Florida's Rejection of an AP African American Studies Course Is a Rejection of School Choice
Why is Gov. Ron DeSantis acting just like his opposition by attempting to dictate what students are permitted to learn?

Right in the middle of National School Choice Week, conservative politicians and regulators in Florida are fighting against the introduction of a black history class that would help high school students earn college credit. Florida conservatives are telling families who support school choice that they can't even choose their kids' classes.
The College Board is a nonprofit organization that administers college entrance exams and develops Advanced Placement (AP) courses for high school students that earn them college credits. They've developed a pilot program for an African American Studies class that they plan to launch in 60 schools across the U.S. over the next school year. They did intend for one Florida school to offer the class. They hope to start offering the class in all high schools by the 2024–25 school year and begin administering exams in spring 2025. High school students who pass those exams would earn college credit for taking the class.
Florida's Department of Education looked at the class, and flat-out rejected it, with officials saying it would indoctrinate students with "a political agenda" and lacked educational value. Gov. Ron DeSantis' Press Secretary Bryan Griffin* said, "As submitted, the course is a vehicle for a political agenda and leaves large, ambiguous gaps that can be filled with additional ideological material, which we will not allow."
Well, it is a history class, after all. Once you get past the names and dates, history studies political agendas and ideology. Certainly, that would have to be the case for a black history class in America.
Florida last year passed the Stop WOKE Act, which attempts to censor how schools and even private businesses teach about race, prohibiting the inclusion of the various ideas connected to Critical Race Theory. The law is being challenged by multiple parties in court as an unconstitutional abridgment of the First Amendment. It's not going well for Florida. An injunction has halted enforcement of the business component of the law. Another injunction has halted enforcement of the law against college professors, with one federal judge describing the law as "positively dystopian."
Yet, the fragmented law still currently applies to students in secondary education. So even though Florida can't stop colleges from teaching these concepts, they can stop high schools from doing so, even if that means depriving students of potential college credits.
That the law is in tatters and an unconstitutional abridgment of speech didn't stop Florida Commissioner of Education Manny Diaz Jr. from essentially bragging on Twitter that they're stopping the class for violating this law and listing all the things the state doesn't approve of in the class.
DeSantis says he supports school choice, and indeed signed into law last year legislation dramatically expanding the ability of parents to choose alternatives to public education for their children. But school choice is not just about the type of schools or the methods by which students are taught. If school choice means anything, it should mean that parents, not politicians and regulators, should ultimately call the shots on the type of education their kids should receive. If it's not okay for Democrats to do it, then it's not okay for Republicans, either.
No AP class is mandatory. Parents and students can decide whether they want to it. DeSantis, Diaz, and others in government have no business deciding what is and is not "indoctrination." If families and students don't want to take the class, it will fail. But I suspect the problem is not that students don't want to take the class. You don't have to ban ideas that aren't popular. The problem is that people want to learn what this class offers, progressive bent and all (the College Board insists the class does not teach Critical Race Theory and is still adjusting the course framework).
School choice is supposed to apply to all families, not just DeSantis supporters. When it's possible, it should even apply to students in public schools. Let the class succeed or fail based on voluntary enrollment and AP scores, not because politicians and bureaucrats decided on parents' and students' behalves. This isn't just about telling teachers what they're allowed to say. It's also about telling students what they're allowed to hear.
*CORRECTION: This post has been updated to correct Bryan Griffin's name.
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Remember circa 2016 when the MSM attacked Trump? Next up, DeSantis.
De Santis is the new 'worse than hitler' republican and a year from now reason is going to fall in line and publish a very sober thought piece on why you should hold your nose and re-elect biden.
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Florida Man is a bigot.
And a culture war casualty who will be replaced.
By his betters.
Until then . . . carry on, clingers. So far as your betters permit, though, and not a step beyond. You get to whine and wail about it as much as you like, but you will continue to comply with the preferences of your betters..
Alongside their rehabilitation of Trump so they can attack DeSantis fullbore as the worstest Hitler to Hitler since Hitler (nevermind all the proggy points of agreement with the Nazi platform, that's irrelevant).
Yeah.
I was amazed when I got bored enough to read the 25 points.
I had to check the URL to be sure I was still on Wikipedia and not the DNC platform page.
"I had to check the URL to be sure I was still on Wikipedia and not the DNC platform page."
"That doesn't even make sense because we call ourselves 'anti-racist' and 'anti-fascist'. How can we be racist and fascist when we clearly state that we're 'anti' those things. You're a crazy conspiracy theorist!"
The anti-racists are the new Klan on steroids. That makes Brandon the Grand Wizard. They've out David Duke'd, David Duke.
You know who else was the worst Hitler since Hitler?
..or Kumala
Is Biden taking a giant public shit on the First Amendment?
Do you people even know what you believe anymore, or is it just Jim Jones territory now?
Ah yes, the high-minded liberal rhetoric! Inspiring, isn't it?
To address you substantive point -- however crudely expressed -- you misunderstand (or intentionally misrepresent) the First Amendment. It prevents the government from telling a private school what they can and can't teach. It does not prevent it from deciding what should be taught in its schools.
Now do Twitter.
You and the author of this article are freaking idiots! It isn't "school choice" when the children signing up for the class aren't even aware of the indoctrination in the course! Anything that encourages the belief that minorites are still oppressed slaves and are more valuable because of such status is indoctriation! If history is honestly covered, everyone understands the truth!
Yes I do. And the question becomes:
Is DeSantis classically popular enough to be next in line after the previous/current next in line, enough of a bravado laser-tapdancing pole vault expert, or both, to beat Trump and whomever else? Currently stocking up on popcorn for the bravado laser-tapdancing pole vault competition.
DeSantis was a politician I really liked initially, but lately he has been going against the live and let live values that I thought he embraced. It’s surprising to see how much he has become retaliatory and using government to settle scores. DeSantis, please come back to limited government!
He pissed me off with his "Don't Require Unanimous Juries for Death Sentences" nonsense, but otherwise, no.
There's nothing live-or-let-live about pseudo-religious racist indoctrination in public schools. If it was a private school teaching this bigoted nuttery then Shackford would have a point, but it isn't.
Until public schools are replaced with non-profit orgs or private schools, stuff like DeSantis is doing is necessary.
a black history class
Let me guess, it's black "history" in the same way The 1619 Project was, right?
If you look at the published guideline from the College Board, it looks like a comprehensive and worthwhile class focusing on the history of blacks in America. Plenty to achieve there without CRT. DeSantis called them out just on the CRT bullshit at the back end of the course and apparently Shack is a-ok with that because...reasons.
Based on the link in the post, the material seems to include material by Angela Davis and the usual suspects. I'm guessing they're not included as part of an array of diverse perspectives. But I suppose it's possible they also include readings from Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, Janice Rogers Brown, etc.
But if they deem Davis worthy of inclusion but not Sowell, what kind of vision are they planning on teaching?
Yes, I'm sure it would impress many colleges to find that an applicant took this course. Are schools-of-choice in Florida banned from offering the class?
Well, it is still just a pilot - so this year, yes, they will be unable to offer the class.
Of course, since they weren't the one chosen FL pilot school, they wouldn't have been to offer it this year regardless...
This is incorrect. The course has an entire unit on CRT and even gender critical theory. Places like NRO have documented the actual course material. The AP admitted they had those pieces and agreed to remove it.
That's incorrect. I have the 82 page framework document. Unit 4 is Movement and Debates and covers a broad range of thinkers/movements related to black history. Yes, it does stray into CRT covering intersectionality and queer studies, but it's grossly inaccurate to frame the whole unit as CRT.
That being said, you know that no matter what is on paper, the liberal wanker teaching the course will make it all CRT, because that's how they were indoctrinated. But that's a separate issue from the published courseware.
Is the framework document available to the public, or is this is one of those you have to adopt it before you know what’s in it deals?
I got the link off of the State of FL press release telling the AP to shape up or ship out.
But that’s a separate issue from the published courseware.
Maybe not. Teaching black history at AP level is laudable. Using AP as a fig leaf to indoctrinate kids with woke bullshit...uh, no.
Teaching black history at AP level is laudable.
How is separating black history from AP American history laudable?
In the same way that separating a course on WWII or on the development of industry in the country would be. It's another history course focused on a narrower subject matter. US history is an impossibly broad category and a one semester survey course isn't going to go very deep into anything.
How is separating black history from AP American history laudable?
Obvious joke included for obviousness:
As long as they're separate but equal, I don’t see a problem.
Did you see the course guide? The second part for teacher guidance?
I confined myself at the time to a “fair use” discussion of the framework, declining to publish the full curriculum out of respect for the College Board’s insistence that it was a “trade secret.” In the wake of the controversy, however, the Florida Standard newspaper has obtained a copy of the pilot APAAS curriculum and made it public. . In another new development, I have now obtained a copy of a second document, the “APAAS Pilot Course Guide,” a manual designed for use by teachers. Taken together, the curriculum framework and the teacher’s guide expand our understanding of the course in a way that confirms the wisdom of DeSantis’s decision. … Overwhelmingly, APAAS’s approach is from the socialist Left, with very little in the way of even conventional liberal perspectives represented, not to mention conservative views. Most of the topics in the final quarter present controversial leftist authors as if their views were authoritative, with no critical or contrasting perspectives supplied. …. The fourth quarter of the course features a topic on “The Movement for Black Lives.” The Movement for Black Lives (M4BL) was started by the Marxist organizers who founded Black Lives Matter. Yet M4BL extends far beyond BLM, encompassing “over 170 Black-led organizations.” M4BL is organized around an extensive policy platform, the “Vision for Black Lives.” That platform is radical, to say the least. As you might expect, it includes planks such as defunding the police. M4BL’s platform goes further, however, by calling for the abolition of all money bail, and even all pretrial detention. To this end, the “Vision for Black Lives” endorses federal legislation by “Squad” member, Representative Ayanna Pressley.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/ap-teachers-guide-proves-desantis-right-in-african-american-studies-clash/
Yes.
And goalpost shift by you. Backtracking on the CRT unit?
Again, there's discussing the set of movements centered around being black and then there are the particulars of the materials you use and the way you teach it. As a framework, it's mostly OK. And if they remove the indoctrination bullshit from the teacher's guide it's the best we're gonna get.
Umm. You even admit CRT is taught in unit 4. So does the article. What backpeddling?
I obtained a copy of the APAAS curriculum and wrote about it in September, laying out its socialist agenda and its promotion of Critical Race Theory (CRT).
You may want to look up "entire"
Hi chemjeff. What are you trying to pull?
OK if marxist indoctrination and perspective is your idea of good education. If their focus is on how being black is about being a marxist are you sure they're not cribbing the rest of their history version from 1619 or Zinn?
CRT is evil shit. Show me where I said otherwise.
Just curious what you thought wasn't history in the 1619 Project. Was slavery not part of history? What about Jim Crow was that made up? My guess you did not even read the 1619 Project and you have no idea what it is about or what is in it.
You mean other than the fact that it’s a journalism project and not a history project *and* that numerous other historians noted and requested factual corrections *and* that the NYT “clarified” the story to align with many of those corrections?
I haven’t studied phrenology either. Should we have AP classes on that or leave it as a historical artifact? Should you be compelled to slog through it before opposing/rebutting it?
The fact is that the 1619 Project also has plenty of support from historians. Those that differ, differ primarily on the issue of its interpretation and not on facts. Anyone truly interested in American history will include it in the texts that they read.
Anyone truly interested in American history will include it in the texts that they read.
Similarly people truly interested in Naziism will include Mein Kampf in the texts they read.
Those that differ, differ primarily on the issue of its interpretation and not on facts.
This is a lie. The core lies of the 1619 Project are false assertions of fact including that the American Revolution was ought to preserve slavery.
I think the most correct thing to say is that the American Revolution attracted supporters with many different interests, and one such faction were those interested in preserving slavery.
Why do you want to protect children from facts about slavery anyway? Why really?
But no one does want to "protect children from facts about slavery."
Why do you need to ignore the Florida statute that requires the teaching of slavery and its related issues to avoid discussing the actual issue at hand, which isn't about slavery or historical happenings, but rather postmodern and critical theory concepts to frame current society and culture?
See, when you have to actually address the issue rather than the straw man you create, life gets a little more complex.
Why did you pretend to be a libertarian for so long only to come along and argue that politicians know better than individual teachers how to teach?
The Republican party lead by Lincoln in 1861 did not plan to abolish slavery only to oppose expansion of slavery to new territories. That opposition to expansion was enough to cause states to secede from the Union and to start a war. And yet there are those who say that rising British opposition to slavery never crossed the minds of leader of slave holding colonies. Never had them think that maybe it was time to break ties with England to preserve slavery.
And yet there are those who say that rising British opposition to slavery never crossed the minds of leader of slave holding colonies.
This is because in reality there was much more anti-slavery sentiment in the US than in Britain. Further in Britain the rapid political success of anti-slavery occurred specifically because the war changed slavery's economic impact. Before the war slaving merchants paid taxes to Britain. Afterward those would be collected in America, and the benefits of increasing merchant capability would accrue to Americans. It is this change in economic circumstance occurring after the war and not some unseen groundswell of moral outrage in Britain which motivated the British government to take military steps to end the slave trade. If the war had never happened it would have taken decades longer to end the slave trade because the British government would have fought the emerging anti-slavery consensus instead of recognizing it's usefulness to economically damage a major competitor and continuing military opponent.
Never had them think that maybe it was time to break ties with England to preserve slavery.
Again note how wishful thinking replaces evidence in left wing politics. We don't have to guess the revolutionaries' motivations, we have their speeches, letters, diaries, journals, treatises to tell us. Never once is protecting slavery mentioned even though if it were a risk it would have been a major motivating force. We're to believe powerful people thought their livelihood was completely at risk but were unwilling to say so? Ridiculous!
The left wants us to believe people were motivated by slavery but chose not to communicate it to hide their pro-slavery sentiments. But this is applying modern sensibility back in time. People of the time openly and publicly supported slavery. It was publicly discussed in every venue whenever it was an issue, so why would they solely exempt the war if slavery were a factor? After all, when they did fight a war to protect slavery a mere 80 years later they weren't shy about saying so. Further even ignoring this reality how could the effort to hide this motivation be universally successful even in private correspondence? Brothers communicating plans would not speak the truth to each other? Merchant operations would not discuss the truth among themselves? It's absurd! Moreover that such an obvious farce could be protected from any competent analysis shows how corrupt academia is.
No, the effort to claim protecting slavery as a motivation has no support whatsoever. They just really need it to be true so they assert it as fact, then (slimily) imply anyone who knows better is a racist as both Tony and our supposed "moderate" do here. This is who they are. Why would reality stop them? Their only goal is generating hate anyway, so why would it be relevant if someone really is a racist in the course of asserting they are racist.
I think the most correct thing to say is that the American Revolution attracted supporters with many different interests, and one such faction were those interested in preserving slavery.
You think this because you're an ideologue who repeats his party's narrative without question. In reality there is not a single piece of evidence (other than the wishful thinking of modern leftists) any revolutionary was even partially motivated by protecting slavery.
Not only are there are no such pamphlets or public speeches, there are no private letters, diaries, memoirs, or any other communication including this motivation. It was simply made up. Left wingers assert this not because it's reasonable but rather because doing so convinces children to hate the scapegoats you identify. And they believe this hatred can be turned into both political power and money.
The better question is why you you want children to believe lies? But we just discussed the answer. Demagoguery is the path to unchallenged political power which you know (if achieved) will be used to punish people you hate and reward your allies.
I don't think you are trying to equate African Americans with Nazi but if you are, please correct me.
If a person were a student of German history, they would at some point have to study the Nazi movement and that might include reading Mein Kampf. Particularly to understand the arguments drawing the German people to the movement.
If you are going to study American history you are going to have to confront slavery and Jim Crow. That should include a perspective of that history from the viewpoint of black Americans.
If a person were a student of German history, they would at some point have to study the Nazi movement and that might include reading Mein Kampf.
Right. And if you want to understand modern America you have to understand the lies and ridiculousness of the 1619 Project just as understanding Naziism requires understanding the diseased mind of Hitler.
That should include a perspective of that history from the viewpoint of black Americans.
You seem to waffle back and forth between studying something and asserting its truth. The key to understanding the 1619 Project is recognizing it is not a perspective, which implies it's an honest effort to understand reality. In fact 1619 is a hodgepodge of provably false assertions (the American Revolution was fought to preserve slavery) and laughably absurd opinions (black Americans are not covered in American history) made only because (if true) these circumstances would help justify reparations. People like yourself defend the Project because you only care about the goal (left wing power) and your only thought about lies and hatefulness is to consider them useful tools.
The fact is that the 1619 Project also has plenty of support from historians.
No it doesn’t and, even if it does, nobody disagrees that it’s not history, it’s journalism. Might as well say the Chevy Monte Carlo has lots of supports from historians while ignoring the fact that several historians pointed out several engineering flaws with the car, that were notable in other historic models and GM fixed them.
Anyone truly interested in American history will include it in the texts that they read.
They don’t* and no they won’t. Giving more credit than it’s due, they won’t read or teach it any more than they read or teach New Math or Ebonics.
It was blatantly flawed since the beginning and even if they don’t say it publicly, NHJ and the NYT keep walking back the falsehoods they initially put forth.
*Per your own self-evident assumption/assertion: "My guess you did not even read the 1619 Project". If you really believed people were reading it, this guess would most likely be false.
Do you honestly believe that the jerkoff pilgrims and Indians shit you were taught in 4th grade is the sum total of the historical record of this country?
I've said it before. Conservatism is merely the impulse to stop learning new things after childhood.
No, you just paint it that way because of personal animus. That’s why you have to frame everything so falsely to make your points. You don’t operate in reality, you operate in false political narratives. It’s actually massively pathetic at this point. You’re basically a sociopath.
You really are Tony Rupar.
My personal animus does not make people stupid. It's the other way around.
Note his misdirection: he can't defend what the 1619 Project asserts so instead he argues you believe something you don't to distract from the lies. This is the sort of hackery left wingers find compelling because they're incapable of forming logical thoughts.
Name one thing the 1619 Project asserts.
Name one thing the 1619 Project asserts.
As already stated: That the American Revolution was fought to preserve slavery.
Good God, here we go again - - - - - -
At this time (1665), there were only about 300 people of African origin living in the Virginia Colony, about 1% of an estimated population of 30,000. The first group of 20 or so Africans were brought to Jamestown in 1619 as indentured servants. After working out their contracts for passage money to Virginia and completing their indenture, each was granted 50 acres (20 ha) of land (headrights). This enabled them to raise their own tobacco or other crops.
In one of the earliest freedom suits, Casor argued that he was an indentured servant who had been forced by Anthony Johnson, a free black, to serve past his term; he was freed and went to work for Robert Parker as an indentured servant. Johnson sued Parker for Casor's services. In ordering Casor returned to his master, Johnson, for life, the court both declared Casor a slave and sustained the right of free blacks to own slaves.
READ THE LAST SENTENCE
Rewriting history. Wikipedia style
I suspect this is an attempt to conflate actual slavery, by force, with a contract of indenture, voluntarily entered into for a period of time.
This will help blur the blatant lie of slaves being brought to Jamestown in 1619, when the fact is that they were indentured servants who sold their indenture to pay the passage to the new world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Casor
Interesting note concerning Wikipedia;
This is the text I captured April 15th.
At this time (1665), there were only about 300 people of African origin living in the Virginia Colony, about 1% of an estimated population of 30,000. The first group of 20 or so Africans were brought to Jamestown in 1619 as indentured servants. After working out their contracts for passage money to Virginia and completing their indenture, each was granted 50 acres (20 ha) of land (headrights). This enabled them to raise their own tobacco or other crops.
This is how it now reads
At this time, there were only about 300 people of African origin living in the Virginia Colony, about 1% of an estimated population of 30,000. The first group of 20 or so Africans were brought to Point Comfort in 1619 as enslaved Africans. After working between 15 and 30 years, most were granted their freedom to purchase land and start their own homestead.
(this bit has been added)
Although most historians believe slavery, as an institution, developed much later, they differ on the exact status of their servitude before slavery was established, as well as differing over the date when this took place. The colonial charter entitled English subjects and their children the rights of the common law, but people of other nations were considered foreigners or aliens outside the common law. At the time, the colony had no provision for naturalizing foreigners.
Welcome to the revolution!
A bit more – – – –
The changes were made on October 29, 2020:
Major restatements were from ‘indentured servant’ to ‘enslaved African’, from ‘Jamestown’ to ‘Point Comfort’ (perhaps to avoid searches including Jamestown? Point Comfort is 40 miles downriver from Jamestown), from ‘granted land’ to ‘granted their freedom to purchase land’ (after serving an indenture, they were free by law, and no granting of the freedom to purchase was needed).
Here is the link to the edit page
https://en.wikipedia.org/ w/index.php?title=John_Casor &diff=next&oldid=979332193
The first and main premise, that the 1619 Africans that came over as slaves is historically inaccurate and not peer reviewed historically. The manifest has them accurately pegged as indentured servants, which in English history included a number of races that came to the US, including in large part, the Irish. The status was more likened to the workhouse poor taken abroad as a choice to work off their debt than the true slavery of later years. Hannah-Jones admits it has no merit and presents a very weak hypothesis which is easily dismissed with facts, manifestos, you know, history. It is a false narrative designed to promote the narrative of current ‘history’.
And when viewed against how the English were treating the Irish in Ireland in the same time period the 1619 Project becomes even more farcical.
Pretty much all of it. Especially the core assertion that the history of the US starts with the importation of the first African slaves.
^Lmao
M4e, as usual, showing up to give us his standard NPC correct-thinking take.
The 1619 is historical fan fiction. We dont have to refute it, plenty of actual historians have already shit all over it. Check out their work for further learning.
This is another example of the left saying "we just want to teach history" and reasonable people saying "no you dont, you want to lie and indoctrinate kids to hate America using propaganda"
Also, most of these left wing activists dont REALLY want to teach history. Because the actual history is a very bad look for Africa and how they were not only responsible for slavery, but also fought tooth and nail to keep white people from ending it.
Was slavery not part of history? What about Jim Crow was that made up?
The lies here are obvious If the 1619 Project is just about slavery and Jim Crow why did left wingers make such a big deal over it? Are we all supposed to pretend slavery and Jim Crow haven't been taught in American history for decades?
Of course this is not an accurate summary the 1619 Project. This is merely how dishonest liars try to slime other people. It's sad they are so hateful they will resort to literally anything to attack those they hate.
I was graduated from a Florida high school, back in the day, and was allowed to take AP humanities: Greek and Roman history. Apparently that's OK with DeSantis, though.
High school classes contain black students and, unknown to bigots of both races, multiracial students whose forebears "passed" into whiteness. Depriving these of their aspect of American history is Marxism in essence.
Parental choice always works. We were offered the option to view "Night and Fog/Nacht und Nebel" but parents were required to sign a consent form and non-consents were sent to study hall for the duration of the film. My high school had a large Jewish population and a few parents wanted to protect their children from viewing how their grandparents and others died. Almost all Gentile parents consented.
TL:DR--DeSantis has his head up his ass, AGAIN.
I take it you don't actually understand what Florida and DeSantis are objecting to.
Its baseline premise that the American Revolutionary War was fought over slavery is a good place to start. If you're going to cast aspersions and claim that bullshit put out by your in-group is gospel, expect to be called on it. You look as uninformed as always, what a surprise.
Totally avoids the question of what public schools should/shouldn't include in their coursework. Deal with the meat of the issue Shack or bugger off.
Apparently Shack is okay with the elective classes How Best to Shoot a Porno and also How Communism Saved the World.
How Best to Shoot a Porno
Given the rise of Only Fans, this one might have a place in today's vocational education. Some of those people really need some help.
He’ll have a small role in that production
He totally avoids it because that isn’t his point.
Florida's elected officials are saying that they don't want their tax dollars wasted on what they perceive to be a poorly designed, ambiguous experiment. They're not saying you can't spend your own money on it. Yeah, it sucks that Florida families don't have a direct say instead of filtered through their elected representative but that's a problem across all government. I'm not seeing what there is to be so outraged over here.
"Florida’s elected officials are saying that they don’t want their tax dollars wasted on what they perceive to be a poorly designed, ambiguous experiment."
After DeSantis' landslide victory in the last election, I would say the Florida voters are saying the same thing.
Also, Shack hates DeSantis for kicking the groomers out of elementary school classrooms.
Totally ruined his second career in a warm state that doesn't smell like stale piss, though maybe that's a draw for Shack.
Bingo. That’s why this isn’t a simple school choice issue.
The fact that it is called "African American Studies" and not "History" raises some red flags. "Studies" departments in universities are notoriously ideological, activist, and into critical theory type nonsense. If that's what this course is about, then I don't have a problem with states excluding it from public schools (if we absolutely must have public schools). If it really is just a history class that doesn't seek to indoctrinate students that America is hoplessly and essentially racist, then it may be a bad move to exclude it. I'd have to see the content to make a real judgement.
Superficially, the point of a class like this is to help the students skip AAS 101 in college if they get a 3 or higher score on the AP exam. Substantively, you're probably right, because anything to do with ethnicity or gender studies classes would barely exist if the entire student body wasn't required to take a least one for a "diversity" credit in order to graduate. These departments are all basically being propped up by students who would never take them otherwise.
I didn't think of it that way. I didn't have any requirements like that in college, so it didn't occur to me.
The AAS category used to be near completely full of football players that needed a major and never intended to pursue anything "academic". It was a deep as "well, Im black, so this should be easy".
You get more of what you subsidize, and all these marginal fields with marginal academics and marginal students know they are marginal, so they lash out and try to drag everyone else down to their level of incompetency.
The reverse Peter Principle.
Yea, zeb, keep allowing for the possibility of, or even assuming, good faith on the part of leftists.
One of these days, after your millionth straight time being wrong, it might work out...
Yeah, keeping an open mind is totally stupid. Being a dick to people on the internet is totally going to solve these problems.
I'm not going to jump to conclusions on things I am ignorant of. Sorry. And please stop thinking you know anything about me or what I think based on what I do to waste time at work.
I gave a scan of the syllabus. 80% of it looks innocuous and legitimately focused. It's historical, and even though it's likely to portray Europeans in a negative light and Africans in an uncritically positive light, it's not horrible.
It's just the other 20% at the end of the course where they have readings to attack colorblindness, reject capitalism, and advocate for antiracism that gets sketchy.
Other than that, how was the play Mrs Lincoln.
"You know, those Columbine shooters did not shoot anybody for almost their entire lives. Should they be condemned for their actions for less than 1% of their existences?" --- CRT advocate
There’s a lot to unpack here. Did the parents demand this course? Didn’t Reason just do an article where Parents overwhelmingly wanted schools to stop fucking around with ‘college prep yadda yadda’ and teach readin’, writin’ ‘n ‘rithmetic?
And honestly, until I can digest exactly what this course teaches, I’m withholding judgment on whether or not it should be taught in schools.
Again, there’s a fundamental difference between a teacher saying, “Here’s a book Adolf Hitler wrote called ‘Mein Kampf’, we’ll be discussing this in next week’s history class’ and modeling your class learning curriculum around the lessons of Mein Kampf.
Or perhaps more glibly: “Here’s a book Adolf Hitler wrote called ‘Mein Kampf’, we’ll be discussing this in next week’s history class’
and
“Write this down: As Hitler proclaimed, The Capitalist Jewry are a cancer on our nation.”
As one person said, “No, they’re not teaching your kids critical race theory, they’re doing critical race theory to your children”
Here's a basic description from bestcolleges:
What Is AP African American Studies?
Baltimore Polytechnic Institute, Pittsburgh's Taylor Allderdice High School, and White Station High School in Memphis, Tennessee, are among the 60 U.S. public high schools that will take part in the AP African American Studies pilot program.
The course will take students beyond the popular aspects of African American history to highlight the resistance movements and cultural traditions that influence modern history.
Topics in AP African American Studies include the reign of Queen Nzinga Mbande in northern Angola, the Harlem Renaissance, and the Black Panthers. It will also include lesser-known activists like Valerie L. Thomas, the African American scientist who invented the Illusion transmitter at NASA.
The College Board has yet to release course and exam descriptions to the public, but stated that more information on the curriculum was provided to teachers of the pilot program during AP training in July.
Basically, it's just a black nationalist course like the regular college courses are.
So I suppose it *would* help college-bound students.
As would a course on pickup artist techniques to use on coeds.
Doesn't mean it should be encouraged.
"resistance movements and cultural traditions that influence modern history"
Would that include the school-choice movement? Certainly a topic which has been shown to be of interest to people of many races.
A lot of that actually sounds interesting. If it was presented in a fairly neutral way as history.
At the end of the day, the entire course, but for the last part that brings in the CRT and modern social justice components, looks really interesting.
Hopefully, at the end of the day, they will be able to address what amounts to minor concerns and still offer what appears to be, on the surface, quality subject matter for education.
Would schools have the option of using the College Board's material except for the Angela Davis, etc. stuff?
Or is this some kind of package deal where if you want the NASA scientist, you have to take the communist too?
And then if you reject the package deal, you get accused of wanting to censor material about black NASA scientists.
You eventually have to pass the AP test. And that test is meant to reflect the material. In fact, the test questions/answers are likely a far better topic of debate than the materials themselves. That's where they could objectively violate FL law by having the "right" answer be CRT bullshit.
"You eventually have to pass the AP test."
Not to be picky, but to place this tempest in the teacup where it belongs; you don't have to pass the AP test, you don't even have to take it. It is just an option to save sitting in a particular classroom in college.
LOL
opics in AP African American Studies include the reign of Queen Nzinga Mbande in northern Angola
?!!
I'm a little baffled on a couple of levels to see Valerie Thomas' name and not Katherine Johnson's. Namely because her entire career has been within my lifetime and I couldn't tell you who the hell she is, what the hell an illusory transmitter is or how it differs from DSLRs or any one of a dozen other optical transmission devices... let alone pick her out of a line up.
And if I Google "famous black women scientists" she's not in any of the first 5 or so top 10/15 lists.
Someone from the 1600's who expanded the slave trade, according to Wikipedia. I guess it would be akin to studying the rule of the House of Stuart to see why the Puritans migrated to America, in a more traditional American history course. Seems a bit tangential but not entirely irrelevant.
The wiki article is completely out to lunch. It's not even based on good research. She was an interesting figure from an historical and political standpoint, considering she ruled in the 16th century, but has fuck all to do with US/African-American History ..
It's bog-standard "WE WUZ KANGZ UN QUAINZ" copery, even though nearly all African-Americans are descended from tribes who actually got their asses kicked by Arab Berber and other sub-Saharan Africans.
Would be useful to give them the names of the Africans who sold them into slavery.
“DeSantis says he supports school choice, and indeed signed into law last year legislation dramatically expanding the ability of parents to choose alternatives to public education for their children.”
Does anything stop alternative schools in Florida from adopting this particular course, Angela Davis and all?
An AP class about Elon Musk? ENB will shit herself and threaten to go to Mastodon.
Or Canada? Please go to Canada.
If ENB doesn't know shit, how would she possibly be in an Advanced Placement class?
What do you get when you cross ENB with Mastodon?
There's some things a mastodon won't do.
No, it's just straight playing to a racist base.
That racist base being progressive Woke Democrats.
I see Shackford decided to beyond the full retard with a full article.
*polishes monocle* Will have Jeeves make a few calls and see about sending him off to USAToday.
Isn't Shackford one of the writers pissed that Florida made it illegal for adults to sexualize 3rd graders?
Um, yes, I do believe so.
https://reason.com/2022/04/01/florida-sued-by-activists-students-parents-and-teachers-over-lgbt-school-censorship-bill/
https://reason.com/2022/02/10/floridas-lgbt-school-censorship-bill-is-a-lawsuit-factory-that-overrules-many-parents/
It seems I had you blocked. Did I confuse you with someone else?
Well, there's Artie Kirkland, and then there's Artie Kuckland. One's a racist, bigoted asshole (Kirkland), and the other is a decent guy (Kuckland).
I started out as a parody of Kirkland, but it got old and repetitive after 3 months. Seriously you would need the iq of a proggies to keep up that stchik
Makes Sandra pulling off her parody for years all the more impressive.
Just stop. You're embarrassing yourselves with how hard you are trying to get him.
Also, get it through your commie heads: government schools are entirely controlled, managed, directed, designed, and dictated to by... the government.
School choice? This is the hill Reason wants to die on?
I assume that by school we mean some organized education delivery. And I assume we could somehow differentiate teaching knowledge fundamentals from ideological doctrine. And perhaps differentiate critical thinking from tribal indoctrination.
If we are going to have government schools, then what guardrails do you support? Does you school choice fetish extend to flat earth studies and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?
And I assume we could somehow differentiate teaching knowledge fundamentals from ideological doctrine.
Leave that to the parents. Get the government out of this completely.
Ideally, yes. But as long as they take my tax money and claim the mandate for a "public" school, then I want them to avoid ideology.
Forget flat earth studies, we need more flat Mars studies.
1681, Piza, Italy... "Mama mia! I tak-a my telescope and look-a a-ta the Mars! She no round like-a de meatball!!! She flat! like-a de pizza-pie! This make-a me crazy! People no a-ready for dis. I just tell them Jupiter has moons... maybe tell de Pope." Galileo Galilei
https://flatmarssociety.weebly.com/
Well, if so, we would have to ban the sale of globes, and cancel anyone so evil as to mention "around the word cruises".
One again someone seems to miss the distinction between teaching that an idea exists and is held by some people and teaching a subject through the lense that such an idea assumes as true.
I have no problem teaching "about" CRT. That is a far cry from teaching using CRT.
Same as teaching about Nazism and teaching from a framework of assuming Nazism as true to start with thereby indoctrinating learners into Nazism.
Doesn't "school choice" generally mean having a choice besides your local public school? I don't see what this has to do with that. States make decisions on what curricula are appropriate for state schools. That may be a problem in some ways, but it's also democracy in action. If you don't want majority sentiments to limit what is taught in schools, then work to get rid of state run schools.
^ this exactly right.
Exactly right, from a libertarian perspective.
Which explains why Shackford never thought of it.
Clearly, you confused Shackford with the facts. Stop it!
It is a course being forced upon the residents of Florida’s public school system.
Church of England, Cake or Death!
CAKE!
Well we're all outta cake!
I have a better one..
Tribal Chief: Death or Unga-Bunga?
Missionary: What is Unga-Bunga?
Cheif: Missionary: I’ll take death.
Cjief: Death by Unga-Bunga.
It has nothing to do with parental rights or school choice. That's just been Scott's little trick of late- trying to shoe horn the latest progressive bullshit into a libertarian issue.
Doesn’t “school choice” generally mean having a choice besides your local public school?
Do you not support school choice? What are you... [glances over shoulders, lowers voice] pro-life?
shoulda just made it a jazz class.
It's not jazz unless everyone's smoking reefer.
I'm here to watch the freedom people suck authoritarian cocks.
You emotionally stunted mfers never disappoint.
Fuck you, troll.
May your chains rest lightly upon your shoulders. Preferably in a deep body of water.
How many socks you got here, Shrike?
How are things in Flagstaff?
But adding mandatory CRT, queer studies, 1619, and all that other crap was not?
Can't have it both ways, Shackleford. Post a link to where you complained about adding all those mandatory anti-truth studies as being a rejection of school choice, and I'll believe you are serious about this complaint, not just some freaked out wokist who favors gender mutilation for minors without their parents' consent because their woke teachers say so.
Ron DeSantis acting just like his opposition by attempting to dictate what students are permitted to learn?
DeSantis is not restricting what students are permitted to learn, he is choosing what government schools teach. This happens millions of times a day, but strangely Reason objects only when non-leftists make these decisions.
"not just some freaked out wokist who favors gender mutilation for minors without their parents’ consent because their woke teachers say so."
You realize you're shouting in the comments section of a corporate propaganda rag that doesn't care about you in the slightest?
Gotta get your dopamine hits in, I presume. I'm sure your friends and family regard you as nothing less than the second cumming of William Wallace. FREEEDOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!
You realize you didn't click REPLY, don't you?
You do realize that shouting in type means ALL CAPS, and the only one using ALL CAPS was you?
lol you trolled wrong.
Hi Jason!
So much anger for such a tiny mind.
In a properly-run system, students would already have learned about the black experience before being of college age.
For example, in a certain state (Florida), education in all grades is required concerning the black experience, including slavery, Jim Crow, and the contributions of black scientists, businesspeople, etc. Some of these requirements are spelled out in the STOP WOKE Act.
What would the College Board teach which isn’t already supposed to be taught in Florida?
Is that from the same book Texas used that described transcontinental slavery as being "invited" to come to America and calls them "immigrants" instead of slaves ?
Don't you think a proslavery textbook in Florida would have been reported? Or is the media covering for DeSantis and suppressing this piece of news?
Come to think it, let me “sealion” you and ask for a link to that Texas story.
Why bother with dishonest and disingenuous arguments like this?
My kids are in Florida schools.
They get black history throughout the entire process, starting in kindergarten. They do more minutia of black history than they do of any other sort of history.
(Did you know that one of the earliest traffic lights was invented by a black man? I do. And my son built a working model of it for a history assignment in 4th grade. Kids in Florida can name many inventors of minor innovations by black people throughout history. They cannot tell you who invented the microprocessor. Or the PCR DNA amplification technique. Or the antilock braking system. Or any number of other things more significant than a version of the traffic light that was never the most popular version and is no longer in use anywhere. )
I have made costumes for presentations by numerous eminent black figures from American history. There is at least one of these each year, for each of the kids. Many times two or three. This is far more than the number of costumes I have made for presentations by eminent white figures from American history.
In fact, I may have made more costumes for European mythological figures than US white figures.
So far they have managed to omit any reference to "whiteness" as the root of all evil in the world. At least, as far as I know. But there are definitely people in the school system who feel that way.
Come on, we’re on to you, we all know what Florida schools *really* teach under the DeSatan regime: happy slaves, singing cheerfully on the way to a fun day in the cotton fields. Plus black Confederates. Don’t forget Jesus riding a dinosaur. And extra credit for chewing tobacco while watching NASCAR. And since it’s Florida, advanced alligator wrestling.
And sex is evil because it might lead to dancing.
/sarc
Who knows, but why don't you take a good look at Ron DeSantis, realize he's engaged in a deranged culture war assault for his own political gain, and not take him at his word that his orgy of banning things is all sensible and reasonable?
But I suspect the problem is not that students don't want to take the class. You don't have to ban ideas that aren't popular. The problem is that people want to learn what this class offers, progressive bent and all (the College Board insists the class does not teach Critical Race Theory and is still adjusting the course framework).
Could somebody close the Overton window, it’s getting a little drafty in here. Shackford, go back to your progressive overlords and let them know that once again, you have failed.
There are consequences to training leftist terrorists, black nationalists or right wing white nationalists?, in U.S. schools. Let’s look at Peru. The indigenous leftist president mandated the dissolution of congress and the rewriting of the constitution.
What good is comes out of this besides very wealthy authors of Hitler youth type books. Do the consequences of ideological purity matter at all to libertarians?
>>They did intend for one Florida school to offer the class.
dunno if "one Florida school" crosses the "school choice" rubicon.
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But school choice is not just about the type of schools or the methods by which students are taught.
Who are these mythical people who choose public schools when given the choice and also think that the government shouldn't mess with curriculum?
I've got a great idea for an AP class that teaches Creationism.
Great.
Now go found a college board replacement that will create a test for what that course teaches.
Remember, these are just classes to prepare for a single test to get college credit without a loan.
Ah Scott, you never disappoint.
(edit: typo)
(edit: typo)
Forgot the first 'n' didn't you?
In reply to all those offended by a Governor deciding what to spend tax dollars on, here is some stuff that managed to get past Scott.
https://thefederalist.com/2023/01/25/how-your-student-can-get-ap-credit-without-ap-propaganda/
Because setting state-wide policy for public schools and publicly accredited schools is his job.
Shackford thinks he is being clever with some rhetorical jiu jitsu. When all he is really doing is further demonstrating why he cant get a gig anyplace else.
So, he never comes out and is clear about this - this isn't prohibited in all schools in FL.
Just the public ones.
He's ranting here about how public schools are making choices about what to include and exclude from the roster. Because taxpayers still gotta pay Mrs Johnson whether xi's class is full or empty.
And they've made the completely reasonable decision to turn away anything labeled "*-studies'.
This is the Florida government deciding whst they will teach in public schoold.
Only a devout statist like Shackford would think this in any way restricts what those students can learn.
A rhetorical Freudian slip, to be sure.
Finally, nothing stops a high school student from taking actual, real, college classes and getting college credit that way.
No it isn't.
And you lie.
Cut it out with the propaganda. This is a libertarian site, not a DNC propaganda site.
New here?
Appears to be in denial.
I am in bargaining.
When I hit acceptance, I will check out and not return
https://twitter.com/esaagar/status/1618318860448600065?t=-Pi4-j4Mj4W0qVoWMOMHsw&s=19
To be clear: None of this is benevolent. Its because the court is about to strike down Affirmative Action and they want to preserve a racial admissions regime by abolishing objective admissions criteria without suffering in rankings
Law schools did it first now Med school
[Link]
No, there's actually a reason it's not called "African-American History".
"Studies" departments in colleges (and as this is an AP course, this is a introductory-level college class) are "interdisciplinary fields". And what "interdisciplinary field" means on the collegiate level is "bullshit that no respectable department wants to endorse".
(I mean, there's a reason, for example, that the "Sokal Squared" effort was able to punk so many interdisciplinary journals but wasn't able to get any actual sociology journals to bite, and it isn't that sociology is right-wing.)
And the really sad thing is, the lie isn't actually necessary here in Reason. One can still make a perfectly fine libertarian argument for allowing elective AP "Studies" classes in public schools (as long as we're stuck with such schools) without lying about them being history classes.
The only question, accordingly, is whether Mr. Shackford is a dupe of those lying about this being a history course, or is himself in on the scam. Frankly, given how much of Mr. Shackford's writing on this site is pinned between those possibilities, you'd think Reason would fire him for the hit it's doing to their credibility.
Well said. Thank you
AP classes are specific preparatory classes for the AP (advanced placement) exams, which offer college credit at most schools.
Queer theory is not going to be on the AP exam for African American History.
"you’d think Reason would fire him for the hit it’s doing to their credibility."
New here?
Hey, I can dream. After all, it only took Reason years to get rid of Shikha Dalmia after she used this site to post an article extravagantly eulogizing a Marxist-Leninist propagandist as a hero of freedom.
Read the replies to this thread. These are your AP African American studies proponents.
https://twitter.com/herandrews/status/1617875151785431050?t=EBG6mjhAQC8SH3ie-zHRHw&s=19
Update: Nearly 40 fare jumpers in five minutes this morning.
I asked the Metro attendant if he cared about people stealing. He said, verbatim, “That’s not my job.”
[Thread]
But Wage Theft!!!!
"Fares are ridiculous for many folks. The fact that surge pricing also exists is a classist, racist charge against poor and BIPOC folks.
Who cares if people jump or hop the fare?"
And the second it shuts down, they would be screaming bloody murder about how unfair this is, as low-income people rely on this for transport.
Let them live in the squalor they are creating. Shut down cheap affordable subsidized transport. Let the grocery stores and pharmacies they loot for 'racial justice' shut down and they can cry about the 'food dessert' they find themselves in. The suburbs and adjacent areas can keep all the nice shit, and the cities should just be allowed to slide into the slums these people are asking for.
Im very tired of trying to explain unintended consequences to these people, let them suffer and reap what they sow.
Bullshit -- choose to go to a hate whitey private school
Up next: Florida's Rejection of a Pedophile Grooming Studies Course Is a Rejection of School Choice
Oh great
Reruns.
Up next: Florida’s Rejection of a Pedophile Grooming Studies Course Is a Rejection of School Choice
Hasn't he already written several of this one? Against the 'Stop Woke' Act?
As always, change the specified race and see if you still feel the same. How about an AP class "about" the KKK, with just a little bit of how to think like a white supremacist?
"Before we call to order this meeting of the Florida Anti-indoctrination League, I'd like everyone to join me in reciting the Pledge of Allegiance."
I pledge allegiance,
To the Constitution,
Of the United States of America.
And to the Republic,
That it endows,
One Nation, Indivisible,
For Liberty, For Justice, for all
A pledge not written by a socialist.
Rejecting a course is not rejection of choice, in this instance it is a rejection of indoctrination, which schools have no business doing.
Will they be teaching stuff like this:
"America withdrew from the transatlantic slave trade in 1808. With The Treaty of Ghent, ending the War of 1812, both the United States and Great Britain agreed to work towards ending the slave trade. The U.S. Navy’s role in the struggle against slavery began in 1820 when warships deployed off West Africa to catch American slave ships. Enforcement of the slave trade ban was sporadic until the Navy deployed a permanent African Squadron in 1842. This deployment was due to the Webster-Ashburton Treaty, between the United States and Great Britain signed that August to suppress the slave trade. Despite the vigilance of American, as well as British and French, warships in African waters, the overseas slave trade increased in the 1850s, owing to the high demand for slaves in Latin America. The U.S. Navy’s participation lasted until the start of the U.S. Civil War, April 1861."
Source:https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/museums/nmusn/explore/prior-exhibits/2020/anti-slave-trade-patrols.html
Or this:
"As the 19th Century wore on the Royal Navy expanded operations, even taking on Arab slave traders operating across the Indian Ocean. It’s thought that between 1808 and 1860, around 1,600 slave ships were captured, and more than 150,000 enslaved Africans freed. Thousands of Royal Navy crewmen perished – either from disease and accidents, or at the hands of violent slave traders.
The Royal Navy’s sustained action on the seas played a decisive part in finally ending the illegal slave trade. Furthermore, the behind-the-scenes work by the government to establish treaties with other nations allowed tough policing of the slave ships to end the illegal slave trade for good. While this virtuous crusade cannot possibly whitewash the ugly truth of Britain’s involvement in slavery before Wilberforce and the abolitionists tore the institution down, the actions of the West Africa Squadron deserve to be remembered as a glimmer of goodness in dark times.”
Source: https://www.history.co.uk/article/the-blockade-of-africa-how-royal-naval-ships-suppressed-the-slave-trade
Indeed: the only reason slavery became illegal world-wide is because of the West, foremost the US and the UK.
Some other facts:
The source of slaves was black African slavers enslaving other black African societies and becoming very wealthy; Europeans simply couldn't venture into the interior of Africa.
Furthermore, until Europe became strong enough to defend itself, millions of Europeans ended up in slavery in Africa and the Middle East.
Of the about 11 million slaves brought to the Americas, only 300000 were brought to North America.
The West... minus the American South, which fought a historically bloody war to try to preserve slavery.
If kids really want this course, they are free to take it on their own. But taxpayers in the state of Florida shouldn't be on the hook for paying for courses with little to no academic value.
As decided by a reich-wing Governor? How about letting schools decide?
How about not. Teachers and school administrators are unelected employees and have no authority to decide what kids should or shouldn't learn.
The people paying for the schools should decide. And those people are represented by local and state elected officials and representatives. We call that "democracy".
What a terrifying thought. The tedious thing is how you people think you're experts at everything the moment FOX News tells you what to think.
No, parents should not decide what their children learn. Children should learn things their parents don't know about because presumably the human species has learned things since their parents were in school.
And besides, we need to have some mechanism to free children from their parents' religious indoctrination. I want to live in a free country, not one where my very ability to interact intelligently with the world is dictated by how retarded my parents happen to be.
And yet your ability to interact intelligently with the world is already dictated by how retarded your parents were.
Your proposed solution to allow your neighbors to abduct you from your parents and raise them in place of your parents because they disapproved of your parents' ability to raise you is, while honorable*, ultimately a very bad idea.
*not actually honorable. Very totalitarian and scary.
I mean we invented public school a long time ago, based on the premise that leaving children to the whims of their parents was how most people stayed illiterate for tens of millennia.
I don't know why you people insist on concocting rationalizations for what is plainly an attempt by radical religious sects to shield their offspring from facts that don't come from their holy book. It's all out in the open.
Why help them? What good can come from that? Are our centuries not painted in enough sectarian blood for your taste?
I don’t know why you people insist on concocting rationalizations for what is plainly an attempt by radical religious sects to shield their offspring from facts that don’t come from their holy book. It’s all out in the open.
But enough about the neomarxists.
Everything you say tells on yourself. You cannot even imagine human beings who aren't totally devoted to a leak-proof ideological cult. It's how you work, so it must be how everyone else works.
Everything you say tells on yourself. You cannot even imagine human beings who aren’t totally devoted to a leak-proof ideological cult. It’s how you work, so it must be how everyone else works.
Woof, the projection in your post can be seen from Pluto.
"I mean we invented public school a long time ago, based on the premise that leaving children to the whims of their parents was how most people stayed illiterate for tens of millennia."
Cite?
Public education was invented in 1839.
300,000 BC ==> 1839: ~0% global literacy
1839 ==> today: ~90% global literacy
Nicely put, NYOB2. Those trolls on here who suggest that requiring teachers to stick to the approved curricula is tantamount "muzzling teachers," and that teachers should be able to teach anything they personally choose to teach, should take a quick gander at Libs of TikTok!
Enough said.
They should teach the difference between evidence, anecdote, and Chinese propaganda.
I saw Jan. 6 happen live on TV. That's like Cons of TikTok times ten thousand. It's so funny how you people cringe at blue hairs while you waddle around unshowered in tank tops with no grooming. I wish you'd all put some fucking grace in your style.
They should teach the difference between evidence, anecdote, and Chinese propaganda.
Your side sure seems to love appealing to the latter two.
As decided by a reich-wing Governor? How about letting schools decide?
LOL, yeah, I'm sure you wouldn't complain at all if a school district chose to remove it.
Okay - once you get past dates and names, history studies ideology and agendas - but the section of the course DeSantis doesn't like features only one type of ideology and agenda - with no examination of what might be wrong with the Black Lives Matter "methods", or why reparations might not make sense, or why black residents in black neighborhoods don't want to defund the police, or any counterpoints to the suggestion that socialism would help blacks, ....
One can say the questionable section of the AP course isn't radical (which most people, if they read the material, would say is often radical) - but it is bad in academic terms because it lacks balance.
Rejecting a trial class based on state standards laid out in Florida law w/ which you disagree is not 'a rejection of school choice.' It's a state doing something legally that you don't like, and you being bitchy and dishonest about it. I strongly suspect that if this weren't Florida, were it a course in anything practical that led to students getting a job, or in a culture that wasn't favored by your in-group, you wouldn't have your shorts in a knot. Outrage is a hell of a drug -the reasonmag staff should put the fucking pipe down and try journalism.
Republicans are passing laws that don't even hide their hostility to free thought or to vulnerable minorities. DeSantis outright states that the purpose of this law is to protect the feelings of white people who don't ever want to be reminded that racism exists. The Republican party, of which you can scarcely find a photograph containing a nonwhite person, has decided that it knows better than black people how to teach black history.
The problem is the evil, yes. But the problem is the stupidity. You can't argue with stupid. Stupid doesn't know it's stupid. That's its whole thing.
I don't recall the First Amendment saying "teachers exempted." I'm sitting here reading ostensible libertarians defending muzzling teachers, banning books, banning drag shows, banning sex ed, banning banning banning based on clear-as-day radical Christian conservatism and white supremacy, and scratching their chins coming up with rationalizations for them. You people have no fortitude. You're weak.
"You can’t argue with stupid. Stupid doesn’t know it’s stupid. That’s its whole thing."
So close to getting it.
"I don’t recall the First Amendment saying “teachers exempted.”"
Teachers aren't exempt from the First Amendment. Tell me where DeSantis is preventing them from saying whatever they want on their own time.
" banning books, banning drag shows, banning sex ed, banning banning banning..."
Yet nothing is being banned. Are drag shows illegal in FL? Can you not buy certain books in FL? Can you not teach sex ed to anyone willing to listen in FL?
Where is the banning you speak of?
Implied in your desperate pleading is that children are not meant to be free to read what they want and teachers are not meant to use their discretion in teaching because Daddy Governor knows better, and that's a good system.
It kind of sucks when you're own repressive tolerance is getting shoved down your throat, isn't it?
"Tolerance of movements from the _______ and intolerance of movements from the ___________" isn't so awesome when your side is on the receiving end.
So you're just outright saying that sound governance includes doing exactly what you claim to be against because "they did it first."
And nowhere in your desperate pleading is an actual argument against what I said.
I can answer the sub-headline. Because "school choice" is not the answer to our cultural rot. Teaching the appropriate things about our culture and history, in ALL schools, is the only answer that will work. And that doesn't make DeSantis exactly like his enemies, it makes him just the opposite -- he wants to teach the right things, they want to teach the wrong things. Night and day.
You don't want to have to deal with other people practicing a different culture from the one you were taught as a small child, and you're so concerned about this you'd use the government to enforce your culture on other people.
It never seems to occur to you people just to grow a dick and be adults.
DeSantis is "attempting to dictate what students are PERMITTED to learn"??? Don't you think "FORCED" to learn would be a more apt description?
Parents who believe their kids' school is failing to teach them something they should know are free to teach them whatever they choose at home. On the other hand, if parents think something harmful, dishonest or otherwise inappropriate is being forced upon their kids at school, they have no recourse other than to pull their kids out of that school.
Think about it
Yes, they are free to do that. So what's the problem?
Oh, you want the most hysterical religious nuts, the ones who are offended by the mere presence of gay people in books, to dictate the contents of curricula for everyone's child? Is that it?
Why would I want Freierians to dictate curricula?
The funny and ironic thing is that you people are not wrong to call liberal secular education, the foundation of modern freedom, a mere ideology. And what makes it funny and ironic is that this sentiment is the very essence of postmodern relativism.
Like all fascists you are exactly what you claim to hate.
"Like all fascists you are exactly what you claim to hate."
And like all woke-SJW's, almost everything you accuse people of stinks of projection. Number one on that list is claims of "fascism".
Or was is the religious right stopping people/cars in all black, with black masks, screaming at them to raise the fist (or else), stop recording (or else), and burning, vandalizing, assaulting?
Oh that was your 'anti-fascists' eh? Ya, exactly
If you're a fascist, I hope they come for you. I'm an American. We kill fascists.
If you're not a fascist, why are you worried about antifascists?
What's amusing about conservative assaults on free thought is how they can't imagine that children are anything but vessels for indoctrination. Sounds like projection.
For being a conservative is to be the sort of person who refuses to learn anything about the world they weren't taught as a young child. Didn't know gay people existed when you were five? Then they don't exist. Didn't know about modern cosmology when you were a toddler? Thus, God did it. It's all so sad and embarrassing.
What they can't deal with is the very concept of education. The whole point is to loose young people onto the world with the tools to think for themselves. It never occurs to conservatives that young people reject their ideas not because they've been indoctrinated against them, but because their ideas are incoherent. Hence the need to take over the indoctrination program. Nobody gets to their belief system through rational means.
What they can’t deal with is the very concept of education. The whole point is to loose young people onto the world with the tools to think for themselves.
Yeah, except your ideology doesn't actually do that.
And what pray tell is my ideology?
Neo-marxism. All roads (critical theory, critical race theory, and the shoe-horned in gender theory in the case of the above AP class) are very clear (they dont even hide it) iterations of marxism through the prism of "X" victim category.
Be honest, you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about, do you?
It is my goal in life not to *have* an ideology. I want my opinions to be so pristinely formed that they are only ever coincidentally touched by the blunt instruments that have been fashioned by political scientists.
Furthermore, there cannot be a correct ideology because global human society is one of the most dynamic systems in the universe. They haven't figured it out yet. We can only muddle through pragmatically.
So if you have a handful of big ideas that you think can govern us all, you're dangerously wrong.
"The whole point is to loose young people onto the world with the tools to think for themselves."
Ya, and instead of that, progressives like you fill their heads with your newage secular religious pseudoscience, and if they question it (appropriately so) you call them bigots and say they are making you feel unsafe for having questioned official guidance.
Please dont pretend you and your kind are on the side of open, critical thinking and debate. You are the new wave of religious zealots, and wont accept anything other than the children repeating your church's dogma
Do you say these things because you have some evidence for them, even personal and anecdotal? Or do you say them because you think all you need to know about the goings-on in universities you can learn from a pair of tits on FOX News?
Dude. Look at the actual course you are pretending to defend.
Holy crap, you are too dumb to do this work.
The libertarian take here would be: "The government shouldn't be running schools in the first place!"
Of course, this isn't what we got from the increasingly woke Reason Magazine.
There are already AP course on Spanish History and Culture, European, etc. Surely there could be nothing controversial or in dispute on those subjects!
DeSantis has written off blacks and is f..king them. He eliminated 2 black congressional seats by gerrymander, restricted voted in ways targeted at blacks, and his useless election police focused on busting ex-felons who are predominantly black for voting when they thought they were eligible. The problem? The GOP by passed a very popular constitutional amendment to restore their voting rights by requiring that all their funds were paid, yet purposefully declining to require the state to tell them what those things were. They are now back in jail for this spiteful mickey mouse bull shit.
True story. Look it up.
How is this AP credit offered? By the school? Taught by a school employee? Paid for by Florida/local taxes? As such, Florida & the local school system has the right (and duty) to vet the content of the course before offering it. School choice for parents does not include the power of the parents to force the system to offer whatever the parent wants. What if there was an AP class on World Religions? Would a Catholic school be forced to offer the class if it contained a bias toward atheism? Islam? Judaism? …
I think the article is not well thought out.
Hahaha.... you guys actually promoted this on Twitter?
And got nothing but grief for your trouble, I see.
I just realized what this article reminds me of! When I was in high school, the school paper advisor assigned me an article that shoved two things together that didn't make any sense. So I took the idea and made it onto a parody satire of a TV script. In it, there was a 4th wall break that calls out the idiocy of the premise. I have a character actually say "this dialog sounds like it a high school English teacher assigned an essay " on the two topics.
It won an award from the national Beta club.
So ENB saw that the DeSantis education department had shot down a course curriculum and said, "hey, it is national school choice week! Write an article contrasting those two things!" And Shackleford, not being creative enough to do something like lampooning the idea, writes this drivel, despite the fact that it has nothing to do with school choice, unless you squint your eyes really hard and try to believe that "queer theory" is an important part of the African American experience.
Also, LOL at how long it took the shills to get their talking points delivered and how lame they turned out to be.
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