'Assault Weapon' Bans Look More Legally Vulnerable Than Ever
A preliminary injunction in Illinois may signal the demise of a long-running public policy fraud.

Three days after Washington became the 10th state to enact an "assault weapon" ban, a federal judge temporarily blocked enforcement of a similar law in Illinois. That decision, which was published last Friday, may signal the demise of a long-running public policy fraud that falsely depicts an arbitrarily defined category of semi-automatic rifles as good for nothing but mass murder.
"Assault weapon" bans, which typically cover specific models along with features such as adjustable stocks, pistol grips, flash suppressors, and barrel shrouds, have always been logically dubious. And under the constitutional test that the Supreme Court recently established, they look more legally vulnerable than ever.
These laws never made much sense. With or without the features that states such as Washington and Illinois have deemed intolerable, a rifle fires the same ammunition at the same rate with the same muzzle velocity.
Even President Joe Biden, who wants Congress to revive the federal "assault weapon" ban that expired in 2004, has conceded that the law left would-be killers with plenty of alternatives that were "just as deadly." And contrary to the claim that the rifles targeted by this sort of legislation are the "weapon of choice" in mass shootings, handguns account for more than three-quarters of the firearms used in such crimes and an even larger share of the firearms used in gun homicides generally.
The Supreme Court's precedents suggest that "assault weapon" bans are unconstitutional as well as illogical. The Court has said the Second Amendment applies to firearms that are commonly used for lawful purposes, and last June it explicitly rejected the sort of "interest-balancing" test that lower courts had previously used to uphold "assault weapon" bans.
Instead of weighing a law's purported public safety benefits against the burdens it imposes, the justices said, courts should ask whether it is "consistent with this Nation's tradition of firearm regulation." In a federal lawsuit they filed immediately after Washington enacted its "assault weapon" ban last week, the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) and the Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC) argue that the state cannot meet that test.
"The only historical tradition that can remove a firearm from the Second Amendment's protective scope," the complaint says, is "the tradition of banning dangerous and unusual weapons." But that category does not include "arms that are in common use" for legal purposes, "as the firearms Washington has banned unquestionably are."
The SAF and the FPC note that AR-15-style rifles covered by Washington's law "are among the most popular firearms in the nation, and they are owned by millions of Americans." They cite survey data indicating that "about 24.6 million Americans have owned AR-15 or similar modern semiautomatic rifles."
The SAF and the FPC made the same argument in Illinois, and U.S. District Judge Stephen P. McGlynn found it persuasive. In granting a preliminary injunction against that state's "assault weapon" ban, McGlynn concluded that the law was probably inconsistent with the right to keep and bear arms, adding that Illinois legislators seem to have ignored that likelihood and the Supreme Court decisions underlying it.
In the survey cited by the SAF and the FPC, two-thirds of the respondents who reported owning AR-15-style rifles said they used them for recreational target shooting, while half mentioned hunting and a third mentioned competitive shooting. Sixty-two percent said they used the rifles for home defense, and 35 percent cited defense outside the home.
Washington Gov. Jay Inslee, a Democrat, nevertheless insists these rifles "have no reason other than mass murder," because "their only purpose is to kill humans as rapidly as possible in large numbers." Illinois Senate President Don Harmon (D–Oak Park) likewise maintains that killing innocent people is the "only intent" of the rifles his state banned.
Ascribing intent to inanimate objects reflects the magical thinking of politicians who argue that certain guns are inherently evil. That position is plainly at odds with a reality that courts may no longer be able to ignore.
© Copyright 2023 by Creators Syndicate Inc.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
I am making a good salary from home $6580-$7065/week , which is amazing under a year ago I was jobless in a horrible economy. I thank God every day I was blessed with these instructions and now it’s my duty to pay it forward and share it with Everyone,
🙂 AND GOOD LUCK.:)
Here is I started.……......>> http://WWW.RICHEPAY.COM
The case is known as Hartford v. Ferguson. Joining SAF are the Firearms Policy Coalition, Sporting Systems, a Hazel Dell retailer, and three private citizens
You would think a ban on certain types of rifles might attract the attention of the National Rifle Association. I guess they're too busy fund-raising to pay attention to such things?
"You would think a ban on certain types of rifles might attract the attention of the National Rifle Association. I guess they’re too busy fund-raising to pay attention to such things?"
While the SAF and other plaintiffs had their Complaint ready for filing immediately upon the passing of the legislation, the NRA is probably just now learning of the new gun ban in these states.
Although previously the NRA existed to teach gun safety and work to make sure citizen's 2nd Amendment rights were not violated, they now are devoted solely to fundraising and the scheduling of their Board members' summer vacations. They will take a look at it upon their return and assign their attorney's intern the job of writing a supporting brief (I just hope they remember to tell the intern which side they wish to support).
It's easy to dump on the NRA, isn't it CindyF? Are you a voting member, and if so, have you voted for directors?
They have way too many directors.
While everyone on Reason seems to be a senior editor.
Yes, it is. I know plenty of people who have quit the NRA, or at least stopped sending them money. This is not because the NRA is too "extreme", it's because they're seen as a bunch of corrupt, squishy surrender monkeys. This dates back at least to the 80s and the NRA's endorsement of FOPA. In more recent years, their defense of RKBA has widely been seen as somewhat less than robust. They shied away from court cases that might strengthen protections, and only jumped on the Heller bandwagon once the case was already starting to look like a winner. Revelations that their budget seems keyed more to providing a lavish lifestyle for senior executives than actually defending gun rights haven't exactly done much to rehabilitate their image.
Why hasn't a second amendment absolutist made the case for large caliber machine gun, motar, howitzer, GAU gattling guns, bazooka, etc. to be available at Dick's without a permit or license. If the right to bear arms (which shall not be infringed) is absolute, and if the the first half of the amendment means literally nothing, why can't I buy a grenade? Why is it illegal to make pipe bombs in my basement? What is the rationale?
Most people don't want pickup trucks sold with .50 caliber machine gun mounted in turrets in the bed, even as a pricey option. Everyone recognizes there is *some* limit. The only argument is where that limit is. You cannot simultaneously claim that every law restricting gun ownership rights violates the 2nd amendment unless you follow through. Either there is a limit or there isn't. If there *is* a limit, why can't it even be discussed?
It's not that complicated. The test for banning any types of arms is are they in common use by Americans for lawful purposes. If they are, they are protected under the 2nd Amendment. Arms that are both dangerous AND unusual may be banned or they may be regulated under the NFA. Most of your comment is simply hyperbole. I've not seen anyone make the case for unrestricted access to artillery, even though there are those types of weapons in private ownership. If people want to debate the issues, they should educate themselves about those issues first.
I'm not sure there should be a limit. I'll just point out that back in the day, it was perfectly legal for private citizens to buy warships, complete with cannons. Restrictions on explosives have gotten pretty ridiculous. What would have once been regarded as merely curious kids or largely harmless kooks are now denounced as terrorists and threats to the nation.
About the only limit I'm sure I can support is stiff criminal penalties and civil liability for those who injure others or damage their property through either malice or negligence.
"....the case for large caliber machine gun, motar, howitzer, GAU gattling guns, bazooka, etc. to be available"
And today's logical fallacy is called false equivocation:
"This fallacy is committed when one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show equivalence, especially in order of magnitude, when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result. False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence does not bear scrutiny because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors."
IOW, both rocket propelled grenades and rifles kill people; so regardless of the inherent differences in magnitude between the two, let's treat them the same; that is what you do when you say "well, you can't have a cannon, so it only stands to reason you shouldn't have X rifle either."
NRA - Negotiate Rights Away
The way the NRA behaved leading up to the '94 AWB will never be forgotten or forgiven.
The last couple years have exposed more corruption, so I give my money to SAF and GOA.
The NRA is one of the plaintiffs in the IL case. I find it odd that, between the SAF, FPC, NSSF, various State Firearm and Shooting Sports Foundations, and organizations with more direct and actionable grievances, people complain about one organization not piling on with less directly actionable grievances. Even if the plaintiffs’ motions are premised on the actions the one organization successfully litigated.
In that vein, I note a distinct absence of the much-ballyhooed-around-these-parts GOA from both cases. Good thing they’re taking member dollars to sit these cases out.
Yeah. They used to have a specific lobbying effort called "The Second Amendment Task Force".
Used to.
The NRA is, for the most part, AWOL; used to support them, until I learned that all the money went to pay for LaPierre's suits and [self inflicted] legal defense. And the worthless as tits-on-a-bore-hog board will do nothing about it.
Yeah, they’re an easy target but I doubt they’re much different from any other lobby organization – what, you think the Brady Bunch isn’t mostly about shuffling money to key players? Puh-leez.
No, with the revelations I largely gave up and have shifted to FPC but the NRA is still the main distraction of pols who want to destroy that particular vine of a Virginia creeper while ignoring the many now independent tendrils that are just now getting their time in the sun.
Maybe kudzu would be a better analogy. Once favored and fostered by government and now hated by many there. Of course one could say the same about milk, butter, steak, etc.
Those of us with long memories recall when the GOA took _Heller_ to the Supreme Court in 2008 over the NRA's objections, and then the NRA tried to steal the credit for the GOA's win. And this wasn't just a one-time mistake. The NRA supported gun control acts in 1968 and 1986.
IIRC, Heller was brought by SAF, not GOA.
Edit: Looks like we're both wrong. It was brought by Robert A. Levy, who was a Cato Instititue fellow at the time, and is also associated with the Institute for Justice, though it isn't clear to me if he were associated with them at the time.
They're so broke they can't pay attention.
Another low IQ high school outsider, I take it?
Carry on little boy. Give us your hormone ridden rage. 🙂
"Washington Gov. Jay Inslee, a Democrat, nevertheless insists these rifles "have no reason other than mass murder," because "their only purpose is to kill humans as rapidly as possible in large numbers." Illinois Senate President Don Harmon (D–Oak Park) likewise maintains that killing innocent people is the "only intent" of the rifles his state banned."
Gosh. I must be using mine wrong then. I mostly use mine to dispatch armadillos that are burrowing holes in fields and undermining fenceposts and such. I could use something larger, like my .270 or .308, but since armadillos are mostly nocturnal, the somewhat quieter .223 is a nod to my neighbors sleeping. I've tried .22LR, too, but it doesn't drop a "dildo".
“Washington Gov. Jay Inslee, a Democrat, nevertheless insists these rifles “have no reason other than mass murder,” because “their only purpose is to kill humans as rapidly as possible in large numbers.” Illinois Senate President Don Harmon (D–Oak Park) likewise maintains that killing innocent people is the “only intent” of the rifles his state banned.”
1) WA state didn't ban anything other than new sales
2) WA state police cruisers all have AR-15's. They must be bent on mass murdering the citizenry.
Had a friend from Arkansas who kept an AR with him on the tractor for armadillo pest control. He said any other rifle would shake itself out of firing condition while on the ride. He wouldn't use a .22 because he said the bullets would just bounce off from the armadillo's side.
He said any other rifle would shake itself out of firing condition while on the ride.
In fairness, the rifle was ultimately designed with a button to account for the fact that it, allegedly, doesn't go into battery with 100% fidelity in the first place.
From what I've read, this was more a problem with poor ammunition quality with the early generations of M16s than a problem with the rifle itself.
The US military is infamous for the shitty ammunition we use and for vastly overpaying for it. I remember we discussed this one time while being rodded off the line, having to declare 'no brass, no ammo Sergeant'. 'Why would I steal government ammo when I could get much better ammo cheaply at any sporting goods store?' My Sergeant told me to stop being a smart ass and to unass his firing line, but he was laughing at the time too.
My last salary was $8750 just ecom worked 12 hours a week. My neighbor has long found an estimate of $16,000″ (u113 and works about 20 hours for seven days…I can’t believe how easy was after
trying the info… payusadollars
The forward assist is more to break through carbon buildup after prolonged usage without cleaning (e.g. in a drawn out firefight). This would be a problem with any direct blowback gas operated system like the M-16. The saying is the M-16 eats where it shits. Newer rifles use an indirect system where the gas operates a rod that then engages and moves the bolt, cutting down on gas blowback in the chamber.
The forward assist was specifically designed to solve a problem the M-16 didn’t have until the Army created it. Literally a solution in search of a problem. In icy conditions the BCG in the FAL can get stuck in the rearward position, effectively preventing the rifle from being broken down and restored to function. Supposedly, even mortaring was as likely to make the problem worse as fix it. The Navy went with the M-16 without the FA, but due to the concern mentioned, the Army insisted on the FA. When they fed it substandard ammo, they discovered that the FA could recover some, but not all of the function. Other battle rifles, shotguns, and handguns, of arguably better overall (non-specific) design (both before and after the M-16), whether through bolt handles, forward charging action, better or worse tolerances, cleaner methods of operation, etc. don’t incur either problem.
‘Better to need and not have than to have and not need’, unless of course, ‘best to not need to begin with’ has been the standard for 3/4 of a century prior. Legions upon legions of SCARs, AUGs, Tavors, G3s, M1s, MP5s, AKs, StG44s, FALs, M249s, M4s, M60s, MG42s, 1911s, Beretta 92s… all running with ammo covered in all the sand, blood, and guts between the Falkland Islands and Omaha Beach running through them, all firing on powder formulated and loaded by goat fuckers anywhere from Colombia to Vietnam but, for some reason, the M16 and the FA are the best thing ever invented and to have an AR without an FA is a step backwards in engineering.
Uhm the M-4 is an M-16, has forward assist, and jams far more often than the M-16, largely due to the buffer spring being to short. The exact same problem the CAR-15 had. And I've cleared a few jams in my day. The forward assist is important. Wouldn't want to go into a firefight without one.
I've put a 1000+ rounds down range in a single setting with an M16A2, after three days in the field, firing both blank and live rounds, in 12 degree air temperatures and 90% humidity. After that, you'll never convince me that the FA is not a necessary item. Especially if I had to rely on it for my life rather than in training.
Uhm the M-4 is an M-16
My fault for lack of clarity. The Colt M4 is an M-16 clone/variant that “needs” an FA, the Benelli M4 is not.
Wouldn’t want to go into a firefight without one.
Now tell me you’d rather go into battle with a weapon that necessitates a better manual of arms than to go into battle with a weapon that doesn’t.
I’ve put a 1000+ rounds down range in a single setting with an M16A2
You do realize that 1,000+ MRBF/S is utterly unnoteworthy in both the pistol and MG categories of weapons, right?
Again, I’m not inherently against the M-16 or the FA. They are what they are. I’m against the blind ideology that a methanol-fueled V-12 engine with a hand crank to restart it when the fuel mixture gets off and the engine stalls is inherently superior under any and all conditions to a “modern” diesel engine that runs for 500K+ engine hours on everything from kerosene to french fry oil without stalling… because the diesel engine needs an electric starter… once.
My fault for lack of clarity. The Colt M4 is an M-16 clone/variant that “needs” an FA, the Benelli M4 is not.
This microcosm could not be more apt. I'm sure you didn't mean "There is only one, true M4 and it has a forward assist. All others are failed knockoffs." but because of the forward assist (of all fucking things!) you appear to have conceptualized it as such. The FA is a more critical firearm component than the Benelli M4.
The F/A was created because the Army changed the load. As an ancient IIRC the fault was introduced with a load change from extruded powder to a faster ball powder that left more residue in the direct impingement system. This condition is exacerbated by shorter barrels and gas tubes as used in the 14"-16" barrels and pistol-carbine length gas tubes. The rifle length and intermediate length gas tubes are less prone, but not immune, to the issue. Use cleaner, slower powder and you won't care but you won't get peak velocities from the shorter tubes. It's a trade and if you're only shooting a box between cleanings, nobody cares.
It also has nothing to do with "newer" rifles as the M1 carbine used a gas tappet which doesn't "shit where it eats", likewise there are many long stroke gas piston (M1 Garand), short stroke gas piston (AR-18), recoil (Auto-5), inertia operated (Benelli M4 which is a delayed variant of recoil), and a myriad of delayed blowback / blowback weapons that couldn't care less. All have existed long before the any AR stepped foot on the planet. My Winchester M-100s in both .243 & .308 Winchester will digest box after box after box on a semi annual cleaning basis it wasn't anything new when introduced in '61. The rifle might even be a '61 but I'd need to check the S/N. The carbine I did check many years ago and IIRC it was bought by a CT police agency in either '73 or '74 - it's a nice gun.
The F/A was created because the Army changed the load.
No. The Army did change the load but this is "wet roads cause rain" logic. Most critically and succinctly:
1. Stoner himself recommended against both the 'Colt'/plunger FA and the use of ball powder (and/or chrome-plating components). Assuming Stoner not to be somewhere between terrible engineer and maliciously insane moron, the proposals were made separately in order of "FA?" first, "Ball powder?" second rather than the other way around.
2. XM16E1s, which had a forward assist, using stick powder, were fielded in la Drang. If the use of ball powder precipitated the FA, the presence of FAs with stick powder, in combat doesn't make sense. "I didn't run out of ammo – had about thirty magazines in my pack. And no problems with the M16." - Sgt. Savage
The issue is as I indicated, after the failure of the T48(FAL) against the T44(M14) in cold weather testing, and in the tradition of the M1, the FA was requested/required to be added to the AR-15 prior to/independent of the discovering/creation of the ball powder issue.
RE: The entire second paragraph, yes. The FA was between an engineering band aid and an invincibility talisman psyop. Plenty of rifles and other weapons worked and work just as well by virtually any metric outside of accommodating military logistics and intelligence fuckups in virtually any dimension in space and time... without an FA.
Interesting and succinct points. Thank you. It could have been less condescending but I appreciate the full forward attitude. I freely admit that my recollections have likely been muddied by time.
I freely admit that my recollections have likely been muddied by time.
I don’t consider this to be an issue with your recall abilities. I doubt any of us were actually there passing letters between Westmoreland and Stoner. It’s, IMO, the pretty clear result of a wildly popular running narrative born from effective extraordinary rendition* and a bit of hero/design worship. There is a bit of chicken-and-egg* element as well. I freely admit my loathing for what amounts to a cover story/psy-op for bad
engineeringdecision-making* can/does come across as condescension and would not and try not assert myself as someone as hands-on wise, passively observant, or placatively informative/entertaining as Joe Mategna, Hickok 45, Ian McCollum, Ron Spomer, Stephen Caleb, etc.*Edit: I should add, serially. The selection of the M-14 over the FAL was a bit of SSDD.
Armadillos are relatively primitive animals, and even when you inflict a fatal wound they hop around like the proverbial dead chicken. You can drop them with a .22 LR, but you have to hit them so many times that they are just a pile of guts on the ground.
Have you got a silencer on the .223 since i find it to be much louder than all my other guns, due to its velocity, and the only time my neighbors complain when i shoot
Do you not own any other rifles? Shot for shot, a 30/30 or .3006 will be louder than a .223.
Depends on config. I’ve got a 26″ .308 that isn’t a treat to sit next to, but is better than the braked/flash-suppressed 16.5″ .223.
Really, the answer being sought is .17 HMR, .22 WMR, or .300 BLK.
If it's supersonic there isn't any suppressing the sonic crack of the bullet but it's possible to slow the expanding gasses which is what a suppressor does.
Putting a brake/flash suppressor on the muzzle redirects the gasses to the side which enhances the concussion & noise to the side unless it's one of the modern "linear brakes" which throws the gasses forward but it doesn't do as much for recoil. Why one needs a brake on a .223/5.56 is a bit of a mystery to me but then my main pistol has moved from a T/C Contender in .22 Hornet to .223 W to .357 Herrett all the way to an Encore in .308 W & 45-70. All I can say is that everyone really notices the 15" Encore in .308 and gives an odd WTF look down the line. I think it's mostly about the muzzle pressure when the bullet leaves the barrel.
If it’s supersonic there isn’t any suppressing the sonic crack of the bullet but it’s possible to slow the expanding gasses which is what a suppressor does.
Mmm... sorta. The .17 HMR drops back subsonic at 300 yds. (assuming you haven't hit your target), the .223 doesn't until past 600 yds., additionally, with less gas under less pressure to move a lighter round, the efficacy/need for suppression is lower, to say nothing of the BC and sectional density issues that go into the generation of the sonic crack. The muzzle pressure at the barrel is kinda the point, if you ride the pressure all the way out of an obnoxiously long barrel, you're only left with the sound of the bullet cracking the atmosphere, which is, varyingly, "50%" (on a log scale) of the noise (e.g. supersonic to subsonic .22 lr of the same weight through the same barrel drops the dBs from around 130 to around 65). Suffice to say, if you're looking to kill small game *and* be less heard by anyone in any direction, .223/5.56 is probably not the top pick.
Interesting find: https://earinc.com/gunfire-noise-level-reference-chart/
.223 55 gr. 18" barrel - 155.5 dB
.308 24" barrel - 156.2 dB
9mm - 159.8 dB
.45 ACP - 157 dB
Why one needs to fire rifle caliber rounds out of a handgun is a bit of a mystery to me.
My former brother in law, (Nice guy, unlike his sister.) used to deer hunt with a Ruger RedHawk, that took rifle rounds. It was that or a shotgun firing deer slugs (My option.) in our part of the state. So, there are reasons.
[...these rifles “have no reason other than mass murder,”]
If this statement is true the no government agent should every be using one for any purpose. Policing is not about Mass murder or should not be, yet EVERY police force and every government agent has these weapons issued or available.
Therefore, if they want to take ours under that statement, then they must take all auto weapons from government agents as well.
Practice your shot and buy a single action gun.
Indeed, high school level logic paired with a low IQ is the most plausible explanation here.
Chop off one of your hands, you can get by perfectly with only one. Nobody cares what you want, it's only about what is bare minimum.
Or leave it to the free, prosperous WINNERs, Americans, to show you what you lack in life, little boy. 🙂
Dems: Ban guns, fossil fuels, meat, tobacco
GOP: Ban genetile mutliation and gay/pedo porn in school libraries
Gentile mutilation. Guess it's a good thing I found out through DNA testing that I'm a 1/16th German Jew. Sucks for all you goyim.
Spiritus,
Are you implying that [genital] mutilation has lots of political support somewhere?
Circumcision. Female genital circumcision. And now trans surgeries.
So, yes, lots of support.
Since I started with my online business, I earn $25 every 15 minutes. It sounds unbelievable but you won’t forgive yourself if you don’t check it out.
Learn more about it here……………..>>> http://www.works75.com
Here are weapons that the Secret Service uses.
https://reloadyourgear.com/secret-service-weapons/
Why does the Secret Service need to kill humans as rapidly as possible in large numbers?
Also they may need to explain how one of the worst mass shootings ever was carried out by someone using a Glock and a P22.
We must all remember that the same side that claims that the police habitually hunt down and gun down unarmed Black men, the same side that accuses the criminal justice system of being systemically racist...
....is the same side that wants stricter gun control laws to be enforced by these very same police in this very same system.
Perhaps people would respect them a little more if one of them saidf, "Yes, our proposed laws would expose more Black people to the systemically racist criminal justice system, make violent encounter ebtween Blacks and the police much more likely, but it's worth it to save kids' lives."
None of these people ever said that.
"A foolish consistency Is the hobgoblin of [non-socialist] minds"
Probably those lung-blasting 9mm bullet things.
Correct; and at the time Cho only had 10 round magazines.
Maybe they could also be questioned on why nobody with any number of firearms (not even the FBI/ATF) has managed the kind of body count that McVeigh did without firing a single shot.
In fact, wasn't that part of the point he was trying to make? That banning guns wouldn't protect them?
Which one was that, Columbine?
Virginia Tech.
Guy had 2 pistols, one 9mm Glock and the other was some kind of 22LR (I think it was a Ruger but can't swear to my memory being accurate on that), along with a pack with a bunch of 10-roung magazines for each of them. No long guns, no "high capacity" magazines, and he passed a background check shortly before the shooting.
Dumb logic. No one needs a weapon that fires at a semi automatic rate but the military and police.
'Dumb logic.' is a summary of the subsequent paragraph in the above post.
"Heller (2008), the U.S. Supreme Court held that the Second Amendment protects “arms 'in common use at the time' for lawful purposes like self-defense” and arms that are “typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes.” Such arms are “chosen by American society,” not the government."
Why do I own semi automatic firearms, including pistols and rifles? They are quicker and more efficient than bolt or lever operated weapons. And the AR is specifically good near and far, which is why so many police departments have abandoned the shotgun in favor of a carbine for the officers on patrol.
To date there are estimated to be at least 25 million AR 15s owned by private citizens in the US; they certainly garner attention when someone uses them to commit crimes, but alternately they are actually responsible for a very small fraction of firearm homicides. The FBI UCR reports on average that all "long guns," which includes everything from a .22 rifle to a .50 BMG, account for about 350 homicides per year. This is .035% of all killings.
The argument that they are creating mass casualties is greatly over stated.
Now pivot to an emotional fallacy and cry out about how horrendous any given shooting is and that it is just beyond discussion.
If semi-automatics were 'good for nothing but mass murders', there would thousands more mass murders.
eh?
Since I started with my online business, I earn $25 every 15 minutes. It sounds unbelievable but you won’t forgive yourself if you don’t check it out.
Learn more about it here……………..>>> http://www.works75.com
If just 1% of the privately owned AR-style rifles in the country were used for that purpose in a given year, there'd be nearly 1000 incidents every day of that year.
Correct, but the actual percentage of ALL long guns, encompassing .22 rifles, shotguns of all gauges, and up to .50 BMG, accounts for .035%; so if there are some total 25 millions ARs in the US, and of course only a very small fraction are miss used, closer to 0.000004% of all such weapons.
I am as disturbed by any shooting, especially of the type we hear so much about as when a deranged loser goes into a public place, almost invariably "gun free," to try for their 15 minutes of infamy. But as bad as those things are, it just does not add up that these weapons are posing a significant danger to society.
Such conclusions are, in my opinion, emotional and political. Suppose you could magically confiscate off of those weapons, bear in mind that infamous shooters have used both handguns [Steven Cho, Virginia Tech; Walter P 22 and Glock 19, both with 10 round magazines] and shotguns, [Washington Navy Yard, Aaron Alexis, with a 5 round Remington 870 pump action shotgun] to commit their heinous crimes. Eliminating a specific weapon is not going to stop such actors; they will find and use whatever is available, with no less significant losses of life. So the argument of gun control is that banning any particular class of weapon will never be enough. As Senator Metzenbaum put it, "until we can ban ALL of them, there is no point to banning any of them."
Just look the GB, where knife control is the issue of the day, to the point of eliminating pointy kitchen knives.
handguns account for more than three-quarters of the firearms used in such crimes and an even larger share of the firearms used in gun homicides generally.
I don't think you know what the word 'generally' means.
I don't always homicide but when I do I generally use handguns.
Razzle-dazzle accounts for more than a quarter of such basketball play and an even larger share of the play used in defeats Generally.
The two times that I probably "homicided" I used a grenade launcher from a helicopter.
Hey dummy. Let's start with semi-automatic weapons and ban those. At the very least they should be very difficult to get and as regulated as a drivers license to own and keep. That will end a good percentage of mass murders happening where they should never happen--school, church, grocery store, theater, etc. From there we can drill down on other laws and loose guns out there that are too easily sold and traded that make it easy for insane and violent people to get them. It's going to take a while. We've allowed such an wide open market for guns and ammo everyone has them now. We fucked up. Admit it.
Let's ban all cars, that is the safest way to prevent car accidents and drunk driving and abductions, of which there are far more than any gun incidents.
" We’ve allowed such an wide open market for guns and ammo everyone has them now. We fucked up. Admit i"
400 million guns in the United States of America. Absolutely amazing. Irreversible. We WIN, and cannot stop winning harder. 😀
"We’ve allowed such an wide open market for guns and ammo everyone has them now. We fucked up. Admit it."
Spells like a kid, too. You are a bullied little loser. Admit it. 🙂
"Illinois Senate President Don Harmon (D–Oak Park) likewise maintains that killing innocent people is the "only intent" of the rifles his state banned."
Where can I get one of these rifles that has intent? Do they have an included Artificial Intelligence module?
That only comes with the chainsaw bayonet.
I want the one with the super carrier bayonet. Chainsaws cool. Ability to launch 93 strike fighters, priceless.
My last salary was $8750 just ecom worked 12 hours a week. My neighbor has long found an estimate of $16,000″ (u113 and works about 20 hours for seven days…I can’t believe how easy was after
trying the info… payusadollars
It's called a gonne and only available in Ankh-Morpork.
I sure hope these forward-thinking Democrats expand assault weapons bans to include assault words.
Where have you been? Assault words are following on the heels of "assault rifles."
Banning "assault" weapons has proved to be problematic so banning "assault" words has led the way.
These blue states are deliberately defying the supreme court.
They keep passing these unconstitutional laws knowing they will be struck down by the court.
It takes years and thousands of dollars to take it to court and get it thrown out.
They Immediately pass similar laws that again have to be challenged in court.
It’s a game of whack a mole and there is no end in sight
The only way it will stop is if those officials responsible are punished criminally for violating their oaths of office, or at least removed from office in response. So I agree … not going to happen. Addendum: I just recalled another possibility: if all new laws were required to undergo a Constitutional judicial review before taking effect. Perhaps that is doable at some point.
It's doable on the same principle as Voting Rights Act preclearance, but requires a pretty substantial majority in Congress to pull off.
Not much you can legally do to the actual legislators, but the people actually carrying out law enforcement can be gone after under 18 U.S.C. § 242; "Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law", IF you can apply enough pressure on the (generally hostile to the 2nd amendment!) DOJ.
To quote the DOJ's description,
"This provision makes it a crime for someone acting under color of law to willfully deprive a person of a right or privilege protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States. It is not necessary that the offense be motivated by racial bias or by any other animus.
Defendants act under color of law when they wield power vested by a government entity. Those prosecuted under the statute typically include police officers, sheriff’s deputies, and prison guards. However other government actors, such as judges, district attorneys, other public officials, and public school employees can also act under color of law and can be prosecuted under this statute.
Section 242 does not criminalize any particular type of abusive conduct. Instead, it incorporates by reference rights defined by the Constitution, federal statutes, and interpretive case law. Cases charged by federal prosecutors most often involve physical or sexual assaults. The Department has also prosecuted public officials for thefts, false arrests, evidence-planting, and failing to protect someone in custody from constitutional violations committed by others.
A violation of the statute is a misdemeanor, unless prosecutors prove one of the statutory aggravating factors such as a bodily injury, use of a dangerous weapon, kidnapping, aggravated sexual abuse, death resulting, or attempt to kill, in which case there are graduated penalties up to and including life in prison or death. If charged in conjunction with 18 U.S.C. § 250, as noted below, all sexual assaults under color of law are felonies. "
Political messaging. The pols only care about preaching to their constituents.
West coast Dems work for a constituency who almost universally sees opposition by the NRA as a sign that literally any idea must be "good policy", and who think that if only their pet handful of ideas were put in place (single payer health care, closed "union shop" employment terms for all non-executive workers, and a slate of "common sense" gun control changes consisting almost exclusively of ideas that are either symbolic or redundant to existing laws) then there'd be no remaining problems in the world. The primary "base" voters also tend to believe that any ideas deviating from their own are the result of "terrorist" thinking rooted in the intent to kill millions of people and unmake human civilization.
The pols in states like WA, CA and OR also have to do a special kind of dance where they have most of their consitituent voters convinced that government spending could be increased by multiples without any deficit if only the "1%" or the "1% of the 1%" could be made to pay their "fair share" of taxes; meanwhile the people in that category are almost all operating in the tech sector these days and make up the Dem party donor class (meaning their taxes aren't likely to actualy get increased significantly). Since the public school teachers unions make up an alarmingly large contingent of the party insiders, they do their part by encouraging the teaching of liberal arts and "social justice" over STEM, and make sure that only a select few among public school graduates understand enough math to question how total revenues are supposed to be increased by 3-5X by only raising taxes on the subset of the populace which already contributes 35-40% of the current total.
What the fuck are you blathering about? You sound like nearly every other Russian bot out there. Try harder to obscure your intention or fuck off.
Little boy with troubled puberty has got a sad and is vewy vewy angwy about other peoples opinions... Your tears are delicious. 🙂
But the laws never go into effect, which makes it even more absurd.
Gavin Newsom did manage to make ammunition sellers re-arrange their spaces with prop 62. Also, in my experience they started in 2020 with requiring a "Real-ID" compliant ID for the background checks on guns and ammo (at least for the $1 "instant" option for ammo, there's still the $20 "secondary" check option which can drag out for up to 30 days) despite the bungled roll-out of those IDs at the DMV being further disrupted by the entire department closing for 2 months due to Covid, and the requirement to get first-time RealIDs in person.
So much of the rest has been overturned/blocked, at one point leading to "freedom week" where maybe 10 million or more legally sold "high capacity" magazines (including some that are actaully larger than standard mags like 30+ round Glock "Fun sticks") got sold in the state, and creating a chance at "reasonable doubt" for people who might happen to bring some in from out of state (if caught, just claim you bought it that week and it's the State's burden to prove that you didn't.
More than half the court is loaded with perverts, rapists, tax evaders, hypocrites, stooges, QAnon fanatics and ethical disasters. What was your issue again?
I take it that this high school kid also has a fair share of leftChan discussion boards they frequent.
"perverts, rapists, tax evaders, hypocrites, stooges"
I always suspected that a fair share of the people working for the court are democrats.
Washington Gov. Jay Inslee…insists these rifles "have no reason other than mass murder," because "their only purpose is to kill humans as rapidly as possible in large numbers." Illinois Senate President Don Harmon (D–Oak Park) likewise maintains that killing innocent people is the "only intent" of the rifles his state banned.
SAF and the FPC…cite survey data indicating that "about 24.6 million Americans have owned AR-15 or similar modern semiautomatic rifles."
According to Statista, rifles were used in 447 homicides in 2021 (fewer than the number of homicides committed with hands, fists, and feet by the way). Let’s assume, even though we know it is false, that every one of those was a different rifle. Let’s assume, even though we know it is false, that every one of those rifles was of the AR-15 type. Let’s assume, even though we know it is false, that every one of those homicides was a murder. And let’s assume that there are roughly 20 million of these rifles in circulation. Approximately…carry the zero…twenty-two ten-thousandths of a percent of them were used in a homicide that year. For fuck’s sake, if every murder in the country was a unique AR it would still be a trivial percentage of the total number of ARs. Less than 0.0023% of them were used for their “only intent”.
Both Inslee’s and Harmony’s assertions are categorically false. Have PolitiFact and FactCheck.org been notified?
Statistics don't matter. Don't you care about kids. You have blood on your hand. If it saves one life. Derh.
Exactly, just try and present those cold, hard facts to a gun control advocate; they will pivot to emotion so fast it will make your head spin.
My last salary was $8750 just ecom worked 12 hours a week. My neighbor has long found an estimate of $16,000″ (u113 and works about 20 hours for seven days…I can’t believe how easy was after
trying the info… payusadollars
"These laws never made much sense."
Not making sense was actually a large part of the point: The original AWB was an effort to establish legal precedent for arbitrary firearms bans. Arbitrary was important, because once you got it past the courts, you'd be able to expand the list at will, and what could anybody say? There wasn't any real basis for the list to begin with!
Just gonna repost this again.
It's almost enough to make you embarrassed for them.
[Not really]
Amazing what can get you years in a federal pen:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdfl/pr/st-cloud-man-sentenced-21-months-prison-possessing-short-barreled-rifle
From what I know of this story the guy was/is an outstanding citizen, and had worked as a dispatcher for his local SD; even the sheriff wrote a letter attesting to his character. His troubles started when 1] he put the wrong piece of plastic on his CZ and 2] someone he knew, with their own legal problems, turned on him and used his "illegal gun possession" to resolve their own issues with the government.
Now he is doing time in a federal facility and his life, as he knew it, is over.
In its motion for an emergency stay Illinois points out that other judges have refused to enjoin the new law. Let's wait for the appeals court to rule before we call this a trend instead of a rogue judge.
I'm glad she acknowledged the monstrous premise of this otherwise good comedy. A couple breaks up, so they decide to divide up their infant twins -- so each girl will never see the other parent, her sister, or any of her other relatives again? Or even know she has a sister? Just as in the original version of this movie, the real villains a re clearly both parents.....
SITE. ——>>> WORK AT HOME
"People are dying", bleat the sheep.
Russian bot.
'Russian bot' is, in fact, ed tantamounts signature. I assure you Truthteller is a known, highly American commenter, while you are one of the bleating sheep he describes.
First, try to get a democrat to define an assault weapon.
Second, anything can be an assault weapon, from a firearm, a baseball bat, a knife, or even hands, feet & fists.
Third, every weapon in the Second Statement are used more often to commit murder in the US than rifles of any kind, and an even smaller subset of what the democrats & media term as an "assault weapon."
When we gun controllers say "assault weapon," we mean automatic and semi-automatic rifles above .22 caliber. We mean magazine size less than x. Bats, knives, karate chops can assault BUT THEY CANNOT COMMIT MASS MURDER, WHICH IS THE POINT. We mean THE KIND OF WEAPONS WITHOUT WHICH SANDY HOOK AND THE LAS VEGAS CONCERT KILLINGS, TO GIVE TWO EXAMPLES, WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE. You guys are purposely evading the point.
Not one thing you just said is true. Mass murders are regularly committed using knives when guns are unavailable. Just look at London's "knife violence crisis". Or truck bombs. Or just bombs. Or just trucks. Sandy Hook, the Las Vegas Concert and all the rest of such tragedies would still have occurred no matter how strict the gun controls imposed.
More to the point, a disarmed populace is most commonly massacred by its own government. All your worst fears about gun violence are dwarfed by the people murdered in the name of politics.
OK. Suppose the law says you need a special permit to possess a repeating rifle above .22 cal with more than 10 shells. That ends mass gun murder committed with LEGAL weapons. You go nowhere arguing about bombs or knives. Las Vegas was done from a sniper hotel room. Try that with a knife. And who's for free access to bombs, you? Being against mass murder machines doesn't mean you're FOR Timothy McVeigh! How can a point be so simple that gunners can't see it? Gun control doesn't pretend to end all homicide, modestly noticing that, given the weapons of choice in crowd shootings, semi-automatic, military-style rifles are the logical place to start.
The use cases of a thing are defined by the 99.999..% of responsible users, for AR15s that is plinking, hunting and self-defense, not killing, for cars that is transportation and road tripping, not drunk driving and abduction.
SCOTUS knows this and will make decisions based on common use, because ‘we the people’.
There is nothing you can do about that except seethe and moan and cry impotently, which is deeply entertaining and delicious to the rest of us, the winners. 🙂
"Target shooting." If you can use other guns for murder, you can also use other guns -- more refined and requiring more skill -- for target shooting. "35 percent cited defense outside the home." Exactly where are these people going that they need to bring mass murder machines along? You mean like Kyle Rittenhouse, the uninvited teenage vigilante? I call them mass murder machines because THAT'S THE ENTIRE REASON WHY THEY WERE INVENTED -- even if those with overloads of testosterone and paranoia can find "legitimate" civilian uses for them. "Fun" sums it up. "Fun" of the most dangerous and antisocial possible kind, that is. The days of militias are far in the past, and with them any legitimate reason for civilian possession of mass murder machines, however defined. Though yes, I know, it will require a SCOTUS not bought and paid for by the NRA/Federalist Society to say so.
Fuck Off.
@Hickamore is on a tear but why respond with Fuck Off? Afraid of a little lively debate. Hell, maybe he’s the devil’s advocate. Makes it more fun!
Oh, and on the subject of fun, @Hickamore, so what if it is fun? If 99.9% of the owners of terrible “murder machines” are not murdering but just having fun, why would that need a ban? Is it really anti-social? Have you been to a range, or a shooting competition? Do you hunt? All of that is pretty social. So what if the socializing happens around a black rifle? Ya know, alcohol is a potent killer and indeed poison. One could argue it’s a mass killer too. People drink it ‘cause it’s fun. Fun of the most dangerous and antisocial kind. Well, we aught to ban alcohol! No one can use it responsibly. Actually, you’re on to something here! People can’t control themselves around dangerous things that are fun. We’d better make sure they have no access. Wait! Better yet, let’s have the government make sure they have no access then we won’t be blamed for spoiling the party, eh?
Guns exist only because they are efficient killing machines. By contrast, brewing and distillation were invented for preservative reasons. True, once having guns, we can then invent fun gun sports. But you guys miss the forest for the trees. Guns are, fundamentally and in essence, killing machines and nothing more. Not so with booze or even explosives. For sporting purposes you could as well use rubber bullets. Well, except for deer and armadillos and (in my case) groundhogs. For those you need killer ammo. I use a .22 LR.
But these are all inanimate objects, they lack agency and purpose. So it's flatly irrelevant that guns were originally invented to kill. I mean, so were lawn darts!
Lawn darts were originally invented to kill? Well, they're not very good at it. Guns may lack agency, but not purpose. Are you saying a screwdriver has no purpose?
The use cases of a thing are defined by the 99.999..% of responsible users, for AR15s that is plinking, hunting and self-defense, not killing, for cars that is transportation and road tripping, not drunk driving and abduction.
SCOTUS knows this and will make decisions based on common use, because ‘we the people’.
There is nothing you can do about that except seethe and moan and cry impotently, which is deeply entertaining and delicious to the rest of us, the winners. 🙂
Well, before the current SCOTUS came along, you guys had been the LOSERS for 200 years. Former Chief Justice Warren Burger, a Nixon appointee, said the notion that the Second Amendment creates a personal right to keep and bear arms, as opposed to a collective right to fight as militias for national defense, such as defense against insurrection, was "a fraudulent claim." All legal precedent for 200 years supported Burger's conclusion, as did (and does still) the overwhelming weight of expert legal opinion. The position now embraced by SCOTUS literally DID NOT EXIST, not even in the NRA, prior to formation of the Federalist Society. So you may be "the winners" today, but the long view of history says the US will rejoin all rational nations in banning mass murder machines. There is no reason why one can't "plink" using rubber bullets, and you know it.
YAAAWWWN… I’m sure we’re also going back to racial segregation and no voting rights for women, because that’s how it’s been for the longest time? Keep crying and stomping in defeat, it will not undo the progress we have achieved in this great country, including more than 100 million gun owners with about 400 million guns in total and 20+ million owners of those oh so terrifying AR style rifles alone, let alone AKs and others.
Items of common use. Drink it in. Items of common use. You are free to use rubber bullets and bicycles, while free Americans will continue to make their free choices against your will.
Your side has nothing but whinging and powerless rage. While we, the winners, continue to expand our collections, have fun with our AR15s with the family and pass losers like you with a BIG smile on our face. Every minute of every day. ????
I’ve had 3 people become new gun owners so far this year. Two have expressed interest in an AR. And there is nothing you can do about that.
Also, learn what a prefatory clause is. You lost. Delicious.
YOU miss the forest for the trees, Hickamore. 400 million guns, one mass shooter per many many million responsible gun owners. One drunk driving accident, abduction and even intentional run-over per many many responsible car owners.
Your side chronically misses the big picture and will therefore continue to be curb stomped.
Since I started with my online business, I earn $25 every 15 minutes. It sounds unbelievable but you won’t forgive yourself if you don’t check it out.
Learn more about it here……………..>>> http://www.works75.com
Attempting to be generous with Inslee, and assume he’s acting in good faith (about as much as I believe in unicorns, but one should try) I have to believe that he just honestly doesn’t know how guns work. In my experience, nothing changes minds more than a day at the range, with a decent variety of pistols and rifles, and a good teacher.
I was not raised around guns. My father and two of three brothers were Marines / Air Force. I took the bullets out of .223 rounds that mt brother brough back from Vietnam, with a pair of pliers, to see if I could get the gun powder to go “poof” when I lit the pile. I was disappointed. But I was taught about how they work, by people who had fired them at people who were tryiong to kill them.
I have to believe that the only reason they can get away with this stuff is because the only experience with guns so many people have on the on the left just comes from movies.
On the cynical side, he probably does know exactly how they work, and he’s firing up the base, the way hospital-width hallways fired up the anti-abortion base for the Rs.
The other thing is that we have been through an extrordinarily *safe* period in US cities, where almost a generation of people grew up without worrying about predators, until it came roaring back starting about 2015 / 2017. It may take another 10 years of living with 70s level violence, for people to start understanding again.
And for freedom loving people? We might have to accept that the mass incarceration starting from 90’s was actually working, and that is something that does not make me happy at all.
Google is by and by paying $27485 to $29658 consistently for taking a shot at the web from home. I have joined this action 2 months back and I have earned $31547 in my first month from this action. I can say my life is improved completely! Take a gander at it what I do.....
For more detail visit the given link..........>>> http://Www.jobsrevenue.com
Online, Google paid $45 per hour. Nine months have passed since my close relative last had a job, but in the previous month she earned $10500 by working 8 hours a day from home. Now is the time for everyone to try this job by using this website…
Click the link—↠ http://Www.Smartjob1.com