On Elections and Gender, Fox Hosts and New York Times Critics Gave Up on Persuasion
Erasing sincere disagreement doesn't make it go away.

Libertarianism is almost never having a moment, which is unfortunate for the law and politics of the United States but very handy for reminding libertarians that ours is not a normal political perspective in this country. Yes, there are some deep libertarian impulses in the American id, and yes, polling sometimes shows a remarkable cross-partisan convergence on one libertarian position or another. But generally, any self-aware libertarian must know that most of our compatriots don't think like we do, nor will they absent the persuasion of good arguments and bad governance.
But for those comfortably located within the modern American left or right, who enjoy the major partisan alignment that usually entails, this self-awareness and the reliance on persuasion it encourages might be more difficult to maintain. It certainly seems to be lacking in two buzzy media stories of the past week: the open letter by New York Times contributors complaining about the paper's coverage of trans topics and the revelations about Fox News hosts found in court documents from a defamation suit. These are cases of opposite but mutually deleterious ways of abandoning persuasion in dealing with ideologically uncooperative swathes of the American public.
The Times letter takes issue with the newspaper's handling, in its reporting and opinion sections alike, of stories about "transgender, non-binary, and gender nonconforming people." Its arguments rest heavily on the assumption that what to think about trans identity and how to address its presentation in medical settings are purely matters of settled science that should, by now, be wholly excluded from public debate. The signatories assert that their position is "unremarkable, even common, and certainly not deserving of the Times' intense scrutiny."
What deserves the Times' intense scrutiny is debatable, I suppose, but so too are the positions in this letter. That's not a moral judgment but merely a statement of fact: These views are debatable in America in 2023 in that they are literally under active debate right now. They are "common," perhaps, but not "unremarkable" and definitely not held by a supermajority of Americans.
This is all very well-documented in extensive polling on the subject over recent years. Americans' positions on LGBT topics are evolving rapidly, but we are nowhere near done with this debate. In fact, by one measure, average opinion has reversed course and is now trending more conservative.
That's disappointing to some, I realize, but many disappointing things are also true. And maybe disagreeing with the signatories of the letter makes most Americans ignorant or hateful or both, but that doesn't change the fact that there's disagreement. Public opinion isn't always what we want it to be. Declaring one view to be the norm does not make it so.
Meanwhile, over at Fox, prominent anchors like Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, and Maria Bartiromo are evidently very aware that the public—or, more precisely, their public—doesn't share their view of claims of massive fraud in the 2020 election made by former President Donald Trump and his allies like lawyers Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell.
Documents from a defamation lawsuit brought against Fox by Dominion Voting Systems, a voting machine manufacturer whose product was implicated in the fraud allegations, show the hosts fully understood that the theories pushed by Powell et al. were, in their words, "insane" ideas from an "idiot" and a "lying," "complete nut."
Still, they permitted—even welcomed—advocates of those theories on Fox airwaves because the audience liked it. As Carlson put it, "Our viewers are good people and they believe it," though Carlson himself did not. Or, as Bartiromo agreed, "It's easier to get good ratings when you give your audience something they want to hear," and "a peaceful transition" between the Trump and Biden administrations was not what they wanted to hear. Or Hannity: "You don't piss off the base." Why try to persuade when you can take the lazy, greedy route of surrendering to nonsense and lies?
The answer, as simultaneously quixotic and anodyne as it may sound, is that it is good, actually, to take seriously ideas held by tens of millions of people in this country. It is good, if we think those ideas are wrong, to subject them to rigorous scrutiny while giving a generous hearing to the rationales of their proponents. It is good to admit differences instead of pretending away the other side's perspective or our own. It is good to debate. And it is good to try to persuade people who disagree with us to share our thinking instead.
Good is not always the same as easy, practical, politic, or profitable, of course. Persuasion attempts might make you less popular. Being willing to debate or simply document someone else's debate might bring backlash. These aren't always attractive options, nor is debate appropriate for every setting. We can always come up with situational and relational exceptions to the rule.
Yet the alternatives—operating in denial about the state of public conversation or abandoning our best understanding of the truth for the sake of convenience—are so much worse. They're worse for our own strength of intellect and character, and they're worse for public opinion itself. If ours is not the majority view, neither preemptively claiming victory nor cravenly accepting defeat will accomplish the change we want. Persuasion might not accomplish it either, but it's at least worth a try.
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From the article, "Persuasion attempts might make you less popular."
No shit, Sherlock! This is the very LEAST of the problem! People who dare to insist on speaking Truth to the evil troglodytes get themselves KILLED!
The intelligent, well-informed, and benevolent members of tribes have ALWAYS been feared and resented by those who are made to look relatively worse (often FAR worse), as compared to the advanced ones. Especially when the advanced ones denigrate tribalism. The advanced ones DARE to openly mock “MY Tribe’s lies leading to violence against your tribe GOOD! Your tribe’s lies leading to violence against MY Tribe BAD! VERY bad!” And then that’s when the Jesus-killers, Mahatma Gandhi-killers, Martin Luther King Jr.-killers, etc., unsheath their long knives!
“Do-gooder derogation” (look it up) is a socio-biologically programmed instinct. SOME of us are ethically advanced enough to overcome it, using benevolence and free will! For details, see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Do_Gooders_Bad/ and http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/ .
Even if you're just questioning the sacraments of certain modern religions too:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11765593/Top-horror-author-signed-letter-decrying-NYT-trans-coverage-tweets-death-threat-JK-Rowling.html
Singal, one of the authors Felker-Martin singled out in her death threat tweet, said he was appalled at her rhetoric, and warned it could translate to real world violence. Singal found himself on the 'hit list' of aggressive transgender activists after he wrote a story in The Atlantic in 2018 discussing gender reassignment therapy for children.
Felker-Martin's tweet called for her followers to kidnap Singal and leave him tied up by the quarry for a mob to finish off.
Thanks! Ugly news, but thanks; I wasn't aware of that one!
"Sticks and stones..." saying has now been replaced!
"Sticks and stones will break your bones whenever you say something that pisses me off!"
AKA "Do unto others before they do unto you!" ("Preemptive revenge"... "Silence is violence"... Etc.)
Felker-Martin’s tweet called for her followers to kidnap Singal and leave him tied up by the quarry for a mob to finish off.
Is this out of bounds now? It doesn't seem much different from Welch wishing all conservative writers be invited to a red-wedding style mass-slaughter for which he received no meaningful pushback. Apparently divisive rhetoric including death threats are only a problem when directed to media figures, the same directed from media figures is fine.
"...Welch wishing all conservative writers be invited to a red-wedding style mass-slaughter..." Citation?
Welch likely thinks that he's a protected class because of 1A, but that bit of speech wasn't in his official capacity, or he'd have back-pedaled from it. He might eventually learn that the government that his in-group worships believes there is a fine line between homicidal ideation and having a plan to harm others.
In his defense, leftists re pretty worthless in a street fight if they don’t have law enforcement protecting them.
Don’t tell the victims of Antifa that….
They usually surround a victim and attack them from behind.
Like any true hero:
And in places .Ike Portland, they either let antifa go or cut them loose hours later with no charges filed. Not so for people who fight back. And Antifa only attacks in overwhelming numbers. Otherwise they usually get the shit beaten out of them. If things ever go hot, and it turns into a street war, antifa will be exterminated at a blinding pace.
"Apparently divisive rhetoric including death threats are only a problem when directed to media figures, the same directed from media figures is fine."
Gotta make a big deal of it so regime simp Jessie Singal can have some credibility as (false) opposition.
Gotta keep regime simps like Singal in line
Let me distill this down for you. When there are more dumb people than smart people, guess who will win the fight to make everything dumb and then eventually eliminate the smart ones from sheer numbers? You don't think that's happening now?
Any self-aware libertarian must know that Reason is neither.
Dee will be along shortly to cawrect you.
We are ALL sinners in The Eyes of Our Lord and Savior, Der TrumpfenFuhrer! Only the Grace of The TrumptatorShit can save us, and turn us into REAL libertarians!
(For those of us, like me, who feel so far fallen, so lowly and degraded, full of non-libertarian deep, dark sin, that we are afraid to even approach and ask The TrumptatorShit for forgiveness and transformation into TRUE libertarianism? I have a fix! Approach Saint Babbitt as an intermediary, appeal to HER Good Graces, and THAT will help a LOT!)
Once again, SQRLSY seems to be missing his meds on the weekend. Is it a home care problem or just the lazy weekend shift at the Institute?
Some one, some time, must have told the spastic asshole that his ravings were 'clever', as opposed to the reality that they're simply pathetic and infantile.
Spastic asshole needs to fuck off and die.
To be fair, sometimes he would post actually salient and on point things. But much like Hihn, he decided the crazy yelling and copy-pasta was more his style and has completely slipped into it.
I remember very rare occasions when the spastic asshole wasn't totally spastic, but like a turd post which isn't a lie, it was likely accidental. Further, you had to wade through piles and piles of infantile whining and screaming to find them.
What sort of egotistical asshole would assume anyone else would waste time?
A blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut.
At least Hihn had the good grace to drop dead.
What, the meds that brainwash the Trump-Cultists into becoming the TRUE libertarians? Is it totally blissful there where you're at, in Trumpist-True-Libertarian Utopia? Absolved of ALL personal responsibility, signing ALL decisions over to the Trumpist-True-Libertarian-Utopian Hive Mind? WHERE do you GET your meds... I wanna try some! And what does the Trumpist-True-Libertarian-Utopian Hive Mind say that I may eat for breakfast today?
So tell us all again how psychiatry and the pharmaceutical industry is lying about crazy people.
Well, like many-many of us, they will tell you exaggerations about their powers! To cut through their bullshit, remember, they (and the education establishment too) will never, can never, make a competent doctor or engineer out of a Down's Syndrome person. AND they have YET to cure evil and narcissism, ass YOU well know, Perfect One!
If you ever come around to wanting to work on your affliction, EvilBahnFuhrer, start here: M. Scott Peck, The People of the Lie, the Hope for Healing Human Evil
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684848597/reasonmagazinea-20/
People who are evil attack others instead of facing their own failures. Peck demonstrates the havoc these “people of the lie” work in the lives of those around them.
Thanks.
You're welcome! Now please READ the book! It can't help if you don't read it!
You obviously didn't...
Here's a little tip, Sqrlsy. Lying actually means deliberately telling falsehoods. You know, that little thing that you do each and every hour of the day.
He doesn’t care.
I recognize that feeding a troll is probably a mistake, but when I read your god-awful batshit lunacy I have to wonder if your trollness should be fed rat poison as a merciful fate instead.
Yup. Because true libertarians agree with the political right and hate everything and everyone associated with the political left. Any, and I mean ANY, sympathy with the left equates to total agreement, which makes Reason leftist. It is known. Now let us pray to Saint Babbitt. “Fuck Joe Biden. Fuck Joe Biden. Fuck Joe Biden. Thy will be done.”
Nice strawman.
Amazing how you keep defending trashing someone killed by the government.
Ashli Babbitt got exactly what she asked for. If you don't want to get dead, don't try to breach a barricade with armed defenders.
That's pretty much my view of it. He shouldn't have shot her, but you don't bust through a door with a cop on the other side pointing a gun at you, and expect not to get shot.
She was way past the point where any sensible person would have been aware they shouldn't have been doing that.
Not just sympathizing with the left, but even pointing out when someone is blatantly lying about the left is aligning with the left.
You blatantly lie here, a lot... near constantly, actually. The only time you don't is when you're sealioning... well no, even then.
Does that make me part of the left for pointing it out?
It just gets you on his muted list so he can claim he’s muted you can can claim he can’t read what you have to say.
^ This
If we all completely ignored him, would he go away?
Unfortunately, the squawking bird will still make noise. Like Turd, who shits on every thread he can, the White Knight will still need to be fought. That said, Mike is like the knight in Holy Grail who is missing his arms and legs, and calls it a fucking flesh wound.
Mike is Reason’s Fetterman.
He’s also half retarded. The other half is mealy mouth Marxist shit.
Well both sides are definitely bad on certain points, but usually libertarians can agree that the government killing unarmed protestors is not to be celebrated.
That sentiment ought to spread far beyond any claim of being libertarian. Purposely shooting unarmed people who are no threat to you ought to result in a long jail sentence, at least.
Pretty certain it takes a real asshole to claim otherwise, like this asshole:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”
Why, they might have put their feet on some desks!
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. This wasn't a "racial justice" protest, it was an attack. Unlike what happened in Portland and CHAZ in 2020.
sarc, thanks for the strawman but I have enough tinder and kindling for the stove.
As for the emotional mess of your remaining post, the NAP is a libertarian principle. Babbitt was not a deadly threat hence lethal force was not justified. For someone usually critical of when blue city police assault and sometimes kill unarmed citizens, where we stand together on that criticism though not the solutions, you give police a free pass on an unarmed American exercising 1A on public property. Had Capitol Police or adjacent killed any protester during the Kavanaugh confirmation, that would have been just as bad. Selective use of force depending on which tribe the unarmed citizen is on is incongruent with the NAP and libertarianism. Selective acceptance of 1A depending on which tribe the citizen speaking is on is incongruent with free speech and libertarianism.
Joe Biden (D), a career politician that voted to go into Afghanistan and Iraq, costing this nation trillions as well as American lives much less many lives of others that had not done any harm to the United States or her people, extended then botched the exit from Afghanistan, has provided over a hundred billion dollars in military aid to a corrupt regime that pulls the nation closer to a direct conflict with the world’s top nuclear power, supported and co-authored the draconian 1994 crime bill is far from libertarian. Fuck Joe Biden. Anyone complaining about that or wanting to defend Biden (D) I say fuck them too.
"but I have enough tinder and kindling for the stove."
That wood burning stove you got there legal, boy?
I didn’t get a permission slip for it but I believe it meets all of the rules, regulations, requirements and requisites that the hall monitor progressive Karens have currently imposed on wood burning appliances. Locally grown and harvested, organic free-range fuel with a zero net carbon impact. No government involved so I can see where they might endeavor to busy body their way into that.
Non-GMO, gluten-free, free-trade, hand-crafted by indigenous artists? Fat and proud, and of course, non-white. Because skin color is the most important thing, even for firewood.
Red oak, red maple and yellow birch are all part of the mix. I like to FOC things up.
Firewood Of Color
https://www.jpost.com/international/kill-him-with-his-own-gun-dc-cop-talks-about-the-riot-655709 also https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/28/michael-fanone-trump-gop-riots/
‘Kill him with his own gun’ – DC cop talks about Capitol riot
DC Police officer Michael Fanone: I had a choice to make: Use deadly force, which would likely result with the mob ending his life, or trying something else.
“Pro-law-and-order” Trumpturds take the side of trumpanzees going apeshit, making cops beg for their lives! For trying to defend democracy against mobocracy! Can you slime-wads sink ANY lower?!?!
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/07/theres-word-what-trumpism-becoming/619418/
There’s a Word for What Trumpism Is Becoming
The relentless messaging by Trump and his supporters has inflicted a measurable wound on American democracy.
From above…
“The conversion of Ashli Babbitt into a martyr, a sort of American Horst Wessel, expresses the transformation. Through 2020, Trump had endorsed deadly force against lawbreakers: “When the looting starts, the shooting starts,” he tweeted on May 29, 2020. Babbitt broke the law too, but not to steal a TV. She was killed as she tried to disrupt the constitutional order, to prevent the formalization of the results of a democratic election.”
Well, also Saint Babbitt was unarmed, they say... To this I say...
What utter bullshit! A lion, tiger, or bear charges you, having NO weapons other than their body parts... Just as "un-armed" as Saint Babbitt... Are you, or are you NOT gonna shoot said predator, if you have a gun? If I beat the shit out of you, with my fists, shall I be forgiven, 'cause I was... unarmed?
My GAWD you (Saint Babbitt Worshitters) fascists are illogical!!!
Lt. Byrd didn’t know at the time whether Babbitt or others in the mob were armed or not.
But right-wing apologists for Babbitt judge Byrd as if he had all the ex-post-facto knowledge they have rather than having had to make a decision in the “fog of war”.
Good points, thanks!
(Monday morning quarterbacks are the BEST armchair crackerbox quarterbacks!)
That garbage logic could be used to justify every single police interaction with a citizen for acts such as loitering, being at a public park after hours or jaywalking. Someone skateboarding on a public street could be justifiably shot with that logic. There is a standard of care for a deadly threat and Babbitt’s actions did not meet that. Freddie Gray had a pocket knife on him so instead of the “rough ride” that the Baltimore (D) city police gave him that ended up killing him (I called that murder but Baltimore (D) disagreed), they could have shot him and totes ok? Absurd.
The video doesn't tell the whole story? Ok. We're definitely in Libertown now.
Libertown? With Mike and Sqrlsy, it's Bizzaro World.
"Someone skateboarding on a public street could be justifiably shot with that logic."
Does the skateboarder, or does the skateboarder not, have a small army of screaming bloodthirsty banshees and window-breaking, uninvited property-invading Trumpanzees gone apeshit behind her, backing her up, or not? CONTEXT goes for an apeshit-load's worth of difference here!
Thanks for proving that you don’t really mean any of the things you say when it comes to other police shootings of unarmed people.
When you think about it, police really should just shoot everyone because they don't know who might be carrying a gun and might decide to shoot them.
Wow, the level of disingenuousness…
You can’t think of any differences between the Ashli Babbitt scenario and someone peacefully walking down the street? Really?
The thought that the government agent did anything wrong just doesn't occur in your brain, does it? He's always justified to shoot Ashli in the throat. No matter what.
Yes, he was justified.
Of course not "no matter what", but we are familiar with the actual circumstances of what happened that day. "No matter what" -- what a marvellously vague argument to make.
Does it occur in your brain that trying to break through the window of the Speaker’s Lobby at the head of a violent mob on the day the electoral college votes are being certified makes one the aggressor doing the threatening act?
If it's an unarmed young girl versus an armed government goon?
Gee, I wonder who was in most danger?
Also, by your logic, he would have been justified to empty his clip into the crowd. Mike the libertarian!
“A young girl” who was 36 years old.
There is no way the officer knew whether she or anyone else in the mob was armed or not.
As a libertarian I am quite grateful to Officer Byrd for defending American democracy.
Also, yes, they should have shot more of the mob members … if any of them crossed the barricade line by trying to enter the door or crawl through the window.
Yes, you have brought disingenuousness to new heights.
Dude ... if you don't KNOW -- don't FIRE!!!!
“……right wing apologists for Babbitt….”
Wow.
I do hope you get what you deserve someday.
As everyone should.
Lt. Byrd didn’t know at the time whether Babbitt or others in the mob were armed or not.
So the shooting of Tamir Rice was a good shoot? Boy, now you're starting to sound like Dunphy.
"you give police a free pass on an unarmed American exercising 1A on public property"
You can't actually believe that is an accurate description of the mob that smashed their way through windows and doors to enter the Capitol and tried to force their way through barricades with armed defenders.
"Had Capitol Police or adjacent killed any protester during the Kavanaugh confirmation"
If they had smashed their way in and tried ro breach a defended position, they would have gotten what they asked for. Comparing Jan. 6 to the Kavanaugh hearings is like comparing CHAZ to the Selma to Mongomery march.
"Selective use of force depending on which tribe the unarmed citizen is on is incongruent with the NAP and libertarianism."
When you smash your way into a building and try to breach a barricade, you are the one violating the NAP, not the defenders. That isn't "selective use of force" based on someone's "tribe". It's defending against aggressors who have already acted with violence.
How do you get from a completely justified response when facing a rioting mob to the Russian invasion of Ukraine?
Oh, I see. The invaders who started the violence aren't the ones violating the NAP, it's the ones who fight back against the invaders who are the problem.
Apparently in your world it isn't aggression that violates the NAP, it's resisting agression brought against you.
The political left have been literal no shit totalitarian fascists for going on 100 years. Every libertarian should be against them.
Where the political right strays into authoritarian religious fundamentalism they should rightly be smacked down too.
Oh, and libertarians, as shown by the ridiculous “misinformation” bullshit being pushed by certain groups, IS already considered on the political right by those on the left.
Oh, and everything Chumby said.
Ashli Babbitt got what she deserved. Legislating morality is the favored tactic of cultural conservatives, not the left. Opposition to every social advancement since the abolition of slavery has been championed by cultural conservatives, which puts them on the wrong side of history over and over again.
Libertarians want to be left alone, not forced to conform to a narrow view of “acceptable” social beliefs defined by the sanctimonious beneficiaries of the status quo. So, by definition, the culture wars promulgated by cultural conservatives are anti-libertarian.
Socially liberal and fiscally conservative is the simple definition of libertarianism. Socially conservative and fiscally conservative is just conservative.
You posted: "Ashli Babbitt got what she deserved." Even the murderer would not utter anything this despicable.
Coercive mystical altruists have always hated other coercive altruist competitors. Look what happened in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Germany when coercive altruists agreed that Jews weren't even altruists!
This is a somewhat naive view, when TV networks are not run as non-profits.
When Fox loses viewers because their decision desk called AZ, correctly, for Biden, it's too late to have the debate, because the people you want to persuade have stopped watching and are now watching Newsmax and One Reich News. And if you wish to argue that Fox should have done more pre-election to rebut prepared claims of fraud, again, they would have lost a significant amount of viewership then. You're dealing with a significant minority who are effectively unreachable, and who have no interest in being reached.
There is no sense in “calling” an election before all the votes are counted.. Just give the facts.
People tune in for the outcome predictions, or the news shows/channels would stop making them.
You should have looked at the predictit.com or other gambling web sites taking bets on the 2020 election instead of the news. If you did, you'd see the gamblers gave Trump a 90% chance of winning the election late election night. Anyone who chose to bet on Biden at that time got 10 to 1 on their money. The smartest move would have been to bet early on Trump, sell out near midnight on election night, and put the money on Biden. Doing that would yield almost 20X the initial bet.
Which is related to why politicians want to outlaw such sites: they don't want anyone in on the steal, getting greedy and making bets that later get investigated because there's lots of other peoples' money on the outcome, and casinos and gambling web sites hate cheating.
That is a general criticism of the practice. It's certainly legitimate to provide a probabilistic estimate, and I note that it's rare for a decision desk to call a state and then change their minds.
And given that all the networks do have decision desks, should Fox's not have called AZ for Biden despite their model telling them that he had it?
They are supposed to be in the news businesses, not predictions business.
I wonder whether you thought that before the 2020 election...
And you must therefore think that they should not ever comment on the likely consequences of an action or a policy.
They can comment, but they really should stop fabricating.
The Fox decision desk did not fabricate, though.
Fox anchors lie fucking constantly and as naturally as breathing, but the DNC party organs masquerading as establishment media still manage to make them look like rank amateurs.
Hey, lefty shit-pile! Got any evidence of the DOJ strong-arming Fox, as they did lefty outlets?
"They can comment, but they really should stop fabricating."
And yet they were right, so it wasn't fabrication at all. Your problem with election coverage is ... what, that electoral models are excellent and get winners correct almost every time? That they don't wait until every single vote has been counted? So you want every race called 7-10 days after Election Day?
Their predictions were predicted…….
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/03e92cdf-4312-4c12-96a2-fec5f1e5bb42
That is a general criticism of the practice. It’s certainly legitimate to provide a probabilistic estimate, and I note that it’s rare for a decision desk to call a state and then change their minds.
Totally fair.
I mean, it's definitely a good look.
I guess you never learned probability.
Thank you, Mr. Pedantry.
No, the New York Times never learned probability.
Violating my general rule, don't discuss probability with laypeople because they won't understand it regardless, let's give this a try, and see whether you are merely ignorant, rather than actually stupid. (I don't know if you're a lawyer, but lawyers notoriously are shite at probability while thinking that they're good, because they think that intuition works.)
We have a fair 6-sided die. I am asked the probability of a 6 coming up on the next throw. I say, 1 in 6, which is quite right. The die is thrown and comes up 6. Does that mean my statement of probability was wrong? According to you, yes. According to actual probability, no.
Now that leads to the problem, how can you tell that a probabilistic forecast is wrong? Suppose I'd said, the probability of a 6 coming up is 4 in 6 - which is wrong, and a 6 comes up. You would have said that my statement was correct, of course. And the answer is that that you cannot say whether an individual forecast was wrong. At best, you can say that it increases the chance it was wrong. You need a large sample before you can have confidence that someone's predictive model is wrong, and you will still never be able to say that a single probability prediction was wrong unless the prediction was 0% or 100%.
This, of course, annoys people who want definitive answers. "Who will win the next election?" "X has a 70% chance, so is more likely to win." "No, who do you think will win?" "I just told you". "Yes, but who you think will win?" "See my previous answer, and now fuck off".
Do you understand the difference between a forecast (no one has voted yet) and calling an election (most votes have been counted)? Every percent of the vote that is counted makes the outcome clearer. It's not like they call an election with 10% of the vote in.
What the networks should have done, is make sure that cheating didn't happen in the election, by pestering the Sec. of States to provide their procedures and open up the election to sunlight.
Would have been nice to see coverage of checking the chain of custody for all ballots entering the counting centers, with double checks that the number of voters in each precinct adds up to the total number of votes.
Every single analysis of every single election has come back with the same response: no widespread fraud. It happens when Rs do it, when Ds do it, when independent panels do it, when courts rule on it, when virulent advocates of widespread voter fraud (like Chris Kobach or Johnny-come-lately Ron DeSantis) do it, when scientists do it, when politicians do it … basically every time it has ever been looked at.
Whether it’s “chain of custody”, “verification of signatures”, “truckloads of ballots”, “suitcases from under the table”, “illegal changes in voting rules”, or any other complaint, every time they are looked at they turn out to be untrue, irrelevant to the outcome, a complaint that people were allowed to vote, or some other version of “more people voted against my candidate and for the one I hate”.
The reason that the networks didn’t “make sure that cheating didn’t happen” is that it’s impossible for a network to do that. Plus wasting resources talking about two dozen unwittingly fraudulent votes is a terrible business decision for a news organization.
It’s a terrible waste of resources for Florida and Kansas, too, but if it’s in the politicians’ political best interest what’s a few million dollars of taxpayer money?
Facts? How about predetermining the election outcome and then curating the vote count?
Well, when that happens, let us know.
The only genuine relevant manipulation in 2020 was getting in-person ballots counted before mail-in ballots so that ignorant people, seeing vote totals swinging away from Trump, would attribute the swing to fraud, rather than a consequence of when ballots could be counted.
Even though the election night surge for Democrats was widely predicted and discussed for months before the election.
Oh really? Where?
Because I'm old enough to remember 3 1/2 months ago when even Democrats were surprised that there wasn't a red wave.
The "facts" you make up, Mike.
I don’t think he makes anything up. That requires independent thought.
His masters email him his talking points. They’re the ones who make shit up.
I think he's talking about the presidential election, where a late surge was predicted well before the election, not least by Republicans.
Haven't seen a reply yet, SRG:
Yeah, the DOJ strong-arming news outlets to withhold information damaging to Biden really wasn’t a big deal, right?
Still waiting for a reply from lefty shit claiming no election interference, lefty shit.
Seems lefty shit SRG finds the DOJ strong-arming media outlets to withhold damaging news regarding prior to the election not really relevant, right asshole?
It's called preparation for fortification, dipshit.
"preparation for fortification"
That's called complete fantasy by anyone with a functioning brain. Considering how hard Rs tried (and tried, and tried, in some places) to discover voter fraud, the only two conclusions would be that it didn't happen or the Rs were in on it.
Shit, even Ron DeSantis and Chris Kobach only found a handful of cases and almost all of them were people unknowingly voting when they weren't eligible. Not a single sign of coordinated voter fraud or "fortification".
Unless they've gotten to Kobach and DeSantis, too! My God! The conspiracy is bigger than anyone thought!
Well, they were certainly in on something, judging by those R votes in the Villages in Florida who skated despite their obviously fraudulent votes.
Yeah, the DOJ strong-arming news outlets to withhold information damaging to Biden really wasn't a big deal, right?
You are aware of elections before 2020, right? And the well known, if not "documented", fraud that went on in most cities and precincts?
And the rational question is not fraud or no fraud, but how much, what types, and what impact.
"And the rational question is not fraud or no fraud, but how much, what types, and what impact."
And the rational answers are: almost none, mostly honest mistakes, and none.
For the irrational answers, check any posts that claim the election was stolen from Trump. Or Lake. Or Walker. Or [insert Republican who underperformed here].
"But I saw a video of someone putting a suitcase through a ballot counting machine on a truck headed to New Jersey that had flown in from China according to an affidavit I read about something a bloke overheard in a pub!"
You mean, by following The Shining Path Ass Shown to us by Trump?
Der TrumpfenFuhrer ***IS*** responsible for agitating for democracy to be replaced by mobocracy!
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/24/politics/trump-election-warnings-leaving-office/index.html
A list of the times Trump has said he won’t accept the election results or leave office if he loses.
Essential heart and core of the LIE by Trump: “ANY election results not confirming MEEE as Your Emperor, MUST be fraudulent!”
September 13 rally: “The Democrats are trying to rig this election because that’s the only way they’re going to win,” he said.
Trump’s constant re-telling and supporting the Big Lie (any election not electing Trump is “stolen”) set up the environment for this (insurrection riot) to happen. He shares the blame. Boys will be boys? Insurrectionists will be insurrectionists, trumpanzees gone apeshit will be trumpanzees gone apeshit, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Trump was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?
It really should immediately make us think of Krystallnacht. Hitler and the NAZIs set up for this by constantly blaming Jews for all things bad. Jew-haters will be Jew-haters, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Hitler was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?
I say again, “Under Der TrumpfenFuher, the “R” party will NOT rest until it is the ONLY party!”
Why is it?
If you need proof of what I say, read https://reason.com/2020/12/20/desperate-to-stop-biden-from-taking-office-trump-suggests-military-intervention-voting-machine-seizures-and-appointing-sidney-powell-to-investigate-her-own-fraud-claims/ Desperate To Stop Biden From Taking Office, Trump Suggests Military Intervention, Voting Machine Seizures, and Appointing Sidney Powell To Investigate Her Own Fraud Claims
Trump flunkies want to use martial law to hold new elections in swing states that didn’t vote Trump. Use the military to force a do-over where the people didn’t vote for Trump like they were supposed to. Give them a second bite at the apple.
And there will be endless do-overs till these wayward slobs do things the RIGHT way, and vote for Der TrumpfenFuhrer!
Those states who voted for Der TrumpfenFuhrer? Texas, for instance? And now that time has gone by, and millions of Texans have seen yet MORE of the “true stripes” of the Trumptatorshit… And they voted for Trump, but are SOOOO disgusted by now, they want to vote differently by now… Do THEY get a do-over?
Let’s selectively re-play this game till the Trumptatorshit lasts forever!
The ONLY way that states that DID vote for the continuation of the Trumptatorshit, will get a re-vote, to make it all “fair” to people who’ve changed their minds, by now, or who were excluded from voting by “R” machinations or being too busy or sick that day, to vote… The ONLY way that voters in THESE states will get a “second bite at the apple”, is to make up utterly fantastical LIES about the “R” party’s cheating, collusion with Lizard Men, etc.!
If the Lizard Men stole it last time, what will keep them from stealing it the next time around?
What we are CLEARLY evolving towards here, is NOT election wins by the most votes or even electoral college votes, it is “WINNING” by “He who whines and cries and makes up lies, the most”!
WHY, oh WHY might it be, that people who don’t like the history of 1-party states, are afraid to vote “R” any more?
Fuck off with your heckler's vetoes, trollboy.
Don't you have some Salon links to post at 9gag?
What we are CLEARLY evolving towards here, is NOT election wins by the most votes or even electoral college votes, it is “WINNING” by “He who whines and cries and makes up lies, the most”!
And HERE is Marxist Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer to provide us all with a case in point!
Like I said, SQRLSY on the weekend is amped up.
Too bad he doesn’t go play on the interstate. Or check and see if he can safely jump form a ten story building. Or pretend to be the Human Torch using gasoline and a lighter.
To be faier to thiose viewers, Fox's decision desk also called FL for Trump.
No one was expecting such an anomalous simultaenous result.
Remember that in 1996, AZ was not called for Clinton until well after IA, OH, and FL were.
The real mystery was why no one called Pennsylvania for Trump, when he had what would have been an insurmountable lead in any other state, based on the margin of mail-in votes to in-person votes. Yet all the networks seemed to know that Biden would win the state when the boxes of mail-in votes were counted overnight.
In contrast to Georgia, where the uncounted urban precincts were clearly expected to break heavily for Biden.
I remember viewing my Twitter feed after OH was called for Trump.
there was som much cauterwauling.
I fully believe that democrats would rather have a collapsing economy and a nuclear war, than have Trump back as president.
Because their models were better than yours, presumably.
Who walked away from their networks now?
Speaking of women, a headline from the WSJ:
Kamala Harris Says Russia Has Committed Crimes Against Humanity
Is this a baby step by the Veep to show global leadership chops?
Also, is not-yet-a-headline, Mayor Secretary Pete says the problem in Ukraine is that the Russian army is not diverse enough.
Mayor Pete is a joke.
His backers did briefly try to burnish his leadership cred by having him comment on the Chinese weather balloon.
He probably criticized it for being white.
Move the reply button
Too many Russkis in that army?
Global leadership chops? Harris was briefly put forward as a potential mediator before the war, and you saw how that turned out.
And let's not forget her first major international assignment, resolving the USA-Mexico border crisis. A single visit by the VP and the issue is now under control.
"...Harris was briefly put forward as a potential mediator before the war, and you saw how that turned out..."
Well, not really a fair test; they couldn't get the two sides to stop laughing...
I think Putin was actually trolling us several months back about how diverse his army was. Chechens, Buddhists, various reindeer raising demographics and ethnic niches…
https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/1626411810869096450?t=YA8fKNiHJhrjYCMWSjLsoA&s=19
OHIO UPDATE
If it doesn’t get WEIRDER than this! 3 months ago East Palestine, OH was at the center of pilot program to respond to EMERGENCY situations
They gave digital ID’s FOR FREE to residents to track long term health problems like “difficulty breathing”
Still, they permitted—even welcomed—advocates of those theories on Fox airwaves because the audience liked it.
We're still complaining about platforming people with undesirable views?
Sure, at least THOSE people.
That’s one way to spin it. Another is supposed journalists platforming people who are known liars.
But enough about politicians…
Like CNN platforming James Clapper, Don Lemon and Brian Stelter.
NBC returned lyin’ Brian Williams to duty after keeping him off long enough for their mouthbreather audience to forget he had been bullshitting them.
I suppose that is supposed to be a “gotcha” because I am presumably a CNN-swallowing liberal. Except all those presumptions are incorrect.
"Fair and balanced" typically means you listed to both sides of an issue. The other networks should try it once in a while.
Fox News does employ a fairly large number of left leaning people. None of the other cable or broadcast news networks have any actual conservatives or libertarians. Just ‘republicans’ like Joe Scarborough, or Adam Kinginger.
Because the moment any conservative or right-winger appears on any of those shows he is instantly dubbed a RINO or worse.
You can't have it both ways, ask for balance on the left-leaning programmes and then insist that their appearing on such programmes means that these right-wingers aren't really right wingers, conservatives, etc.
Wrong. The only people they want are leftist sellouts like Scarborough. They have no real conservatives. Certainly no one who has anything approaching a favorable opinion of Trump, and probably DeSantis too.
Yeah that's my problem. Reason is framing this story in a way that would require Fox to refuse to host Sidney once they had decided her claims were dubious. Instead of letting viewers make up their own minds. Her initial claims would have required someone inside Dominion with hard evidence and she claimed that that person existed. OK I'll play along. When it became clear that she wouldn't or couldn't produce that evidence I moved on. It doesn't matter how many times she appeared on Fox. Demanding that Fox censor the story isn't a legitimate libertarian position.
Private company!!!
Are you surprised that reasonmag is taking a stance that demonstrates a lack of integrity? Or hyping a false equivalence? Yes, the fox news folks did some ethically shady shit, color me shocked. When a day goes by w/o the same occurring across the major networks and print media, then it's news. The NYT story isn't covered in the same manner, or detail, which shouldn't surprise me. Reason, no matter how often the 'editors' and staff insist that it and they are libertarian, hasn't been particularly libertarian for more than a decade.
On your argument, Fox should give airtime any lunatic with a claim until they can demonstrate the claim to be false.
But the more relevant point is that once Fox continued to promote Squidney, knowing that she was FOS, they are open to defamation suits.
I'm not scared of anybody's opinions or claims about anything. Not sure why you are unless you don't trust your own ability to reach a logical conclusion. MSNBC and CNN have for years featured the insane, verifiably false rantings of people like Schiff and Clapper and yet somehow Reason never featured an anguished demand for civil intervention. Fox gave Sidney, a well respected attorney, an opportunity to state her evidence. When she failed to do so they ceased to do so and stated on air that her claims could not be verified. Dominion is a huge corporation involved in elections all over the world. The idea that they can prove actual malice on the part of Fox News is preposterous. This is a frivolous lawsuit that really doesn't deserve the attention I personally have wasted on it let alone a "libertarian" publication. And you, well you're just an idiot.
“Not sure why you are unless you don’t trust your own ability to reach a logical conclusion.”
Many progressives (ie: Tony) don’t trust themselves to use logic or reason or not murder people if they were to ever own a gun. They then project that on to everyone else and assume that the biggest bully in the yard needs to keep EVERYONE in check or they’ll give in to the sick desires that only THEY hold.
Fox built their newsroom around... oh wait, that was the New York Times. Never mind.
https://twitter.com/akheriaty/status/1626816066948145152?t=gEwoFm2IoGwtU21DY4TjNg&s=19
The scientists always knew this was a lie in 2020. Most of them refused to speak up. I was fired over this issue from the University of California, where I had spent my entire career in academic medicine.
[Link]
Who ever believed they could make a vaccine that would produce better-than-natural immunity? That claim seemed to come out of nowhere and suddenly it was everywhere.
Especially against a virus, and a rushed vaccine at that. But we were supposed to believe that the KungFlu vaccines were the first anti viral vaccines in history to be foolproof.
Really? Because that's literally the lefts playbook. Just look at cunt nolen browns article saying that people critical of the epa and dot over a toxic spill are conspiricy theorists
"Its arguments rest heavily on the assumption that what to think about trans identity and how to address its presentation in medical settings are purely matters of settled science that should, by now, be wholly excluded from public debate."
No, this is just a tactic. Using words will old-school definitions, we can translate this as "Progressives want their opinions enshrined as legal doctrine." And then they want to use that power to reform society. You know, cultural Marxism.
That's a fairly accurate description of "shit sandwich A" that we have ass a choice given to us, yes. "Shit sandwich B", right now, is the Trumpist choice, where "the settled science" is that all non-Team-R votes are fraudulent! One-party "Team R" rule, here we come!
"Sensible sandwich C" = libertarians? Yes, but THAT will NOT satisfy the self-righteous punishment boners of those who MUST punish the BAD people!
Conservatives who criticize "libs" for being compassionate with other people's money? Maybe reach for a Grand Compromise, and STOP being compassionate with other people's wombs! Maybe we can ALL give up MANY of our self-righteous punishment boners!
Nothing makes Sqrlsy madder than someone labeling trans issues as Marxist.
Nothing makes Mammary-Fuhrer madder than someone insisting that the votes should be counted honestly!
You're right! There should be an investigation and an audit to clear things up, right Sqrlsy?
Even the precedent of half the country thinking the election was stolen, is bad.
If you think it wasn't stolen, you should be eager to set this to rest.
Resistance to anyone who questions the results, through disingenuous means like gaslighting, censorship, and demonizing, could make people think that the election really was stolen.
Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
Off the top of my head, there were 50 or so audits and double-checks, and NONE of them even came CLOSE to revealing ANYTHING that could have changed the results! To pick just ONE:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/arizona-republicans-release-findings-widely-panned-election-audit-2021-09-24/
'Truth is truth': Trump dealt blow as Republican-led Arizona audit reaffirms Biden win
There's many more of the same out there! It is WAAAAY past time for "Team R" to STOP whining, crying, and lying!
“Audit”
LOL
Off the top of my head, there were 50 or so audits and double-checks
Great! Then off the top of your head you should be able to list a couple.
Remember, recounts aren't audits. Especially when the veracity of the ballots is disputed. You said audits.
I don't humor Perfect Sea Lions who already have Perfectly Made Up Minds Already. It's a waste of time!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-false-or-misleading-claims-total-30573-over-four-years/
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/exhaustive-fact-check-finds-little-evidence-of-voter-fraud-but-2020s-big-lie-lives-on
Mammary-Fuhrer will now disprove them by saying "from the wrong tribe" and "I didn't read them or approve of them, therefor they are LIES!!!"
Good job. Exactly neither of those links reference your claim to there being fifty audits.
Instead you post a bunch of slurs, misapprehensions and outdated lies from two years ago, that have since been disproven by subsequent events.
This is exactly what I thought you'd try and pull.
Did you know M. Scott Peck talks about folks like you, Sqrlsy? He calls you "People of the Lie".
Oh, well PLEASE forgive me for getting the number wrong!!!
https://www.michigan.gov/sos/Resources/News/2021/03/02/more-than-250-audits-confirm-accuracy-and-integrity-of-michigans-election
MORE than 250 audits in Michigan alone!!!! There, there, now, My Precious Little Sweet Cheeks, is THAT better now?
https://apnews.com/article/voter-fraud-election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-7fcb6f134e528fee8237c7601db3328f
Far too little vote fraud to tip election to Trump, AP finds
One of ZILLIONS of results out there all saying the same thing!!! Are ALL the media folks, and ALL of the Lizard People, out to GET You now?
Trolls are historically allergic to sunlight.
"“Progressives want their opinions enshrined as legal doctrine.”"
See also: Roe
“Progressives can’t imagine someone who doesn’t want their own opinions enshrined as legal doctrine.
The NYT is about as sincere as Pravda. And Reason is getting there.
What makes Reason worse in a sense is its deliberate betrayal of its mission, purpose and core philosophy. The NYT never had a real philosophy like libertarianism to betray.
The Libertarian's Lament: "They told me I'd be able to shoot my six-guns while snorting blow off a hooker's tits, but all I got was refugees pissing on my lawn."
Suckers!
Future Reason stories:
- Pravda and the NY Post are both at least a little biased
- Just like in the US, life in North Korea can sometimes be challenging
- Free markets or communist collectives: someone sometimes still goes hungry
This year do not worry about money you can start a new Business and do an online job I have started a new Business and I am making over $84, 8254 per month I was started with 25 persons company now I have make a company of 200 peoples you can start a Business with a company of 10 to 50 peoples or join an online job.
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The claim that Tucker Carlson didn't state his objections to Sidney Powell's nonsense is factually incorrect. I remember quite clearly when Carlson stated that they had investigated her claims, found that none of them could be substantiated, and invited Powell to come on the show and provide the evidence. After six attempts, he then aired a segment saying that Powell would not appear, and that they were assuming her claims were false.
Just as you say later in your commentary here, details matter, and there are penalty points for not being accurate.
This is why I can never take anything a leftist says at face value. A huge percentage of the things they say are verifiable lies and distortions. Much of the time I don’t even bother to investigate their claims. I just assume they’re lying and move on.
Soon they will only be credible with democrats who believe whatever pablum they’re fed. If they’re not their already.
THE BEST WOMEN WERE MEN FIRST!!
Which just means he great majority of people, anywhere, any time, aren't radical or extreme. "Extreme" is useful as a descriptor only in the context of a distribution, and to any distribution there's an average. And the average is always somewhat libertarian, because there's always opinion more authoritarian than average. Everything is relative.
We happen to have clustered at an extreme, because we're radical and therefore can't think of any good reasons to override our opinions in another direction. Most people in all areas of life balance considerations against each other; even we do so when it comes to something other than our hobby horse.
Like everyone, Bonnie eventually had to say something dumb: "The answer, ..., is that it is good, actually, to take seriously ideas held by tens of millions of people in this country." Tens?! Abe Lincoln got 2.2 million votes in 1864, 10% more than the rape & slavery opposition. Gary Johnson got nearly twice as many votes, yet still changed bad laws because we threw the electoral votes of 13 states out of the control of looter soft machines. Before the LP, potheads, queers went straight to prison, conscription enslaved youth. Libertarian spoiler votes let ordinary citizens cause the looters to repeal those bad laws. (https://bit.ly/3QpGuKk)
Wow, we're gonna "bowf sidez" the trans issue? One of the most brutally forced, anti-science, delusional ideologies to come straight out of the academies and jammed into your HR department with miles of bodies in its wake?
Fuuuuuuck you.
Who's giving up on "persuasion" now?
Who gave up on persuasion now?
Who gave up on persuasion now?
Sterilize your gay kid, because they were just born in the wrong body! PROGRESS!
Who gave up on persuasion now?
You can't even be pro Ukraine war and survive the Trans Menace.
More libertarian coverage of the trans issue. Trigger warning: Reason contributor, Brendan O'Neill.
I cannot help but think the LGB organization are the Trotskyites against the Trans Stalinists. One is a somewhat less dangerous shade of radical, but it is more a matter of degree than kind.
Ha! Journolismingification at its best:
The order came after the police failed to meet key requirements of the settlement, including inappropriate use and management of force during 2020′s racial justice protests, inadequate training and subpar supervision of officers.
Portland, Seattle Media. “Racial justice protests” during 2020. In Portland.
But January six was “an attack’. Compare and contrast.
It would literally be 100% accurate for me to describe what happened in Portland during 2020 and 2021 and a lot of 2022 fyi, as mob violence, and January 6 as a n "election justice" protest.
Literally 100% legitimate.
Psychology, politics, economics, philosophy. The first drives all the others.
In psychology, a healthy outlook is a win-win outlook. Win-lose and lose-lose transactions are called “Games,” and are unhealthy / dysfunctional.
To the extent that government works to promote Liberty (opportunities for all to engage in voluntary win-win transactions in life), and to punish win-lose scenarios, that society and government are healthy. It should be noted that any policy which promotes win-lose outcomes is “totalitarian,” inherently dysfunctional and unhealthy to some degree – that it is not 100% totalitarian does not make it “good” for the same reason that any compromise with evil is still evil. Government whispers in your ear, “I’m not REALLY going to screw you, just the tip – I promise!
This simple outlook can allow anyone to evaluate any law, policy regulation or rule and objectively determine if it is working FOR the people, or against them. Forced to present proposals in these terms, most government initiatives would fail.
We are well on our way to a completely dysfunctional / totalitarian society.
Marxists approve.
https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1627105907577323525?t=RJeQVNccDP7IHwqOZYjxAw&s=19
Stopping this is a matter of highest importance. There's no Equitable Protection Clause in any of the Constitutional amendments. This will endanger and kill many Americans, harm the economy, and threaten national security, on top of the grift and demoralization.
[Link]
"This simple outlook can allow anyone to evaluate any law, policy regulation or rule and objectively determine if it is working FOR the people, or against them."
People being forcibly compassionate with the money of OTHER people... Is this working FOR the people, or against them?
People being forcibly compassionate (pro-"safety") with the gun-ownership choices of OTHER people... Is this working FOR the people, or against them?
People being forcibly compassionate with the WOMBS of OTHER people... Is this working FOR the people, or against them?
People being forcibly compassionate (pro-"free speech") with the privately-owned web-site moderation choices of OTHER people... Is this working FOR the people, or against them?
Genuinely intelligent and well-informed people (AKA libertarians) will argue against forced "compassion" (and variations of the same) in ALL of the above cases! Such creatures are QUITE rare in these comments pages!
https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1627098945359867904?t=QacuYNyh1h5UePLygqCTCA&s=19
TWITTER FILES #16
Comic Interlude: A Media Experiment
[Thread]
I wonder just HOW MUCH propaganda will be needed to "cover-up" the EXTREMELY skeptical 2020 election results?? Right off the bat the sitting president HAD to be censored. Oh then the, "Well yeah; issues this, issue that, etc, etc, etc..." is "no big deal" and "wouldn't have changed the results anyways"... And well; last second E.O. changes to voting methods pans out a big "Oh whoop-de-do" ... COVID, COVID, COVID...
THREE F'En years later and the media is still dishing out narrated propaganda. I'd say the "it didn't happen" insistence just about seals the guilt.
“And maybe disagreeing with the signatories of the letter makes most Americans ignorant or hateful or both, but that doesn’t change the fact that there’s disagreement.”
And maybe the signatories of the letter are quasi-religious zealots attempting to make disagreement with their rationally absurd dogma an unspeakable thought.
That definitely can’t be it. They’re supported by
activistsexperts!You know who I’m talking about. The same kind of experts that led us scathe-free through the pandemic, and those not at all stoking race relations. Those guys are fucking geniuses.
I'd be content if politics JUST obeyed the US Constitution.
If it's not an enumerated power; it's an act of treason.
If ours is not the majority view, neither preemptively claiming victory nor cravenly accepting defeat will accomplish the change we want. Persuasion might not accomplish it either, but it's at least worth a try.
There is another reason to engage in debate that the author does not mention. We might be wrong. And if we are, we may never realize it if we refuse to honestly debate people that disagree with us.
While it might be GOOD to try to persuade people with whom you disagree, most of us have no control over the platforms where those discussions might take place. I tried to persuade friends and relations over many years on Facebook, for example, before I finally quit Facebook over increasingly demeaning bans by partisan censors. I don't bother to watch Fox any more because it's all shouting all the time with very little discussion and even less "news." I cannot even read mainstream newspapers any more because they no longer even pretend to print verified facts or avoid spinning them to support their narrative. So where, exactly is the public good of persuasion supposed to take place, Reason?
This is embarrassing Reason. How you can equate these two journalistic phenomena in such a "both-sides" type of way is astonishing. FOX was not merely giving its viewers what they want but in cahoots directly with large wealthy investors and promoting a politician. Explaining this away as "giving viewers what they want" is probably the most cynical thing we will hear for a while. What journalistic principle is being upheld here? Ignore the truth and report lies if that's what the paying customers want?
Meanwhile, the NY Times attempts to give a balanced account about transgender issues and Reason is using this proper use of journalism to prop up and launder FOX news' corrupt practices. Supposedly the NY Times did the transgender story to appease the non-woke readership base. And since they can pander to their so-called base so too can FOX! But....what happened to the woke base the NY Times is always being called out on? Couldn't we reframe this to say that DESPITE having a woke readership the Times decided to let facts and reason govern their story instead of caving to the base in a craven pursuit of profit. That narrative would make FOX look bad though.
Biden (D) - Harris (D) did manage something tangible they set out to accomplish.
I think the democrats have wanted this since Hillary ran in 2016. Maybe before.
"Now would be a good time to throw a big cocktail party in New York or Washington, and invite every single conservative writer you know. #RedWedding2"
That's the full quote. Did Welch call for "...all conservative writers be invited to a red-wedding style mass-slaughter..."? If in your fevered dreams, he WAS calling for that, was it for the party-going writers to be the dishers-out of the violence, as the victims, or as mere spectators? If as spectators, for their amusement, or to demonstrate the real horrors of real violence to them? Or, to see MOVIES about red weddings? ... Y'all LOVE to rush to judgments, without any data, don't you? Whenever doing so, fits YOUR story line!
Follow the links and see lots of references to movies and TV shows, etc.
"Party at my place. Invite your teenaged relatives and friends. #StarWars"
Did I just issue an invitation to blow up ("I sense disturbances in the Force") entire planets full of teenagers, using Death Stars? ... Well, yes, if you hate me and my kind, and honesty means NOTHING to you, I could see you using my party invitation that way, sure...
There was that 2000 election where Florida was leaving Chad (et. al.) hanging.
Lol. A steel toe boot right in squirrel’s nuts.
Are you being obtuse on purpose?
https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Red_Wedding
Red Wedding specifically refers to a party in which the guests are deliberately killed. Your stupid fucking analogy does not.
Stop constantly being so fucking dishonest.
Now your going to copy and paste a five hundred line tantrum, because you're mad about being exposed as a piece of shit yet again, aren't you?
I don’t follow stupid TV shows, so no, I didn’t know that. See my comment immediately below.
Are YOU criticizing Welch for this questionable-meaning(s) allusion? I, for one, would urge adults who want to understand the ugliness of violence and revenge, to see “Clockwork Orange”. That has ZERO to do with me threatening ANYONE!!! Hello?!?!
If YOU are criticizing Welch for this, then this is VERY rich, coming from YOU, you literal and explicit peddler of suicide!
Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer, Supreme Demonic Director of Decay, Destruction, and Death, will now SPEAK! HARKKK silently and RESPECTFULLY, all ye lowly heathens, as She Directs Death, and announces WHICH few of us MIGHT deserve to live, and WHO all deserves to DIE-DIE-DIE!!!
https://reason.com/2022/01/25/did-these-three-officers-willfully-deprive-george-floyd-of-his-constitutional-rights/?comments=true#comment-9323626 “You should really join ᛋᛋqrlsy, ᛋᛋhrike. You two goosestepping fascists offing yourselves would definitely be a mitzvah.”
-Quote MammaryBahnFuhrer the “Expert Christian Theologian”, AKA Mother’s Lament, with a head full of cement
So Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer, Supreme Demonic Director of Decay, Destruction, and Death… WHEN are You going to STOP stealing the IDs of Your victims, and then posting kiddie porn in THEIR names, and then blaming THEM?
Inquiring minds want to KNOW, dammit!
And now you're proven to be a liar you try to redirect the conversation.
"Your stupid fucking analogy does not."
The inhabitants of the planet(s) destroyed by the Death Star who were innocently partying, working, and playing their lives away... Were NOT killed? Why does it matter if they were invited, invited themselves, or just happened to be there? Hello?!??!
YOU say "invited or not, welcome or not, fartilized human egg smells have SACRED rights to reside in human wombs", yet now, all of a sudden, being INVITED to a party and getting killed is SOOOOO much worse than just BEING THERE and getting killed? What is the difference between invited v/s not-invited grown humans, v/s fartilized human egg smells? WHAT is Your Perfect Logic and principles, if You have any?
Hey wait, everyone!!! I've now decoded what Welch REALLY meant!
He meant that the conservatives should be invited to a party in which "Red Wedding" is screened for all viewers, so that conservatives ESPECIALLY could learn WHAT it is like, to be invited to a party, in order for KILLINGS happen! And then maybe the Party of Trump Cultists will STOP inviting YOU to THEIR Party, in which democracy is deliberately murdered!!!
THERE!!! I have decoded it ALL for you! You can thank me later!!!!
Let it go, man. You might as well argue with a goldfish.
What did I lie about? Your blood-lust has been documented by YOU!
You lied about Matt's intent.
Also, everyone here would like to see you disappear. Even your fellow Democrats here who are embarrassed by you. And I can hardly be the only one who thinks that you putting an end to yourself would make the world better. Heck, I bet even your mom and dad did.
So keep posting it. Even as a redirection. I'll proudly stand behind my statement.
"You lied about Matt’s intent."
And YOU, Oh Perfect One, lied horribly, and evilly, about the Utter Perfection of Your Perfect Mind-Reading Tinfoil Hate-Hat! HELLO?!?! You are NOT an Infallible Mind Reader!!!
My intent, by the way, is to WAKE YOU THE FUCK UP to Your Utterly Perfect Narcissism and smug self-righteousness!
Sqrlsy, in short, you're an idiot.
He, HEY!
/idiot
Then there's the bullshit they've pulled in Cook County (and Chicago) for a long time now.
There was an election for Cook County Board President in 2006 between Tony Peraica (R) and John Stroger (D-inc). Stroger resigned during the campaign, after winning the primary, and his son, Todd Stroger (D) took over. Now this is where it gets interesting. The campaigns had been close through election day; however, Stroger manages to have a final vote tally of 60%. There are a lot of suspicions about what exactly went on as multiple boxes of ballots from NW Cook County came in late after having been sent on-time from their respective precincts. The boxes not only came in late, but also had their seals broken. Not just a box or two, but all of the boxes. Somehow, these vans with the boxes went through a time warp, delaying them and breaking the box seals.
A flaming, flying squirrel. Might just be worth the price of admission to see that.
Democracy! The classic Chicago political machine kind.
But cleanest election ever!
Only if he lands in a pit of flaming napalm.
As clean as Biden’s (D) underpants.
I'm sorry that you suffer under the illusion that you know exactly what Matt Welch meant by that. There are MANY possible interpretations!
Below is my interpretation:
He meant that the conservatives should be invited to a party in which “Red Wedding” is screened for all viewers, so that conservatives (ESPECIALLY Trump-cultist conservatives) could learn exactly WHAT it is like, to be invited to a party, in order for KILLINGS happen! And then maybe the Party of Trump Cultists will STOP inviting YOU to THEIR Party, in which democracy is deliberately murdered!!! (I know that it is WAAAAY too much to ask, that they should actually STOP trying to murder democracy, there in the Trump-Cult Party.)
THERE!!! I have decoded it ALL for you! You can thank me later!!!!
There's no "decoding", you fucking idiot. Everyone knows what attending a Red Wedding means.
So then do You Perfectly Promise to ALWAYS recall that when I write about a "Red Wedding", that I mean the Trump-Cult Party where democracy is murdered? THAT is what happens, Perfect You should know, when ONE Party declares all votes for OTHER parties to be fraudulent!
(And MY tinfoil hat says that THAT message was the true intent behind Welch's tweet!)
Garbage people ALWAYS ASSume the VERY worst motives on the part of ANY people who do NOT belong to the precisely correct tribe!!!
MAN THE BARRICADES!!! The Satanic witches have stolen Trump's erection; OUR erections!!! Our contaminated erections are now being ground up into spamburger and are being force-fed to the children by Satanic groomers, who will turn the children into transsexual trannies from Transsexual Transylvania!!!! Won't someone PLEASE think of the children?!?!?
#MeInTheAss'CauseI'maGullibleLowBrowBlowHardConTard
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