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Technology

TikTok Is Not a National Security Threat

Bipartisan efforts to ban the app in America would be a great blow to our economy and our liberty.

Milton Mueller and Karim Farhat | 1.26.2023 12:30 PM

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Government attempts to ban TikTok in America would be great blow to our economy and our liberty. | Illustration: Lex Villena; Helen Haigh
(Illustration: Lex Villena; Helen Haigh)

For nearly three years, TikTok, the popular short-video social media app, has been under attack from the federal government. The United States, with the world's strongest constitutional protections for free speech and longtime advocacy of a globally open and free internet, is seriously considering banning a service that 94 million Americans use.

An August 2020 move by the Trump administration to ban TikTok by executive order was shut down by the federal courts, and the Biden administration has set in motion a governmental evaluation of the risk of apps connected to foreign adversaries. By now, seeing TikTok as a national security risk has spread on all levels of government and across both parties. Brandan Carr, a Republican member of the Federal Communications Commission, has made banning TikTok his personal crusade. Ten GOP-led state legislatures have passed laws dictating which applications their employees can access in response to the alleged threat. In the final days of the 117th Congress, a bill banning TikTok on government devices passed the Senate unanimously. A bill to ban TikTok completely was introduced by two Senate Republicans—Marco Rubio (Fla.) and Mike Gallagher (Wisc.) and one Democrat—Raja Krishnamoorthi (Ill.)—on December 13. Just this week, Sen. Josh Hawley (R–Mo.) added another "ban TikTok" bill to the pile.

While its enemies paint it as nothing but a tool of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), TikTok is a private, commercial business with multinational ownership. The app has attracted an enormous community outside of China who enjoy using it to watch and exchange videos, comments, and live sessions. That community exceeds 90 million in the United States alone. In 2022, TikTok became the third most popular internet service worldwide, generating healthy competition against the dominant platforms of Meta (Facebook, Instagram) and Alphabet (Google, YouTube).

The content on TikTok is produced by its users, American and worldwide, not by an enemy foreign government. Anti-communists and communists, woke progressives and religious conservatives are all present on TikTok. Shutting it down would silence the speech of 94 million U.S. users, none of whom are in China or Chinese citizens. What government agrees with this nation's wannabe TikTok banners? China's, where TikTok is banned precisely because it does not follow Chinese censorship restrictions.

The controversy over TikTok in the U.S. is part of a larger debate over strategic competition between the U.S. and China and has profound implications for freedom of expression and regulatory policy. This debate affects international trade in the digital economy and internet freedom. "National security" cannot be a trump card that can be invoked to do just anything—especially for a so-called threat to security as tenuous as TikTok's functions and connection with the Chinese government.

 

What Is TikTok?

The facts about TikTok's history and corporate organization do not support the theory that the app is a Trojan horse for hostile Chinese government schemes. TikTok is a product of ByteDance, a multinational firm incorporated in the Cayman Islands. ByteDance is a joint product of Chinese computer entrepreneurs, western capital, and a globalized internet. This fusion started in 2012, when the parent company ByteDance was founded in a Beijing apartment.

ByteDance was incorporated in the Cayman Islands because this was how Chinese tech entrepreneurs gained access to western capital while remaining nominally compliant with government restrictions on foreign investment. Today, ByteDance investors are global institutional funds and venture capital firms including its first big U.S investor Susquehanna International Group Ltd. (which bought a 15 percent stake for $5 million in 2012 that is now worth an estimated $15 billion), KKR, Sequoia Capital, Softbank, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs Group, Weibo, and others.

ByteDance's original apps for the Chinese market included Douyin, a short-form video-sharing platform in China. The key to its success was its A.I. application which feeds user behavior back into its recommendation engine. It generated a growth cycle attracting users' time and attention and pulling in additional users. Usually this was monetized by means of advertising. If this sounds familiar, it is because that is exactly how big American social media platforms work.

TikTok launched in the U.S. in May 2017 although the A.I. engine and its engineers were based in China. The U.S. company TikTok Inc. is held by TikTok Ltd., a holding company in the Cayman Islands, itself a subsidiary of ByteDance Ltd., also legally based in the Caymans. TikTok Inc. is incorporated in California and Delaware and employs thousands of Americans.

 

The Chinese Government's Role in TikTok

None of ByteDance's services received early investment funds or subsidies from Beijing. On the contrary, China's manufacturing-focused industrial policy starved digital platforms of capital, which is why so many of them engaged in "creative" organizational forms to raise capital from the West. In its early years, Chinese censors repeatedly disciplined Douyin because its algorithms recommended content that was popular with users but deemed "immoral" or not in support of "socialist values."

Eventually, Douyin reached the size and profitability for the CCP to move in. On April 30, 2021, ByteDance's Chinese subsidiary Douyin sold a 1 percent stake to Wang Tou Zhong Wen Technology, which is owned by three state entities. One of them is linked to the China Internet Investment Fund (CIIF), which is backed by the Cyberspace Administration of China (CAC), the nation's central internet regulator.

In a letter to lawmakers in June 2022, the CEO of the U.S.-based TikTok Inc. confirmed that the transaction with the CAC-linked state-owned enterprise was necessary to obtain licenses for several China-based content applications. This bargain has been misrepresented as a "golden share" that gives Chinese censors control over TikTok. In fact, the stake gave CIIF a board seat on Douyin, the subsidiary that operates mainland China services. It did not give the CIIF a board seat on ByteDance Ltd. or TikTok Ltd., the global entities.

TikTok is a market-driven organization, not a political or military one. ByteDance wants to export A.I. to international markets. It can't succeed in doing that if it is seen as an agent of a foreign power. The Chinese government also has every reason to favor continued segregation of the information services market in the way ByteDance/TikTok has structured it. China's one-party state would have a difficult time handling exposure to unfiltered external media sources. China's incentives are to stay in control of what it already controls—a huge domestic market with a restricted and subordinated digital economy.

Nonetheless, many in the U.S. government insist TikTok somehow exports Chinese censorship, or that its recommendation algorithm is manipulated by the CCP, or that it is or could become a powerful propaganda outlet for the Chinese state.

All three assertions can be empirically tested. All are false.

TikTok is not censored by the Chinese government. A 2021 technical examination of its software and control processes by the University of Toronto's CitizenLab proved that the keyword blocks and censorship mechanisms included in ByteDance's Douyin app, which is used in China, have been eliminated from the two versions of the software released outside of China.

Proof that censorship is not happening can be had by simply finding content on TikTok that would be banned by the CCP. The following topics would be tightly controlled if the app were subject to Chinese government control:

  •     Falun Gong, an anti-communist religious movement that is persecuted in China;
  •     Advocacy of the independence of Taiwan;
  •     Claims that the Uyghurs in Xinjiang province are being exploited or oppressed;
  •     Ridicule of Chinese leader Xi Jinping;
  •     Demonstrations calling for the ouster of Xi or the CCP;
  •     Support for Hong Kong independence and positive portrayals of pro-democracy protesters.

Videos in all of these categories can easily be found on TikTok. Many are popular and widely shared. The mix of views is not unlike what might be found on Twitter, Google, or Facebook.

A search for "Xinjiang" reveals a list of related search terms that by themselves are likely illegal on Chinese social media, including "xinjiang fire," "xinjiang concentration camps," and "xinjiang internment camps." The top result was a video showing how a locked door enforcing the COVID lockdown led to deaths. Next in the list were videos of crackdowns on civilian protests against COVID lockdowns in Xinjiang in November; a video showing the faces of Muslims in China's detention camps; a video exposing several hundred quickly constructed square cabins to house Xinjiang detainees. Whoever or whatever controls these search results, it is not the CCP.

 

Is China Manipulating TikTok's Algorithm?

The For You feed is widely seen as TikTok's secret sauce. Its design and engineering come from ByteDance in Beijing, although TikTok and Douyin are separate, non-interoperable apps. When exported to the U.S., its short-video format and recommendation algorithm successfully predicts users' interests, encouraging continued engagement and growth. This accounts for TikTok's rapid commercial success against powerful entrenched competitors.

FBI Director Chris Wray purports to see in this successful algorithm a national security threat, not good old-fashioned free enterprise. China's government, he asserts, could "control the recommendation algorithm, which could be used for influence operations." Note that Wray does not assert that China's government currently controls the recommendation algorithm—it doesn't. No TikTok critics have provided any examples of this happening, and no TikTok users complain about it. Wray has no scientific basis for believing that a recommendation algorithm on one app can alter the political environment of an entire country.

Wray's scenario is self-defeating. Retooling the algorithm to recommend the messages of the CCP in defiance of user preferences would undermine the very thing that makes TikTok popular. CCP propaganda is not what the vast majority of TikTok's user base wants to see. Not many Americans get their endorphins from videos of Xi or militant images of Chinese nationalism.

Like all other platforms, TikTok does engage in content moderation, or restricting content considered harmful or unwanted by its users. Its recommendation algorithm can be tuned to limit the reach of certain kinds of content. In its early years (2017–2019), TikTok was not as transparent as other U.S. platforms about its moderation standards. Its policies reflected standards more appropriate to the suppressed Chinese environment. Submissions of any sort of political protest were often throttled in the name of a "happier," less divisive atmosphere on the platform, something hostile media blamed on Chinese government control.

But TikTok abandoned that policy because the restrictions were unpopular with users. Now its categories of restricted posts are very similar to the standards enforced by Facebook, YouTube, or Twitter. This learning process occurred in response to commercial and normative pressures from outside China. There is no evidence that the Chinese government interfered with it.

 

Is TikTok a Chinese Propaganda Organ?

If TikTok is not subject to Chinese censorship and its recommendation algorithm is not controlled by the Chinese state, then is TikTok a vehicle for the distribution of Chinese propaganda? A Forbes article in August 2022 tried to make this case, arguing that some ByteDance employees had a background in state media and that "China could use TikTok's broad cultural influence in the US for its own ends."

This argument also fails to establish a serious national security threat. News and opinion distributed by Chinese propaganda organs are already available in the U.S. Google happily points anyone to the English language website of the People's Daily, the official newspaper of the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party, which also has Twitter and Facebook accounts. Global Times, which is even more propagandistic than People's Daily, is available on the web and has 1.8 million followers on Twitter. If this material is a threat on TikTok, why is it not also a threat on Twitter, Google, YouTube, and the open web?

Ironically, calls to ban TikTok as a form of propaganda lead inexorably to an American version of China's Great Firewall: an internet in which the government censors foreign information sources. If nationalistic fears about Chinese influence operations cause a departure from American constitutional principles supporting free and open political discourse, we will have undermined our system of government more effectively than any Chinese propaganda could do.

 

Is TikTok a Cybersecurity Threat?

The strongest concerns about TikTok have been based on the claim that it can provide the Chinese government with data that poses a cybersecurity threat. The threat scenario rests on two key assumptions: 1) The data generated by TikTok provides China's state with unique and valuable insights into systemic U.S. vulnerabilities; 2) China's government can only get access to that data because TikTok's parent company, ByteDance, is Chinese.

Like all social media, TikTok collects a lot of data about its users. Security researchers have criticized some of TikTok's data collection practices, but these critiques pertain to individual privacy of users, not to national security threats, and most other social media platforms and mobile apps do the same things. Baptiste Robert, a French security researcher who studied the app, concluded that "TikTok's behavior is not suspicious and it is not exfiltrating unusual data. Getting data about the user device is quite common in the mobile world and we would obtain similar results with Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram and others."

We are not aware of any plausible scenario in which aggregate data from TikTok provides special insight into the control of critical infrastructure, military secrets, opportunities for corporate espionage, or knowledge of weapons systems—unless one thinks CIA agents are posting videos of their offices and colleagues on TikTok, or defense contractors are posting videos of employees dancing around prototypes of the latest weapons system.

If a U.S. military or intelligence official posts videos of a confidential military installation, or views or posts videos that would facilitate blackmailing that individual—that would be a national security issue. Those conditions do not apply to the overwhelming majority of TikTok users nor do they apply to most of the data.

Given the small number of individuals subject to this risk, it can be mitigated well short of a ban. Individuals in sensitive positions should be careful about what they upload or should not use TikTok at all. Importantly, the same risks apply to all social media, not just TikTok. TikTok, and the fact that its parent company is based in China, poses no unique threat.

TikTok's critics allege that its status as a Chinese-owned subsidiary means China's government can simply demand the app's data and get all of it. TikTok has segregated its U.S. operations from the Chinese-based app and claims it would not turn over the data. TikTok's incentives as a commercial enterprise are fully in line with this claim, as turning over this data would threaten its profitable business. 

Relying on TikTok's private incentives would not be advisable, however, if the aggregate data it gathers is truly unique, sensitive, and valuable. But there is no evidence that it is.

To put it bluntly, if China wants to spy on a social media user, it doesn't need to be a part owner of TikTok to do so. If a user's behavior and posts on TikTok expose confidential, valuable information related to national security, Chinese state intelligence could obtain that data simply by monitoring what is posted on TikTok (and LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, etc.). It could supplement this monitoring with an increasingly powerful array of open-source intelligence tools to correlate user activities and identities across multiple social media. Tools such as these can be used to monitor any social media application: LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit. Insofar as there is a threat of foreign intel agencies gaining access to social media data, it is not unique to TikTok and banning the app would not solve it.

 

The Dangers of a TikTok Ban

Banning TikTok would impose unfair harms on millions of innocent American users of the app, who have established equity in their creations and followers. It would expropriate investors and eliminate hundreds of U.S. jobs. Competition in the industry would be weakened.

Advertisers and event promoters would also suffer direct economic harm, as their plans or contracts to promote events or products using the app would be disrupted. A ban on an established app is both an interference with users' free expression rights and a costly economic intervention that would affect nearly 100 million Americans.

It would also risk retaliation against American businesses by China, and provide fuel for hitting U.S. firms with techno-nationalist and data protectionist policies in other countries. The U.S. economy would be the main loser if that happens. If foreign apps are considered inherently threatening, this is bad news for Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook, and virtually all American software companies, which do substantial business in foreign countries. It is unrealistic for Americans to think that they can act unilaterally against a Chinese company without China's government returning the favor in some way—Apple, which actually does control devices and not just app data, might especially be in the crosshairs if an international tech-banning war begins.

Foreign companies entering U.S. markets have been an important source of new competition since the 1970s and '80s. Foreign capital has funded startup competitors and new technologies. In some cases, foreign firms entered concentrated or oligopolistic U.S. markets, like the automobile industry, to enliven competition and innovation. The competition from TikTok was so strong that Facebook hired a lobbying firm to orchestrate a nationwide campaign against it. One can only speculate about how much of the so-called national security case against TikTok is really motivated by companies seeking protection from competition.

The unstated policy question behind the TikTok controversy is whether global markets can be integrated and function cooperatively even if their political systems are adversarial. Our answer is yes, they can and should be. Coexistence and trade is the only way forward. TikTok in its current form is an example of beneficial economic coexistence between the U.S. and China. It shows Chinese talent and capital escaping China's CCP by expanding to foreign markets and playing by international rules. It is a case of Americans profiting from investments in the Chinese market, and of Chinese companies offering innovative products and creating thousands of U.S. jobs.

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NEXT: Ticketmaster's Taylor Swift Glitch Doesn't Require a Congressional Hearing

Milton Mueller is a professor in the School of Public Policy at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta. His books include Ruling the Root: Internet Governance and the Taming of Cyberspace (MIT Press) and Networks and States: The Global Politics of Internet Governance (MIT Press).

Karim Farhat is a research scientist at Georgia Tech's Internet Governance Project.

TechnologySocial MediaTikTokMobile TechnologyInformation TechnologyFree SpeechChinaJosh HawleyNational SecurityCompetition
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  1. Chumby   2 years ago

    But what if Trump started posting on TikTok?

    1. Bill Falcon   2 years ago

      As a Georgia Tech Grad I am saddened to read this poorly written apology to Communist China. Ban this app...do it today. It is the most disgusting, vile, boorish, and destructive social media platform. Get rid of it.

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    2. Liberty Lover   2 years ago

      Trump would be immediately banned, and that ban would be supported by Reason. Problem solved. TDS will never end!

  2. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

    TikTok is a symbol of the globalist WEF Satanist baby-eating elite. Congress knows when to jump on a bandwagon.

    1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

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    2. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

      "TikTok is a symbol of the globalist WEF Satanist baby-eating elite."

      No, that's some power hungry billionaire who likes to shout "anti-semite!" at critics even though he was once an actual Nazi-party member and stole Jewish property.

      What was his name again? Something Hungarian. George Stavros... Soloss... Skaros... something...

      1. Chumby   2 years ago

        Pluggo the pedophilic porn peddler pushes progressive partisan politics

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        2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

          Very nice.

      2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

        It figures an unrepentant pedophile like Shrike would idolize and shill for a monster like Soros. I’m sure Jeffrey Epstein and those two poofs who just got busted in Georgia for raping and limping their adopted kids are his heroes too.

    3. Sevo   2 years ago

      turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
      If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
      turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

  3. Dillinger   2 years ago

    >>Georgia Tech's Internet Governance Project

    um, no gracias?

  4. Brian   2 years ago

    But what if, someone watched TikTok, and saw something that was...untrue?

    1. A Thinking Mind   2 years ago

      What if someone said something on TikTok and then someone on Twitter took what they said and reposted it to Twitter, perhaps with a brief comment or description of what's happening in their post? Sounds like subversive, threatening hate speech to me.

      1. Nardz   2 years ago

        Literally violent hate crime

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    2. BillyG   2 years ago

      "If"

      Hahaha. I saw so many hoaxes from TikTok thanks to my Lib friends. TikTok creates a big echo chamber. Terrible for mental health. It's literally driving people crazy.

  5. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    This is interesting.

    https://www.thecoldwire.com/who-owns-tiktok/

    ByteDance is based in Beijing, China, and has offices all over the world

    Zhang Yiming is the owner and founder of ByteDance.

    In the United States, TikTok is also allowed to collect biometrics such as the way your face looks and your voiceprint.

    1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      And here's the reason for the concern.

      https://www.worldtribune.com/tiktok-confirms-ccp-can-access-americans-personal-user-info/

      Employees of the video app TikTok who are based in China and tied to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) can access the personal data of the app’s users in the United States, the company admitted.

    2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/07/25/beware-tiktok-really-is-spying-on-you-new-security-report-update-trump-pompeo-china-warning/?sh=5d9f6eb84014

      With every week that goes by, it is becoming ever more critical to remind ourselves of what we know and what we don’t know. Yes, TikTok is a potential threat to the west, in as much as it is a Chinese-owned app now installed on hundreds of millions of devices. In a world where Facebook data has allegedly facilitated so much damage to political processes, so much manipulation and disinformation, to assume that TikTok doesn’t carry any serious threat is woefully naive.

  6. Mother's Lament   2 years ago (edited)

    “TikTok became the third most popular internet service worldwide, generating healthy competition against the dominant platforms of Meta (Facebook, Instagram) and Alphabet (Google, YouTube).”

    Every company on this list was started by Chinese and American government spooks. So wholesome.

    “While its enemies paint it as nothing but a tool of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), TikTok is a private, commercial business with multinational ownership.”

    Sure Facebook and Google were started with the CIA’s In-Q-Tel program; but it’s not like the alphabet agencies are still using those companies to spy on and censor people, right?
    So why would China? Ignore the congressional report saying otherwise. "You can trust the CCP" should be a libertarian motto.

    1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

      Yeah, this whole "nothing to see here!" argument absolutely stinks of media capture.

      Pre-pandemic, it was widely known and reported within the tech YouTube community that TikTok was CCP spyware, and if you consented to use it, you were basically letting the Chinese government do data mining and social engineering ops on you. The American tech companies aren't any different, but those ties didn't really became as well known (not that you couldn't have found plenty of older reporting on it over the last 25 years) until the Twitter files were released and people started noticing how many glowfags actually worked at these companies.

  7. Bill Godshall   2 years ago

    Looks like Reason is going All-In to promote and defend the Chinese Communists, who disdain and trample free minds and free markets (after they've stolen everything of value).

    1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      Charles Koch must have some kind of investment over there to protect.

  8. BlueStarDragon   2 years ago

    Chris Chappell China Uncensored has Several videos that shows a different story. I wish Reason would stop trying to defend TikTok. This is not a freedom of speech issue, It is a espionage issue.

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago (edited)

      What valuable espionage information could possibly be gained from a site where people post stupid videos? (The blog post above makes this point, by the way.)

      And why is it that conspiracy is so often spread by video, which is the hardest media format for a person who doesn't want to waste a bunch of their time on conspiracies? It can't be coincidence that conspiracy spreaders like a format where it is costly in terms of time to quickly ascertain their claims and refute them.

      1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

        "What valuable espionage information could possibly be gained from a site where people post stupid videos?"

        Are you being retarded on purpose again, Mike?

        Apps hoovering information and installing back doors on corporate and government employee phones has been an espionage trick since apps were invented. Stupid videos are the bait.

  9. Nardz   2 years ago

    Pfizer is

    1. Nardz   2 years ago

      https://twitter.com/Project_Veritas/status/1618405890612420609?t=8bqRagBLxW4bdte6-QHlYw&s=19

      BREAKING: @Pfizer Exploring "Mutating" COVID-19 Virus For New Vaccines

      "Don't tell anyone this...There is a risk...have to be very controlled to make sure this virus you mutate doesn't create something...the way that the virus started in Wuhan, to be honest."

      #DirectedEvolution

      [Link]

  10. Naime Bond   2 years ago

    Article reads like a Chinese press release. No censorship because otherwise you couldn't criticize Xi or sensitive topics? One, tik tok doesn't even work inside China, and two, arguing this is like arguing Rock Hudson isn't gay because the studio arranged a 'marriage' between him and a woman. Who sets out to spy on someone but doesn't allow the spy to criticize the spy's leader or policies? Isn't that how you gain someone's trust?

    But forget the article. To make it simple if Tik Tok is so harmless, so is google play, maps, news and so is facebook instagram tiktok reddit tumblr, snap chat whatsapp youtube netflix, hulu tubi hbo nbc fox, many search engines, wikipedia and dozens more apps - all banned or heavily censored in China. You have to be brain dead or a dyed in the wool communist to see how all of THEM are banned in China, but complain about our banning one of their apps. I thought libertarians were about 'free and open'?

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      "Article reads like a Chinese press release."

      Sure, just like a Chinese press release to include a list of topics that the Chinese government is suppressing: Falun Gong, Taiwan and Hong Kong independence, Uyghurs, ridicule of Xi Jinping, demonstrations.

      1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago (edited)

        Oh fuck off. Most of the Reasonistas have gone to ridiculous lengths to avoid the Uighur issue (and Hong Kong).

        All discussion of their plight here are from departed writers and producers, with the exception of Charles Oliver who wrote two whole sentences on a Center for Global Policy report, and Fiona Harrigan who doesn’t discuss the oppression but says making them immigrate to the US is the solution.

        You’re so consistently dishonest, White Mike.

        1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

          Of course he is. Mike fantasizes about the day when the US is just a client state of the ChiComs and freedom is gone.

    2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      "You have to be brain dead or a dyed in the wool communist to see how all of THEM are banned in China, but complain about our banning one of their apps. I thought libertarians were about ‘free and open’?"

      So you are arguing that if we were really libertarian we would be more like the Chinese government and ban more social media?

      1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

        No, that's not what he's arguing at all, you mendacious fuck. What the hell is wrong with you?

  11. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

    TikTok is a product of ByteDance, a multinational firm incorporated in the Cayman Islands. ByteDance is a joint product of Chinese computer entrepreneurs, western capital, and a globalized internet.

    And Christine Fang was just an enthusiastic volunteer for California Democratic candidates and policies.

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      Relevance?

      You know what was NOT in her spy's toolbox? Using an app to spy on her targets.

      1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

        How the hell do you know that?

        I don't quite know what you're trying to pull here, for the last 20 years almost half of all free computer or phone apps have been loaded with spyware. Why would you expect everyone to believe that the CCP is not doing that?

      2. Chumby   2 years ago

        Yo NPC
        White Mike baby
        White Mike baby
        Vanilla white Mike baby

        Alright. Stop, cawllaborate and listen,
        Mike is back with a brand new position.
        Some Dem grabs a hold of Dee tightly,
        Mike will boaff sidez daily and nightly.
        Will he ever stop? Yo I hope so,
        Break out the cite request fo sho.
        To the extreme, strawman like a vandal,
        Mike will gaslight any Biden scandal.
        ENB loves Mike so he wishes,
        Back to work, in the kitchen washing dishes.
        Go get the jab, I swear its effective,
        White Mike supports government collective.
        If there was a problem, team D caused it,
        Check out the sea lion when she claws it.

        White Mike baby,
        Vanilla white Mike baby,
        Vanilla white Mike baby.

        1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

          Vanilla Mike. I like that.

          1. Chumby   2 years ago

            That is to the tune of Ice Ice Baby if it wasn’t clear.

            1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

              You’re on fire (or ice) today!

      3. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

        woosh!

        1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

          Back at ya!

          I cannot be intimidated by snide remarks. Please explain to this dumb person precisely how your comment was relevant to the Tik Tok story.

  12. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

    No one fucking cares except beltway insiders

    1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

      And zoomers.

      1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

        Boomer zoomers?

  13. NOYB2   2 years ago

    TikTok Is Not a National Security Threat. Bipartisan efforts to ban the app in America would be a great blow to our economy and our liberty.

    Do you get paid for spreading Chinese propaganda or are you really this stupid?

  14. BillyG   2 years ago

    TikTok in China is very different from TikTok exported to the rest of the world. That's reason enough to ban it. China actions admit TikTok is bad for society. If TikTok was good then China would allow the same version inside of China.

    Seriously. Who thinks its good to allow China to have direct control over hours of video shown to Americans. Might as well allow Russia Today to force feed news to Americans.

    Ban it like this cancer it is.

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      From the blog post above:

      The following topics would be tightly controlled if the app were subject to Chinese government control:

      - Falun Gong, an anti-communist religious movement that is persecuted in China;
      - Advocacy of the independence of Taiwan;
      - Claims that the Uyghurs in Xinjiang province are being exploited or oppressed;
      - Ridicule of Chinese leader Xi Jinping;
      - Demonstrations calling for the ouster of Xi or the CCP;
      - Support for Hong Kong independence and positive portrayals of pro-democracy protesters.
      Videos in all of these categories can easily be found on TikTok. Many are popular and widely shared.

      1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

        Mike apparently isn't aware that vids on those subjects disappear all the time off the app.

      2. BillyG   2 years ago

        The following topics would be tightly controlled if the app were subject to Chinese government control:

        You're misunderstanding the whole problem. TikTok is digital fentanyl. A drug to distract people. Influence them. Stoke unrest. It's a propaganda weapon. Has nothing to do with what you think is embarrassing to China.

        Explain why we should allow TikTok when it has no equivalent in China. Douyin? Completely different.
        https://www.adchina.io/douyin-vs-tiktok/

        Ban TikTok.

        1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

          Are we going to start purging every app and website and video game and TV show that is like a drug that distracts people? That's not a short list.

          1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

            No, just the ones operated by hostile foreign powers.

          2. BillyG   2 years ago

            You're still missing the point. Please read entire post.

            China can push a button and make every user see propaganda videos. Social media influences people. Social media influences voting. Social media influences social unrest. TikTok allows China to influence US elections and create social unrest. Ban it.

            1. Beezard   2 years ago

              So you want to ban all social media? Because it’s influential?

              Seems to me you should have a definite specific criminal or national defense reason, otherwise there are some pretty clear first amendment issues.

        2. Wizard4169   2 years ago

          Explain why we should allow TikTok when it has no equivalent in China.

          Uh, because we're not China? China doesn't ban the app to protect their precious people from some vaguely-defined menace. The Chinese government bans it because they fear it could undermine their ever more desperate grip on power.

      3. XM   2 years ago

        If they intended to use tiktok as a spying tool, then they wouldn't ban any of those topics on the platform since doing that would discourage usage and invite even more suspicion.

        China could prevent every single tiktok user in China from ever seeing HK protests on that platform. Maybe that's happening, maybe not, but CCP has total control over infrastructure on their soil, and do not have to "own" the app to mine date, spy on users, etc.

        Of course, it's up to the government to make the case that tiktok is a national security threat. We can't prove that China ISN'T spying on us via tik tok unless the FBI share information. I'm not sure this article covers all the concerns that were brought up in the past.

        1. BillyG   2 years ago

          Spying is bad. It's still missing the point. What China censors is missing the point. China can push a button and make every user see propaganda videos. Social media influences people. Social media influences voting. Social media influences social unrest. TikTok allows China to influence US elections and create social unrest. Ban it.

          1. Wizard4169   2 years ago

            I suspect you vastly overestimate the influence of social media on voting and elections. Among other things, social media tends to be a bit of a echo chamber. It directs people toward content similar to what they've already viewed. It's far more likely to reinforce beliefs than to change them.

    2. JeremyR   2 years ago

      You forget that Reason used to be supporters of Russia Today, constantly appearing on it and bashing the US for the Russian audience.

      1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

        Really? Were Reason staff on there saying that the US is satanic?

        1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

          They would infer it.

          Actually, I preferred that Reason over the current establishment authoritarianism excuse generator iteration.

  15. Vernon Depner   2 years ago (edited)

    TikTok is a private, commercial business

    There is no such thing as a private Chinese business.

    1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

      yeah, whatever one thinks of the TikTok issue, it ain't a "private Chinese business".

  16. Truthteller1   2 years ago

    Hilarious hysteria over a completely unnecessary and vastly compromised cell phone app. So now chinese surrogates are writing for Reason. Surprise!

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      Apps now have to pass a necessary test?

      1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

        Are you brand new to the internet?

  17. Use the Schwartz   2 years ago

    USA snooping on your stupid videos = Okey Dokey
    China snooping on your stupid videos = Eevull

    1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

      How bout both are bad.

      1. ObviouslyNotSpam   2 years ago

        Ban both?

        1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

          Banning government spying on your citizens, by any government, even your own, doesn't seem anti-libertarian to me.

          1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

            But muh PRIVUT COMPNY!

        2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

          As well as Canada snooping on one's stupid videos. Especially Canada.

          1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

            Having Canada as a neighbor these days is like living next door to someone with a dangerous contagious disease.

            1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

              He's bitching about me.
              Mike's obsessed with the fact that I'm Canadian but don't sound like Democratic Party campaign literature like he expects good Canadians should. He feels it's somehow blasphemous.

              1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

                I’m sure he believes that racial minorities and gays owe their loyalty to the democrats by default too.

  18. Nominalis   2 years ago

    So much fuss over little breath mints.

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      Emily, Emily...

  19. JeremyR   2 years ago

    It's literally spyware accessible by the Chinese government.

    It's bad when the US government does it, it's even worse when a foreign power, a likely enemy in the near future, does it.

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      What is worth spying on on Tik Tok?

      1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

        Users' personal data.

      2. John C. Randolph   2 years ago

        Anything on a user's phone. Apple should have banned them from the App Store years ago.

        -jcr

  20. Flaco   2 years ago

    Here's a scary scenario: The Chinese government collects manages to collect most or all the data on the phones of all Tik Tok users (mostly young people), and then waits until some of those young people are in positions of power, and uses their youthful indiscretions as blackmail material.

    1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

      I'm thinking that in the future everyone's youthful indiscretions will be bare for all to see, and that will neutralize their blackmail value.

      1. Tony   2 years ago

        It's gotta be either that or only the Amish get to rule.

        1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

          We could do worse...

    2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      Dang! How bad is this video this hypothetical young person put on Tik Tok?

      1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

        You're naïve. I'm a little envious.

        1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

          Don't confuse willful ignorance for naïvety.

          White Mike actually knows that the issue isn't stupid videos, but the app placing backdoors on certain high-value user's phones. But he's hoping that people who read his comments, don't.

      2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

        Is it as bad as George Santos making Nazi jokes on Facebook?

  21. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

    "TikTok Is Not a National Security Threat"

    What about the NYT or WaPo?

  22. Tony   2 years ago

    Name one TikTok that you consider great art. TikTok is a digital drug. Whether the Chinese are using it to pacify Americans in an attempt to weaken us, it has no value. It ruins brains.

    The Chinese are using it to pacify Americans in an attempt to weaken us.

    1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

      Holy shit, even YOU can see that.

  23. ErinS   2 years ago

    The issue is not the CCP changing elections, it is their AI getting access to personal information through the app for the average American. I distrust most media, but it seems a lot of people who know better than me are concerned, so perhaps we should be as well.

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      They don’t need an app for that. There are several personal data aggregation companies who they can simply purchase such info from.

  24. Impeccable Compliance Environmental Yeoman (ICEY)   2 years ago

    OKee Dokey! This puts the Great in the Great Wall of China. I am making my TikTok account right now!!!!

  25. Liberty Lover   2 years ago

    Regardless, government employees should be working, not playing on Tic Tok. It should be banned from all government offices.

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      A sensible measure. I’m pretty sure it is already a rule for Federal employees and contractors who deal with sensitive information.

      I have a friend who is a defense contractor who has not been allowed to use Facebook, going back over a decade.

      1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

        I have a friend...

        I'm not buying that.

  26. Cloudbuster   2 years ago

    Also on Reason: "Why Does the Popular Social Media App TikTok Have Almost No Hong Kong Protest Footage? The company's Chinese ownership may have something to do with it."

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      Did you read the blog post above? That is specifically addressed.

  27. Brett Bellmore   2 years ago

    Wow. I could say that denial ain't just a river in Egypt, but this goes way beyond that. I'm starting to wonder if Reason is compromised by the CCP. Seriously, I am.

  28. Wizard4169   2 years ago

    The funniest part? A lot of the same people who think the government should have more control over social media companies complain about a lack of competition, but also want to ban a new competitor. This is the kind of thing that would make my brain hurt, if I hadn't been hardened by decades of exposure to similar idiocy.

  29. yito   2 years ago

    China could prevent every Tiktok user in China from ever seeing the Hong Kong protests on the platform. CCP has full control over the infrastructure in their territory and they don't need to 'own' the app in order to mine, spy on users, etc. The government has to prove that TikTok is a national security threat.
    https://www.webdesignstudio.com/

  30. MelissaReyes   2 years ago (edited)

    I get paid over 190$ per hour working from home with 2 kids at home. I never thought I’d be able to do it but my best friend earns over 10k a month doing this and she convinced me to try. The potential with this is endless. Heres what I’ve been doing..

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