South Carolina's Supreme Court Says the State Constitution Protects a Right to Abortion
The court ruled that the state's six-week abortion ban violates the right to privacy.

The South Carolina Supreme Court yesterday ruled that the right to privacy protected by the state's constitution includes a right to abortion. The court concluded that a 2021 law prohibiting abortion after fetal cardiac activity can be detected, which typically happens around the sixth week of pregnancy, violates that right.
"We hold that the decision to terminate a pregnancy rests upon the utmost personal and private considerations imaginable, and implicates a woman's right to privacy," Justice Kaye Hearn writes in the lead opinion. "While this right is not absolute, and must be balanced against the State's interest in protecting unborn life, this Act, which severely limits—and in many instances completely forecloses—abortion, is an unreasonable restriction upon a woman's right to privacy and is therefore unconstitutional."
The 3–2 decision is a striking reminder that the U.S. Supreme Court's June 2022 repudiation of a right to abortion under the U.S. Constitution was just the beginning of a legal struggle that will play out across the country. That struggle involves not just legislative decisions about whether and how to regulate abortion but also judicial decisions about how much leeway legislators have in making those choices. The South Carolina ruling shows that litigation aimed at vindicating a right to abortion under state constitutions can succeed even in conservative states where anti-abortion sentiment is strong.
South Carolina is one of 10 states with constitutions that, unlike the U.S. Constitution, explicitly protect a right to privacy. Article I, Section 10 of the South Carolina Constitution says "the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures and unreasonable invasions of privacy shall not be violated." The prohibition of "unreasonable searches and seizures," which tracks with the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, has been part of the South Carolina Constitution since the 19th century. The reference to "unreasonable invasions of privacy," which goes beyond the Fourth Amendment's protections, was approved by voters in 1971.
The West Committee, which recommended that language, was primarily concerned about electronic surveillance and said nothing about bodily autonomy, let alone abortion. But in the 1993 case Singleton v. State, the South Carolina Supreme Court held that forcing a prisoner to take medication aimed at making him competent for execution would be an unreasonable invasion of privacy. Singleton cited a 1992 case in which the Louisiana Supreme Court said that state's constitutional right to privacy included "the right to decide what is to be done medically with one's brain and body." The South Carolina Supreme Court adopted the logic of the Louisiana decision, noting that the two states' privacy provisions were "strikingly similar."
In defending South Carolina's Fetal Heartbeat and Protection From Abortion Act, the state argued that the privacy clause should be restricted to the context of searches and seizures. But Hearn says that reading would render the 1971 amendment superfluous. The state also argued that the privacy clause should be limited to the concerns expressed by the West Committee. But Hearn says the South Carolina Supreme Court rejected that argument in the 2001 case State v. Forrester.
"It is important to note that committee minutes will not be controlling of the intent behind, or interpretation of, our state constitution," the court said in Forrester. It conceded that "the drafters of our state constitution's right to privacy provision were principally concerned with the emergence of new electronic technologies that increased the government's ability to conduct searches." But it added that "the committee also recognized that the provision would have an impact beyond just the area of electronic surveillance." A member of the committee said, "I think this is an area that, really, should develop and should not be confined to the intent of those who sit around this table."
The 1971 amendment was approved two years before Roe v. Wade, the decision recognizing a federal right to abortion that the U.S. Supreme Court overturned last year. But in the 1965 case Griswold v. Connecticut, the Court had upheld a federal right to "marital privacy" that it said precluded state contraception bans. "There can be no doubt that the authors of [South Carolina's privacy clause] were aware of Griswold and its use of the right to privacy," Hearn writes. "Indeed, the Griswold decision was contained in an article that staff presented to the West Committee."
In any event, Hearn says, the meaning of South Carolina's privacy clause does not begin and end with what the West Committee thought it was doing. "A careful and complete consideration of the West Committee's work…yields evidence supporting every possible competing position," she writes. She thinks that "leads inescapably to the conclusion that the West Committee's work, while it has been useful to us in other cases, is irrelevant to this case."
Hearn notes that South Carolina was slow to recognize women's rights and that the West Committee was "initially composed of nine men and not a single woman." In 1966, when the West Committee "began discussing whether to add a state constitutional privacy amendment," she writes, "the General Assembly had neither permitted women to serve on juries in this state nor ratified the Nineteenth Amendment. Given this historical backdrop, we decline to limit our review of article I, section 10 to what the West Committee members may have thought at the time."
Hearn notes decisions in which the supreme courts of Alaska, Florida, Montana, and Tennessee concluded that access to abortion was protected by explicit guarantees of a right to privacy in those states' constitutions. (The Tennessee decision was later overturned by a voter-approved constitutional amendment.) "We are persuaded by the logic replete in the opinions we have surveyed that few decisions in life are more private than the decision whether to terminate a pregnancy," Hearn writes. "Our privacy right must be implicated by restrictions on that decision."
Applying strict scrutiny to the Fetal Heartbeat Act, Hearn concludes that the state's interest in protecting maternal and fetal health cannot justify a law that prohibits most abortions. "Women typically do not realize they are pregnant until around six weeks, precisely when the Act bans this medical procedure," she writes.
Although the Fetal Heartbeat Act pays lip service to "informed choice," Hearn says, "it is impossible to conclude that the average woman who determines she is pregnant at just over five weeks has sufficient time to weigh her options, schedule an appointment at one of the three clinics in the state, and comply with the mandatory waiting periods before having an abortion." Hence "in reality, there is no 'choice' at all."
In a concurring opinion, Chief Justice Donald Beatty agrees that South Carolina's abortion ban violates the state constitution's privacy clause. "Privacy has no meaning if we fail to limit how closely the state may regulate our personal, medical, intimate, and moral decisions," Beatty writes. He adds that, in his view, the ban also "denies state constitutional rights to equal protection, procedural due process, and substantive due process."
In a separate concurring opinion, Justice John Few says the constitutionality of the Fetal Heartbeat Act hinges on "one particular factual question" that the legislature failed to address: "Can a pregnant woman even know she is pregnant in time to engage in a meaningful decision-making process and—if her choice is to not continue the pregnancy—make the necessary arrangements to carry out an abortion?" If "a substantial percentage of pregnant women cannot know of their pregnancy in time to have meaningful discussions, engage in sufficient deliberation and prayer, and then make timely arrangements to carry out an abortion," Few says, "then I cannot envision a winning argument that meaningful choice exists or that the denial of that choice is not an unreasonable invasion of privacy."
Writing in dissent, Justice George James says the privacy clause "provides citizens with heightened Fourth Amendment protections, especially protection from unreasonable law enforcement use of electronic devices to search and seize information and communications." But "it goes no further," he says, and Singleton was mistaken in concluding otherwise.
In a separate dissent, Justice John Kittredge deems James' position "defensible" but does not join him in arguing that Singleton should be overturned. Kittredge concedes that "our case law has not consistently interpreted the privacy provision so narrowly as to preclude application beyond the search and seizure context." But he emphasizes that "we have never been asked to consider whether the privacy provision includes a right to abortion."
Kittredge says "the ambiguous phrase 'unreasonable invasions of privacy'" should be understood "in the manner in which its constitutional framers intended it to be read." He notes that "the matter of abortion was never discussed or even mentioned by the West Committee." The committee instead focused on "protection of personal information, circumstances that would allow law enforcement access to such information, probable cause, and search warrants." In short, Kittredge says, "none of the amendment's framers ever intended the privacy provision to affect the matter of abortion or the state's longstanding policy of regulating abortion."
What about the voters who approved the amendment? "The privacy-provision amendment was referenced by the legislature on the ballot as merely 'searches and seizures,'" Kittredge notes. "This characterization as 'searches and seizures' refutes any suggestion that the voters had any reason to believe that the amendment to the searches and seizures clause included a right to abortion."
Unlike the majority, Kittredge thinks that context is dispositive in determining whether the constitutional right to privacy includes a right to abortion. He calls the majority's dismissal of the evidence concerning the West Committee's intentions "a stunning departure from settled law."
If the issue is whether the people who wrote and approved the 1971 amendment would have imagined that it protected a right to abortion, Kittredge has the better of this argument. The majority instead focuses on the broad wording of the privacy clause, which can be read to protect all manner of private decisions from government interference. Although that understanding of privacy sounds good from a libertarian perspective, Kittredge warns that it invites judges to replace constitutional interpretation with their own policy preferences.
Kittredge thinks "no rational person" would argue that "the State does not have the authority" to criminalize "drug trafficking," which he puts in the same category as "assault, rape, theft, [and] child abuse." In those areas, he says, "there is not the slightest prospect that a court would contravene the will of the people, as codified by their elected representatives, because the law amounts to an invasion of privacy." He adds that "the same could be said of many other actions that may be the subject of differing viewpoints, including bigamy, prostitution, gambling, and assisted suicide."
While "a state may criminalize such conduct or legislatively permit it subject to
regulations and restrictions," Kittredge says, "no person has a constitutional right to engage in such conduct." Is abortion different in that respect? The South Carolina Supreme Court has given its answer, and courts in other states are considering the same question.
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Anyone want to consider the need for female (oops, those capable of bearing children) judges to recuse, as an interested party?
Does anyone think that male judges and male legislators should recuse themselves as this is a women's issue?
"as this is a women’s issue?"
So the children aborted have only been female, huh. That's an interesting statistic.
No. That's retarded.
Would you tell a woman that she's not allowed to have an opinion on any subject?
Football.
See below. It's really getting to the point where we need to just forcibly recuse the vagina having and the vagina adjacent for lack of reading comprehension and ability to reason outside their own vaginas.
The court ruled that the state’s six-week abortion ban violates the right to privacy.
…
Fetal Heartbeat and Protection From Abortion Act
Holy Judicial Activism and Journalistic Malpractice Batman!
Ctrl+f ‘six ‘ (with the space as in “six weeks”): 0 results
Ctrl+f ‘week’: 4 results.
…
(emphasis added)
…
So, first, nowhere in the law is the determination of “six weeks” made or even mentioned. Sullum and Judge Hearn just made it up because the actual law isn’t as punitive as the one in their shared brain trust and, presumably, they really likes punishing fetuses above and beyond the law.
Second, if women were forced by the law to get an ultrasound and/or hear the heartbeat, it would actually be an invasion of privacy or bodily autonomy or whatever, but the law doesn’t actually do that. Invasion of privacy is wholly moot. All it does is require medical professionals to inform and/or attain consent first, which if we’re going to be parsing out the expired drugs to avoid executing convicts in the name of presumptive innocence, it seems like we could do even less to avoid murdering babies but, again, Sullum appears to relish in killing people (fetuses of either sex… equally even!) outside the law.
It's actually getting to the point where abject dishonestly and deliberate journalistic malpractice isn't just routine, but constant, from Reason.
If they didn't lie about it they couldn't keep up the façade of libertarianism.
See below. If a murderer hired a lawyer to get their right to murder written into law, this is how they would do it.
Sorry, if a murderer hired a lawyer *and a judge*. I presumed this was the case of some poor woman who could really only afford an attorney suing the State of S. Carolina in order to have her own abortion. That's not the case, it's PP and an abortion clinic suing to get their right to murder written into law.
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This one goes to 11:
So, even if the voluntary ultrasounds *were* an invasion of privacy, the person who’s privacy is invaded would be criminally and civilly immune to litigation and shouldn’t have standing as being victim of the law to which they are exempted.
In exchange for this law being struck down, can we get a law where I get exempted from civil and criminal prosecution for executing judges as long as I don’t detect a heartbeat first? I promise not to sue for my right to privacy in order to get it overturned.
I think you missed this part:
Section 44-41-680. (A) Except as provided in subsection (B), no person shall perform, induce, or attempt to perform or induce an abortion on a pregnant woman with the specific intent of causing or abetting the termination of the life of the human fetus the pregnant woman is carrying and whose fetal heartbeat has been detected in accordance with Section 44-41-630.
Subsection (B) provides standard exemptions for rape, incest, and fetal abnormality, but the act effectively prohibits elective abortion after a heartbeat is detected, which occurs around 6 weeks.
I suspect the voluntary ultrasounds were part of a pre-Dobbs law or bill, that was amended into a ban.
I think you missed this part:
I think you don’t know how to read. It says right. fucking. there: whose fetal heartbeat has been detected in accordance with Section 44-41-630. the specific section I cited where it says ultrasounds *aren’t* mandatory, but by patient consent/request you. dumb. fuck.
So at best it's a gotcha law aimed at getting women to disallow their own abortion by agreeing to an ultrasound.
You know, assuming the physicians treat the ultrasounds as voluntary in the first place, rather than covering their own asses, given that criminal liability falls on them.
So at best it’s a gotcha law aimed at getting women to disallow their own abortion by agreeing to an ultrasound.
Except that nothing in the law prevents them from going to the next clinic down the street, refusing the ultrasound, and getting the abortion.
The law is rather explicitly intended to criminally charge medical professionals who knowingly kill people on the criteria of stopping a known-beating heart. If we were talking about EOL or emergency care such as unhooking someone from a respirator or making sure someone’s heart is stopped or arrhythmic before defibrillation, this law wouldn’t be controversial in the least. The only reason it is controversial is because lots of women are convinced they have a unfettered right to kill people and Planned Parenthood thinks they have an unfettered right to harvest the parts.
You know, assuming the physicians treat the ultrasounds as voluntary in the first place, rather than covering their own asses, given that criminal liability falls on them.
As I said below, progressively, willfully, stupid and evil. Just abjectly retarded and hell bent on killing someone without regard to anything having to do with reality.
OK, retard, we’ll go slow: A woman walks into the clinic, says she’s 6 weeks pregnant. Despite your, Sullum and Judge Hearns sub-80 IQ reading comprehension, the law doesn’t even stipulate a sonogram has to be performed or even recommended to get an abortion at this point. 100% solidly moot under the case as given.
Another woman walks into the abortion clinic, says she’s 8 weeks and 1 day pregnant. The clinician must say “It’s possible to detect the heartbeat, would you like a sonogram?” At which point, the woman, desiring an abortion says, “No.”, herself being absolved under the law, absolves the clinic of liability under the law. No sonogram, no criminal liability, no invasion of privacy.
A third woman walks into the clinic, says she's 8 weeks and 1 day pregnant. The clinician must say, "It's possible to detect the heartbeat, would you like a sonogram?" At which point, the woman, unsure, says, "Uh, Yeah." The sonogram is performed. If there's no heartbeat, it's a miscarriage no abortion can be performed. If there is a heartbeat, the clinic says, "We detected a heartbeat, we can't perform an abortion." The woman leaves the clinic, if she still desires an abortion, see my first sentence above.
Jesus Fucking Christ are you people goddamned retarded baby-murdering fanatics. At some point between conception and a natural death a clump of cells becomes a human. Once human, if you knowingly, intentionally, and permanently stop that human’s heart you’ve quite reasonably committed a fucking murder. There may be a dispute about whether it’s 6 weeks or 8 weeks or 12 weeks or 20 weeks or 20 yrs., but at some point it’s a goddamned murder and “I didn’t know humans had beating hearts.” or “I didn’t know the heart in that human was beating at the time.” is not a valid excuse. Even *then* if the law says “OK at 8 weeks, it’s human and you’re committing a murder if your knowingly stop the heart.” declaring the law as unconstitutional because it violates your right to abort at 6 weeks is just fucking detached from all conception of logic and reality and that’s even with a full-faith conception of a no-shit right to abort. You’re literally fucking saying, “If a woman can’t murder a three year old, then her right to abort and medical privacy at 6 weeks has been infringed.”
I’m not even a fucking lawyer, doctor, or psychiatrist and the means by which you fucking ghouls lie and defy logic in order to justify killing people is fucking obvious and fucking obviously insane.
What people? You F’En retards cannot even produce a person in your case.
Support the right to fetal ejection or just STFU.
"Except that nothing in the law prevents them from going to the next clinic down the street, refusing the ultrasound, and getting the abortion."
Section 630 does. An ultrasound is ALWAYS required. As I documented in detail below, because you can't seem to be bothered to read the section the commenter you're replying to actually cited.
An ultrasound is ALWAYS required.
If it’s ALWAYS required then 6 weeks or 8 weeks is irrelevant and you, the judge, and Sullum are a trio retarded mooks for making the argument about the number of weeks rather than the fact that the ultrasound at any point would be an invasion of privacy. Is 5 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 59.999 sec. not a violation of privacy but 6 weeks is? No! Why? Not out of any principle having anything actually to do with an actual right to anyone’s actual privacy but because you’re a trio of half wits (or less) who can’t read and formulate a coherent line of fucking reasoning between the three of you.
I'm really not certain whether you just think no one's going to call you on your BS or if you're really too stupid to know the difference between the numbers 30 and 40.
Because you didn't cite section 44-41-630. You cited 44-41-640.
Section 630 reads:
----
Section 44-41-630. An abortion provider who is to perform or induce an abortion, a certified technician, or another agent of the abortion provider who is competent in ultrasonography shall:
(1) perform an obstetric ultrasound on the pregnant woman, using whichever method the physician and pregnant woman agree is best under the circumstances;
(2) during the performance of the ultrasound, display the ultrasound images so that the pregnant woman may view the images; and
(3) record a written medical description of the ultrasound images of the unborn child's fetal heartbeat, if present and viewable.
---
Notice the SHALL clauses in all of that. The ultrasound is NOT optional. The provider SHALL do it before an abortion. No matter what stage of pregnancy.
IF the gestational age is at least 8 weeks, THEN section 640 kicks in and in addition to doing an ultrasound to determine whether there's a fetal heartbeat (in which case the abortion CANNOT happen, regardless of gestational age), if the fetus is older than 8 weeks, the provider ALSO SHALL be required to notify the woman that heartbeat may be audible and to offer an option to listen to it.
The language is all very clear. Not sure why you're going into a rant claiming it says something different.
Now that we've clarified it, what's the practical import? A fetus's heart starts beating generally around week 5. It's often first detectable visually on ultrasound around weeks 6-7. By weeks 8-9, it's often easier to hear audibly, though it may still be difficult to hear a steady rhythm on an ultrasound by that point, depending on various details.
So, section 630 ensures that IF a provider detects a fetal heartbeat (which could happen as early as week 5, but typically around week 6), the abortion is proscribed. End of story.
So what's section 640 about? I could guess two reasons to put that in there.
(1) Abortion is often a difficult decision for women to make, and they are often susceptible to wavering if there are reasons offered to make them question their decision. Making the woman aware of a heartbeat and giving them an audible sound of one is perhaps likely to sway them to reconsider their decision. However, many technicians may not reliably be able to pick up the heartbeat (as I said) in an AUDIBLE fashion until around week 8. Hence the timeline specified there. (Because maybe if the technician goes searching for a heartbeat too early and CAN'T find it, it actually would cause the woman to question the technician's judgment or ask for a second opinion or something, which could lead to her still seeking an abortion there or elsewhere.) Perhaps this clause is also to dissuade women from seeking a second opinion, trying to go elsewhere, or maybe even considering future abortions.
(2) Clause 640 might also be there as kind of an additional "check" to force providers to be honest. Otherwise, if a woman walks in and obviously is 10 weeks pregnant or something, the provider might say, "Umm... nope... can't find the heartbeat" (with a wink), and then an abortion is still allowed, technically, under the law. The 8 week threshold here basically makes it clear that if the gestational age is past 8 weeks, the provider has additional requirements, so they need to be extra careful. And if they DON'T do things like offer the woman a chance to hear the heartbeat, etc., then other people present may have cause to question whether the examination was thorough enough to make a proper determination.
Again, I'm speculating here, but contra your wild rants, section 630 clearly states that ultrasounds are ALWAYS required and abortions are ALWAYS disallowed whenever a heartbeat is detectable in any way -- which, again, generally happens by around week 6.
Again, I’m speculating here, but contra your wild rants, section 630 clearly states that ultrasounds are ALWAYS required and abortions are ALWAYS disallowed whenever a heartbeat is detectable in any way — which, again, generally happens by around week 6.
We agree that you’re speculating and doing a terribly retarded job of it given the text is in front of you, even by your own precepts:
Show me in section 630 (or 640) or any of the rest of it, how 6 weeks is, in any way, relevant.
It's not because the law doesn't stipulate that sonograms are mandatory. If it did, they should be arguing that it's an invasion of privacy *regardless of the number of weeks*, but they don't do that because they're fishing/inflating an individual woman's right to privacy into Planned Parenthood's right to harvest baby parts.
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We afford medical issues/information more privacy than most other things and yet deny that for abortion. Abortion is a medical procedure, should be treated as such and afforded privacy for the patient.
Because... EVERY SPERM IS SACRED!!!
Having duly pondered on ALL of the relevant issues, I have concluded that...
To REALLY understand abortion, you have to have the best ANALOGY! Abortion is like this:
You’re drunk off of your bleeding ass, driving down the road and shit, minding your own business and shit. Maybe you shouldn’t have dropped that acid, either, but the cops haven’t caught you, and, innocent till proven guilty, right? So you keep on driving… Your drunken ass is bleeding and shit, by the way, ‘cause you’ve got some wicked hemorrhoids, and shit!
Then some space aliens swoop in on your car, and abduct you, and shit. They start anally probing you. For some strange reason, the little green men have a conscience attack, they start worrying about fucking up your health, and shit, what with your giant bleeding hemorrhoids. So they cease and desist, yank their probes out of your ass, and probe your nose instead, and shit. They don’t even bother to clean the bloody shit off of the probes, and shit!
But then a mucus vampire circles around you and swoops in like a vulture!
See, a mucus vampire, well, they’ve got some sort of magical nose for this kind of thing, and somehow he catches on to what’s going down, and he wants to suck your mucus, and shit. So he shows up, to get in on the action.
But when the mucus vampire sees all your blood and shit mixed up with your mucus and shit, he gets all disgusted and shit. The blood, he can handle… Some of his best friends are blood vampires. He’s a tolerant and broad-minded vampire, and shit, you know. But REAL shit, in his mucus??! Now THAT is TOO MUCH shit, and shit!
So he says, “Dudes, getting blood and shit into your mucus and shit, that’s like getting chocolate into your peanut butter and jelly and shit! That’s like getting your stupid and your evil all mixed up into your philosophy! This is some seriously fucked up bloody-snot shit! I’m outta here!” And the mucus vampire is SOOO sickened, he barfs all over you! Then he wraps his cloak around him like Batman folding up his bat-wings around himself, turns into a bat-shit crazy bat, and shit, and flies away, all disgusted.
The little green men, being kinda autistic, take everything literally. They are also HORNY little green men, already excited by anally and nasally probing you, and, upon hearing the mucus vampire talking about “…seriously fucked up bloody-snot shit…”, get all carried away, and shoot their little-green-men jism all over your bloody-snot shit!
Now if we sit back and think about this, your shit bacteria get all fucked up, ‘cause they were expecting a decent burial in your toilet, and they don’t get one. Your nasal bacteria and viruses were expecting to LIVE, or, at least, a traditional, honorable drying-out session in your booger rag, and they don’t get that, either. Your little green men sperm cells get REALLY screwed over, ‘cause they were expecting at least SOME long odds (but a real fighting chance) at some little green woman’s egg cell. Your red blood cells don’t matter, ‘cause they have no cell nucleus, let alone a nervous system, or any kind of independent life. Your white blood cells? Well, yes, they have a nucleus, and their own genes. But they’re WHITE, dammit! You CRAZY cracker muthafuckers!!! WHITE means you’re a RACIST, and WHO CARES about the rights of racist honkeys?!?!
Ergo, we must conclude, this whole thing is an abortion all around! Since abortions are, by definition, abortions, they need to be outlawed!
That's not an analogy, it's an ascientific rant disguised as an aneurism.
rant disguised as an aneurism.
That sums up pretty much all of SQRLSY's posts.
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Abortion is as much a medical procedure as running someone through a woodchipper is.
Medical procedures are about saving human lives, not taking them.
https://reason.com/2022/07/19/idaho-state-gop-says-abortion-should-be-illegal-even-when-used-to-save-a-womans-life/
Idaho State GOP Says Abortion Should Be Illegal, Even When Used To Save a Woman's Life
Shove it up yer Perfect LYING ASS, Self-Righteous BITCH!!!
No they don't you stupid fuck.
Emma Camp was flat out lying, and if you go look up what eclampsia and ectopic pregnancy are on wikipedia you'll find abortion is never used as the treatment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclampsia#Treatment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy#Treatment
Stop being so retarded.
Mammary-Fuhrer and “Team R” fanatics: “Just TRUST IN US! WE can be trusted to NOT call it an abortion… When you are our FRIENDS and SUPPORTERS!” (If you’re NOT a friend of ours, all bets are off, butt we’re not going to say that. It is "merely" implied.)
https://www.ekathimerini.com/opinion/1156932/for-my-friends-everything-for-my-enemies-the-law/
‘For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law’
The song of dictators and authoritarians EVERYWHERE!!!
According to the cited Reason article:
According to the Idaho Reports Blog, an amendment to allow exceptions for "lethal danger" was proposed, with supporting delegates citing ectopic pregnancy concerns. That amendment was defeated 412–164. Herndon "vocally opposed adding the exemption" and "argued that both lives, meaning fetus and mother, are of equal value in that situation."
If the Idaho GOP can turn this platform position into law, Idaho women could be legally compelled to die from eclampsia, infections due to incomplete miscarriage (the treatment of which would constitute abortion to the Idaho GOP), and ectopic pregnancy, which is the leading cause of first-trimester maternal death, according to the University of California, Davis Health System.
No abortion opponents anywhere are opposed to medical treatments for eclampsia, infections due to incomplete miscarriage and ectopic pregnancy.
You know why?
Because not a single one of the treatments feature abortion, you gullible fuck. I don't know where you copied that from, but you're being rused. Next you'll be telling me prostate removal is banned by abortion regulation.
This is how abortion fanciers like Shillsy lie to themselves. Through an astonishing lack of basic biological knowledge.
And no, the treatment of a miscarriage infection wouldn't constitute abortion to the Idaho GOP or anyone on the planet. Stop being so credulous.
" I don’t know where you copied that from..." Dumb-fuck can not READ!!! https://reason.com/2022/07/19/idaho-state-gop-says-abortion-should-be-illegal-even-when-used-to-save-a-womans-life/
Mammary-Fuhrer and "Team R" fanatics: "Just TRUST IN US! WE can be trusted to NOT call it an abortion... When you are our FRIENDS and SUPPORTERS!" (If you're NOT a friend of ours, all bets are off, butt we're not going to say that.)
https://www.ekathimerini.com/opinion/1156932/for-my-friends-everything-for-my-enemies-the-law/
‘For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law’
The song of dictators and authoritarians EVERYWHERE!!!
Removal of an ectopic pregnancy is generally not considered an abortion because the fetus is completely doomed. There is no possible hope it can ever come to term.
No one at all considered removing a miscarriage an abortion. Because it's already dead.
Eclampsia is a late-pregnancy (or post-pregnancy) condition, and the treatment to prevent it is birth, not abortion.
By lumping these into actual abortions, you divert the argument away from what is actually being discussed.
Abortion involves 2 people, not one. 3 if you include the father.
Why include the father? They are almost all males.
Sorry. Penis or turkey baster carrying person.
When do you start counting the second life, at conception or at another point?
When it is a second person with individualized DNA.
So identical twins are just one person?
Technically they would be, but the split is early and despite for all intents and purposes having the exact same DNA, it's not quite a clean 100%. Then there's the matter of gene expression.
Are you actually this stupid or are you just being stupid out of principle?
Because, I could see an honest, good faith question like “Isn’t an individual heartbeat and brainwaves more critical to what constitutes an individual human than DNA? A tumor could have individual DNA from its host, does that make it a human?” and, while I could be wrong, I don’t think Jesse’s argument is that “Any unique collection of 46(ish) human chromosomes absent even cellular replication machinery constitutes a human.” and I’m at least willing to give him that much credit even if it’s not.
But, then, you didn’t ask that type of question.
He defined a "second person" as one with "individualized DNA". You are free to make assumptions about what he meant. I just reacted to what he actually said.
He actually said “second person” and (per Mother’s Lament) individualized DNA.
Again, we could get technical and parse whether ‘second person’ means ‘second human with rights’ or ‘second clump of cells’ but your assertion is that it doesn’t matter for the first person of either interpretation and you insist on making yourself stupid and on dragging everyone down with you in order to advocate that permanently stopping other people’s hearts isn’t killing them.
Playing Devil’s Advocate is a thing, so is advocating on behalf of the critical essence of evil and, Rule of Goats.
So, is that conception? If that is the case, why accept a 6 week ban or even allow hormonal birth control? The fact is you should be objecting that the state even allows abortions up to 6 weeks.
Because if there's a chance to have you guys kill fewer people we'll take it, and hope that eventually the culture wakes the fuck up and the zeitgeist changes for the better.
Warning: Rant.
Yeah. I used to be largely and still pretty much am an 8-12 weeks guy specifically based on heartbeat and brainwave activity which we use to determine down to the second when an unequivocal human becomes a clump of cells at the end of life.
I oppose this bullshit on the anti-scientific, immoral premise. The “virtuous lie” is not fucking virtuous and sanctifying not just entitles you to tell other “virtuous lies” but effectively obligates you to. My capitulation effectively facilitates making other people stupider, which, I can’t stop them from being stupid or choosing to be so and neither of us is under any obligation to make them smarter, and I won’t stop you from taking advantage of their stupidity but fuck me if you expect me to be complicit, even nominally, in making them stupider. If only because it requires me to be stupid to maintain your evil fucking illusion and, especially in the case of abortion, up to and including definitively ending lives.
No, the heartbeat detected by ultrasound is not just electrical impulses, that’s not how a sonogram works you dumb, evil fucks. The law says eight weeks written in plain English, if you think it says six it’s because you’re dumb, evil fucks who think sonograms functionally detect electrical currents. If you would stop actively trying to be dumb, evil fucks we could have a civilized conversation about heartbeats, brainwaves, and DNA (and genitals and gender and athletic or intellectual ability/aptitude... ...) but because you want to be progressively malicious, dumb, evil fucks I’m going to treat you like progressively malicious, dumb, evil fucks because I’ve had enough of your progressively malicious, evil dumbfuckery at all fucking corners besides this one.
I like the cut of your jib. Do you perhaps have a newsletter I could subscribe to?
Is my sperm a person too?
Seeing as your sperm only has the dna code of half a human, and is not in the process of cellular mitosis, no it’s not.
But then you know that because you’re not like these brain dead leftist morons that drive by here.
It’s okay to admit you think the cost/benefit of allowing abortion to whatever stage you think is acceptable (seems like you’re a magical birth canal kinda guy) is worth it (I’m probably closer to the 12-16 week mark), but you don’t have to pretend to be scientifically obtuse to do it.
So its 1/2 a person? 🙂
Ya; It was just pointing out the idiocy in these a 'person' at conception claims.
I don't think it's a proper usage of Gov-GUNS to dictate where one's *acceptable* level sits at on anothers personal life. Especially Pre-Viable were there is no inherent right to life and instead it's just an *entitlement* to keep reproducing.
Some liberal bioethicists defend infanticide on grounds that a neonate isn't a person: it lacks self-awareness, can't plan or hope or make rational decisions, etc. Would you have government thugs force a woman to be a mother rather than respect her sacred, deeply personal decision to end her parasitic newborn's life?
“Would you have government thugs force a woman to be a mother”
No; That’s an improper usage of Gov-Guns.
Ever heard of ward of the State?
The State can protect ‘inherent’ rights from violations by outsiders (as justice should be). They don’t get to *entitle* some at the cost of others. There isn’t any ‘inherent’ right to life at Pre-Viable. And if proof is needed then preform Fetal Ejection. She has every right under the sun to control her own body however she feels fit.
If you cannot support ?baby? freedom.. (i.e. Fetal Ejection)
UR supporting Gov-Gun FORCED reproduction.
Read the law, the right to privacy is a whole cloth, bullshit red herring and the tortured logic is worse than Roe.
The ultrasounds are not mandatory, meaning no one’s privacy is being violated. The law specifically exempts the patients from any criminal and civil prosecution for violating the law.
The law is rather deliberately crafted and worded to prevent medical personnel from knowingly executing fetuses after 8 weeks and/or a fetal heartbeat is detected.
Or is it to FORCE the woman to keep reproducing?
Drug Trafficking and Drug Consumption are not the same thing. How the hell can they possibly justify that consumption is not bodily autonomy without explicitly stating that at a certain point the fetus is not a being?
I’m not arguing the point of fetal ascendence to personhood. I’m just saying you can’t have it both ways.
They struck down a law that explicitly says eight weeks on the presumption it applies to six weeks and on the basis of invasion of privacy when it clearly stipulates the patient is not just under no obligation to refuse, but is legally exempt from even criminal and civil prosecution even if they don't.
under no obligation to refuse
Sorry, under no obligation to acquiesce.
It's like a law saying the a nurse shall ask "Do you want us to test your blood for illegal substances?" and be held criminally liable, and from which you are criminally shielded regardless of how you answer, if she tests the blood anyway is a violation of right to privacy.
Such. A. Fucking. Stupid. Ass. Raping. Take. From. Reason.
Mystical bigots have no clue as to the definition of life. Isaac Asimov defined life as the ability to bring about a temporary local decrease in entropy by means of electrochemical reactions. This has been around for billions of years, and is a quality shared by every sperm cell.
Remember: leftists aren't people, they're literally cancer.
A fetus' life matters a hell of a lot more than any leftist.
Even Gay fetuses?
Especially gay fetuses.
I’m not a transphobe, I just enthusiastically support the abortion of all the genders, and their pronouns, that don’t conform to a fetuses’ sex at any point between the first and 500th trimester.
So only leftists have to be State-Owned incubators?
I think I got your logic right.
From the official court documents:
This was not a decision in favor of women's right to privacy, this was a decision in favor of Planned Parenthood's right to harvest baby parts.
What does this mean for any vaccine mandates in South Carolina?
Yeah, it just means whatever they want it to.
I must be irrational because I don’t believe government does have the authority to criminalize drug trafficking or use or anything. That guy is a tyrant.
Remember when the ‘right to life’ started being *entitlements* to other people’s bodies? I’m dying; I have a right to your kidneys!
No; Pro-Lifers… That’s not how justice goes. Rights aren’t *entitlements* to other people’s lost freedom.
And P.S. FU for making Constitutional (LIMITED GOVERNMENT) Republicans look stupid for being part of the Republican party.
In complete contrast to the *Real Republican Written* premise of Roe v Wade which was already a tad bit too Pro-Fetus Power-Mad.. You've sold out your principles for the same Power-mad disease of the left. Any excuse. Any excuse at all to put politicians with GUNS in charge.
Sullum must have also noticed that SC's Libertarian Party also recognized women--pregnant or otherwise--as adult bearers of individual rights some years back. Le Roe est mort! Vive le Roe!
Another rousing meeting of Libertarians For Statist Womb Management and Libertarians For Big-Government Micromanagement Of Ladyparts Clinics.
Conducted at a site populated mostly by disaffected clingers and sponsored by Incels R Us, Adult-Onset Superstition, and Culture War Casualties Of America.
Carry on, inconsequential right-wing assholes. Your betters will let you know how far and how long you will be permitted to carry anything, as always.
I’m not offended by the mismanagement of Ladyparts Clinics, I’m offended that a disaffected, illiterate culture warrior judge, who will be replaced long before I’m dead, can’t read the plain text of a law and must invoke her superstitious beliefs about life outside the law in order to rule against it.
So, essentially, EVERY interaction between a doctor and patient is protected, including overprescribing pain meds and allowing all Body Integrity Disorder surgeries? Does that include conversion therapy, too? Does that allow doctors and therapists to talk children (and their parents) out of transitioning kids? Or are only SOME things protected?
The right of the people to be secure in their persons.
I have to agree. This interpretation of privacy laws would clearly mean that essentially every FDA regulation is unconstitutional. Electroshock treatments, lobotomies, conversion therapy, elective removal of limbs. Anything you could possibly ask for, the government has no right to legislate.
That's what I never understood about this abortion argument. It's clear no one actually believes the privacy angle because it falls apart under the smallest scrutiny. It's always been transparently a made-up reason for a pre-ordained conclusion.
Everything you just used as an example is an 'inherent' right. As-in anyone can do said action without anyone else's rights being violated. That is what the USA was founded on... DEAL WITH IT or move-out. The never-ending NANNY State is EXACTLY what is destroying the USA and every fallen nation before it's founding.
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“We hold that the decision to terminate a pregnancy rests upon the utmost personal and private considerations imaginable, and implicates a woman’s right to privacy,””
Except the woman once pregnant with another living human being is no longer acting in private AKA alone, duh.
As such she is required not to violate the inalienable right to life of the person within her, whom she explicitly invited by choosing to perform the only act that could do so.
Maybe the SCJ doesn’t read dictionaries or is signalling to change the meaning of the word “private” to serve their corrupt interests.
“restricted to the individual or arising independently of others” Webster (for now)
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Once again... "not to violate the inalienable right to life"...
A Pre-Viable fetus has no 'inalienable' right to life...
If it takes an act of Congress to make or change a law, doesn’t it logically follow that the same must apply to the definitions of the words that give those laws meaning?
Considering also that the meaning of words supersedes state lines.
See how the Cambridge Dictionary has changed the meanings of man and woman to suit their corrupt ideological agenda. Science and logic weren’t used.
https://nypost.com/2022/12/13/cambridge-dictionary-changes-definition-of-man-and-woman/
+100000... It is totally GREAT... To actually see justices HONOR the people's law over their government and CUT "how much leeway legislators have in making *PERSONAL* choices"...
Viability is the physical ability to CONTINUE living. Science and logic demonstrate that from conception a new human being is living within the pregnant woman.
Viability has NOTHING to do with the constitutional inalienable right to life.
Refute that if you can, agree or fuck off.
What about the 'science'?????? Leftard reasoning 101...
A 'right to life' doesn't *entitle* anyone to live in someone else's house.
The "life" inside of the mother is a parasite. By your definition a tapeworm had a right to life as well.
You can embarrass yourself with easily refuted faulty analogies.
I’ll happily keep correctly applying logic and science to discern reality.
Having the inalienable right to life has resulted in laws against killing innocent people in your house.
Funny abortion bans aren't making 'killing' anything illegal.
BUT are instead forcing Woman to reproduce...
If you cannot support ?baby? freedom (i.e. Fetal Ejection)
UR supporting Gov-Gun FORCED reproduction...
Your proposed legislation doesn't match your proposal for doing it.
Manipulation, deception and lies FOR MORE, MORE, MORE Gov-Guns.
Everyone is bearing witness to your choice to ignore logic and science.
If you were a rational person I’d ask upon what then do you base your conclusions.
But it doesn’t even matter to you.
Nobody needs to hear what an irrational person says. You’re insignificant here.
Great! Why don't you abort me!! 🙂
Oh whoops; Too late -- I've already been aborted by nature.
You are the one being unreasonable.
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You fuckwits are too easy to refute. Telling you to smarten up would be a waste of time.
This is for the benefit of others.
Definition of parasite “a person who habitually relies on or exploits others and gives nothing in return:”
Pregnancy AKA the baby provides many benefits to their mother.
1. Say Hello to a Healthier Heart
2. Periods Are Much Easier Than Before
3. Paves Way for a Great Conjugal Life
4. Lesser Risks of Cancer
5. Reduces the Effect of PCOS
6. Lowers the Risk of Breast Cancer
7. Lowers the Risk of Multiple Sclerosis
8. Welcome, Gorgeous Hair
9. Helps You Embrace a Healthy Lifestyle
10. Get Surprised By Your Own Patience
https://parenting.firstcry.com/articles/list-of-10-unexpected-pregnancy-health-benefits/
I do love it when pro-abortion retards prove their anti-science bonafides.
Stop making the pro-choice side look so fucking stupid.
Getting the everlasting shit kicked out of you by your betters in the culture war for decades has made you cranky and disaffected, Rob Misek.
There's no problem there that replacement won't solve, though.
I don’t consider that other people making irrational choices that result in them hurting themselves and others is in any way affecting me.
What I choose to think, how I feel and act does. I own that, not you.
If any of you fuckwits ever refuted anything I said, I would be inconsolable.
There’s not much chance of that though.