NYC May Force Rich People To Pay Higher Parking Fines Than the Poor
A pilot proposal to levy civil fines based on income is being considered by the City Council.

Should New York City force rich people to pay higher parking tickets than poor people? That's the question at the heart of a bill before the City Council right now.
City Councilmember Justin Brannan, who represents Bay Ridge, Dyker Heights, Bensonhurst, and Bath Beach (all in south Brooklyn), is proposing the creation of a pilot program to implement a day-fine system for civil offenses. Day-fine systems are used in several European countries and have been tried stateside in places as disparate as Maricopa County, Arizona, and—briefly, in the 1980s—the New York borough of Staten Island.
"First, the court sentences the offender to a certain number of day-fine units (e.g., 15, 60, 120 units) according to the gravity of the offense, but without regard to his or her means," explained the Vera Institute of Justice's Judith Greene in a 1990 report assessing the efficacy of Staten Island's program. "Then the value of each unit is set at a share of the offender's daily income (hence the name 'day fine'), and the total fine amount is determined by simple multiplication."
"During [Michael] Bloomberg's time as mayor of NYC, fines became just another way to raise revenue rather than a way to deter or change bad behavior," Brannan tells Reason. "Fine amounts are arbitrary as it is so why should a public school teacher and a billionaire pay the same fine? For instance, a $115 ticket for a working family of four could be a real hardship whereas a $115 ticket for an individual making $500K is a joke and does absolutely nothing to change their behavior."
Brannan is just proposing a pilot program and says many of the details have yet to be worked out, but he anticipates only applying higher fines to people making over $500,000 in income annually—who he deems as the 1 percent. As for the poorer people who receive fines, lower amounts might mean they're more likely to pay their tickets in full. "For once, this is about the little guy," he says, adding that he's "tired of working families and the middle class getting squeezed."
It's an interesting idea, but it raises questions of efficacy, fairness, and whether the city would actually be able to assess such fines at scale.
"Overall, the 'enforcement rate' for fine sentences during the pilot year appears very strong," wrote Greene of Staten Island's experiment. "The bulk of fines imposed have been paid in full; 84 percent of fined offenders have been successfully 'punished' (that is, they have paid, or have been returned to court and resentenced appropriately)."
It's hard to say whether a larger, citywide program would be as effective as the small-scale one in Staten Island, which was designed essentially to give judges another sentencing tool as part of reform efforts to divert people away from incarceration and applied only to felonies and misdemeanors, not civil offenses. Perhaps state-capacity libertarians would be optimistic about this new program, but the rest of us might recoil, anticipating that bureaucrats will botch this or that those most affected will find means of evading it.
"This isn't about class warfare—it's just about fairness," Brannan tells me.
But it's arguably a bit of both.
On one hand, the point about fines being made proportional is a compelling one. On the other, one of the benefits of being rich—one reason I am personally motivated to get rich—is that the little things don't hurt as much. A $200 speeding ticket bothers me a bit now, but I want to have enough excess so that such amounts feel trivial. Other things we buy, like food and clothing and utilities to power our homes, aren't subject to a sliding scale of price based on income. What benefit to being rich would there be if everything was priced in proportion to how much we earn?
Rich New Yorkers aren't just cash cows who can be exploited without consequence; after all, 42.5 percent of all city income tax was paid by the 1 percent—or households earning $900,000-plus annually. Capital flight isn't a far-off risk, but a post-pandemic reality: 300,000 New Yorkers fled the city during the early days of the coronavirus pandemic (along with their $21 billion in reportable income), a hefty chunk of change never to return. Snowbirding—and the creative tax filing that sometimes accompanies it—is a time-honored New York City tradition; why stay in a city that tries to get its cut of every last dollar when you could establish Florida residency or flit back and forth between the two? ("A Snowbird Must Carefully Plan Its Flight," reads a headline from The CPA Journal, predictably naming Florida and New York in its subheading.)
But city officials are ostensibly balancing the risk of driving the rich away with their goal of upping revenue. The city's Independent Budget Office reports a roughly $2 billion budget shortfall since 2017 from unpaid fines. Half of that is due to parking violations and speeding or running red lights—all of which would likely be subject to the day-fine proposal—but $627 million comes from Department of Buildings violations and the like. So it's not as though the day-fine program, if it became law, would fully fix that shortfall.
Nor do city officials know precisely how much of a beating the rich will take before Central Park Westers long for the shimmering waters of Florida.
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How these are not wildly illegal is lost on me.
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Equal protection under the laws. Disparate impact. Discrimination on the basis of race. Probably bills of attainder.
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|”How these are not wildly illegal is lost on me.”| That’s because, Comrade, either you have not read the Manifesto, or worse, because you purposely reject it’s wise precepts. That latter possibility requires further evaluation, and possibly some re-education.
|”Other things we buy, like food and clothing and utilities to power our homes, aren’t subject to a sliding scale of price based on income. What benefit to being rich would there be if everything was priced in proportion to how much we earn?”| Perhaps they should be?
I like to play with numbers in my spare time; if you don’t like math, or better yet, think it’s “racist”, skip straight to the last paragraph and don’t wade through the mundane equations below.
As you follow the equations below, unless you consider them to be racist, I’m sure you can appreciate the “justice and fairness” of it all. The explanation below is too long and complicated for anyone who really needs to have it explained to actually comprehend it, but its a fun exercise anyway.
Work Year – 2080 hours (actually a lot more than that for high earners, but that just confuses things)
Minimum Wage Worker (even at $15.00/hr.) = 2080 x $15.00 = $31,200 annual income for MWW (earned income credit and other safety net payouts make this more than it would seem, but that also just confuses things) therefore = $31,200/12 = monthly income of $2600 [per month being how most people budget and live].
Professional earned income assumed to be $250,000, or $400,000 for a two worker family = monthly income of $20,833 — $33,333 (gross, not net of progressive income tax, but that’s OK because the greedy bastards get too much anyway!)
NFL star player income ~$5,000,000/year or monthly income of $416,667 (again gross, not net income or AGI – but arguably anyone who makes that much should be hanged rather than fined!)
Assume average current fine, plus court costs, of running a red light is $120 (leaving out the really high-binding places that with surcharges easily come up to or even over $335!). For purposes of calculations, use $200 ($120 plus “court costs” and “special assessments” [traffic safety school, etc.]) as the “average cost” of a red light ticket.
Also, let’s also consider the price of a pound of ribeye steak, just to spread the consideration of “leveling” a little wider than the actions of a traffic scofflaw.
MWW fine % monthly income: $200/$2600 = 7.69% MWW % for ribeye steak: $23.00/$2600 = 0.88% of monthly inc.
Now let’s apply these across the board to the greedy bastards who make too much anyway: Professional red light ticket: 7.69% of $20,833 — $33,333 gives a red light fine to a profess. family of $1,602 — $2,563 (that’ll teach those greedy bastards to run red lights, won’t it?) Professional ribeye cost: 0.88% of $20,833 — $33,333 gives a cost for a pound of steak to the doctor and his lawyer wife of a mere $183.33 — $293.33 per pound (think the decreased sales might hurt cattle farmers, or do we want them out of business anyway)?
For the NFL star, he’ll pay: 7.69% of $416,667 = $32,042 for running a red light, and $3,667 for a pound of ribeye (that should be some really prime meat!
last paragraph for those who don’t like math Why would this all make sense? Remember Comrade, “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need.”
The purpose of fines is punitive, so it does make sense to charge the rich more, to make it hurt their pocketbook when they park a car in a red zone- or even in front of a driveway of a fire station.
Agreed. Prices (which are used for transactions which are mutually beneficial) should not be fixed to income (or anything else), but fines are intended to penalize and discourage behavior, so fixing them to income makes sense.
That being said, there are all sorts of ways where such a policy could go wrong: 1. Government overreach in determining income (administrative bloat is practically guaranteed) 2. Government errors (e.g. fraud) resulting in certain people being under-penalized 3. Government errors (e.g. on-paper income which isn’t actually realized) resulting in certain people being over-penalized
Mistakes will definitely be made, but those mistakes could conceivably be better than the status quo.
The thing that is absolutely certain, however, is that this policy definitely won’t bring in as much extra income as its proponents suggest that it will.
I agree the idea is compelling and sensible. But the problem is that the execution will rely on the competence of government.
In an ideal world, if this could be done right, I'd be in favor of it. I don't trust it will be so I have to stand in opposition to it.
So many problems with this proposal.
Let's begin with how the fuck do you determine "daily income"? Because a lot of people who could be called rich don't make very much income.
So is it income? Or is it income and capital gains? And is it NY State income or federal income or... this all gets quite tricky, especially with high net worth people. It's not just "Daily fine units multiplied by income".
However they do this, you know it'll cause some perverse incentive. It's bad enough to even consider the concept of having to open your books to the courts because of a simple parking fine, we all know what NY will do if the prosecutor doesn't like you and thinks they can score political points by rifling through your records to find technicalities they can prosecute.
What about the concept of Equality Before the Law? I'm not rich, but I've always suspected that the "rich", however you want to define them, get taxed at higher rates because they are an unpopular minority. Is the effort being proposed here about "justice"? Or is it just more political pandering to the non-rich majority?
They get taxed at higher rates for two reasons: That's where the money is, and they have the lawyers and accountants to evade taxes, so you have to squeeze harder to get any blood.
And who figures out your income? Is it the IRS? An organization that can and does carry out political agendas? Do they start counting your unrealized gains? Do they just use a Forbes estimation of your networth? Do they have to audit every property to determine the value of everything you own, including your vehicles?
Not to mention that tax records are supposed to be private anyway.
People with high net worth don’t necessarily have high incomes.
They might even be claiming a loss. Do they get a negative fine in that case?
That's an interesting and rather socialistic notion, but since you aver it's OK to apply to punishments (I assume you aren't endorsing it for pricing consumer goods), how would you apportion length of incarceration in penal sentencing?
The purpose of fines is punitive
Incorrect. The purpose of these fines is to raise money.
The purpose of day-fines in Europe is not punitive. Or not more so than any fine. It is to equalize the burden of the fine on people - when one thing is common to everyone (a day lost is 24 hours for everyone) but the means of settling the fine (income - esp absolute) is not. IDK where it is being used for a parking fine. It is used in Europe to prevent IMPRISONMENT. ie sentenced to 30 days in jail - and/or 30 days income. One year in jail - one year income. Those work really really well to keep incarceration rates very low in Europe (maybe 1/4 of ours).
Parking fines are not imprisonment. They are not taking away days out of someone's life that cannot be recovered. They are simply a means of revenue generation. Same as excise taxes on 'bad behaviors' - eg smoking etc. IMO - those sorts of taxes are all shit because they encourage the polity to be corrupt and for pols to pander to you - a fine on your head you immoral evil nasty person but not on angelic me. Plus - the volume of that sort of nickel and dime shit is basically unlimited - so it can't be implemented without a tyrannical bureaucracy. Which of course is the whole point.
A bit of a tangent:
On the one hand, "a day lost is 24 hours for everyone". On the other hand, I can't help remembering the t-shirt that says "Don't mess with old people. Life in prison is no longer a deterrent."
"The purpose of prison sentences is punitive, so it makes sense to impose longer sentences on younger people for the same crime." - Michael Ejercito
it makes sense to impose longer sentences on younger people for the same crime.
Anyone who doesn’t understand the next step in this experiment is a sentencing gradient based on skin tone is not paying attention.
Skin color is the most important thing
True, that would be silly. But we aren't talking about "everything", we're talking about a specific kind of fine.
So unless you think that parking in front of a fire hydrant should be a "service fee" rather then a "punishing fine", then yeah, this is good.
Same crime, same punishment. One shouldn't be punished based on income.
Hey, if you want to argue in favor of just putting super-expensive parking meters in no-park zones, then argue that.
But if you aren't, then you should be able to admit that the status quo does not equally deter bad behavior from the rich and poor alike.
If that were true, a whole lot of BLM members would be in jail with the DC tourists from J6.
Hint: They already are. A lot of blue cities give all kinds of relief and forgiveness to poor people who rack up a lot of parking tickets. I remember a story from back in the 90s where some woman pleaded poverty and had something like over 100 parking tickets forgiven.
They give relief to UPS and Fed Ex too. You might call it a volume discount.
I thought self-described libertarians were in favor of codifying policies so that you don't have to rely on the mercy of individual judgement?
I don't really have a problem with codifying inequality. Say the quiet part out loud, for chrissakes.
Rich New Yorkers aren't just cash cows who can be exploited without consequence; after all, 42.5 percent of all city income tax was paid by the 1 percent—or households earning $900,000-plus annually. Capital flight isn't a far-off risk, but a post-pandemic reality:
Oh boofuckinghoo. This is precisely why munis should not be levying income taxes but land value taxes.
The former is intrusive as hell for no purpose and creates deliberate distortions.
The latter is not at all intrusive and if someone doesn't want to pay the land value tax they can sell the property to someone who can generate enough income so that that tax is simply a cost of doing business. If land value taxes are too high, then land will simply sit vacant - owned by the muni because foreclosed on with no sale - and fail to deliver any land value taxes. The land won't 'run away'.
Didn't you just make the obvious point of the statement?
Ever hear of "prop-13"?
That's a very European idea.
Didn't someone once say it's the Republican's that are trying to make us like Europe?
Well it's only a bad thing when Republicans do it.
Good.
If you're rich enough, a $100 ticket is just the price for parking, not a punishment
Yes, you see wealthy people throwing $100 bills in the gutter because they got wrinkled.
Base the fine on the Blue Book value of the vehicle parked in front of the fire hydrant? Benz owner pays more than beater owner.
Ha. Or maybe the douchier the person the higher the fine. You know, the tools that think they can just park wherever the F they want because they're just so much more important than everyone else.
Fine values based on Blue Book value of the vehicle strikes me as quite doable. It would only work for certain kinds of fines (parking tickets and speeding tickets), but it would limit the surveillance intrusiveness and the mitigate the worst of the problems at the top and bottom of the scale.
"Then the value of each unit is set at a share of the offender's daily income (hence the name 'day fine'), and the total fine amount is determined by simple multiplication."
And people mock Hoosiers for the 'pi = 3 legislation' legend.
"Let's see, 120 credits, at $1/yr. comes to just under $0.33. Here you go." [slides quarter and dime over counter] "Keep the change." - Pres. DJT
So much for equal protection under the law. I wonder how it would sound if NYC said, "If you're convicted of a crime you'll spend twice as long in prison if you're rich than you will if you're poor."
Present trends continuing, that might just go over pretty well.
I think the point is that the current situation is exactly the opposite. Poor people can't pay the fine and end up in jail while richer people could, in theory, pay the same fine daily without even noticing it, and thus rarely end up in jail for such petty "crimes".
An income-based fine seeks to make the punitive impact of the fine equivalent across income brackets. Whether it is a good idea or not, I'm on the fence. Probably we should start with removing the idea of fines as a revenue source first, and then maybe come back and reconsider the rest.
It's an oxymoron, a mott-and-bailey. I strongly doubt the problem with NYC is that it's full of mult-millionaires illegally parking their own cars to the point that the relatively few minimum wage workers can't find a place to park at Wendy's when they show up for their shift.
If the fine is punitive it should be fixed to the crime and appropriately high to generally discourage it. If it's not generally discouraging it, then it's not generally punitive.
Why would poor people pay the fine when they aren't even charged?
Based on the comments, it seems clear that Amerikans are eagerly willing to embrace this insanity, just like you've eagerly embraced every OTHER insanity thus far. Might I therefore suggest you ALSO consider basing the amount of the fines on a person's gender & race? White heterosexual males would, of course, pay the most. Or you can base the value of the fine on how a person votes, with anyone who doesn't vote demonrat paying the max. Or you can base it on whether the person took the experimental jab or not, with those who didn't, of course, paying the maximum amount. While you people mull all these fabulous options, allow me to sell-off all my assets, transfer my money, and get the fook out of this collapsing nation of idiots ..while the gettin's still good.
Even if this is a "collapsing nation of idiots", where do you plan to go?
I had a boss who liked to say that for all the US's faults, we're still the best car in the junkyard. Every day, I wonder if that's still true - but I haven't found anyplace that's obviously better yet.
I’m hoping that staying out of big cities will suffice for now.
Holy Crap! I think I've stumbled in to the Daily Worker's commentary board.
I can see this putting poor people who make most or all of their income "off the books" in a bind. Do you report your real income and risk trouble with the IRS and state and local tax authorities? Or do you claim you don't owe a fine because you have zero income, and risk a perjury charge?
If a person is sentenced to a number of days in jail, that's fair because people generally have the same life expectancy, or at least no one lives 1000 times longer than the average person. It "hurts" about the same amount. But with monetary fines, some people do make 1000 times the average or more. Ten days in jail or ten days pay, seems fair.
Someday, instead of putting people behind bars, they’ll just reset your control chip so that you die a few months or years sooner.
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"Get 'em! They're rich!"
Just bring back flogging. Pain feels the same to everyone.
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This will result in many of the wealthy fleeing New York City
At least the wealthy don't have to rely upon the availability of U-Haul trucks to get out. But exit taxes - NY State really needs to implement exit taxes (and California).
Why there is a single "rich" person left in the state (let alone the city) of New York is an ongoing mystery.
Some can't escape the necessity of being near the businesses they work for or own. Information tech advances might change that soon.
Unless that business is selling something to New Yorkers, why not move the whole business to a less expensive and saner area?
Since when can anyone remotely poor afford to park in NYC?
It's poor people who have to park illegally.
Where is the discussion about how NYC will reduce its frivolous expenses instead of seeking new revenue sources?