Have a Lifeguard Shortage at Your Pool? Here's a Big, Underreported Reason Why
Memorial Day ushers in the unofficial start of summer. But if your pool is missing lifeguards, issues with immigration may be the culprit.

Memorial Day ushers in the unofficial start of summer. We're still three weeks off from the summer solstice, but for many kids (and kids at heart!) a more nostalgic marker is here. The pools are open.
Unfortunately, however, fledgling swimmers once again have to deal with some rain on their parade in the form of the ongoing lifeguard shortage, which, at this point, is starting to sound like the song that never ends. It was set in motion by the COVID-19 pandemic. There are simply not enough people, namely teens, who want to do this work, we're told. But there is a major piece of the puzzle, which is both underappreciated and underreported, that in part explains why there is suddenly a dearth of qualified applicants: immigration restrictions.
In June 2020, former President Donald Trump issued an executive order suspending foreign work visas. That included the J-1 visa, also known as the exchange visitor visa, which, as it turns out, is a major vehicle for filling vacant lifeguard spots at pools across the country. Before COVID, the American Lifeguard Association (ALA) used to train about 300,000 new recruits a year, 50,000 of which came from J-1 visa recipients.
The ban expired in April 2021. But the effects, including the massive backlog in applications it created, reverberated. Bernard Fisher II, the director of health and safety at the ALA, told ABC News last June that "the lack of the J-1 visa candidates coming in as strongly as they they were" has prevented the association from reaching "pre pandemic enrollment times." He continued: "So with that said, we have a very serious problem in enrollment now." In 2022, the U.S. State Department issued 284,486 J-1 visas in total, which is over 50,000 shy of levels before the pandemic. And in the years before the pandemic, the U.S. began subjecting applicants to more rigorous vetting and bureaucracy, slowing down an already-inefficient process, as red tape often does.
That lifeguarding came to be filled somewhat heavily by immigrants was, ironically, a product of the country's last lifeguarding shortage. Twenty years ago, as more pools popped up, immigrants came to address a need not satisfied by the inadequate number of applicants in the states. Everything old is new again.
Today, some posit that teens are declining lifeguarding work in favor of higher pay in retail or at restaurants. It's not that qualified people don't exist, per se. It's that they want to do other things, and we don't have people readily available to supplant them. That quandary has sent some pools to desperate lengths, including in Philadelphia, where the city has allegedly hired lifeguards who cannot swim. Grim.
To add insult to injury, many foreign lifeguards come over from Eastern Europe, an area that has been partially upended by Russia's war in Ukraine.
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If you're handing out visas for people to *train to become* lifeguards, you're doing immigration fraud.
Rainbow forbid there should be a domestic market in anything!
Yeah, my neighborhood pool hires lifeguards from ... the neighborhood. I guess neighborhoods that are not so well-suited for raising middle-class kids might have a relative shortage of good candidates, but maybe that just means residents should go to the Y or somewhere else rather than have two pools per neighborhood.
The reason editors are probably referring to minority neighborhoods and believe on the trope they can't swim.
They should hire slow joe.
He’ll take care of the “roaches”.
He’s so folksy!
No Reason writers support the Joe Biden woke liberal policy of open borders. They are willing to see our economy, our culture and our safety destroyed because some country club might lack a lifeguard. Of course when that happens, they will blame that on Trump too!
Reason: There's no problem that can't be solved by replacing Americans with foreigners!
https://twitter.com/restoreorderusa/status/1663044464280055808?t=_YmiqCliELguz-30mugpjw&s=19
Reminder that the LGBT agenda was sold to Americans incrementally – and that "we're coming for your kids" was once dismissed as a paranoid misrepresentation of what the left wanted. This was always true – they're just honest about it now because they feel confident.
[Link]
This is why you don't give these people the time of day, even when they're calling for "reasonable" reforms.
When the Enlightened™ ask you, "What do you care what people do in their bedrooms?", this is why you care. Because eventually, they'll want to be doing it in your bedroom. And in the streets, in the shopping malls and in the office. The "reasonable" reform is the gangplank for initiating the outrageous one.
If Americans understood when they were legalizing sodomy that eventually the school teacher would be assisting their children to transition, I suspect they would have decided that issue differently.
But, of course, they heard about no such thing at the time, did they?
Do you think sodomy should be a crime?
Nemo is a JesseAz sock. A week or so ago he posted as Nemo, and then replied to a reply as JesseAz but slipped and said “me” in it. Accidentally read it when the browner logged me out.
Fuck off you drunk pussy. Go hide.
Is that so. Huh.
It is, and should be when you groom children for it Jeffy. You can’t have that young boy flesh you crave.
Actually, sodomy is no longer a crime, see Lawrence v. Texas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas
Why do you think sodomy should be a crime?
Read closer. It is WHEN YOU GROOM CHILDREN FOR IT. Did you think that part of the sentence was somehow vestigial? And I don’t care if you and your fellow travelers spruce each others assholes. Just keep kids out of it.
The former law refers to Sodomy between consenting adults here. Curb your enthusiasm for want to shoot someone.
So will you be burning witches in our bedrooms, streets, shopping malls, and offices too? Will you be burning the future generations of witches too if they get a little too fond for Sabrina The Teenage Witch or Harry Potter Bertie Bot's Beans?
Fuck Off, Witch-Burning Nazi!
Don’t rape any children and you’ll be fine.
Democrats just can’t help themselves.
https://twitter.com/Travis_in_Flint/status/1662983669282140164?t=Gy5L7OeMTINFTgPIiSPupA&s=19
Only in America: Two employees fired for calling the police on thieves.
A Lululemon in Atlanta was being robbed, and after being robbed multiple times already recently the Manager and an employee decided to follow them and get their license plat and call the police. Thanks to them the thieves were captured.
The two employees were fired by Lululemon because they have a zero tolerance policy. What is happening to this country?
[Link]
Please steal this store.
Once again Nardz posts a story that sounds fishy, and, coincidentally, contains no links to original source material about the incident in question. It is simply an assertion with no corroboration.
So, I looked up a news article on the incident.
https://www.businessinsider.com/lululemon-employees-say-they-were-fired-reporting-robbery-to-police-2023-5
So you can read the article yourself, and draw your own conclusions as to what is really going on here.
It looks like the two employees were fired, but not for "calling the police". The two employees followed them and interacted with the thieves and recorded them. That is, apparently, why they were fired. And it is not hard to understand why a company might have a policy like this. It is potentially very dangerous for employees to be interacting with robbers. Those robbers might very well have assaulted or shot the employees for following and recording them. And if anything happened to those employees, the company is partially liable.
So, we can have a discussion about whether it is a good idea or a bad idea for companies to have a policy like this, whether it encourages robbers to steal or whether it protects employees' safety, but we should at least be informed as to the real issue.
But this is typical of Nardz and his news sources, they don't seek to inform, they seek to inflame and generate outrage.
Someone post molesterjeff's address
And Shreek’s.
Their only interaction with the thieves was to tell them to stop. At no point did they hinder them, stand in their way, or physically try to stop them (although they should have)
From the article:
They also recorded the robbers. Did the robbers know that they were being recorded? If so then that also would have been dangerous.
I can see where the store management is exercising abundant caution and not encouraging their employees to do something potentially very dangerous and interact with robbers in the store. I am not sure if firing was the proper punishment for their policy transgression though.
That's the most severe action management can take. If they take anything less than the most severe action when another (or even the same) employee violates this same rule and gets shot and paralyzed, the business will be sued and the employee's lawyer will tell the jury "They failed to enforce their policy in the past so employees didn't take it seriously and as a result my client is paralyzed. Make the evil corporation pay up".
As much as I support and love to see a business owner take down thugs who rob them, if I owned a business I would also have a zero-tolerance "give the thugs what they demand" policy as the cost/value of the goods or money taken is far less than the possible injury or death of the employee(s). I might exclude myself from the rule, but I own the business and am not just an employee. Instead, I'd focus on security measures such as cameras, remote monitoring, panic buttons, locking valuables up, "deposit only" safes, and training. (And at the extreme, sally ports at the entrances/exits if I could figure out how to make them fire code compliant).
Your italicized text nails the real issue here.
We ought to cut way back on “you failed to force me….” or “you failed to stop me….” as a basis for lawsuits when it’s competent adults. It erodes the whole concept of individual responsibility.
When I worked for Domino's (87-88) the policy was for the employees to co-operate when they were robbed. That was until there was a robbery in one of the Orlando stores. There was video of the employees co-operating and then being forced into the refrigerator where they were all shot in the head. All six of them. These policies are not for the safety of their customers and employees, the policies reduce the liability for the company.
I always ignored such policies and took whatever action I deemed prudent. I can always get another job.
Are Trump-era policies responsible for your sugar daddy Charles Koch's $6,500,000,000 loss in 2023? Just look how much better other American billionaires are doing in the Biden economy! 🙁
#OpenTheBordersToHelpCharlesKoch
#CheapLaborAboveAll
Reason will use any excuse to call for mass immigration. First without mass immigration we wouldn't be able to eat, now we can't even recreate without foreign nationals. Apparently there's nothing Americans can do for themselves, we need foreign nationals to do it for us.
There have been lifeguard shortages for three years now... So Wuhan Flu and post-Flu, but if it truly is a lack of immigrants that is the cause - were 5 million entries in the last two years not enough to fill these jobs.
How many millions of lifeguard positions are there?
Millions! And without open borders no one can swim!
Well we know they can swim. That's how half of them got here.
Immigration: Removes stubborn stains and is a dessert topping!
Is it also a floor wax?
Does it clap on, clap off?
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Is it just me, or is there something un-libertarian about lifeguards?
Please, DO explain...
I think he's referring to this cheap shot comic strip:
Why Libertarians Make Bad Lifeguards
https://www.reddit.com/r/libertariancomics/comments/pbx47/libertarians_make_bad_lifeguards/
++
It may be the part about pools being tax-funded; lifeguards are very libertarian for property owners to be responsible for invited (paying) guests and even family if necessary
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"It may be the part about pools being tax-funded; lifeguards are very libertarian for property owners to be responsible for invited (paying) guests and even family if necessary."
Okay. So it's not the "lifeguards" who are un-libertarian, it's the government system which runs the pools.
State-funded lifeguards? Or the profession of a lifeguard?
Good ol' Reason.
Memorial Day.
Two world wars, a police action, the mess in SE Asia, and more other armed conflicts than we can count, and they ignore the US Military to root for foreign labor.
It no longer even shocks.
What would you like Reason to post on its blog for Memorial Day? Are you asking for something like a blog post that says, "We at Reason salute our men and women in uniform", etc.?
It may very well be that we have a shortage of lifeguards because of restrictions on immigrants, but this article does not prove that. It could instead be that we have a decrease in lifeguards because there is generally a post-pandemic labor shortage around the world. Mr Binnion does nothing to prove one way or the other. That doesn't keep him from pretending that he is proving things:
"That lifeguarding came to be filled somewhat heavily by immigrants was, ironically, a product of the country's last lifeguarding shortage. Twenty years ago, as more pools popped up, immigrants came to **address a need** [LINK] not satisfied by the inadequate number of applicants in the states."
The "Proof link" in this quote proves no such thing. It is merely a link to an NPR article from Last Year (not 20 years ago) making the same assertion. Still other links claim to show that restrictions are causing shortages when in fact they say that "Embassies in certain countries have limited hours or are still closed because of the virus [and a] ban on travel for most people coming from 33 countries, including the U.K."
This is not to say that governments aren't clearly at fault. They are. But this is not solely an immigration problem that would be solved with more J1 Applications. The backlog was largely caused by PANDEMIC policies that were tangential to immigration.
Overall, Mr Binnion's logic is a bit squirrelly in this article. He mentions a lot of teen behaviors (again citing no proof) but then insists the real problem is some 50,000 J1 Applications. Let's be clear here: If teens are going to Restaurants for work, then that says Restaurants are paying more for the jobs than Pools are willing to pay. Increasing J1 Applications will not fix that problem- it will in fact mean that Lifeguard jobs face less labor pressure. In fact, Mr Binnion hints that he understands- but will not come out and say- that it is Immigration and Minimum Wage requirements that generally push teenagers out of every market.
Add on top of that the fact that I don't think J1s are as impactful as people think here. Most of the J1's I am familiar with are the types that bring college-age kids out here during the summer/winter to work at resorts, not community pools. I actually think J1s are a fantastic example of how Immigration SHOULD work in this country, since it represents a sponsor in the states agreeing to take responsibility for Immigrants coming to the country. But the idea that Philadelphia community pools are doing work sponsorships could be plausible, but I seriously doubt it.
Overall, this hastily written article has become more of what I expect here at Reason. It makes assertions that it doesn't bother to prove, which then gives them license to insist that a minor impact to markets is THE cause. Don't get me wrong, I would like to see more J1 immigration. But when you hinge all the world's ills on your policy prescription, it actually gives critics an easy target to say you are over-exagerating (and they are). Reason can be better than this.
In my case, as my very progressive upstairs neighbor recently found out, it's due to regulations.
He applied to be a life guard at the Richmond Heights Community Center, but because we live a block South of the Richmond Heights / Maplewood city border/Dixon line, was denied. Also apparently there's state licensing for that, which was not the case when I lifeguarded briefly about 25 years ago. You need to be qualified and take a test and also have current certifications in CPR and other things.
Can't have just anyone dragging injured people out of pools or yelling 'WALK DON'T RUN' to pre-teens just having fun, now, can we?
Just wanted to juxtapose your comment with the comment made above.
Above, a person made a comment about why communities couldn't hire lifeguards from within their own community, why they have to rely on "imported labor" for lifeguards. And in your case, it looks like your community did exactly that: they created a rule that only residents from Richmond Heights could be a lifeguard at that community center, your neighbor, who was presumably qualified to be a lifeguard, was denied.
I tend to favor your POV, that these types of restrictions on who can be a lifeguard at a particular pool are little more than onerous regulations.
I don't know if they are onerous, but they do seem to be needless. Especially if you're fresh out of lifeguards.
My kid is a lifeguard in our neighborhood. She got the job at age 15.5. There is "licensing"- I don't know if it is state mandated, but it is mandated by the HOA that manages our pools. But it is trivial, and the HOA actually gets you the licensing.
To be hired, you need only pass a drug test, and show that you have good swimming skills (they make you swim laps for 30 minutes straight). At that point they put you through CPR/AED and Lifeguard training. She earns almost $19/hr.
Again, I am not certain if this is a state regulation, but the liability of having people responsible for saving lives who are not trained to save lives could easily destroy a large HOA. So I would not be surprised to see this happening even absent regulations.
Just checked- according to the state of CA, if you advertise lifeguards at your pool, they are required to be certified by the Red Cross. Again, my kid handled this in about 3 days of training, provided by the employer.
This is not to argue one way or the other- of course I don't believe government regulations are the answer. I do think in our litigious society (and I do not think a libertarian society will be LESS litigious) it is likely that a pool operator will ensure their people are trained, otherwise they would be liable if someone died.
That sounds pretty equivalent to what my neighbor experienced.
When I was a lifeguard at 16, you had to take a few classes in CPR and other things at the local YMCA to be 'qualified' but other than that, you just showed up on time and sat in the chair and every other hour declared 'ADULT SWIM' for about 15 minutes.
Pretty easy for a summer job and paid relatively well.
It may very well be that we have a shortage of lifeguards because of restrictions on immigrants, but this article does not prove that.
The article doesn't come CLOSE to proving it. I work in an incredibly diverse business. When I walk from one end of the office... hey, there are two guys from Korea, speaking Korean, there's Qing and Wang from China, look, there's Przemek, he's from Poland... there's that guy from Yugoslavia, don't remember his name. There's Bob from Chicago, there's Alejandra from Apodaca Mexico, hey Aditi, welcome back from Mumbai! Oh, look, that's Long from Vietnam, sorry got to get to a meeting with my Polish boss.
When a work place is full of immigrants, (and yes, I'm not joking about the 7-11 counter) it's really obvious. In all the decades I've been dealing directly or indirectly with lifeguards, the number of foreign born, I could probably count on one hand. The idea that this lifeguard shortage that started after 2022 is because of immigration restrictions is laughable. I'm sorry, but I'm not getting a lot of "immigrant vibes" here.
I mean, ok, maybe the guy with the "hollister" hoodie. But that's about it.
My HOA has 24 pools, and two lakes with boat rentals. They employ over 100 lifeguards, and all of them are highschool kids, managed by college kids. They has a shortage of lifeguards last year because half the country was still crazy and not letting kids out of their houses. My daughter loved it- she made overtime nearly every week.
This year, they have over-staffed, and she is pissed that she will probably make 2/3 what she pulled in last year. To my knowledge there are zero J1's in their staff. They are almost all white kids. This says a lot, because our city is 44% asian (38% white). But in general, those kids are too busy with school to have a job.
Again, where I have seen J1's impacting is in resorts. Ski areas generally employ New Zealand kids who are here during their summer break, or during the breaks they take before university. It would make sense that during the summer, those resorts draw from Europe. When I was at Club Med in mexico, there were several kids from Germany manning the pools.
Reason blames Trump. Commentariat gets mad. More at 11.
Eat shit pussy.
"Shit pussy" doesn't sound very pleasant.
Band name. Some hard grindcore act.
Or maybe it's the name someone goes by when he attends the gathering of the Juggalos every year.
Sarc’s favorite band? He likely mixes Faygo with turpentine to get drunk when he goes to ICP concerts.
An ICP show sounds like a good place to find some shit pussy, I will grant.
More like "the sun rises in the east, Reason blames Trump, commentariat rolls their eyes, sarcasmic grumps.
So, same old, same old?
This article is an insult to our intelligence. The J1 visa is a non-immigrant visa. J1 visa holders by definition are not immigrants.
Autistic boy dragged from his NYC home by cops for a mental evaluation after picking movie 'Heathers' for assignment and telling teacher he identified with murderous main character
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12134423/Autistic-boy-detained-NYC-cops-mental-evaluation-discussing-Heathers-school.html
O'Connor - who told the New York Post the boy is 15 but 'really more like five year old - said his son was being placed under arrest 'for homicidal ideation and a potential terrorist threat' according to a Manhattan Supreme Court complaint.
Why do Nardz and Sevo come to mind?
I saw Oscar the Grouch drunk off his ass on Sesame Street and you cam to mind. You broken drunken pussy. You make personal attacks then cry foul when anyone hits back. You try to start fights in every article’s comments, and then you threaten to kick my ass and spend months hiding from me.
You’re a worthless, alcoholic, lying coward. Now go crawl back under your rock again.
Lifeguard job application:
If you can swim the Rio Grande carrying a kid and misc family baggage – you’re hired.
As my Mexican relatives like to say, they have a difficult time winning in the Olympics, because all of their people who can run, jump or swim . . . .
I thought the purpose of the lifeguard was to notice that someone drowned and to close the pool so they can remove the dead body?
You might be confused with the police. When they see a drowning person they scream "Tread water! Show me your hands! Swim to the shore!" before shooting them dead for failure to obey.
lmao... You mean with the #1 immigration population in the world not a single one wants to do lifeguard duty? What does that really say about immigration?
The shortage is a symptom climate change.
When the West was wetter, all that water running downhill made the Rio so Grande that only the strongest swimmers could cross into Texas, leaving lifeguarding as the natural monopoly of retired Navy seals.
Have a Lifeguard Shortage at Your Pool? Here's a Big, Underreported Reason Why
Uh, Rev. Jerry Falwell Jr. And his wife are recruiting for their revolving-door cabaña? 🙂
ah, Is there no problem that cant be solved by more immigration?
The government should tear down the existing immigration system, and replace it with something along the lines of the following:
People who wish to come here arrive at a point of entry. There, they are given a quick health screening (something along the lines of a COVID/TB test) and an international criminal background check. If the individual is not sick, and is not a known international criminal, then the individual is given permission to enter and a work/residency permit. The government has the individual's biometric information on file. The work/residency permit gives the individual the legal right to work and do business within the country. It is not a green card, it is not citizenship, it is not the right to vote. Just the right to be here legally without being deported.
That individual then can come here and work and create a better life for him/herself and his/her family. The individual is also subject to all the same rules as legal citizens in terms of minimum wage, taxes, and regulations.
It would be up to citizens to decide how much welfare, if any, that these legal residents could receive. If you wanted absolutely no welfare, not even "If you are hit by a bus and bleeding to death on the street you are not allowed to call 911 and use a public ambulance to take you to the hospital because that's welfare", then fine - I would oppose that, but I could accept that compromise if it meant overhauling the entire immigration system. I would favor something like "no welfare at all, except for K-12 education and emergency services". So no subsidized housing, no subsidized student loans for college, no food stamps, but kids get educated and genuinely sick people don't die needlessly.
It would also be up to citizens, via Congress to decide whether and how those work/residency permit holders are naturalized. It can be a very long process, or it can be a quick process, or it can be whatever process that the people want. Because THAT is what the Constitution empowers Congress to do - determine the rules of naturalization. Because citizenship is like joining a club, and it makes sense that members of that club decide the rules for how to join that club. So if you are afraid that all of these work/residency permit holders are going to all vote for Biden, then relax - they won't have the power to vote.
This would also have the benefit of solving the problem of asylum seekers at the border - we all know that most of the claims are denied, and many if not most of the people claiming asylum don't have legitimate claims based on the law and the treaty, but are using the asylum process as a loophole for the immigration system. If migrants could come and go as they please across the border, then they wouldn't have to bother with these loopholes. I am willing to bet a lot of these migrants don't really WANT to fully immigrate here and become American citizens. They just want to work and create a better life for themselves and their families. So let them work here, while their families stay at home in their native countries, and then they can periodically return without being hassled by border cops. No need for fake claims of asylum.
Also, it would entirely cut down on the purely illegal immigration problem, because if there is a legal path for coming here just to work, why try to sneak across the border? The border cops can then actually do their jobs and catch the real criminals sneaking across the border, instead of penniless Guatemalans who are not a threat to anyone.
Are there costs associated with such a system? Of course there are. What are some of the costs?
More migrants would increase demand for public services. So more roads, fire departments, schools, etc. But, if these migrants are coming here *and actually paying the taxes they are supposed to be paying*, then they can partially offset this cost via their own tax revenue.
More migrants would increase labor competition, particularly at the lower ends of the labor pool. Here is a great review article on the effect of immigration on domestic labor.
https://carnegieendowment.org/files/Effect-of-Low-Skilled-Labor-Working-Paper-1.pdf
The bottom line is that immigration is not a 1:1 competition, not even for unskilled labor. That is because for two primary reasons:
1. A lot of migrants when they come here don't compete with American workers for jobs because *they compete with other migrants*.
2. A lot of migrants when they come here don't compete with American workers for jobs because *they create their own jobs* via entrepreneurial activity.
Even the most immigration-skeptic economists predict a modest decrease in domestic unskilled labor wages with increased migration.
But it is a problem, and I think the ultimate solution to this problem is for more Americans not to be at the bottom end of the labor pool in the first place. Let the migrants who have little more than a 6th grade education do the manual unskilled work that only requires a 6th grade education. Why should an American who graduated highschool and received a relatively expensive education (compared to Latin America) be in the competition anyway for such jobs? There will always be some, but there should be fewer than there are now. So the ultimate strategy here is IMO to improve education, so that highschool graduates, by and large, AREN'T competing with unskilled migrant labor that requires minimal education, because they have the talent and the skills to get better jobs.
Give me the elevator pitch, I'm not reading your manifesto.
Let migrants come here, they are subjected to a quick health check/criminal background check, then they get a legal work/residency permit. Not a green card, not citizenship, not a right to vote.
You still have the issue of second-class citizens taking the low-paying jobs. Those bottom-rung jobs are an important for step for the unemployed to begin making a living for themselves.
The way I see it, the migrants would not be citizens at all, 'second class' or otherwise.
As I explain above, when it comes to low-skilled domestic labor, I think the real problem here is a dysfunctional education system which does not produce graduates with the proper skills to compete in the modern economy. Why is it that there are so many people who go through an entire K-12 education and then are only capable of getting a low-skilled labor job that only requires a 6th grade education? THAT is what has to change here.
Without reforming K-12 education to produce super-citizens, you're just relegating people at the bottom to a lifetime of unemployment and living on the dole. We have enough people in this country. What we need is to stop giving them free shit, get them off their fat fucking asses and into the workforce.
I don't think K-12 education should produce "super-citizens". Just citizens that can compete in today's economy. Not everyone is going to get a Ph.D. and that is fine.
We have enough people in this country. What we need is to stop giving them free shit, get them off their fat fucking asses and into the workforce.
Well I don't think there really is such a thing as "enough people".
For citizens who are unskilled and hopeless, I favor a more humanitarian approach. It is an opportunity for voluntary charitable cooperatives to make a difference and to train workers to get them back into the workforce.
We have enough people in this country.
That is not clearly true. All the help wanted signs across the nation are evidence otherwise, as is all the work one can easily see isn’t getting done: roads with potholes, houses that need painting, and on and on.
All the result of paying people too little and giving them too much free shit. Why should anyone paint a house for $15/hr when that's what McDonalds pays a bunch of nose-pickers to flip burgers?
There are millions of people just not working. They are losing their minds from loneliness and chopping bits of themselves off to cope. It's total madness. Productive work fills the day, gives a person purpose, puts money in their pocket, gives them confidence. Or would if it was well-compensated.
There is a libertarian argument to stop sucking stockholder dick, to start paying people more, to make work great again. Reason isn't making it. Are you going to make it?
Excellent work, Mike. I admire your effort because I currently generate more than $36,000 each month from just one simple online business! I am aware that you may start earning a solid life en-10 online with as little as $29,000 and these are just basic internet operations tasks.
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SITE. ——>>> bitecoindollar.com
You're talking w/ a sophist apologist for progressive tyranny in the name of equity, and a lying shill, in that order, by response. So, no , you aren't getting an argument that fits w/in individual rights for getting people to recognize that work is good for them and their communities.
I believe it’s more complicated than simply “pay people more”. Some of the factors that affect how many people we can get out there doing productive stuff:
- Number of people available.
- Amount of money there is to hire people.
- Availability of daycare.
- How much welfare money is competing with employment money.
- How rewarding investing is.
And those are just macro factors. When you focus the microscope down there are all kinds of specific reasons Person A fits for Job X but Person B doesn’t.
The problem with the bottom-rung jobs is that it's illegal for Americans to take them being that minimum wage is more than the jobs are worth. That's why we need illegal immigrants who aren't subject to labor laws.
Well, I do agree with the 'border hawks' when they argue that it is wrong and cruel to have a class of people in this country who are not subject to the ordinary laws and are therefore prey for unscrupulous employers. So I do favor everyone being subject to the same labor laws in this country. And if that leads to undesirable market outcomes, perhaps then it can lead to a conversation about what the labor laws really ought to be in this country.
a class of people in this country who are not subject to the ordinary laws and are therefore prey for unscrupulous employers. So I do favor everyone being subject to the same labor laws in this country.
I’d even go further. I’m OK with laws putting guest workers at a bit of a disadvantage when competing with citizen workers. But being at a bit of a disadvantage is very different from being completely shut out from being legally allowed to be in the game at all.
Why should people be disadvantaged because they’re criminals?
There are a couple of arguments against that position:
1. From a purely libertarian perspective, no person should be given government-enforced priority to a job. The employer should be allowed to hire the person whom they judge best for the job or the person who costs the least to employ.
Of course, there are libertarians who believe it is right to place fellow countrymen above foreigners, but that is a departure from pure libertarianism.
2. The practical argument that there are a lot of jobs going unfilled because Americans aren't interested in taking them. Now, there may be ways to tweak our laws so that Americans are more willing to take the jobs, but the practical reality with the laws we have now is there are a lot of jobs Americans don't want to do.
"the practical reality with the laws we have now is there are a lot of jobs Americans don’t want to do."
Look, I don't want to manually clear sewer lines, but if you pay me $50/hr I will do it. It's just a matter of making unappealing work worth doing. And getting the message out that these shitty jobs exist and the employers are paying more now for us to do them.
I work in a firm that handles large amounts of confidential client data, where work must be accurate, exact, and produced in a timely manner; where some work could have legal ramifications if it's carried out incorrectly. And they start us at McDonalds level of pay. It's completely crazy.
If one could guarantee 0 contact w/ the no integrity, no accountability crowd, sewer work seems pretty fucking appealing.
And then there are the benefits.
The migrants would be paying the taxes that they are supposed to be paying, offsetting their own costs.
The migrants would be here legally and known to the government, so they would not be 'living in the shadows' working in an underground economy.
The migrants would be stimulating economic demand for all sorts of businesses. Migrants have to eat too.
An additional economic effect is that migration frees up economic activity for higher-skilled labor to do more productive things. So if, for example, there is an abundance of lawn care companies in an area, the high-paid executive on the weekend doesn't have to spend his/her time mowing the lawn. He/she can hire a lawn care company to do it, and therefore spend his/her time creating more economic value in his/her profession.
There would be a far reduced need for government raids on businesses to check to see if everyone is legal. There would be less need for this onerous border control apparatus - because the incentives for sneaking across the border would be far, far reduced.
And finally, it is simply an affirmation of the rights of all - the right to associate with whom one pleases. And from a libertarian perspective, that is, or ought to be, the ultimate priority here.
Your policy is roughly in line where I lie. I would see a couple modifications:
1) I would expect such a law to be written specifically with a cap in welfare included and "Severability" requirements. That is, if you over-ride the welfare prescriptions later, it removes all the authorization for immigration. If you want to change the welfare programs for Immigrants, it will have to be passed along with Immigration, so that you are on the record for voting for Open Borders AND welfare for those immigrants.
2) I would also expect immigration to include requirements for a sponsor in the united states. You do not get to come to the country and setup a tent in a park. Before you arrive in country, there needs to be a legal resident who will be held liable if you cannot pay your way. This is an effective way to ensure that there isn't a consistent drum beat of people arguing for welfare for immigrant populations. It also solves for the fact that Americans should still have the right of refusal over public property. If you cannot have an american (or lawful resident) consenting for you to enter, then you should not be allowed to enter.
“It would also be up to citizens, via Congress to decide whether and how those work/residency permit holders are naturalized.”
That *IS* how it works. Yet some just keep pretending congress immigration law doesn’t apply to them and refuse to enforce it. <——- That is the main problem. (see DACA EO)
There is a difference between immigration and naturalization.
Not if you’re a lying asshole like you.
This is especially lazy propaganda from Billy. Jesus Christ dude. "Don't want your kids to drown? Don't want to see wee bodies floating face-down in the pool? Then support unlimited immigration!"
Or maybe they could just, you know, pay the fucking lifeguard more. You need just one. Offer $30 and hour and attach requirements like being in shape, being able to swim, not being a sex offender, etc.
It's really fucking simple. Many of the problems in our market-based society have market-based solutions. When did Reason forget about this? Is it Koch?
If anything was calling for AI observation lifeguarding is it.
AI observation, one meatspace lifeguard on duty.
Making AI that can properly differentiate between frolicking and unauthorized behaviors is a tall order. I can see the system logging a deluge of false positives. People get rowdy in the pool.
Excellent work, Mike. I admire your effort because I currently generate more than $36,000 each month from just one simple online business! I am aware that you may start earning a solid life en-10 online with as little as $29,000 and these are just basic internet operations tasks.
.
.
SITE. ——>>> bitecoindollar.com
You're obsolete, yibem. Most of us don't even see your shit anymore. Tell your masters to start using ChatGPT.
People get rowdy in the pool.
That’s why when the whistle blows at Wild Waves and that woman sitting at the top of the chair shouts at the fat kid, “One more time and you’re out” it’s always in broken English with a thick accent.
Presumably, the issue for AIs would not be too much motion from any given meatsack in the pool, but too little.
The near-constant inflation of rules rigorously enforced against false positives can be left to the meatspace guards same as always.
That lifeguarding came to be filled somewhat heavily by immigrants was, ironically, a product of the country’s last lifeguarding shortage. Twenty years ago, as more pools popped up, immigrants came to address a need not satisfied by the inadequate number of applicants in the states. Everything old is new again.
The number of foreign/immigrant lifeguards I’ve run into over my not-so-short lifespan, yelling at kids to stop running, blowing the whistle on the fat kid doing the cannonball in the shallow end is… carry the zero… zero.
Now, I fully admit I’m giving an entirely anecdotal account. But this idea that the lifeguarding profession was as diverse as the 7-11 counter smells like fermented bullshit.
Seattle, being a *checks notes* sanctuary city doesn’t attribute it to an immigration shortage, it attributes it to pandemic lockdowns.
So the lesson seems to be this: when you fire everyone, don’t expect them to come running back.
Also I bet there were no swimming lessons or lifeguard training for a year or two, reducing the number of qualified teens.
I work at a Walmart near a theme park that also has a water park. Strangely, most of the lifeguards there are Asian or Jamaican.
It's weird, I don't understand the appeal and how they can live on $14 an hour
Theme Parks definitely use/need the J1 visa employees to operate. When my son worked at a Six Flags when he was younger they had what they called "foreign nationals" who came to work for the summer, and apparently the park would not have been able to operate without them as the jobs could not be filled by solely using local kids (the park is in a rural area, at minimum a 30 minute ride from heavily populated suburbs) due to the low wages.
Last time I checked, there had been a wave of Slavic immigration to the Lis Angeles area for over twenty years. (I met many if them while working as an extra in TV and movie productions.)
Lack of immigrants is not a problem.
Complete globalist bullshit from a globalist cuck. Most immigrants probably don’t even swim, much less qualify to be a lifeguard.
Well I for one am grateful that Reason has identified yet another grave threat to liberty here. The lifeguard crisis will require unleashing the full force of the new Koch libertarians on par with their relentless defense of food trucks.
Meanwhile this guy is standing up for principles as well but where will Shackford stand on the issue?
https://jonathanturley.org/2023/05/29/no-laughing-matter-john-cleese-holds-line-against-calls-to-cancel-scene-in-life-of-brian/
In The Life of Brian, the scene involves “Stan” who announces that he wants to be a woman named Loretta and have babies. Activists objected that it made fun of transgender people and demanded that it be cut from the film.
The scene shows Stan declaring “I want to be a woman… It’s my right as a man. I want to have babies… It’s every man’s right to have babies if he wants them.” After Cleese’s protest, the character snaps, “Don’t you oppress me!”
Some reported that Cleese had agreed to cut the scene. However, Cleese tweeted out a correction of the “misreporting.”
An Outlaw says:May 29, 2023 at 2:27 PM
“When Comedy is Outlawed, Only Comedians will be Outlaws”
If so, then there’s a lot of Clowns in Washington D.C. in Big Trouble.
“Comedians don’t kill People, People kill People”
Just ask; Robin Williams,Phil Hartman, Andy Kaufman, and Lenny Bruce …
They’re all laughing at you now Kid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlo7YZW8vPA&t=6s
Holy shit, the comments there were even worse than the ones here!
A free market solution would be to pay lifeguards more, not import workers from other countries willing to work for low wages
The other thing is companies could set up programs to train people in lifeguarding in inner city neighborhoods where unemployment is high. For whatever reason, many urban blacks can't swim, so programs like this would both potentially provide a source of labor and help the community (and push a bigger demand for pools and pool products)
And that list of "Jobs Americans Won't Do" keeps conveniently expanding.
another sad unintended consequence: many of the eastern European lifeguards were unbelievably hot... and not we don't get to enjoy their presence in red two pieces in our country.
Reason, Yeah Biden sucks, but it is all Trump’s fault. Everyday, every week, every month. TDS is alive and real.
Reason is a joke.
The best think about Reason is the spambots, at least they are not super partisan.
I don't think, "We need more immigrants to staff our pools." sends the message you think it sends.
15 million swim across the Rio Grande but we can't get a decent life guard out of that bunch, i.e. now the illegals won't work for depressed wages either?
They're too busy running millions of trans-national food truck franchises and helming millions of billion-dollar tech startups.
why there is suddenly a dearth of qualified applicants: immigration restrictions.
Are you effing kidding me? You'd have to be an idiot to believe the line that life-guarding is one of those "jobs Americans won't do."
My daughter wanted to be a lifeguard last year and the training company, to which she was referred by the YMCA, was a scam -- canceled the class on her, and we were never able to get a refund. The training turned out to be essentially impossible for her to get. Plenty of American-born teens would love to be lifeguards, but apparently there's a dearth of opportunities for them to get qualified.
Geez, everything is Trump's fault according to 'reason.' But what's the problem? Just go to a Home Depot parking lot and hire Jose from Oaxaca. He swam across the Rio Grande, didn't he?
Excellent work, Mike. I admire your effort because I currently generate more than $36,000 each month from just one simple online business! I am aware that you may start earning a solid life en-10 online with as little as $29,000 and these are just basic internet operations tasks.
.
.
SITE. ——>>> bitecoindollar.com
And Alvin Bragg as Grimace.