Brickbat: Maybe Your Next Flight Should Be on a Train

The French government says it will ban flights between cities connected by trains if the train trip* take less than two and a half hours. Officials said the move is aimed at increasing train ridership and cutting greenhouse gas emissions. The ban will begin next year and will last three years, but it could be extended.

* This brickbat has been corrected to reflect that the ban is connected to the length of the train trip.

Comments

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[Adans smith]

So, the choice is being stuck for hours on a train or on a plane with a bunch of smelly French? I'll pass.

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[Davy C]

If a flight lasts 2.5 hours, how long is the train ride, typically?

[Will Nonya]

I don't know but a common regional jet can reach around 550 mph awhile a fast train would be around d 200.

[MWAocdoc]

It's not just how long it takes between take-off and landing; it's also commuting to the airport with or without parking, getting through security which can take up to two hours and isn't cheap; and boarding and deplaning and waiting for your luggage. The trains in Europe travel faster than American trains do and are not nearly as impacted by bad weather or traffic congestion as airlines are. Once you assume that it's government's job to promote and regulate private travel and even provide the infrastructure, then it's simply a matter of balancing the tradeoffs. Of course, it's reasonable to question whether government should be involved at all, but this particular rule doesn't make less sense than the rest of them, and perhaps a lot better sense than most.

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[mpercy]

Does the train come by my house or something? I still have to commute to the train station. Is there no security at a train station? Don't trains have to board and detrain passengers? Are trains free?

[Davedave]

Yes, good catch. It's actually if the train ride takes <2.5hrs.

[Jerryskids]

France is roughly the size of Texas, how many flights take 2.5 hours? Unless they count Cessnas that fly at about 70 mph (120 furlongs per hogshead in metric), I can't imagine there are that many flights. Have the French recently opened new rail service between 2 cities that are the requisite distance apart? Who benefits from the requirement for rail travel? That's where I'd start my investigation.

[Utkonos]

A Tale of Two Cities? In France? Now let’s not lose our heads here!

[Michael P]

Davy C- The Yahoo article says it's the train journey that has to be less than 2.5 hours, not the flight. And there are some time-of-day requirements on the train schedule and whether the flights are international connections also. End result:

The three major air routes that will be banned are between Paris’s Orly airport and the French cities of Lyon, Nantes and Bordeaux.

The travel time goes from about 65 or 70 minutes (Paris to Lyons by air) to 115 minutes (by TGV, apparently cheaper); or 65~70 minutes (Paris to Nantes by air) to 137 minutes by train; or 75~80 minutes (Paris to Bordeaux by air) to 130 minutes by train. Those flight times are from CDG; the flights from Orly have already stopped so you can't find the flight times easily. That was a condition of a post-Covid bail-out for Air France.

And... You can still fly from Paris to those cities, but you have to use Charles de Gaulle airport instead. Apparently, France wanted to ban those too (plus Paris-to-Rennes and Marseilles-to-Lyon) but those bans died because the train trips ended up just over 150 minutes or didn't run often enough.

[kcuch]

Top Men picking winners and losers. Can't wait to read the expose on the Unintended Consequences that result.

You'd think that everyone for whom the train is a good option would already be riding it. For those requiring coercion, it is obviously a lesser option.

[Rod Flash]

Especially since, I would assume, a train trip would be significantly less expensive than a flight. If both take around the same amount of time, and the train is cheaper and allows you to avoid the shitty airport experience, I would think that most people would already be choosing it and no govermental coercion would be needed.

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When people have the freedom to choose, they will choose wrong.
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[mpercy]

I read a book once about Top Men and how everyone had to travel by train...

[GroundTruth]

Until the train workers went on strike?

[cgr2727]

Devil’s advocate: the Euros have excellent rail service that generally runs on time, goes where you want to go, and is a whole lot more comfortable than a plane. If I take the train, I walk into a train station right off the street, head down to the platform and step on board on a schedule I can predict to the minute, then walk off with any luggage I might have right into the center of town, or at a stop close to where I want to be, or at least in a place that’s readily accessible by car for whoever is picking me up. By plane is a relative nightmare: snarled traffic, far outside town away from any place I actually want to be, security, delays, cattle style boarding,etc. But I don’t need some cheese-eating surrender monkey forcing the decision on me. In that case I’d import an F-350 and coal-roll my way from the Channel to the Med just out of spite.

[KiwiDude]

For sure, train travel between European cities is way better than a plane ride for exactly the reasons you said.
Walk to train station, walk on board (with your luggage, so its wont end up in Iceland), an hour or so watching the countryside go past, walk off train (with your luggage) right at your new destination.

Not saying that this is a good thing the frogs are talking about forcing to happen, at all. It is/should be something that people want to do without govt intervention

[DaveM]

I'm just here to draw the obvious parallel between politicians who think they know better than the travelers themselves which mode to use, and Libertarians who think they know better than voters themselves which candidate choice is "intentionally ignorant".

Elitism: it's turtles all the way down.

[TJJ2000]

Why do Gov-Guns have to dictate F'En everything?
Because the weather changes... That's why... /s
Could humanity get any stupider?

[WE] mobs RULE by poking Gov-Guns at those icky people seems to be the new path to undeserved self-significance. It's gangland (I'm cool/bullying) mentality 101.

[mad.casual]

Define 'cabotage':
cabotage - noun. - The transportation of passengers and goods within the same country.

Use the word 'cabotage' in a sentence:
Reason Magazine routinely advocates that we ditch The Jones Act and adopt the EU's cabotage rules for greater socio-economic liberty and prosperity.

[Agammamon]

cgr2727

If the trains are so good - why does the government have to use violence to make people use them?

[Mickey Rat]

@ Michael P - The lack of restrictions at Charles De Gaulle likely have to do with that being Air France's hub Airport where overseas travelers are getting connecting flights. Making them get on a train to get to their destination will drive business to KLM or Lufthansa.

[mad.casual]

@cgr2727

The Social(ist) Democrats' grass is always greener on the other side of the pond where other Top Men are in charge. Light or 'underground' systems are generally better, but the heavy or above ground systems are the same or worse. The rail system is better there as long as you don't try and leave your pen or, conversely, they're about equal between here and there, it's just that the US is a much larger pen.

[Minadin]

Socialists really love those trains.

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[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

"You’d think that everyone for whom the train is a good option would already be riding it. For those requiring coercion, it is obviously a lesser option."

Aren't you adorable, still judging things in terms of what the peasants think.

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[Dillinger]

comment dit-on "graft" en Francais?

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[CE]

Old unelected French monarchy: "Let them eat cake!"
New unelected French monarchy: "Let them ride trains!"
No wait, I mean, "Make them ride trains!"

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[IceTrey]

Liberté, égalité, fraternité!
OK no liberte.

[Fats of Fury]

The natives already ride the trains. It's either aimed at the tourists, notably Americans, or simply Eco virtue signaling.

[GroundTruth]

"Liberty, Fraternity, Equality" - ain't it great!