much as I heard about trump supposedly having millions of people eagerly awaiting his every instruction, and that he literally told everyone in the country to "drink bleach" at one point, I know far more people who chose to live like shut-ins for two years and wash down the bags, packaging, and contents of their home-delivered groceries with bleach (maybe ultimately even taking in some small residual amounts into their lungs or stomachs in the process) because trump also said to "not panic" over the virus than there were reported cases of anyone actually deliberately injecting/ingesting any kind of disinfectant (last I heard, the latter total is holding at zero).
To her credit, Sandy is the only one of you Peanuts who demonstrates a goal of defeating Biden instead of steadfast loyalty to a cartoonish GOP has-been who lucked up in 2016.
"demonstrates a goal of defeating Biden"
A goal I'm admittedly not passionate enough about to bother voting. Already decided to stay home in 2024 no matter who the candidates are.
"A goal I’m admittedly not passionate enough about to bother voting."
Had the best POTUS in the last hundred years, replaced by a truly horrible alternative, who, yes, demands the right to tell you how to cook your dinner, and steaming piles of lefty shit can't be bothered.
Fuck off and die, shit-pile.
Replacing one obvious regime puppet with another is a masturbatory exercise, Shrike. That's why I'd rather a lefty nut like RFK Jr. win than an establishment man like Nikki Haley.
It will be wonderful when all of this comes back you, you fucking Marxist pedophile. It’s just a question of whether you meet your end because you’re a child molester, or you meet your end because you’re a traitor. In any event, I can only hope it’s slow and agonizing.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit.
Now he's lying about other TDS-addled lying piles of lefty shit.
It's that horribly misplaced mindset that the elected person "needs to fight" without consideration for whether that person is a complete fucking moron.
We've noticed that about you, complete moron.
"Trump dead-enders are the stupidest people on the planet,.."
Beaten only by those TDS-addled steaming piles of shit like this TDS-addled steaming pile of shit.
Yeah, Sandra, you keep right on rooting for the swamp dwellers; scumbags deserve each other.
Either way enjoy your four more years of Joe Biden. I'm sure he'll generate 100 million votes this time.
"By all appearances, the Justice Department and special counsel have exercised due care, affording Mr. Trump the time and opportunity to avoid charges that would not generally have been afforded to others," Romney said in a press release.
Emphasis added. "Now, I'm going to look out that window for one minute, and trust that you're still here when I turn around."
Reason really ought to hire smarter writers.
"Biden's cooperation with federal law enforcement may weigh against finding that there was criminal intent or willful mishandling."
First, that statute relevant to handling of classified docs doesn't require willful mishandling. Second, cooperation with investigators subsequent to the commission of a crime doesn't negate the initial criminal conduct.
I don't know who's telling you guys this nonsense, but you ought to hire a full-time legal expert to break these things down for you. If you have to fire Matt Welch or Elizabeth Abortion Brown to make room on the payroll to do so, it will be money well spent.
The new york times and leftist Twitter tells them that.
Also, everyone takes it on faith that Biden 'cooperated with investigators' and 'returned everything when it was asked for'. How do they know he returned everything? The National Archives apparently didn't know or care what he had in the first place. They just made a big show out of returning the documents to paint a false contrast between Biden and Trump.
He also waited until AFTER THE MIDTERMS to even mention the files.
Also, everyone takes it on faith that Biden ‘cooperated with investigators’
I think it safe to assume the investigators and Biden "cooperated."
Umm, cooperation is what a normal person would do. So, why the scare quotes?
“They just made a big show out of returning the documents to paint a false contrast between Biden and Trump.”
Or, Biden did in fact cooperate and return all documents he had. Think about it, even if Biden is the most scheming scum around it benefits him tremendously to cooperate and return all the documents, creating a true contrast with Trump.
“The feds allege the former president was keeping classified documents on America's nuclear program and defense capabilities in his Mar-a-Lago resort.”
And the Feds will provide them, as soon as the ink is dry.
They did the raid and took all this stuff out of Mar A Lago, but never allowed Trump's lawyer to see what was done or to sign off on what was taken.
Thus we are expected to just take the FIB's word that they were honest?
They've lost any trust anyone should have in them.
Everything taken from or viewed at Mar A Lago should be thrown out as fruit of the poisonous tree.
Do Trump's lawyers have the proper security clearance? Trump clearly didn't.
Kill your self.
That’s the excuse we’re gonna go with?
Jesus loves Orange Hitler. See Hitler painting Ginger Madonna with Baby Jesus, 1913. That excuses all. (http://bit.ly/3DZrEa3)
This is a day of national disgrace, dishonor, and shame for America.
In case anyone forgot:
C.J. CIARAMELLA
Criminal Justice Reporter
Who do you plan to vote for this year? Joe Biden. The nationalists said the libertarian-conservative consensus is dead, and I take them at their word. Also, Stephen Miller is a white nationalist.
https://reason.com/2020/10/12/how-will-reason-staffers-vote-in-2020/
https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1667246455931785227?t=rz-Wv04DsawsALNALMoDtA&s=19
A California bill AB957 was just amended to add "a parent's affirmation of the child's gender identity" as part of the "health, safety, and welfare of the child" in the state's Family Code.
If parents disapprove of their child's gender transition, and say a teacher or lgbt activist reports them, a court would now have broad authority to take him or her away from them.
They can also be charged with child abuse if they don't agree to call their son a daughter.
[Link]
Time for anyone who loves their kids to get out.
“Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues.”
They'll push this nationwide and incorporate it into interpretation of civil rights law.
Legalities are merely a weapon.
We already know that Ketanji "I'm not a biologist" is definitely onboard with this
But lying Mike JUST TOLD US this wasn't happening!
What isn’t happening? (I have Nardz muted.)
Finally! Someone mutes the ordure-flinging, potty-mouthed Trumpanzees. Make Reason Libertarian Again!
...
It seems that there is a dearth of papers concerning Crossfire Hurricane. Funny, that...
How the hell did you come up with that conclusion?
Because they list the individual documents in the indictment and it is clear that they cannot all be about Crossfire Hurricane
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/trump-indictment-document/967835b8a14a6b03/full.pdf
See p28 et seq
So you two were stupid enough to think that I wouldn't have checked, and also ignorant enough not to look for yourself, when you'd have been better off STFUing
They don’t actually care about the truth do the matter. They care about coming up with any possible story that might win an argument.
Note to foreign readers: "they" refers to both factions of The Looter Kleptocracy. The girl-bullying Jesus-mohammedans come here to screech loudest in atonement because their girl-bullying fanaticism cost the fascist wing the election.
Further, a dearth of evidence regarding the presence of anything but air between SRG's ears.
Eat shit and die.
https://twitter.com/CCrowley100/status/1667248134026670082?t=3M80x8AmyyqvnuAneVWVgg&s=19
This is a naked power grab, pure and simple.
The use of glaringly ham-fisted lawfare, employed to achieve a desired political outcome.
The goal is not justice in any legal sense, but the removal of Trump from being a viable political candidate.
I'm not surprised by the overt political nature of this prosecution, because liberal-democratic America is now a Banana Republic.
What's most disheartening is that this indictment is so poorly constructed that it borders on the absurd.
Our elite overlords are apparently so incompetent that they are incapable of forming even a basic, cogent legal argument.
[Link]
Jack Smith lies in his first press conference.
Violations of those laws put our country at risk. Adherence to the rule of law is a bedrock principle of the Department of Justice, and our nation’s commitment to the rule of law sets an example for the world. We have one set of laws in this country and they apply to everyone.
He said this hours after Hillary started selling her emails hat again. Hillary who removed markings and sent up to TS information on an unsecured server, deleted evidence under subpoena, destroyed evidence such as phones, etc.
Jack Smith is going the Mueller hiring Weizmann route (9-0 prosecutorial abuse against Arthur Anderson) and hiring another prosecutor who had to quit her job as a prosecutor over abuses.
https://www.theledger.com/story/news/2009/03/27/prosecutors-reassigned-after-secret-taping/26003384007/
Trumps lawyer Patel says the following.
“The lead prosecutor Karen Gilbert, who is likely to be the trial attorney in the Southern District of Florida, in 2009 was so reprimanded in a narcotics trafficking case that she had to retire from her position,” Patel said in a Fox News interview on Friday.
.
“Years later, she was promoted upwards at the DOJ,” he said. “She is the Weissmann to Jack Smith and she has been pulling the reins on this investigation,” he said, in reference to Andrew Weissmann, who was the aggressive deputy to former Special Counsel Robert Mueller.
For being about the rule of law they keep finding corrupt prosecutors.
I am pretty sure Patel is not Trump's lawyer. Is he even a lawyer? I think his credibility is weak.
According to about a thousand articles dating from 2022, Patel, an attorney, is an advisor to Trump.
Keep in mind that Slickrick is a TDS-addled lying pile of shit; it will help you in engaging whatever it is.
I linked to the story of the DoJ lawyer being removed. Are you this fucking stupid? You can click the 2009 article dumdum.
"...Are you this fucking stupid?..."
Keep in mind that Slickrick is a TDS-addled lying pile of shit; it will help you in engaging whatever it is.
Jack Smith is accused of bribing a lawyer of a witness during his investigation.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/08/lawyer-trump-valet-nauta-mar-a-lago-classified-documents-misconduct-allegation
Now what about Joe...
The Justice Department, through a specially appointed task force, investigated Huang as a possible “agent of influence” for China. In 1999, Huang pleaded guilty to a felony violation of campaign finance laws for arranging illegal foreign donations. Even though the felony charge carries a maximum penalty of five years in prison, he was sentenced to one year of probation and agreed to cooperate with prosecutors in their investigation of several co-conspirators.
.
In January 2017, as Biden moved out of the White House, Chung helped pack 13 boxes with files from his office cabinets and store them at a transition office nearby, according to a partial transcript of Chung’s recent deposition taken behind closed doors at the Capitol. Around July 2017, Chung reloaded the boxes in her car and moved them to a private office that she leased in the Chinatown neighborhood of Washington, before they ended up early the next year at the China-funded Penn Biden Center in D.C., according to the transcript.
.
The boxes turned out to contain dozens of highly classified documents, including ones so secret they could only be viewed in a Sensitive Compartment Information Facility, or SCIF. Yet they were found last year in an unlocked storage room at the center that required no key to access. (The White House initially claimed, falsely, they were stored in a “locked closet.”) Prosecutors are investigating the chain of custody of those loosely stored intelligence papers to determine whether any were copied or passed through foreign hands.
Sounds safe.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/key-player-biden-documents-removal-was-caught-bill-clinton-era-chinagate-scandal-sperry
Take him seriously like a plate of arepas
For sound economic perspective go to https://honesteconomics.substack.com/
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1667250073426616321?t=zr7gUFpGqiCo_n9-6y2MgA&s=19
So they charge the bodyman as well because he gives a mumbling answer to an FBI agent asking if he knows anything that would "make the intelligence community feel better." That's the evidence the bodyman engaged in a conspiracy with Trump. Un-freakin-believable
Another classic "voluntary interview" with the FBI, the kind where they just casually swing by and ask for some help. Bodyman happy to oblige. Ends up charged with "conspiracy to obstruct justice" because he didn't think to have a team of lawyers prepare his answers in advance
[Links]
Never talk to the police. Ever.
Especially the FBI.
"While the broad strokes of Trump's, Biden's, and Mike Pence's cases of retaining classified documents are similar"
This ... isn't even close to true. Why say it?
To justify Trump's espionage.
Don't forget he used an unsecured mobile phone the entire time he was in the White House. Publlished media reports were that both Russia and Israel were able to listen in on every conversation. In the case of Russia that might have been deliberate.
In the case of Hillary's server, the information was more secure there. The State Department server's contents ended up on Wikileaks, remember?
Ok, fuck face.
Between gargling Biden's balls, sniffing Hillary's asshole, and sucking the dick of any statist who demands it, I find remarkable you had time enough to come up with, let alone commit to writing, so galactically stupid and dishonest a fiction. More remarkable still is that, despite this shame, you selfishly choose to remain among the living.
Holy shit, do you actually believe this?
It’s going to be so awesome when people like you live in mortal fear when the revolution that you will cause comes to fruition. There should be no mercy for you or your kind.
"To justify Trump’s espionage..."
To provide fodder for TDS-addled lying piles of shit like this.
The State Department server’s contents ended up on Wikileaks, remember?
Are you sure about that? There were some Hillary-related State Department documents that Wikileaks obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, and there were leaked documents from the Democratic National Committee.
Indeed the wikileaks were most informative, especially of Dem involvement in economy-wrecking asset-forfeiture looting and exportation of shoot-first prohibitionism just like the screed Republicans dish out. Social pressure and loot-sharing is what gets suckers to vote for either half of The Looter Kleptocracy.
How is it not true? No hand wavey answers please.
Sadly, this outcome was not unexpected. The former President pushes limits and push them until something happens. Trump has had too many enablers through his one term Presidency and some continue to make excuses for him. After the first impeachment we heard that he is not an experienced politician and he did not know his actions were wrong, but he will learn. After the election we heard that he needs time to accept the election results and then the January 6th insurrection happened. Should we be surprised that took document he was not entitled to take and then refused to give them back. Nothing will change for the former President until Republican apply some tough love to the guy.
Senator Romeny, Gov. Hutchison has spoken out and are doing their party a service. Other have tried to cover their ass. Other in the former President's camp have followed his lead and are looking to make a buck from the indictments.
Two term presidency you lying fuck.
His ego got too big for his own envelope pushing and he looks to be about to pay the price.
“His ego got too big for his own envelope pushing..”
It’s a shame your brain isn’t larger than your average turd.
You’re a drone, and a useful idiot.
It is the Hitler regime over again. The Orange nazi LOST the popular vote but squeaked past the Electoral College with girl-bullying mystical hayseeds. The next election the turd lost BOTH vote counts, and one outta three is pisspoor. Long Dong and Mutterkreuz mom were the best thing that ever happened to entrenched straddling Dems.
https://twitter.com/catturd2/status/1667232533660966925?t=ENL4Es4P2MWlGXyK6RQ-Wg&s=19
If you’re a political opponent, Biden’s DOJ is coming for you.
If you’re a Christian, Biden’s DOJ is coming for you.
If you’re a Conservative, Biden’s DOJ is coming for you.
If you’re a Trump supporter, Biden’s DOJ is coming for you.
If you speak out against the teachers union, Biden’s DOJ is coming for you.
If you criticize them on social media, Biden’s DOJ is coming for you.
Fuck it, I’m old.
https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1667185160809267200?t=bKoEdsgsWiFKa4MwPiwDtA&s=19
They arrest Christians for praying outside abortion mills.
They convict grannies for waving flags in the Capitol.
They shut down your churches and destroy your businesses while they riot in the streets and burn your cities to the ground.
They gift weapons to terrorists and then try to ban you from defending yourself.
They start pointless wars and kill millions while accusing you of violence.
They assassinate presidents and run coups against the ones they can’t kill and then smear you as anti-democratic.
They rig elections and weaponize viruses and then censor you for noticing.
They cover up their own crimes and then they indict, arrest, and convict the people you elected for daring to challenge them.
The country you once loved and fought for — the country whose ideals you were willing to give your life for — that country is dead. And the people in charge today are responsible for its murder.
The only question is what are you going to do about it?
Things I would rather not specify on a public forum.
What load of whiny shit.
We've noticed that about you, TDS-addled asshole.
Our Founders did not expect our Republic to last more than 50 years. We had a good run. Now a former President stands indicted of "crimes" he was Constitutionally incapable of committing. I had hoped our nation would outlast me, but sadly I'm going to get to witness it's pathetic ending.
If we have a fair and unbiased justice system then we should be expecting indictments against Joe Biden. At least Trump was President immediately prior so there is some sort of an argument for having access, but Joe Biden was only Vice President with no ability to declassify.
I sure than instead we have an unfair and biased justice system where favors and penalties are doled out according to loyalties to the party in power.
Don't misunderstand this a defense of Trump, but rather advocating that politicians be held to account. Far too often they are not. Trump is no worse that the entire lot of them. He is just the boogeyman that the corporate media and Democrats pretend to be the root of all evil.
Hillary Clinton should have been indicted for the Email Server scandal with classified document handling as well as Joe Biden should be indicted as aggressively as Trump is. Of course Hillary was not charged and it is doubtful that Joe Biden will be either.
The Vice President has the same declassification authority as POTUS. Read the EO.
Some of the classified documents and "surrounding materials" dated from Biden's tenure in the U.S. Senate, where he represented Delaware from 1973 to 2009, according to his lawyer, Bob Bauer.
link
Biden was a senator, fuckstick. If you took ten minutes away from fingering your dog's asshole to do a little research, you'd probably know that. Of course, bigoted ideologues like you are too dishonest to care about facts or the consequences of ignoring them.
What about senators?
Executive power can’t be granted through executive order. That is entirely unconstitutional. Case closed.
No they don't retard.
"The Vice President has the same declassification authority as POTUS. Read the EO."
Are TDS-addled piles of shit required to lie when the post here?
Best tweet about the indictment so far: "I assumed Trump wasn't a complete fucking idiot every minute of every day. I stand corrected."
Best reply to this shitbag:
I assumed IS was not the most derange TDS sufferer until he proved me wrong every day.
Shame on me, and please fuck off and die.
This is purely political in nature, yet there are people cheering it on. Not a new observation by any means, but it's scary just how many people are okay with naked power grabs so long as it suits their political leanings/agenda.
I think a lot of people are shocked that Trump was allowed to be President. He was duly elected and then divided the country and did little else. The 2020 election was very much a effort to correct the mistake in 2016.
If I am going to worry about political things it will be gerrymandering, culture wars, or voter suppression.
Isn't the the weaponization of the federal government against political and ideological opponents a meaningful political problem to worry about?
Yes, and isn't that happening in gerrymandering, culture wars and voter suppression. Weaponizing your political power to block political opponents through gerrymandering, weaponizing political power to demonize political minorities or to suppress their vote.
The difference is that these are real. The former President legal problems are not political they are all of his own making.
Gerrymandering has always been a problem. I would love for that to go away, but neither party will actually allow it.
Voter suppression is basically a false narrative created by you all on the left.
And what’s happened to Trump, especially concerning Russiagate, has been probably one of the biggest abuses of government power for political gain that has ever occured in this country. But since it was directed against someone you don’t like, you simply claim it’s fake and move on.
It’s honestly depressing how so many allow disdain for Trump to justify horrendous government behavior. But, tribalism means sacrificing all principles for team.
"This is purely political in nature, yet there are people cheering it on..."
Dunno about "most", but we have a pile of shit-for-brains like asshole here.
"Isn’t the the weaponization of the federal government against political and ideological opponents a meaningful political problem to worry about?"
YOU don't seem to mind at all.
No, democrats divided the country. Obama was a huge instigator. To you, ‘division’ means anyone disagreeing with the democrat narrative. Your narrative is bullshit, as is everything you believe in. I don’t want to unite with traitor trash, and I will not support your evil.
Ultimately, your choice will be to abandon your bullshit beliefs, or suffer the consequences of refusing to do so. As Marxism has no right to exist.
"Allowed to be"
Holy fuck what an authoritarian moron you are.
Translation: I was suckered by Orange Hitler and my girl-bullying vote went down the toilet. WAAH!
I expected to see a MAGAt meltdown in the comment section, and I'm not disappointed.
Yes, but it is the same old group. If Trump walked into their house and shot their dog, they would still vote for him.
A drone like you believes that. Up you are not an individual, just a drone.
Or more reasonably, maybe it's not about Trump, but this:
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
If you don't see the problem, you may be the problem.
"due process of law"
Isn't that what is happening? The former President will get a trial, he will very likely be represented by lawyers much better than most people in this country can afford.
What's happening is appallingly similar to what autocrat Volodymyr Zelenskyy did to Petro Poroshenko, and anathema to the spirit of the Fourteenth Amendment. What part of equal protection do you not understand? And did you actually believe anyone with more than a room temperature IQ wouldn't recognize your straw man argument defending due process of law? You're being willfully obtuse.
Will that be Mod’s excuse when he is ultimately put on trial for treason? Assuming he isn’t put down in the street like the Marxist rat he is.
I expected to see a many, many TDS-addled shits here bragging about their delusions and was proven correct.
Now make the world a better place: go fuck off and die.
https://twitter.com/_BarringtonII/status/1667325397942272000?t=qMiW_-kX-8o2C0mPxj0YBg&s=19
Now it is clear why masculinity was demonized. Not to uplift femininity, but so when the degeneracy began to spread through and corrupt our most sacred institutions like cancer, men would be too defeated and cowardly to even feel motivated to destroy it. These same men are too weak to save the women, now the children are game, and honestly have been game for awhile now.
It’s the democrat way.
https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1667289519857496064?t=dDFfuRmv4CrAwKa2QU1WOQ&s=19
This is what comes up on Google for searches of Biden-Ukraine scandal:
[Pic]
You should send this to Rep. James Comer, he is having trouble coming up with anything himself.
"It doesn't matter what rights you have under the Constitution of the United States, if the government can punish you for exercising those rights. And it doesn't matter what limits the Constitution puts on government officials' power, if they can exceed those limits without any adverse consequences.
In other words, the Constitution cannot protect you, if you don't protect the Constitution with your votes against anyone who violates it. Those government officials who want more power are not going to stop unless they get stopped."
-Thomas Sowell
That the DoJ has been lenient with some specific politicians does not, in fact, actually serve as evidence they extend that same leniency to other specific politicians.
Where’s the indictment of Hunter Biden for his laptop from hell? Where’s the investigation of that “too-sensitive-for-the-public-to see” FBI memo on Joe Biden’s influence peddling to foreign nations for millions of dollars? Where’s the investigation of Biden’s own squirrelling away of government documents from the days he was a US Senator, right up to his leaving public office for four years when Trump was elected? How many of these documents are “highly classified”? And given the evidence that Biden sold influence to foreign governments, whom did he grant access to these government documents, and for how much? The hypocrisy stinks to high heaven.
This indictment is clearly an attempt to keep Trump in the courtroom defending himself well into the primaries next year. But I can’t help but think this is analogous to Richard Nixon’s assessment of Watergate and his forced resignation: “I gave them a sword,” Nixon said of those who hounded him from office. At least Nixon was big enough to admit that ultimately, he got himself into the Watergate mess. I wonder how much of Trump’s legal troubles stem from a similar, “I gave them a sword”? Sadly, in an election where Joe Biden’s corruption and vile policies should be the main issues, it’s shaping up that Trump himself will be the main focus of the campaign, which is an recipe for defeat. However unfair and unjust all of this is to Trump, he may have to step aside to save the union because the way things are going right now, events are on a trajectory where Biden gets re-elected — the most corrupt and vile person ever to be President. Is Trump so self-centered that he would take both the GOP and the nation into dark defeat next year? The other alternative is that Republicans wake up and nominate someone who isn’t weighed down with baggage. Those are the only two options.
As Libertarians, we shouldn't care who the two legacy parties nominate. We will have our own candidate.
"As Libertarians, we shouldn’t care who the two legacy parties nominate. We will have our own candidate."
Partisan piles of shits like this is the reason Libertarians are to be mocked.
Trump, in four years, did more to advance freedom and limit the size of government than the Libertarian Party has done in its 50 years of existence, but don't ever consider voting for a person like that!
Be like the ignoramus Anastasia Beaverhausen: Keep those blinders firmly in place; no "L"?,
Who want results when you can claim you voted for a certain party?
"Just submit to the totalitarians and things will magically get better"
Fake Objectivist detected. This is Tutu Quoque, Trumpanzee infiltrator for the Army of God.
Why only 30 charges? If you really want to politically harass someone why not 100 charges or 1000 charge or 10,000 charges. That would make the person seem much worse.
Hillary Clinton classified information. Why was a different standard applied to Trump than Clinton?
Comey noted that in order to prosecute a person for mishandling classified information, prosecutors would be required to prove willfulness (a very high bar) or "gross negligence".
"From the group of 30,000 e-mails returned to the State Department, 110 e-mails in 52 e-mail chains have been determined by the owning agency to contain classified information at the time they were sent or received," Comey said at his press conference Tuesday. "Eight of those chains contained information that was Top Secret at the time they were sent.
Comey said he's "not sure" Clinton's server was hacked.
He also acknowledged that a Gmail email account, obtainable by anyone, could be more secure than Clinton's home-brewed server was.
"You know what would be a double standard? If she was prosecuted for gross negligence," Comey noted. "She was negligent. That I can establish."
The FBI director said he was unsure whether former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was "sophisticated" enough to know that the marking meant "confidential
Earlier this week, Comey said that "no charges are appropriate in this case," giving the reason that "no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case." The FBI director did note, however, that Clinton and her staff were "extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information."
“The Committee identified a sequence of events that may amount to obstruction of justice and destruction of evidence by Secretary Clinton and her employees and contractors, including her attorneys, employees of Platte River Networks,” and others, Chaffetz explained. He then asked Phillips to investigate Clinton and company for possibly violating 18 U.S. Code § 1001, 1505, or 1519. Making false statements in or obstructing federal proceedings can trigger prison sentences of up to five years. Destroying records in federal probes can cost up to 20 years behind bars.
Paraphrasing the Donald:
LOCK HIM UP.
Paraphrasing Anastasia Beaverhausen:
"I'm a brain-dead, TDS-addled pile of shit! And PROUD of it!"
Let’s put our pro/anti-Trump prejudices aside for a minute and look at this objectively. (And when I say “objectively,” I mean on its own merits. So no, “But but Biden…!” deflections.)
Yes. I think we can all agree that Donald isn’t even remotely Public Enemy #1. Yes, I think we can all agree that much of this litigation is politically motivated. Yes, I think we can all agree that the Democrats/Media are throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what can stick.
But here’s the problem with/for Donald Trump: He gives his opponents a LOT of spaghetti to throw.
And it’s not invented, it’s Donald’s doing. Caused and in existence solely by his own actions and choices throughout life – both business, social, and politics.
Consider how much baggage this guy comes with:
– Paying off a stripper with hush money. Allegedly.
– Openly saying things that could be read as wanting to election tamper.
– Sexually assaulting and then defaming a crazy woman in a department store.
– Fraud regarding his business valuations. Allegedly.
– The J6 mayhem caused largely by Trump supporters.
– Taking/sharing national security secrets, allegedly for posterity.
And these aren’t just fictional fancies that were invented in the fevered imaginations of Trump haters. There’s arguably something there. In the same order:
– Cohen swears to it, and they have the business records.
– The call to Raffensperger DID happen.
– He made ZERO effort to defend himself against these allegations. Zero.
– He oddly keeps invoking 5A and trying delay the court hearings.
– His conduct that day can most generously be considered “tacit approval.”
– Boxes and boxes and boxes. And some of his own admissions.
And this is JUST the active litigation. The fact remains that he is WIDE OPEN to these kinds of attacks, because he OPENS HIMSELF up to them. Nobody can honestly and objectively say, “Nope, never happened. None of it.” Not without sticking their head in the sand when it comes to the man.
Because something DID happen that comes back to him. It may very well be something that’s been blown out of proportion by a hostile media trying to demonize him – but the fact remains that HE provides fuel for their fires.
And, objectively, at some point we have to stop and ask: is this guy worth all the baggage that comes with him? At what point does supporting him become counterproductive? Is considering an alternative a price worth paying to take the wind out of the media’s sails?
I know what I think on the subject. I only hope that others are willing to honestly ask themselves that question, having honestly considered the subject objectively.
Thanks for reading.
"...– Paying off a stripper with hush money. Allegedly.
– Openly saying things that could be read as wanting to election tamper.
– Sexually assaulting and then defaming a crazy woman in a department store.
– Fraud regarding his business valuations. Allegedly.
– The J6 mayhem caused largely by Trump supporters.
– Taking/sharing national security secrets, allegedly for posterity..."
Lots of 'alleging' and assuming there, steaming pile of TDS-addled shit.
“…But here’s the problem with/for Donald Trump: He gives his opponents a LOT of spaghetti to throw…”
So she deserved it for wearing that short skirt, TDS-addled pile of shit?
Yes, lots of alleging - because they're substantive allegations. Hence the indictments and litigation. There's a good REASON to believe the might have done the things in which he's accused. I provided a second list that paired line for line. (Can't help but notice how you ignored that. Probably because it didn't fit your partisan narrative, right?) Can we maybe consider someone who DOESN'T come with that kind of baggage? Who ISN'T open to such easy avenues of attack?
And no, you completely missed my point with the second line you quoted. The problem with Donald Trump is that he makes a LOT of bad decisions. His opponents then capitalize on those bad decisions to craft a VERY believable narrative about him. Which WE then have to defend against.
The question is - why should we bother, when there are other candidates without this kind of baggage?
For example, take the first one on that list. The fact that he even knows Stormy Daniels is fertile ground for the gossip rags. The fact that he's a known (and unabashed) philanderer and adulterer doesn't help paint a friendly picture of him. His reputation as a shady businessman doesn't either.
Can we maybe put our efforts behind someone who ISN'T a serial adulterer who cavorts with porn stars? Wouldn't that be easier and better for everyone?
I know Trump supporters like to squeal "No more mean tweets" as their simplistic version of pretending that character doesn't matter when judging a person - but, surprise, it does.
And in Trump's case - if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck - then the media has a REALLY EASY job of saying, "Look, a duck."
Trump MAKES that job easy for them. Which is why he's a problem. Even if he's NOT a duck - he's given America no reason to believe otherwise. Especially when he needlessly goes out of his way to quack and waddle like one.
The smarter, more prudent course of action is to cut that millstone off from around our necks, and find someone who doesn't come with so much baggage; for whom we constantly have to carry ridiculous amounts of water just to fend it off.
That's not Trump. That's literally ANYBODY else.
ps. I asked you to please be objective. Couldn't be bothered, huh?
"Yes, lots of alleging – because they’re substantive allegations..."
Bullshit.
Tell me how they're not.
You're just basically petulantly shouting, "NUH UH!!!!"
Well hey, that's great for a sandbox. But this isn't a sandbox. Try harder.
Oh, and:
"...And, objectively, at some point we have to stop and ask: is this guy worth all the baggage that comes with him? At what point does supporting him become counterproductive? Is considering an alternative a price worth paying to take the wind out of the media’s sails?..."
Gee, the best POTUS for the last century, and we throw him under the bus because TDS-addled shits like you don't like him and make up all sorts of stories?
What alternative can we come up with to get rid of assholes like you?
How was he even remotely the best POTUS in the last century? What of his administration even survived after he lost re-election? Look back after 2021, it's like he was never President at all.
Did you like Obama too? Because Trump was the exact same President - incapable of working with the legislature, unwilling to listen to Americans (ALL of them), and ruling exclusively by fiat - just wearing a different color hat.
Interesting admission however, that you want to "get rid" of Americans you don't like. It never ceases to surprise me how Trump supporters are utterly indistinguishable from the Marxist Left. "Purge the undesirables to usher in the New World utopia of our own design!"
We're going to stop you Soros acolytes, Sevo. You MUST know that.
"How was he even remotely the best POTUS in the last century? What of his administration even survived after he lost re-election? Look back after 2021, it’s like he was never President at all..."
So TDS-addled shits like you (and the gov't manipulation of the press) got him replaced and, largely by executive actions performed by a puppet, many of his reforms were reversed.
And now we should just take the 8th best instead?
Fuck you. I'm tired of watching this country turn into a place where I have to beg to get a decent stove and automobile.
Fuck you!
TDS-addled??? I'm not TDS addled. I've been super critical of the guy, and warning of the dangers of backing such a gimp pony.
I'm not a Trump Deranged Supporter who will rationalize his every word and deed, no matter how stupid, wrong, false, immoral, or insane out of sheer unflinching loyalty to a svengali demagogue.
Are you sure you were replying to the right person when you posted that?
(You DO realize that when you use the term "TDS" you're talking about pro-Trump zealots, right? The anti-Trump bloc was called #NeverTrump - and it died, unceremoniously and in complete failure, almost seven years ago. TDS is a VERY pro-Trump thing.)
BTW:
"...What of his administration even survived after he lost re-election? Look back after 2021, it’s like he was never President at all..."
Don't we wish we could say the same for every POTUS between Silent Cal and Trump
-----------------------------------------
And:
"...Did you like Obama too? Because Trump was the exact same President ..."
Folks, we got a LIVE one here!
>Don’t we wish we could say the same for every POTUS between Silent Cal and Trump
We can. They didn't all rule by fiat. Some of them actually understood what Separation of Powers was, and where their role in it fit.
Or, at the very least, they watched Schoolhouse Rock and remembered the catchy song about it.
Trump wasn't one of them. Neither was his teacher, Barack.
Western society comes with a lot of baggage. At what point does supporting it become counterproductive in the face of terrorist jihads or foreign governments working to undermine it.
Shouldnt we just change society to something those terrorists and governments can live with?
At least then we dont have to always be fighting the bad guys – just let them get their way.... because then surely they will stop all their aggression, right?
OK, look - let's make this easier. Let's remove prejudice from the equation and just look at it generically and analytically.
"Hi, I'm Candidate A. I believe in X, Y, and Z - and, if elected to office, I will make sure that X, Y, and Z are my highest priorities."
"Hi, I'm Candidate B. I also believe in X, Y, and Z - and, if elected to office, I will similarly make sure that X, Y, and Z are my highest priorities. Also, there's substantiated reason to believe that I cheat on my wife with strippers then pay them to keep quiet about it, make no effort to rebut the claim that I assault women in department stores, and gossip national security issues with my golfing buddies."
Candidate A and Candidate B are asserting and promising the same things. Candidate B, however, comes with a whole bunch of miserable crap that Candidate A doesn't, that we're going to have to carry water for in order to support Candidate B.
Why DO that? Why even bother if you've got a Candidate A that is promising the same thing, and isn't saddled with ridiculous amounts of baggage that strains credulity to try and rationalize?
That's not even remotely the same as rolling over for terrorism or saboteurs. It's simply saying, "Don't go into a fight with two hands tied behind your back and shooting yourself in the foot."
AT, you are correct that Trump is his own worst enemy. He’s sloppy, vulgar, and undisciplined. And he has a poor understanding of how the government works. But all the so-called crimes are mere peccadilloes, that would never have been charged against JFK, Reagan, or Clinton.
Judge Trump on what he managed to accomplish in the face of entrenched opposition from the deep state and the corrupt media. Peace accords, fewer military actions, more normal taxes, great economy, etc.
Now you see the problem: do you want better, but embarrassing Prez or devious senile Prez?
An easy choice .
> But all the so-called crimes are mere peccadilloes, that would never have been charged against JFK, Reagan, or Clinton.
That's beside the point. JFK, Reagan, and Clinton weren't as wholly despised - on both sides of the aisle, and by staggering numbers of Americans - as Trump is.
And that's the problem. If we're going to get behind a guy like Trump, then he CANNOT come with the baggage that he carries. Because now we're forced to defend the indefensible, and the "best" argument we've got for it is, "Well, Clinton got away with it." Or "They wouldn't have done that to Kennedy."
And that's not an argument. Like I said, "Buh... buh, Biden...!" is a deflection. Pointing to someone just as bad isn't a defense of someone else's bad. You can complain about selective enforcement if you want, but again - that's just a whiny "f-f-faaaairness" argument.
>Judge Trump on what he managed to accomplish in the face of entrenched opposition from the deep state and the corrupt media. Peace accords, fewer military actions, more normal taxes, great economy, etc.
All that was an illusion. A temporary panacea. Gone in the snap of a finger. Because he never bothered to secure his agenda. He ruled by fiat and then, once ousted, those fiats meant nothing.
Good policy means nothing without good governance to back it up, BigT. And Trump did NOT know how to govern. AT ALL.
> Now you see the problem: do you want better, but embarrassing Prez or devious senile Prez? An easy choice .
Indeed. You've already shown me two donkeys - so.... Door #3, Monty.
The Abraham accords are still in force, the corporate tax rate is still 21% (formerly 35%), and SCOTUS is much more reasonable. SloJo is even starting to adopt Trumps immigration policies after the debacle on the border the past 2 years. Certainly could have been better, but I’ll take more of this please!
I would prefer DeSantis since he has a similar outlook, but is an effective manager and is an upstanding person.
The Abraham Accords, huh? Maybe Trump should run for President of UAE instead.
The corpo tax rate huh? Tell me - in your daily finances, have you had it easier since Trump's reign ended, or worse?
SCOTUS? So, like we're literally trying to credit Donald with a couple black robes conveniently dying at an opportune time?
I mean, this is the problem with trying to defend Trump (which is in no small part why he's despised by most). When you sit down and really try to think about it, there's not much he did that we can look at today and say, "Yea... yea, that really made life better for Americans!"
DeSantis can (well, at least for Florida). So can some of the others. But Trump? What's he got going for him other than, "I really trolled the heck out of the media for four years, didn't I!"
As-if no other politician has done the same or worse.
Problem is that this particular politician is so absolutely despised - by like 70% of the nation - that they're all more than happy to find and use whatever dirt they can to rid themselves of him. It doesn't matter in the slightest if it's the same dirt that any other politician has on them - that only tells us that he's not held in as low regard as this one.
You can call it a double-standard if you want (if you want to whine about fairness that is, like a lefty bitch). The fact is that America hates this guy, and will use whatever means he makes available to them to get rid of him.
And this is nothing new. Every employer ever has had that one employee that they just can't stand and maybe they enforce some policy against him, that they wouldn't really bother enforcing against anyone else, just to get rid of them.
If that employee wants to keep his job, he'd better stay squeaky clean. If he can't or won't, well that's his problem isn't it.
“…The fact is that America hates this guy, and will use whatever means he makes available to them to get rid of him…”
This is called “projection” from a TDS-addled steaming pile of shit.
Fuck off and die.
I'm sorry you don't like facts.
I'm even more sorry that your knowledge appears derives exclusively from echo chambers that demand no independent or critical thinking of your own (if not actively eschewing it outright).
That's the biggest problem in this nation, imo. We don't demand critical thinking anymore. We're a nation of followers - and that's never been so clearly expressed than by the Populist Right and the Marxist Left.
Two branches of the same tree. And they don't even realize it.
Sad.
AT, so who is the practical alternative to POTUS Trump? He was arguably the most libertarian POTUS in my lifetime (he was no Obama, regulatory-wise...BEFORE the pandemic - the pandemic fucked everything up!), in terms of military, economic and social policy. The nice thing about POTUS Trump is that he has FU money; he cannot be bought.
What uber-wealthy (has FU money) Team R alternative exists? That is what it is going to take.
There’s lots of alternatives. DeSantis, Pence, Ramaswamy, Haley, Scott, Elder, Burgum, Hutchinson – so far (and that’s assuming that we limit ourselves just to the Republican Party, which would be foolish given the last two decades of their miserable failure/betrayal; which is, at best, only slightly better than the Democrats complete insanity).
All of them have great qualities, some for different reasons than others – but what they ALL have in common is that they’re NOT carrying the kind of baggage that Trump is. We don’t have to defend these candidates with both hands tied behind our back, the way Trump forces us to, against the media narrative machine.
Yes, the media narrative machine would turn against them one and all – but at least with them we don’t have to admit, “Well… yea, he IS an adulterer that consorts with sex workers. Well… yea, he did flat out admit he was showing off national secrets to his buddies. Well… yea, he did seem to turn a blind eye as his supporters went apeshit on the Capitol steps.”
We can instead put our effort into SUPPORTING a good candidate, rather than being constantly exhausted trying to carry his water when – frankly – it doesn’t deserve to be carried, and is near impossible (outside of a populist echo chamber) anyway.
He wasn’t that great a president the first time around (and not even remotely libertarian, conservative, or even all that right-wing in general). This is plainly obvious by the fact that his ENTIRE four years was effectively erased within 90 days of him being out of power. The best you can point to is SCOTUS (but if you’re going to call people fortuitously dying “his accomplishment” then I’m going to give you a very sideways and incredulous look), the Abraham Accords (which mainly benefit countries that aren’t the USA), and handing Afghanistan over to a terrorist organization (which, yea, Biden made way worse – but Trump was 100% committed to regardless). What else survived the early months of 2021? Anything?
It’s because Mr. Pen and Phone ruled by fiat, apparently not having learned from the foot of his master/predecessor – who also thought “President” means “King” or “CEO” – the lesson “live by the EO, die by the EO.” Good policy, perhaps – but unless it’s coupled with good governance, it’s 100% meaningless. Obama never knew that, and his protege Trump therefore never learned it either.
He routinely got played like a dime-store whistle by those who he declared to be “all the best people,” and his obsession with total unquestioning fealty drove away anyone even remotely competent in his Administration to the point that even the environmentalists had to admit that speed of the revolving door of his White House had a cooling effect on atmospheric temperatures across the Eastern seaboard.
AND he lost against the presumptive nominee for the Democrats once already! Which was to be expected, because the ONLY reason he won 2016 in the first place was because the entirety of his campaign was, “I’m not Hillary Clinton.” Which works GREAT when you’re running against Hillary, and all of America is peeing its pants terrified at the thought of her being in the Oval Office, but not very well against literally anyone else.
But in spite of ALL THAT, you’re telling me he’s the practical choice?
Really?
Really???
Are you sure you know what “practical” means?
And yes, he CAN be bought – and he illustrates this ALL the time. Money may be no object to him, but ego is. (Again, just like it was for his predecessor.) Hence why he’s suddenly and inexplicably pro-abortion and LGBTP-friendly. And why he’s obsessed with all the grievances of yesterday, and has no plan whatsoever for tomorrow.
"There’s lots of alternatives. DeSantis, Pence, Ramaswamy, Haley, Scott, Elder, Burgum, Hutchinson –..."
Every one a swamp critter who wouldn't touch what Trump was doing. And you'd cheer them on.
Sad.
You realize that Trump is - and always has been - a swamp critter as well, yes?
The guy was a lifelong liberal Democrat (whose own family had to be reminded to switch parties at the last minute), New York aristocrat, besties with the Clintons, and a career-long beneficiary of the DC graft. He pretended to be an outsider candidate, but has been playing in that swamp to the benefit of his businesses for years. He'd talked about running before (as far back as the 80s) and he owed favors all over Washington. And, while I won't outright call him a conman (even though I do kinda think that), I think he played large swaths of the right by pandering to everything they ever wanted to hear.
The thing that bugged me (and should have bugged you) about Trump, right out of the gate, is the way he campaigned. It's as if a leftist had said, "If I want to impersonate someone on the right using all the leftist stereotypes I believe about them..." And that's precisely what he did. I didn't fall for it. Why did you?
And why do you continue to do so as he licks his finger and tests the political winds - suddenly deciding that he's pro-abortion and pro-LGBTP simply because other candidates aren't?
Is that the behavior of an outsider carving his own path? Or is that just another venomous snake in a swamp? One that's already bit you once, I might add.
"You realize that Trump is – and always has been – a swamp critter as well, yes?..."
Words have meanings; don't bother slinging bullshit.
Yes, they do have meaning. Trump is absolutely, 100%, undeniably, a swamp creature.
It's why he did NOTHING WHATSOEVER to "drain the swamp," as his supporters loved to say. In fact, he seemed to go out of its way to back candidates who would ultimately serve Democrat goals - Like McCarthy, for recent example - while simultaneously poison-pilling Republicans to such a degree that the 2022 "red wave" became a "purple tinkle" thanks to him.
And you're telling me he's NOT a swampy? Wake up dude. Start paying attention to what's going on around you.
There’s lots of alternatives. DeSantis, Pence, Ramaswamy, Haley, Scott, Elder, Burgum, Hutchinson...
Which of them has FU money? Answer: None.
Like I said - having a fat pocketbook isn't a magic shield. If he can't be bought one way, he can easily be bought another way.
And if all that isn't a good enough answer for you - then answer me this:
Suppose Trump dropped dead tomorrow. Some unforeseen ailment and the reaper just up and took him.
What then? Who's your #2?
Answer that, and you have your practical alternative to Trump.
(And if you can't answer that, if you're so rudderless and indecisive WITHOUT Trump such that you'll be rendered frozen at the 2024 polls - then I'm going to go ahead and suggest that you're not taking this subject very seriously at all.)
"What then? Who’s your #2?
Answer that, and you have your practical alternative to Trump..."
Make that between 8 and 10 - DeSantis (holding my nose).
You're missing the fact that Trump (as of now) remains unique in the last century of POTUS. No a one got close.
OK, so give me two through eight.
Trump dies. Now you're on Team DeSantis? Begrudgingly, but still on board?
Why not just cut to the chase? Toss the dead weight and all its baggage to the wolves, and get on with the next best thing (or the better thing, ymmv).
You are obviously an idiot or being purposely obtuse.
Currently, no one is standing for POTUS who is within 8 Trumps; the man is currently unique.
"Why not just cut to the chase? Toss the dead weight and all its baggage to the wolves, and get on with the next best thing (or the better thing, ymmv)."
The chase? I'm sick and tired of 'go along to get along' shits. Most of the TDS-addled claim there is 'no difference' between Trump and droolin' Joe; that's a lie.
Between droolin' Joe and DeSantis, they're getting close.
He's not unique. I can point to an entire Congress, as well as both his successor AND predecessor in which the similarities are staggering. Putting on a different hat doesn't change that fact, Sevo.
You, of course, don't want to hear that. Head meet sand, as you retreat into a bubble of TDS where the man can do no wrong and is loved by everyone.
I'm not advocating "go along to get along." I'm advocating DO BETTER than what you're doing now. Because what you're doing now is stupid. It gave us nothing when we had it, failed the last time it was tried, and has given us nothing but unnecessary and indefensible baggage ever since.
Why are you so committed to losing?
Don't answer, I already know. It's the TDS.
Trump has always been an agent of the Democrats. And so have his supporters. Either intentionally, or as useful idiots. That's why they're winning, and you've gained nothing. And dragged the rest of us down with you.
Shame on you.
"I’m sorry you don’t like facts..."
How would you know? You don't have any.
I've posted plenty. Tell me which ones you dispute, and we can discuss their merits. But if you're just calling me a blanket liar because I'm not echoing your chamber and toeing your party narrative - well, again... Trump supporters just love to show how they're indistinguishable from Leftists, don't they.
Read which ones I wasted time on; there's not much other worthy of comment.
You're simply one more 'go along to get along' POS.
I already did, and flipped your mindless narrative recitation on its head. You're on a site called Reason, Sevo. You're going to have to do some thinking on your own if you're going to keep up.
"I already did, and flipped your mindless narrative recitation on its head."
I see. Calling you on your bullshit is really tough, isn't it.
Fuck off and die.
About what I'd expect from a Leftist. Blue hat, red hat - you're all the same.
"About what I’d expect from a Leftist. Blue hat, red hat – you’re all the same."
Oh, gee! You got me! (and admitted you are full of shit)
Fuck off and die, asshole.
"Problem is that this particular politician is so absolutely despised – by like 70% of the nation – that they’re all more than happy to find and use whatever dirt they can to rid themselves of him..."
Oh, BOY! Gov't enforced mob rule! It seems you might have principles. Which stink more than a pile of shit.
You didn't mind it when it took down Hillary, did you.
But hey, Trump and Hillary are two sides of the same coin. It doesn't surprise me that they - and their diehard supporters - refuse to believe just how absolutely hated they are. They, and their supporters, never leave their echo chambers. The echoes are confused with widespread support, when they're just echoes - and anybody who doesn't preach their religion is dismissed out of hand as irrelevant.
Well, Hillary learned the hard way in 2016.
And then Trump learned the same in 2020.
Which of those two absolutely hated morons is STILL trying to drag down America, in their insatiable lust for power and adulation, despite America flat out handing them a Dear John letter?
Also - dude. Your comment is absurd. If 70% of America hates the idea of eating bugs, are you going to scream "MOB RULE" in favor of the bugs?
That's what Trump is. He's ground crickets. America doesn't want that. We want a friggin' hamburger. Stop trying to force America to eat the bugs, simply because you're a fringe minority that loves them and refuses to acknowledge anyone and everyone who doesn't.
"...But hey, Trump and Hillary are two sides of the same coin..."
Do you assume that posts by a lying TDS-addled shit pile will convince other than lying TDS-addled shit piles of anything at all?
Stuff your TDS up your ass; your head wants company.
Again, you seem to be the only TDS sufferer around here.
I can only show you the alternatives. YOU have to make the choice to be better than that.
AT, government power and legal actions did not take down Hillary, they protected her. Trump has been uniquely attacked by many branches of the government. The Swamp is winning. And you are good with that?
What I'd be good with is someone who doesn't give his opposition so many easy and open areas of attack.
Take my very first bullet point. Can we maybe find someone who ISN'T a serial adulterer and philanderer who openly consorts with sex workers? Is that really so much to ask?
Why do we want to carry that guy's water, when there are SO MANY other candidates who aren't serial adulterers that openly consort with sex workers?
That's the problem with Trump. He's a walking, talking PERFECT illustration of "lay down with dogs, wake up with fleas."
POTUS' are not angels; none of them. Philandering and adultery seem to be a prerequisite for the job.
The problem here is no one with FU money and a libertarian outlook is willing to run for the office. To defeat Team D, you will need someone with FU money and a legal fund like you would not believe.
It doesn't make me happy that this is what the country has come to.
I'm not asking for angels. I'm simply asking for something slightly better than completely despicable scumbags in every way shape and form.
I'm sure we can muster SOMEONE as a candidate for office that isn't facing the better half of a dozen active lawsuits/investigations against him, right? Can we simply agree that such a person - whoever it might be - is a far cry better than the guy who just keeps dumping more and more gallons of water for us to carry for him?
No; America doesn't "hate this guy". Lefties do.
You do state a lot of truth that it is a double-standard. That it is mob-mentality "witch hunting". That it is EVERYTHING the left stands for ... Witch hunts and Political gangster battles for Power.
BUT... It isn't "his problem" at all. It's a problem with lefty gang-mentality and the fact you have the nerve to call it "(if you want to whine about fairness that is, like a lefty bitch)" is exactly 100% projection as Sevo points out. The left has never cared at all about playing fair; it's all about Gangster-Battles to the lefty mentality.
Ironically; as you so well point out while pretending it's all of America instead of just the left.
That's mindless partisanship talking.
America hates this guy. And it's bipartisan hatred, make no mistake. A good percentage of the right, an even better one among the moderates, and ALL right left.
His actual supporters are WELL below 50%. High 30s, at best. He did something no leftist politician has EVER managed - he flat out fractured the American right. #NT came and went, but the schism remained - constitutional/capitalist conservatives vs. collectivist populists. And Trump's bloc is almost exclusively the latter.
And of them, not even all are True Believers. There's a notable number that are more along the lines of, "I hate his guts, but I don't like the odds otherwise."
It's not just the left. TJ. It's everyone except his own bloc. Even the indifferent voters who don't pay attention to anything hate him on pure reflex/prejudice.
It's not like a Dubya, "Eh, I can take him or leave him." It's certainly not like Reagan. With Trump the general American sentiment is, "I hate his friggin' guts and never want to see or hear from him again."
He and Hillary have always had that in common.
...
It's important to remember the overwhelming favorite for presidential candidate for Republicans is a twice impeached, twice indicted and once (so far) found guilty compulsive liar. There is nothing conservative about an immoral con artist. It's time to deprogram all these Cult 45 members and back a candidate who is actually qualified to govern for a change (what a novel concept.) His lawyers are abandoning him because he's a hopeless case who never pays anyway.
Conservatism - like all the political -isms - is not the root belief of people, it's a symptom of deeper beliefs, like atoms vs sub-atomic particles. This means that if someone can appeal more strongly to those root beliefs than conservatism does, people who hold those beliefs will switch, and in an unconscious way are not even being hypocritical in doing so.
Hence Trump.
And Charles Manson. And Jim Jones. And Marshall Applewhite.
The sirens play a seductive song, SRG. It's designed to lure people in and crash them mercilessly on the rocks. And to make them do so intentionally, having convinced them that it was their own idea and that it was a great one at that.
"And Charles Manson. And Jim Jones. And Marshall Applewhite."
We're to assume there is some consistency here from a steaming pile of TDS-addled shit?
Ask Willy Brown about Jim Jones, asshole. He immediately finds he has issues across the room which need immediate attention.
You really are an ignorant fucking pile of TDS-addled shit, aren't you?
No, that's you projecting.
And, honestly - could you try some decorum perhaps? Loading your posts with pointless profanity doesn't give you more authority. I know it's probably ingrained in you from all your time participating in antifa riots and going full-triggered on your college campus when someone doesn't use your pronouns - but, please, try to at least pretend like you're an adult participating in an adult conversation.
Hence Franco, Mussolini, Hitler... mystical altruists with government guns backed by brainwashed goons. Sad!
Wrong. Conservatism is the philosophy that before jumping off into something new be sure to preserve the good aspects of what you have, I.e. look before you leap. Neo-liberalism or progressivism considers only the potential positive aspects of a new policy and neglects the side effects, I.e. the grass is always greener on the other side, or change for change’s sake. Our government was set up with a conservative Senate and a more liberal House. When Senators became elected by the people (17th A) the balance was broken and government policy became unstable. We are suffering the consequences.
In your zeal to disagree with me, you failed to appreciate that I didn't define "conservatism" at all - my observation was about people's adherence to it.
And surely you can understand that people who benefit from the status quo are likely to be conservative not because of some Burkean or Oakeshottian rationale but because they benefit from it. Do you think that self-described conservatives in rural America are conservative because they believe deep-down in the importance of institutional memory or that untested ideologies have the risk of unforeseen consequences? Or is it because they're change-averse and rather like the way things used to be?
"In your zeal to disagree with me, you failed to appreciate that I didn’t define “conservatism” at all – my observation was about people’s adherence to it..."
Of course we expect weaseling from you.
Or maybe it just means a 'conservative' government (i.e. LIMITED) or to 'conserve' the US Constitution (the very *actual* definition of the USA).
"...There is nothing conservative about an immoral con artist..."
Nor is there anything remotely 'intelligent' about a lying pile of TDS-addled shit.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
This disgusting spectacle, where superstitious hate-flingers invade the LP and ordure-smear the libertarian magazine after blowing their own brains out bullying women voters, is pathetic. May all Maga and Antifa dirtbags end up in an arena with short knives. And may the last bigot standing live a full minute longer than the runner-up.
Last time around, Republicans were to genteel to charge Hillary, Obama, and Biden.
Now that a precedent has been set, let's hope they will not hesitate to prosecute these people to the full extent of the law, and impeach when reasonably possible.
"...and impeach when reasonably possible."
Not to mention indict as the hag was more than due.
Yes...what you say is going to happen. Team R has to do the same, they cannot be 'gentlemenly' about this anymore.
I don't see Team R having the balls to impeach POTUS Biden. They need to grow a pair and fight fire with fire.
What do expect when you elect a foul-mouthed reality "star" whose been married 3 times, bankrupt multiple times, and who pays prostitutes to touch him?
He's the type to always have something to show off; his tiny pee pee, golden toilet, pretty daughter, or stolen/classified documents.
"What do expect when you elect a foul-mouthed reality “star” whose been married 3 times, bankrupt multiple times, and who pays prostitutes to touch him?..."
Much more than from loser TDS-addled pile of shit, loser, TDS-addled pile of shit. And we got FAR, FAR more.
Fuck off and die.
All this is whataboutism concerning Biden and Hillary Clinton is besides the point.
Is Trump really the best the Republicans can come up with for a candidate?
You mean pointing our that Trump is getting indicted for far less damaging behavior than notable Ds? That this is a slimy, partisan, political prosecution which should not be allowed to happen in America? That sort of 'whataboutism'?
And, yes, Trump remains the best POTUS we've had for the last 100 years and it's worth the effort if there's any chance at all of getting him re-elected.
Our Founders did not expect our Republic to last more than 50 years. We had a good run. Now a former President stands indicted of “crimes” he was Constitutionally incapable of committing. I had hoped our nation would outlast me, but sadly I’m going to get to witness it’s pathetic ending.
Left wondering if there's any positive result possible; sad, sad time to be a citizen.
What a pathetic post.
You believe Trump's mental declassification story, though there is s per the indictment a tape where he himself says that he didn't declassify.
BTW the Constitution says nothing about classification or declassification of documents.
Suppose that Trump did not declassify documents, and after he was no longer president he showed classified docs to people not cleared to receive them, that he withheld classified docs when asked to return them, that he instructed an attorney to claim that he had returned all docs when he hadn't.
Should he then be held up on criminal charges?
Tell us, oh obnoxiously arrogant piece of shit, what magic words you require for him to use material as declassified.
Or, please, eat shit and die.
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“The unauthorized disclosure of these classified documents could put at risk the national security of the United States, foreign relations, the safety of the United States military, and human sources and the continued viability of sensitive collection methods,” the government alleges.”
First of all, why did Trump even HAVE such documents somewhere that he could move them to his home after leaving office? If these had actually been documents of such “sensitivity” that they could have seriously risked the national security (in the military sense) then I have serious questions about the document security system in the first place! Do we seriously believe that the National Archives would have been more secure than Fort Knox, for example; or the basement vault of a former President’s mansion compound? Concerning “foreign relations” – not just “no” but “HELL no!” How is it that we find it necessary to spy on everyone else, yet it's a crime for everyone else to spy on us? Although I could not care less what happens to Trump personally – after all, what goes around, comes around – I think this is yet another example of why our Constitutionally-limited form of government has been circling the drain for a while now.
Why Reason is nothing more than another DNC mouthpiece:
From the article, quoting an earlier article:
Biden's cooperation with federal law enforcement may weigh against finding that there was criminal intent or willful mishandling
A REAL news organization, the Wall Street Journal (much more Libertarian than this website) points out that Biden's "cooperation" so far has consisted of refusing to be interviewed by the Special Prosecutor or even providing a statement. How is that not "obstruction of justice"?
I have been looking for a convenient and secure way to share documents for a long time, and this service has fully met my expectations. It allows me to upload, store and share documents in a secure environment. I can easily manage access to files and control document versions. And I would say that has made document sharing easy and secure.
Donald Trump Indicted on One Charge 30 Times in Classified Documents Case
Much like the New York Indictment, which shows you how desperate they are to keep Trump out of the next election,
It sounds great and all, but proving a guy has a gun to your head and knowing he is willing to pull the trigger isn't the deterent some may believe.
Right?
Just a typical permanent managerial class AWFL who could pull off decent cosmo leftist parody because... all her friends and associates are cosmo leftists.
I enjoy mocking Hillary dead-enders who psyched themselves into embracing a childish fantasy in which she actually won in 2016, and Robert Mueller would fix everything.
I also enjoy mocking Trump dead-enders whose best case for Trump 2024 is the internally contradictory Trump won in 2020, but THE DEEP STATE stole it for Biden, so let's nominate Trump again and watch the rematch play out exactly the same way.
You're not beholden to a candidate or a tribe, lots of people can't comprehend that.
You know what Sandra, I’m going to apologize to you.
I didn’t click the link and assumed that “I’m voting for the guy who has the most arrests and indictments” was you mocking us and insinuating that accusations and frivolous charges implies guilt.
It was kneejerk and stupid and I shouldn’t have done it. Mea culpa. I’m sorry.
Here's the fundamental problem with the pro-Trump-2024 crowd I'll keep hammering away at until one of them gives a satisfactory answer.
Trump supporters have to pick from one of these options:
1. OK, the DEEP STATE didn't actually cheat in 2020, that's just Trump's wounded ego talking.
2. The DEEP STATE cheated in 2020 but 2024 will be different.
3. The DEEP STATE cheated in 2020 and will do the same thing in 2024.
I'd say #1 is the "best" way to go. But it's the argument they never make.
Anyone who goes with the second option needs to explain *why* 2024 will be different.
And anyone who picks #3 is demanding the GOP forfeit an election against elderly unpopular Joe Biden.
You don't need to have "TDS" or be a "leftist" to see the obvious flaws in the Trump 2024 position.
I completely agree with your position.
No, like inquisitive squirrel, Sandra is beholden to her fragile ego and midwit insecurities.
Common among the inherently mediocre who have been artificially raised above their value by a decadent system that despises merit and rewards servile obedience.
Thus they feel what the mainstream tells them to feel like all good little subjects, yet pose as if they're individuals.
Yes. 2020 was the cleanest most fraud free election. Just ignore all the court cases and evidence that has come out. Just sad at this point. Did it change the outcome? We don't know. Was their fraud and illegal election changes? Yes. But you can't admit it.
Good for you. Didn’t mention you at all, as such, it's strange you needed to make that comment.
Trump is being railroaded for being a political enemy of the democrat party. Period. Are you so willfully obtuse that you can’t see that?
"You’re not beholden to a candidate or a tribe, lots of people can’t comprehend that."
Complete morons are not capable of discerning the better from the worse, and in their idiotic claim to superiority assume that those who possess brains won't notice the imbecility.
Hint, shit-for-brains, if you find a candidate who supports freedom and attempts to limit government, VOTE FOR IT, even if it's some dofuss tranny wearing funny shoes.
You, you slimy pile of shit, the TDS-addled fuck-face OBL, and the lot of you OWN this.
Fuck off and die; make your family proud.
Lol! Not what I was commenting on.
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We all acknowledge youre a leftist moron.
How do boots taste?
EdG and his tribe love the taste of horse dung and human ash.
The BLM (AKA the Ebony KKK) will immediately be activated if Trump wins the primary.
I didn’t and I’ve received 3 texts in the past 24 hours. I voted for him in 2020, but every day since November of that year I’ve regretted that decision- should have just left the ballot blank.
Yes, Clinton is/was awful, Biden is/was awful, etc. “Trump should get away with it too” is not a compelling argument, at least in the eyes of the law. Politically is another story.
If half of what he’s charged with is true, it makes me sick to my stomach.
If half of what he is charged with is true, the feds should investigate everyone coming in and out of the executive branch to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
And, ironically, had Trump cooperated, this indictment wouldn't have happened.
Complete TDS-addled shits like IS DO believe this.
Yes, I do. Guy was given more of a chance than any average Joe would get.
What is this weird allegiance to Trump? I really don't understand it.
Utter bullshit. They have gone after him for everything.
"I know you are, but what am I?"
I have never been surprised, while commenting on Reason, by a MAGA rightwinger revealing a personal fact that suggests they were born after 1980, a POC, queer, or (gasp) a woman. It seems like every single commenter I engage with regularly is nearing or in retirement, white, male, usually from the midwest or the south.
Then maybe he needs to stop breaking the law.
This indictment is all on Trump. He could easily have avoided it, but he's his own worst enemy.
You mean like when he did not collude with Russia but was investigated for it anyway?
Or when he was spied on by the Feds who lied to the FISA court.
Oh, how about the time he asked a foreign leader about the criminal misdeeds of a private citizen and was impeached for it.
Or the time he called for peaceful protests and was impeached again over it!
Eh, I don’t subscribe to any of that. Stop playing the simplistic binary framing game.
I’m so tired of this. The lame argument of “they were bad to Trump so Trump is now excused from being bad himself.”
Here’s a really good life lesson for you: two things can be true at once. The treatment of Trump by Dems was atrocious and the actions of Trump are also atrocious.
The irony is the fact that people like you who waive away poor behavior from your team because of the poor behavior from the other team is exactly why we get poor behavior from both teams.
Surprised only once, when soldiermedic76 said he is bisexual.
So what are you? Born after 1980? A POC? Queer? Or (gasp) a woman? Or a combination of those?
"Dearth"
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/dearth
One definition:
a lack of something
Perhaps you misread. Or perhaps you're just an ignorant cracker who in good Dunning-Kruger style didn't know that you didn't know the meaning of the word.
MoLa has on more than one occasion - including in a hypothetical he'd asked me - either implied or claimed that most of the papers would turn out to be related to Crossfire Hurricane and Trump was keeping them safe or secure. As is evidently the case, many, and perhaps all the docs were not about Crossfire Hurricane. So I guess MoLa will have to find another conspiracy to spread.
I'm a combination of those. But, more to the point, I'm not a MAGA rightwinger.
I'm making over $7,000 a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life. This is what I do,
HERE----------->> http://findcash1.blogspot.com/
"I’m so tired of this. The lame argument of “they were bad to Trump so Trump is now excused from being bad himself.”
You are missing my point! JesseAz pointed out that they have continually gone after Trump and you said "Then maybe he needs to stop breaking the law."
I responding about all the times he did not break the law, but they went after him anyway, often breaking the law themselves.
Hmmm....I guess there is no way to gaslight an answer to your last statement.