At the U.N.'s Climate Change Conference, Nuclear Power Is Finally Getting Some Respect
The bigger problem now is that outmoded regulations stand in the way of deployment.

SHARM EL-SHEIKH, Egypt — "People do need to understand the importance of atoms as part of the clean energy future," declared U.S. Secretary of Energy Jennifer Granholm at COP27. "Nuclear is finding its way back to acceptance and real enthusiasm."
Granholm was speaking at the opening of a panel discussion on nuclear power's role in a sustainable and secure low-carbon energy future on Wednesday. While addressing the problem of manmade climate change explains part of the growing enthusiasm for no-carbon nuclear power, the global energy crisis sparked by Russia's invasion of Ukraine—along with the suspicious blowing up of the Nord Stream pipelines—is further impetus toward deploying nuclear generation. The result is that this latest episode of massive oil and natural gas price volatility has greatly heightened interest in how nuclear power can play a role in energy independence and security.
Granholm specifically noted that Poland has just signed an agreement with Westinghouse to build its first-ever nuclear power facility with a generating capacity of 3,750 megawatts. "The need for permanent independence from energy supplies and energy carriers from Russia is associated with the need to accelerate the implementation of investments in the construction of the first nuclear power plant in Poland," declared a resolution from the Polish government approving the deal. Granholm further pointed out at COP27 that the U.S. and Romania have just announced a $3 billion deal to partially finance two new nuclear units in the latter country. "We think Eastern Europe will be the center of next-generation nuclear power," declared Granholm. (In fact, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, and the Czech Republic have all signed memorandums of understanding with American nuclear company NuScale Power to deploy its next-generation small modular reactors, or SMRs, as I reported back in June.)
With respect to the role that nuclear power will play in the low-carbon energy future, Granholm observed that the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has reported that the world will need to double or triple the amount of power supplied by nuclear energy in order to reach the global goal of net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. Net-zero is defined as "cutting greenhouse gas emissions to as close to zero as possible, with any remaining emissions re-absorbed from the atmosphere, by oceans and forests for instance."
Granholm's figures mirror those provided by Diane Cameron during an earlier panel discussion focused on whether nuclear power could replace fossil fuels in the economic development of poor countries. Cameron, a nuclear power expert with the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development's Nuclear Energy Agency, cited recent studies by her agency that found that "nuclear must triple its installed global capacity from 400 gigawatts to 1200 gigawatts electric before 2050" in order to meet the Paris Agreement's aspirational goal of keeping average global temperatures from rising 1.5 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels. Cameron noted that globally, 50 new nuclear plants are currently being built and plans for around 100 more are being considered.
In her reflection on COP27, panelist Carol Berrigan, the executive director of federal programs and supplier relationships at the Nuclear Energy Institute, observed that "the conversation around nuclear power is much different than it was 10 years ago." Berrigan added, "We are getting stronger and stronger support" as more "people are recognizing that clean nuclear will play a big role in the world's energy future." Berrigan specifically pointed out the growing number of bills in U.S. state legislatures that support nuclear power as well as strong bipartisan support in Congress. It is worth noting that the Inflation Reduction Act includes power production tax credits that would help nuclear generators compete with already highly subsidized solar and wind power. (Here's an idea: Just get rid of all energy subsidies.)
Both the low-carbon future panel and replacing fossil fuels panel at COP27 were highly bullish on the development and deployment of SMRs. SMRs are designed to be safe, deliver power flexibly, and manufactured at scale. Granholm cited the 345-megawatt Natrium demonstration reactor being built on the site of an old coal-fired plant in Wyoming. Besides generating 24/7 power, the plant will also store enough heat in molten salt to generate an extra 150 megawatts on demand that could keep up with the vagaries of wind and solar generation. The panelists pointed out that SMRs can be designed to replace fossil fuels by providing process heat for making steel, concrete, and chemicals. In addition, when not necessary for them to supply electricity to the grid, they can be used for desalination and the production of hydrogen. "We can decarbonize the entire economy," boldly declared Sama Bilbao y León, the director general of the World Nuclear Association. Here's a question: Since no-carbon nuclear power is 24/7 and can supply process heat, just exactly why does the world need to deploy massive amounts of land- and materials-intensive renewables to address the problem of manmade climate change?
So, is economic development possible without fossil fuels? "Development and industrialization have never happened without heavy reliance on fossil fuels," observed Cameron. Nevertheless, she believes that advanced nuclear technologies could leapfrog fossil fuels. "Energy is required for development; let's prove that fossil fuels are not necessary for development," Cameron declared. The panel noted that the need for access to modern sources of power is enormous. Nearly 1 billion people, of whom 600 million are Africans, still do not have access to electricity. However, Cameron argued, "It is the moral responsibility of the developed world to demonstrate solutions like SMRs work" before seeking to deploy them in developing countries.
Inevitably, the issue of how to handle nuclear waste came up during the question period. "There is waste from everything," tartly observed Alan Woods, the head of SMR strategy at Rolls Royce. In a jab at fossil fuels, he added, "The nuclear power industry does not throw its waste into the atmosphere or the oceans." President of the Canadian Nuclear Association John Gorman asserted, "Nuclear waste has never harmed much less killed anyone." He added, "Nuclear power is the only industry that is accountable for every particle of the wastes it produces and pre-pays for its safe handling." Here's another suggestion: Open the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository site.
While acceptance of nuclear power is growing among policy makers and even among some environmental activist groups, the dead hand of regulation remains a big barrier to deploying climate-friendly nuclear power. "We don't have the support that the U.S. has for nuclear power," said Europe's FORATOM Director General Yves Desbazeille. Even though 25 percent of Europe's electricity and 50 percent of its low-carbon generation comes from nuclear power, Desbazeille lamented that some European commissioners still "will not even pronounce the N-word." Bilbao y León agreed: "Regulatory approvals are a huge bottleneck. We still need to figure out how to streamline regulations to enable a fast build-out."
"Let's do this," encouraged Granholm at the end of her remarks. "You've got the framework; we just need the power."
Well, no. The old regulatory frameworks remain. In order to get the power, policy makers like Granholm first need to knock down the regulatory barriers that still stand in the way of a clean nuclear energy future.
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"...Desbazeille lamented that some European commissioners still "will not even pronounce the N-word."
So Desbazeille is openly racist, huh?
>>Granholm was speaking ... on nuclear power's role ... on Wednesday.
everybody not involved in the Green baloney has been speaking on it for 50 years
I see there are now 8 billion people on Earth.
It is pretty clear somebody gots to go, so the obvious solution is wind energy without those unsightly bird killing turbines, and solar without all those unsightly panels taking up valuable land space for non GMO/ organic gardening. After enough people have died, then there should be plenty of grid for all of the electric cars, too.
Yes, it is called magical thinking [aka "Green New Deal"] for a reason.
covid was a good plan - kill all the Oldies and destroy the hearts of the "vaccinated" ... diesel & food shortages & nuclear war next
If anyone has got to go, just cleanse the left.
So long as we have liberals we can make biodiesel and fertilizer.
Pretty simple process actually.
Common sense from bureaucrats??? Amazing!
The UN has decided it needs to get involved, so it can fuck it up.
"We think Eastern Europe will be the center of next-generation nuclear power," declared Granholm.
Good to see the US Energy Secretary is hawking nuclear power in Europe. SMDH.
As surely as C02 can absorb the warming infrared, the strong nuclear force is millions of times stronger than the chemical bonds that are burst in unleashing heat from coal. Rather than embarking down the soft energy path that leads back beyond the Industrial Revolution's roots into a future dark age, the Greens should pause to consider the effect on the environment of renewing and perfecting our mastery of the atom's pale fire.
The prospect of nuclear power's second coming presents environmental millenarians with a real source of cognitive dissonance: it is they who are the problem. It is their delaying tactics that wasted years and squandered billions at Seabrook and elsewhere. And it is their past indifference to the environmental consequences of the fossil fuel that the reactor might have saved that makes a mockery of their present rhetoric.
The sooner their paranoia about nuclear waste disposal is laid to rest alongside that waste itself-deep in the and badlands, well secured, and as soon as the criminal mischief of Chernobyl is buried under the foundations of a reactor both safe and sanely contained, the sooner will civilization cease to he obliged to make a chemical waste repository of the sky.
A War Against Fire The National Interest Summer 1990
Absolutely. The screaming environmental safety toddlers set back "green" energy by at least four decades.
Well said. Clean and predictable. Hey look, if the French (not known, historically, for their technical expertise), can do this, we can do this.
As far as Green virtual signaling extremists go, their elitist and alarmism borders on paranoia, and they’ve become a cult (& politically a “one trick pony”). Let me know when you see a 53’ semi powered by a solar panel.
Be careful what you wish against. At a merely pro-nuclear level of level of techooptimism , one has a duty to remark that as the roof of a 53' semi can soak up 40kw on a summer's day, with photovoltaics, a powerwall and an extension cord, one might catch a tow from a Tesla.
Trying to find the libertarian angle here.
Bureaucrats across the world are trying to regulate our energy.
Some of those Bureaucrats have decided it is better to buy, encourage, or at least stop regulatory blocking of Nuclear.
All of this is being done because commies have cloaked neo-malthusian central planning in computer models and scared the shit out of teenage autistic girls who shout for us to DO SOMETHING!
Pro-Nuke Government Cronies vs Crypto-Luddite Government Tyrants...It's like a Raiders vs Patriots game- the only good outcome is a meteor strike. Except I am stuck in the stadium and can't get out (Faster please, Mr Musk).
"or at least stop regulatory blocking of Nuclear. "
What regulations are you keen on scrapping? China, with the world's most active nuclear program, never had regulations requiring environmental and citizen review. I think most regulations are put in place as a result of accidents caused by human error. Rolling back these regulations seem the heighth of folly, willfully ignoring hard won lessons. Regulations to ensure sound, but otherwise less profitable construction materials and methods? You really think we'd be well served by scrapping these?
I understand deregulation is a popular buzzword among the neo liberals, but man, oh man, the hubris of it all is breathtaking.
"I think most regulations are put in place as a result of accidents caused by human error."
Well there is your problem. You are thinking again, and that just isn't your strong suit. And as usual, you are going to pick out a tiny thing I mentioned as a hook to digress into a silly conversation where you get to engage in your hero worship of totalitarian murderers. It took you only three sentences to get to China! What a good little commie propagandist you are.
What regulations do you think should be scrapped? China has already done away with the environmental and citizen reviews you'll find in a democracy. Is that enough, or must we go further? You're the one calling for deregulation. I'm curious if your call has any more substance than simply parroting neo liberal slogans.
I want to build a nuclear power plant on a large parcel of rural land, that's otherwise sitting unused and undeveloped currently.
How long do you think it will be before my plant opens? And why do you think it will take that long?
Tell me what regulations you are planning to ignore? You'll need a lot of concrete, no doubt. Are you going to cut corners by using sea sand in the mix?
It's weird how everyone likes to talk about scrapping regulations, but shuts up mighty quick when it comes to specifics.
I'm going to follow all of the rules, codes, and regulations. Local, state, and federal.
Very admirable. You might save a lot of time and money installing wind mills instead. There are drawbacks to wind, too, of course. There is no perfect source of energy. It's also possible that we may have to make do with less energy than we use today. We may have to adopt a vegetarian diet. Forgoing plastic straws. We may have to put aside nationalism and our warlike ways and learn to cooperate on a global scale. If we take this CO2 stuff seriously, there are many changes and sacrifices that will have to be made.
Yes, we already know that getting other people to sacrifice is the actual goal of climate change alarmists.
I still want to build my nuclear power plant. Brand new, with all the up-to-date technology and safety and everything. It will be the most modern and safest in the world on the day it's designed.
How long until it opens?
"Yes, we already know that getting other people to sacrifice is the actual goal of climate change alarmists."
If you've got a solution to this climate change that doesn't entail sacrifice on anyone's part, let us know.
"How long until it opens?"
30 years was what I read about a recent plant in Finland. Maybe 4 years in China.
You are a special kind of idiot. Ignorant and proud of it.
“You’re the one calling for deregulation.”
Please. Show me where my post called for deregulation. You won't because that wasn't the point of the post. Maybe if you stop looking to pump the totalitarian CCP you love, you could pause and re-read it.
Now you've decided you're in favor of regulating the nuclear industry. I'm glad I've convinced you that these calls for rolling back nuclear regulation are empty and foolish. In the space of an hour, no less.
“Now you’ve decided you’re in favor of regulating the nuclear industry.”
Oh look, you still can’t figure out what I said. Read again. I mean you are almost uniquely terrible at this.
To make it easier for you, I’ll make it plain: I did not argue for or against regulation in the post you responded to. All I did was point out that none of the stuff Bailey described in the article was from a libertarian standpoint.
You are a bad parody of pavlov’s dog. They’d hear a bell and start salivating. You read a single word like “Regulation” or “China” and start babbling your marxist totalitarian worship.
"a libertarian standpoint."
Deregulation is a libertarian standpoint. Or has someone else persuaded you otherwise?
Please change the subject further. No one will notice. Really.
The regulations applying the US nuclear power industry should be largely scrapped. They were based on an evolving technology that made each reactor unique as the designs evolved. The result is a very high cost for no real benefit.
The new reactors sold are all standardized designs largely if not completely factory built with standardized processes and predictable quality control. In general the safety systems are no longer active but rather passive resulting in safe shutdown even on loss of all power and control.
So yes, most of our regulatory structure for nuclear energy (based on a immature industry) needs to be eliminated and replaced with a smaller and more limited structure appropriate to a mature, standards based industry.
What regulations do you think should be scrapped?
NEPA. Specifically environmental impact reports. All they do is cost time and money.
"NEPA. Specifically environmental impact reports. "
In other words, we should become more like the Chinese and worry less about things environmental. A strange idea given that environmental concerns are driving this the desire to go nuclear. I think the impulse to minimize the risk and impact of nuclear power is not foolish or misplaced. We mustn't let ourselves be rushed into making commitments that we will regret later.
According to mtrueman, you can only do things like US currently does, or China does. If you don't do one you must be doing the other.
Your adoption of federal regulations as the solution to all problems would be cute if it did not cause so much poverty and hardship.
Windmills for power generation are crap. – They require LOTS of minerals to build that are environmentally damaging to obtain and difficult to recycle. – Windmills blades are made from petroleum based resins and graphite fibers. These have a limited lifespan, often as short as 2 years, and are not currently recyclable so they are landfilled. – Windmills (along with photovolactics) provide power on an intermittant, and unscheduled basis. Power generation needs one of two things, base load power that constantly runs at a constant level, and swing power that can rise and fall quickly to meet changes in power needs. Windmills are actually useless unless they are close to a hydroelectric plant where they can pump the water up into the dam. (essentially charging the “battery”.
For these reasons and for many more, Windmills are not a serious solution to anything except powering a remote camp on a temporary basis or killing migratory birds.
re: "I think most regulations are put in place as a result of accidents caused by human error."
You may think that but you are wrong. Most regulations of the nuclear industry are based on fantastical assumptions and guesses about possible risk and improbable assumptions about what might reduce those risks, not actual accidents or actual errors.
Some of those regulations are the result of "hard won lessons" - and those should be preserved. But that is a tiny, tiny fraction of the total.
Fukushima was built on the assumption that an earthquake greater than mag 8.6 was impossible and would never happen. Building the facility to withstand anything greater than that would be a waste of money, time and resources. Then in March 2011, the fantastical happened. A mag 9.1 earthquake. Now you know the rest of the story. Good day!
That was not an assumption in the construction of the Fukushima plant. Nor is that magnitude specified in any regulation - which makes the example irrelevant to your mindless defense of regulations.
“That was not an assumption in the construction of the Fukushima plant.”
You think the plant was designed without any consideration of earthquakes? Unlikely. They have several earthquakes every day. Small ones, granted, but earthquakes are never far from the mind of the Japanese.
“Nor is that magnitude specified in any regulation”
Really? I imagine earthquake tolerances are part of Japan’s building code, especially for large structures housing toxic materials. It’s likely that the owners specified a threshold for the designers to aim for. A threshold they mistakenly assumed to be impossibly high.
“which makes the example irrelevant to your mindless defense of regulations.”
But not human error which lies at the heart of nuclear accidents. The error in this case lies in the assumption that a power plant built to withstand a mag 8.6 earthquake would be enough to avert any conceivable earthquake. It wasn’t.
I’m not sure what you’re driving at here. You really think Japan doesn’t consider earthquakes in their building code, or that the assumption that a tolerance for mag 8.6 quakes was sufficient?
Fukushima survived the earthquake.
The Fukushima Earthquake and subsequent tsunami killed over 20,000 people. Many were swept to frozen seas from over 100 evacuation sites. Thousands were killed in the freezing snow that carried on through the night, there.
Fukushima was destroyed because it couldn't survive 130-foot tsunami waves. These overwhelmed the sea walls of the plant, destroying the generators that were providing power to the cooling system, ultimately leading to a meltdown.
The number of people killed by radiation from the reactor meltdown is somewhere between 0 and hundreds. No one died of acute radiation poisoning. Some 1400 indirectly died due to being evacuated in winter (though many would likely have been evacuated from hospitals anyways) and from remaining in temporary shelters.
Viewed in that context, the regulations for nuclear power plants *are* in fact overwrought and driven by irrational fear. A failure to plan for 130-foot (!!!!) waves killed tens of thousands of people at insufficient evacuation sites. The same failure to anticipate 130-foot waves at a nuclear power plant led to nearly zero direct deaths, and a tiny fraction of indirect deaths.
This is a perfect example of how the risk-analysis of nuclear is terribly, overly burdensome compared to the actual risk.
"Fukushima was destroyed because it couldn’t survive 130-foot tsunami waves."
The tsunami waves caused by the mag 9.1 quake? Those waves? Or do you have some other waves in mind?
The earthquake did not destroy the plant. And rather than accept the L, or deal with the totality of what I wrote, you are going into lawyer mode.
Nevertheless my point stands. You thought it was clever bringing up Fukushima as an example of how dangerous nuclear power plants are. But they aren’t. Magnitude 9.1 earthquakes (and the subsequent 130 ft tsunamis) are deadly. The plant suffered a catastrophic failure due to an unprecedented natural disaster and that resulted in deaths that amount to a rounding error.
If you were really concerned about the public safety, you wouldn’t be shedding crocodile tears about the Fukushima reactor. You’d instead be sparing concern for evacuation sites, evacuation routes, and evacuation procedures because in the Magnitude 9.1 earthquake (and subsequent 130 ft tsumami) these- not the nuclear reactor- wound up leading to the deaths of tens of thousands.
But, you and I know we will never see you tut-tutting about the elevations of evacuation sites, and the dangers of having a largely foot-bound population located next to a tsunami danger zone. Because- adoring Mao disciple that you are- mass graves mean nothing to you unless they can be used in service of the glorious revolution.
"You thought it was clever bringing up Fukushima as an example of how dangerous nuclear power plants are. But they aren’t."
I agree. Nuclear power plants in themselves aren't dangerous. The history of their use makes it clear. The problem is that they are designed and operated by humans. Humans are fallible. They get tired, they cut corners, they show off to impress their comrades and superiors, they try to second guess a system of enormous complexity. They cause accidents. The history makes this clear. The Fukushima plant was ill designed. You can't blame the earthquake, as these are a daily occurrence, you can't blame the reactor, as it was only following the laws of physics. You can blame the people who failed to anticipate contingencies in the pursuit of cost cutting and profit.
You didn’t prove that people “cut corners” or “get tired”. You merely showed that all our preparations and contingencies can be undone by one of the worst natural disasters in a nation’s history. And you (unwittingly) exposed that when such contingencies fail the consequences for nuclear are far, far lower than contingency failures in other areas (c.f. hundreds of evacuation sites that were washed away, leading to thousands of deaths).
You thought it was clever to bring up Fukushima as an example of how nuclear is not a good idea. What you in fact exposed is that a 9.1 Magnitude Earthquake and 133 foot tsunami kills tens of thousands of people, of which a handful can be attributed to nuclear. Your point is wrong.
Fukushima is a Generation One GE reactor that as originally designed has some shortcomings. It had some sister reactors in the US that were upgraded numerous times over the years to correct these issues and have since been decommissioned. (They are OLD.)
Due to serious corruption between the Japanese government and the electrical utilities, the upgrades (from GE) that the US facilities got were not performed to the facility at Fukushima.
ALL of the issues involved in the Fukashima accident were directly a result not of insufficient regulation, but rather corruption in the Japanese government. It does not matter what regulations you have if you can bribe your way out of complying with them.
Add to that some REALLY stupid design decisions like putting the backup generators for the safety systems in a basement near the ocean as well! (Note that the new reactors have PASSIVE safety systems that do not require backup power to function.)
“I think most regulations are put in place as a result of accidents caused by human error.”
You don’t think, you just emote.
🙁
I'll admit I larfed.
Check out this article
https://constructionphysics.substack.com/p/why-are-nuclear-power-construction
You'll see that retooling of the regulatory structure in the context of mass produced small modular reactors would have a massive impact on the costs to build next gen power plants.
They want to control the world’s energy supply. It’s part of the globalist plan.
"Trying to find the libertarian angle here."
Didn't even cross Reason Editor's minds.
It doesn’t appear to be a goal, or even desirable as an editorial policy.
The libertarian angle is "stop regulatory blocking of nuclear". Not sure why that was hard to find.
Yeah but that wasn't really the angle of the ARTICLE.
That article is largely a survey of what industry lobbyists and bureaucrats are saying about nuclear right now. It glowingly reports on the US sending money to Hungary to build nuclear generation (wtf?!) and Poland's government funding another build out. And it then goes on to talk about how one of the most unlibertarian institutions of all: the UN, and IPCC, are now getting happy about nuclear.
None of these things are libertarian. Liking nuclear is not pro- or anti- libertarian. If you really believe that climate change is an existential threat that must be managed internationally by a cabal of regulators and career diplomats, this article has plenty for you.
The biggest problem is believing in climate catastrophe in the first place.
And believing that the way to stop it is in coerced collective action.
And notice that Mr Bailey falls right into the trap. He considers it "success" that the Polish government is funding a nuclear program, as if a nationalized power plants are something we should be happy about.
Without regard to the enviromental "crisis", it would be a good thing to move to nuclear power for base load generation. A coal powered plant actually emits more radiation than a nuclear plant does due to the ash pile that is itself expensive to dispose of properly.
“nuclear power can play a role in energy independence and security.”
Not sure how we arrive at that. If we can blow up a pipeline at the bottom of the sea, a nuclear power plant sitting out in the open on the surface is even less secure.
“The nuclear power industry does not throw its waste into the atmosphere or the oceans.”
Except for the past 10 years off the coast of Fukushima.
“It is the moral responsibility of the developed world to demonstrate solutions like SMRs work”
They work only as long as they are fueled. The problem is that the fuel supply is unevenly distributed across the globe, much like oil, and I fear this will turn any region blessed with deposits of uranium into perennial meat grinders of conflict, like the middle east with its oil and gas. We’ve already seen what the Congo’s uranium deposits have done for her. They went from a hell hole fueled by rubber resources to uranium to coltan and now uranium again? The nice thing about renewables like sunlight, is that it is much more evenly distributed around the globe. There is little chance of resource fueled wars over a country’s sunshine. Controlled nuclear fusion is also an improvement. Its fuel is abundant world wide, no waste by products, and little or no chance of an energy program diverted to weapons production.
The pipeline is a single-point failure that shuts down lots of production at a ton of different plants when people are heavily relying on the resource. A series of plants is more dispersed. Nobody blew up a single production facility in Germany or Russia to cause this crisis.
Beyond that, the fact that it's hidden from plain sight means that it's more vulnerable to potential saboteurs who want to remain hidden. If you want to blow up a nuclear plant, you're doing it in broad daylight and you're completely caught doing it.
" If you want to blow up a nuclear plant, you’re doing it in broad daylight and you’re completely caught doing it."
During WWII Americans bombed Dresden in broad daylight. The transportation system could be more accurately targeted this way. It was riskier though, which is why the British opted for safer but more indiscriminate night time bombing.
This is absurd, even for you.
The bombing of Dresden is an example of the widespread and wonton destruction of an entire infrastructure system. If it is an example of what we should be concerned about, then there is nothing special about solar. A country that chooses to firebomb a metropolis into the dark ages will destroy your nuclear plant, your solar concentration farm, your giga-factory, and solar panel assembly yards all in one shot.
Your analogy was stupid, but you keep doubling down. The idea that a hundreds-of-miles-long pipeline in international waters is somehow comparable to a small nuclear reactor within a country's borders is the sort of hackery that only a propagandist like yourself would say with a straight face.
"The bombing of Dresden is an example of the widespread and wonton destruction of an entire infrastructure system. "
You are underestimating American squeamishness about wanton destruction of life and property. Pilots put their lives and the lives of their crew at risk to deliver their payloads as accurately as possible. In Japan, destruction of cultural treasure troves like Kyoto was altogether avoided by decisions made at the highest level.
"The idea that a hundreds-of-miles-long pipeline in international waters is somehow comparable to a small nuclear reactor"
Both are facilities necessary to an energy infrastructure. Both are vulnerable to attack. The idea they are somehow secure is mistaken. If you think that a nuclear power plant can't be attacked and destroyed by an enemy determined to do so, you need to think a little harder.
"You are underestimating American squeamishness about wanton destruction of life and property."
And you are once again digressing from the point at hand to deliver yet another one of your "Ackshewally" irrelevancies.
You suggested that the bombing of Dresden was somehow evidence that solar is preferable because such a belligerent would be able to destroy a nuclear reactor, but not solar generation. This is imbecilic gibberish.
The bombing of Dresden killed somewhere between 20-50% of the population there and destroyed pretty much every piece of heavy infrastructure in the city. If a belligerent was capable of (and willing to deliver) such drastic destruction to reduce your power generation, then it doesn't matter what your power generation is. They will blow up your reactor. They will destroy your solar farm. They will destroy your power lines and your battery bunkers and your solar panel factories.
"Both are facilities necessary to an energy infrastructure. Both are vulnerable to attack. The idea they are somehow secure is mistaken."
No one is arguing that they "are secure". One is easier to protect than another. As is pretty much any power generation scheme that will power a civilization that does anything more than basic subsistence. You are not going to power smelting, bus factories and all the other staples of life with solar panels on roofs or turbine farms across the street from where you grew up. Even if you were to do solar, it will come down to stuff like concentrated solar farms, which are great big (vulnerable) industrial power generation facilities. And then on top of that, you will have distribution that can be interdicted (as is the case for the gas pipeline).
But protecting a pipeline that is hundred of miles long and in international waters is orders of magnitude more difficult to do than protecting a nuclear reactor in the middle of your country. And you make yourself look silly arguing that the risks to the former are somehow comparable to the latter.
"And you make yourself look silly arguing that the risks to the former are somehow comparable to the latter."
Both involve an interruption in energy supply. What's not to compare?
Yes, you can compare apples and oranges and dogs and squid too.
In this usage, "not comparable" means "the lessons you would glean from one are not applicable to the other". For example, the breathing of dogs are not comparable to the breathing of squid.
So once again: protecting hundreds of miles of pipeline in international waters is different than protecting a small nuclear power plant in your country. The vectors of attack are different. The surface area of vulnerability is different. Your ability to project control to that area of vulnerability is different. The mechanisms for detecting, intercepting and interdicting threats are different. They are dogs and squid. And arguing that the destruction of the pipeline somehow means we cannot protect nuclear power plants is silly.
"For example, the breathing of dogs are not comparable to the breathing of squid. "
Why not? Animals have to metabolize oxygen. Their methods differ. Squids (one of my favorite invertebrates) thrive at depths where oxygen levels are extremely low, but the result is the same. Attacking a pipeline differs from attacking a power plant, but both result in a population plunged into cold and dark.
"They will blow up your reactor. They will destroy your solar farm."
There are centralized and decentralized networks. Decentralized networks are recognized and being more resilient than the former. Resilient means flexible, able to return to original state after trauma.
There is no magical property of solar that makes it "decentralized" just as there is no unique property of nuclear that requires it to be more centralized.
If you want a decentralized power grid with nuclear, you can do it. And if you don't make drastic changes to our existing power grid today, it won't matter if you have industrial solar, or a million solar roofs, it will still be a fragile system prone to many single points of failure.
"If you want a decentralized power grid with nuclear, you can do it."
Typical nuclear power plants generate about a gigawatt, pretty big in other words, thanks to economy of scale. The bigger you make them, the more economically attractive the project is. The same doesn't appear to be the case with solar. I have a pocket calculator with a solar panel about 1 cm x 1 cm. Presumably the manufacturer makes money out of them. Wind can also easily be scaled down. I read about roadside generators that can convert the breeze from passing traffic into electricity and feed it to the grid. They are bigger than the solar panel that powers my calculator, but much much smaller than the 1 gigawatt nuclear power stations.
"And if you don’t make drastic changes to our existing power grid today,"
I think it's a dead cert that drastic changes to our existing power grid are in store if we are to exploit wind and sun. A globe spanning high voltage direct current grid will allow us to transmit electricity over long distances with minimal loss. That means at night or calm times we could still use electricity. It also means that others on the far side of the planet can do the same exploiting our sunshine and wind.
"Typical nuclear power plants generate about a gigawatt, pretty big in other words, thanks to economy of scale."
Because most nuclear power plants were built back when the Central Planners felt bigger was better. See also Hoover Damn and Autobahn. There is no reason modern nuclear power plants must be relatively large.
"The bigger you make them, the more economically attractive the project is."
Only because of the regulatory hurdles that make the costs of building multiple plants enormously prohibitive. You may not be aware of this, but there are small reactors puffing around the ocean as we sit here today inside aircraft carriers and submarines. They are perfectly economical, when the government lets you (or wants you to) build them.
"The same doesn’t appear to be the case with solar."
This is absolutely untrue and just shows how willing you are to spout nonsense as if it were fact.
I have said this before in this thread, but I will repeat it for you: If solar is going to be a significant component of our power grid, it absolutely will require industrial-style solar power plants. That means a big swath of land, with something like mirrors concentrating solar energy on a boiler system.
While a small scale solar cell is fine for your calculator, it will not support smelting factories and data centers, no matter how much you hand wave for unicorns. You will need large sources of power and these will be things like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility
"It also means that others on the far side of the planet can do the same exploiting our sunshine and wind."
Which, let's be clear, means the United States would have to be covered in solar and wind farms in order to provide (during the day) the power for 300 Million Americans, and 3 Billion Chinese and Indians. Your fantasies are cute, but ultimately infeasible. And let's not forget that the earth is not exactly a perfect distribution of sun and land masses.
Ultimately you are going to need some sort of batteries. They could be the mother-earth-raping rare metal batteries, or they could be more creative things like water pump storage systems. Regardless, you will forever play a balancing act: extremely distributed systems that require enormous environment damaging materials vs more centralized power sources that save resources through scale, at the price of being...er...centralized.
"There is no reason modern nuclear power plants must be relatively large. "
Tell that to the Indians and the Chinese. These are the two nations with the most active nuclear programs in the world. They build big nuclear reactors. 1 gigawatt or there about. They are not subject to American regulatory regime.
"They are perfectly economical, when the government lets you (or wants you to) build them. "
Maybe, but I don't think the government wants tens or hundreds of thousands of nuclear reactors scattered about the world, and for good reason. And even if they allowed it, I doubt they'd let you have the fuel to run them. Your idea of countless tiny reactors would likely result in more regulation, no less.
"If solar is going to be a significant component of our power grid, it absolutely will require industrial-style solar power plants."
I'm not keen on such facilities. I think controlled nuclear fusion is preferable which is why I support research and development into this technology. Once I thought that only governments were in the field, but I learned that private companies were also putting money into it. It shows that fusion is going beyond a mere scientific curiosity and has potential for practical application. I see solar best suited for decentralized applications such as buildings and other surfaces covered in electricity producing film for their own use and contributing excess power to a high voltage direct current grid which can transmit electricity around the world with minimal loss. These enormous solar facilities you are mentioning rub me the wrong way. I'm not crazy about the centralized aspect of controlled nuclear fusion, either, but if we are to do the smelting of metals, we'll need something like that.
"Which, let’s be clear, means the United States would have to be covered in solar and wind farms in order to provide (during the day) the power for 300 Million Americans, and 3 Billion Chinese and Indians."
It's not 'would have to.' You're assuming that we have no choice but to produce with renewables what we currently produce with fossil fuels. I think that's both impractical and unwarranted. Fossil fuels are terribly wasteful. The noise and heat from a running car are clear evidence of this. If renewables are to play a significant role, there will also be perhaps an equal effort and emphasis on reducing the waste of energy we all take for granted. That means a vegetarian diet, reusing products like containers rather than single use plastics, designing cities to allow for public transport and bicycle, insulated buildings which passively exploit sunlight, double glazed windows, emphasizing durability and repairability in products rather than planned obsolescence. In short, a world where intelligent and efficient use of energy and materials is paramount. And that's only the beginning. The social contract will have to be re-written allowing for more equitable distribution of wealth and resources, and nationalism is laid to rest. In the future we all may have no choice but to be utopians.
Did you READ the article at all?
"SMRs are designed to be safe, deliver power flexibly, and manufactured at scale. Granholm cited the 345-megawatt Natrium demonstration reactor being built on the site of an old coal-fired plant in Wyoming. Besides generating 24/7 power, the plant will also store enough heat in molten salt to generate an extra 150 megawatts on demand that could keep up with the vagaries of wind and solar generation."
A little bit of internet search effort would lead you to other companies providing 250 megawatt reactors, and some pre-fueled modular designs much smaller.
"The nice thing about renewables like sunlight, is that it is much more evenly distributed around the globe."
The nice thing about renewables like sunlight, is the elites can use it to promise vast energy gains with no dirty waste, while in reality it provides miniscule gains, is unreliable, and we already have landfills of old dead panels sitting around, while the new ones made are not an infinite resource, and we buy them from China (who dont do anything in a 'clean' fashion, certainly not anything pertaining to solar and batteries...).
It is the perfect combination of magical thinking and trust in govt that keeps uninformed, uneducated people behind them, willing to follow their lead, give them money, and trust that this govt energy solution wont be the equivalent of CA trying to build a high speed train: substantially over budget, substantially behind schedule, with next to no results. That is solar in a nutshell. And thats why they want to keep pursuing it. Because if you just govt a little harder this time, certainly itll work out.
"The nice thing about renewables like sunlight..."
Is that it is more or less evenly and reliably distributed across the globe. Exploiting it is not clean. It requires the mining of rare earth metals which are not evenly and reliably distributed across the globe. The sad fact is that any energy source we turn to will not be perfect and will have its drawbacks. Ideally, our scientists perfecting the harnessing of photosynthesis is what we want. Plants have been exploiting sunlight for as long as they've been on the planet without lifting a stem or stalk to mine rare metals.
"Exploiting it is not clean. "
Right so all of the positives are only positives if you hand-wave past the unseen costs. Which is of course why the pragmatist totalitarians you worship in China talk a good talk about "renewables" while plunking down coal-burning factories like hot cakes.
"Right so all of the positives are only positives if you hand-wave past the unseen costs. "
Every source of energy has positives and negatives. Sad but true. Our sun can blind us and burn our skin if we let ourselves be exposed to it long enough. You want a perfect source of energy, perhaps harnessing photosynthesis might be the best bet. Maybe you have another candidate you want to discuss? Don't be shy, I'm always willing to read your comments.
“You want a perfect source of energy, perhaps harnessing photosynthesis might be the best bet. ”
I don’t want a perfect anything. We have myriad potential solutions to our power needs, and the best thing that can be done is to let individuals address their own needs based on the information they have at hand. They can solve their problems without mental lightweights trying to command and control things with terrible hot-takes like, “Underwater international pipelines show that nuclear power plants are a bad idea!”
If you are concerned about environmental impact, nuclear is probably one of the least impactful forms of energy production available to us now. It is also expensive, and fraught with regulatory baggage. So it isn’t perfect for all use cases. Solar is fine if you are building a new roof in some specific regions, but is a bad tradeoff with horrible impact to environments it is deployed at scale (c.f. solar concentration plants outside Las Vegas.) Hydro Power can be quite effective if you are willing to concede the changes to local ecologies.
There are tons of solutions, and people should be free to chose the ones that make sense for them.
"There are tons of solutions, and people should be free to chose the ones that make sense for them."
Just like shampoo and breakfast cereals, right? This why libertarians are a joke. One solution to all and any problem.
"Just like shampoo and breakfast cereals, right?"
No, just like small factories and other industrial installations.
"This why libertarians are a joke. One solution to all and any problem."
No I want plans by the many, not plans by the few. The joke here has pretty much been you, captain.
"No, just like small factories and other industrial installations. "
It's a bit of a stretch calling food trucks 'industrial installations.'
But libertarians gotta libertarianate.
You are the one bringing up food trucks. For some reason you think that individuals are only capable of running small businesses. Perhaps this is because it is all your tiny brain can imagine. *shrug*
You are a religious fanatic. No amount of science, engineering, or economics shakes your predetermined path. Why are you here?
We’ve already seen what the Congo’s uranium deposits have done for her. They went from a hell hole fueled by rubber resources to uranium to coltan and now uranium again?
Maybe it's just a hell hole no matter what resources it has.
The nice thing about renewables like sunlight, is that it is much more evenly distributed around the globe
Bullshit. It's far more intense on the equator. The farther you get from it, the less solar energy you receive. Move far enough north, you don't get sunlight every day.
"Maybe it’s just a hell hole no matter what resources it has"
Maybe not.
"Move far enough north, you don’t get sunlight every day."
To paraphrase Horace Greeley: Go south young man.
When the north pole suffers through 24 hours of darkness, winter solstice, our penguins friends are basking under constant sunshine.
The world is a weird and wonderful place.
With the sun at an oblique angle. Sunlight at the poles doesn't have anywhere near the energy density of sun at the equator.
"Sunlight at the poles doesn’t have anywhere near the energy density of sun at the equator."
Best to avoid the poles if it's sunlight you want.
So now you're saying it's NOT more evenly distributed? Make up your mind.
"more evenly distributed around the globe..."
... than uranium deposits. Sunlight is more evenly distributed around the globe than uranium deposits. Agree, disagree, or retreat into silence?
That's not what you wrote. How heavy are those goalposts?
It is what I wrote. How heavy are those reading glasses?
Anyway what is it with you and sunlight? Are you seriously this obtuse or do you just like nipping at my poor ankles?
The resources needed to construct solar and wind are among the most rare elements around, thus the name rare earths. They are also far less distributed than uranium or thorium, therefore the supposed problem you are worried about is actually more acute with so called renewables than nuclear. God, why do you pontificate on subjects you are obviously not well versed in and obviously haven't taken the time to consider the implications of?
"The resources needed to construct solar and wind are among the most rare elements around, thus the name rare earths. "
Precisely why I am skeptical about solar as it stands today. Does wind also rely on rare earths? The farm across the street where I grew up had a wind mill. I don't believe there were any rare earths in it. Looked like it was entirely made of wood and iron. I thought it was the mechanical motion that generated the electricity, but these days solid state wind mills being research might utilize more exotic materials. I will look into it.
To generate the same amount of energy without using fossil fuels, controlled nuclear fusion might be our best bet. Photosynthesis too has some potential. We may find that using the same amount of energy is not possible and conservation measures will have to be implemented. Reusable glass bottles instead of single use plastics. Public mass transit and bicycle lanes instead of individually owned cars.
Most renewables fundamentally rely on battery power in order to turn their periodic, unreliable power generation into on-demand power supply. These batteries all require significant, environmentally deleterious materials and manufacture methods.
And it is hilarious that you bring up your Very Serious Concerns ™ about hellish labor conditions in Congo Uranium Mines while you seem to be oblivious of where we get the materials for your solar/wind batteries. (Hint: Even Huffpost knows that Congo children dig out the materials for those batteries)
"Most renewables fundamentally rely on battery power in order to turn their periodic, unreliable power generation into on-demand power supply. These batteries all require significant, environmentally deleterious materials and manufacture methods. "
Precisely. That's why I favor research and development into improved batteries, and I am also interested in high voltage direct current transmission. A globe spanning grid that allows us to avail ourselves of electricity from the opposite side of the planet when it is dark and calm. There are drawbacks to this solution as well. I imagine it will be expensive, require global cooperation, and require mining and construction.
"you seem to be oblivious of where we get the materials for your solar/wind batteries."
I didn't mean to seem oblivious, as I've pointed out time and time again, that no source of energy I'm aware of is perfect and without drawbacks. My problem with batteries and and solar is exactly what you point out. Perhaps a political solution is called for to help things out. England once employed children to mine coal and work the cotton mills for pennies a day. A political solution changed that.
" A globe spanning grid that allows us to avail ourselves of electricity from the opposite side of the planet when it is dark and calm."
Not sure how we arrive at that. If we can blow up a pipeline at the bottom of the sea, one would think you can blow up a power line running under that same sea.
An international pipeline proves that local nuclear is vulnerable, so we should switch to an international power distribution grid. Truly you have a dizzying intellect.
"one would think you can blow up a power line running under that same sea."
Unfortunately there are drawbacks to any solution. None are perfect.
"Unfortunately there are drawbacks to any solution"
Riiiight, let me get this right:
If we are talking about nuclear, the fact that people can blowup international, underwater distribution pipelines is a deal-killing, example of how unfeasible nuclear is.
But if we are talking about international power distribution systems, that same example of a pipeline is a "drawback".
This is a parody account, isn't it?
"Riiiight, let me get this right:"
Keep trying. It's really easier than it seems.
Oh was I wrong? Please. Illuminate me. You have been more than happy to nitpick and lawyer your way out of every other hole you dug. But now you are clamming up? What's wrong? It should be easy for you to explain how I've mistaken your arguments.
I'm really not following you. It seems clear to me that a nuclear power reactor presents an inviting target to wicked people intent on doing harm. Same can be said of a pipeline or oil refinery, etc but these don't have the added danger of radiation which harms man, beast, and plant life alike, for decades after the initial attack.
If you think that nuclear power plants can't be attacked, or any attack on them is of no consequence, make your case. Whatever it is you want to say, you haven't done so clearly yet.
"It seems clear to me that a nuclear power reactor presents an inviting target to wicked people intent on doing harm. "
It seems clear that any piece of infrastructure, including underwater power lines, solar concentration stations, molten salt energy reserves, fuel refineries, Wind farms, sea bases and sky scrapers, power distribution stations and government buildings are all inviting targets to people intent on doing harm.
"but these don’t have the added danger of radiation which harms man, beast, and plant life alike, for decades after the initial attack."
First of all, as we have seen with Fukushima and Chernobyl- which were worst case disasters- the risk to man, beast, and plant is pretty low. And this is your problem. You want to over-inflate the risks of nuclear, while downplaying the risks of your silly power-grid as "drawbacks".
You hype up Fukushima which- in a worst case scenario- ended with a handful of deaths. But if someone were to destroy an underwater power cable, an entire continent would go dark in the winter. You call this a drawback.
It is plainly obvious that you are grasping for something, anything, that can be hyped up as a deal-killer for nuclear, while handwaving like mad to minimize the costs of a silly global power grid that will never work.
re: "Does wind also rely on rare earths?"
At scale, yes. If you want to hook up a bicycle generator to the windmill in your backyard, you can do that with nothing more complicated that copper, steel, some cast iron and grease. And you'll get about enough energy to power a single light bulb. But even that only while the wind is blowing.
If you want actual efficiency, you have to use much higher technology and that involves rare earths. And if you want to store some of that energy so you can still have light on a calm day, you need much, much more for your batteries.
Of course, none of this will solve the root problem. Modern wind facilities are much bigger than mere steel can support. That means concrete. Lots and lots of concrete. Concrete is one of the most CO2-intensive operations there are. And it lasts about 25 years; then you get to do it all again. If you really care about long-term reductions in CO2, wind power is about the last option you should be considering.
"At scale, yes. "
That's unfortunate. On the positive side, once the facilities are built, the wind or sunshine that does the electricicalization is free and infinitely renewable. Fossil fuels and nuclear on the other hand, are constantly having to be replaced and constantly producing nasty waste products.
" Concrete is one of the most CO2-intensive operations there are. And it lasts about 25 years; then you get to do it all again. "
Much the same with nuclear power stations. Dams also require large amounts of concrete, but it's also a one time investment. As long as the water cycle is working, we can let nature do the rest. We don't have to take our dam down to the filling station and tell the guy to 'fill her up.' This is the benefit of renewables over non renewables. Unfortunately there are no perfect solutions, and sacrifice is all but inevitable if we are to take climate change seriously.
You're not listening. By the basic structure of a dam (that is, right next to or below a huge thermal mass that is above the freeze-thaw line), the concrete in a dam has a long useful life. The concrete used in the wind tower lasts 25 years if you're lucky. The total lifecycle CO2 output of a wind farm is higher than the CO2 output of a fossil fuel plant (on a per-gigawatt generated basis).
Nuclear plants use concrete that has to be periodically rebuilt but on a per-gigawatt basis, the nuke facility is miniscule compared to the volume of concrete needed for a wind facility.
Finally, your blithe assertions that wind and sunlight are "free" is stupidly naive. Solar panels cover vast swaths of land turning useful habitat into industrial wasteland. Wind farms pull energy out of the air and inevitably affect downwind weather, farm crops and a host of barely known adverse impacts. Calling that "free" is irresponsible.
" The concrete used in the wind tower lasts 25 years if you’re lucky. "
We'll need all the luck we can get if we are to get anything close to the energy we get from fossil fuels using only renewables. Frankly, I expect we'll have to make do with less energy. That means conservation, vegetarian diet, bye bye plastic straws, public transport, bicycle lanes. Wind towers lasting only 25 years will be the least of our worries.
"Finally, your blithe assertions that wind and sunlight are “free” is stupidly naive."
I have a pocket calculator with a small solar panel. I've used it for years and never had to pay any extra than the price I paid the day I bought it. I admit there are drawbacks and negative aspects to using it. It won't work in the dark, unlike battery powered calculators.
"Frankly, I expect we’ll have to make do with less energy."
Yeah, this is the real problem. Folks like you- who show that they don't understand anything about construction or energy production- keep trying to foist massive central plans on the world.
And when your "make do with less energy" naturally results in the poor having fewer resources and opportunities, you will blame everyone but your damn selves for the misery you created. SMH
"And when your “make do with less energy” naturally results in the poor having fewer resources and opportunities"
Reducing the enormous amount of waste we take for granted is another possibility. Do you oppose this? Something like 30% of the food humans produce goes to waste, uneaten. Don't you think that reducing this number, even by a small amount, is a worthy goal? What happened to conservatives when they feel it necessary to promote the gratuitous production of waste as a positive lifestyle?
"Reducing the enormous amount of waste we take for granted is another possibility. Do you oppose this? Something like 30% of the food humans produce goes to waste, uneaten."
Yes this shows how insane you are. You call "Surplus" waste. And you will call "famine" "eliminating waste". Because you are crazy.
Wonderful!
So share with us your waste free production and distribution system for food (a product requiring off season storage of a inherently spoilable product).
I am looking forward to your systems for storing grain with zero spoilage, transferring grain with zero spillage, distributing grain perfectly so it does not require long term storage at any point, and year-round production.
And that is just the easy stuff ... grain. Pray tell, enlighten us on your plans for fresh fruits and vegetables as well.
Thank goodness all the engineers, scientists, farmers, ag business' and more can relax now that you have eliminated all waste.
If the windmill was generating electric power, it was almost certainly connected to a permanent magnet alternator (more primitive than what's in your car, but the same principles at work).
"If the windmill was generating electric power"
I'm pretty sure that windmill owners will insist on the capability to generate electricity. Otherwise their utility is minimal.
On a farm? How about running a mechanical pump?
“Does wind also rely on rare earths? ”
Yes.
In order to generate significant power from windmills the generators must be very efficient and relatively compact. As a result, they use significant amounts of “rare earth minerals” in their construction.
In addition, windmills are expensive and difficult to maintain since the also have large mechanical transmission systems and the blades erode much more quickly that you might expect.
And that does not even consider the “rare earth metals” required if you want to use batteries as a way to level out the horrible power availability.
You suffer from a failure of the imagination.
I worked in a city near a dam with a commute road across it. Come 9-11, they shut down that road as a terrorist threat and added half an hour to my commute, each way.
There are probably millions of easy targets for even a non-suicidal terrorist.
* Load up a U-haul truck with 5 gallon gas cans, dribble them across a bridge, light it on fire.
* Load up a small power boat with a few hundred pounds of stolen dynamite, fuse it to explode a minute after you sink the boat at the face of a dam.
* Rent a sight-seeing flight, shoot the pilot, crash it into a mall or school. It doesn't take a lot of effort to keep a small plane flying for a few minutes before crashing it.
The point of terrorism is .... terror! Tying up a major commute bridge for even a few weeks of repairs, after a few dozen deaths; killing a few dozen shoppers or kids; evacuating a river valley while a dam is drained and inspected and repaired.
Do you really think terrorism only applies to nuclear reactors?
"Do you really think terrorism only applies to nuclear reactors?"
No. Gas pipelines too.
And there are other reasons than terrorism for destroying nuclear reactors. Plunging a region into a cold, dark hell pit is another.
My examples require very little technical expertise. Bombing a pipeline that far beneath the surface requires a lot of expertise and specialty equipment.
Perhaps you fail to see the difference.
Thanks for pointing that out.
If you thing that "cold dark hell" is bad what do you think would happen if the 3 Gorges dam failed? (Read up on it) Lots of other dams would be bad too (although nothing like the 3 Gorges dam)
Also, we protect nuclear reactors pretty heavily. If a nuclear reactor is going to be destroyed they are probably going to use a nuclear weapon to do it. Somehow I don't think the minor amount of radiation from the plant itself is going to matter.
The sun in December is a lot less in Maine than it is in Florida.
Not in California. Here there has been some realization that maybe desalination plants are needed, if only there were some way to power them.
Governments are run by incompetents and people keep electing them to run governments. Ultimately, it's the people who elect incompetent officials to run governments that they demand fix problems and make the trains run on time who are hurt by their own unrealistic expectations. Unfortunately, those of us who don't want to elect incompetent officials to run inadequate governments also get hurt.
The entire zero carbon in 25 years trope is absolutely ridiculous. It has nothing to do with climate and everything to do with control.
But…all those people who died at Three Mile Island!!!!!
Even though 25 percent of Europe's electricity and 50 percent of its low-carbon generation comes from nuclear power, Desbazeille lamented that some European commissioners still "will not even pronounce the N-word." Bilbao y León agreed: "Regulatory approvals are a huge bottleneck. We still need to figure out how to streamline regulations to enable a fast build-out."
I have a carbon neutral solution to this problem that only involves the use of rope and trees.
If you bury them afterwards, it's actually 'carbon sequestration', which is better than 'carbon neutral', from an environmentalist / climate alarmist standpoint.
Not advocating, just saying.
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